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Otto
12-04-2006, 05:17 PM
Alternate title - "Suck on this until January, bitches!"

Last week, we learned more about our Five Little Peppers Eight Little Heroes and How They Grew (and wicked bonus points to anyone who recognizes the reference) while Hiro learned that he would do anything for love but he can't do that.

Tonight the threads pick back up from two weeks ago, with Peter under arrest for the possible murder of the possibly dead Jackie, Sylar in the hands of Mr Bennet and a bullet whizzing toward DL's head. We are promised that a hero will "be lost" (which may not mean "die") and that in a show known for surprise ending we ain't seen nothin' yet.

astro
12-04-2006, 05:36 PM
We are promised that a hero will "be lost" .

One of the goes to "The Island (http://www.hanttula.com/projects/lost/)" ? It's all becoming clear now... well maybe not so much.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 05:43 PM
Alternate title - "Suck on this until January, bitches!"

Last week, we learned more about our Five Little Peppers Eight Little Heroes and How They Grew
Ben - can chop wood like a mofo
Polly - charms rich boys into sending her canaries
Phronsie - knows how to turn crusty old men into emo saps
Joel - has the power needed to beat up rich brats
Davie - resistance to measles

Argh. What will I do on Monday evenings for the next month?

sturmhauke
12-04-2006, 05:57 PM
Did they say "lost"? In that case, it might be Hiro, getting lost in spacetime, as it were. He'd be back at some point obviously.

Otto
12-04-2006, 06:20 PM
Oh, and as for nicknames...use them, don't use them, makes me no never mind, I ain't getting mixed up in that mess again this week. Refer to the OP from last week's thread if you find a nickname confusing.

jacob wrestling
12-04-2006, 06:24 PM
Polly - charms rich boys into sending her canaries
Phronsie - knows how to turn crusty old men into emo saps
Best book ever. My older sister and I used to play 5 Little Peppers all the time. She was Polly, and I was Phronsie. Gah, I miss being a kid.

Here's hoping it's Niki/Jessica that's "lost" for good. PleasedieNikidieNikiboringboringhatediediedie! I saw a thing on E! that said a main character was leaving the show because of a contract dispute - apparently, one of our Heroes wanted too much money.

John Mace
12-04-2006, 06:55 PM
One of the goes to "The Island (http://www.hanttula.com/projects/lost/)" ? It's all becoming clear now... well maybe not so much.
Well, in January it moves to Wed at 8PM (according to my paper), so it's a nice "Lost" lead-in. Seems like the "fall finale" procedure is catching on with lots of shows now.

I only watched 1 1/2 episodes of this show, but I'm kinda liking it. I'll watch tonight and then pick it up again in Jan. I just hope they're not going where I think they might be going with the whole "next stage of human evolution" thing. Still, looks like a fun show.

Nefarious Chipmunk
12-04-2006, 07:11 PM
I wonder if the hero that is lost is Jessica. Maybe Niki finally conquers her and takes over her power, and Jessica "disappears."

Otto
12-04-2006, 07:19 PM
Well, in January it moves to Wed at 8PM (according to my paper), so it's a nice "Lost" lead-in.
Yeah, it's a nice "Lost" lead-in if you're home on Wednesdays and can watch shows on different networks, which I'm not and I can't, so why the hell must they fuck with my schedule? Not that I'm gonna weep a copious number of bitter tears if I have to choose one over the other ("Lost" loses; not even a contest). I blame 24.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 07:43 PM
I wonder if the hero that is lost is Jessica. Maybe Niki finally conquers her and takes over her power, and Jessica "disappears."
Well, if what jacob wrestling posted is correct, they're going to get rid of an actor altogether. That would mean it can't be Jessica, unless she and Niki both die together. (Not that I'd mind.)

levdrakon
12-04-2006, 07:44 PM
Are they pitting Heroes against Lost, or Heroes comes on before Lost?

Lost loses if it's a Sophies choice, hands down.

John Mace
12-04-2006, 07:46 PM
Are they pitting Heroes against Lost, or Heroes comes on before Lost?

Lost loses if it's a Sophies choice, hands down.
Before. Lost is at 9.

But I thought eveyone had a DVR by now, so it really shouldn't matter. :cool:

Otto
12-04-2006, 07:55 PM
Before. Lost is at 9.

But I thought eveyone had a DVR by now, so it really shouldn't matter.
I won't get a DVR because I have no interest in sending off marketing information to the people who sell them. Give me one that isn't also a snitch and I'll gladly use it.

levdrakon
12-04-2006, 08:04 PM
I won't get a DVR because I have no interest in sending off marketing information to the people who sell them. Give me one that isn't also a snitch and I'll gladly use it.How do you get your TV?

We have Dishnetwork satellite TV and we told them when they installed it we have no house phone service and as far as I know, the DVR's in the house have no way of phoning home without that.

chrisk
12-04-2006, 08:18 PM
OMG, I just loved the telepathic 'feedback screech' between officer troi and Peter petrelli mimicking his telepathy. That's an idea I've used in some of my stories, that two telepaths trying to read each other at the same time could get locked into a feedback loop, like a microphone picking up its own monitor. :)

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:20 PM
Micahs Dad

So his arm can be BOTH tangible and intangible? ...How can you phase into the door, and then still "touch" the lock?

Mind-reading Cop, and and Petrelli


Cop: I'm going to read your mind now.
Petrelli: No dice stranger.
Cop: No, I have this abillity.
Peterelli: Yeah, and Ive got it too!


And yet, the cop could get it to work long enough to get the "truth" out

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:24 PM
Hiro and Ando are busting out the Computer Geek Power!!

Only Mostly Dead
12-04-2006, 08:28 PM
Damn, so excited that ProbablyNotEvilDad might be showing some of the same super mojo as the Haitian. But, alas, the Hatian was just lurking in the area. I want ProbablyNotEvilDad to be more than just a ringleader.

So far, no luck.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:28 PM
By that, I meant the "If Then" statement statements.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We are doing everything in our POWER to protect them". heh heh.

ooh ooh Dopple skanker(s) are on.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:29 PM
Damn, so excited that ProbablyNotEvilDad might be showing some of the same super mojo as the Haitian. But, alas, the Hatian was just lurking in the area. I want ProbablyNotEvilDad to be more than just a ringleader.

So far, no luck.


Ah but

We have learned that the Hatian (probably) is a mute. Seems as if every 'hero' has a drawback someplace else. The 'drive' needed to evolve

E-Sabbath
12-04-2006, 08:30 PM
It's an If-then statement!

Linda Hamilton the Nikki!

This is a totally sweet episode. Hiro gets confused about the cheerleader, and then Issac will tell him.
We learn the Haitian is mute. So he mutes other things.
No Nissan Versa yet, though.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:33 PM
Wow. So did not see that angle Claire is playing out with Peterelli right now. Very Well done 'half truth' piece.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:47 PM
Well that would be the one word to get. Wouldn't it?

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 08:49 PM
White subtitles do not show up against white shirts! bah.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:53 PM
New Sylar 7.0, with added Hanibal-power!

Meeko
12-04-2006, 08:54 PM
"Yes you can, CONSTIPATE!" :::squeeze:::

Only Mostly Dead
12-04-2006, 08:55 PM
"And your mother, so many times."

Well that explains her having absolutely nothing but fluff.

And so goes the Mute theory.

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:07 PM
For all those in last weeks thread, Charlie was killed by Sylar, got it? No aneurism.

Slacker
12-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Best line of the night: "I gotta find that sword." (something like that)

Another A++ episode. This show is just blowing me away. The only dark spot is Niki/Jessica, who they spent far too long on, but aside from that it was great.

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:09 PM
Best line of the night: "I gotta find that sword." (something like that)

Another A++ episode. This show is just blowing me away. The only dark spot is Niki/Jessica, who they spent far too long on, but aside from that it was great.

Oh no! What if I step on a bug?

Meeko
12-04-2006, 09:10 PM
Best line of the night: "I gotta find that sword." (something like that)

Another A++ episode. This show is just blowing me away. The only dark spot is Niki/Jessica, who they spent far too long on, but aside from that it was great.

One Blemish: Why tell us that a hero will die, if we don't know who?!


And I'm still trying to work on the "suprise" ending. Apparently I missed it.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:12 PM
So it was Eden! Mixed feelings about that. I would rather it have been Niki. Mohinder is going to be heartbroken. But she blew her own brains out before Sylar could take her powers, right? That's how I interpreted that scene. Good for her.

Claire knows about her dad now. Man, that guy is scary. Wonder what the Haitian's agenda is?

It can't be Peter. IT CAN'T BE! NOOOOOOOO!

I loved Hiro's reaction upon seeing the painting. So cute!

Achren
12-04-2006, 09:13 PM
So now Peter is having flashes of the future? Why? Is his power fuzzier then just mimicing other heros' power?

Slacker
12-04-2006, 09:13 PM
One Blemish: Why tell us that a hero will die, if we don't know who?!
Spoilers if anyone hasn't watched it yet...












Eden's brains splattering all over the holding cell didn't tip you off? :eek:

Meeko
12-04-2006, 09:14 PM
So it was Eden! Mixed feelings about that. I would rather it have been Niki. Mohinder is going to be heartbroken. But she blew her own brains out before Sylar could take her powers, right? That's how I interpreted that scene. Good for her.



I thought the gun / tranq gun was still "loaded" with the one round (the green vial) at the end of the scene?

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:15 PM
So now Peter is having flashes of the future? Why? Is his power fuzzier then just mimicing other heros' power?
He seems to have odd dreams - that one time he dreamed about his brother's accident before he knew about it. Maybe he's a dreamwalker or something.

Oops, wrong universe.

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:15 PM
Micahs Dad

So his arm can be BOTH tangible and intangible? ...How can you phase into the door, and then still "touch" the lock?
Ny making your arm intangible to pass through the door and then resolidifying your hand on the other side while keeping your upper arm phased. The better question is why not just walk through the door and unlock it from the other side?

Mind-reading Cop, and Petrelli

And yet, the cop could get it to work long enough to get the "truth" out
They could still hear each other, just with the echo/feedback.

So assuming the Haitian didn't wipe Zach back years, if Claire hadn't spoken to him since sixth grade why would she have called him in the first place?

Is Eden the "hero" who was "lost"? I guess so, which is kind of a rip since she wasn't exactly a "hero." But, she died as she lived, irritatingly.

Damn, so excited that ProbablyNotEvilDad might be showing some of the same super mojo as the Haitian. But, alas, the Hatian was just lurking in the area. I want ProbablyNotEvilDad to be more than just a ringleader.
I'm pulling for him not having any powers. I want there to be some significant non-powered people on the show.

I'm a bit confused about Peter. Does he have a permanent precognitive ability of his own that manifests in dreams? He duplicates Isaac and SanjogIyerSanjog if he does and I feel kind of cheated. That would also make him the first person to have two distinct superpowers (assuming that the Haitian's "jamming," if it's the Haitian who's doing the jamming and not AED, is a sub-power of his overall ability to affect the brain).



The show returns January 22, which is a Monday, so suck it John Mace's TV Guide!

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:17 PM
I thought the gun / tranq gun was still "loaded" with the one round (the green vial) at the end of the scene?
Buh? What do you mean? It was a real gun - she meant for Sylar to blow his own brains out, but things got out of control so she blew hers out before he could take it/eat it/whatever he does with it. When did they show a green vial?

Meeko
12-04-2006, 09:17 PM
Eden's brains splattering all over the holding cell didn't tip you off? :eek:


Do we know it's Eden, and not Sylar? ((I mean, if the Haitian is moving up in the storyline....))


And further, since when is Eden worthwhile to the plot, at all? ((Yes, we all know shes expendable. EXPENDABLE..... i.e. no surprise if she goes. ))

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:17 PM
I thought the gun / tranq gun was still "loaded" with the one round (the green vial) at the end of the scene?

Why would you say it's a tranq gun? It was a gun. Eden wanted to Sylar to blow his brains out. It didn't work out. Eden is dead. Lets not go through the same thing we did with Charlie.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 09:19 PM
Buh? What do you mean? It was a real gun - she meant for Sylar to blow his own brains out, but things got out of control so she blew hers out before he could take it/eat it/whatever he does with it. When did they show a green vial?


I am sick and tired of this all being conjecture. Either your 100% right or you can't call me out.


We don't know what we were promised to be told. Thats why I remain pissed at the show.

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:20 PM
Oh, and what was the deal with Peter's repeated coughing fits? If he was sick before encountering Claire at the high school he should have healed from the illness (assuming her power extends to illness and not just injury) and if he got sick in jail then, again, when Claire visited he should've taken on her powers and healed.

Slacker
12-04-2006, 09:20 PM
Do we know it's Eden, and not Sylar? ((I mean, if the Haitian is moving up in the storyline....))


And further, since when is Eden worthwhile to the plot, at all? ((Yes, we all know shes expendable. EXPENDABLE..... i.e. no surprise if she goes. ))
I think it was clearly Eden. Sylar mentioned taking her power, then got an "oh no don't do it" look on his face when she brought the gun to her head.

And she became very worthwhile in the last few episodes when we discovered her extremely powerful ability. The question is, why didn't it work on Sylar?

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:21 PM
I am sick and tired of this all being conjecture. Either your 100% right or you can't call me out.


We don't know what we were promised to be told. Thats why I remain pissed at the show.

It's not conjecture. It was very clear.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Guns have no effect on Sylar, as we have already seen and as he so kindly pointed out to Eden.

Is Eden the "hero" who was "lost"? I guess so, which is kind of a rip since she wasn't exactly a "hero." But, she died as she lived, irritatingly.

What was irritating about her death? That she accidentally let Sylar free? How did he get free anyway? Was he able to use his powers all along and simply pretending not to?

That would also make him the first person to have two distinct superpowers (assuming that the Haitian's "jamming," if it's the Haitian who's doing the jamming and not AED, is a sub-power of his overall ability to affect the brain).
I think it's pretty clear at this point that it's the Haitian who's doing the blocking. Why would he be following them around everywhere if AED could do it on his own?

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:21 PM
We don't know what we were promised to be told. Thats why I remain pissed at the show.
Then stop watching and especially stop posting fragmentary comments in the middle of the show with no context.

Meeko
12-04-2006, 09:22 PM
{By} making your arm intangible to pass through the door and then resolidifying your hand on the other side while keeping your upper arm phased. The better question is why not just walk through the door and unlock it from the other side?



So far, the only thing that Micahs dad has phased, has been his arm right?

Perhaps the power is limited to his arms for some reason.

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:24 PM
So far, the only thing that Micahs dad has phased, has been his arm right?

Perhaps the power is limited to his arms for some reason.

The first time we saw him he came through the wall. All of him. He also supposedly walked out of jail.

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:25 PM
I think it's pretty clear at this point that it's the Haitian who's doing the blocking. Why would he be following them around everywhere if AED could do it on his own?
Misdirection?

