Lost 3.12: "Par Avion"

[John Mace]

Thread rules:

Information about all episodes aired to this point -- including the current week -- will be unboxed.
Information about this week's episode's "next week" teasers will be unboxed.
Information about future episodes taken from spoiler sites/inside sources will be boxed. This includes links to promo photos and screencaps from future episodes.
Speculation based on events in episodes aired up to this point (including teasers) will be unboxed.
Speculation based on spoilers for upcoming episodes will be boxed.

Please remember, links inside spoiler boxes are readable even to those who don't highlight.
Locke and crew are still off to see the Wizard, but only after a pit stop at The Flame Station (which Locke ends up destroying). Now, with Eye-Patch-Guy in tow, they continue their quest. But what has become of Jack? What is Juliet’s fate? Will the Losties find a bridge they can escape on with the Dharma-bus? Or will they simply stumble around, as usual, making no progress towards escape or understanding? Tune in tonight to find out the answers to these questions and much, much more!! ;)

I hope to continue these threads thru the end of the season, but I haven't had much time for the SDMB lately, so if someone sees that I haven't started one before noon on any Wed, please jump in and get it going. Include all the links, too, as I think they help.

From the ABC "Lost" website:
Par Avion Claire becomes suspicious of Charlie's peculiar behavior, while tensions mount between Sayid and Locke.
Some useful Café Society links are given below:

Thread index for Season 1 Episodes: 1 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277083) 2 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278382) 3 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279542) 4 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280792) 5 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281998) 6 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283328) 7 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284665) 8 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=285925) 9 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=287237) 10 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289514) 11 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290718) 12 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295320) 13 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296591) 14 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=297760) 15 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=301602) 16 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302710) 17 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303909) 18 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=304986) 19 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=309511) 20 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=310613) 21 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=315048) 22 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=316088) 23 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317139) 24 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=318051)

Thread index for Season 2 Episodes: 1 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335991) 2 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337167) 3 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=338307) 4 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339366) 5 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340432) 6 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343878) 7 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345144) 8 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=346239) 9 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=347177) 10 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=353542) 11 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354691) 12 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=355716) 13 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357834) 14 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359015) 15 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=361048) 16 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=363982) 17 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=365010) 18 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366081) 19 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=367064) 20 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=370033) 21 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=371010) 22 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=371991)

Thread index for Season 3 episodes: 1 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390771) 2 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391722) 3 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=392661) 4 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=393629) 5 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=394542) 6 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=395368) 7 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=407398) 8 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=408446) 9 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=409378) 10 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=410362) 11 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=411321)

The Official Lost Jargon Thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286221)

Official “Lost” Questions Thread Season 1 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284542), Season 2 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336040), Season 3 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=390739)

Here are some interesting external links:

The Lost Report (http://hometown.aol.com/qcotms/myhomepage/index.html): A very well written summary of the most current episode often containing interesting insights. I don’t think you’ll find spoilers.

The Tail Section (http://www.thetailsection.com/): Excellent site for still frame photos of key scenes, along with some good analysis. But… beware of spoilers!

Sledgeweb’s Lost… Stuff (http://lost.cubit.net/): Pretty good site, but again beware of spoilers. I use it mainly for the Timeline section, which is an incredibly detailed breakdown of “how long since…?” for almost anything you can think of (pre- and post-plane crash).

Door Map from Episode 2.17 (http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg). A nicely cleaned up version of the diagram Locke saw while pinned under the lockdown doors. No spoilers.

Lostpedia ( http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page): The wikipedia of Lost information. Quite a comprehensive site, but beware of spoilers!

ThEmIsFiTiShErE (http://themisfitishere.blogspot.com/): The Misfit offers his whacky commentary on “Lost”. Is he a nut-case or a clever insider? Careful, though, possible spoilers.

[N9IWP]

Herc's at AICN less spoiler-ific than usual summary (though still some spoilers)
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31869

Tonight's flashback is

Claire - with darker hair


Brian

[John Mace]

Herc's at AICN less spoiler-ific than usual summary (though still some spoilers)
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31869

Tonight's flashback is

Claire - with darker hair


Brian
Yeah, I figured that was who we'd see in the backstory. I'm wondering if the title refers to...

a plane that Claire somehow finds that can get them off the island. Could just mean air-mail, though, and maybe there is some way to send a letter to the outside world by air...

It wasn't on the ABC web site, but my on-screen guide says that in this episode:

Claire... comes up with a an idea that could get everybody rescued.

[Cervaise]

It wasn't on the ABC web site, but my on-screen guide says that in this episode:

Claire... comes up with a an idea that could get everybody rescued.It's probably:"Hey, guys, how about we all stop acting like jackasses, sit down for an hour or so, and tell each other what we've all found out over the last few weeks? How's about that for a genius fuckin' plan, eh?"

[rockle]

ThEmIsFiTiShErE: The Misfit offers his whacky commentary on “Lost”. Is he a nut-case or a clever insider? Careful, though, possible spoilers.You know, every week I click the link to this site, and every week I about have a damn stroke at how bad this guy's spelling, grammar, and mechanics are. I know it's supposed to be funny, but it makes my brain want to explode sometimes. Example: Current lead story (no spoilers, just random junk).
I have A new best FIEND!! WOLT!!

After WEEKS of debating who MY new best friend SHOULD be I decided it SHOULD be David Malcom Kellee OR as you MAY know him Wolt from LOST.[sic] "Friend" is spelled wrong, "Waaaaaaaaaalt" is spelled wrong, and the actor's name is spelled wrong AND in the wrong order. I ... just don't get these kids today. Or these people on the Internet posing as kids today. Or whatever. And what's funny* is -- with all the stuff going on (or not) with the actual show, this is the stuff that bugs me. Why, yes, I am batshit crazy, why do you ask?

Never mind me. Carry on. See you all later.

* = Not funny "ha, ha!" but funny "oh, God, no!"

[John Mace]

The misspellings are supposed to be funny. He does it specifically to irritate anal types, and the key is to find the wisdom in his idiocy. He cracks me up!

[rockle]

The misspellings are supposed to be funny. He does it specifically to irritate anal types, and the key is to find the wisdom in his idiocy. He cracks me up!Hmm. Guess my sense of humor is broken.

[vivalostwages]

I'm curious to see how many people may die in this ep. Or do they have to save the body count for May sweeps?

[ZipperJJ]

Can someone recap the first coupla minutes for me? I missed it. I saw Claire crying over her dying mom at the accident scene, but nothing before it.

[N9IWP]

OK, I could have guessed the doctor connection, but not that Jack and Clair are half-siblings.

Locke continues to act odd/stupid.

I still don't uinderstand the gun shot thing. If they had captured birds in the net, Charlie woldn't have had to trekking on wet rocks.

Brian

[Broken Wind]

Whoa. That was a good one. I think they filled us up with the suck at the beginning of the year so they can really start wowing us at the end of the season. At least I'm hoping so. And next week's previews!?!? FINALLY!

[OpalCat]

Good episode. I don't often participate on the Lost threads, but I agree that the show has been dragging for a long time now. It was good to see something HAPPEN.

[AuntiePam]

I still don't uinderstand the gun shot thing. If they had captured birds in the net, Charlie woldn't have had to trekking on wet rocks.


Excellent point! Charlie died again while Claire was building the bird trap? Did he go hunting with Desmond or not?

[tanstaafl]

Can someone recap the first coupla minutes for me? I missed it. I saw Claire crying over her dying mom at the accident scene, but nothing before it.
That was basically it. Claire wakes up in the wrecked car (with closeup shot of her eye, naturally). Looks around, sees mom lying on pavement, crawls out through windshield and goes to her mom.

[Broken Wind]

And I just have to throw in that Claire with the black hair was kinda smokin' hot. Bunk time for me.

[GraceTX]

Is it wrong that I'm finding the Charlie/Desmond/Claire storyline infinitely more interesting than the Jack/Kate/Others storyline? More and more, I'm finding I just don't care about JKO, whereas each week I hope to find out a little more about Desmond's abilities and how Charlie is dealing with his impending doom.

Looking forward to next week though. They've been dragging out Locke's story for way too long.

And I just have to throw in that Claire with the black hair was kinda smokin' hot. Bunk time for me. Yep. But then I think she's smokin' hot as a blonde too, so my opinion probably doesn't count.

OK, I could have guessed the doctor connection, but not that Jack and Clair are half-siblings. This was hinted at a while ago (I forget which episode) when we saw Jack's dad visiting a woman in Australia. With flowers, IIRC.

[Frylock]

Was that not the best ending of any Lost episode ever, or at least, the best in quite a while?

-FrL-

[anamnesis]

AuntiePam and N9IWP, I agree that it was a strange setup for Desmond to to scare away the birds with the rifle so he could go get one himself. It didn't make sense. I think maybe they meant to imply that Claire shouldn't trap the bird herself because she wouldn't be successful with the net idea and Charlie would consequently try to go grab the bird himself to impress her ... because Charlie is clearly a bit daft and will now be looking for every opportunity to unnecessarily put himself in harm's way now that Desmond's told him that fate has it out for him. Charlie's a bit stupid like that. I think they should've showed Claire being unsuccessful with the net trap, and then showed Charlie chomping at the bit to go get the bird himself, and then it might have made more sense for Desmond to go after the bird himself. Even better, they should've had Charlie show up at the rocks after Claire followed Desmond, with a surprised look on his face after seeing Desmond beat him to the bird.

Now what is up with Locke, ey? I was genuinely spooked after Sayid pulled the C4 from his sack. My eyebrows shot up about an inch. I'd like to think his intentions are still benign, but he was clearly playing stupid and knows something we don't. That was way outta left field. :dubious:

Totally called the Jack/Claire sibling thing. That's been a pretty obvious theory for awhile now. Nice to see it finally been confirmed.

Not surprised that they're trying to make us think Jack is an Other now. I don't think they've "brainwashed" him though. He's probably playing along, but it's impossible to tell and we likely won't know what he's up to for a few episodes. So, don't start squaking about it when we don't find out next week, people.

[Red Barchetta]

Is it wrong that I'm finding the Charlie/Desmond/Claire storyline infinitely more interesting than the Jack/Kate/Others storyline?

I feel the exact opposite. I can't stand all the beach crap, but I just flat out loath anything having to do with Charlie. I really, truly wish he would die, and soon. I'm also bored by the whole "Desmond can see into the future thing," though my view may have been colored since he keeps saving the douche-wagon Charlie!

With that said, this may have been the best episode of this season, especially after the last two abysmal episodes. The security system was intriguing, eye-patch guy's death was awesome, and the ending was completely perplexing. Love it, sans the beach scenes.

Oh, and is it just me or was Claire, like, way hotter in this episode than normal? And I don't mean her 'younger version' (which I actually didn't like), but she just looked great in the beach scenes.

