A minor rant regarding presenteeism

[Whiteknight]

Ok, this is my first rant, and it's a minor one to be sure, but I hereby Pit all of my presentee coworkers. Of the five cubes immediately adjacent/diagonal from me, I am currently surrounded by five coughing, gagging coworkers who I just wish would stay at home. About twenty feet away, I have another presentee who "had some sort of stomach bug going through the house yesterday". Apparently he didn't learn his lesson after he blessed us all with his pneumonia inflicted presence in the fall. I'm not saying I have conclusive evidence that it was him, as I'm not even sure how effectively pneumonia is transfered, but two other people in the office came down with it within a week, and one was out for two weeks. Bravo Typhoid Bob*, I'm sure that your meaningless contribution those few days was worth the loss of perhaps our most important team member for two weeks.

My office has a fairly liberal work-from-home policy. Why the hell don't these people make use of that, and avoid infecting the rest of us? Who do they think they're kidding? The vast majority of them aren't important enough to "have to be here" on any given day.

*Name changed to protect the innocent (me, in case someone from work reads this)

[THespos]

I get angry when folks come in sick, and I've been known to cast "What the fuck were you thinking?" looks at people when they come in sick.

Our infrastructure was set up deliberately to make it easy for people to work from home, and unless people have client or vendor meetings, there's almost no reason for them to be here. With IP phones and remote access, clients usually can't even tell when we're working remotely. We generally don't even keep track of sick days unless someone really starts abusing the system, which has occurred precisely once in our 5-year history. Still, people insist on coming in when they feel yucky. If they look sick when they get here, I give them the aforementioned "WTF?" look and tell them to turn around and go home for the day.

[fluiddruid]

At my old workplace, the policy for salaried employees was generous - but the office culture and management expectations, not so much. If I had taken off work when I was ever sick, I would have suffered when it came to promotion and raise time (as infrequent as those were) as well as been given less respect. In that workplace, coming in ill was just expected.

Consequently, illness ran rampant, but the managers could proudly tout their employees' dedication. :rolleyes:

[UntouchedTakeaway]

Are any of them mothers of school-age kids? A lot of moms save their sick days for when Junior or MaryAlice are sick - and then stay home with them.

Of course, when these sick days run out, not only do the employees come in sick, they sometimes bring a sick Junior or MaryAlice in with them. I found a kid one day - lying in a vacant cube - with a sleeping bag, a pillow, a stuffed animal and a fever. :eek:

VCNJ~

[Anaamika]

My SO's company won't let anyone take off time for anything short of death. On Valentine's Day we got 3 feet fo snow in 24 hours. He went in, and he said HR was counting heads to see who made it, and whomever didn't got penalized. If you're sick, it's seriously going to fuck up your next week if you stay home for even a day..

I don't get this attitude at all.

[Whiteknight]

Are any of them mothers of school-age kids? A lot of moms save their sick days for when Junior or MaryAlice are sick - and then stay home with them.

Of course, when these sick days run out, not only do the employees come in sick, they sometimes bring a sick Junior or MaryAlice in with them. I found a kid one day - lying in a vacant cube - with a sleeping bag, a pillow, a stuffed animal and a fever. :eek:

VCNJ~

Nope, in fact only two of them are parents of school aged kids and they're both men. At any rate, I don't buy the "saving them for when my kids are sick" defense around here, not that anyone has claimed that. The unofficial policy in my department is liberal enough to allow the parents to work from home on such occasions.

[jacquilynne]

I believe that with the increasing media attention to epidemics and the possibility thereof, that we're soon going to start seeing government regulations that require companies to not only offer more generous sick leave, but require them to enforce mandatory sick leave. When the Flesheating Asian Norwalk Flu that's finally going to kill us all shows up, it's going to vector like wildfire through high density cubicle farms. We're already seeing companies that have finally figured out germ theory and realized that the productivity of sick people isn't worth having the whole department sick by week's end, and started encouraging sick employees to just stay home.

[Freddy the Pig]

We're already seeing companies that have finally figured out germ theory and realized that the productivity of sick people isn't worth having the whole department sick by week's end, and started encouraging sick employees to just stay home.I'm seeing the opposite. Each of my most recent employers has combined sick time with vacation time, and you get dinged a vacation day any time you're sick. This policy practically screams at people to come into the office no matter how sick they are (because who wants to give up precious vacation days?), and gets predictable results (sniffling and barfing in the office).

[jacquilynne]

That may be a difference between Canada and the US--I don't think I've ever heard of a company combining vacation and sick leave here, probably because we have mandatory vacation time. Some don't provide sick leave, mind you, which is effectively the same thing as giving you 2 weeks of combined leave time, since you end up taking vacation days to cover sick days, but an actual policy of combining the two doesn't seem to be common.

