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Queuing
04-19-2007, 01:24 PM
Interesting. So taking brewha's and sturmhauke's evidence it would seem to point at Storyteller0910 and StarvingButStrong.

So I will put off my looking at Fretful, for the moment, and I will do Storyteller first.

StarvingButStrong
04-19-2007, 01:29 PM
I did some more research and found that two people did not vote for Suburban Plankton, did vote for MTS and are still alive.

Those are StarvingbutStrong and Storyteller.

I will probably end up voting to lynch one of these two, but they might both be scum and it might not matter.

StarvingbutStrong's late vote change either indicates a concerned but confused citizen, or crafty mafia.

Is it possible that she really didn't look at the thread before posting the vote? Or did she take 20+ mins to compose that post and not preview?

.


Gee, great way for the day to start off: two more citizens dead, and myself at the top of at least two people's list. :(

Well, for the record (yet again) re Suburban Plankton. I was one of the first to call suspicion on him, and voted for him early in that 'day.' I left the vote there until just before I had to go to work. At that point it was obvious (heh) that there weren't going to be enough votes to lynch him, so I changed my vote to what I thought was the scummier of the two leading vote getters. I went to work, hell broke out, and I can home to find SP had been lynched.

As for my belated vote switch from MadTheSwine to Monkey Mensch, I'd been out running errands. I started reading to catch up, got to Queuing's post laying out suspicions of Monkey, and immediately unvoted/re voted. But it was too late. Somehow I'd thought the day ended on the hour, so I was in a hurry to get my vote in, and didn't take the time to read the rest of the thread for fear of running out of time. Yes, ironic that.

Anyway, that's all I can say. I spend a lot of time away from my computer for reasons of work and family/house needs, and it's screwed up my play in this game mightily.

If I get strung up for that, well, no hard feelings. In truth, other than pointing a deserved attack on on Suburban Plankton and a (maybe?) undeserved attack on Aguecheek, I haven't contributed much.

Oh, for the record, I'm nobody, just vanilla.

The upside of lynching me: well, at least a more useful citizen won't die.
The downside of lynching me: one less townie and...well, I guess that's all.

brewha
04-19-2007, 01:34 PM
Don't worry. You're not at the top of my list, you're a close second. That might all be circumstantial evidence anyway. The real truth lays in your posts. I've already gone thru Storyteller's posts and they reek of scum. I'm interested to see what Queuing comes up with.

storyteller0910
04-19-2007, 01:39 PM
So I will put off my looking at Fretful, for the moment, and I will do Storyteller first.


I'm afraid you'll need to buy me a drink first. And possibly flowers.

Sorry, I'm twelve.

Don't worry. You're not at the top of my list, you're a close second. That might all be circumstantial evidence anyway. The real truth lays in your posts. I've already gone thru Storyteller's posts and they reek of scum. I'm interested to see what Queuing comes up with.

Wow. You went through all my posts in a half hour? Well, I'd be happy to discuss anything I've said or done throughout the game. Want to share what you're thinking, rather than waiting on Queuing? That would seem a bit more above board to me.

brewha
04-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Well, for the record (yet again) re Suburban Plankton. I was one of the first to call suspicion on him, and voted for him early in that 'day.'

Yep, I missed that (at least twice it seems). I didn't bring up the Suburban Plankton lynching to prove guilt as much as to prove innocence. It is more likely that those who voted for him are innocent than those who didn't are guilty.

You've dropped a few pegs on my scum list.

StarvingButStrong
04-19-2007, 01:43 PM
I've got a question, though: how in the world do you 'test' a beat cop claim?

Since he's going to be wrong half the time anyway, how in the world can you tell a deliberate lie by the "cop" from his accurately reporting a wrong answer he really received?

brewha
04-19-2007, 01:44 PM
Wow. You went through all my posts in a half hour? Well, I'd be happy to discuss anything I've said or done throughout the game. Want to share what you're thinking, rather than waiting on Queuing? That would seem a bit more above board to me.


There were only 64 to begin with. I skipped over the ones that seemed to give little insight from their subject lines.


It's not like there is any one thing that you said that made you look scummy. It is more a compilation of what you didn't say. I'm gonna give it a closer read through before I cast my vote.

storyteller0910
04-19-2007, 01:46 PM
It's not like there is any one thing that you said that made you look scummy. It is more a compilation of what you didn't say.

:dubious:

All righty then. Sort of hard to craft a response to that, wouldn't you agree?

Queuing
04-19-2007, 01:55 PM
Well, for the record (yet again) re Suburban Plankton. I was one of the first to call suspicion on him, and voted for him early in that 'day.' I left the vote there until just before I had to go to work. At that point it was obvious (heh) that there weren't going to be enough votes to lynch him, so I changed my vote to what I thought was the scummier of the two leading vote getters. I went to work, hell broke out, and I can home to find SP had been lynched.

FTR, this is why I choose to do storyteller first (passes him a big ol' bottle of tequila, good enough?). You haven't really struck me as scum TBH, but following up on any sort of lead is necessary at this time. We are losing, quite badly, and I am not a big fan of losing.

On preview. You can't really test a beat cop claim I don't think. We don't even know if there are 2 beat cops. All the rules say is:

Cops - there are 2 kinds of cop, detective and beat cop. Detectives are always right when they investigate, beat cops are only right 50% of the time. Cops cannot talk outside of the game. There can be up to 3 cops.

So we may be out of cops, or there may still be a detective running around for all we know. We just have to trust, for now at least. Myself I don't really believe aguecheek. For no real reason except he seems to have investigated a number of people unnecessarily. Mainly roles, and last night's investigation of me seemed to only come from 1 person. I myself suggested other people, and I believe (but haven't checked) that others did as well.

brewha
04-19-2007, 02:23 PM
:dubious:

All righty then. Sort of hard to craft a response to that, wouldn't you agree?


Yeah, and apparently with good reason. I've gone through again with a more in depth look and I can't seem to find any conclusive evidence. I did find that your list of suspects in post 884 are all known to be town, but I suspected some of them at differnet points in the game.

Your vote history has not been the greatest, you even claimed responsibility for the Enfant Terrible lynching, but judging on how the town is doing, no one has a stellar voting history.


Your voting history that I've already mentioned still keeps you at the highest of my scum list until I find a more likely candidate.

ArizonaTeach
04-19-2007, 02:29 PM
I've got a question, though: how in the world do you 'test' a beat cop claim?How do you test the results of the investigation? Only one way - lynching. And, maybe I'm just talking crazy here, but I don't think that's a very good idea. How do you test the results of a beat cop role claim? Only one way - seeing what happens when they die, and that would really suck if one truly IS a cop. So my analysis? Beat Cops have the worst, absolute WORST job in the game.
What really blows is unlike some other roles, they don't get better odds as the town shrinks, right?

Menocchio
04-19-2007, 02:35 PM
I'm glad to see some more action here today. Mad got lynched wrongly because the town had become too sluggish to work with the deadline and deal with an 11th hour role-claim. We overcompensated for the franticness of earlier days and we still ended hanging someone half-coked because we couldn't be arsed to choose well before then.

I have no doubt that at least some of Mad's killers were scum, but I most of them were just town panicking and chooses someone who didn't claim to be a cop.

By the way, I'm still not convinced by Aguecheek.

storyteller0910
04-19-2007, 02:49 PM
Yeah, and apparently with good reason. I've gone through again with a more in depth look and I can't seem to find any conclusive evidence. I did find that your list of suspects in post 884 are all known to be town, but I suspected some of them at differnet points in the game.

Your vote history has not been the greatest, you even claimed responsibility for the Enfant Terrible lynching, but judging on how the town is doing, no one has a stellar voting history.

Your voting history that I've already mentioned still keeps you at the highest of my scum list until I find a more likely candidate.

You know what? Fair enough. I've been arguing for turning the spotlight toward some fresh faces; I can hardly complain when it turns to me.

For the moment, I'll address your specific point (well, points, there were 2):

1. I did not vote for Suburban Plankton. This is true; here is why. At some point during that Day, I became convinced that pimaspinner was scum. Obviously I was wrong, but I felt I had pretty good evidence - she had said some things that I thought were contradictory and misleading. Ultimately I voted for her, feeling fairly confident in my choice. Then I went away from the boards for a while (various IRL stuff). I missed pima's role claim, the resultant shift of votes to Fern Forest, and then the subsequent flip over to Suburban Plankton. By the time I got back, the brouhaha was over - with my vote still sitting on pima, where I had left it before the craziness got underway.

2. I voted for MadtheSwine yesterday. I definitely don't think the vote for Mad was our finest hour as a town, but as I said at the time, I was (and am) close to sure that Malacandra and Queuing were town, and I felt we oughtn't to lynch Aguecheek, given his role claim, until we had a bit more information on and from him. People were pushing the Mad lynch, it was late in the day and I was tired of being Ralph Nader with my lonely Pygm vote, so I took a shot at someone on whom I had no read in order to preserve people on whom I did.

Didn't want to - wanted to vote for Pygmy Rugger. In fact, I still do. Actually, while I'm here, and in the hope that someone else will be interested this time:

vote Pygmy Rugger

But did. Anyhoo, that's my reasoning. Do with it as you will.

Malacandra
04-19-2007, 02:51 PM
How do you test the results of the investigation? Only one way - lynching. And, maybe I'm just talking crazy here, but I don't think that's a very good idea. How do you test the results of a beat cop role claim? Only one way - seeing what happens when they die, and that would really suck if one truly IS a cop. So my analysis? Beat Cops have the worst, absolute WORST job in the game.
What really blows is unlike some other roles, they don't get better odds as the town shrinks, right?

They get better odds on unique roles. For instance, there are now about 15 people for our putative beat cop to pick from (there are 18 of us - the Cop will not investigate himself or the Masons (do we still have two left?) ). So he has a 1/15 chance of happening on, say, the SK, and then a 1/2 chance of identifying him. But the only other time he will turn up a SK result is if he gets a "wrong" result and then picks SK out of about 8 roles (Mafia, Citizen, Detective, Beat Cop, Doctor, Vig, SK, GA). He can't get "Miller" right or wrong as I understand it as they always read "Mafia" and he can't get "Godfather" as he always reads "Citizen", but he can get roles that have been eliminated. So he has a 1/2 x 1/8 chance of getting a "wrong" SK read. There is a 1 in 15 chance that this is "accidentally right" - he picked the SK, flipped the coin wrong, but it came up SK anyway.

So his chance of getting an SK read on someone who is the SK is (1/2 x 1/15) + (1/2 x 1/8 x 1/15) and his chance of getting an SK read on someone who isn't is 1/2 x 1/8 x 14/15). Cancelling common turns means that the odds are 14:9 against an SK read being on someone who actually is the SK. Those are much better odds than we had at the start. (It corresponds quite closely to "number of players" against "number of roles").

The trouble is, of course, that most times the Cop investigates he won't get an SK result at all. The above number crunching only addresses the possibility that he does. I hope no Cop would actually announce a GA result even if he got one, but the odds of one being true or false if he does would be the same. Always assuming the role is in the game in the first place.

No one BC result can be viewed as decisive, but reads of Citizen and Mafia aren't bad. I'd suggest we not make them the sole criterion for a lynching but maybe put them on the to-do list when the supposed Cop's inevitable demise gives us further grounds for considering his claims true or false.

Malacandra
04-19-2007, 02:56 PM
Oops, I left "Mason" off the above role list. Adjust the figures accordingly - I think that makes it 14:10 against. Presumably an actual report of Mason at this stage would be incorrect as we believe all the Masons are accounted for, but we'd be no wiser as to what the subject actually was. And when I speak of cancelling "common turns" I mean "common terms", of course.

brewha
04-19-2007, 03:02 PM
I came into today sure MonkeyMensch was scum. Than after research I was reasonabley sure either Storyteller or Starving was scum. I now I'm sure of nothing.

AHHHH!

If you don't hear from me again, it's because my head exploded. :confused:

StarvingButStrong
04-19-2007, 03:20 PM
No one BC result can be viewed as decisive, but reads of Citizen and Mafia aren't bad. I'd suggest we not make them the sole criterion for a lynching but maybe put them on the to-do list when the supposed Cop's inevitable demise gives us further grounds for considering his claims true or false.

Snipping math -- I'm sure you're right, but...

What I'm really asking about is, well, I voted for Aguecheek (giving my reasons) and several others also voted for him, for their own reasons, mostly. Then he says he's a beat cop.

If he is, good for us. And bad for him, probably, since the Mafia will off him sooner or later. (Your 'inevitable demise' line from above.)

But what if he really is mafia? As someone pointed out above, it's damn easy to fake being a BC if you are mafia, given that you know who all the mafia are. All you have to do is claim you investigated whoever and say whatever you want was the answer you got. Investigate a scum and say he came back town? You provide some cover for that scum. And when the truth comes out... Whoops, got bitten by that 50% wrong thing. "Investigate" a townie and say he came back as the Guardian Angel? Why not? Hell, "investigate" a townie and say he came back as town -- why not?

How many days could a 'fake' Mafioso do this without us being able to say for sure that he's not a Beat Cop? Longer than this game will last, probably.

It just seems like a perfect cover for a Mafia.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 03:26 PM
I agree that it is perfect cover for Mafia. I agree with everything you said. One thing that you may be missing is if he lives 2 more nights then we almost have to kill him ourselves. Particularly if he just keeps coming back town. Particularly if he only sort of investigates whom was suggested.

Basically its good cover, but only for so long. Who knows how long this game will go on for though. I do think the scum need to go after the SK as well though.


Brewha so why don't you think Monkey is scum anymore? Have any opinions on Malacandra?

Aguecheek
04-19-2007, 03:30 PM
[L]ast night's investigation of me seemed to only come from 1 person. I myself suggested other people, and I believe (but haven't checked) that others did as well.Wait...what?

I would also suggest having Aguecheek and Pima both investigate Queing tonight and see what comes up,making sure Ague post his results first since we aren't sure of his claim,then see what pimas results are.I still think Aguecheek's claim is BS, but since we're not going to lynch him tonight, I like the idea of him reporting before pima.I like the idea of having aguecheek reporting back first, assuming they wake up alive. I don't really get why you want both cops to investigate me, but whatever.The first quote from MadTheSwine was made 8 posts before the lynching, Pygmy Rugger's was 3 posts after that (with the intervening posts by MTS only. Yours was 5 after Pygmy Rugger's. The next post after your last was the lynching. No other posts in between suggested any other investigations. Rysto suggested voting on an investigatee, but yours and Pygmy Rugger's were the only posts that seemed in agreement as to whom should be investigated. I'm sorry if I misread the request, but come on.

Now to respond to earlier questions that I couldn't get to yesterday.

Why didn't I investigate MonkeyMensch and why did I investigate BlasterMaster and pimaspinner? We've all agreed (and I quite concur), that Cop results suck. I got FOS'd by JSexton after my vote for sturmhauke and made it onto Queuing and BlasterMaster's scum lists as a result. I figured investigating to determine a role was the suck. After BM claimed, I figured it might work for confirming, however. Granted, there were tests set up to confirm those claims, but honestly, I didn't give it much thought. Figured the more confirmation we could get, the better and that's it. Sorry I can't give you better justification than that.

What were my breadcrumbs? Lessee...I tried to get sturmhauke based on my one result. That was a good idea :rolleyes:. Nothing to breadcrumb from my results on BM and pima. I tried to get Queuing based on my SK result...and almost got lynched again.

Why'd I claim so early? I'd got three votes, and knowing you guys, there was a very good chance I'd pick up a couple more. One more would've tied with...Queuing? It was 11:30 pm my time on Tuesday night. The "Day" ended on Wednesday, sometime in the morning, I can't remember when. If I didn't say anything and I had more than Queuing, I hung. If I was tied, 50/50 chance I hung. Tuesday was my last chance to post since I was working all day yesterday (as noted). It was the only chance I had to make any claim, and it looked like I was headed for the gallows.

brewha
04-19-2007, 03:47 PM
Brewha so why don't you think Monkey is scum anymore? Have any opinions on Malacandra?


Monkey was one of the first that swayed the vote from Fern Forest to Suburban Plankton. If he was scum, why would he do that? It would have been so much easier to just keep his mouth shut. As it turned out, Fern Forest lived (at least thru the lynching) and Suburban Plankton got lynched.

I don't have a read on Malacandra. I don't neccesarily think that you and he are on opposite sides. Since I somewhat trust you (I don't fully trust anyone that hasn't been completely confirmed) that leaves Malacandra as a well intentioned but loud town. Or Mafia. Neither of which I am certain.

He did not vote for Suburban Plankton which does not eliminate him from mafia, but it doesn't condemn him as mafia either.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 04:05 PM
So these are just preliminary results but look at these posts of Storyteller's:

post 854 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418290&postcount=854)

post 880 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418489&postcount=880)

post 1731 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8432088&postcount=1731)

post 1787 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434473&postcount=1787)

post 1864 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436922&postcount=1864)

post 2842 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476807&postcount=2842)

Do you guys get scum from these? I sure as hell don't. In fact I think some of these posts are just excellent, and I wish we had listened to him earlier. I get a very firm town reading from this. By looking at his posts he has sky-rocketed to the top of my trust list.

Honestly, Brewha where did you get your FOS from? What "didn't he say"?

In light of this I am going to vote to

lynch pygmy rugger

My scum list:

Pygmy Rugger
Monkey Mensch
Malacandara
Brewha

I have had the bottom 3 of my list for a while now. I have stated why I think Malacandra is scum. I will do the analysis of Monkey Mensch next.

Santo Rugger
04-19-2007, 04:24 PM
<snip>
Do you guys get scum from these? I sure as hell don't. In fact I think some of these posts are just excellent, and I wish we had listened to him earlier. I get a very firm town reading from this. By looking at his posts he has sky-rocketed to the top of my trust list.

Honestly, Brewha where did you get your FOS from? What "didn't he say"?

In light of this I am going to vote to

lynch pygmy rugger

My scum list:

Pygmy Rugger
Monkey Mensch
Malacandara
Brewha

I have had the bottom 3 of my list for a while now. I have stated why I think Malacandra is scum. I will do the analysis of Monkey Mensch next.

Answer me this. Why do you do such a thourough, thoughtful, and time consuming analysis of several other posters, and yet vote to lynch me "because story said so? Especially considering that I wasn't on the bottom three of your list. And why are you doing (hehe, doing) MM next, if you're already voting for me?

cowgirl
04-19-2007, 04:33 PM
Wow. so much going on. I didn't realize that day broke already! My job has just gotten exceedingly crazy so this is the first time I've been able to check in and I'm far from caught up.

I was so certain about MadTheSwine and I feel really bad about it. I was also suspicious of glee but she turned out town too so my instincts badly need a re-tune. I'm leaning towards Pygmy Rugger but his defense of MadTheTownie makes me lean a bit less. But storyteller has been taking words out of my mouth all game so his/her endorsement makes me lean a bit more. Hm. All this leaning is making me dizzy.

I can't do a read through now so I'll put down some quick thoughts, pending a full analysis:

- I'd still like to know why everyone wanted to lynch Aguecheek, I still don't get it
- Let us not have any more bandwagons, it makes it too easy for the mafia to hide out and help us lynch one townie or another
- I think the lurkers need some serious investigating, because we seem to quite often go after the active posters who all turn out to be townie

Queuing
04-19-2007, 04:40 PM
Nothing posts: 176, 219, 266, 454, 504, 834, 1312, 1645, 1647, 1650, 1680, 1919, 2241, 2322, 2511, 2598, 2673, 2780, 2896, 2949
Vote counts: 1190, 1192

post 252 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405448&postcount=252) -tries some analysis of whom was killed first night, says only OAOW had said anything

post 316 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406144&postcount=316) -quotes me, talking about why chrisk should have potentially been believed on the first day, and agrees with me, FOS Enfant do to EF saying people who post a lot/analaysis seemed to have big roles last game

post 349 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406814&postcount=349) -asks for analysis and lots of it, to force scum to talk and maybe lie

post 420 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408266&postcount=420) -quotes EF, who had answered his FOS, says EF didn’t address actual content, asks for a reason not to lynch EF

post 438 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408441&postcount=438) [QUOTE] -vote count
-trust distrust list
Trust: sturmhauke:, rysto, chrisj
Distrust: aguecheek, FF, Menecchio, queuing
-votes for EF due to his concerns not being addressed

post 470 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408792&postcount=470) -defends auto, basically saying I don’t care how he posts, only what he posts, asks for clarification of auto’s actions

post 504 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8409194&postcount=504) -12 hour countdown vote

post 590 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414146&postcount=590) very much against lynching of sturmhauke
-says will be away for a while (explains his lack of posting for 300 or so)

post 854 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418290&postcount=854) very large analysis post, mentions numerous players, you might want to read it yourselves
-his conclusion: That at least one of the people who has called for the lynching of sturm, Auto, or chrisk is probably Mafia, and that cross-referencing that list with the list of people who did vote for Enfant Terrible might produce useful information.

post 880 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418489&postcount=880) -follows up on his conclusion, comes up with 2 names: Menecchio and FCOD
-votes FCOD ( a known scum)
-again, I think this is worth reading

post 891 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418589&postcount=891) -responds to post by lakai, asking why he thinks sturm. Auto and chrisk were all town (which they all turned out to be). Says he didn’t like the 1st day attempt to get sturm, thinks auto is either town or worse player ever, and no real reason for chrisk
-wants FCOD dead, not ready to vote for Pleonast

post 892 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418600&postcount=892) -request for Pygmy to explain himself

post 939 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419904&postcount=939) -asks Gadarene to explain why he doesn’t like post 854, slight FOS at gadarene

post 940 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419910&postcount=940) corrects a vote count by FF, reiterates vote for FCOD

post 949 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420038&postcount=949) - answers Gadarene accusations, very well I might add, slightly stronger FOS but not official

post 1093 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422532&postcount=1093) -unvotes FCOD as BM had claimed

post 1096 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422567&postcount=1096) -quotes me, explains that he doesn’t think the mafia will be acting in cahoots that much

post 1215 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8423911&postcount=1215) -agrees with gadarene, as well as my idea to kill one from each side of the day 2 debacle, no vote yet though

post 1265 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424292&postcount=1265) -says he is convinced of my towniness
-votes gadarene
-suggest the conditional vig kill by BM

post 1334 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424845&postcount=1334) -quotes BM, when BM FOS hocow as SK, and wants to know why

post 1353 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424986&postcount=1353) -in the midst of Zuma’s stubbornness about BM getting a choice on vig kill, he becomes very suspicious of him, and votes to vig kill

post 1553 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8427194&postcount=1553) votes for plan 1 of the conditional plans, which was to not vig kill me, but vig kill JSexton ( I believe)

post 1731 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8432088&postcount=1731)
-another very long analysis post, I urge you to read it
-he says he re-read the thread, and comes up with the following, names 10 people town. Of these 10, 6 are confirmed town by death, 1 by DET (we think), only himself, rysto and myself are not confirmed (but highly believed to be town)
-says he will come back with more of a follow-up on the ones who aren’t town in his mind
-votes FCOD again

post 1787 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434473&postcount=1787) -another long bit of analysis, read it
-answers accusations from pimaspinner very well, again confirms desire to vote for FCOD

post 1792 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434743&postcount=1792) -FOS pimaspinner, reasons given are good, but no vote yet, stil on FCOD

post 1845 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436405&postcount=1845) -quotes fretful, questions his reasoning mostly about BM being mafia, and him wanting to kill JSexton because of it

post 1852 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436484&postcount=1852) -JSexton defends fretful as forcing BM to kill one of his own, doesn’t buy it but now understands it

post 1864 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436922&postcount=1864) -another very lengthy analysis, read it
-scum from here are: FCOD (yes he was), pimaspinner (nope), pygmy (unknown)

post 1918 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439254&postcount=1918) -unvotes FCOD, votes for pima, but happy to vote for either
-quotes rysto, who wonders why he hadn’t voted for pima yet

post 1962 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8441996&postcount=1962) -again answers rysto
-vig kill for FCOD

post 2434 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454554&postcount=2434) -congrats to pima are given, cautions us to slow down, and says if auto and fern are scum then he is very wrong. (we know they were town now)

post 2540 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457794&postcount=2540) -votes for auto now, due to him still not making a defense

post 2551 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457994&postcount=2551) -quotes and disagrees with pygmy about announcing beat cop investigation

post 2556 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458126&postcount=2556) -rule clarification as well as agreement with me about allowing pima to investigate who they want

post 2722 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466415&postcount=2722) -another long post answering all questions asked of him, a suggestion of thinking outside the box basically, and asking to slowdown

post 2767 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474565&postcount=2767) -in the middle of the math fight (which I still doesn’t really matter, but I digress  ), agreess with me in it not mattering that much, and asks for more participation in the last day

post 2842 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476807&postcount=2842) -another big analysis post, mostly about the math fight, FOS’s the following:
Aguecheek, Fretful Porpentine, ArizonaTeach, and pima as well as glee for bringing it up again, due to them all voting for Malacandara or I. Finds Pygmy rugger the most suspicious, and votes for pygmy rugger

post 2889 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478848&postcount=2889) -basically says we may as well believe the cop claims. Also questions why hocow tried again to stir up the math fight
-leaves vote for pygmy

post 2900 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479045&postcount=2900) -unvotes pygmy, votes for MTS, also posts a vote count, says he doesn’t want to kill either me or malacandra

Queuing
04-19-2007, 04:43 PM
Answer me this. Why do you do such a thourough, thoughtful, and time consuming analysis of several other posters, and yet vote to lynch me "because story said so? Especially considering that I wasn't on the bottom three of your list. And why are you doing (hehe, doing) MM next, if you're already voting for me?

Voting for you because Storyteller did. I have just finished reading all of his posts and he seemed right fairly often. Particularly on that FCOD call that he did quite early in the game, and then wouldn't let go of it. He is doing the same with you, so I am going to listen this time.

I am doing MM (and here is your bottle of tequila, don't worry I will be gentle) next because I was planning on doing him if I lived in the morning, and I already have his posts all ready. That is the only reason. Don't worry, I will do you after him, ok?

Queuing
04-19-2007, 04:51 PM
User Name Posts

Queuing 239 --- investigated by claimed beat cop, came up SK/Citizen
Rysto 112
Malacandra 98
Kat 95
Pygmy Rugger 86
Lakai 78 ---- investigated by known beat cop, came up citizen
brewha 76
MonkeyMensch 73
storyteller0910 67
StarvingButStrong 63
ArizonaTeach 63
Menocchio 62 ---- Probable DET Crumb - Citizen or GF
Pleonast 61---- Mason
Fretful Porpentine 56
Aguecheek 54 ---- Cop Claim
hocow 40
sturmhauke 35 --- Mason
cowgirl 33

I wouldn't be upset if someone else did a few of these people.

brewha
04-19-2007, 04:51 PM
Queuing, I just conceeded that my suspiscions of Story could very well be wrong. If you bear with me for a moment I would like to make my case against Lakai. It may seem that I'm throwing around accusations, but, like Story said, it is good to get other people in the spotlight to see how they react.

Santo Rugger
04-19-2007, 04:55 PM
Voting for you because Storyteller did. I have just finished reading all of his posts and he seemed right fairly often. Particularly on that FCOD call that he did quite early in the game, and then wouldn't let go of it. He is doing the same with you, so I am going to listen this time.

I am doing MM (and here is your bottle of tequila, don't worry I will be gentle) next because I was planning on doing him if I lived in the morning, and I already have his posts all ready. That is the only reason. Don't worry, I will do you after him, ok?

Mmmm, tequila. You've said you're going to be gentle, and if you promise to use lube I promise not to tense up.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 04:59 PM
Queuing, I just conceeded that my suspiscions of Story could very well be wrong. If you bear with me for a moment I would like to make my case against Lakai. It may seem that I'm throwing around accusations, but, like Story said, it is good to get other people in the spotlight to see how they react.

I know. I was just wondering thats all. I agree its an excellent idea to throw the spotlight on a everyone. See if they run like cockroaches or stand tall. Personally I would love if your analysis of Lakai contained post numbers/links/page numbers. Thanks :).

On preview, well that bottle was suppose to be MM's because he was next, but don't worry, I have plenty. Fine, I will use some lube....even though not taking it like a man is a scum tell!

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:03 PM
I took a look at the list of people that did not vote for Suburban Plankton as a place to start. Lakai seems to have stayed completely under the radar for me. I went back and reread his posts knowing more about who is and is not scum.

381 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=381)
FOS MTS, Efant Terrible, and Chrisk - all confirmed town.

636 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=636)
Votes Pleonast - mason

828 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=828)
Pushes for the rest of the town to vote Pleonast


1064 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=1064)
Long explanation. Ends with the push for the deaths of Pleonast and Blaster Master.


1068 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=1068)
Votes Blaster Master

1794 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=1794)
Votes Pimaspinner - our recently deceased cop

2012 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=2012)
Goes along with the lynching of Flying Cow of Doom, but only with the cavaet that hocow or Pimaspinner get vig killed depending on the outcome

2066 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=2066)
Votes to lynch Fern Forest and vig kill Flying Cow of Doom. Sure FCOD dies with this vote, but a townie goes with him and we waste our vig kill.

2194 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=2194)
Claims it is too late to kill Suburban Plankton and pushes for votes to lynch Fern Forest.


Then I saw post 2629 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=2629) which rebutts accusations made by Blaster Master in post 2497 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418544&postcount=2497) - poorly I might add.

If you don't trust my FOS of Lakai, take a look at what our dearly departed Vigiliante thinks of him.

I, for one, Vote Lakai

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:06 PM
Crap, My coding is screwed up. I'll try another post - but trust me those posts do say I what I say they say.

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:14 PM
Then I saw post [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8460121&postcount=2629]2629[/url] which rebutts accusations made by Blaster Master in post [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456721&postcount=2497]2497[/url] - poorly I might add.

If you don't trust my FOS of Lakai, take a look at what our dearly departed Vigiliante thinks of him.



These are the two posts that matter the most. Blaster Master already called attention to most of the posts that I attempted to link to in his post 2497 (which should work now).

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:17 PM
Dammit Dammit Dammit

Lets try again. Stupid non editing

::shakes fist at NAF::

Just look at this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456721&postcount=2497)one again.

Feel free to look at the others I listed if you want more than my brief summary.

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:21 PM
I went through all of Blaster Master's accuasations and he has all the posts I listed execept for 2012 and 2066. He also has a few I didn't list.

How did Lakai live this long? String him up I tells ya!

I think Blaster Master wasn't entirely trusted at the time he made his case against Lakai, but we now know whose side he was on.

Lakai
04-19-2007, 05:27 PM
Voting for you because Storyteller did. I have just finished reading all of his posts and he seemed right fairly often. Particularly on that FCOD call that he did quite early in the game, and then wouldn't let go of it. He is doing the same with you, so I am going to listen this time.

While I wait for brewha to get his coding together I will say I strongly agree with this.

Vote Pygmy Rugger for now.

Lakai
04-19-2007, 05:32 PM
I went through all of Blaster Master's accuasations and he has all the posts I listed execept for 2012 and 2066. He also has a few I didn't list.

How did Lakai live this long? String him up I tells ya!

I think Blaster Master wasn't entirely trusted at the time he made his case against Lakai, but we now know whose side he was on.

I already answered Blaster Master's post here. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8460121&postcount=2629) If there is anything in there that you don't like please say so and I will explain.

Fretful Porpentine
04-19-2007, 05:35 PM
Could someone please refresh my memory about why Rysto is so generally trusted? I'm not saying he shouldn't be, I'm just trying to remember the reasoning behind it.

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:37 PM
Okay... let's review then, shall we?

Like nesta and kivvik, you failed to make a vote on day one.

You voted to lynch Pleonast (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414759&postcount=636) with shaky reasoning. You point out the bandwagon from Autolycus to Enfant Terrible, and then say Pleonast is more suspicious for supporting and improved version of chrisk's idea? Why didn't you just vote for chrisk?

A defense of Autolycus (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414795&postcount=638) (our current GF suspect); granted, it was against my faulty reasoning, and it was appropriately addressed by zuma later, but you made no attempt to address the reasoning.

Then you "reluctantly" change your vote (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415625&postcount=702) to chrisk, still pushing for Pleonast, when the whole reason you didn't like Pleonast was because he supported chrisk. ???

Then you change your vote back (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8417057#post8417057) to Pleonast and FOS me.

Another vague defense of Autolycus (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8417794&postcount=828) and another FOS at me, Pleonast, Storyteller, and sturmhauke.

Here's an example of a seemingly helpful but doesn't really add anything post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418112&postcount=845).

Then you defend FCOD (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418517&postcount=883), and point the FOS at Pleonast and me again.

And again... (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422025&postcount=1064)

Then you switch your vote AGAIN (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422151&postcount=1068), this time to try and start the clock on me.

Then you question why I role-claimed (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422833&postcount=1116). ???

Then you try (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422982&postcount=1133) and again (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8423054&postcount=1143) to keep the FOS on me even after the plan was established to test my claim.

Then you support VIGing Zuma (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424713&postcount=1315).

Then a vague defense of Aguecheek (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434178&postcount=1779), another individual high on many people's scum lists right now.

Then, a vote for pimaspinner (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435064&postcount=1794).

Then you FOS pimaspinner AGAIN (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435209&postcount=1803), and essentailly support random FOSing.

This is your only vote for mafia (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443291&postcount=2007), and only AFTER he was outed by pimaspinner.

And after push the FCOD thing REALLY hard for several posts, you claim we don't have enough time to get the Suburban Plankton train going (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446170&postcount=2194) and should just vote for Fern Forest.


