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View Full Version : Difficult Comics Question--True Geeks Only--Legion Of Substitute Heroes


Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
12-02-2006, 07:43 PM
In the Legion Of Superheroes, from DC, there was an organization of second-string heroes called The Legion Of Substitute Heroes. They were rejected from full Legion membership, & formed an auxillery outfit, in the hopes of later acceptance.

The question is about Night Girl. She gets superhuman strength after sundown or in the dark.

What is her bio, & origin of her powers?

Kamino Neko
12-02-2006, 07:51 PM
Night Girl comes from a planet which, due to its environment, doesn't get sunlight.

Her father was a scientist, who wanted to make her into a hero, and exposed her to a ray which granted her superstrength.

Unfortumately, because if their world's odd environment, he didn't realise it had the 'turning off in light' weakness. Which, of course, turned out to be a problem when she left her homeworld and auditioned for the Legion.

cmkeller
12-02-2006, 09:23 PM
Tengu's got her origin pretty much right. To add to the "bio" part of your request, her name was Lydda Jath, and she developed a giant celebrity-type crush on Cosmic Boy. It was because she wanted to try out for the Legion in order to meet Cosmic Boy that she had her scientist father give her powers. Eventually, she did meet, date, and marry Cosmic Boy. As of her disappearance in Zero Hour, Lydda Jath Krinn and husband Rokk had a son, named Pol (after the late Magnetic Kid, Cosmic Boy's brother).

Asgardking
12-02-2006, 10:48 PM
I feel I have to add something because the Legion was my favorite and I read it for many years.

Night Girl is the only one to have been a member of both Legion of Substitute Heroes.

After Polar Boy disbanded the original team to join the main team, an adventure with some Legion Academy students led to the founding of a second Subs.

Their roster:

Night Girl, Cosmic Boy, Duo Damsel, Bouncing Boy (all three retired from the main team) and students Comet Queen and Karate Kid II.

Brainiac4
12-03-2006, 12:28 PM
Off topic of the OP, but since it's answered, I feel okay contributing my favorite Subs quote of all time. Stone Boy, trying to come up with a battle cry:

Right! How does this sound…? “Stop. Or I’ll stand very, very still for a surprisingly long time!”

I believe it was in the Giffen set of Subs stories.

cmkeller
12-04-2006, 09:53 AM
Brainiac4:

Right! How does this sound…? “Stop. Or I’ll stand very, very still for a surprisingly long time!”

I believe it was in the Giffen set of Subs stories.

It's obviously inspired by the image of them Giffen fostered, but I think it's really from their story in Secret Origins # 37, which was written and drawn by Ty Templeton.

Brainiac4
12-04-2006, 02:04 PM
Brainiac4:



It's obviously inspired by the image of them Giffen fostered, but I think it's really from their story in Secret Origins # 37, which was written and drawn by Ty Templeton.
Ah, thank you -- no wonder I was feeling uncertain on that one.

Evil Captor
12-04-2006, 03:51 PM
Sounds a lot like Mystery Men, the Specials and elements of Sky High. Wonder who inspired who?

CandidGamera
12-04-2006, 03:54 PM
Sounds a lot like Mystery Men, the Specials and elements of Sky High. Wonder who inspired who?

The Subs were first, by a long margin, as far I'm aware. Then again, I'm only aware of Mystery Men having a direct comic antecedent, of the three movies. Of course, the more openly comic tone may not have been a feature of the early Subs adventures - Chaim would be in a bette rposition to answer that.

There are similarly comically incompetent hero groups, of course, like the Inferior Five.

CJJ*
12-04-2006, 04:46 PM
Their roster:

Night Girl, Cosmic Boy, Duo Damsel, Bouncing Boy (all three retired from the main team) and students Comet Queen and Karate Kid II.

Who was in the original roster? I remember Color kid--who could change the color of an object--and another who could make plants grow quickly (in one adventure, he was throwing seeds near a enemy so he's be able to use his power). Talk about pathetic...

kurilla
12-04-2006, 04:55 PM
Who was in the original roster? I remember Color kid--who could change the color of an object--and another who could make plants grow quickly (in one adventure, he was throwing seeds near a enemy so he's be able to use his power). Talk about pathetic...

