Non-English Teams in English

[sdimbert]

Why do foreign countries identify themselved in English?

Why do Chinese divers wear bathing suits that say "China" (in English) instead of writing it in Chinese?

Why does the Romanian gymnastics coach wear a jacket that says "Romania" in English instead of Romanian?

[A girl]

What's worse, why do the teams have to use the English names for their countries! Japan is called Nippon in Japanese! But they have to use JPN in the Olympics, and I bet China calls itself something else too, as well as Korea.

A girl

[Munch]

I want to throw out a WAG, and say that it has to do with more with the french word for these countries than english, as french is the official language of the olympics.

[sdimbert]

Originally posted by Connor
...as french is the official language of the olympics.

Really?

You learn something new every day.

I would have WAG'd that it was Greek. Aren't the Olympics of Greek origin?

[RealityChuck]

Close sdimbert.

The country names are usually written in the language of the host nation. I suspect that the Olympic organizing committee can specify a language, since I don't recall the names being in Korean when it was held in Seoel (man I can't spell that :) )).

When the Olympics were in Montreal, they did use French. That cause a lot of confusion in the opening ceremony; a lot of African countries were boycotting and the announcers weren't sure if a country was missing or just in French. ("Looks like Chad is missing." "No, Jim, it's spelled Tchad in French.")

[iampunha]

Originally posted by sdimbert
I would have WAG'd that it was Greek. Aren't the Olympics of Greek origin?

Greek and (I think, maybe) continued by Romans . . . but outlawed somewhere along the line. Restarted by someone French whose name I have conveniently forgotten back in 1896.

[CalMeacham]

iampunha:

You forgot a name in 1896? How old are you







Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[BobT]

Most likely the Japanese compete under the name Japan because they figure that most of the people watching know where and what Japan is. It's marketing more than anything else. If you're not going to be writing your country's name in your own alphabet, you might as well make it easy for the largest number of people to read.

The USSR used to compete under CCCP which was the abbreviation for the country in Cyrillic. The Soviet Union didn't really care about marketing their apparel and logos, so they went with their own name written their own way.

The USA has fairly recognizable initials so it doesn't need to change. I don't think the German uniforms say "Germany" on them. Brazil's uniforms say "Brasil."

Korean uniforms say "Korea", at least the ones in baseball did.

[ren]

When I was at the Olympics in Atlanta, all announcements were made in three languages: The language of the host country (in this case English), the language of the Olympics (French) and (at least in cases where athletes competed one at a time) the language of the current competitor. If there were multiple nationalities/languages involved in the contest, sometimes no third language was used. I've been told that in the latter case, English is frequently used for announcements as a sort of lingua france, but I've been unable to find the "official" word on this.

BTW, I highly recommend going to the Olympics in person rather than watching on TV. The atmosphere is far, far, less ethnocentric and there's more focus on the thrill of competing, and less on actually winning. (It's really cool to see people compete who are lucky to just be there, and be happy with their results, irrespective of medal contention).

[ren]

umm, that's lingua franca. Doh!

[dtilque]

Originally posted by ren
... English is frequently used for announcements as a sort of lingua france, ...
Great typo, but somehow I don't think the French will be terribly amused...

[iampunha]

Originally posted by CalMeacham
iampunha:

You forgot a name in 1896? How old are you


Serves me right for posting from class . . . :(

[charizard]

This should get really cool if Beijing wins the bid for the 2008 Olympics. Try finding Chad on THAT list.

[Flymaster]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that there are TWO languages of the olympics, English AND French, plus the language of the host country. I could also be very wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's both.

[Sunshine]

Originally posted by sdimbert
I would have WAG'd that it was Greek. Aren't the Olympics of Greek origin?

Um...ever hear of Olympia, Greece?

That's why they're called the Olympics. Olympia is the birthplace of the Olympics, in 776 b.c. (I've been there, to the ruins of the Olympic "stadium" and housing facilities, etc. It was pretty awesome.)

The ancient Olympic games were originally a religous praise-Zeus thing and they stopped doing it in around 350 b.c. Then the games were brought back as the modern games in 1896 and held in Athens, Greece--but this time to promote peace, diplomacy and to honor the ancient Olympians.

Too much Olympic info? :) Ever since I was in Greece in '98 I've been interested.

[MinkMan]

27 Languages
1 The official languages of the IOC are French and English.
2 At all IOC Sessions, simultaneous interpretation into German, Spanish, Russian and Arabic must also be provided.
3 In the case of divergence between the French and English texts of the Olympic Charter and all other IOC documents, the French text shall prevail unless expressly provided otherwise in writing.
http://www.olympic.org/ioc/e/facts/charter/charter_games_e.html

[sailor]

Just to add to the trivia I'll remind everyone the original Greek athletes competed naked.

[Greg Charles]

Originally posted by iampunha

Greek and (I think, maybe) continued by Romans . . . but outlawed somewhere along the line. Restarted by someone French whose name I have conveniently forgotten back in 1896.

Wow, I can't believe an implied question has gone unanswered for this long! The name you're looking for is Pierre De Coubertin.

[sdimbert]

This is interesting and all, but it doesn't really answer the OP's question.

Why do competing countries see fit to write their own nations's name on their own uniforms in a foreign language? I mean, they're not using French (the Official Language), they are using English!

[Ankh_Too]

Originally posted by iampunha
Originally posted by sdimbert
I would have WAG'd that it was Greek. Aren't the Olympics of Greek origin?

Greek and (I think, maybe) continued by Romans . . . but outlawed somewhere along the line. Restarted by someone French whose name I have conveniently forgotten back in 1896.

