Backseat Hitmen (Off limits to living Mafia players) [Archive]

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

03-27-2007, 10:00 AM

With potentially 37 players and new roles, it is going to be a very different game.

I'm quoting the GM's roles summary (including the ambiguity). Not sure if he will share exactly what is and isn't assigned with either this thread or the game...

Possible roles NOT all of which are being used.

Mafia-these are the bad guys. There may be as many as 10 of them. They can talk to each other, but only at night. During the day they pass themselves off as townies. They vote to kill one person a night, but may vote no kill.

Godfather- The head mafia member. In case of a tie in the night kill vote the Godfather decides. Godfather shows up as a regular townie if investigated, will survive being targeted for night kill by the Vigilante.

The Miller- The miller is a role blocker, they select a person each night to stop from using their role assignment. The Miller is pro town, but will show up as scum if investigated. There can be up to 2 millers

Cops - there are 2 kinds of cop, detective and beat cop. Detectives are always right when they investigate, beat cops are only right 50% of the time. Cops cannot talk outside of the game. There can be up to 3 cops.

Serial Killer - anti town AND anti mafia player, may kill each night, but does not have to. SK wins if they are still alive at endgame.

Vigilante - pro town player who selects one person to kill each night. The vigilante must kill every night in search of the serial killer.
If the vigilante kills the serial killer the Vigilante becomes an ordinary citizen and a confirmed townie. If the SK is lynched or Mob Killed, the Vigilante becomes a citizen but does not get public confirmation of town status.

Masons - Ordinary citizens, but they each know the identity of the others. They may not speak outside of the game. There may be up to 6 masons.

The Doctor - May chose one person each night to save from being night killed. If investigated they show up as the Doctor.

Guardian Angel- A one shot deal. May chose 2 people to protect on a single night, but can only use this ability once. If investigated shows up as an Ordinary Citizen.

Because this game is SO big, I figure it will be confusing to have anything more complicated. So if you don't see it on the list it isn't in the game.

Nava

03-27-2007, 10:05 AM

Hey, Win, aren't you in on the game? SHOO!

Just subscribing so I can find it more easily :) The last byte of my biological HDD was used up by Bolzano's Theorem in '94.

jsgoddess

03-27-2007, 10:17 AM

I hope the GM enforces the no-lurking rule. That made the end of the first game very hard.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

03-27-2007, 10:22 AM

The Serial Killer and Vigilante roles seem a bit odd as described. The SK doesn't even have to kill, while the Vigilante has to kill every night.

fruitbat

03-27-2007, 10:32 AM

As a veteran werewolf player I find this rule set to be interesting. I have played games with just about every combination of roles available. Some thoughts on the roles:

Vigilante: His goal is to kill the SK, but in my experience finding the SK specifically is damn near impossible, so his best strategy is to just try to kill Mafia. Generally people with power roles act differently than they do as normal villagers, so that applies to the Mafia as well as the SK. Unfortunately he could also hit the seers. Given the Godfather's immunity from Vigilante night kills I would come out if I took a shot at someone and they did not die, on the presumption that I likely shot at the Godfather.

Serial Killer - This role is great fun, but they very rarely win. In twenty or so games with an SK we have only had one win. If you act too villagery you get killed by wolves, if you act too wolfy you get lynched. It is a really tough balance.

Beat Cop - This is basically a useless seer. It gives the Mafia a good opportunity to fake seer because they don't even have to be right to succeed. At best this role is neutral to the village.

Doctor - The doctor role will die as it is currently constructed as soon as someone realizes the hole in the rules. In this set up I come out day one as the seer and start giving my peeks. The doctor protects me. From there the information is out in the open and it is just a matter of luck as to how long the doctor stays alive. As a wolf this is incredibly frustrating because there are no doctor 'tells' to look for. For that reason we have modified it to "the doctor cannot protect the same person two nights in a row".

NAF1138

03-27-2007, 03:19 PM

To the experienced players, this is my first attempt at a game set up, how do y'all think it look so far? Not all the roles are being used, but I was attempting to get a balance and instill a bit of paranoia. Whatcha think?

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

03-27-2007, 04:37 PM

NAF1138

03-27-2007, 04:44 PM

I think the aspect of it being unknown which roles are in the game and which aren't will certainly keep things interesting. It seems possible that it will be too chaotic for good strategy, but we'll have to see.

That's my fear, I should have kept the player count smaller. But hindsight is 20/20 and all that.

One And Only Wanderers

03-28-2007, 12:50 PM

well..... that was fun....

question is, do i still fill out my custom spreadsheet, or just read along and not analyse...

I'm sure another game will be along in a fiscal quarter or two...

One And Only Wanderers

03-28-2007, 01:00 PM

Of course.

*does the obligatory two-eyes to two-eyes finger point*

I see that we have the earliest vestiges of theorizing going on, and in my limited experience with this game, players who provide early breakdowns tend to have some sort of special role the rest of us just don't have... hmmm.

earliest scum tell ever. combines trying to out a power role with establishing vanilla townieness.

dnooman

03-28-2007, 09:03 PM

Well, no surprise, I was killed.

IMO the addition of the Millers seemed to kind of push the envelope as far as having a good balance and keeping things clear. But YMMV of course.

I think that any of the players from the previous game that survive several days have a higher possibility of having a special role. The SK and Mafia want the more experienced and insightful players dead.

Captain Carrot

03-28-2007, 09:39 PM

Waaaahhhh! Given that the thread is already 8 pages, I'm not even going to try to follow it.

dnooman

03-28-2007, 10:53 PM

The masons, if there are any, and if they learned anything from the previous game, will vote for at least one other mason at some point. Numerous people will rely on Rysto's spreadsheet for info. People are lazy, and this thread is gonna be one hell of a whopper. If masons vote for each other, they are more easily hidden in such a matrix if they throw a few distraction votes in there.

This can only help the town. I don't think I'll postulate any anti-town strategies here, the temptation to cheat is too great for some people to avoid. Besides, I'm rooting for the town :D.

NAF1138

03-28-2007, 11:08 PM

IMO the addition of the Millers seemed to kind of push the envelope as far as having a good balance and keeping things clear. But YMMV of course.

I really wanted to try a nice big game, but I think I may have reached a bit too far. If this game is a success (and I will hate myself if I killed the mafia games on the boards) I might try again with a much smaller game.. Fewer people will be able to play, but they may have more fun.

But we will see. I set it up in a way that (I hope) the numbers are going to drop to manageable sizes fairly quickly, and I put a lot of thought into making it balanced. So we shall see.

dnooman

03-28-2007, 11:26 PM

I really wanted to try a nice big game, but I think I may have reached a bit too far. If this game is a success (and I will hate myself if I killed the mafia games on the boards) I might try again with a much smaller game.. Fewer people will be able to play, but they may have more fun.

But we will see. I set it up in a way that (I hope) the numbers are going to drop to manageable sizes fairly quickly, and I put a lot of thought into making it balanced. So we shall see.
You may have done really well, and you certainly put a lot of thought into this. I hope you don't think I was being disparaging, I admire your ambition.

With so many people flying blind, there will be lots of kills that people might not have wanted to happen (being the killers), potentially. The high kill rate may be a good way of including a lot of people, at least to some degree. In the last game the Wolves knew that they could kill anyone besides themselves without there being a real penalty. That has changed in this game, possibly for the better, we'll see.

There is no way that you killed the idea of such a thread on this board, you should be applauded IMO for making it more fresh, and keeping the idea going. I just hope the Mods don't drop the hammer on this great new trend.

Just because I was slightly confused by an element of your game doesn't mean it was a bad idea at all. It's more than likely that a game of even slightly increased complexity, is too much for my tiny brain to handle. You're doing a great job. I did not mean to detract from that at all.

dnooman

03-28-2007, 11:42 PM

I think that Fern Forrest is not long for this game. She posted a mini-festo, and then voted for sturmhauke based on the fact that I, (a confirmed townie) decided to have a drink with him.

Guilty or not, I think She/He dies soon.

NAF1138

03-28-2007, 11:43 PM

You may have done really well, and you certainly put a lot of thought into this. I hope you don't think I was being disparaging, I admire your ambition.

With so many people flying blind, there will be lots of kills that people might not have wanted to happen (being the killers), potentially. The high kill rate may be a good way of including a lot of people, at least to some degree. In the last game the Wolves knew that they could kill anyone besides themselves without there being a real penalty. That has changed in this game, possibly for the better, we'll see.

There is no way that you killed the idea of such a thread on this board, you should be applauded IMO for making it more fresh, and keeping the idea going. I just hope the Mods don't drop the hammer on this great new trend.

Just because I was slightly confused by an element of your game doesn't mean it was a bad idea at all. It's more than likely that a game of even slightly increased complexity, is too much for my tiny brain to handle. You're doing a great job. I did not mean to detract from that at all.

Sorry if I came across defensive. I took your quote as a legitimate criticism and a fair one. I am just a tad worried because the game is really big, but I am plagued by self doubt at all times. That doesn't have anything to do with you.

It is fun to watch it unfold. I want to share inside knowladge but I don't trust the other gamers enough. I will say that I am VERY impressed by some of the posters and their anylitical skills.

dnooman

03-28-2007, 11:59 PM

Sorry if I came across defensive. I took your quote as a legitimate criticism, I am just a tad worried because the game is really big, but I am plagued by self doubt at all times. That doesn't have anything to do with you.

It is fun to watch it unfold. I want to share inside knowladge but I don't trust the other gamers enough. I will say that I am VERY impressed by some of the posters and their anylitical skills.
You did not come across as being defensive at all. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming across as offensive.

You just gave away a lot of info, I hope that people don't cheat and read this thread. Actually, having a concurrent thread is a really bad idea in retrospect. NAF just stated (practically) that there have been astute observations in the main thread as of now. As huge as this game is, such a revelation is key. This means that either assumptions were made about the 1st night's kill that were accurate, or that role-having players have already been accused, be they major or minor roles.

The board rules do not allow for the type of thread-access restriction that is necessary for such a thread to be active, and not a potential source of inside information.

The idea of such a thread is a great one, it's just hard to make it work well on a site that allows a side-thread that's concurrent with the active thread.

Hopefully I'm being paranoid, and there is no outsider knowledge of this thread. If I were to bet my life on it though, I would vote that current players are reading this thread.

NAF1138

03-29-2007, 12:16 AM

You did not come across as being defensive at all. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming across as offensive.

You just gave away a lot of info, I hope that people don't cheat and read this thread. Actually, having a concurrent thread is a really bad idea in retrospect. NAF just stated (practically) that there have been astute observations in the main thread as of now. As huge as this game is, such a revelation is key. This means that either assumptions were made about the 1st night's kill that were accurate, or that role-having players have already been accused, be they major or minor roles.

The board rules do not allow for the type of thread-access restriction that is necessary for such a thread to be active, and not a potential source of inside information.

The idea of such a thread is a great one, it's just hard to make it work well on a site that allows a side-thread that's concurrent with the active thread.

Hopefully I'm being paranoid, and there is no outsider knowledge of this thread. If I were to bet my life on it though, I would vote that current players are reading this thread.

Well, to be fair...while there have been a fair amount of asstute observations, I think it is about as good as if they were all still random. There have been just as many really bad ones. It was actually the breakdown of probability making the case for the usefullness of the beat cop that really impressed me. People are putting a lot more thought and work into playing this game than I would have.

dnooman

03-29-2007, 12:38 AM

I was gonna post a thread condemning Fern Forrest's opinions, but then I remembered that she was on my "soon to die" list. If she's not, that certainly says a lot doesn't it?

The Understander

03-29-2007, 11:51 AM

earliest scum tell ever. combines trying to out a power role with establishing vanilla townieness.

Why does everyone think I was trying to out the good guys there?

Oh well, live and learn. Still, I just wanted to get people thinking about who was whom so that we don't make mistakes. I'm vanilla, I'm no big loss, and even being down 4-0 now eyes turn toward who killed me. Not saying I'm good at this at all, but that was the basic reasoning behind the move--that. I should have said scum instead. Stupid 20/20 hindsight.

The Understander

03-29-2007, 12:40 PM

Oh, and storyteller-- J'accuse!

:p

panamajack

03-30-2007, 01:18 PM

Does anyone besides me think that Autolycus is going to get bumped off during the night? He seems to be 'probable citizen, but not helping them' and possibly just annoying people in the process. The town doesn't seem to want to expend effort on him, and the Mafia probably figure he isn't worth going after either, as he hasn't tried to influence anyone yet. The SK or Vigilante might go after him since Autolycus appears to be a 'safe' kill.

Unless he is the SK, which is conceivable (but I suspect he doesn't have a major role, which is why he created one for himself).

It is interesting in this game that the Vigilante is in a tough position early on. They don't really know who is who, and they run the risk of killing a power player without any hope of them defending themselves. This may be why going for a likely citizen is better than a serious screw-up after a random choice. Later on, the Vig can act to go after suspected mafia at least when the votes are split.