So, what do I see in ALL of your posts? Several are either completely contentless or of the "seemingly helpful, but not really type" like vote counting. ALL of your votes, except for the one for FCOD AFTER he was outted, were for what are now 100% confirmed non-mafia (100% townie, if you don't include Fern Forest, who is either townie or SK, which is still in the mafia's favor). You defended Autolycus (suspected GF), FCOD (confirmed mafia), Suburban Plankton (confirmed mafia), and Aguecheek (higher on most people's scum list than you are). You chastized Suburban Plankton for his idea in a manor that seems more consistent with "you fool, they're FOSing you, STOP IT!" than "I really think we should vote for you". Why didn't you vote Suburban Plankton after that, oh so convincing, performance? THEN, to top it all, you get hyper defensive when people FOS you, without getting even a single vote? If you really aren't mafia, then you shouldn't have much of a problem at all with people suggesting that you be investigated... as the investigation should, more likely than not, exonerate you of your mafia charges.

If I didn't think that lynching Autolycus today was most in the town's favor, I'd vote for you. Maybe we can just get to that tomorrow?

Lakai, don't try and brush this off because of my coding issues. Blaster Master posted almost exactly the same thing as I attempted to - except he did it over 500 posts ago. I don't know why we didn't listen then. I case people don't want to deal with links, just read the above.

brewha
04-19-2007, 05:39 PM
I already answered Blaster Master's post here. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8460121&postcount=2629) If there is anything in there that you don't like please say so and I will explain.

Sure, that worked fine at the time. But, we didn't know if we could trust Blaster Master or not. We also didn't know that every person you voted to lynch was town and that every person you defended was mafia.

It seems a bit clearer now.

Lakai
04-19-2007, 05:53 PM
Sure, that worked fine at the time. But, we didn't know if we could trust Blaster Master or not. We also didn't know that every person you voted to lynch was town and that every person you defended was mafia.

It seems a bit clearer now.

Blaster Master lays suspicion on me for defending Autolycus. Auto turned out to be town. The only other uncertain person we did not know about was Fern Forest. Was that it? The fact that Fern Forest turned out town, was that the clincher for you?

It seems a little suspicious of you that you ignore the fact that I was right about defending Autolycus and still say that every person I defended was mafia.

Malacandra
04-19-2007, 06:19 PM
Snipping math -- I'm sure you're right, but...

What I'm really asking about is, well, I voted for Aguecheek (giving my reasons) and several others also voted for him, for their own reasons, mostly. Then he says he's a beat cop.

If he is, good for us. And bad for him, probably, since the Mafia will off him sooner or later. (Your 'inevitable demise' line from above.)

But what if he really is mafia? As someone pointed out above, it's damn easy to fake being a BC if you are mafia, given that you know who all the mafia are. All you have to do is claim you investigated whoever and say whatever you want was the answer you got. Investigate a scum and say he came back town? You provide some cover for that scum. And when the truth comes out... Whoops, got bitten by that 50% wrong thing. "Investigate" a townie and say he came back as the Guardian Angel? Why not? Hell, "investigate" a townie and say he came back as town -- why not?

How many days could a 'fake' Mafioso do this without us being able to say for sure that he's not a Beat Cop? Longer than this game will last, probably.

It just seems like a perfect cover for a Mafia.

Yes, I think sooner or later a supposed Beat Cop has to die and the town have to make what they can of the results, which will be presumed true or false based on the supposed Cop's actual role. It's hard to fit into a role-playing paradigm but just from the point of view of the game I guess it becomes necessary. (Excuse me. A friend dropped by this evening and after a few beers plus some Calvados, metaxa and brandy I am quite mellow, and not 100% coherent.)

Sorry if all this math is not altogether helpful but each to his own. Others have tried analyzing posts and, as previously mentioned, this is still resulting in a lot of town dying and not much scum. I know that I don't need to finish this game alive to end up on the winning team and the best I can do for the town is to crunch numbers and consider logical possibilities.

brewha
04-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Blaster Master lays suspicion on me for defending Autolycus. Auto turned out to be town. The only other uncertain person we did not know about was Fern Forest. Was that it? The fact that Fern Forest turned out town, was that the clincher for you?

It seems a little suspicious of you that you ignore the fact that I was right about defending Autolycus and still say that every person I defended was mafia.

Bah! Did you even read what you wrote? Basically your defense to BlasterMaster for all your actions was something like - I voted for them because that's what I thought I should do.

You never explained why you thought someone needed lynching just that you thought that they did. Yeah, there was that thing about a network of people, but I think you were just trying to flush out some masons. Seems that you ID'd a couple too, doesn't it?

The real clincher was not Fern Forest. It was the compilation of all the things that Blaster Master pointed out.

So what if you defended Auto? You were the only one who did. He was acting so screwy that one person's defense would not save him from the gallows.

Besides, why are you getting so defensive when ONE person - just me - acuses you? You have one vote against you and five days to worry about. Methinks you want to convince everyone else that there is no need to go digging through your past posts.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 08:28 PM
IIRC Rysto is generally trusted because he posted a spreadsheet a while back, as well as coming up with some very townie sounding advice way back on like day 2. I think he has given some "at the time sounded very townie" advice more then once. Due to this he has not pinged anyone's scumdar. Regardless I think we can ignore him today as he will not be here at all for this day cycle to defend himself.

I like what you have done brewha. I like the investigations of other people. It is necessary to do this if we will have any chance of winning at all. This day needs to last a long time, maybe the limit, and we need to have discussions of as many people as possible.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 09:04 PM
So you don't have to go searching: (Plus I found out I already did Monkey Mensch and without the tequila!)

Kivvik (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453793&postcount=2370)

Suburban Plankton (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454697&postcount=2442)

FCOD (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456310&postcount=2490)

Malacandra (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475805&postcount=2821) and Malacandra Analysis (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475999&postcount=2827)

hocow (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477533&postcount=2850)

aguecheek (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478718&postcount=2884)

Monkey Mensch (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479147&postcount=2909)

Storyteller (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484994&postcount=3024)

StarvingButStrong
04-19-2007, 09:33 PM
So you don't have to go searching: (Plus I found out I already did Monkey Mensch and without the tequila!)


Q, you've been doing astounding work for the town. Let me take this post to apologize for having suspected and voted for you back on Day 2.

Also, I feel guilty for not helping out. You have done Aguecheek, hocow, Malacandra, MonkeyMensch, and Storyteller. Brewha/BlasterMaster have done Lakai. Sturmhauke and Pleonast are masons. We seem agreed that Mennochio was the 'breadcrumb.' If Q isn't a townie, well, I just don't believe she could be mafia after so much work -- and it pretty much has to be straightforward reporting/analysis or surely a 'victim' would have raised a ruckus by now.

That leaves yet to be dissected: ArizonaTeach, Brewha, Cowgirl/Smitty, FretfulPorpentine, Kat, PygmyRugger, Rysto, and StarvingButStrong.


So I'll volunteer to do Starving.
















;) Yeah, I guess not. Queuing, would you like to assign someone to me? (I say that figuring you're probably halfway through someone else by now, and why duplicate effort? Also, if anyone else in engaged on an 'autopsy', please speak up for the same reason.

Fretful Porpentine
04-19-2007, 09:38 PM
I'm willing to do one, too (slight preference for Smitty / cowgirl because I'm curious about him / her, but I'll take what I'm assigned). However, I probably won't be able to post anything until midday tomorrow at the earliest.

storyteller0910
04-19-2007, 09:40 PM
I went through all of Blaster Master's accuasations and he has all the posts I listed execept for 2012 and 2066. He also has a few I didn't list.

How did Lakai live this long? String him up I tells ya!

I think Blaster Master wasn't entirely trusted at the time he made his case against Lakai, but we now know whose side he was on.

brewha- unless I'm getting confused, pima checked out Lakai the night before last and reported him as town. I realize that's not exactly definitive (insert discussion of exactly how definitive it is or is not here), but it's good enough to push him down the FoS list a bit, I think.

Question for all - I know that there's been some vague suspicion directed against MonkeyMensch, but I can't seem to figure exactly why. I've browsed his posts but am not seeing anything particularly egregious. Can someone summarize the case of People v. Monkey?

storyteller0910
04-19-2007, 09:42 PM
Question for all - I know that there's been some vague suspicion directed against MonkeyMensch, but I can't seem to figure exactly why. I've browsed his posts but am not seeing anything particularly egregious. Can someone summarize the case of People v. Monkey?

Oops... just saw that Queuing did a Monkey breakdown already. Time for some light reading.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 09:50 PM
Monkey was one of the first that swayed the vote from Fern Forest to Suburban Plankton. If he was scum, why would he do that? It would have been so much easier to just keep his mouth shut. As it turned out, Fern Forest lived (at least thru the lynching) and Suburban Plankton got lynched.


Just want to say this impression of MM is not even close to correct.

pima claims 1970 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442785&postcount=1970) then FCOD claims at 2017 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443672&postcount=2017) . The first vote for SP is BM at 2045 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443889&postcount=2045) . MM then votes for FCOD, 2.5 hours after the claim, here at post 2071 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444080&postcount=2071) . At 2082 glee FOS SP but votes for FF (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444214&postcount=2082) . There is then a bunch of unvoting for various people, voting JSexton and Fern Forest but mostly JSexton which forces him to claim at post 2150 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445571&postcount=2150) . I am the first to unovte him at post 2158, 20 mins after his claim (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445678&postcount=2158) followed by sturmhauke (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445767&postcount=2166) and BM who votes again for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445790&postcount=2167) with my vote for SP at 2173 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445868&postcount=2173) . glee joins again, but had always wanted SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445905&postcount=2175) . This goes on for a while, with ArizonaTeach first voting and then unvoting SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445996&postcount=2184) but his reasoning is to save the doc. Lakai suggests not voting for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446170&postcount=2194) . Here is when Monkey Mensch finally votes for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446613&postcount=2226)

So I am just saying you are wrong on this too. Sorry, because I like that you went back and are going after Lakai, but I needed to point this out as soon as I realized it.

This makes me think Monkey Mensch is part of the Mafia even more then I did before.

Fretful, Lakai said s/he was going to be "looking at cowgirl's posts" already, so I would suggest someone else. You want to do, say ArizonaTeach?

StarvingButStrong, you want to do brewha?

My next target is pygmyrugger.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 09:52 PM
Bah, empty post, how did that happen? Thank god I always copy and paste a big post before I hit submit :)

Monkey was one of the first that swayed the vote from Fern Forest to Suburban Plankton. If he was scum, why would he do that? It would have been so much easier to just keep his mouth shut. As it turned out, Fern Forest lived (at least thru the lynching) and Suburban Plankton got lynched.


Just want to say this impression of MM is not even close to correct.

pima claims 1970 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442785&postcount=1970) then FCOD claims at 2017 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443672&postcount=2017) . The first vote for SP is BM at 2045 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443889&postcount=2045) . MM then votes for FCOD, 2.5 hours after the claim, here at post 2071 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444080&postcount=2071) . At 2082 glee FOS SP but votes for FF (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444214&postcount=2082) . There is then a bunch of unvoting for various people, voting JSexton and Fern Forest but mostly JSexton which forces him to claim at post 2150 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445571&postcount=2150) . I am the first to unovte him at post 2158, 20 mins after his claim (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445678&postcount=2158) followed by sturmhauke (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445767&postcount=2166) and BM who votes again for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445790&postcount=2167) with my vote for SP at 2173 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445868&postcount=2173) . glee joins again, but had always wanted SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445905&postcount=2175) . This goes on for a while, with ArizonaTeach first voting and then unvoting SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445996&postcount=2184) but his reasoning is to save the doc. Lakai suggests not voting for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446170&postcount=2194) . Here is when Monkey Mensch finally votes for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446613&postcount=2226)

So I am just saying you are wrong on this too. Sorry, because I like that you went back and are going after Lakai, but I needed to point this out as soon as I realized it.

This makes me think Monkey Mensch is part of the Mafia even more.

Starvingbutstrong, would you like to do ArizonaTeach?

Fretful, Lakai has said that s/he will be "taking a look at cowgirl" so I don't know, want to do brewha?

My next target is PygmyRugger.

Kat
04-19-2007, 09:53 PM
I'm willing to do one, too (slight preference for Smitty / cowgirl because I'm curious about him / her, but I'll take what I'm assigned). However, I probably won't be able to post anything until midday tomorrow at the earliest.

Ditto here. I'd be happy to do one (it beats doing five!), but I would not be able to do it until Saturday morning, because I don't have access to the board at work, and I am babysitting my niece tomorrow night. (Although I may be lucky enough to be able to do something after she goes to bed.)

Kat
04-19-2007, 09:56 PM
Is this what you meant to say, Queuing?

Monkey was one of the first that swayed the vote from Fern Forest to Suburban Plankton. If he was scum, why would he do that? It would have been so much easier to just keep his mouth shut. As it turned out, Fern Forest lived (at least thru the lynching) and Suburban Plankton got lynched.


Just want to say this impression of MM is not even close to correct.

pima claims 1970 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442785&postcount=1970) then FCOD claims at 2017 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443672&postcount=2017) . The first vote for SP is BM at 2045 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443889&postcount=2045) . MM then votes for FCOD, 2.5 hours after the claim, here at post 2071 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444080&postcount=2071) . At 2082 glee FOS SP but votes for FF (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444214&postcount=2082) . There is then a bunch of unvoting for various people, voting JSexton and Fern Forest but mostly JSexton which forces him to claim at post 2150 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445571&postcount=2150) . I am the first to unovte him at post 2158, 20 mins after his claim (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445678&postcount=2158) followed by sturmhauke (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445767&postcount=2166) and BM who votes again for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445790&postcount=2167) with my vote for SP at 2173 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445868&postcount=2173) . glee joins again, but had always wanted SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445905&postcount=2175) . This goes on for a while, with ArizonaTeach first voting and then unvoting SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445996&postcount=2184) but his reasoning is to save the doc. Lakai suggests not voting for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446170&postcount=2194) . Here is when Monkey Mensch finally votes for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446613&postcount=2226)

So I am just saying you are wrong on this too. Sorry, because I like that you went back and are going after Lakai, but I needed to point this out as soon as I realized it.

This makes me think Monkey Mensch is part of the Mafia even more then I did before.

Fretful, Lakai said s/he was going to be "looking at cowgirl's posts" already, so I would suggest someone else. You want to do, say ArizonaTeach?

StarvingButStrong, you want to do brewha?

My next target is pygmyrugger.

Kat
04-19-2007, 09:58 PM
You didn't close the quote tag on brewha's quote, and it was discovered elsewhere on the board that doing that results in a blank post. But you can see it all when you reply with quote. So I just quoted your post and closed the quote tag.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=brewha]Monkey was one of the first that swayed the vote from Fern Forest to Suburban Plankton. If he was scum, why would he do that? It would have been so much easier to just keep his mouth shut. As it turned out, Fern Forest lived (at least thru the lynching) and Suburban Plankton got lynched./QUOTE]


Just want to say this impression of MM is not even close to correct.

pima claims 1970 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442785&postcount=1970) then FCOD claims at 2017 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443672&postcount=2017) . The first vote for SP is BM at 2045 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443889&postcount=2045) . MM then votes for FCOD, 2.5 hours after the claim, here at post 2071 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444080&postcount=2071) . At 2082 glee FOS SP but votes for FF (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444214&postcount=2082) . There is then a bunch of unvoting for various people, voting JSexton and Fern Forest but mostly JSexton which forces him to claim at post 2150 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445571&postcount=2150) . I am the first to unovte him at post 2158, 20 mins after his claim (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445678&postcount=2158) followed by sturmhauke (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445767&postcount=2166) and BM who votes again for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445790&postcount=2167) with my vote for SP at 2173 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445868&postcount=2173) . glee joins again, but had always wanted SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445905&postcount=2175) . This goes on for a while, with ArizonaTeach first voting and then unvoting SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445996&postcount=2184) but his reasoning is to save the doc. Lakai suggests not voting for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446170&postcount=2194) . Here is when Monkey Mensch finally votes for SP (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446613&postcount=2226)

So I am just saying you are wrong on this too. Sorry, because I like that you went back and are going after Lakai, but I needed to point this out as soon as I realized it.

This makes me think Monkey Mensch is part of the Mafia eve more.

Ok, so you want some assignments do you?

StarvingButStrong, want to do fretful?

Fretful, want to do starvingbutstrong?

Kat, hmm, no partner for you! Well, how about brewha?

lakai said that s/he was "going to be taking a look at cowgirl" so lets see what that comes up with.

I do think it is necessary that you post actual links to the individual posts. To do this click on the post number and open in a new window or tab, or whatever, then using the insert hyperlink in advanced post copy the URL.

Fretful Porpentine
04-19-2007, 09:59 PM
Fretful, Lakai said s/he was going to be "looking at cowgirl's posts" already, so I would suggest someone else. You want to do, say ArizonaTeach?
Sure, sounds good.

Fretful Porpentine
04-19-2007, 10:00 PM
Or I could do StarvingButStrong, as you seem to have suggested in your third post. Either way's fine.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 10:01 PM
Ah thank you Kat! That was driving me insane!!!!

That works, Fretful you can do[B] ArizonaTeach

StarvingButStrong can do brewha

Kat can do Fretful.

That sound good?

Fretful Porpentine
04-19-2007, 10:04 PM
That sound good?
Yeah, I think that's better than having me and StarvingButStrong investigate each other (because if, hypothetically, we were both scum, that would not be good). Better to have people investigating and investigated by two different parties.

Kat
04-19-2007, 10:06 PM
Sounds good to me.

cowgirl
04-19-2007, 10:10 PM
Sign me up. I'll do whoever you want, or I'll pick someone if you prefer.

Kat
04-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Hey, you all don't mind if I use the same formatting I used in the Werewolf thread, do you? Except I'll add post numbers and links.

StarvingButStrong
04-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Ah thank you Kat! That was driving me insane!!!!

That works, Fretful you can do[B] ArizonaTeach

StarvingButStrong can do brewha

Kat can do Fretful.

That sound good?


Fine by me. Brewha, prepare to be probed!

ArizonaTeach
04-19-2007, 10:22 PM
That works, Fretful you can do ArizonaTeach
Married man, now. Naughty Naughty. My postings, however, are an open book.

Yeah, I think that's better than having me and StarvingButStrong investigate each other (because if, hypothetically, we were both scum, that would not be good). Better to have people investigating and investigated by two different parties.I'm not sure why, but something about the logic of this post is nagging me.

Anyway, feel free to give me an assignment. With the weekend coming, I'll actually have time.

Finally, the argument against Monkey Mensch, coupled with brewha's "misremembering" I find veerrrrry interesting.

Queuing
04-19-2007, 10:28 PM
Kat, use whatever you feel like. It doesn't matter to me how you present your information. Just so long as we can verify it with links. Verifiability is all that matters.


cowgirl want to do kat?

From what I can tell that leaves StarvingButStrong, Rysto, Queuing (I pity the person who has to do me :) ) and Menecchio. That is the unconfirmed people at least.

On preview, ArizonaTeach how about StarvingButStrong?

Which leaves just 3.

Lakai
04-20-2007, 12:33 AM
Bah! Did you even read what you wrote?
Basically your defense to BlasterMaster for all your actions was something like - I voted for them because that's what I thought I should do.

I read everything you wrote. You made your case, and then told everyone to look at Blaster Master's arguments against me. I thought they were not much different from yours and said that I answered them in a previous post. I then asked if you had any problem with my that post and you said:

Sure, that worked fine at the time. But, we didn't know if we could trust Blaster Master or not. We also didn't know that every person you voted to lynch was town and that every person you defended was mafia.

It seems a bit clearer now.


Like I said, the only things that we know about Blaster Master's FOS of me now that we didn't before are that Auto and Fern Forest are town.


You never explained why you thought someone needed lynching just that you thought that they did. Yeah, there was that thing about a network of people, but I think you were just trying to flush out some masons. Seems that you ID'd a couple too, doesn't it?

The real clincher was not Fern Forest. It was the compilation of all the things that Blaster Master pointed out.

How was I supposed to know that this was your real problem. If you had mentioned it before like I asked you to I would have answered it.

Even if I was flushing out masons, a network theory is an explanation for why I wanted to lynch someone.


So what if you defended Auto? You were the only one who did. He was acting so screwy that one person's defense would not save him from the gallows.

It matters because you said I only defended mafia.

Besides, why are you getting so defensive when ONE person - just me - acuses you? You have one vote against you and five days to worry about. Methinks you want to convince everyone else that there is no need to go digging through your past posts.

I wanted to see if your suspicion of me was simply ignorant or made with malice.

The way you read suspicion into my posts makes me conclude it was malice.

Unvote Pygmy Rugger. Vote brewha.

Aguecheek
04-20-2007, 01:10 AM
Q, I'll take one if you want it. Prolly have it done tomorrow evening or so.

Lakai
04-20-2007, 02:11 AM
Now I understand how people have so many links that all link to the same post. :smack:

I finished cowgirl's post history and will post it tomorrow after I fix the links.

brewha
04-20-2007, 08:55 AM
RE: the MonkeyMensch issue. I'm not misrembering anything.

here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446530&postcount=2222) the vote is 9 Fern Forest 8 Suburban Plankton.

Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446540&postcount=2224) MonkeyMensch unvotes our Doc.

And Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446613&postcount=2226) MonkeyMensch Votes for Suburban Plankton. This ties the vote at 9-9.

After that post, Arizona follows and Unvotes FF and votes SP making it 10-8.

I don't see how that can be viewed any other way. I'm not saying that this exonerates Monkey, it just makes me less suspicious.

As far as Lakai being invetigated and coming up town, that means very little to me. Cops are going to get some wrong.

Lakai I did not vote for you in malice. I followed your posts and didn't like what they said. You seem to be the most likely candidate for mafia to me at this time.

cowgirl
04-20-2007, 09:01 AM
cowgirl want to do kat?Sure thing, giant beer.

I mean, no problem. I'll do Kat (as long as she promises not to make me sneeze ... I'm quite allergic). I can't finish it until tomorrow, tho, for some reason the people who sign my paycheques want me to work today.

Queuing
04-20-2007, 09:26 AM
Q, I'll take one if you want it. Prolly have it done tomorrow evening or so.

Sure how about Rysto?

I would say the deadline for getting this done should be sunday evening. The day ends Tuesday at 8:30am pacific, which would be 12:30pm Atlantic, noon if your a newfie, 11:30am eastern, 10:30am Central, 9:30am mountain. If you don't live in North America, I have no idea.

Brewha I suppose I take issue with the idea of "one of the first to sway the vote". He was not one of the first to sway the vote, he just happened to be the guy who put SP into a tie. I do see what you are saying however.

I also agree that coming up town by a cop does not mean much, however it means enough that I don't think our focus should be on the people who have been investigated and came up golden.

I really hope that this new plan of investigating everyone's posts actually does something, and not just wastes our time. We really need to get a scum this time, if for no other reason then morale. Plus I hate to fucking lose.

NAF1138
04-20-2007, 11:17 AM
2- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller, Queuing)
1- brewha - (lakai)
1- Lakai - (brewha)

brewha
04-20-2007, 11:49 AM
Brewha I suppose I take issue with the idea of "one of the first to sway the vote". He was not one of the first to sway the vote, he just happened to be the guy who put SP into a tie. I do see what you are saying however.




My point is that if MonkeyMensch were mafia, I doubt he would have voted for Plankton. The votes and suspicion for both were pretty even. He would have known that Plankton was mafia and that Fern Forest was not mafia. There would have been no suspicion cast on him had he voted Fern Forest instead.

It just seems like an unMafia thing to do.

brewha
04-20-2007, 11:51 AM
OK, he didn't do any vote swaying. I see how you take issue with that wording. I meant that his vote was the first that took Fern Forest out of the lead.

MonkeyMensch
04-20-2007, 12:19 PM
Hi all.

I'm assuming that the Mafia got Pima and the SK glee. But it could easily be the other way 'round. If a cop gets lucky and investigates the SK there's a much better chance of an accurate ID than with mere scum. Just thought I'd mention it.

I'm voting aguecheek for the moment because that gallows steps claim still rings hinky and then you chose to investigate queuing! I may be sniffing glue here, and I'm not, but queuing is doing yeoman's work with those summations (and thanks to the others who have volunteered to do more of those) and is not much a suspect. Why not look at somebody a little more suspicious or at least low posting?

I'm fine with Rysto's absence with a pleasant easy pace for the day. If we have a nice reasoned discourse he shouldn't miss but one daytime's activities.

See ya this evening.

brewha
04-20-2007, 01:22 PM
I feel like Frank the Tank yelling out WE"RE GOING STREAKING!

Then taking off to the quads naked - by myself .

Doesn't anyone else see what I'm saying about Lakia? Does anyone else buy his defense?

Can anyone give me better reasoning to vote for someone else?

Where is everyone? We still got 18 players, but only a half a dozen seem to be vocal.

I'm taking off for the weekend in about 3 hrs. I probably won't check the Dope again until Sun night.

Lakai
04-20-2007, 01:32 PM
Old cowgirl.

25 149 319 - No Value.

339 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406628&postcount=339) - Was concerned that we were FOSing people who post lots of analysis and asked what is the point of doing so if you are going to get FOSed.

483 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408916&postcount=483) - Big analysis post. Conveys her trust of Auto, Sturm, chrisk, Pleonast and Gadarene. She expressed curiosity about MadTheSwine's hard-on for Winston. She also mistrusted CaerieD, Queuing and Enfant Terrible. She votes for Enfant.

676 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415336&postcount=676) - Her good bye post. :(

Smitty.

6, 88 – No value.

244 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405346&postcount=244) – Votes glee because of random.org.

290 – Explains to glee that his vote was only random.

355 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406889&postcount=355) – Suspicious of Enfant Terrible.

417 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408255&postcount=417) – Explains his suspicions of Enfant, Auto and glee.

430, 431, 443, 449, 459 – Setting up a spreadsheet.

583 – Updates his spreadsheet. Says “I think we need to take a good, hard look at who made bandwagon votes on Enfant Terrible - that is, votes with no reasoning behind them. These are far more likely to be scum pushing for a lynch.”

994 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420639&postcount=994) – Votes for Gadarene. He say’s Gadarene should not ask to be killed if he is town and also blames Gadarene for role claiming so early.

New cowgirl.

2298 - Comes into the game at night.

2301 and 2327 – Says Moo.

2439 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454643&postcount=2439) - Big analysis post. Expresses her suspicion of me, MadtheSwine and Pygmy Rugger.

2440 - Makes minor correction of her post in 2439.

2461 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8455312&postcount=2461) - Wonders why FCOD would say he blocked Malacandra twice.

2474 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8455945&postcount=2474) - reposts the reasoning for suspicions about Pygmy Rugger from post 2439 and adds a summary.

2516 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457452&postcount=2516) - Wonders if Auto is doing anything but wasting time.

2533 - Voted for Auto because she does not see a point in waiting.

2610 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8459216&postcount=2610) – Reasons for suspecting and voting for Auto.

2682 – Night post

2713 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466192&postcount=2713) - Explains her reasons for being suspicious of MadTheSwine.

2796 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475294&postcount=2796) – Votes for MadTheSwine and asks about his aggression towards the Detective so early in the game.

2801 – Vote count. Says “I expect the votes today will come flying fast and furious, so can we post ongoing post counts? I wouldn't be surprised to have to switch my vote once a bandwagon gets more persuasive (and I don't think I'm the only one) so I'd like to keep an eye on it. Twould be a shame for someone to be lynched with only three or four votes ... which is the way things seem to be going so far.”

2808 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475433&postcount=2808) – Defends her FOS of Pygmy Rugger.

2812 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475488&postcount=2812) – Defends her use of old posts as evidence.

2814 - Wants to hear MadtheSwine defend himself.

2828 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476020&postcount=2828) – Says that MadtheSwine’s answer was good and unvotes him.

2841 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476788&postcount=2841) – Defends herself against Pygmy Rugger.

2860 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477888&postcount=2860) - Defends herself against Pygmy Rugger again.

2879 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478548&postcount=2879) – Votes for Malacadra and provides her reasoning.

2893 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478960&postcount=2893) - Wonders why people are suspicious of Augecheek.

2898 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479019&postcount=2898) – Switches vote back to MadTheSwine.

2912 - Asked if we thought about why the mafia killed the people they killed.

2921 - Makes small point about glee. Says “Come to think of it, didn't glee also point out that he was trusted by Masons - as if to imply that he was among them - and then Pleonast made a point of distancing him/herself from it? (Please correct me if I'm wrong, my memory has been faulty before.) If true, glee looks mighty suspicious to me now too.” She then says she does not have time to look that up.

2947 – Night post.

3023 ( http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484962&postcount=3023) – What’s important here is that she says:
“ - I'd still like to know why everyone wanted to lynch Aguecheek, I still don't get it
- Let us not have any more bandwagons, it makes it too easy for the mafia to hide out and help us lynch one townie or another
- I think the lurkers need some serious investigating, because we seem to quite often go after the active posters who all turn out to be townie”

3060 – Says that she is willing to do whoever Queuing wants.

3069 – Says she’ll do Kat. :)

Queuing
04-20-2007, 01:48 PM
You want my opinion?

I don't love his defense no, but neither have I taken a lot of time to look over the case presented. Plus he did have a cop investigate him and he came up citizen. That is not definite we all know that, however since there are probably 5 scum still left and 1 SK, I don't consider him a priority. That is why I won't vote for him now.

ArizonaTeach
04-20-2007, 02:07 PM
hmm...isn't one of the only guarantees when it comes to a cop investigations is Vig=mafia and GF=town? Hell, one more reason beat cops are useless (no offense to the beat cops...well, not much offense...)

Queuing
04-20-2007, 03:47 PM
So Lakai what do you think of cowgirl?

Personally I think it is a good idea to not just give us posts, but also what you think after reading them. I can see a downside to this, that being doing so might influence the thoughts of others to much. However the upside, that being forcing you to give your opinion on who you analyzed is more beneficial in the long run.

Ideally what I would like to see is we get all these reports done by sunday afternoon/evening, we all take monday to read them all, and then everyone gives their opinion on everyone else. Except for the fact that this will take a fair amount of time for each of us, I see no downside to this. If you are town, why wouldn't you want to do this? If you are scum, well I see it being easier to catch you in a lie. I think, if this is done, we will improve our odds greatly of at least not having the scum beat us. I see no real way of getting the SK beyond luck.

What say all of you?

brewha
04-20-2007, 04:05 PM
That sounds like a great plan to me. I won't be around tomorrow or most of Sun anyway, but I think by Mon we should be able to start making rational decisions on who can be trusted.

I've done background checks on MonkeyMensch, Storyteller and Lakai. I'm leaning toward MonkeyMensch and Storyteller as town and I believe Lakai is scum.

Queuing
04-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Not to pick on you brewha, but just saying I think X is town and Y is scum without saying why doesn't help much either. I know you have already said why, but I think in our posts of why we think who is what we need to also give reasons. Links are not necessary, but reasons are. This is meant as a general comment to all of us. The reasoning doesn't have to be very in depth or brilliant or anything, just more then a blanket statement.

For example I think Storyteller is town because he has given some very in depth analysis on a number of occasions about a number of different people. As well he was onto FCOD early in the game, and never dropped that suspicion, that as we know turned out correctly.

I think Malacandra is scum because he has given little to no posts of substance, beyond math posts which only appeared after they may have been of use by showing us that the odds that the beat cop actually got a reading of SK correct are very slim.

StarvingButStrong
04-20-2007, 05:43 PM
Hi all.

I'm assuming that the Mafia got Pima and the SK glee. But it could easily be the other way 'round. If a cop gets lucky and investigates the SK there's a much better chance of an accurate ID than with mere scum. Just thought I'd mention it.


Huh? Seriously, I don't understand you. Why would the SK go after Pima? Why *wouldn't* the Mafia go after our pretty-much-confirmed Beat Cop?

And, though I didn't follow all the math, I very sure that the agreed bottom line was that ids of any 'special' role were much less certain that either 'town' or 'mafia.' Something on the order of 7 times less likely, IIRC.


I'm voting aguecheek for the moment because that gallows steps claim still rings hinky and then you chose to investigate queuing! I may be sniffing glue here, and I'm not, but queuing is doing yeoman's work with those summations (and thanks to the others who have volunteered to do more of those) and is not much a suspect. Why not look at somebody a little more suspicious or at least low posting?


Such as yourself? Or me? Or roughly half of the current survivors? Most of the prolific are GONE already. We're left with medium to low posters in the main.

I find this a very weird, and rather suspicious post, even though I agree with your continuing suspicions of aguecheek.

StarvingButStrong
04-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Where is everyone? We still got 18 players, but only a half a dozen seem to be vocal.

I'm taking off for the weekend in about 3 hrs. I probably won't check the Dope again until Sun night.

Well, here in the Northeast it's the first nice day after six days of rain, so I guess a lot of people might be spending time outdoors.

Plus, a lot of people might be waiting until all the 'dissections' get done and posted and read.

BTW, mine is taking longer than I thought. Every single time I click on that insert a link button IE 'helpfully' pops us a window to warn me that this site is now running a script, and click here if I want to let it. So I do. Then it offers the choice of 'temporarily allow' and 'learn more.' So I pick temporary. But does that get the link window? Nope. I have to click on the insert link button AGAIN. So it takes me four clicks before I even GET to the link window. <sigh>

And the, of course, the 'temporary' is over before I have the next link ready and I get to do it all over again. <double sigh> I've got to get a better browser.

