Goddammit, we do not need more smilies!

[Lord Ashtar]

Not to pick on the OP of this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=398338), but it seems that every few weeks we get an ATMB thread asking for more smilies. There's always someone who wants animated ones (probably the same dumbasses who want avatars) and of course the constant request for the Pukey smilie.

I'll admit that I like to use a few of them every once and a while. The ;) is useful if you're making a joke and just want to make that extra clear, :) and :D are kind of traditional and not going away so I'll deal with those, and the :rolleyes: works really well here at the SDMB, particularly in GD. But for Christ's sake, we don't need any more than that. In fact, I was thrilled when they got rid of the Wally and the Jewish guy, not because I hated them any more than I hate the others, but because I hate smilies on principle.

Let me address the Pukey smilie specifically, since that comes up every single time. It would be the most abused smilie on this board. It would pop up a million times in every Bush-bashing thread, and people would start TMI threads just so they could use it. You don't need it. You could just type :BARF: and it would have the same effect, which would be to piss me off.

Cue a whole bunch of :BARF:'s followed by a bunch of ;) ;) ;) in the first few responses to this thread.

Learn to express yourself with words. It'll come in handy out in the real world. Besides, everyone loves to talk about how we're all so smart here. If that's the case, we should be able to get by without using any smilies at all.

That is all.

[Uvula Donor]

Besides, everyone loves to talk about how we're all so smart here.
Browse the threads and you'll find it's mostly talk.

[Turek]

Learn to express yourself with words. It'll come in handy out in the real world. Besides, everyone loves to talk about how we're all so smart here. If that's the case, we should be able to get by without using any smilies at all.

And let's not EVEN get started talking about adverbs!!



:)

[Cluricaun]

Think of how many times that discussion/argument has come up, and think about the total number of smileys available on the board and I think you'll see a negative trend overall. I really don't think we're going to be getting additional ones any time soon.

[Giles]

I don't even known how to spell smilie/smiley (or its plural smilies/smileys), so I certainly don't need any more of them.

<:)~

[Giles]

<:)~
And that came out wrong too: I meant:

<:)~

[betenoir]

Agreed. At the Far Right Christian site I lurk on they have about a milliions smilies (and most other sites, that, along with avatares, and sig lins that are a page long).

The ones on the "Christian" site that get used are usually an animated burning head of anger, and pukey. Nice folks over there.

That said though, well, I think we communicate differently depending on how we're doing it. Face to face speech is different than written speech. When the phone came along they came up with new things (like "hello"). For what ever reason communication on the internet is closer to the telephone. To speech. Just worked out that way. So we put in emotional images to make up for lack of body language, or intonation of voice.

I dunno, I think we have just the right number. How are we going to get along without dubious?

But no, no more, and NO ANIMATION!

(Note lack of smilies in this post.)

[JimSox5]

I'll say it: I miss Happy Orthodox Jewish Man. He may not have been terribly useful, but dammit, he was my favorite.

[BMalion]

:) :rolleyes: :cool:
:p :dubious: ;)
:smack: :D :confused:
:o :eek: :(
:mad:


This post has been smilie'd by the Smiler.

[AHunter3]

We've only added two in the semi-recent era: :smack: and :dubious:

Adding smilies as good as that at a rate of every two years, while culling out some of the less appropriate ones, is not the same as turning the board into this (http://z11.invisionfree.com/weffriddles/index.php?act=legends&CODE=emoticons&s=).

I'd still like a wry (http://www.hinduonnet.com/gallery/0260/026003.jpg) emoticon... the ASCII smilie :z was traditionally used in email and text-only message boards. It would take some of the burden off :rolleyes: for expressions of attitude less than fully contemptuous and/or implicating self as well as others in culpability, etc.

I admit I harbor no great enthusiasm for :_pukey_: though.

