Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler

[Gadarene]

As per fluiddruid's post here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8474299&postcount=181), the Powers That Be have given us permission to start a new game of Mafia even as the last one (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414041) continues its behemoth sprawl towards the three thousand post mark and beyond. Everyone who is understandably blocking that thread from their memory can refresh themselves as to the rules and general gameplay here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=407197).

In any event, I'll do my damnedest to keep this iteration of the game comparatively sleek and whippet-quick, starting with a 20-player limit on sign-ups. fluiddruid and NAF1138 (who's done a fantastic job with the current game) have already RSVPed, so there are eighteen slots left for interested players. Post in this thread if you want to play, and once we've got our quota, I'll PM everyone with a confirmation and your game character. Roles are going to be relatively by-the-book, although I've got at least one wrinkle in mind that wasn't implemented in either of the previous threads.

The game will begin once we've hit our twenty players; if we get less interest than that, sign-ups will close sometime Wednesday evening. Preference for playing will be given to people who aren't currently involved in the other game; I think that's the fairest way to do it. If there are a ton of new players, I'll also give preference to people who haven't participated in the most recent thread at all. And, as always, if you've got questions at any point, feel free to ask. This should be a lot of fun. :)

[CaerieD]

I'm in...and hoping I last a bit longer this time!

[NAF1138]

I think I can play one and mod one at the same time. Not quite as crazy over there as it once was.

Oh... I see a spot was already saved, thank you much!


I promise I won't keep editing

[Gadarene]

NAF1138:
I promise I won't keep editing

:D :D :D :D

Hilarious.

(Also, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies has RSVPed, so there are now sixteen slots to be filled.)

[Hal Briston]

Woohoo! I'm in!

I didn't start reading the Werewolf thread until a few about a week ago, and have been kicking myself for not picking up on this earlier.

[nesta]

I'd like to play if there's a slot for me. I'm still having withdrawals not being able to post in the current game threads.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Once more into the breech!

[fluiddruid]

Hello all, I look forward to advocating your summary executions. :)

[Projammer]

Let's see. I'm sure I'll be able to function on 2 hours of sleep instead of the normal 4.

*Tosses hat in ring*

[percypercy]

I want in, please.

[SnakesCatLady]

I'd like to try - email is in the profile.

[Gadarene]

I'm heading out for the evening---might as well try to have a life before the game begins and I'm tethered to my computer---so here's the sign-up list so far:

1. fluiddruid
2. NAF1138
3. CaerieD*
4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies*
5. Hal Briston
6. nesta*
7. Projammer
8. percypercy
9. SnakesCatLady

Eleven more slots to fill. The three asterisked players participated in the last (and current) game, but despite what I said in the OP I'm strongly inclined to let them play regardless how many new posters express interest, because none of them had such a dominant and active role as to twig my fairness radar. Now, if Queuing or Blaster Master or JSexton or one of the other wonderfully prolific posters from the other game (like me, if I wasn't running this thing) comes trundling in here, it might be a different story, preference-wise. :) But we'll cross that bridge when we, y'know, do.

[glee]

I'd like to play (it would only be my second game!)

If you think I'm too 'prolific', or if there are even more deserving players, I could act as a reserve (I think both SDMB games have needed one).

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Not that it really matters (since I already made the cut) but I only played in the original game, not the second game/trainwreck that is still currently ongoing.

Just in case anyone might happen to think that I sucked so badly in the 2nd game, that they couldn't even remember me playing. ;)

[Lightnin']

Oh, what the heck- I'll give it a shot, if you still have room (and forgive the pun).

[Lemur866]

I haven't read the whole other thread, but I'll play.

[NAF1138]

I haven't read the whole other thread, but I'll play.
Don't blame you. I haven't read all of it and I am running the damned thing.

[glee]

Don't blame you. I haven't read all of it and I am running the damned thing.

Actually NAF, I have a rules query...

[NAF1138]

Actually NAF, I have a rules query...
That's enough out of you! :p

[Achren]

I've never played before, but I'd like to give it a try if there's room!

[percussion]

in?

[Millit the Frail]

Please count me in!

I started the other threads a few weeks ago and I'm hooked. :)

[Rachm Qoch]

Slumbers up to the table...
Deal me in!

[DiggitCamara]

I'd like to join, too!

[dnooman]

I'll play or sub. Technically I didn't get to play in the last game.

[Kyrie Eleison]

If there's room, I'd like to play. Ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!

[Omi no Kami]

Oh, I'll play!

[Omi no Kami]

Oh, I'll play!

Lor that was close... if I counted right, I squeaked into the very last spot. 0_0

[Kat]

Is there gonna be a Forbidden Thread for this game? If so, I'll supply the nachoes. ;)

It'll be fun to read the Forbidden Thread during the game, instead of after.

[Idle Thoughts]

Oy, I hope I'm in time for this one actually now. Hahaha.

[Idle Thoughts]

Lor that was close... if I counted right, I squeaked into the very last spot. 0_0

Hahah, if that's the case then I'm 0-3 currently for getting in on time. :p (however with my record, I'm steadily improving, missing the first one by 30 or so posts, the second by 7 or so, and this one by just one. That means next sign up I might have a good chance to be the first poster. :eek: )

[Omi no Kami]

Hahah, if that's the case then I'm 0-3 currently for getting in on time. :p (however with my record, I'm steadily improving, missing the first one by 30 or so posts, the second by 7 or so, and this one by just one. That means next sign up I might have a good chance to be the first poster. :eek: )

Make sure you poke our benevolent and (hopefully) compassionate narrator for a slot on the waiting list! Sometimes people get kicked for not participating, so you never know. :)

[Blaster Master]

Hmm... I'd like to play. And if there's not room, I'd like to be an alternate. I promise to play nice.

[Malacandra]

I think I'd like to GM one of these some time. A Tolkien theme would be nice. I'd also like to join in this one but next week I may be incommunicado as the family's off to Centre Parcs and I can't tell from the brochure if there's internet access on site. If it's not OK for me to be out for 4-5 calendar days then that's fine by me.

[tirial]

Drat! Didn't see the thread until all the places were gone <mutters>.

Any chance of a spot on the waiting list as an alternate? I promise not to lurk.

[Gadarene]

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies:
Not that it really matters (since I already made the cut) but I only played in the original game, not the second game/trainwreck that is still currently ongoing.

Whoops! I had you mixed up with One and Only Wanderers, who made a very brief appearance last game. My apologies.

Player (and alternate) list coming up next post.

[ArizonaTeach]

Good luck to you all...

And hey, why is our game being called a trainwreck!?!

Although, 20 players is far, far more sensible in hindsight...

[Gadarene]

Okay! Looks like we've got as many people as we need.


1. fluiddruid
2. NAF1138
3. CaerieD
4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
5. Hal Briston
6. nesta
7. Projammer
8. percypercy
9. SnakesCatLady
10. Lightnin'
11. Lemur866
12. Achren
13. percussion
14. Millit the Frail
15. Rachm Qoch
16. DiggitCamara
17. dnooman
18. Kyrie Eleison
19. Omi No Kami
20. Idle Thoughts

And here's our list of reserves, to be subbed in as needed. I'll be instituting a similar "no lurking" rule as NAF did last time, so we may need you folk.

1. glee
2. Blaster Master
3. tirial
4. Malacandra

If anyone else wants to be put on the reserve list, let me know.

My judge has a brief hearing right now, but afterwards I'll be back with a description of the various possible roles and such. After that, I'll PM everyone with their role assignments. When I do, write me back to confirm...and once everyone's done that, the game will be afoot.

[Gadarene]

Kat:
Is there gonna be a Forbidden Thread for this game? If so, I'll supply the nachoes.

It'll be fun to read the Forbidden Thread during the game, instead of after.

But of course! I was thinking of titling it "How Johnny Got Made," but do what you will. :)

[zuma]

I'm still exhausted from the last game and I'm just going to read along here, but, at some point Gadarene, can you give me another LOL with Y'all are either being royally played, or there's a clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions here

I want "clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions" in your night scene at some point. :p

[Gadarene]

zuma:

I'll see what I can do. :)

[Projammer]

not the second game/trainwreck that is still currently ongoing.

I had read the first game and thought Cool! I'd love to play one of these. Then saw where the second went and was thinking there's no way I could keep up. I've finally resorted to scanning for NAF posts and anything by the soon-to-be or recently departed.

But if this one stays a bit more controlled, fun should be had by all!

[Suburban Plankton]

Slumbers up to the table...
Deal me in!
No, you can't play, because you have an unfair advanyage. You already know who's going to end up dead.

[Queuing]

Hey! The other game isn't a trainwreck! Its, to quote the new mod:

"clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions"

and I will thank you to remember that!

[Nava]

I'd just like to say that these threads should get a collective no-prize for dragging so many low-count posters out into the light. You guys, please remember to lather up on sunscreen, ok?

[nesta]

The light... it burns.

[NAF1138]

Hey! The other game isn't a trainwreck! Its, to quote the new mod:

"clusterfuck of unparalleled proportions"

and I will thank you to remember that!


Hey guys, I am right here! Sheesh. ;)

[tirial]

The light... it burns.

As one lurker to another, try Factor 70 sunscreen. Not quite flameproof, but it helps.

[Gadarene]

All righty. Below are the roles for this go-round, as well as general gameplay guidelines. Please listen carefully as the menu options have changed.

Citizens -- Honest, hard-working, and basically good at heart (except for the duplicitous scum, of course), these townspeople must band together to reclaim their idyllic community from the Mafia scourge that has already plagued two neighboring villages. Although they go their separate ways at night, citizens have taken to meeting at the town hall during the day to try to identify the murderers in their midst. Mob justice rules the day, and a majority vote to lynch someone allows the citizens to take matters into their own hands. In addition, if a majority of the citizenry votes not to kill anyone, the town's blood-lust will subside and no one will be lynched that day. The Town wins if all Mafia members have been eliminated and if non-Masons outnumber Masons (see below).

Mafia -- O foul villainy! This is a shadowy collective of evil-doers who meet under the cover of darkness, plotting to take over the town through a systematic campaign of murder and fear (but mostly murder). By day they pass as ordinary citizens. By night they convene to decide who, if anyone, they will kill. Important: In addition to choosing a target, the Mafia must decide where the target will be killed (out of six possible locales provided below). If the Mafia chooses unwisely, its homicidal plans may be thwarted that night. Also Important: Once (and only once) during the game, the Mafia may decide to forego its murderous business and instead recruit a given townsperson into its fold. Once recruited, the townsperson becomes a made man (or woman) and a full-fledged Mafia member. The Mafia wins if, at the end of a day, it outnumbers the townspeople. There are a handful of Mafia.

Masons -- Another shadowy sect, the Masons are as anti-Mafia as they come. Members of the Masons are known to each other, although they may not communicate outside of the game. They harbor secret dreams of world domination, but they're willing to start small: if the number of Masons is greater than the number of non-Mason citizens once all the Mafia have been eliminated, the Masons claim victory over the Town. Otherwise, the Masons share in the Town's victory and save their conspiratorial machinations for another day. There are a handful of Masons. If a Mason is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she remains a Mason as well as a member of the Mafia.

Do-Gooders -- Steely eyed and pure of heart, these stout folk are ordinary townspeople like you and me (okay, like you). Due to their thoroughly virtuous nature, however, they are incorruptible and may not be recruited to the Mafia's side. There are two Do-Gooders.

