silver nickels

[Phobos]

When did nickels switch from (whatever content) silver to it's current copper/nickel alloy? Was it 1965? How much more valuable are the older silver-containing nickels? I've noticed that some people sell them for more than 5 cents, but on the other hand, they're fairly easy to find in common usage.

[RealityChuck]

As far as I know, buffalo nickels (the current design) were always made of nickel (or, rather, cupronickel, a copper-nickel alloy). That is, after all, why they are called "nickels." The previous nickel coin was also cupronickel, so you'd have to go back to the 19th century to find any silver five-cent pieces, if they were made at all.

Dimes, quarters, and half dollars were made of silver until 1964, when they went to the sandwich (also cupronickel).

[2nd Law]

Jefferson nickels have been copper/nickel since they started back in 1938, with the exeption of a few years during WW II when they were made from copper, silver and manganese.

Info courtesy of http://www.usmint.gov

[Cabbage]

Yeah, nickels have always been nickel, except for WWII, when they were made out of silver (I think the years are '42 through '45 or '46, can't remember for sure). You can easily tell if you have a silver nickel because the mintmark was large and over the Monticello, as opposed to small and to the right of the Monticello.

They are not to be confused with the silver five cent pieces minted in the 19th century, which were called half-dimes.

[Skribbler]

I don't know about nickels, but current pennies are copper over magnesium. They should ignite if you heat them up.

[stuyguy]

skribbler, aren't pennies made with copper over ZINC, not magnesium?

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by Skribbler
I don't know about nickels, but current pennies are copper over magnesium. They should ignite if you heat them up.
I'm afraid you might not know much about pennies either. They are not magnesium.

[Dark Lord Davidson]

Pennies: delicious, nutritious, Zinc-A-Licious!

[Kyberneticist]

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/Med/PENNY.HTM

[Skribbler]

You are correct. I was in error. Pennies are copper plated zinc.

[awldune]

Originally posted by Skribbler
I don't know about nickels, but current pennies are copper over magnesium. They should ignite if you heat them up.

They don't. In fact, they're less fun to melt on a hotplate than all the other US coins. Of course, I haven't tried a half dollar before, and now that the new dollar coins are out I know better. Them's the breaks... <:I

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by Skribbler
You are correct. I was in error. Pennies are copper plated zinc.

Hmm - a relatively new person who politely acknowledges their error. :)

I like you already.

Una

[Chance the Gardener]

The nickel was introduced into circulation in 1883. Before then, there was a smaller coin that was referred to as the half-dime, also worth five cents (obviously.) The new coin was to be called a half-dime as well, but since they were made of nickel, the name nickel caught on.

Since 1883, the U.S. Mint has used pretty much the same alloy to make nickels. The nickel is actually made of 25% nickel—the rest is copper and a couple of other metals that comprise a very small percentage of the makeup of the coin. Nickel itself is too brittle to make a 100% nickel coin. In fact, the same cupronickel alloy is used in dimes, quarters and half dollars, sandwiched with a layer of bronze. This has been the case with dimes and quarters since 1965, and half dollars since 1971.

The only time in U.S. history after 1883 when nickels didn't have any copper in them was from the middle of 1942 to the end of 1945. During World War II, the government needed as much copper for the war effort as it possibly could get, so nickels were actually made of a silver/nickel alloy. These color of these coins is a little different, but to tell for sure whether they're of the partially silver variety, look on the backs of the coins at Monticello. The silver coins have a letter hovering above it, either a P, D or S—indicating either the Philadelphia, Denver or San Francisco mints. On regular coins (before 1968) the mint mark was smaller and appeared to the right of Monticello.)

[scratch1300]

No one's answered the second question, how valuable are they? I remember when silver was at its peak in the eighties, you could figure on ten times the face value of a silver coin (just for bullion value), so a dime was worth about a dollar, a quarter was worth about two and a half dollars, etc. I know the silver nickels didn't contain the 90% silver of dimes and quarters, but I think the bigger size made up for the smaller percentage. Does anyone know the current value?

