Bush-Gore Debate 1 : Some non-policy related observations

[Milossarian]

* Did Gore put his make-up on with a mason's trowel?

* Bush should fire whoever purchased his ineffective nasal spray before the debate. His sniffling almost drove me insane.

* The ass-kissing toward senior citizens by both candidates was just maddening. The impression you got from their pandering was A. there is this teeming mass of seniors out there; B. They don't have a clue about anything, and can be misled as easily as a kitten with a laser-pointer; and C. They all vote. By the end of it, I was ready to say, "Screw 'em all! And their Medicare! And their prescription drugs!"

* Gore was good at doing that "fake-writing" thing while Bush was giving his answers. It's an effective ploy that lawyers often teach their clients in courtrooms. You saw O.J. doing it quite a bit during his trial. It provides detachment during awkward moments when you are under attack, without making you look aloof. It also keeps you from betraying any emotions. Bush frequently looked at Gore during his answer-giving, and it sometimes made him look pissy.

* Bush was definitely the crankier of the two, but I haven't decided whether I think it's a flaw, or if I kind of like it in a refreshing, non-politically correct, Harry Truman kind of way.

* And let me just say, in a spirit of bi-partisanship, that if I heard the terms "richest 1 percent," "put it in a lockbox" or "fuzzy math" one more time, I would have given Ralph Nader permission to run over both candidates repeatedly with a late-'70s model Pinto.

[Max Torque]

My own non-policy observation: if Cecil was right about the taller candidate winning (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_308.html), Gore is a lock. The "longer name" hypothesis doesn't apply this time around.

[Saint Zero]

Geez... I thought this was supposed to be a debate, not a lovefest. I thought of a dozen snappy comebacks while watching the few minutes I did, and I'm not the quickest of wits.

[dropzone]

Well, it sure wasn't Lincoln vs Douglas.

I miss Bill already, although he loves repetition, too.

[Monster104]

It was also really annoying how Gore kept stupidly grinning and chuckling all the time. It makes me think he's stoned or drunk or something.

[pepperlandgirl]

Bush is mean, and underhanded. He really is. He had a lot of not-so-subtle digs, and I was, frankly, amazed at his audacity. Mean is good. Underhanded is fine. But not when a person is mean AND underhanded. I just don't trust that man.

[Sequent]

Well, from a bleeding-heart liberal who feels nauseous when I think of Bush in the White House, I have to say I think he "won." Maybe only by a field goal, but I still think he won: he was more at ease, more plain-spoken, less...I hate to say it...wooden. And he didn't bumble with the language at all, which is, to tell you the truth, one of the main reasons I was watching. There were some points where he slowed down and enunciated each word one syllable at a time, like he'd been coached or something. He attacked in a very sly but not over-the-top way, and his rebuttals were plain and effective. Not that Gore was bad; just a bunch of missed opportunities. Just no real wit from either one, really.

Yeah, the "fuzzy math" thing was annoying, especially the way he used it like he was trying to manufacture a one-liner like Reagan's "there you go again." And Gore never really addressed it. I would have said: "Governor Bush, I'll have my staff send you a calculator, because it's you that's fuzzy, not the math."

Bush did seem a little cranky, but I thought Gore was sometimes arrogant. I think ignoring the fundraiser accusation in the end was a mistake; he should have said something quick and dirty. And he should have slammed Bush for all the "you've had seven years" crap, too.

Bush blinks too much, which, if I remember phsychology correctly, is the body language equivalent of "I'm full of crap." And I agree that staring at Gore during Gore's answers was a little impish. But I still think Bush's answers were better delivered and that he edged Gore out (of course, we're talking about what really counts in pres. debates: style and not substance). But all in all, very forgettable. Oh well. May the tallest, I mean, uh, best man win.

[Giraffe]

I thought Bush came across really dumb. (Of course, I think Bush is really dumb.) I thought Gore came across as smart, but wooden. (Again, pretty much true to my impressions.) Every aspect of Gore's end of things seemed carefully calculated, whereas most everything Bush's preparation seemed designed to make him seem less dumb.

I'm still voting for Nader.

[Giraffe]

Shit. Of course I'd put a typo in a sentence calling someone else dumb.

"Stupid poetic justice!"
-- Homer Simpson

[Stoid]

i was upset at Gore...he seemed a little hysterical and pushy, while Bush did come across as being at ease and relaxed. I know what Gore was trying to do, and that's push Bush's buttons, which he pretty much failed to do.

