Is it time for a new US national anthem?

[Sonia Montdore]

The Superbowl is on tv and I'm sitting here listening to poor Billy Joel struggling to sing The Star Spangled Banner. He's trying manfully, bless him, but he's losing the struggle. Let's face it, Americans, our national anthem is un-sing-able. It's time to change it. What do you think the new one should be?

God Bless America is out of the running. It's not in the public domain yet. Irving Berlin's heirs hold the copyright, with the royalties going to the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America. Anyway, the agnostics and atheists would protest.

Then there's America the Beautful. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can't find) that points out that the repetition of the word "for" is silly and the meaning unclear. "For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves" For, for for, for ... What's up with that?

Then there's Woody Guthrie's This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land but I think it, too, is still under copyright.

What's left?

[Mirror Image egamI rorriM]

I vote for America the Beautiful. It's not about fighting and it's easy to sing.

[Muffin]

Given the way so many singers roll all over the chromatic map of the USA anthem on long notes, it pretty much becomes a new tune every time it is sung.

[Rodgers01]

Then there's America the Beautful. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can't find) that points out that the repetition of the word "for" is silly and the meaning unclear. "For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves" For, for for, for ... What's up with that?
I don't think the lyrics are lacking at all. I don't quite understand the "for" construction, but I'll let it slide under poetic license. Besides that, the words are great! And how about everybody's favorite verse:

America! America! God mend thine ev'ry flaw;
Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!

That modicum of humility is welcome.

On the downside, it does have numerous references to God, which might be problematic.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

On a more modern note, how about New World Man?

[TheLoadedDog]

This debate is paralleled in Australia, and I have strong feelings on it. Advance Australia Fair is a rather turgid, dull anthem that belongs in high schools and sporting events. On the other hand, Waltzing Matilda is the one that will bring a tear if I'm overseas and I hear it. But does that mean Waltzing Matilda should be our anthem? Hell NO! The national anthem is SUPPOSED to be dull.

America the Beautiful is really, really lovely too. It's your Waltzing Matilda. The American people own it, so don't sell it to The Man. Don't let the government dilute it with dull officialdom.

[matt_mcl]

It's "O beautiful for spacious skies." It's saying that America is beautiful because it has spacious skies, etc.

It shouldn't take a Canadian to tell you this. :p

[rowrrbazzle]

I say stick with the Star-Spangled Banner. For a better appreciation of it, read Asimov's article http://www.purewatergazette.net/asimov.htm. And he was a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.

And how about everybody's favorite verse:

America! America! God mend thine ev'ry flaw;
Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!

That modicum of humility is welcome.The rest of the song is an idealized vision of what American can become. To me, that last line isn't humble, but it's like a schoolmarm wagging her finger at unruly students. So it's my least favorite part of the song. It sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Not that self-control is bad. It's good, of course. But I can't recall it being recommended for individuals recently.

[Rodgers01]

It's "O beautiful for spacious skies." It's saying that America is beautiful because it has spacious skies, etc.

It shouldn't take a Canadian to tell you this. :p
I know what it means, and I know it's "O" (didn't notice the typo in the OP), I just don't understand the logic of the phrasing. If I saw a beautiful woman, I wouldn't comment on her beauty by saying "O beautiful, for lucious lips, for nice figure, for pretty face...etc." But I can accept that it's an archaic and/or poetic sentence structure.

The rest of the song is an idealized vision of what American can become. To me, that last line isn't humble, but it's like a schoolmarm wagging her finger at unruly students. So it's my least favorite part of the song. It sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.I don't get that sense at all, but YMMV.

[Captain Carrot]

Then there's Woody Guthrie's This Land is Your Land, This Land is My Land but I think it, too, is still under copyright.
Nope:"This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do."
Not even close to copyrighted.

[RickJay]

The Superbowl is on tv and I'm sitting here listening to poor Billy Joel struggling to sing The Star Spangled Banner. He's trying manfully, bless him, but he's losing the struggle. Let's face it, Americans, our national anthem is un-sing-able. It's time to change it. What do you think the new one should be?
Billy Joel is how old? 137? If you want to hear the anthem sung right maybe they shouldn't have hauled Grandpa out of the nursing home to sing it. By now, Billy Joel would have problems remembering which of his pills he's supposed to take in the morning.

I can sing "The Star Spangled Banner" and I'm not even American. Honestly, it's not hard to sing if you can sing at all.

[Captain Carrot]

Billy Joel is 57, as a casual glance at Wikipedia reveals.

[RealityChuck]

Nope:


"This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do."