Still, I promise to have it done by Saturday evening.

Queuing
04-20-2007, 07:02 PM
StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima.


To help with your annoying why-do-I-use-IE problem add the SDMB to your trusted sites. To do this go to tools--internet options--security---trusted sites and add the SDMB (its easiest if you do this while on the SDMB). You may have to unclick use https prefix for it to work. Then reload IE. It will prompt you about something when you go back to SDMB (don't remember exactly what it says), just say yes/ok or whatever, and you should be ok.

StarvingButStrong
04-20-2007, 07:43 PM
StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima.


Yeah? ::rereads:: Okay, I guess I didn't read the first sentence right. But what about

If a cop gets lucky and investigates the SK there's a much better chance of an accurate ID than with mere scum. Just thought I'd mention it.

Isn't that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where's Malacandra? Yoo hoo!

Anyway, I'll tone down my suspiciometer reading on MM. For now.



And a thousand thankyou's for the hint about IE. That security 'feature' was driving me nuts.

Fretful Porpentine
04-20-2007, 07:43 PM
OK, I finished my investigation of ArizonaTeach.

General chitchat: 259, 488, 521, 1629, 1797, 2329, 2638, 2660, 2678

Minor game-related talk (e.g., signing up to play, minor corrections and commentary, etc.):

35, 447, 855, 1120, 2468, 2574, 2892, 2953

Posts consisting entirely of smilies: 1535

Substantive posts (with links to all posts that have commentary beyond a simple vote / unvote or an easily summarized line or two)

379 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8407615#post8407615). Says that casting the third vote is suspicious and that he distrusts Enfant Terrible, but not voting yet.

423 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8408325#post8408325). Says we shouldn't count it against people if they fail to respond quickly because the thread is moving so fast, votes Enfant Terrible. Suspects Autolycus of being intentionally unhelpful.

468 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8408759#post8408759). Wonders why Winston Smith trusts Autolycus, argues that Autolycus's behavior is non-cooperative, even if it doesn't make him mafia.

473 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8408801#post8408801). Expresses suspicion of Blaster Master's statement that he's identified pro-townie roles, thinks he's too obvious in trying to seem pro-town.

586 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8414000#post8414000). Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master, implying that he was CaerieD's crumb; wonders why the Mafia wanted to kill cowgirl, says he wants to go back and look at Queuing's posts before agreeing with him since a lot of people seem to distrust him.

[Query: did we, at that time, have any reason to think cowgirl was killed by Mafia and not Vig? If not, is this a slip by a Mafia member who knows who killed her, or simply careless thinking by a townie?]

633 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8414730#post8414730). Defends the fact that he voted third on Enfant Terrible bandwagon, saying we should be suspicious of people who gave no reasons and he gave his. Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master and distrusts chrisk for trying to get Autolycus bandwagon rolling. Says vote will depend on who he thinks CaerieD investigated and who voted for Enfant Terrible without giving a reason.

651 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8415091#post8415091). Votes for chrisk because he thinks chrisk's votes come out of nowhere. (Later, at 820, complains that his analysis of chrisk vanished during preview.)

882 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8418514#post8418514) Unvotes chrisk because he doesn't like being in a voting block with Pygmy and Winston.

1001 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8420721#post8420721). Decides chrisk was just in over his head, votes Blaster Master, reiterates suspicion of Pygmy Rugger and an unnamed person to whom the post is addressed (since he doesn't quote, I'm not sure whom he's replying to here). Says he's leaning toward believing in Gadarene.

1099 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8422599#post8422599). Decides to believe BlasterMaster's vig claim, votes Gadarene "because of the shout-out in this post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421128&postcount=1020), of which the only purpose I can fathom is to make people suspicious of an alliance between me and Gadarene in case he turns out to be scum."

1347 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8424951#post8424951). Votes for a Vig-kill on zuma, expresses trust in Pleonast and Blaster Master and distrust of Winston Smith and Gadarene. Reiterates suspicion of Winston and zuma at 1448.

1524 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8426358#post8426358). Conjectures that Gadarene tried to start a bandwagon against zuma, who has now claimed to be a Mason, and make it look like ArizonaTeach started it.

1566 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8427308#post8427308). Votes Plan 2 for who BM should kill that night, because he doesn't want to give BM a choice of targets. (N.B. He seems to be confused here, because actually it's Plan 1 that would give BM no choice.)

1738 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8432378#post8432378). Wants to know why he's on BM's distrust list. Responds to BM's post at 1751 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8432777#post8432777) and says a mason needs to counterclaim fast if Pleonast and zuma are lying.

1761, with minor correction at 1762 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8433324#post8433324). Rebuts accusations that he's lurking too much; says that as a townie he has no inside info, and the constant "white noise" posts are just confusing the issue; more inclined to think people who post heavily are scum. Defends this position against Jsexton at 1796 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8435085#post8435085) and again at 1826 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8435996#post8435996).

1921 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8439334#post8439334). Asks pimaspinner why she voted for Rysto. Votes FCOD at 2010, after pimaspinner's role claim; then, at 2099 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8444594#post8444594), votes to lynch JSexton[/url] and vig-kill FCOD. FoSes [b]Monkeymensch in same post. After JSexton's role claim, votes for Suburban Plankton instead (2182). Then, at 2184, switches lynch vote to Fern Forest -- and back to SP at 2227.

2466 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8455532#post8455532). Says he'll vote for Autolycus, but wants Fern Forest to chime in first. Votes Auto at 2514.

2548 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8457955#post8457955). Says that pimaspinner should announce her target before an investigation, and Pleonast should out other masons only if the target is a mason. Reiterates this at 2550 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8457976#post8457976) and suggests Pygmy Rugger as next investigation target.

2570 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8458456#post8458456). After last Mason revealed, wonders if there could be fewer than nine Mafia.

2614 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8459465#post8459465). Asks Auto why he mistrusts pima, repeats question at 2623, argues against Auto's reasons at 2625 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8459991#post8459991).

After lynching, asks (2675) whether there's any way to blame what happened to Auto on bad math; at 2710 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8466146#post8466146) asks what the point of the beat cop is and says Mafia has to target SK now. Will later post more about Beat Cop's worthlessness at 3011 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8484371#post8484371) and 3078.

2757 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8473447#post8473447). Defends self against Kat's accusations about his voting record, saying anyone would switch votes if people they thought were scum were bandwagoning the vote. More responses to Kat at 2819 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8475697#post8475697), along with a vote for Queuing. Kat unvotes, but AZTeach then has to defend self against StarvingButStrong at [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8477680#post8477680]2854[/url].

2989 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8483669#post8483669). Posts a recap of the last day's events. Offers to do an investigation at 3063 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8486149#post8486149).

As far as I can tell, he seems to change his votes a lot; he also seems to have been wrong a lot -- but neither of these things is inherently suspicious, given the town's track record. The one thing that did catch my eye was the early reference to cowgirl as a Mafia target -- but I don't know whether it means anything or not.

Queuing
04-20-2007, 08:07 PM
Yeah? ::rereads:: Okay, I guess I didn't read the first sentence right. But what about



Isn't that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where's Malacandra? Yoo hoo!

Yes, from what I understand that is true.

Anyway, I'll tone down my suspiciometer reading on MM. For now.

Well I don't want to seem to be defending MM, because he is #1 of my suspect list.


And a thousand thankyou's for the hint about IE. That security 'feature' was driving me nuts.


Happy to be of help.

ArizonaTeach
04-20-2007, 09:53 PM
OK, I finished my investigation of ArizonaTeach....and don't I sound wishy-washy because of it (although I can't deny your fairness!) Allow me to address and clarify:

586 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8414000#post8414000). Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master, implying that he was CaerieD's crumb; wonders why the Mafia wanted to kill cowgirl, says he wants to go back and look at Queuing's posts before agreeing with him since a lot of people seem to distrust him.

[Query: did we, at that time, have any reason to think cowgirl was killed by Mafia and not Vig? If not, is this a slip by a Mafia member who knows who killed her, or simply careless thinking by a townie?]Neither. Allow me to repost the relevant section:

Well, BlasterMaster was on my list since his "I have ideas about who is what" post, and I wish I had listened to CaerieD more then. (Pounds my heart twice, kisses two fingers and raises them towards the sky.) If she was killed by the mafia I suspect it's for that exact reason. I can't imagine why the mafia would want to kill cowgirl, though, but I haven't gone back to look at her posts. (Umm...some equally ridiculous show of support for another fallen friend) I was wondering out loud which one the mafia killed (notice the "if"). Was it CaerieD because of her possible BlasterMaster breadcrumb, or was it cowgirl, which I said aloud I can't imagine why, given there hadn't seem to have been much focus on her.

651 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8415091#post8415091). Votes for chrisk because he thinks chrisk's votes come out of nowhere. (Later, at 820, complains that his analysis of chrisk vanished during preview.)No, but I had to go back and look at what the hell you were talking about to see what that was about. Look at the post directly above mine. I had a big analysis of what reasons chrisk could have for leaving the game and when I previewed, there was NAF basically blowing what I had speculated out of the water. So I erased it, grumbled a bit, and moved on.

As far as I can tell, he seems to change his votes a lot;True.
he also seems to have been wrong a lotGod, true.

-- but neither of these things is inherently suspicious, given the town's track record. The one thing that did catch my eye was the early reference to cowgirl as a Mafia target -- but I don't know whether it means anything or not.Hope I cleared that up.

I have started my epic StarvingButStrong work. Bear with me.

StarvingButStrong
04-20-2007, 10:06 PM
I have started my epic StarvingButStrong work. Bear with me.

Waiting with bated breath. :cool:


I've finished with brewha's, except it's in four separate files that I need to merge and do a bit of cleanup, and no doubt fix some links.

BTW, I'm thinking Brewha is female (and so used she and her) but now I don't even know why I thought that. Brewha? Anyone else know for sure?

(ArizonaTeach, I'm female.)

Fretful Porpentine
04-20-2007, 10:06 PM
Ah, thanks for the clarifications. Clearly this game is shooting my reading comprehension to hell.

Fretful Porpentine
04-20-2007, 10:09 PM
Yikes, and apparently it's also shooting my coding abilities to hell. I don't know why I didn't catch some of those mistakes on preview.

StarvingButStrong
04-20-2007, 11:17 PM
Before start/procedural/rule queries: 19 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8397605&postcount=19) 82 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8400202&postcount=82) 93 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8400362&postcount=93) 112 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8400960&postcount=112)
2539 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457783&postcount=2539) 2779 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474747&postcount=2779) 2784 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474906&postcount=2783) 2788 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474906&postcount=2783)


Night time joking around/drinking:
196 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?
p=8404080&postcount=196) 199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8404258&postcount=199)
1617 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8428170&postcount=1617) 1625 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8428319&postcount=1625) 2256 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8447351&postcount=2256) 2324 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8450385&postcount=2324)
2325 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8450405&postcount=2325)
2950 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479909&postcount=2950) 2956 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8480212&postcount=2956) 2975 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8481341&postcount=2975)


Serious Posts
==========

275 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405703&postcount=275) - FOS at MonkeyMensch for what she sees as a deliberate 'I'm just an innocent newbie don't pay attention to me' post.

466 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408755&postcount=466) - Suspicious of Blaster Master (suggests his posting style would fit with GF); Winston Smith (for being mistrustful of Blaster Master); MonkeyMensch (for poor response to her previous FOS); Autolycus (for not being helpful to town.) Says 'needs more info' before she'll vote.

719 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415892&postcount=719) - Defends herself from two votes. Says FOS MonkeyMensch was because he posted first after the deaths were announced.

856 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418295&postcount=856) - Votes for Blaster Master because he'd been a prominent poster and yet he hadn't been killed by the Mafia.

1019 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421107&postcount=1019) - Unvotes Blaster Master saying she can't decide if he's helpful townie or clever scum, and doesn't want to be part of lynching him.

1097 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421107&postcount=1019) Supports Rysto's plan to let Blaster Master live and have us vote for who he should kill each night; defends herself from JSexton's suspicion of her for being too defensive in post 719; Votes for Queuing.

1101 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422609&postcount=1101) - Proposes that "Miller should block SK" as part of testing BlasterMaster's claim of being Vig. Note: this wouldn't work because Miller's block people and not roles, as explained in succeeding posts.

1262 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424280&postcount=1262) - says her belief in Queuing's scumminess shaken by Queuing's attitude, wonders if he's the right person to hang, and says hopes useful info on alliances will be gained. Also says feels Blaster Master's posts are consistent with his claim of being Vig.

1274 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424351&postcount=1274) - Says we shouldn't let Queuing martyr himself, doesn't want to be a part of this lynching, unvotes Q.

1308 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424620&postcount=1308) - wonders if Blaster Master is the GF, and Queuing a mafia sacrificing himself to help save the GF. (This is in response to one of those Kill X and if X is mafia then kill y deals.) Says she doesn't understand why Queuing is 'so eager' to die.

1325 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424804&postcount=1325) - says since it appears Queuing's death is inevitable agrees to Queuing's proposal of Lynch Queuing, if scum vig Gadarene else vig Zuma.

1330 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424822&postcount=1330) - Says Blaster Master should be allowed to live if Queuing is town, but if Queuing is scum, he's taking a dive to save Blaster Master.

1332 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424829&postcount=1332) - Part of argument when Zuma didn't seem to grasp that Blaster Master would know the outcome of the lynch before he had to submit his choice of victim that night.

1341 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424921&postcount=1341) - continuation of above argument. She now suggests Zuma is either mafia or serial killer.

1343 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424938&postcount=1343) - continuation. Doesn't think Queuing & Zuma are on the same side, but maybe Queuing and BlasterMaster are.

1351 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424982&postcount=1351) - continuation. Wants Blaster Master to explicitly state he understand who he is to kill based on how Queuing's lynch turns out, to avoid Blaster Master being able to claim misunderstanding later.

1378 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425170&postcount=1378) - continuation Disbelieving of Zuma's claim of mason; wants to go ahead with conditional with Zuma as one of the Vig's target unless Pleonast confirms Zuma as mason.

1381 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425176&postcount=1381) - one line: votes for Gadarene (apparently after reading post where Pleonast confirms Zuma as mason, though that post predated 1378)

1491 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425822&postcount=1491) - expresses frustration with the results of Zuma's being a mason; leaves her vote on Gadarene saying she hoped he was scum, and even if not, at least we'd get some info from his death.

1684 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8430971&postcount=1684) - defends her voting pattern against Queuing's suspicions

1820 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435686&postcount=1820) - attacks FernForest for posting little more than odds/math, for not giving reasons for her votes, and for voting for her (brewha). Votes FernForest.

2102 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435686&postcount=1820) - calls FernForest's response to her previous post 'just words' and keep her vote for him; votes to Vig FlyingCowOfDoom.

2103 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444618&postcount=2103) - Calls a post by FlyingCowOfDoom scummy.

2145 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8428319&postcount=2145) - musing on what if FCOD and BlasterMaster are both scum. (This is when we were coming up with the test of FCOD's claim of being a miller.)

2202 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446255&postcount=2202) - After JSexton's claim of being the doctor. Musing on how he now has to protect himself all the time, makes him useless to the town; Keeps her vote of FernForest, but agrees Suburban Plankton a good lynch candidate, too.

2354 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453368&postcount=2354) - Happy that two mafia were killed overnight.

2355 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453376&postcount=2355) - FOS at JSexton because the mafia went after a Mason (Zuma) instead of the doctor.

2426 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454410&postcount=2426) - Agrees Autolycus as GF makes sense; votes to lynch Autolycus and Vig FernForest; sees no reason to delay lynch; says other masons should remain hidden.

2445 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454746&postcount=2445) - explains to Queuing that BlasterMaster was just ribbing her because she'd made the mistake earlier of thinking we could just block a role and not a particular player.

2446 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454776&postcount=2446) - says if people want more time, fine, and unvotes Autolycus, but 'loudly FOS' at him.

2453 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454864&postcount=2453) - Mocks Autolycus' "I'm not that smart" defense re being the GF.

2521 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457558&postcount=2521) - agrees with BlasterMaster that Autolycus is just jerking the town around; revotes Autolycus to put pressure on him.

2324 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?
p=8450385&postcount=2324) ]2608[/URL] - Mocks Autolycus' claim of being too busy to defend himself for the past 19 hours by showing he'd made 40 posts in other threads during that interval.

2608 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8459187&postcount=2608) - mocks Autolycus' claim of being too busy to defend himself over a 19 hours stretch, pointing out that he'd made 40 posts in other threads during 10 hours of that interval. In 2609, corrects herself that it was 6.5 hours, not ten.

2696 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8465884&postcount=2696) - says 'we're screwed' after night with three more dead citizens.

2717 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8465884&postcount=2696) - agrees Rysto may be right about our needing to go after low-posting players; says she doesn't want to babble to up her post count because that could get her lynched, too; then says this: "I'm also not completely sure we should lynch Pima. A beat cop has a pretty good chance of getting the wrong reading." See my next post for why I quote this.

2743 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8472268&postcount=2743) - says she has reread the first 1500 posts and still doesn't know who to trust.

2762 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474012&postcount=2762) - defends herself against Menocchio's voting her; explains her FOS @ JSexton. (Basically, she says JSexton was told to protect someone else, so the Mafia should know the doctor was protecting himself, so the only reason they wouldn't have gone for JSexton instead of the mason was because the Mafia knew JSexton wasn't the doctor, that is, fellow scum.)

2766 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474506&postcount=2766) - says she wasn't fearing for her life, just wanted to explain about her JSexton suspicions.

2778 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474728&postcount=2778) - another defense, against 3 votes now. Says she's already defended her FOS of JSexton, and now explains why she didn't want to delay lynching Autolycus (points out she unvoted when the opinions were we needed more time, and only revoted long afterwards to help pressure Autolycus into defending himself.)

2783 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474906&postcount=2783) - complains only 7 players have votes and less than 24 hours until deadline.

2790 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475005&postcount=2790) - thanks Pima for unvoting her; complains that all that's going on is a spat between Queuing and Malacandra and she has no idea if both, one or neither is scum.

2832 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476477&postcount=2832) - lists # posts per player for that "day", suggests we need to look at the low count posters since the high count posters have mostly turned out to be town.

2871 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478328&postcount=2871) - says she was happy to go after Aguecheek until his claim; then says 'screw it', beat cops haven't been much use anyway; votes to lynch Aguecheek

2876 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478449&postcount=2876) - urges last ten people to vote, time short and 2880 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478563&postcount=2880) corrects herself on time remaining

2899 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479041&postcount=2899) - says had voted for Aguecheek because he was so under the radar, now swayed by Queuings investigation of him, unvotes Aguecheek

2925 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479527&postcount=2925) - Explains she is under suspicion because someone posted that scum vote less often than townies; says she's never trusted MonkeyMensch, is irked that he didn't unvote her when the others did; votes to lynch MonkeyMensch.

2936 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479699&postcount=2936) - approves of MadTheSwines ideas on who to investigate, etc; urges people to switch votes from MTS to MonkeyMensch based on Queuing's analysis. Then 2837 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479706&postcount=2937) - realizes it's too late to have posted that.

2991 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483725&postcount=2991) - Wonders why SK killed Glee.

2996 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483946&postcount=2996) - says she investigated MonkeyMensch and found evidence she thinks exonerates him: he helped sway the votes to killing Suburuban Plankton, and why would a Mafia do that? Also calls out StarvingButStrong and Storyteller as the only two who didn't vote for SuburbanPlankton; also is suspicious of my belated post switch from MadTheSwine.

3003 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484131&postcount=3003) - responds to my (StarvingButStrong) defending myself, saying I'm only second on her list; says Storyteller's post reek of scum.

3005 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484146&postcount=3005) - responds to my (StarvingButStrong) pointing out that I was among the first to vote for Suburban Plankton, says I've drop a few more pegs on her scum list.

3007 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484171&postcount=3007) - responds to Storyteller asking for specifics by saying it wasn't one thing he'd said, but what he hadn't said.

3010 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484341&postcount=3010) - says she's gone over Storyteller's posts again and can't find concrete evidence for her suspicions; says he's still at the top of her scum list until she can find a better candidate.

3016 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484521&postcount=3016) - frustration with herself: first she was sure MonkeyMensch was scum, then not; then she was sure StarvingButStrong and Storyteller were scum, now not.

3020 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484743&postcount=3020) - response to Queuing asking why she no longer suspects MonkeyMensch. Says MM was responsible for swaying vote from Fernforest to SuburbanPlankton, something scum wouldn't do. Also says she has no real feel for which side Malacandra is on.

3027 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485059&postcount=3027) - response to Queuing. Says she's already admitted she might be wrong about Storyteller, says wait, she wants to make a case against Lakai.

3030 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485120&postcount=3030) - her analysis of Lakai's post (read it, doesn't summarize easily), concluding that she thinks he's scum. Also posts 3031, 3032, 3033, 3034, 3038, 3039, 3042 (won't bother with links, they're right after each other on same page) -- coding problems and attempted corrections, mostly about how Blaster Master also suspected Lakai, reposting the post where he analyses Lakai's voting pattern, and saying we should give more weight to what he posted, since we now know for sure he was Vig and thus on town side. In last one, she dismisses Lakai's defense as weak, says he didn't give real reasons, and why is he so defensive over a single poster suspecting him?

That takes us up to today -- you all should be able to remember what was said today. :)


Queuing has asked us to give our opinions on the people we investigate, so I will, but not in this post. I'd rather people spent at least a few seconds deciding what *they* think before they read my opinion.

Santo Rugger
04-20-2007, 11:19 PM
<snip>
Personally I think it is a good idea to not just give us posts, but also what you think after reading them. I can see a downside to this, that being doing so might influence the thoughts of others to much. However the upside, that being forcing you to give your opinion on who you analyzed is more beneficial in the long run.

Ideally what I would like to see is we get all these reports done by sunday afternoon/evening, we all take monday to read them all, and then everyone gives their opinion on everyone else. Except for the fact that this will take a fair amount of time for each of us, I see no downside to this. If you are town, why wouldn't you want to do this? If you are scum, well I see it being easier to catch you in a lie. I think, if this is done, we will improve our odds greatly of at least not having the scum beat us. I see no real way of getting the SK beyond luck.

What say all of you?

Emphasis mine. I think you pretty much answered your own question. I have a rugby match tomorrow, and I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to be in the mood on Sunday to do what I'll be doing at work all day Monday (no, not reading and posting to the Dope! I do safety basis, so pretty much fish through documents pulling out information all day). This game is supposed to be fun, and for me, wading through 60 pages of material at a time is what I get paid to do, not what I do for fun. Even if each person has your own summary, that's still 20 pages.

ArizonaTeach
04-21-2007, 12:27 AM
The Two-Fisted Adventures of StarvingButStrong.
A Play in One Act by ArizonaTeach

General Chit-Chat / Night Posts / "Empty" Posts
531, 536, 1534, 1615, 1627, 1637, 1960, 1961, 2287, 2333, 2510, 2646, 2650, 2669, 2952, 2955, 2973, 2978

Minor Metagame-Related
49, 95, 947, 2305, 2633, 2857, 2959, 2962, 2695, 3006, 3083

241 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405321&postcount=241): Overdramatic Night Post

342 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406697&postcount=342): Registers unease with the concept of her Trust/Distrust list as she believes it wouldn't work in this setting.

451 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408530&postcount=451): Trust/Distrust list. Slightly trusts Fern Forest, BlasterMaster. Slightly distrusts Queuing, MadTheSwine. Mostly distrusts Autolycus. Proposes point scale for useful posts (?!?). Asks to know genders, which puts her on Gadarene's Distrust list (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408582&postcount=456). And then zuma's (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408661&postcount=460).

465 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408749&postcount=465): Defends suspicions.

Does not vote on Day One (town lynched Enfant Terrible)

743 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416396&postcount=743): FOS BlasterMaster, votes Queuing. She gives no reasons. She backed up by nesta (!) by name in 752 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416481&postcount=752) and immediately after that kivvik (!!) votes (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416599&postcount=762) Queuing, too.

881 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418504&postcount=881): Backs up FlyingCowofDoom's (!!!) FOS at Pygmy Rugger.

1114 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422813&postcount=1114): Wants clarification as to why the town would want to lynch the SK.

Side Note: as of post 1198, StarvingButStrong and kivvik have not switched votes from Queuing, although nesta unvoted. They are joined here by FlyingCowofDoom. Also voting for Queuing at this time: zuma, Pleonast, brewha, glee, and Winston Smith. Note the ratio of known scum to known citizens to unknown citizens.

1261 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424279&postcount=1261): Proposes BlasterMaster kill-plan (targeting either Gadarene, Pleonast, or Queuing). Malacandra , FlyingCowofDoom , and nesta agree to this plan immediately.

1558 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8427219&postcount=1558): unvotes Queuing, votes Gadarene.

1695 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8431216&postcount=1695): Disses serial-killer's mafia kill. Explains lack of posts.

1827 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436004&postcount=1827) Targets and votes for Suburban Plankton hardcore. He never gets more than three votes.

1829 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436036&postcount=1829): Reiterates her vote.

1880 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8437930&postcount=1880): Muses on gameplay; wants possiblities for vig-kill.

1930 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439892&postcount=1930): Muses on why townies would want to target SK or Vig.

1949 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8440942&postcount=1949): Muses on how to tell townies from mafia.

2034 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443804&postcount=2034)Still claims Suburban Plankton is scum, encourages vig to kill him; acknowledges most will vote to vig pima.

2100 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444595&postcount=2100): unvotes Suburban Plankton (but still claims he's scum) and votes JSexton.

2116 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444761&postcount=2116): Goes along with vig kill for FCOD.

2157 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445665&postcount=2157): Claims to be the Great Pumpkin. Does not respond to JSexton's role claim.

2275 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8447881&postcount=2275): Night Post. Complains she wasn't able to vote for Suburban Plankton, and points out she voted for him early on.

2284 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8448173&postcount=2284)Points out cowgirl might have read the Forbidden Thread and asks if that would be a problem.

Side Note: While I agree that this is a question that should have been asked, who would it be more a problem for: the townies or the mafia?

2388 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454014&postcount=2388): Cheers death of two mafia and pima's charges against Auto and Fern.

2395 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454059&postcount=2395): Votes Auto, Vigs Fern. Now apparently wants SK taken out of the picture, which, interestingly enough, was explained (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8440353&postcount=1942) to her by kivvik.

2724 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466542&postcount=2724): Responds to accusations she has similar voting patterns to known mafia. Reiterates she voted for SP and explains vote switch to JSexton. Reiterates unable to spend time during day on boards.

2725 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466606&postcount=2725): Reiterates SP/JSexton votes.


2760 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8473608&postcount=2760): Wants to know why Queuing was so suspicious on Day Two.

Side Note: She apparently forgot she was the second to vote for him (without reason), followed by mafia, and it was her idea to do the conditional vig-kill with him in the mix.

2791 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475012&postcount=2791)Discourages investigation of Lakai. This is agreed (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475045&postcount=2792) to by Pygmy Rugger.

2825 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475951&postcount=2825): Wonders why Queuing believes hocow is town.

Side note: Although I understand what she's driving at, is this just a way of keeping hocow in the mix?

2847 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477380&postcount=2847): Believes there may be a bandwagon beginning about Queuing, and for some reason believes she will be blamed for it, so she votes Augecheek.

Side note: Full disclosure: She fingers me here. And again, she seems to forget entirely her early and nearly immovable vote for Queuing on Day Two.

2885 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478724&postcount=2885): Unvotes Augecheek in response to role claim.

2903 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479082&postcount=2903): Bandwagons MadTheSwine.

2946 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479834&postcount=2946): Unvotes MtS. Votes MonkeyMensch, 20 minutes after MtS was killed.

2948 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479852&postcount=2948): Realizes her error.

3002 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484107&postcount=3002): Reminds us again about her vote for Suburban Plankton. Explains late vote for MonkeyMensch. Claims to be vanilla townie.

3017 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484605&postcount=3017): Wonders why we should trust a beat cop role claim.

3045 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485985&postcount=3045): Volunteers to help out in Great Post Perusal Project.

3062 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486142&postcount=3062): Assigned brewha.

3082 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8489450&postcount=3082): Suspicious of MonkeyMensch.

3085 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8489748&postcount=3085): Retracts susicions on re-read.

Bottom Line. I'm suspicious as all hell. Sorry, StarvingButStrong, but there's some things in there that really, really, really need to be explained.

ArizonaTeach
04-21-2007, 12:35 AM
Hmmm...looking at that now there's a hundred things I would change (how did I miss some of those name-bolding), but the big thing is for post 2760 - I meant to say that StarvingButStrong wanted to know why the town was so suspicious of Queuing that day.

Lakai
04-21-2007, 01:09 AM
So Lakai what do you think of cowgirl?

I think Smitty makes her look more scummy. Smitty suspected glee and Auto and he voted for Enfant and Gadarene.

The new cowgirl so far has suspected me, MadTheSwine, Pygmy Rugger. MTS turned out to be town so her record is not too good. That plus I never did like her reasons for suspecting these people. She has defended herself pretty well however, which has stopped her from being on the top of my scum list.

What's suspicious about brewha is that he dismisses people's defenses way too easily and with little reasoning. Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408755&postcount=466), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435686&postcount=1820), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454864&postcount=2453), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484171&postcount=3007) and here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484341&postcount=3010).

Then after he FOS's Jsexton for not dying one night, he votes for Augecheek saying that beat cops are worthless anyway.

StarvingButStrong
04-21-2007, 01:59 AM
Wow. Yes, it does look like I was here and there a lot. It's too late to go through your list carefully right now -- I'll give it a better look tomorrow, and see if there's things I should explain. Right now, a couple of things leaped out at me, starting with a post where you completely got it backwards:





2760 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8473608&postcount=2760): Wants to know why Queuing was so suspicious on Day Two.



What I asked was:




In the meantime, can anyone refresh my memory on what happened to the suspicions of Queuing? He's seems to have gone from one of the most suspected to unnoticed. Was there some good evidence of towniness that I've forgotten? Or was it just a disgusted reaction to all the conditionals & factions & claims from our day of infamy?



I did not ask why Queuing was suspected (his probing for experience players, his insisting that CaerieD's breadcrumb was mistrust of Blaster Master, his defensiveness when people voted or mistrusted him).

I asked why the suspicions seemed to have totally vanished after Day 2. In the midst of all those factions, all those conditional 'lych X and then vig kill Y is mafia or Z if town'...after all that heat and storm, it seemed like Queuing went from most distrusted (I think he did a post listing all the other posts distrusting him!) and suddenly he's pretty much trusted as town. Why? What happened?



Side Note: She apparently forgot she was the second to vote for him (without reason), followed by mafia, and it was her idea to do the conditional vig-kill with him in the mix.



Nope. I knew I'd voted for him. Since I was reading back over the thread I'd been freshly reminded of how suspicious I'd been of him back on Day 2, and I couldn't call to mind why I'd changed.




2847 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477380&postcount=2847): Believes there may be a bandwagon beginning about Queuing, and for some reason believes she will be blamed for it, so she votes Augecheek.



Didn't I explain in that very post why I thought I'd be blamed? 1) No suspicions of Queuing posted for dozens of pages. 2) I ask why Queuing is no long suspicious. 3) Suddenly votes for Queuing start appearing.

Looked like cause and effect to me.


Bottom Line. I'm suspicious as all hell. Sorry, StarvingButStrong, but there's some things in there that really, really, really need to be explained.


Well, I think your misinterpretation of my post 2760 lead to the biggest point against me, and a couple of follow up ones based on it.

One of the other larger points is that a couple of known mafia voted the same way I did on Day 2, and backed my suggestion of setting up conditional kills for Blaster Master. For the first part, I have no control over how anyone else votes. It's apparently normal for mafia to vote along when a townie casts a vote for another townie, in an attempt to get a bandwagon rolling. Maybe that played a part, I don't know. As for them agreeing to the idea of conditional -- well, so did a whole lot of others. Proposed plans and counter plans flew like mad on Day 2.

And it's way late -- nearly 2!

If you want to point out which of the other points you find especially disturbing I'll see if I can explain them to your satisfaction.

MonkeyMensch
04-21-2007, 03:10 AM
A quick rebuttal on a couple of points queuing made with respect to me:Post 703
-votes for aguecheek
Post 704
-doesn’t unvote, mentions chrisk bandwagon and votes for brewha
Post 710
-now he unvotes, but its chrisk not aguecheek
Post 711
-finally gets it right and unvotes aguecheek
(somewhat odd all of these errors, could be scum ensuring a vote for non-scum gets there, or could just be errors)
What is odd about that pair of errors is that we have a no-editing rule. I was following that rule and forced to make new posts to correct the errors. I'm sure players panicked and were flummoxed by my choices for up to five minutes!
Post 1848
-something about Sir Andrew, after aguecheek had voted for him, no defense ( I am assuming this is a joke I don’t get)
Yes, it was a joke you didn't get. See Twelfth Night for more yuks. :)
So what do I get out of this? Well the first thing that strikes me is the large number of "nothing posts" (for clarification I put drinking posts, joke posts and rule clarification posts here generally). He has 33 of them out of a total of 70 posts. This is the highest percent yet.
Nothing posts? Posts where I might express bewilderment or enjoyment of the game, or maybe compliment another player on a good post? Shit! I've been enjoying myself: SCUM_TELL!
The second thing that strikes me is the constant FOSing and voting for brewha. Brewha for the most part hasn't struck anybody else as much of anything. This could of course mean many things, but I find it odd. Much like I found it odd that glee kept coming up in a lot of the known scum's posts. So why is MM picking on him? Because he knows he isn't scum, and its an easy target? Because he knows he is scum and this gives the impression of voting while doing very little? Because he has picked up on something the rest of us have missed? The most likely, IMO, would be one of the first 2 options.

