I pit the "Get the fuck outta my way" attitude.

[Bibliovore]

Besides the War, Bush and Religion, perhaps nothing gets people as riled up as those threads about slow drivers and "bumbling pedestrians". Nothing seems to excite as much anger and spitting fury as people who either drive too slowly, walk too slowly, or who just seem to get in the way. Now I'd certainly agree that anyone causing a hazard deserves a pitting, be they reckless drivers or oblivious pedestrians, but there also seems to be a hell of a lot of impatience too. Some people seem to feel that they have a god-given right to drive as fast as they like or to curse out anyone who slows them down even a little. It's this "Get the FUCK out of my way" attitude that I have a problem with.

In some of the pedestrian threads I've seen, some posters have even gone so far as to say things like "I'm going that way. If you can see that I'm going that way and you don't get out of my way, I'm going to push you out of the way. And I can do it too, because I'm a big guy and if you have a problem with that then you can go fuck yourself."

Am I the only one that has a problem with this? Unless your wife is in labour or you're bleeding to death and racing to the ER, why are you in such a perpetual rush? Instead of fuming and cursing the people who haplessly slow you down or dare to get in your way, how about relaxing for a while and realising that even taking an extra 30 seconds to get where you're headed isn't going to ruin your day (and nor should you let it). If someone is blocking you, saying "excuse me" works wonders. Repeat if necessary. If someone really is being too slow and you have to overtake them, just wait for the first opportunity and do so without running them off the road or barging them out of the way or telling them to go fuck themselves.

Take deep breaths, people. A bit of patience and common courtesy will make everybody's lives easier and less stressful, including your own

[control-z]

Lead, follow, or get the fuck outta the way.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Lead, follow, or get the fuck outta the way.
I choose to obstruct.

[Bibliovore]

I choose to obstruct.


Snerk! :D


Seriously though, am I the only one here who feels this way?

[Iggins]

What bothers me is the obliviousness of some people - they just don't pay attention to what people around them are doing. I try to be vigilant, so that I don't impede people unnecessarily. That's all I really ask of anyone else...

[Anaamika]

You are. No, probably not, probably others will come to support you. But I take my leisure time when I feel like it, not at your provenance. (I think that's the right word. If not, sue me.) Anyway, I absolutely despise people who stop to talk in the middle of a aisle, or hallway, never realizing people are trying to get by. Or block up the road.

Excuse me does not always work, and that's crap and you know it. Sometimes it works, and the person says "Oh sorry!" and moves their cart or whatever. Sometimes they don't hear you, or ignore you, or worse yet, shoot you a nasty look.

What my point is, is why do I have to interrupt you to say excuse me? Why can't you (generic you) be considerate in the first place, and be aware of your surroundings. Sometimes i want to yell OPEN YOUR GODDAMN EYES! You're in the only path, blocking up the whole aisle, whatever.

When I go to the grocery store I am careful to move my cart off to the side when I stop it. I drive in the right lane except for passing. When I stop to talk I gently draw whomever I am talking to out of the lane. This happens about 90% of the time. Sometimes I forget, and I am always careful to apologize.

Why can't other people be aware of their surroundings? Why do I have to make accomodations for them?

Edit: Ok, so I like the edit function. *grumble*

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Snerk! :D

Seriously though, am I the only one here who feels this way?

Nope. I think there's too much hostility for too many things. I think that people's senses of entitlement are far over the top and their demands to have their 'rights' (which extend to everything these days, quite unlike what the authors of the idea of rights had in mind) respected even if that means steamrolling over others' rights.

A lot of people have just become far too aggressive. It's not a good thing.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Seriously though, am I the only one here who feels this way?

No, you're not, but keep in mind that a lot of people who say stuff like what you mentioned in your second paragraph are just blowing off steam.

I try to be patient, and I'm pretty good with slow pokes. The only ones that'll make me blow my top are the ones who are just plain rude. You say "excuse me," and they just look at you. You try again, and they ignore you. That, more than anything, would make me more likely to push someone out of the way or yell at them.

[Bibliovore]

What bothers me is the obliviousness of some people - they just don't pay attention to what people around them are doing. I try to be vigilant, so that I don't impede people unnecessarily. That's all I really ask of anyone else...

That's completely fair. It's the "fuck you" attitude I have a problem with.

[tdn]

Excuse me does not always work, and that's crap and you know it. Sometimes it works, and the person says "Oh sorry!" and moves their cart or whatever. Sometimes they don't hear you, or ignore you, or worse yet, shoot you a nasty look.
I find that almost always, it works. Almost.

The other night I was trying to exit a pizzeria and was blocked by a bunch of people coming in. Which is to be expected, but man oh man were they ever taking their sweet time about it. But I stood there patiently. When they were finally all in I once again attemted egress. But there were about seven other people standing outside the door. Really close to the door. So close I could barely open it. When I finally managed to squeeze my way through, my path was blocked by The Young and the Clueless. I asked the subgenius blocking me to excuse me. Four times. The last one was shouted almost directly into his ear.

Not. A. Clue.

[Bibliovore]

What my point is, is why do I have to interrupt you to say excuse me?...

Why can't other people be aware of their surroundings? Why do I have to make accomodations for them?


You're not making an accomodation for them, you're politely letting them know that you're there and that you need to get past them. Yes, in an ideal world, people wouldn't be too engrossed in conversations to notice that they're in your way, but these things happen. Saying "excuse me" only takes a second and I'd guess that 99% of the time people will get out of the way if they hear you.

There might be the odd jerk who hears you and continues to ignore you, but that's an altogether different level of jerkishness. Such people may very well feel that they shouldn't have to make allowances for you. I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if that's what was running through their minds.

I guess my point is that the amount of rage engendered by these all-too common encounters is entirely disproportionate to the inconvenience actually caused.

[Bibliovore]

I find that almost always, it works. Almost.

The other night I was trying to exit a pizzeria and was blocked by a bunch of people coming in. Which is to be expected, but man oh man were they ever taking their sweet time about it. But I stood there patiently. When they were finally all in I once again attemted egress. But there were about seven other people standing outside the door. Really close to the door. So close I could barely open it. When I finally managed to squeeze my way through, my path was blocked by The Young and the Clueless. I asked the subgenius blocking me to excuse me. Four times. The last one was shouted almost directly into his ear.

Not. A. Clue.


And kudos to you for not losing your temper and swearing at him or pushing him out of the way. That kind of self-posession and patience is exactly what's needed. You undoubtedly got where you were going at a loss of maybe 20-30 seconds and nobody's day was ruined.

[tdn]

And kudos to you for not losing your temper and swearing at him or pushing him out of the way.
Actually, I think I called him a fuckwit. But not loud enough that he could hear. :cool:

[Man With a Cat]

More and more people seem to act like they are The Only Person in the World. We must accommodate them, wait for them to move out the aisle in the grocery store, or out of the doorway.

A sub-group of this is the people that fail to realize that walking works SO MUCH better when you are actually using the eyes in your head to look where the holy fuck you are going!!!!!!!

These are the ones that, from a standing start, take their first couple steps either backwards, or looking in a totally different direction.

They get the death ray, and I never have to see them again.

[guizot]

While driving in a city, most people are in a hurry to get to...wait at the next red light. And to accelerate just to get to the next red light faster not only unnecessarily wears down your engine, but your brakes as wear. On the sidewalk, however, I can see where someone might be late for work or something, and a group of three or four people are walking side-by-side—completely blocking the way--at an unusually slow pace. It’s annoying because they’re just so completely oblivious to other people.

[AHunter3]

If there's no reasonable expectation that they should get out of my way — e.g., we're in a queue to buy movie tickets and the folks in front of me can't proceed until the folks in front of them are done, etc — no impatience (at least not with the folks in front of me) and no hostility.

If the people in question are impaired or incapacitated, and/or there are simply too many people in too small a space to be able to get out of my way, again no impatience and no hostility.

If, on the other hand, people are plodding their bovine stoopid slow-moving selves directly into my path despite me being in plain sight and in motion, or occupying an inappropriate bit of real estate for a nearly-motionless person to occupy (like smack dab in the middle of the stairs or one foot inside the train doors), yes, they piss me off to no end, it's selfish and inconsiderate of them. They have the right to stand still or move slowly; they bloody well don't have the right to be obstacles and interfere with other folks' freedom of motion.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

I tend to agree more with Anaamika than Book Monster on this one, but largely because Book Monster is describing a large range of interactions that make it hard for me to figure out who I should be mad at. Should I be mad at the hyper, eye-bulging rage fueled driver riding on my ass? Sure, I can get behind that.

But I can't stand being held up because someone else wants to dawdle, particularly people who are oblivious of others and decide to have a big conversation right in the main entryway or aisle. I know it isn't hard to have a bit of common courtesy and steer your group to the side, because I regularly do it myself.

