Interpret this incident... what is her agenda?

[Rubystreak]

Man and woman date for 4 years, live together for the last two. He loses his job, they are together a lot in the last year, driving each other crazy, fighting a lot (he was supporting her, and now... he's not). In one of their fights, she drops one of those, "I can't take this anymore!" and he seizes this opportunity to break it off. She's not as thrilled with this as he is, but she moves back in with her mother. Within months, she's dating someone else, and moves in with the new guy soon after.

She sometimes drops in to visit her ex, feeling they are friends. He's OK with this, not really caring that much either way, as he's not someone who really has female friends. At this point, he's out dating again too, but not in a serious relationship. Her new BF doesn't like her going to see him; she claims he doesn't "get" her friendship with her ex.

One weekday morning, about 6 months after they broke up, guy wakes up to find his ex in his apartment, cooking him breakfast. While he's eating it, she tells him she's engaged and bursts into hysterical tears. She says she found someone sensitive and nice, so she's going to marry him. He says he's happy for her, not knowing what else to say. He goes to work, she leaves.

What do YOU think is her agenda here? Care to speculate?

[DanBlather]

I'd test the bacon for polonium.

[tomndebb]

Why do unrestrained hormones and the general inability of the human animal to deal with relationships require an "agenda"?

(And why does she still have access to his house? Still has a key? (Why?) He sleeps with doors unlocked?)

[Rubystreak]

Why do unrestrained hormones and the general inability of the human animal to deal with relationships require an "agenda"?

Meaning what exactly? Whose hormones?

(And why does she still have access to his house? Still has a key? (Why?) He sleeps with doors unlocked?)

He never locks his doors.

[Cat Whisperer]

I think her new bf is right to not like her hanging around her ex, since she seems to still love him, isn't over him, and is possibly insane as well. She needs to get her head on straight and talk to her ex about all the baggage she's carrying around, and she especially needs to not marry Mr. Rebound.

This isn't Meg Ryan we're talking about, is it? :)

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=featherlou]This isn't Meg Ryan we're talking about, is it? :)[/

Why, did she do it?

Maybe I'm up too late, but the replies for this thread keep confusing me. :confused:

[Wordworker]

From what you say, it sounds like she never wanted the breakup in the first place. She tried to deal with it in the best way she could, but might still harbor lingering feelings for the guy who dumped her. She's found someone who fits the bill of a good and loyal husband, and she knows that logically, he's the right choice for her. That doesn't make accepting it in her heart any easier.

Agenda? I don't see a devious one. I think she's still in pain, and reaching out to someone she thinks she still loves - maybe quietly begging him to take her back so that she doesn't have to marry the wrong Mr. Right.

[Rubystreak]

Agenda? I don't see a devious one. I think she's still in pain, and reaching out to someone she thinks she still loves - maybe quietly begging him to take her back so that she doesn't have to marry the wrong Mr. Right.

By agenda, I mean just what you say-- do you think she was hoping he'd have a reaction beyond, "Good for you. Thanks for breakfast. I'm off to work, bye!" If someone did this to you, would you think she was making a play to get you back?

What do you think of the guy's claims that she has no ulterior motive, that she's just "really emotional"? Is he clueless? Being disingenuous? Something else?

[Wordworker]

I guess I have a little bit of a prejudice against the word "agenda" in connection with relationships - it always sounds so devious and intentional to me. As does "making a play" - it sounds underhanded and sneaky - the conniving of a scorned woman. What you describe sounds like the confused actions of a hurting woman.

She probably is wondering the same thing as you are. Deep down, yeah, I would bet she was hoping he'd "snap to his senses," realize that he was about to lose her forever, and sweep her off her feet.

I think his assessment of her having no ulterior motives is spot on. Again, this suggests intentional deception to manipulate him, which I'm not seeing from your original description of things.

[Cicero]

I am assuming "he" is actually "you"?

[glee]

I'm not a relationship expert.

However I think that if a woman I used to go out with lets herself into my house and cooks me breakfast that she wants some sort relationship, but she doesn't know what it is.
Since she doesn't know what she wants, she can't really have an agenda...

