Valerie Plame testifies

[BrainGlutton]

Plame testified today before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600276.html) Key points:

1. Despite rumors to the contrary, she played no part in the decision to send her husband, Joe Wilson, to Nigeria to check out the "yellowcake" report.

2. Plame served as "a covert operations office for the Central Intelligence Agency" before the leak and that her "affiliation with the CIA was classified." She said she helped manage "secret worldwide operations" against Iraq's presumed weapons of mass destruction program from CIA headquarters and "traveled to foreign countries on secret missions to find vital intelligence."

3. Her employment "was not common knowledge on the Georgetown cocktail circuit."

Does anyone still think this was all a tempest in a teapot?

(The Freepers do, (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1801977/posts) no surprises there.)

[PatriotX]

I thought that the change in Toensing's tone under oath was telling.

Under oath Toensing said that Plame was not covert according to "the statute" only because the CIA was not taking enough affirmative measures to protect her identity. Toensing said that the CIA should have sent the DCI instead of the CIA spokesman to tell Novak not to publish.

[gonzomax]

She was a long time agent. She was part of a fake business used as a front. Every body that used that front has been exposed. Everyone that associated with her abroad or here is under suspicion by other governments. There has been serious damage and I think a crime committed.

[FRDE]

She was a long time agent. She was part of a fake business used as a front. Every body that used that front has been exposed. Everyone that associated with her abroad or here is under suspicion by other governments. There has been serious damage and I think a crime committed.

Probably the people who needed to know, knew all about her and the rest of them. My uncle used to move in Diplomatic circles, his USA representative was 'ex US Foreign Service' which was about as convincing as the Bulgarian Cultural Attache who enjoyed picking my uncle's brains over an Indian.

Not that briefing against her was not both stupid and spiteful.
- also I should imagine that some people are going to run into seven years of bad luck :)

[Hamlet]

So far, the most interesting part, to me, was these statements by Waxman:

"I have been advised by the CIA and that even now, after all that has happened, I cannot disclose the full nature, scope and character of Ms. Wilson's service to our nation without causing serious damage to our national security interests.

But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.

Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14, Step 6, under the federal pay scale.

Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA.

Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA. "

What is sad is that none of this will matter. Rush, Hannity, Toensing, and those unthinking masses who believe them, will insist she didn't meet the statutory definition of covert, that the investigation was a sham, that Libby's lies weren't material, and that nothing was wrong with outing her. While it is nice to have some more facts presented, and I sincerely hope the hearings change some minds of those who can think for themselves, I just don't see anything really changing, whether in this administration or its supporters. They've had their talking points for years now, and nothing is going to change their mind.

[crowmanyclouds]

Even she can't talk about what she did for the CIA,Intel: A Writer's Blocked (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16498076/site/newsweek/)
Newsweek
Jan. 15, 2007 issue

A CIA panel has told former officer Valerie Plame she can't write about her undercover work for the agency ... Plame recently hired a lawyer to challenge the CIA Publications Review Board, which must clear writings by former employees. The panel refused Plame permission to even mention that she worked for the CIA because she served as a "nonofficial cover" officer (or NOC) posing as a private businesswoman, according to an adviser to Plame, who asked not to be identified discussing a sensitive issue. "She believes this will effectively gut the book," said the adviser. ...CMC fnord!

[RTFirefly]

The WaPo is finding new ways to Make Shit Up about Valerie Plame Wilson.

At the top of the front page of today's Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/print/asectionfrontimage.html) (warning: link is only good for today), there's a photo of Plame entering the hearing room.

The caption: “Valerie Plame strolls into the hearing room, the only sound the paparazzi’s shutters. For three years, she kept a public silence about the Bush Administration; now she savors her revenge. Washington Sketch, A2.” (Bolding mine.)

Heres the link to Dana Milbank's Washington Sketch (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031601953.html) on page A2. I sure can't find a thing in there that would suggest Plame regards her testimony as revenge, let alone whether she's savoring it.

What a worthless paper.

[BMalion]

I'll say one thing.