(An associated phenomenon that we've discussed here previously are the three-abreast women who can't be bothered to re-orient their cohort as they wander down the sidewalk, so that others can negotiate around them.)

Also, having just traveled again recently, I have to shout out a little reminder: When on a moving walkway, attend to the goddamn signs - walk on the left, stand on the right. As an addendum, if you're standing on the right, fine, but get your shit out of the way.

I have to say that I experience a great deal more inconsiderate dawdlers, gawkers and gabbers than I do eye-bulging angry bustlers, so perhaps that has something to do with my feeling inclined against the OP.

[Contrapuntal]

You are. No, probably not, probably others will come to support you. But I take my leisure time when I feel like it, not at your provenance. (I think that's the right word. If not, sue me.)It's pleasure. Consider yourself served.

[Thudlow Boink]

"Ever notice that anyone going slower than you is an idiot, but anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" -George Carlin

[HazelNutCoffee]

I just don't like rude people in general, whether they are blocking the sidewalk or shouting at people to move the fuck out of the way. Both piss me off. But like Hentor says, I see a lot more of the former than the latter. On campus, people are generally moving pretty quickly so there's not much of a problem, but downtown, I really just want to punch those tourists who find it necessary to walk five abreast at a snail's pace. Or people who abruptly stop in the middle of the sidewalk. You wouldn't do that while driving a car. Just step to the side if you need to take the time to be confused.

[tdn]

If the people in question are impaired or incapacitated, and/or there are simply too many people in too small a space to be able to get out of my way, again no impatience and no hostility.
Working (and walking) in a hospital has taught me a lot of patience. I often get stuck behind slowpokes in the hallway. But instead of getting mad, I am thankful that I'm not a 300 pound stabbing victim with alzheimers and two broken legs.

On the other hand, crowds often gather around the entrance to the conference room by where I need to walk. The typical response to "excuse me" is "moo."

[Iggins]

...three-abreast women ...

mmmm... Three-abreast women..... mmmm....

carry on.

[silenus]

GTFOMW is the only way you can get across the quad at school during a passing period or at lunch. If I try to be polite, I'll never make it to my meeting in time. Besides, they're only students. I outrank them! Other teachers have taken to following in my wake, because I can plow through the throng when they can. Mass and attitude has its place sometimes.

This also works on the sidewalks of Vegas. I believe I have ranted on this fact.

[Anaamika]

It's pleasure. Consider yourself served.
Well I have no money so you'll have to settle for something else. I just liked the word and couldn't remember if I had it right.

As to the OP, generally I don't like people. I admit it freely. 85% or more of people annoy the hell out of me. That's because 85% or more of people are annoying.

I have never ever shouted at anyone to get out of my way. But I still do get irritated. It's for a brief moment, it's not like I'm feeding off my rage for days!

As for driving...well, I would like people to at least drive the speed limit when possible - you know, sunny clear conditions and all that. I don't really comprehend why people choose to drive 32 in a 40 mph zone. I'm not driving 40 or 45 because I particularly want to get home early, I'm driving it because driving is a source of pleasure to me and I like to drive fast. I don't speed a lot but I like to take what pleasure I can get. But when these people get in front of me I roll my eyes and back off.

Walking is the only time it really annoys me. I walk at a certain pace and I like to maintain that pace. That pace is fast. And in the grocery store - I want to get my shopping and go home to relax!

[Contrapuntal]

Well I have no money so you'll have to settle for something else.Cool. Have your people contact my people.

[What Exit?]

What bothers me is the obliviousness of some people - they just don't pay attention to what people around them are doing. I try to be vigilant, so that I don't impede people unnecessarily. That's all I really ask of anyone else...
That's completely fair. It's the "fuck you" attitude I have a problem with.
If you agree with this, that is all I would ask for.

What about the people who will not even move out of the way when you do say excuse me? There is also the special people that stop at the end of a busy escalator instead of taking a few extra steps. Who is worse the F U person if he just grumbles and says excuse me or the actual clueless people?

I think all of this is a give and take. Some people are just oblivious and never pay any attention to what goes on around them. They generate most of the F U hostility that I think you are complaining about.

Jim

[D_Odds]

You're not making an accomodation for them, you're politely letting them know that you're there and that you need to get past them. Yes, in an ideal world, people wouldn't be too engrossed in conversations to notice that they're in your way, but these things happen. Saying "excuse me" only takes a second and I'd guess that 99% of the time people will get out of the way if they hear you.
You guess wrong. "Excuse me" is usually my first option, when the person might have a reasonable expectation of not knowing someone wants to pass, but I find it less than 99% effective. I would guess more like 75%.

I am, however, this person:In some of the pedestrian threads I've seen, some posters have even gone so far as to say things like "I'm going that way. If you can see that I'm going that way and you don't get out of my way, I'm going to push you out of the way. And I can do it too, because I'm a big guy and if you have a problem with that then you can go fuck yourself."When getting off a subway or bus, people exiting have priority. If you* stand in the center of the doorway and try to surge in before I exit, you will run up against me. When I can barely enter a bus because one or two people decide they don't want to fill the back where there is plenty of room (and no one else challenges them), I will push by everyone (saying "Excuse me"), and you had best not get angry at me for your inconsideration. When you look at the escalator and see the left side moving because people are climbing, and the right side has a queue because people are standing, don't go up the left side and stand, or I'll push by you there too. Your inconsideration, not mine. If you and your friends are walking 4-5 abreast down the block and I'm walking in the opposite direction, I'll move to the right, but I also expect you to allow others to pass. Do not get angry with me for not flattening against the wall for you. Lastly, when exiting a revolving door or an escalator, keep moving. Don't get angry when the people behind you keep coming. They've literally nowhere else to go, and it is your own cluelessness causing collisions (and I will point that out to you). For the record, I recognize that all of these (and quite a few other) behaviors annoy me and inappropriately inconvenience others, so I make every effort to not engage in them.

I'm moving from point A to point B. Any time spent transitioning is wasted time. If your inconsideration causes me to waste even more time, don't expect me to be overly polite. You'll get, at most, one "excuse me".

*Not any 'you' in particular, but a global, generic 'you'.

[Bibliovore]

I can understand that it's irritating, but even if someone does get in your way, how much time have you really lost? Why get so mad about it?

And not to go off on a tangent, but does anyone think this is a predominantly US thing? I don't tend to see the same inchoate fury from non-American dopers, or is that just because there are more US dopers in general?

[KidScruffy]

As for driving...well, I would like people to at least drive the speed limit when possible - you know, sunny clear conditions and all that. I don't really comprehend why people choose to drive 32 in a 40 mph zone. I'm not driving 40 or 45 because I particularly want to get home early, I'm driving it because driving is a source of pleasure to me and I like to drive fast. I don't speed a lot but I like to take what pleasure I can get. But when these people get in front of me I roll my eyes and back off.
And here I always thought the speed limit was a maximum, not a minimum. Consider my ignorance fought.

[Uncommon Sense]

Personally, I think the people that don't get out of your way are the pretentious ones. They don't care that they may be blocking a normal person's venture out into the hallway, the store aisle, or the parking lot.
Look aound you, if there generally tends to be more people moving around with more expediency than yourself then you are the problem, not us. I like to get from place to place efficiently, not with some lumbered, waddling, loafing gait. That is not an efficient mode of transportation for my body.
These people that get in my way the most are the people that are probably too lazy to walk normally (or at least to one side of the hallway), too lazy to look around and tend to be the kind of self-indulged people that don't care what happens around them or who they slow up. Not everyone has infinite time to get from point A to point B.
If someone, on the rare occasion, is bearing down on my tail, I will get the hell out of their way.

[yellowval]

I can understand that it's irritating, but even if someone does get in your way, how much time have you really lost? Why get so mad about it?
Seems to me that some people just think their time is more important than everyone else's. These are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays and become enraged at others for inconveniencing them (just for being alive it seems at times). I think too many people forget that these are other human beings they're shoving out of the way.

[Cisco]

As contradictory as it may sound, I kind of, sort of agree with the OP except in 3 specific circumstances:

1. Driving slow as fuck in the left lane. NO. There are plenty of other lanes for you to go amble about in at whatever speed you choose. The left lane is for PASSING and instead you are BEING PASSED (on the right.) You're a fucking idiot and you need to GTFOMW.

2. Pedestrians who wait until a milisecond before the "Don't Walk" sign comes on before they start walking, and then walk at the slowest pace humanly possible. I was in the Bay Area on business recently and I could swear that those idiots do that on purpose as part of some sort of sick game. My attitude when playing the role of a pedestrian is that cars are TRYING to hit me and I act accordingly. No matter whose side the municiple laws are on, the laws of physics are on the cars' side. These people are fucking idiots and need to GTFOMW.

