It's the Twenty Fucking First Century, So Why CAN'T We Cure the Common Cold?

[Tuckerfan]

I have a particularly nasty cold at the moment, my sinuses ooze gunk down the back of my throat, my bottom ribs are sore from trying to cough my lungs out, my eyes feel like they're filled with sludge, and I feel like crap in general. Were I Martian, I'd be dead by now.

You'd think that I'd be able to go to the doc, get a shot in the butt, and in a couple of hours be fine, but noooooo! That's not possible. The only "treatments" available to me are: Nyquil, chicken soup, fluids (I'm drinking enough fluids right now that I can hardly go an hour without having to take a piss), and bed rest.

Oh, but Tucker, you say, we can't cure the common cold. It's caused by a virus and it's constantly mutating, so anything we develop to try and cure a cold, would soon be ineffective.

BULLSHIT!!! Yes, the virus does mutate, but it doesn't mutate all that much. If it did, Nyquil would have to change their slogan from the stuffy head, achy, etc., etc., etc. to something else every year. The symptoms stay the same. No one has ever been rushed to the hospital because their nutsack suddenly exploded and has been told that they have a cold. That means a good portion of the virus doesn't change. Even SARS wasn't all that different than a regular cold virus.

Anyone who's had 7th grade biology knows how viruses work: The virus sneaks up on some unsuspecting cell and proceeds to sodomize it until the cell agrees to start spitting out copies of the virus like some Chinese factory worker cranking out Kathy Lee Gifford sweaters. We've mapped the human genenome, the genenome of chimps, and a bunch of other species, we just need to map the genenome of the cold virus. Somewhere, in it, is a sequence of genes that make it a virus and not, say, a grapefruit tree. We find that sequence, figure out a way to block it, and wham! No more cold virus! Yea!

And don't hand me this crap that that's way too complicated for us to figure out. We're sticking fish genes into tomatoes, making glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbits, and crossing humans with cows and rabbits. If we can do that shit, we can figure out how to kill the common cold. Trust me.

Oh, but where will we ever get the money to pay for all this? It'll be soooooo expensive! I'll tell you where we'll get the money: Slap a 10 cent tax on every cold remedy sold (50 cents if it's "homeopathic" :rolleyes: ) and at the end of the cold and flu season, we'll have more than enough money to pay for all the research (don't forget that the guys running meth labs buy that stuff by the case, so there'll be a steady income all year round). Come on, you lab coated bastards, get on this.

[Revtim]

Don't you think if that were possible, someone would have done it already? They would stand to make some money from it, I'm sure.

[indecisive1]

I'd only be willing to pay about $50.00 to have my cold cured. Otherwise I'd just tough it out for a week. Not much potential profit may be part of the problem.

Sorry you're feeling bad!

[matt_mcl]

As I understand it, it's not that the virus mutates every year, it's that a buttload of different viruses cause similar symptoms.

[Hal Briston]

But we can cure it...at least here on the board we can: Conclusive evidence (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368898)

[BrainGlutton]

I think the problem is not that viruses mutate. Bacteria mutate, but that does not make antibiotics ineffective; it does lead to an endless war of shifting fronts, as some strains become resistant to the antibiotics we have and we need to develop new ones -- but bacterial diseases and infections are still much easier to treat, by and large, than before penicillin was discovered. No, the problem is that we have no broad-spectrum antiviral drugs at all, no viral analogue to penicillin.

If you have a problem with that, give as much as you can to AIDS research -- not just to fight that particular disease, but because if the doctors can crack that one, they almost certainly will be able to cure viral diseases of all kinds, including colds. Spinoff, you know.

This thread really belongs in GQ or GD, but the title would need editing . . .

[Tuckerfan]

Don't you think if that were possible, someone would have done it already? They would stand to make some money from it, I'm sure.
Well, it's been possible for us to go to the Marianas Trench, but we've only done it once. For twenty minutes.

Seriously, though, it costs big bucks to run gene sequencers, biiiig bucks, and they tend to like to use them on "sexy" things that'll enable them to shout, "We've found the gene for aging!" or what have you. A cold, is a minor irritant, at best. I'd be willing to bet that they simply haven't thought of going after the cold virus this way. I'm also willing to bet that once they crack the exact mechanism of a virus, they'll soon figure out that they all have an identical mechanism (Mother Nature tends to be a bit lazy when it comes to evolution), so a treatment that handles one virus will work on all of them. (My understanding is that research into block the reproduction of the AIDS virus has led to drugs which reduce the rate of flu virus reproduction.)

[WhyNot]

As I understand it, it's not that the virus mutates every year, it's that a buttload of different viruses cause similar symptoms.
Right. There are approximately 8,432 different illnesses (number procured from my gluteal region) with people call, "I hab a cowd". So it's not one virus you're looking for an anti-viral for, it's thousands.

It's also why internet diagnosis is so bad: I have congestion, shortness of breath and coughing with copious mucus that's hard to cough up. So do I have "a cold" or TB or bronchitis or allergies or...? Differential diagnosis is needed, but for your run of the mill short term illness involving congestion, coughing and runny nose, it's not worth the time and effort to do so. Call it "a cold", treat it symptomatically and you'll get better soon.