I love your second option: I vote and FOS constantly while doing very little. Other than expressing whom I suspect and voting on those ideas what would you have me do?
The 3rd thing that strikes me is that he claims to have read the thread numerous times, one of the only people to make this claim. Yet he provides little to no analysis that is new and refreshing.
When I read the thread I see ballpark 75% sincere, innocent groping in the dark mixed with 25% clever, misleading deceit. It's tough to tell the difference, so I try to read for subtext or motivation for the post, rather than its content. I come up with sparse notes about feelings and intuition on a couple or three players. So far the mafiosi have not been in the habit of dropping thier wallets and purses on the ground to be found...
So in conclusion, I think we have a scum here.
Really?

I've voted and unvoted at various times for 2 citizens, 2 mafiosi and 4 players who are still in the game, their identities not yet established.

You, on the other hand, have voted and unvoted for 8 citizens, 2 mafiosi and three players still unknowns in the game. Maybe we could start using you as a bizarro-detective... :)

I having fun because I swear I remember NAF telling to at the start of the game. So I will do so. :D

MonkeyMensch
04-21-2007, 03:29 AM
StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima. ...
Actually, I said that a possible motive also existed for the SK to have gone after pimaspinner. I don't know how valuable the post mortems of who did what when both the victims are citizens can be, but I wanted to point out that possibility.

Malacandra
04-21-2007, 04:11 AM
Isn't that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where's Malacandra? Yoo hoo!


Ditto to what Queuing said. A single-role result is the least likely to be true. The odds are much improved now to how they were a few days ago, but still about 2:1 against.

StarvingButStrong
04-21-2007, 09:47 AM
Announcement: Brewha is a man!

I'd PMed and posted asking about his gender, but then I went ahead and posted using she/her. I was just so glad to have the fiddly job of making all those links done and wanted it posted and off my To Do list.

And.....I guessed wrong. :( (Not unusual for me, especially in this game.)

Please mentally change every she to he and her to him/his in my long post, okay? And I've got to go find a blackboard for my penance. (Remark that will only make sense a bit later.)

I'd already shut down my computer last night before I remembered I was supposed to post my opinion on brewha, so here's that post (with pronouns corrected this morning:


On my scale from 0 to 100 (zero being definite scum, 100 being confirmed citizen) I give brewha a 75. (He's got good lyrics and you can dance to his beat.)

(BTW, If I'm wrong about brewha's sex, I will find a blackboard and write "brewha is a guy" ten times for each wrong pronoun.)

Remember, I was deliberately looking for even the most slightly suspicious stuff. Here are the only things that struck me:

* Twice near the start of the game brewha posted about how he couldn't be a part of a lynching, after deciding he didn't really or much suspect the proposed lynchee. But at least three times later on he leaves his vote for someone he doubts is scum, saying at least we'll derive some information from the death.

You could see this as inconsistent behavior, an early show of exacting 'morality' followed by revealing callousness. OTOH, you could see it as an evolution. At first the idea of killing an innocent is horrible, later you come to realize it's unavoidable and maybe even essential to playing the game.


* He does some 'reactionary' posting. If X votes for him, he votes for X. Tit for tat isn't exactly the thoughtful, reasoned voting that best helps the town.


* He cast his first vote for Autolycus saying he saw no reason to delay the lynch, though there had been many posts pointing out that the longer the town takes to discuss during a day, the more info they gain. He later unvotes Autolycus, which could have been to avoid the perception of scumminess.


* He rides Autolycus pretty hard before his lynching. Probably just because he was really convinced he was the Godfather, but the intensity seemed...out of proportion, somehow.


* After Pimaspinner's ideas lead to the death of two townies, he says (in post 2696)

"I'm also not completely sure we should lynch Pima. A beat cop has a pretty good chance of getting the wrong reading."

Which strikes me as a bit strange -- there wasn't any general 'lynch Pima' mood going on at that point which he could be reacting to, which it seems like what should have elicited that type of comment. Absent that, it calls to mind the way you can plant ideas about people purely by saying you don't agree with the idea. "Oh, I'd never say John was cheap." Doesn't that immediately make you suspect that John is indeed cheap? And this is even stronger: it's not that he doesn't believe we should hang Pima, he's just "not completely sure" we should do it. Which rather implies "I'm *mostly* sure." Which, if he were scum and wanted to get us to kill another townie for them, would be a really clever way of planting the idea of lynching Pima while leaving brewha able to deny it completely, and point to the post as proof he was against the idea.

Or it was just him thinking aloud. He himself had been wondering if Pima's failures should be interpreted as Pima lying about being a beat cop, and thus we should hang her...but he's not sure.

The first interpretation sort of requires a Machiavellian nature, though, which I didn't see anywhere else, so I lean towards the second.

* In 3003 he said he'd gone over Storyteller's posts and said they 'reeked of scumminess'. In 3007 he tells Storyteller it's nothing he said but what he hadn't said. In 3010 he says she went over the posts again and found no concrete evidence, but still found him the most suspicious player. In 3016 he says he's no longer sure.

His first post seems way too emphatic given how quickly he recanted.

OTOH, I've had my own opinion of players swing very fast.



And that's it. Just a handful of things that MIGHT be tells, but which also could have perfectly innocent interpretations.

Personally I wouldn't hang a dog on that small a level of suspiciousness. If the only evidence a Mafia leaves is that vague, heaven help the town in ferreting them out.

MonkeyMensch
04-21-2007, 11:30 AM
Morning all.

Brewha has moved from the suspicion side of my gray cloud of tertium quid over to peeking out the towny side. A Mafioso would have no reason to publicly defend the actions of a citizen (me), which brewha has done. This move isn't meant to sway anyone else's opinion of brewha since you aren't certain that I'm citizen. But from my side, with my citizenship as private knowledge, it's a clear stamp of towniness. I'm happy my persistence in suspicion never came to any bad end; or maybe I'm happy that my votes of conscience are so roundly ignored. :)

With respect to Smitty/cowgirl she's rising up out of the scummy top of my suspicion list. Mafiosi have nothing to do all during our day meetings except check on their level of suspicion and then bandwagon (subtly) whomever they've picked out for the day. I would find that all a little boring and think that's why smitty drifted off. Cowgirl's been posting to her credit but though it's different people it remains the same role.

Santo Rugger
04-21-2007, 10:45 PM
<snip>
With respect to Smitty/cowgirl she's rising up out of the scummy top of my suspicion list. Mafiosi have nothing to do all during our day meetings except check on their level of suspicion and then bandwagon (subtly) whomever they've picked out for the day. I would find that all a little boring and think that's why smitty drifted off. Cowgirl's been posting to her credit but though it's different people it remains the same role.

cowgirl's been suspicious to me, also. I explained why yesterday. Ask Queuing if you want to know what the post number is.

Kat
04-22-2007, 01:50 AM
Player: Fretful Porpentine
Voted for:
Post 421 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408314&postcount=421): Queuing, deeply suspicious of “lynch sturmhauke” strategy
Post 706 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415675&postcount=706): FCoD, for “hopping onto incipient bandwagons (Autolycus, the late lamented Enfant Terrible, and now chrisk).”
Post 761 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416598&postcount=761): Unvoted FCoD, voted Pleonast, on a hunch/suspicious of wildly shifting trust-list
Post 1570 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8427333&postcount=1570) (Yay! Over half done!): Unvoted Pleonast and voted for Blaster Master’s plan 1 (Vig kill Winston Smith with no conditional)
Post 1844 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436388&postcount=1844): JSexton for lynch and glee or kivvik for Vig kill
Post 1854 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436521&postcount=1854): unvoted JSexton, voted kivvik for lynch & glee for Vig kill if kivvik found to be scum
Post 1975 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442892&postcount=1975): Unvoted kivvik and voted FCoD
Post 2124 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444821&postcount=2124): Unvoted FCoD and voted to Vig kill instead, voted JSexton to lynch
Post 2199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446215&postcount=2199): Unvoted JSexton and voted Suburban Plankton
Post 2577 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458650&postcount=2577): Did not vote for Autolycus after called on lack of vote, said it seemed pointless
Post 2583 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458690&postcount=2583): Voted for Autolycus in post 2583
Post 2818 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475664&postcount=2818) Voted Queuing
Post 2914 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479211&postcount=2914): Unvoted Queuing and voted brewha
Voted for by:
Post 2915 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479244&postcount=2915): MadTheSwine
Suspected/Distrusted:
Post 421 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408314&postcount=421): Enfant Terrible, Menocchio, Queuing, Aguecheek and Fern Forest; not sure he trusted sturmhauke
Post 632 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414695&postcount=632): Malacandra and FCoD, for jumping from Autolycus bandwagon to Enfant Terrible bandwagon
Post 1777 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434123&postcount=1777): Suspicious of Lakai, and less confident of Queuing than everyone else was
Post 1853 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436499&postcount=1853): Blaster Master, JSexton, glee and kivvik
Post 1865 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8437114&postcount=1865): Felt that definitely glee and Blaster Master, possibly kivvik, Rysto and JSexton, were all confederates
Post 1922 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439336&postcount=1922): Continued to put forth theory that Blaster Master, glee & kivvik were Mafia in cahoots with each other to kill Winston Smith
Post 2918 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479304&postcount=2918) and post 2931 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479654&postcount=2931): Threatens to vote MadTheSwine for suspecting and voting for her and for "bizarre" attempts to cast suspicion on her
Suspected/Distrusted by:
Post 2599 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8459006&postcount=2599): FOSed by Autolycus
Post 2926 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479533&postcount=2926)
MadTheSwine lists her voting history
Defended/supported/trusted:
Post 421 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408314&postcount=421): Rysto and glee
Post 1777 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8434123&postcount=1777): Rysto and storyteller
Defended/supported/trusted by:
Post 410 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408124&postcount=410): glee
Post 847 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8418155&postcount=847): pimaspinner (note: not one of pima’s investigations)
Post 1061 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421755&postcount=1061): Made JSexton’s “neutral” list
Other:
Post 242 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405324&postcount=242)
Pointed out it makes sense to take out people with a feel for the game, from Mafia’s point of view
Post 289 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405850&postcount=289)
Posted comment theorizing beat cops would be better than 50% chance right for Citizen, probably false positive on non-citizen result
Post 548 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8411101&postcount=548)
Supported the 12-hour countdown in
Post 632 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414695&postcount=632)
Decried bandwagon voting and theorized some of those who bandwagoned Enfant Terrible (listed those players) were Mafia
Did not jump on chrisk bandwagon: “partly because I am inherently suspicious of bandwagons, partly because chrisk didn't vote at all in the last round of votes, and I'm having a hard time believing that a self-respecting Mafia member wouldn't vote for someone.”
Post 684 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415381&postcount=684)
Theorized the SK might not kill every night, would want to stay under the radar as long as possible.
Thought the Miller should block SK or Vigilante automatically
Post 721 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415908&postcount=721)
In response to FCoD’s defense:
“I'm willing to concede that there are plausible reasons to suspect chrisk, and although I think Autolycus is probably just playing the fool, I can see why you'd vote for him. On the other hand, Autolycus and chrisk were both obvious candidates for a bandwagon, even with only one official vote cast, so a reasonably alert Mafia member might jump on in time to grab the oh-so-not-suspicious second vote instead of the oh-so-suspicious third one...”
But did not unvote
Post 727 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415908&postcount=721)
Disputed hocow’s idea that Blaster Master could be SK, pointed out that by hocow’s reasoning, Blaster would be either Vigilante or Mafia
Posts 1404 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425282&postcount=1404), 1474 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425718&postcount=1474), 1521 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8426272&postcount=1521), 1682 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8430888&postcount=1682) and 1795 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435070&postcount=1795)
Called out by Queuing for low post count ( in 1521, Queuing urges Blaster Master to kill one of the players on his “low post” list)
Post 1570 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8427333&postcount=1570)
Pointed out it’s too easy for Townie to suspect Townie & Mafia to create fake factions, so we can’t tell anything by who sides with whom
Suspicious of people who have posted a lot over people who haven’t
Post 1674 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8430693&postcount=1674)
Corrected Kat’s stupid misunderstanding of a post by zuma
Suggested rereading Day Two posts to see who was fanning the flames with apples of discord
Post 1828 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436020&postcount=1828)
Supported directed Vig kills to assure transparency in the decision-making process
Posts 1836 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436159&postcount=1836) and 1843 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436350&postcount=1843)
Recaps Day Two Vig kill discussion & voting
Post 1872 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8437420&postcount=1872)
Theorizes Mafia pre-strategy: Mafia member in danger of lynching would role-claim Vigilante, to explain her suspicion of Blaster Master
Post 1922 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439336&postcount=1922)
“I don't believe Blaster Master is the Vig at all. I think he is Mafia and claimed to be the Vig when the pressure was on him. The real Vig believes BM to be the Serial Killer, but sees no reason to make a public counterclaim. (Why would he, when BM is constrained to do the town's bidding and the Vig would likely become the Mafia's target if he outed himself?)”
Post 1947 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8440906&postcount=1947)
“Perhaps it's time to put the "good analysis (or worse yet, analysis I agree with) = town" / "bad analysis or analysis I don't agree with = Mafia" myth to rest for good? Because I'm beginning to wonder if it EVER holds true...”
Post 1950 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8440969&postcount=1950)
Advocated studying voting records instead of discussion/analysis posts
Post 1994 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443050&postcount=1994)
Pointed out lynching FCoD was easiest way to substantiate pimaspinner’s claim & pima would be confirmed Mafia if FCoD was Town
Post 2199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446215&postcount=2199)
Outlined 2-night Vig-kill/investigation scenario involving FCoD and JSexton
Post 2244 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8447268&postcount=2244)
Points out Suburban Plankton was the only suspect who didn’t role claim
Post 2399 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454081&postcount=2399)
Disputes the possibility that Fern Forest is SK, says FF too high profile & odds are an SK reading by beat cop is a false positive
More convinced about Autolycus,
Post 2412 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454193&postcount=2412)
Reiterates that FF posted too much about SK for it to make sense for FF to be SK
Post 2519 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8459599&postcount=2619)
Pointed out Autolycus’s accusation was the first FoS she got in the game
Post 2694 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8465849&postcount=2694)
Suggested pimaspinner report all findings (in case pima was bumped off overnight or turned out to be Magia), but players should not necessarily act on them, as findings were unreliable in respect to power roles
Post 2706 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466022&postcount=2706)
Scary-math-filled probability-related post on beat cop investigations
Post 2716 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466287&postcount=2716)
Corrected probability, based on miscounting players left
Post 2723 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466432&postcount=2723)
Identified 3 Mafia voting patterns
Pointed out brewha and SBS fit the observed patterns
Post 2726 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466831&postcount=2726)
Admits her attempts to analyze voting patterns and catch Mafia don’t seem to be working well, but she was right about kivvik by accident
Post 2734 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8469247&postcount=2734)
Points out Malacandra fits Mafia voting patterns, but “ho-ly cow” story is too goofy not to be true
Post 2755 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8472867&postcount=2755)
Playerlist, marking who was dead, alive & known/suspected roles
Post 2922 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479456&postcount=2922)
Compares brewha’s voting to Mafia voting in post 2922
Had a bad feeling Autolycus was telling the truth, but didn’t speak up about it
Post 2923 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479476&postcount=2923)
Corrected the link to the Mafia voting pattern post
Post 3037 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485250&postcount=3037)
Requests info on why Rysto is trusted
Post 3046 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486000&postcount=3046)
Offered to analyze a player’s posting history, preferred Smitty/cowgirl as a subject
(skipping the discussion on who’s doing who)
Post 3086 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8489750&postcount=3086)
Di…er…investigated ArizonaTeach

Kat
04-22-2007, 01:52 AM
Man, that was long.

Santo Rugger
04-22-2007, 04:31 AM
Man, that was long.

Yeah, it reminds me of when a freshman physics professor assigns me 3 chapters to read before the next lecture, and I just skip it. No offence, but I don't plan on reading a word of it.

StarvingButStrong
04-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Man, that was long.

Yep. Takes forever to do those, doesn't it?

But, what's your verdict on Fretful Porpentine?

StarvingButStrong
04-22-2007, 01:26 PM
[off topic]

Rysto, I think something strange is going on with your account.

I noticed in a post a few pages back that your status was 'guest.' I was going to suggest that you needed to join soon because aren't 'guests' limited to just a month? And since this game started on 3/26 and it's now 4/21 and the game is far from over..... What would happen to your participation in the game when your posting privileges went away?

But then I thought I might be wrong about the dates so I clicked on your name, and it says you've been a member since 6/22/02? So why is it calling you a guest? Weird.


[/off topic]

Fretful Porpentine
04-22-2007, 02:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that a poster's official status lapses back to "guest" if their membership expires.

Kat
04-22-2007, 03:03 PM
But, what's your verdict on Fretful Porpentine?

Overall, it seems pretty harmless, but there are a couple of red flags:
(1) The elaborate conspiracy theory involving Blaster Master and others. It seems a bit far-fetched (especially when she added Rysto to the list (after trusting him twice)), and she pushed it awful hard.
(2) Voted for Autolycus, then later said she had a feeling he was telling the truth. But it took her about 400 posts to mention that.
(3) Apparent retaliatory "suspicion" towards MadTheSwine. Revenge votes are bad, they screw up later analysis. At least she didn't actually vote for him, though.

I'm not sure yet if that's enough to swing her onto my Mafia list, though. She's on the ? list.

Queuing
04-22-2007, 05:03 PM
Nothing posts: 34, 188, 192, 574, 605, 1013, 1076, 1337, 1571, 1767, 2130, 2288, 2432, 2662, 2688, 2747, 2777, 2786, 2859, 2972, 2974, 2979, 3028

post 602 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414322&postcount=602) -FOS chrisk for wanting to do trust lists again and votes chrisk

post 780 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416904&postcount=780) -talks about BM, and not wanting to jump on that bandwagon quite yet, says can’t tell re: gadarene and pleonast, leaves vote with chrisk

post 784 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416955&postcount=784) -quotes BM (who said its odd that the game punishes those who talk a lot, as well as defending the FOS of PR), PR wonders why he felt it necessary to defend and says its making it harder for him to not switch to BM

post 785 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416961&postcount=785) -quotes FF (who talks about absence of glee, Winston and storyteller) says he thinks they said they wouldn’t be available for next 48 hours and should be given a chance (is this one of the errors PR is accused of? 2 confirmed, 1 probable townie)

post 788 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416994&postcount=788) -responds about some having IRL commitments
-in favour of 12 hour countdown

post 789 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8416999&postcount=789) -a post about 12 hour countdowns, and not starting them to early, comes out against this sort of, as he thinks its “squeezing blood from a turnip” and votes will jump around to much leading to votes to trusted people, Scum should be found by logic and guts and shouldn’t try to artificially delay majority vote
(Something of an odd post IMO)

post 915 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419439&postcount=915) -claims going to reread thread and look for the posts in which he thought posters said they would be away

post 919 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419521&postcount=919) -quotes a number of posts from different players, inc MOD for some reason, about skimming thread, and leaving, and working. This was in response to MTS who FOS’d him for the 3 players who would be away, who never said such a thing

post 920 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419538&postcount=920) -posts from Family Feud thread, which talks about who will be away in that game. He is also part of that, and I am assuming this is meant as see I may have confused this thread with that one post. I find this a little odd as well

post 924 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8419561&postcount=924) -quotes Lakai who had found it odd that he was quoting from family feud thread, answers again with it was simple confusion and assumptions

post 958 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420168&postcount=958) -quotes glee who voted for PR. PR questions this vote as glee was one of the people who he had said would be gone, and who MTS thought the reason PR said so was because it had been said on the Mafia boards and PR had mixed them up

post 976 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420426&postcount=976) -quotes me, and my explanation as to why I was going after BM day 2. PR agrees with me and votes for BM here

post 981 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420475&postcount=981) -unvotes chrisk, and gives reasons: thinks the cop claim is bogus, and because JSexton will taking over for him.
-this unvote had to happen anyway, as he had voted for BM

post 1046 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421422&postcount=1046) -quotes glee who voted for him not because of MTS theory but another mistake, asks what was that mistake? From re-reading the thread this mistake appears to be the samething that MTS said, but not the theory, which is a little odd IMO

post 1119 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422866&postcount=1119) -quotes lakai about the DR self-protecting, and says it is scary, and asks BM is he knows who the DOC is. (I don’t really get this post)

post 1134 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422988&postcount=1134) -quotes me, talks about who should be killed when in day 2, and unvotes BM

post 1220 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424000&postcount=1220) -still in day 2 fiasco, quotes gadarene and talks about a riddle which means little, also quotes SP who outlined the sides on day 2, and talks that pleonast might be the best vote, but still votes for no one

post 1223 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424034&postcount=1223) -quotes gadarene, still in midst of day 2, and agrees that splitting the killings is the best, and votes to lynch pleonast

post 1244 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424176&postcount=1244) -quotes Zuma who says lets get you (referring to me) to 10 votes and then talk, so PR obliges and unvotes pleonast for me and vig kill zuma (this was after role claim by pleonast)

post 1276 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424355&postcount=1276) -quotes pleonast who says why kill zuma? It was started by me. PR answers it’s the 1 from each side thing, and VIG kills conditional vote of if I am scum get gadarene, if not get zuma or pleonast

post 1279 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424382&postcount=1279) -quotes zuma who says let me martyr myself and move onto whom BM should kill, PR says he sees no reason to do anything but what was in post 1276

post 1317 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424737&postcount=1317) -quotes zuma re: VIG kill stubbornness, tells BM who to kill

post 1390 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425206&postcount=1390) -seems unhappy with day 2 and how 2 masons and the VIG were outed, says it was because of prolonging day 2, and says self-sacrifice is best for group

post 1406 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425286&postcount=1406) -quotes JSexton who was not understanding the self-sacrifice thing about masons. PR answers he had never played game before but that importance of masons was keeping role secret until end game, and how now the mafia knows 3 power roles which is bad for town

post 1451 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425515&postcount=1451) -unvotes queuing, votes Gadarene

post 1479 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425739&postcount=1479) -continues with JSexton on roles of masons

post 1499 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425945&postcount=1499) -the argument about masons continues

post 1501 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8426005&postcount=1501) -more mason stuff, and says has confidence in masons

post 1520 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8426254&postcount=1520) -More mason mentions, with a quote from BM that explains PR’s point

post 1557 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8427218&postcount=1557) -a vote for BM’s plan number 2

post 1756 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8433141&postcount=1756) -quotes sturmhauke, who had FOS’d him because of his voting pinging around all of the bandwagons of day 2. He explains his voting as follows:
Chrisk: for trying to expose the cop, but when it was decided that JSexton deserved a chance, he switched
BM: felt he was suspicious until role claim and switched to one of the 2 sides formed
Pleonast: voted him because of which side he was on and felt gadarene was town
Queuing: reluctantly voted for me when pleonast claimed
Gadarene: changed to him to end day sooner, but that he was town and info could be gained by his death

post 1757 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8433158&postcount=1757) -quotes ArizonaTeach, who had said he was trying to keep his head down while the town had an advantage. PR wants to know why he would do such a thing.

post 1760 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8433318&postcount=1760) -quotes MTS, who votes for him, and PR asks why. He again states the reason he wanted to end day 2 was because of the number of accusations flying around, and that they were random, and believed the best source of info would be lynching at that time

post 1798 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435123&postcount=1798) -votes for pimaspinner because he doesn’t like the reasoning behind pima FOSing Rysto

post 1811 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435305&postcount=1811) -quotes SP, who wanted to know why it would be better for VIG to kill SK then SK be lynched
-PR answers because it would confirm BM, and that the lynch has bad odds of catching

post 1814 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435358&postcount=1814) -quotes SP again who says the SK should be lynched ASAP (this coming from a known scum, who would rather have us waste a lynch on the SK then them waste a night kill), PR responds that it may at some point be necessary for the town to kill BM, right now he should be directed to go after the SK, at least for tonight

post 1838 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8436207&postcount=1838) -quotes BM, who had found SP post very suspicious (the one quoted above), and PR doesn’t understand how BM thought PR was agreeing with SP ( I am on PR’s side here, as I don’t see it either)

post 1916 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8438985&postcount=1916) -quotes and is confused by a post of FF’s which talks about scum potentially unveiling to keep the SK win away, and PR unvotes pima

post 2011 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443511&postcount=2011) -votes FCOD, and might as well get clock started

post 2131 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444996&postcount=2131) -unvotes FCOD, votes JSexton, vig FCOD

post 2220 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446505&postcount=2220) -quotes BM, unvotes JSexon, votes SP

post 2433 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454533&postcount=2433) -quotes MTS, about mason’s claiming, agrees with me that masons should not claim

post 2438 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454634&postcount=2438) -explains why he hasn’t voted for auto yet, to keep the discussion going

post 2488 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456229&postcount=2488) -quotes Cowgirl, who had FOS’d him because he was dropped from the day 2 list of conditional kills and because he was voting for BM. He answers by showing the people he was grouped in with for voting for BM 3-4 of them are confidently town ( I am including myself in this to make the 4) and how does that prove anything (it doesn’t but it doesn’t prove he is town either). Also explains that some of the reason for the voting for him on day 2 was because he had thought people were out of town and was wrong, leading to the suspicion of messing up the boards (most of the people he had screwed up on are confirmed townies). Cowgirl also questioned him about the credit he gave to BM re: conditional vigs when it was starvingbutstrong, PR corrects cowgirl about what he said, he actually said the vig plan not idea

post 2546 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457949&postcount=2546) -disagrees that pima should announce whom he will investigate, as well as commenting on not outing masons

post 2549 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457962&postcount=2549) -quotes pima who puts a list of whom they will be investigating, and PR likes the list better

post 2552 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458002&postcount=2552) -quotes Arizona, who FOS’d him for not wanting cop to announce whom they will be investigating. PR seems to be worried about pima investigating a mason, appeals to JSexton

post 2554 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458050&postcount=2554) -quotes storyteller who comes out in favour of pima announcing to allow the other beat cop to do as they please. PR says ok, so long as it’s a list of suspects, again to avoid outing a mason

post 2558 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458140&postcount=2558) -quotes me, who had asked him about why he is waiting for JSexton, reply is because of his experience

post 2576 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458588&postcount=2576) -Sturmhauke announced, and PR retracts his statements about pima announcing and now believes he should
-also quotes pima, who had FOS’d Lakai and PR for not voting for auto, and PR responds is it really necessary for me to? PR does not vote for auto here

post 2588 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458731&postcount=2588) -does vote for auto now, as to not hold up the process

post 2691 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8465818&postcount=2691) -comments about how it was a bad night, and slightly FOSes Pima for getting 2 citizens killed

post 2731 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8468193&postcount=2731) -quotes fretful, and says yes that is what I wanted to say but better about previous post

post 2753 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8472766&postcount=2753) -quotes rysto, who had FOS’d low post count players, agrees with rysto and says the thread has slowed down enough so unable to keep up no longer an excuse

post 2776 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474707&postcount=2776) -wonders why malacandra is so fired up about my FOS

post 2792 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475045&postcount=2792) -agrees that there is no reason to reinvestigate lakai at this time, quotes starvingbutstrong

post 2806 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475408&postcount=2806) -FOS’s cowgirl (and quotes her), mostly about old conversations

post 2813 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475490&postcount=2813) -quotes Cowgirl, PR is mostly talking about how we have information we didn’t have back then, so its hard to look at old posts

post 2831 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8476265&postcount=2831) -votes for cowgirl, as he suspects that she is trying to start bandwagons

post 2858 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477804&postcount=2858) -quotes storyteller, who had voted for PR, PR explains that he found cowgirl’s going back to old posts suspicious, particularly on the first day with MTS and random FOSes, and he quotes cowgirl again when she said she had reasons to suspect everyone and is putting out ideas, PR says this is also a random FOS and why is it ok for to do it now, but not MTS way back?

post 2862 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477936&postcount=2862) -claims all posts made before BM claims are irrelevant for 2 reasons; it would have been dumb for the mafia to show all allegiance then, and he doesn’t want to go back to read that because he was confused

post 2865 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478057&postcount=2865) -quotes aguecheek, who had claimed and investigated me and said I was the Sk
-unvotes cowgirl and votes aguecheek

post 2935 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479693&postcount=2935) -quotes MTS about who cops should investigate and that aguecheek should post first, PR agrees that Aguecheek should announce first

post 3022 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484916&postcount=3022) -wants to know why I voted for him

So what do I get out of this?

Here is a player who is very concerned about masons. He has many discussions and slight arguments about masons. I am not sure why. There are a few reasons that I can think of. He is a new player, and wants to understand the game, and in particulalr just how valueable masons are. I can understand this. Masons seem to be one of the constants of this game, yet their actual power is questionable. A more suspicious viewing of it could be that he had been FOS'd a few times, and could have been setting up a fake mason claim. A fake mason claim is of little use, however it does kill a mason (most likely) for a scum. They way this game has gone this could be a worthwhile trade in the eyes of scum. PR is constantly telling the masons to not show themselves.

The other thing I noticed is a lack of "nothing"posts. The vast majority of PR's posts have some sort of content, be them votes, FOS or what have you. Also a lot are about masons. I am unsure what this means. There isn't a lot of indepth analysis, or lists of who he thinks is scum, but there aren't a lot of fluff, or giant posting breaks either.

Another I noticed is that one of the reasons PR seems to have made a number of potential scum lists was because of an error in regards to who would be away, when they never said such a thing in this thread, and how he may have become thread confused. A problem with this is the 3 people he said (glee, winston and storyteller) 2 are confirmed town, so this theory falls apart somewhat.

So in conclusion, ummm I am not sure. I find some things scummy, and some things town. Of course this would be just how the scum would want to play. However due to my not being sure, I believe I am going to

unvote Pygmy Rugger and

lynch Monkey Mensch who in my reading still seems to be scum to me. The most likely choice I can see so far.

Queuing
04-22-2007, 05:17 PM
A quick rebuttal on a couple of points queuing made with respect to me:
What is odd about that pair of errors is that we have a no-editing rule. I was following that rule and forced to make new posts to correct the errors. I'm sure players panicked and were flummoxed by my choices for up to five minutes!

True, the confusion would not have been great. I still think it was odd to make so many mistakes in so short of a time frame that you wouldn't of previewed once.

Yes, it was a joke you didn't get. See Twelfth Night for more yuks. :)

I knew it was a joke, never read Twelfth Night however. Not a real important part of a defense though is it?

Nothing posts? Posts where I might express bewilderment or enjoyment of the game, or maybe compliment another player on a good post? Shit! I've been enjoying myself: SCUM_TELL!

Yeah, having fun. This game stopped being about fun on day 2! :D I joke, I joke. What I mean is you have a large percentage of fun posts (if you prefer). While this is a game, and is meant to be fun, the game is about catching scum, not talking about drinking at night. I find this defense a very easy one to make, "Oh I am just having fun, relax" while not addressing the main concern at all.

I love your second option: I vote and FOS constantly while doing very little. Other than expressing whom I suspect and voting on those ideas what would you have me do?

Yeah, it sure is easy to throw out votes and FOS's. The thing is a lot of your votes and FOS's are not based on reasons at all, just thrown out there. I am looking for posts that actually help out the town. The way you help out the town is by giving reasons for your suspicions. Even if they are stupid ones (see mine on the 1st day re: sturmhauke), reasons given are important. This is what I meant but doing very little. Voting and FOSing is the easy part of this game.

When I read the thread I see ballpark 75% sincere, innocent groping in the dark mixed with 25% clever, misleading deceit. It's tough to tell the difference, so I try to read for subtext or motivation for the post, rather than its content. I come up with sparse notes about feelings and intuition on a couple or three players. So far the mafiosi have not been in the habit of dropping thier wallets and purses on the ground to be found...

True enough. The mafia have played this game well, or the town have played it crappy. Still it would have been nice for a guy who has claimed to read this thread at least 3 times to come up with something new and original.

Really?

Yep, still do. Hence my vote :p


I've voted and unvoted at various times for 2 citizens, 2 mafiosi and 4 players who are still in the game, their identities not yet established.

You, on the other hand, have voted and unvoted for 8 citizens, 2 mafiosi and three players still unknowns in the game. Maybe we could start using you as a bizarro-detective... :)

I having fun because I swear I remember NAF telling to at the start of the game. So I will do so. :D


Hehe, maybe. My record, as almost everyone else's, has sucked. I am pretty sure I am horrible at this game. We can try your bizarro detective idea, but let's see after you hang, ok?

ArizonaTeach
04-22-2007, 05:57 PM
Wow, things slowed down to a crawl, didn't they?

StarvingButStrong, you asked a question that deserves an answer, and I apologize for taking a couple of days to check back and provide you with it. You're right; I totally, totally misread what you said about Queuing. That changes things a LOT for me.

Here's what I can say as absolute fact: known scum agreed with you on many issues really, really quickly. Now, as with everything, that could mean two polar opposite things. At the moment, I'm leaning towards them seeing an opportunity and leaping, rather than you being mafia.

I'll say this again officially for the skimmers: My belief is StarvingButStrong is town.

Of course, based on my voting record, this obviously means you're scum.

I also want to say that while I appreciate the work that's going into these post analysis, please don't forget to look at who responds to what your assigned poster is saying. Following the threads of conversation beyond StarvingButStrong's posts allowed me to get a handle on things a little better, I believe.