[Rilchiam]

Are Aussie steering wheels on the right? Claire hesitated before she said who'd been driving. Then again, her mom was thrown directly through the windshield, so there's really no point in lying about who was sitting where.

And I also called the Jack/Claire connection! Lil' Mahoney, it was "Two For the Road", an Ana-Lucia flashback from season 2.

Now, what I wonder is, does Claire know her bio-dad's name? As in, full name, as in, she knows she's on the island with her half-brother. On any other show, I'd say "Duh," but...

ETA: And yes, I'm thoroughly sick of Dead Zone Desmond as well. And, was there a "graphic scenes" disclaimer before this ep started?

[BobT]

Aussies drive on the left side of the road, so the steering wheel should be on the right.

[SurrenderDorothy]

I know a lot of people don't, but I love Charlie and Claire. My problem with the beach episodes is that there's too much potential for "let's have a ping-pong tournament and then take a car ride!" episodes (which are okay in their own right, but should be used very sparingly.) whereas the Jack/Others ones tend to have more action and weirdness.

Last week or the week before (psshhhh I can't remember. the car one.) I thought the "charlie is going to die" storyline was resolved. And I thought that was the stupidest thing ever because, like, why would the universe follow some rule that Hurley just pulled out of the air? So I was glad to see that it wasn't.

The whole reasoning thing was confusing to me, too. I figure Desmond wanted Charlie to go hunting at the very beginning so he'd never know what Claire was planning on doing. Was the rock where they were laying the trap the same one the birds were on later? I don't think it was, but maybe...

[Carnick]

That security system rocks. Sure you can easily climb over it, but it makes up for that fault with brain frying ability. I don't blame Locke for pushing the prisoner through it, I would have done the same thing. As soon as I saw the fence I thought to myself "If Russian guy is so sure about the fence being disabled, make the bastard walk through it!" so I'm glad they went there.

Next week: Locke's Very Special Cripple Episode.

Speculation: Ben is responsible and Locke is out to get some revengin'. Doesn't make sense then that Locke was kind to Ben when he was a prisoner, but hell, this is Lost.

[rockle]

I still don't uinderstand the gun shot thing. If they had captured birds in the net, Charlie woldn't have had to trekking on wet rocks.Our guess was that Claire either (1) wouldn't have caught anything with the net anyway, or (2) managed to catch something, but it got "partially" away before they could tie a note to it, so Charlie went chasing after it over wet rocks. You know, discounting the fact that it's virtually impossible to sneak up on a seagull, let alone when you're a giant lumbering idiot like Charlie.

[Broken Wind]

Did anyone notice that the whole security system thingy may have been there as much to keep people "in" as much as to keep people "out"? Maybe more so. Seems like outside the perimeter there were tons of trees to hack down in order to climb over it, but inside the perimeter it was pretty clear. No trees on the inside in order to climb back out. Which begs the question, how the hell do Kate, Sayid, Locke and CFL plan to get back out? Their tree climbing device looked kind of one way to me.

[Cheesesteak]

Broken Wind, they better not get stuck inside, that would be the king stupid act of the season. Clearly, when you traverse the security system, going into an area it completely surrounds, you need to set up a return trip. I can forgive them not detailing the way out that was setup, but I don't want to see it become a plot point.

[tanstaafl]

Well, presumably the Others have some way of turning the security system off; all of them got back inside somehow anyway. (I suspect there is a tunnel somewhere that goes under it myself.)

And Sawyer is now reading Ayn Rand. It looked like The Fountainhead.

[UncleRojelio]

You know, discounting the fact that it's virtually impossible to sneak up on a seagull, let alone when you're a giant lumbering idiot like Charlie.
Hobbits don't ususally have the word 'giant' in their description.

It's obvious that the Others come and go through the security fence as they please. Ethan and (that other Other guy's name escapes me) made beelines for the beach without even mentioning disabling the perimeter.

You would think that by this time, all Desmond needs to do would be to wink and Charlie and he would go lie low in his bunk until the danger passed. No need for gun shooting, bird scaring hijinks.

[Gfactor]

Nice shimmying, Kate. :D

We're back to the not asking enough questions bit again, though. For all of the questions that got asked and answered during this episode, couldn't they have pressed Locke for a real answer about the C4. He clearly lied about it, and his lack of knowledge is his explanation for the explosion. Why does he still have all of his fingers and toes with Sayid and CFL around?

[wasson]

All this talk and no mention of the best 2 seconds of the episode?

Right after Locke pushed Mikail through the fence and he... um... exploded inside or whatever, he just looked kind of apathetic, mumbled "Sorry." And turned around.

I loved the whole episode, but that little exchange cracked me up.

[phungi]

can someone explain the "Charlie died" story line? I recall Desmond stating that it was Charlie who was drowning a few weeks back, but what is the deal with him bashing up against the rocks and dying this week?

[rockle]

Hobbits don't ususally have the word 'giant' in their description.Well, true, but he does have a giant stupid head, so does that count for anything? (Sorry, cranky, between the time change and the late broadcast hour, my ass is fully kicked.)

[Gfactor]

can someone explain the "Charlie died" story line? I recall Desmond stating that it was Charlie who was drowning a few weeks back, but what is the deal with him bashing up against the rocks and dying this week?

Demond has psychic abilities. He's trying to keep Charlie alive, even though Charlie is fated to die. A few episodes back we saw Desmond learn that this is merely a temporary measure because fate has a way of course-correcting.

[WhyNot]

Question for y'all: Is it only my perception, or is Claire a manipulative bitch?

My husband thinks I'm crazy, but it seems to me like every time Charlie doesn't dance to her little tune and do exactly as she says, she uses the baby (sorry BAY-bay) as a weapon against him. I feckin' hate that! I've lost track of how long they've been there, but he has been nothing but a good surrogate daddy to Aaron, and she just jerks him around by his love for that kid (and her.) Bitch.

My husband was shocked when I said that last night, and says that it says more about me than her and that she's just protecting him from a guy who's acting weird.

Note: this observation does not include the odd ocean baptism while hallucinating scenario. I get that that was weird and she was right to get the baby back and have Charlie punched a lot. But at some point you either have to trust your baby daddy or not. And it seems they've been shacking - uh, lean-toing - up together for quite some time now.

[Fiver]

And I just have to throw in that Claire with the black hair was kinda smokin' hot. Bunk time for me.I was coming in here to post the same observation (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-promos/sea3/paravion/para-vion-01.jpg).

And I loved those boots she was wearing in the hospital! Soooo cuuuute!

[Gfactor]

Question for y'all: Is it only my perception, or is Claire a manipulative bitch?



1. I thought the same thing last night. I hadn't really picked up on it as much before.

2. It may just be because of the way their relationship is structured. She's not his girlfriend, as far as we can tell. When she shoos him away because he pisses her off, it's just easier to say get away from my bay-bay than, "you're acting a bit creepy again. Go sleep with Hurley." And certainly, she's gotten help enforcing her orders when she has invoked said bay-bay in the past. Which is to say, she's getting more manipulative because that's working for her.

[phungi]

...she uses the baby (sorry BAY-bay)....

Every time I hear Claire say BAY-bay, I think of Meryl Streep in some movie screaming in some accent "YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MY BAY-BAY"

[Turek]

Every time I hear Claire say BAY-bay, I think of Meryl Streep in some movie screaming in some accent "YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MY BAY-BAY"

Every time I here her say it, I wish someone would put a bullet in her head. Hmm... now that I think about it, any time she's on the screen I wish someone would put a bullet in her head. I'm ready for her character to die off.

[Fiver]

I have to observe, to those of you talking about what a great security system that was, that Mikhail had to stand between the pylons for several seconds before it killed him. And the emitters atop the pylons were stationary, not motorized, so they wouldn't be able to track trespassers. The only danger zone is the plane between each pylon.

Sayid, Locke, et al. surely could have just dashed through the fence and suffered little to no harm.

This storyline would have been much more credible if they'd cast the conundrum in terms of not alerting the Others that they were entering their compound than in terms of not getting hurt.

[Lady Venom]

I've lost track of how long they've been there, but he has been nothing but a good surrogate daddy to Aaron, and she just jerks him around by his love for that kid (and her.) Bitch.

According to Claire's rescue note, they've been there 80 days as of last night's episode.

[well he's back]

Hey Phungi - That Mery Streep movie was "A Cry in the Dark", based on the true story of a woman whose baby was killed by wild dogs, but who was tried for murder because the media didn't like her.

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode, but I want Sawyer to get up off his bottom and go save Kate.

[Atrael]

I liked the bit where eye-patch guy was talking about how the ones that weren't taken were left out because they were flawed. Interesting bit of conversation that points to some of the speculation being right. It would be interesting to find out that in the end that the ones that were taken were actually the people that were doing some big "save the world" tasks....the other survivors were just and annoyance.

[StarvingButStrong]

According to Claire's rescue note, they've been there 80 days as of last night's episode.


Speaking of the rescue note...It looked to me like they just rolled it up and slid it beneath an existing leg band. To which I say:

Anything a human can simply slide under a leg band, the leg band wearer will pluck back out in short order during a grooming session.

Not to mention....seagull, right? As in, a bird that dives down into the water to catch fish, not to mention spends time just bobbing around on top of the water. Even if the gull doesn't pluck the paper out, what kind of pen and paper did they use that will stand up to prolonged sea baths and still be legible?

[Caricci]

Mikhail did say "thank you" right before his horrible death, right? What's up with that?

[Gfactor]

Mikhail did say "thank you" right before his horrible death, right? What's up with that?

I think the idea is that the big guy he referred to--not Benry--doesn't tolerate screw ups. Benry told the same story before he escaped.

[Caricci]

I think the idea is that the big guy he referred to--not Benry--doesn't tolerate screw ups. Benry told the same story before he escaped.

I don't understand what that has to do with him saying thank you.

[Monstre]

This was hinted at a while ago (I forget which episode) when we saw Jack's dad visiting a woman in Australia. With flowers, IIRC.
Right -- it was the last Ana Lucia flashback (one or two episodes before she died, I think), back in season 2. At the time, some of us in this thread thought that lady resembled Claire, and a few people speculated that she was Claire's mom. I guess she must have been Aunt (Linsday?), instead. So there were some guesses that Jack and Claire were half-siblings back then. Good call, y'all! (i.e. y'all who guessed that back in season 2).

[Gfactor]

I don't understand what that has to do with him saying thank you.

Spared him a worse fate at the hands of the master--or brought him into the master's good graces that much sooner.

[Caricci]

Spared him a worse fate at the hands of the master--or brought him into the master's good graces that much sooner.

Okay. It looked like the worst fate ever to me, but it was fast anyway. Do you suppose the Master can speak to all of them wherever they are?

