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John Mace
11-30-2006, 07:50 PM
No thread started yet? OK....


What are the chances that a Chick Alliance will get under discussion tonight? Will Becky and Sundra be tempted by Parvati and Candice to start offing the guys? They have to realize that the guys are going to beat them in the end, and that Yul probably does want to take Jonathan to the final 2. Still, I think Becky and Yul are pretty tight. Sundra has been a complete "below the radar" player, though, and sooner or later those types start realizing they have a lot of power. She has to figure that she's #4 at best in the main alliance.

I'm so glad to see Yul using the HII intelligently this time, unlike Terry "I can do it all myself" from last time. He's pretty much got a lock on the FF now. If a new alliance wants to dethrown him, they have to have a sacrificial lamb to get the HII out of play.

Lissa
11-30-2006, 09:30 PM
The "no fish for you!" thing was kind of funny. What whiny little brats!

I haven't kept up with this show as much as I have in the past, so I gotta ask: is Johnathan really that bad of a guy? Yeah, he made out like a bandit at the auction, but I didn't think he was being all that "arrogant" about it. Nor did he lose his cool when Candice was whining and insulting him during the fish incident. "Nobody likes you, anyway!" (Sheesh! How childish can you get?!) Is he really all that deserving of their animosity, or are they just jealous and resentful of him?

jayjay
11-30-2006, 09:34 PM
is Johnathan really that bad of a guy?

I don't particularly like Jonathan, but the only way that he's "that bad a guy" is the same way any person who actually plays Survivor the way it's supposed to be played is "that bad a guy". The Middle School Alliance is playing this game so terribly badly, even taking the perennial "he's not playing fair and I'm entitled to more than this" activities that show up in EVERY season in at least one or two people to almost parodic heights. Watching the MSA in comparison to Yul is like watching a trio of brats screaming to their college-age brother.

jayjay
11-30-2006, 09:35 PM
Anyone else notice that there is a delicious cruel streak deep down inside Yul? The only reason he really had to actually show them all the HII was so that Candace would know that the only thing she was going to get on Exile Island was cold, wet and hungry.

jayjay
11-30-2006, 09:37 PM
Although... (yes, 3rd post in a row....my neurons are firing randomly tonight)

The look on Adam's face when Jonathan actually told them that Yul had it and showed it to him made me wonder. What if there really is more than one HII? What if Adam has one, too?

Draelin
11-30-2006, 09:38 PM
I haven't kept up with this show as much as I have in the past, so I gotta ask: is Johnathan really that bad of a guy?
He's a jackass. But the beauty of Jonathan is that he knows he's a jackass, and makes no bones about the fact that he's a jackass. It's a strange version of integrity. Maybe you can't trust Jonathan to stick to your alliance, but you can trust him to be a jackass.

If Yul's not careful, this is going to spiral out of his control. Did you see Becky's face when Yul mentioned the possibility of going to the final two with anyone but her? It really looked like the thought hadn't occurred to her.

Which will make it funnier when it turns into a final three. I'm thinking about the past final threes. Ian was final three. Rob C. was final three. Having three people in front of the jury instead of two will destroy most players' strategies.

PastAllReason
11-30-2006, 09:49 PM
Anyone else notice that there is a delicious cruel streak deep down inside Yul? The only reason he really had to actually show them all the HII was so that Candace would know that the only thing she was going to get on Exile Island was cold, wet and hungry.

Well, he could have also done it to save Candace from going to all the effort of digging around when it wasn't going to get her anything.

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Nah, I don't really believe it either. :)

RikWriter
11-30-2006, 09:53 PM
Although... (yes, 3rd post in a row....my neurons are firing randomly tonight)

The look on Adam's face when Jonathan actually told them that Yul had it and showed it to him made me wonder. What if there really is more than one HII? What if Adam has one, too?


I doubt it. I think Adam was just realizing that Jonathan had been telling them the truth and possibly realizing how badly he fucked up by not considering the possibility. Of course, Adam, Candace and Parvati, being idiotic, spoiled brats, blame Jonathan for outplaying them rather than blaming themselves. I don't think I've despised anyone who's played this game more than I despise those three...and Nate. Nate's an incredibly hypocritical asshat.

Mama Tiger
11-30-2006, 10:05 PM
Yul has to be careful that he doesn't overplay his hand. I suspect he may sacrifice Jonathan next week just so he doesn't lose the whole jury. Or his alliance-mates -- you're right, Drae, Becky's look of shock that he would even consider taking someone else to final two was a warning sign I hope he didn't miss.

It's still a bit early to be talking about final two. (Or three.) I'm not entirely sure everyone else is quite as willing to roll over and serve up the million bucks to Yul as he thinks they are.

Jaade
11-30-2006, 10:15 PM
He's a jackass. But the beauty of Jonathan is that he knows he's a jackass, and makes no bones about the fact that he's a jackass. It's a strange version of integrity. Maybe you can't trust Jonathan to stick to your alliance, but you can trust him to be a jackass.

If Yul's not careful, this is going to spiral out of his control. Did you see Becky's face when Yul mentioned the possibility of going to the final two with anyone but her? It really looked like the thought hadn't occurred to her.

Which will make it funnier when it turns into a final three. I'm thinking about the past final threes. Ian was final three. Rob C. was final three. Having three people in front of the jury instead of two will destroy most players' strategies.

I knew someone else would mention the look on Becky's face. She really was absolutely shocked, which makes me think she is a lot more naive than I thought she was. I wouldn't have been surprised if that had flipped her, but she's too trusting and loyal. If I were her, I might have considered branching out myself at that point.

Green Bean
11-30-2006, 10:21 PM
Best line of the night (paraphrased)-- "The kiss was nice, but if it was really love, he'd have given you the immunity necklace." :D

There were so many great moments this episode. I wouldn't even know where to begin!

Lamar Mundane
11-30-2006, 10:37 PM
I knew someone else would mention the look on Becky's face. She really was absolutely shocked, which makes me think she is a lot more naive than I thought she was. I wouldn't have been surprised if that had flipped her, but she's too trusting and loyal. If I were her, I might have considered branching out myself at that point.
I think the look had more to do with her realization that "This dude is talking about who to bring to the final with him - what a prick! There's still eight of us left!"

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the scheming begin next episode about how to deal with Yul. How long is the HII good for?

Jaade
11-30-2006, 10:42 PM
I think the look had more to do with her realization that "This dude is talking about who to bring to the final with him - what a prick! There's still eight of us left!"

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the scheming begin next episode about how to deal with Yul. How long is the HII good for?

I'm pretty sure that once it's used, it's gone. If I were Becky, I'd be reconsidering my alliance with him. She's just been sitting by the sidelines, being Yul's yes-girl and it took her a very long time to realize (or for Yul to let it slip...I think that was both an accident and a mistake on his part) that she wasn't on the solid ground she thought she was on with Yul. The all-girl alliance probably wasn't a possiblity before tonight but if they had worked it, they could have easily brought Adam along for the ride and gotten rid of Jonathan, then Ozzy and Yul. It's almost like Adam, Candice and Parvati have just given up even trying to win already.

Lamar Mundane
11-30-2006, 10:49 PM
I'm pretty sure that once it's used, it's gone.
I was wondering how far into the game it can be used. Up to the Final Four?

GraceTX
11-30-2006, 10:49 PM
I don't think I've despised anyone who's played this game more than I despise those three...and Nate. Nate's an incredibly hypocritical asshat.
Agreed. And to think I thought Courtney's eye-rolling and mugging on Jury Row last season was annoying - Nate managed to not only top that but also to take it into assholish proportions.

Why was Yul thinking he may need to get rid of Jonathan so that the Raroans would vote for him at F2? Surely the better thing to do would be to take Jonathan to F2 with him! "So yeah, you said you wouldn't vote for me because you didn't like that I took Jonathan further than you. So does that mean you're going to vote for him instead then, dumbasses?"

Of course he's pretty much deprived himself of that route with his little conversation with Becky, but that would have definitely been my thoughts after Adumb and Poverty's whiny little speech.

I know it's wrong to take pleasure in other's pain, but damn I had to hold back the laughter when Becky sent Candice to EI and Yul rubbed it in that he already had the idol. The only way it could've possibly been better would've been if she'd also had to go through that huge storm that Danielle and Austin suffered through last season.

RikWriter
11-30-2006, 11:08 PM
Why was Yul thinking he may need to get rid of Jonathan so that the Raroans would vote for him at F2? Surely the better thing to do would be to take Jonathan to F2 with him! "So yeah, you said you wouldn't vote for me because you didn't like that I took Jonathan further than you. So does that mean you're going to vote for him instead then, dumbasses?"



As I understand it from spoilers I've read, he WANTS to do that, and Parvati is voted off next in a straight Pagonging attempt, but after that Adam wins immunity again and he's forced to vote Jonathan off by the rest of his alliance.

Jaade
11-30-2006, 11:34 PM
Why was Yul thinking he may need to get rid of Jonathan so that the Raroans would vote for him at F2? Surely the better thing to do would be to take Jonathan to F2 with him! "So yeah, you said you wouldn't vote for me because you didn't like that I took Jonathan further than you. So does that mean you're going to vote for him instead then, dumbasses?"


