New server even slower than the old one? Temporary? [Archive]

neutron star

01-20-2007, 12:16 AM

It took me six minutes (at 1:00 EST on a Saturday morning) just to get to ATMB, then another three minutes to begin to start a new thread. Who knows how long it will take to submit it.

Is this a temporary thing or will the SDMB always be one of the slowest message boards on the Web?

neutron star

01-20-2007, 12:21 AM

Huh. And now that I've posted that, everything is loading in a second or two.

What's going on?

scottkris

01-20-2007, 01:24 AM

Huh. And now that I've posted that, everything is loading in a second or two.

What's going on?

Yeah...

What the

FUCK

Is going on?

Seriously, this is silly

The SDMB sometimes is faser than te Flash, and sometimes slower than,,,,

than....

than....

Shit.

EddyTeddyFreddy

01-20-2007, 02:07 AM

Must be everybody trying out the new edit function.

Liberal

01-20-2007, 05:19 AM

I, for one, like the new slowness much better than the old slowness. It's more modern.

Chez Guevara

01-20-2007, 06:28 AM

I dunno.

I find the new slowness impertinent and, it must be said, irritatingly coquettish. It turns me on, fulfills me momentarily then starts playing fast and loose with my delicately balanced emotions. I just can't rely on it.

The old slowness exuded an unmistakable essence of the hypnotically mellow. I was drawn inexorably into its warm and welcoming embrace, rather like the time I gradually lost my innocence in the arms of a beautiful courtesan experienced in the many and varied arcane arts of love.

Maybe it's just me.

pseudotriton ruber ruber

01-20-2007, 06:53 AM

Also there was nothing posted for 19 minutes between 7:28 and 7:47 just now, as I waited to connect.

C K Dexter Haven

01-20-2007, 06:58 AM

I dunno, I'm finding everything going at super speed. We'll get Jerry's attention here, see what's what.

DSYoungEsq

01-20-2007, 07:58 AM

My experience yesterday is that, while I love the new features, the same old wait while the hamsters decide to get around to your request aspect existed with the same degree of unpredictability. Submit a reply and wait for minutes to see if it posted, or see it right away. Click a forum to get in and load right away, or load after a few minutes. <sigh>

elmwood

01-20-2007, 08:15 AM

Maybe some httpd.conf tuning is in order. Seems faster to me overall, but there are occasional slowdowns, like what Chez described.

WhyNot

01-20-2007, 08:48 AM

twickster

01-20-2007, 08:52 AM

Hamsters? Didn't we upgrade to jerboas or something?
Capybaras.

Liberal

01-20-2007, 09:17 AM

carnivorousplant

01-20-2007, 09:22 AM

Capybaras.

Well, hell. That explains it. They bent the wheels. :smack:

TubaDiva

01-20-2007, 09:48 AM

Not sure what's going on, but this has been reported.

Una Persson

01-20-2007, 09:51 AM

Overall I see a huge improvement, but with occasional drop-outs. Much, much better than before, however.

EddyTeddyFreddy

01-20-2007, 10:39 AM

Capybaras.
Screw the rodents! It's time we modernized to greyhounds!

Canadjun

01-20-2007, 10:50 AM

Well, touch wood, I haven't actually had a time-out message yet, but I am certainly getting lots of extended waits. When I don't get an extended wait I think things are faster, but since the waits were the big problem I'm not convinced yet that we are any better off than before.

Quiddity Glomfuster

01-20-2007, 11:16 AM

I've gotten blindingly fast returns followed by slowness and then some. And a while ago I got nothing at all.

I'm starting to think this New!! Improved!!!! server is like everything else 'new & improved'. It's the marketers' version of a placebo. It's not really better but you're supposed to believe it's better and be healed.

gardentraveler

01-20-2007, 11:25 AM

I imagine there are still all sorts of settings and things being ironed out. For the most part, things have been moving really fast. I'm thinking it's too soon to tell, though.

GT

Crotalus

01-20-2007, 11:43 AM

I'm finding it generally much faster. I had some waits yesterday, but none today so far. Chez and Liberal, I found the waits yesterday to be delightfully piquant.

Duckster

01-20-2007, 12:06 PM

Screw the rodents! It's time we modernized to greyhounds!

No, ya gotta walk before we can run. Let's use whippets.

