What's the trick to Persian girls?

[Grossbottom]

White guys are invisible to Persian girls, aren’t they? I’ve had my share of tough projects, extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses, I’m not completely unskilled when it comes to the more delicate points and imperialistic overtones of interethnic romance.

But damn. This baby. She’s just….mmmm. The chemistry is good, conversation is real and we just laugh, laugh. She’s got this lameass six (!) year engagement to some Persian dildo that bores the hell out of her, you can just read it on her face. She’s given the ring back at least once. She gives me every signal: the pouting, the hair twirling, the do-you-like-my-outfit, the calling me every now and then just, you know, because.

Is there something I’m not doing here, some subtle trick I don’t know for liberating that ass? She’s Western born and raised, avowed atheist and wouldn’t touch a mosque with a ten foot pole so religion can’t be the issue. Or can it? Brick wall here, people.

Either there’s a secret to scoring with Persian girls, or I don’t have a chance and never did. Which is it? Informed opinions desired from either gender with relevant experience, please end my suffering.

[Rasa]

Have you, I dunno... asked her out? Made your intentions plain?

[Sunspace]

I've never met any Persian girls, but if they're as gorgeous as my my male Persian friend is handsome, they must be knockouts. (And yes, I don't usually look at men and think, "How handsome". I'm as hetero as the day is long, but I appreciate beauty wherever it can be found.)

But I can offer no advice on liberating the women of your dreams from her self-imposed prison, other than to lay it on the line and say, "I'm serously-interested in you for a long-term relationship (or whatever). But I can't wait forever. Choose me or choose him." At least then it would be over.

That being said, there may be family pressure involved. I knew a Portuguese man who married a friend (the stunningly-gorgeous daughter of another friend). They had a child, an adorable dark-eyed boy. His family was against the marriage ("you married an Anglo?") and somehow prevailed upon him to break hhe marriage and abandon his son. There was a divorce. She remarried, to another of my friends, and is now happy. And let me say that her second husband is more of a father to that little boy than her first husband ever was.

So there may be nothing you can do.

Edit: this is not that different than any other nationality of woman, I guess...

[Anaamika]

White guys are invisible to Persian girls, aren’t they? I’ve had my share of tough projects, extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses, I’m not completely unskilled when it comes to the more delicate points and imperialistic overtones of interethnic romance.

But damn. This baby. She’s just….mmmm. The chemistry is good, conversation is real and we just laugh, laugh. She’s got this lameass six (!) year engagement to some Persian dildo that bores the hell out of her, you can just read it on her face. She’s given the ring back at least once. She gives me every signal: the pouting, the hair twirling, the do-you-like-my-outfit, the calling me every now and then just, you know, because.

Is there something I’m not doing here, some subtle trick I don’t know for liberating that ass? She’s Western born and raised, avowed atheist and wouldn’t touch a mosque with a ten foot pole so religion can’t be the issue. Or can it? Brick wall here, people.

Either there’s a secret to scoring with Persian girls, or I don’t have a chance and never did. Which is it? Informed opinions desired from either gender with relevant experience, please end my suffering.

She's just not that into you.

[Grey area]

What makes you so sure that her ethnicity has anything to do with all this?

[Translucent Daydream]

I have a Persian student worker. She says she won't date white guys, but has never explained it to any of us. She isn't particularly religious or anything. It seems to be a cultural preference I suppose.

[Sunspace]

I have a Persian student worker. She says she won't date white guys, but has never explained it to any of us. She isn't particularly religious or anything. It seems to be a cultural preference I suppose.I'd be really curious to find out why.

[Astroboy14]

The secret is: rub the nipples.

[OneCentStamp]

The secret is: rub the nipples.
Dude, if you're at that point, you don't need any more secrets. You're in. That's like saying the secret to hitting a home run is running around the bases.

:D

To the OP: in my (admittedly limited) experience with Iranian families, they've struck me as being incredibly insular and just a tad racist. All the older (my parents' age) Persians I've known have loudly despised Arabs, for example - maybe just because they're tired of being confused for them. Shila, my female Persian friend in high school, wasn't overtly racist, or didn't think of herself as such, but would never have considered marrying a non-Persian. Her family would have flipped.

Any chance that some of that is going on?

[Autolycus]

Have you kissed her? That will give you an answer I think.

[anu-la1979]

She doesn't consider you marriage material but she enjoys the attention. Don't hang around-she's waiting for a rich persian guy who will marry her.

[Waverly]

Why would you think there is a secret unique to an ethnicity based on your anecdotal, and limitted, experience with a sample size of one? Unless she is a rug or a cat, by the way, Persian is an unusual way to describe her unless you have only spoken to her in Parsi and have no idea whatsoever which modern country she hails from.

[Lemur866]

Persians/Iranians are notorious for not marrying outside their ethnicity. Fool around, sure. But marry, no way, unless they're prepared to cut off all ties with their families.

So let her know that you're interested in a sex-only relationship with no possibility of anything deeper, and she'll be all over it.

Or it could be that she's not that into you.

[Jodi]

Either there’s a secret to scoring with Persian girls, or I don’t have a chance and never did. Which is it?

Couldn't it be both? 'Cause, y'know, if there was a secret to scoring with this Iranian girl and she was interested in you, she'd tell you what the secret was. Since she hasn't . . . you do the math.

[Mr. Moto]

I dated a Persian girl for a very short time. It was frankly too short for any of the family dynamics to manifest themselves, and I never met any of her relatives.

She was cute, too.

So I have no advice to give you. Sorry. ;)

[tremorviolet]

Are we talking Persian as in Zoarastrian? They believe that you cannot convert to the religion, you must be born into it and are usually really reluctant to date outside their religion IME. I had a female Persian friend who always bemoaned the lack of selection available to her but, as a memeber of a small and diminishing group, wouldn't think of dating elsewhere. She (and the beautiful Persian boy i had absolutely no luck with) would meet potential suitors at gatherings just for young Persians.