Realistically, he couldn't pull that off anyway. The jurors of Survivor are typically a LOT more forgiving of the snake they know. To get to the final two with Jonathan, Yul would have to betray his entire alliance. It could be done easily at first maybe before tonight. Convince A, C and P to vote off Ozzy maybe with Yul and Jonathan being the surprise votes. Flip Parvati and make it a three person alliance of Yul, Jonathan and Parvati. Get Candice and Adam to vote with Parvati and take out Sundra. At this point, he can plausibly get rid of Becky next without her knowing that he's the mastermind. Convince Parvati that she's the odd man out with Candice and Adam, tell her you will take her to final two. Bam, bam..they are gone, provided they don't win immunity. (of course, then you just reverse the pecking order) Then, just hope that Parvati loses in the three person challenge (provided the two person final is still in effect). That is the only way he could sit in the final two with Jonathan and not be outed for destroying his own alliance, as far as I can see.

However, voting off Candice tonight means that his alliance sees that Adam and Parvati go next and then they look to him to vote off Jonathan. Any resistance puts doubt in their mind...they were supposed to be the final four! Now he's "stuck" voting off Adam and Parvati, then Jonathan. Ozzy and Sundra just seem way too complacent with their place in all of this. I think the fact that Yul has the immunity idol is really playing havoc with any thoughts of outside strategy on their parts. Yul can win this entire game easily if he just stays the course and keeps Becky, Ozzy and Sundra happy.

as_u_wish
11-30-2006, 11:34 PM
It surprised me that no one bid aggressively against Jonathan in the food auction. They let him get the hot dogs and the pizza. What did they think the money was going to be good for? The auction lasted as long as previous ones, didn't it?

Ruffian
12-01-2006, 12:19 AM
It surprised me that no one bid aggressively against Jonathan in the food auction. They let him get the hot dogs and the pizza. What did they think the money was going to be good for? The auction lasted as long as previous ones, didn't it?
No one knew Johnathan was bidding on food. They were covred mystery items, remember? The only food item that was revealed as such prior to bidding was the ice cream maker.

After Johnathan's 2nd mystery-item-gorgefest, Sundra went nuts after the next mystery item...and got a sea cucumber. Yummy.

Kayeby
12-01-2006, 12:25 AM
I was wondering how far into the game it can be used. Up to the Final Four? From what I understand it's good through to the Final 4. So you can use it to get into the Final 3 but that's it.

Slacker
12-01-2006, 12:30 AM
Candace's tears are like nitrous oxide to me (that's laughing gas, isn't it?). I haven't laughed so hard during an Exile Island moment for a long time.

Although the howler of the night went to Parvati, when she got this grave look of disgust on her fact when Candace was sent back to Exile, then meekly went back to scrubbing her back in the tub. I'm not one to exaggerate, but that was the funniest damn thing in the history of the universe. :D

The Controvert
12-01-2006, 03:21 AM
Although... (yes, 3rd post in a row....my neurons are firing randomly tonight)

The look on Adam's face when Jonathan actually told them that Yul had it and showed it to him made me wonder. What if there really is more than one HII? What if Adam has one, too?I seriously doubt this to be true. If Adam had an immunity idol, it should have been played last week to save Nate. Although I suppose Adam could have been too stupid to play it.

The Controvert
12-01-2006, 03:35 AM
Regarding Yul taking Jonathan to final two...

Realistically, he couldn't pull that off anyway. The jurors of Survivor are typically a LOT more forgiving of the snake they know. To get to the final two with Jonathan, Yul would have to betray his entire alliance. It could be done easily at first maybe before tonight. Convince A, C and P to vote off Ozzy maybe with Yul and Jonathan being the surprise votes. Flip Parvati and make it a three person alliance of Yul, Jonathan and Parvati. Get Candice and Adam to vote with Parvati and take out Sundra. At this point, he can plausibly get rid of Becky next without her knowing that he's the mastermind. Convince Parvati that she's the odd man out with Candice and Adam, tell her you will take her to final two. Bam, bam..they are gone, provided they don't win immunity. (of course, then you just reverse the pecking order) Then, just hope that Parvati loses in the three person challenge (provided the two person final is still in effect). That is the only way he could sit in the final two with Jonathan and not be outed for destroying his own alliance, as far as I can see.

However, voting off Candice tonight means that his alliance sees that Adam and Parvati go next and then they look to him to vote off Jonathan. Any resistance puts doubt in their mind...they were supposed to be the final four! Now he's "stuck" voting off Adam and Parvati, then Jonathan. Ozzy and Sundra just seem way too complacent with their place in all of this. I think the fact that Yul has the immunity idol is really playing havoc with any thoughts of outside strategy on their parts. Yul can win this entire game easily if he just stays the course and keeps Becky, Ozzy and Sundra happy.I think your first plan just might be overthinking things. Yul does the right thing by at least appearing to entertain the notion of keeping the Raro three around. But seriously, they have to go immediately. One leaves as little to chance as possible. Breaking up the obviously tight Adam - Candice bond is imperative. Pagong all three if possible, as soon as possible.

You must not offer sinking and desperate enemies any sort of way to turn the game back around on you. Anything can happen... new rules pop up all the time. Or someone wins an immunity challenge at an inopportune time.

After that, it's an easy sell to get rid of Ozzy. Sundra and Becky see him as an enormous physical threat. If Ozzy gets immunity, then Jonathan goes. Reuse the same argument: he is a physical threat.

They're down to 4: Yul, Becky, Sundra, and either Ozzy or Jonathan. At this point, the immunity idol gets Yul to final three no matter what. If he wins the immunity challenge, he can choose to use it or not... he will most likely only save Becky with it. This is due to his sense of honor, because he originally talked to Becky. In return, I do not believe Becky will entertain notions of a new alliance with anyone.

Finally, it is imperative that Yul purposely throw all reward and immunity challenges until the final four. There is absolutely no advantage to winning them, even if it comes with the keys to a car.

I think this gives Yul his best chance to get to the final three, after which, anything can happen, even with his currently enormous advantage.

BiblioCat
12-01-2006, 07:29 AM
No thread started yet? OK....


What are the chances that a Chick Alliance will get under discussion tonight? Will Becky and Sundra be tempted by Parvati and Candice to start offing the guys?That's what I was thinking. I like Yul, but he's getting a little cocky. He's so sure he's going to the F2 - and has let others know it. I think Becky and Sundra might decide to get rid of the guys and give themselves a chance at the million.

Does Becky have blood on her shirt from the wrestling challenge, or is it paint?


Oh, and what about the required Nature Shot - The Vomiting Fish!

jayjay
12-01-2006, 08:21 AM
Oh, and what about the required Nature Shot - The Vomiting Fish!

Oh, yeah...I was definitely wondering why they thought we'd want to watch an eel throw up a squid...bleah!

rockle
12-01-2006, 08:31 AM
Oh, you guys! I believe that last night's episode of Survivor catapulted this season right up to #2 on my all-time awesomest list -- maybe even a tie for #1! (I'm not sure yet, because I love Ian so much, but we're getting close.) Here are just a few reasons why:

- Strategy. Although it isn't really hard to beat stupid people in a game like this, it's fun to watch them scramble for a strategy when we have maybe the best strategic thinker ever in the game. Yul is about six kinds of awesome, and even though his poker face needs some work, I love how he's all honest and logical about it. He's like the anti-Heidik. Imagine facing him in the final Tribal Council and trying to come up with a reason not to vote for him. Because right now, I can't. Yeah, these particular people are going to be pissed if Yul is one of the F2, but he had a strategy, he stuck to it, and he was honest about it the whole time. He even had the decency not to say, "Yeah, I'm smarter than you, so what? Suck it! Bwahahahaha!" Which I would be tempted to do with these bozos. And none of this is going to matter, because for whatever reason, Survivor Juries all get the Space Madness anyway, and come up with final questions like "My question is YOU SUCK!"

- Beautiful Bean Footage. That barfing fish was disgusting, and still beautifully filmed. And I love how that picture was a dual-purpose metaphor, for how Parvati said she was feeling, and how Parvati was making me feel. Yeah, Parvati, I know how someone can be just so icky and vile and disgusting that you want to throw up all over them.

- Schadenfreude. I am a very bad person, and I loved it when Candice got sent out to Exile Island again -- especially once Yul showed everyone the Idol. And double-especially after Parvati was all, "Yeah, looks authentic," like -- when would he have had the time to fake it? Where would he have gotten the materials, you dolt? God. And when the Aitus and Jonathan wouldn't share their food, and Candice got all pouty and "waaaah, unfair!" about it? Thing of beauty. The only thing that would have made me love Jonathan more at that moment would have been if he had called Candice "Miss Pouty-Pants" and told her to go to her room to do her sulking.

Yeah, I kind of really hate Adam and Parvati. "This game is no fun because we're gonna lose! Waaaaaah!" Oh, shut up and go take a nap until it's time for you to go home. Don't like being a puppet? Then earn your freaking keep. Because they have to know, even on a rudimentary level, that Jonathan would have been toast if they had just pretended to help out around camp, instead of sitting all alone at the Mean Girls' table at lunch, all glare-y and frowny-faced. (Plus: Psst! Candice and Parvati! Frowning causes wrinkles!)

Also, because nobody has really mentioned it yet: I'm not quite sure how, but I think Ozzy is working on something major. We didn't see much of him this episode, and even last week, when Yul made the big reveal, he was pretty quiet about everything. And yet he has that delicious evil streak that we saw when he said that there was no "ethical" obligation to feed the Children. Watch out for that one. If he is working behind the scenes, doing damage control for Yul while Yul takes all the heat, he could end up sneaking away with that million.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 09:23 AM
Best line of the night (paraphrased)-- "The kiss was nice, but if it was really love, he'd have given you the immunity necklace." :D
Yeah, but the truth is there's another side to that: And if Candice loved Adam, she wouldn't take it. He'd be booted out sure as anything.