Liberal

01-20-2007, 12:10 PM

I'm finding it generally much faster. I had some waits yesterday, but none today so far. Chez and Liberal, I found the waits yesterday to be delightfully piquant.It's probably just my imagination. I'm becoming senile in my afflicted old age. Just the other day, I thought I was sucking on a cigarette, but it wasn't.

EddyTeddyFreddy

01-20-2007, 12:14 PM

No, ya gotta walk before we can run. Let's use whippets.Well, anything except the basset hounds they seem to be using.

rowrrbazzle

01-20-2007, 12:43 PM

Yesterday I had a couple of long waits, plus one timeout at 3:55 PM Chicago time.

susan

01-20-2007, 01:52 PM

Greyhounds have no staying power. You want a team of sled dogs.

Duck Duck Goose

01-20-2007, 03:04 PM

I too am getting mostly faster service with the occasional serious "hang", including an occasional timeout.

[timidly offers the new capybaras a carrot]

Hostile Dialect

01-20-2007, 03:13 PM

Must be everybody trying out the new edit function.

Edit function? Oh man, GD and the Pit are fucked.

FWIW, everything is zooming along for me.

Exactly what new features are there, anyway?

carnivorousplant

01-20-2007, 03:14 PM

[timidly offers the new capybaras a carrot]

This picture of a handsome male clearly shows the scent gland on his snout (http://www.rebsig.com/capybara/)

Oye.

Musicat

01-20-2007, 07:06 PM

I am getting irregular results, but the trend line is down. It is taking 3 to 4 minutes to get a preview. Sometimes it times out. Posting takes just as long. I'm afraid to try a search.

Seriously, folks, this is getting ridiculous. Is the CPU maxed out? Copius RAM not being recognized? Memory allocation compromised? Some background task running that hogs the CPU? Has our server been taken over by porn site storage? Are SQL pointers bashed? Are the gamma rays attacking the marigolds? Did something overflow? Is a massive internal repair process going on? Re-indexing? Backing up? Slowing down? Hamster chow lower in calories? Hamsters mating with the Capybaras?

FYI: It took 2.5 minutes to preview this post. Now I will try to submit it. Wish me luck.

Musicat

01-20-2007, 07:18 PM

6 minutes to post, then timeout. New preview shows it went thru, but if the edit limit is 5 minutes, that would have been useless.

FYI: this preview was instant. Could someone be doing CPU-intensive searches?

silenus

01-20-2007, 07:48 PM

This is ridiculous. I've had more time-outs today than I have had in years.

Medic!

DSYoungEsq

01-20-2007, 07:48 PM

I was just locked out of the Board, effectively; for the last 10 minutes, I was unable to load any thread or forum. Eventually, it wouldn't even let me get to the Board at all from the Front Page.

This is the behavior that, in the old servers, caused me to almost eschew participation. It simply isn't any fun waiting to see if a page loads, then checking back, then finding out you were timed out and have to manually look for new threads, etc. I maintain, therefore, this issue is not server related, but either software related or non-server infrastructure related.

Capybaras appear to be just as lazy at times, in other words. :smack: :p

Q.E.D.

01-20-2007, 07:51 PM

I wonder who will snap first and pit the new server?

Musicat

01-20-2007, 07:52 PM

Reading this thread, it seems others are experiencing what I would sum up as lightning speed followed by abysmal slowness. It doesn't seem to be tied to our actions as users; I just tried a PM and it took 4 minutes to post, another board post took 3, then everything became instant.

If I were trying to track down the problem, I sure would be watching the server utilization meters on one monitor while looking at the application load on another. If the load maxes out, what processes are driving it? I'll bet there are signicant spikes, and those are easier to track down than slow rampups.

Preview: instant, 2X

dogbutler

01-21-2007, 07:43 AM

I just had a timeout trying to reply. Also, the mainpage recognizes me, but when I post, I have to re-login:

I made you a cookie, but I eated it. :(

DSYoungEsq

01-21-2007, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Capybara
I made you a cookie, but I eated it.
Hehehe, something has to feed them!

KlondikeGeoff

01-21-2007, 09:02 AM

I had the forlorn hope that perhaps when the new server took over, there would be an improvement in the speed, but it's even worse. In the year and a half have been here, it seems to get progressively worse.

Frequent delays of up to a minute just to get into the forum, then more delays in opening a thread, and often it will timeout and not open at all. Many times I can't get here at all, even in low-usage times.

Even longer delays in trying to post or preview.