[susan]

There isn't such a thing as "the common cold." Sorry. There's just a huge wad of viruses that have in common that they make you sneeze. There are only so many mechanisms for blowing stuff out of your body. Sorry you have a cold, though.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Well you maybe can't cure it but I'm totally sold on the ginseng extract prep they sell here as a cold preventative. Three times over the past 18 months or so I've begun to have cold symptoms and killed it dead with the stuff. Last time was particularly impressive. I get sick one of two ways; either I cough lots over the course of a day or else I have a nose that runs and runs and won't stop. Both those things invariably signal the beginning of illness.

A couple weeks ago, I had the 'blow nose all day' syndrome. Filled - literally - half a garbage can with used tissues. Figured I was hooped and that because I hadn't taken the ginseng stuff right at the onset of symptoms (which began as I was walking to work) it would be too late to forestall the ailment. Nonetheless I started the course of treatment (you take 3 pills thrice the first day, 2 pills thrice the second, and then 1 pill thrice the third). Damned if it didn't completely subside!!! I was a little headachy and tired for a couple days but rather than progressing to a full-blown cold (which for me means graduating to a cough that lasts weeks), it went completely away.

According to the website, the makers have conducted seven clinical trials and have published in peer-reviewed journals. As far as I'm concerned, it's the real deal.

[Der Trihs]

There are hundreds of cold viruses, and they evolve. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold) :

The common cold is caused by numerous viruses (mainly rhinoviruses, coronaviruses, and also certain echoviruses, paramyxoviruses, and coxsackieviruses) infecting the upper respiratory system. Several hundred cold-causing viruses have been described, and a virus can evolve to survive, ensuring that any cure is still a long way off.

< snip >

Because of the large variety of viruses causing the common cold, vaccination is impractical. Also, IIRC no one's ever created a direct cure for any virus; as said, there's no penicillin for viruses. We have drugs that slow some of them, and vaccines. Slowing isn't curing, and vaccines only mobilize the immune system against a particular virus. As the article says, that's impractical to do beforehand, and as for after infection, our immune system already handles colds just fine.

So, a common cold cure would need to do something that's never been done, do it for hundreds of viruses, do it faster that the immune system can, and do it cheaply enough that people won't just tough it out.

[Chefguy]

Suffer, bitch.

[Plynck]

...until the cell agrees to start spitting out copies of the virus like some Chinese factory worker cranking out Kathy Lee Gifford sweaters...Now here, instead of bringing the Chinese into this, I would have instead made a reference to the Flemish.

[Canadjun]

Yes, the virus does mutate, but it doesn't mutate all that much. If it did, Nyquil would have to change their slogan from the stuffy head, achy, etc., etc., etc. to something else every year. The symptoms stay the same.
Ever notice how there's a new flu shot every year? As well, flu shots typically include vaccines for several different flu viruses. And yet, flu symptoms are more or less unchanged from year to year. The fact that a virus or other micro-organism for a given disease mutates might change the symptoms, but it certainly doesn't have to.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

I'd be willing to bet that they simply haven't thought of going after the cold virus this way. I'm also willing to bet that once they crack the exact mechanism of a virus, they'll soon figure out that they all have an identical mechanism (Mother Nature tends to be a bit lazy when it comes to evolution), so a treatment that handles one virus will work on all of them. (My understanding is that research into block the reproduction of the AIDS virus has led to drugs which reduce the rate of flu virus reproduction.)
Since you've got the obvious expertise as to how this all works, I think we'll just leave it up to you. I know the task is beyond me and my colleagues at this time. And I bet KarlGauss defers the task too, and he's got a lot more experience & knowledge in the world of infectious disease than I do.

So get on it! Use your knowledge of how Nyquil works as an antimutagen and symptom reliever against a cold, and give us the cure.

[Tuckerfan]

Since you've got the obvious expertise as to how this all works, I think we'll just leave it up to you. I know the task is beyond me and my colleagues at this time. And I bet KarlGauss defers the task too, and he's got a lot more experience & knowledge in the world of infectious disease than I do.

So get on it! Use your knowledge of how Nyquil works as an antimutagen and symptom reliever against a cold, and give us the cure.
:p Niquil isn't even a good symptom reliever, since cough suppressants don't work. Believe me, if I had the cash, I'd happily pour it into medical research (as well as a few other areas). I'm a smoker, and I'm eagerly awaiting the day when they can clone lungs (a new set would come in handy when I have a cold, too, now that I think about it, but that's kind of like chopping off your head to cure a headache).

[Jake]

Coxsackieviruses? Some kind of Chinese STD virus? :D

[Stranger On A Train]

Anyone who's had 7th grade biology knows how viruses work: The virus sneaks up on some unsuspecting cell and proceeds to sodomize it until the cell agrees to start spitting out copies of the virus like some Chinese factory worker cranking out Kathy Lee Gifford sweaters. We've mapped the human genenome, the genenome of chimps, and a bunch of other species, we just need to map the genenome of the cold virus. Somewhere, in it, is a sequence of genes that make it a virus and not, say, a grapefruit tree. We find that sequence, figure out a way to block it, and wham! No more cold virus! Yea!

And don't hand me this crap that that's way too complicated for us to figure out. We're sticking fish genes into tomatoes, making glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbits, and crossing humans with cows and rabbits. If we can do that shit, we can figure out how to kill the common cold. Trust me.*shakes head* This is what happens with just a little bit of knowledge.