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by scratch1300
No one's answered the second question, how valuable are they? I remember when silver was at its peak in the eighties, you could figure on ten times the face value of a silver coin (just for bullion value), so a dime was worth about a dollar, a quarter was worth about two and a half dollars, etc. I know the silver nickels didn't contain the 90% silver of dimes and quarters, but I think the bigger size made up for the smaller percentage. Does anyone know the current value?
This is going to sound like a cop-out, but in terms of the "value" of coins, they are worth what someone will pay for them. Coin dealers will never pay a price even close to the Red or Black book values, and will often pay even under the value of the metal in some cases. Why? Because people will sell to them at those prices.

If you are asking about merely the value of the metal, that should be easy to calculate.

From October 8, 1942, through 1945, the nickel was composed of 56% copper, 35% silver, and 9% manganese. But I don't know if that is by weight or by volume, and web searches are failing me right now...

[scratch1300]

Thanks. Another question, why are our coins (nickels, dimes, quarters, half-dollars) silver-colored, considering that they are currently 75% copper and 25% nickel? Shouldn't they more closely approximate the color of copper than nickel?

[Cabbage]

Just as a guess, I would think one of the silver nickels would typically go for around a dollar.

[dougie_monty]

As Chance the Gardener said, the American five-cent piece in the U.S. has been 3 parts copper and 1 part nickel since 1883. In fact, according to Isaac Asimov in Building Blocks of the Universe, coins in ancient Bactria (now part of Afghanistan) were made of copper and nickel in the same proportions.
During World War II nickel was a critical war material and was eliminated altogether from the 5c piece. As other Dopers have noted, the large mint mark indicated change of alloy, and the wartime nickel contained silver--35%, along with 56% copper and 9% manganese.
Why a nickel in the current composition is nickel-colored instead of copper-colored nobody knows. Metallurgists will tell you, incidentally, that except for aluminum, all metals, when powdered, are black. Aluminum powder is silvery. :)

[samclem]

Nickels were not introduced in 1883 but rather 1866. The design was a shield on the obverse and a large numeral "5" on the reverse. The design was changed in 1883 to a female head of liberty on the obverse and a Roman numeral 5 on the reverse.

As I work in the largest retail coin shop in Ohio, I feel my opinion on values is valid.

We currently pay the public 12 cents for a war nickel. If you wish to buy them mixed, as they come from the barrel, we sell them in quantity for about 20 cents. If you want a particular date/mint for your collection, it's 50 cents(the additional 30 cents being the cost of waiting on you and stocking/sorting some coins by date. I would estimate that we buy 25-50,000 war nickels per year. The bulk of what we buy is melted.

[Cabbage]

Actually, you could say the first nickels were from 1865. Three cent nickels, that is.

[Chronos]

Also, older Canadian five-cent pieces are made of pure nickel, or at least, a much higher concentration than the American alloy. I'm not sure when Canada changed their alloy, but it was sometime between 1978 and 1989 (I have two Canadian nickels here in front of me bearing those dates). It's very easy to tell the difference: An old Canadian nickel will stick to a magnet, as nickel, like iron, is ferromagnetic.

By the way, aluminum powder may well be silvery, but the much more common aluminum oxide powder is black. Try handling a bunch of aluminum all day some day... Your hands will be completely blackened.

[samclem]

Chronos Canadian "nickels" have possibly undergone the most changes of composition of any nation. They were pure nickel from 1922-42. They made a brass one 1942-43. They were chrome-plated steel 1944-45. Back to nickel 1946-50. 1951-54 basically chrome-plated steel again. Back to nickel from 1955-1981. Then copper-nickel from 1982-current.

Sheesh! Can't they make up their minds?

*For other readers- I know this post was boring. If you've gotten this far in the thread, you must be boring also.

[Chance the Gardener]

I'm not sure about your dates. I've got a 1964 Canadian nickel that's magnetic. Also, I don't think Canada ever used pure nickel; such a coin would literally be too brittle to circulate.

[samclem]

Chance Nickel is magnetic(at room temperature).
It is not too brittle to be used as a coin.