This seems to be getting worse all the time and is really annoying. It is not my computer, as everything else works fine, including another forum (MobileRead) which seems to use the exact same software. No delays there at all. Ever.

What accounts for this and why can't it be fixed?

C K Dexter Haven

01-21-2007, 09:13 AM

Jerry's been notified.

For what it's worth, it seems to vary a lot. Most of the time, I've found it to be way way speedier than the old server. I've had only a couple of occasions of "somewhat slow." It may have to do with search function, it may have to do with editing one's own posts, it may have to do with your own computer/connection, it may have to do with somethin' else. Please bear with us. Implementation of new systems always involves some minor trauma.

samclem

01-21-2007, 09:14 AM

KlondikeGeoff. Since your post/thread was essentially about this one that was already running, I merged the two.

samclem GQ moderator

XJETGIRLX

01-21-2007, 09:29 AM

it may have to do with your own computer/connection

Considering the large number of people with the same exact complaint, I find this highly unlikely. Posters have been complaining for years about this exact same issue, through every software upgrade and tweak, and every single time one of the mods or admins comes in to suggest it might be on their end. Can we finally admit that 99.999999% of the time it is not a problem with the user's computer or connection and hang up this tired excuse once and for all?

Harmonious Discord

01-21-2007, 09:40 AM

I ignore the friday when reporting this. Pages have been slow loading at times, and I'm recieving errors of no respose from the server.

chowder

01-21-2007, 09:42 AM

Screw the rodents! It's time we modernized to greyhounds!

Buses?

Stick to our furry friends I say

EddyTeddyFreddy

01-21-2007, 10:03 AM

Buses?

Stick to our furry friends I sayHeh. I suppose if TPTB decided to go deluxe (ha!) we could try Thoroughbreds, although Jerry might object to the output maintenance requirements.

KlondikeGeoff

01-21-2007, 10:10 AM

Seriously, folks, this is getting ridiculous. Is the CPU maxed out? Copius RAM not being recognized? Memory allocation compromised? Some background task running that hogs the CPU? Has our server been taken over by porn site storage? Are SQL pointers bashed? Are the gamma rays attacking the marigolds? Did something overflow? Is a massive internal repair process going on? Re-indexing? Backing up? Slowing down? Hamster chow lower in calories? Hamsters mating with the Capybaras?

Musicat, I think the answer is "yes." You nailed it. :D

Ponder Stibbons

01-21-2007, 10:16 AM

Since the problem seems to happen sporadically, you don't suppose the root cause is bandwidth? Perhaps the SDMB needs a bigger "pipe"? I dunno, just throwing out ideas here.

Liberal

01-21-2007, 10:37 AM

One way to have only a couple of occasional "somewhat slow" experiences would be to have a limited number of experiences combined with luck. If, for example, just for example, say — if a person logs on three or four times for a few minutes each, reads a few threads and doesn't post much, then that person stands a chance of getting his page or two to read while the server is zippy, with only occasional somewhat slowness.

On the other hand, posters who are online for hours at a time, reading and posting copiously might tend to have a better grasp of the reality of the situation. One might argue that they are also a possible cause of the situation by virtue of their activity, but if that argument were true, it would imply that the server/communications specifications are inadequate.

Are there any mods or admins who spend a lot of time on the board reading and posting without experiencing more than one or two occasions of somewhat slowness?

Canadjun

01-21-2007, 01:03 PM

Since the problem seems to happen sporadically, you don't suppose the root cause is bandwidth? Perhaps the SDMB needs a bigger "pipe"? I dunno, just throwing out ideas here.
Given that it either seems fast or very slow, and those two states can rapidly alternate, that seems unlikely. If it was the size of the "pipe" then it seems to me the quality of the response should be more consistent; uniformly fast when not many people are using it, uniformly slow when a lot of people are using it.

BJMoose

01-21-2007, 01:22 PM

Edit function? Oh man, GD and the Pit are fucked. . . .
Not to worry. Posts are supposed to editable for only five minutes after being posted. After that, we still have to scrounge up virgins to offer to the mods.

Is there any chance that some of the slowness we attribute to the board is actually the fault of our own ISPs? (Mine is fond of occasionally giving me the boot for "inactivity".)