Trust me--"anyone who's had 7th grade biology" doesn't know jack shit about how viruses actually work; all they know is the Reader's Digest Abridged Books version with simple language and four-color diagrams. How viruses work is a major, active field of study (virology) which receives heavy funding from both the government and private industry. Many viruses have had their genomes mapped out extensively (since viruses typically have noncomplex genomes in comparison to even the most primitive animal or plant, this is cheap, especially with modern process). However, mapping out a genome is only a very tiny step toward understanding how it functions (and more importantly with regard to viruses, how to make it stop functioning). And the range of virus species are enormous; it is essentially impossible at this point to make an accurate survey of the number of virus species extant; currently identified species number around 4000, but the true number is likely to be in the millions (depending now how you define speciation for a non-sexually-reproducing quasi-organism).

Viruses are particularly tricky to target, because techincally speaking, they're not alive. Lacking any indentifiable waste or respiration processes of their own, they're the equivilent of a biological stealth cruise missile; you don't see it until it's already penetrated the defenses and is raining fire on the target. For the most part, it's very, very difficult to distinguish a virus from a random, inert complex protein until it invades a cell and turns the organelles over to producing more viruses. Heck, most viruses (particularly ones that are well adapted) offer little or no symptoms, and some may even be beneficial in a symboitic fashion. Ebola and other hemorrhagic viruses, for instance, are actually poorly adapted, and their lethality on the host prevents wide reproduction. Viruses like HPV, SV-40, or the varicella-zoster virus are virtually universal in humans because of how generally benign they are to overall reproductive functioning.

Gene splicing (making glow-in-the-dark fish, or tomatos with high calcium levels) is tedious business, but not that technically complex; while I'm grossly oversimplying here, you basically identify a nucleotide sequence that appears to be associated with a particular gene expression and keep on splicing it into your target species until something takes, or you figure out that the interactions with other genes prevent correct expression. It's hard, demanding work to be sure, but nothing on the order of difficulty of finding a mechanism to identify and inhibit a virus.

Frankly, it's probably a lot easier to modify the human genome and cellular mechanics to be resistant to the action of current viruses than it would be to try to root out and destroy the viruses themselves. Not that this is easy (or at this point, remotely plausible) but the elimination of viruses is vastly more difficult and complex than you understand it to be.

Stranger

[ralph124c]

I too was a skeptic-but my wife and I now take 500 mgrams a day-we have been for 4 years now, and we NEVER get colds. Before this, I would get -10 very bad colds every winter-they would last 2 weeks from start to finish..starting with scratchy throat, to nasal cogestion, to cough,etc. Now, I might get a sniffle-but its gone in a day. I can truly say Linus Pauling was right on this one.

[Derleth]

I too was a skeptic-but my wife and I now take 500 mgrams a day-we have been for 4 years now, and we NEVER get colds.Don't forget the dinosaur fossils. Judging from the size of the industry, hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in China swear by them.

And, of course, pray to Inanna. Do not pray to anything else, as blasphemy is sure to ruin your day. Questioning this order is blasphemy of the rankest sort.

[Waenara]

I would get -10 very bad colds every winter-they would last 2 weeks from start to finish...Methinks you're misremembering. If you had a time machine and could go back and impartially observe, the number of colds and/or their severity would probably be less than you think.

10 colds x 2 weeks = 20 weeks

A year has 52 weeks.

I don't see how you could have 20 weeks of cold in the winter, as 20 weeks would be almost half a year.

[Tuckerfan]

*shakes head* This is what happens with just a little bit of knowledge.

Trust me--"anyone who's had 7th grade biology" doesn't know jack shit about how viruses actually work; all they know is the Reader's Digest Abridged Books version with simple language and four-color diagrams. How viruses work is a major, active field of study (virology) which receives heavy funding from both the government and private industry. Many viruses have had their genomes mapped out extensively (since viruses typically have noncomplex genomes in comparison to even the most primitive animal or plant, this is cheap, especially with modern process). However, mapping out a genome is only a very tiny step toward understanding how it functions (and more importantly with regard to viruses, how to make it stop functioning). And the range of virus species are enormous; it is essentially impossible at this point to make an accurate survey of the number of virus species extant; currently identified species number around 4000, but the true number is likely to be in the millions (depending now how you define speciation for a non-sexually-reproducing quasi-organism).So, let me get this straight, we've mapped the genome of several different viruses, but that isn't going to help us, since nobody knows how many different viruses there are. Wha? Why can't you take, for example, the genome maps of say, one of the common cold viruses, the herpies virus, and the ebola virus, stick them side by side, look for the sequences they have in common and say, "Aha! That's what makes these things viruses! Let's start screwing up those areas!"? If they all have one (or more) things in common, going after those should yield a weapon against viruses in general.

Viruses are particularly tricky to target, because techincally speaking, they're not alive. Lacking any indentifiable waste or respiration processes of their own, they're the equivilent of a biological stealth cruise missile; you don't see it until it's already penetrated the defenses and is raining fire on the target. For the most part, it's very, very difficult to distinguish a virus from a random, inert complex protein until it invades a cell and turns the organelles over to producing more viruses. Heck, most viruses (particularly ones that are well adapted) offer little or no symptoms, and some may even be beneficial in a symboitic fashion. Ebola and other hemorrhagic viruses, for instance, are actually poorly adapted, and their lethality on the host prevents wide reproduction. Viruses like HPV, SV-40, or the varicella-zoster virus are virtually universal in humans because of how generally benign they are to overall reproductive functioning. Viruses are a helluvalot easier to figure out than prions, which appear to a protein where the folding has gone all funhouse mirror origami on you. Nor are viruses totally stealth, since the immune system can be trained to recognize the protein coat around the virus (which is how some vaccines work, IIRC).