[An Arky]

I think it might be more of a case of inadequate sick time or shortsighted management expectation of heroics that drives this. Most folks, if they have the sick time and their managers aren't Type A assholes, would prefer to stay home when they're sick. I think a culture change in companies and management, along with a "don't come to work sick" law should happen. I'm not holding my breath, though.

BTW, didn't a bunch of people fight and die for a 40 hour work week back in the 30s or something? I think that workers today should honor that tradition by standing up to management dickheads on matters like this...

[Voyager]

My SO's company won't let anyone take off time for anything short of death. On Valentine's Day we got 3 feet fo snow in 24 hours. He went in, and he said HR was counting heads to see who made it, and whomever didn't got penalized. If you're sick, it's seriously going to fuck up your next week if you stay home for even a day..

I hope the next time he's sick he goes in and coughs on the HR person. :p

My company just posted something on our internal home page saying do not come in if you are sick. I just found out what our sick day policy is - and only because I was answering a survey on benefits, and it was hard to know if it was good if I didn't know what it was.

In an old company, they used to have an award lunch for perfect attendance, but they finally cancelled it when they decided it was driving bad behavior.

If I'm sick, and I work, I'm going to make so many mistakes that it will take more than a day to fix them.

[Missy2U]

I'm seeing the opposite. Each of my most recent employers has combined sick time with vacation time, and you get dinged a vacation day any time you're sick. This policy practically screams at people to come into the office no matter how sick they are (because who wants to give up precious vacation days?), and gets predictable results (sniffling and barfing in the office).

Freddy - this doens't make sense to me - my company did that too - they now have PTO. Personal Time Off. We don't have "sick days" or "vacation days" - we have "PTO".

We haven't lost any days - they are combined - so if I used to have 10 sick days and 14 vacation days, now I have 24 PTO days. So I'm not using any "vacation" time if I'm sick. Did your company just take away the sick days altogether? That would seriously suck.

[mhendo]

Freddy - this doens't make sense to me - my company did that too - they now have PTO. Personal Time Off. We don't have "sick days" or "vacation days" - we have "PTO".

We haven't lost any days - they are combined - so if I used to have 10 sick days and 14 vacation days, now I have 24 PTO days. So I'm not using any "vacation" time if I'm sick. Did your company just take away the sick days altogether? That would seriously suck.Well, you might not have "lost" any vacation days if you take a sick day, but for many people the result is effectively the same.

You get 24 days a year.

You get sick.

You know that if you stay home, that's one of your 24 days gone.

You decide that you'd prefer to spend your days off playing golf or going to the movies, rather than sniffling under a blanket on the couch.

You decide that you might as well go in to work.

This is how lots of people think about combined vacation/sick days.

[shamrock227]

My SO's company won't let anyone take off time for anything short of death. On Valentine's Day we got 3 feet fo snow in 24 hours. He went in, and he said HR was counting heads to see who made it, and whomever didn't got penalized. If you're sick, it's seriously going to fuck up your next week if you stay home for even a day..

I don't get this attitude at all.

I wonder if your SO and I work together. My company is exactly like this. There is no such thing as too much snow. There is no such thing as too sick to come to work.

Once, I was in a car accident on the way to work. The car was not driveable. When I called in the Manager said, "So, does this mean you are going to be late? We already have someone out so you can't take personal time." When I told her that I had to wait for the tow truck and I was going home because I was pretty shook up and a little banged up, she was not happy.

[vetbridge]

I can't remember the last time I took off due to illness. If I take a day off with the flu, there is no reason for my staff to all work, so they lose money. Plus, if I stay home when I am ill, I lay around and feel sick. I would rather take a planned day off and do some kayaking.

[Whiteknight]

I can't remember the last time I took off due to illness. If I take a day off with the flu, there is no reason for my staff to all work, so they lose money. Plus, if I stay home when I am ill, I lay around and feel sick. I would rather take a planned day off and do some kayaking.

What type of job do you have such that your staff cannot work without you? Perhaps a doctor's office or something? Around here, plenty of work gets done even when my boss is out. For me, staying home when I am just marginally sick is doubly beneficial. I don't go infect my coworkers, and if I work from home I typically get more done in four hours than I do in eight at the office, just due to the lack of uncontrollable distractions. If I'm actually too sick to work, I'll take a sick day, but if I'm just moderately ill, I'll work from home.

[fachverwirrt]

I have the damnedest time explaining to students that not only is it OK to skip lessons if you have something like strep throat, I want them the hell away from me. My studio is about thirty square feet; I can't count the number of times students have come in, closed the door, and said "I was wondering if I can skip today; I think I have strep." USE THE DAMN PHONE.

I finally put it in my syllabus.