So far, the only thing that Micahs dad has phased, has been his arm right?

Perhaps the power is limited to his arms for some reason.
Jessica's second shot went through his phased head. He also escaped from jail, which indicates he can phase his entire body.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:26 PM
We also saw a bullet phase through Ghostdad's head.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:26 PM
I am sick and tired of this all being conjecture. Either your 100% right or you can't call me out.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What, exactly, do you see as conjecture? I asked you about the details you described because I don't remember seeing them and would honestly like to know about details I've missed (it's a fast-paced show, and I'm not the best observer.)

I, for one, am sure that it was Eden who died by that gunshot. She pointed it at Sylar first, he reminded her that bullets have no effect on him. Then she pointed at herself. Gunshot sound, bloodsplatter. Seems pretty clear to me.

Wile E
12-04-2006, 09:28 PM
I am not spoilering stuff ... if you haven't watched the show yet, back out of the thread.






At first I thought that was Godzilla in the picture. After another look I decided it looked like a Carnataurus. But why would Hiro need to go that far into the past?

Okay, so the Haitian isn't a mute. Now we know why Claire's momma is such an airhead. It's too bad he couldn't leave some of Zach's memory intact so he could remember being friends with Claire since he's her best friend.

The good news now is we won't have threads hijacked with discussions of Eden's ears. Yay! I don't understand why she'd give the dangerous guy a gun to off himself, how about some pills? A rope? A big bucket of water? A plastic bag? At least she wasn't stupid enough to let him get her powers.

Issac looks good all cleaned up. Now if we could just get Peter a hair cut.


Speaking of Peter, is the actor playing Rocky's son in the latest Rocky movie, Rocky 13:Rocky vs Medicare? It looks like him in the trailers except for the decent haircut.

astro
12-04-2006, 09:29 PM
Guns have no effect on Sylar, as we have already seen and as he so kindly pointed out to Eden.


What was irritating about her death? That she accidentally let Sylar free? How did he get free anyway? Was he able to use his powers all along and simply pretending not to?


I think it's pretty clear at this point that it's the Haitian who's doing the blocking. Why would he be following them around everywhere if AED could do it on his own?

Not all the time. The Haitian can't be everywhere 24/7 so my assumption is that there are mechanisms in the cell that somehow dampen Syler's powers (and all mutant powers) . When she turned off the dampening field so she could use her power, he used his. Pretty stupid of her if that's the way it went down.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:30 PM
Misdirection?

If it is, they better have a bloody good reason for the Haitian to be dogging AED's footsteps. I hate misdirection for the sake of misdirection.

We know that the Haitian can wipe memories and block the use of powers. He's exhibited both in situations when he's nowhere near AED. Which of those powers are people thinking might be attributed to AED?

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:30 PM
I am not spoilering stuff ... if you haven't watched the show yet, back out of the thread.






At first I thought that was Godzilla in the picture. After another look I decided it looked like a Carnataurus. But why would Hiro need to go that far into the past?

Okay, so the Haitian isn't a mute. Now we know why Claire's momma is such an airhead. It's too bad he couldn't leave some of Zach's memory intact so he could remember being friends with Claire since he's her best friend.

The good news now is we won't have threads hijacked with discussions of Eden's ears. Yay! I don't understand why she'd give the dangerous guy a gun to off himself, how about some pills? A rope? A big bucket of water? A plastic bag? At least she wasn't stupid enough to let him get her powers.

Issac looks good all cleaned up. Now if we could just get Peter a hair cut.


Speaking of Peter, is the actor playing Rocky's son in the latest Rocky movie, Rocky 13:Rocky vs Medicare? It looks like him in the trailers except for the decent haircut.

Yes thats him in Rocky Balboa.

I hear they are going to have an open casket at Eden's wake. They couldn't fit her ears in the coffin.

Xan
12-04-2006, 09:31 PM
Speaking of Peter, is the actor playing Rocky's son in the latest Rocky movie, Rocky 13:Rocky vs Medicare? It looks like him in the trailers except for the decent haircut.
It is (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0893257/)

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:32 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about. What, exactly, do you see as conjecture?
I think it's when people make statements like "Perhaps the power is limited to his arms for some reason."

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:33 PM
Not all the time. The Haitian can't be everywhere 24/7 so my assumption is that there are mechanisms in the cell that somehow dampen Syler's powers (and all mutant powers) . When she turned off the dampening field so she could use her power, he used his. Pretty stupid of her if that's the way it went down.
:smack: I am stupid. Of course she would have to disable whatever it was that was keeping Sylar from using his own powers, if she wanted to use her own.

Hm. I suppose she thought her voice would be able to get him under control before he had time to use his own powers.

Why didn't she just go with the Haitian and use him to subdue him first? :dubious: Although perhaps they wanted to work quickly before AED caught on.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:34 PM
Re The Dinosaur

Since it seemed to be breathing fire, I'm guessing it turns out to be part of a display at a comicbook convention. The last con I was at had a ten foot tall (and equally wide) robot with glowing red eyes. A twenty foot tall firebreathing dinosaur would be a safety hazard, but would not be out of place. The sword could be merchandise from another vendor.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:36 PM
Why didn't she just go with the Haitian and use him to subdue him first? :dubious: Although perhaps they wanted to work quickly before AED caught on.

Eden's earlier dialogue makes it sound like she thought the Haitian would follow orders despite his own misgivings, and not help her kill Sylar.

RikWriter
12-04-2006, 09:36 PM
Oh, and what was the deal with Peter's repeated coughing fits? If he was sick before encountering Claire at the high school he should have healed from the illness (assuming her power extends to illness and not just injury) and if he got sick in jail then, again, when Claire visited he should've taken on her powers and healed.


I think the coughing has to do with what happened to him at the end.
He slipped into a coma due to having absorbed too many powers too close together---first Claire's, then telepacop, then Claire's again, then his brother's.

Achren
12-04-2006, 09:37 PM
That was my thought as well.

RikWriter
12-04-2006, 09:37 PM
Re The Dinosaur

Since it seemed to be breathing fire, I'm guessing it turns out to be part of a display at a comicbook convention. The last con I was at had a ten foot tall (and equally wide) robot with glowing red eyes. A twenty foot tall firebreathing dinosaur would be a safety hazard, but would not be out of place. The sword could be merchandise from another vendor.

I didn't notice any fire breathing.

Slacker
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
At first I thought that was Godzilla in the picture. After another look I decided it looked like a Carnataurus. But why would Hiro need to go that far into the past?
He didn't need to go six months in the past to save Charlie; he intended to go one day. Obviously he doesn't have total over his powers yet. We've conjectured before (Hi Meeko!) that Hiro seems to have nailed down stopping time, but not travelling through it.

Wile E
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
Re The Dinosaur

Since it seemed to be breathing fire, I'm guessing it turns out to be part of a display at a comicbook convention. The last con I was at had a ten foot tall (and equally wide) robot with glowing red eyes. A twenty foot tall firebreathing dinosaur would be a safety hazard, but would not be out of place. The sword could be merchandise from another vendor.

I missed the fire-breathing part. Hmm ... perhaps it is a dinosaur but it's a mutant dinosaur! The first mutant! And Hiro has to go back in time to .... okay, I give up.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:42 PM
Eden's earlier dialogue makes it sound like she thought the Haitian would follow orders despite his own misgivings, and not help her kill Sylar.
Hm. Does the Haitian pretend to be a mute? I vaguely recall Eden saying something like, "He'd agree with me, if he could talk!" At first I thought him and Eden were rebelling together, but perhaps they were rebelling seperately.

Loach
12-04-2006, 09:43 PM
I missed the fire-breathing part. Hmm ... perhaps it is a dinosaur but it's a mutant dinosaur! The first mutant! And Hiro has to go back in time to .... okay, I give up.

It looked to me to be background color, not fire coming out of it's mouth.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 09:43 PM
Anybody else see fire-breathing? Lighting suggesting of fire-breathing? Anybody have a link to the painting?

Wile E No need for sarcasm. I'm sticking to my explanation. It's no stretch for a comic con to have a dinosaur or dragon statue and a vendor selling swords. Isaac self publishes a comic. Hiro is a comic fan (honorary member of the Merry Marvel Marching Society). A convention fits the established facts and explains the painting with the least conjecture.

MMI
12-04-2006, 09:45 PM
So does the end of the world (or at least NYC) come with Peter Petrelli channeling radioactive man somehow, whilst getting all worked up about something fraternal?

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:47 PM
I am stupid. Of course she would have to disable whatever it was that was keeping Sylar from using his own powers, if she wanted to use her own.
To be clear, we don't know what exactly was keeping Sylar from using his powers or for matter if anything was keeping him from using his powers. AED has underestimated powered people before, as when he thought Matt would be unable to read his thoughts.

Why didn't she just go with the Haitian and use him to subdue him first?
Besides not knowing whether the Haitian would go against AED's orders, the Haitian was also off on other errands at the time.

He slipped into a coma due to having absorbed too many powers too close together---first Claire's, then telepacop, then Claire's again, then his brother's.
Is there something textual that indicates that Peter's situation was caused by over-absorption of powers? Or are we *gasp* conjecturing again?

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 09:52 PM
I read some interview on tvguide.com where one of the show's writers said that's what they meant to imply. (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting={6D0C6401-84BA-43AC-8212-45653B68E469}).

Otto
12-04-2006, 09:52 PM
Anybody else see fire-breathing? Lighting suggesting of fire-breathing? Anybody have a link to the painting?
The background behind the figures of Hiro and the Lizard Of Indeterminate Species (or "Lois," and yes I am an ass) is an orangey color, contrasting with the darker background colors on either side of the orange. The orange background clearly extends behind Lois's head and is not a stream of fire originating from her mouth.

Wile E
12-04-2006, 09:53 PM
Anybody else see fire-breathing? Lighting suggesting of fire-breathing? Anybody have a link to the painting?

Wile E No need for sarcasm. I'm sticking to my explanation. It's no stretch for a comic con to have a dinosaur or dragon statue and a vendor selling swords. Isaac self publishes a comic. Hiro is a comic fan (honorary member of the Merry Marvel Marching Society). A convention fits the established facts and explains the painting with the least conjecture.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I thought I did miss something. I watch on a small TV and I'm nearsighted. I miss a lot sometimes. I was joking around about it because everyone always throws in some crazy theories and that was mine. No sarcasm intended.


Speaking of Peter absorbing powers, he was close to Sylar so didn't he absorb some of his powers?

Sylar's killed 6 people, we know he took the telekinetic's powers and Charlie's super memory. He probably has a power to freeze as well, as one of the victims we saw was frozen. So that leaves 3 other powers we don't know about. Was there any other powers shown in the earlier episode where he was trying to get the little girl out of FBI headquarters?

astro
12-04-2006, 09:53 PM
To be clear, we don't know what exactly was keeping Sylar from using his powers or for matter if anything was keeping him from using his powers. AED has underestimated powered people before, as when he thought Matt would be unable to read his thoughts.


Besides not knowing whether the Haitian would go against AED's orders, the Haitian was also off on other errands at the time.


Is there something textual that indicates that Peter's situation was caused by over-absorption of powers? Or are we *gasp* conjecturing again?

It's not a bad conjecture actually. I'm thinking that a possible plot direction is that Peter gets progressively more and more unstable as he absorbs additional powers, and that when he meets radioactive man that's the final pop. Sylar's then got to "fix" him or everyone dies.

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:01 PM
It's not a bad conjecture actually. I'm thinking that a possible plot direction is that Peter gets progressively more and more unstable as he absorbs additional powers, and that when he meets radioactive man that's the final pop. Sylar's then got to "fix" him or everyone dies.

Peter doesn't keep the powers. They haven't shown how long he does hold onto them.

Peter's "visions" are not literal like Issac's paintings. I don't think that he will wind up being the exploding man. I think he was seeing a vision of Sylar. Sylar will brainsuck the radioactive man. The heroes have to stop him. If Sylar had Claire's power then there would be no way to stop him. That's why they saved the world. Purely conjecture of course.

astro
12-04-2006, 10:03 PM
Out of curiosity, in reading some articles about the show the plots are apparently being changed in an ongoing fashion to respond to the popularity of various characters. How far ahead of each airing are the shows being filmed?

RikWriter
12-04-2006, 10:03 PM
Is there something textual that indicates that Peter's situation was caused by over-absorption of powers? Or are we *gasp* conjecturing again?

Actually, it's a spoiler, which was WHY I used a fucking spoiler box. Thanks for putting it out in the open, sport. :rolleyes:

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 10:07 PM
I don't think the powers Peter absorbs build up inside him, but I do think he doesn't have very good control over what he absorbs. All the heroes have to work on refining their control over their powers, so it makes sense for Peter to be clumsy in his own control of them. I don't think he'll be the ultimate cause of the explosion, but it seems like the show wants us to think of him as a possibility. (http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting={6D0C6401-84BA-43AC-8212-45653B68E469})

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 10:08 PM
Oops, I suppose the above link contains spoilers (although IMO pretty mild), since it links to an interview with the creator of the show.

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:09 PM
Actually, it's a spoiler, which was WHY I used a fucking spoiler box. Thanks for putting it out in the open, sport. :rolleyes:

If it's a cite, then make it a cite. You wrote it like you just made it up. If you got the information from somewhere then say something like, "I read this on TVguide.com....[spoilerbox]" They way you put it there was no way to know if you were pulling out of your ass or if it was a spoiler. A little clue before hand as to if it is a real spoiler would be nice to those who don't want to be spoiled.

Wile E
12-04-2006, 10:11 PM
This really is a spoiler

The show will gain a hero, too. Claude, an invisible man played by British actor Christopher Eccleston (Doctor Who), appears Jan. 22. So is his name a nod to Claude Rains?

Otto
12-04-2006, 10:13 PM
Actually, it's a spoiler, which was WHY I used a fucking spoiler box.
Actually, you presented it in the form of conjecture, which also tends to get put into fucking spoiler boxes around these parts, by saying that it was something you "think." Clearly indicating that it's a spoiler by prefacing it with something along the lines of "According to an interview with the creators" removes all doubt.

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:14 PM
Wile e is that confirmed? I heard the rumor but wasn't sure.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 10:15 PM
Wile e is that confirmed? I heard the rumor but wasn't sure.
Yes, it's been confirmed.

Jurph
12-04-2006, 10:19 PM
Re The Dinosaur

Since it seemed to be breathing fire, I'm guessing it turns out to be part of a display at a comicbook convention. The last con I was at had a ten foot tall (and equally wide) robot with glowing red eyes. A twenty foot tall firebreathing dinosaur would be a safety hazard, but would not be out of place. The sword could be merchandise from another vendor.

