Toby Kieth Ensuckens Dead Gay Donkey Balls [Archive]

elucidator

01-26-2007, 05:29 PM

...Keith doesn't support the Iraq war -- "Never did," he says -- and he favors setting a time limit on the occupation. He says he suspects civil war in Iraq is inevitable and predicts the Kurds will be the victors: "I promise you, they'll end up with it all."...
You craven sack of country cow pie. You were out there grabbing the bucks with both hands, pushing pro-war propaganda and shitting all over the Dixies for having the balls and brains you so abundantly lack. (How can you lack something "in abundance"? Shaddup! I'm pissed!...)

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

Witness the above linked image, and tell me that it is anything but nauseating. Tell me this festering sack deserves anything but being staked out in a pasture so cows can sit on his face for mustache rides.

...Keith says that wasn't the case. In his mind, that Dixie Chick -- "I still refuse to say the name" -- was attacking him personally and trying to squash his freedom of speech, just as dictators such as Hussein did. "Are you the new tyrant in town?" Keith says of Maines. "It's like, here, you're in this family -- this is where you belong."...
Yeah, you tell 'em, maraschino machismo. Little bitty slip of a girl, "squash his freedom of speech." Sure thing, nutless. You exploited that incident for every dime you could squeeze, you played the pimp, the shill. How many ignorant country boys became dead country boys, at least in part due to your encouragement? Glorifying war goes beyond blasphemy, next time you say "Jesus" your tongue should catch fire.

And now this festering cow pie.

Don't talk. Just drink a boiling cup of STFU. Take up a serious drug habit. Pray that Kitty Welles forgives you. Go sit at the feet of Willy with a pad and pencil and take notes. "Never did". Go fuck a road kill armadillo.

Godfrey Daniels

01-26-2007, 05:44 PM

Solid 10.

Orbifold

01-26-2007, 05:51 PM

An example of a rat deserting a sinking ship, I guess.

John Mace

01-26-2007, 05:56 PM

Where are you getting all those quotes from? The link to that blog has maybe one sentence about TK, as far as I can tell. Before I jump on this bandwagon, I'd like a little more proof that TK ever claimed to support the Iraq war. I seem to remember reading quite some time ago that he was against it. But I don't follow this kind of stuff very closely, so my memory might be off.

elucidator

01-26-2007, 06:06 PM

John Mace

01-26-2007, 06:06 PM

OK, my memory is still good. Here's a cite from Sept 2003 (http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/20030926toby0926fnp5.asp) with him questioning the Iraq war:

Away from the firepower of the stage, this fighting man from Oklahoma said that he has decided to call a cease-fire in his ugly feud with the Dixie Chicks ("We had fun with it, but I'm just done with it"), that he still has lingering questions about the necessity of the war in Iraq ("Honestly, I'm still doing the math on that") and that he wonders whether the hit song, "(Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue) The Angry American," has typecast him ("People think I bang the war drum, and that's not me").

<snip>

"Look, my stance is I pick and choose my wars. This war here [in Iraq], the math hasn't worked out for me on it. But I'm smart enough to know there's people smarter than me. [National security adviser] Condoleezza Rice, [Secretary of State] Colin Powell, George Bush -- this is their job, and I have to trust in them. I support the commander in chief and the troops."

Keith took a long pause to consider his words, and then added: "I was for Afghanistan, 100 percent. We got struck and the Taliban needed to be exterminated, but this war here, in Iraq, I didn't necessarily have it all worked out. It didn't work out for me. I know a tyrant is gone and all of that, but whether it was our duty to go do that, well, I haven't figured that out."

elucidator

01-26-2007, 06:10 PM

"Ooopsy!" and "Never happened" are mutually exclusive.

Stratocaster

01-26-2007, 06:27 PM

"Ooopsy!" and "Never happened" are mutually exclusive.Where's the ooopsy?

Oakminster

01-26-2007, 06:43 PM

Not going to take a position on the merits, pending further cites.

However, that was an excellent rant. Eye catching title, lots of venom, creative and colorful language. A thing of beauty. Still, the deduction for failing to include a single "fuckwit" applies. 9/10*

*highest rating I've ever awarded here.

Squink

01-26-2007, 06:50 PM

Toby Kieth Ensuckens Dead Gay Donkey Balls
...and it's Clinton's fault: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_kieth) Toby Keith Covel was born in Clinton, Oklahoma. His family moved to Moore, Oklahoma (a suburb of Oklahoma City) when Keith was young...

elucidator

01-26-2007, 06:54 PM

Where's the ooopsy?
I mean in the sense that "I was wrong, I've changed my mind" is antithetical to "I never thought that way, nor expressed such opinions".

elucidator

01-26-2007, 07:00 PM

PS to Oakie: I resist "fuckwit" for the same reason I resist smilies. I don't happen to know what that reason is, but I am confident that I have one, and its a pretty good one. Thanks for da prop.

silenus

01-26-2007, 07:47 PM

I hope luci turns out to be wrong about this. I was looking forward to eating at Keith's "I Love This Bar and Grill" next time we were in Vegas. If he(Keith) is really that big an asshole, I'll have to eat elsewhere, just because.

But yeah, a well-crafted rant. I concur with the rating.

Starving Artist

01-26-2007, 07:53 PM

Perhaps good ol' luci has misconfabulated Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue to be a pro-Iraq war song. It wasn't. It was a kick al Qaeda's ass song.

Overall good rant, though, luci. I particularly liked the fact that you were able to bring yourself up short in mid-rant to comment on the dichotomy of "lacking in abundance."

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I gotcha smilies, right heah!

Oh, by the way...yay, Toby! You da MAN!

(Except by and large I don't like country music. What the hell kind of conservative am I, anyway?)

John Mace

01-26-2007, 08:02 PM

Well, I didn't think anybody would actually click them.....

Good catch. The link provided doesn't go to the verbiage mound. It was there as an illustration of linking the Dixies to Saddam, treason, you know the routine. A visual example of the level of slimeitude.