Even more intriguing is what happens if the Vig gets killed early on. The SK then becomes a moderately valuable resource for the town, but they have to hope the Mafia manages to kill the SK (or they get lynched by accident), which will be tough since there aren't any easy tells - the SK doesn't have any inside information they can accidentally spill.

The Understander

03-30-2007, 04:05 PM

Does anyone besides me think that Autolycus is going to get bumped off during the night?

Nope... more like to be lynched. If he's not mafia, he's too valuable a diversion to the town to whack so soon. I'd expect them to go for storyteller if my thoughts about him being mafia are incorrect. Otherwise, crapshoot on who gets it.

CaerieD

03-30-2007, 05:45 PM

Well, that didn't last too long. My money's riding on it having been the Vigilante who got me, too. I don't know how they're going to manage, being one Mason down with no Detective and not having gotten a single member of the Mafia yet.

I'm just happy I finally get to read this thread.

NAF1138

03-30-2007, 06:16 PM

Sorry you had to go so soon CaerieD, I thought you were doing a great job as the detective. If you had made it one more night you could have probably given them enough info for a lock on the win.

CaerieD

03-30-2007, 06:28 PM

Thanks, NAF1138! But towards the end of the first day, I'd already figured I was toast because of attention getting drawn to me. I wish I could have stuck around just one more day, because I do think it would have made a big difference. The way I left it, though, I'm not too sure.

dnooman

03-31-2007, 12:30 AM

I think that chrisk's idea got CaerieD killed by the mafia. I'm not sure if that was chrisk's intention yet.

I'm pretty darn sure that Autolycus is vanilla town, otherwise he's being way too dangerous with his posting style.

Fern Forrest really strikes me as being one of the bad guys, not quite sure why, but then again I've only been skimming the thread.

Rysto is town I think, possibly with a town role, perhaps mason.

I'm willing to bet that at least one of the mafia was a player in the werewolf game as well.

*off topic
Being the cop is not always easy. After the first game started, I signed up on mafiascum.net for a game and was dealt the role of cop. There were only 7 players, 2 mafia, a cop, a doc, and three townies. Votes started flying on day 1 based on nothing, as always happens. I tossed out a vote for a guy that hadn't said much (a lurker vote, but it hadn't really been that long since he'd posted) just to get things moving.

One of the other posters decides that I'm scum, and makes it his mission to make everyone else think so too. We lynched a townie on day 1 :(, and the mafia killed the Doc on night 1 :mad:.

I investigated the guy that was riding me like a stolen horse, and guess what, he's scum. Day two starts and he points the finger at me again, so I had to role claim, and luckily I nailed a scum. Obviously he claims that I'm lying, mostly because the town is in a LyLo (lynch (correctly) or lose) situation. All I have to go on is my word, and nobody trust me, mostly because I was less than adept in my posts.

So, if the town decides I'm lying, we lose, if not we have a slim chance of winning because I die the next night anyways. This is all on DAY TWO!! Huge games may be difficult to some degree, but really small ones can go downhill really fast.

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 12:49 AM

dnooman - Yeah, the cop role is very difficult. I messed up by not obfuscating my breadcrumbs well enough, though I'm not sure it was the Mafia that got me, since I think I made myself look like scum to the Vigilante rather than a power role to the Mafia. That fits with what I picked up from my investigations on the two nights I got to investigate, at any rate. I'd realized I'd messed up before they lynched Enfant Terrible, but things moved so fast there wasn't time to do damage control.

Aside from the two roles I confirmed, I think that Rysto is probably townie, possibly a power role.

I'm pretty sure that MadTheSwine is scum. He gave me a vibe in that direction from the start, but I didn't last long enough to check it out further.

dnooman

03-31-2007, 12:56 AM

Aside from the two roles I confirmed, I think that Rysto is probably townie, possibly a power role.
What were those again? Mennochio was one right?

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 12:59 AM

What were those again? Mennochio was one right?

I'm trying to be cagey in case people from the game are lurking in here. If I get NAF1138's permission, I'll happily explain what I learned from my investigations and what it makes me think of the game.

dnooman

03-31-2007, 04:30 AM

I'm trying to be cagey in case people from the game are lurking in here. If I get NAF1138's permission, I'll happily explain what I learned from my investigations and what it makes me think of the game.
Oh, duh. I thought that it was already stated explicitly somewhere in the thread and I just missed it. By all means, keep it a secret until it's moot. I would never ask for someone to divulge secret info, especially if it could affect the game in progress.

I'm curious though.

One And Only Wanderers

03-31-2007, 04:35 AM

looking really bad for town isn't it.

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 08:27 AM

dnooman - Believe me, it's killing me to sit on the two confirmations I have, but my worry is someone cheating purposefully by coming in here now that the Detective can speak "freely." The temptation for that would be pretty overpowering!

It doesn't look too good for the town now. I can see a few good players talking a little too openly about strategizing with the Vigilante and SK, too, which concerns me. Chances are good somebody in that group is Mafia and the others are foolishly outing themselves as power roles. Meanwhile, not a single Mafioso has died.

Ogre

03-31-2007, 11:41 AM

*floats through thread on gossamer wings made of righteous fury and vengeance*

Wait. Wrong gear. That's the Avenging Angel's getup.

The Understander

03-31-2007, 11:48 AM

*floats through thread on gossamer wings made of righteous fury and vengeance*

Wait. Wrong gear. That's the Avenging Angel's getup.

Yeah, and besides, if anyone deserves a little fury and vengeance it's me. Get in line. :p

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 11:55 AM

Yeah, and besides, if anyone deserves a little fury and vengeance it's me. Get in line. :p

No kidding! I'd look pretty closely at the people who jumped on the bandwagon against you, if I was still in the game. I'd be willing to bet at least half of them were Mafia.

On the plus side, apparently we have nachos in here.

The Understander

03-31-2007, 12:03 PM

No kidding! I'd look pretty closely at the people who jumped on the bandwagon against you, if I was still in the game. I'd be willing to bet at least half of them were Mafia.

On the plus side, apparently we have nachos in here.

Revenge is a dish best served with hot cheese and jalapenos.

Wanna know what's really awful? I was writing a fairly robust defense the night before it all went down. But the system timed out. At the time, Autolycus was way ahead in the voting, so I think: "Eh, it's probably safe to wait."

:smack:

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 12:08 PM

Oh, that hurts. I did my best to try to steer the suspicion away from you once it became clear that there was a big push from certain parties to see you gone, but there was no turning back that tide. What you posted shortly after your lynching was a pretty good defense, too.

So does the hot cheese/jalapeño revenge involve eating it, or dripping it onto people? Because it kind of sounds like some sort of bizarre torture method.

NAF1138

03-31-2007, 12:15 PM

ok, I don't know how many folks who would like to play are reading this thread, but I need a sub.

One of the players feels that they don't have enough time to devote to the game.

If anyone wants to sub in, PM me. Fist come first served.

The Understander

03-31-2007, 01:31 PM

One And Only Wanderers

03-31-2007, 01:58 PM

sub me! i'm sure a zombie wondering round town wouldn't be at all suspicious ;)

what, No, you say? ....

cowgirl

03-31-2007, 01:58 PM

Hi guys, thanks for saving some nachos for me. Here, I brought the margaritas. Who's in?

Sorry I distrusted you, CaerieD, and voted to lynch you, ET. I'm really bad at this game, it seems.

I think the post that made me look suspicious was the one where I asked what each role has to gain by posting analysis. It was an honest question - and upon reflection, I wouldn't have posted it if I had a power role.

But a couple of people have said I didn't post much. Honestly, I spent the whole morning catching up with the thread; posted my response (which was the ninth vote for friend ET) and the day was over. It wasn't humanly possible for me to post more than I did! I'm half glad I'm out because now I can have my life back.

CaerieD

03-31-2007, 02:17 PM

No hard feelings, cowgirl. Like I said in this thread earlier, I think my attempts to leave breadcrumbs made me come up as scum on a few people's radar, which is why I think I was a VIG/SK kill rather than Mafia.

Considering how intense this game is this time around, I was kind of relieved to get eliminated, too. I wish I could have managed just one more day since I think I could have cinched a townie win if I'd had a little more time, but I wasn't too upset. The first day was absolutely crazy and I got nothing done all morning just trying to keep up.

NAF1138

03-31-2007, 03:05 PM

sub me! i'm sure a zombie wondering round town wouldn't be at all suspicious ;)

what, No, you say? ....
Hey you want back in? Its yours if you are serious.

Nava

04-02-2007, 12:09 PM

Hell cowgirl, that thread is some sort of avalanche (e-avalanche? e-valanche?). I get dizzy when I look at it!

CaerieD

04-02-2007, 04:28 PM

I find it quite interesting that Winston Smith is pushing so hard for the day to move on, especially after the fiasco of the first lynching. I'm surprised more people aren't suspicious of him. Queuing seems overly aggressive about lynching Blaster Master on fairly flimsy evidence. The biggest "clue" against Blaster would be that I refused to vote with him against Enfant.

Man, watching this from the safety of this thread makes it increasingly obvious who is with the Mafia and who isn't. I think one of the things that's going to screw the townies up is that it looks like the Mafia are accusing each other and voting against one another, making it harder to out them by watching voting patterns. There are just too many shifting alliances going on.

NAF1138

04-02-2007, 04:36 PM

One And Only Wanderers

04-02-2007, 04:42 PM

Hey you want back in? Its yours if you are serious.

lol just saw this. I think JSexton will do a better job :)

CaerieD

04-02-2007, 04:47 PM

I was wondering if it is easier to make calls when you are not in the game. To me the mafia are being blindingly obvious with one or two exceptions. But I don't know if they really are or not. Who do you think is in the mob?

My top choices for mob would be Queuing, Gadarene, Pleonast, MadTheSwine, and Winston Smith. There's been some bickering and accusations between them, but I think it's all been for show. glee has pinged on my radar, too. If I was in there now, I'd target Queuing. Strong player, highly suspicious, and it seems like he was prepared beforehand to try to discredit my breadcrumbs.

Blaster Master has made similar mistakes to what I did and if he doesn't get lynched I'm almost positive he'll be offed in the night. He's just giving away too much information without trying to obfuscate. I know exactly how tempting that is!

Some of them seem terribly obvious to me and I have to wonder if it's just wishful thinking on my part or if being embroiled in the middle of it all is making it hard for them to be rational.

For a while there, I was wondering if you'd gotten creative and snuck in the secret role of "Village Idiot" for Autolycus, a player who has the goal of getting killed.

NAF1138

04-02-2007, 04:55 PM

I almost did some stuff like that. I was going to put in a character that had a "quirk", but no powers. But that sort of thing only works if all the roles are secret, and I decided early on that they shouldn't be. I also almost put in the description the character of the "informant" who would pretend to be with the mafia and have access to the mafia boards and night votes, but would be working for the town.

I wouldn't have actually used the character, but I figured it would be good for the paranoia, make the mafia a little less sure of themselves. Then right before I clicked to post I decided it would make things too confusing. But maybe for next time.

CaerieD

04-02-2007, 05:00 PM

Ooh, I like the idea of the Informant. I think that'd be a good one for a future game, now that people are getting some experience with a game that has so many different roles in it. It's always nice to spread the paranoia! For larger games like this one, "Crazy Veteran" and types along those lines might be interesting, too; someone who seems to be a perfectly ordinary Citizen, until they're killed and end up taking someone out with them.

NAF1138

04-02-2007, 05:09 PM

yeah. And I was thinking make all the roles secret. No info but what the players find out when people die. This allows for cool false role claims.

chrisk

04-02-2007, 05:52 PM

Hmm... I must admit, I've been checking every so often to see when my replacement would really get into the game.

Definitely came out strutting a bit cocky, huh? Takin' down names and everything.

NAF1138

04-02-2007, 06:01 PM

Hmm... I must admit, I've been checking every so often to see when my replacement would really get into the game.

Definitely came out strutting a bit cocky, huh? Takin' down names and everything.

Yeah, JSexton is nothing if not an entertaining player.

CaerieD

04-02-2007, 07:27 PM

Looks like Blaster Master is going to be getting himself lynched real soon here. Should be interesting to see if he makes some sort of role claim and what the response is if so, since he's getting pegged as the SK now. I'll be particularly interested in the results of the night, though, as the game seems to be shifting gears a bit.

chrisk - If it turns out you were the Godfather and handed that role over to JSexton, I'm going to laugh and laugh. :D

One And Only Wanderers

04-03-2007, 02:50 AM

Question Naf,

If SK/Mafia target the same person, and that person is doc protected, do they still die as 2 kills > 1 save? what if the doc and the angel were on them?

chrisk

04-03-2007, 05:30 AM

Question Naf,

If SK/Mafia target the same person, and that person is doc protected, do they still die as 2 kills > 1 save? what if the doc and the angel were on them?

Our good mod has final ruling, but I interpreted that as a distinction between doc and angel powers.

If the angel uses up his mojo and saves someone, they are SAFE, no matter how many bullets come at them in the night. (This presumably applies equally well if the doc picks that person too.)

When the doc heals someone of a night, that's good for 1 person trying to kill them, no more.