[Frylock]

I betcha it turns out the migratory birds just fly around in circles and return to the island every year without ever having landed anywhere else.

The island seems to screw up navigation, anyway.

I also betcha the little tag on the bird was part of a Dharma Initiative experiment. Maybe an experiment to find out whether the birds are just flying around in circles or not.

-FrL-

[Fiver]

Oh, here's another question I had. Claire and Lindsay said they couldn't afford the care for Claire's mom. But doesn't Australia have a national health service?

[Monstre]

You would think that by this time, all Desmond needs to do would be to wink and Charlie and he would go lie low in his bunk until the danger passed. No need for gun shooting, bird scaring hijinks.
Ahhhh, but how would he know that the danger isn't in his bunk? Perhaps his bunk is filled with scorpions today. (And if not, then it should be!)

Well, presumably the Others have some way of turning the security system off; all of them got back inside somehow anyway.
Maybe you need to have a Dark Mark on your arm to get through... ;)
I'd guess they have an off switch. But only controlled by Ben, or a limited few, perhaps. Maybe Kate/Sayid/Locke are counting on finding out how to turn off the perimeter?

My husband thinks I'm crazy, but it seems to me like every time Charlie doesn't dance to her little tune and do exactly as she says, she uses the baby (sorry BAY-bay) as a weapon against him.
I can see how she was upset over how she had what she thought was a wonderful idea, and Charlie immediately discounted it and said he didn't see the point. Clearly that's going to hurt her feelings. But you're right, she throws the "Stay away from me and my bay-bay!" tantrum all too often. A little extreme just because Charlie didn't think her idea was as brilliant as she did. She overreacts a lot. (She gets away with it because she's a hot chick and Charlie wants her.)

Every time I hear Claire say BAY-bay, I think of Meryl Streep in some movie screaming in some accent "YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MY BAY-BAY"
Maybe the dingo ate your bay-bay!

[Monstre]

I haven't read through last week's thread, so maybe this was already mentioned... but...

Last week seems to have solidified the notion that the Others are not Dharma people, but rather who the Dharmas referred to as the Hostiles. Clearly, Ethan was among their number (Hostiles) -- so I assume Ethan was not Dharma.

We saw Ethan in Juliet's flashback, when she was first recruited for... whatever. At the time, I thought maybe she was being recruited for something to do with Dharma research on the island, but now... Maybe Mittelos (the company recruiting her) is funding the Hostiles or something?

I never did the whole "Lost Experience" thing over the summer, but in perusing some things about it, I know that one of the names was Thomas Mittelwerk (who supposedly worked for Dharma but then overthrew Hanso or something). Maybe Mittelos was created by Mittelwerk -- and the Hostiles are his people? Overthrowing the original Dharma people? With a takeover occurring on the island, as well.

Although, Eyepatch said something last week about the Hostiles being on the island long before Dharma. Although he certainly could have been lying. (My speculation above would seem to indicate that Hostiles came to the island specifically to overthrow Dharma).

Anyways... I like how the Search Party story has been moving along in the last couple of weeks. Partly because we're getting a few more answers in the form of info from Eyepatch. And also because the Search Party is more interesting with Danielle in it. Good exchange between Danielle and Kate this week -- "I haven't asked questions about my daughter, because I don't want to know the answers."

[John Mace]

I haven't read through last week's thread, so maybe this was already mentioned... but...

Last week seems to have solidified the notion that the Others are not Dharma people, but rather who the Dharmas referred to as the Hostiles. Clearly, Ethan was among their number (Hostiles) -- so I assume Ethan was not Dharma.
I'm not sure if we can believe EPG. In fact, we know we can't believe him, so I don't think we can assume The Others are not Dharma. If they were simply "hostiles", I don't think they'd be making excursions on and off the island.

So, we all pretty much knew Jack and Claire were half-siblings, but it's not to get the actual confirmation. And every time I think I've seen the worst wig in a backstory, they come up with another one-- Claire's. Maybe it's not noticeable in SD, but in HD that was one awful wig!! And Sawyer is now reading "The Fountainhead". Interesting, but "Atlas Shrugged" might be more appropriate (Galt's Gulch).

Good episode, all in all. Locke's secret almost came out, and I presume that EPG was about to say "Jacob" when they thought he was talking about Benry.

EPG, RIP.

[UncleRojelio]

I thought that one of the creepier things that was mentioned was when Eye Patch said that, since the sonar beacon was off, the sub could leave the island but never come back. I interpreted it in the wider sense that you physically can't get to the island(s) unless you are guided there -- that it is not visible to the outside world.

[vivalostwages]

I liked the look of utter shock and horror on Kate's face as she watched Jack toss the football with Tom.
Poor Sawyer---no nicknames for a week. It must be killing him, though he did attempt to call Claire "Barb" (which is short for what? Shrimp on the barbie?).

[vivalostwages]

I liked the look of utter shock and horror on Kate's face as she watched Jack toss the football with Tom.
Poor Sawyer---no nicknames for a week. It must be killing him, though he did attempt to call Claire "Barb" (which is short for what? Shrimp on the barbie?).

[WhyNot]

I liked the look of utter shock and horror on Kate's face as she watched Jack toss the football with Tom.
Oh! That reminds me. Did you see the ugly red spot on Jack's arm? It was on the inside of his left arm, just above the elbow - an oval about 4 inches by 2 inches that looked rubbed raw. A new implant? Did he drink the Flavor-Aid?
Poor Sawyer---no nicknames for a week. It must be killing him, though he did attempt to call Claire "Barb" (which is short for what? Shrimp on the barbie?).
My guess was simply "Barbie", as in "Barbie Doll". Or maybe "Barbie With Special Bay-bay Whine Action".

[Sir Prize]

Mikhail did say "thank you" right before his horrible death, right? What's up with that?He asked them to kill him last episode. Didn't give a reason though. Maybe the same reason Miss Clue asked him to kill her (which we also don't know).

[rockle]

Did he drink the Flavor-Aid?I dunno -- that looked like a pretty swanky compound, as uncharted-island-cult compounds go. I bet they could afford to spring for at least the Wyler's brand.

[Sir Prize]

I think the most important part of the whole episode might turn out to be Claire telling Charlie that she isn't giving up on him. I liked her more saying that line than I have in any scene till now. Between her and Desmond and who knows what else, Charlie is going to escape his "fate" which will somehow save the world. He's the cheerleader.

[Trion]

I dunno -- that looked like a pretty swanky compound, as uncharted-island-cult compounds go. I bet they could afford to spring for at least the Wyler's brand.

You know when you get those things in the mail that tell you you've won a fabulous prize. And there's a list of prizes you could have won. And you just know the prize you've won is the three-day vacation to some exotic resort. And you just know that once you get to the resort, they're going to try to sell you a time share for the condo in the exotic resort location.

You should totally throw those away.

I'm just sayin'.

[Monstre]

Between her and Desmond and who knows what else, Charlie is going to escape his "fate" which will somehow save the world. He's the cheerleader.
Yep. ;) (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8280580&postcount=171)


BTW, Eyepatch seemed to be about to say something revealing or meaningful to Locke, when Danielle interrupted him in mid-sentence. In the scene where he was taunting them all with "And you, Kate Austin, you're a complete stranger to me. And I know nothing about you, Sayid Jarrah..."

One would think that Locke would want to go back and hear him complete his sentence -- but instead, Locke pushed him into the sonic brain-squisher field. I wonder if he was about to say something that Locke wanted kept secret.

[Atrael]

I seem to recall that he sounded like he was going to say something like "But I know a little something about you John Locke......I know that you when you came to the island, you were pa..."...and that's when Danielle interupted him...or something similar to that I think.

[wasson]

One would think that Locke would want to go back and hear him complete his sentence -- but instead, Locke pushed him into the sonic brain-squisher field. I wonder if he was about to say something that Locke wanted kept secret.Yeah, he said something like "The John Locke I know was para...." Obviously about to say "paralyzed". And so far, Rose is the only person who knows Locke used to be in a wheelchair. Of course he didn't want Mikhail to complete the sentence.

[Sir Prize]

[url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8280580&postcount=171]BTW, Eyepatch seemed to be about to say something revealing or meaningful to Locke, when Danielle interrupted him in mid-sentence. I think he said "The John Locke I know was para..." I assume he was going to say that he know Locke was paralyzed which would match what Ben says in the preview.

[Gfactor]

Okay. It looked like the worst fate ever to me, but it was fast anyway. Do you suppose the Master can speak to all of them wherever they are?

All we know is that he's magnific---

[fifty-six]

I have developed a theory I call the Grand Theory of Epocity.

And it goes like this.

This show is shaping up to fit along the plot lines of most great epics. Good vs Evil, long history, sometimes fantasy, deep character development, quests, and a Hero. I am obviously not particularity schooled in this area but I started thinking about it a while back during the second season. And following the "epic" type movies I have watched in the past there seems to be a common plot line, and it gives me some clues of how the show will likely unravel. We don't have a hero yet but in most epic we are introduced to the hero early on. We sometimes don't know who the hero is at first and sometimes the hero does not know either or is often reluctant. Characters introduced usually the good guys, the story develops, evil/quest is introduced and built up and the hero emerges often with a power of some sort. Then the battle or climatic phase begins and the good guy win against all odds. We may have already had an epic battle on the island it looks like but that is just the start. Revenge will be had.
I think that the pre-island flashbacks will finish up by the end of the season. Main character development will be over at that point. The Real Evil will be introduced/become more defined for the cliffhanger. Next season epic battles will be had. Then wrapping up. The good guys will win and there will be a wedding in the end.Unless of course they stretch this thing out to long and it gets canceled.

So on to my real point. And more supporting evidence. The greatest line ever in Lost.

"I am you father."
NooooooooooooHHHhh!!!!

She had to have killed him in Australia. I can see it now.

"Hello. My name is Claire Littleton You are my father. Prepare to die."

That was so Star Wars, epic and Princess Bride, and Dope (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=54123&highlight=luke+skywalker+prepare+father) .
Will Clair and Jack be the heroes? Is Jacks dad the Evil one? Who is the Emperor? It it the one Patch Man mentioned? Is it Jacob? Are they on our side kinda? Will we join forces with who we though of as evil to fight the true evil ones?




Of course all of this may not mean what I think it means.

[fifty-six]

Yeah, he said something like "The John Locke I know was para...." Obviously about to say "paralyzed". And so far, Rose is the only person who knows Locke used to be in a wheelchair. Of course he didn't want Mikhail to complete the sentence.


I think Walt knew he was paralyzed. And Walt had a connection with him.

[John Mace]

Oh, yeah... about the bird. Wasn't that a seagull? Are seagulls migratory...? And what happens to the message when the bird lands in water and the ink/paper gets all wet?