Doctor -- The Doctor may choose one person each night to protect from harm, including himself. There is one Doctor.

Detective -- The Detective may investigate one person each night. These investigations will always be accurate; the Detective's just that damn good. There is one Detective. If the Detective is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she becomes corrupt and may investigate on behalf of the Mafia.

Night Watchman -- While most citizens are tucked snugly in bed, the Night Watchman patrols the town, alert to suspicious behavior. Unfortunately, there's only one Night Watchman, and he or she can't be everywhere at once. Thus, every evening the Night Watchman chooses one area of town to patrol: the Wharf, the Village Green, the Abandoned Factory, the Railroad Tracks, the Town Hall, or the Tavern. If the Night Watchman patrols the area in which the Mafia have decided to make their kill, no murder will take place that night.

All of these roles will be included in the game. Rules to follow in my next post, and then I'll PM people with their characters. Any questions so far?

[Gadarene]

I'm gonna flip the thread and repost the roles, so that they appear at the top of the page.

[Gadarene]

All righty. Below are the roles for this go-round, as well as general gameplay guidelines. Please listen carefully as the menu options have changed.

Citizens -- Honest, hard-working, and basically good at heart (except for the duplicitous scum, of course), these townspeople must band together to reclaim their idyllic community from the Mafia scourge that has already plagued two neighboring villages. Although they go their separate ways at night, citizens have taken to meeting at the town hall during the day to try to identify the murderers in their midst. Mob justice rules the day, and a majority vote to lynch someone allows the citizens to take matters into their own hands. In addition, if a majority of the citizenry votes not to kill anyone, the town's blood-lust will subside and no one will be lynched that day. The Town wins if all Mafia members have been eliminated and if non-Masons outnumber Masons (see below).

Mafia -- O foul villainy! This is a shadowy collective of evil-doers who meet under the cover of darkness, plotting to take over the town through a systematic campaign of murder and fear (but mostly murder). By day they pass as ordinary citizens. By night they convene to decide who, if anyone, they will kill. Important: In addition to choosing a target, the Mafia must decide where the target will be killed (out of six possible locales provided below). If the Mafia chooses unwisely, its homicidal plans may be thwarted that night. Also Important: Once (and only once) during the game, the Mafia may decide to forego its murderous business and instead recruit a given townsperson into its fold. Once recruited, the townsperson becomes a made man (or woman) and a full-fledged Mafia member. The Mafia wins if, at the end of a day, it outnumbers the townspeople. There are a handful of Mafia.

Masons -- Another shadowy sect, the Masons are as anti-Mafia as they come. Members of the Masons are known to each other, although they may not communicate outside of the game. They harbor secret dreams of world domination, but they're willing to start small: if the number of Masons is greater than the number of non-Mason citizens once all the Mafia have been eliminated, the Masons claim victory over the Town. Otherwise, the Masons share in the Town's victory and save their conspiratorial machinations for another day. There are a handful of Masons. If a Mason is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she remains a Mason as well as a member of the Mafia.

Do-Gooders -- Steely eyed and pure of heart, these stout folk are ordinary townspeople like you and me (okay, like you). Due to their thoroughly virtuous nature, however, they are incorruptible and may not be recruited to the Mafia's side. There are two Do-Gooders.

Doctor -- The Doctor may choose one person each night to protect from harm, including himself. There is one Doctor.

Detective -- The Detective may investigate one person each night. These investigations will always be accurate; the Detective's just that damn good. There is one Detective. If the Detective is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she becomes corrupt and may investigate on behalf of the Mafia.

Night Watchman -- While most citizens are tucked snugly in bed, the Night Watchman patrols the town, alert to suspicious behavior. Unfortunately, there's only one Night Watchman, and he or she can't be everywhere at once. Thus, every evening the Night Watchman chooses one area of town to patrol: the Wharf, the Village Green, the Abandoned Factory, the Railroad Tracks, the Town Hall, or the Tavern. If the Night Watchman patrols the area in which the Mafia have decided to make their kill, no murder will take place that night.

All of these roles will be included in the game. Rules to follow in my next post, and then I'll PM people with their characters. Any questions so far?

[Gadarene]

These are the rules. The rules are these.

1) This game will begin during the day.

2) Days will last 96 hours. At the end of the 96 hours, whichever player has the most votes will be lynched. If a plurality of townspeople have expressly voted to lynched no one by the end of the 96 hours, no one will be lynched. In addition, a day may end early if one of the following conditions are met.

3) If the majority of townspeople vote to kill a player, that player will be given 12 hours to defend his or herself. If the player still has a majority after that period, the day will end and he or she will be lynched.

4) If the majority of townspeople expressly vote to kill no one, there will be a twelve-hour period during which discussion will continue. If, after that period, a majority of townspeople still vote to kill no one, the day will end early and no one will be killed.

5) Votes should be made in blue. (If you vote to kill no one, you should vote no one.) Unvotes should be made in red. Townspeople may vote and unvote as many times as they like over the course of the day, but their final vote is binding. If you do not unvote before you revote, your revote will not be counted and I will look askance at you.

6) Nights will last 48 hours. Nights may end early once all night-time instructions have been submitted.

7) There will be no lurking. Each poster must post at least three times per game day, unless the day ends early. If you need to be away from the game for an extended period of time, post in the thread or let me know privately. If you need to drop out of the game, let me know and a sub will be arranged.

8) There will be no editing of your posts.

9) During the night, no substantive game discussion or strategizing shall occur (except among the Mafia).

10) Players who have been killed are allowed one goodbye post, and then you get to go hang out in the Forbidden Thread and eat nachos.

11) Don't violate the spirit of the game. Don't get too serious. Have fun.

12) If you have any questions or rules queries, ask. I'm happy to help.

Roles are going out soon. When I've sent you your role, PM me back to confirm and accept. And then we'll be ready to roll! :)

[Gadarene]

And in the spirit of putting all the useful information at the top of this page, here's the player list again:



1. fluiddruid
2. NAF1138
3. CaerieD
4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
5. Hal Briston
6. nesta
7. Projammer
8. percypercy
9. SnakesCatLady
10. Lightnin'
11. Lemur866
12. Achren
13. percussion
14. Millit the Frail
15. Rachm Qoch
16. DiggitCamara
17. dnooman
18. Kyrie Eleison
19. Omi No Kami
20. Idle Thoughts

And here's our list of reserves, to be subbed in as needed. I'll be instituting a similar "no lurking" rule as NAF did last time, so we may need you folk.

1. glee
2. Blaster Master
3. tirial
4. Malacandra

If anyone else wants to be put on the reserve list, let me know.

[nesta]

Thanks for setting this up Gadarene. The extra twists you added are going to make this game very interesting.

One rules clarification that came up last game: are you allowed to post strategy or "now that I'm confirmed town kill this person" type information in your goodbye post, or is it strictly a goodbye?

Another I just thought of: Does the 12 hour countdown reset when enough unvotes happen to drop below the majority? I ask because in the rules you posted it doesn't mention the clock actually resetting, but just that they must still have a majority at the end of the 12 hours. Also, what if someone else has a majority at the end of that twelve hours, is the countdown from the original majority or from the time the new player reached a majority?

[NAF1138]

THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!

Whew...nothing like a good scream to help you relax.

[Gadarene]

nesta:
One rules clarification that came up last game: are you allowed to post strategy or "now that I'm confirmed town kill this person" type information in your goodbye post, or is it strictly a goodbye?

Good question. (All of your questions are good, actually.) While there should be no strategy or explicit finger-pointing in your goodbye post, the goodbye poster should certainly feel free to give general observations about the state of the game from their perspective, if that makes sense. No naming names, basically.

Another I just thought of: Does the 12 hour countdown reset when enough unvotes happen to drop below the majority? I ask because in the rules you posted it doesn't mention the clock actually resetting, but just that they must still have a majority at the end of the 12 hours.

Yes, the 12 hour countdown resets when the vote to lynch (or to lynch no one) drops below the majority.

Also, what if someone else has a majority at the end of that twelve hours, is the countdown from the original majority or from the time the new player reached a majority?

From the time the new player reaches a majority.

[Lemur866]

So when do we start with the lynching and the pitchforks and the glavin and the HEY LADY!?

[NAF1138]

So when do we start with the lynching and the pitchforks and the glavin and the HEY LADY!?
Jerry Lewis impressions are a scum tell! FOS Lemur866.

[dnooman]

I done replied to my PM. Has anyone started a bar tab yet? I left my wallet at home.

[Hal Briston]

<refresh>

Nope, no PM yet.

<refresh>

Nope, no PM yet.

<refresh>

Nope, no PM yet.

<refresh>

Nope, no PM yet.

<refresh>

Nope, no PM yet.

<refresh>

Gaaaaa! Make me stop!!

[Lemur866]

Wait, I've got a question. Townspeople obviously hash out their lynchings in public, here. Where do the mafia hash out their whacking? By email? All mafia will know who the other mafia are? And when someone gets lynched, we know for sure their complete role, or only that they were mafia or townsperson? That is, if a Mason gets lynched, do we know he's a mason?

[Gadarene]

Lemur866:
Wait, I've got a question. Townspeople obviously hash out their lynchings in public, here. Where do the mafia hash out their whacking? By email? All mafia will know who the other mafia are?

Mafia confer at night in private in an undisclosed location, just like Dick Cheney. They can't talk privately during the day. Also, all Mafia know who all the other Mafia are.

And when someone gets lynched, we know for sure their complete role, or only that they were mafia or townsperson? That is, if a Mason gets lynched, do we know he's a mason?

When someone gets killed---whether by lynching or by the Mafia---their full role will be revealed for all to see.

[Gadarene]

Okay, I've sent out all the PMs! Now I'm just waiting for people to confirm. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves until the day officially begins. No strategizing, though. :)

[fluiddruid]

When someone gets killed---whether by lynching or by the Mafia---their full role will be revealed for all to see.It's a classic villian mistake - we know them when all the scum fail to fill out their organ donor cards. :)

[DiggitCamara]

THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME!


"The Suspense"?? I didn't read about that role in the rules! :D

[Hal Briston]

It's a classic villian mistake - we know them when all the scum fail to fill out their organ donor cards. :)I thought it was by their Sanitation Workers Union card?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Question...

Hypothetically, if the scurvy scum try to play their Red Rover card, I assume that the outcome is not divulged to the game at large, correct?

Townsfolk and observers of the thread will notice that no one was killed that night, but they won't know anything else for certain. Right?

[Gadarene]

Hypothetically, if the scurvy scum try to play their Red Rover card, I assume that the outcome is not divulged to the game at large, correct?

Townsfolk and observers of the thread will notice that no one was killed that night, but they won't know anything else for certain. Right?

Absolutely correct.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Gah...also meant to ask if a Do-gooder happens to be the target of an offer that they actually can refuse, does said Do-gooder feel that proverbial hand on his/her thigh?

[MadTheSwine]

Those bastards in the other game killed me...I will get on the sub list tho It probably won't matter.

[SnakesCatLady]

I've sent my reply and I have not the faintest idea what I am doing. Where's the bartender? Please don't tell me this is a dry town, I need a margarita.

[Gadarene]

Gah...also meant to ask if a Do-gooder happens to be the target of an offer that they actually can refuse, does said Do-gooder feel that proverbial hand on his/her thigh?

Good question. Nope. Their virtue makes them oblivious to the siren call of evil. :)

[Gadarene]

You're added to the reserve list, MadTheSwine! Tough luck in the other game.