[Quartz]

Is she a Zoroastran? I believe they only marry inside their religion.

[Mr. Moto]

The girl I dated was a Shiite.

[Count Blucher]

Is she a Catherine Bell? If she is, you have less of a chance of dating her than winning the PowerBall 3 drawings straight.

[susan]

some subtle trick I don’t know for liberating that ass?I can't speak for her, but if it were me, talking about me this way on a public message board would pretty much guarantee the opposite would happen.

[scotandrsn]

...Unless she is a rug or a cat, by the way, Persian is an unusual way to describe her unless you have only spoken to her in Parsi and have no idea whatsoever which modern country she hails from.

Obviously your experience with this population is limited if you have not once realized there is a huge segment of it that does not wish to be associated with modern connotations of Iran, for a variety of reasons.

I teach many students with roots in that country, and if I ever hear ethnicity discussed among my students (it's a very cosmopolitan school, so it comes up fairly regularly), they invariably describe themselves as Persian.

[you with the face]

Unless she is a rug or a cat, by the way, Persian is an unusual way to describe her unless you have only spoken to her in Parsi and have no idea whatsoever which modern country she hails from.

This isn't the first time I've noticed the usage of Persian in lieu of say, Iranian-American. Is there something to this observation? I'm wondering if people think it's cooler to say "I'm Persian" rather drawing attention to their country of origin.

[Waverly]

Obviously your experience with this population is limited if you have not once realized there is a huge segment of it that does not wish to be associated with modern connotations of Iran, for a variety of reasons.Really, I didn't think of that. :smack: Thanks. Thanks so much for schooling me on this cultural nuance.

Now that you have, would you like to know what I think? Hmm?

Tough. I don’t like to be associated with many of the things American, culturally or politically, as of late. But it isn’t an option to pretend I’m something else.

[Cat Fight]

Can't really help you. Every Iranian girl I know dislikes Iranian guys. And if this person's an avowed atheist, chances are she's not a slave to family tradition. This an engaged girl problem, not a Persian girl problem.

[Grey area]

I'm somewhat surprised how supportive everyone is of someone trying to "liberate that ass" of someone who's engaged, regardless of cultural background or how the OP perceives that relationship.

[Sunspace]

I'm somewhat surprised how supportive everyone is of someone trying to "liberate that ass" of someone who's engaged, regardless of cultural background or how the OP perceives that relationship.The OP said she gave the ring back. It sounds like she doesn't want to be in the engagement.

I suspect there is no chance for a relationship; according to the OP there has been plenty of oppurtunity, and if she really wanted to move out of the failed engagement and move towards the OP, she would have.

Maybe the attitude embodied in the 'liberate that ass' phrasing is part of the roadblock for the OP.

Or maybe as in Post #4, she's just not that into the OP.

[pinkfreud]

When my husband was in college, he dated a Persian girl. It wasn't a big romance, but he enjoyed going out with her, and they remained friends for many years. The secret to his success: he learned a little bit of Farsi.

[Grey area]

The OP said she gave the ring back. It sounds like she doesn't want to be in the engagement.
He said she gave the ring back at least once. Maybe the OP can clear this up, but I was under the impression they are still engaged but have had some rough patches. I don't expect that anyone trying to pursue someone already in a relationship is going to say that their relationship is doing well. How else would he be 'liberating' her?

[Zebra]

I know the trick to Persian girls.

I will trade that info for the trick to any of the following girls.

French Girls
English Girls,
New York City Girls, (broken down by borough if necessary)
Girls who use the name Anaamika on message boards

[Grossbottom]

Have you, I dunno... asked her out? Made your intentions plain?
No, we hang out randomly because she's engaged, and she knows I'm interested. We also do business on occasion.

What makes you so sure that her ethnicity has anything to do with all this?
It's just a vibe, I dunno. I've gotten it before but never from a woman I wanted quite this badly. It's truly bumming me out.

To the OP: in my (admittedly limited) experience with Iranian families, they've struck me as being incredibly insular and just a tad racist. All the older (my parents' age) Persians I've known have loudly despised Arabs, for example - maybe just because they're tired of being confused for them. Shila, my female Persian friend in high school, wasn't overtly racist, or didn't think of herself as such, but would never have considered marrying a non-Persian. Her family would have flipped.

Any chance that some of that is going on?
Totally. She says she'd never date an Arab and her fiance is, properly speaking, Syrian rather than Persian. Apparently her mother doesn't approve of him on that basis alone.

Why would you think there is a secret unique to an ethnicity based on your anecdotal, and limitted, experience with a sample size of one? Unless she is a rug or a cat, by the way, Persian is an unusual way to describe her unless
On preview, nevermind.

Persians/Iranians are notorious for not marrying outside their ethnicity. Fool around, sure. But marry, no way, unless they're prepared to cut off all ties with their families.
I know, everyone keeps saying this! But I know Persian guys who hunt blondes for marriage like crazy, and I'm just trying to pull some sort of gender exchange program here. Do the guys that score blondes get thrown off the island or something?

Is she a Zoroastran? I believe they only marry inside their religion.
No idea, but I hadn't really thought about that angle. I guess there's a chance she could be, it has never come up but I suppose I should check. I'll drop Freddie Mercury's name next time we grab a coffee.

She doesn't consider you marriage material but she enjoys the attention. Don't hang around-she's waiting for a rich persian guy who will marry her.
That's the sound of my withered heart breaking. Maybe I can ramp up the bling? Buy more stuff with logos? Is there anyway to compensate for being wonderbread? :(

Maybe the attitude embodied in the 'liberate that ass' phrasing is part of the roadblock for the OP.
Ok, yeah, I think it's safe to say the OP doesn't actually say things like that to actual real live girls. And in truth, I've known her long enough and am comfortable enough with her that if I did say it, she'd think it was funny in an inept playa kind of way. So for purposes of this discussion, let's assume I've passed Talking to Girls 101.

[OneCentStamp]

I know the trick to Persian girls.

I will trade that info for the trick to any of the following girls.