What a great show. I loved the Candice meltdown. And Yul almost lost his cool for the first time when Jonathan started blabbing. I don't know if they'll get rid of him next time (he does catch a lot of fish), but I wouldn't blame them if they did-- he's just not fun to have a round camp. And I'll give dumb-ass Adam some credit-- I never thought he'd win that brain teaser IC.

Yul really showed his chops when he gave Becky money to buy the power card. It turned out to be not so great, but the last person who bought the power card ended up winning the $1M. That showed her that he's got her back. And I think he'd be fine taking her to the F2. Who would vote for Becky-- she's been mostly coasting the whole time.

I agree with Rockle, though, that Ozzy might have something up his sleeve. Still, those 4 are very tight, and maybe they should just hold together for F4 and then figure out what to do then. You can overthink this game, and lose by being too clever by half.

Great episode, and this is turning out to be my favorite season. Tune in next week to see Parvati move in on Adam now that Candice is out of the picture!

Draelin
12-01-2006, 09:36 AM
And I'll give dumb-ass Adam some credit-- I never thought he'd win that brain teaser IC.
Which, of course, he did just after I had finished a nice long discussion about how Adam doesn't have the brains Og gave a meerkat.

I agree with Rockle, though, that Ozzy might have something up his sleeve.
It's a strong possibility. Just because we haven't seen Ozzy's mad manipulation skillz doesn't mean he has none.

Doctor Who
12-01-2006, 09:37 AM
Who would vote for Becky-- she's been mostly coasting the whole time.
Don't forget the Rob/Amber lovefest that was Survivor All-Stars. She coasted the entire time under Boston Rob's wing --- and won.

Ethilrist
12-01-2006, 09:44 AM
Were the Raroarians really going to treat Yul's crew any differently if they had kept the upper hand? I think not.

Nate getting bent all out of shape because of Johnathan voting him off, when Nate has been salivating at the idea of voting Johnathan off, even before he joined their tribe.

The look on Nathan and Parvati's face when Yul said he had the idol: "Durr?"

I'm wondering if they're not going to point out to the survivors that the final vote might be at final 3 rather than 2. They could go to final four, vote somebody off, and then Jeff will be all, "Okay, final Tribal council tonight. See ya there." :eek: :eek: :eek:

re: Becky realizing she might not make final two: It probably didn't help when Johnathan bet against her at the reward challenge.

Has anybody mentioned that if there are two HII's, Adam might have one? That would explain why he wasn't willing to consider that Yul had one. It would also explain Probst's line about "if he really loved you, he would have given you the idol", as in, the hidden one...

Johnathan was fantastic at the reward challenge. Completely brutal. I loved it.

After the immunity challenge, I loved how Yul had to backpedal and downplay the situation when Johnathan came across him talking to the Raroarians: "We're just, talking about... they're... doing what they should be doing..."

I'm guessing Candice cleans up real good for the jury... looking forward to next week's TC.

Diddledog
12-01-2006, 09:52 AM
Why did everyone, including his alliance members, get all bent out of shape about Johnathan eating the food at auction? He just played it right: when Survivor has an auction for food or possibly food, you bid fast and you bid high. You don't sit there all timid and shy or you end up going home with nothing but an empty belly.

Supposedly they were mad at him for eating all that food and then being cocky about it. But I didn't see cocky. I saw a guy making innocent small talk about what they had just participated in, and belching. These Survivor folks are always on such short fuses that if anything good happens to you, the only way to avoid scathing criticism is to apologize profusely and act like you did something wrong. Johnathan didn't do that, so they jumped on him for being selfish and "showing his true colors."

I was thinking, "no, he's not being a jerk. You were stupid for not bidding $500 on that unseen item and getting your own damn pepperoni pizza. Now you're hungry and mad and trying to blame it on him."

phungi
12-01-2006, 09:54 AM
30 posts and no-one reflecting on Parvati lowering her bikini-clad torso into a hot tub? Unfortunately, my mental Rolodex does not have a reliable pause button... sigh...

jayjay
12-01-2006, 10:06 AM
30 posts and no-one reflecting on Parvati lowering her bikini-clad torso into a hot tub? Unfortunately, my mental Rolodex does not have a reliable pause button... sigh...

I wish mine had a fast-forward...

gonzoron
12-01-2006, 10:12 AM
Yul is the best player since Rob C., possibly ever. He's a lock for final four, and then just needs to win an immunity or two. (The Idol is good to GET you to the final four, not to use AT the final four, I'm pretty sure that's how it's been in the past.) The only immunity challenge Yul might want to win is at final five, so he can give the necklace to Becky, and keep it out of Johnathan's hands (or Ozzy's if he has to dump him early.)
The only tough part should be final four, if it's the 4 Aitu's. Yul will have to bust ass to make sure Ozzy doesn't win immunity, because that's likely the only chance the others have to oust Yul. Yul is jury gold at this point.

Had to go back and slow-mo the vomiting eel. That was disgustingly awesome.

Hilarious to see Candace going off on Jonathan. How dare she talk about betrayal when SHE STARTED THE MUTINY! He followed HER because she told him they were tight. And then dropped him like a bad habit once she had her himbo to latch to. I wish Jonathan had thrown that back at her. I really do.

Normally I don't like the old "we're in charge, no food for you" gambit, but here it was completely justified. Won't be sad to see Adam go. Or Parvati, and her bumbling attempts at flirting and strategizing, but at least she's easy on the eyes.

BTW, how cool is it that the big alliance in charge at this point has at least one member of each of the original "racial" tribes? So much for racially motivated voting. Go Team Melting Pot!

Ethilrist
12-01-2006, 10:15 AM
Why did everyone, including his alliance members, get all bent out of shape about Johnathan eating the food at auction? He just played it right: when Survivor has an auction for food or possibly food, you bid fast and you bid high. You don't sit there all timid and shy or you end up going home with nothing but an empty belly.
Never underestimate the ability of Survivor players to not know a single goddamn thing about how the game is played.

The Controvert
12-01-2006, 10:30 AM
Supposedly they were mad at him for eating all that food and then being cocky about it. Heh, or maybe they were mad Jonathan spilled more food than they got, haha.

DrDeth
12-01-2006, 10:30 AM
I have to admit Jonathan has done the very best ever at the auction. He won three damn things and the rest just sat there like frogs on a log. Haven't they ever seen the damn show before? Bid fast, big high, and get at least one thing. Jonathan got THREE things, which is amazing. Yul is the smartest dude we have seen for a while, and Jonathan is right up there.

The Immature Three were mind boggling. I mean, when they were accussed of sitting around and doing no work, they didn't even rebut that! :eek:

Lissa
12-01-2006, 10:32 AM
Never underestimate the ability of Survivor players to not know a single goddamn thing about how the game is played.

[Galaxy Quest] Did you guys ever watch the show?[/Galaxy Quest]

Mama Tiger
12-01-2006, 10:33 AM
Has anybody mentioned that if there are two HII's, Adam might have one? That would explain why he wasn't willing to consider that Yul had one. It would also explain Probst's line about "if he really loved you, he would have given you the idol", as in, the hidden one...

I thought he said, "If it was really love, he would have given you the immunity necklace." Has anybody listened to it again to verify what exactly he said?

Zakalwe
12-01-2006, 10:47 AM
(The Idol is good to GET you to the final four, not to use AT the final four, I'm pretty sure that's how it's been in the past.)That is how it was last season, but this time the instructions were clear that it can be used up to and *including* the Final 4 TC.

Slacker
12-01-2006, 11:29 AM
I thought he said, "If it was really love, he would have given you the immunity necklace." Has anybody listened to it again to verify what exactly he said?
I'm not 100% sure what Jeff said, but he was obviously talking about the individual immunity idol hanging around Adam's next, not some secret second idol. Adam won it in the challenge, and was asked before the vote if he was giving it to anyone, which he declined.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 11:36 AM
I think the reason people got pissed at Jonathan wasn't so much that he was bragging about the food, but he was just so loud and obnoxious about it-- spilling stuff and burping all over the place and just being a pig in general. He's an arogant asshole, and I wouldn't want to have to hang around with him.

As to what to do next, I think they have to get rid of Adam if he doesn't win immunity. Put up with Jonathan for at least one more cycle because they don't want to get to a situation where Adam wins immunity when there are only 5 people left. After last night, I think Adam is the biggest threat to win immunity. Parvati is a good swimmer, but that's about it and Jonathan hasn't been much good at all. So, the order is: Adam, Jonathan, Parvati.

Do the rules allow for people to gang up on someone in the IICs? If so, Yul and Ozzy should tackle Adam and let one of the chicks, or even Jonathan, win immunity so they can get rid of Adam quickly. And I hope the next reward challenge is a "break the other guy's tile" challenge-- that might rock the boat a little in the main alliance, especially between Yul and Ozzy.

Can't wait until next week-- this is great!

RikWriter
12-01-2006, 11:53 AM
I think the reason people got pissed at Jonathan wasn't so much that he was bragging about the food, but he was just so loud and obnoxious about it-- spilling stuff and burping all over the place and just being a pig in general. He's an arogant asshole, and I wouldn't want to have to hang around with him.


I can only go by what I've seen, but he doesn't seem to be either arrogant or an asshole. He's a bit abrasive, but no more so than most people on the show and certainly less than Adam, Nate and Parvati.