As far as policies...well, Gore on virtually everything.

Did anyone else pick up on how Bush slithered away on the abortion thing? He finally descended into actual mumbling.

please god...let Gore win.

[yosemite]

I wanted to swat Gore in the head for all the huffing and puffing and sighing and other "sounds" he made when Bush was talking. It was rather juvenile. Bush was irritating too, with his sniffing, but at least he didn't make annoying sighing sounds when Gore spoke.

I thought Gore was too "mannered", and almost condescending. About that the little old lady that Gore mentioned in the one - the one that collected cans and traveled with her poodle in a Winnebago. I heard on TV tonight that she is actually not at all destitute, has a well-to-do son who can look after her, and collects cans for a hobby. If that is all true, then Gore really pulled a fast one in bringing her up.

[SPOOFE]

Personally? I think both of 'em were scared shitless, and did a pretty good job of covering it up.

Think about it... this was "The Big One", everyone's been talking about this being delayed and how it'll be the defining moment... a single screw up, even something as innocent as a "Subliminable" or a "I invented the Internet" would have been lambasted on every single Jay Leno monologue, joke article, political commentary, newspaper byline, and coffee shop in the country from now 'til election day.

The fact that neither provided such ammunition (it seems that the late-night monologues will go with the default joke, that is, "Man, them guys is boring", for the next month) just pays tribute to the practice these guys had.

[vanilla]

Oh boy! I thought I was the only one who noticed the ton of make-up on Gore.
The "fuzzy math" thing just made me keep picturing those huge fuzzy dice.
I also thought Gore was too condescending, sighing and chuckling.
I also thought Bush won at the very end when he mentioned the fundraising, and Gore couldn't even defend himself on it.

though I DID wonder who "Shirley" was, who Bush kept mentioning....
surely

[wring]

I, personally, was highly disappointed with both.

on a small note, yea, the makeup artist for Gore needs a smaller trowel.

But. The audible sighing by Gore was awful.

Bush should fire his speech writers. It appeared to me that they wanted to have the 10 second sound bite "bullet" and decided that it would either be "why haven't you done anything about it in 7 years" (apparently too long of a sound bite) or "that fuzzy math"

we'd like better.

and, I reiterate my basic position: I'm damn near begging for feminine product ads back on tv, just ANYTHING other than political ads.

[Jman]

Whenever Bush said "fuzzy math," I laughed. He never refuted the numbers, just said they were "fuzzy." I think that's because he never really KNEW the numbers in his plan. Either that, or he actually doesn't grasp the whole "math" concept, and can't add, subtract, multiply, and divide. Maybe both. Bush came across as a "nicer" guy, but I think that's just his voice...it's softer. I think that Gore had a real grasp on the issues, and what he wants to do as president. Bush seemed to simply want to make the people think he's a nice guy and should get in just 'cause.

Jman

[Zumba The Cat]

I would agree that Gore's huffing and sighing awful. To me it was very juvenile and rude. I would love to see Al Gore at a middle east peace summit huffing and sighing whenever someone else tried to make their point. One time I swear I saw him roll his eyes.

I also agree that Gore's makeup was a bit much. Blend the blush in Al!

I thought that Gore was very demanding. He always had to get in the last word and often ran over time. I would be interested in seeing a break down of who spent the most minutes talking. I will be willing to be it wasn't even.

Finally, did anyone else hear Al Gore use the term "anti-choice" when discussing abortion? Anyone who has spent much time around Great Debates knows those are fighting words. I cringed when I heard him say it just because of some of the discussions I have read there.

[obfusciatrist]

I didn't see the debate (go A's!) but I can tell you that the sighing thing is something Al Gore has done during debates for quite a while.

I know he did it during the primaries and, if I recall correctly, started doing it during his Larry King debate with Ross Perot back in '93 or so.

[vix]

I guess most people didn't get the impression that Bush was about to cry, he looked so scared. I haven't seen him in a debate before (oh, right, he hasn't been in a debate before), but I thought he presented very poorly. He never seemed to have any facts at his fingertips. Plus, he really screwed up the question toward the end about how he'd respond in a crisis situation. Ironic, no? Gore seemed to be his usual smug self, but he at least seemed like he had a firm grip on the issues. I'd say he was the winner.