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/music/ny-ettoby0128,0,6077773.story?coll=ny-music-headlines

has the interview.
The business of squashing his freedom of speech is childish and silly, but note that isn't a direct quote. We don't really know exactly what he said. The picture of TDCs and SH together is loathsome and slimy. But I don't see him pushing pro-war propaganda. He wrote an angry song about the attacks of 9/11/01, but so what? Like the article you linked to says:

Raise your right hand if you think Keith is a pro-military type who voted twice for George W. Bush, supported the invasion of Afghanistan and watches Fox News. Raise your left if you think he is a registered Democrat who voted twice for Bill Clinton, opposed the war in Iraq and suspects Fox News merely panders to the right to boost ratings.

Either way, you're correct -- and whichever hand went up probably says more about you than about Keith.
Emphasis added.

Argent Towers

01-26-2007, 08:09 PM

It's a shame that someone who makes such unique and beautiful music would be such an idiot. I haven't felt this way since Chad Kroeger of Nickelback claimed that the Jews stole his cerebral cortex.

Rufus Xavier

01-26-2007, 08:38 PM

Toby has admitted, for the record, that George Bush is smarter than him. For that alone, maybe you could see your way to ease up on him a tad.

elucidator

01-26-2007, 08:40 PM

Mr. Moto

01-26-2007, 08:42 PM

John Mace

01-26-2007, 08:54 PM

You have a much greater enthusiasm for precision parsing than I, John. I'm not about to go combing over every public statement of TK. I am entirely willing to accept offense as defense, when he slurs the patriotism of others and uses images associated with the Iraq war (i.e., Saddam) to that end! I am entirely justified in assessing that to be a defense of same. There was no nuance in his tactics, its a bit late to claim there was nuance in his thinking.
And I said that tactic was "loathsome", so we're on the same page. At least one other poster in this thread seem to think he is rat leaving a sinking ship, when that is not an accurate assessment at all. Rather, it's a knee-jerk reaction to jump on the bandwagon without taking the time to understand the facts.

elucidator

01-26-2007, 08:54 PM

"America the Beautiful" is "heart-on-your-sleeve patriotism". Mr. Keith was a war pimp.

Equipoise

01-26-2007, 08:56 PM

FUTK

Mr. Moto

01-26-2007, 09:00 PM

"America the Beautiful" is "heart-on-your-sleeve patriotism". Mr. Keith was a war pimp.

Except that the evidence shows that he wasn't. Unless, of course, you're talking about Afghanistan, in which case most of the country, including most members of this board, would be in similar shoes.

elucidator

01-26-2007, 09:45 PM

Jonathan Chance

01-26-2007, 09:48 PM

It's a shame that someone who makes such unique and beautiful music would be such an idiot. I haven't felt this way since Chad Kroeger of Nickelback claimed that the Jews stole his cerebral cortex.
Well, to be fair to him, we did. It was the only way to get him to perform in such a terrible band.

I've still got it up in the attic someplace.

Li'l Pluck

01-26-2007, 09:55 PM

<snip> though my taste tends more toward George Jones or Merle when I'm listening to country.

::High-five. Or fist bump, or whatever those crazy kids are doin' these days.::

elucidator

01-26-2007, 09:58 PM

You get down on all four and sniff each other's butt. No, really, I saw them doing it down at the Mall...

Starving Artist

01-26-2007, 10:13 PM

FUTKFuck Under Toby Keith?

Fuck Until Toby Keith?

What?

Starving Artist

01-26-2007, 10:15 PM

You get down on all four and sniff each other's butt. No, really, I saw them doing it down at the Mall...In a mirror, no doubt.

Orbifold

01-26-2007, 10:17 PM

Huh.

The people on this board are confusing heart-on-your-sleeve patriotism with pro-war sentiment, something they constantly accuse right-wingers of doing.

I have no beef with Toby Keith, though my taste tends more toward George Jones or Merle when I'm listening to country.

Someone who displays this image at his concerts (http://tinyurl.com/36olz8) has more problems than "heart-on-your-sleeve patriotism". Toby Keith is an asshat.

wring

01-26-2007, 10:20 PM

In a mirror, no doubt.
ooooooh, a clever variation of the classic "I know you are, but what am I".

obviously some have underestimated you.

Oakminster

01-26-2007, 10:33 PM

Sorry to interupt. Could someone please pass the whooshtershire sauce?

Argent Towers

01-26-2007, 10:33 PM

Sorry to interupt. Could someone please pass the whooshtershire sauce?

What do you mean?

Starving Artist

01-26-2007, 10:39 PM

ooooooh, a clever variation of the classic "I know you are, but what am I".

obviously some have underestimated you.To you, perhaps.

As to the vastly more intelligent and excruciatingly humorous elucidator, I have no doubt the humor will not be lost.

He may not share in it, but he will at least recognize it.

I see I haven't underestimated you.

Psst...btw, luci, it's spelled Keith. Remember, it's I before E except after C...except for all the times it isn't.

Oakminster

01-26-2007, 10:46 PM

What do you mean?

That whatever FUTK means went whooshing right over my head.

Apparently so did the ability to quote the relevant post to communicate effectively.
My bad.

elucidator

01-26-2007, 10:55 PM

If you assume the "TK" part is Toby Keeth, the "FU" pretty much explains itself.

Taber

01-26-2007, 10:57 PM

That whatever FUTK means went whooshing right over my head.

Apparently so did the ability to quote the relevant post to communicate effectively.
My bad.

I think it's F. U. Toby Keith, otherwise known as Fuck You, Toby Keith

Oakminster

01-26-2007, 10:59 PM

Ah. A more sober Oakie woulda grokked that. But it's Friday night, and if I sober up, the terrorists win.

Starving Artist

01-26-2007, 11:05 PM

I think it's F. U. Toby Keith, otherwise known as Fuck You, Toby KeithYep. Equipoise may be just a hotheaded old granny, but at least she's down with teh leetspeak.

Menocchio

01-27-2007, 12:00 AM

If you assume the "TK" part is Toby Keeth, the "FU" pretty much explains itself.

Actually the Dixie Chick in question explains that it stands for "Friends United in Truth and Kindness".

No, really!

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 12:11 AM

She didn't also try to sell you a bridge, by any chance?

elucidator

01-27-2007, 12:15 AM

If Ms. Mains wants a bridge, I'll steal her one! I'd even be willing to risk the feared and dreaded "four hour limit"!

