Nikola Tesla

[indierock82]

Don't know if you guys have done a thread on Tesla ( I searched the forum, but on first glance didn't find anything conclusive).
Did Edison steal alot of the ideas that Tesla had discovered and then subsequently try and discredit Teslas work so that he couldn't claim otherwise?
I remember reading about this several years ago but don't remember the details of it.

[Stranger On A Train]

Edison "stole" ("was inspired by" would be more charitable, and perhaps more accurate) ideas from many other people, but Tesla's main offereings to the development of modern electrical generation and distribution systems (induction motor, polyphase power, alternativing current, and so forth) are well recognized as being largely or wholly developments created by him.

Tesla worked with, or perhaps for, Edison, when he first came to the US, but the two had a falling out (as Tesla did with numerous people, perhaps not without justification). Edison did stiff him a considerable promised sum (sources differ on the amount, but it was huge for that day) to perform development and improvement on the direct current generator. Tesla went on to work for George Westerhouse, eventually championing the three phase high voltage alternating current used (in some form) in most modern electrical distribution systems, and the standard AC industrial and residential currents. Edison tried to criticize the safety of AC in favor of his direct current system (most famously by executing an elephant, and leading to electrocution as a method of capital punishment) but obviously unscuccessfully. Ironically, in 1917, while Tesla was nearly destitute, owed back taxes, and struggling for investors in his research, he won the AIEE Edison Medal.

Tesla also made considerable contributions to the development of radio transmission. However, patents, public credit, and a Nobel Prize were awarded to Guglielmo Marconi and Karl Ferdinand Braun. Tesla had a famous battle, both in the courts and the public consciousness that he ultimately lost.

In later years, Tesla showed pronounced signs of obsessive-compulsive disorder and was known for championing many ideas that could charitably be called highly speculative (or more commonly, "crackpot crazy") and challenged what are now accepted ideas in relativity and then-nascent quantum physics. He died essentially destitute, despite being responsible for developing the founding principles of a massive, multi-billion dollar industry on which the modern industrial world is dependent. He does, though, have an award (the IEEE Nikola Tesla Award), a moon crater, and an SI unit named after him. Not a bad haul.

Stranger

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

. He does, though, have an award (the IEEE Nikola Tesla Award), a moon crater, and an SI unit named after him. Not a bad haul.

Stranger

An "SI unit"? :confused:

Enhance, please, Mr. Spork. :)

[Eleusis]

Excellent answer!

What was the deal with his big lightning doohickys?

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

What was the deal with his big lightning doohickys?

They thrilled all the girlies? :D

[friedo]

One tesla is equal to one weber per square meter.

[ralph124c]

Tesla was fascinasted with high-voltage discharges (lightning); he did pioneering work in high tension electronics. just how much of this research paid off is open to question. however, Tesla did a lot of other stuff-he had hundreds of patents in the areas of turbines, pumps, switches (he invented the "NAND" gate-fundamental to the digital computer-in 1898!). he also invented the automobile speedometer, and did research in metal refining. However, he was prone to extravagant claims, and was a loner-so a lot of his work was re-invented. He did invent most of the modern polyphase AC power distribution system, and put the mathematical analysis of AC circuits on a sound basis. No less an autjority as Dr. Charles Steinmetz gave him credit for this. Sadly, Tesla died alone and forgotten, in a NYC hotel room.

[Dragwyr]

Here is the Wikipedia article on Tesla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_tesla). The man led an interesting life, to say the least.

[CurtC]

An "SI unit"? :confused:

Enhance, please, Mr. Spork. :)SI is Système International d'Unités, the set of units of measurement used throughout the civilized world. Basically what Americans think of as the "metric system."

Other SI units include the gram, second, meter, liter, volt, watt, joule, ampere, ohm, coulombs, and newtons. The "tesla" is among these.