Not even close to copyrighted.Woody may have said that, but according to the U.S. Copyright Office, the work is under copyright:
1. Registration Number: RE-201-665
Title: This land is your land. Words and music: Woody Guthrie [i.e. Woodrow
Wilson Guthrie]
Claimant: Arlo Guthrie, Joady Guthrie and Nora Rontante (C)
Effective Registration Date: 23Jan84
Original Registration Date: 30Mar56;
Original Registration Number: EU432559.
Original Class: E Even your quote indicates that Guthrie copyrighted the work; he just was willing to allow others to sing it (not record it). At the time he was quoted, ASCAP didn't cover folk music, so he wasn't going to get any payment for performances, anyway.

[Captain Carrot]

Yeah, he copyrighted it in the '30s, for 28 years, so the copyright expired a long time ago.

[Rodgers01]

I can sing "The Star Spangled Banner" and I'm not even American. Honestly, it's not hard to sing if you can sing at all.
It's got an octave and a fifth range -- not tough for anyone you'd want to invite to sing before a sporting event, but tough enough for your average non-singer. In other words, it's not something large masses of regular people can easily sing, which is a bad sign for a national anthem.

[Kat]

Well, there's always America (aka My Country Tis of Thee). According to Wikipedia, it was written in 1831, so it's gotta be out of copyright.

[Czarcasm]

Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society.
And another vote for My Country Tis Of Thee.

[jayjay]

Well, there's always America (aka My Country Tis of Thee). According to Wikipedia, it was written in 1831, so it's gotta be out of copyright.

The problem with that would be that when the orchestra begins to play it at the Olympics, the Americans and British would both stand...

[friedo]

The problem with that would be that when the orchestra begins to play it at the Olympics, the Americans and British would both stand...

We just need to convince the Brits to change their anthem to the Benny Hill theme.

[Campion]

It can't be America the Beautiful; that would ruin The Westing Game.

I kind of like the fact that only screech owls can handle The Star Spangled Banner. Its imagery is vaguely bellicose, and that appeals to me. I don't mind having an anthem that no one can really sing well, because when someone does manage it, I get chills. In comparison, My Country 'Tis of Thee is a schoolchild's verse. No emotion.

[Kat]

We just need to convince the Brits to change their anthem to the Benny Hill theme.
I thought it already was.

[amarinth]

Then there's America the Beautful. Nice tune, but the lyrics are lacking. There was a recent thread here (which I can't find) that points out that the repetition of the word "for" is silly and the meaning unclear. "For beautiful, for spacious skies, for amber waves" For, for for, for ... What's up with that?It's "O beautiful for spacious skies,"
In other words - it's talking about the ways the country is beautiful. Skies, pretty. Grain, pretty. Mountains, pretty. Plain, pretty. Whole country, just beautiful.

My favorite is the final verse - dreaming about seeing "thine alabaster cities gleam, undimmed by human tears." It makes me cry.

[wolf_meister]

Since this is the Straight Dope, you must be familiar with the origins of the melody of the "Star Spangled Banner" right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith

Yep, originally a drinking song and written by a British citizen. Not exactly the 150% American tune everyone seems to think it is.

Also, I think Francis Scott Key's lyrics are horrendous in trying to match up to the tune. A lot of words have to be squeezed or stretched to make it fit the melody.

[mobo85]

Re: copyright status of This Land is Your Land

In 2004, the publisher of said song sued JibJab Media over an online cartoon satirizing the election to the tune of the song. The Electronic Freedom Foundation discovered (http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2004_08.php) a 1945 self-published songbook by Woody Guthrie which contained the song. Since Guthrie failed to renew the copyright on this songbook in 1973*, the song is in the public domain. (However, Guthrie eventually modified the lyrics, so that version is probably still copyrighted. The original 1945 version appears in a PDF file which is linked to in the link above).

*Until 1976, copyrights lasted for 28 years, followed by an optional additional 28 years at the choice of the copyright holder. Copyrights now last for 70 years after the death of the original author (for works published by an individual), or 95 years from date of first publication (for works for hire).

[mobo85]

As for the anthem, I have no qualms with the current one, but if it were to be changed, I would suggest The Stars and Stripes Forever. (Yes, it has lyrics- Sousa wrote them himself). But not the verse part, just the chorus. The verse is a little bit America uber alles, claiming the American flag is the best ever for the best country ever, but the chorus describes the flag as a symbol of American pride:

Hurrah for the flag of the free!
May she wave as our standard forever.
The gem of the land and the sea,
The banner of the right.
Let despots remember the day
That their fathers, with mighty endeavor,
Proclaimed as they marched to the fray
That by their right and by their might it waves forever!