I don't know, I can absolutely see Hiro panic-phasing back to the Cretaceous (or the Jurassic, or whenever) if Bomb-Guy or Bomb-Sylar detonates nearby. We've already seen that Hiro sees the blast wave and scrunches his eyes shut, and it's safe to assume that he makes it out. It is also a good assumption that, in a normal timeline, Hiro

- gets visited by himself
- sees the blast wave
and then
- visits himself

But we can't be sure that visiting himself is his first stop after the blast. In a panic, he could end up teleporting to damn near anywhen.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 10:22 PM
Where does he get the sword then? Does he stop in the middle ages first?

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:28 PM
Where does he get the sword then? Does he stop in the middle ages first?

It's a katana.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 10:29 PM
Where does he get the sword then? Does he stop in the middle ages first?
Ebay, most likely.

Seriously, he could get it anywhere and anytime (after steel and swords have been invented, anyway). I'm sure people will be freezing the frame and analyzing whether it's a katana or a scimitar or a longsword or whatever else, which could narrow down the possibilities somewhat.

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 10:33 PM
Still he teleports to the age of the dinosaurs? I just don't see it happening.

Wile E
12-04-2006, 10:36 PM
I got a katana a few weeks ago at a fantasy/sci fi convention for $25. But I don't think I'd want to go up against a dinosaur with it.

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:37 PM
Ebay, most likely.

Seriously, he could get it anywhere and anytime (after steel and swords have been invented, anyway). I'm sure people will be freezing the frame and analyzing whether it's a katana or a scimitar or a longsword or whatever else, which could narrow down the possibilities somewhat.

I don't know how clear the painting was but he was wearing a katana when he met Peter on the subway.

running piglet cheese
12-04-2006, 10:44 PM
Great Episode!!
Does anyone have any ideas as to what went on in Peter's jail cell when he was talking to Nathan who suddenly turned into Sylar? Did any of that conversation actually take place or was he dreaming the whole thing?

Who was Mohinder talking to on the phone about the list?

Does Hiro, Ando and Isaac now think the cheerleader is dead so they have failed to save the world? (Count me in with those who are frustrated with the subtitles, go by too fast and the white color makes reading it even harder.)

DocCathode
12-04-2006, 10:50 PM
Who was Mohinder talking to on the phone about the list?

Presumably American legal authorities. He sounded like he was trying to get the police to protect those on the list.

Loach
12-04-2006, 10:52 PM
Great Episode!!
Does anyone have any ideas as to what went on in Peter's jail cell when he was talking to Nathan who suddenly turned into Sylar? Did any of that conversation actually take place or was he dreaming the whole thing?

Who was Mohinder talking to on the phone about the list?

Does Hiro, Ando and Isaac now think the cheerleader is dead so they have failed to save the world? (Count me in with those who are frustrated with the subtitles, go by too fast and the white color makes reading it even harder.)

Mohinder was talking to the FBI. They were giving him the run around. He metioned talking to Quantico which is closely associated with the FBI although it is their training center as far as I know.

HazelNutCoffee
12-04-2006, 11:40 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on what might happen with Claire, now that she's found out about her AED? I am very curious as to what the Haitian's story might be.

Carnick
12-05-2006, 12:25 AM
Has Peter been around the radioactive man? His sickness reminded me of radiation sickness.

BobT
12-05-2006, 12:31 AM
The scene of Peter's vision was filmed several months ago in Los Angeles (it was Grand Avenue and Sixth Street). Now I understand, why traffic was so bad.

The Nathan Petrelli Campaign Headquarters were a Social Security Administration office today. That storefront is left empty because its owner must be able to get a lot of money for it for filming purposes.

Kamino Neko
12-05-2006, 12:41 AM
I got a katana a few weeks ago at a fantasy/sci fi convention for $25. But I don't think I'd want to go up against a dinosaur with it.

Heh. Hell, I wouldn't be comfortable trusting my life to a blade that cost a few hundred. I'd be looking at multiple thousands of bucks before I'd trust it to do more than look cool.

Mr Bennet, I will say, is Not Evil - but the road to Hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions - and he's making a lot of mistakes and thus trundling merrily down that well-paved road. I'm glad the Hatian seems to have a better idea of what's going down. Or else the Hatian really IS evil.

I'll miss Eden, but it was a good way to go out.

About Peter's dream at the end - it really feels symbolic, but there's some interesting points suggesting valid information. If it were purely symbolic, it would probably just include people he knew, but Niki, DL, Micah, and Hiro, none of whom he's met (and he's not even heard of Niki, DL, or Micah) are present. Still, though, I don't think it's LITERAL, just there's real information to be drawn out of it without interpreting the symbolism.

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 12:46 AM
Has Peter been around the radioactive man? His sickness reminded me of radiation sickness.
They've never met.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 01:50 AM
Boy, I'm really gonna have to watch this one again.

Eden had been living next door to Mohinder-dad for awhile, and had met Sylar? She really was friends with papa Suresh? Apparently Eden and AED knew about Sylar, but didn't do anything about him until he started killing?

I think AED relies on Haitian way too much, and Haitian is the reason AED struts around super-types so confidently. Haitian is evidently the only reason people can't use their powers at the facility (did Eden call it the reservation?). She should have realized it's really stupid to get close to Sylar when Haitian isn't on premises. Then again, is Eden really dead? Probably but the previews shows Sylar lying on the floor like he didn't get away.

Heh, I totally guessed right about why Claire's mom is such a ditz. Anyone who claims AED isn't still ambiguously evil explain how he can have his wife's brain wiped so many times.

Haitian pretty clearly seems to have his own agenda and I bet even AED doesn't know he can talk. But what the heck is Haitian up to? Why is it important Claire keep her memory and not let dad know?

Can Haitian restore memory once he's wiped it? That really sucks about Ambiguously Gay Zach.

What the heck is going on with Peter? Hello? That Sanjog Lyer kid is the dream walker. He's headed for a power overload, similar to what AED said was happening to Sylar? Maybe it's his brief exposure to Sylar's multiple powers that are causing Peter's sickness. In his vision he didn't have a scar yet, for whatever that's worth.

Why do bullets "not work" on Sylar? The telekinesis or something else?

They're spending way too much time on Niki. I really don't care about her storyline or how she could possibly fit into the greater scheme of things.

bouv
12-05-2006, 04:19 AM
Theory about the nuke explosion: Who ever explodes (Peter, Sylar, or actual Nuke guy (forgot his name already,)) I'm guessing that Nathan will save the day, and it will pretty much be his one act as a hero. He will notice who ever it is about to go thermo-nuclear, and then grab them and fly as fast as he fucking can straight up.


You heard it here first.

RikWriter
12-05-2006, 06:11 AM
If it's a cite, then make it a cite. You wrote it like you just made it up. If you got the information from somewhere then say something like, "I read this on TVguide.com....[spoilerbox]" They way you put it there was no way to know if you were pulling out of your ass or if it was a spoiler. A little clue before hand as to if it is a real spoiler would be nice to those who don't want to be spoiled.


Then you should have ASKED where I got it rather than posting it out in the open first. You screwed up so don't try to blame someone else for it. The source was spoilerfix.com.

Otto
12-05-2006, 06:24 AM
Theory about the nuke explosion: Who ever explodes (Peter, Sylar, or actual Nuke guy (forgot his name already,)) I'm guessing that Nathan will save the day, and it will pretty much be his one act as a hero. He will notice who ever it is about to go thermo-nuclear, and then grab them and fly as fast as he fucking can straight up.


You heard it here first.
Actually you heard it here third, since I posted this theory weeks ago and reposted it yesterday in the "Six Months Ago" thread.

kurilla
12-05-2006, 07:45 AM
The questions I have as of the end of this episode:

(1) Who's AED working for? He's gotten "marching orders" from someone -- and while we don't know whether he agrees with those orders (I'm thinking not), we do know that he's not willing to go against them like Eden was.

(2) Who's the Haitian working for? Conversely, if he really is only working for AED, why has he kept some unknown but presumably important things from AED? As a subquestion, why does he want everyone to think he's mute?

(3) How is Jessica going to react to the fact that she hurt her/Niki's son? She has claimed to be acting to protect him in the past (and even in this episode), but hurting him is a bad way of protecting him.

(4) Peter apparently has two separate powers -- spotty precognition (i.e., dreams and visions) and power mimicry. Aside from Sylar, is he the only one with two powers?


Plot conjectures:

(1) Assuming Mohinder was talking to the FBI, he should be getting a visit from Matt and Audrey in the near future.

(2) Niki is turning out not to be quite as shallow as we thought she was (though she's still far from deep or intelligent). She's absolutely right when she says she can't be trusted, although how a rural Utah town is going to keep super-strong Jessica in jail is a good question. I suspect Jessica's going to walk out of prison (although differently than DL did) at the first opportunity.

(3) The mistakes AED is making seem to me to be mostly in the form of over-reacting where Claire's concerned. Like his sending the Haitian to mindwipe Claire -- when she's just going to figure out that she has powers all over again at some point. Maybe he's mindwiped her before? If so, something's different about this time, because the Haitian refused to do it.

(4) If Nathan does fly the radioactive exploding person (whoever it turns out to be) out to sea, I suspect he'll survive the action so he can win in a landslide. It would be nicely ironic if this man who apparently despises the thought of superpowers wins only because of them.

And on that nicely symmetric note, I'll conclude by saying that was a very good episode, one of the better ones, and a nice antidote to last week's fluffiness (aside from Hiro).

friedo
12-05-2006, 08:25 AM
(4) Peter apparently has two separate powers -- spotty precognition (i.e., dreams and visions) and power mimicry. Aside from Sylar, is he the only one with two powers?


I think the Hatian Dude (who I have a strong urge to call "Eight-Ball") qualifies. Power-blocking and mind-wiping.

D_Odds
12-05-2006, 08:26 AM
I think the Hatian Dude (who I have a strong urge to call "Eight-Ball") qualifies. Power-blocking and mind-wiping.
Niki / Jessica: Body-switching and super strength

N9IWP
12-05-2006, 08:40 AM
I won't get a DVR because I have no interest in sending off marketing information to the people who sell them. Give me one that isn't also a snitch and I'll gladly use it.

There are DVD recorders that have a hard drive. They get program information off the air. Not as user-friendly as TiVo, but its free (there are some spots reserved for ads but I've yet to see one) and no information can get back (well, not practically). Most of the time I just record to the HD and erase, but you can also archive shows to DVD.

Brian

Dewey Finn
12-05-2006, 08:55 AM
I thought the previews said someone was going to the dark side, but I can't remember who did that last night, unless it was the Haitian. Does anyone know?

Slacker
12-05-2006, 09:08 AM
I thought the previews said someone was going to the dark side, but I can't remember who did that last night, unless it was the Haitian. Does anyone know?
I recall teasing about a hero being "lost" (aka dead), but nothing about the dark side.

Ethilrist
12-05-2006, 09:13 AM
We also saw GhostDad come clear through the wall in the first fight in Niki's house.

I had been wondering something about Sylar's cell--they may have made it immune to outgoing telekinetic force. He broke the window by grabbing Eden and yanking her into the glass hard enough to break it, which they might not have expected him to be able to do.

Hiro and Ando need to find a way to convince the truly tripping Isaac to just use the sketchbook rather than take all that time doing those fully-detailed color paintings. He'd get a lot more precognition done in a lot less time.

Maybe Peter's power weakens him? He hasn't used them much, and usually a few days apart. In the past day, he's been exposed to Claire, Sylar, Matt, Bennett (assuming he has powers)... oh, and his brother. He's OD'ing on superpowers.

Otto
12-05-2006, 09:14 AM
The mistakes AED is making seem to me to be mostly in the form of over-reacting where Claire's concerned. Like his sending the Haitian to mindwipe Claire -- when she's just going to figure out that she has powers all over again at some point.
I don't think the Haitian was going to remove Claire's knowledge of her powers, but rather her memories of having told anyone about them. Whcih even if the Haitian had followed through would have been ineffective because AED doesn't know that she told Peter.

Niki / Jessica: Body-switching and super strength
There's no evidence that Niki-as-Niki has any superpowers. Jessica appears to be the result of "MPD" or a dissociative disorder, not a superpower.

Unintentional moment of hilarity last nght: Claire asks Lyle how he got home from practice and they did that wickedly overdramatic pan-zoom thing on his face when he answered.

gigi
12-05-2006, 09:17 AM
(1) Who's AED working for? He's gotten "marching orders" from someone -- and while we don't know whether he agrees with those orders (I'm thinking not), we do know that he's not willing to go against them like Eden was.This was one of my questions too, as well as how Isaac was able to leave and meet Hiro. I thought he was being kept locked up for them to monitor his visions?

My favorite was Hiro's friend "It's destiny!" "I was kind of hoping destiny had lost our number."

Otto
12-05-2006, 09:24 AM
This was one of my questions too, as well as how Isaac was able to leave and meet Hiro. I thought he was being kept locked up for them to monitor his visions?
Eden let him go.

JXJohns
12-05-2006, 09:46 AM
There's no evidence that Niki-as-Niki has any superpowers. Jessica appears to be the result of "MPD" or a dissociative disorder, not a superpower.

Jessica has crazy strength as witnessed by her ability to rip people apart. I would predict... for what it's worth, that Niki will somehow be able to tap into that strength .

D_Odds
12-05-2006, 09:49 AM
There's no evidence that Niki-as-Niki has any superpowers. Jessica appears to be the result of "MPD" or a dissociative disorder, not a superpower.Are you positing that it is a Hulk-type scenario? I'm not saying yea or nay to your theory, just curious. Personally, it being a superhero show, I was figuring two distinct people vying for one body, not a fractured psyche.

Cuckoorex
12-05-2006, 09:51 AM
For the record, the dinosaur depicted in the painting is, in fact, a Carnotaurus.

If this show actually has a scene with Hiro swordfighting with a Carnotaurus, I will declare it the best show in the history of television.

Lissa
12-05-2006, 09:52 AM
I don't think the Haitian was going to remove Claire's knowledge of her powers, but rather her memories of having told anyone about them. Whcih even if the Haitian had followed through would have been ineffective because AED doesn't know that she told Peter.

I don't know that he could actually be that selective. Every time he's wiped a memory, he's taken out a complete time period, not just specific incidents. (When he wiped Zach's mind, he took away all memories of their renewed friendship, not just his knowledge of Claire's powers.)

Draelin
12-05-2006, 09:57 AM
Are you positing that it is a Hulk-type scenario? I'm not saying yea or nay to your theory, just curious. Personally, it being a superhero show, I was figuring two distinct people vying for one body, not a fractured psyche.
Well, it seems to be Hulk-like, at this point. Niki is an average, everyday, moderately annoying work-from-home mom. Jessica rips people in half. I find it hard to believe that the mechanism that makes Jessica strong is entirely mental--Niki's body has to be capable of the super-strength, she just can't access it. Maybe Jessica blocks her deliberately, maybe Niki just doesn't have the right rage. But it seems to me that if Niki can defeat Jessica, she can plot a route through her brain to the Super Strength Depository.