[Dervorin]

I'd still like a wry (http://www.hinduonnet.com/gallery/0260/026003.jpg) emoticon... the ASCII smilie :z was traditionally used in email and text-only message boards. It would take some of the burden off :rolleyes: for expressions of attitude less than fully contemptuous and/or implicating self as well as others in culpability, etc.

Nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, but I snorted with laughter when I saw where that link went. For the uninitiated, that's Saurav Ganguly, ex-captain of the Indian cricket team and current whipping-boy, it seems.

[Kalhoun]

I'll say it: I miss Happy Orthodox Jewish Man. He may not have been terribly useful, but dammit, he was my favorite.
Why did we get rid of him? I don't use it either, but we used to talk sometimes. He was my friend!

[Tastes of Chocolate]

I rarely use smilies, and don't feel any kind of need for new ones. I wouldn't cry if a few were added, but I would be seriously pissed if animated ones were added. I've never seen a really good need for them. As for a pukey smiley, please no. I really don't need to see that every time I open a thread.

[Shagnasty]

You only say that because you forgot our Winter of Missed Content when we all fled far away in a virtual ark. Remember smashy? That little guy just cracked me up. He would just take any argument and crush it with his little hammer. I know that lots of people were devastated at his demise when this place was rebuilt and we got to move back in. God I miss him.

[Lord Ashtar]

Check my join date, Shagnasty. I missed the Winter of Missed Content by thiiiiiis much.

[Otto]

I heartily endorse the concept behind the OP and would take it a step further and banish all smilies.

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

Oh, smilies. At first glance I thought it said similies. That being said, though, [B]do we need more similies?

"His finger, weathered and rough from years on the ranch, danced in and out of his nose like a slimy ballerina."[I]

Ugh, we definitely don't need THAT one, anyway...

[gazpacho]

Adding smilies as good as that at a rate of every two years, while culling out some of the less appropriate ones, is not the same as turning the board into this (http://z11.invisionfree.com/weffriddles/index.php?act=legends&CODE=emoticons&s=).
We really need the bloody chain saw one in your link.

[Scissorjack]

I don't even known how to spell smilie/smiley (or its plural smilies/smileys), so I certainly don't need any more of them.

<:)~

Directing traffic smiley? Invisible violin smiley? Help me out here.

[Giles]

Directing traffic smiley? Invisible violin smiley? Help me out here.
I gave it as intended in the next message
<:)~
A clown (or dunce)'s hat, and a tongue sticking out (or wispy beard).

(The problem is that if you have ":" and ")" next to each other, this board automaticaly substitutes :) -- I put some invisible code between to stop the automatic substitution)

[Mangetout]

I'd be happy enough if all the smilies went away forever. I have been known to use them, but I wouldn't miss them.

I'd be happier still if we could post images here - the ability to include diagrams and pictures within the flow of test would be very useful to many people on this board, I think.
The possibility of abuse could (conceivably) be overcome by permitting members to hotlink only those images that were stored in one specific web folder, over which only they had content control. I bet that isn't a built in feature of vB though, so I can only dream it.

[AHunter3]

Oh, smilies. At first glance I thought it said similies.

Hey! That's my line!

[Wakinyan]

Agreed, OP. The only smilie I ever had any use for is ;-), and strangely, I managed to write quite a few letters and e-mails and other kinds of messages for years without knowing that it existed.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

I want the rant guy! And the head-banging guy. I like the little animated ones. Couldn't figure out why this board uses Kermit instead of the usual tongue-stuck-out and a yawn instead of the regular embarrassed emoticon. I'd trade the wierd colours for a bunny anyday :D

I think it's brilliant that people came up with ways to interject emotional context into posts; it saves misunderstandings because words alone don't necessarily convey the whole thought. Mind you, I see nobody objecting to the fake UBB code, which I also think is quite clever.

[Tristan]

"His finger, weathered and rough from years on the ranch, danced in and out of his nose like a slimy ballerina."




:barf:

:D

[Patty O'Furniture]

I totally agree here... we could use a few more smilies.