[Millit the Frail]

I've sent my reply and I have not the faintest idea what I am doing. Where's the bartender? Please don't tell me this is a dry town, I need a margarita.

That makes two of us, SnakesCatLady. Bartender, I'll have what she's having!

[Lemur866]

Already the factions take shape.

[Hal Briston]

Oh, Newbie Lush is a faction? Barkeep, pour me a mug of initiation, would'ya?

[NAF1138]

It's moments before dawn for og's sake people! This is no time to drink margaritas. That is time for whiskey!

[Millit the Frail]

It's moments before dawn for og's sake people! This is no time to drink margaritas. That is time for whiskey!


Ummm....sure. I'll have some whiskey! Just as soon as I finish this here margarita.

What?!

*hiccup*

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Oh, Newbie Lush is a faction? Barkeep, pour me a mug of initiation, would'ya?

I do not want to know what gulp of squid ink and goat's milk tastes like...

[glee]

Gadarene,

can reserves ask about the rules?

Ta.

[Gadarene]

glee: Mais oui!

(Hee. That rhymed.)

[ArizonaTeach]

(huff huff huff)

Thank God. I've just run over here from the next town over, and we're being overrun by mafia and serial killers! This town looks like a nice, peaceful, calm place where I can be safe from...oh hell.

Is that place with the werewolves still around?

OK, I promise I won't do that again. Seriously, go town!

[Gadarene]

Just testing out my new signature. Hope people find it helpful!

[NAF1138]

Just testing out my new signature. Hope people find it helpful!
Now THAT is a good idea. Wish I had thought of it. :smack:

[fluiddruid]

That is a good idea! Maybe you can add a second line to it, too, and list "Day 1" "Day 2" and so on with links to the kills / updated player lists, if it's not too much trouble.

[Gadarene]

That is a good idea! Maybe you can add a second line to it, too, and list "Day 1" "Day 2" and so on with links to the kills / updated player lists, if it's not too much trouble.

That's certainly doable; we'll see how diligent I am. :)

Only waiting for seven confirmations, by my count, and then the game can begin.

(Is there a way to automatically display your signature?)

[Idle Thoughts]

Wow, in by the skin of my teeth.

Good way to spend days, though, that need time fillers/wasting. Thank you for starting up another game.

[Hal Briston]

(Is there a way to automatically display your signature?)No, TPTB have it set to "off" as the default. Oddly enough, it's set to "on" in the private messages section, though.

Speaking of PMs -- you seven slackers, make with the replies already! :)

[glee]

glee: Mais oui!

(Hee. That rhymed.)

Ah bon. Vous parlez francais. :) Je pense que ... only kidding!

1. Who wins if all the Mafia are eliminated and the non-Masons / Masons are equal in number?

2. I understand that the Mafia recruitment is secret (post 68). If the Mafia exercise their option and happen to recruit a Mason, do the other Masons realise what has happened (if one of their number is suddenly both Mason and Mafia)?

3. I assume Mafia recuitment does not take place where the Town Watchman can possibly block it, right? (as he can a kill)

4. Can the Doctor block a Mafia recruitment? (as he can a kill)

5. Assuming neither the Town Watchman nor the Doctor can block recruitment: if the Mafia choose a Do-Gooder and thus fail, they know their victim is a Do-Gooder, right?

6. Can a joint Mason / Mafia win if either:

- the Mafia win?
- the Masons win?
- the Town win?

7. Does the Town Watchman know when he's blocked a Mafia kill?
Do the Mafia know when this happens?

[glee]

8. Can the Mafia kill the Town Watchman? (Because he's automatically guarding the area he's in!)

[CaerieD]

It's moments before dawn for og's sake people! This is no time to drink margaritas. That is time for whiskey!

I thought moments before dawn was when you had your Bloody Mary? Oh well, just to be safe I'll have the Bloody Mary and the whiskey.

[NAF1138]

I thought moments before dawn was when you had your Bloody Mary? Oh well, just to be safe I'll have the Bloody Mary and the whiskey.


Good call, better safe than sorry. What the hell throw in a margarita too. Rocks with salt please!

[Gadarene]

glee: Excellent questions!

1. Who wins if all the Mafia are eliminated and the non-Masons / Masons are equal in number?

The Town as a whole does. The Masons only claim sole victory if there are more of them than there are non-Masons once the Mafia is gone.

2. I understand that the Mafia recruitment is secret (post 68). If the Mafia exercise their option and happen to recruit a Mason, do the other Masons realise what has happened (if one of their number is suddenly both Mason and Mafia)?

Nope. And because the Masons can't talk outside the game thread, the only way they'll find out is if the Town finds out. Of course, the Mason Mafioso is free to tell the Mafia who his or her fellow Masons are, to the extent that that will help them.

3. I assume Mafia recuitment does not take place where the Town Watchman can possibly block it, right? (as he can a kill)

Correct. The Mafia has its ways.

4. Can the Doctor block a Mafia recruitment? (as he can a kill)

Nope!

5. Assuming neither the Town Watchman nor the Doctor can block recruitment: if the Mafia choose a Do-Gooder and thus fail, they know their victim is a Do-Gooder, right?

Correct. Of course, even if the Mafia's attempted recruitment fails, they don't get another one.

6. Can a joint Mason / Mafia win if either:

- the Mafia win?
- the Masons win?
- the Town win?

Hmm. Yes, yes, and no. That is, the Mason Mafioso's Mafia status overrides his loyalty to the Town, but not his loyalty to the Masons.

7. Does the Town Watchman know when he's blocked a Mafia kill?
Do the Mafia know when this happens?

No and no.

[Gadarene]

8. Can the Mafia kill the Town Watchman? (Because he's automatically guarding the area he's in!)

Heh. Yes. Assuming they don't choose to do the deed in the same area he's patrolling, they can just pick him off en route. :)

[glee]

glee: Excellent questions!

Thank you!



The Town as a whole does. The Masons only claim sole victory if there are more of them than there are non-Masons once the Mafia is gone.


You'll need to change a few words in your Citizen description to make this clear. :)


Heh. Yes. Assuming they don't choose to do the deed in the same area he's patrolling, they can just pick him off en route.

This is a wonderful concept! :cool:

"Fred the Night Watchman headed for the Railroad Tracks. Sadly he was not alert on the way and as he passed the Town Hall a shadowy figure sprang from the darkness and snuffed out the loyal Citizen."

[Lemur866]

When are those bastards going to answer their private messages? I'd put them on my list if I knew who they were.

Note people, this isn't an email, but an SDMB private message. Go to your UserCP up at the top of the page and look for private messages.

[Lemur866]

So just to be clear, if the Mafia vote to kill a player at a location, and the person they vote to kill is the night watchman, he'll be safe if he patrolled the location they chose to kill him in, being alert and all, but killed if he patrolled another location. Is that right?

[Gadarene]

In alphabetical order, I'm still waiting to hear from:

Achren
Millit the Frail
Omi No Kami
percussion
Projammer

Several of them posted in this thread for the first time yesterday evening here on the East Coast, so maybe there are work/timezone issues.

[Gadarene]

glee:
You'll need to change a few words in your Citizen description to make this clear.

Whoops, right you are. Hopefully people won't be too confused by that.

Lemur866:
So just to be clear, if the Mafia vote to kill a player at a location, and the person they vote to kill is the night watchman, he'll be safe if he patrolled the location they chose to kill him in, being alert and all, but killed if he patrolled another location. Is that right?

That's right.

(As an aside, I confess that I don't know whether other versions of Mafia have had the Night Watchman role or not. I expect they would, but I came up with it independently, so I truly hope it works out all right.)

[Millit the Frail]

In alphabetical order, I'm still waiting to hear from:

Achren
Millit the Frail
Omi No Kami
percussion
Projammer

Several of them posted in this thread for the first time yesterday evening here on the East Coast, so maybe there are work/timezone issues.

I already replied! OK, I'll try again. if not, can you consider this my acceptance of entrance into the game?

[Gadarene]

I already replied! OK, I'll try again. if not, can you consider this my acceptance of entrance into the game?

Absolutely! I just got your PM.

Only four more confirmations to go.

[NAF1138]

glee:


Whoops, right you are. Hopefully people won't be too confused by that.

Lemur866:


That's right.

(As an aside, I confess that I don't know whether other versions of Mafia have had the Night Watchman role or not. I expect they would, but I came up with it independently, so I truly hope it works out all right.)

Can we just make it easy and say that masons have to be at -1 in relation to the town at endgame? I can see that slip in the language becoming a HUGE headache later on.

And the night watchman idea is super cool, and not one that I have heard of before. So double points to you, sir.

[Gadarene]

NAF:
Can we just make it easy and say that masons have to be at -1 in relation to the town at endgame? I can see that slip in the language becoming a HUGE headache later on.

I dunno; thanks to glee, it was caught and cleared up. What I'll do is make a revised rules post which fixes the wording, and link to that in my signature instead. I think that should solve it.

And the night watchman idea is super cool, and not one that I have heard of before. So double points to you, sir.

Thanks! :)

Also, Projammer has confirmed. Only three to go.

[Projammer]

Just got back from the post office.

Hey barkeep! Jack and Coke!

[Gadarene]

All righty. Below are the roles for this go-round, as well as general gameplay guidelines. Please listen carefully as the menu options have changed.

Citizens -- Honest, hard-working, and basically good at heart (except for the duplicitous scum, of course), these townspeople must band together to reclaim their idyllic community from the Mafia scourge that has already plagued two neighboring villages. Although they go their separate ways at night, citizens have taken to meeting at the town hall during the day to try to identify the murderers in their midst. Mob justice rules the day, and a majority vote to lynch someone allows the citizens to take matters into their own hands. In addition, if a majority of the citizenry votes not to kill anyone, the town's blood-lust will subside and no one will be lynched that day. The Town wins if all Mafia members have been eliminated and if there at least as many non-Masons as there are Masons (see below).

Mafia -- O foul villainy! This is a shadowy collective of evil-doers who meet under the cover of darkness, plotting to take over the town through a systematic campaign of murder and fear (but mostly murder). By day they pass as ordinary citizens. By night they convene to decide who, if anyone, they will kill. Important: In addition to choosing a target, the Mafia must decide where the target will be killed (out of six possible locales provided below). If the Mafia chooses unwisely, its homicidal plans may be thwarted that night. Also Important: Once (and only once) during the game, the Mafia may decide to forego its murderous business and instead recruit a given townsperson into its fold. Once recruited, the townsperson becomes a made man (or woman) and a full-fledged Mafia member. The Mafia wins if, at the end of a day, it outnumbers the townspeople. There are a handful of Mafia.

Masons -- Another shadowy sect, the Masons are as anti-Mafia as they come. Members of the Masons are known to each other, although they may not communicate outside of the game. They harbor secret dreams of world domination, but they're willing to start small: if the number of Masons is greater than the number of non-Mason citizens once all the Mafia have been eliminated, the Masons claim victory over the Town. Otherwise, the Masons share in the Town's victory and save their conspiratorial machinations for another day. There are a handful of Masons. If a Mason is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she remains a Mason as well as a member of the Mafia, and will win if the victory conditions are met for the Mafia or the Masons (but not the Town). A Mafioso Mason's Mafia status overrides his loyalty to the Town, but not his loyalty to the Masons.