Gene splicing (making glow-in-the-dark fish, or tomatos with high calcium levels) is tedious business, but not that technically complex; while I'm grossly oversimplying here, you basically identify a nucleotide sequence that appears to be associated with a particular gene expression and keep on splicing it into your target species until something takes, or you figure out that the interactions with other genes prevent correct expression. It's hard, demanding work to be sure, but nothing on the order of difficulty of finding a mechanism to identify and inhibit a virus. IIRC, at least some gene splicing involves using a virus to deliver the new genes. So it appears we've got part of the equation figured out.

Frankly, it's probably a lot easier to modify the human genome and cellular mechanics to be resistant to the action of current viruses than it would be to try to root out and destroy the viruses themselves. Not that this is easy (or at this point, remotely plausible) but the elimination of viruses is vastly more difficult and complex than you understand it to be.

StrangerWhich reminds me, the government spent millions of dollars to breed mice with no immune system, so that they could transplant a human immune system into the mice, so that they could study HIV because mice don't get AIDS. What I don't understand is why they didn't figure out why mice don't get AIDS and then work to put that in humans. Growing fur and developing a cheese fixation is a small price to pay to not have to worry about AIDS, don't you think?

[Stranger On A Train]

So, let me get this straight, we've mapped the genome of several different viruses, but that isn't going to help us, since nobody knows how many different viruses there are. Wha? Why can't you take, for example, the genome maps of say, one of the common cold viruses, the herpies virus, and the ebola virus, stick them side by side, look for the sequences they have in common and say, "Aha! That's what makes these things viruses! Let's start screwing up those areas!"? If they all have one (or more) things in common, going after those should yield a weapon against viruses in general.No, you can't do this. Rather than write a heavily cited eight page post on why this idea is fundamentally oversimplified, I'm just going to refer you to Human Virology (http://www.amazon.com/Human-Virology-Leslie-Collier/dp/0198566603/). If you have any serious intention to understand how viruses function, what triggers an effective immune response, and why viruses are so hard to combat pharmaceutically, you'll read (or at least skim) this book. If you just want to rant at the scientific and medical establishment for not suddenly pulling some magical cure out of their collective ass, I can't really help you.

With regard to the health issues pertaining to the inhalation of alkaline, toxic aerosols, there's a very simple way to alieviate the damage done to the respiratory system and reduce the incidence of chronic illness therefrom to almost negligable levels without cloning and surgically implanting any organs, and that is by abstaining from said activity.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

No, you can't do this. Rather than write a heavily cited eight page post on why this idea is fundamentally oversimplified, I'm just going to refer you to Human Virology (http://www.amazon.com/Human-Virology-Leslie-Collier/dp/0198566603/). If you have any serious intention to understand how viruses function, what triggers an effective immune response, and why viruses are so hard to combat pharmaceutically, you'll read (or at least skim) this book. If you just want to rant at the scientific and medical establishment for not suddenly pulling some magical cure out of their collective ass, I can't really help you.Quitter! :p

With regard to the health issues pertaining to the inhalation of alkaline, toxic aerosols, there's a very simple way to alieviate the damage done to the respiratory system and reduce the incidence of chronic illness therefrom to almost negligable levels without cloning and surgically implanting any organs, and that is by abstaining from said activity.

Stranger
Very funny, spoken by someone who obviously has no understanding of how difficult it is to quit butts. Not to mention that quitting doesn't drop my risk of getting lung cancer, etc., down to the levels of someone who's never smoked.

[Rysdad]

Now here, instead of bringing the Chinese into this, I would have instead made a reference to the Flemish.

*golf clap*

[Stranger On A Train]

Very funny, spoken by someone who obviously has no understanding of how difficult it is to quit butts. Not to mention that quitting doesn't drop my risk of getting lung cancer, etc., down to the levels of someone who's never smoked.*shrug* There are workable pharmaceutical aids for the ceasation of smoking that are availble OTC or with a simple prescription that show dramatic efficacy, and they can significantly reduce the incidence or progression of chronic illness. Any technology regarding the cloning and replacement of major organs is speculative at best, and patently delusional (within the next 20-30 years) at worst. Relying on such methods to prevent or treat illnesses pertaining to smoking is blythe obliviousness.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

*shrug* There are workable pharmaceutical aids for the ceasation of smoking that are availble OTC or with a simple prescription that show dramatic efficacy, and they can significantly reduce the incidence or progression of chronic illness. Any technology regarding the cloning and replacement of major organs is speculative at best, and patently delusional (within the next 20-30 years) at worst. Relying on such methods to prevent or treat illnesses pertaining to smoking is blythe obliviousness.

Stranger
I've tried Wellbutrin and was phsycially unable to eat while taking it. If it was as easy as popping a pill, don't you think that most people would do it?

[betenoir]

I could be wrong here but I believe cold symptoms are not so much an effect of the virus as the bodies reaction to having a virus. All that stuff coming out of you nose is the noble little white blood cells that died so you might live. Thank them before you throw that tissue in the wastebasket.

What I'm saying is it makes perfect sense that different viruses would produce the same symptoms. This is what are bodies do to combat the buggers.

[Tuckerfan]

I could be wrong here but I believe cold symptoms are not so much an effect of the virus as the bodies reaction to having a virus. All that stuff coming out of you nose is the noble little white blood cells that died so you might live. Thank them before you throw that tissue in the wastebasket.