[twickster]

I am assuming "he" is actually "you"?
Nah, Rubystreak is a she -- I'm wondering if "he" is her bf, though.

Anyway -- agree with what's being said here. The ex sounds like a loose cannon -- so whether it's clear to her what her motives are or not ... the guy needs to start locking his doors.

[Auntbeast]

I will ditto the assertion that she doesn't have an "agenda."

Doing the right thing logically is not always the emotionally easiest thing to do. Even when the vast majority of your emotions are on the same track as your logic. It's the other irrational ones that make us crazy. She is probably still in love with the old guy, even though she knows that there is no future there. You can love, and love won't care. That doesn't mean the love goes away, it just means that she is one of those folks that isn't very good at keeping it in its tiny little box.

Yeah, a part of her was wishing old guy would say "You can't marry him, I love you." We have all seen the fairy tails, it is what we are told happens, however, we live in this old world, and we know better.

I doubt there is anything underhanded. Just a fervent, if fleeting belief in faces that can launch a thousand ships, prince charmings, soulmates and one true love.

Wishing just once, the fairy tales could come true.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

This is possibly one of the most mixed up things I've heard in a while. Dude needs to lock his doors, and female friends or not, she needs to be tossed the fuck out of Dodge.

Sure, I might be overreacting a little bit. I'll accept that, but why would she come into his place and do these things? It's almost like th eepisode of Seinfeld where George couldn't break up with that blonde unless she okayed it. He likened it to firing a missile out of a submarine.

As for an agenda. It's hard to say. "Agenda", in these contexts reeks of negative connotations. This situation doesn't seem kosher.



Turn your key! You're going to turn your key!

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Sometimes closure comes a bit late and circumstances drive home the point in a very primal way that resonates. I don't think the woman had an agenda. It is more likely that whatever left-over heartstrings she had about the relationship finally got severed and the finality hit her hard.

For example, a buddy of mine separated. It was not a horrible break-up. The marriage simpy didn't work. While separated, his soon-to-be-ex wife met someone else, as did he. He asked his new girl to marry him (they are such an amazingly good couple). They only needed to wait until his divorce was finalized.

But when he got his signed divorce papers in hand, he started to cry: "Waaaah! My marriage failed! It's really over!"

He did NOT want his ex-wife back. The divorce papers meant he could marry his new spouse and he was thrilled and excited about that. However, there was still this huge, lingering emotional cloud that had been hovering over him. At one time, he thought his first wife would be forever. Untill his new girl, it was the single most profound relationship he had ever had: they had lived together, they had been a domestic team, they were family. He had thought his first was was "the one", but it turns out she was not.

Something about having the divorce papers in hand, brought all of that back to the forefront of his mind. It made the "it's over" feeling seem huge and fresh again. And he said he felt like a failure.

Luckily his new SO was a good sport about it, she understood that it was the resolution to the last dregs of emotional baggage he was carrying. He is very happy with his new wife, and on amicable terms with his ex.

[Unregistered Bull]

How good was the breakfast?

[Rubystreak]

Nah, Rubystreak is a she -- I'm wondering if "he" is her bf, though.

It's him, but this incident happened before I met him, so it's not a threat to me or anything. We just disagree on the interpretation of the incident. I say she wanted him back and was showing it with the breakfast. He says no. Agree to disagree, esp. since she hasn't shown up again.

Anyway -- agree with what's being said here. The ex sounds like a loose cannon -- so whether it's clear to her what her motives are or not ... the guy needs to start locking his doors.

I lock them when I leave, if that helps.

[twickster]

I lock them when I leave, if that helps.
Not much, if they're not locked when the two of you are there together -- do you really want to wake up some morning to find some psycho ex standing over the bed with a knife? ;)

[Rubystreak]

Not much, if they're not locked when the two of you are there together -- do you really want to wake up some morning to find some psycho ex standing over the bed with a knife? ;)

:p I think it's pretty old news now... this happened like 8 months ago, so I hope she's gotten her psycho out and that's that.