3. People on moving sidewalks with huge signs every 30 feet that says "STAND TO THE RIGHT - WALK TO THE LEFT" who are standing side-by-side blocking the path. The worst is when they have kids with them and I wonder what other incredibly rude behaviors they're teaching their little heathens. These people are fucking idiots and need to GTFOMW.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

I can understand that it's irritating, but even if someone does get in your way, how much time have you really lost? Why get so mad about it?

And not to go off on a tangent, but does anyone think this is a predominantly US thing? I don't tend to see the same inchoate fury from non-American dopers, or is that just because there are more US dopers in general?I don't see "inchoate fury" from Americans either, either here or in general. Nobody is saying that they knock people to the ground and stomp their heads when they experience this significantly inconsiderate behavior.

As to how much time I've lost: How much time should you be allowed to essentially take from me due to nothing other than your inability to demonstrate basic consideration of others? 3 seconds? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? I don't think it's entirely the amount of time either. Someone blowing an airhorn near my head as I walk down the street won't cause me to lose any time, yet I'll be pissed off at them for doing so.

You seem to be considering only time into the equation, and not the frustration that arises from having someone else, however mildly, interfere with you for no other reason than they are exceptionally stupid.

[HazelNutCoffee]

And not to go off on a tangent, but does anyone think this is a predominantly US thing? I don't tend to see the same inchoate fury from non-American dopers, or is that just because there are more US dopers in general?
You think it's bad in the US? Try going to London and dawdling in the midst of pedestrian traffic. Or even better, Seoul. I think it's a more city thing than an American thing.

[Sarahfeena]

Seems to me that some people just think their time is more important than everyone else's. These are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays and become enraged at others for inconveniencing them (just for being alive it seems at times). I think too many people forget that these are other human beings they're shoving out of the way. I wouldn't shove someone out of my way, but if someone is moving slowing in front of me and won't yield, aren't they the ones who think they are more important? If I want to go around a slow mover, I am not inconveniencing them...they can still continue to move at their preferred pace. But if they won't let me around them, then I am NOT able to continue at MY preferred pace.

[Cisco]

And not to go off on a tangent, but does anyone think this is a predominantly US thing? I don't tend to see the same inchoate fury from non-American dopers, or is that just because there are more US dopers in general?
:dubious: If you want to get stereotypical about it, the area I've been to with the craziest, horn-honkingest, most inconsiderate drivers is the Baltic. The immigrants I've known with the rudest driving behaviors and highest propensity to road rage are from the Middle East. I'm not aiming to establish a counter-stereotype but rather to shoot down one you're attempting to create.

[Bibliovore]

You guess wrong. "Excuse me" is usually my first option, when the person might have a reasonable expectation of not knowing someone wants to pass, but I find it less than 99% effective. I would guess more like 75%

Perhaps it's the way I ask? :)

I am, however, this person:When getting off a subway or bus, people exiting have priority

I agree

When you look at the escalator and see the left side moving because people are climbing, and the right side has a queue because people are standing, don't go up the left side and stand, or I'll push by you there too. Your inconsideration, not mine.

This is what I have a problem with. In that situation, an "Excuse me" should be enough. Possibly even an "Excuse ME!". I don't think there's ever a good reason to physically push people out of your way unless it's a tightly-packed crowd and you have nowhere else to go because that just comes off as aggressive and unnecessarily escalates the situation.

If you and your friends are walking 4-5 abreast down the block and I'm walking in the opposite direction, I'll move to the right, but I also expect you to allow others to pass. Do not get angry with me for not flattening against the wall for you. Lastly, when exiting a revolving door or an escalator, keep moving. Don't get angry when the people behind you keep coming. They've literally nowhere else to go, and it is your own cluelessness causing collisions (and I will point that out to you). For the record, I recognize that all of these (and quite a few other) behaviors annoy me and inappropriately inconvenience others, so I make every effort to not engage in them.

I agree with all of these. You've done what you can in each case and people shouldn't expect you to walk in the gutter to avoid them. There's plenty of room for everyone.

I'm moving from point A to point B. Any time spent transitioning is wasted time. If your inconsideration causes me to waste even more time, don't expect me to be overly polite. You'll get, at most, one "excuse me".

And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?

[Anaamika]

And here I always thought the speed limit was a maximum, not a minimum. Consider my ignorance fought.
Now, now, no need to be sarcastic. You can go what speed you prefer and feel safe. All I was pointing out was I don't comprehend it. I don't tailgate, or honk, or gesticulate. My reaction is restrained to exactly what I said: roll my eyes, and back off - meaning drop back a couple of car lengths.

I.e., leaving you alone.

Again, I don't drive at speed limit or slightly above to rush - I do it because I enjoy it. Driving 30 mph to me is the epitome of boredom, but of course I do it when I have to. So you're impeding my enjoyment - it's not that I'm trying to get somewhere. That's how the world works, I understand that, but I reserve the right to not like it.

And I still feel it's the obstinate people who amble along, taking up the whole sidewalk, that are the arrogant ones here. Make the whole world conform to your pace, is that it?

It also depends on the locale. I hate going to NYC and finding some of these people, but in Vermont I slow myself down quite a bit to match the locals.

[D_Odds]

I wouldn't shove someone out of my way, but if someone is moving slowing in front of me and won't yield, aren't they the ones who think they are more important? If I want to go around a slow mover, I am not inconveniencing them...they can still continue to move at their preferred pace. But if they won't let me around them, then I am NOT able to continue at MY preferred pace.
Exactly. When moving from the subway station to my office, there are hundreds of people doing the same going in each direction, and the pace tends to be slower than I would generally like. I can accept that. Then we get to the escalator, as I mentioned. It doesn't happen everyday, or even every week, but at least once a month, during the short span that I'm on the escalator, someone decides that they are too good to wait with the others who simply stand on the right, and walk up the left side and stop. Yet, the OP would fault me because I don't acquiesce? I'm the inconsiderate one? I'm sorry if I'm not meek enough for you...ah hell, no I'm not. I've got no problems with the hundreds of thousands of commuters I've encounter over the years who 'get it', only with the dozens (hundreds maybe) who don't.

[Anaamika]

This is what I have a problem with. In that situation, an "Excuse me" should be enough. Possibly even an "Excuse ME!". I don't think there's ever a good reason to physically push people out of your way unless it's a tightly-packed crowd and you have nowhere else to go because that just comes off as aggressive and unnecessarily escalates the situation.


You are misquoting him. He said "push by" not push. Push by is different. And no, I'm telling you, excuse me doesn't always work. People will downright ignore you. Do you think wer're making this up? No snark there, honestly wondering.


And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?

But if they are not in a rush, then I also must not be in a rush? Aren't they making me conform to their time frame? And quite frankly, I don't want to. I rather like my life fast - it's exciting, and enjoyable. I don't ask them to share in it, just get out of the way.

[yellowval]

I wouldn't shove someone out of my way, but if someone is moving slowing in front of me and won't yield, aren't they the ones who think they are more important? If I want to go around a slow mover, I am not inconveniencing them...they can still continue to move at their preferred pace. But if they won't let me around them, then I am NOT able to continue at MY preferred pace.
I guess maybe I just don't let those kinds of things get to me. If I have to slow down for a bit until it's convenient for me to go around someone, so be it. If I have to wait behind someone in line who takes a few seconds to write out a check, whatever. Getting pissed off about it isn't going to help the situation at all. If anything, a confrontation with a person I felt was inconveniencing me would probably set me back even more. Why cause myself undue stress? Admittedly, my world view might be skewed by the fact that I live in a very rural area. Fewer people seem to be in a hurry here. I'm also rarely in a hurry because I try to always give myself extra time to allow for unexpected stuff that comes up.

[tdn]

I don't think there's ever a good reason to physically push people out of your way unless it's a tightly-packed crowd and you have nowhere else to go because that just comes off as aggressive and unnecessarily escalates the situation.
The only time I push is when I'm trying to exit a trolley or bus and people getting on won't let me out. I'll say "excuse me" and "coming out" a few times. Most people will step aside. But if they don't, I exit anyway. I won't physically push anyone, but I may get a little more elbowy than usual. Because that teaches a valuable lesson. :D

Besides, it gives me a chance to be aggressive, while at the same time remaining passive. ;)

[KidScruffy]

Now, now, no need to be sarcastic. You can go what speed you prefer and feel safe. All I was pointing out was I don't comprehend it.
Sorry, sarcasm was uncalled for.
As much as you can't comprehend slow drivers, I'm often confused when I'm a passenger and the driver gets up-in-arms (i.e., tailgating and gesticulating) because the car ahead of us is driven by a law-abiding citizen.