As for the multiple personality angle--Jessica claims that she's been inside Niki all along, since her own death. Whereas all the other heroes didn't develop their powers until late spring of 2006. I think the ability is hardwired, if you will, to Niki's body--if they were twins (which I have assumed they were, but I could be wrong), it stands to reason that Jessica would have had the same ability, had she survived--and it will still be there even if Jessica is gone. But while all the other heroes have slowly come to terms with their abilities, or at least noticed them, Niki never did, because Jessica got to them first.

I think that last paragraph was unnecessarily convoluted, but I tried. :)

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 10:28 AM
I thought the previews said someone was going to the dark side, but I can't remember who did that last night, unless it was the Haitian. Does anyone know?
The interview at tvguide.com said that one of the heroes would start working for AED. I didn't see that happen yesterday but maybe it'll happen on Jan 22.

Otto
12-05-2006, 11:10 AM
Are you positing that it is a Hulk-type scenario?
More like a Crazy Jane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Jane) scenario.

For the record, the dinosaur depicted in the painting is, in fact, a Carnotaurus.
Lois the Carnotaurus it is!


I don't know that he could actually be that selective. Every time he's wiped a memory, he's taken out a complete time period, not just specific incidents. (When he wiped Zach's mind, he took away all memories of their renewed friendship, not just his knowledge of Claire's powers.)
When he wiped Brody McRapist (under instruction to "hollow him out") he seemed to clear just Brody's memories of Claire. Brody still knew how to speak English for example and seemed to be able to function in a school setting. It's still up in the air for me whether he can wipe specific memories or not.

As for the multiple personality angle--Jessica claims that she's been inside Niki all along, since her own death. Whereas all the other heroes didn't develop their powers until late spring of 2006.
All of the heroes we know about, you mean. AED indicated that Claire's birth mother was powered and that would've been some 15 years ago. Assuming he was telling the truth of course. But even if he wasn't, absent some as yet unrevealed New Universe-style "White Event" six months ago it doesn't make sense that powers that are supposed to be genetically based would all only suddenly start manifesting within days of each other in a genetically diverse population.

astro
12-05-2006, 11:16 AM
For the record, the dinosaur depicted in the painting is, in fact, a Carnotaurus.

If this show actually has a scene with Hiro swordfighting with a Carnotaurus, I will declare it the best show in the history of television.

That did make me laugh. Out loud even!

FlightlessBird
12-05-2006, 11:24 AM
(4) Peter apparently has two separate powers -- spotty precognition (i.e., dreams and visions) and power mimicry. Aside from Sylar, is he the only one with two powers?Hiro can bend space AND time.

If you follow the interactive novels on the nbc.com website. I think this weeks is the best one to date. Plus give some information that would solve some questions I'm seeing in this thread including
Eden is dead, AED goes to her father's and tells him. Plus I think a major spoiler so stop reading now if you don't want a little more....
...
...
AED and Mindblower walk in on Sylar killing Eden and subdue him

JXJohns
12-05-2006, 11:38 AM
Hiro can bend space AND time.

If you follow the interactive novels on the nbc.com website. I think this weeks is the best one to date. Plus give some information that would solve some questions I'm seeing in this thread including...

As well as...

It appears that Haitian guy may be able to be more selective in his mind wipe if he is able to "leave the guilt" as AED requests.

Also, has anyone found any "hidden surprises" in any of the interactive novels besides the stories themselves?

bouv
12-05-2006, 11:47 AM
Also, has anyone found any "hidden surprises" in any of the interactive novels besides the stories themselves?

In this weeks, I clicked on the first page (cause for some reason I was in 'PDF' mode and was trying to "grab" the page to move it down,) and in doing so, it linked to a picture that Isaac painted of the burning man. Makes me wonder if any other comics have hidden things...

MaxTheVool
12-05-2006, 12:07 PM
Theory about the nuke explosion: Who ever explodes (Peter, Sylar, or actual Nuke guy (forgot his name already,)) I'm guessing that Nathan will save the day, and it will pretty much be his one act as a hero. He will notice who ever it is about to go thermo-nuclear, and then grab them and fly as fast as he fucking can straight up.


You heard it here first.

And as he does, he will say "suuuuuu-peeeeeer-maaaaaaaan".



Btw, Hiro referencing A Sound of Thunder was perfect and hilarious.

kurilla
12-05-2006, 12:09 PM
Hiro can bend space AND time.

Which are part of the same continuum, right? (Not a physics major, not by a long shot.) If so, then I wouldn't consider that separate powers. Yes, I'm being nitpicky. It's my job.

FlightlessBird
12-05-2006, 12:21 PM
Well in terms of powers he seems to be able to stop time, and travel through time. In evidence, he is having difficulty traveling through time, but not so much trouble stopping time.
Being a nit, it's my job ;)

kurilla
12-05-2006, 12:24 PM
Well in terms of powers he seems to be able to stop time, and travel through time. In evidence, he is having difficulty traveling through time, but not so much trouble stopping time.
Being a nit, it's my job ;)

Mmm... I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I see both stopping time and manipulating (traveling through) time as aspects of one broader power. That may be overly general, though, and if so, then I'll change my statement. (I may be a nitpicker, but I'm not completely stubborn. ;) )

JThunder
12-05-2006, 12:25 PM
Which are part of the same continuum, right?
Space and time are both part of the (ahem) space-time continuum, but their properties are not identical. If one could bend space, it doesn't necessarily follow that one could bend time, or vice versa.

RikWriter
12-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Btw, Hiro referencing A Sound of Thunder was perfect and hilarious.

It was indeed. Although I couldn't help but think "Why are you worrying? You already said that you couldn't change the past."

Rhiannon8404
12-05-2006, 12:33 PM
Also, has anyone found any "hidden surprises" in any of the interactive novels besides the stories themselves?

Yes, in some, but not in all.

FlightlessBird
12-05-2006, 12:47 PM
Yes, in some, but not in all.
Can you tell me how to find them? I've been reading the novels, and never saw any hidden things.

E-Sabbath
12-05-2006, 01:37 PM
Ah, but did you see how he greeted Mystery Sock?
\\//

mazinger_z
12-05-2006, 01:43 PM
To clear things up:

Eden shot herself because her botched assasination attempt on Sylar left her vulnerable to Sylar to steal her power. (Pretty damn cool scene, too).

AED still remains ambiguously evil: mindwiping your family isn't the act of love one finds of a good guy.

The Haitian is thought to be mute because Eden says he can't talk, but he actually can.

Hiro is fighting a Carnotaurus with a katanna (other than a lightsabre, my preferred sword of choice).

Here's what I think (yes, conjecture) how this happens:
Hiro goes back in time to save someone. This time he causes a rift that he mentions to Peter in the subway. This sends Hiro to the past where he has to fight a dinosaur. He then might step on a bug which causes donuts not exist anymore (but in a cruel twist of irony, rain now becomes donuts).

Rhiannon8404
12-05-2006, 01:45 PM
Can you tell me how to find them? I've been reading the novels, and never saw any hidden things.
If you click on the pages of the comic itself (not the Nissan ad), and provided there is actually a hidden picture, it will pop up.

Morbo
12-05-2006, 01:59 PM
I had been wondering something about Sylar's cell--they may have made it immune to outgoing telekinetic force. He broke the window by grabbing Eden and yanking her into the glass hard enough to break it, which they might not have expected him to be able to do.

My understanding was that Eden (foolishly) disabled whatever force field security system was retaining his powers when she typed on that keypad. Once Syler felt her giving him her power of suggestion, he knew he could use his powers again.

Kinda sneaky of them IMO, as I was led to believe that Eden made Syler sleep in the previous episode, when I now see that it was the Haitian guy blocking Syler's power to block her power.

When he wiped Brody McRapist (under instruction to "hollow him out") he seemed to clear just Brody's memories of Claire. Brody still knew how to speak English for example and seemed to be able to function in a school setting. It's still up in the air for me whether he can wipe specific memories or not.

And Zach of course knew how to get to the football field, and knew that Claire might be setting him up as some sort of "cheerleader initiation."

ouryL
12-05-2006, 02:03 PM
So now Peter is having flashes of the future? Why? Is his power fuzzier then just mimicing other heros' power?

Perhaps his mimicry is semi-permanent :eek: :eek:

Zakalwe
12-05-2006, 02:16 PM
Ah, but did you see how he greeted Mystery Sock?
\\//Yeah, that was great. My first thought though was "Why did Isaac have to take Greyhound? Wasn't he just like 10-15 minutes away?

JXJohns
12-05-2006, 02:28 PM
Yeah, that was great. My first thought though was "Why did Isaac have to take Greyhound? Wasn't he just like 10-15 minutes away?

Midland and Odessa are about 25 miles apart.

Otto
12-05-2006, 02:35 PM
My understanding was that Eden (foolishly) disabled whatever force field security system was retaining his powers when she typed on that keypad. Once Syler felt her giving him her power of suggestion, he knew he could use his powers again.
I'm not sure where anyone's getting the idea that Sylar's powers were dampened by anything while he was in the cell away from the Haitian. No one said anything to that effect that I can recall.

Kinda sneaky of them IMO, as I was led to believe that Eden made Syler sleep in the previous episode, when I now see that it was the Haitian guy blocking Syler's power to block her power.
The sequence was that Sylar met her in the woods and started to attack but she got the drop on him with her Bene Gesserit witchery ("You don't want to hurt me"). She was able to delay him long enough to let the Haitian get the drop on him, or I suppose it's possible (since according to the online comic she can make peoples' hearts stop by telling them to die, which, whatever) that her power and the Haitian's were working in conjunction.

My theory is that her power was diffused by speaking throuh the intercom, which allowed Syler to resist long enough to pull her in. Once he had his hand on her throat she couldn't speak.

Tangent
12-05-2006, 02:36 PM
If you click on the pages of the comic itself (not the Nissan ad), and provided there is actually a hidden picture, it will pop up.


And make sure you are viewing the comic online. If you downloand the PDF versions and view those, there are no hidden links.

Morbo
12-05-2006, 02:43 PM
I'm not sure where anyone's getting the idea that Sylar's powers were dampened by anything while he was in the cell away from the Haitian. No one said anything to that effect that I can recall.

Well then why put him in that cell at all? Why not have him in the same room that Eden was brought into, as long as the Haitian can disable him?

The sequence was that Sylar met her in the woods and started to attack but she got the drop on him with her Bene Gesserit witchery ("You don't want to hurt me"). She was able to delay him long enough to let the Haitian get the drop on him, or I suppose it's possible (since according to the online comic she can make peoples' hearts stop by telling them to die, which, whatever) that her power and the Haitian's were working in conjunction.

That's what confused me. Her witchery worked on him once but not a second time....

My theory is that her power was diffused by speaking throuh the intercom, which allowed Syler to resist long enough to pull her in. Once he had his hand on her throat she couldn't speak.

...which this explains, I guess. That's as good as my theory anyway. I'm starting to think we're putting more thought into this particular plot point than they did.

D_Odds
12-05-2006, 02:59 PM
That's what confused me. Her witchery worked on him once but not a second time....In the woods, he was still pretty busted up from his fall.

Rhiannon8404
12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
In the woods, he was still pretty busted up from his fall.
Also, I imagine he did not expect to see anyone in the woods and when he ran into Eden, he may not have known she had any powers or what they were.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 03:11 PM
I don't know that he could actually be that selective. Every time he's wiped a memory, he's taken out a complete time period, not just specific incidents. (When he wiped Zach's mind, he took away all memories of their renewed friendship, not just his knowledge of Claire's powers.)I'm pretty sure he can be fairly precise in what he wipes if he wants to. He took Claire's brother's memories of discovering Claire's powers which would go back a little while, but he still remembered practice that day. Just not how he got home.

He block-erased a whole day from Matt's mind, yet curiously enough, left the memory of himself being the last thing Matt remembers from the bar. Sneaky Haitian.

I'm not sure why he erased Zach's memories of Claire so far back, but it would appear Zach remembers everything else he's done since sixth grade. Zach's going to figure out something's up when he's sitting around with his nerd friends and the subject of his having campaigned for Claire's Homecoming Queen election comes up. "I did what, for Claire??"

I wonder what interesting things Haitian has learned from picking through people's brains all these years? Kinda makes sense now why he chooses not to talk. He can keep a lot of that information to himself, assuming AED doesn't require detailed typewritten reports.

4) Peter apparently has two separate powers -- spotty precognition (i.e., dreams and visions) and power mimicry. Aside from Sylar, is he the only one with two powers?In a way Nathan must have a kind of bullet-proofness in order to fly at supersonic speeds.

So why is it every time a telepath concentrates really hard they get a nosebleed? What's that supposed to mean? Doesn't seem very healthy.

One thing I'm not clear on. Did Sylar break the glass and then pull Eden though it? Seems like if that were bullet-proof glass pulling Eden through it hard enough to shatter it would have killed her instantly, wouldn't it?

That's what confused me. Her witchery worked on him once but not a second time...I wonder if her power even worked on Sylar that first time. haitian seems to give off an interference field all the time and I'm guessing it was Sylar realizing his TK wasn't working which caused him to drop his hand, not Eden's witchery.

Loach
12-05-2006, 03:12 PM
Then you should have ASKED where I got it rather than posting it out in the open first. You screwed up so don't try to blame someone else for it. The source was spoilerfix.com.

Maybe you should read a little closer. I did not post it out in the open or in spoiler boxes. I didn't post it at all. I was merely commenting on your snippy reply to Otto. I didn't screw up and neither did he. You posted something that appeared to be purely conjecture. Sure you put it in a spoiler box but there was nothing to indicate that you had any real information. Spoiler boxes are over used, a little warning in the clear works much better. Otherwise how would anyone know that they shouldn't look at the spoiler box. There is a difference between:

I think Peter is going to hook up with Niki!!!!!!

and

The producer was drunk and blurted out to TVguide that everyone dies in the last episode.

It's just not possible to tell the difference without reading it, which defeats the purpose.

And again, beyond my pet peeve about how the spoilers are used by everyone, the way you wrote it seemed like pure speculation. There was no way for Otto or anyone to know different.

JeffB
12-05-2006, 03:17 PM
(4) If Nathan does fly the radioactive exploding person (whoever it turns out to be) out to sea, I suspect he'll survive the action so he can win in a landslide. It would be nicely ironic if this man who apparently despises the thought of superpowers wins only because of them.The problem with this is that when Hiro traveled to New York in the future he saw the newspaper headline that Nathan had won. The explosion came after that.

I'm not sure where anyone's getting the idea that Sylar's powers were dampened by anything while he was in the cell away from the Haitian. No one said anything to that effect that I can recall.I don't think it was explicitly mention in the show, but what else would account for Sylar still be in the cell?

Wile E
12-05-2006, 03:18 PM
Sylar also knew what Eden's power was by this time and maybe was braced for it enough to be able to resist long enough to do something.