[vivalostwages]

Oh, yeah... about the bird. Wasn't that a seagull? Are seagulls migratory...? And what happens to the message when the bird lands in water and the ink/paper gets all wet?

1. Yes, they migrate.
2. Ummmmm....I don't know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Miss Clue and Eyepatch were willing to die/be sacrificed to protect something or keep a secret. Either that or they were so miserable, for reasons yet unknown, that death wasn't such a bad proposition.

[ZipperJJ]

Count me in as one who's confused about slipping a piece of paper under a damn band on a water bird's foot.

Stupid young people - they SO lack forethought...

I would have at least figured Jin would have been like "hey, we can use this special seaweed, dry it out and make a box out of it for the message and special sap to make it waterproof" or something (or..."no. Seaweed...box. Glue. See?)

If my man Sayid were there he'd all be making an unbreakable glass tube out of melted sand and 4 goblets to match! He's never around when you need something very critical done properly.

[Wile E]

Oh, yeah... about the bird. Wasn't that a seagull? Are seagulls migratory...? And what happens to the message when the bird lands in water and the ink/paper gets all wet?

I kept saying that the whole episode, how are they going to attach a message that won't fall off or get wet. It's a dang seabird, it's going to get wet. He may have put the note into something and attached it to the leg band but they cut away before they showed too much detail of what he was doing.

I also think the birds probably can't leave the island either so it's not going to matter since it won't get anywhere.

[Thirty-Nine]

Locke's behaviour is very strange... Over at the fuselage, people reckon he was told a lot more than we saw after pressing 77 - which would explain things.

[c_goat]

It seems to me that Locke is taking the side of Dharma and trying to get some sort of revenge or stop the others from doing whatever they're doing. He must have known The Flame would be destroyed. I'm guessing he took the C4 because some recording on the computer told him that something else needs to be destroyed in order to stop the others.

Edit: Thirty-Nine, exactly what I was thinking... there was more after "press 77".

[Thirty-Nine]

Also, the one thing that bothered me about that episode:

Look at those trasmitter things. They're half dome shaped. Now why the hell would you assume they create a field which magically stops at the top of the pole they're mounted to? There's no way in hell I would have tried to go over those things. There's no way a character like Sayid would have either.

If they did work that way, then surely it would have been as effective for the Others to build... I don't know... a wall?

I'm hoping that the Losties were wrong - Mikhael was killed by it because he was tagged or something. That they needn't have bothered climbing other.

We'll see...

[OpalCat]

I had a similar thought. If you can go over them and so on, it seems like they only work when you get directly between their line-of-sight to each other. Which means they could have walked under them.

[Jurph]

Look at those trasmitter things. They're half dome shaped. Now why the hell would you assume they create a field which magically stops at the top of the pole they're mounted to? There's no way in hell I would have tried to go over those things. There's no way a character like Sayid would have either.

I agree with you, but the domes are mounted -- somewhat stupidly -- on either side of a thick square pole. There is clearly a dead zone between the two hemispheres. You can't go under it because the pole's there, but if you go over, right on top of the pole, you might be okay. Of course, if I were designing a system like that, I'd make sure that each hemisphere's effective range was twice the distance from post to post; that way, each dead zone would be covered by the two neighboring hemispheres. Also, I'd mount the hemispheres on a thinner pole, and include a lightning rod.

[Rilchiam]

Right -- it was the last Ana Lucia flashback (one or two episodes before she died, I think), back in season 2.

No, it was the episode where she died.

[Nature's Call]

I, for one, am so glad that Lost is BACK! This episode had just about everything in it that addicted me to the show.

I've heard somewhere (probably here) that the actor that played Eco quit the show to be with his sick father. Could it be the lackluster episodes to date were rush jobs as they "wrote around" what was amounting to Eco's critical significance?

[OpalCat]

I agree with you, but the domes are mounted -- somewhat stupidly -- on either side of a thick square pole. There is clearly a dead zone between the two hemispheres. You can't go under it because the pole's there, but if you go over, right on top of the pole, you might be okay. Of course, if I were designing a system like that, I'd make sure that each hemisphere's effective range was twice the distance from post to post; that way, each dead zone would be covered by the two neighboring hemispheres. Also, I'd mount the hemispheres on a thinner pole, and include a lightning rod.
What I don't get, though, is the logic of the affected range... seems like either anywhere in "view" of the dome is affected *or* anywhere directly between (i.e., blocking line-of-sight) two domes. It can't be the latter, because if it was, they could have walked under. It can't be the former, either, though, because it would have zapped them where they were standing the whole time. So I don't get how they are supposed to work. Logically, that is.

[Rilchiam]

Augh, missed the window.

Anyway, good call on the birds never leaving the island. And I forgot one of my favorite bits: After Desmond scares away the birds, Jin lurches towards him saying what sounds like Korean for "What the fuck you doin', man? What the fuck you doin'?"

[Merijeek]

My observations on this episode...

1. Claire's wig was horrible. And no, I don't have an HDTV.

2. Desmond wanting Charlie to come hunting might have been yet another death that he wanted Charlie to avoid that had nothing to do with the "killed by the rocks" death he mentioned to Claire.

3. It's entirely possible that Mikail was killed by the fence pretty much instantly, it just took him a few seconds to drop.

4. The antennas may have looked hemispherical, but doesn't mean that their effect was a hemisphere. As a matter of fact, if their area of effect was like that, the only safe place near the fence you could be would be directly behind an antenna - but that would put you in the radius of another antenna...

5. The CGI on the rest of the pylons was terrible, as was that of Claire's flock that seemed to be all over the place.

However, I thought it was the best episode in a long time. Characters actually DID stuff, and it was smart stuff. "Why not push him through the fence?" They did. "Why not go over?" They did. "Why not do your best to tug a log through the fence so you can set up a quick getaway?" Well, two out of three is better than the usual 0 out of 10.

And Charlie just TOLD Claire about the whole marked for death thing! Not "you wouldn't understand" or "it's complicated". Holy hell, maybe the retardo virus is wearing off!

I got a hell of a laugh out of seeing with whom Jack was tossing the football around.

Right now, though, Locke has gone from one of my favorites to a step above Michael in my book of "please just kill him already" characters.

-Joe

[PunditLisa]

Good episode.

I agree that Claire looked great with darker hair. She has such pale skin that dark hair is a great contrast and makes her eyes stand out.

I wondered why they just didn't throw a rock through the security system to see if it was electrified. My first thought was to dig a tunnel underneath the security system. Of course climbing over it was a lot easier.

I'm kind of sorry to see the Russian dude die. He intrigued me.

I realized this episode that I really like Desmond. Not as much as Jack the Traitor, but he's a nice foil for the wishy-washy beach dwellers.

Jack being Claire's father wasn't a big surprise to me. It's about time a connection between two of the survivors was revealed.

I wonder what happened to Charlie that now he's rational and normal. Was it ever explained what was going on with him last season that made him freak out?

[Cisco]

Who/what is CFL? (Besides the Canadian Football League)

[Gfactor]

Who/what is CFL? (Besides the Canadian Football League)

Crazy French Lady--Danielle.

[Cisco]

Crazy French Lady--Danielle.
Ah. See, if you would've said CFLWSHD I would've known right off the bat.

[SenorBeef]

Question for y'all: Is it only my perception, or is Claire a manipulative bitch?


Yes, but it's fitting, because Charlie is a dick who'd like to play the superficial role of a nice and decent guy, while Claire seems kind and innocent but then quickly jumps to emotional manipulation when she wants to control a situation. They're a good fit for each other.

Claire, though, seems less... sociopathic about it. She seems like a fairly typical person who can overreact emotionally and kind of automatically respond on a base emotional level which ends up being manipulative, whereas Charlie genuinely doesn't seem to care about who he hurts in his quest to play the role of the nice guy.

I've made a few "Charlie is a dick" posts in various Lost threads. Like this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7090279&postcount=179) one from a while back.

[SenorBeef]

Also, the one thing that bothered me about that episode:

Look at those trasmitter things. They're half dome shaped. Now why the hell would you assume they create a field which magically stops at the top of the pole they're mounted to? There's no way in hell I would have tried to go over those things. There's no way a character like Sayid would have either.

If they did work that way, then surely it would have been as effective for the Others to build... I don't know... a wall?


Well, a wall is easy to understand and overcome. However, there's another element at play.

When you push a guy past some posts in the ground, and some sort of mysterious force turns his brain into jelly from the inside, if you're a reasonable person you tend to have a reaction along the lines of:

"WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!? Okay.... went past posts.... brain... fried..... mysterious island... mysterious town...surrounded by brain frying posts... okay..... fuck this, I'm going back to the beach. Maybe I could play some ping pong, or golf, or even find a scooby doo van to take a drive in. Whatever. I'm out of here."

A wall won't do that for you.



Edit: Forgot to comment, best line of the show, something along the lines of:

"That map might not be to scale, it might not be accurate"

"Well, yes, John, it may not be as infallible as your magic stick..."

[Spiral Stairs]

As to the argument that the 1920's Style Force Field did not kill EPG immediately, and, thus, that the Losties could have run through it: If I recall correctly, EPG was thrown back after the force field was done with him. It appeared to be exerting physical control over him. He may have been seized in it while he was thanking all the little people who made it possible for him to be there.

[Merijeek]

Not a very active thread, considering.

Did the "Lost" creators blow their fans' goodwill by producing too many episodes that did nothing but spin their tires?

-Joe

[Labtrash]

I was hoping the birds would fly down & get fried like EPG.

I have a theory. Could it be that the same accident that got Locke's legs also involved Jack's wife?. (DISCLAIMER) I don't know enough about this series to justify it - just something I thought of last night.

Is this plausible?

[wasson]

I was hoping the birds would fly down & get fried like EPG.

I have a theory. Could it be that the same accident that got Locke's legs also involved Jack's wife?. (DISCLAIMER) I don't know enough about this series to justify it - just something I thought of last night.

Is this plausible?I doubt it... Jack's wife's accident was involved with Shannon's dad.... seems unlikely, even by Lost standards, that Locke would be there too.

[Algernon]

Not a very active thread, considering.

Did the "Lost" creators blow their fans' goodwill by producing too many episodes that did nothing but spin their tires? I'm a little surprized too. I get a lot of entertainment from these "Lost" threads. Not much action this time. Maybe everyone is busy with the NCAA games.

I read somewhere that viewership is down post-hiatus. In spite of the fact that in my opinion the post-hiatus episodes have been an order of magnitude better. These two things lead me to the conclusion that "Lost" lost a lot of fans.

[Merijeek]

I'm a little surprized too. I get a lot of entertainment from these "Lost" threads. Not much action this time. Maybe everyone is busy with the NCAA games.

I read somewhere that viewership is down post-hiatus. In spite of the fact that in my opinion the post-hiatus episodes have been an order of magnitude better. These two things lead me to the conclusion that "Lost" lost a lot of fans.