I do get annoyed by "slow-walkers", though. I don't honk in my car, but if I had a horn on my body I'd probably use it on the slow-walkers.

[Anaamika]

Everybody keeps assuming we are all having confrontations. How many confrontations have you seen, really? Is this really a frequent thing? I live in NY, and we are supposed to be bastards and I rarely see confrontations of this nature. Fact I cant' remember when the last one I saw was.

[D_Odds]

This is what I have a problem with. In that situation, an "Excuse me" should be enough. Possibly even an "Excuse ME!". I don't think there's ever a good reason to physically push people out of your way unless it's a tightly-packed crowd and you have nowhere else to go because that just comes off as aggressive and unnecessarily escalates the situation.Anaamika nailed it in one. Push by, not push. Also, while they will get a perfunctory "excuse me", they've already labeled themself as "more important" by not queuing on the right, and they will generally not have room to move (that's why there is a queue on the right). So, as much as I would love to pick the breathing obstacle up and bodysurf him/her to the bottom, I'll wedge my shoulder in and move past, trying hard not to push those properly on the right, until I get to the empty steps in front.And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?The waiting and letting others get away with their inconsideration is more stressful. My stress points are different than yours. And, as others have done, I can turn it around - why is the human roadblock's time more precious than mine?

[Anaamika]

Sorry, sarcasm was uncalled for.
As much as you can't comprehend slow drivers, I'm often confused when I'm a passenger and the driver gets up-in-arms (i.e., tailgating and gesticulating) because the car ahead of us is driven by a law-abiding citizen.


Well, those people I don't understand, either. It isn't going to make the person go faster. It's probably going to make them more nervous or irritated and thus go slower.

The only time you'll hear me curse in such a fashion is when I'm tooling along happily at whatever speed and someone cuts me off abruptly. Otherwise it's just a big...sigh. And it makes a difference if I have a passenger, too. At least I can chat with the passenger. When I'm alone, it's all about my Zen time, and these people are interrupting my Zen time.,

What gets ME mad is the people who have to hit their brakes every three seconds, just to maintain speed or whatnot. I wanna say "You can just take your foot off the gas, and the car will slow down all by itself".

[D_Odds]

I live in NY.Yes, but it's on the Canadian side of NY. :cool:

[Anaamika]

Yes, but it's on the Canadian side of NY. :cool:
Haha, thank you, Mr. Long Islander. :p (I believe that is where you live, or do you actually live in NYC?) Either way, next time I come down I'm going to run your ass down.

[tdn]

That's so romantic!

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Everybody keeps assuming we are all having confrontations. How many confrontations have you seen, really? Is this really a frequent thing? I live in NY, and we are supposed to be bastards and I rarely see confrontations of this nature. Fact I cant' remember when the last one I saw was.I was just wondering the same thing. I don't really see any pushing going on. I live in Pittsburgh, so we're not dealing with the same magnitude of people and potential conflicts, but the times I've been in Boston or New York or Chicago, I don't recall a lot of problems. (I did notice, living in St. Louis, that a lot of people there felt compelled to play "shoulder chicken" (where you are walking towards one another, and will bump your shoulders if one person doesn't move a bit to one side). I don't know if that sort of thing is how Chicago got the nickname "City of Big Shoulders," but they should have called St. Louis the "City of Assholes with Shoulders." 2. Pedestrians who wait until a milisecond before the "Don't Walk" sign comes on before they start walking, and then walk at the slowest pace humanly possible. I was in the Bay Area on business recently and I could swear that those idiots do that on purpose as part of some sort of sick game. My attitude when playing the role of a pedestrian is that cars are TRYING to hit me and I act accordingly. No matter whose side the municiple laws are on, the laws of physics are on the cars' side. These people are fucking idiots and need to GTFOMW.I've notice a fascinating phenomenon where people facing the end of a walk signal will run or jog until they make it in front of your car, and then they slow to a walk. It's as if they've established themselves in the lane, and are willing to let you take a charging penalty if you drive into them. Like you say, physics dictate that you ought to be running until you get out of my car's way, not in it.

[D_Odds]

The only time I push is when I'm trying to exit a trolley or bus and people getting on won't let me out. I'll say "excuse me" and "coming out" a few times. Most people will step aside. But if they don't, I exit anyway. I won't physically push anyone, but I may get a little more elbowy than usual. Because that teaches a valuable lesson. Exactly. It also works for those who think that it is proper to step just inside the subway / bus door and stop. I never cease to be amazed at how crowded a doorway can get, yet the space between the doorways is wide open on subways (well, wide open except for me and too few other brave souls).
Haha, thank you, Mr. Long Islander.Born and now back in Queens. Teens and very early 20s in LI.

[tdn]

I've notice a fascinating phenomenon where people facing the end of a walk signal will run or jog until they make it in front of your car, and then they slow to a walk.
It's just a guess, but I think what's going through their heads is "Gotta cross the intersection NOW! Now now now! Meh, I'm halfway across already. I'm in no hurry."

[hajario]

Seems to me that some people just think their time is more important than everyone else's. These are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays and become enraged at others for inconveniencing them (just for being alive it seems at times). I think too many people forget that these are other human beings they're shoving out of the way.

Just the opposite actually. The people who think that their time is more important than other's are the inconsiderate pin heads who get in the way. It's nothing for them to push their shopping cart over several inches while they decide what kind of ice cream to buy. They won't even notice me rolling by.

I make a point of standing to the side when I'm stopped or going slowly. I move out of the left lane when someone is on my tail. The times that I screw this up and I inconvenience someone, I apologize because I am in the wrong.

[Dante]

And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?My time is exactly as precious as everyone else's. If I can go through life using the basics of "stay to the right, step to the side, keep the aisles clear", why can't the Obliviots do the same?

And remember kids, barging through a group of idiots isn't stressful, it's fun!

[Autumn Almanac]

And here I always thought the speed limit was a maximum, not a minimum. Consider my ignorance fought.
Just this morning on my way to work, I got stuck behind a guy going 30 on a road where the speed limit is 45. I consider that just as dangerous as going 15 mph over the limit. I was afraid someone else was going to turn onto the road, heed the speed limit sign, accelerate to 45-- then have to slam on their brakes or swerve when they suddenly come up behind me and slowpoke. Predictability is the key to safe driving. Doing something other drivers won't expect or anticipate, whether that's driving unreasonably fast or unreasonably slow, is a great way to cause an accident.

[tdn]

I never cease to be amazed at how crowded a doorway can get, yet the space between the doorways is wide open on subways
Someone started a whole Pit thread about that phenomenon happening in Boston all the time. Since then I've observed what happens, and I don't really see it. The entire car is usually filled. But I ride when approximately 27843788 people need to get moved in the space of an hour.

I do understand people wanting to avoid the middle, though. Who wants to wade through a sea of humanity just to get off the train?

Last night I was the last one to get on the train. My feet are bigger than the steps, so I had to twist them into an awkward position just to fit. I had to become a contortionist just to allow the doors to close. Even so, part of my coat ended up pinched in them. I had to press tightly up against a woman who I would describe as very attractive. I was so close that her pony tail was tickling my nose. I had to put my arm around her and over her chest to grab onto the rail.

It was very uncomfortable. I'd like to do it again.

[Uncommon Sense]

And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?
My day could sometimes only be less stressful if I could run from point A to point B.

This is only at work, mind you. As soon as I punch the clock I slow down to less-than-superhuman speeds.

[What Exit?]

I don't see "inchoate fury" from Americans either, either here or in general. Nobody is saying that they knock people to the ground and stomp their heads when they experience this significantly inconsiderate behavior.

As to how much time I've lost: How much time should you be allowed to essentially take from me due to nothing other than your inability to demonstrate basic consideration of others? 3 seconds? 5 seconds? 10 seconds? I don't think it's entirely the amount of time either. Someone blowing an airhorn near my head as I walk down the street won't cause me to lose any time, yet I'll be pissed off at them for doing so.

You seem to be considering only time into the equation, and not the frustration that arises from having someone else, however mildly, interfere with you for no other reason than they are exceptionally stupid.
I think this sums it up perfectly. Actual examples of someone cursing someone else out are rather rare. This pitting is over something that was not being done by members of the board, just things we would like to do to the inconsiderate and oblivious of the world.

I will add other weird behaviors to the list.

There is a certain type of driver that will come up behind me on the highway while I am speeding along in the left lane and get on my tail. At the first opportunity, I always move over, assuming they want to pass like any other reasonable speeder. They do not pass me, they actually slow down to match my speed and then I get stuck behind the slower moving traffic in the middle lane and can have a hard time getting back to the fast lane. This happens maybe once a week, anyone have a clue what these drivers are thinking and doing? It seems like a particularly rude and stupid thing to do. They start by tailgating and then do not even take advantage of my being polite and actually end up holding me up.