[Palandine]

I didn't watch the debate. Wanted to check out "Dark Angel."

It's not that I don't care, it's just very very clear to anyone who's seen Bush and Gore what their core issues are. As I heard on a radio show afterward, apparently Jim Lehrer often could find no differences at all between them.

Now, if Browne, Buchanan, Nader, and Phillips had been allowed to take part, _that_ would have been a debate. But a debate between only two of the candidates? Somehow I feel like I'm being cheated.

Palandine, who's still voting for Browne

[Skümmet]

Anyone know if there's somewhere on the net you can follow the debate live when they go at it again next week?

[Jack Batty]

For these and other opinions, please tune to this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=40886) over in The Pit.

Similar thread, just has the F-word in the title.

[PatrickM]

The trouble with the debates is that each candidate says essentially the same thing, over and over, to wit: "I am one-hundred percent correct about everything and my opponent, who, by the way, worships the devil when he is not drowning puppies, is one-hundred percent wrong about everything."

Give me Ralph Nader. Or the baseball playoffs.

[Omniscient]

Damn you vanilla, you stole my "....and please stop calling me Shirley." line.

I tuned in desperately hoping for some real fuck ups, there were none. Gore trampled Bush on the issues and basically knew what he was talking about. Bush sounded like me in college after blowing off a speech and getting drunk, trying to wing it. Bush just couldn't seem to concentrate for 90 minutes, and seemed to think if he talked really slow and used really small words he could stretch his 15 minutes of material.

Bush probably accidentally helped himself by being so unprepared because Gore realized he had no one to debate against, and nothing to refute so he got cocky. That hurt him.

Did anyone else think the two called each other before the debate and coordinated wardrobes?

[Ukulele Ike]

Hee hee...I was about to say...Whose suit and tie did everyone like better?

[egkelly]

Why doesn't Bush nail Gore on all those stupid stories that his spin doctors have been making up? Like the old lady in Iowa who has to pick up bottles and cans to pay for her prescription drugs (then drives her Winnebago camper to Boston). Or the one about Gore's mother in law-who has to buy a drug that costs 3X the cost of the canine equivilent,.
This is low grade moron stuff-I'm insulted that Gore thinks we are dumb enough to fall for this crap!

[zut]

Originally posted by egkelly
Why doesn't Bush nail Gore on all those stupid stories that his spin doctors have been making up?

Probably for the same reason that Gore didn't nail Bush on his stupid "I found one family in America that benefits more from my tax cut plan than yours" schtick.

Personally, any time I hear one of those "let me tell you about Citizen X" stories, it just makes me think that, if politicians are resorting to special cases to ilustrate the benefits of their plan, then the benefits for the rest of us are questionable.

[tradesilicon]

Al Gore doing what Al Gore does.
About that the little old lady that Gore mentioned in the one - the one that collected cans and traveled with her poodle in a Winnebago. I heard on TV tonight that she is actually not at all destitute, has a well-to-do son who can look after her, and collects cans for a hobby. If that is all true, then Gore really pulled a fast one in bringing her up.
Yup. She also drove out only because she does not like flying. And if she was poor, she could never afford all that gas for the trip...

He also brought up his support for the gulf war, when he voted with Republicans, etc. Turns out he only argeed to vote this way after demanding (and getting) a certain amount of TV time during prime time to say whateven he wanted to say (remember he was preparing to run for president in '91) in exchange for the vote. Yup, sent troops to combat for some TV time, good old Al.

Bush really stumbled a few times, and really failed to rebut a few direct attacts - that '1%' from Gore was repeated three or four times, and Bush did not directly answer. He talked in general about his tax plan, but just could not address the pint directly. He also just stopped talking a couple of times, as if to gather his thoughts (not a bad thing overall, but in a debate, hmmm.)

What if the other candidates where there? These two would have been destroyed.

[divemaster]

Originally posted by vix
I guess most people didn't get the impression that Bush was about to cry, he looked so scared. I haven't seen him in a debate before (oh, right, he hasn't been in a debate before), but I thought he presented very poorly. He never seemed to have any facts at his fingertips. Plus, he really screwed up the question toward the end about how he'd respond in a crisis situation. Ironic, no? Gore seemed to be his usual smug self, but he at least seemed like he had a firm grip on the issues. I'd say he was the winner.