I think she's hot.

[elucidator]

Yes, but that's classified.

[AskNott]

The core issue is this:

Someone, in the White House and perhaps in an undisclosed location, decided that ruining the career of a longtime US spy and her entire network meant nothing, compared to exposing the lies this war was based on. Ms. Plame, and her WMD mission, were mere elephant fodder. Before Scooter Libby fell on his sword, a crucial web of spies were run through with a White House sword.

[Lakai]

The WaPo is finding new ways to Make Shit Up about Valerie Plame Wilson.

[snip]

What a worthless paper.

Weren't they the ones that uncovered Watergate? Not being from D.C. I don't know too much about their credibility.

Now if we look at the pathetic New York Post headline. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03072007/postopinion/editorials/free_scooter_libby_editorials_.htm)

The editorial seems to be saying that there is a left wing conspiracy to use a phony charge of lying under oath for political gain. Of course we all know that lying under oath is only bad if you want to cover up a blow job. Lying under oath about revealing a covert CIA agent obviously deserves a pardon.

Worthless paper indeed.

[PatriotX]

Weren't they the ones that uncovered Watergate? Not being from D.C. I don't know too much about their credibility.

Now if we look at the pathetic New York Post headline. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03072007/postopinion/editorials/free_scooter_libby_editorials_.htm)

The editorial seems to be saying that there is a left wing conspiracy to use a phony charge of lying under oath for political gain. Of course we all know that lying under oath is only bad if you want to cover up a blow job. Lying under oath about revealing a covert CIA agent obviously deserves a pardon.

Worthless paper indeed.
Quite a number of people don't realize that the WH was leaking previously and independently

[Scylla]

I've been involved in long debate with many of you as whether or not Valerie Plame was "covert."

I'd just like to point out the incontrovertible fact that there is no way in hell you can be covert when you are that hot.

[crowmanyclouds]

... I'd just like to point out the incontrovertible fact that there is no way in hell you can be covert when you are that hot.Is that a spy detector ya got there in your pants, or are ya just happy to see her?

:D
CMC fnord!

[Hamlet]

I've been involved in long debate with many of you as whether or not Valerie Plame was "covert."

I'd just like to point out the incontrovertible fact that there is no way in hell you can be covert when you are that hot.First, I think it's spelled "hawt". Second, did any of the testimony and statements convince you about Plame's status?

[ElvisL1ves]

I'd just like to point out the incontrovertible fact that there is no way in hell you can be covert when you are that hot.See? That simply demonstrates how effective hotness can be as a cover.

[GIGObuster]

First, I think it's spelled "hawt". Second, did any of the testimony and statements convince you about Plame's status?
I think it was a joke from Scylla , but just in case there is someone taking that line seriously, I do think Valerie Plame fitted the stereotype of a career woman that had the means to look good at the executive level (let us not forget what her cover was).

But for me it will always remain the height of shamelessness to see still the right wing media continue to report on Plame by ignoring the facts of the case, even I can remember several items that if they had been true they would had derailed the case a long time ago, or that now the congress critters could have shamed the CIA guys about those inconvenient "facts" or the White House staffers would had reminded the congress about those “facts”

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/3/18/20847/0873

What I get from the hearings is that the Status of Valerie Plame being cover is not an issue at all, Republican representatives like Tom Davis had to come with new pathetic excuses to minimize the fact that they never bothered to investigate what had occurred while they had the power.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/16/122645/030

I think it will remain an eternal shame for many right wing posters why is that they never demanded their sources to be indeed fair and balanced or to demand them at least to be accurate when inconvenient facts appeared to then contradict what it was supposed to happen (day in and day out they reported that this case was not important or that it was going to be dismissed soon by the new “evidence” they reported it existed), failing at least that, I would have dumped them a long time ago as trusted sources, like I do even with lefty sources that play loose with the facts.

[Scylla]

First, I think it's spelled "hawt". Second, did any of the testimony and statements convince you about Plame's status?

Yeah. There's no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin.