Baron de Coubertin

http://www.museum.olympic.org/e/gallery/permanent/cou_bio_e.html

originally posted by sdimbert
Why do competing countries see fit to write their own nations's name on their own uniforms in a foreign language? I mean, they're not using French (the Official Language), they are using English!

Although both French and English are the official languages of the Olympics, it may simply be a pragmatic decision on the part of the countries in question. English is the most widely used and understood language internationally. They may have decided to go with the language that will reach the most people.

But that's just a guess.

[Derleth]

Having French as a lingua franca (couldn't help myself) is anachronous. It dates back to Charlemagne's rule (that's Charles the Great to you British dogs :D) when France was the biggest and the best thing going since Rome. France, through Charles' rule, inherited Western Rome's legacy much like the Ottoman Empire, through Byzantine and Constantinople, inherited Eastern Rome's legacy. So French became the ultimate language, the one everyone who was anyone knew. After 1066 and the Battle of Hastings, French (and Roman Catholicism along with it) had traveled to the benighted British Isles. So French was cemented in international usage as the Language of Diplomacy, just as Latin is the Language of Education. A little historical perspective.

[Homer]

Originally posted by sailor
Just to add to the trivia I'll remind everyone the original Greek athletes competed naked.

Yeah, but considering our current gymnasts are all of 12 or 14 years old...

--Tim

[London_Calling]

Originally posted by sdimbert
This is interesting and all, but it doesn't really answer the OP's question.

Why do competing countries see fit to write their own nations's name on their own uniforms in a foreign language? I mean, they're not using French (the Official Language), they are using English!

Can't think of anything more plausible than (as mentioned) it's the language of the host nation - kind of.

[SpoilerVirgin]

Anyone who is interested in learning more about the Ancient Olympics should check out this site:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Olympics/

I got curious while watching the modern Olympics and did a search. There are some great stories about the famous athletes of the time, exactly how the games were conducted, even some ancient cheating incidents.

[Coldfire]

FWIW, the Netherlands Olympic Team have "Nederland" on all of their clothing. But I suppose that's mainly because it's recognisable to an English crowd. Maybe not for a French crowd, but who gives a hoot about Frogs anyway ;)

[sdimbert]

First of all, I have to say that we haven't gotten a good answer yet. To say that English is the "host" language is the Olympics is simply untrue.

To say that English is the de facto "official" language is also suspect - that accuses other nations' atheletes of being as USA-centric as we (all to often) accuse ourselves of being.

Also, to say that it is done to be recognizable on the world stage is flawed: If the Chinese uniforms said "China" (or whatever) in Chinese characters, I think I could figure out that, since that was the Chinese alphabet, they probably aren't Dutch.

Anyone have a better answer?

On a note that (I think) is related...

How come, right before the decatheletes run the 1500m race, which is (like all other races) measured in the Metric system, they measure other events in the English system? Why do Dutch pole vaulters measure their vaults in feet and inches? Why is a Russian javelin toss measured in feet and inches? What gives?

[Coldfire]

Maybe that's just the decathlon then, because pole vaulting itself is metric, right?

My WAG would be that it has to do with the track being exactly 400 meters. It would be difficult to plot a distance in anything other than metric.

[hawthorne]

Posted by sdimbert
Why is a Russian javelin toss measured in feet and inches? What gives?
The commentary and measurements we get (in Oz) is all metric. I suspect that results are available in both imperial and metric, but that where the length of a race is a nice round number they consider it too silly to say "the slightly more than a mile" race.

As for the other thing, I've been wondering too. Some countries have their real names, others not. I've no idea why, but you'd have to figure it is up to the individual countries rather than a matter of policy.

picmr

[BobT]

Well this thread is going all over the place.

I still believe that the Chinese and Japanese teams use "China" and "Japan" so that their athletes can be recognized by the largest number of people watching the event. Obviously neither country is particularly worked up over putting those names on their uniforms because both countries have quite a bit of national pride.

In pro leagues in Japan, the uniforms always have romaji on them. If you go watch a Japanese baseball game, the players names will be in romaji, the team name will be an English name (Giants, Swallows, etc.), and Arabic numerals will be used on the uniform.

Every single event in the Olympics is measured in metrics. Even baseball translates the English measurements into metrics (the bases are still 90 feet apart.)

The 1500 meter run is an artifact left over from the time when running tracks were 500 meters around. I believe the track used for the 1896 games was this dimension. In the US, high school runners run a 1600 meter race as well as a 3200 meter race. However, once you are in college, it's the 1500 and 3000.

[Aestivalis]

Originally posted by sdimbert


Also, to say that it is done to be recognizable on the world stage is flawed: If the Chinese uniforms said "China" (or whatever) in Chinese characters, I think I could figure out that, since that was the Chinese alphabet, they probably aren't Dutch.

Anyone have a better answer?



Well, if China, Japan and Korea decided to use their native character sets, many viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It's all Greek to them! :P

[John Bredin]

"To say that English is the de facto "official" language is also suspect - that accuses other nations' atheletes of being as USA-centric as we (all to often) accuse ourselves of being."

I think you're seeing US-centrism where it may not be there.

1) IIRC, there's a source of English other than the US: Great Britain. As in the British Empire, you know:
*The sun nevers sets on...
*One third of the world's land on maps and globes painted red to represent...

The empire's not around anymore, but language is the sort of thing that sticks around.

2) English is the **official** language of aviation, and all air-traffic communications, ground-plane and plane-plane, is supposed to occur in English. By INTERNATIONAL treaty, not jammed down the world's throat by the all-powerful evil Amuricans.

[mealypotaotes]

In the winter olympics, Finland wears the finnish name Suomi on their uniforms.