Stage hypnotists...legit?

[jsc1953]

I recently had the opportunity to see, for the first time, a stage hypnotist's act. We probably all know the drill: hypnotist takes the stage, and takes a group of volunteers from the audience. Hypnotizes them, and then gets them to do unlikely & humorous things (tells them they're very cold, then very hot; suggests that whenever they hear the word "hypnosis" they see that he's wearing no pants).

How legit is this? In the performance I witnessed he started with 20 volunteers, and soon dismissed 4 as not being suitable material. I'm guessing that at least a few of the remainder were shills.

And have any dopers ever participated in one of these performances?

[pinkfreud]

And have any dopers ever participated in one of these performances?At a New Year's Eve party many years ago, I went onstage with hypnotist Richard De La Font (http://www.delafont.com/hypnotists/richard-de-la-font.htm). I was one of the people he dismissed as unsuitable. The person who proved to be the "star" volunteer was a coworker of mine, and definitely not a shill.

[Doctor Who]

How legit is this? In the performance I witnessed he started with 20 volunteers, and soon dismissed 4 as not being suitable material. I'm guessing that at least a few of the remainder were shills.
I've also seen one of these performances.

In my situation, I knew every single one of the people that were brought up on stage, so I knew they couldn't be plants. Of course, the hypnotist could have met with them earlier and discussed the routine, or maybe they were just eager to play along.

I honestly was baffled whether the whole thing was real or not. Or real for some of the participants and staged by others. I will note that the show was hilarious.

[Gangster Octopus]

I watched a recent episode of Mythsbusters where all three of the JV team got hypnotized by one of these stage performers. I wouldn't hink they are faking it. They didn't have them sdo anything out of the ordinary, but they did seem to demonstrate to some degree that in their hypnotizzed state they were able to remember details they couldn't rmember otherwise.

[CaerieD]

A girl I went to school with was pulled up on stage and hypnotized to not see the color red or anything that was colored red. I suppose it's possible she was taken aside before the show somehow--I hadn't exactly been keeping an eye on her--but she insisted it was legitimate. She's not a very good liar, so I was inclined to believe her.

[friedo]

or maybe they were just eager to play along.


I think that's most of it. The act, combined with the relaxed state, gives you a good excuse to make an ass of yourself in a consequence-free environment. After all, you've been hypnotized!

[Menocchio]

I've been hypnotized on stage. I wasn't a shill, exactly, but I was a willing participant.

I know at all times what was going on. I certainly didn't actually believe that I was ever Britney Spears, but I was much less self-conscious about the act I was doing than I would be otherwise. I was more suggestible, but never out of control. I remember everything that happened, and I don't think he could have made me not see red or anything, but I would have acted like I didn't.

So yeah, it's real, for certain values of real.

[jsc1953]

A girl I went to school with was pulled up on stage and hypnotized to not see the color red or anything that was colored red.

In the act I saw, a woman was programmed to skip the number 8. A few minutes later, she was asked how many fingers she had -- 10, of course -- and then to count them. She went ..."6, 7, 9, 10..." and then appeared genuinely confused when she had a finger left over. "...11?"

It was a very entertaining show, and my curiosity is piqued.

[GuanoLad]

When you're successfully hypnotised, your resistance to things breaks down. What you would perhaps not normally do in public, you now decide would be a pretty fun idea, and why not play up to the crowd while you're there?

That's what hypnotism is. It's not convincing you that you're a chicken, it's utilising this broken down resistance to have you feel that entertaining the crowd with the suggestions presented to you would be a fun idea. It's like you're drunk, but without the loss of motor control.

That's why a lot of people afterward think they weren't hypnotised and were just playing along - they were, but it wasn't quite as voluntary as they think.

[sciguy]

If by "legit" you mean "are those actually normal, non-plant audience members doing all that crazy stuff" then the answer is (probably): yes.

I've never been a participant, but I have seen a few stage hypnotists. And in at least two cases I knew a majority of the participants fairly well. While I was a freshman in college, a hypnotist did a show at our school, and one guy who was brought up was a friend of mine (let's call him "J"). At one point the hypnotist had all the guys go up and made them believe that they were Chippendale dancers, and J. was definitely the one getting into it the most. Especially when he went to undo his pants :D . Needless to say, the hypnotist ran to him pretty quick with a "you want to go sit down now" command. It was a fairly small school, and while I didn't know everyone on stage personally, I did recognize everyone.