[FriarTed]

Since this is the Straight Dope, you must be familiar with the origins of the melody of the "Star Spangled Banner" right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stafford_Smith

Yep, originally a drinking song and written by a British citizen. Not exactly the 150% American tune everyone seems to think it is.

Also, I think Francis Scott Key's lyrics are horrendous in trying to match up to the tune. A lot of words have to be squeezed or stretched to make it fit the melody.

While not everyone could relate precisely what British drinking song supplied the tune for "The Star-Spangled Banner", I think it's common knowledge by now that the tune did indeed come from an one.

I like the melody. I like the lyrics. It's a perfectly cromulent anthem. Only pacifists & Commies want to change it. So there! :p

Otherwise, I'd go for "America the Beautiful" BECAUSE of all the offensive God-references on one hand AND the partnership choice of the lady who authored it on the other.

[Lars Aruns]

Why not go with Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory? :) Or maybe write a completely new one instead? In this case, I hope they'll follow Terry Pratchett's advice and include a second verse that goes:

Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!
Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!
Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!
Ner ner ner ner ner ner ner ner!

[Millit the Frail]

On a more modern note, how about New World Man?

But....they're Canadian!!

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

New world Man says a lot about Americans.

He's got to make his own mistakes
And learn to mend the mess he makes
He's old enough to know what's right
But young enough not to choose it
He's noble enough to win the world
But weak enough to lose it -


http://lyricwiki.org/Rush:New_World_Man

[Raguleader]

I dunno, if we HAVE to change it, I vote for either "Yellow Rose of Texas" or "Bohemian Rhapsody"

I mean, comon, it'd be totally worth it to have 80,000 people in a stadium all start headbanging in unison before every football game. :D

[DurbBook]

Would it bother the singing public when they found out that the lyrics to "America the Beautiful" were written by Katharine Lee Bates, a (gasp!) lesbian?

[DurbBook]

Sorry about repeating info from FriarTed's post. I was just too excited about the topic. :smack:

[Musicat]

And another vote for My Country Tis Of Thee.You mean the one that sounds a lot like God Save The Queen (http://memory.loc.gov/cocoon/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200000012/default.html), and the one whose tune is (or was) the national anthem of 6 other countries? Good choice.

[Captain Amazing]

But not the verse part, just the chorus. The verse is a little bit America uber alles, claiming the American flag is the best ever for the best country ever, but the chorus describes the flag as a symbol of American pride:

Yeah, but if you can't be belicose and jingoistic in your anthem, when can you be? But how about "Hail, Columbia"?

Hail Columbia, happy land!
Hail, ye heroes, heav'n-born band,
Who fought and bled in freedom's cause,
Who fought and bled in freedom's cause,
And when the storm of war was gone
Enjoy'd the peace your valor won.
Let independence be our boast,
Ever mindful what it cost;
Ever grateful for the prize,
Let its altar reach the skies.

[Ponder Stibbons]

Re: OP. No.

In addition to the very good reasons pointed out by the late Isaac Asimov, the tune is fantastic and lifting and memorable. It can be played stirringly by marching bands, orchestras, and even rock musicians. What makes it hard to sing for some gives it a certain drama when played instrumentally.

You mean the one that sounds a lot like God Save The Queen (http://memory.loc.gov/cocoon/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200000012/default.html), and the one whose tune is (or was) the national anthem of 6 other countries? Good choice.Of all the possible bad choices for a replacement, using anything set to the tune of "God Save the Queen" is the worst. IOW, I completely agree with Musicat.

[Neidhart]

I'm partial to "The Maine Stein Song." If played by a marching band, it would really sound like a national anthem. Easy to sing, too! All it needs are some new lyrics.

[Shoeless]

But....they're Canadian!!
Not only that, but just imagine a whole stadium full of people trying to hit those Geddy Lee high notes! :eek:

[RandMcnally]

We should replace it with something that sounds like Kazakhstan's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mrovBMhAlo)

[Max Torque]

My vote is, stick with the Star-Spangled Banner.

Sorry, but purple mountains fruiting all over the plains just doesn't stir the soul the way that "the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there" does.

Once long ago, before the days when we became accustomed to complaining about our government from a position of complete safety, there was a war. A real war, right here. Brave men stood fast. A line was held. And because of that, a star-spangled banner continues to wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

That deserves to be remembered.

[Happy Lendervedder]

I've written a nominee. Sung to the tune of "Shave and a Haircut:"


Pres-i-dent has ve-to
Pow-er

Short, easy to sing, and a civics lesson.