[twickster]

:p I think it's pretty old news now... this happened like 8 months ago, so I hope she's gotten her psycho out and that's that.
Yeah, I'm sure the red stuff dripping from the knife would be strawberry jam -- don't worry ... :D

[sugar and spice]

Well, I'm a female who tends to cry very easily, and I think the bursting into tears tells you nothing more than that she was worked up *something*, but its anyone's guess what that something was. Maybe she didn't even know what it was, and all explainations here are reasonable.

I think making him breakfast could have been nostalgia for the times that they did live together. My hunch is that she made the visit in the a.m. so that fiance wouldn't notice, and when she got there started making breakfast, to keep busy while guy was asleep. Is this the same apartment that they used to live in as a couple? If so, then I think letting herself in is a little less weird, but you could disagree with me on that.

If I had to make a bet, though, I would say that she didn't want to hear "I love you, lets get back together", but she probably wanted to hear something other than "Thats great, I have to go to work, bye". Like, perhaps, "You seem upset, do you wanna talk about it later?" Given that she kept in touch, she probably saw him as someone she could talk to about things. I mean, they were together for 4 years.

[Sam Stone]

Man and woman date for 4 years, live together for the last two. He loses his job, they are together a lot in the last year, driving each other crazy, fighting a lot (he was supporting her, and now... he's not). In one of their fights, she drops one of those, "I can't take this anymore!" and he seizes this opportunity to break it off. She's not as thrilled with this as he is, but she moves back in with her mother. Within months, she's dating someone else, and moves in with the new guy soon after.

She sometimes drops in to visit her ex, feeling they are friends. He's OK with this, not really caring that much either way, as he's not someone who really has female friends. At this point, he's out dating again too, but not in a serious relationship. Her new BF doesn't like her going to see him; she claims he doesn't "get" her friendship with her ex.

One weekday morning, about 6 months after they broke up, guy wakes up to find his ex in his apartment, cooking him breakfast. While he's eating it, she tells him she's engaged and bursts into hysterical tears. She says she found someone sensitive and nice, so she's going to marry him. He says he's happy for her, not knowing what else to say. He goes to work, she leaves.

What do YOU think is her agenda here? Care to speculate?

Depends on how high the craziness factor is. If she`s really manipulative, it could be that there is no engagement at all, and that she's saying this in a desperate attempt to make him jealous and ask her back.

If she's not manipulative, it could be that she hooked up with the other guy 'on the rebound', but still has feelings for the old boyfriend, and she's just horribly conflicted.

In either case, the guy seriously needs to learn to not only lock his doors, but to let an ex-girlfriend know that she no longer has the right to walk into his apartment unannounced. That's horribly inappropriate.

[Wile E]

I don't know, getting up early and going to someone's home uninvited to cook them breakfast sounds fishy to me. Who the heck gets up early if they don't have to?

[Rubystreak]

If I had to make a bet, though, I would say that she didn't want to hear "I love you, lets get back together", but she probably wanted to hear something other than "Thats great, I have to go to work, bye". Like, perhaps, "You seem upset, do you wanna talk about it later?" Given that she kept in touch, she probably saw him as someone she could talk to about things. I mean, they were together for 4 years.

She's barking up the wrong tree if she thinks he's going to ask her to talk about her feelings. He is just not into that. He'll talk, but he's not an emoter. At ALL. In fact, one of the things she said to him, amidst the weeping, was that her fiance was a sensitive guy who cared about all her little feelings, unlike her ex, who was more of a guy's guy.

His reaction was, ummm. Yeah, good luck with that. It was nice to have a hot breakfast. See ya. She couldn't possibly have truly expected much else, though maybe this was a test, her last shot at seeing if he could ever offer her some sort of big emotional outreach. He didn't. She hasn't been back. Which is good, because if this happened when we were dating, I'd be a bit put out.

[Maastricht]

What do YOU think is her agenda here? Care to speculate?I'd say about the same agenda I had in roughly the same situation. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=356740). She obviously cares a great deal about her ex. If she regards her ex like an older brother, she would want his approval for her marriage, because she does not want to lose him as a friend/substitute family member. While at the same time she is very nervous about telling him, feeling he might disapprove, because she has finalized "replacing" him as a lover, and will he still care about her then?