[vetbridge]

What type of job do you have such that your staff cannot work without you? Perhaps a doctor's office or something?
Yep, veterinary practice with one veterinarian (me) who generates enough work for a relatively large support staff.

[Whiteknight]

Yep, veterinary practice with one veterinarian (me) who generates enough work for a relatively large support staff.

Ah, then I can understand your reluctance to be out sick. My capable-of-working-from-home coworkers however, not so much.

[Freddy the Pig]

Freddy - this doesn't make sense to me - my company did that too - they now have PTO. Personal Time Off. We don't have "sick days" or "vacation days" - we have "PTO".That's what I'm talking about; it's the same way here. And mhendo pretty much nails how people react to it.

In fairness, you get more PTO days than a typical American employer would give as vacation days. As a new employee I get 19 days. But once you tell me I'm getting 19 days, I start making plans for those days. And I start thinking, "If I call in sick today, I'll have to cancel that weekend trip to Kansas City. Or, I'll have to work the day after Christmas." Which means I'm going to have to be pretty damn sick before I stay home.

[threemae]

Meh, I don't know. I work in a medical clinic stuffed to the absolute gills with sick college kids sneezing and coughing over absolutely everything and I haven't noticed that I've gotten sick particularly often since beginning work there; once last semester and once this semester, or 2-3 times per year which was the same as my prior rate. Given that someone with a typical cold can be infectious for 5-15 days and I don't think that many people propose that people should have a full month of sick leave every year, I cannot get that worked up over people coming to work simply because of a sneeze or a cough.

With proper respiratory etiquette, frequent handwashing, hand sanitizer, and appropriate personal space, colds aren't that infectious.

Buy some Purell and grow a pair.

[Obsidian]

Some people have been scared by crazy college professors or crazy employers, and it's hard to shake. At my last company, a coworker called our boss from the ER, telling him she had kidney stones and was being admitted for surgery, and he argued with her. The company I worked for before that I had food poisoning so bad I needed an IV and was told I was not allowed to call out sick (and was later fired for doing so anyway).

I think these people are very healthy, and they see sickness as a character failing. It's not that they want you to come in sick-- they want you to not get sick at all.

When I first came to my current job, I had to be sent home twice by my boss for coming in sick, before I finally caught on that it was ok to call out.

[rhythmonly]

My present employer has a pretty relaxed attitude about coming in sick. By that, I mean if someone thinks that they might be ill in the conceivable future, they will not show up. Especially on 3 day weekends. I also have a co-worker that will not wear makeup if she's going home early, due to feigned illness. I'm pretty sure that she thinks no one notices here when she does this.

I've also seen the other extreme. I had a Rear-End-Ectomy a few years ago. I got out of the hospital on Thanksgiving, and was expected to stay off of my feet for the next 10 days.

I was barely able to get around using a walker the next week, when I got a call from my supervisor.

"Think you can come in this weekend? We really need to ship that last machine you were working on before you left."

"Are you kidding? Jesus, Richard, I can barely stand up, let alone drive over there."

"I can come pick you up."

"How the fuck am I supposed to get up the stairs? Float?"

"I'm calling some extra people in to help you."

I realized that I'd be screwing some fellow employees who needed the overtime if I didn't show, so I sucked it up, ate 4 Vicodin, and grimly made my way in.

[Missy2U]

Freddy and mhendo, thanks for clarifying. I got ya now.

[Auntbeast]

I once had a boss get pissed off because during lunch a coworker wanted to go visit a friend. We got to his house and he was dead. The police wouldn't let us leave. He later told me he almost fired me that day. I worked for a cool boss that understood that when we went for lunch to cash our checks at the bank and the bank was robbed, we wouldn't be back for a while.

In an odd twist of fate, the same boss that almost fired me, is now my husbands boss. He has a cube farm and they call it the TB ward. My husband has worked there for a bit over 6 months and has had 3 colds. I work heavily with the public and have had one cold in the same length of time.

We don't have sick days, we have PTO time. If you call in sick, even if you have PTO time, you get a write up, 3 days out in 90 days and you are fired. If you come in and have to leave sick, you can not return to work until you have a doctors note. Yes, a pregnant girl had to leave because she couldn't stop throwing up and I'm pretty sure her doctor's note said "She's pregnant, dumbass." If it didn't, it should have.

[gotpasswords]

Some people have been scared by crazy college professors or crazy employers, and it's hard to shake. At my last company, a coworker called our boss from the ER, telling him she had kidney stones and was being admitted for surgery, and he argued with her. The company I worked for before that I had food poisoning so bad I needed an IV and was told I was not allowed to call out sick (and was later fired for doing so anyway).
And this is why the city of san Francisco has a shiny new policy (http://www.sfgov.org/site/olse_index.asp?id=49389) requiring all employers to give sick leave at the rate of 1 hour per 30 hours worked if they don't already have an existing sick leave or PTO policy.