[Stranger On A Train]

An "SI unit"? :confused:

Enhance, please, Mr. Spork. :)SI is Système International d'Unités, the set of units of measurement used throughout the civilized world. Basically what Americans think of as the "metric system."Calling it the "metric" system is like calling a car a "transportation system". Yes, it is, but so is a bike, a train, and a horse. As CurtC notes, the rest of the world refers to it as the International System of Units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI) or somesuch.

The tesla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(unit)) is a unit of magnetic flux density; essentialy, the intensity of the magnetic field.

Stranger

[Tuckerfan]

Tesla also made considerable contributions to the development of radio transmission. However, patents, public credit, and a Nobel Prize were awarded to Guglielmo Marconi and Karl Ferdinand Braun. Tesla had a famous battle, both in the courts and the public consciousness that he ultimately lost. Actually, Tesla won the court case, but it was after the patents (and Tesla, IIRC) had expired, so it was a moot point.

Every now and then, someone digs up one of Tesla's ideas that's been laying around on a shelf and puts it to work. A few years ago, a university developed a nanopump using a one way valve originally designed by Tesla.

[Exapno Mapcase]

Sadly, Tesla died alone and forgotten, in a NYC hotel room.
This needs some context.

Tesla showed increasing eccentricities as he aged. He appears to have had what we would now call OCD and possibly also any of a range of mental illnesses. He could not work with others, nor could his pronouncements be verified or even understood.

He did spend his last decade in hotel rooms living on a small Yugoslavian pension. This was partially, perhaps mostly, because he pushed all others away. However, his funeral was attended by over 750 people and he was given great acclaim for his work.

[Tully Mars]

I just finished re-reading a bio on Tesla. My impression is that his reputation was seriously damaged by his habit of taking an idea to investors for funding and then never following through with the development to provide the profits he promised the investors.

The most blatant case of this was getting money from J.P. Morgan to develop flourescent lighting (among other things) and then never completing the work. Instead, he spent the money on his lavious lifestlye (a suite at the Waldorf Astoria) and in developing the big lightening mushroom on Long Island.

As a result, Morgan refused to release him from the contract and free up some of his patents to allow Tesla to pursue other investors.

[if6was9]

One tesla is equal to one weber per square meter.
So... one kettle grill = one tesla?

[BMalion]

A pretty thorough and amusing bio of Tesla can be found at the Tales of Future Past (http://www.davidszondy.com/future/tesla/tesla.htm) website.

[audiobottle]

A tesla (unit) is uncommon in magnets encountered in day-to-day living. MRI scanners are rated in teslas (3T = 3 tesla).

[CurtC]

So... one kettle grill = one tesla?No, teslas measure the areal density of kettle grills: kettle grills per square meter.

[Gangster Octopus]

One of the mosre interesting aspects of Tesla's life was how he released Westinghouse from royalties on his AC motor. Tesla was very much an idealist and Westinghouse sold it as the only way to save the company at to make AC and Tesla's motor successful. Tesla was more interested in seeing his ideas win the day than monetary reward. This cost him millions of dollars, but I don't think he ever complained. Sadly, when he was struggling for money, Westinghouse didn't return the favor.

I think it would be wrong to say Edison stole Tesla's ideas, although he certainly did borow from others.

[gonzomax]

He was obsessed with the number 3. He would walk around the block 3 times before going in a bldg. What a loon. Everybody knows the number is 5.

[bonzer]

Tesla worked with, or perhaps for, Edison, when he first came to the US, but the two had a falling out (as Tesla did with numerous people, perhaps not without justification). Edison did stiff him a considerable promised sum (sources differ on the amount, but it was huge for that day) to perform development and improvement on the direct current generator.

It's worth expanding on the - thin - available evidence about this since it's the primary (only?) occasion I'm aware of where Tesla claimed that Edison had specifically wronged him.
Otherwise, their later public comments about each other were commonly very personal, but they tended to be more general. Claims that one or the other's style was impractical or inefficient. The tone could even be pure childishness, with Tesla for example accusing Edison of bad personal hygene. (A plausible suggestion it has to be said, but not on a par with accusing him of stealing your work.)

