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lawoot
10-05-2000, 09:14 PM
Has anyone else noticed a trend in his later books, where he seems to be focusing on the 'sexual coming out' of his teen characters, then when they've 'matured', he moves on to younger characters again, and restarts the cycle?

Also, in the last book of the 'Incarnations of Immortality' series (And Eternity)he has a character that is 50 years old lusting after a 16 year old...and he paints it as a 'loving, normal' relationship, then sends the young girl into limbo, where she stays for four days, but conveniently returns to Earth two YEARS later, so that th old guy can legally have his 'nymphette', without 'breaking the law'.

Sorry about the pseudo-rant, this thing has been bugging me for years.

Sue Duhnym
10-05-2000, 09:37 PM
Piers Anthony actually has written a least "erotic novel" that I know of.

Pretty steamy too, I wish I could remember the name of it.

Una Persson
10-05-2000, 09:37 PM
It has always seemed to me that there is a strong bit of pedophilia involving young girls in Anthony's "works". I read the first 500 or so Xanth books, but finally had to quit at "The Color of Her Panties" simply because I refused to be seen paying for a book of that name with pre-pubescent characters displayed in the cover art.

I guess with Amazon I could order it safely, but I just don't want to.

GuanoLad
10-05-2000, 09:39 PM
Piers Anthony is just weird. He's so methodical, it's creepy!

I used to like him, but after a while I started to realise how boring his stuff tends to be. Predictable in style, if not plot.

Sue Duhnym
10-05-2000, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Sue Duhnym
a least "erotic novel" that I know of.


At least one is what I meant.

Also, I think he's trying to appeal to his audience in a sense. The "Xanth" series, for instance, really seems geared towards teenages (though there are some pretty sly puns they wouldn't understand, at least in the earlier books, now it's just mass-produced dreck, IMO).

I got the impression that "The Incarnations of Immortality" series was for a more mature audience.

TripleAnt
10-05-2000, 09:49 PM
I remember when I was younger, I bought "The Color of Her Panties" for my brother for his birthday and I told a friend what I got him and she was like "what kind of book is it" and without second thought, I said that it was a fantasy book, but then had to say it wasn't THAT kind of fantasy book...hehehe

I read the first few Xanth series books and found them to be kind of interesting, but I never really got into his books too much to know whether they were all the same or not. On a side note, didn't he also write "Total Recall"?

Sue Duhnym
10-05-2000, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Sue Duhnym
Pretty steamy too, I wish I could remember the name of it.

I love Google.

It's called "Pornucopia" and BN.com doesn't stock it. It looks as if you can order it through Amazon (4-6 weeks)though and they have a couple of reader reviews here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0848815947/qid=970800806/sr=1-1/104-4288483-1127115

Biggirl
10-05-2000, 09:59 PM
Yes, I did notice that about his Xanth series (The Color of Her Panties was the last one I read), but I think he is writing for the audience in this series.

I wish he'd write more Adept books.

Lamia
10-05-2000, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by lawoot
Has anyone else noticed a trend in his later books, where he seems to be focusing on the 'sexual coming out' of his teen characters, then when they've 'matured', he moves on to younger characters again, and restarts the cycle?

Also, in the last book of the 'Incarnations of Immortality' series (And Eternity)he has a character that is 50 years old lusting after a 16 year old...and he paints it as a 'loving, normal' relationship, then sends the young girl into limbo, where she stays for four days, but conveniently returns to Earth two YEARS later, so that th old guy can legally have his 'nymphette', without 'breaking the law'.

Sorry about the pseudo-rant, this thing has been bugging me for years.

I read a few of Anthony's books while I was in my early teens, but vowed to stay away from everything he's ever written after looking at And Eternity... and finding the plot thread described above. I thought it was especially troubling that part of the justification offered for this relationship was the fact that the girl in question wasn't an untouched virgin. Why wasn't she an untouched virgin? Because her stepfather had raped her! So apparently it's okay for old men to have sex with adolescent girls provided the girl in question has already been molested by another old man.