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 12:24 AM

Que?

I hate to admit it, but you're over my head with this one.

And besides, I asked if she tried to sell him a bridge...not buy one. A not so insignificant point, this.

You are cranked up, aren't ya?

John Mace

01-27-2007, 01:02 AM

Been wandering over quite a few interviews over the last several years, very similar to the one cited above by John. Similar in vague misgivings, uncertainty, a sense that maybe, just maybe, this isn't the greatest things since the pedal steel was invented. Nuanced. Fukin' oodles of nuance.
So, we've established that he's not Cindy Sheehan.

At the very least, this stands in considerable contrast to his statement, referenced above, that he "doesn't support the Iraq war (and) never did". And I think his attacks on the patriotism of Bush critics such as the Dixies speaks volumes, esp. when considered in the light of the images chosen.
I don't see why that stands in contrast. None of those statements, as wishy-washy as they might be, could be called "support" for the Iraq war. If he had said he had been an outspoken opponent of the Iraq war from the beginning, then I'd agree. But all he's saying is that he didn't support the war. Shit, it was just an off-the-cuff line he gave to an interviewer for God's sake. Should he have said: Gee, let me go back and check all the statements about the war I've ever made and see if I can accurately reflect the general impression I've given.

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 01:09 AM

Yep. Equipoise may be just a hotheaded old granny, but at least she's down with teh leetspeak.

It's Dixie-speak. After Keith pulled his bullshit with the Natalie Maines/Saddam Hussein poster, Maines wore a T-shirt to one of her concerts with "FUTK" on the front, in glitter even.

I love that woman!

FUSA

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 01:20 AM

Btw, to anyone who's not a brain-damaged right-winger (leaves you out Starving Artist) I'd highly recommend the documentary Shut Up and Sing. My favorite part is when they're sitting around watching Bush on TV and he says some fuckheaded thing like 'She [speaking of Natalie] shouldn't have her feelings hurt because some people don't want to buy her records' and Natalie says something like 'feelings hurt, what a fuckhead' then turns to the camera as if she's speaking directly to Bush and says "You're a fuckhead!"

Imagine if THAT had gotten out at the time! That really would have given the yokels something to bray about.

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 01:39 AM

It's Dixie-speak. After Keith pulled his bullshit with the Natalie Maines/Saddam Hussein poster, Maines wore a T-shirt to one of her concerts with "FUTK" on the front, in glitter even.

I love that woman!Figures.

She panders to a foreign audience, says/does provocative things to get attention (like the t-shirt), and lies about what she said (like the meaning of the t-shirt). What's not to love? She's a leftie through and through!

FUSAFuck the USA? Sounds about right...you know, considering the source and all.

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 01:46 AM

...turns to the camera as if she's speaking directly to Bush and says "You're a fuckhead!"Wow! What class! I can see why she's your hero!

Imagine if THAT had gotten out at the time! That really would have given the yokels something to bray about.Yeah! Imagine! Her career would have been totally toast instead of barely slogging along like it is now while she and her unfortunate bandmates try to keep their chins up and pretend that it's all worth it.

Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. What a dumbass!

Quiddity Glomfuster

01-27-2007, 01:53 AM

Her career would have been totally toast instead of barely slogging along like it is now while she and her unfortunate bandmates try to keep their chins up and pretend that it's all worth it.

Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. What a dumbass!

Hell yeah. That idiot should have sold out. Cashing in your principles is what's done these days. Screw that ethics crap. Yeee ha.

(barf)

woodstockbirdybird

01-27-2007, 02:03 AM

Wow! What class! I can see why she's your hero!

Yeah! Imagine! Her career would have been totally toast instead of barely slogging along like it is now while she and her unfortunate bandmates try to keep their chins up and pretend that it's all worth it.

Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. What a dumbass!

Slogging along, eh? According to Amazon, the Dixie Chicks's most recent album (2006) has a sales rank of #36 for music. Toby Keith's latest (also released 2006) has a sales rank of #1,451. I'm not a fan of either, but it seems the Dixie Chicks are doing pretty well with the buying public.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 02:09 AM

I think it's a lame rant. luci, if you are reduced to ragging on artists/bands because of perceived political stances, perhaps you should stop eating food, because those eeeviil corporations produce and bring it to your table. Or stop driving a car because the eevil oil companies produce the gas you use. And so on ad nauseum....

Dude, I don't disagree with a good bit of your bullshit, but you have plenty of real targets out there, and posts like this make you sound like a whiny little bitch who spends all fucking day looking for stupid shit to post.

Lately, you sound like what the Dems are trying to get away from, saying "Waaa, those sowwy wight wingas, even Toby is a war-mongering bastard!"

You have the torch now, quit whining and be somebody." Your Reederish shit is getting old and won't win you any converts.

Dude, you ain't as good as you once was..... :dubious:

How do you like me now? ;)

Bonus points if you get the Toby quotes.

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 02:14 AM

Hell yeah. That idiot should have sold out. Cashing in your principles is what's done these days. Screw that ethics crap. Yeee ha.

(barf)Like I said, what a dumbass!

Keeping your stupid mouth shut isn't selling out! Who the fuck appointed that dingbat to deliver assessments of GWB or his presidency? She wasn't on some noble mission, she was sucking up to what she already knew was a sympathetic audience in a stupid and transparent attempt to gain their approval and make them like her even more than they already did. It backfired bigtime and rightfully so.

People work and struggle and suffer and sacrifice for years and years just hoping against hope that someday they can achieve the success in the entertainment business that that silly dipshit already had in hand, and just because her own opinion of her own opinion is so high she threw it all away...and she continues to drag her band down because she's too stupid and too prideful to keep her mouth shut now.

Can you say Don Quixote? Can you say foolishly tilting at windmills?

Yeah...I thought that you could.