Nava

04-03-2007, 07:49 AM

Either Auto is trying to run for the Winston Smith Award or he's one of the lone players...

Methinks. I could rationalize why I think that way but I don't wanna, and since I'm not playing, I don't hafta!

CaerieD

04-03-2007, 09:38 AM

Either the our vanilla townies are going to finally start a good push against the Mafia or they're going to get completely creamed in the next round. The problem I see is that it appears to be that a few players are setting up a false dichotomy. The Mafia is willing to lose a player if they have to, to give credibility to the rest of them, and that looks like exactly what they're doing. "Lynch me or so-and-so. If one of us is Mafia, you'll know the other isn't!" Er...no.

NAF1138

04-03-2007, 09:54 AM

Question Naf,

If SK/Mafia target the same person, and that person is doc protected, do they still die as 2 kills > 1 save? what if the doc and the angel were on them?

You are correct. 2 Kills 1 save, they die. I think this is really unlikely, but it could happen. Doc and Angel they would live. If the Angel used both of his protects on the same person they would live even if mafia, SK and Vig all targeted the same person.

NAF1138

04-03-2007, 09:55 AM

Our good mod has final ruling, but I interpreted that as a distinction between doc and angel powers.

If the angel uses up his mojo and saves someone, they are SAFE, no matter how many bullets come at them in the night. (This presumably applies equally well if the doc picks that person too.)

When the doc heals someone of a night, that's good for 1 person trying to kill them, no more.

This is basically correct.

cowgirl

04-03-2007, 01:39 PM

This game is getting quite exciting. I might even join up at mafiascum.net ... of course, I would need to clear my schedule of my job and my social life first. It's just like politics, but with killing! No wonder it's so popular on this board.

What the heck is up with zuma's obstinate refusal to acknowledge the two-pronged Blaster Master kill plan?

I can't wait until tomorrow! Go Town!

cowgirl

04-03-2007, 01:48 PM

This all moves very quickly.

I missed the chance to edit so I posted again to repeat this great post

I think we should discuss Blaster Master's point. What do we do if there are only two kills tonight, and neither of them are zuma or Gadarene?

I, for one, plan on crying.

--FCODwhich made me giggle with sympathy for my bovine brother.

But after I posted that I went and refreshed and, wouldn't you know it, zuma is a Mason.there is definitely a need for crying.

It's even hard to keep up with this game as a spectator!

CaerieD

04-03-2007, 01:50 PM

cowgirl - Yeah, as disappointed as I am that I couldn't do more to help the town, I'm relieved to not have to try to keep up with that thread except for my own entertainment now. I have to wonder how many of them are managing to eat normal meals and remember to sleep.

It has got me thinking on how entertaining it would be if every thread was able to hold votes on which posters to lynch and permanently remove from the discussion, though.

jsgoddess

04-03-2007, 01:59 PM

Holy mackerel. I just tried to glance at that thread to see how it was going and... holy mackerel.

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 10:15 AM

:smack:

It's almost funny this is going so badly. I'm not even playing the game and I'd thought Gadarene was Mafia, though I would have gone for Queuing first. I don't know whether to congratulate the Mafia players on a game well played so far, or hang my head in shame.

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 10:15 AM

Man, apparently I'm just spectacularly bad at this game. :)

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 10:17 AM

Man, apparently I'm just spectacularly bad at this game. :)

I wouldn't say that. More likely, Mafia players were orchestrating things so that they could then say, "See? Gadarene was a citizen, so I must be one, too!" I felt pretty dumb after I got killed on the second night, though, so you have my sympathy.

At least we've got the nachos here and you don't have to strain yourself keeping up with the game!

ETA: Actually, looking at it now, I'm all the more convinced that Queuing is scum and was setting Gadarene up. If Queuing got lynched and was revealed to be scum, then Gadarene would be suspected next, and so an extra townie would still get offed. If Gadarene got lynched, then Queuing is no longer suspected. Now Queuing is safe and BM is obligated to leave him alone. Bah.

Nava

04-04-2007, 10:21 AM

*hands Gadarene the nachos*

Wonder which is the longest SDMB thread ever. That one sure looks like a serious competitor from where I'm sitting. And to post in it anything coherent you actually have to keep up!

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 10:26 AM

I'd be stunned if Queuing was scum, honestly. Like I said in the thread (what? you didn't read the whole thing?), in my opinion he and I were reasoning too much alike for him plausibly to be playing a role.

Call me crazy---and I don't know why no one's stepped up and counter-claimed---but Blaster Master, zuma, Pleonast, storyteller0910, sturmhauke, and glee still leave a really bad taste in my mouth.

The first two, at any rate, have just been unseemingly aggressive...and were way, way too convinced that I was scum when I, y'know, actually wasn't. (And I was playing the whole damn game in absolutely straightforward fashion! That's what really cracks me up.) Anyway, hopefully their uppance will come.

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 10:37 AM

Well, I still can't talk entirely freely about all of my suspicions and thoughts, since I had two nights to investigate and never made a role claim. As soon as somebody I investigated gets killed, I'll be able to talk freely about at least one player. :D

The Understander

04-04-2007, 11:10 AM

They really should have taken out storyteller .
Then again, I'm probably wrong-o incorrect-o too on that one given Our Town's disturbing tendency to execute the innocent while electing mafia on the town council...
Ughhhhhhh.... what a rush.

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 12:27 PM

From where does your suspicion of storyteller stem, ET?

The Understander

04-04-2007, 01:27 PM

From where does your suspicion of storyteller stem, ET?

Well, as he himself pointed out, he started the movement to kill me. While for most players that's just part of the game, since I knew 100% that I was town, that pinged my spider-sense right away.

His apology to me also seemed a bit too apologetic, if you know what I mean--like he just was taking pains for people to know that he was not trying to lynch an innocent. Protest too much, yada yada.

Add to that the fact that he's been awfully quiet once the town splintered into a total catastrophuck--I can almost picture him smoking a victory cigar now as the town lynches yet another innocent--where's all the analysis and help when it's really needed?

Things that make you go hmmm....

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 03:28 PM

Add to that the fact that he's been awfully quiet once the town splintered into a total catastrophuck--I can almost picture him smoking a victory cigar now as the town lynches yet another innocent--where's all the analysis and help when it's really needed?

Excellent point, that.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

04-04-2007, 04:00 PM

All I've gotta say is that there is no fucking way I'm reading through what has transpired since Thursday.

Jesus H. Christ

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 04:05 PM

At this point, I think the best way to sum it up is, "And then they all went insane."

It's like some sort of social experimental gone horribly, horribly wrong.

chrisk

04-04-2007, 04:24 PM

At this point, I think the best way to sum it up is, "And then they all went insane."

It's like some sort of social experimental gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Hmm... should I feel very glad that I bailed out? :D (Or guilty that my antics might have helped FUBAR everything?)

cowgirl

04-04-2007, 06:23 PM

It's like some sort of social experimental gone horribly, horribly wrong.
It's like a car accident. I can't stop refreshing the thread.

When will this night end???

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 06:37 PM

Hopefully soon, cowgirl! By the time this night does end, though, I think special care packages will be needed for the incoming dead, so that they can nurse themselves back to sanity. I can't believe this is only the third night. Yeesh. Are any of them going to be able to use full sentences by the end of it, or is it just going to be a lot of monkeyish hoots and keyboard banging?

chrisk

04-04-2007, 07:13 PM

Night is over.

And... is OAOW dead or not? He was listed dead on the list of REMAINING players, which looks a little weird on the face of it.

The Understander

04-04-2007, 07:15 PM

Plus NAF fingered a Mason as Mafia if I'm reading the thread correctly--else why'd nesta be leaving the Masonic lodge? Hee.

cowgirl

04-04-2007, 07:15 PM

Eesh. Welcome Winston and nesta. Here, this batch of nachos is fresh from the oven. You'll need a napkin.

The plot thickens ...

nesta

04-04-2007, 08:04 PM

Well, that sucked. I guess karma is a bitch, and Gadarene gets to laugh at me now.

I want to know why I was killed. I think I know, but I want to really know. I wish I'd gone out in a lynching so I could face my accusers.

So did anyone following along have me pegged as mafia?

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 08:08 PM

I don't believe I ever thought you were Mafia for one second, nesta. You did really well. It would appear that our SK is far smarter than the rest of us, though. Congrats on lasting as long as you did.

nesta

04-04-2007, 08:19 PM

I'll share something funny with you. At least it's funny to me now. Just before the night ended I asked NAF1138 if we were going to like the results of the night votes. He didn't answer me. I bet he was laughing too hard to reply.

NAF1138, you posted earlier in this thread that some of the mafia were being transparent. Be honest with me, you were talking about my posts, weren't you. :smack:

It is a lot easier to pick the mafia out when you know who they are. Gadarene especially was easy to spot.

Winston Smith

04-04-2007, 08:44 PM

I had your number, Nesta. A day late and a dollar short, though. Great job. My insane flame-out yesterday didn't hold a candle to my false mason claim last time, but it was still fun.

I left an insanely paranoid epitaph to shake things up a little. I hope somebody reads it.

nesta

04-04-2007, 08:54 PM

I don't believe you had me Winston. ;) I did have you, though... I knew you were town the whole time.

A serious question, was your last post a joke? Either way, I think it was bad form to post it after you were dead.

CaerieD

04-04-2007, 09:08 PM

I read it, Winston. Nicely put, though I don't entirely agree with your logic. Then again, obviously you've been following the game much more closely than I've been. I haven't had the best of luck prognosticating on who's who from over here. I had a couple of good hunches in the beginning (I seem to be good at occasionally spotting townies, at least), but when everything went crazy...well. I don't know how anyone could make sense of any of that.

So, at this point I've given up on trying out any theories. I'm just going to watch the madness and enjoy. :D

dnooman

04-04-2007, 10:41 PM

I still think that Fern Forrest is highly suspect, not sure exactly why. We shall see, uh, shan't we?

Was my parting post in bad form as well?

nesta

04-04-2007, 11:06 PM

I still think that Fern Forrest is highly suspect, not sure exactly why. We shall see, uh, shan't we?
No comment.

Was my parting post in bad form as well?
My understanding of the rules is that dead players are allowed one post to say goodbye, but that it shouldn't have any game or strategy related information in it. They are dead so they shouldn't post anything to help the team out in any way.

I think NAF1138 should clarify this in the game thread to remind people of the rule if this is correct.

In this regard, I think your parting post was a little questionable. It was day one, and you were killed before ever being able to post during the day, so I don't think it was a big deal. Winston's post, though, is a chalk full of names, strategy, links to posts, etc. Night and day difference.

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 11:15 PM

nesta:
It is a lot easier to pick the mafia out when you know who they are. Gadarene especially was easy to spot.

:confused:

nesta

04-04-2007, 11:22 PM

nesta:

:confused:

Sorry, I was joking. Just playing on the fact that I was soooo sure you were mafia, even though I knew you weren't.

Gadarene

04-04-2007, 11:44 PM

Yeah, hilarious. :) I love how Blaster Master, who's directly responsible for the deaths of Winston and myself, expresses absolutely no remorse, and even blames us for using bad logic. :dubious: By this point I'm assuming he is the Vigilante, but he's still an ass.

nesta

04-04-2007, 11:59 PM

Hey, I'd like to be given a little credit for your and Winston's deaths too. ;)

Blaster Master is doing a good job of keeping the town confused... and I think whoever killed me is an ass. I had my strategy all mapped out for the next couple of days, but no.

At least I won't get fired for trying to keep up with that thread.

dnooman

04-05-2007, 01:55 AM

and I think whoever killed me is an ass.
Someone that followed the rules of the game, and effectively killed you is "an ass"?

Wow, can one make whine with sour grapes?

Winston Smith

04-05-2007, 07:17 AM

A serious question, was your last post a joke? Either way, I think it was bad form to post it after you were dead.

I established last time that I am the Worst Mafia Player Ever™. This was my second (ever) game of Mafia/Werewolf, and I think it's pretty obvious I haven't improved since my first game. :) My last post was a draft I was preparing to re-state my case and try to get the town focused. It was drafted Tuesday and yesterday, when my paranioa was at a fever pitch. ;)

I was under the impression that a parting post was an opportunity to do just what I did - post analysis and any final thoughts as a final contribution to the game, so players could learn as much as possible from your death. If that was out of line, I'm genuinely sorry.

nesta please check your PM.

/w

Winston Smith

04-05-2007, 07:22 AM

NAF1138, please pass along my sincere apologies to the players if I was out of line posting that parting summary. I was under the impression that that was accepted/conventional game play. thanks /w

CaerieD

04-05-2007, 08:40 AM

Well, I certainly don't think the person who killed me was an ass. If it was the VIG (as I'd suspected and as has been claimed by Blaster Master), then I think it's pretty damn funny that I got taken out by someone who's supposed to be on the town's side. If it was the Mafia, though, I'd congratulate them on spotting me so quickly and taking care of me before I could gather any further information. But it being the VIG is just so much funnier.

nesta

04-05-2007, 09:30 AM

Someone that followed the rules of the game, and effectively killed you is "an ass"?

Wow, can one make whine with sour grapes?