I doubt we'd see a net total increase in the number of smilies per post. Rather, we'd see more appropriate use of smilies. We'd see the rolleyes smiley once or twice and a finger-drumming smiley (useful when waiting for a cite) two or three times and a suspicious smiley (when the cite offered is questionable) two or three times. Without a wider assortment of smilies, we'd have what we have now - the same thread with everybody using rolleyes eight or ten times for everything.

I have no problem with a pukey. We could have rules that disallow puking in GQ and GD, since it's essentially a form of opinionated editorializing.

[BrainGlutton]

Goddammit, we do not need more smilies!

Yes we do, asshole! (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310495)

[hunts in vain for "eat shit and die in agony, you worthless piece of shit!" smiley]

[MaxTheVool]

I heartily endorse the concept behind the OP and would take it a step further and banish all smilies.

I just don't get this attitude. If you don't want to use smilies, don't use them. If other people do, because (for instance) maybe they'd rather be a little over-cautious to make sure their remarks-in-jest are properly interpreted as remarks-in-jest, then who are you to judge them?

[fisha]

Smilies represent the lowest common denominator.

[AHunter3]

I kind of, sort of do get the "no freaking smilies" attitude.

I like the concept of smilies but I'd be OK with just using ASCII text smilies, which served the same purpose, didn't require complex Administrator and TechGod interventions to implement new ones, and didn't distract from the sense of being in a text medium.

:) or :-) = smile
:D or :-D = grin
:( or :-( - frown
>:-( = scowl
:p = sticking tongue out
:z = wry amusement
:8-O = shock
:-{) = moustached smile
etc

But if we're going to have any that get interpreted by board software as "Smilies" (graphical pix representing what the ASCII strings used to represent by themselves), then yes I'd like to see some of the existing ones edited and I'd like to see a few more added. And NO I, too, do not want freaking animated smilies. Please. I'm OK with the stationary ones but I'm amenable to going back to ASCII. Nothing should ever blink on a SDMB page.

[furt]

I think it's brilliant that people came up with ways to interject emotional context into posts; it saves misunderstandings because words alone don't necessarily convey the whole thought.Yes, they do. If fact they convey far, far, FAR more than a picture does, provided one knows how to use them.

[Yookeroo]

I vote for more smilies. And if there's a puking smiley, it needs to be animated.

[bbs2k]

I agree with the OP, there does need to be more smilies.




:)

[MaxTheVool]

I hate hate HATE the pretentious and snobbish "oh, words can convey so much, the beauty of the English language is of such exquisite blah blah blah only an imbecile would sink blah blah blah lowest common denominator blah blah blah" attitude.

Posts on something like the SDMB have two characteristics which make smilies very useful:
(1) Your posts are usually quick things making a quick point, not essays that you've read and reread and rewritten and triplechecked
(2) You don't know who all is going to be reading them, and they don't know you

Suppose, for instance, that esteemed poster MattMcl posted an OP about having a crappy day and some minorly bad things happening to him. I might be tempted to respond by saying "Ahh, it's just God punishing you for being gay :)". Now, I'm not claiming that's the height of wit or anything approaching it, but it's the kind of vaguley camaraderie-ish statement that makes the SDMB feel like a community, and not just an impersonal medium for debate. But I would be VERY hesitant to post that without the smilie, because of the chance, however small, that it wasn't obvious that I was kidding. Of course, I could use my massive writing skills to, using only pure words and not vulgar symbols, make it totally crystal clear that I was kidding. But, honestly, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Smilies are useful. They increase clarity communication. People who get all huffy about them are snobs.


Now, overuse of smilies should be punishable by preemptive banning. But overuse and use are two totally different things, with smilies like with most things.

[Lord Ashtar]

Yes we do, asshole! (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310495)

[hunts in vain for "eat shit and die in agony, you worthless piece of shit!" smiley]
No we don't, you fucking douchebag.

[Eonwe]

Smilies represent the lowest common denominator.

I don't remember learning that in algebra.

:confused:

[Q.E.D.]