What I'm saying is it makes perfect sense that different viruses would produce the same symptoms. This is what are bodies do to combat the buggers.
You're partially correct in that the symptoms are a manifestation in many cases of the body's reaction to fighting off the virus, but viruses also "target" certain parts of the body (in some cases). While some of the body's reactions to ebola are going to be the same as a cold, a good many others are not. A trained medical professional can look at a patient and weed out a number of diseases based on the symptoms alone. Tests will further refine the diagnosis, and hopefully, point out a method of treatment.

[Aquila Be]

My sympathies re your illness.

Strictly personal, but after I first moved from a country area to a city I found I developed eight to ten colds a year, some of them quite severe, and this lasted right through my twenties.

Now, I get maybe one barely noticeable cold every three or four years or so. I think I must be immune to all the serious cold viruses now so I never worry about them any more.

It's one of the advantages of ageing, I suppose.

[PunditLisa]

Forget battling colds. Why don't researchers focus on the important things and create a nail polish that doesn't chip???

[Boyo Jim]

It's the 21st century! I should be snorting vitamin-enriched cocaine off the tits of my sex robot -- what went wrong?
-- Greg Giraldo

[Guinastasia]

Forget battling colds. Why don't researchers focus on the important things and create a nail polish that doesn't chip???


NOW you're talkin' progress!!!

[ralph124c]

My late grandfather (paased away at 84) was a heavy smoker. He smoked a pipe constantly-he favored very strong cavendish tobacco, and whn the pipe wasn't lit, he smoked cigars-the man was a walking chimney! I NEVER once remeber him having a cold-perhaps the nicotine kept the virus at bay?

[chowder]

Just bragging here.
I have never had a cold......never[I].

Years ago my doctor asked if I'd attend the cold research centre which at the time was in Leicester (I think)

I asked if there was any payment, he said no and so did I

[Chefguy]

Suffer, bitch.

Oops. Just read through the thread again and could have sworn I clicked the smiley before submitting. Sorry. Here ya go: :D :D :D

[Apos]

Let's face it: virus pown you. They get into you and they manipulate you like a puppet. It's no side-effect that the common cold makes you cough, makes you drool mucus everywhere, makes you seek the indoor comforts of close spaces with your fellows. That's how it transmits itself: that's how it forces YOU to help it jump to other hosts.

And there's worse news. The primary way we treat the illness is by medicines that cut down on the symptoms we don't like: the very things the virus relies on to transmit itself. We don't hurt the virus directly by doing this of course. And what's the long term evolutionary trend with this pressure if we are successful in eliminating all these bad symptoms? The virus simply becomes even more virulent: breaking through the "cures" to make us just as sneezy and snotty as before even when on the medicine: and probably near death without the medicine.

Honestly, the best way to treat the cold would not be to treat the symptoms, but to encourage more benign forms and then work to transmit THEM faster than the more nasty colds.

[Der Trihs]

And there's worse news. The primary way we treat the illness is by medicines that cut down on the symptoms we don't like: the very things the virus relies on to transmit itself. We don't hurt the virus directly by doing this of course. And what's the long term evolutionary trend with this pressure if we are successful in eliminating all these bad symptoms? The virus simply becomes even more virulent: breaking through the "cures" to make us just as sneezy and snotty as before even when on the medicine: and probably near death without the medicine.Perhaps. Or perhaps they'll evolve to become more subtle, so we don't take medication in the first place. In the long run that's what I expect; no matter how nasty they get, we'll keep on trying to eliminate the symptoms and control it's spread even if we never manage a cure; they will always face that evolutionary pressure. On the other hand, a more mild, ignorable version won't face that pressure; it could spread without human interference, because we won't try to stop it, or possibly even notice it.

In fact, I vaguely recall some recent claims that that is the general trend in disease; that such things as sanitation and penicillin haven't actually reduced disease at all, but just caused a shift towards benign, unnoticable infections, or even just less-lethal versions.

[ParentalAdvisory]

I asked if there was any payment, he said no and so did I


Why do you hate humanity?

[Charger]

Why can't prevention be the cure? What I mean is, why can't my coworkers stay at home when they are sick (except that my boss tells us to come to work, to ensure complete office-wide infection)? If everyone who had a cold stayed away from others until it was out of their system, wouldn't every strain of the "common" cold virus eventually go extinct?

Whenever I catch a cold from someone at work (or the annual family "Christmas Sickness"), I stay at home and chug the chicken soup and orange juice until it dies on me. I refuse to give the cold the satisfaction of using me to find its next victim. Let that be a lesson to the other colds out there I haven't yet caught. If I catch you, you're going down the toilet in a pungent, lumpy mass of pulp.

[Carnick]

Goddamn viruses. They're so much smaller than us, can't we simply fucking step on them or something?

It's frustrating. We're so much bigger and smarter than them, but they still kick our asses. They're like Ewoks.

::cough::

::sneeze::

Assholes.

[chowder]

Why do you hate humanity?

Cuz they are full of disease :eek: :D

[Smeghead]

The real fault lies not with the virii, but with your own body. The thing is, the part of the immune system that patrols the mucus membranes, where colds do their thing, doesn't have a very good memory. You know how with a lot of viruses, like, say, chicken pox, one exposure makes you immune for life? Well, not so much with this part of the immune system. Immunity wears off in a matter of months.

So, considering how many viruses can give you a cold, you'd need a couple thousand vaccines. And then you'd need to get revaccinated three or four times a year. Personally, I'd rather just deal with the occasional stuffy nose.