But the worst part of the whole thing was that the reason the book was sitting around where I could look at it was because my little sister was reading it. I didn't try to stop her from finishing it, but I did tell her why the book bothered me.

Jophiel
10-06-2000, 12:23 AM
Man, Piers has been creeping me out big time for years. I got to Man from Mundania before the Xanth thing started getting old for me (I think I was 19 or so at the time). Anyway, I noticed a disturbing interest in young girls' undergarments even then. His 'horror' work, Firefly, has a rape scene which gave me the slight heebiejeebies as well (though at least the raped character was an adult - not much better but we're talking 12yr old's panties here). Anyway, I stopped reading the Xanth stuff because it got tiresome and favorite characters were pulled out of the rotation quickly in the rapid-fire reproduction world of Xanth. I read all of the Incarnations books (although those got laughable as well. The Incarnations are more inbred by the end than your average lost Appalachian mountian village) but had forgotten about the girl in And Eternity. Very creepy.

Dijon Warlock
10-06-2000, 12:28 AM
I think it's an issue that he believes (at least intellectually, if not from personal interest) society has very irrational view over. There's been a bit of discussion on the subject over in my very first GD thread. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=41049) The "erotic novel" I thought Sue was referring to was Firefly. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380759500/qid=970809626/sr=1-37/102-2535175-4848948) It contains a chapter depicting a man getting sexually involved with a five year old, at the five year old's insistence. Anthony got a lot of static for it, by people accusing him of "justifying child abuse". The point he was trying to make (and he goes into this a bit in an afterword) was that relationships like this aren't necessarily inherently abusive, and that often society's response is far more predatory and harmful than the relationship itself. Just trying to get people to think. You know how that goes.

Sublight
10-06-2000, 02:55 AM
I gave up on Mr. A (and on SF in general, for a while) after reading And Eternity. I was so pissed at myself for wasting my time and money on that piece of crap.

Anyway, I guess all the sex was probably the reason I liked his stuff when I was in my early teens. After all, I didn't have an internet connection back then, and Playboy was too difficult hide, but Piers Anthony could be read while my parents were still in the room! :D

If you're looking for some racy stuff, you could also try his Tarot series. Kinda scatalogical, though.

The Color of Her Panties. Good Dao, is that actually the title of one of his books?:eek: Maybe I should have gotten more into the Xanth series.

--sublight.

CalMeacham
10-06-2000, 07:36 AM
TripleAnt:

"Didn't (Piers Anthony) write Total Recall?"

Nope. Not even close.

Total Recall had a screenplay by the ubiquitous Dan O'Bannon. (O'Bannon has written or co-written a LOT of sf movies, of varying quality (including Alien). He also did special effects for Star Wars, acted in Dark Star, and directed Return of the Living Dead.) It is nominally based on "We Can Remember it for you Wholesale" by the very weird Philip K. Dick, but they exhaust the Dick material in the first twenty minutes or so. I've always felt that the movie is really based on Robert Sheckley's "The Status Civilization" (gunfights, people with memory wipes who seek out the mutants on the settled world, because some of them have the ability to dig the past out of your own mind, arena situations, the hero turns out to be his own enemy, etc.), with a bit of Edgar Rice Burroughs thrown in at the end (An Oxygen Factory on Mars???!)Sheckley has to be the most ripped-off sf writer ever. Compare "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" to Sheckley's "Dimension of Miracles", or "The Running Man" to Sheckley's "The Prize of Peril". There have been a few adaptations of Sheckley's own work, but these have been uniformly bad ("Condorman" and "Freejack" chief among them.)

I don't see a Piers Anthony connection anywhere.

RealityChuck
10-06-2000, 08:07 AM
Anthony wrote the novelization of "Total Recall."

I haven't read much Anthony but Heinlein has a similar pseudo-semi-pedophilia theme in "The Door Into Summer." Of course, when Heinlein was writing, such things were not noticed and I doubt he knew the subtext he was creating. Anthony was writing late enough so that he should have noticed.