Musicat

01-21-2007, 01:50 PM

Is there any chance that some of the slowness we attribute to the board is actually the fault of our own ISPs? (Mine is fond of occasionally giving me the boot for "inactivity".)Not unless we all use the same ISP or all ISPs use the same software.

carnivorousplant

01-21-2007, 01:51 PM

After that, we still have to scrounge up virgins to offer to the mods.

But they're in Chicago. How will we find any there?

Liberal

01-21-2007, 04:10 PM

But they're in Chicago. How will we find any [virgins] there?What about Oprah?

carnivorousplant

01-21-2007, 04:28 PM

What about Oprah?

I got nothin'.

TubaDiva

01-22-2007, 07:58 AM

I would imagine that in these early days when there is still tweaking to be done that it will not be a perfect experience for a while.

You might consider this more testing while it all gets sorted out. We do ask for your patience while we move towards improvement.

dogbutler

01-22-2007, 09:02 AM

I fixed my problem, I had cookies blocked from 208.100.26.199. My apologies to the capybaras and other miscellaneous rodents.

wolf_meister

01-22-2007, 09:46 AM

Tuba Diva
I would imagine that in these early days when there is still tweaking to be done that it will not be a perfect experience for a while.
Was that copied and pasted from 2006? Or was it 2005? 2004? 2003? The Renaissance?

JimOfAllTrades

01-22-2007, 11:14 AM

Tuba,

Does it help any if we continue to report problems as they come up, or do you want to get through the shakedown first?

If Jerry is still actively working on the server it might just be an irritation to see the same reports over and over, but maybe he wants them to help track things down?

For what it’s worth, I’ve been seeing the same kind of thing as others have reported. Very good speed (virtually instantaneous) on 9 out 10 clicks, then a complete stop for anywhere from 1 up to 3 or 4 minutes. Then everything is fine again, lather, rinse, repeat.

Changing forums does seem to hit the stall more often than not, but searching seems fast all the time so far.

Let is know if we can help, and believe me when I say I appreciate all the work a transition like this can take. Tell Jerry THANKS! for me.

BrainGlutton

01-22-2007, 01:52 PM

For my part, I'm not noticing any improvement in speed. Nor in accessibility -- I must have gotten a "Network Error" message at least half a dozen times today.

Swallowed My Cellphone

01-22-2007, 03:27 PM

For my part, I'm not noticing any improvement in speed. Nor in accessibility -- I must have gotten a "Network Error" message at least half a dozen times today.That is my experience also. I would say 6 out of 10 times I try to access the message board, after a long wait I get a "server not responding" error.

(DSL, Mac OSX, browser Safari 2.0.4)

fisha

01-22-2007, 03:34 PM

The new server is significantly worse. Significantly.

The upside is my house is clean, taxes are done, painted the office.........

jdavis

01-22-2007, 03:37 PM

Canadjun

01-22-2007, 03:49 PM

Keeping my fingers crossed! I do hope you find what makes the gerbils/hamsters/capybaras fall over so much; otherwise this really is worse than before.

Musicat

01-22-2007, 05:45 PM

It looks like Jerry turned off the RSS feeds about 3:41PM, and the server was up and running for a while (mighty swift and spiffy, I might add!). But around 5:30PM I couldn't get any SDMB page to open at all.

Cunctator

01-22-2007, 05:51 PM

I've found it very hit and miss this morning (Tuesday).

KlondikeGeoff

01-22-2007, 05:52 PM

I believe I've tracked down the performance problem we've had since turning on some of the new features to an offending database query in the implementation of RSS feeds for vBulletin v3.0.7. That implementation can result in locking up the database anywhere from seconds to several minutes at a time. RSS feeds have therefore been turned off until I can determine what if any impact they are having on the performance problems since the move to the new server.

We'll see...

Jerry

Thanks for trying, we'll be patient. BUT, been browsing here with no problem until all of a sudden, massive slowness once again set in. :D

Could not get to any other board nor could I open any thread. FYI, this happened at approximately 4:35 Mountain time.

I finally went to other websites and still could not even get back in here. I closed my browser and then tried again and now OK. Same old, same old.

Incidentally, for those who wondered about connection speed, I'm on cable broadband at speeds around 8 Mbps, so that sure ain't the problem. As I noted in a previous post, I can access all other sites all the time at very fast rate, including other forums using same software.

Alas, alac and oh, shit!

gardentraveler

01-22-2007, 06:19 PM

I'm seeing periodic slowness, too. Especially around 6:30 Eastern; my connection timed out. I've also had a couple of slow patches in the past 20 minutes or so. I've got a cable connection and it's moving much faster on other sites and in between slow-downs.