Well, sure, but pre-hiatus they managed to annoy a lot of people. Therefore, they didn't return after. I know I was only giving them a couple episodes before I quit. But they did well.

-Joe

[Cisco]

Did the "Lost" creators blow their fans' goodwill by producing too many episodes that did nothing but spin their tires?

Yes.

[Fiver]

I have a theory. Could it be that the same accident that got Locke's legs also involved Jack's wife?. (DISCLAIMER) I don't know enough about this series to justify it - just something I thought of last night.

Is this plausible?No, it's not possible within the established timeline. The accident that killed Shannon's father (and caused a spinal injury in the woman who became Jack's wife) happened two or three years before Oceanic 815 crashed.

But we know Locke had been in a wheelchair for four years when the plane crashed.

[cmkeller]

Merijeek:

Did the "Lost" creators blow their fans' goodwill by producing too many episodes that did nothing but spin their tires?

Am I the only one who didn't feel like the first six epsiodes of the season were "tire-spinning"? Here are some plot advancements that happened in the first six epsiodes:

1) Sawyer and Kate met Alex, which sets up Danielle's involvement in the current "better" episodes.
2) With all the "different groups of Others" theories that floated around, it pretty much clarified that the Others we already encountered pre-Season 3 (Ethan, Goodwin, Tom, "Henry Gale") all belong to the same group. We additionally confirm that the polar bears came from the Others' cages, and so did the shark.
3) We learned that the Others felt need to recruit a fertility specialist.
4) We learned that there is considerable dissent amongst the others regarding chain of command, something that no doubt will play an important part in the Losties' dealings with them
5) Jack played the Others and now has some degree of influence amongst them.
6) Sun killed one of the Others, directly leading to the events that got Juliet on their naughty list. Again, something we can expect to have an effect on the Losties' dealings with the Others
7) Locke regained his sense of faith in the island
8) Eko was killed by the monster, and more clues to the monster's abilities have been revealed

And that's just off the top of my head. With the exception of the Desmond episode, pretty much all the episodes that followed the hiatus have built on the developments above.

I, for one, never felt like they were "going nowhere."

[Merijeek]

I, for one, never felt like they were "going nowhere."

I disagree. If they raise more questions than they move forward on answers, I see it as going nowhere.

The fact of the matter is that it is much easier to come up with a way trippy mystery than it is to come up with an explanation that isn't crap.

I can understand how people get frustrated with all sorts of plots being layed out only to have them dropped for no good reason except that the writers have written themselves into a corner.

And to me, that seemed to happen a lot in Season Two and the opening of three. Weren't we promised some Earth-shattering revelations for the last episode before hiatus? And there was pretty much nothing.

People are drawn to mysteries because they want to figure them out. But I think people begin to resent it when mysteries they've speculated on, discussed, and put some real thought into get dropped because the writers got a little too clever with themselves.

-Joe

[Spiral Stairs]

... Weren't we promised some Earth-shattering revelations for the last episode before hiatus? And there was pretty much nothing. ...
One reason for discontent among fans is promotional overpromising like this. They try to get us excited about each episode -- as is their job -- but sometimes go too far. I'm thinking specifically of the episode where the promos stated that "three" important questions would be answered.

After the episode, people had trouble coming with two questions, whether important or unimportant, that were answered. (Wish I could remember which episode this was... Damned laziness prevents me from figuring it out.)

I do tend to be more satisfied, I think, when I don't have high expectations going into the episode. (For instance, I don't have particularly high expectations for nex week's. It should be interesting to find out what caused Locke's injury, but it hasn't been keeping me up at night. So if that's the big fact they're trumpeting, I'm thinking I'll learn little about what I really care about.)

[Hampshire]

I'm really enjoying this second half run of season 3. For me enough of the big questions have been answered so I know it's a real island with odd anomalies, there was a bunch of Dharma scientists doing weird experiments on the island, and now there is some weird cult living there. There rest now is filling in some explanations, surviving, and trying to get off the island.
I think some of the most disappointed people are the ones who were reading between the lines and making mysteries out of things where there were no mysteries. i.e. what's the significance of the name of a candy bar? what's the significance of the title of some books on a shelf? what's the acronym for this or that character's name?
I'll be in it now for the duration just to hang out with characters I like on weird sci-fi island following their adventures. If they stumble across some answers on the way.... well that's just a bonus.

[Merijeek]

I think some of the most disappointed people are the ones who were reading between the lines and making mysteries out of things where there were no mysteries. i.e. what's the significance of the name of a candy bar? what's the significance of the title of some books on a shelf? what's the acronym for this or that character's name?

Not necessarily.

I'd say I'm in the "moderately disappointed" department. I read some of the theories posted around the SDMB (so Claire's father wasn't much of a surprising reveal), but I don't go into the hard core net-nerd stuff.

That being said questions like...

1. How the Black Rock got to the middle of the island
2. Why children were stumbling through the jungle with tattered clothing and teddy bears
3. What is the deal with the magic smoke monster
4. How did anyone survive such an unsurvivable crash
5. Why the Others alternately toy with or run in terror (Caduceus station) from the Losties

...are not hard-core silliness that only the really obsessive nerds are interested in. These are very much questions that are central to the show (except the Black Rock - which is one of those tangential mysteries that are introduced and then ignored). And they pretty much just get forgotten by the writers.

-Joe

[Cisco]

We additionally confirm that the polar bears came from the Others' cages, and so did the shark.
What shark? I seem to vaguely remember a shark when they were on the raft at the end of season 1. I don't remember finding out where it came from?

Regarding the polar bears: Are we sure that's where they came from? How did they keep polar bears alive outdoors in the jungle heat? The more important question is why?

I'm pretty fed up with every episode being "THE ONE YOU. MUST. WATCH.™"

I'm dead sick of them introducing new mysteries when it's so obvious that they have no intentions of solving the ones already introduced. Why am I supposed to keep caring about weird shit when you're never going to tell me what it means? Nana nana boo boo.

I'm sick of the characters acting so stupid.

[Merijeek]

What shark? I seem to vaguely remember a shark when they were on the raft at the end of season 1. I don't remember finding out where it came from?


I think it was actually at the beginning of Season 2.

Anyways, simple deduction seems to indicate that the thing would have come from the aquarium that Jack was being held in.

-Joe

[Spiral Stairs]

...Regarding the polar bears: Are we sure that's where they came from? How did they keep polar bears alive outdoors in the jungle heat? The more important question is why? ...
I'm squarely in the frustrated camp too. However, as to the polar bears, we do have a little info about what is going on. The Big Hatch Door Diagram (http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/cleanwall-707484.jpg) suggests that a "stated goal" (presumably of Dharma) is "repatriation [and] accelerated de-territorialization of ursus maritus [polar bears] through gene therapy and extreme climate change."

So the poor sweaty bears are or were part of an experiment. Possibly in anticipation of global warming? Trying to ensure the survival of species that would otherwise die off in the face of warming?

Granted, only Lost nerds would know that at this point in the series (ahem), but it is something.

[Cisco]

I think it was actually at the beginning of Season 2.

Anyways, simple deduction seems to indicate that the thing would have come from the aquarium that Jack was being held in.

-Joe
Ah, I guess I didn't realize Jack was being held in an aquarium. So they had one shark and they dumped it in the open ocean in hopes that it would attack the castaways should one fall off of the raft? Sounds like a shot Carlos Hathcock would be proud of.

[Monstre]

Oh, yeah... about the bird. Wasn't that a seagull? Are seagulls migratory...?
Depends -- was it African or European? And was it carrying a coconut?

[Merijeek]

Ah, I guess I didn't realize Jack was being held in an aquarium. So they had one shark and they dumped it in the open ocean in hopes that it would attack the castaways should one fall off of the raft? Sounds like a shot Carlos Hathcock would be proud of.

Maybe the island is a huge Rube Goldberg device. Makes as much sense as anything else.

The shark bites the guy who lost his son who kills two girls who gets a boat who ditches his 'friends' who...

-Joe

[Monstre]

I got a hell of a laugh out of seeing with whom Jack was tossing the football around.
I found that amusing, too. Just a short month ago (Lost time) -- if that -- he was Bluebeard and threatening Jack in a ring of torches... "Don't cross this line, or else!"

Now he and Jack are tossing the pigskin around like old buddies.

[Broken Wind]

Depends -- was it African or European? And was it carrying a coconut?Stole my line, dammit. Monstre, I just noticed we share the same birthday. GO VIRGOS! And I still think black-haire Claire was hotter than Clairol Claire any day. Maybe it was the boots.

[StarvingButStrong]

Stole my line, dammit. Monstre, I just noticed we share the same birthday. GO VIRGOS! And I still think black-haire Claire was hotter than Clairol Claire any day. Maybe it was the boots.


Presumably it was black-haired Claire who was the Clairol user. Because if her hair was naturally dark, and they've been on the island for 80 days, she'd have dark roots nearly an inch and half long. :eek:

[Sam Stone]

Is it possible that Claire's accident was the same one that got Jack's wife, or the one that crippled Locke?

The police officer that came to see her told her she was hit by a van, and the whole matter was under control. But he was an awfully strange cop. He asked her a lot of questions, and seemed surprised to find out that Mom was alive. And he gave her a really creepy little smile at that. It also looked like there was going to be a serious investigation, but we never heard from the cops again. I'm thinking the cop was an 'other'. Those are the Whidmore industry folks, right? Desmond's girlfriend is young Whidmore. The people who recruited the doctor (already forgot her name)... All the same bunch. Right? This is clearly a large, very powerful organization. And they're convinced they are the 'good guys'. The opposition is Dharma - a strange 'initiative' doing very strange experiments. What does that mean?

Also, there are strange things going on with space and time here. Desmond didn't just flashback to the past, because he learned things there that let him predict the future. And he's using that power to save Charlie repeatedly. That's essentially messing with time. Maybe the cop was surprised that Mom was alive - because she wasn't supposed to be. Someone meddled.

Might the Dharma (Hanso Foundation) boys and the Whidmore boys (for lack of a better word - maybe just 'others') rival corporations? Or time travelers? Or an organization fighting some government research run amok?

But I think it's more than that. Don't be annoyed with not finding out more about the Black Rock - it's not a mystery to be solved, it's a piece to a puzzle. It's there to remind us that whatever strangeness is going on has been going on for a long time - same with the rag-tag kids with the teddy bear. I think there might be a third group of earlier-survivors-gone-native involved here somewhere.

Frankly, I'm half expecting to find out that there are aliens involved or something. That fence wasn't anything out of the General Dynamics or Lockheed inventory. And everyone seems really terrified of 'the big guy'. The reason I got an alien vibe was because of reading Have Space Suit - Will Travel as a kid. The 'big guy' is basically wormface, if you've read the book. So much more advanced and so threatening that just looking at him makes you feel like a paralyzed rabbit being stared at by a snake. EPG truly seemed to be grateful for having been killed - as did the woman he had to shoot. They really didn't want to have to explain their 'failure' to someone.