CalMeacham
10-06-2000, 08:25 AM
Reality Chuck:

Thanks. Sorry I missed the obvious. Do you mean there's a sf movie novelization that's NOT by Alan Dean Foster?

doc_miller
10-06-2000, 08:27 AM
Anthony has made a lasting contribution, in my social circle at least. When a series starts off entertaining, but quickly drops off in quality, we say it follows a "Xanth curve"

Scott

dal_timgar
10-06-2000, 08:37 AM
tried reading at least 2 of his books, chthon was 1 i think. never got close to finishing.

Dal Timgar

fierra
10-06-2000, 08:43 AM
If you think firefly is bad try chthon, phthor etc. Yeack! Also creepy is the Mode series, very disturbing - main them e seems to be a munchausens/suicide/lack of selfworth trend. He says in the afterword it is to reassure people that are like that that there is something better out there, but it is hugely depressing to read...

That said, I like most of his books, even the xanth ones.

I don't remember the bit about her being a virgin as a justification in "And Eternity", but the 16 bit didn't bother me anyway because 16 is the legal age in the UK anyway (except for homosexual relationships, but that is SO definitely a GD topic, I'm not even gonna go there!) (the age gap is hugely extreme though, any refernces he makes to x y or z, you can virtually guarantee that she'll never have heard of them). Maybe the point that he was trying to make is how silly legal things can be, yes children need protection from others and to a lesser extent from themselves, but if someone isn't mature enough etc to have sex one day, but they are 16 or 18 the next, what? A maturity fairy appears in the night & sprinkles some commonsense & wisdom of age dust on them?

Cal - Terry Brooks did the novelisation of Phantom Menace. I still can't decide which is worse! They ran out the philip k dick stuff in nothing flat because it was a short story. They have a nasty habit of basing films on short stories and not having enough plot to carry the film (take lawnmower man for instance).
Have you read sheckley's hunter:killer or his status civilisation?

CalMeacham
10-06-2000, 09:29 AM
Fiera:

Read my post again, a little more carefully.

I used to be a big Sheckley fan (his books were easier to get than other sf when I was a kid),but he got weirder with age. Haven't read hunter:killer, but I've read oa lot of his other stuff. You could make good movies out of his 1950s stuff, but even when they nominally based something on his stuff (Freejack is supposed to be based on Immortality, Inc. = Immortality Delivered)it turns out awful.

fierra
10-06-2000, 10:56 AM
Cal:
That tends to happen with good books - usually they go for the special effects and forget any ideas behind them in the first place. Even, if thye don't forget the ideas, usually some idiot insists on a happy ending because it sells better (tell that to the opera nuts!), or they cut some of the really important bits because it makes the film too long...

When you say reread your original, which bit did you mean? I assumed you were being sarcy about ADF, but felt like whinging about Terry "yawn" Brooks' adaptation of Phantom Menace anyway. It's weird as I used to like the early shanara series & the magic kingdom stuff, but most of his more recent stuff seems to twice as long as the story/his writing ability will bear...but I could just be getting cranky in my old age!

CalMeacham
10-06-2000, 11:00 AM
Fierra:

I only meant that you asked whether I'd read "Status Civilization", and it's pretty clear from my post that I had.

SC was one of the first sf books I ever read, so I didn't realize at first how intentionally hokey Sheckley was being. Now I read it with a more educated palate.


As far as Piers Anthony goes, I liked "A Spell for Chameleon", but just haven't been able to get into his other Xanth books. I liked some of his short stories.

fierra
10-06-2000, 11:37 AM
Sorry, Cal, brain blitzed. I should have said hunter/victim for one thing & I meant to say immortality inc, (which I already know the answer too, now!). New rule, never post on a friday afternoon!

Some of the shorts are good, although, he has developed some of them into full lengths later, which can either be boring or spoil the original one, orhave lack ofmaterial. It's worked when Anne MacCaffery (sp?) has done it, but not all of Anthony's and not all of the Asimov ones that were done in collaboration or after he died. But it's a damn sight easier to pick wholes in something than do it yourself!

cmkeller
10-06-2000, 12:05 PM
It's scary how, diverse though this board is, the intelligence level for fantasy literature is consistent.