It seems my joking tone doesn't work as text on a screen. I don't really think the person who killed me is an ass. Hell, I don't even know who they are. I don't have any sour grapes. I had fun playing, and although I wish I were still doing so, it's all part of the game.

Winston Smith

04-05-2007, 09:38 AM

It seems my joking tone doesn't work as text on a screen. I don't really think the person who killed me is an ass. Hell, I don't even know who they are. I don't have any sour grapes. I had fun playing, and although I wish I were still doing so, it's all part of the game.

The last game, MadTheSwine pursued me merculessly, and I had a hard time because I kept shifting between annoyance and amusement. So, I know exactly what you mean, I think. I'd describe it like this:

Game On: Bastard!
Game Off: Great job!

NAF1138

04-05-2007, 10:43 AM

NAF1138, please pass along my sincere apologies to the players if I was out of line posting that parting summary. I was under the impression that that was accepted/conventional game play. thanks /w
Well it shouldn't be done, but it happens all the time. Don't worry about it too much.

Also, nesta you still have access to the mafia boards, so you can follow along at night if you like. Just don't post opinions, strategy, or advice.

nesta

04-05-2007, 10:57 AM

Also, nesta you still have access to the mafia boards, so you can follow along at night if you like. Just don't post opinions, strategy, or advice.
Understood. I'm just a spectator now. At least I can follow the game on my own time and not be worried about missing something.

Thanks for running the game. It was a lot of fun even if I wasn't as good at it as I hoped to be. There's always next time I suppose.

Gadarene

04-05-2007, 10:59 AM

NAF1138

04-05-2007, 11:16 AM

Yeah, this was fun. As somebody mentioned in the behemoth thread, I think it'd be a good idea to run multiple, smaller games next time. Maybe two or three of fifteen players each. I'd certainly volunteer to be in charge of one of them.
Yeah, I am not sure if TPTB will let us do that. When I asked for permission to start this thread they said it was fine as long as only one was going at a time. It's too high traffic for the hampsters to deal with more than one it seems. But it is worth a shot at asking. A smaller one next time would be a very good idea though. And maybe getting someone to help me keep track of the vote count, since I seem to always be missing someone!

Counting is harder than it looks.

NAF1138

04-05-2007, 02:26 PM

NAF1138, you posted earlier in this thread that some of the mafia were being transparent. Be honest with me, you were talking about my posts, weren't you. :smack:

Not at all. Besides, I was clearly wrong.

BTW, since you wanted to know how you got picked: I actually asked the person who submitted your name for the night kill why they picked you, mostly because I was so surpised that it was your name. (I don't usually) You gave yourself away to them by calling a night kill a lynching in one of your posts, something they figured only a mafia person would do. Turns out they were right. It was a small slip, but it was enough.

On the whole very well played, I don't think anyone else saw it comming.

nesta

04-05-2007, 02:56 PM

You gave yourself away to them by calling a night kill a lynching in one of your posts, something they figured only a mafia person would do.
Thank you for sharing that. You've saved me many brain cycles trying to figure it out. I'll have to go back through my posts to find where I slipped up. I'm glad it was a small thing that got me, at least it's something I can try to avoid if/when I play this game again.

chrisk

04-05-2007, 03:06 PM

When I asked for permission to start this thread they said it was fine as long as only one was going at a time. It's too high traffic for the hampsters to deal with more than one it seems. But it is worth a shot at asking. A smaller one next time would be a very good idea though.

Hmm... I'm not sure that this one big game is lower-traffic or easier on the hamsters (sic) than two smaller ones would be. :D But there *is* space on the first page-ful of MPSIMS threads to worry about, which is another scarce resource on the board.

NAF1138

04-09-2007, 02:05 AM

Looks like Smitty is going to run afowl of the no lurking rule. I am putting out a call for people who might want to take over his role. Let me know if you are interested in jumping in. Former players are welcome to submit as well.

NAF1138

04-09-2007, 02:31 PM

I don't know if anyone out there is still actually following this game, but if you aren't and you have a few hours to kill I highly recommend getting back in right now. It's like the Lord of the Flies in there.

Winston Smith

04-09-2007, 02:33 PM

nesta

04-09-2007, 02:44 PM

This is one crazy game. With all these power-roles available it seems every early lynch is met with a role claim. I'm almost glad I was night killed so early so that I don't have to wade through that mess.

BTW NAF1138, I'd volunteer to sub in for smitty but I don't think it would look good if I did and failed to out all the Mafia, or fair if I did, so I don't think you'd let me. ;)

NAF1138

04-09-2007, 02:47 PM

panamajack

04-09-2007, 06:17 PM

It finally looks like something more interesting is happening. That thread got too big and confusing even for those playing it before, but the last few pages are pretty good. Though I haven't been following closely enough to know who's likely to be right (though, barring an elaborate conspiracy, pimaspinner is almost certainly a cop regardless of FCOD's position, as someone pointed out over there).

Minor nitpick - unless you're giving them another hour of reprieve, NAF1138, you probably meant Pacific Daylight Time (PDT not 'PST'). I only noticed it in a post you made a day ago, and I don't think anyone's confused at this point when the day will end.

NAF1138

04-09-2007, 06:21 PM

Suburban Plankton

04-09-2007, 06:55 PM

Hi folks! It looks like I'll be joining the ranks here in...oh, about 6 minutes. I think I'm technically breaking the rules by posting here prematurely, but what are they gonna do, kick me out of the game?

Mostly, I'm just killing time until my execution, after which I will post reams of "inside information" for your reading enjoyment.

Or not.

chrisk

04-09-2007, 07:12 PM

That was a funny lynching, Suburban

Meanwhile, I do find it interesting that there's so much discussion over something that, well, I might or might not have done while I was in the game, and my reasons why if I did it.

Suburban Plankton

04-09-2007, 07:16 PM

Dang, I missed out on my "farewell post". And since I already broke the rules by editing, I don't dare go back and make one now. Those people can be violent, you know.

I'm going to read through this thread now, and I'll be back if I have anything I can add to the discusison.

Suburban Plankton

04-09-2007, 07:51 PM

I'm going to have to be somewhat guarded in what I say, just on case there are any players reading this thread. I think that right now it's about even money on which side will win. I think that right now, one of the biggest things going for the Town is that most of the Power Roles have already claimed, so they have narrowed down their pool of suspects. That's assuming that most of the claims are legitimate. I know for a fact that they aren't all legit, but I ain't sayin' no more.

I think this game might come down to a battle of wits between the Mafia and the Doctor. If the Doctor can keep guessing the Mafia's target's correctly, thus preventing them from killing, then the town is going to win. If, on the other hand, the Doctor gets taken out in the next night or two, then the Town is in big trouble.

nesta

04-09-2007, 08:12 PM

Tonight and tomorrow are going to be key either way. Losing you Suburban Plankton was a big blow to the Mafia. I think they still have a good chance to win if they pull off a good night kill tonight and manage to get a townie lynched tomorrow. The SK has a real shot at taking it down, though, with the way the town has been acting.

dnooman

04-10-2007, 02:59 AM

At the risk of looking like an idiot, I'll repeat that Fern Forrest looks like scum to me.

I think that Jsex has a town role, and Sturmhauke is town too.

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-11-2007, 01:12 PM

chrisk

04-11-2007, 01:21 PM

Well, all I have to say is that I think the Mafia is screwed at this point.

At least we had some good laughs at the beginning of this game! We would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you darn pimaspinner!

--FCOD

Very interesting. Everybody was saying that beat cop investigations seemed so useless at the start. Master Detective gets killed off early, and a lowly beat cop saves the town! :D

CaerieD

04-11-2007, 01:25 PM

Very interesting. Everybody was saying that beat cop investigations seemed so useless at the start. Master Detective gets killed off early, and a lowly beat cop saves the town! :D

I'm all for that, considering how cruddy I felt about letting my team down with getting offed so quickly. :D

NAF1138

04-11-2007, 01:47 PM

Well, all I have to say is that I think the Mafia is screwed at this point.

At least we had some good laughs at the beginning of this game! We would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you darn pimaspinner!

--FCOD

I don't know. Your team mates are smart. I think they might pull this one off. They need to have a good day and night, but I wouldn't say you guys are too far behind.

kivvik

04-11-2007, 05:04 PM

NAF1138

04-11-2007, 05:10 PM

Well howdy. cowgirl wasn't kidding when she said it was kind of slow here. I wonder why the SK picked me last night. If it is who the cop says it is, I might know. Feh. Hey, NAF1138 was I one of the transparent Mafia? First game, and a helluva one to follow, so I was overwhelmed by it all.

There were three of you who always seemed to be voting together or backing similar ideas. But looking back on how things played out, I think you were only transperant to me because I knew who you were. I do wonder if anyone else is going to read back through the thread and see what I saw though.

nesta

04-11-2007, 05:28 PM

Welcome to the thread kivvik and FCOD. It's turning into a regular Mafia gathering over here.

I didn't notice your low post count kivvik until someone in the game thread pointed it out, but I'm in the same boat. I'm quite the lurker, but the game was a good way to pad the post count a little. I was hoping to double mine, but didn't last long enough.

zuma

04-11-2007, 05:51 PM

Eh,

I had a feeling I might go last night. We're at the point where they're going to be targetting confirmed townies. I think they may be onto something as far as Autolycus being the GF. But who knows.

Suburban Plankton

04-11-2007, 06:18 PM

Mtgman

04-11-2007, 09:58 PM

Whoever your doctor(assuming you have one) and serial killer are, they are excellent players.

Enjoy,
Steven

Millit the Frail

04-11-2007, 10:48 PM

Hey, pssst....I just found this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8426729#post8426729) .

I'm dying of laughter over here. And I've spent way too much time over the last week reading the entire 50 pages. This game is so addictive, I've got to get into the next one. (If there is a next one, of course...)

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

04-11-2007, 11:15 PM

I'm still trying to pretend that I'm following the game, but truth be told I haven't made any effort in some time.

I would be interested in playing again if it were a small game, for those of us with short attention spans. :D

Nava

04-12-2007, 07:07 AM

kivvik, it takes those few of us who are lurking and not playing almost as long as the actual players to catch up.

NAF, I have a linguistic question... why are the Millers called Millers?

zuma

04-12-2007, 07:31 AM

NAF,

Thanks btw for letting me play this game. You put together a really, really good one. I'm almost relieved I'm out now. I just wish I hadn't been part of the day 2 clusterfuck. Live and learn. Things look to get very interesting now.

Gadarene

04-12-2007, 09:20 AM

Live and learn indeed. Sorry for my contribution to the cannibalism, zuma. :)

Good to see it looks like the town is starting to turn things around!

NAF1138

04-12-2007, 10:01 AM

kivvik, it takes those few of us who are lurking and not playing almost as long as the actual players to catch up.

NAF, I have a linguistic question... why are the Millers called Millers?

I have no idea. The reverse idea is usually called the innocent child. But the miller is the traditional name for that role. They aren't always role blockers, but I figured I needed to give the role a little something to keep it from being just a straight downside for the town

kivvik

04-12-2007, 10:24 PM

Ah, and the day ends. I am so very sad that my analysis of Autolycus's posts were so very wrong. I thought I had done at least one thing right. Le sigh.

Suburban Plankton

04-12-2007, 10:28 PM

Just when you thought it was safe to walk the streets at night...

The Town had better be right about Fern Forest or it's gonna be a looooong day tomorrow.

Autolycus

04-12-2007, 11:22 PM

What's up everyone? I'm honored that people thought I was the Godfather, haha. I kinda wish I was actually, because I would have been playing brilliantly instead of lamely ><

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-13-2007, 01:07 AM

You may not have played the game well, but I, for one, found your posts to be very amusing. That said, I think the town is screwed.

--FCOD

kivvik

04-13-2007, 01:08 AM

What's up everyone? I'm honored that people thought I was the Godfather, haha. I kinda wish I was actually, because I would have been playing brilliantly instead of lamely ><

You miserable bastage! I thought you were special! :p I, I, read your clues so wrongly. On the bright side, my constant defense of you didn't help you much. At all.

Nava

04-13-2007, 01:10 AM

'lycus, I liked your posts... I hereby bestow upon you the role of Heavily Aksented Immigrant Wif Lotsa Cousins

Autolycus

04-13-2007, 01:52 AM

I cant be sad, because I'm watching Robin Williams on Youtube :)

Omi no Kami

04-13-2007, 05:33 AM

In a fit of pure Mafia-related humor, allow me to recommend http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8461111#post8461111 to any of you who happen to watch Lost. ^^

zuma

04-13-2007, 05:54 AM

That day sure went quick. The vote for Autolycus is completely understandable (I'm sure you mafia folk were loving the Autolycus act). I hope they're right about Fern Forest, but the evidence seems kind of shaky to me. Pima has a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong, and the supporting evidence is that FF talked about what the serial killer should do a lot? Why would the SK do that? That day was way too rushed. They should have hashed out the FF bit a little more.

zuma

04-13-2007, 06:29 AM

Suburban Plankton

04-13-2007, 08:54 AM

Question for the mafia:

Did you suspect sturmhauke was a mason at any point? I was wondering if Pleonast and/or I were a little too overzealous in defending him during his bandwagon on day 1. I don't think we were, but I was thinking I should have maybe reigned in one of my sturm defense posts a little bit.
I can't speak for the rest of the Mafia, but I never had any specific suspisions of sturmhauke. I wasn't really looking for Masons back on Day 1, and by the time you guys came out after the "festivities" on Day 2, I was loath to go back and reread the thread to look for clues.