Yes, they do. If fact they convey far, far, FAR more than a picture does, provided one knows how to use them.
I'm sorry, but this is patently incorrect. Pictures cross the boundaries of language and culture, something words do only with great difficulty, if at all. Pictures convey a great deal of information at a glance, with minimal possibility of misunderstanding or misinterpretation; again, this is not always the case with words, no matter how carefully chosen. I've seen more scuffles around here caused by the absence of a single smiley than have ever been caused by their overuse. Words alone are simply inadequate to convey the subtleties of emotion we are capable of as human beings. We are expressive creatures, with a body language as complex as any written tongue; a well-placed smiley can speak volumes.

[Derleth]

Learn to express yourself with words. It'll come in handy out in the real world. Besides, everyone loves to talk about how we're all so smart here. If that's the case, we should be able to get by without using any smilies at all.Because tone of voice has no place in communication. Neither do gestures nor facial expression nor posture. And nobody ever misreads anyone, and any possible misreading could be cured if the author were just more careful. Good writers are never misread, so it follows that there is only one way to interpret any work worth the time it takes to read it.

[Bosstone]

Damn, Q.E.D. beat me to it. For a lot of people, conversing on a message board is like conversing with a group of people face to face. In real-time conversation, you have body language and facial expressions to help convey meaning. Emoticons fill in for those facial expressions online and allow the poster to write in a more conversational tone.

For those people who think the text should contain everything necessary, even good writers don't always rely solely on dialogue to get their meaning across in novels and the like; characters are usually described as having expressions or tones of voice. In the case of one poster who knows nothing about another poster, it's nearly impossible to tell sarcasm or jesting from earnestness. I admit, it is possible to write such that there is no ambiguity, but that takes a hell of a skill to do so naturally and I think most people don't really have the time to sit there and tweak a gentle jab so that it doesn't wind up sounding like a cold insult.

Besides, if we didn't have smilies, you'd just wind up seeing more :smiles: or :gd&r: tags. That's just moving the concept from graphics to text and doesn't really solve anything.

Because tone of voice has no place in communication.Bullshit.

[Bosstone]

Bullshit....I find I've been wooshed. Carry on. Ahem.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Yes, they do. If fact they convey far, far, FAR more than a picture does, provided one knows how to use them.

Not the case. Words have never been sufficient. They are barely adequate. Try to use words to express the happiest you've ever felt - or the saddest. Attempt to describe the beauty of sun on snow using vowels and consonants and nouns and verbs.

The word 'ineffable' wouldn't exist if one could actually convey all sensations, thoughts, impressions, etc. using words.

[Guinastasia]

Yes, they do. If fact they convey far, far, FAR more than a picture does, provided one knows how to use them.


If that were true, we'd never, ever, have any misunderstandings. Ever.

[Yookeroo]

I hate hate HATE the pretentious and snobbish "oh, words can convey so much, the beauty of the English language is of such exquisite blah blah blah only an imbecile would sink blah blah blah lowest common denominator blah blah blah" attitude.

Posts on something like the SDMB have two characteristics which make smilies very useful:
(1) Your posts are usually quick things making a quick point, not essays that you've read and reread and rewritten and triplechecked
(2) You don't know who all is going to be reading them, and they don't know you

Suppose, for instance, that esteemed poster MattMcl posted an OP about having a crappy day and some minorly bad things happening to him. I might be tempted to respond by saying "Ahh, it's just God punishing you for being gay :)". Now, I'm not claiming that's the height of wit or anything approaching it, but it's the kind of vaguley camaraderie-ish statement that makes the SDMB feel like a community, and not just an impersonal medium for debate. But I would be VERY hesitant to post that without the smilie, because of the chance, however small, that it wasn't obvious that I was kidding. Of course, I could use my massive writing skills to, using only pure words and not vulgar symbols, make it totally crystal clear that I was kidding. But, honestly, it wouldn't be worth the effort.


Smilies are useful. They increase clarity communication. People who get all huffy about them are snobs.