Those feelings explain why she wanted to put him in a good mood, making breakfast. It also explains her tears when she was telling him. She feels she has to tell him (she wants to be honest and she figures he should hear it from her first) but she is afraid she'll hurt him and afraid he will lash out, afraid he will no longer be her friend.

[Cat Whisperer]

This isn't Meg Ryan we're talking about, is it? :)

Why, did she do it?

Maybe I'm up too late, but the replies for this thread keep confusing me. :confused:
Nah, it just sounded like the plot complications for a Meg Ryan type movie to me, is all.
<snip>if this happened when we were dating, I'd be a bit put out.<snip>
That's an understatement for me. If an ex-girlfriend showed up in my boyfriend's house, cooking him breakfast and crying about her upcoming marriage to him, we would be having a long, serious talk about appropriate behaviour and boundaries, after he changed the locks.

[susan]

She might not have wanted him back, but might have felt guilty.

[Rubystreak]

While at the same time she is very nervous about telling him, feeling he might disapprove, because she has finalized "replacing" him as a lover, and will he still care about her then?

Maybe she realized it was a little bit fast after they broke up that she was engaged to someone else and was sort of apologizing? I guess that's possible.

Those feelings explain why she wanted to put him in a good mood, making breakfast. It also explains her tears when she was telling him. She feels she has to tell him (she wants to be honest and she figures he should hear it from her first) but she is afraid she'll hurt him and afraid he will lash out, afraid he will no longer be her friend.

I can tell you, she had no reason to worry about him being hurt or lashing out. He said he was over her for about 6 months before they broke up, and it was his idea that she get out. As for lashing out, we're talking about the most even-tempered, laid back guy ever. I don't think she feared his wrath; he has none towards anyone, really. He says he met her declaration with indifference, with a mild "good for you" thrown in. I'm sure she was disappointed with that.

They haven't spoken since this incident, so I'm not sure what that means. Maybe she was hurt that he didn't care she was getting married?

That's an understatement for me. If an ex-girlfriend showed up in my boyfriend's house, cooking him breakfast and crying about her upcoming marriage to him, we would be having a long, serious talk about appropriate behaviour and boundaries, after he changed the locks.

If it happened when we were together, I'd have an issue with it, for sure. As it stands, it's not a problem because she seems to be out of the picture now. Her fiance won't "allow" her to see him anymore, probably because she told him about the Psycho Breakfast Incident. I feel sorry for him; sounds like they have a groovy marriage ahead of them.

I do wonder, though, if we've heard the last of her. I feel safe enough, though, because if he wanted her back, he certainly had his chance and passed it up.

[Sapo]

I am guessing she has no real agenda. Sounds like she just doesn't know what she wants. He needs to get the habit of locking that door and start considering a restraining order if she insists. She sounds pretty unstable.

[anu-la1979]

I think her agenda is a dose of PSYCHO.

And I think that dude needs to lock his door, for the love of gods.

Who does these things? Don't people have more pride?

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Well, I'm a female who tends to cry very easily, and I think the bursting into tears tells you nothing more than that she was worked up *something*, but its anyone's guess what that something was. Maybe she didn't even know what it was, and all explainations here are reasonable.

I think making him breakfast could have been nostalgia for the times that they did live together. My hunch is that she made the visit in the a.m. so that fiance wouldn't notice, and when she got there started making breakfast, to keep busy while guy was asleep. Is this the same apartment that they used to live in as a couple? If so, then I think letting herself in is a little less weird, but you could disagree with me on that.

If I had to make a bet, though, I would say that she didn't want to hear "I love you, lets get back together", but she probably wanted to hear something other than "Thats great, I have to go to work, bye". Like, perhaps, "You seem upset, do you wanna talk about it later?" Given that she kept in touch, she probably saw him as someone she could talk to about things. I mean, they were together for 4 years.