Same exact thing happened to me. I gave up on Xanth after Color of Her Panties...and even sold my whole set to some guy from Montreal. Didn't buy anything of his after And Eternity...though, truth to tell, I probably would have given up before that if I hadn't known the series had an ending and wanted to know how it ends.

To me, he just got way too obsessed with sex (the first two Incarnations books had almost none of it, the third, my favorite of the series had some but it was very tightly bound to the plot, and after that, the sex seemed to be thrown in gartuitously), and, in Xanth, he took what were originally funny jokes too far. The panties stuff, the stork stuff...he didn't just beat a dead horse, he beat the corpse until it disintegrated into mush and beat the mush until it was liquid.

I haven't read a new Anthony book since, although I occasionally re-read the Incarnations series, especially the first three books.

Sunshine
10-06-2000, 12:49 PM
I like a lot of Piers Anthony and have read almost everything of his. I have definitely found that he leans toward the creepy side. Not just in his writing but as a person in general (this mostly from reading his Author's Notes at the end of all his books).

Anyway, even though I find him slightly creepy, I enjoy his stories (yes, even Xanth--I've read them all. At this point, they're like a trashy romance novel--fluff to read to pass the time and not really expect to get much out of) and I think he puts the creepy stuff in to make people think. Not necessarily to change people's minds and decide that pedophilia or whatever is ok, but just to make them think about subjects they normally tend to avoid considering at all. (I know I don't think about pedophiles if I can help it. Maybe it would do everybody some good to think about the unpleasant stuff once in a while).

Lamia
10-06-2000, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by fierra

I don't remember the bit about her being a virgin as a justification in "And Eternity",


That's not being a virgin. That's probably what you meant to type, but I want to avoid any confusion here.


but the 16 bit didn't bother me anyway because 16 is the legal age in the UK anyway (except for homosexual relationships, but that is SO definitely a GD topic, I'm not even gonna go there!) (the age gap is hugely extreme though, any refernces he makes to x y or z, you can virtually guarantee that she'll never have heard of them).
Maybe the point that he was trying to make is how silly legal things can be, yes children need protection from others and to a lesser extent from themselves, but if someone isn't mature enough etc to have sex one day, but they are 16 or 18 the next, what? A maturity fairy appears in the night & sprinkles some commonsense & wisdom of age dust on them?


The age of consent in some parts of the US is also 16, and I believe in a few states it's even younger. While the huge age gap between the girl and the man was pretty creepy I don't think it would have bothered me so much if the girl were portrayed as a character who was emotionally and intellectually mature and had experienced satisfying (or at least non-abusive) sexual relationships before. But this was not the case. This was a girl who ran away from home after being raped by her stepfather and ended up a prostitute and a drug addict. I can believe that such a girl would develop a crush on the first older man who showed her any kindness and that she would be willing to sleep with him, but I do not for one moment buy the idea that such a relationship would do an abused and emotionally fragile adolescent any good at all.

Edwardina
10-06-2000, 01:25 PM
Has anyone read his "Chaining the Lady"? That had some weird sexual/gender stuff in it. I think that was the first book of his I ever read, and it was so weird, I didn't even realize it was the same guy when I happened upon "Chameleon", which was delightful.

I have also read that he brings up the creepy stuff on purpose, purportedly to make everyone think. Doesn't make it any less creepy. I stopped reading his books after "Firefly."

Badtz Maru
10-06-2000, 02:51 PM
Have any of you read his early short, 'In the Barn'? This guy travels to an alternate universe where all mammals except man have been wiped out, and spends a day working in a dairy farm. The 'cows' are human women who have their hands bound and are put in sensory deprivation chambers at birth for a couple of years (so they grow up unintelligent and without opposable thumbs) and after that are treated pretty much how we treat livestock. The main character attempts to have sex with a pubescent 'cow' who he is supposed to take to a bull for it's first breeding, but is unable to achieve orgasm because her vagina is too loose ('He could not plumb the well to it's depth, nor gain purchase at the rim'). Pretty sick stuff.

I DID like Cthon, Orn, and Omnivore, but his later stuff has this combination of immaturity and perversion that I can't get into.