Do-Gooders -- Steely eyed and pure of heart, these stout folk are ordinary townspeople like you and me (okay, like you). Due to their thoroughly virtuous nature, however, they are incorruptible and may not be recruited to the Mafia's side. There are two Do-Gooders.

Doctor -- The Doctor may choose one person each night to protect from harm, including himself. There is one Doctor.

Detective -- The Detective may investigate one person each night. These investigations will always be accurate; the Detective's just that damn good. There is one Detective. If the Detective is recruited to the Mafia's side, he or she becomes corrupt and may investigate on behalf of the Mafia.

Night Watchman -- While most citizens are tucked snugly in bed, the Night Watchman patrols the town, alert to suspicious behavior. Unfortunately, there's only one Night Watchman, and he or she can't be everywhere at once. Thus, every evening the Night Watchman chooses one area of town to patrol: the Wharf, the Village Green, the Abandoned Factory, the Railroad Tracks, the Town Hall, or the Tavern. If the Night Watchman patrols the area in which the Mafia have decided to make their kill, no murder will take place that night.

All of these roles will be included in the game.

[Gadarene]

Achren has confirmed. We're just waiting for percussion and Omi No Kami.

[Achren]

When are those bastards going to answer their private messages? I'd put them on my list if I knew who they were.

Note people, this isn't an email, but an SDMB private message. Go to your UserCP up at the top of the page and look for private messages.

Dude, chill. I was lunching and seeing a movie.

[DiggitCamara]

When are those bastards going to answer their private messages? I'd put them on my list if I knew who they were.

Note people, this isn't an email, but an SDMB private message. Go to your UserCP up at the top of the page and look for private messages.

Actually, in my case at least, it wasn't enabled automatically.

I had to edit my "options" and enable the Private Messaging section.

(and, luckily, I received an e-mail as well) ;)

[Hal Briston]

Dude, chill. I was lunching and seeing a movie. <eyes Achren suspiciously>
Hmmm..."seeing a movie"? Sounds like some sort of mob euphemism to me...

[DiggitCamara]

We're just waiting for percussion and Omi No Kami.
Why are we waiting for percussion ? Did you just tell a joke? :confused:

[Gadarene]

Ouch. :D

[Idle Thoughts]

<eyes Achren suspiciously>
Hmmm..."seeing a movie"? Sounds like some sort of mob euphemism to me...

It was probably Scarface. Digitally remastered, of course.

[Gadarene]

All right, I'm off to dinner now. If both percussion and Omi No Kami haven't confirmed by the time I get home this evening (which should be around 9:30 pm EST), I'll strongly consider starting the day anyway (and eventually substituting for them if they continue to be absent).

Either way, the day will probably start sometime tonight! ...Erm, you know what I mean.

[Achren]

It was probably Scarface. Digitally remastered, of course.I don't know if it was the movie itself or the multiple coke-and-rums, but I found it hard to follow the plot. To this day all I remember is "Say hello to my little friend" and I think I only remember *that* because of the multiple pop references.
(For the record, I saw 300.)

[Omi no Kami]

Alright, I just replied! Hopefully that'll do it. ^^

I'm afraid I don't drink... I guess I'll just have to restrict myself to sitting with my back to a wall and starting at shadows.

[NAF1138]

I'm afraid I don't drink... I guess I'll just have to restrict myself to sitting with my back to a wall and starting at shadows.

Not drinking is a scum tell! FOS Omi no Kami!

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Finger of Sobriety...

[Omi no Kami]

Eek! Lemme tell you, it's alchohol that got us in to this mess! Why, I'll bet half the bars we drink in are owned by the mob! Just think about it: ice, icepicks, booze... the three things any self-respecting hitman needs to do his job.

Oh, by the by Gadarene, are you going to give us guesstimates of the number of scum, or should we go digging through our books about angels dancing on needles to figure out the precise numeric definition of "a handful"? ;)

[Achren]

Alright, I just replied! Hopefully that'll do it. ^^

I'm afraid I don't drink... I guess I'll just have to restrict myself to sitting with my back to a wall and starting at shadows.I just put in an order for chips and hot sauce myself (mmm, hot sauce). Feel free to have some, if you like.

[SnakesCatLady]

I'm going in for fried shrimp to soak up the margaritas I plan to have when I get back. Do we need more limes? Salt??

[Lemur866]

Dude, chill. I was lunching and seeing a movie.
"Chill"? Well, aren't you suspiciously familiar with gangland style slang. "Chill" obviously means you intend to have me "put on ice". Well, I'm on to you, see?

[Idle Thoughts]

.....

Oh, by the by Gadarene, are you going to give us guesstimates of the number of scum, or should we go digging through our books about angels dancing on needles to figure out the precise numeric definition of "a handful"? ;)

While I'm not Gadarene and don't speak for him, from what I know the number is always kept a secret/mystery (well, unless one is scum, that is).

[Omi no Kami]

I just put in an order for chips and hot sauce myself (mmm, hot sauce). Feel free to have some, if you like.

Oh, don't mind if I do! Maybe if we eat enough spicy food the vampires won't want to- oh, wait, that was the LAST town I lived in. Ne'er mind.

[Projammer]

Not drinking is a scum tell! FOS Omi no Kami!

And please, for the benefit of us newbie types, please define acronyms and slang the first time they're used in the board..

"Tell" is fairly obvious.. But FOS? Finger of Shame?

[Idle Thoughts]

Suspicion maybe?

[Rysto]

Finger of Suspicion. If I FOS you, I think that you're suspicious.

[Lemur866]

And please, for the benefit of us newbie types, please define acronyms and slang the first time they're used in the board..

"Tell" is fairly obvious.. But FOS? Finger of Shame?
Asking about the Finger of Suspicion? That gets you a Finger of Suspicion.

[threnodyangelfire]

Im in :) If someone will gently introduce me to the rules. I'm online just about 24/7 so committment is no worries.

Gah ignore me. Post 128? i'm def. not in.

But the committment's there!!

[NAF1138]

Its a public announcment that you don't like someone, but are not ready to vote for them (for whatever reason). So people can keep track of who you have been wondering about.

[Projammer]

When are those bastards going to answer their private messages? I'd put them on my list if I knew who they were.

Building a hit list? Now there's a scum tell....

[Omi no Kami]

Building a hit list? Now there's a scum tell....

Speaking of which, is anyone else thinking that we depend too much on statistics? It seems like players depending on averages instead of looking for outright suspicious behavior has gotten Town into a whole heap of trouble during the last game.

[percypercy]

I believe, since we're all here waiting for the beautiful sunrise, that I'd like a mimosa. Heavy on the booze. I make 'em with just a splash of juice, for the color. Should hit the spot. A could of these and I'll sleep through til noon.
-Lil

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Reminds me of the days when I played rec league softball for an Atlanta lesbian bar. We'd play on Sundays, and the first games of the day could start as early as 8am. The problem was that half of the team were employees of the bar. So they were usually up until about 4am restocking and cleaning the bar after a crazy Saturday night spent serving booze to the rest of us, including all of our competition. (It got really interesting if some of my teammates might've had to break up any fights involving any members of the opposing teams we happened to be playing that day, but I digress).

The Bloody Marys and Mimosas ran fast and strong in and around the dug-out on those early game days. And despite most of the team running on 3 hours of sleep and being drunk on hair of the dog, we played some damn good ball.

[Omi no Kami]

So a state trooper is patroling a backcountry road in the middle of winter, when he comes upon an obviously drunk young man who has gotten his car stuck in a snowbank. When the man spots the cop he jumps into the car, hits the ignition, and begins frantically spinning his wheels in an attempt to escape. The state trooper grins, approaches the car, and begins running in place next to the window.

Needless to say, the young man will be going on about the cop who could run 70kph for years.

[Projammer]

Reminds me of the days when I played rec league softball for an Atlanta lesbian bar.

A lesbian bar?

What kind of amendments did you have to make to the rules to allow for not having any balls? :D

[Lemur866]

Building a hit list? Now there's a scum tell....
Listing scum tells? That's a scum tell.

[Gadarene]

Okay, here's the deal. I want to get this started as much as the rest of you do, but since we're only one confirmation shy of a full complement and it's only been a little over a day since percussion last checked in here, I'm going to give this until 9:00 a.m. EST tomorrow morning. Is there anyone on the current sub list (this includes you, threnodyangelfire) who'll be online and available by PM at that time to take over for percussion in the event that he or she doesn't show? That way, we can begin by then at the latest regardless. Sound good?

[fluiddruid]

Speaking of which, is anyone else thinking that we depend too much on statistics? It seems like players depending on averages instead of looking for outright suspicious behavior has gotten Town into a whole heap of trouble during the last game.I did a little reading (and I read the previous thread) and it seems that the odds are with Town based on random chance generally -- though, I don't know what "a handful" means in this context -- but, in the end, the skillful players will win. You have to look for the, ahem, "scum tells" more than just playing the odds, though keeping the odds in mind is important to a point.

Fortunately, some of the heavy math involving the Beat Cops won't come into play in this game!

[Gadarene]

Fortunately, some of the heavy math involving the Beat Cops won't come into play in this game!

Intentionally so. ;)

[SnakesCatLady]

Well, since we won't be starting until in the morning I'm going to take my margarita and a good book to the bathtub for a soak. See ya'll in the morning!

[Idle Thoughts]

I'm on PST and I usually don't get on until about 11 am or so my time, so hopefully I won't have missed too much game. :) But sounds like a plan.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Being on PST is a scum tell! Oh, wait...

[dnooman]

I just found $20 in the parking lot, looks like I'm buying the first pitcher.

[Omi no Kami]

While we're talking about times, I should note that I'm on PST + 1, and tend to be up at really weird hours. ^^

[Omi no Kami]

And before someone tries to interpret my skulking around at night as a scum tell, I should note that I'm Canadian. Everybody loves Canadians... right?

[Idle Thoughts]

And before someone tries to interpret my skulking around at night as a scum tell, I should note that I'm Canadian. Everybody loves Canadians... right?

Scum.

[Omi no Kami]

Scum.

Hmph. Next you'll be making fun of my tuque, I'll bet! Well, screw it... I'll just get good and roaring drunk, and sit here until my paranoia sounds more rational!

[glee]

Okay, here's the deal. I want to get this started as much as the rest of you do, but since we're only one confirmation shy of a full complement and it's only been a little over a day since percussion last checked in here, I'm going to give this until 9:00 a.m. EST tomorrow morning. Is there anyone on the current sub list (this includes you, threnodyangelfire) who'll be online and available by PM at that time to take over for percussion in the event that he or she doesn't show? That way, we can begin by then at the latest regardless. Sound good?

I say!
Does that mean I might get to play? :cool:

[glee]

Speaking of which, is anyone else thinking that we depend too much on statistics? It seems like players depending on averages instead of looking for outright suspicious behavior has gotten Town into a whole heap of trouble during the last game.

Huh. :rolleyes:

Without going into details, let me assure you that I spent over 4 hours reading and analysing about 2000 posts before making one accusation based on 3 different types of suspicious behaviour. :cool:

And that led to a Citizen being lynched. :smack:

[dnooman]

Hmph. Next you'll be making fun of my tuque, I'll bet! Well, screw it... I'll just get good and roaring drunk, and sit here until my paranoia sounds more rational!
That strategy worked quite well for Winston Smith in the first game. Wait, no, he was lynched.

[Omi no Kami]

That strategy worked quite well for Winston Smith in the first game. Wait, no, he was lynched.