Yeah, but really, who in the fuck is going to say this? I know I'd never say that in the morning, waking up and seeing your ex making you breaskfast. The closest I'd get to this is "Are you okay?" with the connotation that I think she's fucking crazy.

[Ensign Edison]

She knows it's too soon and wants him to talk her out of it, I'd wager.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Bolding mine, by the way. Also, I'm tryint go point out the "intended" statement, not the more likely one.

[Rubystreak]

Showed him this thread, and he said he really, really thinks it was guilt now. She thought he would think it was too soon and didn't want him to feel bad about it. I thnk she was projecting, though, because the idea that he would be upset, knowing him, is silly.

Why the crying, I don't know.

[saoirse]

I think swallowed my cellphone, despite being gustatorily challenged, has it right. The woman was saying goodbye in her own, schizy, age-inappropriate way (no offense rubystreak. I'm just saying you seem older than 20). She got herself worked up, and did somehting wierd. The bf did the right thing by expressing his kind thoughts and not encouraging her. She's probably pretty embarassed about it now.

[Rubystreak]

I think swallowed my cellphone, despite being gustatorily challenged, has it right. The woman was saying goodbye in her own, schizy, age-inappropriate way (no offense rubystreak. I'm just saying you seem older than 20).

She's 24, so you hit the nail on the head with that.

She got herself worked up, and did somehting wierd. The bf did the right thing by expressing his kind thoughts and not encouraging her. She's probably pretty embarassed about it now.

I certainly would be.

[Maastricht]

I can tell you, she had no reason to worry about him being hurt or lashing out.I guess she knew that as well, she wouldn't have told him if she would have been really worried of him lashing out. But for some people, even a hurt look or a sarcastic remark is bad enough. She might even have been afraid he would not reassure her when he always had reassured her before. Overemotional? A bit flakey? Sure. But that sounds like her (and a bit like me, as well).
They haven't spoken since this incident, so I'm not sure what that means.If she's anything like me, she is relieved she told her ex. She will now free to concentrate on her fiance again. She might feel a bit ashamed of the scene she caused. My guess is she will probably not show up again anytime soon.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about, Rubystreak. The whole scene sounds like her way of saying goodbye-on-good-terms to her ex, and that will give closure to both of them. She might need the closure far more then your friend, but he (and by default, you) will benefit from his ex feeling she got to say her goodbye.
These things take time and a year doesn't sound that unreasonable. Good for your friend to have her let her say. If ever, god forbid, you and your two break up again, you now know he will care about the feelings of all people involved, and that is a very, very good thing, for it ensures the break-up won't turn into a drama. At the very least, that will save you heartache and lawyercosts. :)

Rubystreak, you seem determined to dislike this girl. Okay, that's very understandable. Five years ago, I was the flaky ex. I had had a two year long distance realtionship with a guy, " Roger". Our break-up just had gone too soon, and as we didn't live together at the time, I just hadn't had the time to talk it all out with him. His ex allowed him to talk to me on the phone for maybe a dozen times on a four-month-period. I had the greatest respect for her doing that, and I asked Roger to tell her that I thought so.
She wasn't a doormat; for instance, she got annoyed if Roger got in to long phoneconversations with other female friends (he wasn't a player, just a guy with a lot of female friends). But she made an exception for when I called. I have always been grateful for her maganimity and selfconfidence. Roger and I remained just friends (I talk to him a couple times a year). And whenever he bitched to me about her on the phone, I have carefully chosen her side as well.

[FRDE]

I don't see why one should not remain good friends with an ex. I certainly did.

It sounds as if she was bursting to tell him the good news, did not want to do it on the 'phone, and when she got into his home, she was back on old territory. The guy is fortunate that she cooked breakfast rather than got out the vacuum cleaner.

My guess is that they really broke up because she wanted to go into wife and kids mode and he did not.

I consider disliking an ex after a breakup is a sign of really bad selection in the first place.