Plus almost anyone could write new verses.

[amarinth]

Once long ago, before the days when we became accustomed to complaining about our government from a position of complete safety, there was a war. A real war, right here. Brave men stood fast. A line was held. And because of that, a star-spangled banner continues to wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


Kind of like:
"O beautiful, for heroes proved in liberating strife
who more than self, their country loved"

[rowrrbazzle]

One problem with The Star-Spangled Banner is it's usually performed in a key that's too high. It should be B flat or lower. The basses and altos can carry the low notes at the beginning, then more people can sing the high notes in the middle and the end. And it should be sung by everyone. If there's a soloist, he/she should sing it straight, leading the crowd.

And the only verse of the SSB that's almost always sung is really a question, not a declaration: is the flag still there? That's coincidental, really, but it has meaning, and I think it's unique.

If we did switch, I'm for America the Beautiful.My favorite is the final verse - dreaming about seeing "thine alabaster cities gleam, undimmed by human tears." It makes me cry.Me, too.

New world Man says a lot about Americans.So would you agree with this?We would not say anything if the U.S.A. were aware of its intellectual and moral defects and was trying to grow up. But it is too much when it behaves in an impudent manner toward a part of the earth with a few thousands years of glorious history behind it, attempting to teach it moral and intellectual lessons, whether out of innocence or a complete lack of genuine culture and learning. We can forgive the mistakes of youth, but this degree of arrogance gets on one's nerves.

[Duckster]

A good carpenter never blames his tools for a poor job.

[mobo85]

We should replace it with something that sounds like Kazakhstan's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mrovBMhAlo)

This reminds me of the East German anthem from Top Secret!, which I often sing a totally incorrect version of:

Hail, Hail East Germany
Land of wine and bread
If the barbed wire on the Wall doesn't kill you
The armed guards probably will

[wolf_meister]

FriarTed
That's why I qualified my remarks with 'you must be familiar...etc'.

Still, I thought the uninitiated should be informed of the precise drinking song and its author. It was a story that had to be told. :D

[Sonia Montdore]

This reminds me of the East German anthem from Top Secret!, which I often sing a totally incorrect version of:

Hail, Hail East Germany
Land of wine and bread
If the barbed wire on the Wall doesn't kill you
The armed guards probably will

Ah, what sweet memories that brings back of my junior year abroad at the University of Blaupunkt.

[kevja]

No way. It's an awkward song to sing, but the closing kicks, and people love it.

No other song suggested to replace "The Star Spangled Banner" can touch it.

"the land of the free. and the home of the brave"

[wolf_meister]

Since so many folks have referenced the East German National Anthem from the movie Top Secret - here are the lyrics:
Hail, hail East Germany
Land of fruit and grape
Land where you'll regret
If you try to escape
No matter if you tunnel under or take a running jump at the wall
Forget it, the guards will kill you, if the electrified fence doesn't first.

Mods please delete this post if you think that quoting the "entire" anthem (yes all 6 lines) is a copyright infringement.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

rowrrbazzle---que?

[Raguleader]

My vote is, stick with the Star-Spangled Banner.

Sorry, but purple mountains fruiting all over the plains just doesn't stir the soul the way that "the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there" does.

Once long ago, before the days when we became accustomed to complaining about our government from a position of complete safety, there was a war. A real war, right here. Brave men stood fast. A line was held. And because of that, a star-spangled banner continues to wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

That deserves to be remembered.

Looking at your location, I feel like enough of a smartass to point out that the closest such war to where you're standing was the Texan War of Independence. Not quite related to the National Anthem, but you do make a good point.

I just want to point out that, if we switch to Bohemian Rhapsody, C-Span will become far more entertaining when we get to watch Congress headbang.

[Terrifel]

Pansies. "America the Beautiful?" "God Bless America?" Truly, it is to vomit.

Oh, merciful heavens, the national anthem is too hard to sing! It's toooo haaarrrd!!! Why do we have to sing such a hard song? Couldn't we have an easier national anthem? A song that doesn't challenge anyone's skills, that's friendly and twinkly and fluffy and has only nice things to say about how pretty our country is and how much God loves us? By all means, let's have a national anthem that's just as warm and fuzzy as a Hallmark card! Then we can make the stanzas into bumper stickers to show how patriotic we all are!

That's just sad. "The Star-Spangled Banner" is the best national anthem ever, and I'll tell you why.