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-13-2007, 12:01 PM

Nah, I had no idea he was a Mason. The only roles I figured out were pima and JSexton. I knew that pimaspinner was a cop from day one, and JSexton was the doc since day two.

--FCOD

chrisk

04-13-2007, 12:25 PM

Nah, I had no idea he was a Mason. The only roles I figured out were pima and JSexton. I knew that pimaspinner was a cop from day one, and JSexton was the doc since day two.

--FCOD

Hmm, interesting. Day two was around the time that I bailed and J subbed in for me.

Care to share any tidbits about what led you to those conclusions?? :D

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-13-2007, 12:32 PM

Hmm, interesting. Day two was around the time that I bailed and J subbed in for me.

Care to share any tidbits about what led you to those conclusions?? :DWell, I assumed that you were a power role because of your untimely departure. At first I thought you were a Mason, but when we tried to kill JSexton the third night and we were blocked I knew he was protecting himself. I didn't have any real evidence, just a hunch.

--FCOD

Autolycus

04-13-2007, 01:08 PM

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-13-2007, 01:19 PM

I have a question for the mafia. Did my mob-speak schtick actually save myself from any night kills? I figured that drawing negative attention to myself and keeping heat off the mob would save myself a few nights. Little did I know that you can still win even if dead, doh!

My plan was working really well in any case, until Pimaspimmer threw out that theory that I had no way of really defending against. I could have BSed a role, but I doubt that would have saved me either.Eh, maybe a little. We considered killing you, but figured that the town would lynch you pretty soon so it'd be a waste of your kill. I think we would have killed you on the third night if we didn't have better targets (Masons).

--FCOD

Autolycus

04-13-2007, 01:28 PM

Eh, maybe a little. We considered killing you, but figured that the town would lynch you pretty soon so it'd be a waste of your kill. I think we would have killed you on the third night if we didn't have better targets (Masons).

--FCOD

Mwahahaha, partial vindication is mine! :) :(

Winston Smith

04-13-2007, 01:51 PM

I have a question for the mafia. Did my mob-speak schtick actually save myself from any night kills? I figured that drawing negative attention to myself and keeping heat off the mob would save myself a few nights. Little did I know that you can still win even if dead, doh!

My plan was working really well in any case, until Pimaspimmer threw out that theory that I had no way of really defending against. I could have BSed a role, but I doubt that would have saved me either.

Take it from me: a fake role claim would not have saved you. :D

And I, for one, was diggin' your rap. I guess some of those folks checked their sense of humor at the door.

Suburban Plankton

04-13-2007, 04:34 PM

And I, for one, was diggin' your rap. I guess some of those folks checked their sense of humor at the door.
At first, I found it fairly annoying. But after not too long a while, it started to grow on me. In the end, I was sorry to see you go (though I was laughing all the way to nightfall at how certain the town was that they'd caught the Godfather).

DiggitCamara

04-13-2007, 06:54 PM

Mwahahaha, partial vindication is mine! :) :(
Lurker here.

Honestly, until the "padrino" theory started floating I had you pegged as the Serial Killer.

Think about it: the mafia knows you're not mafia, the rest takes you for a clown and it prolongs your life, at least for a while...

chrisk

04-14-2007, 01:09 PM

Yikes! Welcome new victims, including my alter-ego, JSexton.

Turning ugly in Doperville...

Fern Forest

04-14-2007, 01:46 PM

Heh, Looks like I really pinged dnooman's scumdometer early on and often. Like I said, we excel at suspecting citizens.

Man, apparently I'm just spectacularly bad at this game. :)Shame too, I did clear you after all. I still say that was a perfect response.

Having set the bar for how I play it straight I'm kinda worried whether or not I could pull of scum in the next game. Anybody else feel that way?

Any questions?

JSexton

04-14-2007, 02:47 PM

Well, that was a bad night. I think I may have been protecting mafia the last two nights...

Autolycus

04-14-2007, 03:02 PM

Sure is looking bad for the town >_<

Fern Forest

04-14-2007, 03:14 PM

The rates I saw were for 25% scum with a seer type role. With no seer type they said take the square root of the pop. We were in real trouble when our detective died but we did work our way back with one really good night.

But the town still has numbers and with the VG down the drain should slow. We'll see if they panic and start turning on each other.

Assuming they started with 9 mobsters and a SK what's the scum percentage now? I closed my list and didn't save it.

Fern Forest

04-14-2007, 03:54 PM

By the way, I was thinking about running the next game but now I'm not going to. It's a very interesting and fun game but man, what a draining experience. Anyway if anyone wants to take any piece and modify it however you want you're free to it.

The Cult of Osiris
I'd have the towns of East and West Adamstown. Seperated by a river and a state line. Across the river is a bridge with a bar on it where the townsfolk meet to discuss their various lives. Each town would have the same population. One day the town wakes up to find the narrator sacrificed and so the towns know that there are members of the Cult among them. The game starts of in the day.

The Cultists are in each town of roughly the same amount, perhaps the same amount. In each town one cult member has been chosen by their god to be a Prophet but the other cult members do not know exactly who.

In addition to the prophets there are a few Heretics. The heretics are part of the cult and participate freely but consider the other followers to have fallen from the true word. Naturally this schism is over some tiny difference in the manner of the sacrifice.

Each town has a different legal system and so conducts its own lynching during the day. Each town has a Nosy Neighbor who can investigate someone at night. Each town has a Joker who just happens to be able to protect people by being in the right place at the right time to disrupt whatever plans there were to kill that person. There is one Paranormalist between the two towns who has been following the national movements of the cult and is determined to end the chaos on his own. There is also one Jr. Paranormalist.

At one point in the game the population gets low enough that the population of the two towns gathers at the bridge and combines into one group having only one lynch. Safety in numbers but they lose the second lynch.

Team Cult - Win if they get a majority and are able to perform the final ritual. Lose if the Heretics win.
Cultist - Get together at night to decide on who to sacrifice during the night by vote. They get only one kill spread between the two towns.
Prophet - Exists among the cultists but they are not told who he is. If he is investigated by the nosy neighbor he appears as a townsperson.

Team Heretic - Win if when the cult gets to perform the final sacrifice and they equal 50% or more of the Cultists
Heretic - Participates normally with the cult during the night. Knows who the other heretics are. Each night sends a secret message to the narrator with the name of the person they wish to sacrifice along with a number between 1 and 1,000,000. Before the game the narrator will randomly select a number between 1 and 1,000,000 and the player closest to that number gets their kill. They get only one kill per night spread between the two towns. If a heretic is investigated by the nosy neighbor they appear as a townsperson.

Team Town - Even though they are divided into two parts they play as one. THey win when all cult members are killed.
Townsperson - Knows only their own role. Each day participates in the lynch in their own town. Once the town is merged participates in the sole lynch.
Nosy Neighbor - As a creature of the night he is not bound by the law and can investigate any player in either town. Is 100% right on all town members and normal cult members. Sees prophets and heretics as townspeople.
Joker - Can protect one person at night in either town. Can also protect himself if he so desires.
Paranormalist - Desperately wants to free the town from the cult and is driven to kill each night. As a night person is not bound by laws and can kill any player. Does not know who the Jr. Paranormalist is.
Jr. Paranormalist - Knows who the Paranormalist is and watching in admiration. If the Paranormalist dies the Jr Paranormalist becomes the Paranormalist.

Night deaths. The town will be able to tell the Cult kills from the Paranormalist kill by the use or lack of a ritual but not be able to tell the cult kills apart. The cult, well versed in their holy words know the difference.

Well if anyone wants to use any part go right ahead.

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-14-2007, 06:19 PM

NAF1138

04-14-2007, 06:24 PM

By the way, I was thinking about running the next game but now I'm not going to. It's a very interesting and fun game but man, what a draining experience. Anyway if anyone wants to take any piece and modify it however you want you're free to it.

Wow, that game sounds great. Someone should take that idea and run with it. Not me, but someone. I would like to mod a game again sometime, but I am going to need a break after this one

chrisk

04-14-2007, 06:46 PM

JSexton, might I ask who you were protecting the past two nights? Or are we not revealing information like that in this thread...

--FCOD

I think that we are. ;) Now that JSexton is rubbed out, and it's confirmed that we were indeed the Doc, I'll answer something that was asked in the game about my own 'heals'.

I did heal MadTheSwine on night two... mostly on a hunch, because we didn't have much info yet. Everybody had commented on how three prominent players from the first night had been targeted on night one - MTS seemed friendly, and he had definitely been a prominent werewolf and an interesting player last time, so I thought it was worth a try covering him. Playing doctor can get tough.

Also, while I'm at it with the confessions...

The fact that I was Doctor did contribute to my decision to sub out. Certainly some people wouldn't have given up a role like that no matter how much trouble they were in, but I felt it was probably better to give the post up to someone who might be able to bring a little credibility... was very worried that I'd have to role claim, and then end up dying anyway. Which is what happened to J I guess, but maybe he did some good first.

And no, I was NOT fishing for real cops so that I would know who to protect with the 'everybody pretend to be a cop' boondoggle. I was just REALLY excited on that first day, and actually thought that I needed to do something to get people talking and interacting. :smack: :smack: :smack: I had indeed expressed some reservations about the scheme on the last discussion thread, but didn't think that they completely overwhelmed any merit in the proposal, especially since nobody else AGREED with my sentiments.
The fact that some people were using the seeming contradiction between criticizing the scheme at first, and then proposing it, as a 'smoking gun' that PROVED I was only suggesting it to lead the town to its doom, was possibly the most frustrating thing about the whole situation to me. (sigh)

chrisk

04-14-2007, 07:11 PM

A bit off-topic here, but I'd kind of like to have a party game thread that isn't based on paranoia, gruesome imaginary deaths, and secret roles. :) Been wondering about trying to get a game of Haggle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggle_%28game%29) started, though I've only played it once IRL and that wasn't a great success.

Also wondering, in adapting that sort of game to a message board, how to handle the information stuff. Probably adapt some werewolf rules, say that all deals have to be negotiated on-thread, players are on the honor code not to contact each other privately and share information, but they can agree to 'team up' publicly, show each other their rule slips, transfer assets freely, and so on. The one piece of information that would not ever show up on-thread, is the content of rule slips, unless any player deliberately chooses to make one of their slips public (which is usually a bad strategic move, because it takes proprietary information and makes it common and essentially of no value to any particular player.) If player A agrees to show rule slip 17 to player B as part of a trade, I as the moderator would send player B the text of the rule.

Does that make sense? Is anybody interested in a game like that? Any questions about what the heck I'm talking about??

Blaster Master

04-14-2007, 08:17 PM

Well, since I'm dead and can't share my math in the game thread, I'll share them here. Otherwise, I wasted all the time I spent deriving it.

Let R be the ACTUAL role of the person being investigated.
Let I be the role that showed up from the beat cop investigation.
Let r be the number of detectable roles (in this case, 9 for town, mafia, SK, VIG, DOC, GA, miller, detective, and beat cop).
Let x be the number of players (known or suspected) left from that particular role (1 for SK, or 4-5 for mafia)
Let n be the total number of players in the game (may be reduced if you are sure of their role, like the masons).

I derived my fomulae using Bayes's law: P(R|I) = P(I|R) * P(R) / P(I)
Thus:

P(I|R) = 1/2 + 1/(2 * r)
P(C) = x / n
P(I) = P(I|R) * P(R) + P(I|~R) * P(~R) = (r + 1) / (2r) + (p - x) / (2nr)

Therefore:

P(R|I) = x(r + 1) / (xr + n)

given that r = 9

P(R|I) = 10x / (9x + n) in general

OR for the SK P(SK|I(SK)) = 10 / (9 + n)

Thus, the probability that Fern Forest was SK last night was 10 / (9 + 18) = 37% [18 being the players, 24, minus the confirmed: me, Autolycus (because he was about to die), Pleonast, sturmhauke, pimaspinner, Menoccio)]

Thus, assuming that there are 4 mafia, 1 GF, 1 beat cop (other than pima), 1 SK, 1 GA, and 4 confirmed, with 21 left, that leaves 9 townies. So I'd say (based on my guess that there's only 9 unconfirmed townies left) that the probability that Lakai is town is 10 (9) / (9 * 9 + (21 - 4)) or 91.8%.

Also is, increased likelihood given that investigation or L(R|I)

L(R|I) = n(r + 1) /(xr + n)
L(R|I) = 10n / (9x + n)

Thus, Lakai is 1.73x more likely to be a citizen than any of the other random unconfirmed townies, but Fern Forest was 6.75x (IIRC) more likely to be the SK last night than any other unconfirmed townie.