True enough. I'd like to think I'm not dumb enough to make a role claim that I can't back up, but I'm sure if you give me enough time I'll find an equally :smack: way in which to get myself killed. :)

(that's a poke at myself, not a jab at Winston! He's nice.)

[Malacandra]

I just found $20 in the parking lot, looks like I'm buying the first pitcher.

Finding a double sawbuck is a scum tell!

[Omi no Kami]

Finding a double sawbuck is a scum tell!

Finding scum is a scum tell!

[Malacandra]

Finding scum tells on reserves is a scum tell!

[Gadarene]

Will those of you on the sub list who are around and willing to take over for percussion PM me immediately? That'd be glee, tirial, Blaster Master, Malacandra, and threnodyangelfire. First person to PM gets it. In the case of a tie, per The Powers That Be, preference will be given to those not still alive in the current game.

Thanks!

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

*watches as the hamsters are openly and shamelessly bribed*

[Blaster Master]

I sent you a PM Gadarene.

[fluiddruid]

All right, all right! Soon enough the carnage will begin!

[Kyrie Eleison]

<Yawns; Pokes head out door; Observes that its not yet dawn>
<Notices half the town is liquored up, and idly discussing stringing someone up>
<Disappears; Locks door securely>

[fluiddruid]

Well, I don't know about you, but I think "liquored up" is just about the right state for dawn.

[Gadarene]

It is dawn. You are standing in the Village Green. Everyone is here.

You are carrying: Nothing

Available Exits: North South East West Down

:)

The day will end in 96 hours, or if a majority of players vote either to lynch a particular person or to lynch no one at all. Good luck!

[glee]

I sent you a PM Gadarene.

I sent mine at 02:31 :o

[Kyrie Eleison]

Well, I don't know about you, but I think "liquored up" is just about the right state for dawn.
I don't really know Dawn, but I'll take your at your word. Bit trampy, is she?

[Gadarene]

Here's the player list again:

1. fluiddruid
2. NAF1138
3. CaerieD
4. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
5. Hal Briston
6. nesta
7. Projammer
8. percypercy
9. SnakesCatLady
10. Lightnin'
11. Lemur866
12. Achren
13. Blaster Master
14. Millit the Frail
15. Rachm Qoch
16. DiggitCamara
17. dnooman
18. Kyrie Eleison
19. Omi No Kami
20. Idle Thoughts

And here's our list of reserves, to be subbed in as needed. I'll be instituting a similar "no lurking" rule as NAF did last time, so we may need you folk.

1. glee
2. tirial
3. Malacandra
4. threnodyangelfire

If anyone else wants to be put on the reserve list, let me know.

[glee]

Good luck Blaster Master! :)

(You got the spot 'cause you're 'dead in the thread' of game 2.)

Gadarene,

I recognise that style of game play - are there going to be 'sleeping dwarves guarding gold' and just how old are you?!

[Gadarene]

Not telling. :)

Okay, 31.

[SnakesCatLady]

So, is it time to start suspecting everyone?

[Malacandra]

Available Exits: North South East West Down


:D :D :D

[Blaster Master]

Good luck Blaster Master! :) Thanks.

So, is it time to start suspecting everyone?
You mean you weren't already?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I don't know about everyone else, but when I am feeling the grip of nameless dread I find that doing a little fishing helps take the edge off. I'll be down by the bridge with my line and pole and my thermos of coffee and Baileys.

[Millit the Frail]

All night I was trying to decide whether I should come right out and vote no one. After all, it would be really easy to lynch a townie on the first day by mistake. :(

But then I realized how scummy voting "no one" would make me look. But then it also makes me look scummy if I am worried about looking scummy. And then the fact that I'm overthinking this makes me look even more scummy. But not thinking about it at all and just lurking around and waiting to jump on whatever bandwagon comes rolling into town makes me look scummy too....and then this whole post is now going to make it look like I'm protesting too much....!!!

:eek: :eek:

...Um, I'll be breathing into a paper bag in the corner. I don't think I can TAKE this kind of PRESSURE!

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Full disclosure and all, anyone playing who happened to be following the "Backseat Mafia" thread about NAF's game, when I was on last night I saw a post from someone saying something to the effect of "might as well discuss both games here", at which point I stopped reading and left the thread.

Not sure if it has since been addressed over there or not but that would put NAF in a somewhat awkward position and cut the rest of us off from the thrilling ending of the Clusterfuck Trainwreck.

[SnakesCatLady]

I don't know about everyone else, but when I am feeling the grip of nameless dread I find that doing a little fishing helps take the edge off. I'll be down by the bridge with my line and pole and my thermos of coffee and Baileys.

Ummmm, coffee and Bailey's!

*looks around town for liquor store*

It's too early for margaritas and besides I drank all the tequila last night. Will someone turn the sun down a bit? Thanks.

[fluiddruid]

All night I was trying to decide whether I should come right out and vote no one. After all, it would be really easy to lynch a townie on the first day by mistake. :(

But then I realized how scummy voting "no one" would make me look. But then it also makes me look scummy if I am worried about looking scummy. And then the fact that I'm overthinking this makes me look even more scummy. I was thinking about no-voting for lynching (since odds are greater we'll lynch a townie than scum) but if we all do that, that really doesn't give us much to work with on day 2, does it? Since suspicion comes from previous voting patterns and such.

[Millit the Frail]

I was thinking about no-voting for lynching (since odds are greater we'll lynch a townie than scum) but if we all do that, that really doesn't give us much to work with on day 2, does it? Since suspicion comes from previous voting patterns and such.

That's exactly why I thought it would look scummy!

So anyway, please forgive my minor freakout in the corner. I'm not much of a morning person, and even less so when I have to deal with rooting out Mafia first thing after sunrise. But I think I can pull it together by early afternoon. :D

[DiggitCamara]

I was thinking about no-voting for lynching (since odds are greater we'll lynch a townie than scum) but if we all do that, that really doesn't give us much to work with on day 2, does it? Since suspicion comes from previous voting patterns and such.

Mainly, we townies have one advantage right now: numbers. The mob's advantage right now is information (they know exactly who is on their side and who isn't).

So, at this stage the probability of lynching a townie is high, however the votes will provide us with information about alliances, etc. On the other hand, since the scum's interests dictate a strategy of diluting information and spreading paranoia, I'll vote for ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
.

My reasons?

1. Fear-inducing post
2. Scum-tell name (C'mon! "Come To the Dark Side We Have Cookies"?!? ;)

[NAF1138]

Full disclosure and all, anyone playing who happened to be following the "Backseat Mafia" thread about NAF's game, when I was on last night I saw a post from someone saying something to the effect of "might as well discuss both games here", at which point I stopped reading and left the thread.

Not sure if it has since been addressed over there or not but that would put NAF in a somewhat awkward position and cut the rest of us off from the thrilling ending of the Clusterfuck Trainwreck.


Yeah, could we get a new forbidden thread going on for this game. I would like to be able to post to my games forbidden thread.

[NAF1138]

oh and...you are awefully jumpy there DigitCamara. Why are you in such a hurry to vote people out?

[MadTheSwine]

And here's our list of reserves, to be subbed in as needed. I'll be instituting a similar "no lurking" rule as NAF did last time, so we may need you folk.

1. glee
2. tirial
3. Malacandra
4. threnodyangelfire

If anyone else wants to be put on the reserve list, let me know.

Hey! I am on the list ain't I?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Mainly, we townies have one advantage right now: numbers. The mob's advantage right now is information (they know exactly who is on their side and who isn't).

So, at this stage the probability of lynching a townie is high, however the votes will provide us with information about alliances, etc. On the other hand, since the scum's interests dictate a strategy of diluting information and spreading paranoia, I'll vote for ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
.

My reasons?

1. Fear-inducing post
2. Scum-tell name (C'mon! "Come To the Dark Side We Have Cookies"?!? ;)

*sigh* (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8349320&postcount=1100) :p

[Queuing]

Yeah, could we get a new forbidden thread going on for this game. I would like to be able to post to my games forbidden thread.
Done

[DiggitCamara]

oh and...you are awefully jumpy there DigitCamara. Why are you in such a hurry to vote people out?
Honestly? No real reason.

Like I said: we townies suffer from a lack of information to this point. So any vote is pure guesswork at this point. Do I really know ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies is scum? Nope. Do I think he's townie? No way to know. (I won't even mention other roles)

His (her?) reaction and other people's reaction will, however, give us information which we will need to win the game.

[MadTheSwine]

Yeah, could we get a new forbidden thread going on for this game. I would like to be able to post to my games forbidden thread.

Started the observation deck for this over in IMHO.

[Blaster Master]

Full disclosure and all, anyone playing who happened to be following the "Backseat Mafia" thread about NAF's game, when I was on last night I saw a post from someone saying something to the effect of "might as well discuss both games here", at which point I stopped reading and left the thread.

Not sure if it has since been addressed over there or not but that would put NAF in a somewhat awkward position and cut the rest of us off from the thrilling ending of the Clusterfuck Trainwreck.

I agree. I would much prefer if each mafia game would have its own forbidden thread. I would still like to follow and comment on the other game as I still have some vested interest in it, being that I have more than my fair share of the blame for it.

[NAF1138]

Honestly? No real reason.

Like I said: we townies suffer from a lack of information to this point. So any vote is pure guesswork at this point. Do I really know ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies is scum? Nope. Do I think he's townie? No way to know. (I won't even mention other roles)

His (her?) reaction and other people's reaction will, however, give us information which we will need to win the game.


Interesting. This is standard play of course, but the fact that you feel the need to explaine it in such detail...probably means nothing. Still, like you said, we don't have much to go on and you are now someone that I am going to be watching.


Fun game right? :D

[DiggitCamara]

Interesting. This is standard play of course, but the fact that you feel the need to explaine it in such detail...probably means nothing. Still, like you said, we don't have much to go on and you are now someone that I am going to be watching.


Fun game right? :D
In a way your "clusterfuck game" inspired me.

In my mind Autolycus, fun though his posts were, was one of the worst assets to the town. He simply acted as white noise throughout his life and helped the mafia indirectly by diluting the information available to town.

You could say that I'm trying to be an anti-Autolycus. (While still having fun ;))

[Blaster Master]

Having learned from the early mistakes in the previous game, and in the interest of getting the ball rolling: vote SnakesCatLady because random.org said so.

[NAF1138]

Gadarene:Question. Is it 10 to lynch or 11? Because 10 is technically not a majority vote

[Kyrie Eleison]

Vote: NAF1138 for asking DiggitCamara to give his reasons for something that NAF admits to already knowing is standard operating procedure at game start, and then casting suspicion on him for responding to his query. And 'cause I got nothing better to go on at the moment.


Fun game right?

Oh yeah.

[Hal Briston]

I suppose it comes down to this: Any serious post anyone makes (and even some goof posts) are going to be read both ways. Pretty much anything can be interpreted to mean you're on one side or another. Heck, look at Lemur866's question in post #61 (I think) -- All mafia will know who the other mafia are?Taken on the surface, that is a pretty clear indication that Lemur866 is not Mafia. If he were, he'd already have known who the other scum were.

However, could this a tricky reverse-psychology move? Of course, since that post was made while role were still being assigned, there's every change that Lemur866 had no idea if he was scum or not.

And lest anyone find that I'm fitting into DiggitCamara theory of "the scum's interests dictate a strategy of diluting information and spreading paranoia", let me just state for the record: I'm just a simple, babbling townie.