Now, overuse of smilies should be punishable by preemptive banning. But overuse and use are two totally different things, with smilies like with most things.

I agree with all of this. They're just another communication tool. That people want fewer tools in their toolbox is just silly. Sure, smiley abuse happens, but people abuse things like cApItAlIzAtIoN too. Should we eliminate that?

[Nancarrow]

The word 'ineffable' wouldn't exist if one could actually convey all sensations, thoughts, impressions, etc. using words.

Nothing is ineffable, you just have to try harder to eff it.


(Apologies to Douglas Adams)

[Fear Itself]

Sure, smiley abuse happens, but people abuse things like cApItAlIzAtIoN too. Should we eliminate that?yes.

[susan]

His finger, weathered and rough from years on the ranch, danced in and out of his nose like a slimy ballerina."And yet I'd take this simile over a smiley any day.

[CanvasShoes]

Oh I dunno, I kind of liked the wall one, and the chainsaw one looked as if it would have some good uses!

[scottkris]

I think most people don't really have the time to sit there and tweak a gentle jab so that it doesn't wind up sounding like a cold insult.


Tough. If you don't have the time to think out your reponse, then don't respond.

I could spend $15 to post to this board and proofread my post. Why can't others?

[lissener]

Please, no new smilies. I hate smilies. The only time I ever use them is when I anticipate that the person I'm speaking too is going to assume that the lack of a smiley is significant in and of itself. I fucking hate that! Too many people here consider the lack of a smiley as proof that you're not joking, no matter how clearly your words indicate otherwise. I hate feeling forced in such a case to use a fucking smiley; I feel like someone's holding a 45 to my temple screaming: DOT YOUR I's WITH LITTLE HEARTS YOU FUCKING FUCK! The only time I wish we had a different smiley is in that exact situation; I wish there were a Deadpan Smiley--like the standard yellow guy, but with a flat line for a mouth. Maybe that would be a "what?" smiley. If we could trade a "what?" smiley for all these retarded smilies, I'd be happy. Although I do like the blowjob smiley; he makes me horny.

[Taber]

...I find I've been wooshed. Carry on. Ahem.

If only he had used a smilie....

[Lord Ashtar]

I'm sorry, but this is patently incorrect. Pictures cross the boundaries of language and culture, something words do only with great difficulty, if at all. Pictures convey a great deal of information at a glance, with minimal possibility of misunderstanding or misinterpretation; again, this is not always the case with words, no matter how carefully chosen. I've seen more scuffles around here caused by the absence of a single smiley than have ever been caused by their overuse. Words alone are simply inadequate to convey the subtleties of emotion we are capable of as human beings. We are expressive creatures, with a body language as complex as any written tongue; a well-placed smiley can speak volumes.
Which is why I think the smilies we have are more than sufficient. We do not need a pukey smilie, a banging-my-head-against-the-wall smilie, or a chainsaw smilie. And we certainly do not need animated smilies of any kind. If you find that you can't be subtle enough to get by without using one of those, then you're not trying hard enough.

[Hogwash]

As controversial the argument regarding the effectiveness of smilies is, can we all agree that those that post two or more smilies directly adjacent to one another should be shot?

Furthermore, the roll-eyes smiley should be banned from the Internet. I don't think I have ever seen a single instance on any messageboard where the roll-eyes smiley was used without the poster coming off like a complete dick. Don't get me started when people use it as a single, standalone 'rebuttal' to someone's argument. Every time I see that green bastard sitting alone under a huge swathe of quoted text I want to jump through that person's monitor and bite their eyebrows off. If there's a website dedicated to banning Comic Sans, there could and should be one for roll-eyes.

[insert semi-serious and selectively sarcastic smiley here]

[mr. jp]

As controversial the argument regarding the effectiveness of smilies is, can we all agree that those that post two or more smilies directly adjacent to one another should be shot?