Bush certainly has been in his share of debates. Two campaigns for governor, the Presidential primaries, and now this. This is a man who has spent many many hours on TV, in front of crowds, giving speeches, and answering questions. I certainly didn't sense any fear or immenent tears. I'm not sure where this impression comes from that Bush is new to all this.

[August West]

These two nincompoops were helped tremendously by the fact it was only the two of them. I kept watching and laughing, it was the funniest thing I've seen on TV in months.
Anybody else catch it when Bush was talking about a school in Houston and "at-risk" kids, he said "basically that means they can't learn". LOL!!

[Stoid]

Originally posted by wring

Bush should fire his speech writers. It appeared to me that they wanted to have the 10 second sound bite "bullet" and decided that it would either be "why haven't you done anything about it in 7 years" (apparently too long of a sound bite) or "that fuzzy math"

we'd like better.

and, I reiterate my basic position: I'm damn near begging for feminine product ads back on tv, just ANYTHING other than political ads.

My favorite lame-ass soundbite attempt was the "mediscare" - which made no sense and sounded ridiculous. He was also getting annoying with the "scare you in the voting booth" line. I hate the scriptedness and repetitiveness of both of them.

And if you are sick of politcal ads, move to California. You'd hardly know we were having an election if you didn't watch the news. I haven't seen ONE...for anyone, not just presidential candidates. Oh, I take that back. I've seen a couple of Nader commercials.

stoid

[Stoid]

Originally posted by ChiefWahoo
These two nincompoops were helped tremendously by the fact it was only the two of them. I kept watching and laughing, it was the funniest thing I've seen on TV in months.
Anybody else catch it when Bush was talking about a school in Houston and "at-risk" kids, he said "basically that means they can't learn". LOL!!

And did you understand Bush's line about "The military exists to fight and win wars, and therefore preventing any wars from happening"? Cuz I didn't.

[John Corrado]

Stoidela- that line made perfect sense to me; it's the standard "If we have a strong military which is capable of winning any war with little effort, no other country will be willing to start a war against us, or to start a war where it's likely we get involved."

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who though Gore was acting like a grade-A asshole with the sighs and the rolling of eyes and the other petulant stuff. My main complaint about Bush was he didn't walk over and slap Gore upside the head. *That* would have ensured my vote for Bush. (As it is, I just have to settle for the fact that I like Bush's Social Security plan and that Al Gore seems destined to piss me off every time I hear him talk about an issue.)

[HelloKitty]

For someone who was supposed to moderate the discussion, I thought Jim Leher did a poor job of keeping control of the entire affair.

Plus, I wasn't that impressed with the overall questions, either. In the opening of the debate, he made it sound like the questions were so exclusive, no one could possibly figure out what he was going to ask. "I alone have selected the questions, blah blah blah". Then he asked all the stuff that we hear about all the time anyway. Remember the rape question that Bernard Shaw asked Michael Dukakis in 1988? What about some shockers like that?

Both candidates pretty much talked about whatever they wanted no matter what the question was, anyway. It would have been more interesting if Leher would have interrupted a couple times, or called Gore on his head shaking, etc.

[SterlingNorth]

I heard somewhere that AL did not know that the camera was on him during times where Bush was speaking. (I was watching C-Span where they kep the camera on both people all the time. I just thought it was bad form for both of them to react so visibly to each other. of couse he knew the mic was on so there wasn't any excuse for the sigh.

I thought Bush was amazingly underprepared. He didn't try to refute or explain the numbers in his budge when Gore hammered him on that. Bush couldn't have not known that Gore was going to do that that night. Gore's only been doing it for about every day this campaign season. That cute trick was directing people to Bush's site to get the numbers that Bush didn't know for himself.

I think Gore had that pancake makeup on because he has that Nixonian tendancy to sweat. They said they also chilled the room to about 65 degrees. And I wouldn't rule out the campaigns haggling over wardrobe.

I thought it was wise for Gore not to attack back when Bush reintroduced the "Buddas Temple".

[PunditLisa]

I laughed my ass off when I read Milossarian's comments about Gore's makeup. Put him in frilly lingerie, and Gore would have been great as the sweet transvestite.

I was also turned immediately off when Jim Lehrer asked the first question (about Bush's lack of experience) and Gore did the stereotypical politician thing by ignoring the question and spewing off bullshit. "First, Jim, I'd like to thank my lovely wife for being here." Then he went into what was obviously a well-rehearsed canned speech. Blah Blah Blah. Cut the bullshit and ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I also thought Gore was disrespectful by constantly ignoring the rules and taking more time than he was allotted.