A few years later, that same hypnotist came back to do another show. When he pulled susceptable people up at the start, J. was again included. As J. came on stage, the hypnotist did a small double-take, and then commented "Oh, I remember you". :)

[Ferret Herder]

I watched a recent episode of Mythsbusters where all three of the JV team got hypnotized by one of these stage performers. I wouldn't hink they are faking it. They didn't have them sdo anything out of the ordinary, but they did seem to demonstrate to some degree that in their hypnotizzed state they were able to remember details they couldn't rmember otherwise.
To add to this - the hypnotist tried to implant "subconscious triggers" in the most susceptible member (Grant, IIRC), but failed as he not only remembered the coaching for the triggers but also failed to carry out the instructions when the triggers happened. They tried again on a crew member, telling her only that she would be getting hypnosis for treating a bad habit of hers, and when it came time to tell her the trigger, the crew member said she didn't think that was a good idea.

The recall test was well done as they were asked to write down answers to straightforward questions about events that actually happened (they saw a staged confrontation between Jamie and two "deliverymen"), and did better when hypnotized than when not. I suspect they could have reproduced the suggestion effect if they had asked leading questions - a criticism of using hypnosis in for "recovered memory" therapy.

[MovieMogul]

They had one perform at our high school, so I knew a large percentage of the subjects on stage, and they were definitely not shills (unless they planned it well in advance, since I spent all day with them in class that day before the show).

Although there were some volunteers who were deemed "unsuitable", there were also a few members of the audience who didn't volunteer but were hypnotized anyway and so were brought on stage to join the rest of the volunteers.

[TimeWinder]

I watched a recent episode of Mythsbusters where all three of the JV team got hypnotized by one of these stage performers. I wouldn't hink they are faking it. They didn't have them sdo anything out of the ordinary, but they did seem to demonstrate to some degree that in their hypnotizzed state they were able to remember details they couldn't rmember otherwise.

They didn't, though. What they actually demonstrated was that in much more relaxed circumstances, and after more than a day of additional reflection, the JV team was able to remember more than they were right after the event, "on the spot."

Far more controls were needed to make that anything like a legitimate experiment, and I suspect they'll be revisiting it later.

[Shawn1767]

Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullshit where they examined hypnotism. What they went in to discredit was the "past-life regression" and "use hypnotism to stop smoking/eating" forms of hypnotism. They mentioned stage hypnotism and were pretty much okay with it as a from of entertainment. They really didn't discredit that form. I went to a stage hypnotism show in college and, as above, knew some of the people who were onstage and knew they would not have acted the way they did unless they were in some form of highly suggestible state. It was pretty funny and it seemed almost too perfectly timed to have been "gone over beforehand" for some of the commands. There was no "lag time" as it were if it had been the case where they had to remember what to do when the hypnotist said certain things. Does that make sense?

[Roboto]

I was picked to go on stage, and I was faking the whole time. The hypontist failed to dismiss me as a faker, but my friends could tell I was faking. I was never approached by the hypnitist before hand.

The second time I went, my friend went on stage and faked it too. So my only 2 credible sources I know, myself and my friend, were faking the whole time.

[Ronald Salmond, MD]

GuanoLad wrote:
When you're successfully hypnotised (sic) your resistance to things breaks down. What you would perhaps not normally do in public, you now decide would be a pretty fun idea, and why not play up to the crowd while you're there?

That's what hypnotism is. It's not convincing you that you're a chicken, it's utilising (sic) this broken down resistance to have you feel that entertaining the crowd with the suggestions presented to you would be a fun idea. It's like you're drunk, but without the loss of motor control.

That's why a lot of people afterward think they weren't hypnotized and were just playing along - they were, but it wasn't quite as voluntary as they think.

I concur with most of what you wrote but would like to clarify your definition of the hypnotic state. I've had training in hypnosis and practice self hypnosis regularly. The hypnotic state is an altered state of consciousness characterized by " enhanced susceptibility to suggestion". Many people mistakenly draw an analogy between sleep and hypnosis. Hypnosis is not a sleep state. Subjects often times will fall asleep during the induction, but this is actual sleep and not the hypnotic state. Many people undergo hypnosis and don't even recognize that they entered the hypnotic state, and that they have been given a hypnotic suggestion. The best analogy I can give you for what the hypnotic state is like is the situation most of us have experienced when we are driving to a destination and loose our perspective of time. You arrive at the destination and wonder, how you got there so quickly, or you don't remember passing known landmarks along the route. Another analogy is the situation of finding yourself at a red light and loosing your perspective of time only to notice that the light has now turned to green and cars that you where behind are now many car lengths ahead of you, or realizing that the person behind you is now honking their horn because you haven't paid attention to the red light having changed to green.