Good luck puzzling this one out! Let us know if there's anything we can help test.

GT

jdavis

01-22-2007, 06:47 PM

Since disabling of RSS feeds the frequency of lockups looks to be declining at least from what I'm using to measure server performance. That doesn't mean there won't be other lockups caused by other functionality, such as a particularly long and intensive search, but in general I expect the recent performance problems to lessen. The frequency if not the severity although possibly both.

Jerry

jdavis

01-22-2007, 08:37 PM

...and apparently reducing the impact of RSS feeds on the SDMB was not as easy as just turning off the vBulletin options that had been turned on earlier. I made some additional modifications that I hope will completely remove the impact.

Jerry

Squink

01-22-2007, 09:00 PM

Hysteresis! :eek:

Give it a whack!

carnivorousplant

01-22-2007, 09:19 PM

Thanks for trying, we'll be patient. [/SIZE]

I hate it when my users say that. As though I were some moronic twit...never mind.
It's faster for me than it was, and my satellite connection or the 24k(!) dial up cause any delay problems I have.

Musicat

01-22-2007, 09:22 PM

I'm seeing periodic slowness, too. Especially around 6:30 Eastern; my connection timed out.The board was entirely dead about that time. Since that was long after the RSS feeds were disabled, there was something else going on. Maybe Jerry has tweaked it just right by now. I'm crossing my fingers.

When it works, it's great.

jdavis

01-22-2007, 09:24 PM

Hysteresis! :eek:

Give it a whack!

How about a garland of garlic, a cross, a mallet, and a wooden stake? Die already.....!!!!!

samclem

01-22-2007, 09:26 PM

The last hour or so, it's flying. I haven't had a hang up since around 8:30 or so. Not keeping exact track.

jdavis

01-22-2007, 09:30 PM

The board was entirely dead about that time. Since that was long after the RSS feeds were disabled, there was something else going on. Maybe Jerry has tweaked it just right by now. I'm crossing my fingers.

Unfortunately, the RSS code even though disabled in the vBulletin control settings was STILL allowing RSS feeds to query the database even after the functionality was supposedly turned off. Have to hand it to that vBulletin design...it's extremely fault-tolerant. :mad:

Jerry

MsWhatsit

01-22-2007, 09:38 PM

Thanks for doing the legwork on this, Jerry. Everything seems to be rolling along quite nicely now, at least from this user's perspective.

Squink

01-22-2007, 09:52 PM

Have to hand it to that vBulletin design...it's extremely fault-tolerant.To a fault. ;)

DSYoungEsq

01-22-2007, 09:52 PM

Unfortunately, the RSS code even though disabled in the vBulletin control settings was STILL allowing RSS feeds to query the database even after the functionality was supposedly turned off. Have to hand it to that vBulletin design...it's extremely fault-tolerant. :mad:

Jerry
What's that version of Murphy's Law and fool-proofing? :D

Ruby

01-22-2007, 10:24 PM

I just had another time out error at 11:18 pm and a variety of slow page loads since around 10pm this evening.

[gratuitous suckup] Jerry, thanks for all your great work! [/gs]

Seriously, I know you hear enough bitches from us to last you a lifetime but you should know that we really do appreciate all that you do. Does chocolate work for you like the mods?

jdavis

01-22-2007, 11:49 PM

Just to be clear I want to say it's still the case that the server will both slow down and time out. What I believe I have done is reduce the frequency of slow down and time out by stopping one specific functionality, RSS feeds, that I know was impacting the performance of the new server.

We are still on the same version of vBulletin that we were running on the old server. I'd expect we'll see the same issues we did on the old server but I also expect when the board is functioning well it will function faster than it did in the past.

Now that we've moved to a faster piece of hardware and I believe I've resolved the issue that was forcing us to delete posts (and I'll know if this is true in about 2 days) the next step is to move us to a newer version of the vBulletin software. I actually will not be surprised if the upgrade in vBulletin software does little to improve the performance of the board. It's never that easy. From what I can tell other large sites running vBulletin have had to make non-trivial customizations to the vBulletin software along with running much more extensive hardware than the SDMB does inorder to get vBulletin to perform better in a large database environment.

I guess what I'm saying is things are moving in a positive direction. Not that they are "fixed".

Jerry

Q.E.D.