Diddledog
12-01-2006, 12:01 PM
I can only go by what I've seen, but he doesn't seem to be either arrogant or an asshole. He's a bit abrasive, but no more so than most people on the show and certainly less than Adam, Nate and Parvati.

Agree. He's alluded to the age difference being the real real reason for the clash, and I think he's right. Adam, Nate, Candace, Parvati et al still have that teenager-like smarminess and unearned smugness: Anyone who dares suggest that they do something or expects anything of them is just being an asshole. They act like children, he acts like an adult who's not going to tiptoe around them, and so he's automatically characterized as a jerk.

I was surprised to see the others jump on that bandwagon too, though. I'd much rather hang out with Johnathan than those young jerks.

Ethilrist
12-01-2006, 12:04 PM
Johnathan was told last week that Yul wanted to take him to F2 because he knew Johnathan couldn't win the final vote. He was told to his face before this episode that he was a liar, a snake, untrustworthy, and all that. He knows people don't like his defecting from Aitu, and he knows they don't like his going back to Yul's alliance. Candice dropped him like a dead fish after he jumped from Raro. That people just stated for the first time in front of Jeff that they don't like him does not make it news. Also, people in Raro were calling him a traitor for leaving Aitu. Not one word did they say about Candice being a traitor for doing exactly the same thing.

As far as his behavior--he spilled maybe a quarter of that beer. He ate a hot dog, some fries, an entire pizza, and drank a beer, and they showed him burping once. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

gonzoron
12-01-2006, 12:11 PM
That is how it was last season, but this time the instructions were clear that it can be used up to and *including* the Final 4 TC. I don't remember hearing that. i've been digging through online recaps and can't find the quote, but I'm pretty sure Jeff said something similar to last season, that it can "get you through to the final 4." can anyone confirm?

Zakalwe
12-01-2006, 12:23 PM
I don't remember hearing that. i've been digging through online recaps and can't find the quote, but I'm pretty sure Jeff said something similar to last season, that it can "get you through to the final 4." can anyone confirm?
From TWOP (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/articles/content/a12442/index-10.html):
They're much clearer this year about the idol being good up to and including the F4 tribal council, and there are also more specific instructions about the fact that you can give it to someone else, but you have to do it before you leave the beach for tribal council, and you can't transfer it while you're there.

gonzoron
12-01-2006, 12:36 PM
From TWOP (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/articles/content/a12442/index-10.html):
wow... thanks. I guess I didn;t catch all the instructions when he found it. Then Yul's pretty much guaranteed a win now, I think.

Ethilrist
12-01-2006, 12:39 PM
Also, you can't steal it. If they don't have video of somebody handing it to somebody else, it didn't happen.

Dinsdale
12-01-2006, 12:53 PM
Have to chime in and say I don't think I'd have any problems hanging with Jonathan either. Seems like he is probably a bit of a loudmouth self-promoter, but that shouldn't be much of a surprise since you pretty much need to be somewhat of an attention whore to wanna go on Survivor. But he seems pretty upfront to me. At least he has something to say and he pulls his fair share. Doesn't strike me as particularly underhanded.

Nor does it seem he is pursuing some secret agenda. Instead, he is looking out for himself - another characteristic that should not be surprising in a Survivor contestant.

This 45-year old gets a kick out of seeing clueless, lazy youngsters getting pawned (is that the correct hip terminology?) on Survivor.

And yeah - Yul is an incredible stud on countless levels.

rockle
12-01-2006, 01:12 PM
This 45-year old gets a kick out of seeing clueless, lazy youngsters getting pawned (is that the correct hip terminology?) on Survivor.

And yeah - Yul is an incredible stud on countless levels.
I believe the current phraseology is "pwnt" (without the quotes).

And I'm going to add that I also love Jonathan, just a little bit. Not in the same way that I love Ozzy, but if I ran into Jonathan in a bar somewhere, I'd totally buy him a beer or twelve. I love that he just flatly refuses to put up with anybody's shit. I love that he doesn't seem to care if Yul calls him a snake, so long as Yul says it sans whine-age. I love that he ate that hot dog and that pizza and that beer with such gusto, and then still had money left to get toothpaste. I love that he's willing to pimp his vote out for a little bit of conversation that doesn't involve giggling and that Gwen-Stefani-style eyelid-batting tic-thing. I kind of think I love him like my dad, a little bit, and I wish it weren't against the rules for players to hit each other, because I would love more than anything in the world for Jonathan to give Parvati and Adam a couple of dozen much-needed dopeslaps.

Of course, Ozzy is still my favorite, because the only thing cooler than a curly-headed moppet, or a monkey, is a curly-headed moppet who is part monkey.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 01:15 PM
I can only go by what I've seen, but he doesn't seem to be either arrogant or an asshole. He's a bit abrasive, but no more so than most people on the show and certainly less than Adam, Nate and Parvati.
Just look at the way he broke the cardinal rule of Survivor-- don't boss people around. He's arogant because he thinks that all he has to do is say something and everyone will see the ultimate logic of his ideas. You have to be persuasive in this game. Sometimes you have to just go along to get along, but you never put yourself in the position of being the angry parent. Yes, the young crew was lazy and undisciplined, but there are better ways to deal with that.

I particularly noticed the "one burp" because he never made any attempt to watch out where the burp was aimed or apologize for it. You don't just burp in someone's face and then walk away.

jsc1953
12-01-2006, 01:22 PM
I thought he said, "If it was really love, he would have given you the immunity necklace." Has anybody listened to it again to verify what exactly he said?

That's exactly what Jeff said. To which I said..."OH SNAP!!!". Jeff has a mean streak. I like that.

I'm all for public displays of affection, but the Candice - Adam kiss made me want to gag.

Yul rocks. I can't think of any good reason to reveal the fact that he has the II...but he must have a good reason, cuz he rocks. I loved how when Candice was ranting about Jonathan and what Yul said blahblahblah....Candice said Yul called him "selfish". Yul corrected her -- "actually, I said self-interested". Subtle difference, but important; and he did it so cooly. I like to think that I would be like that, if I were stuck on an island with whiny pre-schoolers.

Speaking of the II -- notice the look on Nate's face when it was revealed that Yul had it? Caught Nate by surprise, a bit. He had no clue. In general, too.

Dinsdale
12-01-2006, 01:29 PM
Thanks rockle. I'm jiggy wit dat! (One of my secret joys is embarrassing the hell outta my teens with my out-of-step nods to cool-age.) ;)

And you really summed it up about J. He's got no problem with someone else having problems with him - as long as they're not just whining.

I was surprised Y volunteered the II. Don't see what advantage it gave him, while I would think any uncertainty would be to his favor. Seeing the thing in person might be what it took to really spur others into action against him. But like jsc said, it must have been for a good reason because the man certainly rocks.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 01:36 PM
Yul rocks. I can't think of any good reason to reveal the fact that he has the II...but he must have a good reason, cuz he rocks. I loved how when Candice was ranting about Jonathan and what Yul said blahblahblah....Candice said Yul called him "selfish". Yul corrected her -- "actually, I said self-interested". Subtle difference, but important; and he did it so cooly. I like to think that I would be like that, if I were stuck on an island with whiny pre-schoolers.
That was very slick of Yul to rephrase it-- he actully did say "selfish".

I didn't see the reason for revealing the II, but so many people know about already that I think it does no harm to get it out there. Blabbermouth Jonathan mentioned it to everyone earlier.

The Controvert
12-01-2006, 01:53 PM
I was surprised Y volunteered the II. Don't see what advantage it gave him, while I would think any uncertainty would be to his favor.Well, the best use of the II is to not have to use it at all. The threat of him having it is enough. Therefore, it is better to come out and tell people openly. Plus, it gives him bonus honor points in the eyes of the potential jury members.

Uncertainty is what causes people to conspire against you, thinking they have a shot and forcing you to play the II prematurely.

muldoonthief
12-01-2006, 02:47 PM
Actually, 8 is a good time to reveal you have the Individual Immunity idol. As The Controvert said, the best use of it is not to use it at all.

Say there are 9 people left. Everyone knows you have the idol. 7 of them decide they want to get rid of the idol. 4 of them vote against you, 3 of them against the other lonely sap who didn't go to the meeting. Your vote and other lonely sap's votes don't matter at that point - Jeff tells you you're going home, you pull out the idol and lose it, other sap goes home. This is ironclad - there's no uncertainty for the alliance against you, apart from trusting that everyone will do their part.

At 7 left, that doesn't work anymore. 5 decide to get rid of the idol. 3 vote for you, 2 for the sap, but you and the sap vote for one of the 5. You pull out the idol, and it's now a tie between the sap and one of the 5, and those 2 are left trying to set each other on fire or whatever. That's a lot of uncertainty for the 5 to deal with.

At 8 left, it depends on the rules. 6 decide to get rid of the idol. They can do 4 for you, 2 for the sap, and risk that you and the sap vote together against one of them, leading to the above scenario. Or, they can do 3 for you, 3 for the sap. In that case, it depends on whether you need to pull out the idol then, or if you can do the tiebreaker challenge. If they let you do that, and you win, you still have the idol and we're down to the 7 person tribe. If you lose, you can still pull out the idol and send the sap home.

So 9 or more left is the only time a group can band together and get rid of the idol with absolutely no risk to any of themselves. Once you're past that point, uncertainty creeps in, and it's better to let everyone know that you have the idol, so no opposing alliance can get rid of the idol without risking one of their own.

rockle, did you notice Jeff called Ozzy "Dolphin boy" when he bid for the ice cream?

jayjay
12-01-2006, 02:49 PM
You pull out the idol, and it's now a tie between the sap and one of the 5, and those 2 are left trying to set each other on fire or whatever.