With that in mind, noting that Malacandra, nesta, and FCOD immediately supported the disastrous vig-kill plan where Pleonast, Gadarene, and Queuing were the sacrificial lambs, I believe that, my friends, was a serious mob pile on.

Vote Malacandra.

ArizonaTeach
04-22-2007, 06:19 PM
I'll say this again officially for the skimmers: My belief is StarvingButStrong is town.Or, upon reflection, SK. Dammit.

hocow
04-22-2007, 07:37 PM
Hmm. I actually was thinking that Fretful might be the SK, but re-reading your analysis of his posts, I can see where you might assume Starving is. At least, the way he was trying to deter the crowd from possibly fishing out the SK. Either way I think they both might be scum.

One thing I noticed was FCOD false miller claim. He dropped 2 names, Queuing and Malacandra. This asks the question of how could he have been so certain that neither one of these 2 were power roles? This puts a bit of suspicion on Queuing, whom I have and still trust to be town. However, Malacandra (as I have posted before) has raised my FOS on more than one occasion. FCOD said he "targetted" him twice, which is a risky move if you have no advance knowledge of of who is who. I believe he knew that it was ok to drop Malacandra, because as a mafioso he wouldn't run the risk of fingering a power role that may decide to counter claim.

Hmm...previewing that I'm thinking it wouldn't be wise to couter claim because it would mean proclaming "I'm the SK". *sinks into thought*

Well, I'm still going to vote Malacandra. He has pinged my radar too many times, and Arizona has also voted for him, and I find Arizona to be non-scummy at the moment.

Kat
04-22-2007, 09:50 PM
Where the hell is my analysis? *sulks in corner*

Lakai
04-22-2007, 10:39 PM
Where the hell is my analysis? *sulks in corner*

Are you the only one that wasn't analyzed? I don't think anyone did Queuing. I shudder at the thought of analyzing all 256 of his posts.

Lakai
04-22-2007, 10:59 PM
With that in mind, noting that Malacandra, nesta, and FCOD immediately supported the disastrous vig-kill plan where Pleonast, Gadarene, and Queuing were the sacrificial lambs, I believe that, my friends, was a serious mob pile on.

Vote Malacandra.

I don't get it. At one point you supported a ViG hit against Zuma while voting for Gadarene. How is that any different from what Malacandra did?

Now hocow seems to agree with your shaky reasoning. Maybe you just started your very own mob pile on?

ArizonaTeach
04-22-2007, 11:54 PM
I don't get it. At one point you supported a ViG hit against Zuma while voting for Gadarene. How is that any different from what Malacandra did?

Now hocow seems to agree with your shaky reasoning. Maybe you just started your very own mob pile on?You're kidding, right? I voted for A Vig plan, once the town decided it was going to happen and requested everyone to vote for one of two plans. I didn't even make plan suggestions, if I recall. And you think that's the same as Malacandra being the first person to support the proposal of a plan (again, not the later voting for one of the plans itself, just encouraging the plan) that guaranteed the death of a minimum of two townies?!? Remember, the plan was proposed that would automatically kill a combination of Gadarene, Pleonast, and Queuing. Two townies were guaranteed to die (assuming Queuing is a townie). Malacandra immediately said that was a great plan, and was quickly joined by two confirmed scum - nesta and FCOD. Of course they liked the plan - it was a guaranteed Mafia victory for both day and night! And you're comparing that to my town-requested official vote 500 posts later for a totally different plan?!?

Ok, it's almost intentionally twisting the facts and timeline around. That, plus the desperate attempt to make my theory sound "shaky" and bandwagonish even though hocow clearly stated he's been suspicious of Malacandra for some time and my theory wasn't a reason for his vote at all, merely that I voted for him. Lakai, that was the single most scum-worthy post I've read in 3000+ posts.

I'm reminded that the Godfather comes up town if investigated, no? Lakai, what did you come up as when investigated? And how right have our beat cops been?

Lakai
04-23-2007, 12:38 AM
You're kidding, right? I voted for A Vig plan, once the town decided it was going to happen and requested everyone to vote for one of two plans. I didn't even make plan suggestions, if I recall. And you think that's the same as Malacandra being the first person to support the proposal of a plan (again, not the later voting for one of the plans itself, just encouraging the plan) that guaranteed the death of a minimum of two townies?!? Remember, the plan was proposed that would automatically kill a combination of Gadarene, Pleonast, and Queuing. Two townies were guaranteed to die (assuming Queuing is a townie). Malacandra immediately said that was a great plan, and was quickly joined by two confirmed scum - nesta and FCOD. Of course they liked the plan - it was a guaranteed Mafia victory for both day and night! And you're comparing that to my town-requested official vote 500 posts later for a totally different plan?!?

This (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424297&postcount=1266) is the only post by Malacandra supporting the plan you are talking about. It was post 1266. Since Pleonast claimed, Zuma soon replaced him in the conditional. In post 1374 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8424951#post8424951) you vote for a Vig hit on Zuma. That is 108 posts latter, not 500 (conveniently slipped from your memory maybe?) At that time your vote (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8422599#post8422599) was still on Gadarene and it never changes.

Malacandra supported a plan where two towns die and so did you. What difference does it make when Malacandra supported the plan? The results are the same, two townsmen die.

Ok, it's almost intentionally twisting the facts and timeline around. That, plus the desperate attempt to make my theory sound "shaky" and bandwagonish even though hocow clearly stated he's been suspicious of Malacandra for some time and my theory wasn't a reason for his vote at all, merely that I voted for him. Lakai, that was the single most scum-worthy post I've read in 3000+ posts.

I'm reminded that the Godfather comes up town if investigated, no? Lakai, what did you come up as when investigated? And how right have our beat cops been?

I just found it suspicious that two people voted for Malacandra so quickly. I said that it could be a bandwagon, I can't tell you for sure.

hocow
04-23-2007, 12:46 AM
I realized my second vote looked bandwagon-ish when I posted it. But, as has been reiterated, I was suspicious of Malacandra since Day 2. I had even voted for him previously. I was just glad to see someone else's FOS pointed the same direction as mine.

BTW, I'm a she. ;)

brewha
04-23-2007, 07:41 AM
First, I'd like to propose a naming convention for all Dopers. Men must have a name that ends in a hard consonent or the masculine 'o'. Women must all have names that end in the feminine 'a'. Therefore, from here on out I will simply be Brew. I also propose the name changes of Malacandro, StarvingButStronga, and howcowa.

Queuing, I see your reasoning for voting MonkeyMensch. I would be with you on that if you can explain away my reasoning for not voting. Why would a mafia switch their votes from who they knew was not mafia to a person who they knew was mafia. I could see that happening as a smoke screen if their brother mafia was already doomed to have their neck stretched, but to change a vote that makes the top two tied? I can't see a reason a mafia would do that.

I suppose MM could be the SK, but I'm not willing to vote on a wild guess.

Kat
04-23-2007, 08:46 AM
Vote cowgirl

In addition to what Lakai said, her unvote/revote of MadTheSwine worries me, specificially the "But for now, I am not convinced enough to drive this bandwagon, so unvote MadTheSwine." and then "This is a bandwagon I would rather get behind. unvote Malacandra, vote MadTheSwine." Makes it sound like a bandwagon for MTS is okay as long as she's not the one who might get blamed for it.

Queuing
04-23-2007, 09:31 AM
Queuing, I see your reasoning for voting MonkeyMensch. I would be with you on that if you can explain away my reasoning for not voting. Why would a mafia switch their votes from who they knew was not mafia to a person who they knew was mafia. I could see that happening as a smoke screen if their brother mafia was already doomed to have their neck stretched, but to change a vote that makes the top two tied? I can't see a reason a mafia would do that.

To be honest I don't know that I have a great reason for that. Yes, MM did switch his vote onto SP. He had to switch his vote to look townie. Maybe he was confused as to who was leading? Maybe it was just a smokescreen so he (or someone defending him) could say just what you are saying. There is no way that throughout this game scum have not voted for scum. It has to happen at some point. While that point worries me, from what else I see seems to point to scum, to me at least. I believe MM to be scum do to a totality of evidence, and will not be swayed by one point. Particularly since the bandwagon had formed on SP, and it seemed somewhat inevitable that we were going to get enough votes to lynch him.

Queuing
04-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Here are the posts of posting history, as well as analysis if they came in a different post and defenses if applicable

My first recap post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485901&postcount=3044)

brewha's analysis of Lakai (sort of, due to coding issues, used the post he quoted BM) (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485258&postcount=3038)

Monkey Mensch's rebuttal (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490584&postcount=3098) and my rebuttal of his rebuttal (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8494558&postcount=3112)

Lakai's post about cowgirl/smitty/cowgirl (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8488362&postcount=3076) and his analysis of (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490420&postcount=3096)

Fretful on ArizonaTeach (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8489750&postcount=3086) and ArizonaTeach's answer (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490018&postcount=3088)

StarvingButStrong on Brewha (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490204&postcount=3092) and analysis of (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490957&postcount=3101)

ArizonaTeach on StarvingButStrong (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490347&postcount=3094) and StarvingButStrong answers (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490504&postcount=3097)

Kat on Fretful Porpentine (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8493103&postcount=3104) and the verdict is (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8494224&postcount=3110)

Queuing on Pygmy Rugger (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8494529&postcount=3111)

People who asked for an assignment but have not yet submitted:

Cowgirl who was suppose to do Kat (allergies aside)

Aguecheek who was suppose to do Rysto.

Fretful Porpentine
04-23-2007, 10:31 AM
(3) Apparent retaliatory "suspicion" towards MadTheSwine. Revenge votes are bad, they screw up later analysis. At least she didn't actually vote for him, though.
For what it's worth, that was actual suspicion, because his arguments against me didn't make any sense, and he seemed really desperate to throw accusations in an apparently random direction. I didn't vote for him because after looking at this other posts, I didn't see anything that looked especially suspicious to me.

ArizonaTeach
04-23-2007, 10:58 AM
This (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424297&postcount=1266) is the only post by Malacandra supporting the plan you are talking about. It was post 1266. Since Pleonast claimed, Zuma soon replaced him in the conditional. In post 1374 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8424951#post8424951) you vote for a Vig hit on Zuma. That is 108 posts latter, not 500 (conveniently slipped from your memory maybe?) At that time your vote (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8422599#post8422599) was still on Gadarene and it never changes. Actually, I was talking about my post in the 1500's, but that still isn't 500 posts, so I don't know where that number I mentioned came from, to be honest.

And you're still (intentionally?) misunderstanding -- the 2nd and 3rd people to go along with the plan were scum. Is it any stretch to think that the 1st person was, too? I'm not talking about who ended up voting for the plan, I'm talking about the first few people who said the plan was a good idea in the first place! Why are you defending Malacandra so hard?

Malacandra supported a plan where two towns die and so did you. What difference does it make when Malacandra supported the plan? The results are the same, two townsmen die. Everybody supported the plan. Well, almost everybody; I really don't have the time to look back. My issue was with the way the bandwagoning began, and the posting pattern of scum latching on to StarvingButStrong's proposals and votes.

NAF1138
04-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Votes are all over the place, its still anybodys lynch.

2- Malacandra - (ArizonaTeach, hocow)
1- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench)
1- brewha - (lakai)
1- cowgirl - (kat)
1- Lakai - (brewha)
1- MonkeyMensch - (Queuing)
1- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller)


24 hours 15 minutes left before nightfall folks. Time to start making up your mind.

And, as a reminder, a no lynch vote is always a possibility. It hasn't been discussed since the game started, but it is possible.

brewha
04-23-2007, 11:10 AM
Does anyone have the time to do Queuing? I've been asking myself why he is so trustworthy. I know the town was pretty hell bent on lynching him back on day two, but for some reason (which I can't recall) he has gone from least trusted to more-or-less trusted.

I'm beginning to not trust Queuing - for two reasons. First there's his dogged pursuit of Monkeymensch. I don't know for sure if Monkey is a town or mafia, but there is at least one event that makes him more likely to be town than mafia.

Then, there's my case against Lakai. OK, I could be wrong about him, but I'm quite certain he's scum. Queuing didn't even entertain my accusation. He just brushed it off and went on to make a different case.

Anyone else have an opinion about Lakai? Anyone want to wade through Queuing's posts? I'm gonna go back to the day two mess and see if I can find what detracted from the mistrust toward Queuing.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 11:21 AM
Are you the only one that wasn't analyzed? I don't think anyone did Queuing. I shudder at the thought of analyzing all 256 of his posts.Aguecheek who was suppose to do Rysto.Sorry, I didn't see the assignment on Friday evening when I had time, so I bit the bullet and did Queuing instead. It's all coded and bolded, but probably contains a lot of my shorthand notes, 'cause it was frigging long, and I am loath to go over it again...

And I just tried posting it and it seems I screwed up the coding. Give me a bit.

brewha
04-23-2007, 11:23 AM
Looking forward to your Queuing report. I went back over the day two voting. I still don't have a good read on Queuing, but it is leaning less scummy than it was before.

brewha
04-23-2007, 11:54 AM
* He cast his first vote for Autolycus saying he saw no reason to delay the lynch, though there had been many posts pointing out that the longer the town takes to discuss during a day, the more info they gain. He later unvotes Autolycus, which could have been to avoid the perception of scumminess.



I did want to adress this issue, but couldn't at the time of my unvote. After I was certain that Autolycus was the Godfather (yes, I now realize that I was very wrong), I didn't see a reason to delay the lynching.

After thinking about it for awhile, I realized that there was a very good reason to delay his death. If he were the GF, mafia would be popping up out of the woodwork to defend him. Since, I could see no way to defend his remarks, those that were actually defending him were likely mafia. I couldn't come out and say that that is why I unvoted him, because the mafia would clam up about it. Of course, this would have only worked had Auto actually been the GF...

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 12:16 PM
Nothing posts: 21, 60, 87, 145, 223, 229, 435, 444, 446, 453, 455, 474, 486, 516, 549, 563, 582, 973, 982, 1004, 1034, 1072, 1081, 1110, 1112, 1129, 1239, 1241, 1245, 1258, 1302, 1318, 1367, 1409, 1493, 1496, 1608, 1614, 1616, 1626, 1640, 1642, 1646, 1651, 1683, 1758, 1763, 1770, 1799, 1876, 1881, 2008, 2110, 2112, 2120, 2160, 2181, 2208, 2249, 2274, 2297, 2302, 2308, 2312, 2323, 2342, 2344, 2352, 2403, 2414, 2425, 2480, 2413, 2523, 2560, 2637, 2642, 2648, 2652, 2877, 2928, 2944, 2961, 2964, 2997, 3026, 3054

Post 155 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8401818&postcount=155) – Rules recap
Post 237 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405293&postcount=237) – Discusses 1st night dead, notes that all three played the previous game
Post 253 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405449&postcount=253) – Agrees w/ Fretful Porpentine that it makes sense to go for those who played in the last game.
Post 262 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405582&postcount=262) – Responds to MadTheSwine discussing possible grudges vs. returning players, asks if it was random or revenge. “Can’t be coincidence…” If revenge, should we lynch a returning player?
Post 268 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405659&postcount=268) – Asks if people should post their experience. Claims he read 1st thread everyday, suspected Suburban Plankton of being mason, agreed that sturmhauke was seer in the forbidden thread
Post 304 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8405976&postcount=304) - Responds to Rysto (pres #300), that Mafia could determine false cops quickly, since they know who’s scum and who’s town, therefore finding real cops. Rysto was replying to CaerieDD, re: chrisk’s suggestion, re: “cop results.” Agrees w/ Rysto, suggests striking chrisk and ET from those to be killed now. Not because he believes chrisk (he doesn’t), but because the latter should always give his info. “We wait until he sees a bad guy…kill that bad guy..If right, maybe he’s a cop. If not, then he’s dead. I know there is only a 50% chance he is right…” Suggests acting on what info we have, regardless of the truth. Votes sturmhauke, because “he played the best…from the last time, and did not get killed.”
Post 310 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406033&postcount=310) – respond to Rysto, who didn’t think we should kill sturmhauke, rather we should keep him. Finds it suspicious that he was not killed, while others who didn’t play as well were. Asks how killing good players is good for the town. Mafia and SK need to play well to win also.
Post 327 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8406283&postcount=327) – doesn’t trust sturmhauke, Gadarene, pimaspinner, Trusts Pleonast, ChrisK.
Post 367 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8407265&postcount=367) – agrees that dnooman was the mafia kill due to spreadsheet and skill at guessing roles. Analyzes OAOW complaining about night posts and rebutting chrisk, re: night posts. Still trusts chrisk. Nothing on Captain Carrot. Suggests OAOW was killed by SK, carrot by the Vig. Wants to hear from Autolycus. States that he’s got a couple of distrusts and one vote due to his prolific posting. Claims he won’t stop. Trying to see the experience of playesr and catch them in a lie. “If you lie once, you should die.” Confirms sturmhauke vote.
Post 368 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8407272&postcount=368) – adds to chrisK posting cop results that got cut off.
Post 437 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408430&postcount=437) – defends posting as requested by Lakai, zuma, who voted for him. Re: asking for experience – trying to find out if people would lie about it. Re: 304/367 – re: voting for sturmhauke. Admits the reasons aren’t good, but claims that no one had good reasons. Vote was based on who’d been killed, not what’d been said. Defends self against Pleonastfor trust of ET and ChrisK. Confirms distrusts – sturmhauke, already stated, Gadarene for night posting and not saying much…no longer true. Reasoning same for pimaspinner.
Post 442 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408484&postcount=442) – vote count, but notes can’t find where Winston Smith voted for him.
Post 464 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408747&postcount=464) – defends v. Pleonast, who claimed he was squirming, re: chrisk. Pleonastdoesn’t trust him. Appeals to BlasterMaster and storyteller’s expressing the same sentiment.
Post 471 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408793&postcount=471) – defends v. zuma, re: fishing for lies by asking for experience. Claims zuma is accusing him baselessly. Stated that he’d claimed that it might or “might not” have been a good idea (he did). States that not everyone is good at deception…”who knows what will find out by asking for more information?”
Post 507 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8409287&postcount=507) – agrees to a countdown after a vote (several others, pro-countdown in nothings)
Post 581 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8413965&postcount=581) – re: only two kills, wonders who didn’t get one. (CaerieD later confirmed by BlasterMaster). Analyses CaerieD’s posts, mistrusting BlasterMaster, and the “Menocchio crumb.” Notes she voted for sturmhauke. Notes BlasterMaster suggested SK kill CaerieD. Pushes to lynch either sturmhauke or BlasterMaster. Due to lack of time later on, votes BlasterMaster.
Post 599 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414282&postcount=599) – lists all trust lists. Figures it’s ‘cause he didn’t want to lynch ET, fishing for experience, and being too defensive. Joke about talking too much. Claims this will be the last time defending him self. Props to Rysto for his analysis and vote for chrisk, won’t change vote, though.
Post 679 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415358&postcount=679) – responds to BlasterMaster’s post on strategy and CaerieDD’s suspects. Notes that BlasterMaster did not post the fact that BlasterMaster was on her distrust list. Concludes that BlasterMaster is “scum and must die.”
Post 687 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8415390&postcount=687) – Calls out all lurkers to post, including nesta and brewha, Suggests leaving chrisk alone, due to doubts. Firm FOS on BlasterMaster and Pleonast.
Post 968 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420365&postcount=968) – reconfirms FOS of BlasterMaster, states that he thinks he was CaerieD’s breadcrumb. Will gain more info by lynching BlasterMaster. Discusses reasons for not thinking Menocchio was breadcrumb, but won’t for him. Reconfirms “lynch all liars.” Claims to have jumped no bandwagons. States reasons for mistrust of sturmhauke again. FOS BlasterMaster again and Pleonast. Agrees w/ Lakai, re: lynching Pleonast or BlasterMaster for best info. Defends chrisk again. States known facts several known facts, re: previous posters. Concludes that it’s best to lynch BlasterMaster. Vote count. Claims Citizen. Makes it on to several trust lists as a result.
Post 980 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420472&postcount=980) – responds to zuma, re: BlasterMaster as breadcrumb, people posting experience. Proposes to believe all role claims and all crumbs until proven.
Post 987 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420597&postcount=987) – responds to zuma, re: Q’s thinking is hilarious, asks him to tell how he thinks it is rather than just cutting and pasting.
Post 991 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420627&postcount=991) – getting pissy w/ zuma. Asks for proof that he’s discounting the “obvious” breadcrumb, claims he never has. Doesn’t think zuma is scum, pushes for BlasterMaster again. Claims not to be on a bandwagon.
Post 992 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8420633&postcount=992) – wants an answer from zuma.
Post 1018 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421080&postcount=1018) – responds to nesta stating that CaerieDD’s suspicion of BlasterMaster is reactionary. States that prior to CaerieDD, BlasterMaster was generally trusted.
Post 1024 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421168&postcount=1024) – Doesn’t think the day should end yet. Wants a defense from BlasterMaster. States that everyone in danger should defend themselves. Vote list.
Post 1033 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421225&postcount=1033) – States that he never accused BlasterMaster of being gung-ho. He himself is very active player. “number of posts do not indicate anything.” Voting for him for the breadcrumb and that he lied (lynch all liars). Reclaims citizen.
Post 1044 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421413&postcount=1044) – responds to BlasterMaster who claimed to have defended lying, re: trust lists. He lied, lynch all liars. BlasterMaster’s defending his math posts, states that beat cops are useful, not 100%, but better than his 1/31 chance. “If I know someone is a beat cop, and they say X is scum…I am going to vote with them.” Pooh-poohs BlasterMaster’s math posts. Claims great analysis was done by Rysto. Reconfirms voting with CaerieD’s post. Thinks both he and BlasterMaster will die soon.
Post 1049 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421517&postcount=1049) – responds to glee, thinks that once you get 6 votes, consider defending yourself. Looking forward to JSexton. Vote count.
Post 1051 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421535&postcount=1051) – responds to Pleonast asking him to link to where BlasterMaster lied. States that BlasterMaster admitted that he lied on his mistrust list, who and why he put them there. Doesn’t link. (BlasterMaster responds in 1053)
Post 1056 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421622&postcount=1056) – posts other people’s statements, re: BlasterMaster.
Post 1058 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8421646&postcount=1058) – States he and BlasterMaster are going in circles, everything that’s been said has been said, no new info, reclaims citizen.
Post 1077 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422242&postcount=1077) – responds to JSexton’s analysis of him as scum. Defends fishing for players, analysis by timestamp, chrisK as cop – “All claims should be believed.”, the crumb silliness.
Post 1087 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422457&postcount=1087) – responds to BlasterMaster’s Vig claim, states that he thinks BlasterMaster is the SK (1st time saying this, after JSexton did). Doesn’t believe the claim. Still votes BlasterMaster. Likes Rysto’s direction of Vig killing, suggests Pleonast, Gadarene, himself.
Post 1088 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422461&postcount=1088) – wonders if a win condition is met and he’s the SK BlasterMaster wins. What then?
Post 1094 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422538&postcount=1094) – wants to hear storyteller.
Post 1098 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422584&postcount=1098) – “if the SK lives, he wins.” Doesn’t care who the Vig is. One of 4 people should be dead by day’s end: BlasterMaster, Pleonast, Gadarene, himself. Unvotes BlasterMaster, still believes he’s SK, but willing to direct kill, votes Pleonast. FOS zuma, suggests gadarene vig kill.
Post 1104 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422619&postcount=1104) – asks brewha for SK suggestion and whether Miller should block SK.
Post 1107 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422647&postcount=1107) – Tells Autolycus his vote is useless, pick someone else.
Post 1118 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422860&postcount=1118) – 4-5 people on different sides: BlasterMaster, Pleonast, zuma vs. Gadarene, himself. Gadarene’s death could give some info, though. Rather have Pleonast or zuma die. FOS BlasterMaster, Pleonast, zuma, storyteller, sturmhauke, hocow, Autolycus. storyteller for being on Pleonast/BlasterMaster trust, sturmhauke, hocow for not posting and random, Autolycus for his posts.
Post 1122 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8422871&postcount=1122) – responds to Pygmy asking BlasterMaster who the Doc is. Says he doesn’t since he killed CaerieD. SK or mafia might know doc, but not BlasterMaster.
Post 1194 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8423702&postcount=1194) – responds to JSexton responding to his defense. States it’s not hard to look up info. States he never said he believed chrisk to be a cop. States no one knows the breadcrumb, he believes it’s BlasterMaster.
Post 1203 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8423773&postcount=1203) – swan song, asks town to direct BlasterMaster kill Pleonast or zuma. If everyone’s town, look to Rysto’s posts and lynch JSexton.
Post 1225 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424047&postcount=1225) – responds to zuma, re: zuma’s choices of who to kill, BlasterMaster does not choose his kill.
Post 1231 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424085&postcount=1231) – Responds to zuma on who BlasterMaster should kill. FOS and vote now zuma.
Post 1234 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424111&postcount=1234) – Doesn’t want zuma to have BlasterMaster vote on his kill. Urges Gadarene to vote himself, and pimaspinner. Wants BlasterMaster to kill zuma.
Post 1256 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424261&postcount=1256) – Again with the BlasterMaster doesn’t get a vote. Wants lynches of (in order) zuma, Pleonast, BlasterMaster, storyteller, Malacandra, sturmhauke, JSexton, hocow, Autolycus. States most people have defended. Pleonast has claimed Mason, does not believe him either. Claims town.
Post 1275 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424352&postcount=1275)1275 – in case of a tie and therefore BlasterMaster gets to pick kill, unvotes zuma, votes Pleonast, wants zuma assassinated.
Post 1282 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424389&postcount=1282) – plays martyr (the game will go on!), restates not believing BlasterMaster, assassinate zuma. If scum, go after Pleonast (who he doesn’t believe either) and vig kill JSexton. Claims vanilla citizen.
Post 1289 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424442&postcount=1289) – Wants everyone to vote for his side or JSexton/zuma’s and allow BlasterMaster a choice. Vig gadarene if Q scum, vig zuma if Q town.
Post 1297 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424493&postcount=1297) – reiterates above to zuma.
Post 1300 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424524&postcount=1300) – reiterates above to JSexton
Post 1307 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424604&postcount=1307) – calls the “other side” juvenile and dumb. States they fake role claims, allow a tool a vote and “crap posts.”
Post 1310 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424650&postcount=1310) – asks zuma why he’s waiting for BlasterMaster’s input. Calls him scum.
Post 1322 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424791&postcount=1322) – vig plan again.
Post 1336 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424855&postcount=1336) – to zuma – the plan again.
Post 1344 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424941&postcount=1344) – states he was just playing around, being mean to zuma. Doesn’t want a whole bunch of nothing posts (!) for mafia to hide behind. After yesterday.
Post 1346 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8424950&postcount=1346) – to JSexton, doesn’t want a mason to out themselves confirming Pleonast.
Post 1355 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425028&postcount=1355) – martyrs “please don’t unlynch me…I’m still dead.” Unless…go for zuma (joking).
Post 1369 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425115&postcount=1369) – Asks to die. zuma claims mason after.
Post 1404 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425282&postcount=1404) – doesn’t believe zuma (after Pleonast confirms). Maybe real masons just haven’t posted yet. This is either a scum conspiracy (revealed after his death and zuma’s assassination). More roles to kill from scum. Or town’s a big clusterfuck and mafia’s laughing their asses off. Lists sturmhauke, Fretful Porpentine, StarvingButStrong, smitty, hocow, kivvik, Aguecheek, ArizonaTeach as low posters. If second scenario, go for them.
Post 1414 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425316&postcount=1414) – Agrees w/ BlasterMaster that BlasterMaster kills who we say or we kill him. Should get 2 kills/day w/ vig, 1 from mafia, 1 from SK. Best interest for everyone to get the SK.
Post 1416 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425328&postcount=1416) – martyrs. Kill him, kill zuma. If zuma didn’t lie, go for low posters.
Post 1423 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425360&postcount=1423) – states Pleonast had no reason to claim w/ 6 votes (that was okay earlier).
Post 1429 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425383&postcount=1429) – asks BlasterMaster why he thinks hocow is the SK. Can wait to tomorrow if he thinks it’s a scum trick. “Believing…who the SK is is helpful to all.”