[Gadarene]

Gadarene:Question. Is it 10 to lynch or 11? Because 10 is technically not a majority vote.

Eleven votes to lynch right now. Which makes this first day interestingly different than the first day in the last game, where only ten votes were needed from thirty-odd players. :)

[Lemur866]

Is it a good idea lynch someone the first day, just to establish a data trail? Kind of like Minesweeper, you have to pick your first couple of squares randomly and hope for the best. It seems at first that not lynching is a good strategy because we have no good reason to lynch anyone. But arguments for or against that first lynch are a paper trail, and civilians absolutely need to have a paper trail to make up for our lack of information.

Looking at the werewolf game, where they randomly picked a werewolf on the first lynching, that actually gave them less information than if they picked a townsman. Not that it wasn't a good break for the townsmen, but it just made their second lynching a random pick also.

but I'm open to arguments that we should vote "no one" on the first day. Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Lightnin']

Well, I guess I'm just going to have to vote for DiggitCamara.

Why? He was pretty free with the accusation- with no evidence at all. Since the only one who would have any evidence at this point would be one of the fargin' iceholes bad guys themselves, his vote has to be an attempt to redirect suspicion.

Of course, he might just be shootin' in the dark. But tell me, my friends- do we, as good wholesome townfolk, want an itchy trigger finger like DiggitCamara around? I mean, heck- look at his username, fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't even make any sense, and therefore MUST be a pseudonym.

[fluiddruid]

I'm hesitant to vote for DiggitCamera, since someone had to break the voting ice, but he's a good a sacrificial lamb as any for Day One...

Still, NAF1138 did try to point suspicion on him for what he admits was a relatively meaningless move. Scum going for an easy town kill?

NAF, Dig, what do you have to say for yourselves in defense?

[DiggitCamara]

Of course, he might just be shootin' in the dark. But tell me, my friends- do we, as good wholesome townfolk, want an itchy trigger finger like DiggitCamara around? I mean, heck- look at his username, fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't even make any sense, and therefore MUST be a pseudonym.
(emphasis mine)

Do I really know ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies is scum? Nope. Do I think he's townie? No way to know. (I won't even mention other roles)

... Yer right. I AM shooting in the dark (actually, all us townies are shooting in the dark at this point)
And, fluiddruid the only reason for my vote is exactly the one you've already mentioned: breaking the ice.

[Hal Briston]

Vote NAF1138 for exactly the same reasons Kyrie Eleison gave above. If he already knew the answer to his question, then the only reason to ask it would be to throw undue suspicion elsewhere.

[NAF1138]

I'm hesitant to vote for DiggitCamera, since someone had to break the voting ice, but he's a good a sacrificial lamb as any for Day One...

Still, NAF1138 did try to point suspicion on him for what he admits was a relatively meaningless move. Scum going for an easy town kill?

NAF, Dig, what do you have to say for yourselves in defense?

Dig was the only person at that point who had made a real play. I just wanted to see what he would say if called on it. I don't know if I like his answer or not yet, it was a bit on the nose and was edging towards defensivness. I was hoping to hear him say something like, "What, you are going to accuse me of acting suspicious for casting what is obviously a random vote". That is what I would expect a towny to say in that situation, not the bit about strategy that he put out there.

That being said, it's way to early to think that really mean anything, I just want to watch him for a bit now. He is on my "list" so to speak, but that wasn't even a FOS.

On the other hand Lightnin''s vote feels scummy to me.

FOS Lightnin'


(and we should, I think, always lynch someone until it is much further into the game. No lynches don't do us any good for a couple of days at least)

[nesta]

I think I'll be ignored like I was when I posted the same thing on day 1 last game, but we need to take the first day slowly. Day 1 is all about information gathering, and hoping to trip up the scum. Let's not lynch someone too quickly just to get the day behind us. Voting for almost random people early is a good way to get things rolling, but anyone trying to get a real bandwagon going to end the day early is going to look very suspicious to me.

That said, we need to be looking for a real target on day 1. Look how well it went in WW1 when they got the Alpha Wolf right at the beginning. Sure they got less information out of it than if he'd had a chance to establish a voting pattern, but starting the game with the most powerful scum role already gone gave the town a big advantage. So let's flush out some scum and start this game off right.

[fluiddruid]

I think I'll be ignored like I was when I posted the same thing on day 1 last game, but we need to take the first day slowly. Day 1 is all about information gathering, and hoping to trip up the scum. Let's not lynch someone too quickly just to get the day behind us. Voting for almost random people early is a good way to get things rolling, but anyone trying to get a real bandwagon going to end the day early is going to look very suspicious to me.You're right, we need information in order to make Day 2 useful. A quick Day 1 only benefits the scum.

Since I waffled between NAF1138 and DiggitCamara, and I find DiggitCamara less suspicious (since all he did was randomly vote, presumably at least) I'm going to go ahead and Vote: NAF1138 for now, but I'll unvote if things start moving along too fast here.

[percypercy]

Vote DiggitCamera

That 'We townies' routine twinged something for me. And now all that thinking's made me hungry. Who's for pizza? Maybe a barbeque?
-Lil

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I'm using random.org to throw out my FOS at Kyrie Eleison.

And I even have an upstanding, Christian cite (http://www.christian-lyrics.net/artist/mark-schultz/track/kyrie-eleison) to rationalize my decision:

Kyrie Eleison through the darkness of the night
Kyrie Eleison where I go you will follow

Following me in the dark eh? FOS!!!

[Lemur866]

So the consensus is that voting "no one" on the first day is a bad idea. But should we be posting votes yet, or just shoot the breeze for a while first? I guess shooting the breeze won't give any information unless someone accidentally posts something like "I'm in the mafia". So random voting might be good.

[nesta]

... I'm in the mafia ...
FOS! ;)

I agree, we need votes and FOSes to put pressure on people. Random chit-chat just adds noise and makes the thread harder to review.

Vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies for using random.org for an FOS but not a vote. A random FOS seems even more pointless than a random vote.

[Projammer]

Ummmm, coffee and Bailey's!

Bushmills and coffee.

And proof positive that I'm not scum. Eye-talians don't drink irish whiskey. :)

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

FOS! ;)

I agree, we need votes and FOSes to put pressure on people. Random chit-chat just adds noise and makes the thread harder to review.

Vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies for using random.org for an FOS but not a vote. A random FOS seems even more pointless than a random vote.

Contradict yourself much?

A vote speeds the day, is fodder for a bandwagon, requires color-coding (hey...I'm lazy), and requires a formal post to "undo" (with more color-coding).

A random FOS on the first day provides all of the desired consequences (ice-breaking, conversation-inspiring) with less of the undesireable ones (chance of innocent neck-stretching).

[NAF1138]

A vote speeds the day, is fodder for a bandwagon, requires color-coding (hey...I'm lazy), and requires a formal post to "undo" (with more color-coding).

A random FOS on the first day provides all of the desired consequences (ice-breaking, conversation-inspiring) with less of the undesireable ones (chance of innocent neck-stretching).

I agree with this. Too much voting too fast can have BAD results (look at game 2's first day), but the FOS will do about the same as a vote for now. We can start voting once some real conversations happen, but nothing has really been said yet.

[Projammer]

I'm going to have to vote Lemur866 for several reasons.

First off, the earlier mentioned post about making up a hit list.

Second, the Lemur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemur) is described as a nocturnal species and the Mafia is active at night. Add to that the tail is way to similar to prison striped to be a coincidense.

[SnakesCatLady]

Well, a revenge vote would have me voting for Blaster Master because he voted for me, but I don't have any evidence yet that he is a townie or that he is Mafia. I will, however, be keeping a close eye on him.

I guess I'll just keep sippin' the Bailey's and reading along to see what comes up...

[nesta]

Contradict yourself much?
No, I don't think I do. Where do you think I did?

A vote speeds the day, is fodder for a bandwagon, requires color-coding (hey...I'm lazy), and requires a formal post to "undo" (with more color-coding).

A random FOS on the first day provides all of the desired consequences (ice-breaking, conversation-inspiring) with less of the undesireable ones (chance of innocent neck-stretching).

I think voting is harder for someone to just ignore than an FOS, and tends to bring out over-defensiveness a lot better. It's also easier to review voting records later in the game.

I voted for you for a silly reason, yes, but it got you to respond, and at least it was a reason. It's better to pick a small reason to vote or FOS someone this early in the game rather than to doing so purely randomly. At least give them something to defend against.

[Kyrie Eleison]

I've been randomly FOSed? Lord, have mercy, and share them damn cookies.

I buy NAF's explanation, even if I don't agree with his reasoning for being suspicious of Diggit. Unvote NAF1138.

I hesitated to bring this up earlier, because I'm not sure calling attention to it does the town any good, but we have our first roleclaim on the table, and it seems to be passing undiscussed:

I'm just a simple, babbling townie.
It seems to me that there are three possibilities:

Hal Briston is a simple townie, and has just made it a little easier for the mob to identifiy pro-town power roles
Hal Briston is pro-town, but not a simple townie, in which case his lying may make things difficult for the town later
Hal Briston is scum, and is hoping both to deflect suspicion, and to encourage townies to follow his lead and claim roles.

None of these possibilities seem to have a pro-town outcome. FOS Hal Briston.

[Idle Thoughts]

Okay, this may get me killed off early by the Mafia or may even put the FOS on me by the citizens, but I'm going to say what I said a bit early on in here. Mainly that this is my first time playing this game as a participant, however I have hosted this game many, many times. It's interesting insight getting to see what both sides do when you know who is who and from a neutral POV.


Getting that bit of info out of the way and reading over the posts of the players so far, I already have suspicions (which I'll name) and people who I trust (which I won't, just in case I'm wrong and not wanting them to think they have someone they can mislead).

So to start out, I'm very suspicious of anyone who said "let's not vote". This game, if the citizens have any chance at all, MUST rely on trying to get a mafia member each day. The first day sucks, yeah, because it's so random. But what good would not voting do? The citizens actually use past voting and such to determine who is who and letting a day go by wasted, as it would seem, would be kinda foolish. It would still make day two just as random if nobody voted.

It also is a pretty good tactic to use ("let's not vote so we won't accidently kill off one of our own") if one is scum. A line that one would try as to throw others off.

So fluiddruid, Millit the Frail and Lemur866 are all coming up on my radar with minor warning signs to start off.

I'm going to hold off a vote for now though.

[NAF1138]

Okay, this may get me killed off early by the Mafia or may even put the FOS on me by the citizens, but I'm going to say what I said a bit early on in here. Mainly that this is my first time playing this game as a participant, however I have hosted this game many, many times. It's interesting insight getting to see what both sides do when you know who is who and from a neutral POV.


Getting that bit of info out of the way and reading over the posts of the players so far, I already have suspicions (which I'll name) and people who I trust (which I won't, just in case I'm wrong and not wanting them to think they have someone they can mislead).

So to start out, I'm very suspicious of anyone who said "let's not vote". This game, if the citizens have any chance at all, MUST rely on trying to get a mafia member each day. The first day sucks, yeah, because it's so random. But what good would not voting do? The citizens actually use past voting and such to determine who is who and letting a day go by wasted, as it would seem, would be kinda foolish. It would still make day two just as random if nobody voted.

It also is a pretty good tactic to use ("let's not vote so we won't accidently kill off one of our own") if one is scum. A line that one would try as to throw others off.

So fluiddruid, Millit the Frail and Lemur866 are all coming up on my radar with minor warning signs to start off.