French Girls
English Girls,
New York City Girls, (broken down by borough if necessary)
Girls who use the name Anaamika on message boards

Sure, here: TAG body spray. Lots of it.

What can I say? I'm not a real skeptical mind.

[Dante]

Try to feign a higher level of interest in her. You know, pretend she's a real person, that sort of thing. Remember, nothing gets on woman on her back with her legs behind her ears faster than if you can fool her into thinking you actually respect her as a person.

[Jodi]

Wow, this thread just gets more and more charming every time I check it.

[OneCentStamp]

Remember, nothing gets on woman on her back with her legs behind her ears faster than if you can fool her into thinking you actually respect her as a person.
Nothing, with the possible exception of yoga lessons.

[Sunspace]

Try to feign a higher level of interest in her. You know, pretend she's a real person, that sort of thing. Remember, nothing gets on woman on her back with her legs behind her ears faster than if you can fool her into thinking you actually respect her as a person.And with that, I'm checking out of this thread. :rolleyes:

[Capa84]

I don't know but if you all figure it out, PM me with it. I'm pretty sure I was put on this earth to marry Shaghayegh (Iranian pop star who now lives in LA, as Claudia Lynx)
http://www.myspace.com/claudialynx

[Grossbottom]

Remember, nothing gets on woman on her back with her legs behind her ears faster than if you can fool her into thinking you actually respect her as a person.
But I only wanted people with relevant experience to respond. You'd have to have been with a woman to know any of that.

[Dante]

I was debating putting a rolleyes at the end of my post. I guess I should have.

[liberty3701]

Ok, yeah, I think it's safe to say the OP doesn't actually say things like that to actual real live girls. And in truth, I've known her long enough and am comfortable enough with her that if I did say it, she'd think it was funny in an inept playa kind of way. So for purposes of this discussion, let's assume I've passed Talking to Girls 101.It's not about talking to her. It's about thinking of her, referring to her like she was a human being and not a piece of ass.

[Cervaise]

Ok, yeah, I think it's safe to say the OP doesn't actually say things like that to actual real live girls.Sorry, you're SOL. Persian girls have psychic powers. That's what sets them apart; they're kinda unique that way. She knows you just want to work her sweet Farsi meat-garden with your man-plough, and she's having fun playing with you. On the other hand, if you can fill your mind with thoughts of her body draped in endless chains of gold finery, you might be able to distract her, and thus have a shot at spearing that bitch. Give it a try and report back.

[OneCentStamp]

Sorry, you're SOL. Persian girls have psychic powers. That's what sets them apart; they're kinda unique that way. She knows you just want to work her sweet Farsi meat-garden with your man-plough, and she's having fun playing with you. On the other hand, if you can fill your mind with thoughts of her body draped in endless chains of gold finery, you might be able to distract her, and thus have a shot at spearing that bitch. Give it a try and report back.
I laughed out loud at this, a sure sign that I was surprised. Bravo.

[Jodi]

It's not about talking to her. It's about thinking of her, referring to her like she was a human being and not a piece of ass.

An engaged piece of ass who, since she has failed to surrender the pink, must be wearing a cultural chastity belt that the OP'er will be able to spring as soon as he discovers that super-secret thing that makes Persian wimmens rip off their panties. :rolleyes:

[lieu]

Sunspace, Dante's a good guy. He was very much being a tad sarcastic there.

Grossbottom, two ideas here; you could either buy the Some Girls album because they explain everything your stated mindset is looking for there, or you could do as many have suggested and adopt a more genuine, caring attitude toward her instead of belittling her with some cultural "trick" to bed her down.

[anu-la1979]

Grossbottom: That's the sound of my withered heart breaking. Maybe I can ramp up the bling? Buy more stuff with logos? Is there anyway to compensate for being wonderbread?

I am not trying to break your heart, I am just speaking as someone who is ethnic and has a lot of girlfriends who are either ME or Indian.

I generally don't lead people on-I want another Indian so when I get attention from people outside my ethnicity I actively discourage them. But there is a subset of chicks who know they want someone from their own ethnicity for a marriage but still enjoy the attention.

Then again, who knows...but the fact that she has a fiance and is still flirting with you leads me to believe that she enjoys the headgames (toying with you, keeping her real marriage potential type person) but won't commit to anything other than a dinner she will later play off as a "just friends" thing.

Also if she's in her late 20s chances are high she's probably husband hunting, anyway.

Maybe you should try someone unattached and mature whose Persianness is just one aspect of a whole you really enjoy-rather than trying to get with her to click off a box on your foreign chick list. Because to me, that's what your OP sort of reeks of.

[Duke of Rat]

I see you baby, liberatin' that ass, liberatin' that ass.

[OneCentStamp]

Maybe you should try someone unattached and mature whose Persianness is just one aspect of a whole you really enjoy
Or a hole you really enjoy, for that matter.

[Waverly]

Sorry, you're SOL. Persian girls have psychic powers.You haven’t told him of their other unique feature; or are we keeping that secret? I knew an Iranian girl once (she didn’t have the good sense to call herself Persian), and she was really into anal. The way to a Persian girl’s heart is not through her petite pink petals, but through the chocolate starfish.

[Miller]

The secret is: rub the nipples.

Wait, whose nipples? Hers, or your own?

[Astroboy14]

Wait, whose nipples? Hers, or your own?

Both. Preferably together!

[Cervaise]

Hers, or your own?Hers. Together. Make fire!

[OneCentStamp]

Hers. Together. Make fire!
If they reach that readily, I'm already on fire.

[Grossbottom]

It's not about talking to her. It's about thinking of her, referring to her like she was a human being and not a piece of ass.
No, I get it. We've been friends for over three years, treating her nicely and getting to know her isn't an issue at this point. Your point is well taken but not relevant at the stage of the game where I've traded recipes with her mom.

Also if she's in her late 20s chances are high she's probably husband hunting, anyway.
Yeah, she is. I get what you're saying, she's shopping serious and since she'd never really shop for a white boy at this point, she's not buying in my section of the store at all, even if she was window-shopping there earlier in the game. I guess I can accept that. Dang!