:rolleyes:

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 02:19 AM

Slogging along, eh? According to Amazon, the Dixie Chicks's most recent album (2006) has a sales rank of #36 for music. Toby Keith's latest (also released 2006) has a sales rank of #1,451. I'm not a fan of either, but it seems the Dixie Chicks are doing pretty well with the buying public.Who knows? There a lots of variables to consider, like when the albums were released relative to each other, how good the actual material was, who's having to cancel concert after concert *cough* The Dixie Chicks in my hometown and others just this last year *cough* and who's selling out concert after concert. Given that I don't have factual answers to these questions, you may be right in that the Dixie Chicks are doing better than Toby Keith right now, but I doubt it very, very much.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 03:01 AM

Quiddity Glomfuster

01-27-2007, 03:15 AM

Keeping your stupid mouth shut isn't selling out!

'Only thing necessary for evil to prevail' and all that. Sure, you can shuffle your feet and pretend that you don't notice what your bozo president is doing to your nation, another nation, and the rest of the planet (i.e. be a coward) or you can say something. That gal became one of my heroes the day she stood up and spoke out.
Who the fuck appointed that dingbat to deliver assessments of GWB or his presidency?
Apparently the concept of 'free speech', 'freedom' and all that blather that I keep hearing so fervently proclaimed only applies to people who 'shut up' when their views aren't popular. Oh that's really worth fighting for, that is.
She wasn't on some noble mission, she was sucking up to what she already knew was a sympathetic audience in a stupid and transparent attempt to gain their approval and make them like her even more than they already did.
Nothing I love more than people who can read minds and who therefore can be trusted to ascribe motivation with deadly accuracy.
People work and struggle and suffer and sacrifice for years and years just hoping against hope that someday they can achieve the success in the entertainment business that that silly dipshit already had in hand, and just because her own opinion of her own opinion is so high she threw it all away...and she continues to drag her band down because she's too stupid and too prideful to keep her mouth shut now.
And poor little Billy Gates worked and struggled and sacrificed and lived in a garage just to make his tens of billions of dollars and that moron's going to throw it all away!!! On poor folks!!! Sick black ones at that!!!! The horror!!!!!!! When he could keep his lovely dollars all to himself. :rolleyes:
Can you say Don Quixote? Can you say foolishly tilting at windmills?

"It is only with the heart that one sees rightly".

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 03:32 AM

So one of your heroes is some country music chick because she said Bush was an idiot?
And Toby is the anti-christ because he said some vague "pro war shit?

Man, you need to get out more.

Liberal

01-27-2007, 03:43 AM

Witness the above linked image, and tell me that it is anything but nauseating.Okay, it's also a little bit funny. I don't know why you're so nauseated. Since when have you been averse to people being belittled by token attempts at humor?

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 03:44 AM

Natalie Maines cost the Chicks millions over her remarks in London. Whats the fucking point? :ots of people are against the war and Bush. She fucked up. Do you go to your job every day and scream "Bush Sucks"?

She wanted to score cheap points at the expense of her band and probably a couple hundred people who work for her and her band. We all know how people think Bush and the war sucks. Why did she do that? She's a fucking idiot.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 03:52 AM

I should think not, seeing that his own attempts at humor are beliitleable.

What?

Liberal

01-27-2007, 03:55 AM

Embelittleable, dammit.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 03:58 AM

Thanks Lib, I was wondering... :)

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 04:02 AM

I was hoping you would weigh in on the thread so I could decide whether to give you shit.

Some years I like you and some I don't, but this year I like you, not that you give a shit.

Starving Artist

01-27-2007, 04:13 AM

And poor little Billy Gates worked and struggled and sacrificed and lived in a garage just to make his tens of billions of dollars and that moron's going to throw it all away!!! On poor folks!!! Sick black ones at that!!!! The horror!!!!!!! When he could keep his lovely dollars all to himself. :rolleyes:

You wouldn't be related to Der Trihs, would you? And WTF does all this have to do with anything, anyway? In the first place, Gates is hardly giving it all away; secondly, what he is giving away (or more rightly, what he is putting to work) is money that he planned all along to give away once his career peaked...and he's been saying he would do so for years; thirdly, the money that he is putting to work helping people and/or to fund scientific and/or medical research is money that he decided to put to work there only after careful study and consideration.

Maines, on the other hand, shot her mouth off and lost millions and she continues to shoot her mouth off and lose millions more. Her name does not belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or even page with intelligent, disciplined and responsible people like Bill Gates. Think of all the help Maines could have given "poor folks", and "sick black ones at that", had she not been so stupid, and had she been as charitable and forward-thinking and compassionate as Bill Gates.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 04:31 AM

Right on Starving Artist! But we won't get any slack because Toby is a war-monger :rolleyes:

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 05:38 AM

Figures.

She panders to a foreign audience, says/does provocative things to get attention (like the t-shirt), and lies about what she said (like the meaning of the t-shirt). What's not to love?If she was "pandering" it was to let smart and enlightened people know that she/the band knew the score, that the war was a sham and Bush was a fuckhead, but I don't think it was that calculated. Hell, millions of us knew that then, she wasn't implying anything to us that we didn't already know.

Since you're a brain-damaged right-winger you'll never watch Shut Up and Sing, but they show the "incident" and it's nothing like right-wing assholes portrayed. It was said just as a quick little "btw" aside, and quickly forgotten. It was the "Free" Republic, I believe, that started a campaign to call attention to it. Then the morons piled on. Just like you still are.

She never lied about what she said (and she never lied about what the T-shirt meant, she even says it on camera). The only problem I had with her is that she apologised to the fuckhead.

What's not to love? She's a leftie through and through!I'm sure she'd appreciate the compliment.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 06:03 AM

I've seen Shut up and sing, and that doesn't make Natalie Maines any less of an idiot. What is your fucking point? She cost her outfit millions of bucks. So she said Bush is a moron and the war sucks. Many people agree. And?

As I asked you earlier, do you go to work and scream "Bush is a moron"?
Fine and altruistic sentiments. Would you be willing to lose your job over it?

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 06:11 AM

It's fine to stand for what you believe in. But is it worth losing your ass over a point many prople already agree with? Politics aside, why take yourself down over it? WE GET IT ALREADY!

Maines did nothing to advance her cause.

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 06:27 AM

I've seen Shut up and sing, and that doesn't make Natalie Maines any less of an idiot. What is your fucking point? She cost her outfit millions of bucks. Sometimes your beliefs are worth more than money, and they all had enough money to survive on and then some. I don't think this is a matter of free speech, but I do think it's a matter of standing up for your beliefs.