I'm going to hold off a vote for now though.


Here is my thought (comming from the perspective of someone who is currently watching both sides of a very very complicated game).

Not voting or voting no kill, is bad. It gets us nowhere and wastes our chance to get an advantage over the mob.

Totally random voting is bad too though, because it will just muddy up the waters later. I am watching the results of this type of thoughless random action right now in the other game. When you vote you have to be able to back it up with something, because you WILL get called on it eventually. And I think that saying, "well it was just a wild guess" isn't a great defense.

That being said, I know that at the end of the day most of the votes will be sorta random guesses. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold off voting for just a bit if we don't have something to go on.

Random voting gets us nowhere too.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

No, I don't think I do. Where do you think I did?

Contradict was perhaps the wrong word, but...

You say "we need votes and FOS's", but then vote me because you don't like my method.
Fair enough, but you're probably not going to encourage anyone who might be hesitant to throw something out there...

[CaerieD]

I'm highly suspicious of fluiddruid right now for being the third person to vote for NAF1138 in post #199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483982&postcount=199). But, then Idle Thoughts misrepresents fluiddruid's position on voting, by lumping fluiddruid, Millit the Frail and Lemur866 all together as advocates of not voting, which isn't what fluiddruid had been suggesting here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483449&postcount=174) at all.

I'm not ready to cast a vote yet, but I'm quite curious.

[Millit the Frail]

Come on, people. Random.org? That's like saying "Hey, I don't want to be responsible for my vote!" What are you trying to do, leave no trail? The only reason anyone doesn't want to leave a trail (even if it's a crappy trail) is that they're Mafia. A townie has nothing to hide.

Anyway, I'm definitely cool with lynching someone today. Things are getting interesting. All I said was that I spent the night mulling over the possibility of lynching no one. It went from a good idea to a bad one pretty easily. It's no way to get a read on anyone.

To back up my words, I'm going to FOS CometotheDarkSidewehaveCookies and Blaster Master.

[Millit the Frail]

Contradict was perhaps the wrong word, but...

You say "we need votes and FOS's", but then vote me because you don't like my method.
Fair enough, but you're probably not going to encourage anyone who might be hesitant to throw something out there...

Since I just FOS'ed you (Grrrr.....you all are making me verb-ize nouns!) for the same reason, I just want to explain: Own it! Own up to your vote, if you've got nothing to be afraid of. If you die, then at least we can see who you did or didn't think was suspicious at any given time. It could come in really handy if you're a Mason or the Detective.

[Idle Thoughts]

I'm highly suspicious of fluiddruid right now for being the third person to vote for NAF1138 in post #199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483982&postcount=199). But, then Idle Thoughts misrepresents fluiddruid's position on voting, by lumping fluiddruid, Millit the Frail and Lemur866 all together as advocates of not voting, which isn't what fluiddruid had been suggesting here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483449&postcount=174) at all.

I'm not ready to cast a vote yet, but I'm quite curious.

Well, yeah, you're right, but she does mention it (that she was thinking about that, and thus putting the idea out there she had considered that), so it just strikes me as odd a bit.

[Blaster Master]

Random voting gets us nowhere too.
I disagree. From my perspective, the only way we started getting information was when votes started piling up and people felt threatened of being lynched. Thus, I think the best approach is to pile up a few votes, get people to sweat, and see if they slip.
Come on, people. Random.org? That's like saying "Hey, I don't want to be responsible for my vote!" What are you trying to do, leave no trail? The only reason anyone doesn't want to leave a trail (even if it's a crappy trail) is that they're Mafia. A townie has nothing to hide.
How exactly is it "not leaving a trail"? Will my vote magically disappear when the day ends? I can either pick someone out of my head (which would be decidely non-random), or I can make a truly random vote. Either way, my vote accomplished its task when SnakesCatLady responded with an FOS on me, which may or may not be helpful later. When I see a target who seems more likely scum than random, I'll change my vote.

Basically, voting needs to happen to get information, but exactly how are we going to avoid random votes especially on the first day. The only votes that are likely not to be pretty much random are mafia and mason votes, which will garner us more information in the future. So you either vote randomly, which looks suspicious, or you jump on a wagon, which looks suspicious, or you don't vote, which looks suspicious. The only non-suspicious thing to do now is to lurk, which will look suspicious later

[Hal Briston]

It seems to me that there are three possibilities:

Hal Briston is a simple townie, and has just made it a little easier for the mob to identifiy pro-town power roles
Hal Briston is pro-town, but not a simple townie, in which case his lying may make things difficult for the town later
Hal Briston is scum, and is hoping both to deflect suspicion, and to encourage townies to follow his lead and claim roles.
And it seems to me that I've got to give the other threads a more thorough read-through.

I figured that coming right out as a townie would be the de facto standard -- after all, isn't everyone at least trying to give off a "townie vibe"? Well, maybe not. You raise some good points there. While I don't agree that a player saying they're a townie can only hurt the town, nor do I think doing so will make things more difficult later, I do see how this follows a logic path that I had overlooked earlier on.

Time to do a little more research.

[NAF1138]

I disagree. From my perspective, the only way we started getting information was when votes started piling up and people felt threatened of being lynched. Thus, I think the best approach is to pile up a few votes, get people to sweat, and see if they slip.


See and I think all that will do is get some role claims comming in before they should. Don't you think the town might be doing better in the other game if you hadn't been forced to claim so early, or if all the masons weren't forced to claim so early.

Forcing early role claims isn't necessarily a good thing, especially if it is because of random voting.

I have some people pinging me right now, but so far nothing strong enough to get me to vote, so I won't vote now. I will talk to those people as they start to post more however, and see what they have to say.

We have time, we should use it.

[Gadarene]

NAF1138:
Don't you think the town might be doing better in the other game if you hadn't been forced to claim so early, or if all the masons weren't forced to claim so early.

Oh, sure, blame me. ;)

[Blaster Master]

See and I think all that will do is get some role claims comming in before they should. Don't you think the town might be doing better in the other game if you hadn't been forced to claim so early, or if all the masons weren't forced to claim so early.

Forcing early role claims isn't necessarily a good thing, especially if it is because of random voting.

I have some people pinging me right now, but so far nothing strong enough to get me to vote, so I won't vote now. I will talk to those people as they start to post more however, and see what they have to say.

We have time, we should use it.

No disagreement from me on the timing of my role claim. It came too early in the previous game. But it could have been worse. If I hadn't felt eminently threatened of a lynching with still plenty of time to go, I may not have been able to adequately prepare a defense (especially if I hadn't had a demonstratable power role). As an example, look at the wagon that occurred on MadtheSwine last night; it came too late for him to mount an adequate defense and allow for time others (who may be working) to decide if they buy his defense and change their votes.

My whole point is, if we wait to start piling votes with less than 24 hours to go, it's pretty much a hit or miss deal, and the only way out of it is a role claim. If we can have someone feel threatened with more time to go, they may be able appropriately mount a defense and point out a more suspicious target without role-claiming, thus giving us what I feel is a better probability of catching scum.

IOW, yes, ending the first day early from forming a baseless bandwagon is bad, but failing to establish clusters and voting patterns gives us a relatively information free openning day and is thus, just as bad. The happy medium seems to me to throw some votes out, see how people react, and adjust the votes accordingly while making sure to let the day go the full 96 hours.

[Projammer]

I'm kind of in the "the first vote is pretty much random" boat. Everyone is doing their best to give off I'm-a-townie vibes, so unless someone does slip up badly, there's no real hard data to go on. Whomever get's the vote this time is pretty much guaranteed to try some sort of role claim. About the only thing they're NOT going to claim is scum.

So get out there and VOTE!

Like politics, you might not vote for the right one, but you will learn something.

[Lemur866]

Remember that during the first round the detective doesn't have any extra information. Only the Masons and Mafiosi have extra information. So if the detective gets lynched/whacked his/her early pronouncements carry no more weight than anyone elses.

Oh, and Millet the Frail? Verbizing nouns? That's a paddling.

[SnakesCatLady]

We do have a couple of players we haven't heard from yet - I haven't seen anything from Achren, Rachm Qoch, dnooman or Omi No Kami since the day began.

We have a couple or three with two votes and a couple with one vote. I still have my FOS planted gently on Master Blaster for voting for me, but don't really have much on him other than that.

Are we allowed to use cats to help us make choices? My cats are pretty good judges of character...

[nesta]

Whomever get's the vote this time is pretty much guaranteed to try some sort of role claim. About the only thing they're NOT going to claim is scum.

It's only in scum's best interest to false claim, so if we end up lynching a vanilla town person today (which at random I think is more likely than a power role, but I haven't counted) they shouldn't claim anything. Anyone who followed WW1 should remember Winston Smith's claim even though he was vanilla town. Didn't work very well for him, and rightly so. If pro-town players false claim it just muddies the waters. "Lynch all liars" seems to be a fairly standard strategy, and if you're just a vanilla townie you're much better off giving a solid defense rather than hurting the town by causing more confusion. Remember, pro-town players win if the town wins, even if they're dead before the end of the game.

[dnooman]

Well, I guess I'm just going to have to vote for DiggitCamara.

Why? He was pretty free with the accusation- with no evidence at all. Since the only one who would have any evidence at this point would be one of the fargin' iceholes bad guys themselves, his vote has to be an attempt to redirect suspicion.

Of course, he might just be shootin' in the dark. But tell me, my friends- do we, as good wholesome townfolk, want an itchy trigger finger like DiggitCamara around? I mean, heck- look at his username, fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't even make any sense, and therefore MUST be a pseudonym.
Bolding mine.

To me this has a more vindictive tone than I would expect from a townie this early on in the game. One person with an itchy trigger finger isn't going to get someone lynched, it takes a group to do that.

FOS Lightnin'

Our number one priority has to be to root out scum. I think our number two priority should be to keep from doing the Mafia's dirty work for them. Inevitably we will probably lynch one of our own, but it would be nice if that person wasn't on the Mafia's hit list too.

I'm thinking that the Mafia will most likely target an experienced player tonight. Any townie that is digging themselves into a hole will be spared, for us to unfortunately lynch later.

In order to gain at least a little information from tonights kill, I think we need to see at least one post from every player with at least some content in it. We need at least something to review from the poor guy that gets killed tonight.

What was the consensus from the previous game in regards to making investigation suggestions for the Detective? I tend to think that that sort of procedure may give too much info to the Mafia. I think we need to keep the Detective hidden for as long as possible, and need to trust them to make logical investigations without us broadcasting who is the most likely investigation target. Perhaps this is also a good rule to apply to the Night Watchman. What say the rest of the town to this?

Also, it would be really nice to live past night one this time.

[nesta]

Question for Gadarene: Since we had a day start, did the Mafia get a chance to talk at all? I would assume not, but just want to be sure. I also assume that even if they couldn't talk yet, that they do already know who each other are, right?

[Gadarene]

Question for Gadarene: Since we had a day start, did the Mafia get a chance to talk at all? I would assume not, but just want to be sure. I also assume that even if they couldn't talk yet, that they do already know who each other are, right?

You're correct on all counts. The Mafia have not had an opportunity to talk, but they do know each other's identities.

[NAF1138]

IOW, yes, ending the first day early from forming a baseless bandwagon is bad, but failing to establish clusters and voting patterns gives us a relatively information free openning day and is thus, just as bad. The happy medium seems to me to throw some votes out, see how people react, and adjust the votes accordingly while making sure to let the day go the full 96 hours.