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 12:21 PM
Post 1455 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425538&postcount=1455) – responds to glee, stating that there’s a good chance the real masons haven’t read the thread yet. Re: votes for Gadarene, if town, kill zuma, if scum, kill him. Claims citizen, distrust of BlasterMaster is fading, but doesn’t necessarily believe role claims. Asks for no more role claims.
Post 1459 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425632&postcount=1459) – asks how best to accept a mason role claim. States have been believing all role claims no matter how stupid. Asks masons to direct BlasterMaster to Aguecheek (1st FOS) or JSexton. Can explain (never does).
Post 1463 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425656&postcount=1463) – accepts JSexton’s clarification, re: no more confirming needed of masons.
Post 1474 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8425718&postcount=1474) – stands by analysis of town v. town or huge mafia plot. Thinks it’s town v. town. New scum list – sturmhauke, Fretful Porpentine, StarvingButStrong, Smitty, hocow, kivvik, Aguecheek, ArizonaTeach. Votes Aguecheek.
Post 1521 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8426272&postcount=1521) – responds to JSexton saying he was scummy, now seems town. States JSexton had everything completely wrong. States he was wrong re: BlasterMaster, zuma, Pleonast. Pushes to vote on things known, not things guessed. Restates scum list, no changes. Doesn’t think any main players are scum Votes vig kill of Aguecheek if Gadarene town, himelf if Gadarene scum.
Post 1540 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8426934&postcount=1540) – mostly nothing, agrees w/ Autolycus that Autolycus’s list needs to post more.
Post 1682 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8430888&postcount=1682) – (Winston Smith, nesta are dead) states Q, BlasterMaster, zuma, Pleonast need to shut up. They were all wrong. Lists low posters, lists day one votes. Those who voted ET, 5 are confirmed town (“assuming we believe all role claims, as this has been my strategy since the beginning, it isn’t changing now). Lists day 2 votes (omits Aguecheek vote for him). Comes up w/ some correlation for FCOD, ArizonaTeach, storyteller. Wonders about non voters from day 1 (lists them). Wonders re: brewha voting for BlasterMaster, Q, Gadarene…kept jumping on bandwagons. FOS MonkeyMensch for “acting in concert w/ nesta,” no voting and bandwaggoning. Not casting a vote yet. Wants confirmed townies to vote 1st. Suggests 28 townies left. Scum: brewha, Monkeymensch, Aguecheek, FCOD. Calls on low posters to speak up. Aguecheek responds that he missed A’s vote for Q and that he’d already defended his one major action (sturmhauke vote), for the exact same reasons as Q.
Post 1688 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8431060&postcount=1688) – responds to brewha defense, which was that Gadarene/Q on opposite sides. States he and Gadarene were on the same side. Aguecheek later points out that Q skipped over 2 spots that could reflect badly on him.
Post 1734 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8432304&postcount=1734) – apologizes for getting post counts wrong (small post), doesn’t respond to Aguecheek or sturmhauke directly.
Post 1795 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435070&postcount=1795) – lists post counts, agrees lynch all lurker isn’t good, but Smitty, Fretful Porpentine and sturmhauke still don’t post much. Helpful in the last game doesn’t help. Asks Kat about conclusions from here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8431127&postcount=1693). Asks Fern Forest about math and usernames.
Post 1866 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8437122&postcount=1866) – asks storyteller whether the FCOD vote still stands or going for pimaspinner?
Post 1870 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8437373&postcount=1870) – responds to Suburban Plankton about BlasterMaster picking his kills. Doesn’t think BlasterMaster is mafia. Thinks Suburban Plankton discussing it is suspicious, felt it was a done deal. Don’t worry about vig kill yet.
Post 1899 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8438596&postcount=1899) – responds to Fern Forest asking miller to block hocow. If hocow is SK, he/she can just choose not to kill. No way to know who SK is until someone kills them. If the SK has not been killed by the time odds are evened, then lynch BlasterMaster to eliminate possibility of him being SK and the killing of extra people. Concetrate on scum…forget the SK right now.
Post 1904 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8438652&postcount=1904) – appeal to Fern Forest. Please forget SK and concentrate on mafia.
Post 1929 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8439858&postcount=1929) – tells MadTheSwine not to worry about the SK. Should not be killed tonight. Only kill mafia. Getting snippy.
Post 1943 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8440395&postcount=1943) – clarifies that we should kill the SK, just not tonight. Emphasizes that SK has to kill 27 people, and that we shouldn’t worry about it. Refuses to say anything more on it.
Post 1951 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8441053&postcount=1951) – refuses to discuss SK having to kill less than 27 people with Aguecheek.
Post 1952 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8441064&postcount=1952) – Day 1, 2, and 3 vote lists.
Post 1963 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8442068&postcount=1963) – thinks that JSexton and pimaspinner are scum, as well as FCOD. FOS Aguecheek, MadTheSwine and MonkeyMensch. Votes pimaspinner, vig kill FCOD.
Post 2006 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8443290&postcount=2006) – accepts pimaspinner’s claim, unvotes pimaspinner, votes FCOD, vig kill Suburban Plankton
Post 2107 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444640&postcount=2107) – unvote FCOD after miller claim, vig kill FCOD. Doesn’t think cops should investigate twice. 50/50 is good enough. Votes Fern Forest.
Post 2118 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444784&postcount=2118) – unvotes Fern Forest, votes JSexton, per zuma’s request (‘cause he’s voting with the masons).
Post 2129 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8444952&postcount=2129) – tells pimaspinner to state who she’s investigating. Bad idea for GA to protect because it’s only a one shot deal.
Post 2140 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445113&postcount=2140) – responds to BlasterMaster’s posting about mafia leaving him alone (re: no Dr for him), ‘cuz he might be useful to go after the SK. Doesn’t think BlasterMaster’s that valuable. Cops are more so. Doc should protect cop.
Post 2158 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445678&postcount=2158) – unvotes JSexton due to Doc claim. Lists confirmed town. Asks whether other cop should claim, GA should protect them, JSexton protects himself.
Post 2173 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445868&postcount=2173) – doesn’t want to lynch Fern Forest. Wants MonkeyMensch or Suburban Plankton instead, lists reasons, votes Suburban Plankton. Suggests BlasterMaster not test FCOD’s claim, but have millers go for scum (listed as MonkeyMensch, Fern Forest, sturmhauke, Aguecheek).
Post 2177 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8445934&postcount=2177) – ditches role claim idea. Believes JSexton, want him to protect pimaspinner, but random may be better. Thinks we’re screwed if the cop’s lost.
Post 2187 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446029&postcount=2187) – suggests leaving Suburban Plankton as the vote for now.
Post 2191 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446131&postcount=2191) – agrees w/ BlasterMaster’s plan, re: JSexton.
Post 2195 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446173&postcount=2195) – states doctor is not as important as a cop.
Post 2198 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446211&postcount=2198) – states we may have a GA who can target the 2 cops. Doesn’t belive JSexton over pimaspinner.
Post 2201 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8446243&postcount=2201) – no use investigating JSexton. pimaspinner is more important. (Suburban Plankton hung)
Post 2357 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453414&postcount=2357) – searched all Suburban Plankton’s and kivvik’s posts. (kivvik, FCOD, zuma dead)
Post 2360 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453466&postcount=2360) – no doubts re: pimaspinner and BlasterMaster. Waits for Fern Forest result for pimaspinner. Don’t go after JSexton.
Post 2370 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453793&postcount=2370) – lists kivvik posts, thinks it clears Fretful Porpentine and Autolycus.
Post 2376 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453942&postcount=2376) – votes Fern Forest per pimaspinner’s investigation of SK. Other cop investigate someone else. 50/50 is fine by him.
Post 2382 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8453980&postcount=2382) – unvotes Fern Forest, votes Autolycus, vig kill Fern Forest.
Post 2393 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454045&postcount=2393) – wonders why the SK left pimaspinner alive. States if he was SK, would’ve taken the risk.
Post 2400 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454117&postcount=2400) – agrees that it’s weird Fern Forest talked a lot about the SK, and didn’t try to kill pimaspinner. Lynch Autolycus, vig Fern Forest. “We need to get the SK.”
Post 2424 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454353&postcount=2424) – doesn’t want masons to come out. States that if Pleonast dies, and a mason is targeted and claims, he will belive it absent a counter claim.
Post 2442 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454697&postcount=2442) – lists Suburban Planktons posts. States that it leads him to believe that Autolycus is the GF, glee, sturmhauke, Aguecheek needs to be investigated. And him.
Post 2443 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454739&postcount=2443) – responds to cowgirl, weird that Lakai defended Autolycus. Wonders if the mafia plan was for Autolycus to roleplay.
Post 2469 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8455709&postcount=2469) – agrees w/ BlasterMaster, re: Aguecheek, Lakai as scum, can’t remember reasoning for Pygmy Rugger. No feeling for glee.
Post 2470 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8455736&postcount=2470) – responds to cowgirl, re: FCOD “blocking” Malacandra. Thinks it’s in Mal’s favour.
Post 2479 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456086&postcount=2479) – wonders who pimaspinner should investigate. Wants to lynch Autolycus now. Investigation list – glee, Lakai, Aguecheek, sturmhauke, Pygmy Rugger.
Post 2486 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456172&postcount=2486) – thinks Autolycus’s hint, re: MadTheSwine is a hint to Autolycus being a cop.
Post 2490 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8456310&postcount=2490) – FCOD post analysis, believes JSexton’s claim, wonders about FCOD trust lists. Wonders why glee gets all the attention. Wonders why Aguecheek is on the distrust list.
Post 2512 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457208&postcount=2512) – responds to Lakai responding to his suspicions – wonders why the anger. Distrusts him defending Autolycus and mentioning glee.
Post 2547 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457954&postcount=2547) – thinks pimaspinner investigation list of Lakai, pygmy rugger, Aguecheek is good.
Post 2555 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458099&postcount=2555) – responds to Fern Forest, who he’s willing to lynch due to 50/50 odds of a correct read by pimaspinner. Asks who BlasterMaster should target if Autolycus is the SK and not Godfather, realizes in 2560 that if Autolycus is SK, BlasterMaster won’t need to target anyone. Wonders why we should wait for JSexton’s views. Until his claim is verified by death, doesn’t trust him. Want to let pimaspinner investigate who she wants. Should tell us so the other cop can investigate someone else.
Post 2587 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458718&postcount=2587) – responds to JSexton wondering why he was cleared. States that he isn’t, along with JSexton and Rysto. But there are better targets right now.
Post 2597 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8458956&postcount=2597) – wants Autolycus’s defense
Post 2719 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8466360&postcount=2719) – (Fern Forest, BlasterMaster, JSexton dead) Didn’t think we did anything wrong, cop said Fern Forest was the beat cop, doesn’t want to worry about math, it’s 50/50. SK is now a danger to both factions. No one to vote for.
Post 2739 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8470574&postcount=2739) – doesn’t want to argue about math. Boils down to 50/50.
Post 2763 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474292&postcount=2763) – votes Malacandra for posting about math. 50/50 is the way to go. Thinks he has been seen as town “due to my posts.”
Post 2768 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474588&postcount=2768) – dismisses Malacandra’s math posts. Wants a reason for a vote for him.
Post 2771 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474654&postcount=2771) – dismiss math.
Post 2773 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474676&postcount=2773)2773 – dismiss math.
Post 2789 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474982&postcount=2789) – suggests pimaspinner not investigate Lakai, wants someone new. Will vote for pimaspinner – 50/50 is good.
Post 2797 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475328&postcount=2797) – dismiss math.
Post 2800 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475346&postcount=2800) – dismiss math.
Post 2804 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475394&postcount=2804) – dismiss math, accepts 50/50.
Post 2805 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475403&postcount=2805) – responds to Lakai, dismissing math.
Post 2810 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475442&postcount=2810) – dismisses math, promises Malacandra analysis.
Post 2821 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475805&postcount=2821) – Malacandra analysis, claims there’s not much there, only math.
Post 2822 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475823&postcount=2822) – responds to why he got defensive – called a moron, never answered accusations. If that’s good enough to lynch him, go ahead.
Post 2827 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8475999&postcount=2827) – analyzes Malacandra posts, suspicious ‘cause there’s nothing there. Only asking for some people to out themselves and math. Isn’t sure if he’s scum, to be honest, though.
Post 2848 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477391&postcount=2848) – notices he still has lots of votes, hopes it’s because of his talking, not because of Aguecheek’s FOS as SK. “Ballsy to hide so much in the open,” but he’s not that smart, nor is he the SK. Malacandra hasn’t posted much. He’s looked at hocow, will post analysis, suggests everyone do so.
Post 2850 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477533&postcount=2850)2850 - hocow analysis. Concludes townie.
Post 2851 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8477570&postcount=2851) – notes Malacandra never voted for 12 hour countdown.
Post 2874 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478446&postcount=2874) – responds to Aguecheek role claim. Promises to post Aguecheek post analysis.
Post 2882 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478613&postcount=2882) – states Aguecheek analysis supports claim.
Post 2884 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478718&postcount=2884) – Aguecheek analysis. All seems to fit claim Doesn’t want to risk lynch. Wonders why never investigated MonkeyMensch.
Post 2886 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8478768&postcount=2886) – suggest believe role claims, everyone vote for Malacandra, him. Or vote for MonkeyMensch.
Post 2909 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479147&postcount=2909) – MonkeyMensch analysis. Claims a lot of nothing posts. Constant FOS of brewha. Read the thread a lot, no analysis. FOS scum Investigation list: glee, brewha, MonkeyMensch, pygmy, Malacandra.
Post 2913 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479209&postcount=2913) – respond to cowgirl, re: posting anaylsis of those who’ve been nightkilled.
Post 2917 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479294&postcount=2917) – concludes MadTheSwine will die. Investigate list: (no change)…oh, and him, ‘cause he talks a lot.
Post 2919 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479325&postcount=2919) – asks Fretful Porpentine if he’s got brewha’s voting pattern.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 12:24 PM
Post 2927 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479568&postcount=2927) – unvotes Malacandra, votes MonkeyMensch.
Post 2940 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8479728&postcount=2940) – likes Aguecheek reporting first, don’t know why he should investigate him, but whatever.
Post 2985 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483549&postcount=2985) – (pimaspinner, glee dead), wants to hear from sturmhauke and Aguecheek to report findings.
Post 2992 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483768&postcount=2992) – warns vs. cowgirl posts (pre v. post). Promises Fretful Porpentine analysis. glee was taken out by the SK to cast suspicion his way. glee on top of his investigation list.
Post 3001 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484084&postcount=3001) – per brewha/sturmhaukehauke, will look at storyteller and StarvingButStrong.
Post 3009 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484222&postcount=3009) – do storyteller first ‘cause StarvingButStrong isn’t pinging scumdar. Doesn’t trust Aguecheek. Wonders why Aguecheek investigated him. Dismisses Aguecheek investigation.
Post 3018 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484636&postcount=3018) – agrees cop is good mafia cover. If he lives 2 more nights, should lynch him. Asks brewha why MonkeyMensch isn’t scum. Opinions on Malacandra? (never responds to Aguecheek response on 3019)
Post 3021 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484837&postcount=3021) – prelim storyteller analysis. Really likes it. Concludes town. Votes pygmy rugger. Scum list – Pygmy Rugger, MonkeyMensch, Malacandra, brewha. Promises MonkeyMensch analysis.
Post 3024 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484994&postcount=3024) – storyteller analysis.
Post 3025 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485007&postcount=3025) – voting for Pygmy Rugger ‘cause storyteller did.
Post 3029 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485103&postcount=3029) – responds to brewha, thinks it’s good to analyze everone.
Post 3043 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485796&postcount=3043) – thinks Rysto is trusted because of spreadsheet and good advice. Kudos to brewha.
Post 3044 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8485901&postcount=3044) – analysis posts.
Post 3049 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486039&postcount=3049) – dismisses brewha impression of MonkeyMensch, posts why. Stronger FOS of MonkeyMensch. suggests other analyses of people, tries to assign them. Promises Pygmy Rugger analysis.
Post 3050 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486041&postcount=3050) – repeat.
Post 3057 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486072&postcount=3057) – assigns analyses.
Post 3064 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8486165&postcount=3064) – assigns analyses.

And that's what I've got. There are some editorials of mine in there, thoughts that poked up while I was reading. Some I erased when the questions were cleared up, some stayed in because the question was still there, some stayed in because I forgot about them and wasn't going to go back and look for them. There were no more posts by the time I finished, and I wasn't going to refresh looking for more, either.

Pleonast
04-23-2007, 01:06 PM
Thanks for all the heavy lifting, everyone. If only I could decide who to vote for. It's too soon for me to vote anyway (remembering what happened last Day).

List of Suspicion on those who haven't voted yet:
Aguecheek
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
Malacandra
Menocchio
Pygmy Rugger
Rysto
StarvingButStrong

Get your votes in, lest ye be scum!

NAF1138
04-23-2007, 01:14 PM
Thanks for all the heavy lifting, everyone. If only I could decide who to vote for. It's too soon for me to vote anyway (remembering what happened last Day).

List of Suspicion on those who haven't voted yet:
Aguecheek
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
Malacandra
Menocchio
Pygmy Rugger
Rysto
StarvingButStrong

Get your votes in, lest ye be scum!

Bolding mine:

Just a reminder. Rysto will be out of the game until Wednesday. (Not that you didn't know that Pleonast, just that seeing Rysto's name on your list reminded me to remind you guys.)

Santo Rugger
04-23-2007, 01:16 PM
Thanks for all the heavy lifting, everyone. If only I could decide who to vote for. It's too soon for me to vote anyway (remembering what happened last Day).

List of Suspicion on those who haven't voted yet:
Aguecheek
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
Malacandra
Menocchio
Pygmy Rugger
Rysto
StarvingButStrong

Get your votes in, lest ye be scum!

Hey, you're not on that list! ;) I thought I voted yesterday, my bad.

I'm going to vote cowgirl, for reasons i've expressed previously.

storyteller0910
04-23-2007, 01:44 PM
Writing quickly to say sorry for my nonparticipation over the last few days. New Jersey Comcast sucks, and I experienced all kinds of cable and Internet interruptions over the weekend. Fortunately, I am now back at work, with a reliable connection and a bit of free time this afternoon. I'm'a gonna' do a bit of catch up reading and be back with further thoughts later.

But on first glance: wow. That's a lot of very impressive work by everyone. This may take a while.

Pleonast
04-23-2007, 01:45 PM
Oops, I forgot about Rysto. I'll still shame him for not voting, but don't think anyone should vote for him.

Confirmed Townies are not on the list (me and sturmhauke). Menocchio is probably excused as well, but isn't absolutely confirmed.

Fretful Porpentine
04-23-2007, 01:47 PM
Ditto -- I'll vote as soon as I finish grading this stack of papers and have a chance to read through the investigation posts.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 01:50 PM
Lunchtime for me. My weekend was somewhat busy.

Queuing
04-23-2007, 02:08 PM
Does anyone have the time to do Queuing? I've been asking myself why he is so trustworthy. I know the town was pretty hell bent on lynching him back on day two, but for some reason (which I can't recall) he has gone from least trusted to more-or-less trusted.

I'm beginning to not trust Queuing - for two reasons. First there's his dogged pursuit of Monkeymensch. I don't know for sure if Monkey is a town or mafia, but there is at least one event that makes him more likely to be town than mafia.

Then, there's my case against Lakai. OK, I could be wrong about him, but I'm quite certain he's scum. Queuing didn't even entertain my accusation. He just brushed it off and went on to make a different case.

Anyone else have an opinion about Lakai? Anyone want to wade through Queuing's posts? I'm gonna go back to the day two mess and see if I can find what detracted from the mistrust toward Queuing.

Re: Monkey Mensch and you. I have answered everytime you have asked me to about MM. Yes, there is one point that shows he might just be town. Yes he did vote for SP. Yes it was the tieing vote. However it is quite possible that it was scum just seeing where the bandwagon was heading and getting on it so that they could make the very same defense you are now making.

I did not "brush off" your accusations of Lakai. What I said was I hadn't had time to peruse your broken links, and repost of what BM said. Also that Lakai had been investigated by a known cop and came up citizen. No, this is not definitive, but it is good enough for now. Thats it. Don't know why you are so sensitive about the subject.

How did I become "trusted"? Well I don't know that I am, but wouldn't it be just as good of a question why I was so distrusted the first day? Well I can answer that question (again) if you would like.

First off I came up with this idea for everyone to tell how much experience they had in this game. I also said this might not be a good idea, but hey I was going to ask it anyway. This became me fishing for experienced players. So I guess this wasn't such a good idea.

Then it was because I went after sturmhauke day 1. Day 1 votes were being done for no good reason. I had a reason to vote for him, he had survived while the top players from game 1 had not. Not a very good reason, but hey gots to vote someone.

The 3rd thing that seemed to have pinged scumdars was my willingness to believe ChrisK when he said he was a cop. This was because I have always thought the easiest thing to do is just believe every role claim, and keep believing until its proven false. I know that Chrisk's claim was dumb, and in no way true, but that didn't matter. I believed him until it could be proven false. He did say Enfant Terrible was town, and he was town.

Then came my believing in BM as the crumb from our detective. I would like to point out (as I said many times then) that was not about not believing that menecchio was the crumb, rather it was our inability to know who for sure was the crumb, and therefore believing all were the crumb. To refresh CaerieD had trustes menecchio, distrusted BM and Auto and voted for sturm. Since I believed auto was just playing and not scum (at that time) I FOS'd BM. This lead to day 2. Day 2 I was convinced that I had found a scum, and hence all of the arguments. I was so convinced that, since I didn't make a role claim (not having a role), the only solution was lynch me and kill based on what I was. This seemed to be the starting point for people believing I am town.

From then on a few people have attempted to start a bandwagon on me. I don't know what to say. I think my work has shown me to be town. I have not lied in this game, nor have I changed the way I acted. I have always talked a lot, I have always believed role claims, and I have always acted in what I thought was the town's best interests.

Wow, someone did me. You brave soul Aguecheek.

MonkeyMensch
04-23-2007, 02:20 PM
... Wow, someone did me. You brave soul Aguecheek.
::Starts slow clap for Aguecheek::
:)

brewha
04-23-2007, 03:30 PM
Queuing, after that post I went back and checked on the day two fiasco. Since then, I have gone thru Aguecheeck's summary. You definetly are consistent - which is a very townish trait to have.

I had suspicions that you may be the SK, but your day two attempt at being martyr squished that notion. It is all or nothing with the SK, and dying early would win you nothing if you were indeed the SK. You were practically begging for us to kill you to move the game along.

I'm not saying I completely trust you, but you've given me no reason not to.

ArizonaTeach
04-23-2007, 03:40 PM
Fine, fine. Now where's the Rysto recap, Augecheek? :D :D :D

sturmhauke
04-23-2007, 04:09 PM
That's a very fine summary by Aguecheek. However, that Beat Cop claim still rings false to me. That plus the extra long summary seem to say, "Look how helpful I am, I'm a townie! No, really!" Is that irrational of me? Maybe. But there's so much information to digest, I don't know if I can cross reference everything and get a more logical answer. So there it is.

Vote Aguecheek.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 04:17 PM
And now for the unpopular part of my presentation...I think my original investigation on Queuing as Serial Killer was correct.

I did a hell of a lot of reading this weekend, and I noticed a couple of things that one can't point to in a single post, but as a whole, it's pretty funky.

Queuing appeals to the authority of trusted townies. See his approval of Rysto's and storyteller's analyses. See his jumping all over JSexton's fingering of BlasterMaster as the SK (more on that). See his statements that he'll vote with pimaspinner or storyteller. He's trying to appear helpful, and trying to stay on the town's good side by siding himself with those who're trusted.

This wasn't evident at first when he was involved in that kerfuffle with BlasterMaster et al. I contend that he was not yet on his game yet; hadn't found his sea legs, if you will. I admit the first 2 days is a bit of a weak point in this theory. But a couple of things still come out of that. As I've mentioned before, he called BM scum several times, but doesn't call him the Serial Killer until after JSexton pegs him as such. After that, he pushes for BM's lynching based solely on that fact, no other reasoning is given.

He claims to "believe all claims." And indeed, has recently posted to that effect. All claims, that is, except for BM, zuma[b], and [b]Pleonast. Apparently, it wasn't in his best interest at the time. He came around later, but was quite petulant about it for some time.

He's willing to die, and has encouraged us to lynch him several times. Counterproductive? Perhaps. A couple of people have posted that his willingness has made him seem more town than before. A small point, but still.

He whitewashes or downplays parts that make him look bad or could make him look bad:

After calling on low-count posters to defend ourselves, sturmhauke and I respond, quite angrily. I point out that not only did he miss my vote for him, my only defense at that point was for voting the same as he did against sturmhauke. His reply? "I'm sorry I had the vote count wrong." A small post, lost in the rest. No acknowledgement of his previous vote for what had proven to be a bad idea.

Additionally, last night even - there were no votes for investigations other than MadTheSwine's, asking that I post my results first. Pygmy Rugger agreed with him; so did Queuing, with the caveat that he saw no reason to be investigated again, "but, whatever." These were the only people that suggested investigatees. His response the next day? "I don't know why I was investigated on one person's decision..." And doesn't make any mention of it again; not even to respond to my clarification soon after his post.

Every list of people to be investigated or analyzed includes his name, near the end in a dismissive manner - "Oh...and me, I suppose...!" Not part of the main list, but tucked in there so he can claim he wasn't trying to hide.

These last three are points about his dismissiveness that I've noticed, as they relate to me for the most part. I'm quite certain there are others who've noticed the same things.

And most damning - his complete back-and-forth when it comes to identifying and lynching the Serial Killer.

As noted, he was all for lynching Blaster Master for JSexton’s FOS of him as the SK. But that was only after. Before it was just because he was “scum.” Post 1414: It is in everyone’s best interest to get the Serial Killer.

But by post 1899, he’s not concerned with the SK anymore. Getting mafia is more important. He says this to Fern Forest. To MadTheSwine. He tells everyone he’s done talking about the SK. He refuses to discuss it with me. He tells everyone, that the Mafia needs to get a simple majority to win. But that the SK needs to kill 27. Plenty of time to get the SK. Why does he de-emphasize the Serial Killer? Because there was no firm suspect as yet. People would be looking around for one, and he didn’t want the attention. Why’d he say the SK needed to take out 27 people? He was hoping that people wouldn’t call him on it and that they’d figure he was right…27 is still a lot of people, after all. He refused to discuss it with me after I called him on it.

By 2400, he’s back to saying that we need to kill the Serial Killer. Why? Because pimaspinner had determined that Fern Forest was the SK. And 50/50 chance is good enough for him, by golly.

And finally. His last list of people to investigate (#2917) started with poor glee. That was who he was hoping I’d investigate rather than him. Who died that night? pimaspinner and glee. We don’t know who killed who, but I’m willing to bet that Queuing, as the Serial Killer, killed glee.. He was hoping that I would pick the first one on his list, then use that against me, claiming that I was mafia, that I had had glee killed and then be able to claim to have “investigated” him with no worries of contradiction. Once I clarified why I investigated him instead, that’s the last we heard of it…Except for MonkeyMensch who noticed I seemed to go off on my own for investigating and is now the target of Queuing’s push.

And I also investigated him and he came up Serial Killer. 50/50 chance, perhaps, but like Queuing says, that’s good enough for me.

These are my thoughts on my analysis of his posts. He talks a lot. He jokes about it, and hopes that you’ll laugh along with him. And then hides in the noise he’s created.

I’m not trying to start a bandwagon, I’m laying out the reasons for why I’m now Voting Queuing, and why I’ll vote for him until I’m dead.

Fretful Porpentine
04-23-2007, 04:21 PM
Great, after reading everything I'm more confused than I was before. Aargh!

:confused: :smack:

I think I'm going to vote brewha again, because though his posts are reasonable enough, his voting pattern still looks as scummy as it did last time. Also, he seems to have gotten into a one-on-one with Lakai, who by pimaspinner's investigation has a much-better-than-even chance of being town. Also, I don't have the foggiest idea who else to vote for.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 04:23 PM
That's a very fine summary by Aguecheek. However, that Beat Cop claim still rings false to me. That plus the extra long summary seem to say, "Look how helpful I am, I'm a townie! No, really!" Is that irrational of me? Maybe. But there's so much information to digest, I don't know if I can cross reference everything and get a more logical answer. So there it is.That's one way of looking at it, and you're welcome to your opinion. I'm not trying to point out how helpful I am; I'm still incredibly suspicious of Queuing, and I was quite unhappy that no one was volunteering to look at his posts. So I did it. And I've posted what I've gleaned from his posts. You're welcome to do the same and come to your own conclusion.

sturmhauke
04-23-2007, 04:32 PM
I remain suspicious of both you guys, actually. Maybe Queuing is the SK, but I still think you're Mafia.

sturmhauke
04-23-2007, 04:33 PM
By "you", I mean Aguecheek. Stupid inconvenient page break.

Queuing
04-23-2007, 05:02 PM
And now for the unpopular part of my presentation...I think my original investigation on Queuing as Serial Killer was correct.

Oh man, how I wish. I was really hoping to get some cool role, but alas all I am is town.

Queuing appeals to the authority of trusted townies. See his approval of Rysto's and storyteller's analyses. See his jumping all over JSexton's fingering of BlasterMaster as the SK (more on that). See his statements that he'll vote with pimaspinner or storyteller. He's trying to appear helpful, and trying to stay on the town's good side by siding himself with those who're trusted.

True, I did vote with Pimaspinner when he claimed. So did a lot of other people. I also voted with storyteller...well until today when after doing much reading of people's posts I think MM is more likely to be scum, and would rather go after him first.


This wasn't evident at first when he was involved in that kerfuffle with BlasterMaster et al. I contend that he was not yet on his game yet; hadn't found his sea legs, if you will. I admit the first 2 days is a bit of a weak point in this theory. But a couple of things still come out of that. As I've mentioned before, he called BM scum several times, but doesn't call him the Serial Killer until after JSexton pegs him as such. After that, he pushes for BM's lynching based solely on that fact, no other reasoning is given.

No other reason given? I had stated my case many times over about BM, and why I thought he was scum. I never considered him to be the SK because I have no idea how to tell who the SK is. I don't like the inclusion of this role I have decided because there are no ways to tell who the hell he or she is. They get to act just like anybody else, maybe quieter, maybe louder, but there are no specific SK tells. Or at least none that I know of.

He claims to "believe all claims." And indeed, has recently posted to that effect. All claims, that is, except for BM, zuma[b], and [b]Pleonast. Apparently, it wasn't in his best interest at the time. He came around later, but was quite petulant about it for some time.

Here I was quite mad. I totally thought that I had found some dirty rotten scum. Then they all of a sudden all became to claim. It seemed fishy at first, and I refused to believe it because I was so damn smart that I knew I had caught them. After a while, and I believe I even wrote this, I said dammit, I have to believe them. Its the only sensible way I can go about playing this game IMO. So I did. Add that to the whole conspiracy theory about BM being a little to farfetched to be believed, and the lack of mason counter-claims, well I had to accept their claims didn't I? Don't see how this is any different then all of the rest of us. Nor do I see how this is me pushing with no reasons.

He's willing to die, and has encouraged us to lynch him several times. Counterproductive? Perhaps. A couple of people have posted that his willingness has made him seem more town than before. A small point, but still.

Yes I am willing to die if I must. I still win or lose with my team right? I don't want to do however, nor do I want to lose, and that is why I take the time to answer all of these accusations.

He whitewashes or downplays parts that make him look bad or could make him look bad:

Huh? When have I ever done this? I have repeatedly reminded people of how I first came to be suspicious, I have never hidden my feelings about any person or how I think they are acting, nor have I ever tried to downplay me part in the day 2 fiasco.

After calling on low-count posters to defend ourselves, sturmhauke and I respond, quite angrily. I point out that not only did he miss my vote for him, my only defense at that point was for voting the same as he did against sturmhauke. His reply? "I'm sorry I had the vote count wrong." A small post, lost in the rest. No acknowledgement of his previous vote for what had proven to be a bad idea.

What should I have said? Oh lord please forgive me for not getting these vote counts correct? Sturmhauke was angry about me FOSing some of the low post players because he was one. He had pointed out that that was a terrible idea in the last game. I was aware of this. What do you want from me? How many rosaries (or something I am not catholic) do I need to do to make up for this error? Nor has "it been proven to be a bad idea" I am afraid to tell you this but just because sturmhauke and you don't like it, it doesn't make it bad. In fact Rysto has suggested going after low count posters, as has Pleonast. What was a potential bad idea last game is not necessarily a bad idea this game.

Additionally, last night even - there were no votes for investigations other than MadTheSwine's, asking that I post my results first. Pygmy Rugger agreed with him; so did Queuing, with the caveat that he saw no reason to be investigated again, "but, whatever." These were the only people that suggested investigatees. His response the next day? "I don't know why I was investigated on one person's decision..." And doesn't make any mention of it again; not even to respond to my clarification soon after his post.

This is a lie. Other posters did suggest you go after other people, I myself did. You took the agreeing with MTS about you reporting first as agreeing to investigate me. That is fine. You claim to be a cop. You ultimately have the right to investigate whom you please.

Yes, "whatever". See above. I can make suggestions but that is. That is all any of us can do. So if you feel as though you must investigate me then do so. I can't stop you, hence "whatever". Your clarification was basically the same thing that you had said before. I don't agree with it. I think multiple had asked you to investigate someone else. I think you taking the agreement with MTS on one thing meant another. I don't happen to think this is a big deal, and not worth fighting for. Mostly because I don't know if you are the cop yet. I think if you are, you have played this game very badly and wasted many a nights investigation. However I did not want to come right out and say that, but if you would like me too I will. I also think CaerieD played horribly. I think if you are a cop, then the only cop who played at all well was pimaspinner, and this sucks for the town. Now I don't think I have played very well at all either, however it seems one of the main reasons the town won last game was because of the excellent seer play. We were not so lucky this time.

Every list of people to be investigated or analyzed includes his name, near the end in a dismissive manner - "Oh...and me, I suppose...!" Not part of the main list, but tucked in there so he can claim he wasn't trying to hide.

Yes, I suppose that is true. This is because I know what I am, and don't see a need to investigate me because of it. However I understand that you don't know what I am, and may want to investigate me. It seems you have investigated me. Twice even. I thought it was more of a friendly fun joke type thing but YMMV. I do think there are better people to investigate then people you have already done.

These last three are points about his dismissiveness that I've noticed, as they relate to me for the most part. I'm quite certain there are others who've noticed the same things.

Dismiss you? Have I not taking the time to answer the vast majority of any accusations levelled at me? Or is this thrown in there because brewha to felt that I was dismissing him because he didn't like my answer towards lakai? Wow, I didn't realize I had such power. Oh wait I don't. Check the votes. No one is voting with me.


And most damning - his complete back-and-forth when it comes to identifying and lynching the Serial Killer.

As noted, he was all for lynching Blaster Master for JSexton’s FOS of him as the SK. But that was only after. Before it was just because he was “scum.” Post 1414: It is in everyone’s best interest to get the Serial Killer.

But by post 1899, he’s not concerned with the SK anymore. Getting mafia is more important. He says this to Fern Forest. To MadTheSwine. He tells everyone he’s done talking about the SK. He refuses to discuss it with me. He tells everyone, that the Mafia needs to get a simple majority to win. But that the SK needs to kill 27. Plenty of time to get the SK. Why does he de-emphasize the Serial Killer? Because there was no firm suspect as yet. People would be looking around for one, and he didn’t want the attention. Why’d he say the SK needed to take out 27 people? He was hoping that people wouldn’t call him on it and that they’d figure he was right…27 is still a lot of people, after all. He refused to discuss it with me after I called him on it.

By 2400, he’s back to saying that we need to kill the Serial Killer. Why? Because pimaspinner had determined that Fern Forest was the SK. And 50/50 chance is good enough for him, by golly.

Lot to deal with here. What I said, actually, was that we were discussing who the SK was when we did not need to at that time. To this day I have no idea, beyond dumb luck, how the SK will be found. Since the town is not the only people who need worry about the SK (in that the mafia need to get him/her as well), that perhaps we ought to let them worry about it for a bit. By a bit I meant one night. I don't recall the exact numbers but I believe we were had yet to kill any mafia, with nesta being killed by the SK we think. I thought it behooved the town to try to get 2 scum that night, and then worry about the SK. We have the means at our hands to get scum (posts and scum tells) we do not for the SK. I thought our energies would be better served looking after the scum for that ONE night. As I clearly stated.

That takes care of why I am worried about the SK again I think. Even though to be honest, no I don't think we can be worried about the SK today either. I think its time the mafia worried about the SK. As the only tools we have are posts, and I don't see how the SK will have tells, we should use what we have and try to get another scum. To each his own however.

And finally. His last list of people to investigate (#2917) started with poor glee. That was who he was hoping I’d investigate rather than him.

Umm, I believe I had been asking for glee to be investigated for a long time. Check your posts. Yep I had been. Did I just put glee on my list? Nope I did not. So out of that you get the above? huh?

Who died that night? pimaspinner and glee. We don’t know who killed who, but I’m willing to bet that Queuing, as the Serial Killer, killed glee.. He was hoping that I would pick the first one on his list, then use that against me, claiming that I was mafia, that I had had glee killed and then be able to claim to have “investigated” him with no worries of contradiction. Once I clarified why I investigated him instead, that’s the last we heard of it…Except for MonkeyMensch who noticed I seemed to go off on my own for investigating and is now the target of Queuing’s push.

Huh? You can't be serious can you? Have I not called for you to live? At least for a little while? And out of reading my posts, where I unvote you when you claim, where I say hey we need to let him live in case he is telling the truth you get some of the above convoluted logic, that I was going to try to lynch you today? I say again, HUH? Seriuosly where are you getting any of the above from?

And I also investigated him and he came up Serial Killer. 50/50 chance, perhaps, but like Queuing says, that’s good enough for me.

<snip>


True enough. And it would have been. Except you know you investigated me again and I came up town? So using that math again it is much more likely that you were right the second time and wrong the first time. In other words you are trying to start up a bandwagon, but you are a day late. I commend you and brewha however. Nice try, and if it succeeds, well then I die :). I am still just a townie. And I still think MM is the most likely scum that is out there.

Any other questions?

cowgirl
04-23-2007, 05:17 PM
you guys, I am SO sorry, I have been through a week from hell that has ended with me with a sinus infection. I got started with my list of Kat's posts last night but I couldn't finish it, I will do so tonight and read through the thread. I feel terrible. I don't mean to abandon y'all.

I'll be back in a bit.

NAF1138
04-23-2007, 05:45 PM
you guys, I am SO sorry, I have been through a week from hell that has ended with me with a sinus infection. I got started with my list of Kat's posts last night but I couldn't finish it, I will do so tonight and read through the thread. I feel terrible. I don't mean to abandon y'all.

I'll be back in a bit.