Cantrip
10-06-2000, 05:12 PM
I read "Firefly" and didn't like it much, although I did enjoy the afterword. I read the first five or six Xanth novels, then got tired of them. Same with the Adept series - I thought the same themes were coming up, and there was little character (as opposed to plot) development (compare the Matthew Scudder series by Lawrence Block) in either of those series. I got really tired of the Incarnations series after the fourth one (either Chronos or Fate?), and never read either the sixth or seventh installment, although I still think "On a Pale Horse" is one of the more thought-provoking books I've read.

One book of his I enjoyed was "But What of Earth?", in which the text is heavily annotated with his comments regarding what various copyeditors did to it during the editing process. He gives the text as written, then derides the copyeds for their idiocy. Man does he come across as a curmudgeonly bastard, and his descriptions of the women copyeds are less than flattering. I understand he wants to make people think about societal taboos and all, but he still comes across as a bit misogynistic, IMHO.

Adam

Badtz Maru
10-06-2000, 05:34 PM
I read 'But What of Earth?' as well. He admits it's probably his worst novel. I agree that the editors seemed to take more liberties with the story than they should, but fact is, it probably shouldn't have been published, period.

Cervaise
10-06-2000, 06:53 PM
Amazing that we've gotten this far in a Piers Anthony thread and nobody's mentioned the Bio of a Space Tyrant series. One of his few attempts at really "serious" or "adult" science fiction, and it's just as ridiculous as everything else. That's when I finally gave up on the man, and it's been like ten or twelve years since I've even touched, let alone opened, another of his books.

sliv
10-06-2000, 06:56 PM
I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned "Bio of Space Tyrant" yet. That was pretty much the last thing of his I read, as it lay bare all of his rather icky distractions, with the addition of incest, which I don't remember appearing anywhere else in his body of work. I basically forced myself to finish it, and said, "there, i don't have to read anything else of his ever again". I did rather enjoy, "For the Love of Evil", but not very much.

oldscratch
10-06-2000, 07:50 PM
My my my. This thread brings back memories. is stuff was entertaining when I was 12, but then, yech. It's the same fucking story over and over. Same thing happened to me and David Eddings (aolthough he is miles better than Anthony). The whole Split Infinity series started to get to me after a while. Too much gratutitous nudity and sex, I mean really, what was the point of it after a while. Simply acting out adolesent fantashies, great for adolesent readers, not so hot for everyone else. Bio was in equally poor taste, rape scenes? Being arroused by seing your family raped? yech again.

FYI Did you know he wrote a book called Pornucopia?

Also on a last note. Has anyone read BattleCircle? i've found it the most mature and interesting of his work. I read it a while ago, and it wasn't nearly as off-putting as his later stuff. Of course it was writen in the 80's.

DrFidelius
10-06-2000, 08:01 PM
um oldscratch, methinks you are off by a decade on BattleCircle. My copy of _Sos the Rope_ says it was published in 1968.

Oh, and I gave up on Xanth with _Golem in the Gears_. I gave up on Incarnations with the third book (which I could not finish).

oldscratch
10-06-2000, 08:07 PM
Ooops. Thanks Dr. that's what I get for remembering a book from his, not remembering the title, then searching through Amazon to find the title, then going and taking the publishing date from a review. Ahem. Anyway, I stand corrected. Anthony's best work occured before 1970, after that it was all downhill.

DKW
10-06-2000, 10:59 PM
Wasn't really into fantasy or science fiction growing up, but I did finish the entire Incarnations series, and I think I read some of two Xanth books (A Spell for Chameleon was one). The first one I read was For Love of Evil, which belonged to my sister, which to me was a very compelling story, and from there I was hooked.

I think what kept me going was that he was refreshingly unconventional, not afraid to take chances (from some of the posts here, THAT much is obvious), and he tackled a lot of sensitive issues with far more honesty and common sense than nearly anyone else I'd heard of. Of course, there may have been others...I admit that that's a genre I haven't really been into, but as a teen I took whatever I could get.