[Bridget Burke]

I'm seeing the opposite. Each of my most recent employers has combined sick time with vacation time, and you get dinged a vacation day any time you're sick. This policy practically screams at people to come into the office no matter how sick they are (because who wants to give up precious vacation days?), and gets predictable results (sniffling and barfing in the office).

Since last year, our first two "sick" days come from the vacation pool. A doctor's note is required to begin using sick leave. So, if you've got a cold that would benefit from a few days off, you need to spend time spreading your virus in a waiting room to get that sick leave.

I've got far too much vacation time saved up, so I'd be inclined to use a few days for something minor. If I can feed myself & watch lightweight DVD's, I'll just consider it a low-key vacation.

Right now, a co-worker is coughing, sniffing & bitching. But she's needed here for an important project. (But--are those phone calls also needed? The ones with detailed discussions of her daughter's visit to the gynecologist, her son's soccer career & her mother who's old & sick & so annoying.)

[lokij]

My wife's workplace is nice. You get sick leave, vacation, personal days, earned time off and emergency time off. You get dinged unless you plan any absences but you don't get a write up unless it's over 3 times in a rolling 90 day period.. unless you use your accumulated emergency time off, then you can take that with no questions asked and no repercussions even if the books are closed for vacation and personal time. Most of the people who need more than that get covered under FMLA.

[Whiteknight]

Alright, I'm digging this rant back up to complain about one of the very same coworkers mentioned in the OP. Two weeks ago, he started coughing and complaining of a sore throat. Not a nice, dry cough, but one of those double-over type deals that sound very "productive". The worst part is that our department secretary went up to him one day and asked him how he was doing. "Not well," he replied, then proceeded to cough on his keyboard. So, he knew he was sick, admitted he was sick, and was still enough of an asshole to be here.

One by one, my coworkers began to fall, with three suffering from similar symptoms by the end of the week. Then, last week, when I finally got to take my long-awaited vacation, what happens? Sore throat on my last day of work, right before leaving. It lasted more than halfway through the vacation.

[ScareyFaerie]

I'm one of the people guilty of coming to work when I'm ill. We don't have a set number of sick days per year, and our annual leave days are something separate. Instead, our sickness absence is monitored by management who deem it "worthy of attention" if you are off sick for more than 10 days in any 12-month period. What they don't tell you is that this also includes any time that you're signed off by a doctor.

Last year I had a chest infection which turned out to be pneumonia, the doctor signed me off for two weeks. So that was my entire 10 days gone in one fell swoop. The real bummer is that you have to send your sick note to the office so that they know you're unwell and know how long the doc recommends you should stay at home...but they still count this as part of your documented sickness absence even though the sick note prevents you from coming back to work early if you feel well enough. Our workplace insurance doesn't cover anyone who's signed off on medical grounds.

Two weeks at home doing nothing was driving me batty, I was ready to come back to work after a week but I had to stay at home for the duration of that note. Once I came back, I was told that I'd exceeded the number of "unmonitored" sick days and that for the next 12 months my absences would be monitored with the possibility of disciplinary action and/or enforced visits to our occupational health section.

So instead, I have been coming to work with whatever illness I've got. I can't afford the possibility of being hauled over the coals for being off sick again, and as I'm looking for another job I can't afford to have a poor sickness record at this job even though it's not my fault because the doctor *made* me stay away!

[Harmonious Discord]

In an old company, they used to have an award lunch for perfect attendance, but they finally cancelled it when they decided it was driving bad behavior.
The perk for no problems doesn't work well for long. Once the perks are enjoyed by coworkers, the person with the injury is almost lynched sometimes.

[Lightray]

I've been taking grim pleasure in loudly pointing out the asshole co-worker that infected me with his crud last week, because he was a selfish jackass that couldn't take a few days off when he was running a fever and coughing like a damn harbor seal and playing it up for sympathy.

He had the gall to be surprised when everybody else blamed him because I took a couple days sick time with the respiratory fever I'd come down with. "Gee, nobody else got sick..." Yeah, jackass, and nobody else has had pneumonia six times like Lightray, either. But of course, somebody else did get sick and took off the day I got back.

It's a week later, and I still haven't fully recovered my stamina. And I still haven't stopped pointing out to jackass co-worker what a jackass he was for not staying home.

Our company is generous with sick time, and there is no excuse for that kind of callous, selfish disregard for your co-workers' wellbeing.

[BubbaDog]

Three years ago I put a 40 oz. container off hand sanitizer on my desk. I used it after each time I left and then came back to my desk. I've been sick twice since then and I'm pretty sure that I picked up the germs outside of the office.

I now work in a very small office and the sanitizer is used by everybody who works here. They have become believers. The boss said to make sure that I put the cost of the sanitizer on company expenses.