Then the driver who moves over when you come up behind them and they are doing 66 in the fast lane, but inexplicably accelerate to 80 when they move over the lane. What is there major malfunction?

Jim

[Hentor the Barbarian]

It's just a guess, but I think what's going through their heads is "Gotta cross the intersection NOW! Now now now! Meh, I'm halfway across already. I'm in no hurry."I'd agree, except that it really is when they are right in front of the cars, and generally they aren't even a quarter of the way across yet. I think pedestrians in Pittsburgh feel a lot safer than they ought to, and are safer than pedestrians in a lot of other cities.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

There is a certain type of driver that will come up behind me on the highway while I am speeding along in the left lane and get on my tail. At the first opportunity, I always move over, assuming they want to pass like any other reasonable speeder. They do not pass me, they actually slow down to match my speed and then I get stuck behind the slower moving traffic in the middle lane and can have a hard time getting back to the fast lane. This happens maybe once a week, anyone have a clue what these drivers are thinking and doing? It seems like a particularly rude and stupid thing to do. They start by tailgating and then do not even take advantage of my being polite and actually end up holding me up.I've seen that as well. I think some people want to go as fast as you do, but don't want to be naked out there speeding alone in front. They can also blame you for keeping them back as long as you are in front of them.

I also find it amusing when you pass someone on the highway, and they suddenly want to speed up. It usually takes about two car lengths of distance between you before they seem to want to drop back to the speed that they were going before you aroused them.

[tdn]

I'd agree, except that it really is when they are right in front of the cars, and generally they aren't even a quarter of the way across yet. I think pedestrians in Pittsburgh feel a lot safer than they ought to, and are safer than pedestrians in a lot of other cities.
Huh. I can see doing that when you're 75% of the way across. I've done that. I figure that the car can get past me soon enough, it's just a few more steps to the curb.

Maybe your hypothesis about squatting is right.

[Uncommon Sense]

I will add other weird behaviors to the list.

There is a certain type of driver that will come up behind me on the highway while I am speeding along in the left lane and get on my tail. At the first opportunity, I always move over, assuming they want to pass like any other reasonable speeder. They do not pass me, they actually slow down to match my speed and then I get stuck behind the slower moving traffic in the middle lane and can have a hard time getting back to the fast lane. This happens maybe once a week, anyone have a clue what these drivers are thinking and doing? It seems like a particularly rude and stupid thing to do. They start by tailgating and then do not even take advantage of my being polite and actually end up holding me up.

Then the driver who moves over when you come up behind them and they are doing 66 in the fast lane, but inexplicably accelerate to 80 when they move over the lane. What is there major malfunction?

Jim
People use other cars as a RADAR block. They'll speed up to the car in front of them but won't overtake 'cause then they'll be the one in front that gets busted if there's a cop up ahead.

[Sarahfeena]

I guess maybe I just don't let those kinds of things get to me. If I have to slow down for a bit until it's convenient for me to go around someone, so be it. If I have to wait behind someone in line who takes a few seconds to write out a check, whatever. Getting pissed off about it isn't going to help the situation at all. If anything, a confrontation with a person I felt was inconveniencing me would probably set me back even more. Why cause myself undue stress? Admittedly, my world view might be skewed by the fact that I live in a very rural area. Fewer people seem to be in a hurry here. I'm also rarely in a hurry because I try to always give myself extra time to allow for unexpected stuff that comes up. It's not the time factor for me, so much as my natural pace, which has to be slowed down if people won't yield. It's very difficult to walk at 1/2 of my normal speed. The other thing that is maddening is just the idea that people are so oblivious to other people. Just now, I was walking down the street and had to practically step in the gutter twice because there were groups of people walking towards me, and it never occurred to them that maybe I would like some room on the sidewalk, too. What has the world come to when a hugely pregnant person doesn't get the right-of-way? ;) That's really the bottom line for me...it's about being sensitive to other people & not just your own concerns...basic politeness.

[tdn]

Just now, I was walking down the street and had to practically step in the gutter twice because there were groups of people walking towards me, and it never occurred to them that maybe I would like some room on the sidewalk, too.
I have found a solution to this. I put my head down, get a determined look on my face, make myself big, and plow. People get out of my way.

[silenus]

People use other cars as a RADAR block. They'll speed up to the car in front of them but won't overtake 'cause then they'll be the one in front that gets busted if there's a cop up ahead.

Yep. I'm always on the lookout for a large truck I can use as a shadow as I speed down the freeway.

[What Exit?]

People use other cars as a RADAR block. They'll speed up to the car in front of them but won't overtake 'cause then they'll be the one in front that gets busted if there's a cop up ahead.
That makes sense, but do they need to tailgate or can they follow at a reasonable distance to do this? It is still strange behavior. When someone tailgates me, I assume, they would like to go faster than I do. I think this is a logical assumption.

I like to go 13-14 over the speed limit as the State Troopers seem to allow this in NJ and I have a very long commute each direction. I will push it if the person in front of me is going faster, but I never tailgate the person. So far, I only have received a speeding ticket once as a following driver, I was driving a black Camaro back then, and it was a Rt. 80 speed trap. I have a good feel for what the GSP, Turnpike or Rt.195 will let me go. Rt. 195 is slower; I try not to go more then eight over the speed limit.
Hentor the Barbarian: So you have seen it in Western Penn and I have seen it in NJ & NY. I do not remember this phenomenon in California on Highway 5. I wonder what makes this common in this part of the country.

On preview: Silenus, do you tailgate a truck?

Jim

[Waenara]

I can understand that it's irritating, but even if someone does get in your way, how much time have you really lost? Why get so mad about it?Seems to me that some people just think their time is more important than everyone else's. These are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays and become enraged at others for inconveniencing them (just for being alive it seems at times). I think too many people forget that these are other human beings they're shoving out of the way.And why is your time so much more precious than everyone else's? Why barge your way through everyone when a bit more patience would make your day less stressful?I don't think my time is more precious than everyone else's. However, the amount of time wasted by slow walkers/escalator obstructors/etc... is different depending on your point of view. A delay of "only one minute" can be a much larger delay if it prevents you from getting somewhere else on time.

For example, I get off work at 4:15. I have a part-time job in the evening, and the best bus to catch leaves at 4:20. Five minutes is plenty of time to walk from my day-job office to the bus stop (through a building, across a street and maybe a 50 yard walk).

If I leave my office and have no major obstructions and just walk at my normal walking pace (quick, but not speed-walking or anything), I usually get to the bus stop with a minute or two to spare. Some delays that I encounter fairly often include such things as: I have to catch an elevator down nine floors. Often people are incredibly slow about getting on/off the elevator. Or they’ll push the button to call the elevator and then not get on. Or they get on, but then hold the door for a very long time waiting for their friend who’ll be “just a second.”
Walking through the building, large gaggles of people often block doorways, or walk five abreast very slowly.
I have to take an escalator down one floor and I like to walk down the escalator (on the left-hand side, so people can stand on the right). But some (perfectly able-bodied) people like to stand in the middle, or stand next to their friend instead of both of them standing on the right. And no, they often don’t move when you say “excuse me.”
The escalator ends at the entrance which is right at the crosswalk. The wait for the light to change so I can cross the street is quite long. At least a couple times a month I’ll just miss the light because of someone standing on the escalator, and then I need to wait an extra 60 seconds for the light to change so I can cross the street.
So when people say “these are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays…” I can kind of see their point. After all, each delay (individually) is only 20 seconds, or maybe up to a minute.

If I were driving, no big deal. I’m two or three minutes later than usual getting to my parking spot. But I don’t have a car, and when I’m catching the bus a delay of “only one or two minutes” means that I missed my bus and now I need to wait 30 minutes for the next one. I try to leave work early enough to get to the bus stop on time, but depending on what I’m doing that day I can’t always get out a minute or two early to give myself a bigger time buffer before the bus comes.

Luckily, I set my own hours for my part-time job, so it doesn’t really matter to them if I get there 30 minutes earlier or later. But it still really inconveniences me, as I have to stand around twiddling my thumbs for 30 minutes (best case scenario), or (worst case) spending 30 minutes freezing my ass off in -30C (plus windchill) Canadian winter weather.

[nashiitashii]

It's not the time factor for me, so much as my natural pace, which has to be slowed down if people won't yield. It's very difficult to walk at 1/2 of my normal speed. The other thing that is maddening is just the idea that people are so oblivious to other people. Just now, I was walking down the street and had to practically step in the gutter twice because there were groups of people walking towards me, and it never occurred to them that maybe I would like some room on the sidewalk, too. What has the world come to when a hugely pregnant person doesn't get the right-of-way? ;) That's really the bottom line for me...it's about being sensitive to other people & not just your own concerns...basic politeness.