01-22-2007, 11:57 PM

FWIW, I've not experienced any slowdowns tonight since I got home around 7:00 or so, and it's nearly 1:00 AM now. I haven't been on constantly, of course, but enough to notice a definite improvement. I think you're on the right track. If you know what times the slowdowns have occurred, you'll probably want to have a look at the activity logs for those times. Something might jump out at you. In any case, the boards are decidedly faster, otherwise.

wolf_meister

01-23-2007, 12:17 AM

Far be it from me to complain about the SDMB server efficiency :D , but besides eliminating the RSS feeds what if you chose to shut down some of the other "features"? Doing away with private messaging, editing posts, use of smilies, search functions, starting a new thread, posting to a thread, reading a thread, typing in text, logging in, etc would probably increase speed wouldn't it?
I imagine the only essential "feature" that must be left in place would be the annual subscription fee.
Yeah, Jerry I'm being incredibly sarcastic but I'm not faulting you. It just seems that no matter what the Straight Dope, the Chicago Reader, God Almighty or even Cecil decides to do about the operation of this message board, the net result is usually frustration, aggravation, tedium, etc.

elmwood

01-23-2007, 12:20 AM

I believe I've tracked down the performance problem we've had since turning on some of the new features to an offending database query in the implementation of RSS feeds for vBulletin v3.0.7.

Think that might be fixed in 3.6.4? I've had no problems with RSS feeds on my site, but then again I've got less traffic of the SDMB.

EDIT: What kernel is the new server running?

[url]http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171071

elmwood

01-23-2007, 12:28 AM

Also, the pruning could have actually slowed down the SDMB! Well, at least according to what's being reported in this thread:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111239

From one of the posts:

I find after pruning large #'s of posts like 500,000 posts. That the indexes in mysql are no longer optimized. The forum will run alot slower and the load average will rise when over 600 users are online.

I run this command to rebuild the index's after a large prune and it makes a world of difference.

Only run this if you database server is shutdown
Code:

myisamchk -r --sort-index --analyze *.MYI

You can also run is as a SQL command with the server running, but I prefer the command line.

dogbutler

01-23-2007, 12:32 AM

Seems fast at 0128 EST. I got a few timeout earlier. I guess things are fixed(or everyone is asleep or surfing pr0n).

jdavis

01-23-2007, 12:33 AM

jdavis

01-23-2007, 12:35 AM

Think that might be fixed in 3.6.4? I've had no problems with RSS feeds on my site, but then again I've got less traffic of the SDMB.

EDIT: What kernel is the new server running?

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171071

We run FreeBSD.

elmwood

01-23-2007, 06:03 AM

We run FreeBSD.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, since I'm stuck on a VPS with a CentOS kernel - what are the advantages of a Web server running FreeBSD over your typical run-of-the-mill distro?

BTW, things seem fine over here; the SDMB loads quickly.

jdavis

01-23-2007, 07:24 AM

Just to satisfy my curiosity, since I'm stuck on a VPS with a CentOS kernel - what are the advantages of a Web server running FreeBSD over your typical run-of-the-mill distro?

I've used versions of BSDes since 1985 so I have a bit more familiarity with them than the various linuxes. I also like the FreeBSD minimal server install as opposed to what at least I thought was an "everything including the kitchen sink" installs I was getting when I was using Red Hat for a time. Mostly it's just personal preference and the desire to continue using one OS since almost all of the Unix servers I've built are running FreeBSD.

glee

01-23-2007, 07:31 AM

Now that we've moved to a faster piece of hardware and I believe I've resolved the issue that was forcing us to delete posts (and I'll know if this is true in about 2 days) the next step is to move us to a newer version of the vBulletin software. I actually will not be surprised if the upgrade in vBulletin software does little to improve the performance of the board. It's never that easy. From what I can tell other large sites running vBulletin have had to make non-trivial customizations to the vBulletin software along with running much more extensive hardware than the SDMB does inorder to get vBulletin to perform better in a large database environment.

I guess what I'm saying is things are moving in a positive direction. Not that they are "fixed".

Jerry

Jerry, you're doing something that benefits us all.
Please imagine a stadium filled with SDMB subscribers all chanting "Jerry! Jerry!"

Rather like Saruman addressing a horde of Uruk-Hai, if you see what I mean....

jdavis

01-23-2007, 07:35 AM

Rather like Saruman addressing a horde of Uruk-Hai, if you see what I mean....