[OpalCat]

Can someone explain the Black Rock to me? What season was it from? I'm pretty sure I've seen all of 2 & 3 but I didn't see season 1... I just don't remember anything about a black rock. (But then, my memory for such things is iffy at best)

[Sam Stone]

The Black Rock (http://www.hanttula.com/projects/lost/supernatural-elements/the-black-rock)

[anamnesis]

Can we settle the whole Claire thing right here and now?

Brunettes always have been, and always will be, hotter than blondes.

:D

[Dewey Finn]

Is it possible that Claire's accident was the same one that got Jack's wife, or the one that crippled Locke?
I believe that Claire's accident was in Australia and the accident that crippled Jack's wife-to-be was in the US.

[Monstre]

Can someone explain the Black Rock to me? What season was it from? I'm pretty sure I've seen all of 2 & 3 but I didn't see season 1... I just don't remember anything about a black rock. (But then, my memory for such things is iffy at best)
Season 1. Danielle is the first to make a reference to it, I believe. In episode 8, when she captures Sayid (and when we first meet her). He's talking about hearing her distress call, and asking her about it -- and he's surprised to learn there's a radio tower on the island. She says it's up by the Black Rock.

Later, in the season finale, she tells the group that's where there's some explosives. "Dynamite. At the Black Rock. Past the dark territory." (Hurley: "Well, there's three reasons to go right there...")

In that episode, Jack, Locke, Kate, Hurley, Arzt -- they journey with Danielle to the Black Rock. And they find out that it's the name of an old ship, sitting in a clearing in the jungle. Perhaps an old slaver ship.

[Cervaise]

I was hoping the birds would fly down & get fried like EPG.I expected the giant creepy Hurley Bird (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Hurley_Bird) to burst out of the treetops and snatch the messenger bird out of the air.

[PerditaX]

Also, there are strange things going on with space and time here. Desmond didn't just flashback to the past, because he learned things there that let him predict the future. And he's using that power to save Charlie repeatedly. That's essentially messing with time.

Here's another in a series of theories/conjectures/whatever. Desmond seems to have acquired precognitive abilities after "the sky turned purple." Nobody else has, as far as we know. Desmond took those Dharma vaccines every day for three years. They clearly weren't about "quarantine," so what were they for? Was this the same stuff that was included in the food-drop? The same stuff Ethan injected into pregnant-Claire's belly? I'm still of the opinion that the Losties (including Desmond) are unwilling/unwitting lab-rats. Maybe the Dharmites (or their successors, whoever they are) experimenting with the possibility of inducing precog in people by means of this "vaccine." Maybe it didn't manifest until it was "triggered" by the EMP.

Boy, that sounds weird now that I've written it out.... :D

[rockle]

Can we settle the whole Claire thing right here and now?

Brunettes always have been, and always will be, hotter than blondes.Yes, but what if she had been a redhead at any point? Where does that measure on the Clairol Hotness Continuum?

[tanstaafl]

Exec Producers Carlton and Cuse were complaining on one of the podcasts about the "Big mysteries revealed" promos. They were saying that the promos for the latest Jack flashback episode was announcing three big reveals when they had never promised such a thing. Apparently ABC did the promo on their own without consulting them and they said it was things like that that made them look bad.

As for the shark, I read somewhere (I think it was over on The Fuselage but I can't find it right now) that the shark was really supposed to be just a shark but that someone in the group doing the CGI for it added the Dharma logo to it without telling anyone. The producers didn't even know it was there until people saw it and started posting about it. They were a bit peeved about that one too.

[Red Barchetta]

As for the shark, I read somewhere (I think it was over on The Fuselage but I can't find it right now) that the shark was really supposed to be just a shark but that someone in the group doing the CGI for it added the Dharma logo to it without telling anyone. The producers didn't even know it was there until people saw it and started posting about it. They were a bit peeved about that one too.

According to the special features on the Season 1 DVD, the Dharma logo was added to a mechanical shark as a joke (though I don't see why that'd be funny), but wasn't intended to be seen by viewers...

Of course, I'm pretty sure the writers/producers of Lost are full of shit anyway, so who knows which is true (though they did show the Dharma logo on the mechanical shark itself during the feature, IIRC).

[pinkfreud]

Can we settle the whole Claire thing right here and now?

Brunettes always have been, and always will be, hotter than blondes. Yes, but what if she had been a redhead at any point? Where does that measure on the Clairol Hotness Continuum?Yes, but what if she had been a redhead at any point? Where does that measure on the Clairol Hotness Continuum?Red hot. (http://www.mortalwombat.com/Special/red_claire.jpg)

But I may be biased, since I'm a redhead myself.

[simster]

As for Mrs. Klugh and EPG "thanking them" or "asking to be killed"... its simple... if we are to believe what happened to Desmond... those two just got a second chance... thier charectors we're respawned at the beginning of the game.

As for the fence... Locke pushed EPG thru with sufficient force that if a speedy dash were all taht was required, he would've survived... seems to me that as soon as he crossed the plane he was "trapped" unitl the fence recycled. _that_ wouldve been the moment to run thru, while the system reset.

I want to know more about the list, how it was compiled... this flashback further clarified the "daddy issues" premise for those left behind. What's it mean to be "on the list"... etc.

[rockle]

Red hot. (http://www.mortalwombat.com/Special/red_claire.jpg)

But I may be biased, since I'm a redhead myself.Glad to hear it, because so am I. (This month, anyway.)

[anamnesis]

Yes, Claire is still hot as a redhead. I never said brunettes were hotter than redheads, I said they were hotter than blondes. :p Emilie looks good with darker hair, IMHO ... her eyes are very bright and her skin is very fair and the light hair just washes out her whole look. All she needs is pink contact lenses and she'd be an albino. She may still be ditzy with darker hair, but she at least appears deeper.

How's that for judging by appearances? :D

[Carnick]

Exec Producers Carlton and Cuse were complaining on one of the podcasts about the "Big mysteries revealed" promos. They were saying that the promos for the latest Jack flashback episode was announcing three big reveals when they had never promised such a thing. Apparently ABC did the promo on their own without consulting them and they said it was things like that that made them look bad.
They're trying to blame that episode's horridness on ABC? That's funny. I never listen to promos anyway. Every episode is OMG MOST SHOCKING EPISODE EVAR!!! They'll stop making those when people stop getting fooled by them.

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure time travel is the key.

The Black Rock? Time travel.
Kidnapping children? Time travel has affected their ability to reproduce.
Locke and Rose magically healing? Time travel somehow reversed their ailments.
Desmond? 'Nuff said.
Walt? Stupid casting decision. I mean time travel.
Adam and Eve? Yep.
And so on.

[PerditaX]

All she needs is pink contact lenses and she'd be an albino.

/nitpick/
Human albinos have blue eyes, not pink. In people, the absence of pigment makes eyes blue (which is why many newborns have blue eyes, which change to other colors as they get older and pigment is produced). IANAA, but I know someone who is. She doesn't have especially good vision, but her eyes are blue, not pink.
/end nitpick/

[msmith537]

I found that amusing, too. Just a short month ago (Lost time) -- if that -- he was Bluebeard and threatening Jack in a ring of torches... "Don't cross this line, or else!"

Now he and Jack are tossing the pigskin around like old buddies.


Well, what the heck should Jack do? Here's are his choices:

1) Hang out and be cool

2) Go back to your cage

3) Try to escape the village of actual houses with running water and people who might actually have a way off the island so he can hang out on the other side of the same island with a bunch of dorks living in lean-tos who the Others can kill indescriminately at will

[Cisco]

/nitpick/
Human albinos have blue eyes, not pink. In people, the absence of pigment makes eyes blue (which is why many newborns have blue eyes, which change to other colors as they get older and pigment is produced). IANAA, but I know someone who is. She doesn't have especially good vision, but her eyes are blue, not pink.
/end nitpick/
I'm sure Edgar Winter (http://www.cordalisphotography.com/Images/jpegs/Edgar_Winter.jpg) would love to hear your pet theory.

[PerditaX]

I'm sure Edgar Winter (http://www.cordalisphotography.com/Images/jpegs/Edgar_Winter.jpg) would love to hear your pet theory.

Look up Albino in Wiki - there are several variant forms of albinism, only one of which, only occasionally, results in pink eyes. Edgar Winter is an albino and does have pink eyes, but blue eyes are more common.

Enough highjack - back to the topic at hand:

I don't think Locke's pushing EPG through the perimeter was suspicious except for the timing. I thought it made perfect sense, actually. EPG was a lying liar but was clearly not lying about wanting to kill them. It's only logical for Our Heroes to assume he was lying when he said that the perimeter was inactive. The best way to confirm this was to test it. And who better to be the "test subject" but EPG?

[well he's back]

My theory on Locke and the wheelchair: Locke blew up something important. When asked "WHY?" he just says, "sorry." Instead of replying "We'll talk about this later", the other person pushes him down the stairs.

[Monstre]

Well, what the heck should Jack do? Here's are his choices:
Hey, I never said he shouldn't -- just that I found it amusing.

And if there's any chance of Ben making good on his promise to send Jack home, I guess the best place to be is hanging around where Ben is until he gets well. Plus, they have running water and stuff, and back at his old beachfront tent, Sawyer is still banging his favorite gal (as far as he knows)...

[ZipperJJ]

Jack has a plan. A plan to get him and everyone else off the island.

But, when the rest of the Losties show up and try to "save" him, he's not going to tell them his plan and they will end up fucking everything up.

It's complicated.

[middleman]

While looking at the Hatch Map upthread, I noticed a comment about Dragons being on the island.

Any theories? Think that is the smoke monster?

It kind of looks dragonesque.

[Atrael]

Originally Posted by cmkeller
We additionally confirm that the polar bears came from the Others' cages, and so did the shark.

Unless I missed something, the cages are on the other island. The one where Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were being held was different from the "main" island where everyone lives.

[OpalCat]

polar bears can and do swim, though.

[Cervaise]

Maybe the sharks gave them a lift.

[middleman]

I had a few thoughts after digesting the most recent episode (actually, I was out of town, so I wathced the last two weeks back to back):

* Episodes where Sayid is a focal character are much better than ones where he is not.

* I got an Atlantis Risen vibe in the eye-patch's discussion of the others. Like they were ancient. This jives with the four toes statue,

* For some reason, I believe the Great One will be a character already introduced. My suspicion is, it will be Jack's dad. I certainly think he is still alive and seems to type to build a cult around himself.