But why the hell was that glass window actual glass? Shouldn't it have been bulletproof and unbreakable?


Re: Niki
There has to be more than just DID going on because back when she killed the guys in the garage she was wearing the same clothes as before and she had no blood on her but her mirror image (Jessica) was covered in blood. I suppose they could just be playing with us and that was all in her mind but there is also the matter of the disappearing tatoo. Perhaps Jessica was her twin and has the power to separate out her soul or essence and live inside another person (like many originally conjectured that DL was able to do) and Niki has the super strength. So when Jessica's body died she did have to live inside Niki. Because Jessica can take over control of Niki's body she can also control Niki's powers.


I had another wild theory about Peter but I already forgot it.

Ethilrist
12-05-2006, 03:27 PM
I don't think it was explicitly mention in the show, but what else would account for Sylar still be in the cell?
... and people just idly chatting with him, given what they know about his powers...

Hey, free health care. They patched him up and give him a place to crash while he healed up. Without any police interaction, which would have interfered with his plans. This way, he knows they're going to parade superheroes past him 24/7, kind of like when they bring the dessert tray by in a fancy restaurant.

D_Odds
12-05-2006, 03:29 PM
I don't think it was explicitly mention in the show, but what else would account for Sylar still be in the cell?Have we gotten an indication of just how strong his TK is? If it is line of sight and not strong enough to get through metal, how would he otherwise get out (assuming he's been dampened every time AED is present)?

astro
12-05-2006, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure where anyone's getting the idea that Sylar's powers were dampened by anything while he was in the cell away from the Haitian. No one said anything to that effect that I can recall.

.

You're forgetting that the Haitian went traveling with AED during the police interview with his daughter and while Syler was back at the security compound. There has to be some way of restraining Skyler while he's away.

Morbo
12-05-2006, 03:35 PM
I wonder if her power even worked on Sylar that first time. haitian seems to give off an interference field all the time and I'm guessing it was Sylar realizing his TK wasn't working which caused him to drop his hand, not Eden's witchery.

That was my original theory (Post #136). I was responding to Otto's modified theory. (Post #140)

Charlie Tan
12-05-2006, 03:36 PM
I see a lot of hostility in this thread (does that mean the terrorists won?) and was hoping we could all get along. If I dare make a suggestion:

Otto: Since you seem to be the weekly thread starter and one of the most active posters in the threads about the show, couldn't you set up some rules, like we have in the LOST and BSG threads?

Oh, and Otto, some free advice: YOU can easily build a DVR/PVR into your computer and have full controll. Get a tv card and it will be smooth and sweet.

I do hope Tim Kring has been following the development of LOST and know that he shouldn't try to string us along, now that he's got a hit show going. Deliver on the mysteries and create new adventures, don't drag it out.


Is Hiro the most unlikely new favorite on tv ever? Will he get an Emmy next year?

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 03:42 PM
I don't think it was explicitly mention in the show, but what else would account for Sylar still be in the cell?During his first discussion with Sylar and Sylar began to move towards him AED said "oh, no. No, you'll find your abilities won't work. Not here. You're not going anywhere."

It's AED's standard technique with uncooperative super-types. Convince them they can't use their powers at the facility but don't let them know it's Haitian. After a few attempts at using their powers they believe AED and it becomes safer to deal with them even if Haitian isn't there all the time. It's the same technique he used with Eden initially.

Loach
12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
Is Hiro the most unlikely new favorite on tv ever? Will he get an Emmy next year?

I hadn't even thought of that but now that I am, I like the idea. I can't think of anyone more deserving on TV right now.

As for the speculation about a force field or something that stopped Sylar. I don't think so. As with everything else that has happened, the least unlikely scenerio is the truth. Every wild speculation so far has been off. This isn't a very twisty show, it's pretty straight forward. Sylar did kill Charlie, it wasn't an anuerism. D.L. did not phase as soon as the bullet hit him. He was shot but Jessica is a bad shot. In this case I think the explaination is just as simple. There was no forcefield or anything else holding him in. They just underestimated how strong he is. Up to the point that Eden screws up a combination of Eden, the Haitian and his injuries have kept him inside(maybe they drugged him too). He has recovered enough to fight back now. Just my theory.

DocCathode
12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
RE Brody

IIRC He didn't remember his own name. Which seemed to imply that the Haitian had taken ALL of his memories. He still has learned skills (including speech) but no memories of anything before waking up in the hospital.

N9IWP
12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
I vote for Lost style rules:

Everything, including this weeks episode and next weeks preview is open (not in spoiler boxes)

Advance information (TV guide, Entertainment weekly, etc) should be put in spoiler boxes

Speculation that doesn't rely on spoilers is open.

Speculation based on spoilers should be put in spoiler boxes.

Is the comic book considered spoiler material?

Brian

Lissa
12-05-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm not sure why he erased Zach's memories of Claire so far back, but it would appear Zach remembers everything else he's done since sixth grade.

That's what threw me. It seems unnecessarily cruel to delete the entire friendship. Why would AED have that taken away from her when he has to know how much Zach means to Claire. (He's been over at the house many times and he was supposedly the only person with whom Claire shared her secret.) Seems like if the Hatian could be selective, AED would just say, "Take out everything about her powers, but don't take away their friendship."

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 05:49 PM
That's what threw me. It seems unnecessarily cruel to delete the entire friendship. Why would AED have that taken away from her when he has to know how much Zach means to Claire. (He's been over at the house many times and he was supposedly the only person with whom Claire shared her secret.) Seems like if the Hatian could be selective, AED would just say, "Take out everything about her powers, but don't take away their friendship."
But wasn't the basis of their renewed friendship the fact that Claire found out about her powers?

Otto
12-05-2006, 06:27 PM
I hadn't even thought of that but now that I am, I like the idea. I can't think of anyone more deserving on TV right now.
Michael C. Hall as Dexter Morgan on Showtime's Dexter. Imparts more characterization with a curl of his lower lip than Hiro has in the entire season.

Rhiannon8404
12-05-2006, 06:29 PM
Is the comic book considered spoiler material?
I would say not. It's meant to be viewed along with the show.

Rhiannon8404
12-05-2006, 06:32 PM
But wasn't the basis of their renewed friendship the fact that Claire found out about her powers?
I think it was. She needed someone not of her clique who to video tape her. Still it does seem so sad that she's lost her one true friend. Maybe she can rebuild it now that she knows how to be a nice person.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 06:36 PM
That's what threw me. It seems unnecessarily cruel to delete the entire friendship. Why would AED have that taken away from her when he has to know how much Zach means to Claire. (He's been over at the house many times and he was supposedly the only person with whom Claire shared her secret.) Seems like if the Hatian could be selective, AED would just say, "Take out everything about her powers, but don't take away their friendship."The more I think about it, Haitian only had to take Zach & Claire's friendship back two weeks, which is when she recruited him to videotape her new powers. Prior to that, he was just a geek she'd been a bitch to since 6th grade because he's a geek and she's popular.

Also, it's not really cruel to take away the friendship since AED had given orders to take away Claire's knowledge of the friendship too. If Claire can't remember telling Zach about her abilities, then she'd be conflicted as to why she's suddenly best friends with a geek.

Lissa
12-05-2006, 06:37 PM
Also, it's not really cruel to take away the friendship since AED had given orders to take away Claire's knowledge of the friendship too. If Claire can't remember telling Zach about her abilities, then she'd be conflicted as to why she's suddenly best friends with a geek.

Ah! Good point.

ouryL
12-05-2006, 06:47 PM
In the woods, he was still pretty busted up from his fall.

or perhaps Sylar figured out how to defeat her power and how to get around what was dampening his power.

RikWriter
12-05-2006, 06:55 PM
You posted something that appeared to be purely conjecture.

Wrong. I did not make it appear to be conjecture. You didn't read it carefully enough if you think that. Sorry I mistook you for Otto...but it's not your affair in that case and you should have stayed out of it. He was wrong and you're doubly wrong for getting involved in the whole argument when it didn't concern you.

Just Some Guy
12-05-2006, 06:59 PM
Okay this is my first chance to reply since I watched the episode last night and we're up to four pages. I've been through it but with this many replies its easy to miss something so I'm sorry if I hit someone else's points.

This episode should be a model for serial television: giving out a pile information that raises dozens of new questions at the same time will keep people talking until the next episode is on. Since there is just so much to talk about I'm breaking down comments by character.

Peter - I think most of us nerds knew the "bomb" was going to be a human being and Peter was my third choice right behind Sylar and Ted the Living Nuclear Reactor so that dream didn't come as a shock. Peter's dreams have had a fragment of truth in them before but not been the absolute truth so it may be the case where he's just seeing things incorrectly, but now we have a great hook for the second half of the season.

I think at this point Future Hiro's message to Peter doesn't mean what people were taking it to mean. I do not think "Save the world" means "Stop the explosion of New York" and I'm dubious that "the cheerleader" was Claire. Sylar learned a lot in this episode that may advance his agenda (more on that in a few moments), and it may have been Jackie's death that set that in motion. Claire was in the dream and the explosion still occurred.

Peter is probably going to survive this. Remember that Future Hiro knows Peter has a scar so large that it made it difficult to identify him without it. Dream-Peter did not have the scar but its possible that if he does explode that he'll get the scar that way. Another alternative is that by making Sylar aware of Peter that Sylar is now going after him and Dream-Peter was actually Sylar who had taken Peter's brain (assuming that Peter has succeeded in changing the course of events).

Sylar - I'm not a big fan of the "you're too dangerous to live" line but it definitely applies in this case. Sylar's original power gives him an edge that Evil Dad hasn't considered (and in fairness he doesn't have the knowledge that us viewers do) and I doubt that the Hatian Mindwiper or any thing that they have to neutralize abilities could stop him for long. Sylar should be able to figure out how they're blocking him and sidestep it; and that's assuming that their blocking isn't targetted at one ability like his telekinesis.

It does look like Sylar has some form of telepathy. He picked up on Claire from Evil Dad during the interigation; remember that Sylar did not know who Claire was when he attacked her. And I think when Peter saw Sylar in his dreams it was Sylar communicating with him gathering information and Peter handed out an awful lot of it. The biggest thing being that Peter has abilities like Sylar's which will move him up to number one on the brain popping list.

Nikki/Jessica - I'm sticking to my theory that she has MPD rather than Jessica being part of the powers. That makes what is coming for her much more interesting. She needs psychiatric help and any lawyer representing her is going to push for an insanity defense, but when Jessica comes out I think that any doctor examining her is in trouble.

Hiro - The biggest question about Hiro now is will he be hurled back in time with a sword or will he have to fight a dinosaur in New York City. I've got my fingers crossed on the later. :)

Oh, and why isn't someone releasing Hiro action figures? You know they'd sell like hotcakes.

Nathan - We know he'll win by a landslide but is struggling in the polls right now. Unless Peter gets a pile of credit for saving Claire, I suspect he'll have to reveal his ability to fly in some heroic public act just before the election. He'll grab some falling baby or something.

Claire - She's still completely lost in the wilderness, but I suspect that her father's behavior is going to make her run away.

The Hatian - I'm really curious what his agenda actually is. My money is on that he can block or amplify abilities which has resulted in people leaving custody with their powers running out of control. The question would then be why.

Otto
12-05-2006, 07:06 PM
Remember that Future Hiro knows Peter has a scar so large that it made it difficult to identify him without it.
Well, no, we know that according to Future-Hiro that at some point Peter gets a scar and that Future-Hiro is so used to seeing Peter with it that he looks unfamiliar without it. Like how if you've only known someone with long hair seeing them with a buzzcut will probably give you a moment's confusion, or seeing someone after they've gained or lost a lot of weight. Nothing about the size of the scar.

It does look like Sylar has some form of telepathy. He picked up on Claire from Evil Dad during the interigation; remember that Sylar did not know who Claire was when he attacked her.
What interrogation are you talking about? Sylar attacked Jackie because she was the "hero cheerleader" from the paper. He found out about Claire after backhanding her in the locker room and seeing her heal.

Just Some Guy
12-05-2006, 07:41 PM
Yes, but he didn't know her name. She was just a second cheerleader and the one who happened to have powers. Sylar identifies Claire by name and calls her "your daughter" when Evil Dad interrogates him for the first time. It's pretty clear this is the first contact Evil Dad and Sylar have had during this interrogation so it's not like they've had a chance to mention it before.

It's at the eleven minute mark by my Tivo, complete with evil music sting when Sylar says "As soon as I get out I'm going to collect one more ability from your daughter." Sylar was definitely reading Evil Dad's mind at that point. Sylar had no way to know that Evil Dad and Claire were related. And if I recall the progression of events from last week correctly, Claire's identity was removed from the board before Sylar could get that (though it's not absolutely impossible that he could have gotten the name before).

MaxTheVool
12-05-2006, 07:52 PM
Michael C. Hall as Dexter Morgan on Showtime's Dexter. Imparts more characterization with a curl of his lower lip than Hiro has in the entire season.

He's the guy from Six Feet Under, right? He's a great actor.

Although of course Emmies don't always go to the most nuanced and convincing master-of-the-craft-of-acting performance. Nor should they, necessarily.

Morbo
12-05-2006, 08:09 PM
Sylar identifies Claire by name and calls her "your daughter" when Evil Dad interrogates him for the first time.

No, he doesn't.

I'll transcribe from the -6:21 minutes mark of Part 2 at nbc.com:

----------------------------------------

AED: "Turns out you're not so untouchable after all. Oh, no. No, you'll find your abilities won't work. Not here. You're not going anywhere, Gabriel."

Sylar: "My name is Sylar."

AED: "Now it is. Wasn't so long ago that you were Gabriel Gray. An insignificant watchmaker."

Sylar: "I restore timepieces. You know why I was so good at it?"

AED: "No, why don't you tell me?"

Sylar: "Because I can see how things work. What makes them....tick. Like you."

AED: "We're interested in how things work as well. Everyone else we've...met...has had only one ability - you've taken on several..."

Sylar: "I guess that's what makes me special."

AED: "It's important to you, isn't it? Being special?"

Sylar: "It's important to everyone."

AED: "I think you're insane. I think the infusion of so many alterations to your DNA has corrupted your mind. All this power is degrading you."

Sylar: "And yet here I am alive and well and as soon as I get out I'm going to collect one more ability from your daughter. Sweet...innocent..."

AED: "That's enough!"

Sylar: "....ripe...indestructible..."

AED: "I said, that's enough, Gabriel."

Sylar: ::Storms glass:: "MY NAME IS SYLAR!!"

AED: ::smiles, walks away, turns out lights::

----------------------------------------

So Sylar didn't mention her by the name Claire in that scene.

Loach
12-05-2006, 08:17 PM
Wrong. I did not make it appear to be conjecture. You didn't read it carefully enough if you think that. Sorry I mistook you for Otto...but it's not your affair in that case and you should have stayed out of it. He was wrong and you're doubly wrong for getting involved in the whole argument when it didn't concern you.