I'd also like to emphasize that although hypnosis is associated with enhanced susceptibility to suggestion, you can not be compelled to do something against your morals under hypnosis. This is a common misconception.

[Kythereia]

The best analogy I can give you for what the hypnotic state is like is the situation most of us have experienced when we are driving to a destination and loose our perspective of time. You arrive at the destination and wonder, how you got there so quickly, or you don't remember passing known landmarks along the route.

It's called highway hypnosis, and it's related to the phenomenon of how words become unfamiliar and look/sound strange if you read them over and over (there's a specific word for this, but I can't remember it) and hypnagogic hallucinations--the funny dreams you get, prompted by things / people / surroundings in real life, just between waking and sleep.

I had to do a science fair project on this :) The brain can do strange, strange things...

[GuanoLad]

(sic)
I'm from Australia (actually, New Zealand originally) and those words were spelled correctly, thank you very much.

[JThunder]

To add to this - the hypnotist tried to implant "subconscious triggers" in the most susceptible member (Grant, IIRC), but failed as he not only remembered the coaching for the triggers but also failed to carry out the instructions when the triggers happened. They tried again on a crew member...
A producer. She was one of the show's producers, not a crew member.

[Ferret Herder]

A producer. She was one of the show's producers, not a crew member.
Ah right. Perhaps I'd have remembered that correctly if I'd been hypnotized. ;)

[Little Bird]

I was "stage hypnotized." For myself (and, I expect for everyone else ever) it's a simple matter of: I get to be on stage, act like a complete ass, get a ton of attention and praise, and then pretend I wasn't in control of myself so no one can make fun of me? I'm in!

I think some people may have monologue that go on in a more sub conscious manner, but as far as I know, that's all stage hypnosis is. Tons of fun, tho.

[Musicat]

At a New Year's Eve party many years ago, I went onstage with hypnotist Richard De La Font (http://www.delafont.com/hypnotists/richard-de-la-font.htm). I was one of the people he dismissed as unsuitable.What made you unsuitable?

[pinkfreud]

What made you unsuitable?He didn't say, so I have no idea why the hypnotist thought I was unsuitable. Maybe he didn't like redheads.

[Musicat]

He didn't say, so I have no idea why the hypnotist thought I was unsuitable. Maybe he didn't like redheads.I was wondering if you refused to do something or expressed skepticism in some manner that marked you as someone who wouldn't play along.

[Snooooopy]

I'm from Australia (actually, New Zealand originally) and those words were spelled correctly, thank you very much.

What's funny is that he just got tired of typing out "sic" and just went ahead and made the change to "hypnotized" in the last paragraph.

[ianzin]

We've done this relatively recently. Twice.

Hypnotism: how real is it? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377073)
You wouldn't do anything under hypnosis... (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366175)
And, just to 'cut to the chase', a specific single post of mine from that second thread:
Some facts about hypnosis (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7270519&postcount=10)


I've had training in hypnosis and practice self hypnosis regularly. The hypnotic state is an altered state of consciousness characterized by " enhanced susceptibility to suggestion". *sigh* No, it isn't. There is no altered state of consciousness. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever to back up this utterly baseless claim. Stage hypnosis works because some people enjoy being given permission to do silly things and be stars for a while, using their imagination to comply with suggestions. So-called 'therapeutic' hypnosis is a pleasant experience for the same reason as many other therapies, ie it's relaxing and someone is taking a genial, good-natured interest in you, and it's effective only to the same extent as any other form of what sociologists call 'ritual magic' ie it works because you believe it works.
The best analogy I can give you for what the hypnotic state is like is the situation most of us have experienced when we are driving to a destination and loose our perspective of time. If that's the best, I'd hate to see the worst. There is no comparison here. When you drive a familiar route, you sometimes pay little attention because the required brain functions have become 'chunked' (look it up) to the level where very little conscious attention is required. So your mind is free to thnk about other things. No special state of consciousness. Just normal consciousness, doing something that happens normally when one task is very familiar and routine.