Damn. I'd so pay to watch that tiebreaker...

rockle
12-01-2006, 03:34 PM
rockle, did you notice Jeff called Ozzy "Dolphin boy" when he bid for the ice cream?I did not. But, shameful as it is for me to admit this, I did notice that Ozzy managed to get soft serve on his crotch. And I'd be lying if I said that my brain did not immediately "go there." Happily.

You pull out the idol, and it's now a tie between the sap and one of the 5, and those 2 are left trying to set each other on fire or whatever.
Damn. I'd so pay to watch that tiebreaker...You and me both.

Ellis Dee
12-01-2006, 05:00 PM
What was the name of that Showtime show with Sherilyn Fenn where Jonathan played the neighbor guy? It's been bugging me since last night.

I think Yul had several serious strategic missteps recently. Revealing the idol just to rub it in Candice's face (nothing for you in exile) was foolish, as was his discussion of going to final two with somebody other than the person he was talking to. Worst of all was that he clearly took on a leadership role, which is never a good move. Three strikes and you're out.

Lotta hate for the "Mean Girls Table" in this thread. Highschool flashbacks? While they were certainly being lazy, I couldn't completely fault the pretty people for wanting to spend time with Candice. How much time has she even been in camp to hang out with? Four trips to exile island in the last how many days?

Don't let that challenge fool you, Adam is clearly a box of rocks. It had almost nothing to do with smarts other than basic arithmetic. It was all about memory. (I didn't remember a single number they were asking for.) Very impressive memory, though.

The pretty people (including Nate based on his reaction from the jury) being unable to even entertain the idea that Yul had the immunity idol may be the most impressive display of stubborn stupidity I've ever seen on television. How fucking dumb are you people? It was so bad that even after Yul publicly admitted it and agreed to get it out of his bag, they still didn't believe it. And then when he produced it, Parvati seemed to need to friggin' touch the thing before she'd even consider the possibility. Ye gods, that was unbelievable.

At this point, I'd like to see the two wallflowers go next. They haven't added anything to the season at all. A final five with Jonathan, Yul, Ozzy, Adam and Parvati would be awesome. The silent duo missed their chance to form an all-girl alliance with Candice and Parvati last week, which would have been fantastic. Sadly, it now looks like a straight up Pagonging will take us to the final four. Oh well, the drama has been potent this season, so at least it'll probably be interesting.

Loving all the Sue Hawk callbacks to snakes and rats. They may not know how to play, but they sure know the Survivor insults well enough. heh.

Final thought: Now that Candice is gone, who is the next to go to exile? Jonathan?

DeVena
12-01-2006, 05:07 PM
What was the name of that Showtime show with Sherilyn Fenn where Jonathan played the neighbor guy? It's been bugging me since last night.


Rude Awakening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rude_Awakening_%28TV_series%29)

jsc1953
12-01-2006, 05:18 PM
While they were certainly being lazy, I couldn't completely fault the pretty people for wanting to spend time with Candice. How much time has she even been in camp to hang out with? Four trips to exile island in the last how many days?

That's sweet of you to think so...but I ain't buyin it. Lots of opportunities to chat & gossip & catchup & bond while you're scaling fish, or hauling water, or building a fire together. There were plenty of things they could've been doing besides playing snugglebunnies with Adam.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 05:24 PM
Final thought: Now that Candice is gone, who is the next to go to exile? Jonathan?
Adam, of course.

RikWriter
12-01-2006, 05:26 PM
Just look at the way he broke the cardinal rule of Survivor-- don't boss people around. He's arogant because he thinks that all he has to do is say something and everyone will see the ultimate logic of his ideas. You have to be persuasive in this game. Sometimes you have to just go along to get along, but you never put yourself in the position of being the angry parent. Yes, the young crew was lazy and undisciplined, but there are better ways to deal with that.


I don't believe he bossed anyone around. I think the worthless pieces of shit TOOK it like that, but that's not how it came across when he said it. And I think he tried to go along for a long time. Much longer than I would have.


I particularly noticed the "one burp" because he never made any attempt to watch out where the burp was aimed or apologize for it. You don't just burp in someone's face and then walk away.


He didn't burp in anyone's face and they are out in the wild and have been there for a month. When I was in the infantry and we'd been out in the field for a month, no one bothered to say "excuse me" after burping, trust me.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 05:57 PM
I don't believe he bossed anyone around. I think the worthless pieces of shit TOOK it like that, but that's not how it came across when he said it. And I think he tried to go along for a long time. Much longer than I would have.
Well, look where it got him. I'm not really sure what you're point is. He pissed people off and arguing that they shouldn't have been pissed off is besides the point. You have to get along with your tribemates in Survivor and you especially have to get along with your alliance-mates after the merge.

The object of the game is to win $1M, not to be "right" on any given issue, whether that's food or fire or water.

He didn't burp in anyone's face and they are out in the wild and have been there for a month. When I was in the infantry and we'd been out in the field for a month, no one bothered to say "excuse me" after burping, trust me.
Survivor isn't the infantry, and Becky (or one of the other girls) specifically recoiled from the stench of Jonathan's burp. That's just one of the many little things that up to "irriatating to have around camp" that equates to Jonathan, and every single person on that island agrees about that.

Anyway, I guess this isn't a GD thread, so if you think Jonathan isn't obnoxious, fine. But as far as the game goes, all that matters is what other people perceive, and there can be no doubt that they all perceive him to be obnoxious.

JSexton
12-01-2006, 06:13 PM
When Yul handed the idol to Parvati to examine, the correct response is not "It looks authentic." The correct response is: "Thanks for the idol, sucker!"

Also, I think Becky realized something else during Yul's plotting: Even if Yul is planning on taking Becky to the final two, he was plotting on a way to not have the jury be mad at him and not give him the votes. By default, then, he's plotting on how to not have people vote for Becky. In front of her. And she just realized that.

John Mace
12-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Also, I think Becky realized something else during Yul's plotting: Even if Yul is planning on taking Becky to the final two, he was plotting on a way to not have the jury be mad at him and not give him the votes. By default, then, he's plotting on how to not have people vote for Becky. In front of her. And she just realized that.
Well, she's pretty stupid then. What you said was that she suddenly realized Yul was playing to win. Playing to win... Imagine that! :) I wonder how well all of us armchair Survivor types would be at keeping in mind that this is a game, and you're supposed to try to win.

Roadfood
12-01-2006, 07:19 PM
When Yul handed the idol to Parvati to examine, the correct response is not "It looks authentic." The correct response is: "Thanks for the idol, sucker!"Yul is anything but dumb. Nor is he naive or overly-trusting. I believe it showed clearly that he held onto the strap the whole time.

Spoke
12-01-2006, 07:54 PM
Well, she's pretty stupid then. What you said was that she suddenly realized Yul was playing to win. Playing to win... Imagine that! :) I wonder how well all of us armchair Survivor types would be at keeping in mind that this is a game, and you're supposed to try to win.

I also notice a look of dawning realization on Becky's face. Or maybe it was a look of disbelief at Yul's crassness in discussing his final vote strategy in front of her. Yul was thinking out loud, and I don't think it was in the forefront of his mind as he was saying it that the final vote was the point at which his and Becky's interests diverged (and that maybe he shouldn't be talking to her about how he was going to win over the jury).

JSexton
12-01-2006, 11:09 PM
Well, she's pretty stupid then. What you said was that she suddenly realized Yul was playing to win. Playing to win... Imagine that! :) I wonder how well all of us armchair Survivor types would be at keeping in mind that this is a game, and you're supposed to try to win.
Well, yeah, but I don't think she'd been planning past Final Four yet. That's my take on it, anyway. Lord, there's just so much that we never get to see.
Yul is anything but dumb. Nor is he naive or overly-trusting. I believe it showed clearly that he held onto the strap the whole time.
I don't have Tivo, so I can't check. But I remember thinking "Don't let go of that, Yul...Oh, crap. I hope she gives that back."

Anyone with Tivo care to check?

DrDeth
12-02-2006, 01:43 AM
From TWOP (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/articles/content/a12442/index-10.html):


Nice cite, but TWOP gets things wrong, too.

eenerms
12-02-2006, 02:47 AM
Did I hear Jeff call Ozzie" Dolphin Boy"? I swear they read these boards!

BiblioCat
12-02-2006, 07:58 AM
Did I hear Jeff call Ozzie" Dolphin Boy"? I swear they read these boards!Yes, he did. And I thought, "Oooh, rockle's gonna be mad! That's Ian's nickname."

Little Nemo
12-02-2006, 08:01 AM
Jonathan is continuing to show he can play a good game on every aspect except the social interaction - which admittedly (as he himself seems to realize) is a huge part of this game. He played the auction itself prefectly but then screwd up when he got back to camp. When Candice was making her stupid remarks about him being a betrayer he should have pointed out that she was the one who jumped first and had betrayed more people than he did. And he should have said something simular at Tribal Council to point out that Candice, Adam, and Parvati had all voted with him to betray three of the four people on the jury. The only sense I can see about Jonathan's play this week is if he's intentionally making himself unpopular to increase his chances of being carried to second place.