So blame your body as much as the little buggers that do the nasty work! Medicine still relies to a huge extent upon our own internal systems, and in this case, we're just not really up to the job.

[chorpler]

I could be wrong here but I believe cold symptoms are not so much an effect of the virus as the bodies reaction to having a virus. All that stuff coming out of you nose is the noble little white blood cells that died so you might live. Thank them before you throw that tissue in the wastebasket.

What I'm saying is it makes perfect sense that different viruses would produce the same symptoms. This is what are bodies do to combat the buggers.

Actually, if I recall correctly from reading a question dealing with this topic in a virology FAQ, a runny nose is not an effective way to fight a virus, and it's not a mechanism used to combat the virus, and it's not white blood cells (well, not most of it, anyway). The virus actually hijacks the normal mechanisms used to keep the inside of your sinuses nice and moist in order to help spread itself -- it just rides the wild river out of your nose and onto your hands, where it can handily (har!) infect others. And meanwhile, there are still zillions of viruses tucked safely inside your nasal lining cells where you can't get rid of them no matter how much you blow your nose.

[Uvula Donor]

Oops. Just read through the thread again and could have sworn I clicked the smiley before submitting. Sorry.

It was funnier without.

[dre2xl]

I've tried Wellbutrin and was phsycially unable to eat while taking it. If it was as easy as popping a pill, don't you think that most people would do it?
Funny, my parents quit cold turkey and never looked back.

And, come on, at least *think* a little bit about what you're saying. Even if viri were readily distinguished by what's in their DNA, the only way to take advantage of that is by millions of little science-fiction nanomachines that somehow puncture cells' nuclei and then read DNA, and you'd end up destroying a lot of non-virus cells which kinda defeats the whole point of the nanomachines. Think and apply what you're saying, dammit.

[chowder]

Is it not likely that if we had used the money spent on armaments over the past 150 years for medical research we could have found a cure not just for the common cold but also for cancer and other life threatening disease.

Billions upon billions spent on finding better ways to kill our "enemies" when the real enemy is disease.

When will we ever learn

[dre2xl]

My late grandfather (paased away at 84) was a heavy smoker. He smoked a pipe constantly-he favored very strong cavendish tobacco, and whn the pipe wasn't lit, he smoked cigars-the man was a walking chimney! I NEVER once remeber him having a cold-perhaps the nicotine kept the virus at bay?
The number of colds you get diminish as you get older, since your immune system builds antibiotics & makes sure you don't get the same cold twice.

[dre2xl]

er, antibodies not antibiotics.

[Stranger On A Train]

Is it not likely that if we had used the money spent on armaments over the past 150 years for medical research we could have found a cure not just for the common cold but also for cancer and other life threatening disease.

Billions upon billions spent on finding better ways to kill our "enemies" when the real enemy is disease.While I can't disagree with the notion that we'd be far better off spending money on basic research and developing technologies that benefit humanity rather than blow it into tiny pieces, it's not just a matter of research dollars to breakthrough cures. There are, for lack of a better term, technical thresholds that have to be achieved before you can move onto the next step, and it's as much talent, education, and a big dollop of serendipity that gets you there.

And while weapons are, in general form, a bad idea, many good things have come from weapons research and development. The integrated circuit microprocessor you're using traces it's lineage back to the guidence computer development for the Minuteman II missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_missile#Minuteman-II_.28LGM-30F.29), and the fancy, world-spanning network you're connected to is a direct development of the SAGE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi_Automatic_Ground_Environment) air defense network system.

Stranger

[Lemur866]

Is it not likely that if we had used the money spent on armaments over the past 150 years for medical research we could have found a cure not just for the common cold but also for cancer and other life threatening disease.

Billions upon billions spent on finding better ways to kill our "enemies" when the real enemy is disease.

When will we ever learn
Or maybe if we all thought like you do, we'd all be speaking German today. Or Carthaginian.

[Tuckerfan]

Funny, my parents quit cold turkey and never looked back.They're in the minority, then.

And, come on, at least *think* a little bit about what you're saying. Even if viri were readily distinguished by what's in their DNA, the only way to take advantage of that is by millions of little science-fiction nanomachines that somehow puncture cells' nuclei and then read DNA, and you'd end up destroying a lot of non-virus cells which kinda defeats the whole point of the nanomachines. Think and apply what you're saying, dammit.The one who needs to think, here, is you. How do you think our body recognizes invading microorganisms? By jabbing a tendril into every random cell? No, by checking the protein coat that the virus manufactures, that protein coat isn't just randomly created every time a virus makes a new copy of itself. That protein coat's structure is controlled by the virus's genetic material, and that protein coat is the key component of vaccines that are used to fight things like the flu, and various other diseases.

Nor do we need to use nano-style machines to go after viruses based on their DNA. Presently the cocktails that AIDS patients take include drugs designed to short circuit the replication of the HIV virus. These drugs do not stop the cells of the patient's body from replicating (otherwise they'd never be able to heal from a cut).

