Would you hand over your guns in a Katrina situation

[benny73]

I stumble on a video that lasted for several minutes at a pretty cool web site called LiveLeak.com. The video showed several people being interviewed on account of their experiences with having police drop by their homes and demand that they turn over their guns. Pretty scary stuff as they were left defenseless from the thugs roaming the area, right after hurricane Katrina hit.

One very elderly lady said that they were inside her house and all she did was start to show them her pistol when, suddenly, she said, one of them yelled, "She's got a gun!" The idiots tackled her and took her gun, and in the process they bruised her up pretty badly!

Seeing the video (and I'm sorry I don't have a link or know just where for you to look for it at the site) made me think that probably most of us would have done what all those folks did when the cops came and knocked on their doors and took their guns away. These folks were good, law-abiding citizens and the officers had no right trampling on their Constitutional rights like that. But do you think you'd be a sport and go along with cops taking your gun(s) away if, God forbid, some type of disaster on the scale of Katrina were to occur where you live?

[mks57]

The NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) has been pursuing the New Orleans government for this in the courts. So far, the New Orleans government has exhibited the classic attitude of "Screw the law, constitution and courts. We'll do what we like, when we like, and if you don't like it, tough shit".

That's also the problem with gun registration. Where did the police get their lists?

I used to think that the people who buried an SKS in their backyard were a bit paranoid, now I'm not so sure.

I feel no obligation to cooperate with the police if they are abusing their authority.

[benny73]

The NRA ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) has been pursuing the New Orleans government for this in the courts. So far, the New Orleans government has exhibited the classic attitude of "Screw the law, constitution and courts. We'll do what we like, when we like, and if you don't like it, tough shit".

That's also the problem with gun registration. Where did the police get their lists?

I used to think that the people who buried an SKS in their backyard were a bit paranoid, now I'm not so sure.

I feel no obligation to cooperate with the police if they are abusing their authority.

I like your feisty attitude. It would be great if everyone had it just so the government and cops get it in their heads that this kind of shit ain't going to fly!

Once they take away the guns, they've got us.

[Fear Itself]

That's also the problem with gun registration. Where did the police get their lists?That's also what wrong with joining the NRA; millions of gunowners in a database, just waiting for martial law and the jackbooted government to seize it and know right where all the guns are.

[Merijeek]

I wonder at what point this thread will become a rant about Hillary Clinton.

I guess we'll see.

-Joe

[Unregistered Bull]

That's also what wrong with joining the NRA; millions of gunowners in a database, just waiting for martial law and the jackbooted government to seize it and know right where all the guns are.

I highly doubt that most firearm(s) owners are NRA members.

[Fear Itself]

I highly doubt that most firearm(s) owners are NRA members.I never suggested that.

[Bobotheoptimist]

I wonder at what point this thread will become a rant about Hillary Clinton.Post number 5, apparently.

Would I hand over my guns? No. Would I hand over a gun or two? Probably. Do I hate this Rumsfeldesque method of answering questions? Yes.

Thankfully, I live in a state without registration. For them to have any idea how many guns I could possibly own, they'd have to collect the paper records of every FFL dealer in the state for the past 20 years, and then they'd only have a rough idea.
Sure it's a fairly safe bet that an NRA member and a CCW holder is going to have at least one, and I'm not going to initiate a shootout with armored stormtroopers (nor do I want to get shot myownself), but how thoroughly are they going to search my house/cars/yard? And in case of a developing emergency like Katrina, most of them aren't going to be neatly lined up in the pretty wood and glass cabinet.

Did New Orleans require registration?

[Czarcasm]

I highly doubt that most firearm(s) owners are NRA members.
No but most NRA members own firearms, which was the point of the statement.

[Odesio]

I wouldn't trust New Orleans police officers before the hurricane, or during the crisis, or afterwards, so no, I would not cooperate. Give them a few token guns and send them on their way.

Marc

[ParentalAdvisory]

If we're talking about a Katrina type situation, well what gun? It was stolen by the thugs and gangs! Atleast that's what I'd tell them.

[Debaser]

The NRA produced a short DVD about the Katrina gun confiscations. It's only about 15 minutes long, but it's a good watch. I passed my copy on to others to view and hopefully the word is getting out.

One interesting thing is that the authorities at first took the bizarre position of denying that they confiscated any guns at all. That only lasted for a few days since we all remember the video with the police saying right into the cameras that they were going to take all the guns away, legal and illegal.

At least the NRA is trying to take steps to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again. It's outragious to think that they police would take away your guns just when you need them the most.