As far as I can tell, there are two documents in which Tesla told his version of the break with Edison. Neither dates from the time.
The earlier is in his 1919 article My Inventions (http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/tesla/ntesla-autobiography.html):

During this period [1884-5] I designed twenty-four different types of standard machines with short cores and uniform pattern, which replaced the old ones. The manager had promised me fifty thousand dollars on the completion of this task, but it turned out to be a practical joke. This gave me a painful shock and I resigned my position.
Immediately thereafter, some people approached me with the proposal of forming an arc light company under my name, to which I agreed.

From the context, it's pretty clear that the machines being refered to are DC dynamos.
In a 1938 letter, he added a bit of colour:
The manager had promised me fifty thousand dollars, but when I demanded payment, he merely laughed. "You are still a Parisian," remarked Edison. "When you become a full-fledged American, you will appreciate an American joke."
(As quoted in Marc Seifer's 1996 Tesla biography Wizard.)
A variant on quote is given by John O'Neill in his Prodigal Genius: "Tesla, you don't understand our American humor." The rest of his version of the story doesn't really add anything factual to the two brief ones directly from Tesla, but it's rather more fleshed out as explicitly saying that Edison conned him. As usual, O'Neill may have been drawing on one of his conversations with the elderly Tesla, but it'd still be impossible to tell what emphasis is O'Neill and what Tesla. Equally usually, it's O'Neill's version of the story that most later Tesla biographers and enthusiasts have uncritically relied on.

Edison biographers have, on the other hand, almost invariably ignored Tesla's claim. (Paul Israel's major biography of Edison actually never even mentions Tesla at all.) If pressed, I suspect they would all dismiss that as deriving from a prejudiced source long after the fact. What they usually turn to when discussing the rupture in 1885 is Alfred O. Tate's 1938 book Edison's Open Door. He was not quite yet employed as Edison's secretary at the time, but he later heard that Tesla had asked Harry Livor to approach Charles Batchelor with the request that Tesla's salary be increased from $18 to $25 a week. Bachelor rudely dismisses the suggestion and then Tesla resigns.
Of course, Tate is also writing well after the fact.

So, we basically have two different explanations for why Tesla left. And it looks unlikely that there are any more contemporary sources to shed better light. For Tesla really wasn't all that important enough at the time for anyone to bother recording his departure. The sort of talented, highly promising hotshot newcomer who might well have felt undervalued in the company, but still a couple of years away from anyone realising exactly how much he could deliver. At least for that relatively brief period when he did deliver.

[Tuckerfan]

In addition to having a rock band named after him, Tesla's life has also inspired two operas! The first is Tesla: Lightning in His Hand (http://www.teslasociety.com/opera.htm), the second is Violet Fire (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6353988). Take that, Thomas Alva Edison! :p

[CurtC]

Often these days, if you see Tesla's work being touted, it's a marker for a kook web site. For some reason, cranks love Tesla.

http://uforeview.tripod.com/emweapons.html
http://www.freedomdomain.com/weathercontrol/scalarweapon01.html
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id266/pg1/
http://www.rense.com/general67/wmds.htm
http://www.bariumblues.com/haarp1.htm
http://www.mayanprophecy.net/

[BMalion]

... For some reason, cranks love Tesla.
...

They sense a kindred spirit.

[Elendil's Heir]

He was obsessed with the number 3. He would walk around the block 3 times before going in a bldg. What a loon. Everybody knows the number is 5.

Sez you. Sheesh! Everybody with a brain knows the number is 7.4500983. I mean, c'mon! :rolleyes:

[ralph124c]

I remember reading that Tesla indulged in a rather odd ritual, before dining at DELMONICO's (famous NYC restaurant). he would have 18 napkins delivered to his table, the polish his glass and silverware 18 times, each time with a fresh napkin. This (of course) was when Tesla was flush with cash-one wonders what the restaurant staff thought of this! I also understand that he would order the same meal, day in, day our-sort of like Howard Hughes with his steak and 13 peas on the plate. Any psychiatrists have a clue as to what was going on in Tesla's head? i can understand wanting clean tableware-but this is a bit much!