[Mangetout]

I have heard lots of people say all that happened to them is that they felt like playing along with the ruse and so hypnotism is just an erosion of the inhibitions or something - however, I believe specific cases (such as the woman who was made to forget the number 8) don't fit into this explanation at all - I can't help wondering if the 'Yeah, I knew what was happening all the time and played along' thing is actually a fiction woven by the mind, because the alternative ('I was not in control') is uncomfortable.

[Mangetout]

When you drive a familiar route, you sometimes pay little attention because the required brain functions have become 'chunked' (look it up) to the level where very little conscious attention is required. So your mind is free to thnk about other things. No special state of consciousness. Just normal consciousness, doing something that happens normally when one task is very familiar and routine.Still, if that sort of thing happens, then it's entirely plausible that other 'chunked' complex actions could be set in motion by very small and subtle triggers, against the apparent volition of the subject.

[C3]

I used to have a roommate who did hypnosis for terminally ill patients as a form of pain control. She dated a stage hypnotist for awhile, so he used to hang out at our house and we used to go to his shows. As far as I know it was legit and "loss of inhibitions" was what was going on. I never participated in his shows, but I did allow my roommate to hypnotize me one night when I was really homesick. As other people have said above, I was completely aware of my surroundings and what was going on, but I was just in this deep, very relaxed state and I was able to sort of visualize myself doing what I wanted to be doing in a very, to my mind, realistic way. It was pretty cool and I could definitely see how hypnotism could be useful in a pain management context.

Incidentally, the stage hypnotist I knew was really freaky and my roommate ended up breaking up with him because he was cheating on her....with his sister (he met her for the first time as an adult, but still).

[Colophon]

I've volunteered twice for stage hypnosis shows and both times have been weeded out as "unsuitable" after a few minutes. Everyone that I know personally who has volunteered has also been rejected as unsuitable (about four or five people).

Whether this means that the others are somehow "in on it" I can't say, but I do find it odd that people on this thread admit to "faking it", or at least "playing along". If I'm going to get hypnotised to do stuff, I don't want to have to "play along"! I guess that's what makes me unsuitable, though :)

I guess approaching it with an analytical mind to see how the hypnosis works, as I did, immediately makes it unlikely that it will work...

[Turek]

That's why a lot of people afterward think they weren't hypnotised and were just playing along - they were, but it wasn't quite as voluntary as they think.

I just hypnotized you. I know you don't THINK that you were hypnotized, but trust me, you were. :rolleyes:

[GuanoLad]

I just hypnotized you. I know you don't THINK that you were hypnotized, but trust me, you were. :rolleyes:
Huh? What point are you trying to make?

[Skammer]

re: the quit smoking/drinking hypnosis. My dad was a heavy, 2 pack/day smoker for decades, from his time in the Navy in the '50s into the late 80's. He tried many times to quit, unsuccessfully. Then one day his workplace went smoke-free, and offered free hypnosis therapy to any employees who wanted it.

I remember when the got home after his session. "Did it work?" I asked. "No," he said. "I don't think I was hypnotized. And I still want a cigarette as badly as ever." But despite what he admitted were constant cravings, he never smoked again.

So one anecdote is not evidence, but from personal experience I am reluctant to dismiss this technique altogether.

[Kythereia]

If that's the best, I'd hate to see the worst. There is no comparison here. When you drive a familiar route, you sometimes pay little attention because the required brain functions have become 'chunked' (look it up) to the level where very little conscious attention is required. So your mind is free to thnk about other things. No special state of consciousness. Just normal consciousness, doing something that happens normally when one task is very familiar and routine.

I just looked up chunking and that is pretty cool. :)

Highway hypnosis is a recorded phenomenon, though. When you've been driving for a long while, or doing something mundane over and over, it's an example of automaticity: your conscious self, focused elsewhere, dissociates from the subconscious, and weird things happen (white-line fever).

I'm not sure about being compelled to do anything under hypnosis, but strange things do happen.

[don't ask]

Years ago I learned hypnosis from a former stage hypnotist. He happened to be friends with the family of a guy I worked with and several of us from work were invited around to meet him. There were hordes of people in this little suburban home and he started holding court demonstrating hypnosis and giving people suggestions and all of us were participants and audience combined. This went on all day into the evening.

For a group of us this became our regular weekend activity. For weeks we would spend all day, with a varying group of other people, being repeatedly hypnotised, given suggestions, having guided meditations and trying all kinds of experiments.