I read it carefully. It wasn't that difficult. I was just as involved as anyone else who read the post and I commented on it. Just like everyone else does in every thread. If you want to keep it private you should try email. If spoiler boxes weren't over used as much as they are then there wouldn't have been a problem with your post. Most of the boxes in this thread don't contain actual spoilers. As it was I couldn't tell if you were just guessing. I couldn't tell before I opened the box and I still couldn't tell after. If you are citing something then I think you should cite it. You disagree. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and I'm not going to change your mind. Feel free to comment more but I don't see any reason to continue the hijack.

Loach
12-05-2006, 08:20 PM
Michael C. Hall as Dexter Morgan on Showtime's Dexter. Imparts more characterization with a curl of his lower lip than Hiro has in the entire season.

I've heard good things but I didn't catch it. I'll probably wait for the DVD so I can see the whole season.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 08:22 PM
Peter's dreams have had a fragment of truth in them before but not been the absolute truth so it may be the case where he's just seeing things incorrectly, but now we have a great hook for the second half of the season.I agree with those who say the dream must be largely symbolic. He's seeing everyone who is important to him or is destined to become important to him. But Claire in her cheerleader outfit and Matt in his Telepacop uniform? Why would all those people be there in NY at the same time and dressed as they are. I'm not even convinced Peter is the one who explodes. For all we know, he's going Phoenix and he'll be the only one who can stop the real bomb.

It does look like Sylar has some form of telepathy. He picked up on Claire from Evil Dad during the interigation; remember that Sylar did not know who Claire was when he attacked her. And I think when Peter saw Sylar in his dreams it was Sylar communicating with him gathering information and Peter handed out an awful lot of it. The biggest thing being that Peter has abilities like Sylar's which will move him up to number one on the brain popping list.I'm a little confused about the sequence of events around this. AED meets Mohinder's dad then sends Eden to NY to get Claire's name off the list. Eden moves in next door while Sylar is developing his abilities. But did she ever take Claire's name off the list?

I've been assuming thus far Sylar has been hunting super-types based off the list of names he got from Mohinder Dad, so I assume that's why he went after Claire. If he was looking for someone named Claire, then he shouldn't have gone after Jackie just because he saw a newspaper clipping that said "hero."

But, if he really didn't know about Claire beforehand and it was just coincidence she was there, then it does seem Sylar has figured out quite a bit on his own. He knows her power and that Mr. Bennett is her dad. He almost said Claire's name before AED cut him off. How did he get that info?

Hiro - The biggest question about Hiro now is will he be hurled back in time with a sword or will he have to fight a dinosaur in New York City. I've got my fingers crossed on the later. :)
The thing about the dinosaur is Hiro doesn't really have to fight anything if he sees it coming and has time to freeze it. I almost see the dinosaur as a psychic attack of some kind he'll have to deal with. The dinosaur represents a fear he has about his power.

Nathan - We know he'll win by a landslide but is struggling in the polls right now. Unless Peter gets a pile of credit for saving Claire, I suspect he'll have to reveal his ability to fly in some heroic public act just before the election. He'll grab some falling baby or something.
But that would mean the greater public learns about super heroes. Do you think that's where the show is going?

The Hatian - I'm really curious what his agenda actually is.Me too. It appears he can dampen powers all around him, yet he let Nathan "up, up, and away!" Why'd he do that?

Loach
12-05-2006, 08:35 PM
I'm a little confused about the sequence of events around this. AED meets Mohinder's dad then sends Eden to NY to get Claire's name off the list. Eden moves in next door while Sylar is developing his abilities. But did she ever take Claire's name off the list?

I've been assuming thus far Sylar has been hunting super-types based off the list of names he got from Mohinder Dad, so I assume that's why he went after Claire. If he was looking for someone named Claire, then he shouldn't have gone after Jackie just because he saw a newspaper clipping that said "hero."

But, if he really didn't know about Claire beforehand and it was just coincidence she was there, then it does seem Sylar has figured out quite a bit on his own. He knows her power and that Mr. Bennett is her dad. He almost said Claire's name before AED cut him off. How did he get that info?



I don't know if I still have last weeks on my DVR but from memory I think that Eden was too late to go back and get Claire's name off the list. Sylar already had access to it. Wasn't she as surprised as Mohinder when they found the room with all the information?

One thing I have not mentioned is one of the biggest flaws I have seen in the show so far. I know I am nitpicking, after all it's a comicbook show. You can't expect the science to be perfect. I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief about Papa's research. Ok I can make my self believe that somehow he is able to track down a certain portion of DNA in certain people. I can see that he might know certain people have the potential for superpowers. How did he know how those powers would manifest themselves? How did he know CSI-guy had telekenetic powers?

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 09:19 PM
Perhaps the Haitian can only dampen powers connected to the mind (telepathy, telekenetics, etc). That would explain why Nathan's ability to fly remained unaffected.

Lissa
12-05-2006, 09:24 PM
AED: ::smiles, walks away, turns out lights::

Why did they keep turning off the lights? After Syklar's meal was delivered, they did the same thing. My memory ain't what it should be, but it seems like they had about three scenes where someone left the room and turned off the lights, leaving Sylar in the dark. Seems like it must have been important if they showed it to us again and again.

Is that part of the power-dampening? Like he gets his energy from some sort of photosynthesis?

DocCathode
12-05-2006, 09:26 PM
Why did they keep turning off the lights?

I think he just did it to show dominance/ be a pain in the ass.

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 09:42 PM
I think he just did it to show dominance/ be a pain in the ass.
Yeah, I don't think there's a whole lot of significance to the turning-off lights thing. Just to make the prisoner as uncomfortable as possible would be my guess.

Cuckoorex
12-05-2006, 09:47 PM
I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief about Papa's research. Ok I can make my self believe that somehow he is able to track down a certain portion of DNA in certain people. I can see that he might know certain people have the potential for superpowers. How did he know how those powers would manifest themselves? How did he know CSI-guy had telekenetic powers?

In the scenes with Gabriel/Sylar he indicated that he didn't know how these mutations would manifest. Sylar was "patient zero" and he seemed astounded by what Sylar was capable of.

DocCathode
12-05-2006, 09:49 PM
But Papa's notes indicated that whatsisface(Sylar's first victim) would be telekinetic.

Personally, I find prediction of abilities the most plausible bit of the research.

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 09:51 PM
So Charlie was in fact killed by Sylar in the kitchen that very day, or at least within two days (per Mohinder) of Hiro and Ando walking out discussing the if/then statement.

That's too bad, because that means a good portion of the writing/editing is just abysmanlly sloppy. How is the diner able to function when their kitchen/storeroom, if not the whole building, should be yellow-taped off? If for some reason, CSU has finished, why are there so many customers, when people tend to stay away from places where bizarre deaths have occurred, and there surely have been two days of local news saturation on the death? Was Charlie's brain aneurysm part of whatever gave her powers, or did the writers just want her to have something deadly to give Hiro something to despair over.

Given that the show gave us a very clever look at why Nathan is not quick to embrace his power of flight (it kept him from rescuing his wife), I thought the writers would do a better job, but now I just don't know.

There's a raft of stuff that I thought might be subtle clues, but may just be sloppy writing such as:

Peter completed the painting of Sylar standing over the dead cheerleader with a comment that he created some predictive etchings some time after meeting Isaac previously. So his mimicked powers last awhile. How long? Or was that just sloppy writing?

Nathan was able to fly away from AED with Haitian standing right there. Was this part of Haitian's rebellion or just sloppy writing?

Why is everyone seemingly so blah about the fact that a cheerleader was murdered on school property? Where are scenes with grief counselors, or even students looking shaken? The Haitian at work, erasing the minds of the whole school commuity, or just sloppy writing?

The show does so many things so well (e.g., keeping AED AE so effectively for so long) that I'd like to give them more credit, but the seams are showing. I think the climax of all of this is not going to be particularly satisfying for a show that started off with such promise.

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 09:53 PM
That's too bad, because that means a good portion of the writing/editing is just abysmanlly sloppy. How is the diner able to function when their kitchen/storeroom, if not the whole building, should be yellow-taped off? If for some reason, CSU has finished, why are there so many customers, when people tend to stay away from places where bizarre deaths have occurred, and there surely have been two days of local news saturation on the death? Was Charlie's brain aneurysm part of whatever gave her powers, or did the writers just want her to have something deadly to give Hiro something to despair over.

...and if Hiro and Ando are walking out of the diner around the same time that Mohinder is making frantic calls to authorities about Charlie's death two days earlier, how the hell long was Ando kicking around that diner?

DocCathode
12-05-2006, 09:56 PM
how the hell long was Ando kicking around that diner?

If it's a 24 hour diner, and they have room, Ando causes no trouble, keeps buying food, and doesn't smell too bad, it's plausible they would let him stay. Especially since all the staff seem like stereotypical nice small town folk.

"I must wait for Hiro."

"Oh, y'all know Hiro? Ya kin stay then."

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 10:10 PM
If it's a 24 hour diner, and they have room, Ando causes no trouble, keeps buying food, and doesn't smell too bad, it's plausible they would let him stay. Especially since all the staff seem like stereotypical nice small town folk.

"I must wait for Hiro."

"Oh, y'all know Hiro? Ya kin stay then."

Yeah, but two days? Not that they wouldn't let him, but what the hell did he do all that time?

Otto
12-05-2006, 10:15 PM
Yeah, but two days? Not that they wouldn't let him, but what the hell did he do all that time?
He waited for Hiro. What else would he do?

As for your "sloppy writing" questions, some of them may be set-ups for upcoming story business (Nathan's flying off in front of the Haitian, Peter's retention of powers) and some of them don't matter to me (I'd rather not waste time on scenes of high schoolers getting grief counseling; Zack's line about the text messages and rumors was sufficient).

DocCathode
12-05-2006, 10:18 PM
"Hey, American baby! My friend can bend time and space."

"Wanna see my samurai sword?"

"Wanna see my rising sun?"

"Ah, this paper has su do ku."

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 10:20 PM
He waited for Hiro. What else would he do?

After 18 hours, max, I'd try to find some way to be a little more pro-active.

As for your "sloppy writing" questions, some of them may be set-ups for upcoming story business (Nathan's flying off in front of the Haitian, Peter's retention of powers) and some of them don't matter to me (I'd rather not waste time on scenes of high schoolers getting grief counseling; Zack's line about the text messages and rumors was sufficient).

You go right ahead and have them not matter to you. I myself, if my belief is to continue in it's suspended state, am looking for a little more attention to detail.

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 10:22 PM
He waited for Hiro. What else would he do?

Or even just leave a note with the counter staff about which nearby motel he was catching 40 winks in.

Kamino Neko
12-05-2006, 10:31 PM
After 18 hours, max, I'd try to find some way to be a little more pro-active.

Like what? Star time travelling himself? He has no idea where, or even WHEN Hiro is. What do you think he could do except wait for him?

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 10:34 PM
You go right ahead and have them not matter to you. I myself, if my belief is to continue in it's suspended state, am looking for a little more attention to detail.
45 minutes is short enough as it is. I don't think there'd be a point in giving us scenes with kids getting grief counseling. It doesn't have any relevance to the storyline.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 11:12 PM
That's too bad, because that means a good portion of the writing/editing is just abysmanlly sloppy. How is the diner able to function when their kitchen/storeroom, if not the whole building, should be yellow-taped off?The cops eat there. You think they want their waffle supply cut off for too long? "Okay, we're done here. Fire up those grills."

If for some reason, CSU has finished, why are there so many customers, when people tend to stay away from places where bizarre deaths have occurred, and there surely have been two days of local news saturation on the death?I'd eat there just out of curiosity & nosiness. Was Charlie's brain aneurysm part of whatever gave her powers, or did the writers just want her to have something deadly to give Hiro something to despair over.
The brain aneurysm was to help Hiro understand going back and changing things doesn't always work.

Peter completed the painting of Sylar standing over the dead cheerleader with a comment that he created some predictive etchings some time after meeting Isaac previously. So his mimicked powers last awhile. How long? Or was that just sloppy writing?The writers don't want us to understand Peter's powers because Peter himself doesn't know but it appears his understanding, control and/or lack of control is going to be a big plot point. I wish I knew how his powers worked too. That's why we're all here speculating.

Nathan was able to fly away from AED with Haitian standing right there. Was this part of Haitian's rebellion or just sloppy writing?
Again with the sloppy writing accusation when we've now been shown Haitian has his own agenda. Let's wait a bit before we demand all the answers.

Why is everyone seemingly so blah about the fact that a cheerleader was murdered on school property? Where are scenes with grief counselors, or even students looking shaken? The Haitian at work, erasing the minds of the whole school commuity, or just sloppy writing?They spend too much time on Niki as it is, I really don't need to know how the students feel. Zach told us they're talking about it.

how the hell long was Ando kicking around that diner?

what the hell did he do all that time?

After 18 hours, max, I'd try to find some way to be a little more pro-active.

I myself, if my belief is to continue in it's suspended state, am looking for a little more attention to detail.

Or even just leave a note with the counter staff about which nearby motel he was catching 40 winks in.Wow. I figured if he were there long enough he probably did grab a few winks at a local hotel but I didn't really need to see that anymore than I need to see exactly how many times he peed from all that coffee.

He made it clear to Peter he was going to stay and wait for his buddy Hiro and that's bloody well what he was going to do. Saving the world is the mission for Hiro and Ando. Alone, Ando is nobody.

Although, I do hope Ando gets to do something heroic eventually.

scotandrsn
12-05-2006, 11:18 PM
45 minutes is short enough as it is. I don't think there'd be a point in giving us scenes with kids getting grief counseling. It doesn't have any relevance to the storyline.

It's not so mu ch that I want to see grief counselors as much as I don't want to see everyone acting like it's just another day. If someone had died at the homecoming the school I teach at just had, everyone would be completely freaked out.

levdrakon
12-05-2006, 11:22 PM
Perhaps the Haitian can only dampen powers connected to the mind (telepathy, telekenetics, etc). That would explain why Nathan's ability to fly remained unaffected.I thought of that but papa-Suresh made a point of telling us the powers are centered in the mind, and it's the mind which Sylar studies to gain powers. If powers were only DNA based Sylar could just chop off fingers and suck on those.

Speaking of that, when AED said, "I think the infusion of so many alterations to your DNA has corrupted your mind," didn't it seem like they worded that deliberately to keep us guessing about whether Sylar is actually eating the brains?

HazelNutCoffee
12-05-2006, 11:25 PM
I thought of that but papa-Suresh made a point of telling us the powers are centered in the mind, and it's the mind which Sylar studies to gain powers. If powers were only DNA based Sylar could just chop off fingers and suck on those.

But perhaps they're all located in different parts of the mind, and the Haitian is only able to affect one particular part...?