I feel the same way, although I am not pregnant. If I have to slow down to less than my natural pace, I am likely to trip on something or accidentally step on the back of a slow person's shoe. My legs are long and I take big steps because of this; I am not built to follow at a mincing pace, and when I try, I end up screwing up worse than just trying to dart around them. I do try to politely say "excuse me" when there's three or four people walking abreast, but I often end up darting around them afterward because they failed to acknowledge my request for some more sidewalk to scoot past them. (I live in an area where the two biggest perpetrators of this method are ditzy teenage girls and elderly people who'll give me a dirty look even if I'm being polite. ::shrugs:: Not much I can do.)

When I am walking with someone, I make any attempt possible to make sure that I'm not blocking up the sidewalk that I'm on, and will get out of the way of people I can see that are passing me. I also make an effort to take up as little "center aisle" space as possible when shopping. I have rarely been afforded the same courtesy, but I still continue to try to GTFOPW when walking, shopping, or in public in general. I just wish more people would afford me the same courtesy. I also have to wonder who's raising these terribly oblivious/uncouth people who can't be bothered to take other people into consideration.

[yellowval]

Like I said, Waenara, my view is skewed by small-town living. Reading this thread makes me thankful that I live in a place where I can hop in my car and drive all the way from work to my house in three minutes flat, sometimes never even seeing another car on the street (and crossing a major highway, no less). I'll take the simple life any day. :)

Now, before anyone comes into the thread and calls me fat or whatever (frankly, I'm surprised someone hasn't already), I'd just like to say that I'm a fast walker myself.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Hentor the Barbarian: So you have seen it in Western Penn and I have seen it in NJ & NY. I do not remember this phenomenon in California on Highway 5. I wonder what makes this common in this part of the country.Most of my highway driving is on annual trips back to St. Louis, and as far as I recall, I see this type of behavior all the way across (although I haven't made enough of a close study to recall if it occurs more often out this way than over that way).

[D_Odds]

If I have to wait behind someone in line who takes a few seconds to write out a check, whatever. Getting pissed off about it isn't going to help the situation at all. If anything, a confrontation with a person I felt was inconveniencing me would probably set me back even more.Even here, there is a right (considerate) way and a wrong (inconsiderate) way. Right - checkbook out, partially filled in awaiting total, any necessary ID handy. Wrong - start looking for checkbook only after completely rung up. I personally wouldn't confront anyone over that, but if s/he makes some obnoxious joking omment to the line about check writing - well then their fair game to have intelligence called into question.

tdn, sometimes you get lucky and the sardine-can commute is worth it. My favorite was when a...well-apportioned...lady in a very low cut top sat down in front of where I was standing, reading my book (someone else had just vacated the seat). To say I was...distracted...for the rest of the trip would be an understatement. Concentrating on my book was out. As for the middle being empty, I noticed it once again this past Tuesday. I was taking a subway which passes two major commuter hubs (Penn Station and Times Square Station). I was standing comfortable in the middle, while looking at those getting on or entering after me seemingly blocked by some force field preventing them from leaving the narrow band between the opposite doors..

[Hentor the Barbarian]

As to the empty sections when the areas by the doors are filled, I had a semi-amusing experience with that on the bus last week. Typically, people standing in the aisles don't necessarily move back as far as they can (despite the signs on our buses that say "Please move to the back" and "A little further back, please" and so on). On this day, it was very crowded near the front, and people had moved back pretty far. I was standing in the aisle in the back, and there was indeed a bit more room around me. However, a guy stuck up near the front starts screaming about people needing to move back, and citing code (using actual section and subsection code numbers) about the bus driver not being able to operate the bus if people are standing on the other side of the line. Of course, there's no way to elicit more intransigence from public transportation riders than for someone in the crowd to start screaming about subsections of the code at them. That, and the fact that the bus drivers actually tend not to give a shit if you're on the wrong side of the line, at least around here.

[Iggins]

It's not the delay or lost time that is the issue here. The uber-frustration comes from constantly dealing with Obliviates (thanks for that!), and the rudeness these jackasses exhibit.

The speed limit sign should be taken as both a maximum and a SUGGESTED SPEED. If conditions are good, drive the damn speed limit!

[Anaamika]

Like I said, Waenara, my view is skewed by small-town living. Reading this thread makes me thankful that I live in a place where I can hop in my car and drive all the way from work to my house in three minutes flat, sometimes never even seeing another car on the street (and crossing a major highway, no less). I'll take the simple life any day. :)

Now, before anyone comes into the thread and calls me fat or whatever (frankly, I'm surprised someone hasn't already), I'd just like to say that I'm a fast walker myself.
Heh. I wouldn't call you fat. But your life sounds like something I would never want. I hate small-town living. Part of the reason is because I am not white, and living in small towns I have *always* been made to feel that more. I won't denounce any small towns by naming them, that's the way it is. But I want there to be plenty of ethnic diversity around me, and you just still don't get that in small-town USA.

[tdn]

tdn, sometimes you get lucky and the sardine-can commute is worth it. My favorite was when a...well-apportioned...lady in a very low cut top sat down in front of where I was standing, reading my book (someone else had just vacated the seat).
My favorite was when I was squished in between three very attractive women, and had to have my arm around one of them to hold on. I was so close I could smell her hair. And there were 5 boobies squished into me. Frottage is a crime and I wouldn't do it, but when it happens accidentally, woo hoo!

I can think of another reason why standing near the doors is something people like to do -- It's where the vertical rail is. Anywhere else and all you have to hang onto is the horizontal rail. I'm pretty tall and it's hard for me to reach sometimes. I can see that for pretty short people, the doorway is the only place to be.

[silenus]

On preview: Silenus, do you tailgate a truck?



Don't need to. A semi has a huge radar shadow. I can be back 100 yards or so, as long as the truck is between me and the Smokey on the shoulder up ahead. Getting so close the trucker can't see me in his mirrors is suicidal at best.

[E-Sabbath]

In some of the pedestrian threads I've seen, some posters have even gone so far as to say things like "I'm going that way. If you can see that I'm going that way and you don't get out of my way, I'm going to push you out of the way. And I can do it too, because I'm a big guy and if you have a problem with that then you can go fuck yourself."


That's me! I'm not a big guy, but that's my quote. (I do got a low center of gravity.) And if you're standing in front of the subway turnstile, and I'm _in_ the turnstile, and you've stopped to gawk, and there's half the naked city behind me... I'm not going to stop. I'm going to keep walking right through your stupid, hazard-causing ass. If I can walk around you, I will, but I am not going to get myself hurt so you can mosey around in bovine contentment.

Now, this doesn't hold for city streets, or random doorways, but I maintain that if you're putting me at risk, you deserve to be woken up.

And if you leave your shopping cart sideways in the lane, I will also move that for you. With a smile.

[Steve MB]

If there's no reasonable expectation that they should get out of my way — e.g., we're in a queue to buy movie tickets and the folks in front of me can't proceed until the folks in front of them are done, etc — no impatience (at least not with the folks in front of me) and no hostility.

If the people in question are impaired or incapacitated, and/or there are simply too many people in too small a space to be able to get out of my way, again no impatience and no hostility.

If, on the other hand, people are plodding their bovine stoopid slow-moving selves directly into my path despite me being in plain sight and in motion, or occupying an inappropriate bit of real estate for a nearly-motionless person to occupy (like smack dab in the middle of the stairs or one foot inside the train doors), yes, they piss me off to no end, it's selfish and inconsiderate of them. They have the right to stand still or move slowly; they bloody well don't have the right to be obstacles and interfere with other folks' freedom of motion.
Precisely. Just this week, I encountered somebody who went above and beyond the (already inexcusable) stupidity of standing in the walking lane of the Metro escalator -- he walked just far enough to see that it wasn't his train pulling into the station, and then stopped. It ought to be legal to just overrun and trample somebody who does that.

[nashiitashii]

And if you leave your shopping cart sideways in the lane, I will also move that for you. With a smile.

I've done that on several occasions, and also with a friendly grin. I'm lucky I'm female, though, as I rarely discriminate between an unattended cart sans child and an unattended cart with child occupying the small basket/child seat area. If I were male, I'm sure I would've been read the riot act by some oblivious but paranoid mother by now, as I've been informed by male friends that it is verboten territory for them.

[Flutterby]

I can think of another reason why standing near the doors is something people like to do -- It's where the vertical rail is. Anywhere else and all you have to hang onto is the horizontal rail. I'm pretty tall and it's hard for me to reach sometimes. I can see that for pretty short people, the doorway is the only place to be.

Here the horizontal rails are shorter (I'm tall, I usually hit my head on them) and they have some vertical one spaced throughout the bus.