First: it was originally a drinking song. This has been mentioned before, but bears emphasis, because evidently some people do not realize its significance. "The Star-Spangled Banner" is set to music that was intended to be sung while drunk. 'Oh, it's sooo difficult to sing properly...' Bullshit! It's a drinking song; it's supposed to be fun to sing, not an ordeal! Unreasonably difficult tunes do not become popular drinking songs in the first place. If you can't make it sound good, then maybe you aren't drunk enough yet.

Second: It has rockets in it. Do any of these other songs mention rockets? What the hell is the matter with you, that you can't see how important rockets are to a national anthem? This point can not be overstated.

Third: It's weird. Maybe most of us are too familiar with the song to appreciate just how awesomely weird it really is, but think about it for a second. If most people were going to sit down and write a national anthem, what would they include? Well, they'd probably write a bunch of nice things about how utterly wonderful their country is, and they wouldn't be very subtle about it. America, the Beautiful! God Bless America! Columbia, Gem of the Ocean! Hail Columbia, happy land!

"The Star-Spangled Banner" doesn't do that. This song doesn't start out with boasts and self-congratulation, it asks fearful questions. Oh say, can you see? Does that banner still wave? We don't know. Right now it's dark; there are bombs and rockets exploding. Will the star-spangled banner still be flying come morning? There's no righteous certitude, no bold assurance of triumph; counterintuitively, this national anthem is rife with tension and anxiety about the future.

Sure, the song goes on to tell how the loathsome British are driven back in the end; but nobody cares about that part, and rightly so. It's the first stanza that's the keeper-- the part that asks you to preserve hope even in the face of uncertainty and peril.

Admittedly, the song probably does contribute to American exhibitions of unseemly flag-worship, even to the point of trying to protect the thing with constitutional amendments and other such nonsense, which we could certainly do without. However, even with that in mind, none of those other songs-- smug, pious, self-aggrandizing and saccharine--can hold a candle to it.

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is simply and completely the greatest, darkest, rousingest, drinkingest, rampart-watchingest, rocket-glaringest, baseball-game-startingest national anthem of any country ever.



But if we have to switch anyway, I vote for "Roll with the Changes" by REO Speedwagon.

[Tracy Lord]

If it were to be changed, I would vote for "America! Fuck Yeah!" from Team America: World Police/ (This is a lie; I would go for "America the Beautiful," with the stipulation that the other three verses be sung as well. "Confirm thy soul in self-control, thy liberty in law" kicks ass, as does "who more than self their country loved, and mercy more than life." "Undimmed by human tears" makes me cry, too.)

BUT THE POINT IS: "America! Fuck Yeah!" would be a fantastic anthem if only for the Olympics medal ceremony if ones of ours wins. "It's the dream that we all share, it's the hope for tomorrow! FUCK YEAH!"

[DurbBook]

No way. It's an awkward song to sing, but the closing kicks, and people love it.

No other song suggested to replace "The Star Spangled Banner" can touch it.

"the land of the free. and the home of the brave"

New Mexico is the land of the flea and home of the plague.

[RikWriter]

I am in favor of keeping The Star Spangled Banner. If it's too hard to sing, get a better singer.
If we had to change, I would vote for America the Beautiful. Powerful lyrics in the latter verses.

[StuffLikeThatThere]

Nope:


"This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do."


Not even close to copyrighted.

That's nice of him, but he stole the tune anyway. Wiki says: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_land_is_your_land)

Guthrie lifted the melody of "This Land Is Your Land" essentially note-for-note from "When the World's on Fire", a Baptist hymn recorded by country legends the Carter Family ten years earlier.

This is backed up by anyone who's ever sung or heard the song, which is published in various hymnbooks (my dad used to collect them). I don't know from the Carter Family, but "When the World's On Fire" is a stompin' good old gospel tune, and it's fun to sing. Unfortunately, whenever you sing it, someone says, "Hey! That's the tune from This Land!" and you're forced to defend its honor. Harumph.

And so I'm not posting a complete hijack, I like the Star Spangled Banner and want to keep it. I do wish people would just sing it, and not futz with it. It's a lovely song, and it takes a semblance of talent to sing. Must you add vocal curlicues and wavers and crap? Just sing the bloody thing! Some of us like to sing along, and when you add all that garbage, you make it nigh unto impossible.

My absolute favorite (quasi-)patriotic song would never be allowed as a national anthem because it's all about God: The Battle Hymn of the Republic. Preferably all six verses. There are a few snippets of music that always make me bawl, and the verse that starts "In the beauty of the lilies" is one of those. *sniff* And doesn't the chorus just make you want to march in step, preferably right over the enemy? I love that song.