Maybe you should try someone unattached and mature whose Persianness is just one aspect of a whole you really enjoy-rather than trying to get with her to click off a box on your foreign chick list. Because to me, that's what your OP sort of reeks of.
My OP is meant to explain that I've successfully overcome these barriers before, not that there's some sort of collection going on.

An engaged piece of ass who, since she has failed to surrender the pink, must be wearing a cultural chastity belt that the OP'er will be able to spring as soon as he discovers that super-secret thing that makes Persian wimmens rip off their panties.
Seriously, everyone I've told about this who has anything to say on the matter just sort of sighs and says, "Persian? No chance, dude." If I think it's a cultural thing it's because that seems to be the consensus, including input from this other friend of mine who married a Persian guy. I'm just wondering what I can do about it.

if you can fill your mind with thoughts of her body draped in endless chains of gold finery, you might be able to distract her, and thus have a shot at spearing that bitch. Give it a try and report back.
Your wisdom is boundless. I will name our first child after you.


For all who think I'm a crazy: I'm still waiting for someone to claim firsthand knowledge either way. Aha! See? Sound of crickets. I am so not imagining this issue. :D

[Grey area]

Seriously, everyone I've told about this who has anything to say on the matter just sort of sighs and says, "Persian? No chance, dude." If I think it's a cultural thing it's because that seems to be the consensus, including input from this other friend of mine who married a Persian guy. I'm just wondering what I can do about it.

Well, we don't mind that you're pursuing a Persian, but more concerned with the fact that she's engaged and you want to "liberate that ass", which is something else entirely.
If you want to know what I think you should do, I think you should not pursue her. Be her friend and flirt with her all you want, but it's not cool to go after somebody else's woman, whether you succeed or not.

[scotandrsn]

Really, I didn't think of that. :smack: Thanks. Thanks so much for schooling me on this cultural nuance.

Now that you have, would you like to know what I think? Hmm?

Tough. I don’t like to be associated with many of the things American, culturally or politically, as of late. But it isn’t an option to pretend I’m something else.

Say that I move to France and embrace French culture, so that when French people ask my ethnicity I tell them my family hails from "L'Etats-Unis". And let's say a few years down the line, the French government decides to respect an American request that the official international name for my country should be "Ganada" or "Bexico", I can't keep calling it "L'Etats-Unis" if I like that name better, or if I don't like what the Ganadian or Bexican government stands for?

Doesn't make sense.

[Jodi]

Seriously, everyone I've told about this who has anything to say on the matter just sort of sighs and says, "Persian? No chance, dude." If I think it's a cultural thing it's because that seems to be the consensus, including input from this other friend of mine who married a Persian guy. I'm just wondering what I can do about it.

Nothing, according to all the people who have anything to say on the matter.

[Grossbottom]

Well, we don't mind that you're pursuing a Persian, but more concerned with the fact that she's engaged and you want to "liberate that ass", which is something else entirely.
Fair enough. But a six year engagement is open season in my book, and I know for a fact in this case that if she wanted it done it would have been done. There's a difference between a couple in love and a couple just killing time, or at least a girl who's just killing time. Cue the dopers posting their stories, but this is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing, according to all the people who have anything to say on the matter.
Which is a grand total of Anu-la1979, sorting for relevancy? Lo, my hope springs eternal.

[Grey area]

Fair enough. But a six year engagement is open season in my book, and I know for a fact in this case that if she wanted it done it would have been done. There's a difference between a couple in love and a couple just killing time, or at least a girl who's just killing time. Cue the dopers posting their stories, but this is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

You forgot to quote the rest of my post. But like I already said, what you're trying to do is not cool. But that's my opinion. You can do whatever you want.

[Gatopescado]

Dude, if you're at that point, you don't need any more secrets. You're in. That's like saying the secret to hitting a home run is running around the bases.



I'd just like to say that I've been there and blown the deal. A couple times at least.

Damn! Just remembered another..............

[Dante]

Sunspace, Dante's a good guy. He was very much being a tad sarcastic there.Thanks lieu. Back atcha.
But I only wanted people with relevant experience to respond. You'd have to have been with a woman to know any of that.Honestly, "virgin" as an insult? Do people still do that?

[Jodi]

Which is a grand total of Anu-la1979, sorting for relevancy? Lo, my hope springs eternal.

What, don't you read your own posts?

everyone I've told about this who has anything to say on the matter just sort of sighs and says, "Persian? No chance, dude." If I think it's a cultural thing it's because that seems to be the consensus, including input from this other friend of mine who married a Persian guy.

[Ephemera]

I know the trick to Persian girls.

I will trade that info for the trick to any of the following girls.

Girls who use the name Anaamika on message boards

Sullen moodiness. Gets them every time.

[LouisB]

An unusual people are the Persians
They make love all day
In the usual way
And save the night
For perversions

I don't remember the author.

[liberty3701]

No, I get it. We've been friends for over three years, treating her nicely and getting to know her isn't an issue at this point. Your point is well taken but not relevant at the stage of the game where I've traded recipes with her mom. No, you don't get it. I'm not trying to help you get the girl. What I'm trying to say is that the way you talked about her in your OP was pretty misogynistic.

[Grossbottom]

What, don't you read your own posts?
Yeah, I meant everyone I've talked to in the real world. Not on the internets.

No, you don't get it. I'm not trying to help you get the girl. What I'm trying to say is that the way you talked about her in your OP was pretty misogynistic.
Well why didn't you just say that my taking a moment to objectify my friend sexually is reflective of a hatred of women? I don't agree. I can talk about wanting to tap my friend's perfect ass without hating anything. If someone reads "hates women" into that then that's their baggage, not mine.

[Duke of Rat]

I see you baby, tappin' that ass, tappin' that ass.