For economy at the end of the day the hypnotist would put everyone under, remove any stage suggestions he had given and leave some general beneficial suggestions.

Over a period of months these sessions became so popular, by word of mouth, that they had to be conducted at the YMCA. My friends and I had not been for months and some of us dropped in to see how the "new class" was going (and check out the girls - there were always lots).

The hypnotist had some people up on stage and was telling one guy, "Soon I will awaken you and you will feel great but whenever you hear me say the word jungle you will become Tarzan and start beating your chest ...."

I was paying little attention but as soon as he said the word "jungle" I was up on my feet beating my chest and making Tarzan's call. While I was in my now hypnotic state he made a joke about it all and removed the suggestion. Eventually we worked out that some weeks before I had left early one afternoon and not had my suggestion removed in the mass removal.

[Baldwin]

GuanoLad wrote:


I concur with most of what you wrote but would like to clarify your definition of the hypnotic state. I've had training in hypnosis and practice self hypnosis regularly. The hypnotic state is an altered state of consciousness characterized by " enhanced susceptibility to suggestion". Many people mistakenly draw an analogy between sleep and hypnosis. Hypnosis is not a sleep state. Subjects often times will fall asleep during the induction, but this is actual sleep and not the hypnotic state. Many people undergo hypnosis and don't even recognize that they entered the hypnotic state, and that they have been given a hypnotic suggestion. The best analogy I can give you for what the hypnotic state is like is the situation most of us have experienced when we are driving to a destination and loose our perspective of time. You arrive at the destination and wonder, how you got there so quickly, or you don't remember passing known landmarks along the route. Another analogy is the situation of finding yourself at a red light and loosing your perspective of time only to notice that the light has now turned to green and cars that you where behind are now many car lengths ahead of you, or realizing that the person behind you is now honking their horn because you haven't paid attention to the red light having changed to green.

I'd also like to emphasize that although hypnosis is associated with enhanced susceptibility to suggestion, you can not be compelled to do something against your morals under hypnosis. This is a common misconception.From now on, you will spell the word losing correctly. You will do this every time, except when you are correcting somebody else's spelling. Excellent.

[Chronos]

Another thing to note about stage hypnotists: Notice that they always have a large group of people (10-20) on stage at once. First of all, this helps to relax inhibitions against looking like a fool: It's a lot more comfortable to look like a fool if there are 19 other fools up there with you. Second, they only need one or two to get really interesting, and steal the show: It doesn't matter if most of the folks on stage are fairly boring.

[jsc1953]

Second, they only need one or two to get really interesting, and steal the show: It doesn't matter if most of the folks on stage are fairly boring.

This was the case with my show. I wondered if those one or two were the shills; the consensus here appears to be that they were merely the least inhibited.

[ianzin]

Skammer - I'm not suggesting anyone should dismiss anything. I didn't say that so-called therapeutic hypnosis doesn't work. I'm stating that it can work, in some cases, but only for the same reason and in the same way as any other type of 'ritual magic'.

Some people also manage to quit smoking through an NLP session, an aromatherapy session, a session with a witch doctor, a remote 'session' conducted by a reiki practitioner, by focusing on a needle placed by an acupuncturist, by drinking water dressed up as a homeopathic 'cure', and in countless other ways.

All of these practices are just 'ritual magic' in practice. The two hallmarks of ritual magic are (a) they only ever work on people who believe in them (as opposed to ibuprofen, for example, which will affect even people who don't believe in it), and (b) you can tinker with the specifics of the 'practice' or 'therapy' all you like, and it makes no difference to the results (example: you can stick the needles exactly where acupuncture theory suggests they should not go, and your success rate will be exactly the same).

Why does ritual magic work? Interesting question. We don't know. The subject's belief (the belief they invest in the so-called therapy or ritual) seems to work as a stepping stone or a bridge to accessing / triggering their own capacity to achieve a change in behaviour or patterned response. I would say the capacity is there all along, but the participation in the ritual makes it more accessible for reasons we don't yet fully understand.

But... getting back to hypnosis... it's definitely nothing - nothing at all - to do with altered states of mind, altered or different states of consciousness, or states of mind in which someone else controls what the subject does, thinks, feels or experiences.

[Kythereia]

But... getting back to hypnosis... it's definitely nothing - nothing at all - to do with altered states of mind, altered or different states of consciousness, or states of mind in which someone else controls what the subject does, thinks, feels or experiences.