[Rubystreak]

now know he will care about the feelings of all people involved, and that is a very, very good thing, for it ensures the break-up won't turn into a drama. At the very least, that will save you heartache and lawyercosts. :)

The thing he, he didn't care. She was afraid, apparently, that he would think she cheated on him because she was living with an engaged to someone else within 3 months of moving out with him. She wanted him to know that she was faithful, but happened to find someone MUCH better than him VERY quickly. His reaction was, OK, good for you. He believed her claims of fidelity and wished her well on her marriage. Maybe her tears were those of relief, I don't know.

Rubystreak, you seem determined to dislike this girl.

I don't know her. I don't need to know her. I wrote this thread to get help sussing out her motives, since my BF thought it was nothing. I realize now that she probably didn't want him back, she just felt guilty and trashy for rebounding so fast and didn't want him to think she did something skanky, like cheat, or line up another boyfriend while they were together. That's cool.

But if she shows up and makes him breakfast again, he's getting a deadbolt on his door and that's it. ;)

[According to Pliny]

Sounds like fiction.

[Ludovic]

At the very least, that will save you heartache and lawyercosts. :) Can I just hijack to say that I love multiplewords? I wish it were as easy for Englishwriters to make up words like that without getting the runaround (okay, nevermind that last example ;) )

[Rubystreak]

Sounds like fiction.

I wish it were. It's bloody gospel truth. Why do I always date guys who have such dodgy exes?

[Sonia Montdore]

What was she cooking for breakfast? It wasn't boiled bunny, was it?

[Doctor Jackson]

IWe have all seen the fairy tails,...

I haven't. I'll bet they're cute.

[saoirse]

I wish it were. It's bloody gospel truth. Why do I always date guys who have such dodgy exes?

I don't think it sounds like fiction at all. As I said, it sounds like someone has an immature ex who lost her shit a littl bit.

[Mr. Slant]

On behalf of House Slant, I gotta' say, if a woman wants to have a relationship with me that centers around cooking me breakfast, that ain't a bad thing.
Given that Mrs. Slant doesn't even wake up in time for breakfast, I suppose she wouldn't be jealous...

[Rubystreak]

On behalf of House Slant, I gotta' say, if a woman wants to have a relationship with me that centers around cooking me breakfast, that ain't a bad thing.
Given that Mrs. Slant doesn't even wake up in time for breakfast, I suppose she wouldn't be jealous...

If she wants to cook both of us breakfast, then yeah, she should come on over. Otherwise, no thanks.

[Fish]

In one of their fights, she drops one of those, "I can't take this anymore!" and he seizes this opportunity to break it off.
I read this as something she'd say out of frustration but didn't expect him to take her literally. She was venting, and wanted a response like the "it's going to be okay, let me give you a hug, tell me what's wrong, let's talk about it" speech, but instead got the "Don't let the door hit you in the ass" speech.
Within months, she's dating someone else, and moves in with the new guy soon after.
So she says. I mean, this is the only evidence we have that there's another man: because she said so.

If there is another man, she doesn't seem to be too concerned with what he wants; she's going to see her ex against his wishes. She could feel guilty about betraying her boyfriend's wishes. That might explain the emotional scene. In any case, she obviously cares enough about her ex to disregard her fiance's feelings; one wonders how committed she was to him, or whether she had fully detatched from her ex. Logically, she might have known she should have wanted Sensitive Man, but emotionally, she was more committed to Manly Man.

If there isn't another man, she could have been making a play. She had made up the "other man" in attempt to make him jealous, and gave him all the qualities she wanted her ex to show, hoping to clue him in to what she really wanted.

I can't see how she didn't have an agenda. The question in my mind would be, "Did she go to the grocery store to buy eggs and bacon and breakfast food for this purpose?" because that would seem much more premeditated than just showing up one morning and cooking whatever happened to be in the cupboard. (I guarantee you, you wouldn't find breakfast food in this bachelor's pantry.)

[Charger]

Why do I always date guys who have such dodgy exes\0\0?
It's a statistical probability. My ex-girlfriend alone has put a significant percentage of us guys into the category of Guys Who Have Such Dodgy Exes.

[Rubystreak]

I mean, this is the only evidence we have that there's another man: because she said so.