[Stranger On A Train]

The one who needs to think, here, is you. How do you think our body recognizes invading microorganisms? By jabbing a tendril into every random cell? No, by checking the protein coat that the virus manufactures, that protein coat isn't just randomly created every time a virus makes a new copy of itself. That protein coat's structure is controlled by the virus's genetic material, and that protein coat is the key component of vaccines that are used to fight things like the flu, and various other diseases.You do not know what you are talking about, beyond a Popular Science level of understanding. Even after you map the genome of a virus, this doesn't mean that you can "read" the configuration of the protein coat that surrounds it. The protein folding problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_structure_prediction) is the hot topic in computational molecular biology today, and billions of dollars are being spent trying to develop a basic understanding and reliable prediction of how proteins are formed and shaped. And viruses, by their simple nature, can easily and functionally mutate, making the identification and suppression of them a Red Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen) style genetic arms race in which the virus has the insurgent guerilla's advantage of stealth and surprise.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

You do not know what you are talking about, beyond a Popular Science level of understanding.Oh, good, you caught me when I'm cranky. First of all, I'll plead "guilty" to not being virologist, I'll also plead "guilty" to oversimplifying things because I can't be bothered to dig through the assorted crap I have around here to find the things which discuss things like protein receptors, B and T cells of the immune system, and general immunilogical response to disease. Yes, I do realize that it is a bit more complicated then what I posted, but going into the level of detail with information I do have access to would add exactly what to the discussion? Most people would probably start slashing their wrists if they were forced to read through the kind of jargon found in your average medical journal. That's why they're not doctors. Even after you map the genome of a virus, this doesn't mean that you can "read" the configuration of the protein coat that surrounds it.No shit. Did I say that anywhere in this thread? No. The protein folding problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_structure_prediction) is the hot topic in computational molecular biology today, and billions of dollars are being spent trying to develop a basic understanding and reliable prediction of how proteins are formed and shaped.Again, no shit. Understanding protein folding will also pay off in fighting things other than viruses as well. Things like "mad cow," scrapie, and their analoges in humans to name but a few. And viruses, by their simple nature, can easily and functionally mutate, making the identification and suppression of them a Red Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen) style genetic arms race in which the virus has the insurgent guerilla's advantage of stealth and surprise.Again, no shit. Did I say that I should be able to go to the doctor and get a shot in the butt and never have to worry about getting a cold again? No. Nor does the fact that a virus can mutate mean that it is impossible to ever win a final victory against them. We've managed to eliminate smallpox, except for some lab samples, Gates has pledged billions to wipe out polio, and we've pretty much managed to do away with it in the US (IIRC, the only reported cases were due to a reaction to a type of vaccine that's no longer in use.). I'm too lazy to google up stats on disease, but I'd be willing to bet that there's a number of viruses we've managed to all but eliminate from the US thanks to things like manditory caccinations, improved sanitation and the like.

[chowder]

Or maybe if we all thought like you do, we'd all be speaking German today. Or Carthaginian.
No need for the snarkiness my friend, none at all

[Stranger On A Train]

Again, no shit. Did I say that I should be able to go to the doctor and get a shot in the butt and never have to worry about getting a cold again? No. Nor does the fact that a virus can mutate mean that it is impossible to ever win a final victory against them. We've managed to eliminate smallpox, except for some lab samples, Gates has pledged billions to wipe out polio, and we've pretty much managed to do away with it in the US (IIRC, the only reported cases were due to a reaction to a type of vaccine that's no longer in use.). I'm too lazy to google up stats on disease, but I'd be willing to bet that there's a number of viruses we've managed to all but eliminate from the US thanks to things like manditory caccinations, improved sanitation and the like.This is what I mean when I say that you don't really know what you're talking about, and I don't intend that statement as in insult, but rather as an encouragement to learn more about the topic. Comparing the several classes of viruses that collectively cause the syndrome colloquially known as "the common cold" to the Variola viruses that cause smallpox isn't just apples and oranges but more like pinapples and papayas. Most "cold" viruses are highly contageous airborne diseases which are mutable and adaptable, but except in rare cases, are not lethal. They're like little Mujahadeen troops, easily defeated in battle but always returning to launch more attacks.

Smallpox, on the other hand, is only moderately contageous, has no airborne vector (contact with fluid leaking from the pustules in contact with mucus membranes or via an open cut is the typical method of infection), and despite the uninformed public fears, is fatal only in a small proportion of cases for populations of predominantly Eurasian descent, particularly the more common but less virulent variety. (Its ferocious lethality upon the aborigonal populations of the Americas and in Oceania is the result of allopatric isoloation and limited genetic diversity.) The virus comes in two highly stable forms, V. major and V. minor, both of which the human immune system rapidly develops antibodies for and maintains lifelong resistance. Developing a vaccine for smallpox was so trivial that all it took was a serendipitous revelation by physician Edward Jenner and adaptation of a natural variant (the cowpox virus) to make an effective vaccine, and because it has a very limited transmission vector, simple public health measures, including precautionary vaccination, quarantine, sanitation, et cetera were sufficient to isolate and starve the virus of fresh meat.

Poliomyelitis, while more virulent and at least equally as contageous (it is transmitted by the fecal-oral route and can survive the highly acidic environment of the gastrointestional tract) is as easily contained by preventative measures (vaccines developed by Jonas Salk, and the mass inoculation virus later developed by Sabin, combined with improved public sanitation and sterilization of municipal water supplies) rendered the poliovirus incapable of effective transmission, virtually eliminating it in the Americas inside of a decade.

From your past postings and discussions, I know that you are an intelligent, curious, widely read person. Before railing at the medical research establishment for not coming up with a simple solution to this problem, please read up on the topic and understand why "curing the common cold" isn't as simple as just ginning up a simple cocktail of vaccines and inoculating the public at large.