Fern Forest

04-14-2007, 10:51 PM

Wow, that game sounds great. Someone should take that idea and run with it. Not me, but someone. I would like to mod a game again sometime, but I am going to need a break after this one
I go back and forth wanting to and not wanting to. I think the thing that most scares me is that I have a long period between when I go to bed and when I get home from work that I would be absent. Maybe if I co-mod? Or if people don't mind waiting till things happen. Either way input would be great.

Although I think the next round should be small again. Maybe alternating back and forth.

Interesting Blaster Master. I think a lot of people are suspicious of math though. I think some people saw it as an attempt to appear to be helpful without actually being helpful. Like brewha and my odds post.

I'm interesting in seeing how the 5 names I've posted turn out. So far they've turned out 1 scum, 1 town. Kat, hocow and MadTheSwine left.

Heh, now that we've got some big posters dead and in this thread maybe things will pick up here.

JSexton

04-14-2007, 11:25 PM

Wow! That night sucked for the town! The Mafia had better work on finding the SK soon tho...

JSexton, might I ask who you were protecting the past two nights? Or are we not revealing information like that in this thread...

--FCOD
Pima both times. After doing some re-reading last night, I think that the mafia decided to throw you under a bus by having a scum pima claim cop. Of course, I've misread nearly everything in this game, so who knows.

On another note, it seems like this could be a regular feature here. There's certainly plenty of interest. On every forum I frequent where Mafia was introduced, it quickly grew, and often spawned it's own subforum.

I think some order is useful. Having some systems in place to regulate the games helps keep everything fun. For example, it's good to have an order of game moderators lined up, so there's no free-for-all in starting games. It's also a good idea to have someone experienced review a game for balance. (37 people is too much, for example)

I'd b happy to organize sucha thing, but I'd like to get input from folks on that. We'd also need to run such things by the mods.

Fern Forest

04-15-2007, 02:32 AM

37 people is too much, for example
That's one of the issues with the game I designed. To be fair you'd have to have at least 3 heretics. Square that to the 9 scum. Multiply by 4 to get 36 players minimum.

Also there's a fatal flaw. Were I a heretic in the game I designed I would immediately begin killed cult members till we outnumbered them on the theory that they'd have to die eventually and it's easier to kill them myself rather then try and guide the town to killing them while keeping my head off both blocks. Not sure how to fix it. Maybe block all cult on cult violence until the two towns merged. Or allow cultists to kill heretics but not the other way around.

What I was really enamored with was the two town idea. I liked forcing the scum to decide which town in which to kill at night.

dnooman

04-15-2007, 11:47 AM

Yeesh! Town is not lookin good right now.

Sorry Fern Forrest, I was convinced that you were mafia or SK. I know now that it was due to my misreading your intentions. Good thing I didn't have money on that.

JSexton turned out town, but I don't think that really surprised too many people.

I'm actually really glad I got bumped off early, I just don't have the tenacity necessary to devote to such an involved and intense format. Plus, I'd probably lose my job if I paid as much attention to the game as I wanted.

I can't help but think that a lot of the mafia strategy was to just let the town tear itself apart. Seems to have been working.

JSexton

04-15-2007, 02:36 PM

Which is part of the problem with a game this large. It's too easy to lurk, and too easy to lose track of what's happening.

Fern Forest

04-15-2007, 05:02 PM

Sorry Fern Forrest, I was convinced that you were mafia or SK. I know now that it was due to my misreading your intentions. Good thing I didn't have money on that.
Quite alright, if I had a nickel for every townsperson in this game who did that I'd have nearly a buck and a half.

Things sure are quiet in the game today.

CaerieD

04-16-2007, 09:19 AM

I really was rooting for you, Blaster Master, but I've got to admit to being relieved that you're dead now, so I can finally stop being so cagey about being able to confirm your role. Plus. y'know, it's nice to have my confessed killer over here with me. :D

The much slower paced game is making it a lot easier to catch up on what's going on and I've been able to go back and read things I'd missed before. It doesn't look so hot for the townies right now, though. I'd be willing to bet that there's one good strategizing, frequent poster who's Mafia at this point and the majority of the remaining scum are lurking for the most part.

As JSexton said, a game this large makes it far too easy to lurk. Those with power roles don't want to lurk, because they want to help their team, and so they've been getting outed or offed all over the place. Meanwhile, slipping under the radar is exactly what the Mafia would want. It should definitely be a smaller game next time, though I don't think size alone can be blamed for some of the craziness over there.

Blaster Master

04-16-2007, 09:57 AM

I really was rooting for you, Blaster Master, but I've got to admit to being relieved that you're dead now, so I can finally stop being so cagey about being able to confirm your role. Plus. y'know, it's nice to have my confessed killer over here with me. :D
I should have guessed you had investigated me the second night, because you seemed convinced that you'd looked scummy to the vigilante. I'm sorry I targetted you. You just seemed SO scummy to me, but looking back I can't exactly put my finger on why. I think the whole game would have ended up much better if I'd gone ahead and targetted Queuing, at least the day two fiasco would have been avoided.

I had been trying to play mind games to keep the SK and mafia from targetting me; but I think I got a little over zealous with my "I should be targetting the SK" campaign and she got paranoid. I still think it was a bad move for the SK to off me, because I don't think the SK was in any real danger of being lynched or targetted by me. Now with a slower game and fewer kills per night, each one will be more informed which will hopefully turn things against the SK.
The much slower paced game is making it a lot easier to catch up on what's going on and I've been able to go back and read things I'd missed before. It doesn't look so hot for the townies right now, though. I'd be willing to bet that there's one good strategizing, frequent poster who's Mafia at this point and the majority of the remaining scum are lurking for the most part.
That's what I'm afraid of; of the four dead scum, only one was drawing any real attention to himself. The town is so paranoid, that it goes after bad strategy and ideas despite that the higher posters have mostly shown up to be townies. Even worse if someone like Rysto or pimaspinner is actually scum (I AM leaning towards the first being scum, but he'll never get lynched.
As JSexton said, a game this large makes it far too easy to lurk. Those with power roles don't want to lurk, because they want to help their team, and so they've been getting outed or offed all over the place. Meanwhile, slipping under the radar is exactly what the Mafia would want. It should definitely be a smaller game next time, though I don't think size alone can be blamed for some of the craziness over there.
I agree as well, it hurt the town because me, and several others, were enjoying it too much and drawing too much attention to ourselves. Meanwhile, the mafia were enjoying sitting back and watching the FOSs on everyone else except for themselves.

I think so far, the town has made three fatal mistakes, one of which was mine:

1. chrisk's open detective system: It did ultimately lead to Pleonast's trust/distrust list which looked suspicious, but I think ultimately turned up to be helpful, and because Pleonast is a mason, it didn't hurt us that much. The way the ODS hurt us was by putting chrisk/JSexton on the town's list as scum, and the scum's list as a power role. Obviously, this is bad because it ultimately caused the doctor to be outed and killed.

2. Me targetting CaerieD: As I said above, obviously a bad bit of logic on my part, and had I targetted Queuing, you would have had at least one more chance to investigate. Plus, I doubt Gadarene would have been lynched on day two either, because the pairing between him and Queuing never would have happened.

3. Having the VIG target be Fern Forest last night: I wish I'd taken the time to do the math sooner, or I would have proposed killing Fern Forest ONLY in the event that Autolycus had turned up as the GF. I should have gone with my gut that both were town, especially since the largest part of supporting that Autolycus was potentially the GF was that it looked like Fern Forest might have targetted him. I probably could have made things slightly better by saying screw the town and targetted someone. Oh well...

I think the town needs to look really hard at the people who were lining up to lynch Fern Forest on day three over Suburban Plankton. I'm also going to say that the lurkers are most likely scum, and they're going to have a hard time hiding. I'm still convinced that hocow is either SK or scum. I'm also worried the entire basis for Rysto's level of trust is the early help on day one, and he's actually scum.

Fern Forest

04-17-2007, 12:00 AM

fluiddruid

04-17-2007, 09:03 AM

Yeah, I am not sure if TPTB will let us do that. When I asked for permission to start this thread they said it was fine as long as only one was going at a time. It's too high traffic for the hampsters to deal with more than one it seems. But it is worth a shot at asking. A smaller one next time would be a very good idea though. Just wanted to poke my head in and let you all know that I've volunteered to help be a moderator contact for the mafia threads (being an avid spectator and all that). While there will be limitations on the number of simultaneous games, we can organize more than one.

I know NAF1138 stated earlier that he probably would not to start a new game right away, so I'm putting the call out - if you'd like to organize a game, please let me know (so I can make sure 15 people aren't going to do it at once). Email's in the profile, or PMs are fine as well. I just ask that someone let me have a slot in the next one. :) We could conceivably start one before the current game is over, if interest is there.

Blaster Master

04-17-2007, 10:30 AM

Actually I guess the town isn't so far behind. If the town started off with 9 mobsters and a SK then it was 26.3% scum. There have been 17 deaths, 4 of which were scum for a 23.5% score rate. Take out the mob hits on townsfolk and they are doing better then random killings are, but not by much.

I think they're finally getting suspicious of the right people, like brewha, ArizonaTeach, and hocow (I've long been convinced they're all or at least most ofthem are scum, and their reactions to the accusations look like scum to me too). It looks like the wagon may get rolling on brewha, and if she is scum, I think the town will be okay. I also imagine that the SK will start targetting mafia again. You're right; it looks kind of bad, but about half of the mafia are dead.

What strikes me the oddest about the day I died was that no one really questioned pima's assumption that I was the SK. A few wondered is the SK would play so openly but other then that nothing. Whereas to my eyes only the foolest of SK would play the role anywhere near the way I did. I suppose it's possible to see me as a mobster but absolutely not the SK.

I can think of 2 possible reasons. It's possible are afraid of being bold and questioning what appears to be a town concensus. Standing up does seem to get people killed and so they were afraid to. Or they were looking for a leader, for part of the game that was you Blaster Master. And they just assumed that pima knew what he was going and accepted that.

Well, pima did make reasonable arguments and, thanks to my shady math, I was inclined to believe it. Even with that, I didn't have a good feeling about targetting you, I had a strong gut that you were town, but I couldn't go against what I thought were such good odds.

I also think you're right about the town looking for a leader. My being pretty much confirmed, and posting a lot made it easy for the townspeoeple to follow me, and the mafia to hide in that wagon. I think in retrospect, having a town leader is a double-edged sword because of that; even worse if the leader is wrong.

Even Auto as the GF. Sure it's possible but what an unnecessary gamble to play. We could very well have lynched him on that day.

Perhaps the town had had no other idea and was willing to let things roll on the chance that it was right. And so was the mafia.

I think the mafia knew you weren't the SK, because the only real reason for suspecting Autolycus as the GF was on the theory that you were the SK, had targetted him, the targetting failed, and were trying to breadcrumb me to target him.

As I think I said above, in retrospect, I should have argued to lynch Autolycus as a test of both you and him and I should have targetted hocow or another likely mafia. Oh well... 20/20 and all that.

panamajack

04-17-2007, 12:22 PM

Blaster Master

04-17-2007, 02:34 PM

I just realized something, but I won't post it in the GQ thread because it's sort of analysis of the game (I already screwed up there once by misreading the rules).

The Beat Cop isn't supposed to report if a pro-town power role is found, only that someone is a 'citizen' or other (anti-town like SK). This means that if the BC says 'Citizen', the might actually have shown up as a Mason, or another BC, etc. This complicates matters, meaning a 'Citizen' report isn't as accurate as was previously thought (although it has the highest probability of being correct, and the SK read was the lowest).

If this is a Mafia conspiracy with pima claiming cop, it's being very well done.

Well, obviously, if pimaspinner gets a detective, VIG, DOC, or mason reading, he should report it as precisely that, because it is known it is bogus. However, if he gets a GA, beat cop, or citizen reading, he should only say "town friendly".

I agree, that if pimaspinner is mafia, it's well executed, but I can't imagine them deliberately sacrificing another mafia member to pull it off. If she were faking, she would have been better off identifying a bunch of people she knew were likely to be town friendly. Of course, they may have thought it was worth it to trade a mafia member for several town lynches and the death of the doctor... but it doesn't seem likely.

I also imagine if pimaspinner were lying the other cop(s) (Menocchio, perhaps) would have investigated pimaspinner last night to make sure and would have found a way to strongly FOS her. The fact that that didn't happen seems to strongly suggest that pimaspinner is honest, and will die tonight; I can't imagine the mafia leaving a cop alive on a hope that she'll be lynched tomorrow, because it means one more identification, and then they'll ALL still be confirmed the next day.

Blaster Master

04-17-2007, 02:40 PM

Oh, and the Queuing wagon is very troublesome. I thought the town learned already from the Enfant Terrible and Gadarene lynchings, along with the whole chrisk FOS that resulted in the doctor being revealed, that stubbornness like that is likely not a scum tell. It's even worse that several of the votes on him are high on my scum-dar. If they lynch him, I foresee bad things for the town.