Bush would have used more time had he been able to think of something intelligent to say.

And, for the love of God, if either of them conjured up one more maudlin "Dick Jones from Minneapolis, who's in the audience" (picture candidate waving gleefully to his "new best friend") story, I was gonna hurl.

All in all, it was more fun than a barrel full of monkeys. Oh wait, it WAS a barrel full of monkeys.

[teppei]

Originally posted by John Corrado
Stoidela- that line made perfect sense to me; it's the standard "If we have a strong military which is capable of winning any war with little effort, no other country will be willing to start a war against us, or to start a war where it's likely we get involved."

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who though Gore was acting like a grade-A asshole with the sighs and the rolling of eyes and the other petulant stuff. My main complaint about Bush was he didn't walk over and slap Gore upside the head. *That* would have ensured my vote for Bush. (As it is, I just have to settle for the fact that I like Bush's Social Security plan and that Al Gore seems destined to piss me off every time I hear him talk about an issue.)

Thank God, someone who likes Bush! I was beginning to think I was the only pro-Bush member of the MB! I think what's gonna earn Bush alot of the votes is the fact that he's very pro-military, and realizes it needs to be improved. I'll admit it, our military is going down the shit hole, and we can thank the Clinton administration for that. I'm telling you, if Gore is elected president, I will do everything within my power to get out of the army. Well, maybe not, but I really dont' want to be in an army controlled by that man.

Why I'm picking bush (maybe I should go to Great Debates? naw, too lazy): his focus is the military. even if I hadnt' joined the army, I would still vote for bush for that single reason. gore claims his focus is education, but I'm a bit suspicous of his motives; as I'm sure you all are aware, education is a prime way to win voters. His main problem w/ education now? over crowding. so, we get more teachers, build more schools, both are dealt with on a state and local level. So, what else can Gore focus on? Bush is getting alot of crap for not being straight with what he's gonna do, but it's not like gore is being open either.

[McKenna]

Stoidela, you do realize that now we're going to be inundated by messages from Pennsylvania, Michigan,etc. Dopers screaming "Get down on your knees and thank the IPU that you're not being barraged with all these goddamn ads!" I'm in Massachusetts and that debate in Boston was the first time we've seen these guys in ages.

My roommate and I MST3K'ed the whole thing. We ended reciting "The richest one percent of Americans" with Prince Albert and booing, and "Mediscare" is gonna be really useful. I had a friend who said that he thought that Bush did well when he had a point to make but throw a curve ball at him and he became a stammering moron. I thought I smelled fear from him but maybe I was wrong. But Al's exasperated sighs got real old real fast. You could HEAR him rolling his eyes. And my roommate turned to me and said quietly, "Ya know, Winnebago's ain't that cheap" which kind of deflated all those anecdotes. I felt so sorry for that poor girl in Florida who had to stand in class...hell, I had fifty people in my homeroom in NYC in the Seventies and President Ford told the city to "drop dead" (or something like that).

Of course, we still have three more of these things to savor--I'm really looking forward to Dick n' Joe tomorrow. I'm just glad my VCR worked and recorded "Angel" for me. BTW, my cable system has, at 9:00 Tuesdays, "Angel" on Channel 6, "Dark Angel" on Channel 9, and "Touched by an Angel" on Channel 21. Sheesh.

Carolyn

[dropzone]

PBS didn't use the split screen, so I didn't notice Gore's sighs and eye rolling but his audible snorts of derision were hilarious. And Bush still looks and sounds like he was whacked in the head with a two-by-four.

I wish that Buchanan and Nader could have been there. Then the two hours (believe it or not, it was just two hours!) would have not been so tedious. Alan Keyes adds something to a debate, too. I don't agree with them about much, but they know how to present and support an argument.

Don't Bush and Gore have anything real to say? Has the culture of sound bites taken over so much that they don't even have more than five minutes of phoney stuff? They just kept saying the same crap over and over!

[Jman]

Originally posted by ChiefWahoo
These two nincompoops were helped tremendously by the fact it was only the two of them. I kept watching and laughing, it was the funniest thing I've seen on TV in months.
Anybody else catch it when Bush was talking about a school in Houston and "at-risk" kids, he said "basically that means they can't learn". LOL!!