Furthermore, the roll-eyes smiley should be banned from the Internet. I don't think I have ever seen a single instance on any messageboard where the roll-eyes smiley was used without the poster coming off like a complete dick. Don't get me started when people use it as a single, standalone 'rebuttal' to someone's argument. Every time I see that green bastard sitting alone under a huge swathe of quoted text I want to jump through that person's monitor and bite their eyebrows off. If there's a website dedicated to banning Comic Sans, there could and should be one for roll-eyes.

[insert semi-serious and selectively sarcastic smiley here]

Out of curiosity, do I "come off like a complete dick" here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8018739&postcount=259)?

[Bosstone]

Tough. If you don't have the time to think out your reponse, then don't respond.

I could spend $15 to post to this board and proofread my post. Why can't others?
Oh, blow me. I proofread for a fucking living, dickhead, and go over each post I make four or five times to make sure it's saying what I want it to say. Even then, I end up rejecting twice as many posts as those I actually send through. All that has nothing to do with being a skilled and erudite writer such that what one says has only one possible meaning even if one wishes to employ irony or sarcasm.

Not everything that's written on a message board must be of earth-shattering impact, and if I can use a smiley in a light-hearted conversation to indicate a tone of voice rather than spend twice as much time to compose an essay on whether or not I thought the latest episode of Lost was cool, I will. Pretentious asshat.

[Hogwash]

Out of curiosity, do I "come off like a complete dick" here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8018739&postcount=259)?

Nah, you're alright, kid. Forgive the exaggeration (ironically, I felt compelled to add that sarcasm disclaimer at the end incase anybody took offence). Of course, not everybody who uses roll-eyes is a dick, it's just that, to me, it has been overused to the point that I can't see it without making the connection to self-assured, smug idiots who toss out a roll-eyes or three as some kind of support to their argument. A roll-eyes may be appropriate for bad film-making or a politician's rambling idiocy, but I feel that there has got to be a better way. I'm all roll-eyesed out.

It's because of the negative connotations. It's hard to get sick of the yellow smiling smiley because it's always used in the context of kittens and mittens and cinammon buns and the like. And who could get sick of kittens and mittens and cinnamon buns?

Of course, it's just a fracking message board anyway so perhaps I need to worry less about things. Roll on, brother.

[Hunter Hawk]

I'm sorry, but this is patently incorrect. Pictures cross the boundaries of language and culture, something words do only with great difficulty, if at all. Pictures convey a great deal of information at a glance, with minimal possibility of misunderstanding or misinterpretation; again, this is not always the case with words, no matter how carefully chosen. I've seen more scuffles around here caused by the absence of a single smiley than have ever been caused by their overuse. Words alone are simply inadequate to convey the subtleties of emotion we are capable of as human beings. We are expressive creatures, with a body language as complex as any written tongue; a well-placed smiley can speak volumes.

:rolleyes:

[Aquila Be]

:rolleyes:
:mad:

[Taber]

:mad:
:confused:

[BMalion]

I wish we could add this Smiley. (http://nwpassage.wordpress.com/files/2006/06/smiley.jpg)

[Misnomer]

If fact they convey far, far, FAR more than a picture does, provided one knows how to use them.If that were the case, the saying would be "A word is worth a thousand pictures."

[Lord Ashtar]

I should clarify, as this is going off on a tangent.

I don't like smilies, so I rarely use them. My main complaint was the constant requests showing up in ATMB for new, useless ones. We don't need a pukey (which seems to be the most popular request), and we certainly don't need animated smilies. I've looked at the list of animated ones that was posted earlier in this thread, and most of them can be easily expressed in words. The few that remain are so monumentally stupid that anyone who would use them should be shot in the face with a cannon. Chainsaw smilie? What the hell do you need that for?

So let's get off the discussion of the relative merits of the smilie. I've already admitted that some of them have their uses, although some people abuse them, but that's neither here nor there. Let's leave the animated ones for the 13 year olds and their World of Warcraft fora.

[betenoir]

No we don't, you fucking douchebag.

Smile when you say that.