Polar Boy (leader), Night Girl, Stone Boy, Chlorophyll Kid, Fire Lad (who could breathe fire from his mouth), and Color Kid (who once turned Green Kryptonite in the area to blue so it wouldn't affect Superboy and Supergirl... yeah, like the color affects the chemical makeup -- isn't that what they had Chemical King for? Though he was a regular legionnaire, not a sub).

Agonist
12-04-2006, 05:00 PM
I remember a Nausea Girl or something like it... she could make you feel woozy....

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 05:29 PM
I remember a Nausea Girl or something like it... she could make you feel woozy....

Infectious Lass was one of the later members of the Subbies.

Also the only one to be rejected by the Legion TWICE (excluding the ones who lost the contest to get promoted from the Subbies to the actual Legion, which Stone Boy won - and declined the promotion), trying again after improving her power level, somehow not realising it was her lack of control that got her declined.

Otto
12-04-2006, 06:28 PM
Polar Boy (leader), Night Girl, Stone Boy, Chlorophyll Kid, Fire Lad (who could breathe fire from his mouth), and Color Kid.
Color Kid was not one of the original Subs. All the others are correct, and, frankly, were rejected for ridiculous reasons. Well, except for Fire Lad, who was as lame as Green Flame was before she got gene-bombed. Breathing a little lick of flame? Good for busking, not so much for super heroing. And I guess Stone Boy was pretty useless too. But the idea that someone who could manipulate cold, manipulate plant life or had super-strength at night (and presumably the darkness of space where the Legion, like, hangs out) were useless is pretty silly. Although wasn't one of the requirements for Legion membership at the time that the candidate had to posess at least one unique power that was naturally occuring? That would disqualify Night Girl on both fronts.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Although wasn't one of the requirements for Legion membership at the time that the candidate had to posess at least one unique power that was naturally occuring?

Not naturally occuring, just not generated from an outside source - many of the Legion, including Lighting Lad, would be disqualified if it had to be naturally occurring. Garth, Ayla, and Mekt got their powers from an accident.

kurilla
12-04-2006, 06:57 PM
Color Kid was not one of the original Subs. All the others are correct, and, frankly, were rejected for ridiculous reasons. Well, except for Fire Lad, who was as lame as Green Flame was before she got gene-bombed. Breathing a little lick of flame? Good for busking, not so much for super heroing. And I guess Stone Boy was pretty useless too. But the idea that someone who could manipulate cold, manipulate plant life or had super-strength at night (and presumably the darkness of space where the Legion, like, hangs out) were useless is pretty silly. Although wasn't one of the requirements for Legion membership at the time that the candidate had to posess at least one unique power that was naturally occuring? That would disqualify Night Girl on both fronts.

Thanks for the correction. The memory, she grows hazy. Time to pull out the old comics and re-read them, obviously.

The requirement of a naturally occurring power would leave out Colossal Boy (got his power by being bombarded by cosmic rays), Light Lass (after Dream Girl transformed her lightning power to null-gravity through Naltorian science), and founding member Lightning Lad (who got his powers thanks to the lightning beasts of Korbal). Invisible Kid got his powers from a super formula; Bouncing Boy drank something he thought was soda pop; and Sun Boy got his powers in an accidental explosion. Half the early roster would be gone if the power had to be naturally occurring.

The requirement was just a "unique" power, which is why Lightning Lass became Light Lass. That requirement was waived to allow Superboy and Supergirl to be members (and presumably Mon-El, who had virtually identical powers to the Kryptonians).

Okay, enough of being a fangirl geek. .... For now.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 07:04 PM
Light Lass (after Dream Girl transformed her lightning power to null-gravity through Naltorian science)

Ayla would have been disqualified even before Dreamy screwed with her powers, as she got the lightning powers in the same incident as Garth and Mekt (Lightning Lord of the Legion of Supervillains.)

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 07:08 PM
Sounds a lot like Mystery Men, the Specials and elements of Sky High. Wonder who inspired who?

OTTOMH Flaming Carrot debuted in the late seventies. I can't recall when the Mystery Men first show up. It couldn't have been more than a year or two.

Other Mystery Men Include-

Strangler- powers unknown, metal is his weakness so he doesn't touch it. Strangler is a Vietnam veteran. It's been hinted that other Mystery Men are as well.