What really pisses me off is this one guy every morning. It's a regular crowd, the bus isn't that packed but there are usually no more seats when I get on (which isn't a problem for me since this is an express and I get off in 2 stops). This one guy, he gets on right at the front of the group of people and stops just before the walkway widens slightly. I have to push past him every damn morning so I can let the others on behind me (who also push past him to the very empty middle of the bus).

Not sure why he can't get on near the back of the group instead of having to be the first person on. It would make too much sense.

I've also taken to just walking straight out the LRT doors and if anyone is pushing in, too bad. I've also stood stalemate with people. The train isn't going anywhere until all the doors close, so I don't see what the hurry to get on is, especially when it means I can't get off.

Mostly it doesn't bother me, I just go around or slow down.. but if I'm running for the bus and you do something stupid like stop right in front of me on the flight of stairs we were both going down at a fast clip (like the girl this morning).. I'm running the fuck over you because you are not making me miss my bus*.

*Okay, I didn't run over her but it was damn close since one second we were both moving fast and the next she was turning around. I was just able to zip around her without hitting her or anyone else.

[What Exit?]

Don't need to. A semi has a huge radar shadow. I can be back 100 yards or so, as long as the truck is between me and the Smokey on the shoulder up ahead. Getting so close the trucker can't see me in his mirrors is suicidal at best.
Glad to hear it. I like you, I would hate to see you end up another statistic. I saw one idiot who was tailgating a truck on the NJ Turnpike, end up under the trailer when the truck had to stop for a sudden NJ Turnpike slowdown. It was pretty horrifying to see and I doubt the driver survived. I very much hope there were no passengers. I can think of few things dumber than tailgating a truck.

Jim

[D_Odds]

Precisely. Just this week, I encountered somebody who went above and beyond the (already inexcusable) stupidity of standing in the walking lane of the Metro escalator -- he walked just far enough to see that it wasn't his train pulling into the station, and then stopped. It ought to be legal to just overrun and trample somebody who does that.It isn't? :confused:

Oops. :eek:

[tdn]

Here the horizontal rails are shorter (I'm tall, I usually hit my head on them) and they have some vertical one spaced throughout the bus.
Thinking about it here, they aren't actually that tall. Maybe about 6 feet, so I hit my head too. The problem is that if you aren't standing directly next to one, you have to really reach. Especially if there are seats under it, or if conditions are really crowded. I've seen some shorter people just give up and rely on balance and human cushions.

[Pleonast]

While driving in a city, most people are in a hurry to get to...wait at the next red light. And to accelerate just to get to the next red light faster not only unnecessarily wears down your engine, but your brakes as wear.You're right, of course.

Except, if you're multiple cars back from the slow-poke, you may not even get through the current light. This is especially true for left turns. The slow-poke dawdles and delays himself 10 seconds, preventing the last few cars from getting through the light. Delaying them a whole another cycle, usually a minute or longer. Now add that up over a whole commute...

I don't except other drivers to gun it from one light to the next, but please, if there's traffic clustering up behind you, you are the problem.

[Pleonast]

Oh, and while I'm thinking about: when you get off an escalator, move out of the way. don't stand there and gawk trying to figure out which way you want to go. Because, you know, people are being mechanically conveyed to the spot you're occupying. It's not like they can stop coming.

Twice, I've seen near misses of multi-person pile ups. An old, slow woman who should've used the used the elevator. And a gaggle of teens trying to make a group decision of where to go.

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

They have the right to stand still or move slowly; they bloody well don't have the right to be obstacles and interfere with other folks' freedom of motion.
Um. This is exactly what I mean about the misuse of 'rights'. It's ludicrous to go on about this as a matter of 'rights'. Ever think that these horrible wastes of air might have pain in legs or back? Might have heart trouble and have to walk slowly? Might be exhausted? Suffering from some disease? Preoccupied?

No. First assumption is to decide that these 'offenders' are malicously intending to cause harm. :rolleyes: This is not specifically directed to you, AH, but this goes for everyone who gets their panties in a twist over this.

I can understand that it's irritating, but even if someone does get in your way, how much time have you really lost? Why get so mad about it?
Exactly! No wonder there's so much high blood pressure and heart disease! How insane is it to lose your cool because you can't direct the rest of the world to behave exactly as you'd have them behave? You won't change the world; you'll just blow out your own BP numbers. Ridiculous, that.
And not to go off on a tangent, but does anyone think this is a predominantly US thing? I don't tend to see the same inchoate fury from non-American dopers, or is that just because there are more US dopers in general?
I don't think people in the US understand how aggressive their words and actions are. The macho, testosterone, in-your-face attitude is almost palpable some places - and that goes for females as well as males. And of course this doesn't mean everyone so don't be an idiot and rant about that. It does, however, mean that the social culture is definitely different and much has to do with people being, IMHO, oversensitive to their 'rights' and anyone who might come within a mile of 'violating' them.

I guess maybe I just don't let those kinds of things get to me. If I have to slow down for a bit until it's convenient for me to go around someone, so be it. If I have to wait behind someone in line who takes a few seconds to write out a check, whatever. Getting pissed off about it isn't going to help the situation at all. If anything, a confrontation with a person I felt was inconveniencing me would probably set me back even more. Why cause myself undue stress?
You're quite right. Most of the stuff people here rave about falls squarely into the category of 'small stuff' that it's much better for one to not sweat.

[Sarahfeena]

Exactly! No wonder there's so much high blood pressure and heart disease! How insane is it to lose your cool because you can't direct the rest of the world to behave exactly as you'd have them behave? You won't change the world; you'll just blow out your own BP numbers. Ridiculous, that. It's not so much about getting people to behave the way I want them to behave...it's being able to behave the way I want to behave. I couldn't care less if people want to or have to go at a turtle's pace...I just think that if everyone (fast movers and slow movers) would be a little considerate of each other, then NO ONE would have to blow out their BP numbers.

[D_Odds]

Um. This is exactly what I mean about the misuse of 'rights'. It's ludicrous to go on about this as a matter of 'rights'. Ever think that these horrible wastes of air might have pain in legs or back? Might have heart trouble and have to walk slowly? Might be exhausted? Suffering from some disease? Preoccupied?

No. First assumption is to decide that these 'offenders' are malicously intending to cause harm. :rolleyes: This is not specifically directed to you, AH, but this goes for everyone who gets their panties in a twist over this.As one of the "macho, testosterone, in-your-face attitude" types, I see you've completely missed the point. I have no problem with one's pace as a pedestrian until they become so oblivious to the problems one might be causing. And I don't recall anyone attributing malicious intent - unless you consider lack of consideration of others malicious. Given your piss-poor reading comprehension, I suggest you take those rolleyes and place them where they can give you a colonoscopy.You're quite right. Most of the stuff people here rave about falls squarely into the category of 'small stuff' that it's much better for one to not sweat.The all-too-common occurrences of someone blocking the end of an escalator, or a revolving door, or a subway/bus door preventing entry and egress, are not small things. They are hazards, and the cluelessness involved can get people hurt.

[tdn]

So Quiddity Glomfuster, what you're saying is that people block the way because the have heart disease, causing the blood pressure of others to go up, which will cause them heart disease, making them block the ways of others, causing their blood pressure to go up, which will cause...

Seriously, I don't think the testosterone and blood pressure are nearly as bad as you describe. I get a little annoyed when someone blocks my way, but I don't let it ruin my day. If someone engages in dumbassery, I just give an annoyed sigh, which is involuntary.

Here's a good one from yesterday. There's a glass door next to a cafeteria. When the door is open, you can look through it and through a window to see into the caf. Why anyone would do this is beyond me, but stay with me here. So anyway, I was coming in, and saw that someone was coming out. As usual, I pulled the door open and held it open, so the other person could walk out. I then planned on walking in and letting the door shut behind me. But no, this guy didn't walk out. He stepped out onto the landing, turned left, and enjoyed the unspectacular view described above. Right in front of me, while I was still holding the door open for him. I suppose I could have gone around him and let the door go to close on his face. Instead, I sood there in stunned silence while I tried to puzzle over his bizarre action. After a few seconds, he realized that he was being a putz, and apologized and moved on. I'm still puzzled, though.

[Slypork]

I ranted about this from the other perspective. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=405234) You want to stroll along and enjoy the scenery or talk on your cell phone, then be considerate and move to the right. Don’t dawdle in the middle of the flow of pedestrians. Don’t stop to have a conversation with your friends. Don’t pause in the middle of the sidewalk to gawk at the store windows.
Same for when you are driving. If you are going the speed limit or less, then move to the right lane. If you are trying to qualify for the pole position, go to the left lanes.
There’s an old joke: What do you call a driver doing the speed limit in the left lane?
A hood ornament. If I’m maintaining a speed to keep up with the flow of traffic and then have to slam on my brakes or swerve to avoid Grandma Moses doing 15 under the limit in the left lane, then she is the hazard, not me.
Consideration is a two way street. I don’t speed in the right lane, I don’t run on the right. If someone says, “Excuse me,” I step aside and I always say it to the roadblocks in front of me. If you don’t want me to walk up your back, then move aside so the rest of humanity can pass you by. Slow and steady might win the race, but it’s going to piss off a lot of people along the way.