Yul also made a misstep this week, as others have already written. He's gotten so used to using Becky as his sounding board that he forgot the difference between strategizing to advance his alliance and strategizing to advance himself.

singular1
12-02-2006, 09:27 AM
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]This 45-year old gets a kick out of seeing clueless, lazy youngsters getting pawned (is that the correct hip terminology?) on Survivor.[/QUOTE=Dinsdale]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[QUOTE=rockle]I believe the current phraseology is "pwnt" (without the quotes).[/QUOTE=rockle]

[nitpick] Close, but no pizza & beer. The phrase is pwned, which comes from a typo at a gaming site many years ago. Gaming teen dweebs were hooting about "owning" someone at a particular move, mistyped it as "pwned", and then did a lot of that ROFLMAO OMG'ing that ensues, and somehow managed to turn the typo into one of the Cool Kidz phrases. I'm sure Adumb, CannedAss and Poverty were sure they would pwn this game until last week's final vote. Their faces at Tribal Council, along with Nate's, are right up there with Coby's. And this 53-year-old is lovin' it!

And while I'm confessing to age-resistant technology knowledge, I just have to recommend to any other aging Doper the beauty of HiDef: we just got it, and I feel like I'm watching Survivor for the first time! All the rolling eyes and pouting are crystal clear, all the six-packs are stunningly defined, the moptop is delish and unruly, and Rockle, you'd plotz when you see the eel barf up that squid! I did!

I predict that the level of stupidity of the questions at Final Tribal will overtake that of Judd's.

singular1
12-02-2006, 09:29 AM
And while I'm confessing to age-resistant technology knowledge,


except for the part where I screwed up the quote coding..... :smack: :o :rolleyes:

interface2x
12-02-2006, 11:57 AM
When Yul handed the idol to Parvati to examine, the correct response is not "It looks authentic." The correct response is: "Thanks for the idol, sucker!"

That would have been hilarious.

"Looks authentic."

"Yep, now give me back the idol."

"What idol?"

"The one I just gave you."

"I don't have an idol."

Johnny L.A.
12-02-2006, 02:26 PM
Loving all the Sue Hawk callbacks to snakes and rats.
At first I thought Adam was calling Jonathan a fast-moving rodent. It sounded as if he said 'darty rat'.

PunditLisa
12-02-2006, 03:03 PM
I, too, was surprised when Yul revealed that he had the idol. Of course, I was glad because it made Candice's trip to Exile Island even more depressing, but I think that it did nothing to advance's Yul's position.

I cannot believe how stupid Candice was. First she mutinied from her team, knowing full well that she was alienating her former tribemates. She had to know a merger was pending and should have stuck it out until then. I picture her as a sorority girl who just cannot function without a support group around.

And then she turned on Yul by telling Jonathan everything Yul had said earlier simply because she was mad that they were eating fish without her. Why piss off the most powerful guy in the game, especially when you know you already have a huge target on your back?

I also think it's telling that Adam did not intervene in the argument at all and try to defend or defuse Candice while she was sinking her ship by yelling at them for not sharing the food that she neither caught, prepared or cooked.

And that kiss from Adam just made me go, "Ew." I doubt Jonathan shared his toothbrush.

Spoke
12-02-2006, 04:12 PM
I, too, was surprised when Yul revealed that he had the idol. Of course, I was glad because it made Candice's trip to Exile Island even more depressing, but I think that it did nothing to advance's Yul's position.

Disagree. By revealing he had the idol, Yul saved Candace a lot of useless digging around in the sand. If Yul makes it to the final two, that might be enough to win Candace's vote.

Jaade
12-02-2006, 07:26 PM
Disagree. By revealing he had the idol, Yul saved Candace a lot of useless digging around in the sand. If Yul makes it to the final two, that might be enough to win Candace's vote.

She's been there 4(?) times. I don't ever remember them showing her doing much idol searching like they did with Jonathan went. I'm not sure she was actually seeking it at all. I remember they showed her looking at the book once but that's all I recall.

Unless Yul makes some huge mistake, I predict he sails into the final two/three. I must say I'm a bit disappointed about the way everything has turned out because it's almost like the season is already over. Usually the merge really shakes things up, and I feel like the two tribes haven't really done any of that this time around.

rockle
12-02-2006, 09:05 PM
Close, but no pizza & beer. The phrase is pwned ...
Not according the people my husband plays Counterstrike* with. Apparently, "pwned" is soooo five minutes ago -- "pwnt" is what the kids are saying now, I guess.

* I think it's Counterstrike. One of those online shoot-'em-up games.

Johnny L.A.
12-02-2006, 09:09 PM
Groovy.

rockle
12-02-2006, 09:10 PM
Not according the people my husband plays Counterstrike* with. Apparently, "pwned" is soooo five minutes ago -- "pwnt" is what the kids are saying now, I guess.
I forgot the :D . I'm not arguing, just reporting what I hear from my sources. And ... can I just tell you know much I love that you used "rockle" and "plotz" in the same sentence? I don't know why, but I do. I probably would, too. I do a lot of things in Yiddish, because almost everything sounds better that way.

PunditLisa
12-03-2006, 09:20 AM
Disagree. By revealing he had the idol, Yul saved Candace a lot of useless digging around in the sand. If Yul makes it to the final two, that might be enough to win Candace's vote.

He only revealed that he had it when Jeff brought up that Exile Island DID offer the possibility of finding the Immunity Idol. Candice said that she thought she knew where it was and Yul said, "Let me end the suspense. I have it." Now you can read that as him being a gentleman by saving her some useless digging, but *I* read it as Yul extinguishing the only glimmer of hope that Candice had.

And, remember, when Jeff asked why he revealed that he had it, Yul gave a big spiel about strategy. He had every opportunity to say that he was trying to be a gentleman, and thus winning points with Candice, but he said nothing to her.

And then the next day he deliberately withheld food from Candice.

No. I really don't think Yul was trying to be gentleman. I think he was trying to stick it to her for jumping ship. Which surprises me, both because he seems like a nice guy AND because he's usually so rational and I think that it was an irrational thing to do.

Lady Venom
12-03-2006, 09:39 AM
When I heard Candice say "I'm pretty sure I know where it is" I thought she was saying that she knew Yul had it. Just the tone in her voice.

The Controvert
12-03-2006, 10:56 AM
...He had every opportunity to say that he was trying to be a gentleman, and thus winning points with Candice, but he said nothing to her.

And then the next day he deliberately withheld food from Candice.

No. I really don't think Yul was trying to be gentleman. I think he was trying to stick it to her for jumping ship. Which surprises me, both because he seems like a nice guy AND because he's usually so rational and I think that it was an irrational thing to do.I don't see Yul doing anything blatantly vengeful. It was Jonathan who raised the point of withholding food. Yul's rationale could be that he has to side with his current alliance, which Candice is not a part of. Being a "gentleman" and offering food to Candice could be seen as disloyal by his alliance, insulting and disrespectful to Jonathan who caught the food, and being ruled by lust or hormones by a now jealous Becky. Turning friends into enemies is irrational.

Johnny L.A.
12-03-2006, 10:57 AM
Turning friends into enemies is irrational.
Unless you're on the other side. ;)

Not that I think the Brats can think that way.

Zakalwe
12-03-2006, 02:21 PM
Nice cite, but TWOP gets things wrong, too.Are you saying that they got this wrong? If not, what was the point of saying this?

want2know
12-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Just my $0.02:

Am I the only one who doesn't see Yul as some kind of Survivor god? I can't stand him! That smug monotone, that "I'm-smarter-than-all-of-you" attitude...my Og, he basically told Becky that she wasn't going to F2 with him, like he has the divine right to be there and decide who stands next to him! Someone needs to take this smug little putz down a peg, and the way to do it is to vote him off next TC, get the idol out of his hands, and then take him out for real at the TC after that. Maybe this would be the "big move" everybody's predicting for Ozzy, yes?

Of course, that probably won't happen because A) his alliance is so dazzled by his brilliance that they figure there's room on his coattails for all of them, and B) the other dumbasses are too intimidated by him to even consider suggesting the above to his minions.

Jonathan is no worse a personality than some of the others who have prospered in this game, and I think he's playing this game for all it's worth. I'd like to see him end up in F2, but the person he needs to latch onto to get there is Ozzy, not Yul.

Even before he won immunity, I started to get an inkling that Adam has a halfway decent chance at winning the game. Maybe a Jonathan-Ozzy-Adam alliance? I'd include Parvati, but, IMHO, she's been in this game about 27 days too long already!

And re Jeff's "if it was love..." comment: when he said that, Mrs. Know just exclaimed, "JEFF! ", then turned to me and said, "That was an ugly thing to say!". I just smiled and said "I love it! He truly is the evil puppet master!" Just too bad Candice went home so early; would have loved to see the repercussions caused by the comment.

Roadfood
12-03-2006, 08:28 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't see Yul as some kind of Survivor god? I can't stand him! That smug monotone, that "I'm-smarter-than-all-of-you" attitude...my Og, he basically told Becky that she wasn't going to F2 with him, like he has the divine right to be there and decide who stands next to him!I always find it really interesting how different people can see the same things and feel completely different. I don't see Yul as smug AT ALL. I don't hear his monotone as an affectation so much as just being even-toned. That's either his natural way of speaking (likely), or he's just making an effort not to get into a tone of voice that pisses people off (which happens a lot in this game). I've watched every season of Survivor, and there are maybe three people out of all the players that I would actively LIKE to have as friends, and Yul is at the top of that list. I don't see him as a "god" but simply as an extremely effective player of the Survivor game. He knows the game, he knows what he's doing, he adapts quickly to changes, he plans rather than schemes, he will almost certainly get to the final 2 or 3 having pissed off very few players and done very, very little backstabbing. So many other players (in all seasons) are either hopelessly naive, overly social/friendly/trusting, overly scheming and backstabbing, overly confident, blind, or just plain stupid. Yul is none of the above.