This I can agree with.

[nesta]

What was the consensus from the previous game in regards to making investigation suggestions for the Detective? I tend to think that that sort of procedure may give too much info to the Mafia. I think we need to keep the Detective hidden for as long as possible, and need to trust them to make logical investigations without us broadcasting who is the most likely investigation target. Perhaps this is also a good rule to apply to the Night Watchman. What say the rest of the town to this?
I agree. I think suggesting targets for the Detective and Night Watchman is counter-productive. Especially the Night Watchman since his whole shtick is the Mafia not knowing where he's going to be. The Detective can look at who's drawing suspicion and check them out if they want, or he can go his own way. My death in the other game is a good example that sometimes an individual can catch something that the group doesn't. Better to keep the Mafia guessing about what the Detective might already know.

Also, it would be really nice to live past night one this time.
At least we got a day start this time so that we could all wake up at least once. I felt bad for the people killed night 1 last game that didn't even get a chance to play.

[Lightnin']

Bolding mine.

To me this has a more vindictive tone than I would expect from a townie this early on in the game. One person with an itchy trigger finger isn't going to get someone lynched, it takes a group to do that.


While, yes, it does take more than one person with an itchy trigger finger to lynch someone, it only takes one FOS to get the suspicion started on that person... or, in DiggitCamara's case, one vote for lynch. The fact that he started the day off with a call for lynchin' makes me a bit nervous, hence my vote.

However, I think I am going to unvote DiggitCamara, and instead point the ol' FOS onto him. His vote is the only thing he's done that makes me a bit nervous, and I think we need more info before any sort of action should be undertaken (or not undertaken, whatever the case may be).

[percypercy]

I still like my vote for DiggitCamera, but I don't have it in for him or anything. My cat seems thrilled with the idea, but I think he's just sucking up so I'll give him a treat.

[dnooman]

While I find the "reasons" that DiggitCamara gave for his vote to be ridiculous, I don't think that a Mafioso would be brash enough to cast out the very first vote in the game in such a manner. I'm more inclined to believe that he was just stirring the pot for reactions.

[NAF1138]

You're right, we need information in order to make Day 2 useful. A quick Day 1 only benefits the scum.

Since I waffled between NAF1138 and DiggitCamara, and I find DiggitCamara less suspicious (since all he did was randomly vote, presumably at least) I'm going to go ahead and Vote: NAF1138 for now, but I'll unvote if things start moving along too fast here.
(color removed to avoid confusion)

I have been reading and rereading the opening posts of this thread, and this one just seems off.

Fist off, I didn't even FOS Digg, I just asked why he (?) was in such a hurry to get to voting... but I got a couple of votes over the situation. No big deal, it's bound to happen.

Then fluid comes in saying that Digg is sorta suspicious, but asks me and Digg to each post something. I say that I wasn't wild about the way Digg reacted that but that it isn't enough for me to even FOS at this point.

Then in this post turns fluid around and votes for me. A 3rd vote. Also, this post misrepresents the only thing that I found suspicious about Digg at all, which is Digg's responce to my questioning.

A third vote because I was mildly suspicious of another player? After saying that the other player seemed more suspicious?

No sir, I don't like it. Not one bit.

vote: fluiddruid

[NAF1138]

Then in this post turns fluid around and votes for me.
This should read:

Then in this post fluid turns around and votes for me.

[Projammer]

Anyone who followed WW1 should remember Winston Smith's claim even though he was vanilla town. Didn't work very well for him, and rightly so.

I had forgotten that debacle.


Remember, pro-town players win if the town wins, even if they're dead before the end of the game.

Also briefly overlooked. Thanks for pointing that out again.

[Lemur866]

It's only in scum's best interest to false claim, so if we end up lynching a vanilla town person today (which at random I think is more likely than a power role, but I haven't counted) they shouldn't claim anything.
I agree with this. No townsman has a (good) motive to lie, because they win if their faction wins, even if they're dead. Any townsman who lies to save his own skin is hurting the team and should be killed on general principles. Either they're scum or they're an idiot. No offense, Winston.

OK, and since we're starting to vote, I vote dnooman.

Why? Because he was a werewolf in the previous game, and I just can't trust him ever again.

[DiggitCamara]

I agree. I think suggesting targets for the Detective and Night Watchman is counter-productive. Especially the Night Watchman since his whole shtick is the Mafia not knowing where he's going to be. The Detective can look at who's drawing suspicion and check them out if they want, or he can go his own way. My death in the other game is a good example that sometimes an individual can catch something that the group doesn't. Better to keep the Mafia guessing about what the Detective might already know.

Outing the Detective, right now, would be a horrible idea, of course.

The Detective has the potential (as written) to be the most powerful role to win for the town (even if (s)he dies). (S)he should protect him/herself from random mob death by leaving a trail of crumbs (after day one, and/or starting with the first scum detection). A day time lynching (unless too early) would be irrelevant. After all, a lynching would leave time enough to announce the role and leave a clear trail to the remaining town.

Night Watchman? A role rife for manipulation. I could easily see scenarios where the NightWatchman never interferes in a mob kill.

[NAF1138]

OK, and since we're starting to vote, I vote dnooman.

Why? Because he was a werewolf in the previous game, and I just can't trust him ever again. (color removed to avoid confusion)

::Sigh::

We aren't going to avoid random votes at all are we?

FOS Lemur866, due to a crappy reason for casting a vote.

[dnooman]

OK, and since we're starting to vote, I vote dnooman.

Why? Because he was a werewolf in the previous game, and I just can't trust him ever again.
Did you not read the other game that's going on now? I was a plain old townie. It was a lot of fun being a bad guy, but I'm not lucky enough to get that role every game. You might as well vote for someone based on their name.

[fluiddruid]

I'm highly suspicious of fluiddruid right now for being the third person to vote for NAF1138 in post #199 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8483982&postcount=199).To be fair, he had the only even vaguely substantive thing to say at the time that came across as suspicious at the time. But, in any case, nobody's really pinged my radar too badly yet for me to transfer my vote (even given NAF's counter-vote for me, which I can't say I blame him for entirely, though I have some points for him below).

Fist off, I didn't even FOS Digg, I just asked why he (?) was in such a hurry to get to voting... but I got a couple of votes over the situation. No big deal, it's bound to happen.I guess I'm new to the game, I didn't realize FOS was such a big deal (I thought it was often jokingly done) but in any case I didn't (and don't now) think that FOS is the only way to generate suspicion towards someone. IMHO, scum is just as likely, if not moreso, to avoid a formal declaration of suspicion. I don't have a lot of reason to think that you're scum other than the aggressive way you're gone after Digg -- and, when that failed to stick, now myself. You are the third person to do so, since we're pointing that out.

Then in this post turns fluid around and votes for me. A 3rd vote. Also, this post misrepresents the only thing that I found suspicious about Digg at all, which is Digg's responce to my questioning.In what way does it misrepresent you? You didn't quote me, and I'd like to hear why you think so.

[dnooman]

Also, I think that we townies should keep a united front in regards to roles. We should only refer to ourselves as town, never anything more specific unless absolutely necessary. We don't need to narrow down the possible pool of power roles for the Mafia.

I should have thought to remove the color in my previous post too. :smack:

[NAF1138]

In what way does it misrepresent you? You didn't quote me, and I'd like to hear why you think so.

It was this bit

and I find DiggitCamara less suspicious (since all he did was randomly vote, presumably at least)

that I thought misrepresented me. It wasn't his random vote that I objected too, only the way he responded to my questioning. And that only made me mildly suspicious. I even say in my post that it probably means nothing.

This getting me a 3rd vote from you, after what you had posted previously, makes me think you were trying to get the bandwagon rolling.

[NAF1138]

I don't have a lot of reason to think that you're scum other than the aggressive way you're gone after Digg -- and, when that failed to stick, now myself. You are the third person to do so, since we're pointing that out.


I didn't think I was all that agressive with Digg is my point. Just a normal question and answer, with me basically backing off at the end (before you voted) and saying that it was probably meaningless.

I did say I was going to be watching, but hey it was all I had at that point, and I thought I was being very mild.

[Lemur866]

::Sigh::

We aren't going to avoid random votes at all are we?

FOS Lemur866, due to a crappy reason for casting a vote.

But explain to me how we can avoid random votes? I'll be happy to withdraw my random vote if someone can explain a non-random reason to vote for or against someone. I thought the first round was inevitably random?

Although I suppose these early squabbling votes aren't really random, since we're all pointing the FOS at other active participants. Are early aggressive players more likely to be scum or town, barring wine-in-front-of-me metathink? Which means the really random dice-roll style votes are better since that can hit lurking scum.

I honestly have only had time to read through the first werewolf game, and that took hours...so I haven't seen anything from the second mafia game.

[NAF1138]

But explain to me how we can avoid random votes? I'll be happy to withdraw my random vote if someone can explain a non-random reason to vote for or against someone. I thought the first round was inevitably random?

On the one hand I am probably being to agressive, I know that everything is going to have a bit of randomness to it.

On the other...people are saying stuff at this point. There may not be much to go on yet, but there is a little bit and voting totally at random if you don't have to doesn't help the town at all.

[fluiddruid]

I was thinking about this on the drive home. Here's my thoughts:

- NAF and I agree that we need to get people talking/voting to get some data on various issues;
- NAF's early point at Digg wasn't particularly aggressive in hindsight (and I'm sorry I mischaracterized your argument there, NAF)

It seems most likely at this point that NAF is one of the following
- A zealous, prolific townie, in which case he's an asset to the team, or
- A zealous mafia looking to get some early wins - not the most effectual strategy as he'll have to either drastically reduce his postings (causing suspicion) or create a lengthy voting history that can likely be used against him and making for an easy townie lynching later.

Either of these seems pro-townie to me as far as I can figure. Before voting or casting more suspicion -- as we don't have too much to go on yet -- I'm going to unvote NAF1138. I'd really like to see some some of the lurkers have to say, since I really don't think it's in our interest to have anyone escape analysis of their arguments on Day Two.

[Lemur866]

Did you not read the other game that's going on now? I was a plain old townie. It was a lot of fun being a bad guy, but I'm not lucky enough to get that role every game. You might as well vote for someone based on their name.
Hey, I got voted against because I have a striped tail!

I was gonna FOS that guy right back, but voting against a random voter seemed pointless and not likely to gain anything. OK, I guess I gotta read the whole monster second thread so I can get a better feel for you. But you're sneaky. Oh yes you are. And I mean that in a good way. That's good for us if you're town, bad for us if you're in the waste management business.

[nesta]

Are early aggressive players more likely to be scum or town, barring wine-in-front-of-me metathink?
I think in general most new WW/Mafia players tend to lay low for a while when given a power role. I'm very new at this myself, though, so I could be wrong. Of course, that's where the wine-in-front-of-me comes in, since lurking has been pointed out as a scum tell in both SDMB games so far. I'm pretty sure in both games we've had that there have been a couple of scum who started out being fairly vocal.

Uh, so, it could be either?

I disagree that random votes are better, though. It's too easy for scum to hide behind a random vote (even though it wasn't truly random) and claim no responsibility. It also limits the information we can gain from day 1. Voting for stupid, small reasons is about the best you can expect this early in the game, but at least we can make people defend why they voted for someone. Also, pressuring everyone to vote / FOS the first day makes it so scum can't just sit on the sidelines. They need to feel obligated to jump into the middle of things so that they start to leave a trail.