[Frank]

Most of the stuff people here rave about falls squarely into the category of 'small stuff' that it's much better for one to not sweat.
Quiddity Glomfuster
Improving the BBQ Pit since 2006
(It's taking longer than she thought)

[Uncommon Sense]

Exactly! No wonder there's so much high blood pressure and heart disease! How insane is it to lose your cool because you can't direct the rest of the world to behave exactly as you'd have them behave? You won't change the world; you'll just blow out your own BP numbers. Ridiculous, that.


You've missed the point. Actually you made the point for us but you have it reversed.
The slow people and the lane hoggers are causing the rest of the world to behave as they are - by not allowing someone else to overtake them. All we're asking for is for the slower people on this planet and for the clueless to open your eyes and be alert for others who may not have as much dick-around time as yourself.

[Anaamika]

:dubious: Really, Quiddity, I would think you were almost spoiling for a fight, considering how far you missed the point by. There's a word for that, you know.

[yellowval]

Heh. I wouldn't call you fat. But your life sounds like something I would never want. I hate small-town living. Part of the reason is because I am not white, and living in small towns I have *always* been made to feel that more. I won't denounce any small towns by naming them, that's the way it is. But I want there to be plenty of ethnic diversity around me, and you just still don't get that in small-town USA.
Thanks. ;) When I wrote that I was thinking back to the escalator thread from awhile back.

Sorry to hear about your bad small-town experiences. I've always lived in small towns and don't know anything else (I'm also as white as it gets). I think as far as small towns go, mine is probably more ethnically diverse than some. We have a large population of Hmong immigrants and a significant number of Hispanic people who live here. The regional hub just 20 miles from me has a large Somali population. So, we're not all white, Norwegian Lutherans. Yah, sure, you betcha.

[Sarahfeena]

You've missed the point. Actually you made the point for us but you have it reversed.
The slow people and the lane hoggers are causing the rest of the world to behave as they are - by not allowing someone else to overtake them. All we're asking for is for the slower people on this planet and for the clueless to open your eyes and be alert for others who may not have as much dick-around time as yourself. This is what I was trying to say, but you said it better. If you are impeding someone else's progress, you are the one forcing behavior on others. By going fast, I can't stop you from going slow, but from going slow, you sure can stop me from going fast.

[Frank]

So, we're not all white, Norwegian Lutherans. Yah, sure, you betcha.
I'll bet that even the Hmong bring tuna noodle casserole to the potluck. :p

[yellowval]

It's hot dish, Frank. Get it straight. :D

[Anaamika]

Thanks. ;) When I wrote that I was thinking back to the escalator thread from awhile back.

Sorry to hear about your bad small-town experiences. I've always lived in small towns and don't know anything else (I'm also as white as it gets). I think as far as small towns go, mine is probably more ethnically diverse than some. We have a large population of Hmong immigrants and a significant number of Hispanic people who live here. The regional hub just 20 miles from me has a large Somali population. So, we're not all white, Norwegian Lutherans. Yah, sure, you betcha.
But that's not whatt I want.

I want ethnically diverse. Which means - not two or three small diverse areas, but for everyone in the area to be open-minded and used to hitting an Indian restaurant, or going to the Chinese New Year parade, and not thinking about it twice.

Sorry, I'm in a rush, but I meant to add more. Perhaps later!

[Uncommon Sense]

I love it when you're right! Then I can pass you on the left.

New bumper sticker time.

[D_Odds]

But that's not whatt I want.

I want ethnically diverse. Which means - not two or three small diverse areas, but for everyone in the area to be open-minded and used to hitting an Indian restaurant, or going to the Chinese New Year parade, and not thinking about it twice.

Sorry, I'm in a rush, but I meant to add more. Perhaps later!
Come to Queens, the most ethnically diverse county in the US and perhaps the World. Nearly every block is a mini-UN.

[MelCthefirst]

Agree with OP - and all you impatient people had better learn to deal with it as our population is aging and the elderly do not move fast!

[D_Odds]

The elderly generally aren't the problem. They tend to travel at times when moving around them is much easier, and if I can move around you, then you are not being inconsiderate.

There seems to be a mistaken impression that slow moving people are evil beings to us fast moving people. I haven't seen one of us speedsters say that. What I have heard is that people who are inconsiderate or oblivious are a problem. 2 slow walkers walking down a sidewalk able to handle 4 abreast - not a problem. Increase the number to 5 standing abreast, and then the issue isn't the faster walker, it is the slow walkers total cluelessness to the choke point they are causing.

[hajario]

There seems to be a mistaken impression that slow moving people are evil beings to us fast moving people. I haven't seen one of us speedsters say that.

This point has been made over and over but clearly some people are too slow to get the fucking point. I wish that they'd stay out of the way and quit clogging up the thread.

[Lust4Life]

Seems to me that some people just think their time is more important than everyone else's. These are the people who feel they are inconvenienced greatly by 20 second delays and become enraged at others for inconveniencing them .

Firstly the time sense of people who are so oblivious of others that they are not even aware that they are being a pest is not usually very accurate.
But Ive only been here 20 seconds ,um no you were only here for 20 seconds50 seconds ago.

But lets be generous and assume that it IS only 20 secs.
You have to catch a bus ,ferry or train thats on a schedule,if there are several ignorant people who each hold you up for 20 secs. and you miss the service by only 20 secs. then youve missed it,no ifs or buts .So what times the next one?15 mins ?an hour ?5 hours? Or is it the last service of the day?

You're going to work and you have to clock in or badge in and the exact time of your entry is shown.
20 secs.late?Its not too serious but can you be punctual from now on?
Second time ,I did mention to you about punctuality before.
And then its 15 mins pay deduction .....and a warning.
Then its suspension and then so on down the line.

Likewise if you're in a traffic queue at a red light.
Driver of the first car,"oh for gods sake I only delayed 20secs cos I was changing the C.D."They get so excited dont they?
But the second car,20 secs plus its own reaction time .
Third ditto
The further down the queue the greater the cumulative time.
And then the lights change and you have to wait through the entire sequence AGAIN,and if you have yet another driver in front of you with the same "who gives a fuck"attitude you may well have another full sequence or more ahead of you.

The fact that this poster thinks that people are only rushing because they're impatient or self important demonstrates that they have very little idea of the real world .Im curious to know what job you have that allows you to basically not worry about being on time ?
Thats of course if you actually have a job in the first place?

And finally ,yes they are human beings that you are shoving out of the way.
But if they displayed the same same sensitivity to other peoples lives that they seem to expect as a right for themselves then they wouldn't be blocking off everyone else anyway.

[UncleRojelio]

Sorry I'm late. As a courtesy, the next time you pit me, please let me know.

Yeah, if you are on the road and not actively focusing all of your attention on getting where you are going -- GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY! Roads are not for gawking, sightseeing, or talking on your cellphone. If you need to do any of that crap, park your car and, by all means, be my guest. Roads are for driving people. By driving I mean actively trying to get from point A to point B with all possible haste.

I have a policy in the supermarket. The wheels on the cart should never come to a compete stop. If I can't rake what I need off the shelf as I whiz by, I didn't really need it in the first place. Please do not get in my way at the supermarket.

Thank you. That is all.

[Licentious Ectomorph]

WRT people getting off the subway allegedly having priority over people getting on:

I have no experience with any subway or metro system other than DC's. But I will say that here, if you wait for people to get off the train before you get on...you will not get on. Any train. Ever.

The doors are timed. The driver has no control over them. And they're not like elevator doors that open if you stick an arm in. When they close, they close, and there's not a big window of opportunity. People getting on have to push past the people getting off, and vice versa. Everyone who's ridden the Metro more than once knows this, and it's just how it's done.

[Flutterby]

The doors are timed. The driver has no control over them. And they're not like elevator doors that open if you stick an arm in. When they close, they close, and there's not a big window of opportunity. People getting on have to push past the people getting off, and vice versa. Everyone who's ridden the Metro more than once knows this, and it's just how it's done.

Isn't that a hazard? The doors not opening if you put your arm in them I mean.

The doors here will stay open as long as someone is breaking the laser thing at the bottom, and the doors will pop open if there is some sort of obstruction. This does result in people holding the doors, or the doors not shutting if there is too many people.

It also allows me to stare down people who try to shove into the inch or two between me and the bar down the middle of the door.