[Chance the Gardener]

The American nickel, as has already been stated, is only 25% nickel, but even pure nickel isn't magnetic, and copper certainly isn't, either. At room temperature, ground into filings or even molten, nickel isn't magnetic.

[samclem]

chance
I have in my hand a 1924 Canadian nickel. It is made out of pure nickel, contrary to what you might believe. I just took a magnet off of my refrigerator. It picks up the nickel. What else can I tell you? Pure nickel IS magnetic. If you think it isn't, give me a cite!

You are correct in saying that US nickels are 75% copper. A magnet does not pick up an American nickel.

[Kyberneticist]

Not that it helps Chance any...
http://www.tamuk.edu/chemistry/WebElements/nickel_element.htm
http://www.fordhamprep.pvt.k12.ny.us/gcurran/3rdquart/nielem.htm

[Chance the Gardener]

samclem—I stand corrected. I thought nickel wasn't magnetic. I even looked it up in my reference materials, but I see that I didn't look deep enough. Looking again, I see that it is indeed ferromagnetic. Thanks for your kind, non-condescending reply and your patience with me, whose knowledge of chemistry isn't... well... isn't flawless. I would have researched your assertion further, but apparently the work has been done for me.

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by samclem
I would estimate that we buy 25-50,000 war nickels per year. The bulk of what we buy is melted.

That sounds horrible - that they are worth so little that they are just melted down for their silver. Akin to melting down some of our history, I guess. Oh well, supply and demand...

[Usurer]

We sell random "war nickels" in our pawn shop for about 40 cents each. We generally pay about half that. Uncirculated ones go for a couple of bucks. As far as easy to find, I dunno. I've dug through many a roll of nickels in my off time and found maybe two. About as easy to find as Indian Head cents in a roll of pennies, it seems to me.

[dougie_monty]

samclem—I stand corrected. I thought nickel wasn't magnetic. I even looked it up in my reference materials, but I see that I didn't look deep enough. Looking again, I see that it is indeed ferromagnetic. Thanks for your kind, non-condescending reply and your patience with me, whose knowledge of chemistry isn't... well... isn't flawless. I would have researched your assertion further, but apparently the work has been done for me.
Like iron and nickel, cobalt is ferromagnetic. (In Building Blocks of the Universe, Isaac Asimov said gadolinium--a "rare earth metal"--is weakly magnetic. My Dad [who had no background in chemistry] disagreed with that. :rolleyes: )

[Starguard]

Nickels were not introduced in 1883 but rather 1866. The design was a shield on the obverse and a large numeral "5" on the reverse. The design was changed in 1883 to a female head of liberty on the obverse and a Roman numeral 5 on the reverse.

As I work in the largest retail coin shop in Ohio, I feel my opinion on values is valid.

We currently pay the public 12 cents for a war nickel. If you wish to buy them mixed, as they come from the barrel, we sell them in quantity for about 20 cents. If you want a particular date/mint for your collection, it's 50 cents(the additional 30 cents being the cost of waiting on you and stocking/sorting some coins by date. I would estimate that we buy 25-50,000 war nickels per year. The bulk of what we buy is melted.

I'm glad you chimed in my friend

I have an Indian Head nickel thats pretty worn and dated for the year 1935. Assuming that its real, How much money is it worth today (if anything above face value)?

[dougie_monty]

I'm glad you chimed in my friend

I have an Indian Head nickel thats pretty worn and dated for the year 1935. Assuming that its real, How much money is it worth today (if anything above face value)?
The Teeming Millions probably already know that the five-cent nickel coin was introduced in 1883, even if coins containing nickel were minted before. In fact this coin caused the mint some embarrassment: The original "Liberty Head" nickel had the Roman numeral "V" on the back, but not the word "Cents." So one entrepreneur gold-plated these "Racketeer Nickels" and passed them off as five-dollar gold pieces! He was arrested, I understand, but it turned out they couldn't charge him with violating any law. The next year the design was changed. :D

[samclem]

The Teeming Millions probably already know that the five-cent nickel coin was introduced in 1883, even if coins containing nickel were minted before.
See my post above. The first five-cent nickle coin was introduced in 1866. It was made out of 75% copper and 25% nickel, just as were the 1883 "V" nickels.