[LateComer]

Tesla showed increasing eccentricities as he aged. He appears to have had what we would now call OCD and possibly also any of a range of mental illnesses. He could not work with others, nor could his pronouncements be verified or even understood.After reading Man out of Time, I came to believe that his insanity was in part from his habit of shooting x-rays into his head so he could enjoy the warm feeling they gave him.

[carnivorousplant]

(he invented the "NAND" gate-fundamental to the digital computer-in 1898!).

Two relays in series controlling a third would implement it.
What was he using a NAND gate for?

[blondebear]

Let's not forget that he invented the transporter.

According to The Prestige, anyway....

[dnooman]

I remember reading that Tesla indulged in a rather odd ritual, before dining at DELMONICO's (famous NYC restaurant). he would have 18 napkins delivered to his table, the polish his glass and silverware 18 times, each time with a fresh napkin. This (of course) was when Tesla was flush with cash-one wonders what the restaurant staff thought of this! I also understand that he would order the same meal, day in, day our-sort of like Howard Hughes with his steak and 13 peas on the plate. Any psychiatrists have a clue as to what was going on in Tesla's head? i can understand wanting clean tableware-but this is a bit much!
Didn't he also constantly calculate the area of his remaining food too? I read Man out of time a long time ago, it made me admire Tesla quite a bit. At the very least he created a lot of discourse on the principles he researched.

[engineer_comp_geek]

What was he using a NAND gate for?

He had invented a remote control boat, which is pretty impressive all by itself, but the boat had a circuit in it which would prevent someone from taking over it with another radio control. It was this anti-hijacking circuit that functioned a lot like later logic circuits and prevented those logic circuits from being patented.

[Tuckerfan]

Oh, and it should be pointed out that lots of tin foil hatters claim that HAARP is based on Tesla's work with broadcast power and his supposed "death ray" weapon that he offered the government at one point.

[ralph124c]

One of the mosre interesting aspects of Tesla's life was how he released Westinghouse from royalties on his AC motor. Tesla was very much an idealist and Westinghouse sold it as the only way to save the company at to make AC and Tesla's motor successful. Tesla was more interested in seeing his ideas win the day than monetary reward. This cost him millions of dollars, but I don't think he ever complained. Sadly, when he was struggling for money, Westinghouse didn't return the favor.

I think it would be wrong to say Edison stole Tesla's ideas, although he certainly did borow from others.
Just wondering if the archives of the Westinghouse Electric Company contain any info on this-Tesla's patents WERE worth BILLIONS, and signing them over to Westinghouse was an act of greta generosity.
Tesla did keep several of his patents-the speedometer paid him royalties for many years.

[bonzer]

Just wondering if the archives of the Westinghouse Electric Company contain any info on this-Tesla's patents WERE worth BILLIONS, and signing them over to Westinghouse was an act of greta generosity.
Tesla did keep several of his patents-the speedometer paid him royalties for many years.

This is is an instance where archival research has complicated the received version of the story. In particular, Marc Seifer dug the relevant documents out of the Westinghouse Corporation Archives in Pittsburgh. These don't resolve all the issues, but they allow a plausible reconstruction of the sums and arguments involved.

To clarify from the outset, it's always been recognised that Westinghouse paid a substantial sum up front for use of the patents. The more delicate issue was that Westinghouse also agreed to pay a royalty on each watt of power that any system using the technology would distribute. A couple of years later that agreement was renegotiated by them; it's at this point that Tesla is supposed to have surrendered millions for the good of humanity.
As usual, O'Neill and Prodigal Genius loom large. He has a lengthy account of Westinghouse arguing with his bankers and Tesla eventually tearing up the existing contract out of loyalty to Westinghouse and for "the benefits that will come to civilization". Indulging in some number juggling, he comes to the conclusion that Tesla was forfeiting $12 million a year by 1905, when the patents expired. The immediate obvious problem with all this is that O'Neill himself admitted that he hadn't been able to locate the contracts involved. The story generally is filled with purportedly exact quotes from Westinghouse and his bankers about the situation, yet it's not obvious that O'Neill can have any sources beyond what he was told by Tesla decades afterwards. And Tesla's hardly an unbiased source for his own magnanimity. In hindsight, we can also see that several of the key details are factually wrong.
This is the version that's oft been repeated. For instance, for Tesla: Man out of Time (Delta, 1998) Margaret Cheney simply regugitates it with O'Neill as her sole citation. In doing so, she manages to misquote his conclusion about the amounts and pulls from nowhere the claim that Tesla would have become a billionaire.