So she said Bush is a moron and the war sucks. Many people agree. And?She never said any such thing. She laughed and joked that she was embarrassed that the president was from Texas. I'm not from Texas but I was (and am) embarrassed that the president is from America.

As I asked you earlier, do you go to work and scream "Bush is a moron"? Fine and altruistic sentiments. Would you be willing to lose your job over it?I'm not a famous millionaire to begin with, but if someone asked me, I'd tell them what I thought. I wouldn't scream, just like Natalie didn't scream. It was a quick joke and she laughed in an "ooops" kind of way immediately after.

Btw, I must correct myself. She didn't call the halfwit a "fuckhead," she called him a "dumbfuck" and they weren't watching television, they were reading it. It'd been months since I saw the movie and I just watched the trailer on YouTube and it's in there (very cleverly edited to cut off).

On preview, Natalie Maines did a lot to advance her "cause" (though it wasn't a "cause" until moronic assholes started making such a fuss that they were blackballed and got death threats), she let us know that they were smarter than I, for one, had given them credit for. Not that I thought they were dumb, I didn't think about them at ALL. I knew who they were but they were just a female country group to me. I'm not into country so I never learned anything more. The furor put them on my radar, and while I still am not into their music (except for "Not Ready To Make Nice" which is one of the greatest songs ever), I have the highest respect for all three of them and how they handled the whole thing. That early apology was a slight misstep, but that's ok. At the time they were sincerely befuddled by the intense reaction.

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 06:39 AM

I'm listening to Travelin Soldier right now,BTW, and tell me where Toby is all over the fucking place being a lapdog for Bush and the fucking war? What? Couldn't find anything?

Well shit. You know, You can be a patriot and not always agree with current bullshit. The flag outlasts every fucking president. Presidents are people, the flag and patriotism are ideals.

The ideals are why we have Presidents, for better or worse. This country will stumble along way after me and you and Bush or Hillary are long dead. That's how it's supposed to be.

I can wear my patriotism on my fucking sleeve any time I want. It doesn't matter what asshole is in the White House. That's the whole fucking point. That's why we don't have Kings or "Dictator for life".

I don't wake up in the morning worshipping ANY President. I am a patriot though, and am going to tell anybody who gives me shit for a flag lapel pin to fuck off, or who gives me shit because I have a flag sticker on my fucking redneck pickup truck.

I have been alive through eight Presidents, some I liked, some I didn't, but I am not going to say Fuck the US because of a particular administrations fuckups.

I don't give a flying fuck what it means to you.

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 06:43 AM

I'm listening to Travelin Soldier right now,BTW, and tell me where Toby is all over the fucking place being a lapdog for Bush and the fucking war? What? Couldn't find anything? Are you talking to the OP? Or me (since I was the last to post)?

I have been alive through eight Presidents, some I liked, some I didn't, but I am not going to say Fuck the US because of a particular administrations fuckups.

I don't give a flying fuck what it means to you.Who said Fuck the US? Natalie Maines never said that or intended to mean that.

Edit: Wait, you didn't think I was saying that when I wrote "FUSA" did you? If so, geez, go suck Starving Artist's balls. If not, never mind.

F-Fuck
U-cutesy for You (I know, I hate it too)
S-Starving
A-Artist

Klaatu

01-27-2007, 07:20 AM

My apologies. I went off on a generic rant against all this political bullshit on the board in general. I am just sick and fucking tired of this divide. Just mumbling, and sorry again.

I just hate to see Toby brought into it :dubious:

Again, I'm sorry. I am going to bed.

saoirse

01-27-2007, 08:25 AM

Right on Starving Artist! But we won't get any slack because Toby is a war-monger :rolleyes:

I had thought he was a war-monger, but now I realize he's just a sack of shit. He had misgivings about the war, and pulled all that shit on someone who opposed it? Because George Bush is smarterer than he is? And now he wants to make sure everyone knows it wasn't his idea/ He sounds like the sort of man who can be made to do little good, and much evil.

ElvisL1ves

01-27-2007, 08:47 AM

It can be very hard not to hate somebody who figured it out before you did, can't it, Toby? Even more enraging is somebody who was never fooled at all, like you were. Some instead choose to believe they were right all along, but the evidence just hasn't shown up yet - they choose to look foolish rather than hateful, even though learning and growing is also an available option.

EddyTeddyFreddy

01-27-2007, 09:26 AM

Hey, SA! Here's another so-called "artist" who spouts off opinions about politics, the war, all that stuff, heck, he even has a whole section of his website (http://www.charliedaniels.com/soapbox.htm) devoted to page after page of his arrogant blatherings. The nerve! Who does he think he is, expressing opinions about this stuff instead of just shutting up and sticking to singing?

:mad:

e-bow

01-27-2007, 11:40 AM

Amazon my ass, Toby is kicking the Dixie chicks ass these days. I like the Dixie chicks, but if they want to be a 'political" band, fine, but Toby is still filling up every place he plays at.

Why do bands have to take a fucking stance? Just play the fucking music. If Natalie wants to talk shit, she can hang out with Bono. I care as much about Natalie Maines political opinions as I do George Clooney's. I just like the music, both the Chicks and Toby.

Actually, I like the Wreckers better than the Chicks these days.
Klaatu, why do you have to take a fucking stance? I care as much about your political opinions as you do George Clooney's. If it's reasonable for you to say dumb shit on a message board, it's reasonable for Maines to say whatever she wants whenever she wants.

I'm not sure how you can say that Keith "is kicking the Dixie Chicks' ass" these days, either. Taking The Long Way, the latest DC record has gone double platinum since it's May '06 release, while Keith's latest album, White Trash With Money has only gone platinum since its April '06 release. Of course, both sales figures are ones the respective artists should be proud of. And in both cases, the sales figures are a decline on each artist's previous album, but that is a decline prevalent throughout the entire industry. There are lucky to be any major artists selling more than they used to.