Most of the winners of Survivor have done so either because they got lucky, or they ended up being the lesser of two evils. Very, VERY few have truly deserved to win because they really outplayed and outwitted. When/if Yul wins, he will deserve every penny.

Someone needs to take this smug little putz down a peg, and the way to do it is to vote him off next TC, get the idol out of his hands, and then take him out for real at the TC after that. Maybe this would be the "big move" everybody's predicting for Ozzy, yes?See post #57. Unless they can get all six to go after Yul -- which would require that someone agree to be the sacrificial lamb and voluntarily go home -- it's just too late to get rid of him knowing that he has the idol. I think it's very clear that Yul made the same logical analysis that muldoonthief did, and that that's why he revealed that he had the idol.

Yul is extremely intelligent and analytical. it was not a misstep that he revealed he had the idol, nor did he do it to save Candace from fruitlessly digging for it, nor did he do it to rub it into Candace's face. He did it because it was the strategically right thing to do at that point in the game. Using the same logic as muldoonthief, he WANTED everyone to know he had it. Even if no one else is able to come up with that analysis as a thought experiment, the fruitlessness of trying to get rid of Yul would surely dawn on them as they tried to formulate how to do the voting: "Ok, the three of us will vote for Yul, and the two of you vote for Becky." "Uh, but then after Yul brings out the idl, it'll be a 2-2 tie. Which one of us wants to take that risk?" "Not me." "Not me." . . . say all the sefish kids.

And a thought just ocurred to me: An upcoming possible measure of Yul's real smalts in this game will be if he deliberately doesn't try his hardest at the car challenge. I don't believe in curses and Yul probably doesn't either, but if I found myself in that position, I'd reason, "Why take the chance? When I win, I'll buy whatever car I want." And besides, if you're sitting in the final two WITH the car, you increase the likelihood (however small) that someone will use that as a reason to vote against you.

rockle
12-03-2006, 09:28 PM
And a thought just ocurred to me: An upcoming possible measure of Yul's real smalts in this game will be if he deliberately doesn't try his hardest at the car challenge. I don't believe in curses and Yul probably doesn't either, but if I found myself in that position, I'd reason, "Why take the chance? When I win, I'll buy whatever car I want." And besides, if you're sitting in the final two WITH the car, you increase the likelihood (however small) that someone will use that as a reason to vote against you.I've been thinking the same thing. If Yul wins the whole shebang, he'd get a car anyway, and I'm pretty sure Yul is savvy to that. Whether or not the "Car Curse" actually exists was previously debated (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369225&page=2&highlight=statistical+anomaly), but whether it does or not, Yul seems like enough of a Survivor fan (and astute enough, just in general) to know when to hold back. Why tempt fate? He also seems to be very aware of when it's in his best interest to play hard, and when it isn't. Reward challenges? Not so much. Immunity? Definitely.

DrDeth
12-04-2006, 01:31 AM
Are you saying that they got this wrong? If not, what was the point of saying this?

I am saying TWOP knows no more than any of us with an obsessive use of TIVO might glean. In other words, citing them is about like citing us here at the SDMB. And, By that- I don't mean like citing Cecil or one of the SDSAB, just another Member that seems to watch the show very carefully. Now, cite CBS, and you're in business.

Don't get me wrong- they do watch the show very carefully, and if they say "at the 32.5 minute mark into the 9/21epi, Peachy (gawd how I hate that nickname) says "blah blah blah" then I believe them. But that link takes me to a recap where the "recapper" does not word for word quote Jeff or CBS, and thus the recapper knows no more than any of us with a tape of the shows do. In other words- maybe she's right, but maybe she's wrong. She's no more an expert on the show than any real rabid viewer is. No special knowledge, just watching carefully. And they often get little hates or loves on about the various characters of the show, and can get very biased, which colors their accounts. So unless the recapper quotes literally word for word, then it's nice but no more accurate than say John Mace, PunditLisa, Little Nemo or several other diehard fans here.

I am not saying they are wrong, just that TWOP is no more a valid cite than a post here.

Walkabout
12-04-2006, 08:10 AM
Actually, it would be really easy to organize a coup to get the HII away from Yul. Next week it's pretty safe to assume that either Adam or Parvati will be voted off. Once it's decided which one will go, Becky, Sundra, and Ozzy just have to either make sure that sacrificial person votes for Yul or pull in the leftover Raro to vote against Yul. Leave Yul and Jonathan to vote for the sacrificial Raro. That will force Yul to use the HII, then the sacrificial Raro goes home. The next tribal council there won't be a HII to worry about.

singular1
12-04-2006, 08:43 AM
And they often get little hates or loves on about the various characters of the show, and can get very biased, which colors their accounts. So unless the recapper quotes literally word for word, then it's nice but no more accurate than say John Mace, PunditLisa, Little Nemo or several other diehard fans here.

I am not saying they are wrong, just that TWOP is no more a valid cite than a post here.

Thank you for pointing this out! I used to visit that site quite a bit, but the attitude you have just described really soured me on them - especially Miss Ali, whom I have grown to hate with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns.

Not according the people my husband plays Counterstrike* with. Apparently, "pwned" is soooo five minutes ago -- "pwnt" is what the kids are saying now, I guess.

Ah, I see. That's what happens when an Alter kaker tries to be :cool:. ;)

Slacker
12-04-2006, 09:15 AM
Ah, I see. That's what happens when an Alter kaker tries to be :cool:. ;)
U got p0wn3d!!!1

Ethilrist
12-04-2006, 09:33 AM
This 45-year old gets a kick out of seeing clueless, lazy youngsters getting pawned (is that the correct hip terminology?) on Survivor.
p0wned.

muldoonthief
12-04-2006, 11:04 AM
Actually, it would be really easy to organize a coup to get the HII away from Yul. Next week it's pretty safe to assume that either Adam or Parvati will be voted off. Once it's decided which one will go, Becky, Sundra, and Ozzy just have to either make sure that sacrificial person votes for Yul or pull in the leftover Raro to vote against Yul. Leave Yul and Jonathan to vote for the sacrificial Raro. That will force Yul to use the HII, then the sacrificial Raro goes home. The next tribal council there won't be a HII to worry about.

Unless one of the "sacrificial" ones has a sudden rush of brains (admittedly a long shot for Adam), and realizes a door has just opened for them. They go running to Yul & Jonathan with details of the plan. Yul would immediately dump Ozzy, Becky & Sundra and make a new alliance with Adam & Parvati & Jonathan.

Sure, Adam and Parvati loathe Jonathan, but it's a big risk for Ozzy Becky & Sundra to count on that loathing just to get rid of the idol.

Walkabout
12-04-2006, 11:34 AM
Unless one of the "sacrificial" ones has a sudden rush of brains (admittedly a long shot for Adam), and realizes a door has just opened for them. They go running to Yul & Jonathan with details of the plan. Yul would immediately dump Ozzy, Becky & Sundra and make a new alliance with Adam & Parvati & Jonathan.

Sure, Adam and Parvati loathe Jonathan, but it's a big risk for Ozzy Becky & Sundra to count on that loathing just to get rid of the idol.

They don't necessarily even need those two, as long as they can figure out who they are voting for. Let Yul and Jonathan vote for Adam, Adam and Parvati vote for Jonathan, and the rest vote for Yul. That takes out the idol and leaves Adam and Jonathan trying to make fire to save themselves.

As long as they know who Yul and Jonathan are voting for and make sure Adam and Parvati vote for someone else, they can use their three votes to smoke out the idol.

The Controvert
12-04-2006, 11:50 AM
They don't necessarily even need those two, as long as they can figure out who they are voting for. Let Yul and Jonathan vote for Adam, Adam and Parvati vote for Jonathan, and the rest vote for Yul. That takes out the idol and leaves Adam and Jonathan trying to make fire to save themselves.

As long as they know who Yul and Jonathan are voting for and make sure Adam and Parvati vote for someone else, they can use their three votes to smoke out the idol.I think the problem with this plan is that it is too risky for everybody. Jonathan switched because he took a 100% chance to stay longer on the island over a 50% chance of leaving. Say you are Ozzy or Sundra. Do you risk your own neck to trust Becky with your plan? I don't think Becky will hatch such a plan, so at some point you must approach Becky. You know she is tight with Yul... how confident are you that you can truly turn her? If she only pretends to turn, she runs off to tell Yul and secretly votes for Adam. The idol stays with Yul, Becky has solidified her alliance, and you are shown to be rats. Next week, the idol can sink you.

As soon as you mention this plan to anyone, you potentially made enemies out of both Jonathan and Yul. (possibly Becky, too)

Zakalwe
12-04-2006, 12:53 PM
But that link takes me to a recap where the "recapper" does not word for word quote Jeff or CBS, and thus the recapper knows no more than any of us with a tape of the shows do. The hell?

She (the recapper) says "The immunity tool comes with instructions" and she then proceeds to summzarize those instructions. She also includes two phrases within quotes to show that she is in fact "word for word quot[ing] ...CBS".

This all started with gonzoron stating a factual error (ie, the II is good up to, but not including F4). I corrected him/her and then, when questioned again, went out and dug up a cite from a recap made at the time the episode in question aired and generally reliable - by your own admission. This was necessary because the "official" website - to put it politely - sucks ass.