Star Shark-can cartwheel really well for a long time. Can eat almost anything.

Mystic Hand- His hands can detach and fly. He loses control if they get out of sight.

Captain Attack-built a supersuit. It has many guns, but no other features.

Jumpin' Jehosophat- Has special jumping boots.

Speedball-Is an alien, many strange powers. He flies with missile-toed boots.

Disc Man- Could probably make it as a regular hero. His power is mental control over strange cd-sized discs he found in a hole in his house. They may be of alien origin. He can ride the discs to fly.

Crimson Smasher- Could be a mainstream hero except that he sometimes dissappears for random lengths of time. Nobody knows why he vanishes or where he goes when he does.

Different In The Comic

Mister Furious- Anger makes him stronger and tougher. Angry enough, he's bulletproof. He also has a danger sense.

The Spleen- got his (unspecified) powers when a crazed dentist replaced his spleen with a radioactive ham. He's quite a coward.

The Sphinx- This pulp hero's powers have never been given.

The Shoveler- Found the shovel of King Arthur.

Don Draper
12-04-2006, 07:11 PM
Ayla would have been disqualified even before Dreamy screwed with her powers, as she got the lightning powers in the same incident as Garth and Mekt (Lightning Lord of the Legion of Supervillains.)

Ayla was inducted during a period when founding member Lightning Lad was dead. (He got better.)

As far the "naturally occuring" power requirement, it meant that each Legionnaire had to have a power or ability that was not the product of a weapon or gadget. Owning a Green Lantern power ring for example would not get a character inducted into the Legion, since the ring is a device.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 07:18 PM
Another difference between the Subs and the Mystery Men-

IIRC the Subs either lacked control (Infectious lass, Polar lad) or had a power judged as pathetic (Color Kid, Chlorophyl Boy).

Many of the Mystery Men could be first string heroes if they just had discipline. If Mister Furious would exercise a little and learn a martial art, he could be an Avenger or X Man. Mystery Men do not function well as a team or bother with special training. Several members are ordinary people who just decided to become super heroes. Silverfish became superhero after his wife hit him on the head with a rolling pin. Metro Marauder appears to have no training, no powers, and no special equipment.


BTW

If we're going to discuss pathetic super groups we should include the Great Lakes Avengers- Flat man, Door Man, Squirrel Girl, Big Bertha, and Mr Immortal.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 07:20 PM
Ayla was inducted during a period when founding member Lightning Lad was dead.

Yeeees, I'm not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is 'no, Night Girl's origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren't limited'.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a 'natural power' (assumed to be mutation or racial trait):

Lightning Lad (Accident)
Sun Boy (Accident)
Lightning Lass (Accident)
Collossal Boy (Accident)
Wildfire (Accident)
Bouncing Boy (Accident)
Night Girl (Scientific change)
Fire Lad (Accident)
Sensor Girl (Mystical change)
White Witch (Training)
Computo (Accident)
Ultra Boy (Accident)
Karate Kid (Training)
Shadow Lass (Mystical change)
Invisible Kid (Scientific change)
Catspaw (Scientific change)
Timber Wolf (Scientific change)
Devlin O'Ryan (Accident)
Color Kid (Accident)
Chlorophil Kid (Accident)

Just Some Guy
12-04-2006, 07:27 PM
Ayla was inducted during a period when founding member Lightning Lad was dead. (He got better.)

As far the "naturally occuring" power requirement, it meant that each Legionnaire had to have a power or ability that was not the product of a weapon or gadget. Owning a Green Lantern power ring for example would not get a character inducted into the Legion, since the ring is a device.

Which of course raises the question of how Brainiac 5 got to keep his Legion membership since he doesn't have a superpower other than his gadgets. I guess they just kept him around to keep an eye on him.

Lightning Lad: Hey Brainy, we were talking and we realized that you don't have a superpower... (sees Brainiac 5 working on a new Computo)... uh... other than uh... super-intelligence! Yes, that's it! Super-intelligence! Keep up the good work! And we need more flight rings when you get a minute.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 07:28 PM
IIRC the Subs either lacked control (Infectious lass, Polar lad) or had a power judged as pathetic (Color Kid, Chlorophyl Boy).