(If you are blessed enough to have never heard the song, then you won't get the reference)

[anu-la1979]

Grossbottom: My OP is meant to explain that I've successfully overcome these barriers before, not that there's some sort of collection going on.

Okay, my sincerest apologies for the insinuation then. Everything else I say still stands, though. She's probably husband hunting-unless you approach her like husband potential she's not going to go for it. If you don't want to get married, kiss it goodbye.

[liberty3701]

Well why didn't you just say that my taking a moment to objectify my friend sexually is reflective of a hatred of women? I don't agree. I can talk about wanting to tap my friend's perfect ass without hating anything. If someone reads "hates women" into that then that's their baggage, not mine. Hmmm...
extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' nosesliberating that assPersian girls...Indian/Greek/Chinese girls...This baby...to scoring with Persian girls Emphasis added.actual real live girls....Talking to Girls 101Emphasis added.

I don't care if you want to have sexual relations with her. Maybe you don't actually think this way, but it sounds like you only view this woman as a sexual object instead of a person. So, you may want to be more careful about how you talk about her if you truly do view her as more than a piece of ass.

[MN_Maenad]

Lo, my hope springs eternal.
*sigh*

OK, let's try being blunt.

Ethnicity does not matter. This girl is leading you on because she likes the attention and enjoys your desperation. She. Is. Not. Into. You. Suck it up and deal with it. Go chase someone else and stop wasting your time.

[Jodi]

Yeah, I meant everyone I've talked to in the real world. Not on the internets.

And I meant everyone you've talked to in the real world, not on the internet, so why did you respond by talking about Anu-la? THE PEOPLE YOU CLAIM WOULD KNOW tell you that you have zero chance with this girl. Since you say they'd know, seems like that would be the end of the discussion. Is there any way to get this girl? "People who would know" and Magic 8 Ball say NO.

[msmith537]

...extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses


What is a typical 'share'? If I'm entitled to a few extra Indian, Greek or Chineese girls, I want to be sure I collect.

[Anaamika]

Sullen moodiness. Gets them every time.
Hey, fuck you! :p

Just for that, I'm goin' with Zebra.

[Sailboat]

I have a Persian student worker. She says she won't date white guys, but has never explained it to any of us. She isn't particularly religious or anything. It seems to be a cultural preference I suppose.

Wait...aren't Persians/Iranians considered Caucasians? They're not Arabs/Semitic. I know race is a construct, but saying Persians aren't white seems like splitting even more hairs than usual.

Sailboat

[Gorgonzola]

This strikes me as a shallow view. There's not a "trick" to any identifiable group of people. I always thought that was the thing that keeps us bothering to talk to each other. Maybe she's just a little eeped out by someone spending time with her in order to idly poke at what her "trick" is.

[Cervaise]

But that's just the thing! If she'd just let him have his idle poke, he'd stop bothering her!

[John Carter of Mars]

<snip>
If you want to know what I think you should do, I think you should not pursue her. Be her friend and flirt with her all you want, but it's not cool to go after somebody else's woman, whether you succeed or not.(bolding mine)

Sez who? It's always up to the woman to say no, and a guy can pursue all he cares to.
Them's the rules.

[Sleel]

No, I get it. We've been friends for over three years . . .
There's your problem. It has nothing to do with culture, you're simply on the "friend" ladder. Since you're a friend, she can be flirty without consequence because for her you're about as sexual as a teddy bear (shuttup, Plushies, don't want to hear from you). Might as well forget about getting her to see you as a beddable male at this point. Ain't gonna happen if it hasn't already.

The one outside chance you've got is to be blunt, state your intentions openly, or make an unmistakable move like moving to intimate distance and trying to kiss her. Face the high probability that you'll lose the relationship completely if she really isn't that into you. If you're willing to take that risk, then there's a very, very small chance that it'll work out.

Otherwise, she'll cut you out of her life, and if my experience and that of my other male friends is anything to judge by, will be riding some other guy like a bronco buster a couple of weeks to a month after you stop sucking up all her time. He'll probably be some jerk that you'll hate with a visceral violence. She may or may not initiate another ring return due to finding a penis to play with.

[Cyberhwk]

Obviously your experience with this population is limited if you have not once realized there is a huge segment of it that does not wish to be associated with modern connotations of Iran, for a variety of reasons.Yes...I know someone from Iran who refuses to go by anything but his initials. Everything but ultra official documents only get his initials.

He's a good guy. Has an awfully bad temper though.

[Grey area]

(bolding mine)
Sez who? It's always up to the woman to say no, and a guy can pursue all he cares to.
Them's the rules.
But like I already said, what you're trying to do is not cool. But that's my opinion. You can do whatever you want.
Hey if you two want to chase married and/or engaged women, more power to you. Just make sure the husband/fiance doesn't find out, because I don't think they'd appreciate that.

[Rodd Hill]

Clearly, you have no salt.

[FriarTed]

Wait...aren't Persians/Iranians considered Caucasians? They're not Arabs/Semitic. I know race is a construct, but saying Persians aren't white seems like splitting even more hairs than usual.

Sailboat

It's not that Persians aren't white, but that most whites aren't Persian. Heck, it still strikes me odd that Hispanics aren't considered white by many people.

[msmith537]

Seriously, everyone I've told about this who has anything to say on the matter just sort of sighs and says, "Persian? No chance, dude." If I think it's a cultural thing it's because that seems to be the consensus, including input from this other friend of mine who married a Persian guy. I'm just wondering what I can do about it.


That basically translates into "how the fuck should I know how to pick up this girl? If I knew that I'd be banging her myself so I might as well blame it on being Persian."

Maybe you should try decorating your appartment with blue carpeting and golden curtainrods and wearing an open silk shirt with gold chains and designer sunglasses?

What I have observed is that the only "trick" to getting a girl from a strong ethnic culture that isn't yours (Italian, Greek, Indian, Jewish, Middle Eastern, etc) is to find one who a) is from a very Americanized family where the cultural ties are not that strong or b) find a strong-willed second generation girl who finds here cultural restrictions backward or stifling.

