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View Full Version : Anyone else ever wondered, or am I just really strange?


Kricket
10-06-2000, 09:09 PM
Okay, I am not quite sure where this belongs since I don't want a debate, and I am sure that it will have oppinions, and it isn't really a general question. So it needs to be moved please feel free.

Now, on with the question..........

Okay, if Jesus was the King of Jews then how come those who follow him aren't Jewish and those who don't believe him are? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Just somethin I have thought of from time to time, and nobody really has an answer for me. Thought I would pick some of the minds of the Dopers I so cherish. I value your oppinions, thoughts and suggestions so who better to bring it to.

Olentzero
10-06-2000, 09:12 PM
Primarily it has to do with the fact that the Jews believe the Messiah hasn't appeared yet, while the Christians do. Generally people who break with established belief start off in the minority, and the majority declares anathema on them or at least says they can't be in the club anymore.

10-06-2000, 10:04 PM
"King of the Jews" was a title bestowed upon him by the Romans, partially as a way of justifying his crucifixion. See, under Caesar, it was a capital crime for anyone to declare regency. Whether or not the J-man actually did or not is subject to debate.

It was not uncommon for the Romans to post a criminal's crime above his head for the morbid to see. so if you've ever seen the initials above his crucified form, "INRI," that stands for Iesus Nazare Rex Iudei" (For all the Latin Scholars out there, I know I got the declensions wrong. I'll paint it the proper way a hundred times, all around the Great Square in letters ten feet high, I promise!) This phrase is Latin for "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews."

Kricket
10-06-2000, 10:53 PM
Okay, I understand the religious stuff mostly.

I was just thinking along the lines of:

"okay, he is the messiah, and labeled the king of Jews, so we are Jewish"

"okay, he's a nice prophet and a good kid, but not the messiah. We won't follow him so were not Jewish since he is their king"

I don't know, to me it is kind of an oxymoron. And this is not to offend anyone or sound blasphemus. Just something I have pondered.
I even asked my grandmother who was Jewish until her mother married an Irish Catholic and the family disowned them. She said that she had never thought about it, because it is just the way it was and it is not ours to question.

My husband says they are Christian because they follow Christ, and the Jewish people just stayed Jewish.

It has taken me a lot of nerve to ask this question since I know it sounds off the wall, so please don't take this wrong or, tell me what an idiot I am. Unless of course this somehow gets moved to the pit! ;)
In other words: Be gentle.

Flutterby
10-06-2000, 11:24 PM
Well personally I think it kinda makes sense.. you see he was Jewish but he looked at things differently then what was accepted so he broke away from the norm. Since he wasn't following the norm and all the people were following him they did not want to be mistaken for everyone else and thought to believe in something they did not. Thus they became Christians and did not stay Jewish.

Zenster
10-06-2000, 11:49 PM
Please, oh please, watch the "Frontline" Documentary titled, "When Jesus Became Christ". It is the only factually based account about the existence of Christ that I've ever seen. It will precisely answer your question about Christ and the Jews.

To encapsulate a small portion of the narration:

Only after Jesus was executed did the Rabbis concur that, in fact, He did qualify in so many ways as a messiah.

This program aired on PBS about three years ago. It is worth pursuing.

I am a devout agnostic. I am in no way a Christian! The program I refer to just happens to be the most precise account of this historical episode that I could hope to recommend.

Please read the book, "The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. It will give you an idea of why people so often pursue some sort of overiding, validating structure (known as Divine Authorization).

Anyone should feel free to email me about all of the above subjects. I will be devoting a thread to them soon.

Flutterby
10-06-2000, 11:56 PM
Oh Zenster you just reminded me..

There is an exhibit at the Alberta Museum called Anno Domini Jesus Through the Centuries (I don't know if it would help people elsewhere though and the Edmontonians probably already know its there..) but its about how Jesus has shaped our culture and such throughout the centuries. (It doesn't claim anything about him its just a show on how he affected us whether he is real or not.. because even if he isn't real he has shaped our culture)