A lot of material was pretty disturbing, but understand that the Incarnations have a duty to deal with a lot of very mean, callous, or outright evil people, as well as bizarre forces beyond anyone's reckoning. Time warping, bizarre relationships, inconvenient shapechanging etc. were just part of the game plan.

I found And Eternity satisfying, if not spectacular. He probably did use up all his great ideas by then, but the story was still compelling enough to keep me through to the end.

Creepy? Maybe. Some writers are like that...almost comes with the territory. I don't even want to speculate what keeps V.C. Andrews going.

Sue Duhnym
10-07-2000, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by DKW
I don't even want to speculate what keeps V.C. Andrews going.

IIRC, VC Andrews is dead. Some other author(s) just write the books in her "style". I could be wrong as I'm not a fan of that crap.

Flutterby
10-07-2000, 01:08 AM
Hmm.. after reading this thread I don't know if I want to read Piers Anthony so much anymore.. I was recommended him by some people and I did get a few books from the library I just never got into him. From what is said here he doesn't seem to be much my style (in general I avoid stuff with lots of rape and/or sex.. well sometimes.. I have read several 'Hot Blood' anthologies and such..)

Oh and Fierra.. is McCaffrey..

DKW
10-07-2000, 01:55 AM
Sue - Oh, my apologies. I had no idea that a lot of these novels were, er...ghostwritten (don't shoot, don't shoot!). Actually, what really amazes me is that there are that many writers fascinated with creepy families, abuse, misery, pain, terror, and horrific pasts that absolutely refuse to die. Acquired taste, I guess.

Topaz - From what I've seen (reminding everyone again that I've read only a little aside from the Incarnations series, and that was some time ago), while there's a lot of sex, it isn't, you know, explicit, like the kind you find in some of the books at Borders (and no, I'm not naming names). I think that simply having sex scenes is important to him, because sexuality is a part of these people's being. You know, full range of human behavior, serving the whole man/woman/monster, and all that.

Or maybe he's just pandering. Whatever.

Sue Duhnym
10-07-2000, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by DKW
Sue - Oh, my apologies. I had no idea that a lot of these novels were, er...ghostwritten (don't shoot, don't shoot!).

BANG!

:D

Snark
10-07-2000, 12:06 PM
I gave up on Xanth for a while when he introduced a very very young girl (Ivy?) as the main character in Dragon on a Pedestal. Somehow I just couldn't get into that mindset. And Vale of the Vole REALLY turned me away from Xanth when I went back to the series later on. I mean, there's this creature who makes a "v" sound to start every "vord he vays," and it gets extremely annoying and hard to read. I actually did buy Color of Her Panties, despite the store clerk's stern disapproving glance at me, but I never read it.

I had always thought that Anthony's young daughters were his main source of inspiration for his young female characters, and that's why there are so many of them. Can anyone corroborate this? Or refute it?

Jophiel
10-07-2000, 10:25 PM
while there's a lot of sex, it isn't, you know, explicit
Well, some of it is. Firefly comes to mind. The sexual stuff in the in Incarnation and Xanth serieses (serii?) is more tactful, though slightly creepy at times if you think too hard about it. Having never read his other books, I can't speak for them. Of course, if Topaz didn't like the books she did read, there's not much reason for her to read any more of them, sex or no sex.

Una Persson
10-07-2000, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Cervaise
Amazing that we've gotten this far in a Piers Anthony thread and nobody's mentioned the Bio of a Space Tyrant series. One of his few attempts at really "serious" or "adult" science fiction, and it's just as ridiculous as everything else. That's when I finally gave up on the man, and it's been like ten or twelve years since I've even touched, let alone opened, another of his books.
I quit the first book in that series after the "Joe Hill" references started. I mean for crying out loud...

Flutterby
10-07-2000, 11:41 PM
I think that simply having sex scenes is important to him, because sexuality is a part of these people's being. You know, full range of human behavior, serving the whole man/woman/monster, and all that.