Stranger

[Merkwurdigliebe]

Now here, instead of bringing the Chinese into this, I would have instead made a reference to the Flemish.
&*(^%&* Flemish! Taking all or jobs and stealing all our women...

[Polerius]

Or maybe if we all thought like you do, we'd all be speaking German today.
Yeah, but so what?
We'd all be speaking German and not getting colds. That doesn't sound too bad.






[Of course, being under a Nazi regime would be bad, which is what I assume you are referring to]

[Polerius]

I'd only be willing to pay about $50.00 to have my cold cured. Otherwise I'd just tough it out for a week.
You're willing to suffer for a whole week for $50?

I'd be surprised if many people in the developed world would put $50 above a week's sufferring.

[Harmonix]

I guess i'll pick up where Stranger on a train left off.

Tuckerfan


So, let me get this straight, we've mapped the genome of several different viruses, but that isn't going to help us, since nobody knows how many different viruses there are. Wha? Why can't you take, for example, the genome maps of say, one of the common cold viruses, the herpies virus, and the ebola virus, stick them side by side, look for the sequences they have in common and say, "Aha! That's what makes these things viruses! Let's start screwing up those areas!"? If they all have one (or more) things in common, going after those should yield a weapon against viruses in general.


I'd be willing to bet 100$ that many viruses have ZERO percent sequence homology(sequence sameness). This is because Viruses aren't all evolved from some common ancestor like the great majority of organisms alive today. Viruses are simple enough that they have spontaneously come into existance many many times over the history of life. No evolutionary history means no reason for them to have similar sequences/modes of action etc.

However, even if they all had a magical sequence in common so what? How're you going to even target that sequence? The mammalian immune system can't even do that and it has been fighting diseases for over 200 million years.

Theres plenty of non-specific antiviral chemicals out there. The problem is that they'll kill you just as easily as they'll kill your cold. Even the Anti-aids antivirals they have cytotoxic. They just happen to kill you slower then AIDS will. Therefore it makes sense to use them.


Which reminds me, the government spent millions of dollars to breed mice with no immune system, so that they could transplant a human immune system into the mice, so that they could study HIV because mice don't get AIDS. What I don't understand is why they didn't figure out why mice don't get AIDS and then work to put that in humans.


um mice have an HIV analog, It's called MIV.


virus can mutate mean that it is impossible to ever win a final victory against them. We've managed to eliminate smallpox,


Actually Smallpox was so easily eliminated because it DOESN'T mutate. Smallpox was so highly conserved that any deviation from it's sequence pretty much made it inviable.

[gigi]

No one has ever been rushed to the hospital because their nutsack suddenly exploded and has been told that they have a cold.reminds me of the informary at college. The joke was, no matter what you walked in with, you left with Cepacol lozenges and Advil.

[Greebo Ogg]

Coxsackieviruses? Some kind of Chinese STD virus? :D

I think that's the on that causes...

[QOUTE=Tuckerfan]....been rushed to the hospital because their nutsack suddenly exploded and has been told that they have a cold.[/QUOTE]

[WhyNot]

You're willing to suffer for a whole week for $50?

I'd be surprised if many people in the developed world would put $50 above a week's sufferring.
I've LOST more than $50 this week because I have a cold. Had to cancel over $200 worth of child care jobs because I don't want to get their babies sick. My husband missed two days of his work last week when he had it, so as a household we're out way more than $50. Not to mention probably $25 or so I've spent on OTC symptom relief that isn't working anyway. And I'm pretty sure I've now got an opportunistic bronchitis that pleasegod let it be bacterial (no crackling, but thick and pus filled with wheezing and a low grade fever), so I have to go spend money on a doc visit and antibiotics for that today. Wouldn't have that if the cold had been stopped on day one or two.

Yeah, I'd pay at least $50 for a cold cure.

[Tuckerfan]

I'd be willing to bet 100$ that many viruses have ZERO percent sequence homology(sequence sameness). This is because Viruses aren't all evolved from some common ancestor like the great majority of organisms alive today. Viruses are simple enough that they have spontaneously come into existance many many times over the history of life. No evolutionary history means no reason for them to have similar sequences/modes of action etc. Except Mother Nature is a lazy bitch and a number of species have been found to have developed identical or nearly identical solutions to problems even though they're seperated by vast distances and have no common ancestor.

However, even if they all had a magical sequence in common so what? How're you going to even target that sequence? The mammalian immune system can't even do that and it has been fighting diseases for over 200 million years. Gee, I don't know. I mean the immune system has been fighting things like cancer and we've not been able to do anything about that. Oh, wait. . .

Theres plenty of non-specific antiviral chemicals out there. The problem is that they'll kill you just as easily as they'll kill your cold. Even the Anti-aids antivirals they have cytotoxic. They just happen to kill you slower then AIDS will. Therefore it makes sense to use them.And last time I checked, the pharma companies were still researching for better ones, not resting on their laurels. Just because we don't have the perfect treatment today, doesn't mean we won't have it tomorrow.
um mice have an HIV analog, It's called MIV. Right, so as long as we slap a rubber on our willy before we have sex with mice, we should be okay.
Actually Smallpox was so easily eliminated because it DOESN'T mutate. Smallpox was so highly conserved that any deviation from it's sequence pretty much made it inviable.Given that the first vaccines for smallpox appeared in the 1800s, but it took us until the 20th Century to wipe it out, I wouldn't say that it was "easy." It took a concerted effort by the developed nations to get the vaccine out there and wipe the disease out. We're now attempting the same thing with polio.