Gadarene

04-17-2007, 04:18 PM

Gadarene

04-17-2007, 04:36 PM

Sign-ups for the new game are here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8476380#post8476380)!

CaerieD

04-17-2007, 04:42 PM

Agreed. I remain certain that he's town.

While I'd had my doubts about Queuing before--if I'd lasted longer all my FOS investigations would have surely found every town friendly role there was and not a single scum!--I'm leaning towards town now, too. Which makes things look poor for the town if this continues.

NAF1138

04-18-2007, 12:27 PM

I am going to open up tonights night kill text to you, the loyal followers of this game.

Submit your death scenes here or pm me, and I will chose my favorites to use for the actual kill.

MadTheSwine

04-18-2007, 01:28 PM

*enters room and steals Winstons nachos*

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

04-18-2007, 01:31 PM

*chortles to herself at the bite marks of "Mafia Karma" on MadTheSwine's butt*

MadTheSwine

04-18-2007, 01:41 PM

*chortles to herself at the bite marks of "Mafia Karma" on MadTheSwine's butt*

Not following ya here.

Well ..looks like AZTeach just outed himself as mafia....hope they pick up on it

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-18-2007, 01:43 PM

Well ..looks like AZTeach just outed himself as mafia....hope they pick up on itWhy do you say this? I don't think I'm seeing what you are...

--FCOD

chrisk

04-18-2007, 01:44 PM

*enters room and steals Winstons nachos*

Hey there Mad.

So you really were town. :) I hope that I did keep you in the game longer, by healing you back on night two.

;)

MadTheSwine

04-18-2007, 01:54 PM

Why do you say this? I don't think I'm seeing what you are...

--FCOD

His last post....just sorta pinged...oh I was away ...i didnt get a chance to protect mad...i wouldnt have voted for him if i was here...conviently misses voting but shows up within minutes of the murder. Thats the way I read it anyhow.

And TY Chrisk ...ya mighta kept me alive,,,will have to wait and see.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

04-18-2007, 02:01 PM

Not following ya here.

Wayyyyy back in the first game (when you were scum, and I was town), the day of my lynching it came down to a vote race between you and I. A few folks were away from the game who could have potentially tipped the scale in my favor. Not that I'm bitter or vindictive or anything. :D

MadTheSwine

04-18-2007, 02:05 PM

Wayyyyy back in the first game (when you were scum, and I was town), the day of my lynching it came down to a vote race between you and I. A few folks were away from the game who could have potentially tipped the scale in my favor. Not that I'm bitter or vindictive or anything. :D

Oh....you played in the first game?

Fern Forest

04-19-2007, 12:25 AM

We might as well comment on both Mafia games.

They're so cute. So optimistic and bright eyed and ready to take on the world. I remember when we were like that. I wonder how long it will last.

MadTheSwine

04-19-2007, 12:55 AM

We might as well comment on both Mafia games.

They're so cute. So optimistic and bright eyed and ready to take on the world. I remember when we were like that. I wonder how long it will last.

Til about page 20 and then realizing ya gotta go back and read all that stuff again. Course there are only 20 players in the 3rd edition so it wont get to awful bad I wouldn't think.
I really didn't want to get killed, but I damn sure didn't wanna read through 60 pages of that mess.

Autolycus

04-19-2007, 01:57 AM

The town is so screwed :(

Blaster Master

04-19-2007, 09:26 AM

The town is so screwed :(

You can say that again. How the heck did the MadtheSwine wagon get so much steam behind it? How come so many people keep saying so-and-so is pinging my scum-dar, but keep voting elsewhere? Does anyone else think at least two of Pygmy Rugger, MonkeyMensch, and Arizona Teach are scum?

FlyingCowOfDoom

04-19-2007, 09:30 AM

The funny thing is that the players that are vocal and/or "sure" of their scum lists and scum-dar are pretty much all wrong.

LOL!

No offense to anyone, but the town in this round isn't very good at this game.

--FCOD

gonzoron

04-19-2007, 10:13 AM

I hate to be a backseat hitman, but... oh wait, that's what this thread is for. I'm not an expert on this game, but in modesty I do consider myself an expert on games in general. I've been watching all three games with interest, and while the latest version has some interesting ideas, unfortunately I think there are a few flaws. Specifically the Do-Gooder and the Night Watchman. Both are excellent in flavor, but lacking in rules execution.

The problem with the Do-Gooder is that they have no power other than being un-corruptable. Thus, they don't really have a "tell" of any kind, so the Mafia is completely shooting in the dark. It's essentially a random chance that their ONE AND ONLY recruitment doesn't work. Seems a bit lacking as a "power role".

The Night Watchman is really cool in concept, but again, with no "tell," the result is a random 1 in 6 chance that the mafia kill fails as long as the NW is alive. Which is kind of disappointing for such a flavorful addition.

So, do I have a way to fix them or am I just bitching? Well, I have some suggestions. I would first of all give the Do-gooder some other power. I don't know what, but something that would encourage them to behave differently enough that the mafia has some slim chance of figuring it out. Or combine the do-gooder with another existing role. (Do-gooder detective, or Do-gooder Mason for example)

For the Night Watchman, I would make the locations matter more. Maybe make some sort of system whereby the players have to publicly declare where they will be that night, and then the Watchman has to make his choice.

Now you'd have to make sure that they don't break the system by everyone going to one place and having the watchman always protect that place. So there would have to be some limit on how many people fit in one place, which would have to be based somehow on the number of remaining players, lest the limit become obsolete when the number of players drops.

Then you have the issue that the NW just became a super-powerful doctor. So you'd have to limit his powers somehow. Maybe make him change locations every night, or only work on a limited number of nights. I'm not sure. This is a work in progress here...

You might make things even more flavorful by requiring the mafia to have at least one member on site to make the kill. That would certainly give the town a lot to analyze, and also make the mafia's choices a bit harder. But if you did that, you probably need less locations total so that the mafia isn't found immediately when 12 people are spread across 6 locations.

In the end, I don't know if the book-keeping of who is where would detract from the game, and I'm not expecting the mod to make any changes now that it's started (and certainly not recommending you use my suggestions in this half-baked form). Just making an observation and suggestion for future discussion...

Thoughts?

chrisk

04-19-2007, 10:21 AM

We might as well comment on both Mafia games.

Probably better not, since then players of one can't join commentary on the other.

chrisk

04-19-2007, 10:55 AM

(Sets out plenty of pie selections for the new arrivals.)

MadTheSwine

04-19-2007, 11:06 AM

Well it does help the town that glee was picked out by the SK from the group of unknowns..SK(probly Queing) is trying to off mafia for now.The town HAS to get a mafia today...after the mafia kills all confirmed town Queing will go after that.

Hockey Monkey

04-19-2007, 12:01 PM

Ah, so this is the forbidden thread. Oh look, PIE!

:::gobble gobble:::

Hey, Jsexton thanks for the protects. Feel better now, knowing I was a good guy? :D

If I'm ever in a game again and get a Mafia role, I'll have a good idea how to play it. ;)

Winston Smith

04-19-2007, 12:33 PM

(Sets out plenty of pie selections for the new arrivals.)

I've been here a while. Can I have pie, too?

chrisk

04-19-2007, 12:58 PM

I've been here a while. Can I have pie, too?

Sure, pie for everybody!!

glee

04-19-2007, 01:00 PM

Evening all! (Thanks for the pie!)

For some reason I seem to have had a spectacular death, involving fire and duct tape. :eek:

Having read this thread, here's some thoughts:

ChrisK proposed a good idea (Cops leaving hints) but too soon. Which led to...
...CaerieD unfortunately outing herself with a precise list of suspects that only a Cop would give.

Autolycus followed Winston's example in the first game and didn't help the Town.

I think the Town was unlucky that Citizens suspected each other about day 2 and 'formed blocs', which made both sides look suspicious.

NAF1138

04-19-2007, 01:04 PM

For some reason I seem to have had a spectacular death, involving fire and duct tape. :eek:

You can thank your killer for that one. They passed on the chance to choose a method of death the previous night, so I let em have another crack at it last night.

I liked how it turned out.

Oh and. if any of y'all want to submit ideas for death scenes I am still open to suggestions. PM me or post a fantastic death scene of your chosing in the thread.

Winston Smith

04-19-2007, 01:22 PM

*enters room and steals Winstons nachos*

Keep 'em.

I've got pie. :p

Winston Smith

04-19-2007, 01:24 PM

Oh and. if any of y'all want to submit ideas for death scenes I am still open to suggestions. PM me or post a fantastic death scene of your chosing in the thread.

Italian necktie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_necktie)!

:: gruesome ::

Hockey Monkey

04-19-2007, 02:07 PM

Italian necktie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_necktie)!

:: gruesome ::

Ewwwww. Just ew.

I see you changed your location tag Winston!

In game related news, I'm not convinced that Aguecheek is a beat cop. Of course my hunches don't have a great track record. :p I really suck at this game, and I can't wait to play again!

glee got a great death scene. I just got shot in the back o' the head. I guess that was befitting a cop.

MadTheSwine

04-19-2007, 03:04 PM

Ewwwww. Just ew.

I see you changed your location tag Winston!

In game related news, I'm not convinced that Aguecheek is a beat cop. Of course my hunches don't have a great track record. :p I really suck at this game, and I can't wait to play again!.

Yes Winston :D funny.

I can't wait either....wonder what the max should be...obviously 37 is waaaaay to big...20 seems a bit small...The Werewolf game had 23 ,I think, which seemed about right...so I am thinking maybe 25 players.

Precambrianmollusc

04-19-2007, 03:09 PM

Well for gruesome deaths how about a technique I read in a Michael Dibdin - Aurelio Zen mystery where the mafia (or someone wanting it to look like a mafia killing) did the following.
The poor victim was tied face down, bent over a gas oven with their stomach over the gas ring burners. The gas ring burners were switched on and the poor sod left there to get burned and cooked. Called something like fire in the belly.

I am rather confused by the number of cops - I thought the detective and both beat cops were dead, and what ever happened to the miller role?

Gadarene

04-19-2007, 03:18 PM

I am rather confused by the number of cops - I thought the detective and both beat cops were dead, and what ever happened to the miller role?

I thought both beat cops were dead as well, but I couldn't remember who the other one was besides pimaspinner. If it's true that two beat cops and one detective have been killed, then according to NAF's instructions at the beginning of the game, there shouldn't be any more beat cops, and Aguecheek is lying.

MadTheSwine

04-19-2007, 03:55 PM

I thought both beat cops were dead as well, but I couldn't remember who the other one was besides pimaspinner. If it's true that two beat cops and one detective have been killed, then according to NAF's instructions at the beginning of the game, there shouldn't be any more beat cops, and Aguecheek is lying.

pimaspinner was the only beat cop I remember,besides Aguecheeks probable false claim.

Hockey Monkey

04-19-2007, 04:09 PM

So far, I am (was) the only confirmed beat cop. There could be another one according to the rules, but maybe not. We weren't like masons - able to confirm each other.

I've come up with a cool Star Trek Version of this game if anybody wants to hear.

MadTheSwine

04-19-2007, 04:31 PM

Hockey Monkey

04-19-2007, 05:25 PM

Mafia - Star Trek Version

Some of the roles are obvious, duh. I thought it would be an interesting twist to combine a couple of the roles as well. And this isn't completely thought out. I don't really have any interest in moderating a game, so if someone else wants to run a version of this, just give me a little credit for coming up with it. :D

Roles:

Captain Kirk - (what you thought this was gonna be TNG? Nope!) - Vigilante/Guardian Angel. Kills each night in search of the Alien Life Form. Can also use his Kirkiness to protect one person on one night only. There is only one Kirk.

Dr. McCoy - The doctor. Uses his powers of healing to keep one person safe from the Klingons or Alien Life Form each night. There is only one Dr. McCoy.

Spock - The detective. Always right on his investigations because of is unparalleled powers of logic. Except if he investigates Khan, who will show up as a Red Shirt Crew Member. There is only one Spock.

Lt. Uhura - Mason/Informant - has access to the Klingon boards and knows the language, but does not post to them. Klingons know there is someone monitoring their transmissions, but does not know who. Knows other masons, but not if they have special powers. There is only one Lt. Uhura.

Sulu - Mason/Cop - Investigates one person each night. A crew member will always show up as a crew member, but other roles are 50/50 and can show as any other role if wrong. Knows other masons, but not if they have special powers. There can be up to two Sulus.

Scottie - a plain mason. Masons know each other, but don't know if the others have any special powers. There can be up to 3 Scotties.

Red Shirt Crew Member - a plain vanilla townie who knows nothing and will likely die if picked for an away mission. :D (There are no Away Missions, but if you wanna call the lynchings that, I think that would be cool.) Everybody in the game who is not somebody else is a crew member.

Khan - Leader of the Klingons. Will show as a crew member if correctly investigated. There is only one Khan.

Klingon - the bad guys. Depends on how many there are in the game as to the exact number of Klingons.

Alien Life Form - Poses as a crew member and kills every night. Wins the game if it is still alive when either the crew erradicate the Klingon menace or the Klingons take the majority. There is one ALF.

Game play is much the same as the other games.