One area the Dixie Chicks have lost ground in is amongst actual country music fans, but they have more than made up for that in attracting more mainstream fans. Have a look at Equipoise's post:
On preview, Natalie Maines did a lot to advance her "cause" (though it wasn't a "cause" until moronic assholes started making such a fuss that they were blackballed and got death threats), she let us know that they were smarter than I, for one, had given them credit for. Not that I thought they were dumb, I didn't think about them at ALL. I knew who they were but they were just a female country group to me. I'm not into country so I never learned anything more. The furor put them on my radar, and while I still am not into their music (except for "Not Ready To Make Nice" which is one of the greatest songs ever), I have the highest respect for all three of them and how they handled the whole thing. That early apology was a slight misstep, but that's ok. At the time they were sincerely befuddled by the intense reaction.
The Dixie Chick plan has been to court the kind of people who will have exactly this type of reaction to their music, and it has paid off for them. Country music is very popular but it is a musical ghetto; it doesn't cross over to non-country listeners much, and the internal machinations of its culture can seem confusing and ridiculous to non-fans. The Dixie Chicks wanted that crossover dollar, and while they may not have specifically planned to alienate their core audience with the anti-Bush comments, it certainly helped them along in their transition from country act to pop act. The [left wing/mainstream music listener*] idea that the poor persecuted Dixie Chicks are having their career ruined by right wing bigots is as fictional as the [right wing/country music listener*] idea that the mouthy, cowardly Dixie Chicks are facing the deserved consequences of their disrespect. (*Note that these categories are not the same thing, and much of the confusion has resulted because many people think they are.)

Toby Keith gets a lot of flak for his overly-flammatory, excessively aggressive "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue," and he deserves a lot of it too. But his detractors tend not to be country music listeners, so they often miss the fact that outside of this song, Keith isn't so much a fiery demagogue as much as a goofy, happy-go-lucky, all-American nice guy. This passage is pretty accurate:
Raise your right hand if you think Keith is a pro-military type who voted twice for George W. Bush, supported the invasion of Afghanistan and watches Fox News. Raise your left if you think he is a registered Democrat who voted twice for Bill Clinton, opposed the war in Iraq and suspects Fox News merely panders to the right to boost ratings.

Either way, you're correct -- and whichever hand went up probably says more about you than about Keith.
However, what the Keith-supporters gloss over is that Keith, just like he suspects Fox News of doing, panders to the right to boost sales. Like the Dixie Chicks, he may well sincerely hold his political beliefs, but he is not above exploiting them to put on a bit of a show for the audience he courts.

Oakminster

01-27-2007, 01:12 PM

As far as Natalie Maines goes....she's cute and she sings. I would most definitely hit that.

Clark K

01-27-2007, 01:51 PM

I've seen Shut up and sing, and that doesn't make Natalie Maines any less of an idiot. What is your fucking point?

The point is that Toby Keith is a slimy suck-up who publicly mocked Maines for (crudely) expressing a sentiment that's not too far from what he now says are his own beliefs. They both disagree with the war, but he goes out of his way to paint her as a Hussein supporter so he can score points with his redneck fan base.

If he truly felt compelled to reply to her anti-Bush comments, he could have said something like "While I share her doubts about the president's handling of the war, she was wrong to insult him."

As for his claim today that he never supported the war, how about this quote from June 22, 2005, after he had returned from USO tour of Iraq:

"Last year when I was over there, I didn't feel like it was anything we could ever win. But this year ... four out of five of the Iraqi people would wave at the choppers (that his group flew around in). Iraqis want our great boys and girls over there. They're tasting freedom for the first time."

Sounds pretty supportive to me.

Here's a link to the full story. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/22/earlyshow/series/summer_concerts/main703408.shtml

John Mace

01-27-2007, 02:03 PM

The point is that Toby Keith is a slimy suck-up who publicly mocked Maines for (crudely) expressing a sentiment that's not too far from what he now says are his own beliefs.
Can we have a quote from him that shows that? Something that he's said about Bush that comes close to what Maines said?

If he truly felt compelled to reply to her anti-Bush comments, he could have said something like "While I share her doubts about the president's handling of the war, she was wrong to insult him."
You don't know much about how entertainers behave, do you? I agree that it would have been better to do that, but the guy is a showman. It's mind blowing that people can't understand why even someone who doesn't support Bush would get upset by another person saying, in front of an overseas audience, that she's ashamed to be from the same state as the president. To me, that sounded more like a boorish attempt to pander to her audience.

As for his claim today that he never supported the war, how about this quote from June 22, 2005, after he had returned from USO tour of Iraq:

"Last year when I was over there, I didn't feel like it was anything we could ever win. But this year ... four out of five of the Iraqi people would wave at the choppers (that his group flew around in). Iraqis want our great boys and girls over there. They're tasting freedom for the first time."

Sounds pretty supportive to me.
It doesn't to me. All he said is that he thought we might be able to win. Does one have to say that we will lose in order to prove one's bona fides as a non-supporter of the war? That's called supporting the troops even if you didn't support the war initially.

Apos

01-27-2007, 07:00 PM

Someone who displays this image at his concerts (http://tinyurl.com/36olz8) has more problems than "heart-on-your-sleeve patriotism". Toby Keith is an asshat.

Yeah, I think that pretty much undercuts anything anyone points to about him not being wholeheartedly for the Iraq war. Maybe he wasn't. But if so, he sure had a hell of a lot of bad faith for anyone that dared to be against it.

Mr. Moto

01-27-2007, 10:41 PM

Let's look at a few things here. There's a lot more to this than just simple antiwar politics. What we have here is a public and personal pissing match between two singers (started by Natalie Maines, incidentally) and amplified by that weird beast known as country radio.

Some background is necessary here. Both the Dixie Chicks and Toby Keith are creatures of country radio, and owe their tremendous success to airplay on those stations. The Dixie Chicks especially fit this mold, having an act tailor made to attract the primary country listener as it is defined today, namely a woman of early middle age working in a cubicle somewhere.

Country radio doesn't equal country music, it ought to be noted. These are the same stations that totally ignored Johnny Cash when he was making the most interesting and innovative albums of his career. He didn't make music the women in the cubicle farms wanted.