[Cisco]

* Episodes where Sayid is a focal character are much better than ones where he is not.Is it just me or his accent getting worse and worse with every episode? I barely noticed it at the start of the series and now it's all I can think of when he's speaking. This jives with the four toes statue,
It jibes.

[Monstre]

* For some reason, I believe the Great One will be a character already introduced. My suspicion is, it will be Jack's dad. I certainly think he is still alive and seems to type to build a cult around himself.
Yeah, I've wondered that myself a few times. I think the fact that his body wasn't in the coffin early in season 1 when Jack went looking... that seems to be a big clue that Christian Shephard may still be alive. He certainly seems to be a central character for being dead, and he's become the most common element in different people's flashbacks.

[middleman]

It jibes.

I debated between the two. I made an error, but in the spirit of today's political climate, I stand by that decision without apology! :D*

Yeah, I've wondered that myself a few times. I think the fact that his body wasn't in the coffin early in season 1 when Jack went looking... that seems to be a big clue that Christian Shepherd may still be alive. He certainly seems to be a central character for being dead, and he's become the most common element in different people's flashbacks.

No doubt. He's been in four different characters' flashbacks by my count.

Jack, obviously. Ana-Lucia. Claire. Sawyer.

Plus, he was a "mirage" on the island.

Even if dead, he's clearly involved. A reckless, take no prisoners, god-complex, uber-brilliant doctor like Christian Shepherd is surely involved with a group of scientists bent on saving the world by any means necessary.

Wouldn't Jack's dad fit in perfectly with Benry, Blonde Hottie From Gia, Ethan and the guy played by Brett Cullen who got turned into a shish kabob?


*Well. At the very least, I will say, that if I knew then, what I know now, I would have never typed the word jives.

[Cisco]

Edgar Winter is an albino and does have pink eyes, but blue eyes are more common.
So then don't post things like this:
/nitpick/
Human albinos have blue eyes, not pink. as if they were true and you knew what you were talking about.

[Skott]

For some reason, I believe the Great One will be a character already introduced. My suspicion is, it will be Jack's dad. I certainly think he is still alive and seems to type to build a cult around himself.
I keep hearing the Other's talk about Him in such glowing terms, and clearly Jack's dad is no glowing character, unless you want your surgeon to be drunk while operating.

Personally, I think He is the BSM. Here, you have a being who can transmorgrify into people, animals, black smoke, and even the Hand of God ;) ... who can download your brain and determine whether you are "good" or "bad" (wonder if the BSM can transmorgrify into Robot Santa?), and who can read your mind and get inside your dreams. If that's not the most magnificent living thing on Earth, and thus prime candidate for Him, then I'd hate to find out what's more impressive that inspires such awe in the Others.

[Frylock]

So then don't post things like this:
as if they were true and you knew what you were talking about.

Nono.

Albinos typically are blue-eyed. This means it is fair to say "Albinos have blue eyes." It takes something extra, over and above albinism, to give someone red eyes.

-FrL-

[Oslo Ostragoth]

I keep hearing the Other's talk about Him in such glowing terms, and clearly Jack's dad is no glowing character, unless you want your surgeon to be drunk while operating.

Personally, I think He is the BSM. Here, you have a being who can transmorgrify into people, animals, black smoke, and even the Hand of God ;) ... who can download your brain and determine whether you are "good" or "bad" (wonder if the BSM can transmorgrify into Robot Santa?), and who can read your mind and get inside your dreams. If that's not the most magnificent living thing on Earth, and thus prime candidate for Him, then I'd hate to find out what's more impressive that inspires such awe in the Others.BSM?

[SenorBeef]

Black smoke monster, I'm guessing.

[Cisco]

Nono.

Albinos typically are blue-eyed. This means it is fair to say "Albinos have blue eyes." It takes something extra, over and above albinism, to give someone red eyes.

-FrL-
From here: (http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/birth_defect/albinism.html) In some cases of albinism, a kid's eyes might appear pink or reddish. This isn't because the iris (the colored part of the eye) is pink or red. It's because the iris actually has very little color. The eyes appear pink or red because the blood vessels inside of the eye (on the retina) show through the iris.
From here: (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=182031&lastnode_id=169667) there may be so little melanin in the iris that it becomes translucent or transparent. This makes the blood vessels within the eyeball visible, causing the iris itself to appear red or pink.
From here: (http://www.answers.com/topic/albinism) In humans with generalized, or total, albinism, the affected person has milk-white skin and hair; the iris of the eye appears pink, the pupil red.
From here: (http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9005455/albinism) Albinism is a hereditary condition in humans and other vertebrates. In generalized, or total albinism, the affected person has milk-white skin and hair, though the skin may be slightly pinkish in colour owing to underlying blood vessels. The iris of the eye appears pink, while the pupil itself appears red from light reflected by blood in the unpigmented choroid.

And to conclude my riposte, I offer you in turn the battle cry of the SDMB: Cite?

[Frylock]

From here: (http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/health_problems/birth_defect/albinism.html)
From here: (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=182031&lastnode_id=169667)
From here: (http://www.answers.com/topic/albinism)
From here: (http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9005455/albinism)

And to conclude my riposte, I offer you in turn the battle cry of the SDMB: Cite?

A. Actually, I was just trying to explain what that other guy was saying, though I see, upon reading my post, that I phrased it as though it were my own view I was giving expression to.

B. The wikipedia article has already been cited. It says there that reddish eyes are the exception, rather than the rule. Furthermore, some of the statements you quoted also count as cites for "me" because:

C. The statements you've cited don't support your contention (which I think is the contention that) albinos typically have reddish eyes.

-FrL-

[Algernon]

I keep hearing the Other's talk about Him in such glowing terms...Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't the Others talk about Him in fearful terms? They're scared to death of Him. To the point of begging to be shot if they've failed in their duties. I think He is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality.

[MissRancher]

Desmond seems to have acquired precognitive abilities after "the sky turned purple." Nobody else has, as far as we know.

I was thinking that Locke gained some of those abilities too, but didn't tell anyone about it - which is why he grabbed the C4 and pushed EPG through the fence.

[UncleRojelio]

I was thinking that Locke gained some of those abilities too, but didn't tell anyone about it - which is why he grabbed the C4 and pushed EPG through the fence.Naw, that can't be right. It would make too much sense.

[middleman]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't the Others talk about Him in fearful terms? They're scared to death of Him. To the point of begging to be shot if they've failed in their duties. I think He is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality.

Have you heard Southern Baptists talk about God? :D

[Skott]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but don't the Others talk about Him in fearful terms? They're scared to death of Him. To the point of begging to be shot if they've failed in their duties. I think He is more likely a Devil-like personality than a God-like personality.
I'd say reverential fear:

[T]the man who brought me here... who brought all of my people here... He's a magnificent man.He is a great man, a brilliant man, but not a forgiving man.
(And we saw how forgiving the BSM was with Eko, as further evidence.)

Lostpedia has an anaylisis (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Him/Theories) of just about everyone who could possibly be Him. They pretty much discount my BSM = Him hypothesis (BSM is Black Smoke Monster, sorry) based on the idea that it's been implied that BSM is a non-cognitive security system (which I disagree with); however, they do allow for the idea that BSM is being controlled by Him. None of the other people mentioned, though, seem to be plausible candidates (the evidence for Jacob or DeGroot is minimal at best). It could certainly be that the Others think of a non-cognitive security system with amazing powers as an entity they call Him.

[Cisco]

B. The wikipedia article has already been cited. It says there that reddish eyes are the exception, rather than the rule. Furthermore, some of the statements you quoted also count as cites for "me" because:

C. The statements you've cited don't support your contention (which I think is the contention that) albinos typically have reddish eyes.
Please please please point out to me where I said albinos typically have reddish eyes. I've always wanted to see me say something I didn't say.

Now if you're interested in what I actually said (since you couldn't be bothered to read the thread), it was just this: PerditaX "/nitpicked/" the "fact" that albinos have blue eyes, not pink. I pointed out that he/she was wrong by posting a picture of the famous pink-eyed albino Edgar Winter and would have left it at that. However, he or she came back with a persnickety response that I needed to go read "Wiki" to learn about albinos. I felt like this was uncalled for because I wasn't the one who posted erroneous information about them.

[wasson]

None of the other people mentioned, though, seem to be plausible candidates (the evidence for Jacob or DeGroot is minimal at best). It could certainly be that the Others think of a non-cognitive security system with amazing powers as an entity they call Him.I'm pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is "Him". Still doesn't help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though.

[Cisco]

I'm pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is "Him". Still doesn't help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though.
Please box these types of spoilers, with a general idea of what's inside the box and where you got it from.

[wasson]

Well, it wasn't really a spoiler... my point was that the Jacob/Him thing has pretty much been settled by the producers themselves, so there's really not a point in speculating about it anymore. I thought it was pretty clear from the show, myself, but now the producers have outright said it to clear the air.

[middleman]

Jacob is a very biblical name.

As is Christian Shepherd.

[Skott]

I'm pretty sure on the podcast, the producers say outright that Jacob is "Him". Still doesn't help us figure out who in the world Jacob is, though.
Shows what I get for not watching podcasts :D However, if all they said was "Jacob is Him", then that's almost irrelevant information, since, as you said, we have no idea who Jacob is. And if we've seen him any of the previous episodes, then I say speculation is still open, only that we can replace "Him" with Jacob.

So who's Abraham? ;)

[Gfactor]

Shows what I get for not watching podcasts :D However, if all they said was "Jacob is Him", then that's almost irrelevant information, since, as you said, we have no idea who Jacob is.

Right. That's all they said.

[middleman]

Shows what I get for not watching podcasts :D However, if all they said was "Jacob is Him", then that's almost irrelevant information, since, as you said, we have no idea who Jacob is. And if we've seen him any of the previous episodes, then I say speculation is still open, only that we can replace "Him" with Jacob.

So who's Abraham? ;)

I think it is possible that Issac is the sole survivor of a luxury liner that crashed onto the island.

[Cisco]

Well, it wasn't really a spoiler... my point was that the Jacob/Him thing has pretty much been settled by the producers themselves, so there's really not a point in speculating about it anymore. I thought it was pretty clear from the show, myself, but now the producers have outright said it to clear the air.
But they didn't say it on the show. Many of us only watch the show. And a Lost podcast is not exactly ABC World News Tonight.

[wasson]

But they didn't say it on the show. Many of us only watch the show. And a Lost podcast is not exactly ABC World News Tonight.It's an official ABC podcast with the directors and writers of the show, so I suspect it's a pretty accurate source.

So let's say you missed last week's episode of the show. Are we not allowed to discuss it because it would be a spoiler for you? Same deal with the podcast. You missed it, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist or that the information was inaccurate.