What do you guys think. I wanna play this one!

sachertorte

04-19-2007, 05:43 PM

I've kind of given up paying attention to the game (for my own sanity), but I'd like to say, I think the SK deserves to win.

Go SK!

nesta

04-19-2007, 05:50 PM

I've kind of given up paying attention to the game (for my own sanity), but I'd like to say, I think the SK deserves to win.

Go SK!
I kinda agree, though I do still have some Mafia ties to that game. If the SK is who I think it is they've done a great job with the role and have a real chance at winning.

Gadarene

04-19-2007, 05:52 PM

I kinda agree, though I do still have some Mafia ties to that game. If the SK is who I think it is they've done a great job with the role and have a real chance at winning.

Who do you think it is? PM me if you don't want to share publicly.

sachertorte

04-19-2007, 06:03 PM

Hee! The theming is fun.

Lt. Uhura - Mason/Informant - has access to the Klingon boards and knows the language, but does not post to them. Klingons know there is someone monitoring their transmissions, but does not know who. Knows other masons, but not if they have special powers. There is only one Lt. Uhura.

Uhura seems really powerful. Wouldn't she be able to out the Klingons really quickly? The Klingons have to discuss who to kill (and vote?), by process of elimination wouldn't she know rather quickly who is a Klingon and who isn't?

I suppose the Klingons could have long debates about who to kill and go around nearly deciding on several candidates that also include Klingons, but still, seems like a very powerful role. And choosing a target for the Klingons would be a pain in the neck just to obsfucate Uhura. I see long nights with this one.

Hockey Monkey

04-19-2007, 06:16 PM

Hee! The theming is fun.

Uhura seems really powerful. Wouldn't she be able to out the Klingons really quickly? The Klingons have to discuss who to kill (and vote?), by process of elimination wouldn't she know rather quickly who is a Klingon and who isn't?

I suppose the Klingons could have long debates about who to kill and go around nearly deciding on several candidates that also include Klingons, but still, seems like a very powerful role. And choosing a target for the Klingons would be a pain in the neck just to obsfucate Uhura. I see long nights with this one.

Yes, a very powerful role, but one must be careful not to give out too much information and get killed. It wouldn't be any fun if she came out and said "these are the Klingons". She wouldn't be able to stop a kill, but she would know the discussion behind it. If she slips up, she'll get killed by the Klingons or sent on an Away Mission. Eh, It's a work in progress and probably needs tweaking to bring it into line. I thought the theme would be kick ass. Dibs on the Alien Life Form!

chrisk

04-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Yes, a very powerful role, but one must be careful not to give out too much information and get killed. It wouldn't be any fun if she came out and said "these are the Klingons". She wouldn't be able to stop a kill, but she would know the discussion behind it. If she slips up, she'll get killed by the Klingons or sent on an Away Mission. Eh, It's a work in progress and probably needs tweaking to bring it into line. I thought the theme would be kick ass. Dibs on the Alien Life Form!

It would be interesting if she didn't see the true handles on the Klingon board, just the content of posts and placeholders like 'klingon01', 'klingon02' and so on.

And as a total shameless plug - I'm *really* hoping to get my trading-n-negotiations game thread started soon, with fluiddruid's benevolent approval. I've started a discussion thread about my idea here, and would love to see a few replies on it from anybody who'd be interested in taking part in something a bit less deadly. Especially so that I don't just sink right off the forum page. ::sigh::

PS: Good thing I previewed - first time I accidentally linked to the closed "Mafia III-Observation deck...Off Limits to Living Players" thread. :D

Suburban Plankton

04-19-2007, 08:19 PM

Just a quick reminder: please don't post any commentary on the Mafia III game here. The Forbidden Thread v3 is here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=417386).

I post this because there was some concern expressed by some of the players in Game III (including NAF1138, this game's moderator) that they wouldn't be able to read this thread for fear of inadvertently getting "inside information".

Thanks.

Blaster Master

04-20-2007, 01:22 PM

Is it just me, or is MonkeyMensch's last post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8488043&postcount=3074) one of the scummiest looking posts since the one that got suspicion of Suburban Plankton really rolling?

So Aguecheek may be lying... still, if he's not, the mafia will kill him tonight.

Why would the SK kill pimaspinner? There's no way the SK DIDN'T kill glee, because there was a LOT of suspicion that he was mafia and helping the town is still his best chance for victory AND the mafia has no reason to get rid of him due to that suspicion. Killing pimaspinner last night was the ONLY conceivable move last night.

Man, I hope someone calls him on this.

Hockey Monkey

04-20-2007, 02:29 PM

Yeah, that post didn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

NAF1138

04-20-2007, 06:49 PM

I am glad they have finally slowed down and really started looking at what people posted.

Town needs a win today, for morale if nothing else.

Nesta, I also think the SK is doing a great job...but I missed it, who do you think is the sk?

MadTheSwine

04-20-2007, 07:53 PM

I think SK is Queuing.

glee

04-20-2007, 08:00 PM

Why would the SK kill pimaspinner? There's no way the SK DIDN'T kill glee, because there was a LOT of suspicion that he was mafia and helping the town is still his best chance for victory AND the mafia has no reason to get rid of him due to that suspicion. Killing pimaspinner last night was the ONLY conceivable move last night.

I assume that the SK thinks killing Townies is the quickest way to win.

The Mafia will kill a Townie a day; the Town don't seem to have a clear line on Mafia, so could lynch either Mafia or Town; therefore the SK should reduce Town to the level of Mafia (and could even kill Masons!).

I didn't see much suspicion pointed at me during the game.
I never got more than a couple of votes to be lynched and my posts were more frequent and 'meatier' than most of those remaining...

Blaster Master

04-20-2007, 11:16 PM

I assume that the SK thinks killing Townies is the quickest way to win.

The Mafia will kill a Townie a day; the Town don't seem to have a clear line on Mafia, so could lynch either Mafia or Town; therefore the SK should reduce Town to the level of Mafia (and could even kill Masons!).

I didn't see much suspicion pointed at me during the game.
I never got more than a couple of votes to be lynched and my posts were more frequent and 'meatier' than most of those remaining...
I disagree. I thought the case for how the mafia could delay victory to route out the SK was good reasoning. Further, the SK would be silly to kill unconfirmed townies if he's trying to help the mafia, 1) Because the mafia want to kill confirmed townies at this point and 2) Because it makes the chance of him being lynched higher. That is, if he were really going after the town, I imagine he would have killed a mason last night.

I agree that you weren't REALLY high on anyone's scum list openly, but you were on a few. I'd be suspicious of whoever had fingered you as mafia or, if the SK is really smart, he didn't finger you, and used someone else's opinion to try and frame them.

That said, I thought it was more likely you were town than mafia, but I could understand how some of the others thought you were scum.

And on further reflection, I have a prediction: Lakai is the GF! Remember, you heard it here first. He just looks SO, SO scummy to me, and "didn't want to waste" and investigation, and now he's essentially cleared. Should the town go after him yet..? Absolutely not, because it's not worth the risk, especially with other candidates, but it'll be a shame if he gets ignored after a couple more mafia are caught.

Fern Forest

04-21-2007, 01:05 AM

I am glad they have finally slowed down and really started looking at what people posted. When I saw what they were doing I thought "Good idea. I'm glad I'm dead."

Frankly I think it would be the weakest part of my game were I alive.

Hockey Monkey

04-21-2007, 09:01 AM

I disagree. I thought the case for how the mafia could delay victory to route out the SK was good reasoning. Further, the SK would be silly to kill unconfirmed townies if he's trying to help the mafia, 1) Because the mafia want to kill confirmed townies at this point and 2) Because it makes the chance of him being lynched higher. That is, if he were really going after the town, I imagine he would have killed a mason last night.

I agree that you weren't REALLY high on anyone's scum list openly, but you were on a few. I'd be suspicious of whoever had fingered you as mafia or, if the SK is really smart, he didn't finger you, and used someone else's opinion to try and frame them.

That said, I thought it was more likely you were town than mafia, but I could understand how some of the others thought you were scum.

And on further reflection, I have a prediction: Lakai is the GF! Remember, you heard it here first. He just looks SO, SO scummy to me, and "didn't want to waste" and investigation, and now he's essentially cleared. Should the town go after him yet..? Absolutely not, because it's not worth the risk, especially with other candidates, but it'll be a shame if he gets ignored after a couple more mafia are caught.

I still think Lakai is scummy as well. When I investigated him, I got a "pro-town" role, not vanilla citizen. I'm not convinced he's town at all.

Blaster Master

04-22-2007, 09:38 PM

I still think Lakai is scummy as well. When I investigated him, I got a "pro-town" role, not vanilla citizen. I'm not convinced he's town at all.
Damn, I was under the impression you got vanilla-townie... Well damn, especially if you got anything other than the other cop... that's damn scary that he ISN'T going to be pursued, because that is pretty much proof that your investigation was false.

Hockey Monkey

04-23-2007, 08:31 AM

Damn, I was under the impression you got vanilla-townie... Well damn, especially if you got anything other than the other cop... that's damn scary that he ISN'T going to be pursued, because that is pretty much proof that your investigation was false.

I don't want to put the role I got in this thread, but I'll PM you with it if you want.

I tried in one of my last posts to the game to hint that my reading of Lakai wasn't vanilla, but I don't know if anyone picked up on it. I could have gotten a real and for true reading on him, and if I did, I didn't want to chance outing him.

Blaster Master

04-23-2007, 09:10 AM

I don't want to put the role I got in this thread, but I'll PM you with it if you want.

I tried in one of my last posts to the game to hint that my reading of Lakai wasn't vanilla, but I don't know if anyone picked up on it. I could have gotten a real and for true reading on him, and if I did, I didn't want to chance outing him.

I didn't pick up on that at all. I would appreciate the read you got, I still think he's scum, but if it's something else, I might read something else into his posts. Thanks.

Fern Forest

04-24-2007, 09:26 PM

I can't believe people are still claiming. Now that has to be it, right?

Blaster Master

04-25-2007, 01:01 AM

I can't believe people are still claiming. Now that has to be it, right?

While I am more inclined to believe cowgirl's claim than Auguecheek's, the fact that it wasn't used to protected pimaspinner is horrible.

I also can't believe Malacandra was lynched and not one of the other candidates. It looks like some quick work by the mafia. Odd that everyone that goes up against Queuing dies, or at least is forced to claim, in the same day.

Fern Forest

04-25-2007, 03:10 AM

Winston Smith

04-25-2007, 08:47 AM

I just went to have a look at the thread (I haven't even opened it in at least a week or two.

3,226 Replies
65,850 Reads

I browsed back a few pages to see if I could get a handle on what been happening. Forget it. I can't help thinking about Stephen King's Hearts in Atlantis. I'm really, really, really glad I'm not in that anymore. What a tremendous liability! The last couple of days I was playing my productivity at the office plummeted, and it was still relatively early in the game.

I've already asked a couple of you already, but if a passing dead mafia player wouldn't mind IMing me I'm still mightily curious about who was mafia.

Again, I swear I won't sing. :D

Blaster Master

04-26-2007, 12:49 AM

It was an interesting strategy of NAF's naming a whole bunch of jobs but no guarantees that they're actually in the game.

It's funny they let Aguecheek slide without him answering where his breadcrumbs were.
Not only that, but he didn't die last night. That to me makes him almost 100% definitely scum. If he really isn't mafia, and has a chance of being a power role, the mafia has to kill him. Thus, I think the mafia killed Menocchio because he was practically a confirmed townie and still had a chance to be a power role. The fact that the town isn't even giving Aguecheek a more serious look over immediately has me really concerned that the game is basically over. Obviously, he didn't want to investigate cowgirl, because he couldn't say for sure whether she was or was not the GA, so it would've hurt his claim if he got it wrong.

It looks like the SK finally decided to switch sides. ArizonaTeach did look a little scummy, but certainly not as much as someone like PygmyRugger... how the hell is he still alive at this point?

NAF1138

04-26-2007, 10:02 AM

The town still has a chance to rally and take this thing back, but if I were to put money on it right now, I would say that I think the SK is going to win this thing. The mafia made a bad play last night, and I think that the town is looking at the wrong things. If they were thinking like you BM, I think they could have this thing wrapped up, but they aren't. So for now my money is on the SK.

fruitbat

04-26-2007, 11:28 AM

I keep meaning to get into one of these.

I would encourage anyone who wants to play regularly, or just needs ideas for some games and roles to come to www.twoplustwo.com to the "Puzzles and Other Games" forum. We are not looking to supplant the games here by any means, but it also isn't going to be possible to run nearly as many games here as we do in the POG forum. We welcome new comers at any time. Two Plus Two is a poker forum, but that naturally leads to people who like all sorts of games. Feel free to send me an AIM if you have any questions at wdcbooks33.

One of the more interesting variants is our bread and butter game, known as turbo werewolf. The game is played with 25 minute days and 5-10 minute nights. Other than that it is just like any other game. The nice thing is that it only takes a couple of hours from start to finish and has a completely different dynamic from a longer game.

NAF1138

04-26-2007, 11:48 AM