Other than that I got nothing. I've mostly been with Anglo/Germanic girls.

[Grossbottom]

Honestly, "virgin" as an insult? Do people still do that?
No one said anything about you being a virgin.

So, you may want to be more careful about how you talk about her if you truly do view her as more than a piece of ass.
Why would I be "careful"? What happens if I don't, the word police arrest me? This a thread about banging a chick, and that should have been obvious in the OP. If you don't like my terms, stop reading. I'm okay with your not liking them, the way I'm okay with talking about all my relationships without cite checking feminist literature for political orthodoxy. And believe me, if you think the terms you highlighted are "pretty misogynistic," then it's gonna be rough going on this front. Pretty misogynistic is someone wrapped in a burqa, ballgagged, strapped to a table and forced to listen to "We Want Some Pussy" by 2 Live Crew. This? Please.

There's your problem. It has nothing to do with culture, you're simply on the "friend" ladder. Since you're a friend, she can be flirty without consequence because for her you're about as sexual as a teddy bear (shuttup, Plushies, don't want to hear from you). Might as well forget about getting her to see you as a beddable male at this point. Ain't gonna happen if it hasn't already.
It's been so long since I did the friend thing...do people honestly still do that in the late 20's-early 20's? I haven't seen that in forever. You might be right though. Ohhuhhm. Hmm. Oh god, she can't be thinking I'm doing that, how humiliating. It wasn't like that. Now I need to unfriend without making a move because if I do then she'll just think I was doing the friend thing which I wasn't. This is horrifying. :smack:

[Grey area]

Clearly, you have no salt.
Huh?

[lieu]

Hers. Together. Make fire!First damn post I've read here all day and I'm already laughing.

[Zebra]

Hey, fuck you! :p

Just for that, I'm goin' with Zebra.


RESULT!


Is there anyway you could switch the verbs from those two sentences?

[Captain Lance Murdoch]

I know, but I'm taking the secret to my grave.

[kidchameleon]

Perhaps she knows you haven't bought any earplugs (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8506678&postcount=35).

[Anaamika]

Look, I kind of found the whole OP a smidge...well, off-putting. If I ever found out someone was talking about me like this I'd never want to have sex with them. I found it creepy as hell.

Persian girls are just girls, too. And I still maintain that she's just not that into you. I am E. Indian and when I wanted a gauy in my dating days, trust me, he knew it. No tricks were necessary.

If she's playing games it's because she likes the games better. If she got you into bed, the games would no longer be fun.

I've got no problem with you banging all the chicks you want and even being misogynistic about it. The whole "classifying girls by their race" in how easy they are to get into bed makes me want to never sleep with a white guy again, though I realize some of you all are gentlemen.

I hope this didn't sound too harsh! Mostly I couldn't care less about one more sleazy guy making his way through girls...it's just not gonna be me. :)

Zebra, I'll think about it. :)

[Dante]

No one said anything about you being a virgin.
Ah, "homosexual" as an insult. Dazzling.

This a thread about banging a chick, and that should have been obvious in the OP. If you don't like my terms, stop reading. You starts a thread, you takes your chances.

[John Carter of Mars]

Hey if you two want to chase married and/or engaged women, more power to you. Just make sure the husband/fiance doesn't find out, because I don't think they'd appreciate that.

If he's Takin' Care of Business, he won't have that problem. The woman will discourage the chaser. If he's not Takin' Care of Business, then it's his fault if some Other Guy is able to score.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

Obviously your experience with this population is limited if you have not once realized there is a huge segment of it that does not wish to be associated with modern connotations of Iran, for a variety of reasons.

I teach many students with roots in that country, and if I ever hear ethnicity discussed among my students (it's a very cosmopolitan school, so it comes up fairly regularly), they invariably describe themselves as Persian.

Seconded. Most of my neighbors in the building I live in are Persian, and they always use 'Persia' and 'Persian' to describe their country of origin and their culture.

[Rodd Hill]

r4nd0mNumb3rs: it's a Persian proverb thing:

http://www.iranian.com/Saghari/2004/December/Language/index.html

My fave: "Go rub your whey."

[Grey area]

If he's Takin' Care of Business, he won't have that problem. The woman will discourage the chaser. If he's not Takin' Care of Business, then it's his fault if some Other Guy is able to score.
Oh, so that's how it works... In that case, can I have your SO's number? I got some ass liberating to do.

[Cat Fight]

Why would I be "careful"? What happens if I don't, the word police arrest me?

I think the implication was that you'll end up hurting someone, a friend of three years. Though maybe that should be 'friend.' Nothing a gal likes more than finding out you've just been biding your time, waiting to fuck her (see: A Doll's House).

[Cervaise]

I think the implication was that you'll end up hurting someone, a friend of three years.Who cares. It's pussy!

[SailedTheOceanBlue]

I've only known one white guy that married a Persian gal. He spoke Farsi. Take from that what you will.

(Dude, what is up with people being so uptight around here? Like you're the first person in the history of the world to chase an engaged person? If she hasn't married him yet, she's looking for someone better. Or he is. Go forth and liberate!)

[Sleel]

It's been so long since I did the friend thing...do people honestly still do that in the late 20's-early 20's? I haven't seen that in forever. You might be right though. Ohhuhhm. Hmm. Oh god, she can't be thinking I'm doing that, how humiliating. It wasn't like that. Now I need to unfriend without making a move because if I do then she'll just think I was doing the friend thing which I wasn't. This is horrifying. :smack:

Women in their mid-twenties and older still do that. I've known women in their 40s who had male friends that they thought of as nothing more than friends; I'm not so sure the guy was thinking that he was excluded from her pool of available penises, though. The thing is, it's not really a game, it's just how most women think. And once you're in the friend zone it's very difficult to get out. It usually takes behavior shocking enough to end the prior relationship if it doesn't work out.

Making a move doesn't mean that you can't explain that you used to think of her as a friend but now are attracted to her, or that you respected her previous relationships enough to not intrude but now are seeing signals and an opportunity to change things. If you're going to manage the jump from friend to relationship anyway, telling about your feelings isn't going to do any further harm, and might just help.