[Cisco]

So let's say you missed last week's episode of the show. Are we not allowed to discuss it because it would be a spoiler for you? Same deal with the podcast. You missed it, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist or that the information was inaccurate.
Not the same deal at all. If I missed last week's episode I would not read the thread about it until I got a chance to see it. I didn't "miss" the podcast. I deliberately avoid things like that to further enhance my enjoyment of the show.
It's an official ABC podcast with the directors and writers of the show, so I suspect it's a pretty accurate source.
That's exactly why it should be spoiler-boxed. If it was a rumor I wouldn't care so much because there would be a good chance it wasn't true.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Information about future episodes taken from spoiler sites/inside sources will be boxed.
Speculation based on spoilers for upcoming episodes will be boxed.It seems to me that the ABC podcast would fall under either of these categories. I'd also appreciate a spoiler box for information taken from the podcast.

--FCOD

[wasson]

It seems to me that the ABC podcast would fall under either of these categories. I'd also appreciate a spoiler box for information taken from the podcast.

1. It's not information about "future episodes".

2. It's not speculation.

3. It doesn't deal with upcoming episodes.

C'mon guys, this is silly. The producers, in an officially sanctioned and sponsored podcast confirmed something that was heavily, heavily implied in the show. This isn't speculation or a spoiler... it's a fact, so let's move on. Good? Good.

[Cervaise]

So who's Abraham?You are, number eight fifteen.

[Cisco]

The producers, in an officially sanctioned and sponsored podcast confirmed something that was heavily, heavily implied in the show. This isn't speculation or a spoiler... it's a fact, so let's move on. Good? Good.
Do you read English? This is exactly why we don't want to hear it. What don't you get?

[wasson]

Do you read English? This is exactly why we don't want to hear it. What don't you get?I guess I don't get why you're so opposed to hearing a fact and continuing to speculate on something that's already been answered?

I also don't get why you chose a Lost thread to discuss albinos and correct people on "jibe" vs. "jive". But that's beside the point, I guess.

[Bosstone]

Presuming for the moment that the writers know what they're doing...

Isn't it possible that, by releasing such information publicly -- and given that the podcast is freely available to anyone who wants to listen, that qualifies as public -- the show's creators have figured that knowing this information now will most likely not harm your enjoyment of the show? Given how stingy they are with answers, I should think that any answers they do give are quite deliberately timed.

I really think "His" name, alone and without context other than that already presented in the show, has very little impact on the show's plot or one's understanding of it. Otherwise they would not have A) released the name B) in an optional venue.

I realize some people desire to know absolutely nothing beyond what's presented to them in the show no matter how little impact -- I have a friend like that -- but it's not really something to freak out about.

[Cisco]

I guess I don't get why you're so opposed to hearing a fact and continuing to speculate on something that's already been answered?
Because some of us only watch the show and avoid facts that are revealed outside of it. How do you not get that? What you posted is the very definition of a spoiler and all I did was politely ask you to box those types of posts. The OP politely asks the same.
I also don't get why you chose a Lost thread to discuss albinos and correct people on "jibe" vs. "jive". But that's beside the point, I guess.Oh, I don't know. If I had to guess, though, it'd be because we're on a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance. If that bothers you then why are you here?

[Cisco]

I realize some people desire to know absolutely nothing beyond what's presented to them in the show no matter how little impactThen you should understand the purpose of politely asking that people use spoiler boxes. They are really quite simple to employ.

I didn't watch any of those "Behind Hobbiton" or "Journey into Middle-Earth" specials when the LotR movies were being released. They were "public information" but I felt that they would hinder my enjoyment of the films and therefore chose not to watch them. Due to the explicit statements in the OP, I didn't feel like I was at risk for spoilers in this thread. Wasson decided to make that choice for me.

[wasson]

Wow dude, you're blowing it way out of proportion. I certainly followed the rules of the thread and don't consider what I posted to be a spoiler in any way, shape or form.

But since I'm a team player, I'll humbly apologize. I assure you I'll never post anything from a podcast without a spoiler box again, regardless as to how little impact it has on anything at all.

Enjoy tonight's episode, kids. I'm sure it'll be a good one. I hope that doesn't need a spoiler box...

[Monstre]

1. It's not information about "future episodes".
Actually, it is a spoiler likely pertaining to future episodes if it's information from an inside source that hasn't been 100% confirmed by already aired episodes of the show itself.

Yes, the show has implies that perhaps "Him" is somebody named Jacob. If I recall, this mostly comes from Pickett's comment saying, "He wasn't on Jacob's list." (I think it was Pickett that said it...)

But that statement doesn't confirm or disconfirm the expression "Jacob == Him". For all we know from the show itself, Jacob could be Him's secretary -- Keeper of the Magic List and Typer of HimMemos.

Just because something is a fact (from a producer podcast) doesn't mean it isn't a spoiler. A spoiler doesn't have to be speculation -- a spoiler is something that comes from an inside source. In fact, I'd care less about hearing speculations than about "facts" from inside sources. What if the producers did a podcast next week and said, "Hey, the smoke monster? It's really Old Man Withers!!! HA!" It hasn't aired on the show yet, so as far as these threads are concerned, it would be a spoiler. The show's producers are the ultimate "inside source" -- can't get much more inside than that.

I realize some people desire to know absolutely nothing beyond what's presented to them in the show no matter how little impact -- I have a friend like that -- but it's not really something to freak out about.
Didn't look like anybody was freaking out to me. Just looked like some people were asking other people to please not post spoilers (i.e. knowledge from inside sources) in these threads, as per the thread rules. Not an unreasonable request, IMHO.

However, if people want to argue about albinos, they should definitely take it to another thread.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Wow dude, you're blowing it way out of proportion. I certainly followed the rules of the thread and don't consider what I posted to be a spoiler in any way, shape or form.No, you didn't. No matter what they imply in the show, if the producers say something is a fact before it's fact on the show, it's a spoiler.But since I'm a team player, I'll humbly apologize. I assure you I'll never post anything from a podcast without a spoiler box again, regardless as to how little impact it has on anything at all.

Enjoy tonight's episode, kids. I'm sure it'll be a good one. I hope that doesn't need a spoiler box...Talk about blowing things out of proportion...

--FCOD

[PerditaX]

So then don't post things like this:
as if they were true and you knew what you were talking about.

I think I was trying to get back on topic. This doesn't belong in this thread, and the baiting and insulting is really not necessary. If it's that important to you to show the SDMB that you're smarter than me, go ahead. I really don't care what you think.

So can you please just let it go!

[Cisco]

I think I was trying to get back on topic. This doesn't belong in this thread, and the baiting and insulting is really not necessary. If it's that important to you to show the SDMB that you're smarter than me, go ahead. I really don't care what you think.

So can you please just let it go!
I'm not baiting you and please point out where I insulted you? You posted false information on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance and got peeved when I corrected you. You're obviously very concerned with getting the last word in so please feel free to start a new thread. I don't think anyone else wants to hear it in this one.

[anamnesis]

I'm never going to bring up albinos again. I seem to end up saying that about a lot of SDMB discussion topics ... if that's what you could fucking call them half the time.

[Frylock]

Please please please point out to me where I said albinos typically have reddish eyes. I've always wanted to see me say something I didn't say.

Ridiculous. :mad: I noted in the post you are responding too, parenthetically, that I think you are claiming albinos typically have blue eyes. I was, in that very post, giving you the opportunity to correct such a misunderstanding if a misunderstanding it was. There is no need for me to "prove" you said anything since I was, in effect, asking whether you in fact said what I was thinking you had said.

Don't be an ass.

Now:

Someone said "All she needs is pink eyes and she'd be an albino."

PerditaX said "Actually, albinos have blue eyes, not pink."

As we all know that some albinos have pink eyes, it is fair to judge the meaning of this statement to be "Albinos typically have blue eyes."

You then posted a picture of Edgar Winter, contextualized as though somehow to refute PerditaX's statement. Since what PerditaX said was clearly meant to mean "Albinos typically have blue eyes," it is a fair interpretation of your Winter post that you meant to say "Albinos in fact typically have pink eyes."

PerditaX then responded, incidentally making it utterly clear that his meaning had been that albinos typically have blue eyes, by saying your picture did not do anything relevant to a refutation of his claim.

You continued to argue, however. You seemed to be arguing (based on the four cites you gave in one of your posts) either that Albinos typically have pink eyes, or always have pink eyes, or never have blue eyes. I could not tell which claim you were trying to argue for, though I took the first to be most likely. Otherwise it is difficult for me to understand why you continued to argue, and why you used the cites you did as support for your argument. Why give us cites associating pink eyes with Albinism, in a conversation where no one has denied that albinos sometimes have pink eyes, unless you're trying to argue either that albinos typically rather than simply "sometimes" have pink eyes, or else that albinos always rather than simply "sometimes" have pink eyes.

-FrL-

[Cisco]

Open up a new thread if you want a response, Frylock*. I'm not going to continue this hijack.

*preferably in the pit so I can tell you how I feel about you calling me an ass in Cafe Society

[Frylock]

Open up a new thread if you want a response, Frylock*. I'm not going to continue this hijack.

*preferably in the pit so I can tell you how I feel about you calling me an ass in Cafe Society

Go for it. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=413425)

:dubious: ;)

-FrL-

[Farmwoman]

Now my eyes are pink.

[anamnesis]

I like how immediately after I apologize for bringing up the subject of albinos, I get referred to in the next post as the "someone" who brought it up. You know a thread has completely degenerated when the person originally responsible for the conflict is long forgotten because the combatants are too busy trying to kill each other.

[Bryan Ekers]

You know a thread has completely degenerated when the person originally responsible for the conflict is long forgotten because the combatants are too busy trying to kill each other.
You mean the thread is.... lost?

[SkipMagic]

Don't be an ass.
Frylock, personal insults are not allowed in Cafe Society. If you wanna vent about another poster, take it to the Pit.

[John Mace]

Actually, it is a spoiler likely pertaining to future episodes if it's information from an inside source that hasn't been 100% confirmed by already aired episodes of the show itself.
I tend to agree with this. Should I add that to the thread rules: Please spoiler all information from the podcasts? Then people can decide for themselves if they want to be exposed to that information. I don't mind it much, myself, but I can see where others might.

[Merijeek]

I like how immediately after I apologize for bringing up the subject of albinos, I get referred to in the next post as the "someone" who brought it up. You know a thread has completely degenerated when the person originally responsible for the conflict is long forgotten because the combatants are too busy trying to kill each other.


(steeples fingers together)

Eeeexcelent, Smithers. My plan is working perfectly.

-Joe

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I tend to agree with this. Should I add that to the thread rules: Please spoiler all information from the podcasts? Then people can decide for themselves if they want to be exposed to that information. I don't mind it much, myself, but I can see where others might.Please do. Thanks!

--FCOD

[OpalCat]

Yes, I vote for that, too. I avoid the podcasts because I don't want inside information that isn't revealed in the show.