[Starguard]

See my post above. The first five-cent nickle coin was introduced in 1866. It was made out of 75% copper and 25% nickel, just as were the 1883 "V" nickels.

So If this Indian head nickel that I have is legit, is it worth anything more than 5 cents?

[Telemark]

So If this Indian head nickel that I have is legit, is it worth anything more than 5 cents?
Based on the online guides I've found, roughly 30 cents if it is in fairly good condition. It's probably legit, no point in faking something that isn't worth much.

[mks57]

The silver nickels minted during World War II were intended to free up nickel for use in Oak Ridge's uranium gaseous diffusion enrichment facility. Natural uranium was converted to uranium hexafluoride, a gas, and piped through the gaseous diffusion plant. Uranium hexafluoride (UF6) is extremely corrosive and huge quantities of nickel were required to protect the equipment from corrosion. The highly-enriched uranium (U235) was used to build the "Little Boy" atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan.

[Chefguy]

As I work in the largest retail coin shop in Ohio, I feel my opinion on values is valid.



samclem: How you doin'? Any deals for a fellow collector? :D

[dougie_monty]

See my post above. The first five-cent nickle coin was introduced in 1866. It was made out of 75% copper and 25% nickel, just as were the 1883 "V" nickels.
:o
I believe I remember, vaguely, reading about a 5-cent nickel coin that predates the Liberty Head nickel and matches the description you've given. I'll verify with a coin book (I'm in a library right now).
I don't know offhand when the silver "half-disme" was discontinued.

[samclem]

Silver "half dimes" were produced through 1873, and co-existed with the new(1866) "nickel" five cent coins.

[dougie_monty]

Silver "half dimes" were produced through 1873, and co-existed with the new(1866) "nickel" five cent coins.
Indeed they did. I found the 1866 five-cent nickel-copper coin in the "red book" at the Torrance Library. I stand corrected. :o

[Annie-Xmas]

[b]samclem[b], what's the going rate on a "V" nickel. I have one from 1907 which I plan to hold onto until 2007 (Wow, a hundred year old coin!)

[BwanaBob]

Metallurgists will tell you, incidentally, that except for aluminum, all metals, when powdered, are black. Aluminum powder is silvery. :)

I must respectfully disagree. I had an old chemistry set given to me in 1970. It contained many of the taboo chemicals like Potassium Nitrate, powdered Potassium Permanganate (and the glycerin to make it ignite). It also contained a tube of zinc dust which was most assuredly not black. It was a dark grey, lighter in color than pencil graphite. It was also very dangerous in that you could make a nifty explosive that ignited on contact with water if you mixed it with two other chemicals which I will not identify here.

[Cartooniverse]

Hey samclem, I've got a 1909 VDB Penny.

What's it worth? It's Philadelphia sadly, not San Francisco...

Cartooniverse

[samclem]

[b]samclem[b], what's the going rate on a "V" nickel. I have one from 1907 which I plan to hold onto until 2007 (Wow, a hundred year old coin!)
I'll sell you an average one for about $2.00

Hey samclem, I've got a 1909 VDB Penny. toon We sell them for $3.00 or so.

[King Friday]

You are correct. I was in error. Pennies are copper plated zinc.

Grad 2 pennies, one pre-1982, one post-1982, and a nail file. File down the face of each penny and tell me what you see...

[King Friday]

The nickel was introduced into circulation in 1883. Before then, there was a smaller coin that was referred to as the half-dime, also worth five cents (obviously.) The new coin was to be called a half-dime as well, but since they were made of nickel, the name nickel caught on.

My notes show that a 5 cent nickel piece entered circulation in 1866. The half dimes were produced from 1794 - 1873. So, these two different coins of the same value were minted for 8 common years.

How confusing. :confused:

Not to mention the half cent, two cent, and three cent pieces floating around at the same time.

[dougie_monty]

Not to mention the half cent, two cent, and three cent pieces floating around at the same time.
I wonder what those coins were made of, if they could float.
Hyuk hyuk hyuk. :D