I find it interesting that Willie Nelson toured with Dennis Kucinich, and Merle Haggard has been sharply critical of the war, with little negative impact to their careers. In part this is because these men have decades of goodwill and credibility to bank on, especially among "real" country fans, but the greatest part of it is because neither man is getting much airplay anymore. Therefore, listener outrage and the corporate reaction to it can't hurt them.

Now, Toby Keith is a country radio star, no doubt, but he came to stardom in a way that Willie or Merle could respect - he worked in oil fields in Oklahoma while playing honky-tonks and shopping demo tapes around. His music generally has a kind of blue-collar feel to it that does not seem at all a put-on. What I've heard of it, I've generally liked, while recognizing that it isn't novel or revolutionary in the least.

After 9/11, Keith started to play the USO circuit, and this audience heard "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue" many times. They were the only ones who did, as Keith had refused for personal reasons to record the song. Only after tremendous applause from the troops and a personal appeal from the Commandant of the Marine Corps did he relent and head to the studio.

After which, of course, Natalie Maines promptly shit all over the song. When Keith fired back, he was just as unsubtle as she was. And when she found herself in trouble with country radio audiences because of some ill-considered remarks, Keith was happy to pile on. The poster he showed at his concerts was a nasty example of this.

Not nice, not subtle. But Oklahoma oil field laborers typically aren't subtle.

So trying to glean some consistent views or opinions from this mess probably is unwise. This is a personal matter between the two.

Equipoise

01-27-2007, 11:19 PM

It's mind blowing that people can't understand why even someone who doesn't support Bush would get upset by another person saying, in front of an overseas audience, that she's ashamed to be from the same state as the president.

HEY! That gives a whole different meaning to what she said. She's not ashamed to be from Texas! All 3 are very proud Texans. She was ashamed that Bush, a halfwit dipstick who's not fit to shine the toenails of great Texans, was from Texas.

To me, that sounded more like a boorish attempt to pander to her audience. So what? Performers pander to their audiences all the time ("Hello Cleveland!"). Who gives a fuck if it was in London or Tokyo or San Antonio? Overseas my ass. We're all citizens of planet earth, and the war was wrong. She said it there in England because that day the massive anti-war marches were going on in London (and around the world). Probably half their audience had just come from marching against the war.

e-bow

01-28-2007, 12:12 AM

HEY! That gives a whole different meaning to what she said. She's not ashamed to be from Texas! All 3 are very proud Texans. She was ashamed that Bush, a halfwit dipstick who's not fit to shine the toenails of great Texans, was from Texas.
This is exactly the point. Maines got a lot of people off side because what people got from what she was saying was that she was ashamed to be Texan (and by extension, ashamed to be Southern and rural and Country and all those other things held dear by the Country music establishment). Maines didn't mean she was ashamed to be Texan, but that's what a lot of people heard.

Mr Moto's post is excellent. This is not a left vs right thing and this is not a hawk vs dove thing.

Starving Artist

01-28-2007, 02:26 AM

I don't know anyone who thought Maines was ashamed to be from Texas. She thought it would be cute to let everyone know that she's ashamed to be from the same state as GWB. I do know more than a few people who think that it's stupid for anyone to be ashamed of something they had nothing to do with. Maines had nothing to do with GWB's being from Texas, ergo she's stupid. And presumptuous. And egotistical. And silly. And foolishly prideful.

And has anyone else noted the fact that she chose not to make this statement while here in the good ol' USA, and most especially not in the state of Texas itself, but over in Europe, safe and sound in the heart of liberalism and anti-U.S. bias?

So she exposes herself not only as a stupid nitwit but a cowardly one as well. Little did she know that the folks back home would learn of her disloyalty and subject her to the very same scorn and derision she knew she would have encountered had she felt the "strength of her convictions" strongly enough to have expressed them here in the first place.

And ETF, I'm afraid you're slipping my friend. You've directed me to Charlie Daniels' website at least twice before. :p But who the hell listens to him? I wouldn't get too riled up myself if Jeannie C. Riley constructed a similar page touting liberalism. (Heh, heh...I said riled and Riley in the same sentence...get it?)

Good heavens! I'm channeling Beavis and Butthead!

Okay, at that I'm outta here...at least until perhaps sweet old granny Equipoise comes along to urge someone to suck my balls again. Poor thing. She must be living vicariously.

Hentor the Barbarian

01-28-2007, 10:09 AM

Maines is ashamed to be from Connecticut?

I know my son isn't happy that Bush is from the Nutmeg state, like him.

As for this controversy, I respect the Dixie Chicks for standing by their convictions despite the costs. It doesn't seem like Keith can clearly state the same.

As for country music, well, I can say that I bought 2 Live Crew's tape way back when in order to make a small political statement. I've thought about buying the Dixie Chicks album to do the same. Haven't done it yet, though.

elucidator

01-28-2007, 10:30 AM

....
And has anyone else noted the fact that she chose not to make this statement while here in the good ol' USA, and most especially not in the state of Texas itself, but over in Europe, safe and sound in the heart of liberalism and anti-U.S. bias?....
Why, come to think of it, no, not hardly! See, that's why we keep you around, for these special insights that nobody else would come up with.

What they oughta do, send ol' Toby on a Yurpeen Tour, maybe Dennis Miller for opening act, the "Boy Howdy, Do We Ever Love GeeDubya!" Tour. Ought to attract lots of attention. And flowers. Lots of flowers.

Hentor the Barbarian

01-28-2007, 10:33 AM

I forgot to add:

"ensuckens"?!

Wile E. Lucidator. Super Genius.

elucidator

01-28-2007, 10:40 AM

...[blush]...

FordPrefect

01-28-2007, 10:56 AM

It's a shame that someone who makes such unique and beautiful music would be such an idiot. I haven't felt this way since Chad Kroeger of Nickelback claimed that the Jews stole his cerebral cortex.
Too bad they didn't steal his whiny, nasally larynx too. Hell, they were right there, how hard could it have been?

Equipoise

01-28-2007, 11:19 AM

Too bad they didn't steal his whiny, nasally larynx too. Hell, they were right there, how hard could it have been?

Wait, I thought Argent Towers was talking about Natalie Maines. Toby Keith makes "unique and beautiful" music?