[GIGObuster]

Yeah. There's no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin.
:confused:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/hayden-cia-plame-covert/
CIA Director Hayden: ‘Wilson Was Covert’
During House hearings today, Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) announced that CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden recently told Reps. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) that there was no doubt Victoria Plame Wilson was covert. Cummings — relaying what Waxman had told him — said that Gen. Hayden expressed clearly and directly, “Ms. Wilson was covert.”

Cummings also asked Wilson to respond to the specific claim, made by Victoria Toensing and others, that Plame had lost her covert status because she “had not been stationed abroad within five years.” Cummings asked, “During the past five years, Ms. Plame, from today, did you conduct secret missions overseas?” She answered, “Yes I did, congressman.”

[Hamlet]

:confused:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/hayden-cia-plame-covert/He got me too. I guess meeting the statutory definition of covert agent isn't sufficient to be a covert agent.

[Polycarp]

You know, once upon a time the Republican Party stood for a strong defense against enemies foreign and domestic, small government, freedom for American citizens, remaining within the bounds of the Constitution, other laudable ideals. My parents and I were proud to be members of the G.O.P. Today it stands for the antithesis of all the above, as is evidenced by everything that has come out in this and all the related investigations -- it's all about using any means, no matter how despicable, to hang onto the reins of power. And I hope it is thoroughly destroyed as a result of all this -- and the few good Republicans who remain help to form a new party devoted to some of what Republicanism was good for, back when it was a decent organization. :mad:

[Scylla]

You know, once upon a time the Republican Party stood for a strong defense against enemies foreign and domestic, small government, freedom for American citizens, remaining within the bounds of the Constitution, other laudable ideals.

Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad.

[RickJay]

Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad.
What a sad reply.

The Republicans are making the Republicans look bad. Wouldn't matter what the Democrats did. Outing your own country's covert agents, and hurting your own country's national security, for a political advantage makes you look bad. You really don't need a political opponent to point it out.

[Frostillicus]

Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad.


You gotta admit that the Repubs are doing an awfully good job of making themselves look bad without any help from "the left".

[GIGObuster]

Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad.
When they had the power, they did not bother to investigate what was going on, far from it; according to the last Republican congress, only Baseball Players did need to be be put under oath. :)

Republicans are looking bad because of what they did and what they did not do. And it is not true to say that the left does not stand for something.

[PatriotX]

Yeah. There's no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin.
Which part?


Plame hearing transcript (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Plame_hearing_transcript_0316.html)
Plame hearing transcript #2 (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Plame_hearing_transcript_2_0316.html)

[dropzone]

If hotness was a disqualifier for covert work, we wouldn't have a (two click rule) Hedy Lamarr (http://www.douglass.co.uk/webpromote/celebs/oops_h.htm) or, even, a cute, but mostly just slutty, Mata Hari. (http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/MT19_SS/MT19.html)

[RTFirefly]

Yeah. There's no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin.Well, duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh. At the time of her outing, she's outed and by definition no longer covert.

[ElvisL1ves]

Once upon a time the left stood for something besides trying to make Republicans look bad.What was it, and when? :dubious:

[ElvisL1ves]

Yeah. There's no way she was covert at the time of the outing. Her own testimony to the contrary put the nail in that coffin.Where the holy fuck do you get that from? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/plame/plame_transcript_031607.html) Same place as Sam? The CIA Director himself says otherwise:(WAXMAN) This hearing is being conducted in open session. This is appropriate, but it is also challenging. Ms. Wilson was a covert employee of the CIA. We cannot discuss all of the details of her CIA employment in open session.

I have met, personally, with General Hayden, the head of the CIA, to discuss what I can and cannot say about Ms. Wilson's service.

And I want to thank him for his cooperation and help in guiding us along these lines.

My staff has also worked with the agency to ensure these remarks do not contain classified information.

I have been advised by the CIA and that even now, after all that has happened, I cannot disclose the full nature, scope and character of Ms. Wilson's service to our nation without causing serious damage to our national security interests.

But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.