[Kalhoun]

I wouldn't trust New Orleans police officers before the hurricane, or during the crisis, or afterwards, so no, I would not cooperate. Give them a few token guns and send them on their way.

Marc
What if you only owned one gun?

[Bobotheoptimist]

What if you only owned one gun?You didn't ask me, but... If I had only one handgun - "Damn officer, I sold that to my uncle in West Dakota. Wouldn't want a gun in the house with my kids! What are you thinking? Jeez..."

[villa]

Thanks a bunch, New Orleans. Not only thank you for taking a situation where you could not protect people and removing their ability to protect themselves. But also, thanks a whole bunch for making those of us who try to stay in the center on gun control look like utter idiots. With things like this happening, it gets pretty difficult to argue against the hard liners who maintain that any type of government control of firearms is the first step down the intended road of preventing all private ownership.

[Odesio]

What if you only owned one gun?

I'd claim it was blown away by the wind or something. On the other hand, truthfully, if I saw a group of police officers coming towards my home I probably wouldn't assume they wanted to take my firearm and wouldn't have taken steps to hide it.

Marc

[catsix]

Give up guns in a Katrina situation? I can't think of a time when I would need them more!

[Lightnin']

I've never been shy to vocalize just how much I dislike guns. I'll probably never have one of my own, and I don't completely understand why so many people feel they need guns for protection in normal life- during a disaster like Katrina, I can understand. I suppose it's my inner atomic holocaust survivor speaking. I guess I played too much Gamma World as a kid.

Anyway, as opposed to guns as I am, there's no way in hell that I would surrender my gun to anyone during a Katrina situation. A Katrina situation is the only reason I would have a gun in the first place.

Did they ever say why they were confiscating guns?

[benny73]

I've never been shy to vocalize just how much I dislike guns. I'll probably never have one of my own, and I don't completely understand why so many people feel they need guns for protection in normal life- during a disaster like Katrina, I can understand. I suppose it's my inner atomic holocaust survivor speaking. I guess I played too much Gamma World as a kid.

Anyway, as opposed to guns as I am, there's no way in hell that I would surrender my gun to anyone during a Katrina situation. A Katrina situation is the only reason I would have a gun in the first place.

Did they ever say why they were confiscating guns?

I once read where someone said, "I'd rather have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have one."

I didn't hear anything about the cops saying why they were taking them away. I'd just guess that a higher-up said the place would be safer. Heck, I don't know.

[RTFirefly]

My main reaction is, holy crap, the police who were so overwhelmed at the time of Katrina that they couldn't keep order in the Superdome and stuff, had time to knock on doors and ask people to give up their guns???

Forget gun-rights issues - this is more like writing parking tickets in the middle of a civil insurrection.

[Lizard]

My main reaction is, holy crap, the police who were so overwhelmed at the time of Katrina that they couldn't keep order in the Superdome and stuff, had time to knock on doors and ask people to give up their guns???

Of course, it could be said that one reason the cops couldn't keep order was all the well-armed citizenry running around shooting at each other, with bullets flying all over the neighborhood and into innocent bystanders.

It's funny I should be taking this tack, because I strongly support gun rights, I own four guns myself, and I am also in the camp that says I would never voluntarily surrender my guns to the police in a Katrina-type situation. (By that I mean, if they showed up without some type of warrant and demanded them, I wouldn't let them into the house and tell them to fuck off, before getting my ass kicked for my trouble.)

But I also think the OP is painting a very biased picture. I don't know all the incidents he/she is referring to, but why would a little old lady just "show her pistol" to a bunch of officers? The police are trained to react at the sight of a gun; it's their ass on the line, after all. From the way their reaction is described, it doesn't sound like she told them what she was doing. Were they supposed to wait and see if she was going to shoot at them or not? It's not as if elderly women have never been involved in police shootings. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html)

The problems with law enforcement in both New Orleans and Louisiana are well documented in the aftermath of Katrina. I think I can even recall hearing that a significant number of officers simply abandoned their jobs altogether. I think it's unfair to paint police in general with the same brush as the corrupt and incompetent police involved in Katrina.

[Sunrazor]

No. The Constitution says I can own guns.

Are we really having this discussion?

[Unregistered Bull]

No but most NRA members own firearms, which was the point of the statement.

He was talking about mass confiscation under martial law. It could be much more thoroughly done by utilizing government held records and databases and the records on file at gun shops than by utilizing only the NRA membership roles. It certainly could be started faster.