I got nothing. I suppose we'll find out soon enough. :)

Otto
12-06-2006, 12:10 AM
For all we know, both AED and the Haitian wanted Nathan to escape for whatever reason. Maybe they'd already done whatever nasty business they had to do before he flew off. Now they've got the goods on a guy who can both fly and may soon be able to propose appropriations bills!

Has anyone checked Nathan's neck for an equal sign?

Just Some Guy
12-06-2006, 12:31 AM
Really we don't know for sure what exactly the Hatian's powers are and how they're restricted. This is true for pretty much every character we've seen. We know Peter can copy powers but we don't know things like: What happens when he copies two at the same time (was the sickness in this episode a result of that)? Is it distance or time that causes them to go away? Is it a sharp cut off or a gradual fade when the copied powers go away? Does the person he's copying make a difference in this?

With the Hatian we know that he sets up some kind of mental static that prevents telepathy in the area (and it looks like he does it without trying unless he's paid to follow Evil Dad around and constantly broadcast mental static just in case). We know that this static disrupted Sylar's telekinetic abilities long enough for Eden to lock him down. We know that the static can be pushed through with effort. We don't know if this mental static only effects certain types of powers or if he has to key in on someone. He might not be able to do something about a reflexive action like flying or someone with superstrength throwing a punch. We just don't know enough about him yet.

It's okay for this stuff to be vague now. Both the characters and the viewers are learning these things as events progress. As long as the answers when they come don't conflict with what was seen before or what they do from that point on I'm not going to complain.

And on that note, it occurred to me that what I took as psychic abilities on Sylar's part could just be his own ability to see how things fit together. That could have let him identify the connections between Evil Dad and Claire as well work out the things he knows later on during the confrontation with Eden. I still like the psychic ability theory because that would mean Sylar got into Peter's head and pumped him for information, but it's a case where there is another reasonable explanation given the information we have.

levdrakon
12-06-2006, 01:14 AM
For all we know, both AED and the Haitian wanted Nathan to escape for whatever reason. Maybe they'd already done whatever nasty business they had to do before he flew off. Now they've got the goods on a guy who can both fly and may soon be able to propose appropriations bills!

Has anyone checked Nathan's neck for an equal sign?True. I remember Nathan saying something like "I've seen your faces, I'll hunt you down and kill you." I guess that's off his to-do list now, although it would have been cool if Nathan had bumped into AED at the police station.

I wonder if AED is going to step in and try to help Peter and then he and Nathan will have to make nice.

RikWriter
12-06-2006, 07:15 AM
You go right ahead and have them not matter to you.

They don't matter to me, either. I'd rather they concentrate on the story.

Draelin
12-06-2006, 08:12 AM
I was thinking last night about Peter's future scar. I know it's complete conjecture and we probably won't see it for quite some time, but I want to go on the record now as saying that Peter's scar will be on his forehead, a memento from when Sylar tries to eat his brain.

That's all. :)

Tangent
12-06-2006, 08:27 AM
Ooooh, I'll bet you're right about that, Draelin. Hopefully we'll find out by the end of the season.


Oh, and someone suggested upthread that maybe the painting of Hiro fighting the dinosaur is just symbolic of the tribulations he is going to face. I don't buy that--so far, Isaac's prophetic paintings have all been quite "literal." That could still mean that it will turn out to be a fake dinosaur--like a display at a museum or a comic-con--but the visual image should match fairly well with the painting.

Man, January 22 seems like a long time away!

scotandrsn
12-06-2006, 08:44 AM
They don't matter to me, either. I'd rather they concentrate on the story.

Again, that's fine for you, but for me, if they're going to keep me guessing and want me to be satisfied with the resolution, they better have their shit straighter.

The reason I was so convinced that Sylar had not killed Charlie after Hiro jumped back was that it was the only way that the behavior of the people in the diner made a goddamn bit of sense to me. I was fine with the idea they'd be walking around normally if, in the new continuity, she had died a number of weeks earlier of her aneurysm, as the emotional wounds would no longer be as fresh. She was dead because on some metaphysical level, she was to die and that's that. I could have bought that. I like to suspend my disbelief.

The fact that Ando remembers arriving with Hiro, and now the waitress seems only to remember Hiro from when he hung around Charlie before disappearing "a while ago", I'm OK with that too. Hiro's concerned about rifts, and here one seems to be. I'm an accomodating guy.

Instead we find that Sylar murdered her after all. Which means, if I work at the diner:


My co-worker who I care enough about to throw a birthday party for six months earlier has been suddenly murdered in bizarre and horrific fashion not twenty feet away from me in another room that no one saw her assailant enter or leave. I don't expect to be at work. I expect I take the rest of the day off to begin to cope, which would be fine anyway, because the cops should have cordoned the place off and gone over it with a fine-toothed comb in search of how the guy got on and where he might have gone.
If for some reason, the cops have already gone on their merry way, and for some reason my boss is enough of a hardass to keep the place open the rest of the day, I'm not going about my business normally, I'd definitely be thrown. I'd wonder, for one, if the guy was still hanging around.
Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I'm concerned, and says he's waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker's admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don't think so. Once the guy's been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I'm making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.
But maybe I don't for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.


But none of this happened in the last two episodes.

Now perhaps there is some great revelation coming that explains the unnatural normalcy that has gripped the Midland-Odessa metropolitan area in the face of these events, and if they can explain it all to my satisfaction, I'll be the first to eat my words and praise them to the skies.

Until then, I call shitty writing. Of Poison Ivy-like proportions.

Just Some Guy
12-06-2006, 08:45 AM
Draelin, I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the scar but there's so many directions the show could go in when it returns it's hard to predict. If Sylar goes after Peter for his duplication abilities then its likely the source of the scar. On the other hand, if Peter is really the center of the explosion in New York then that will probably be how he gets the scar. Either way I predict face mangling injury to Peter by the end of the season!

Of course I seem to be only going about 1 in 4 on my predictions but what's the fun if we can't speculate wildly?

Cuckoorex
12-06-2006, 09:14 AM
Again, that's fine for you, but for me, if they're going to keep me guessing and want me to be satisfied with the resolution, they better have their shit straighter.

The reason I was so convinced that Sylar had not killed Charlie after Hiro jumped back was that it was the only way that the behavior of the people in the diner made a goddamn bit of sense to me. I was fine with the idea they'd be walking around normally if, in the new continuity, she had died a number of weeks earlier of her aneurysm, as the emotional wounds would no longer be as fresh. She was dead because on some metaphysical level, she was to die and that's that. I could have bought that. I like to suspend my disbelief.

The fact that Ando remembers arriving with Hiro, and now the waitress seems only to remember Hiro from when he hung around Charlie before disappearing "a while ago", I'm OK with that too. Hiro's concerned about rifts, and here one seems to be. I'm an accomodating guy.

Instead we find that Sylar murdered her after all. Which means, if I work at the diner:


My co-worker who I care enough about to throw a birthday party for six months earlier has been suddenly murdered in bizarre and horrific fashion not twenty feet away from me in another room that no one saw her assailant enter or leave. I don't expect to be at work. I expect I take the rest of the day off to begin to cope, which would be fine anyway, because the cops should have cordoned the place off and gone over it with a fine-toothed comb in search of how the guy got on and where he might have gone.
If for some reason, the cops have already gone on their merry way, and for some reason my boss is enough of a hardass to keep the place open the rest of the day, I'm not going about my business normally, I'd definitely be thrown. I'd wonder, for one, if the guy was still hanging around.
Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I'm concerned, and says he's waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker's admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don't think so. Once the guy's been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I'm making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.
But maybe I don't for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.


But none of this happened in the last two episodes.

Now perhaps there is some great revelation coming that explains the unnatural normalcy that has gripped the Midland-Odessa metropolitan area in the face of these events, and if they can explain it all to my satisfaction, I'll be the first to eat my words and praise them to the skies.

Until then, I call shitty writing. Of Poison Ivy-like proportions.


I don't think that the memorial was set up the same day as her death, or even the next day. Was there some other cue that I missed that would indicate that Hiro was returning that soon after the murder? I thought that Ando seemed surprised that Hiro had made it back and indicated something about Hiro being gone for a while.

Sir Prize
12-06-2006, 09:22 AM
You make good points scotandrsn. The attitude in the diner was wierd. It's why I was confused about the effects of hiro's journey to the past.

scotandrsn
12-06-2006, 09:39 AM
I don't think that the memorial was set up the same day as her death, or even the next day. Was there some other cue that I missed that would indicate that Hiro was returning that soon after the murder? I thought that Ando seemed surprised that Hiro had made it back and indicated something about Hiro being gone for a while.

The assumption that the story threads are told more or less contiguously unless otherwise indicated for dramatic effect puts Hiro and Ando reunited at the diner at about the same time that Mohinder is in NY calling some sort of authorities and declaring "Charlotte so-and-so was just murdered two days ago!"

So yes, there's every indication that the memorial and return to business-as-usual happened just that quickly. As I said, shitty writing.

Or perhaps, four months from now, they will suddenly have another surprise "this sequence actually takes place weeks away from when you think it does", which was excellent in the opener. However, introducing such a twist after a four-week hiatus would also be shitty writing.

Cuckoorex
12-06-2006, 10:22 AM
So yes, there's every indication that the memorial and return to business-as-usual happened just that quickly. As I said, shitty writing.



Well, they did have a memorial up for her. It's not like they were acting like she never existed.

A bigger concern would be the potential health concerns and the fact that it's a crime scene. So I agree that the writers dropped the ball there.

Ethilrist
12-06-2006, 10:25 AM
Maybe the Haitian guy's been working a lot of overtime this week...

Rhiannon8404
12-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Maybe the Haitian guy's been working a lot of overtime this week...
I always picture him doing it like the "flashy thingy" thing from Men In Black. "Alright people gather round...look right here..."

carterba
12-06-2006, 11:45 AM
Did anybody else notice that Peter, in his dream/vision, appeared to be wearing a Sylar-brand watch and a dark trenchcoat (rather than the light trenchcoat he wore in Homecoming)? And the soundtrack has the ticking sounds that are part of Sylar's motif. Yet the other heroes all appear to recognize Peter as Peter.

I'm thinking Peter is far more powerful than we've seen so far. I'm guessing there will be a final confrontation between the Heroes and Sylar, which is somehow resolved by Peter taking on Sylar's powers (including Ted's, which I conjecture Sylar will acquire). Peter then becomes the threat seen in the vision, and Nathan (who we see walking towards Peter with determination), per Otto's theory, sacrifices himself by flying Peter out of there.

Interesting that Isaac appears in the vision. When the explosion goes off, he's supposed to be dead. Also, all of Isaac's paintings have come true so far, just not always in the most obvious way. That suggests the explosion will happen too. Perhaps they can only affect the aftermath.

Ethilrist
12-06-2006, 11:48 AM
Even more interesting that Simone (Peter's new girlfriend) shows up--everybody else in the dream has powers; Matt's there, but not his partner. Nathan's there, but not his wife. But Simone's there...

scotandrsn
12-06-2006, 11:59 AM
Well, they did have a memorial up for her. It's not like they were acting like she never existed.

It's not that they act like she didn't exist, it's that they act like the memory of her getting sliced open and de-brained right under their noses isn't barely as old as this episode is now.

It ain't normal, I tell ya!

bouv
12-06-2006, 12:01 PM
Even more interesting that Simone (Peter's new girlfriend) shows up--everybody else in the dream has powers; Matt's there, but not his partner. Nathan's there, but not his wife. But Simone's there...

Not everbody. Mohinder was there as well, seen getting out of the driver's side of a taxi (seemingly indicating how he took up his fatther's work.) I just take that to mean that Simone has a larger part to play later on.

SenorBeef
12-06-2006, 02:18 PM
I won't get a DVR because I have no interest in sending off marketing information to the people who sell them. Give me one that isn't also a snitch and I'll gladly use it.

TiVo, IIRC, only collects anonymous, aggregate data, like how many people recorded a show. It's very odd to me if the idea of that bothers you so much that you would pass on hugely upgrading your tv watching experience.

In any case, there's a way to opt out of that data collection on the TiVo website.

Not all the time. The Haitian can't be everywhere 24/7 so my assumption is that there are mechanisms in the cell that somehow dampen Syler's powers (and all mutant powers) . When she turned off the dampening field so she could use her power, he used his. Pretty stupid of her if that's the way it went down.

Well, from her perspective, she controlled him before, and thought she could do it again.


Speaking of Peter absorbing powers, he was close to Sylar so didn't he absorb some of his powers?


It's not clear, but it's possible that Peter was using telekinesis to deflect the locker doors being thrown at him in the episode 2 weeks ago.

I got a katana a few weeks ago at a fantasy/sci fi convention for $25. But I don't think I'd want to go up against a dinosaur with it.

True, dinosaur-certified katanas go for much more.


My theory is that her power was diffused by speaking throuh the intercom, which allowed Syler to resist long enough to pull her in. Once he had his hand on her throat she couldn't speak.

Good guess, but they did do the thing where they echo/deepen her voice from the perspective of the person being persuaded. In the past, they've used that to indicate that she was using her power.

That's what threw me. It seems unnecessarily cruel to delete the entire friendship. Why would AED have that taken away from her when he has to know how much Zach means to Claire. (He's been over at the house many times and he was supposedly the only person with whom Claire shared her secret.) Seems like if the Hatian could be selective, AED would just say, "Take out everything about her powers, but don't take away their friendship."


It would be unsafe and possibly impossible to do anything else.

The whole development of their relationship was directly because of, and related to, her powers. The reason they were together and developed as friends was her power - her power was entirely integral to that. If you just left in all the memories but eliminated every reference to her powers, the memories would no longer make any sense.

No one mentioned the wink and nod from the writers - Isaac saying something like "that's why I like comics.. they're uncomplicated".


Also, for what it's worth, two things about spoiler boxes.

A) You should preface your spoiler box with a description of what that's going to contain. Just having an entire reply be in a spoiler box is useless - as you have to read it in order to find out what it's about. If you have information with a specific source, you should say "From an interview with the writers {spoiler}".

B) Spoiler boxes shouldn't be used for conjecture. If you're guessing something with no inside information, well, that's exactly the sort of thing we're here to discuss. No need to spoiler boxes that. And it just makes spoiler boxes even more ambiguous as to whether or not they're actual spoilers, compounding problem A.

Also - I don't think this one will have popular support, but I'd like if people spoiler boxed things seen in the weekly previews. The storytellers aren't the ones who design these previews, dumbass marketing teams are. So they often spoil significant parts of the episodes. I avoid them for that reason. I'd like to be able to have the option to avoid them in these threads too.

SenorBeef
12-06-2006, 02:20 PM
Oh, also, I agree that Sylar killing Charlie on time just doesn't make sense, unless Ando is waiting there for a week or longer.

For there to be a memorial there, and things going on normally, she would've had to have died earlier than she did in the original timeline.