Look, you may not like TWOP and I won't deny that when describing characters or motivation, the recappers certainly have their biases (something they revel in by the way - they have never claimed to be objective), but unless *you* can provide a cite showing where TWOP got a *fact* wrong in a recap then lay the hell off or please provide a list of sites you consider reliable enough for providing information about a TV reality game show.

Roadfood
12-04-2006, 02:15 PM
I think the problem with this plan is that it is too risky for everybody. Jonathan switched because he took a 100% chance to stay longer on the island over a 50% chance of leaving. Say you are Ozzy or Sundra. Do you risk your own neck to trust Becky with your plan? I don't think Becky will hatch such a plan, so at some point you must approach Becky. You know she is tight with Yul... how confident are you that you can truly turn her? If she only pretends to turn, she runs off to tell Yul and secretly votes for Adam. The idol stays with Yul, Becky has solidified her alliance, and you are shown to be rats. Next week, the idol can sink you.

As soon as you mention this plan to anyone, you potentially made enemies out of both Jonathan and Yul. (possibly Becky, too)This is the point I was making, i.e. that at this point in the game, any attempt to get rid of Yul -- knowing that he has the hidden idol -- is RISKY. Sure, it could be done, but not as a sure thing the way it could be done when there were more people. I still believe that Yul did the analysis and deliberately revealed that he had the idol in order to reduce the chances that anyone would try to vote him out. He knows that most of the others are not the brightest bulbs, and I think it's very reasonable to count on them being able to see the risk, but at the same time NOT be able (or willing) to form any kind of plan that would run that risk.

BiblioCat
12-04-2006, 02:30 PM
I still believe that Yul did the analysis and deliberately revealed that he had the idol in order to reduce the chances that anyone would try to vote him out. He knows that most of the others are not the brightest bulbs...As I mentioned in last week's thead, Yul might be thinking that since they aren't the brightest bulbs, they may have forgotten that they can still vote for Yul, and force him to use the Immunity Idol, and then it's gone. Then they can vote him off at the next TC.
The way they (Adam, Candice and Parvati) were talking, they seem to think it's not worth voting for Yul, since he has the Idol.

muldoonthief
12-04-2006, 02:31 PM
The point I was making in my original post was that at some point, it makes more sense to reveal that you have the idol than to keep it a secret. At 9 or more (which only happened right at the merge), 7 of the 9 can take it away from you with no risk to themselves. In that case, I think you're better off keeping it secret, and just taking the risk that maybe they'll try to vote you out anyway. Especially since an intelligent 7 absolutely should take it away from you, since it'll only be more troublesome to get rid of you later.

At 8 or 7, depending on the tiebreaker & hidden idol rules, there's no way a group can take it away from you with no risk to themselves. In that case, it can/does make sense to reveal it so it can't be accidently taken away from you. Yes, you still risk an alliance rising to take out the idol, but they can't do it without risk to one of their own.

DrDeth
12-04-2006, 09:51 PM
The hell?

She (the recapper) says "The immunity tool comes with instructions" and she then proceeds to summzarize those instructions. She also includes two phrases within quotes to show that she is in fact "word for word quot[ing] ...CBS". ...
please provide a list of sites you consider reliable enough for providing information about a TV reality game show.

Indeed, and where she was, that was fine.

Reliable? CBS.

Lockseer
12-04-2006, 10:07 PM
If I was Parvati, I think I'd take a stab at trying to convince Ozzy and Sundra that it's in their best interest to force Yul to use the idol, and make the playing field a little more level.

At this point, it's outlived it's usefulness for Yul's friends. Their group now has the numbers, and Yul would be an idiot to forego the safety of its possession by handing it off to another player prior to tribal council...you can only use the Hidden Immunity Idol if you have it on you at the time you're voted out (meaning Yul can't save Ozzy...Ozzy has to save Ozzy by having the idol on him at the time).

So...Parvati goes to Sundra and Ozzy, explaining that she knows Adam and her are the next to go, but unless they force Yul to play the idol now, he'll have that advantage until the end of the game. The proposal? Adam, Parvati, Ozzy and Sundra vote for Yul...Yul, Jenny, Jonathan vote for whoever they want (most likely Adam). Yul gets the votes, has to use the idol to save himself, and Adam goes home. Then, they can pick of Parvati and Jonathan next.

This 1) shows Ozzy and Sundra that even though she is "out of the running," she would like to see them have a chance to win and 2) creates a rift in that group, making the opportunity ripe for her or Jonathan to be swing votes at the Final Five.

rockle
12-05-2006, 08:12 AM
If I was Parvati, I think I'd take a stab at trying to convince Ozzy and Sundra that it's in their best interest to force Yul to use the idol, and make the playing field a little more level.

At this point, it's outlived it's usefulness for Yul's friends. Their group now has the numbers, and Yul would be an idiot to forego the safety of its possession by handing it off to another player prior to tribal council...you can only use the Hidden Immunity Idol if you have it on you at the time you're voted out (meaning Yul can't save Ozzy...Ozzy has to save Ozzy by having the idol on him at the time).

So...Parvati goes to Sundra and Ozzy, explaining that she knows Adam and her are the next to go, but unless they force Yul to play the idol now, he'll have that advantage until the end of the game. The proposal? Adam, Parvati, Ozzy and Sundra vote for Yul...Yul, Jenny, Jonathan vote for whoever they want (most likely Adam). Yul gets the votes, has to use the idol to save himself, and Adam goes home. Then, they can pick of Parvati and Jonathan next.

This 1) shows Ozzy and Sundra that even though she is "out of the running," she would like to see them have a chance to win and 2) creates a rift in that group, making the opportunity ripe for her or Jonathan to be swing votes at the Final Five.
This would be a good possibility if (1) Parvati had shown any inclination towards this kind on critical thinking, which she really hasn't so far (her entire strategy so far appears to be made up of flirting and whining); and also if (2) Ozzy didn't already think he had a chance to beat Yul in Immunity Challenges, which he already knows he does (albeit only at two challenges in). It would not behoove Ozzy -- and it fact I think it would be stupid of him -- to abandon his alliance now. Because as long as Yul is around, the target is off Ozzy's back.

I also don't think that anything Parvati said would carry any weight with Ozzy anyway, as long as Parvati continues to slack off in camp. Remember that Ozzy deliberately threw a challenge early in the game to get rid of a tribemate he thought was useless.

Ethilrist
12-05-2006, 09:34 AM
So...Parvati goes to Sundra and Ozzy
See, I couldn't get past the part where Parvati uses some form of strategy beyond "sucking up to the big jock types." She may have the right stuff to make this work, but I don't see it yet.

Slacker
12-05-2006, 10:05 AM
See, I couldn't get past the part where Parvati uses some form of strategy beyond "sucking up to the big jock types." She may have the right stuff to make this work, but I don't see it yet.
Ditto. The idea of Parvati (or Parvateeth, as I've seen her called on TWOP) strategizing effectively strikes me as pretty unlikely. She's not even good at flirting (despite her assurances of the contrary). What was that sorry attempt at flirting with Nate she pulled when she first met him? Something like, "So, you wear pants, huh?"

PunditLisa
12-05-2006, 10:29 AM
BTW, I forgot to mention this earlier, but did anyone else think it was odd that none of the Aitus made it past the first round of the Immunity Challenge? I wonder if they deliberately held back, knowing that it wasn't critical for any of them to win. If Adam won, they'd vote of Candice. If Candice won, they'd vote off Adam.

Not only was it unimportant to them who won, but I think that neither Yul nor Ozzy wants to keep hitting the ball out of the park knowing that once the rest of the Raros are voted off, things will turn ugly very quickly.

If Sundra and Becky weren't so honorable, I'd think it was in their best interest to form an alliance with Jonathan and Pavrati/Adam to vote off Yul or Ozzy next time. Yul and Ozzy might be their statistically best chance to make it to the Final 3, but I don't think they have a shot at winning the million bucks against either of them. If they were smart, they'd realize that the ONLY people they have a shot against is: a) each other and b) the universally loathed Jonathan.

Lockseer
12-05-2006, 10:48 AM
See, I couldn't get past the part where Parvati uses some form of strategy beyond "sucking up to the big jock types." She may have the right stuff to make this work, but I don't see it yet.

Ah, yes...this was less a "here's what I see happening" and more of a "if she suddenly grew a brain and wanted to extricate herself from this, here's what she might want to consider."

Jonathan could also use this strategy, but he doesn't seem to want to screw over his new alliance...yet. Regardless, just wanted to make the point that...soon...some of Yul's tribemates might want to figure a way to get that idol out of his hands. It'll pretty much guarantee him a final three spot, and if he makes it to the final two, I can't see him not winning (Ozzy and J are disliked by too many, I feel, and Sundra and Becky will probably get the "riding coattails" accusation).

rockle
12-05-2006, 10:50 AM
BTW, I forgot to mention this earlier, but did anyone else think it was odd that none of the Aitus made it past the first round of the Immunity Challenge? I wonder if they deliberately held back, knowing that it wasn't critical for any of them to win. If Adam won, they'd vote of Candice. If Candice won, they'd vote off Adam.

Not only was it unimportant to them who won, but I think that neither Yul nor Ozzy wants to keep hitting the ball out of the park knowing that once the rest of the Raros are voted off, things will turn ugly very quickly.
I was thinking the same thing. I have a tendency to overthink things, but it looks and sounds an awful lot like Yul and Ozzy are playing some kind of mutant game of "Chicken" to counter-act the "My question is YOU SUCK" jury types.