Am I right in asking if you're distinguishing between stage / practical hypnosis, in which the hypnotizer compels you to do something, and a hypnotic state?

Because there's evidence of people going into hypnotic states, but whether they can be compelled to do something in this state is a lot more questionable...

[Sam Stone]

Is the hypnotic state anything like being in the 'zone' when playing sports, painting, etc? In "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain", the author talks about getting into a state where you start seeing things differently. She says that in this state, we have a hard time recognizing the passage of time.

I've routinely gotten into that zone when playing pool or doing other things which I have practiced repeatedly. I'll be playing, and suddenly everything seems much easier - when I shoot, I KNOW I'm going to make the shot. In the 'zone', I play at a way higher level than I do when I'm feeling normal. And sure enough, you do lose track of time.

I've been in that state when drawing things, or doing heavy programming tasks. Your perception subtly shifts, and you start performing at a much higher level. I've been shocked to look at the time and see that hours have passed when I thought it was only minutes.

[TimeWinder]

...there's evidence of people going into hypnotic states, but ...

I think you've nailed the fundamental problem in this discussion. No one's really defined "altered state of consciousness" or "hypnotic state" very well. If one "feels different," is that enough? If different brain wave types dominate, does that mean anything? Both these things happen during plenty of non-hypnotic activity, as well.

There's lots of anecdotes in this thread about "entering the hypnotic state" but "not being able to be compelled to do anything." Evidence for compelling people to perform actions under hypnosis that they'd be "morally unwilling" to perform normally is very weak. Evidence for people remembering better is very weak. Evidence for suggestibility (creating false memories, in particular) is strong, but conversational suggestibility is pretty common, anyway.

So to really get at this, we need to define exactly what we're claiming a hypnotic state allows, that a non-hypnotic state doesn't, and be pretty rigorous about it. I don't think we've done that yet. Casual use of the term for possibly unrelated phenomenon like "highway hypnosis" confuses the issue for now; we can decide whether that's true hypnosis after we define what true hypnosis is.

In particular, many folks claim that being "under hypnosis" is easily faked, and a few claim that it's difficult to know when it's happened to you. So exactly what properties to we look for in order to construct a test to know when someone is "really hypnotized?"

[FRDE]

I would be very careful with the use of hypnotism.

Maybe someone will recognize what I'm talking about. There is a form of hypnotism that is used on highly trained soldiers when they leave the service. I know the name for it, but don't know how I know it.

In 1986 I figured out something that would be highly destructive and told my uncle, he became agitated and said I must not talk about it to anyone, I must not even think about it. I completely forgot about it. I know that he was interested in hypnotism.

In early 2001 I found I was talking to a guy who used to be one of the highly trained soldiers - to put it crudely he mistook me for one of his own - I was quite surprized and asked him a few questions (I was thinking about the hypnotism trick).

From then on I had the feeling of having forgotten something, and in 2004 someone said something that made me remember what I had told my uncle 18 years before. It was like a cloud clearing - and there is no way I would have forgotten it.

I've always been very wary of hypnotism, although to my knowledge I've not experienced it - apart from Yoga 'talkdowns' - and demonstrating one of those to friends, I put a room of people to sleep.

I'm pretty sure that my uncle got someone to put a block on my memory, I can't think of any other explanation.

I know of two other instances, one was the husband of a friend of a friend. He visited a hypnotist to quit smoking. He had been pretty depressed. On the way home he jumped in front of a train. He lost one arm and one leg, but lived. The other instance was a suicide, I can't prove it but the hypnotist concerned ducked right out of sight for a year and her behaviour confirms my suspicion.

[flight]

Is the hypnotic state anything like being in the 'zone' when playing sports, painting, etc? In "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain", the author talks about getting into a state where you start seeing things differently. She says that in this state, we have a hard time recognizing the passage of time.I really enjoyed that book back in junior high. I should see if I can get a copy again. Her technique on changing how you look at the world and reducing it to two dimensional lines really helped my drawing abilities.