There was also 'too dangerous a limitation' - which is what got Night Girl.

Also, while it was why they were rejected, Polar Boy and Fire Lad didn't really demonstrate a lack of control of their powers, IMO. Polar Boy just got a little over-enthusiastic and demonstrated his power level, not his control, and they didn't give him a chance to prove he could control it. And Fire Lad showed good control and good sense of what to direct it at, but they still declined him because he had the potential to cause problems if he screwed up. On the other hand, IIRC, in some later stories, Fire Lad was shown to have a minor problem with control.

Honestly, Infectious Lass, and Color Kid were the only main-team Subbies (the Subbies had an auxillary, which contained heroes with even lamer powers - Double Header and Antenna Lad) that really deserved to be declined. Infectious Lass did have a major control problem (until after the 5 year gap), and Color Kid's powers WERE lame (except under a handful of very specific circumstances).

kurilla
12-04-2006, 07:31 PM
Yeeees, I'm not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is 'no, Night Girl's origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren't limited'.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a 'natural power' (assumed to be mutation or racial trait):

Lightning Lad (Accident)
Sun Boy (Accident)
Lightning Lass (Accident)
Collossal Boy (Accident)
Wildfire (Accident)
Bouncing Boy (Accident)
Night Girl (Scientific change)
Fire Lad (Accident)
Sensor Girl (Mystical change)
White Witch (Training)
Computo (Accident)
Ultra Boy (Accident)
Karate Kid (Training)
Shadow Lass (Mystical change)
Invisible Kid (Scientific change)
Catspaw (Scientific change)
Timber Wolf (Scientific change)
Devlin O'Ryan (Accident)
Color Kid (Accident)
Chlorophil Kid (Accident)

Bouncing Boy (scientific change)

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 07:31 PM
Which of course raises the question of how Brainiac 5 got to keep his Legion membership since he doesn't have a superpower other than his gadgets.

He, like Karate Kid, while not having a superpower in the classical sense, had a non-power of such a level it became a de-facto superpower - Karate Kid's skill level with his Super Karate allowed him to go toe-to-toe with Superboy (although Supes did win the fight, it was still impressive), and Brainiac 5's 12th Level Intelligence is so far above even a standard Coluan that it's essentially the same as having a superpower.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 07:32 PM
Bouncing Boy (scientific change)

I should have clarified my notation - I was only using Scientific Change for deliberate changes, which is why I have Chuck listed as an Accident, since he didn't intend to drink the elasticising formula.

kurilla
12-04-2006, 07:33 PM
Bouncing Boy (scientific change)


Dammit, hit submit too soon.

I meant to type: Bouncing Boy (scientific change) (accident) - since the formula was a scientific thing that he drank by mistake.

Oy.

kurilla
12-04-2006, 07:34 PM
I should have clarified my notation - I was only using Scientific Change for deliberate changes, which is why I have Chuck listed as an Accident, since he didn't intend to drink the elasticising formula.

And one of these days I will learn to preview on a routine basis.

Okay, I agree with that reasoning.

Don Draper
12-04-2006, 07:41 PM
Yeeees, I'm not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is 'no, Night Girl's origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren't limited'.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a 'natural power' (assumed to be mutation or racial trait):

Lightning Lad (Accident)
Sun Boy (Accident)
Lightning Lass (Accident)
Collossal Boy (Accident)
Wildfire (Accident)
Bouncing Boy (Accident)
Night Girl (Scientific change)
Fire Lad (Accident)
Sensor Girl (Mystical change)
White Witch (Training)
Computo (Accident)
Ultra Boy (Accident)
Karate Kid (Training)
Shadow Lass (Mystical change)
Invisible Kid (Scientific change)
Catspaw (Scientific change)
Timber Wolf (Scientific change)
Devlin O'Ryan (Accident)
Color Kid (Accident)
Chlorophil Kid (Accident)

As I stated in the rest of my post, the clause that Legionnaires had to have a 'naturally occurring power' had nothing to do with how they got their power. It had to be a super-power (or super-ability in the case of Brainaic-5) generated from their physical body and not derived from a technological or magical device. Whether they recieved the power from a freak accident or mutation did not matter. What was important that they did not rely on a device or weapon as their primary super-power.