Oh the sex doesn't bother me its just his writing style I guess. Sometimes I get books from the library I read maybe the first chapter and put it down cuz I don't get it or something.. I've read lots of literature with varying degrees of sexuality.. everything from prudish to explicit so its not that. Though the way I was typing up in my last post it probably looked like that is what I didn't like. Lately the books I choose don't have much sex in them though at one time I did read a lot of that stuff. Like maybe a couple years ago. I also went through a romance novel phase when I was 12 and ended up reading lots of stuff like that..

Badtz Maru
10-09-2000, 02:08 PM
I sometimes wonder about the nature of Mr. Anthony's relationship with his daughters...

Saint Zero
10-09-2000, 03:10 PM
:sits down in booth:

Forgive me Father, it has been.. Um... 12 years since I've read one of his books.

In the immortality series, I read the first one. Yawn. Read the second, found it dull. Started on the third, and found it even worse, so I gave up. I did read the original trilogy of Xanth stories, but realised that later volumes were nothing more than Pun-fests with a recycled, threadbare plot to hang them from.

What is it with aging SF writers? Heinlein also slipped into that mode later in life. Granted it was incest rather than pedophila, but still.

Lamia
10-09-2000, 09:06 PM
Some of you might find the Rinkworks "Book-A-Minute" take on Anthony amusing:

http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/anthony.shtml (The Collected works of Piers Anthony)

http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/anthony.xanth.shtml (Xanth series)

the EJV
03-28-2017, 06:46 AM
Has anyone else noticed a trend in his later books, where he seems to be focusing on the 'sexual coming out' of his teen characters, then when they've 'matured', he moves on to younger characters again, and restarts the cycle?

Also, in the last book of the 'Incarnations of Immortality' series (And Eternity)he has a character that is 50 years old lusting after a 16 year old...and he paints it as a 'loving, normal' relationship, then sends the young girl into limbo, where she stays for four days, but conveniently returns to Earth two YEARS later, so that the old guy can legally have his 'nymphette', without 'breaking the law'.

Sorry about the pseudo-rant, this thing has been bugging me for years.

When it is adolescents, it is referred to as Hebophillia. The Pedophilic book that Piers Anthony wrote is called 'Under A Velvet Cloak'. It was released in 2011 and is Book 8 in the Incarnations Of Immortality series. There was two Instances of Pedophilia themes in that book (Which ruined the over all story for me) and it was a secondary character whom Kerena travels with and knowing his 'penchant for boys aged 5 to 8 years old' - shes was more than okay with it, in fact she was supportive (I've blocked out the characters name already)and even let him hold her child:smack:

The other was a re-telling of Morley's deepest darkest secret, that as a ten year old he had intercourse with an adult.

My Logic is: The only people who celebrate or sympathize with Pedophiles ARE pedophiles (Or maybe I'm just angry about the fact that pedophilia exists and so am completely biased).

-But yeah, it was more disturbing than 'And Eternity' was with its Hebophilia and so has ruined both the story and my perception of the Author.

Shodan
03-28-2017, 06:54 AM
I wouldn't worry about it - after seventeen years, all the characters are adult now.

Regards,
Shodan

IvoryTowerDenizen
03-28-2017, 07:05 AM
Moving this to Cafe Society

Note this is a 17 year old zombie.

Darren Garrison
03-28-2017, 07:10 AM
Note this is a 17 year old zombie.

So, too old to be a love interest in a Piers Anthony book.

IvoryTowerDenizen
03-28-2017, 07:17 AM
So, too old to be a love interest in a Piers Anthony book.

Apparently.

Azeotrope
03-28-2017, 09:40 AM
I know this is an old thread, but it's as good a place as any to complain about the moment when Piers Anthony moved from "ok" to ":eek: backing away slowly."

It was in the authors' notes of a novel he co-wrote with I think Mercedes Lackey. The gist was a girl from a nation where all the women have magical powers, but men don't and so are enslaved by the women, has to go on a quest to fetch the McGuffin of Infinite Power (TM) so she can beat the queen in a magical duel because reasons. So she mounts an expedition with the demon who's trying to seduce her because she owes him money and a whole boatload of male slave soldiers and attendants. In order to keep the men happy, there are also some foreign whores, because foreign women don't gain magical powers when they enter this country even though the protagonist keeps her powers all the way across Fantasyland. The only whore who gets a name is Pattee, who has dog paws instead of hands and feet and can only communicate with animal noises.