[ianzin]

This Board is still all about fighting ignorance, isn't it?
There is a form of hypnotism that is used on highly trained soldiers when they leave the service. No, there isn't. The idea that, via hypnosis, anyone can be made to forget something that they would otherwise remember and want to remember, is incorrect. Read my earlier posts. Stage hypnosis works by willing and conscious compliance, and the opportunity to have fun, be silly and be a star. Therapeutic hypnosis is just one form of ritual magic. That's all there is.
I'm pretty sure that my uncle got someone to put a block on my memory, I can't think of any other explanation. No, he didn't. Because there is no process or mechanism which could work as you claim/describe. Every beginner's class on 'critical thinking skills' includes the lesson that just because you can't think of another explanation, this doesn't mean there isn't one. Back in the 70s lots of people believed spoon-bending must be psychic because they couldn't figure out how the trick was done.
friend of a friend. So now we're discussing urban legends?
He visited a hypnotist to quit smoking. He had been pretty depressed. On the way home he jumped in front of a train. Back to basic critical thinking skills. You might want to look up a common logical fallacy called 'Post hoc ergo prompter hoc'. Stage hypnotists have to contend with this kind of poor thinking all the time. Someone goes to see a show by a singer. On the way back they have a car crash - no-one ever thinks of blaming the singer. Someone goes to see a show by a hypnotist. On the way back they have a car crash - and some people instantly assume there could be a connection. No, there couldn't. Because there is no causal mechanism between the two.
I can't prove it / her behaviour confirms my suspicion. No, it doesn't. Her behaviour may be consistent with your suspicion, but your suspicion could be entirely baseless all the same. I could accuse my newsagent of being a Russian spy, who is very careful never to speak Russian so as to not give the game away. The fact that he never speaks Russian is consistent with my dumb theory, but my theory is still a dumb one.

[Mangetout]

This Board is still all about fighting ignorance, isn't it?
No, there isn't. The idea that, via hypnosis, anyone can be made to forget something that they would otherwise remember and want to remember, is incorrect. Read my earlier posts. Stage hypnosis works by willing and conscious compliance, and the opportunity to have fun, be silly and be a star. Therapeutic hypnosis is just one form of ritual magic. That's all there is.I completely respect your extensive experience in these fields, but I have to ask - do you think willing and conscious compliance is an adequate explanation for such examples as the woman who was (apparently) made to forget the existence of a certain number, then asked to count her fingers - when I saw this in a documentary (I forget which - it was some years ago - the programme may have been Horizon), the subject appeared to display genuine perplexity and anxiety at not being able to count properly.

Of course I understand anxiety and perplexity can be convincingly faked.

[Charger]

I had the pleasure of seeing my sister-in-law (among several other volunteers) hypnotized by a stage hypnotist several years ago. She had been given a post-hypnotic suggestion to stand up and sing the Hallelujah chorus when she heard him say the name of the University. When the time came, she jumped up and sang it loud. But then she looked around all embarrassed and shocked. I asked her about it a few years ago and she said that she couldn't help it and that she was shocked that she involuntarily started singing in front of a crowd.

This is an intriguing topic, to say the least.

[RickJay]

I've been in that state when drawing things, or doing heavy programming tasks. Your perception subtly shifts, and you start performing at a much higher level. I've been shocked to look at the time and see that hours have passed when I thought it was only minutes.
Sounds like how I get when playing "Civilization."

[Mangetout]

Surely if you thought only minutes had passed when it was in fact hours, that would mean you're performing at a much lower level - after several hours, I'd expect to know it was hours by virtue of having achieved hours worth of work.

[Liberal]

This Board is still all about fighting ignorance, isn't it?Yes, it is. While I have no quarrel with your objections to what people are saying about hypnosis, I do want to make a point about analogics.

In an earlier post, you had struck down an analogy someone made by saying that something particular about it was different from hypnosis, and then declared that on that basis there was no comparison at all. But that's what analogics are for: comparing two things that aren't the same thing. Yes, with analogics, you CAN compare apples and oranges. Both are fruits, for example. Both grow on trees.

If two things are the same in every way, then they aren't analogous — they're identical.

[johnsonlnl]

At the risk of being mocked and/or attracting unwanted attention, I'm going to share a short story.

I will preface this by saying that I personally feel that a lot of stage hypnosis involves people that are just more willing than most to make complete fools of themselves.

However, in my late teens/early 20's, I played around with hypnosis. I had a girlfriend at the time that was what a stage hypnotist would call 'very susceptible.' I honed my technique on her. It got to the point where I could put her "under" (whatever you want to call it) with just a few choice words. I mostly did suggestions of relaxation, and/or horniness (oh, come on - I was about 20 at the time!) As we progressed, I did play around with some of the standard stage hypnosis stuff.