The only reason that Lightning Lass might have been precluded from joining the Legion was that her power was exactly the same as her brother's, who had already been a Legionnaire. When he was dead, that wasn't a problem.

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor
12-04-2006, 07:57 PM
BTW

If we're going to discuss pathetic super groups we should include the Great Lakes Avengers- Flat man, Door Man, Squirrel Girl, Big Bertha, and Mr Immortal.

<GEEK SCORN>HA! I can top that!</GEEK SCORN>

What about..The Inferior Five?

Although, the Phil Foglio version was fun....

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 08:02 PM
<GEEK SCORN>HA! I can top that!</GEEK SCORN>

What about..The Inferior Five?

Although, the Phil Foglio version was fun....

Two things

#1 They were already mentioned in post #9

#2 I'm acquainted with Merry Man, Akward Man, The Blimp, Dumb Bunny and White feather. I assumed that being printed by DC, everybody else in the thread was familiar with them as well.

BTW Dumb Bunny has an inteligent sister who appeared in Foglio's Angel And The Ape.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 08:09 PM
The only reason that Lightning Lass might have been precluded from joining the Legion was that her power was exactly the same as her brother's

Which, again, was the whole point of the thread of conversation we were having.

kurilla posted that if the rule was that you couldn't have powers caused by anything but an accident of birth, Ayla would have been disqualified by Dream Girl changing her powers.

I clarified that if that had been the case she would have been disqualified before her powers were changed because her powers were caused by the same accident as Garth's.

The fact that that isn't the case is taken as read because they were both in the Legion. A point I also made directly in my post before kurilla's.

Kamino Neko
12-04-2006, 08:41 PM
On the chance that we're arguing terminology, I'll point out that the word used in all versions of the Legion Constitution that I've been able to find, is 'genuine', not 'natural', and in at least one version of the constitution, the rule against extrinsic powers is spelled out separately.

A later version has the rule worded thus:

(ii) have at least one genuine super-power not activated, assisted, or powered by extrinsic means and not possessed by the contemporary Terran population; and further, such super-power must be distinct from the super-power(s) possessed by any active member other than Superboy;

(Cite (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing35/hoj.shtml))

Bryan Ekers
12-04-2006, 09:32 PM
Night Girl's home planet was Kathoon, incidentally. Her father subjected her to a "vitalizing ray" that gave her superhuman strength, supposedly nearing that of Superboy or Mon-El.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:35 PM
Night Girl's home planet was Kathoon, incidentally.

Oddly, kathoon is also the noise Tony Stark makes when he sneezes inside his iron mask.

levdrakon
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
I remember a Nausea Girl or something like it... she could make you feel woozy....That brings back memories. I had the comic where she tried out. I hadn't read it yet and didn't know who she was but looked at her and guessed her power would be to make people sick. When I read the comic and found out that was her power I was really proud of myself for having guessed right. I bragged to the older neighbor kid who was the comic expert and he mocked me because it was obvious that was going to be her power. :( Fuck you older comic geek neighbor. I guessed it!

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:44 PM
Super Hero League Of Hoboken

Robomop-clean messes
Crimson Tape-make organizational charts
Mademoiselle Pepperoni- know pizza toppings without opening lid
Tropical Oil Man- Increase enemies' cholesterol levels
Captain Excitement-put animals to sleep.

The league were featured in a video game of the same name. The game is still available for download at a site with Underdog in the name.

CandidGamera
12-04-2006, 09:58 PM
Super Hero League Of Hoboken

Robomop-clean messes
Crimson Tape-make organizational charts
Mademoiselle Pepperoni- know pizza toppings without opening lid
Tropical Oil Man- Increase enemies' cholesterol levels
Captain Excitement-put animals to sleep.

The league were featured in a video game of the same name. The game is still available for download at a site with Underdog in the name.

I think you're forgetting at least one.. The Iron Tummy, perhaps?

And of course, in other media, there's the Tick and his cohort..

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 10:23 PM
You're right. I forgot

Iron Tummy- eat spicy foods without distress

I think that's all the starting heroes.

Just Some Guy
12-04-2006, 11:06 PM
I liked King Midas from the SHLoH with the power to turn anything into a muffler.