In the archives Seifer found memos and accounts relating to the original 1888 contract and the money actually paid by Westinghouse to Tesla in the period. These reveal that the initial agreement involved Westinghouse paying out $75,000 initially, along with 200 shares in his own company. The royalty was then $2.50 per watt. But crucially there was also a provision for a minimum royalty payment - basically $15,000 a year.
When it comes to this agreement being revised, probably in 1890, Seifer points to important commercial factors that probably forced this. This was the height of the controversy over the dangers of domestic electricity and it really wasn't obvious that AC was going to happen at all. Westinghouse's development of the technology had stalled. In those circumstances, Tesla's guaranteed $2.50 a watt was arguably valueless.
The documents relating to the revised agreement appear not to have survived. But Seifer notes that the cumulative amounts paid to Tesla by Westinghouse in the period 1888-97 are consistent with the hypothesis that it involved that minimum payment still being made. Even after the revision, Tesla possibly received over a hundred thousand dollars in lieu of royalties.

Of course, one can still speculate about Tesla's motives and whether he came to feel bitter about Westinghouse over it. But it's possible that he was taking a relatively hard-nosed business decision.

[Contrapuntal]

Often these days, if you see Tesla's work being touted, it's a marker for a kook web site. For some reason, cranks love Tesla.Did Tesla love crank? Could that explain his erratic behavior?

[ralph124c]

What was it supposed to do? If it was intended as a CW AM radio transmitter, then why diid Tesla need the huge copper-clad dome on top? I remember reading that J.P.Morgan financed this venture, which Telas claimed would allow trans-atlantic radio communication. So why did Tesla blow all this money? He should have been able to get by with a simple mast antenna.
And one final question: TESLA did have some very original techniques for handling high-tension current-areany of his patents in use today?

[Foolonthehill]

My great-grandfather and grandfather, (both were toolmakers), worked for Tesla at different times. Great grandpa had a machine shop on 59th street and went with him to Colorado Springs.
The Prodigal Genius remains the best source for understanding the man.
The "kook" factor among his fans is quite large, due no doubt to some of his truly strange ideas late in life. He not only appeared to have OCD, you have to throw a certain amount of paranoia into the mix as well.
My father, (another toolmaker, [in the military-industrial complex]), was approached by the Air Force in the 50's to work on some version of the turbine.
My mother is the last person I know of to have met him, (she' 80 now), and the Tesla Society is constantly sending her publications and begging for interviews. She only met him for 5 minutes max, while my father and she were courting. He ignored her speaking only to my grandfather.

[Tuckerfan]

What was it supposed to do? If it was intended as a CW AM radio transmitter, then why diid Tesla need the huge copper-clad dome on top? I remember reading that J.P.Morgan financed this venture, which Telas claimed would allow trans-atlantic radio communication. So why did Tesla blow all this money? He should have been able to get by with a simple mast antenna.
And one final question: TESLA did have some very original techniques for handling high-tension current-areany of his patents in use today?
IIRC, it was part of his broadcast power system that he could never quite get enough money to get working.

[Eleusis]

/still in the dark




.... publicity stunt?

[whitetho]

/still in the dark
.... publicity stunt?In part. Also a failed attempt to create a wireless power transmission system. Cecil's review is in the second half of What's up with "broadcast power"? (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_274.html)