At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information. May we expect you not to repeat that long-cherished lie? May we expect you to be more critical in the future of the sources who've spread that lie?


But wait, there's more:
Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA, in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14, Step 6, under the federal pay scale.

Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA.

Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA.

Without discussing the specifics of Ms. Wilson's classified work, it is accurate to say that she worked on the prevention of the development and use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States.

This disclosure of Ms. Wilson's classified employment status with the CIA was so detrimental that the CIA filed a crimes report with the Department of Justice.

As I mentioned, Ms. Wilson's work was so sensitive that even now she is still prohibited from discussing many details of her work in public because of the continuing risks to CIA officials and assets in the field and to the CIA's ongoing work. Rove, Cheney, and Libby made us less safe simply as an act of personal spite. How else can you read that? Is there any way to excuse it even in part?

Some have suggested that Ms. Wilson did not have a sensitive position with the CIA or a position of unusual risk. As a CIA employee, Ms. Wilson has taken a lifelong oath to protect classified information, even after her CIA employment has ended. As a result, she cannot respond to most of the statements made about her.

I want to make clear, however, that any characterization that minimizes the personal risk of Ms. Wilson that she accepted in her assignments is flatly wrong. There should be no confusion on this point.

[Muffin]

During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.What the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.

It's time to shit or get off the pot when it comes to dealing with Bush -- impeach him.

[Evil Captor]

I have maintained all along that whatever the legal niceties of the Valerie Plame outing, it was in plain simple fact an act of treason against the United States. I feel very vindicated.

[BMalion]

If hotness was a disqualifier for covert work, we wouldn't have a (two click rule) Hedy Lamarr (http://www.douglass.co.uk/webpromote/celebs/oops_h.htm) or, even, a cute, but mostly just slutty, Mata Hari. (http://www.bikiniscience.com/models/MT19_SS/MT19.html)



That's Hedley!

[Hamlet]

To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla?

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla? He's still doing research over at the Freepers.

[Hamlet]

To be honest, I was expecting Scylla to come in and explain his conclusion and how her testimony proved it. So, are you going to step up Scylla?Is this thing on? Hello?

[ElvisL1ves]

Hang on, it isn't Thanksgiving yet.

[Scylla]

Looks about as friendly and inviting as a set of spiky anal beads. Y'all are gonna have to play with yourselves on this one. Been there, done that.

[GIGObuster]

Looks about as friendly and inviting as a set of spiky anal beads. Y'all are gonna have to play with yourselves on this one. Been there, done that.
I guess a close translation of that even sadder reply is: ... I got nothing.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/162341/291
At the press conference announcing the indictment of Libby, Fitzgerald stated:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801340.html
Before I talk about those charges and what the indictment alleges, I'd like to put the investigation into a little context.

Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.

Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.

FITZGERALD: The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security.

Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.

The indictment itself states in Section 1-f:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/28/AR2005102801086.html

f. Joseph Wilson was married to Valerie Plame Wilson ("Valerie Wilson"). At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson's affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. Even Republican Tom Davis (VA) at the Congressional hearing into the matter confirmed she was covert:

"It's a terrible thing that any CIA operative would be outed.., there's no evidence here that the people that were outing this and pursuing this had knowledge of the covert status."
BTW that quote comes from a comment of the article, but it had the links that I needed, plus the cite is a good reply to the recent idiotic article by Bob Novack, Novack still shows that he keeps his head stuck where the sun don't shine.

[Scylla]

I guess a close translation of that even sadder reply is: ... I got nothing.

More like "I got a life."

You should consider getting one.

[Club 33]

More like "I got a life."


But you didn't have a life when you originally posted to this thread? Seems you had plenty of time to make allegations but none to back them up.

[Scylla]

But you didn't have a life when you originally posted to this thread? Seems you had plenty of time to make allegations but none to back them up.

No. I had a life then, too. I originally posted to make a joke. I made that joke. I got asked a question and I answered it. That question was doubtless spawned by the fact that I just recently finished posting two a ten page plus thread which exhaustively covered this very subject.