No, her fiance really exists. She lives with him, and my BF has seen him. She moved in with him 2 months after she moved out. It was really, really quick. I think she was worried about him thinking she found the new guy while she was still with him, due to the alacrity of her transition. My theory is that she didn't want to be living with her mother and found a way out tout suite, knew it looked bad, and wanted to break it to my BF gently. The idea that he gave a damn was more a product of her anxiety than his concerns.

she's going to see her ex against his wishes. She could feel guilty about betraying her boyfriend's wishes. That might explain the emotional scene.

She doesn't see my BF anymore, not since The Breakfast Incident. I don't think that's why she was crying. I think she was, as some posters have suggested, feeling bad about her rapid transfer of affection.

whether she had fully detatched from her ex. Logically, she might have known she should have wanted Sensitive Man, but emotionally, she was more committed to Manly Man.

I think you're right that part of her wants the nice guy but she misses the studly he-man that is my BF. ;) She told him he wasn't compassionate enough, she needed a guy who cared about her feelings. Maybe she was giving him the opportunity to show that he really WAS sensitive, a last shot at it? If so, he failed the test. She must have known that he would. Emotional outbursts are not his forte and "there, there, it's OK" isn't his style. Besides, even I, who am emotional, wouldn't want to be comforting my ex about being engaged to someonee else. Who the hell would?

I can't see how she didn't have an agenda.

Me neither. I'm not sure anymore that her agenda was getting him back. She may have wanted him to reassure her that her moving on was OK, that she hadn't screwed him over and he wasn't angry at her for being with someone else already. Maybe she was projecting-- he said she was really a jealous person and if the shoe were on the other foot and he was engaged 2 months after their breeakup, she definitely would have been angry.

The question in my mind would be, "Did she go to the grocery store to buy eggs and bacon and breakfast food for this purpose?" because that would seem much more premeditated than just showing up one morning and cooking whatever happened to be in the cupboard. (I guarantee you, you wouldn't find breakfast food in this bachelor's pantry.)

She made eggs and toast, which he tends to have in stock. You're right, it would have been a magnitude more weird if she'd brought food. I still think it's odd that she came over in the morning like that. But I think she's a bit of a nut anyway.

[kittenblue]

My take on all this is that she's not feeling bad about the speed of the new relationship, but the sex is not as good with the new guy. She knows the new guy is a better guy all around, and a better future husband, but he doesn't rock her world the way your guy did. So she comes over, hoping he'll be so upset at losing her for good that he will toss her on the bed and make love to her one last time (or possibly ask her to come back) and she will either have the satisfaction of one last time, or the satisfaction of breaking his heart by sticking with the new guy. She's nervous about all this, and feeling guilty for wanting to cheat on new guy, hence the tears. But she's also too shy to say, "Do me baby, one last time." When your guy reacts with polite indifference, she realizes it's a lost cause and accepts her new reality.

[Rubystreak]

My take on all this is that she's not feeling bad about the speed of the new relationship, but the sex is not as good with the new guy.

Huh. I wonder how you're figuring this. He said once they broke up and she moved out, he never felt like she wanted him back, and it felt like it was mutually over. That's why he doubted that she was making a come-on when she showed up for breakfast. He felt like she was just worried that he would hate her or be angry for her rebounding so fast.

She knows the new guy is a better guy all around, and a better future husband, but he doesn't rock her world the way your guy did.

Her loss is certainly my gain. :D

She's nervous about all this, and feeling guilty for wanting to cheat on new guy, hence the tears. But she's also too shy to say, "Do me baby, one last time." When your guy reacts with polite indifference, she realizes it's a lost cause and accepts her new reality.

I do think this is a little far-fetched.

[kittenblue]

Why is it far-fetched? I re-read your OP, and you said she was not very happy about the break-up. You also said he was done with the relationship long before they actually moved apart, so he had already emotionally detached. And you also said she said she's found someone sensitive and nice, which implies that he was not very tuned in to her feelings. If she's not particularly aggressive about stating what she needs and wants in a relationship, it seems entirely possible that he would not get the signals that she would be open to getting him back. Her coming around wanting to be "friends" is certainly a signal of some kind! I think it's far more far-fetched that she would think he would be angry or hurt about her moving on so quickly on the rebound, since it didn't sound like he was ever the one to seek her out...she always came to him. It would have been fairly obvious to her that he didn't mind her getting on with her life...unless he had tried to warn her about "too fast, too soon". And it doesn't sound like he did.