Just so you know (in case you missed my earlier post) there are less 24 hours left in the day. If I am counting correctly there are in fact 17 hours 45 minutes left.

Not telling you what to do, just reminding you that there isn't much time left to do it in.

Menocchio
04-23-2007, 05:45 PM
I'll go with vote Aguecheek for now, althoyugh Brewha also seems suspcious.

I do have to say though, that i find the long post summaries to be eye-glazingly tedious and unhelpful. It's the kind of non-information that seems informative that scum would use.

Aguecheek
04-23-2007, 06:24 PM
True, I did vote with Pimaspinner when he claimed. So did a lot of other people. I also voted with storyteller...well until today when after doing much reading of people's posts I think MM is more likely to be scum, and would rather go after him first.Yes, but you've made quite sure to announce each time that you're voting with them. To pima: "I still see no reason to not vote how you say." Re: storyteller, voting for Pygmy Rugger: "Voting for you because Storyteller did."

No other reason given? I had stated my case many times over about BM, and why I thought he was scum. I never considered him to be the SK because I have no idea how to tell who the SK is. I don't like the inclusion of this role I have decided because there are no ways to tell who the hell he or she is. They get to act just like anybody else, maybe quieter, maybe louder, but there are no specific SK tells. Or at least none that I know of.No other reasons why you were fingering BM as the SK, other than that JSexton had decided he was. Why not stick with scum in general, or mafia?

Here I was quite mad. I totally thought that I had found some dirty rotten scum. Then they all of a sudden all became to claim. It seemed fishy at first, and I refused to believe it because I was so damn smart that I knew I had caught them. After a while, and I believe I even wrote this, I said dammit, I have to believe them. Its the only sensible way I can go about playing this game IMO. So I did. Add that to the whole conspiracy theory about BM being a little to farfetched to be believed, and the lack of mason counter-claims, well I had to accept their claims didn't I? Don't see how this is any different then all of the rest of us. Nor do I see how this is me pushing with no reasons.Yup, you were definitely mad. But you specifically said: "I don't believe you. I think you are the SK...My vote stands." Why'd you think he was the SK? Because of JSexton? And I did concede that you unvoted later.

Yes I am willing to die if I must. I still win or lose with my team right? I don't want to do however, nor do I want to lose, and that is why I take the time to answer all of these accusations.You do still win or lose with your team. I just think your team is the Serial Killer. And you've been very upfront with your desire to help the town, posing as Helpful Queuing.

What should I have said? Oh lord please forgive me for not getting these vote counts correct? Sturmhauke was angry about me FOSing some of the low post players because he was one. He had pointed out that that was a terrible idea in the last game. I was aware of this. What do you want from me? How many rosaries (or something I am not catholic) do I need to do to make up for this error? Nor has "it been proven to be a bad idea" I am afraid to tell you this but just because sturmhauke and you don't like it, it doesn't make it bad. In fact Rysto has suggested going after low count posters, as has Pleonast. What was a potential bad idea last game is not necessarily a bad idea this game.I was kind of hoping you'd say something along the lines of "You were right. I did miss that vote. And I did miss your defense of why you originally voted for sturmhauke, for the same reasons I did. Thanks for pointing that out." I'm stating that the bad idea was voting for sturmhauke in the first place, not FOSing low-count posters.

This is a lie. Other posters did suggest you go after other people, I myself did. You took the agreeing with MTS about you reporting first as agreeing to investigate me. That is fine. You claim to be a cop. You ultimately have the right to investigate whom you please.Exactly! And I posted that reason right after you did. And I didn't even get a "oh yeah - I can see how you would think that." I didn't get any response. Even after you'd posted how much you were looking forward to my posting the result. Even after it seemed to exonerate you.

Dismiss you? Have I not taking the time to answer the vast majority of any accusations levelled at me? Or is this thrown in there because brewha to felt that I was dismissing him because he didn't like my answer towards lakai? Wow, I didn't realize I had such power. Oh wait I don't. Check the votes. No one is voting with me.Yes, dismiss me. This is the first time you've responded significantly to anything I've asked you. "Hey Queuing...the SK doesn't need to kill all 27 people, just be alive at the end." One would expect something along the lines of "Woops. You're right." I got "I'm not discussing that anymore."

Lot to deal with here. What I said, actually, was that we were discussing who the SK was when we did not need to at that time.Yes, you did. I'm just pointing out that you seem very inconsistent when calling for the lynching of the SK. Only when we have a "solid" lead, and then it's really important? Why not ask around and see if anyone's got any other ideas how we could find him?

Umm, I believe I had been asking for glee to be investigated for a long time. Check your posts. Yep I had been. Did I just put glee on my list? Nope I did not. So out of that you get the above? huh?Yes, you have been calling for glee for some time. I don't deny that. I thought it odd that you put your investigation list prominently up near the end of the day, and glee just happened to die that night. And immediately after, you come up with your own reason why you think the SK targeted him. By pinning the blame on me, you got MTS killed, and next would've been me. Two more down, and Queuing lives another day.

Pleonast
04-23-2007, 07:00 PM
Concerning the Serial Killer:

There's 18 people left in the game. We've killed 4 Mafia, out of probably 9. So the factions are 12 Town vs 5 Mafia vs 1 SK. Who's ahead here? If the Town is ahead, we should try to lynch the SK as soon as possible. If the Mafia is ahead, we should let them kill the SK. Kind of like a game of chicken.

If we lynch a Mafia each day, we'll win in 5 days (ignoring the SK for now), 8 vs 0. If we make one mistake, we'll win in 6 days, 6 vs 0. Two mistakes: 4 vs 0 after 7 days. Three mistakes: 2 vs 0 after 8 days. Four or more mistakes: we lose.

Add in the SK. Each excess Town death (a Townie killed either by us or the SK) brings us closer to losing. If the SK kills a Townie each night, assuming the best case of us lynching a Mafia each day, we'll have eliminated the Mafia, 4 vs 0 after 5 days. So we can win if we lynch only Mafia or the SK each night, no matter what they do.

If we lynch one Townie by mistake, the outcome can go either way. If we get the SK early, we're ok. If we make the mistake early, and fail to get the SK until later, we'll lose, unless the SK kills more Mafia than Town. Basically, if we lynch one more Townie, it's the SK's game to lose.

Queuing
04-23-2007, 10:16 PM
Yes, but you've made quite sure to announce each time that you're voting with them. To pima: "I still see no reason to not vote how you say." Re: storyteller, voting for Pygmy Rugger: "Voting for you because Storyteller did."

I am sorry but I still fail to see your point here. Pimaspinner was a cop, and of course I would vote with him. You may also have noticed that I voted with people who knew more then I did, such as a cop, and hence their vote has a better chance of being correct, so yes I followed them.

As to storyteller, well I don't remember who it was who FOS'd storyteller and starvingbutstrong so I looked at storyteller's posts. Lo and behold I think his postinig looks town. Not only that he seems to have been right a lot. I have been wrong a lot. So I put my vote with him while I did more research.

And this makes me the scummiest of them all, the SK?

No other reasons why you were fingering BM as the SK, other than that JSexton had decided he was. Why not stick with scum in general, or mafia?

What difference does it make? Anyway.... I went with SK because I thought, at the time, that a good case had been made for him having a killing role. Since I thought he was anti-town, well there is only one killing role left, isn't there?

Again, I fail to see your point here. I went after BM, and kept going after BM, until he was able to prove that he was town. Maybe I am wrong, but if I see a scum (I think) I will go after said scum until they convince me otherwise. I suppose like you are doing here :)

Yup, you were definitely mad. But you specifically said: "I don't believe you. I think you are the SK...My vote stands." Why'd you think he was the SK? Because of JSexton? And I did concede that you unvoted later.

Good of you to concede the truth. Yes, I was mad. No I didn't believe him. I didn't WANT to believe him. I thought, at the time, it sounded fishy that this guy just made a role claim. Yes, I was convinced partly by JSexton. There was another person who also believed BM had a killing role, and made some statements about it (maybe PR? Forgive me, I have read a lot of posts the last couple days)

So whats the point of this questioning? You concede that I changed my mind just like I said I did, when I was no longer mad, and yet you make point again? Sorry man, no one is that stupid that you will catch them in a lie this quick.

You do still win or lose with your team. I just think your team is the Serial Killer. And you've been very upfront with your desire to help the town, posing as Helpful Queuing.

Why thank you Sarcastic Aguecheek :). My team is town however.

I was kind of hoping you'd say something along the lines of "You were right. I did miss that vote. And I did miss your defense of why you originally voted for sturmhauke, for the same reasons I did. Thanks for pointing that out." I'm stating that the bad idea was voting for sturmhauke in the first place, not FOSing low-count posters.

Meh, I still think low count posters might be hiding in the bushes. Or at least not helping. Of course I might be talking to damn much to be helpful either. YMMV.

I don't think voting sturmhauke was a bad idea, sorry. It was day 1. Random voting was all the vogue.

Oh you mean the other time I voted for sturmhauke? Again, meh. Sturmhauke was a lot more active in game 1 then he had been in game 2. I thought this was odd. Apparently he has internet problems. Ok then. Good of you to anoint yourself protector of masons however. You will not get an apology from me for you FOSing low count posters or Sturmhauke sorry. If Sturmhauke feels aggrieved by my accusations I may apologize to him. I doubt he will feel that way though.

Exactly! And I posted that reason right after you did. And I didn't even get a "oh yeah - I can see how you would think that." I didn't get any response. Even after you'd posted how much you were looking forward to my posting the result. Even after it seemed to exonerate you.

Umm sorry? I didn't mean to ignore you. I still love you. You are a good beat cop. Look I have even spelled your name right all this time!

Yeah, I was looking forward to what you had to say. Unfortunately you continued your horrible play and investigate someone a second time. Sorry I wasn't thrilled you wasted yet another night.

Yes, dismiss me. This is the first time you've responded significantly to anything I've asked you. "Hey Queuing...the SK doesn't need to kill all 27 people, just be alive at the end." One would expect something along the lines of "Woops. You're right." I got "I'm not discussing that anymore."

Ah, I think I know what you mean. Yes you are right. Feel better? No? Hmmm...

Sorry I wasn't exactly sure what time you were talking about before. I thought you were talking about the time I said we shouldn't worry about the SK and instead should focus on scum. I caught a lot of flack for that, and explained myself like 3 times. I did it one last time, and then said that was it. You should have known what I was saying about the SK by then, and agree/disagree I couldn't change your minds nor would anyone benefit from my repeating myself. Yet here we are....

Yes, you did. I'm just pointing out that you seem very inconsistent when calling for the lynching of the SK. Only when we have a "solid" lead, and then it's really important? Why not ask around and see if anyone's got any other ideas how we could find him?

That would be sweet. Got any? Don't know how that is inconsistent mind you. Me saying "hey lets not worry about the SK because I don't know how we can find him". Then someone going "hey this is how we can find them, and here is who I think it is", me again "cool, sounds good lets kill them".

So this is inconsistent thinking? I am afraid, sir, that it is not, and your idea has blinded you to seeing that.

Yes, you have been calling for glee for some time. I don't deny that. I thought it odd that you put your investigation list prominently up near the end of the day, and glee just happened to die that night. And immediately after, you come up with your own reason why you think the SK targeted him. By pinning the blame on me, you got MTS killed, and next would've been me. Two more down, and Queuing lives another day.

So it was odd that I showed my list? Huh? How is this odd? The cop asks for suggestions and I give them, yet I make it to prominent? Huh? Sorry next time I will use a smaller font :dubious: .

Pinning the blame on you? Getting MTS killed? You still have my posts handy? Mind showing me where I did this? Because you know, I didn't vote for MTS, nor did I say "hey glee was killed to make me look suspicous because aguecheek didn't investigate him like I suggested, therefore aguecheek must be killed"/ Oh wait I didn't.

Nor have I voted for you. Not that that matters, because enough don't believe that you are the cop. Myself, being you know consistent, would rather keep you alive, god knows why however as you have done an absolute shite job of being the beat cop if you are him.

So any other questions? Or do we have to rehash this over and over until the end of the day?

A question for Menecchio while I believe we have gained less then I had hoped from this exercise, do you have any better ideas? Or are you just saying I don't like this while suggesting nothing else?

A question for the others, what do you feel we gain from the hanging of aguecheek over say monkey mensch or lakai or malacandra or brewha or cowgirl or me? None of us have claimed cop. Or are sure enough that the information he may provide would be useless?

StarvingButStrong
04-23-2007, 10:22 PM
I'll say this again officially for the skimmers: My belief is StarvingButStrong is town.



Thank you!


Of course, one post later you suggest I might be the SK. So maybe I'll escape this day unhung just to be done in by the mafia. :eek:


This is an...interesting...town to live in, isn't it? :D

StarvingButStrong
04-23-2007, 11:05 PM
Hey guys --

If I haven't screwed up the time too badly (which I wouldn't bet more than two bits against) we're darn close to 12 hours left. And, unfortunately, most of us will be asleep for about 8 hours of that 12 hours.

So that really doesn't leave us a lot of time to settle on a nominee, and we ought to leave as much time as possible for him/her to make a claim...er... I mean, make a defense.

Since I haven't seen a vote count in a while, so let me cobble one together based on NAF's latest:


2- Malacandra - (ArizonaTeach, hocow)
2- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke, Menocchio)
2- brewha - (lakai, Fretful Porpentine))
2- cowgirl - (kat, Pygmy Rugger)
1- Lakai - (brewha)
1- MonkeyMensch - (Queuing)
1- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller)
1-Queuing (Aguecheek)

No votes yet from:

cowgirl, Malacandra, Pleonast, StarvingButStrong

And Rysto is current in Witness Protection or something like that.

Lakai
04-23-2007, 11:24 PM
I think Smitty makes her look more scummy. Smitty suspected glee and Auto and he voted for Enfant and Gadarene.

The new cowgirl so far has suspected me, MadTheSwine, Pygmy Rugger. MTS turned out to be town so her record is not too good. That plus I never did like her reasons for suspecting these people. She has defended herself pretty well however, which has stopped her from being on the top of my scum list.

What's suspicious about brewha is that he dismisses people's defenses way too easily and with little reasoning. Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8408755&postcount=466), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8435686&postcount=1820), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8454864&postcount=2453), here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484171&postcount=3007) and here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8484341&postcount=3010).

Then after he FOS's Jsexton for not dying one night, he votes for Augecheek saying that beat cops are worthless anyway.

Here are my reasons for suspecting cowgirl and brewha. I haven't found a better target so I'm going to stick it out with brewha. Hopefully more people will vote for him. I hope he doesn't claim at the eleventh hour, because I won't be around to switch my vote.

Santo Rugger
04-23-2007, 11:42 PM
If we go with Queuing's paradigm of believing all role claims, and assume for a minute that Aguecheek's a cop, then the Mafia or the SK is going to take him out soon. One of them killed pima the night after JSexton wasn't around to protect anybody. I'm very dubious of Ague's claim, but it might be better to leave him be for today, and focus on somebody else. If he's not alive tomorrow or the next day, that lynch will pretty much decide itself.

StarvingButStrong
04-23-2007, 11:58 PM
And now for the unpopular part of my presentation...I think my original investigation on Queuing as Serial Killer was correct.


I almost laughed when I read this.

Not because it's ridiculous, but because I spent almost all my spare time Saturday and Sunday rereading this damned thread from the POV of assuming Queuing was mafia (maybe even the Godfather!) and seeing if I could make that 'fit' with his posts. Not looking for evidence that he *was* mafia, just whether there was evidence of non-scumminess I couldn't explain away.

I was doing pretty darn well, too, for the first 49 pages. I especially liked my explanation for the voting patterns of Nesta and kivvik vs. Queuing: see, in my Q=scum version, he was an overenthusiastic mafia the first day, doing just about everything he could to shove townies up the gallow's stairs. You now, that fishing for experienced players, that deliberate pretense that ChrisK's 'claim' of being a beat cop was something that should be taken seriously and ChrisK forced to continue posting results or die, the insistance that CaerieD's breadcrumb was distrust of Autolycus. Anyway, all that stuff that got him onto 10 different distrust lists. :eek:

So that night, the rest of the Mafia landed on him with admonishments, warnings, advice to lay low, hints on how to start looking more like townie, and similar stuff. I thought they might also have decided that some of them would vote to lynch Queuing early in the day. Strategy votes. If Queuing's efforts to rehabilitate himself failed, Nesta and kivvik would gain townie points for having been among the earliest to vote for him. If Q did escape hanging, fine. And it turned out to work the other way round: once Nesta and kivvik were killed and revealed as Mafia, well, doesn't it make it look that much more certain that Q is town?

Of course, then the day went to hell, and I think the mafia hadn't planned for what happened any more than town did -- claims coming left and right and votes leaping around like drunken grasshoppers. I think Q's 'nobility' in accepting his death in the various conditional propositions was a combo of 1) 'dying for the good of the town' might make him look towny enough to escape (which it actually did) and 2) if you go back and look, every single one the conditionals that Q proposed or endorsed would have ended with the second death being a townie. So, he was taking one nobly for the scum.

Then, of course, it got flipped and suddenly Gadarene was the test case, and Q the vig target....which was no sweat. Q the mafia was quite sure G was town, so Q would be safe and it would be another townie targeted by the Vig.

All in all, I was satisfied that my Q as scum theory would fly, and I was getting very cheerful about it. Wahoo! I, a total newbie, had spotted another scum, and this one much more hidden that Suburban Plankton had been.

And then I got into Day 3. And I kept coming across Queuing voting to lynch or kill FCoD and Suburban Plankton. Why? Okay, FCoD was probably a gonner, but it was Fern Forrest who seemed lined up as next most suspicious, and Q going for SP instead.

Urk. No matter how I twisted it, I just couldn't explain those votes as likely Mafia maneuvers.

So, sorry, my beautiful theory fell to the ground.

Now, I must confess I didn't consider Q as Serial Killer at all. I guess I have a blind spot where that role is, because I just don't see any reason a SK would post any different than a vanilla townie. It's all to his benefit to get rid of the Mafia as fast as possible, yes? At least, until/unless the mafia get close to the upper hand... I mostly assume the SK gets killed by chance, one side thinking they're targeting just another member of the other side.



These are my thoughts on my analysis of his posts. He talks a lot. He jokes about it, and hopes that you’ll laugh along with him. And then hides in the noise he’s created.


He sure does, doesn't he? The idea of fewer posts to wade through almost sways me to vote for him. Almost.

Of course, right now I've a petty desire to vote for Pygmy Rugger for dissing all our beautiful research posts. HEY! A bunch of us wasted hours on a beautiful weekend to produce them. Couldn't you at least ignore them silently?

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 12:06 AM
If we go with Queuing's paradigm of believing all role claims, and assume for a minute that Aguecheek's a cop, then the Mafia or the SK is going to take him out soon. One of them killed pima the night after JSexton wasn't around to protect anybody. I'm very dubious of Ague's claim, but it might be better to leave him be for today, and focus on somebody else. If he's not alive tomorrow or the next day, that lynch will pretty much decide itself.

I thing you mean, "if he IS alive tomorrow or the next day"?

If so, this seems sensible to me.

And....vote for Cowgirl.

She and a couple of others are actually tied on my list, but she got a second chance to play this game, so I'll feel less badly about it if she dies and turns out to be town.

G'night.

Santo Rugger
04-24-2007, 12:18 AM
I thing you mean, "if he IS alive tomorrow or the next day"?

If so, this seems sensible to me.

<snip>

I thing you're right. ;)

Aguecheek
04-24-2007, 03:10 AM
I am sorry but I still fail to see your point here. Pimaspinner was a cop, and of course I would vote with him. You may also have noticed that I voted with people who knew more then I did, such as a cop, and hence their vote has a better chance of being correct, so yes I followed them.You voted with the people who had a better chance of being correct, you voted for BM based on JSexton's FOS, you voted with the Masons. You're lining yourself up with all the good guys, hoping that it'll rub off on you.

What difference does it make? Anyway.... I went with SK because I thought, at the time, that a good case had been made for him having a killing role. Since I thought he was anti-town, well there is only one killing role left, isn't there?It makes plenty of difference. You pointed to zuma, Pleonast and Blaster Master all being in on it together. And all of a sudden, you're pointing to BM as the SK, who couldn't be working together with the other two. You saw an opportunity to make your vote stronger, and you took it. My point is that you did not mention Blaster Master as the Serial Killer until after someone else had pointed it out. And then you jumped on it with both feet.

So whats the point of this questioning? You concede that I changed my mind just like I said I did, when I was no longer mad, and yet you make point again? Sorry man, no one is that stupid that you will catch them in a lie this quick.No lie to catch. You're telling the truth. You did unvote him, but as I noted, you acted very unhappy about it, and only unvoted after a large part of the town agreed to accept him. My point here is that you were all fired up to lynch him as the SK and wouldn't let go of it. And then later on, you have no desire to target the SK at all, despite the fact that the situation's getting more dire and your previous statements that the SK is a dreadfully important target to hit. And then later-er on...the SK is dreadfully important again.

Why thank you Sarcastic Aguecheek :)No worries at all! ;)

I don't think voting sturmhauke was a bad idea, sorry. It was day 1. Random voting was all the vogue.Heh. I do - it got me on a buttload of distrust lists and I haven't been off since. And until I pointed you out as the SK, it's the only action I can think of that's put me on those lists. I'm not a prolific poster, and the one time I stuck my nose out there, it got bitten. Made it onto JSexton's list, Blaster Master's, yours. And you were FOS'ing me for no apparent reason I can think of (post #1459), except for that - the same vote as yours. Looks to me like you were basing your entire suspicion of me based on JSexton again.

Yeah, I was looking forward to what you had to say. Unfortunately you continued your horrible play and investigate someone a second time. Sorry I wasn't thrilled you wasted yet another night.Ah. I get it. So pima's a good cop, 'cause she investigated FCOD twice and got the same result. I'm a horrible cop 'cause I investigated you only on MTS's say so and got a different result. Check. True that I agree that the cop role sucks and that I investigated people to confirm roles rather than obtain them. Mea culpa. I don't claim to be the best player here, never have. However, my point...again, is that I have pointed you out as the Serial Killer. You. Once the night was over, a reasonable person, regardless of how they read the directions for whom to investigate, would have said something along the lines of relief that they were exonerated (halfway, anyways), would have responded to the post with an agreement that the directions were confusing and suggested another target when this night was over. You didn't. You didn't reply at all, which looks to me like you just wanted to get the SK stuff behind us all and move on to another target.

Sorry I wasn't exactly sure what time you were talking about before. I thought you were talking about the time I said we shouldn't worry about the SK and instead should focus on scum. I caught a lot of flack for that, and explained myself like 3 times. I did it one last time, and then said that was it. You should have known what I was saying about the SK by then, and agree/disagree I couldn't change your minds nor would anyone benefit from my repeating myself. Yet here we are....I'm terribly sorry. I didn't realize I was supposed to respect your wishes not to discuss things anymore because you'd said that was it. It doesn't take much. "You're right, just has to live at the end. I still don't want to talk about it." Overall, you're entirely correct, it's not a big thing at all. But compare that with the times you did want to talk about the Serial Killer and how fired up important it was, the sudden dismissal is quite a turnaround.

That would be sweet. Got any? Don't know how that is inconsistent mind you. Me saying "hey lets not worry about the SK because I don't know how we can find him". Then someone going "hey this is how we can find them, and here is who I think it is", me again "cool, sounds good lets kill them".Thanks for asking. I propose we have a closer look at the posts of a guy who came up SK in a cop investigation. After all, 50/50's good enough. And try to look for points about him that seem odd. There's nothing I can think that we can point to directly unfortunately, but maybe we might be able to find a time when he pushed for finding or lynching the Serial Killer, and pushed against it when it wasn't to his advantage. Let's look for somebody who's vehement about lynching the Serial Killer when it's someone else who's been identified as such. But when there's no one in particular, not so much. Getting the Serial Killer is only important when somebody else has identified them. Apparently they're not that important otherwise, after all, they need to kill 27 people to win.

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 08:34 AM
Hey guys --


2- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke, Menocchio)


::sigh:: Okay, I'm bad at math, but this is a new low. Shall we count? One, two, two, two, two, ....


New and improved vote list:

3- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke, Menocchio)
3- cowgirl - (kat, Pygmy Rugger, StarvingButStrong)
2- Malacandra - (ArizonaTeach, hocow)
2- brewha - (lakai, Fretful Porpentine))
1- Lakai - (brewha)
1- MonkeyMensch - (Queuing)
1- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller)
1-Queuing (Aguecheek)

Queuing
04-24-2007, 09:30 AM
Any chance of an official vote count? And anyone know how much time is left? I would prefer that aguecheek does not die, and will change my vote if it becomes necessary. I also would prefer that Cowgirl not die, at least not until she has posted her assignment :). Of course that may leave me with a choice I don't want to make, but I will if I must.

storyteller0910
04-24-2007, 09:31 AM
This is getting harder and harder, not easier and easier as I was hoping it would. There are currently 20 players left in the game:

Aguecheek
ArizonaTeach
brewha
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
hocow
Kat
Lakai
Malacandra
Menocchio
MonkeyMensch
Pleonast
Pygmy Rugger
Queuing
Rysto
StarvingButStrong
Storyteller0910
Sturmhauke

Now, I’d like to start, as I have in the past, with a few assumptions. Once again, I think it’s a very good idea for these assumptions to be questioned. If people take different approaches in deciding how to vote, and two or more variant approaches come to a similar conclusion, it might yield a good target. So, here are my temporary assumptions for today’s vote:

1. We shouldn’t be worrying about the SK right now. I have no idea how to find him or her, and with so little time left until the deadline that’s not an avenue I want to pursue until later.

2. sturmhauke and Pleonast are Masons (Given)

3. Menocchio is town. There is still the possibility that he is the Godfather, but I think we can worry about that if and when we get down to the endgame if we still haven’t caught the GF.

4. Lakai is town, or likely enough to be that he should not be a lynch target today. Why? Well, first of all, there’s pimaspinner’s last report, which unless I’m screwing up the math means he has something in the vicinity of a 75% probability of being town on that basis alone. Also: I read brewha’s case against Lakai a few times, and something struck me. brewha is absolutely right: with the exception of a conditional vote for FCoD, Lakai has attacked exclusively townfolk. Maybe I’m overthinking this a bit, but would this be a Mafia move? If Lakai were Mafia, he would know that sooner or later his voting record would start to look bad, because he would know that he was voting for only town. Now this could be part of a sneaky "be-really-obvious" gambit, but coupled with pima’s findings it takes him off the suspicion list for me right now.

5. Aguecheek should not be lynched today. I make this assumption even if he is lying and is really scum. If he is not scum, he will be night-killed later or (much more probably) sooner. If townies start dropping left and right and he doesn’t, then we can lynch him at our leisure - as I think I said in a previous post, we know where he is. Better to let him hang around because if he is a beat cop and we kill him, we have essentially given the Mafia an extra night kill in addition to losing any information we might get from him.

6. Queuing is not Mafia, nor is Malacandra. I am basing this on my belief that two players who get into a direct, one-on-one confrontation that lasts for many posts are unlikely to be scum, because scum wouldn’t want to place the spotlight so firmly on them.

7. storyteller0910 (me) is town.

8. Finally, Rysto should not be lynched today. I have no particular feeling about him one way or the other - my early impressions of him as strongly town have faded to a general sense of “I have no idea” - but since he’s gone today and can’t defend himself, we should stay far away from him for the nonce.

On the list above, I’ve boldfaced all of the players that I have (temporarily) removed from consideration (at least by me). On the list below, these names have been taken off the list:

ArizonaTeach
brewha
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
hocow
Kat
MonkeyMensch
Pygmy Rugger
StarvingButStrong

There are nine people on this list. It is very possible that more than half of them are Mafia, which means a shot in the dark would yield a good chance of finding a bad guy.

Next up, closer analysis of the nine people listed above.

Menocchio
04-24-2007, 10:15 AM
Yeah, I'll drop Aguecheek. Might as well ignore him until other choices are exhausted.

Vote brewha.

Pleonast
04-24-2007, 10:17 AM
Hmm, neither cowgirl nor Malacandra have voted. Looks like I'll vote for cowgirl.

brewha
04-24-2007, 10:19 AM
I agree that this isn't getting any easier. I was hoping that we could come to a concensus on who was scum based on the post recaps.

We got about 1:10 left before lynch time, and I hate to see someone go to the noose wit only three votes. Mafia alone can form that size of a lynch mob.

We need to hear from the lurkers who haven't voted yet.

cowgirl
04-24-2007, 10:33 AM
- this post is written in great haste.

- I have not read through the whole thread again nor done Kat's analysis for which I profoundly apologize. For what it's worth she has always been high on my Suspected Townie list because of consistently honest and helpful analysis.

Where the hell is my analysis? *sulks in corner*I am so, so, so sorry. I honestly haven't spent this little time on the 'Dope in, well, years. Please don't take it personally, you are quite worthy! in spite of your feline nature (achoo!)

- I apologize again for disappearing; my dog had surgery on Friday, I was hit with a sinus infection Sunday, had to go out of town for work on Monday and this morning I am coordinating a huge media release thing that isn't working quite the way we planned. All in all I have not had nearly as much time to participate as I had hoped. And I am going to have six people in my office staring at my monitor at 10:30 so I can't do much at that time! Kill me if you must. I have screwed this game up completely.

Role claim - altho you don't have any reason to believe me - I am the Guardian Angel. I should have protected Pima or JSexton or Blaster, now that I have missed my chance I don't know who to protect any more.

- They killed the first me because they thought I had a power role, because I asked what was in it for the power roles to post lots of analysis. They thought it was a naive question by a doctor (or something). In my defense I would not have asked such an obvious question if I DID have a power role.

My defenses: Vote cowgirl

In addition to what Lakai said, her unvote/revote of MadTheSwine worries me, specificially the "But for now, I am not convinced enough to drive this bandwagon, so unvote MadTheSwine." and then "This is a bandwagon I would rather get behind. unvote Malacandra, vote MadTheSwine." Makes it sound like a bandwagon for MTS is okay as long as she's not the one who might get blamed for it.Fair call. I was suspicious of MTS but in a game like this, one person's suspicion isn't worth much. It becomes more worthy when others share it. That's all I meant. YMMV.

- I am still suspicious of Lakai and Pygmy Rugger but I find this most convincing:
With that in mind, noting that Malacandra, nesta, and FCOD immediately supported the disastrous vig-kill plan where Pleonast, Gadarene, and Queuing were the sacrificial lambs, I believe that, my friends, was a serious mob pile on.


Vote Malacandra - even tho voting for Aguecheek would put him/her in the lead, I really don't think s/he is scum.

Gotta go. I may see you on the other side. Sorry for being so appallingly bad at this.

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 10:37 AM
Since no one else seems to be doing this, new vote count:

4- cowgirl - (kat, Pygmy Rugger, StarvingButStrong, Pleonast)
3- brewha - (lakai, Fretful Porpentine, Menocchio)
2- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke)
2- Malacandra - (ArizonaTeach, hocow)
1- Lakai - (brewha)
1- MonkeyMensch - (Queuing)
1- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller)
1-Queuing (Aguecheek)

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 10:45 AM
-
Role claim - altho you don't have any reason to believe me - I am the Guardian Angel. I should have protected Pima or JSexton or Blaster, now that I have missed my chance I don't know who to protect any more.




Shit. Shit.

I think our 'believe all claims' motto has gone seriously wrong. It means that every suspect can claim anything and Bingo! Get out of jail free.

Double points if you wait until the (almost literally true) ELEVENTH HOUR to make your claim, so people have to scramble like mad to find another candidate AND that means the new candidate then has NO time to mount a decent defense -- which is rottenly unfair. :mad:

So... I dunno. I'm going to think about this for a few minutes before possibly changing my vote.


Count right now:

4- cowgirl - (kat, Pygmy Rugger, StarvingButStrong, Pleonast)
3- brewha - (lakai, Fretful Porpentine, Menocchio)
3- Malacandra - (ArizonaTeach, hocow, cowgirl)
2- Aguecheek - (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke)
1- Lakai - (brewha)
1- MonkeyMensch - (Queuing)
1- Pygmy Rugger - (storyteller)
1-Queuing (Aguecheek)[/QUOTE]

storyteller0910
04-24-2007, 10:46 AM
- this post is written in great haste.

- I have not read through the whole thread again nor done Kat's analysis for which I profoundly apologize. For what it's worth she has always been high on my Suspected Townie list because of consistently honest and helpful analysis.

I am so, so, so sorry. I honestly haven't spent this little time on the 'Dope in, well, years. Please don't take it personally, you are quite worthy! in spite of your feline nature (achoo!)

- I apologize again for disappearing; my dog had surgery on Friday, I was hit with a sinus infection Sunday, had to go out of town for work on Monday and this morning I am coordinating a huge media release thing that isn't working quite the way we planned. All in all I have not had nearly as much time to participate as I had hoped. And I am going to have six people in my office staring at my monitor at 10:30 so I can't do much at that time! Kill me if you must. I have screwed this game up completely.

Role claim - altho you don't have any reason to believe me - I am the Guardian Angel. I should have protected Pima or JSexton or Blaster, now that I have missed my chance I don't know who to protect any more.

- They killed the first me because they thought I had a power role, because I asked what was in it for the power roles to post lots of analysis. They thought it was a naive question by a doctor (or something). In my defense I would not have asked such an obvious question if I DID have a power role.

My defenses: Fair call. I was suspicious of MTS but in a game like this, one person's suspicion isn't worth much. It becomes more worthy when others share it. That's all I meant. YMMV.