Since it was with most of the same people that are here, it seems like a colossal waste of time to do it again.

Kapisch?

[GIGObuster]

More like "I got a life."

You should consider getting one.
I just graduated, and I already had a life even now. Darn, even your disdain is certifiably pathetic.

Since it was with most of the same people that are here, it seems like a colossal waste of time to do it again.

Kapisch?

Yeah, I also concluded over there that you "got nothing" also.

[Hamlet]

I got asked a question and I answered it. That question was doubtless spawned by the fact that I just recently finished posting two a ten page plus thread which exhaustively covered this very subject.I'm the one who asked, and I don't recall any recent posts of yours about Plame and her covert status. Unless I'm getting senile, or your definition of "recently" is 6 months ago, you're assertion that the question was "doubtlessly spawned" by that, is pure, and unadulterated baloney.

[Scylla]

I'm the one who asked, and I don't recall any recent posts of yours about Plame and her covert status. Unless I'm getting senile, or your definition of "recently" is 6 months ago, you're assertion that the question was "doubtlessly spawned" by that, is pure, and unadulterated baloney.

6 months ago isn't "recently" enough? We have to do it again, biannually?

Look, I'm sorry. I don't feel like it at the moment and I really don't have the time to commit to it.

[jayjay]

6 months ago isn't "recently" enough? We have to do it again, biannually?

Look, I'm sorry. I don't feel like it at the moment and I really don't have the time to commit to it.

You actually thought that linking to a 6-month-old thread that was active before both Plame and General Hayden (the DIRECTOR of the CIA) testified and it would be given a pass? The corroboration of suspected facts about Plame's status by both Plame herself and the director of the CIA (both under oath) doesn't make 6-month-old speculation null?

[Polycarp]

You actually thought that linking to a 6-month-old thread that was active before both Plame and General Hayden (the DIRECTOR of the CIA) testified and it would be given a pass? The corroboration of suspected facts about Plame's status by both Plame herself and the director of the CIA (both under oath) doesn't make 6-month-old speculation null?

Well, you know, jayjay, no Republican would ever lie or commit any politically motivated misdeeds. Now, be a good boy and get back in your closet, and I'll tell you another story. ;)

Memo to the board's American conservatives: There may be one or two people associated with these scandals who are in fact innocent of wrongdoing -- but the more crap that's showing up, the less likely it is that there are many of them, or that their number includes any of the people in high places. And the more you go to defend them, the more foolish and less credible you look in anyone else's eyes.

[ElvisL1ves]

C'mon, Sparky, you can say it. You can make yourself, without much pain. Here you go: "I, Scylla, was wr....."

See?

[Quiddity Glomfuster]

Kapisch?

Properly: capisce.

[Hamlet]

6 months ago isn't "recently" enough? We have to do it again, biannually?Well, we did have the entire Libby trial, Plame testified, Toensing testified, and Hayden's comments. I thought, you know, maybe those things might be relevant to the issue, but, I guess not.

Look, I'm sorry. I don't feel like it at the moment and I really don't have the time to commit to it.C'est la vie.

[PatriotX]

Looks about as friendly and inviting as a set of spiky anal beads. Y'all are gonna have to play with yourselves on this one. Been there, done that.
I was all excited to see the basis for the assertion that Plames testimony showed she was not covert.

I've seen the assertion parrotted elsewhere on the net, yet there has been no one who has been willing to try to find the part of the testimony that shows such.

It seems odd that there'd be multiple people who all have the time to make such an assertion yet do not have the time to find the relevant sections of the transcript that support that assertion.

What are the odds?

If I were more cynical i surmise that there's an opinion piece that makes such an assertion and that this opinion piece was read by these divers individuals. Also it would seem that these divers individuals have NOT actually read the transcripts.

If I were more cynical that is...

Perhaps it really just is coincidental that on more than one mb there're more than one individual who have exceptionally similar time constraints as Scylla- enough time to post that Plame's testimony shows she wasn't covert yet not enough time to be able to find that elusive section of the transcript.