I've been with women from lots of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds, (including a short-term thing with a Persian girl in college now that I think about it) and there's not really any "trick" to any of them. Women like pretty much the same things no matter what their upbringing or background. Most of the stuff that whitebread American chicks value will work for Persian, Chinese, Brazilian, or whatever women. Make a woman feel special, valued, safe, and strike a balance between being slightly dominant and making sure she feels like she has an "out" from things so that she doesn't feel trapped, and you're pretty much golden.

Notice that all of this precludes your being an asshole most of the time. If you're going after someone who consistently likes to be treated badly, you're chasing trouble.

[DocCathode]

Learn how to say "I want to be in your anus." in Farsi.

Give her photos of yourself masturbating.

Give her semen-stained photos of herself.

Dress as a soldier. Proclaim your mission to liberate that ass.

Suggest that you should give eachother pubic make overs.

Burn your name in her front lawn.

Give her half a roasted camel and say, "Be my lady marmalade."

During a conversation, suddenly dive to the ground and begin sucking her toes madly.

Rub baklava into your chest hair. Say "You know you want it baby."

Tell her that in your heart, SHE'LL always be America's Next Top Model.

Have her name tattooed on your tongue.

Buy a realdoll made to look just like her. Take it everywhere.

[DocCathode]

Sculpt her nude likeness in cheese.

Ask to drink her dirty bathwater.

Tell her you are secretly Cecil Adams.

Sing "Pizza! Pizza!" over and over again.

Allow her to catch you washing her car with your tongue.

Get a Mike Tyson puppet. Tell her she's a real knock out. Then, bite off her ear and threaten to eat her children.

Grab her engagement ring and drop it down your pants. Tell her to "come and get it, baby. Do I make you horny, baby?"

Tap, in morse code, upon her left wrist the screenplay for Titanic.

[John Carter of Mars]

Oh, so that's how it works... In that case, can I have your SO's number? I got some ass liberating to do.

I wouldn't have a problem with giving you her number. She's been hit on a bunch of times before and turned 'em down. She'd just turn you down too. That's what a woman that's contented with her situation does.

Married, engaged, or not, if your lady's attractive, guys are going to check her out to see if she's available for hanky-panky or whatever. You want a girl nobody else finds attractive? You got security issues or somethin'?

[Grey area]

I wouldn't have a problem with giving you her number. She's been hit on a bunch of times before and turned 'em down. She'd just turn you down too. That's what a woman that's contented with her situation does.

Married, engaged, or not, if your lady's attractive, guys are going to check her out to see if she's available for hanky-panky or whatever. You want a girl nobody else finds attractive? You got security issues or somethin'?
It's a matter of decency. What are you trying to achieve? You succeed, you're screwing up another guy's engagement/marriage. You can say "well someone else would've done it," and maybe that's true but I want no part in something like that, and not because I'm afraid of this hypothetical husband. If you don't succeed, you're just an arrogant dipshit for trying.
Maybe I do have security issues, because quite frankly I don't like it when guys chase after my SO despite the fact she tells them she not available. It doesn't destroy my world, but it is irksome and I don't think very highly of those men. So you're saying you honestly wouldn't mind if I did know your SO and was genuinely trying to sleep with her? Would you think highly of me?
But I am becoming increasingly aware (surprisingly) that my opinion is not a popular one, so I'll let you guys go on and be the Spartacus of ass liberation for all I care.

[John Carter of Mars]

So you're saying you honestly wouldn't mind if I did know your SO and was genuinely trying to sleep with her?
Not a problem, as long as you understand what NO means when she says it to you.

Would you think highly of me?
I wouldn't think much about you one way or the other. Just another guy doin' what guys do. No harm, no foul.

[Quint]

Women in their mid-twenties and older still do that. I've known women in their 40s who had male friends that they thought of as nothing more than friends; I'm not so sure the guy was thinking that he was excluded from her pool of available penises, though. The thing is, it's not really a game, it's just how most women think. And once you're in the friend zone it's very difficult to get out. It usually takes behavior shocking enough to end the prior relationship if it doesn't work out.

Making a move doesn't mean that you can't explain that you used to think of her as a friend but now are attracted to her, or that you respected her previous relationships enough to not intrude but now are seeing signals and an opportunity to change things. If you're going to manage the jump from friend to relationship anyway, telling about your feelings isn't going to do any further harm, and might just help.

I've been with women from lots of different cultures and ethnic backgrounds, (including a short-term thing with a Persian girl in college now that I think about it) and there's not really any "trick" to any of them. Women like pretty much the same things no matter what their upbringing or background. Most of the stuff that whitebread American chicks value will work for Persian, Chinese, Brazilian, or whatever women. Make a woman feel special, valued, safe, and strike a balance between being slightly dominant and making sure she feels like she has an "out" from things so that she doesn't feel trapped, and you're pretty much golden.

Notice that all of this precludes your being an asshole most of the time. If you're going after someone who consistently likes to be treated badly, you're chasing trouble.
This is good advice for the OP. I'm gonna add specifics that any young fellow who finds himself in the "friend zone" and wants to break out of it can use. Listen up kids, this is gold.

You can't suddenly make a move like trying to kiss her or laying bare your desire in a heart to heart talk. This kind of sudden shift is only going to result in shock, not reciprocity. What you need is "incidental intimate contact"- seemingly innocuous contact which brings you physically closer together without initially seeming to break the constraints of your "friendly" relationship. I'm not talking bout hugging. Hugging is too intimate while at the same time being something done between friends/family/people in a team building exercise on a corporate weekend. Forget hugging.

Here is what you do. First, offer her your arm as you walk down the street. Might seem cheezy at first, but trust me, it is the ideal first step. It's not something she'll do with many people, and it will seem in keeping with your friendship. You head off down the street, and nearly as a joke you offer her the crook of your arm to link with hers. It'll probably seem a little corny, funny, old-fashioned, she'll think "why not"? Next you're walking arm in arm down the street on a carefree, friendly jaunt through friendlytown. You've just bumped things up one notch.