YES!!! When he said that, I looked at my girlfriend and we both burst out laughing. This guy truly is an idiot. Ask any 15 year old, and they can probably give you a pretty accurate definition of what at-risk means when referring to children, yet he uses it as an example and he doesn't even know what it means! What a freak. There were plenty of times I noticed him saying incoherent statements, but that one took the cake.

Jman

[Milossarian]

His "at-risk" definition really threw me, too.

Upon reflection, and placing it in the context of what he was saying, I think what he meant was, he opposed unfortunate labels such as "at-risk" because it means euphemistically that those placing the labels think these kids can't learn.

Think about it. Before the comment, he was saying that "at-risk" was an unfortunate label. After the comment, he was saying how this "Teachers for Kids" group or whatever the hell they were proved that premise wrong.

Now, if you want to argue that it's pretty un-presidential to not be able to get your points out more articulately -- particularly when you've drilled for something like your first presidential debate -- I don't know what to say to that ...

Bush was rather mealy-mouthed on the RU486 question, but as a pro-choice Republican, I am understanding of that. I do not believe that Bush is really a strong Pro-Life candidate, whatever he feels he has to say to placate the far right in his party. I do not believe he would actively seek to overturn Roe v. Wade, and I think if he did, he would be in deep shit.

It's unfortunate that he doesn't have the courage of his convictions to stand up to that element of the party, but look what it did for my man McCain.

[stolichnaya]

Milo, that was the gist of it to me as well. This was one of the subjects he seemed to really care about, and the look of scorn on his face when he said "can't learn" made the point for me. I wasn't even confused. When you just read it, it sounds much more like he doesn't know what he's talking about. I agree that Bush is mealymouthed and spoonerized on occasion, but it seems like people are trying to catch him rather than listening to him.

[vanilla]

Obviously, Bush will now get the "pro-life" votes and Gore will not.
He did seem uncomfortable talking about it, as if we all already knew and why ask me?
But Gore simply was too snide.
I'm glad I'm not voting for either of them.

[MovieMogul]

Milo, that was the gist of it to me as well. This was one of the subjects he seemed to really care about, and the look of scorn on his face when he said "can't learn" made the point for me. I wasn't even confused. When you just read it, it sounds much more like he doesn't know what he's talking about. I agree that Bush is mealymouthed and spoonerized on occasion, but it seems like people are trying to catch him rather than listening to him.

I can't even remotely agree with this. When he was trying to define "at risk", he had to pause (as if searching for a definition) and then almost blurted out "can't learn." Nothing in his answer attempted to undermine or question the appropriateness of that label; instead, I have to wonder if it didn't expose some latent prejudice about the ability of certain kids to learn. After all, it is easier to be reductive about the issue than to address so many of the other socio-economic factors that put these children "at risk" in the first place (particularly since these are issues that Republicans have never really prioritized in the first place). I'm not denying that the guy is sincere and has "compassion", but that still doesn't excuse his ugly characterization (which he did nothing to qualify or explain or clarify afterwards). I'm not voting for Gore, but he should have jumped all over Bush on that one.

[poohpah chalupa]

Originally posted by Milossarian
And let me just say, in a spirit of bi-partisanship, that if I heard the terms "richest 1 percent," "put it in a lockbox" or "fuzzy math" one more time, I would have given Ralph Nader permission to run over both candidates repeatedly with a late-'70s model Pinto.
...with Firestone tires. Milo, this was priceless. I was also thinking that Gore looked like a hand-tinted photograph, then I noticed an eerie similarity to Reagan...on purpose?
Still, I think Gore so acting so animated because of his reputation for being wooden. My guess is his advisors told him to be more demonstrative to let America know that he isn't as stiff as believed and he, unfortunately overdid it.
OTOH, Bush just looked like a goof.
Nader probably ended up gaining more ground in the polls by not being able to participate than either Bush or Gore did by being so unremarkable.

[Biotop]

Did I hear Bush say something about getting oil from Mexico so we wouldn't be dependant on foreign oil? Or did I mishear? Or did I miss our annexing of Mexico?

[Ukulele Ike]

I see in this morning's papers that Bush supporters chanted "No fuzzy math! No fuzzy math!" at his rally yesterday. And Dubya reprised his "He thinks he invented the calculator!" witticism, his "MediScare" quip, and his "I'm not from Washington or Andover or Yale or Harvard; I'm just an ol' shit-shoveller from West Texas!" claim.