I do see what you mean and hopefully Wormtongue isn't in the audience...

Sage Rat

01-23-2007, 08:24 AM

Sage Rat

01-23-2007, 08:28 AM

Just to satisfy my curiosity, since I'm stuck on a VPS with a CentOS kernel - what are the advantages of a Web server running FreeBSD over your typical run-of-the-mill distro?
FreeBSD is a different kernel than Linux. But from a user standpoint there really shouldn't be any practical difference except for how packages are distributed, configured, and installed. I believe all the basic stuff is still all GNU, X Windows, Ext-3, etc. (though I'm not sure of that.)

jdavis

01-23-2007, 10:11 AM

I would recommend checking what the lock settings are for the database. Does an insert lock the whole table? Just a column? Etc.

MySQL defaults to table locking, which is good for mostly-read-only databases, but sucks for high-speed insertion and would come out like what we're experiencing. Dunno what database system you all are using, but I would suspect that there are a couple of settings.

MyISAM table-types use table level locking and vBulletin is designed around the assumption a site is using MySQL/MyISAM as the database/table-type. We use MySQL/MyISAM.

I've heard of at least one vBulletin site switching to MySQL InnoDB table-types in order to get row level locking but then switching back to MyISAM because they found InnoDB has it's own negatives. As you said, table level locking can suck at times for high-speed multi-user record insertion/update environments.

Liberal

01-23-2007, 11:27 AM

For what it may be worth, everything for me is much better today. I read a lot and post often, and I had some terrible slowdowns and timeouts before today. But so far today, none at all.

Liberal

01-23-2007, 12:20 PM

Oopsie. Okay. One.

DSYoungEsq

01-23-2007, 12:44 PM

Nothing today for me, which is a definite improvement over yesterday. Frustration ruled then.

Of course, I've been spending a lot of time over at ParadoxPlaza, since Europa Universalis III came out today!! :D

So I haven't been as active here...

RaftPeople

01-23-2007, 02:50 PM

MyISAM table-types use table level locking and vBulletin is designed around the assumption a site is using MySQL/MyISAM as the database/table-type. We use MySQL/MyISAM.

I've heard of at least one vBulletin site switching to MySQL InnoDB table-types in order to get row level locking but then switching back to MyISAM because they found InnoDB has it's own negatives. As you said, table level locking can suck at times for high-speed multi-user record insertion/update environments.

Why use vBulletin/MySQL/MyISAM knowing it has such a significant problem? Surely there is a software/db combo without such a significant problem.

Liberal

01-23-2007, 03:50 PM

It has degraded considerably over the course of the late afternoon.

Q.E.D.

01-23-2007, 03:59 PM

It has degraded considerably over the course of the late afternoon.
Not for me; it's still as fast as ever. I had a brief slowdown earlier, but that was the extent of it.

jdavis

01-23-2007, 03:59 PM

Why use vBulletin/MySQL/MyISAM knowing it has such a significant problem? Surely there is a software/db combo without such a significant problem.

There may in fact be. At the time the move from UBB to vBulletin was actually a vast improvement over how UBB was functioning. We would not have grown into a site with this problem if vBulletin was a bad system from the start. I'm not even saying vBulletin is a bad system now, it just has some deficiencies. Those deficiencies revealed themselves slowly over time as we created a larger and then larger still database.

One major issue to be considered is how do you convert 6.7M posts, 315K threads, and 63K users from their current vBulletin representation into the new software/db combo representation? If you know of a system that can do that I'd be interested in hearing about it.

RaftPeople

01-23-2007, 04:49 PM

There may in fact be. At the time the move from UBB to vBulletin was actually a vast improvement over how UBB was functioning. We would not have grown into a site with this problem if vBulletin was a bad system from the start. I'm not even saying vBulletin is a bad system now, it just has some deficiencies. Those deficiencies revealed themselves slowly over time as we created a larger and then larger still database.

When the system is performing well I think it's a good system, but that one aspect really brings it down a notch in my opinion.

One major issue to be considered is how do you convert 6.7M posts, 315K threads, and 63K users from their current vBulletin representation into the new software/db combo representation? If you know of a system that can do that I'd be interested in hearing about it.