All of this went pretty well and was quite a bit of fun. I usually ended each time with something like 'you will waking up feeling relaxed and refreshed' and the GF always claimed that's how she felt. She was definitely a willing participant.

However, one night, I decided to play with a more devious post hypnotic suggestion. I told her that when she heard the word 'dog' she would say 'woof' Later that night, I told her a joke whose punch line was something about a dog. She started laughing. Then, right in the middle of her laughing, she let out a half laugh/half 'woof'. The immediate look of shock and surprise on her face indicated that she was not a willing participant at that point.

There were no more hypnosis sessions after that. We broke up a few months later. Looking back, I think her level of trust in me went from 'total' to 'none' in that split second that she let out that woof.

I don't have any proof that hypnosis does or doesn't work. I don't have any suggestions of what exactly hypnosis might or might not be. I hadn't even thought about this for a few years. I just thought the story was worth sharing. Draw whatever conclusions you would like from it.

[Kalhoun]

It was pretty cool and I could definitely see how hypnotism could be useful in a pain management context.


Back in 1960, my mom underwent hypnosis for a drug-free birth. They put her under and stuck pins in her to the point that she bled, and she didn't feel anything. The birth went without a hitch, and pain-free. I guess they got her to concentrate her mind away from the pain. My dad was amazed by how cool it was.

[Mangetout]

That's acupuncture, isn't it? Or were the pins just to prove that it was working?

[Doctor Who]

Yes, it is. While I have no quarrel with your objections to what people are saying about hypnosis, I do want to make a point about analogics.

In an earlier post, you had struck down an analogy someone made by saying that something particular about it was different from hypnosis, and then declared that on that basis there was no comparison at all. But that's what analogics are for: comparing two things that aren't the same thing. Yes, with analogics, you CAN compare apples and oranges. Both are fruits, for example. Both grow on trees.

If two things are the same in every way, then they aren't analogous — they're identical.
But in this case - ianzin was not saying "oh, you cannot use an analogy to compare the two!" He was saying - your analogy assumes something that is false. (Specifically - that "chunking" is an altered state of consciousness).

In your example, you mentioned apples and oranges. Both are fruit - ok, we've found some similarity to compare them. It seems to me that ianzin's point was that the analogy given was like comparing apples and racecars and saying both are fruit. Of course you can use an analogy to compare them - but you cannot say that both are fruit because it's untrue.

On to the specifics:

Here, the comparison was between "losing" perspective of time when driving to a destination, and a hypnotic state. The similarity being that they are both special, altered forms of consciousness.

The point that ianzin made was that this is a bad comparison because they are NOT both special, altered forms of consciousness. Hypnosis may be (that's debatable to say the least), but losing perspective of time on a driving trip is "normal consciousness, doing something that happens normally when one task if very familiar and routine." Quote from ianzin, underlining mine.

Thus, while your primer might be helpful in another case, I'm not sure it's so helpful here.

[Liberal]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, Doctor Who. :) It's just a pet peeve of mine when people knock down an analogy basically by saying that it isn't identical in every way with its analog. Yes, if the point of the analogy was that both are altered states of consciousness, then the analogy was flawed. My apologies to Ianzin.

[Mangetout]

That one bugs me too, Lib, but it is one of the inherent dangers of trying to use analogies and is a good reason why they shouldn't really be used in arguments/debates at all (not that this case is necessarily an argument).

[Kalhoun]

That's acupuncture, isn't it? Or were the pins just to prove that it was working?
This was just to prove it was working.

[Hilarity N. Suze]

Here is my hypnotism story. My husband and I went to one of those stage shows. We were not selected as subjects, but we got to hear the whole spiel. So we went home, and then I, sort of as a joke, applied the techniques to my husband. "You are in a place of relaxation...you will get up half an hour before your usual rising time and you will cook eggs, bacon, and hash browns..." From the point of relaxation through all the steps of cooking breakfast.

Then I went off to sleep, visualizing that I would get a nice breakfast the next morning.

Big surprise. I woke up half an hour early, I got up, went downstairs, put the coffee on, broke eggs into a bowl, etc., etc.

This was not routine. I don't wake up without a lot of prodding and I don't cook. Did I hypnotize myself? I mean, I was expecting it to work on him.

[flight]

No, but it sounds like you really put yourself in the mood for breakfast.

When you see a commercial for a snickers, and though you almost never have them you suddenly get an urge for one, did they hypnotize you?