- I am still suspicious of Lakai and Pygmy Rugger but I find this most convincing:


Vote Malacandra - even tho voting for Aguecheek would put him/her in the lead, I really don't think s/he is scum.

Gotta go. I may see you on the other side. Sorry for being so appallingly bad at this.

Whoa. Coming to a screeching halt to ask: why didn't you protect pima last night?

Queuing
04-24-2007, 10:51 AM
Role claim - altho you don't have any reason to believe me - I am the Guardian Angel. I should have protected Pima or JSexton or Blaster, now that I have missed my chance I don't know who to protect any more.

Bah, yet another role claim. Unfortunately I see no purpose in your role claim. You are right, you should have used your power a lot earlier.

Sorry for the stress in your life.

Well first things first, unvote monkey mensch

And I suppose lynch brewha even though there are people I would much rather lynch (monkey mensch/malacandra) however it seems brewha is in the 2nd closest to dieing and since I don't want to vote for aguecheek or cowgirl now.

Santo Rugger
04-24-2007, 11:03 AM
Whoa. Coming to a screeching halt to ask: why didn't you protect pima last night?

Seriously. The GA gets two protects, right? Last night, the doctor and the cop should have been protected. Period. JSexton didn't protect himself for one of two reasons. He thought another player was more valuable, or was chosing the target of his protect randomly. Hindsight is 20/20, sure. I'd be much more likely to believe this claim, and change my vote, if those two hadn't died last night.

MonkeyMensch
04-24-2007, 11:07 AM
I'm going to let my vote ride where it stands, that is with Aguecheek. Cowgirl's suspicious to me still but I don't like the company I'd be keeping with my fellow voters. Pleonast excepted, they're not real scummy, but they're certainly question marks to me.

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 11:13 AM
And this is another claim that there's no useful way to test, right?

I mean, yeah, we could order her to protect two people tonight -- the remaining mason and (claimed) beat cop, say -- but all that would mean is that the mafia & sk would target others. Because if cowgirl is mafia, they'll play along to keep us from lynching her tomorrow, and if she's really the GA then they'd waste their kill going after a protectee.

Heck, even if she's a vanilla townie -- or how about the Serial Killer? -- it doesn't matter, the results the same.

I dunno, I dunno. I don't think either Brewha or Malacandra is markedly scummy. What to do?

Pleonast
04-24-2007, 11:14 AM
Ok, then unvote cowgirl (not that I believe the claim, but she voted), and vote Malacandra.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:14 AM
That puts me in the lead. Time for a role claim of my own:

I'm just a townie. I'm no one. You won't learn anything from my death other than that my suspicions were sincere.

I only got about 25 min to get this changed, but ask yourselves why you are voting for me. I really hope it more than " Meh, he's in the lead anyway."

Why would I publicly defend and nearly overturn the lynching of MTS if I were mafia? Look back at StarvingbutStrong's analysis of me.

If my death does go through, reconsider Lakai - he's scum. I'm also getting the impression that we are all being manipulated by Queuing. Does anyone else get the feeling that he just glosses over accusations with a lot of words? A couple of paragraphs from Aguecheek spawn a 1600+ word response from Queuing. I got about half way through before my brain rationalized that since he wrote so many words, he must be on our side. Actually read his response and make up your own minds. If noticed a trend with him. On the first accusation, he will respond politely and make you think he's a nice guy. That convinced me to change my vote before. If you accuse him again he gets angry (within the roles of the game, I'm attacking the actor not the real Queuing) and tends to belittle your response and cause you to second guess yourself.

Since I'm the lone voter for Lakai, I'm switching to a horse that's make beat me to the noose.

Unvote Lakai

Vote Queuing

cowgirl
04-24-2007, 11:15 AM
Whoa. Coming to a screeching halt to ask: why didn't you protect pima last night?I can't explain that. In part because I had just started the game and was so busy getting my head around everything else I didn't have headspace to think about protecting anyone. In part because they had all survived so long I had no reason to expect they would all go that night.

Now my regret is huge because I don't know who I would protect now.

It's a hard role to have - I wouldn't know what to do with it under ideal circumstances, which these are not.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:16 AM
I meant 'that might beat me'

I have no idea where that sentence came from

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 11:24 AM
I can't explain that. In part because I had just started the game and was so busy getting my head around everything else I didn't have headspace to think about protecting anyone. In part because they had all survived so long I had no reason to expect they would all go that night.

Now my regret is huge because I don't know who I would protect now.

It's a hard role to have - I wouldn't know what to do with it under ideal circumstances, which these are not.


You know what bothers me? She's so busy she couldn't get around to posting her defense until so late...and now has time to hang around to read and reply to questions. :dubious:

And yet, we've agree to believe all claims....and if she IS the GA, she might actually be of use near the end.

So, a *very* reluctant:

unvote cowgirl

vote Queuing


I have no idea what the counts are. If this ends in a tie, well, fine. Let fate (or random.org) sort it out.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:27 AM
Not that I would have voted for him before, but:

Unvote Queuing

Vote Malacandra

I know I'm not scum I don't know that Malacandra isn't.

If might count is right, this at least gives me a 50/50 of living.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:29 AM
You know what bothers me? She's so busy she couldn't get around to posting her defense until so late...and now has time to hang around to read and reply to questions. :dubious:

And yet, we've agree to believe all claims....and if she IS the GA, she might actually be of use near the end.

So, a *very* reluctant:

unvote cowgirl

vote Queuing


I have no idea what the counts are. If this ends in a tie, well, fine. Let fate (or random.org) sort it out.


by my count, even if I didn't just change my vote, Queuing would still be at three.

Queuing
04-24-2007, 11:30 AM
Voting for me, starvingbutstrong? Ok, can I ask why?

Brewha, so I aguecheek attacks me for not answering him and you attack me for answering him? Sigh, it seems like I can't win. I actually answered aguecheek a couple times, and then he started with the sarcasm. So I gave it back. I only answer the questions given to me, if that causes you to second guess yourself perhaps its because my answers make sense?

cowgirl
04-24-2007, 11:30 AM
You know what bothers me? She's so busy she couldn't get around to posting her defense until so late...and now has time to hang around to read and reply to questions. :dubious:
With the exception of last night, when I was overwhelmed and still trying to do Kat's posting history, I answered all questions put to me at my first opportunity to do so.

It takes quite a bit less time to answer questions than to put together a list of someone's postings.

This morning I was frantically gearing up for our event at 10:30, which is now finished. I will be responding to phone calls all day but will be able to check in periodically.

Please check my recent posting history at the board, you will find I have been extremely quiet lately as opposed to my normal habits, because of my week from hell.

Lynch me if you like; you will be lynching a townie. My strongest suspicions still reside with Malacandra, Pygmy Rugger and Lakai; if I die, please think about them.

Queuing
04-24-2007, 11:32 AM
Anybody have a vote count?

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 11:40 AM
Voting for me, starvingbutstrong? Ok, can I ask why?



Desperation, mostly. It's suspicious if I don't vote. It's suspicious if I vote for someone with a claim. I don't think either Brewha or Malacandra is scum, so I don't want to vote for them. It's unfair to vote for Rysto.

Mostly, I think, because I spent most of the weekend figuring out how you could be mafia and maybe some of that stuck.

I dunno. It's not based on much of anything. Maybe I should unvote you and vote for myself. Yeah, that would be killing a townie, too, but at least it would be over for me.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:44 AM
Man! The suspense is killing me (hopefully not literally).

Doesn't this day end at 10:30 CST?

NAF1138
04-24-2007, 11:45 AM
You crazy guys with all your super last minute voting!

Give me a second, work got in the way. I just want to double check my final tally, but it looks like Malacandra got done in today.

Back to post a night scene in a minute.

ArizonaTeach
04-24-2007, 11:46 AM
Ohhhh....why did you have to go and do that, StarvingButStrong? I can't justify your doing that.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:46 AM
Anyone else wanna vote for Queuing? I'd be happy to change my vote back so he could be on the other side of the coin flip with me.

ArizonaTeach
04-24-2007, 11:49 AM
I think the day's over, brewha. I just wanna say that I hope everyone is paying very, very close attention to who is supporting whom right now, and who is fighting for whom right now, which I think is even bigger. If Malacandra is scum, I think the game's been blown wide open.

God, I hope he's scum.

storyteller0910
04-24-2007, 11:54 AM
New vote count:

5- Malacandra (ArizonaTeach, hocow, cowgirl, Pleonast, brewha)
4- brewha (Queuing, lakai, Fretful Porpentine, Menocchio)
2- Aguecheek (MonkeyMench, Sturmhauke)
2- cowgirl (kat, Pygmy Rugger)
2- Queuing (Aguecheek, StarvingButStrong)
1- Pygmy Rugger (storyteller)

Holy crap. I was trying to work through the nine suspects listed in my last substantive post, and all of this happened. What now? I'm not switching my vote to Malacandra, because I don't think he's Mafia. I don't know what to make of brewha; his vote seems to move around an awful lot, but I don't know if that really signifies anything other than a confused townie.

On balance, I'm sticking with my vote, in the hopes that someone somewhere is paying attention. There's no one on that list other than Pygmy Rugger that I feel comfortable with right now as a target. I realize that this makes me the damn Libertarian Party again, but this time I'm sticking with my ticket.

I'll continue looking at everyone else, and post results later or at the beginning of our next Day.

In the meanwhile, what the heck do we do with cowgirl's role claim? I feel like there's some way we could use this to our advantage, but I haven't thought it out enough and there's so little time. These very late role claims are incredibly frustrating, because they essentially give information out that we have no time to act upon, but that the scum get the whole Night to consider. Crap.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:54 AM
F5

::taps foot::

F5

::Looks at watch::

F5

man I hope he's scum too.


F5

Queuing
04-24-2007, 11:56 AM
Only thing I have to say about cowgirl's role claim is that she uses it tonight, using the whole random thing, and hope we get lucky and she blocks someone. Of course we have no way of knowing if she does or not, but for right now I see no other options.

brewha
04-24-2007, 11:56 AM
I don't know what to make of brewha; his vote seems to move around an awful lot, but I don't know if that really signifies anything other than a confused townie.



My vote is Lakai, my vote only changed to save my own neck.

Queuing
04-24-2007, 11:58 AM
My vote is Lakai, my vote only changed to save my own neck.

And the begged for people to change with you to save said neck. Not begging to lynch someone who you seem to be damn sure is scum, but just anybody.

StarvingButStrong
04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
C'mon, NAF! I have to leave the house no later than 12:10 to be at work on time....and then I'll be in suspense until after work!

Santo Rugger
04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
<snip>man I hope he's scum too.


NAF? I'm beginning to think he's the SK!!!

cowgirl
04-24-2007, 11:59 AM
Only thing I have to say about cowgirl's role claim is that she uses it tonight, using the whole random thing, and hope we get lucky and she blocks someone. Of course we have no way of knowing if she does or not, but for right now I see no other options.Can do, if the group wills it. better hurry, I don't know if we can talk about it after nightfall.

storyteller0910
04-24-2007, 12:00 PM
Can do, if the group wills it. better hurry, I don't know if we can talk about it after nightfall.

Is this Day officially over?

brewha
04-24-2007, 12:01 PM
And the begged for people to change with you to save said neck. Not begging to lynch someone who you seem to be damn sure is scum, but just anybody.

I've been begging to lynch someone I'm sure is scum all day. That didn't work.

Like I said before. I'm sure I'm not scum. I'm not sure Malacandra isn't.

Queuing
04-24-2007, 12:01 PM
I would say not until NAF officially says so

ArizonaTeach
04-24-2007, 12:02 PM
And the begged for people to change with you to save said neck. Not begging to lynch someone who you seem to be damn sure is scum, but just anybody.Ok, maybe it's the suspense, but I couldn't understand what you wrote there at all. Fast-typing-to-English-translation, please?

NAF1138
04-24-2007, 12:02 PM
The day ended with a prayer from ArizonaTeach that today they would once again catch scum.

It had been an eventful day. Lots of interesting information had been poured over, and the town was ready to make a decision. Yes, it would be cowgirl who swung from the rope this time. But as she stood with her head in the noose she screamed out "Stop, I am on a mission to save this town! I am your Guardian Angel!"

Could it be, the town wondered. If it was true then the town may be dooming itself by killing off it's last protector. But there wasn't time to investigate and decide if she was telling the truth. Night was falling and the town had to act.

For reasons that your humble narrator is still not entierly sure of, Malacandra was chosen to be killed, although the decision was very close. And as the last rays of light faded from Malacandra was killed.

Malacandra - Citizen

Has been Killed

48 hours to sunrise.

Get your night votes in.

Queuing
04-24-2007, 12:03 PM
Ok, maybe it's the suspense, but I couldn't understand what you wrote there at all. Fast-typing-to-English-translation, please?

I meant he not only changed his vote from someone, but also begged others to do the same, to change votes to someone who he doesn't necessarily think is scum.

storyteller0910
04-24-2007, 12:03 PM
The day ended with a prayer from ArizonaTeach that today they would once again catch scum.

It had been an eventful day. Lots of interesting information had been poured over, and the town was ready to make a decision. Yes, it would be cowgirl who swung from the rope this time. But as she stood with her head in the noose she screamed out "Stop, I am on a mission to save this town! I am your Guardian Angel!"

Could it be, the town wondered. If it was true then the town may be dooming itself by killing off it's last protector. But there wasn't time to investigate and decide if she was telling the truth. Night was falling and the town had to act.

For reasons that your humble narrator is still not entierly sure of, Malacandra was chosen to be killed, although the decision was very close. And as the last rays of light faded from Malacandra was killed.

Malacandra - Citizen

Has been Killed

48 hours to sunrise.

Get your night votes in.

SON OF A BITCH!

Queuing
04-24-2007, 12:05 PM
Man we suck at this game.

RIP Malacandra. I will be doing my multiplication tables in your honour.

ArizonaTeach
04-24-2007, 12:05 PM
I give up. I take the blame. I go to bed now. Don't wake me in the morning.

Just thought of something...won't Malacandra be surprised when he shows up after a several day sabbatical to see what happened.

Santo Rugger
04-24-2007, 12:06 PM
*sigh* looks like we have another long night ahead of us. :(

MonkeyMensch
04-24-2007, 12:15 PM
RIP Malacandra. Shit.

MonkeyMensch
04-24-2007, 12:17 PM
Barkeep: a pint of Gelteschlager (well it should be spelled that way) and a potential side of hemolck.

hocow
04-24-2007, 12:19 PM
Shit.

cowgirl
04-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Sorry Mal. This sucks. Say hi to Yeltsin up there.

Hopefully this will be a long night so I can get caught up. With my luck, I'll end up dead by morning.

brewha
04-24-2007, 02:41 PM
Sorry Mal. This sucks. Say hi to Yeltsin up there.

Hopefully this will be a long night so I can get caught up. With my luck, I'll end up dead by morning.


At least you can spend your last night in the bar. I got dirty looks from people wielding pitchforks and torches when I tried to go in there.

Malacandra
04-24-2007, 03:37 PM
Here I am coughing up £1 for ten minutes at Center Parcs to say:

Goodbye, cruel world!

And I won't even be in the clubhouse for another three days.

Tell everyone I took it like a man. Go Town! (as if you've a chance)

Kat
04-24-2007, 08:51 PM
Sorry to see you go, Mal. I'll drink a shot for you tonight.

*takes a seat and waves for the bartender*

Anyone mind if I get totally sloshed?

Kat
04-25-2007, 12:50 AM
Is it a sign of something that I'm still constantly refreshing this thread, even though it's night time?

StarvingButStrong
04-25-2007, 01:46 AM
So, I see we did it again. ::sigh::

[non-gaming mode]


I want to ask a serious question about the game -- it's not about strategy or anything like that, but if it's still out of line, I'll accept being slapped down.


Is it just me, or is there a definite falling off of interest in this game? There were hardly any posts from Friday through Monday other than the 'history' of various player's post and a bit of rebuttal by them, until the brief flurry of votes towards the end.

Perhaps this game is just taking too long? I think we have just about the same number of players as the third game right now, but we've been at it for a full month.

It's reminding me of the marathon games of Risk we played years ago. For those who haven't played Risk, you accumulate cards which you trade in for 'armies' which you pit against those of the other players, the outcome determined by rolling dice. The thing is, the number of armies you got increased each time you redeemed a set of cards -- 5, then 10, then 15, 20 and so forth. After a couple of hours you'd have these ridiculous battles where you were pitting a pile of 350 armies against an opponent's nearly as large pile...and the dice rolls went on and on and on and on.... It became a chore, not fun.

I suspect having to dig back through 60+ of pages of posts in hopes of finding a tell is at least nudging the line between 'fun' and 'tedium' for many of us.

Or....am I totally off base?

[/non-game mode]

brewha
04-25-2007, 07:37 AM
I think a big issue is that some of our more vocal players (Blaster Master, Jsexton) have been killed off. When the thread was putting on 200-300 posts a day, they were the catalyst that got most of the conversations/arguements going.

I do agree that the thread has really slowed down.

MonkeyMensch
04-25-2007, 09:39 AM
... I do agree that the thread has really slowed down.
Yeah, but in a nice way. There was nice discourse, terrific summations and smileys and humor to boot.

MonkeyMensch
04-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Oh, and a mimosa witha coffee regular back, please.

Queuing
04-25-2007, 09:42 AM
I also agree that the thread seems to have slowed down. Part of the problem, IMO, is morale. The town is taking such an ass kicking that some of us could be getting a little demoralized. The length of the thread is also a concern. That was one of the reasons I started to do a posting history of people, and I think why a lot of you jumped on board to help out. It makes it a lot easier to go through this thread IMO. Of course we do have some nay sayers (menecchio) but that really is inevitable.

Another problem is the apparent internet connectivity issues Comcast seems to be suffering through. Sturmhauke (and one other person I can't remember) has complained about the lack of internet connectivity at home. This could be contributing to the thread slow down.

My hope is that the next day cycle will pick up as we now have a posting history of pretty much everyone still left alive in this game. I expect people to have actually read them by the time the day starts, and to have formed an opinion on whom they want to go after.

Plus doesn't Risk have a 50 army limit on trade ins? And isn't it suppose to start going down afterwards? Like once you hit the 50 the next person gets 45 and so forth? To prevent the very situation you are talking about?

storyteller0910
04-25-2007, 10:05 AM
Plus, weekends are bad times for participation for a lot of people, I think. I know that I have an easier time, generally, contributing when I'm spending nine hours a day sitting at a computer than when I'm home, and there are lawns to mow, gardens to plant, rugs to vacuum, and so on.

I'm actually psyched to get back to Day... I have some ideas that I want to share. Of course, this means I will be dead by morning.

Gah!

StarvingButStrong
04-25-2007, 10:23 AM
I expect people to have actually read them by the time the day starts <snip>

Will it be on the test?


Plus doesn't Risk have a 50 army limit on trade ins? And isn't it suppose to start going down afterwards? Like once you hit the 50 the next person gets 45 and so forth? To prevent the very situation you are talking about?

Hmm. Could be: we were around age 10 - 12 when we were playing. I really doubt we read the rules carefully. :D

sturmhauke
04-25-2007, 12:15 PM
I suspect having to dig back through 60+ of pages of posts in hopes of finding a tell is at least nudging the line between 'fun' and 'tedium' for many of us.
Yeah, between that and my problems with Comcast (it's better now, but not totally resolved, bastards) it's not been as fun. I'll try to post more though.

sturmhauke
04-25-2007, 12:16 PM
Plus doesn't Risk have a 50 army limit on trade ins? And isn't it suppose to start going down afterwards? Like once you hit the 50 the next person gets 45 and so forth? To prevent the very situation you are talking about?
The army cap is an optional rule in the book, I think, but I never heard of the limit going back down once it peaked. That sounds like a house rule.

Aguecheek
04-25-2007, 02:19 PM
I agree that the game's slowed down a lot. Unfortunately for me, my IR life has picked up considerably in the past two weeks to compensate. As mentioned, we had someone leave the office and I'm doing 2 people's work right now (due to go back to my work only tomorrow or Friday, thank god) and rehearsals in the evening (last one's this coming Saturday, thank god).

So when I get home at 11:00 at night, it's much much nicer to only have a page to read through rather than 10.

I need a nap somethin' awful.

NAF1138
04-25-2007, 02:27 PM
The evening after the Malacandra lynch was a somber one. The townspeople of Doperville were beginning to get downhearted. Had they forgotten their victories of only a few days before? Of course they had! Memories are short when people live in constant terror. There was only one thing to be done, re examine all the evidence. There would be no drinking tonight. Tonight, they would work!

ArizonaTeach went down to the old arboretum to study his evidence. To this day no one is sure why. Perhaps he liked the quiet of the mini man made forest. Perhaps it was because it was the only place in town where you could see the majestic saguaro cactus of his home. In a macabre twist that only a deranged lunatic (or perhaps an evil criminal attempting to frame a deranged lunatic) could come up with it was the majestic saguaro that would be the method for ArizonaTech's demise. His body was found beaten and bloody out behind the bar, covered in cactus thorns. The forensic investigator later concluded that Teach had been drugged, stripped naked, placed on roller skates, and dragged through the saguaro forest growing in the arboretum from the back of a pickup truck. He was then shot repeatedly with a small caliber pistol.

Menocchio had a less spectacular but perhaps more grizzly death. While going over his reading at home, he was accosted by thugs who tied a plastic bag over his head, restrained his arms with piano wire, stuffed him in his own oven, and roasted him alive. The coroner said that he suffocated before he cooked.

ArizonaTeach - Citizen

and

Menocchio - Citizen

are both dead.

The day ends in exactly 120 hours. 11:30 Monday pacific time.

The remaining players are:

Aguecheek
brewha
cowgirl
Fretful Porpentine
hocow
Kat
Lakai
MonkeyMensch
Pleonast
Pygmy Rugger
Queuing
Rysto
StarvingButStrong
Storyteller0910
Sturmhauke


With 15 alive, it's 8 to start the clock.

Good luck, and try to stay alive.

brewha
04-25-2007, 02:51 PM
Well, this sucks. It looks like the SK is definetly on the Mafia's side. I find it curious that cowgirl survived the night. Of course, she could have protected herself and someone else who was not targeted.

I also find it curious that someone as outspoken as Queuing has survived this long. Why is it that the mafia have not taken him out yet?

We really need to come together as a town today and get a majority concensus on who is most scummy. There is likely only 9 or 10 actual town left. If there's 4-5 mafia, it would be very easy for them to sway the vote and get another town lynched today.

StarvingButStrong
04-25-2007, 02:55 PM
Whoa! The bad guys are getting sadistic!


RIP ArizonaTeach and Menocchio -- we'll try to avenge you.

Queuing
04-25-2007, 02:58 PM
Well I am alive, I think, because people keep trying to get bandwagon's started to kill me, so why would the mafia bother? For the SK, well aguecheek seems to think I am the SK, so why would the SK kill me?

Or its because I am moron and keep FOSing the wrong people so the mafia has nothing to worry about.

Anyway, to get this day started, as I have laid out many a time I think Monkey Mensch is scum and therefore:

Lynch Monkey Mensch

If people feel so inclined, would you mind telling me why you don't think he is scum? Bearing in mind we have gone over the voting for SP thing already. Unless that is the only reason you don't think he is scum, and think its a good enough reason to not vote him.

brewha
04-25-2007, 03:01 PM
I also wanted a chance to rebutt Queuings statment against my final vote. I didn't want to post this at night since it is likely strategy.


And I suppose lynch brewha even though there are people I would much rather lynch (monkey mensch/malacandra) however it seems brewha is in the 2nd closest to dieing and since I don't want to vote for aguecheek or cowgirl now.



Not begging to lynch someone who you seem to be damn sure is scum, but just anybody.

You voted for me because I had the second most votes. Not because I'm someone who "you seem to be damn sure is scum, but just anybody".

You did this because you weren't sure if cowgirl was scum or not. Well, I am damn sure I'm not scum. Anyone who is not me, is more likely to be scum in my mind.

Folks, I say we take out Queuing today. He appears to be taking the role as the town leader since Blaster Master's demise. And he has been wrong. Either maliciously or mistakenly, he has been wrong. We've done nothing but lynch town folk and we've done so following his lead.

Regardless of his affiliation, the town would be better off without him.

Vote Queuing

StarvingButStrong
04-25-2007, 03:15 PM
Well, this sucks. It looks like the SK is definetly on the Mafia's side.

How so? I'm guessing Menocchio (basically confirmed townie) was the Mafia kill, and ArizonaTeach (unknown) was killed by the SK. If so, the SK could still be going after Mafia, just not having any better luck than we are. :( Or, s/he's even leaving it up to chance: s/he just randomly kills any player of unknown status. The SK can win by eliminating either side, so just nibble away, nibble away, and see what happens.



I find it curious that cowgirl survived the night. Of course, she could have protected herself and someone else who was not targeted.

I also find it curious that someone as outspoken as Queuing has survived this long. Why is it that the mafia have not taken him out yet?

Yes, both of those deserve pondering. Cowgirl, did you use your powers last night?

Queuing had been the most prolific poster, has sort of been a leader to some of us, and is a real work horse for the town. Definitely the Mafia should want him gone.

Also, what about Aguecheek? Why kill a 'vanilla' townie if there's a beatcop available to target? Unfortunately, as always, this can be read both ways: A) he's mafia or B) he's really a beat cop (or even a vanilla townie who lied to save himself) and they figure all they need do is leave him alone a couple nights and we'll lynch him for them.

Aguecheek -- your report, please?


We really need to come together as a town today and get a majority concensus on who is most scummy. There is likely only 9 or 10 actual town left. If there's 4-5 mafia, it would be very easy for them to sway the vote and get another town lynched today.

But how to tell a majority that is 8 town vs. one that is 5 mafia and 3 town???

Here's a strange thought: if we got MORE than ten votes for a player, that would mean at least one mafia joining in...so if we get a 'supermajority' for one player, wouldn't that mean the target is actually town? Unless, of course, the mafia are thinking the same way, and pile onto a mafia target to make it *look* like they're happy helping to kill a townie, in which case town votes should jump off....

My head hurts. Is it too late to get a drink? A bloody mary seems appropriate.

Lakai
04-25-2007, 03:16 PM
Any reason the masons did not get killed today? I'm inclined to believe that cowgirl is the guardian angel, because the mafia were afraid of her protecting the masons.

Also, if cowgirl is the guardian angel, she should never tell anyone she has used her powers. Lets keep the mafia worried that the GA might use her powers at anytime.

I'll wait for Augecheek to announce who he investigated before I discuss voting strategy.

Lakai
04-25-2007, 03:19 PM
Yes, both of those deserve pondering. Cowgirl, did you use your powers last night?


No!!!!!!

Don't tell anyone that. Cowgirl should keep it a secret until she dies.

StarvingButStrong
04-25-2007, 03:26 PM
No!!!!!!

Don't tell anyone that. Cowgirl should keep it a secret until she dies.


Oh, right, right! Sorry, that was stupid of me.

And, on third thought...maybe the Mafia didn't go after any of the 'obvious' targets for fear that Cowgirl would be protecting them, so that would make it less suspicious that they all survived.

This game is too twisty for me. Another Bloody Mary!

Aguecheek
04-25-2007, 03:31 PM
Aguecheek -- your report, please?Right here, sorry Chief. ;) I was buying lunch.

I investigated MonkeyMensch, per previous requests and current suspicions.

Came back town.

Queuing
04-25-2007, 03:49 PM
Folks, I say we take out Queuing today. He appears to be taking the role as the town leader since Blaster Master's demise. And he has been wrong. Either maliciously or mistakenly, he has been wrong. We've done nothing but lynch town folk and we've done so following his lead.

My lead? Despite the fact that the last 2 days the person lynched was not someone I wanted lynched?

Lynch me if you must, but don't listen to lies about me. If I "led" then don't you think Monkey would be dead?

brewha
04-25-2007, 03:59 PM
True Monkey isn't dead, but there's more than just getting your way. You've also managed to get people to second guess who they think is mafia.

You haven't been hit my the mafia and I find that very suspicious (among other things). It's either because you yourself are mafia or you are completely wrong about your accusations and the mafia are sitting back and enjoying watching you lead the town away from them.

Queuing
04-25-2007, 04:31 PM
I have? Really? Who? Do you mean because I tried to not get aguecheek killed? Honestly I haven't tried to sway very many people at all, I don't think at least. All I have done is post posting histories of people and then given my opinion. But think as you please, I know that I have no hope in convincing you.

Rysto
04-25-2007, 07:06 PM
First of all, I'm very sorry that I missed the past Day. It won't happen again, I can promise you.

Second, unless I missed it, nobody ended up doing a review of my posts. I'd offer to do it myself, but that would pretty much be missing the point.

Third, I think that the Mafia are going after the SK, and that they night-killed Arizona Teach. I just can't understand why they would go after Menocchio instead of confirmed townies Pleonast and sturmhauke.

Fourth, if that's true, I think that puts a lot of doubt on Aguecheek's claim. His investigation of Queuing as the SK would seem to make him a prime target to the Mafia if Aguecheek truly was a cop.

Fifth, as I've mentioned before, his claim is exactly what a Mafia would claim. He gave us a bunch of information we already knew, and nothing that we can use to confirm his claims. His investigation of pimaspinner was bizarre given that pima's claim was being tested the very night that Aguecheek did his investigation. And why did he investigate MonkeyMench instead of cowgirl last night?

NAF1138
04-25-2007, 07:11 PM
First of all, I'm very sorry that I missed the past Day. It won't happen again, I can promise you.



Welcome back Rysto!

storyteller0910
04-25-2007, 07:12 PM
So many thoughts... I think we might be able to make some real progress today.

I’m going to begin, if I may, with some basic strategy thoughts:

This game has fallen into a definite pattern. I have pointed this out before, but not as strongly or as specifically as I’m going to do here. The pattern has gone like this:

(1) Player A (town) makes an assertion, which runs contrary to the ideas of -
(2) Player B (also town). Player B, perhaps logically, finds this suspicious, and says so.
(3) Player A thinks that Player B is the one using suspicious logic, because it differs from his or her own.
(4) Player C (also town) agrees very strongly with Player A.
(5) A fierce argument ensues, with accusations and counter-accusations thrown back and forth.
(6) Barring role claim, we lynch Player A or Player B, with support from Players D through G (alignment unknown). The lynched player turns out to be town.
(7) We get frustrated.

So far in this game, the direct confrontations between individual players have not involved Mafia. The confirmed Mafia, it seems to me, were largely dispassionate. Some laid low, some posted more often; some gave the FoS to townies and some to one another. But they have not done so forcefully. They have not doggedly returned to the same conflict over and over. They have been opportunistic, using their votes as tools. Now that I’ve said this, they may change their approach, but I’d humbly suggest reviewing people’s voting records not just for apparently faulty logic – which can be employed maliciously by scum or in genuine error by townspeople – or for a bad record of identifying Mafia (which is a characteristic shared by, frankly, everyone in the game) – but also for that sort of casual, opportunistic approach to voting.

-------------------

Now, to specifics.

I suspect brewha of being the Serial Killer. There, I said it. I know I said yesterday that I couldn’t think of a good way to identify the SK, but then I noticed something odd. In response to my observation that his vote seems to change a lot, he says:


My vote is Lakai, my vote only changed to save my own neck.


Did any of you see the Pearl Islands season of Survivor? The winner that season was Sandra Diaz-Twine, who twigged very early on to the realization that that show, while it appears to be a team game early on, is in fact a game with only one winner, and that getting voted off the show for any reason means losing. Her philosophy became, “Anyone but me.” Her vote was for sale, and she admitted it. She’d ally with anybody, vote against anybody, as long as the vote wasn’t against her.

That’s what brewha’s statement above made me think of. It’s essentially: “I’ll vote for anyone, as long as it keeps me alive.” I was going to post a response to this when he said it, because it struck me as a very odd thing to say. Ultimately, this game is a team game. A townie may not want to be lynched, but wouldn’t consider it the worst possible result; actually, if brewha is just a vanilla citizen, losing him would actually have been better than losing Lakai, who we have a bit of town-ish evidence about. Even the Mafia is playing a team game. Why would brewha be in such a panic about the possibility of being lynched that he would role claim the INSTANT he took the vote lead and change his vote twice to keep his own head off the block? Taking one for the team isn’t the optimal outcome, but it isn’t the worst possibly outcome, either.

But not everyone is playing a team game. One player has reason to avoid lynching at any and all costs.

So that’s my SK theory. Thoughts?

--------------

I am still confident that Pygmy Rugger is scum, and have become extremely suspicious of hocow in the last day or two, as well. I have reasons, which I will outline a bit later tonight, but if I don’t get to the dishes right now I will be lynched quite for real.

storyteller0910
04-25-2007, 07:23 PM
One other thing before dishes, though...

Folks, I say we take out Queuing today. He appears to be taking the role as the town leader since Blaster Master's demise. And he has been wrong. Either maliciously or mistakenly, he has been wrong. We've done nothing but lynch town folk and we've done so following his lead.

Regardless of his affiliation, the town would be better off without him.

Vote Queuing

(bolding mine)

Does this sentence make any sense to anyone unless my theory is right and brewha is the SK? At this stage of the game, lynching a townie just because he's made incorrect guesses would not be good for the town at all. We're getting down to the nitty gritty here - we can't afford to keep killing townspeople "regardless of [their] affiliation. It sounds, again, like all brewha cares about is keeping himself alive and getting rid of anyone who points suspicion, no matter how lightly, toward brewha.