[Fear Itself]

He was talking about mass confiscation under martial law. It could be much more thoroughly done by utilizing government held records and databases and the records on file at gun shops than by utilizing only the NRA membership roles. It certainly could be started faster.But if gun rights advocates are successful in blocking registration, what door do you think the jackboots will kick down first?

[aruvqan]

they could kiss my ass. none of our guns is registered, nobody knows how many we have, and they can not search my property without a warrent, and they probably couldn't find more than one if they tried without destroying my property.

After the fact, they would get a lawsuit for abrogating my civil rights under the constitution. Nowhere does it say that the police can take away the guns unless I happen to be legally unable to own one [and last I checked I am not a felon nor am I mentally deficient.]

[Unregistered Bull]

But if gun rights advocates are successful in blocking registration, what door do you think the jackboots will kick down first?

BATFE knows who made it or who imported it; they know who wholesaled it; they know who retailed it; they know who too. If you bought it on paper, BATFE knows about it. Sure going after NRA is a possibility, but you will miss a lot IMO as the membership is minuscule to overall gun owners/purchasers.

[RTFirefly]

Of course, it could be said that one reason the cops couldn't keep order was all the well-armed citizenry running around shooting at each other, with bullets flying all over the neighborhood and into innocent bystanders. Yeah, whatever.

Not saying that the Katrina survivors were all well-behaved, but the reports of New Orleans that week as some sort of dangerous, lawless zone - haven't they long since been debunked?

[Steve MB]

The problems with law enforcement in both New Orleans and Louisiana are well documented in the aftermath of Katrina. I think I can even recall hearing that a significant number of officers simply abandoned their jobs altogether.
My recollection is that a significant number of them never existed in the first place.

[E-Sabbath]

So, since the law enforcement were abandoning their posts, we should let them confiscate our guns?

Seriously, what the heck? Lizard, that post doesn't make sense.

[Lizard]

So, since the law enforcement were abandoning their posts, we should let them confiscate our guns?

Seriously, what the heck? Lizard, that post doesn't make sense.

No, what you posted doesn't make sense, because it's not what I was saying. What I concluded was that local law-enforcement in the New Orleans area was especially bad after Katrina, any way you want to measure it. It was variously corrupt/incompetent/poorly led/poorly organized/undermanned, or possibly any combination of those things. But the OP asked about cooperating with police confiscating weapons where I live if a natural disaster like Katrina hit. My point was that however the police performed after Katrina is not a fair way to measure other law-enforcement organizations. Other police departments in other big cities might've done a hell of a lot better job, so saying something is or is not a good idea based on the conduct of the New Orleans police is not apt.

[E-Sabbath]

So... Because the police are efficient and good at their jobs, we should let them confiscate our guns.

But, if police are efficient and good at their jobs, they won't perform illegal acts like confiscating guns.

[sh0rtbus56]

no. i would refuse them entrance into my home, and fire on them if they proceeded to enter without warrant or cause.

[ParentalAdvisory]

no. i would refuse them entrance into my home, and fire on them if they proceeded to enter without warrant or cause.

The guts we have on the internet. :p

[Lizard]

So... Because the police are efficient and good at their jobs, we should let them confiscate our guns.

But, if police are efficient and good at their jobs, they won't perform illegal acts like confiscating guns.

Did you take a course in writing straw men or something? ALL I said was:
... something is or is not a good idea based on the conduct of the New Orleans police is not apt.
I wasn't in N.O. after Katrina; I don't know if confiscating guns makes sense in general in that situation or not. But just because the N.O. police did not always act professionally does not itself make their actions illegal. It's easy to criticize in hindsight the job someone else did, when you were never in that situation yourself.

[E-Sabbath]

So, what _are_ you saying? Allowing the police to do illegal things is never a good idea. Relying on the police to do their jobs appropriately is never a good idea, either. Small town cops have their own issues, and big city cops have their own prejudices.
And why should cops be armed anyhow? The Brits do fine without guns.

[Sleel]

But I also think the OP is painting a very biased picture. I don't know all the incidents he/she is referring to, but why would a little old lady just "show her pistol" to a bunch of officers? The police are trained to react at the sight of a gun; it's their ass on the line, after all. From the way their reaction is described, it doesn't sound like she told them what she was doing. Were they supposed to wait and see if she was going to shoot at them or not? It's not as if elderly women have never been involved in police shootings. (http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html)

If you read this thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=397241) you'd get some follow-up to that. It's pretty clear at this point that the police screwed up and made up some back story to justify the mistake. Not a really convincing case for the police needing to be cautious around everyone.