I'm really not knowledgeable about BB/Forum software so I wouldn't know if there are packages that have conversions written from other packages. There is always the option of writing a conversion, but I understand that takes time and money.

elmwood

01-23-2007, 09:21 PM

I'm really not knowledgeable about BB/Forum software so I wouldn't know if there are packages that have conversions written from other packages. There is always the option of writing a conversion, but I understand that takes time and money.

First off, the board seems fast to me now.

Secondly, most other message board packages will have conversion utilities from the most popular message baord programs: vBulletin, phpBB, and Invision Power Board at a minimum.

Of the three, phpBB is the most popular, but it's also filled with security problems that need constant attention, and administration is far more awkward than with vBulletin. Invision Power Board has its fans, and it's known for having a very good admin control panel. However, it's not considered as secure or speedy as newer versions of vBulletin by many.

PunBB seems to have a lot of respect among those that like no-frills message board systems, but there are no boards even close to the SDMB's size that use PunBB. It's very fast, but can it scale up to a message board the size of vBulletin?

UBB is still around. It's not really a major player on the message board scene.

Really, if you took a vote among message board administrators of what the best message board program, you would probably find that, discounting fanboys, vBulletin would probably score at the top.

Sage Rat

01-24-2007, 05:37 AM

Hm, well I guess that the SDMB is one of the most posted to boards on the internet. I would have to wonder if there are any bulletin systems even made for this many active users. 99% of all BBSes have twenty posts per day as maximum, I would bet. We probably have a few hundred or more.

DSYoungEsq

01-24-2007, 05:51 AM

Sage Rat

01-24-2007, 05:52 AM

Is there any way to know if all posts are stored in the same table? Or more importantly, if there's a way to ask vBulletin to give each forum it's own table if they are not?

It might be worth emailing the vBulletin developers. Even if there isn't a configuration option that will work for us now, they might be able to create a fix for the next version. Certainly it seems like the problem isn't that the server isn't fast enough serving, rather that something is getting locked and we're having to wait for it.

XJETGIRLX

01-24-2007, 06:09 AM

Hm, well I guess that the SDMB is one of the most posted to boards on the internet.

According to Big Boards, the SDMB ranks 112 (http://www.big-boards.com/highlight/15/) according to number of posts, just above 'Outdoors Best' and 'RC Groups'. The top 25 boards along with the number of posts, members, and type of software used are listed on their front page (http://www.big-boards.com/).

I have not noticed any long lags or time-outs either yesterday or today, but I would hardly say it's been fast. Much better than over the weekend though.

scottkris

01-26-2007, 07:49 AM

Well, after 1 week, the server finally seems to have settled down. Certainly not as slow as last weekend, but also certainly not as fast as most (of the pollyannas wanted it) thought it could be.

Musicat

01-26-2007, 08:05 AM

I'd say it's lightning fast now.

Except when it stalls or hangs. But the stalls and hangs are less frequent and of shorter duration.

Wonderful when it works.

scottkris

01-26-2007, 08:35 AM

I'd say it's lightning fast now.

Except when it stalls or hangs. But the stalls and hangs are less frequent and of shorter duration.

Wonderful when it works.

;)
30 minutes after I posted my messsage, I get a "time out"
(well, not really...1 waited 45 seconds for it to load and it did not, but all other webpages, except youtube on a bad day, load faster. I am not going to wait for IE to tell me the page cannot load if I can load 5 other pages first.)

Quiddity Glomfuster

01-26-2007, 10:09 AM

According to Big Boards, the SDMB ranks 112 (http://www.big-boards.com/highlight/15/) according to number of posts, just above 'Outdoors Best' and 'RC Groups'. The top 25 boards along with the number of posts, members, and type of software used are listed on their front page (http://www.big-boards.com/).

Interesting how many 'rate this person's photo' forums are in the top 100 - as well as how many Honda fans are fond enough of their machines to participate in forums
(I love mine but am not that crazy about it). [/hijack]

I've encountered lags yesterday and this morning. From my POV, the boards are marginally better but not spectacularly so. I do enjoy the edits, though; mad props to the Dopers who add extra giggles via edit messages.

neutron star

01-28-2007, 02:46 AM

I've noticed a very substantial improvement since I submitted my OP. Turning off the RSS feeds seems to have (mostly) done the trick.

No, it's not perfect. Yes, I do get occasional timeouts. Overall, however, things seem to be far better than they were on the old server.

Thanks, Jerry!

Now, if you can simply tweak things to absolute perfection, and restore the old threads, you will be a god among (IT) men. :)