Equipoise

01-28-2007, 11:45 AM

Maines got a lot of people off side because what people got from what she was saying was that she was ashamed to be Texan (and by extension, ashamed to be Southern and rural and Country and all those other things held dear by the Country music establishment). Maines didn't mean she was ashamed to be Texan, but that's what a lot of people heard That just shows what idiots they were. Not her fault, though she paid for others' ignorance.

I don't know anyone who thought Maines was ashamed to be from Texas. She thought it would be cute to let everyone know that she's ashamed to be from the same state as GWB. No, she was ashamed that GWB was from the same state as her, and it wasn't even about her, it was about Texas. It's a completely different thing, though I know that such subleties are lost on right-wingers/redneck morons, who can only grasp things in black and white, in big simple letters.

I do know more than a few people who think that it's stupid for anyone to be ashamed of something they had nothing to do with. It's called taking a bit of responsibility. I had nothing to do with GWB being from America or being elected president but I'm deeply ashamed that he represents the USofA. There's nothing I can do about it, but I can state my opinion. I'd rather be "stupid" like her than a dumbfuck like you.

Maines had nothing to do with GWB's being from Texas, ergo she's stupid. And presumptuous. And egotistical. And silly. And foolishly prideful. She's just this girl, you know? And in any case, she's a better person than all those morons who condemned her. And still condemn her.

And has anyone else noted the fact that she chose not to make this statement while here in the good ol' USA, and most especially not in the state of Texas itself, but over in Europe, safe and sound in the heart of liberalism and anti-U.S. bias?Goddamn! You learn something new every day here at the Dope!

So she exposes herself not only as a stupid nitwit but a cowardly one as well. Little did she know that the folks back home would learn of her disloyalty and subject her to the very same scorn and derision she knew she would have encountered had she felt the "strength of her convictions" strongly enough to have expressed them here in the first place. "disloyalty"?? To a president who was getting us into a needless and costly war based on lies and bullshit? I'd say she was highly patriotic.

Okay, at that I'm outta here...at least until perhaps sweet old granny Equipoise comes along... I actually am a very sweet person in real life, but I don't see the need to be "sweet" to stupid scum-of-the-earth right-wingers and redneck morons. The time for coddling ignorance came and went for me a long time ago.

John Mace

01-28-2007, 01:32 PM

HEY! That gives a whole different meaning to what she said. She's not ashamed to be from Texas! All 3 are very proud Texans. She was ashamed that Bush, a halfwit dipstick who's not fit to shine the toenails of great Texans, was from Texas.
Yes, and the only reason she's ashamed that he is from Texas is that she is too. Lubbock, to be precise. Would she have said that she's ashamed he's from Texas if she was from Florida? Of course not.

So what? Performers pander to their audiences all the time ("Hello Cleveland!").
Yes, that's exactly my point. Performers pander to their audiences all the time, and it looked like that's exactly what she was doing.

Mr. Moto

01-28-2007, 01:41 PM

Let's clarify a couple of other things as well.

First of all, Natalie Maines shouldn't be criticizing other singers for being what is wrong with country music today, when she is a big throbbing symptom of that disease. And it has nothing to do with politics, mind, just that the Dixie Chicks' popularity is among those women cubicle dwellers I mentioned above, and isn't broadly shared among many traditional, outlaw, and alt-country fans.

Secondly, I typically buy the work of musicians while ignoring their political views. In my country catalog I have a lot of Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard and Loretta Lynn - artists not typically associated with the political right. I don't have a lot of Lee Greenwood (and only because that song came along in some compilations) and my Charlie Daniels tends toward his older work.

Buy music with politics in mind, and you'll soon wind up with a lot of unlistenable dreck. Like, for instance, 2 Live Crew. ;)

Starving Artist

01-28-2007, 02:15 PM

No, she was ashamed that GWB was from the same state as her, and it wasn't even about her, it was about Texas. Aherm...that was my, you know...point?

It's called taking a bit of responsibility. I had nothing to do with GWB being from America or being elected president but I'm deeply ashamed that he represents the USofA. Okay then, it's also stupid to take responsibility for something you had no part in creating. And presumptuous, as you're inserting yourself into the issue when you had nothing to do with creating it in the first place. And egotistical and phony, as it gives you an excuse to spout your opinions under the guise of this noble so-called sense of responsibility.

I actually am a very sweet person in real life...I guess the question then becomes: which is the real persona? I suspect you simply don't have the gumption to behave in real life (and I will acknowledge that you are perhaps living in a fantasy world here) the way you behave here. I doubt that people who are not naturally hotheaded, foul-mouthed uber-bitches in real life would find it so easy to morph into one once a keyboard has materialized in front of them.

But other than that, cheers, dearie. ;)

Liberal

01-28-2007, 02:21 PM

I forgot to add:

"ensuckens"?!

Wile E. Lucidator. Super Genius.Yes. Right up there somewhere between Jonas Salk and Albert Einstein. But I think it should be emsuckens.

elucidator

01-28-2007, 03:07 PM

...Yes, that's exactly my point. Performers pander to their audiences all the time, and it looked like that's exactly what she was doing.
If that was all it was about, she could have said any number of things that entailed no risk at all. She chose otherwise. I take her at her word, you peer into her soul and take her inventory.

And Moto, you're over-intellecting, slicing country into subset and genres. Country is twang, if it twangs, its country, if it don't, it ain't. GeeDub isn't a Texan, no matter how much brush he clears, no matter how many times his script writers substitute "folks" for "people". He doesn't scrape his boots on the steps when he comes into the house, he has people for that. He's like a country band without a pedal steel. Feh, as they say in Lubbock.

As for Charlie, I think he's suffering from 9/11 Hysteria, like Dennis Miller. Its a terrible thing what has happened to these people minds, and I hope fondly for their recovery. Need I point out what political party shamelessly exploited said hysteria? I thought not, bright lad that you are.

Charlie wrote Long Haired Country Boy, earned him a lot of slack from me, but he's pretty much pissed it all away. Oh, almost forgot....Johnny Cash was a punk-ass poseur. When Willie was playing at my uncle's roadhouse, he was a second rater and nobody paid him any mind.