In the author's notes, in between rambling on about his kidney stones and whatever, he mentions that a girl who was contemplating suicide wrote to him and sent him her most treasured possession, a gold cross. Instead of using his author powers to speak out about suicide outreach or even wondering what happened to the girl and if she's all right, he jumps right to how the cross is in a style called "pattee," which means "pawed," and so wasn't that just the perfect name for this dog-pawed whore who can't even talk.

Blechhh!

Czarcasm
03-28-2017, 10:11 AM
The problem with Piers has also been discussed in these (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=154991&highlight=Piers+Anthony) three (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278311&highlight=Piers+Anthony) threads (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=788713&highlight=Piers+Anthony).

Darren Garrison
03-28-2017, 10:45 AM
I know this is an old thread, but it's as good a place as any to complain about the moment when Piers Anthony moved from "ok" to ":eek: backing away slowly."

I did some googling, and the stuff you are mentioning is from If I Pay Thee Not in Gold by Anthony and Lackey (1993). The suicidal girl part is much as you remember it, but there is no mention of kidney stones. The relevant part is:


This particular notion had a considerable history. It started in 1979, as an offshoot of my earlier research in the Arabian Nights Tales for another novel. I'm a Nights fan; I have several multi-volume editions. In one of those tales a highborn woman incurred a debt, and the man to whom she owed it suggested that there were ways other than monetary to expiate it. She caught his meaning perfectly, and declared-ah, yes, I see you understand. Thus the title and heroine of this novel. The project had a thirteen-year history as I considered doing it for another publisher. But by the time I had figured out how to organize it, my relations with that publisher had soured, and I had gotten caught up in so many projects that I was writing and selling more than half a million words of fiction a year and still barely keeping up. Thus the compromise, and this is the result.

Naturally, as I reviewed it, fate stepped in. My belief in the supernatural is nonexistent; I write fantasy, I don't believe it. This may be why supernatural occurrences keep pestering me. In this case, just as I was reviewing the scene

in which Xylina contemplates suicide, I received a letter from a young woman who was doing the same. Her name was Julie, and she had a cross that she wore continuously, day and night, her most precious possession. She enclosed that cross, and it sits by my computer as I type this. By that token I knew that she was near the end. Yes, I'm doing my best to persuade her to take back her cross, but the issue is undecided at the time of this writing. I researched to ascertain what type it is, and concluded that it is of the general description known as pattée: that is, widening in the arms, in the manner of paws. Pattée means paw-like. And so I added a character in honor of that cross-a character who did not die. I hope. Further research satisfied me that the cross is actually of another description, clechée, meaning like an ancient key, but I decided to let Pattée the character be. There are limits.

The book is only a snippet view on google books, but it provided me enough words to go a google search. I won't link to the site that I found it, but if you look for "she had a cross that she wore continuously" in quotes, it will be the only hit.

kopek
03-28-2017, 11:33 AM
There have been various threads on this over the years. I like his writing and I enjoy some of the puns from the Xanth series. But even I have to admit that "Letters to Jenny" creeped me out quite a bit. I write it off to more something in the autism spectrum (Asperger's spring to mind) but there is something there.

Little Nemo
03-28-2017, 11:41 AM
IIRC, VC Andrews is dead. Some other author(s) just write the books in her "style". I could be wrong as I'm not a fan of that crap.I know this is a very old post. But for anyone who cares, Andrew Neiderman is the author writing V.C. Andrews books now.

Azeotrope
03-28-2017, 01:32 PM
I did some googling, and the stuff you are mentioning is from If I Pay Thee Not in Gold by Anthony and Lackey (1993).

That's the one. Thanks, that was starting to drive me crazy. The kidney stone business was either in another book or else I hallucinated it. :D

Chronos
03-28-2017, 05:40 PM
What, no mention that one of his books (Castle Roogna, IIRC) featured a zombie romance?

Eh, in any event, I think I'm going to Turn Undead on this zombie.