So I stand by my interpretation!

[Spidey]

She's definitly trying to provoke a reaction out of this guy. Either "haha look what ive got, ive moved on with my life" or "wont you please say something romantic and give me a reason to get back with you". Otherwise, I think this is pretty inconsiderate and mean on her part, as she shouldn't be telling (showing off?) every new date/prospect she has to her old boyfriend. He may be happy to know that she is getting on with her life, but he doesn't need to hear every relationship update from her right away. If it were me, I'd prefer hearing this sort of news a few months later, preferably with a buffer of 1000 km or so. She should realize that he may still need time to get over this break up, and that discussing future boyfriends/husbands with him may only upset him.

By the way, "Agenda" does have a negative connotation, maybe that influenced my response in some way.

[Rubystreak]

As for her not being happy about the break-up... I think he was more done than she was. I also think she didn't want to move back in with her mother. He was supporting her financially until he lost his job, and then he was home all the time. The fighting, apparently, was out of hand. They were getting to the point when they hated each other. Maybe, once she moved out, she remembered why she used to like him. Too late by then...

She's definitly trying to provoke a reaction out of this guy. Either "haha look what ive got, ive moved on with my life" or "wont you please say something romantic and give me a reason to get back with you". Otherwise, I think this is pretty inconsiderate and mean on her part, as she shouldn't be telling (showing off?) every new date/prospect she has to her old boyfriend.

At this point, they were in touch. She'd come over to hang out with him every couple of weeks, trying to be friends. He was OK with this, not necessarily encouraging her or anything. He doesn't like to stay friends with his exes, but isn't mean either.

He may be happy to know that she is getting on with her life, but he doesn't need to hear every relationship update from her right away. If it were me, I'd prefer hearing this sort of news a few months later, preferably with a buffer of 1000 km or so. She should realize that he may still need time to get over this break up, and that discussing future boyfriends/husbands with him may only upset him.

It wouldn't upset him. If it upset him, he wouldn't have broken up with her. Like I said, I think she felt guilt and was worried what he'd think. She thought he'd be angry and wonder if she'd cheated. Turned out he didn't give a crap.

By the way, "Agenda" does have a negative connotation, maybe that influenced my response in some way.

I meant it to have the connotation, "a plan or motivation not openly stated." She did, but I don't think it was to fuck him or anything. This thread has convinced me of that.

[Rubystreak]

If she's not particularly aggressive about stating what she needs and wants in a relationship, it seems entirely possible that he would not get the signals that she would be open to getting him back.

This is what I thought at first. I really did, because he is truly clueless and probably would not realize if she was coming on to him. That's why I titled the thread "what is her agenda?"

Her coming around wanting to be "friends" is certainly a signal of some kind!

Maybe she really did want to be friends? I mean, he is an extraordinarily cool, fun person. I suspect that, once she wasn't living with him and got some perspective on him, she remembered that he is a great person to hang out with and missed that. You can miss parts of someone you used to love without wanting to get them back romantically.

I think it's far more far-fetched that she would think he would be angry or hurt about her moving on so quickly on the rebound, since it didn't sound like he was ever the one to seek her out...

Apparently, she specifically stated that she didn't want him to think she had another guy lined up before she left him, and felt bad that he might feel betrayed by her engagement. I know that, when my relationship of 4 years broke up, and my ex was living with someone else two months later, I was bitter about it. Not because he cheated, and not because I still wanted him. Believe me. More like, "What a dick, he really is fickle, isn't he?"

she always came to him. It would have been fairly obvious to her that he didn't mind her getting on with her life...unless he had tried to warn her about "too fast, too soon". And it doesn't sound like he did.

So I stand by my interpretation!

Would she give up that easily? We haven't had another incident. She doesn't come over anymore. It seems that her engagement ended the friendship. I don't know...