Otto
12-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Good guess, but they did do the thing where they echo/deepen her voice from the perspective of the person being persuaded. In the past, they've used that to indicate that she was using her power.
Right, but to me it sounded like the Voice-effect was at a much diminished level than we've heard previously. Compare what she sounded like Voicing Sylar behind the glass through an intercom to how she sounded when she tried to Voice AED face to face in "Six Months Ago." Huge difference, which I think was an aural cue from the storytellers that her power was being diffused by the electronic and physical barriers.

borschevsky
12-06-2006, 04:26 PM
Also - I don't think this one will have popular support, but I'd like if people spoiler boxed things seen in the weekly previews. The storytellers aren't the ones who design these previews, dumbass marketing teams are. So they often spoil significant parts of the episodes. I avoid them for that reason. I'd like to be able to have the option to avoid them in these threads too.I agree 100%, but I've lost this argument before. :)

Ethilrist
12-06-2006, 04:29 PM
I agree 100%, but I've lost this argument before. :)
Well, talk to Hiro, then.

Oh, wait, he can't change the past after all... never mind.

USCDiver
12-06-2006, 04:34 PM
The Haitian must be able to selectively influence those around him regardless of what type of power they have. He's been shown to dampen Eden's power (when she's first captured by AED) but she is able to use it around Sylar in the woods.

mnemosyne
12-06-2006, 04:56 PM
When Mohinder is on the phone talking to the FBI(?) about "Charlotte Something-or-other was just killed 2 days ago".... wasn't that about Charlie? The nickname makes sense, and I'm pretty sure he said it was in Texas. So Hiro came back to the café 2 days after Charlie was killed, which was the same day as the Homecoming attack.... 2 days for a memorial to be set up makes sense, doesn't it?

I'd pretty much have to rewatch everything... can someone else who's been following things better than me see if it works under that assumption?

Rucksinator
12-06-2006, 05:04 PM
I think it's pretty clear at this point that it's the Haitian who's doing the blocking. Why would he be following them around everywhere if AED could do it on his own?

OK, who has the power to block other powers?

Who has the power to wipe memories?

Thanks,

SenorBeef
12-06-2006, 05:06 PM
When Mohinder is on the phone talking to the FBI(?) about "Charlotte Something-or-other was just killed 2 days ago".... wasn't that about Charlie?

I think it was "Charlene" and yeah I think it was Midland, Texas.

kurilla
12-06-2006, 05:20 PM
OK, who has the power to block other powers?

Who has the power to wipe memories?

Thanks,

As far as we know now, the Haitian has both.

Terminus Est
12-06-2006, 05:27 PM
When Mohinder is on the phone talking to the FBI(?) about "Charlotte Something-or-other was just killed 2 days ago".... wasn't that about Charlie? The nickname makes sense, and I'm pretty sure he said it was in Texas. So Hiro came back to the café 2 days after Charlie was killed, which was the same day as the Homecoming attack.... 2 days for a memorial to be set up makes sense, doesn't it?

I'd pretty much have to rewatch everything... can someone else who's been following things better than me see if it works under that assumption?
Hiro's blog (http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/) on the NBC website explicitly states that he returned to diner two days after Charlie's death.

Ellis Dee
12-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I'm concerned, and says he's waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker's admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don't think so. Once the guy's been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I'm making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.
But maybe I don't for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.I had mistakenly thought you were being a nitpicking whiner, but goddamn that's some shitty fucking writing you've just pointed out for us slow people.

Bummer. I was much happier when I wasn't aware of exactly how stupid that was.

Just Some Guy
12-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Did anybody else notice that Peter, in his dream/vision, appeared to be wearing a Sylar-brand watch and a dark trenchcoat (rather than the light trenchcoat he wore in Homecoming)? And the soundtrack has the ticking sounds that are part of Sylar's motif. Yet the other heroes all appear to recognize Peter as Peter.

I don't know if they did see Dream Peter as Peter. Note that people were running in terror from him and a handful approached and then backed away in fear. If Peter was seeing the dream from Sylar's perspective that would make sense, but it would mean that everyone was reacting to Sylar.

Either way, I doubt that confrontation in New York is going to play out like Peter's dream. I'm just considering a sign of what's to come.

D_Odds
12-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Bummer. I was much happier when I wasn't aware of exactly how stupid that was.Which is why it doesn't pay to overthink this stuff.

GrandWino
12-06-2006, 07:20 PM
Not everbody. Mohinder was there as well, seen getting out of the driver's side of a taxi (seemingly indicating how he took up his fatther's work.) I just take that to mean that Simone has a larger part to play later on.

I believe Ando is in Peters dream/vision as well.

scotandrsn
12-06-2006, 08:55 PM
When Mohinder is on the phone talking to the FBI(?) about "Charlotte Something-or-other was just killed 2 days ago".... wasn't that about Charlie? The nickname makes sense, and I'm pretty sure he said it was in Texas. So Hiro came back to the café 2 days after Charlie was killed, which was the same day as the Homecoming attack.... 2 days for a memorial to be set up makes sense, doesn't it?

I'd pretty much have to rewatch everything... can someone else who's been following things better than me see if it works under that assumption?

I just rewatched the relevant portions. Assuming that AED's meeting with Isaac takes place on the same day that Charlie dies (given that they cut back and forth between the story lines in "Seven Minutes to Midnight"), then the homecoming murder takes place exactly one day after Charlie's death (AED tells Isaac who Sylar is in his painting, and says he's going to kill Claire the following night).

At the beginning of "Homecoming", Simone shows Peter the digital image of the ruined painting showing him lying bloody under a homecoming banner, and tells him she found out the school is having a homecoming game that night. He calls Hiro's cell number, which rings his phone in his bag at the diner, where Ando is there to answer it. A memorial to Charlie is up, and the place is busy with customers and patrons all going about their business with nary a care in the world.

So my perception of the timeline is off. But the whole thing still strikes me as weird. Everyone's back to normal way the hell too quickly, and I can't imagine the place isn't a taped-off crime scene still. Or is this sort of thing just run-of-the-mill in Midland? "So, Jim, looks like we had ourselves one of those head-slicing murders you hear about in the storeroom yesterday. Yep, right in back where we keep the flour and fruit for the pies. Turned poor Charlie into an overgrown Pez dispenser. Warm up your coffee?"

Also:

The diner waitress tells Ando about Hiro's history with Charlie after he asks about the altered birthday picture. Ando begs her to tell him where Hiro might be. Reacting as though it's the first time she's heard the name in forever, she informs him that Hiro "popped out of her life a few weeks ago". Which means Ando, in the perception of the locals, has been hovering around the diner alone since the the murder yesterday with no explanation, and suddenly wants to know about the dead girl's oddly-vanished sweetheart. Who shows up that night. Greeted by cries of recognition by exactly no one who knew Charlie.

The next day, after two similarly gruesome murders in the area in as many days have happened, the suddenly-reappeared Hiro shows up again (or have they been there the whole time?) with his friend and some guy who looks like a junkie and they speak in hushed tones for a time.

"Howdy. Would any of you boys like a danish?"

levdrakon
12-06-2006, 10:52 PM
Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I'm concerned, and says he's waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker's admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don't think so. Once the guy's been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I'm making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.
But maybe I don't for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.


Well, Hiro and Ando were sitting in the diner when Charlie was killed. They would have been questioned and eliminated as suspects. Then Hiro jumps to the past. But by the time Ando gets around to asking about Hiro's picture, the cops have already been in contact with the FBI and know the killer was Sylar, a known serial killer the FBI have been after for awhile. Everyone but Ando has apparently forgotten Hiro was there earlier that day. I don't believe Ando ever told anyone he was waiting for Hiro. He just asked the waitress if she knew who he was, when the picture was taken and if she knew where he was. She told him he left six weeks ago and gave him a "sorry can't help you" look.

Later in the evening or maybe sometime during the night Hiro shows up by bus. Neither the waitress nor anyone who knows Hiro would necessarily be there at that time of night to recognize Hiro when he walks in the door. The murder at the high school took place just before 8:12 PM and probably didn't make the news until the following morning.

That's where the writing gets loose for me. The next day Hiro, Ando and Isaac go back to the diner during the day. Someone could be expected to recognize him then.

A memorial to Charlie is up, and the place is busy with customers and patrons all going about their business with nary a care in the world.Actually they did have a shot of a girl standing next to the memorial crying and the older waitress patted her on the shoulder so everything wasn't completely back to business as usual.

Cuckoorex
12-07-2006, 01:47 AM
Overthinking

Ethilrist
12-07-2006, 08:27 AM
OK, who has the power to block other powers?

Who has the power to wipe memories?

Thanks,
AED has ordered the Haitian to clean peoples' memories out, and he brought the Haitian along to the police station to block Matt's telepathy, so it looks like it's the Haitian ahead 2:0 on powers.

drillrod
12-07-2006, 09:14 AM
About Sylar and his ability to look into people and see what makes them tick: it seemed to me that he was demonstrating that ability while talking to AED. I looked to me like he was reading Dad through the glass and figuring things out about him. It seems like a type of telepathy, or maybe super-empathy. He doesn't just put himself in someone's place, he can make himself like someone else.

When he was in the cell and raging at AED, I think that he had already regained his abilities and was just waiting for an opportune moment to escape.

Either that, or he really wanted to add to his powers and was just waiting for some time when he would be alone with either Eden or with the Jamaican dude.

Frankly, I don't know if I'd try to use any power on him more than once, especially something that acts on his mind (like Eden's). I'd be willing to bet that after the first time, he's able to figure it out and how to counter it. He's kind of like Doomsday, the DC comics guy who killed Superman (although temporarily). The Haitian might be able to use his ability more than once, but I wouldn't bet on it.

That's my .02 anyway.

Priam
12-07-2006, 09:46 AM
I think I'm just gonna call the idiotic diner Anne Nesia's Grill and movie on.

Amok
12-07-2006, 10:02 AM
I'd have to go back and watch the Eden/Sylar scene again to be sure, but I don't think her power failed to work on him. She just didn't give him very good instructions. She says something like "I'm going to put this gun in the tray and slide it into the room, and then you'll pick it up and shoot yourself" (or words to that effect). That's a conditional statement. Until she does the first part of the sentence (slide the gun into the room through the tray), he's not compelled to do the second part (pick it up and shoot himself). Or at least that's what I assume. Hiro and Ando did reference "if then" statements earlier in the episode, and that's basically what this was.

What Eden should have done, of course, was first tell him to not harm her. But it seemed like she thought he couldn't use his powers against her while he was in the room or what not. Not sure why on that one, and it is kind of confusing. Then once she's gone through the glass, they make a point of showing that Sylar has a thumb on her throat so that she can't talk.

Shayna
12-07-2006, 10:24 AM
I guess I was the only one who thought it was Sylar who caused Eden to turn the gun on herself, just like he did with the female FBI agent. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, given that with her brains blown out, he might not be able to take her powers. But perhaps he didn't really care about her powers, or he could get them just as easily by eating bits of brain without having to consume the whole thing. I wonder if they'll replay that scene at the opening of the next episode, perhaps with a wider angle or a different perspective, so we can see more fully what actually happened, or if they intend to leave it to speculation. I cannot wait until January!

kurilla
12-07-2006, 10:36 AM
I guess I was the only one who thought it was Sylar who caused Eden to turn the gun on herself, just like he did with the female FBI agent. I know it doesn't seem to make sense, given that with her brains blown out, he might not be able to take her powers. But perhaps he didn't really care about her powers, or he could get them just as easily by eating bits of brain without having to consume the whole thing. I wonder if they'll replay that scene at the opening of the next episode, perhaps with a wider angle or a different perspective, so we can see more fully what actually happened, or if they intend to leave it to speculation. I cannot wait until January!

You could always watch it on nbc.com...

And I thought the expression of Sylar's face made it clear he wasn't happy with (and therefore didn't cause) her blowing her brains out.

levdrakon
12-07-2006, 01:25 PM
About Sylar and his ability to look into people and see what makes them tick: it seemed to me that he was demonstrating that ability while talking to AED. I looked to me like he was reading Dad through the glass and figuring things out about him. It seems like a type of telepathy, or maybe super-empathy. He doesn't just put himself in someone's place, he can make himself like someone else.I think Peter is the one who does it via super-empathy. Sylar seems to do it via super-observation, kind of how Bene Gesserits exercise petit perception, observing and analyzing minutiae the rest of us miss.

Otto
12-07-2006, 02:48 PM
I think Peter is the one who does it via super-empathy. Sylar seems to do it via super-observation, kind of how Bene Gesserits exercise petit perception, observing and analyzing minutiae the rest of us miss.
Well, except for the raking through brains with his fingertips and all. Don't quite see how he could super-observe the structures inside someone's head from the outside.

levdrakon
12-07-2006, 03:05 PM
Well, except for the raking through brains with his fingertips and all. Don't quite see how he could super-observe the structures inside someone's head from the outside.To gain your powers he has to literally look inside your head. But just to figure out that for instance, your weakness is your protecting your daughter who is most likely the super powered cheerleader and you're probably bluffing about the room being what's keeping my powers in check he just has to super-observe you a bit.

ouryL
12-07-2006, 03:55 PM
Perhaps Peter will gain the power to mimic beyond just powers. ;)

levdrakon
12-11-2006, 11:17 PM
If anyone's wondering whether the character Zach is gay or straight, there's a spoiler article here which sets things straight. (http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/12/heroes.html)

Don't read if you don't want to know. It doesn't contain anything else about the show.

Lord Il Palazzo
12-12-2006, 12:26 PM
The thing about the dinosaur is Hiro doesn't really have to fight anything if he sees it coming and has time to freeze it. I almost see the dinosaur as a psychic attack of some kind he'll have to deal with. The dinosaur represents a fear he has about his power.But haven't all of Isaac's paintings been pretty much literal representations up to this point? I mean, he paints a train wreck, Claire saves a guy from a train wreck. He paints an atomic blast demolishing the city, Hiro sees the explosion in the future. I see no reason that Isaac would resort to symbolism now.

levdrakon
12-12-2006, 02:46 PM
But haven't all of Isaac's paintings been pretty much literal representations up to this point? I mean, he paints a train wreck, Claire saves a guy from a train wreck. He paints an atomic blast demolishing the city, Hiro sees the explosion in the future. I see no reason that Isaac would resort to symbolism now.I figure if he ends up fighting a dinosaur it doesn't have to be symbolic if he really does have to fight a dinosaur - on a psychic plane - or something.

I'm thinking of the times in comic books when Professor X has been drawn into a psychic battle and his opponent can conjure all sorts of fantastic things on the astral/psychic plane and if you lose, you're also dead in the real world.

It's a total wild ass guess on my part though. I just can't imagine how he's going to end up on some sort of rocky outcrop, surrounded by flame and facing a dinosaur which is about to eat him.

Otto
12-12-2006, 04:00 PM
There wasn't any actual flame. The background went from brownish to orangey to brownish but no actual flames.