SOMEBODY thinks his speechwriter did a good job. And you'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

[John Bredin]

[hijack]

"BTW, my cable system has, at 9:00 Tuesdays, 'Angel' on Channel 6, 'Dark Angel' on Channel 9, and 'Touched by an Angel' on Channel 21. Sheesh."

I noticed that too, and I thought it was pretty funny. Here in Chicago, it wasn't even cable: 8pm had "Angel" on WGN-9 (WB), "Dark Angel" on 32 (Fox), and "Touched by an Angel" on 38 (PAX). Rather than watch the debate (I'm voting, but I know who I'm going to vote for) I clicked between Angel, Dark Angel, and "Broken Arrow".

[End hijack]

[Jman]

Originally posted by Poohpah Chalupa

I was also thinking that Gore looked like a hand-tinted photograph, then I noticed an eerie similarity to Reagan...on purpose?


I also noticed his resemblance to Reagan. I was watching and I said. "Al looks a lot older than he did a while ago...a lot older. In fact...he's starting to look a lot like....like....Reagan!!!" It's kind of odd.

Jman
_______________________________________
I put my name after my post. If this offends you, oh well.

[tradesilicon]

SOMEBODY thinks his speechwriter did a good job. And you'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
Yup, won't go broke doing that. Take for example the whoppers that Gore told during the debate to score points. (We already mentioned the poor little old lady can collector nonsence). He also told a stopry about public schools, and one school was in such bad shape (and supposedly overscrowded) that a student had to stand in class. Turns out that school was in a very well to do area (Sarasota, FL?) with a beutiful, spacious campus, and all kinds of recent improvement, wonderful equipment, etc. The classroom was being refurbished, and had new boxed equipment in the room, and that's why it was crowded. Wow. Gore has no boundaries to score points with the gullible. Not that Bush won't do it, just that Gore is so blatent about it...

[stolichnaya]

Reading these debate threads is like wathing that Star Trek episode where they got stuck in a closed timelike loop and had to do everything over and over again.

Remember that one?

ArchiveGuy, I'm going to go find the videotape and see if I haven't been imagining things. It's entirely possible. Regardless, it is my opinion that Dubyah does not harbor some deep-seated convition that Hispanic kids "can't learn". It's a verbal slip, no more, no less.

The implications of a man running for the highest office in the land scattering sound-bite worthy verbal slips around like the Easter Bunny, I leave to the reader.

[yosemite]

I have to agree with the "can't learn" thing being an unfortunate slip. It was obvious he was bragging up these "can't learn" kids - after all, he said they ended up being the "best learners" of the State. It was obvious (to me, anyway) that he was trying to describe these "at risk" kids as being shuffled off with the thought "Those 'at risk' kids can't learn." But that the particular school program these kids were put in proved that they indeed were great learners.

[Czarcasm]

I believe this is better suited to MPSIMS, so off it goes.

[Tripler]

Originally posted by yosemitebabe
About that the little old lady that Gore mentioned in the one - the one that collected cans and traveled with her poodle in a Winnebago. I heard on TV tonight that she is actually not at all destitute, has a well-to-do son who can look after her, and collects cans for a hobby. If that is all true, then Gore really pulled a fast one in bringing her up.



Yup. While on the StairMaster today, I was watching CNN which said that as far back as JFK, the "tearjerking letter" ploy was used, and has always backfired. Why Gore did that, I dunno. But I do like the fact that Bush directly attacked Gore, while Gore wimped out with a "I'd rather attack problems than the candidates." Makes me think that Gore didn't do his homework to drag up any dirt on Bush, conversely, Bush is a "cleaner" candidate than Gore.

Tripler
I'm voting Bush, 'cause he's pro-military. It's all about job security baby . . .

[Sapphire Bullet]

About that the little old lady that Gore mentioned in the one - the one that collected cans and traveled with her poodle in a Winnebago. I heard on TV tonight that she is actually not at all destitute, has a well-to-do son who can look after her, and collects cans for a hobby. If that is all true, then Gore really pulled a fast one in bringing her up.

In all fairness, this woman said she had to collect cans to pay for her food because her medicine was so expensive at some "town hall" meeting. Maybe she was coached, but the words did come out of her own mouth.

I was waiting for Bush to point out that this woman had been reduced to collecting cans under a Clinton/Gore administration.