Next step- this is a doozy- hold her hand. There is in my experience no single intimate act more derided or ignored than hand-holding. If you can get her to take your hand you are well over halfway there. This has worked for me more times than I can tell you. It's always the same- hold out your hand... she may hesitate, but ultimately when she takes it she'll know. She'll know you want more than friendship. As you walk with her hand in yours, you'll know too. When do friends walk hand in hand down the street? It's an intimacy that has lost favour and therefore can be attempted without fear. A line will have been crossed, and without having to say anything you'll both know that you have initiated intimate physical contact with the intention of pursuing her further. I don't guarantee success, but I guarantee if you can get her to hold your hand she'll know and consider your true motivations.

After successfully completing these two steps, you can do as you see fit. Myself, I always orchestrate an opportunity for a dance that is intimate yet socially acceptable. Salsa is a good option, but nothing beats swinging to Frank Sinatra. This type of dance involves a lot of necessary intimate contact with the opportunity to add a meaningful squeeze here and there. At this point she'll know you are interested, and may feel that the slow romantic manner in which you have revealed your true feelings are worth seeing if your boudoir manners are a slow and romantic match. After which she may or may not let you "liberate her ass".

May god have mercy on my soul for revealing these priceless techniques to you all.

[Sevastopol]

... For all who think I'm a crazy: I'm still waiting for someone to claim firsthand knowledge either way. Aha! See? Sound of crickets. I am so not imagining this issue. :D / Claims Firsthand Knowledge / I hear no crickets.

Now there is a perfectly plausible argument that my exceptional charm overwhelms the effect you posit. Almost as likely, you perceive an effect that just is not there, making more of your own singular experience, than it merits.

[Argent Towers]

What's the trick to Persian girls?

You need to wear a turban, carry a scimitar, and be able to walk through spike pits and run underneath gates right before they close.

[JThunder]

Have you kissed her? That will give you an answer I think.
Yep. That's where it is.

[pizzabrat]

I'm surprised by the abundance of neutral to positive responses. Are Anaamika the only ones who are absolutely nauseated by the OP (well, Anaamika didn't say she was nauseated, but I was thinking some of the things she said)? "I’ve had my share of tough projects, extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses, I’m not completely unskilled when it comes to the more delicate points and imperialistic overtones of interethnic romance." That's freaking disgusting - and the faux-irony is completely disingenuous.

[Grey area]

Not a problem, as long as you understand what NO means when she says it to you.
What, you think if I really wanted to sleep with her I'm going to just go up to her and say "hey let's fuck"? Anyone with half a brain is not going to set himself up for that sort of easy rejection. I'm not talking about hitting on her, I'm talking about pursuing her.
I wouldn't think much about you one way or the other. Just another guy doin' what guys do. No harm, no foul.
So can I safely say that you yourself have no qualms about pursuing married/engaged women ?

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Try singing Klingon Love Songs to her.

It might not work, but at least you'll have memorized several Klingon Love Songs, & that's always good, right?

[Aangelica]

Me, I've decided that since the OP claims this girl's a friend of his and therefore she presumably knows him, she's decided (like Anaamika and several others in this thread) that she'd rather commit ritual suicide than allow him anywhere near her cooter. Hell, I've never met the OP, but that's my general opinion of him (not that it matters, as I'm not Persian and am happily married to someone who never felt the need to liberate my ass and has the good sense not to refer to me as "girl").

Hence, no need to provide him with the "advice" he's so obnoxiously seeking.

Therefore, the advice given quite early in this thread "She's not that into you" seems to be the most pertinent.

[John Carter of Mars]

What, you think if I really wanted to sleep with her I'm going to just go up to her and say "hey let's fuck"? Anyone with half a brain is not going to set himself up for that sort of easy rejection. I'm not talking about hitting on her, I'm talking about pursuing her.
You could pursue/hit on/ whatever until she became aware of your presence and said the magic word...."NO". After that you'd peel off or get peeled off.

So can I safely say that you yourself have no qualms about pursuing married/engaged women ?

I'm with someone now that I'm satisfied with. When I was single it was a different story. No qualms at all. If some guy picks a girl that wants to play around, that's his problem. His poor judgement creates no obligation in the rest of mankind.

[liberty3701]

Why would I be "careful"? What happens if I don't, the word police arrest me? This a thread about banging a chick, and that should have been obvious in the OP. If you don't like my terms, stop reading. I'm okay with your not liking them, the way I'm okay with talking about all my relationships without cite checking feminist literature for political orthodoxy. And believe me, if you think the terms you highlighted are "pretty misogynistic," then it's gonna be rough going on this front. Pretty misogynistic is someone wrapped in a burqa, ballgagged, strapped to a table and forced to listen to "We Want Some Pussy" by 2 Live Crew. This? Please.I thought the point of the Straight Dope was to fight ignorance, not bask in it.

[MoodIndigo1]

I think the young woman is just playing a sort of ritualistic game that a lot of women play-- its only purpose being to test their desirability.

She's just not into you, or she would have signaled you more clearly.

BTW, I know a drop-dead Persian young woman who married a very, very rich, handsome, and loving Italian-Canadian guy, so the line is not etched in stone.

[gladtobeblazed]

Grossbottom. That's your problem right there buddy, you need to wipe your funky ass! :P

[Chronos]

Y'know, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the second thing about women. But I do know the first thing, and I'm continually amazed by how many guys apparently don't. The first thing about women is that they're human. If I wonder how a woman will feel about something, I ask myself how I would feel. It's not always the right answer, but more often than not, it is, since she, like myself, is human.

So think about it. If the roles were reversed, here, how would you feel? That's your first clue as to what this "piece of ass" thinks about you.

[Grey area]

I'm with someone now that I'm satisfied with. When I was single it was a different story. No qualms at all. If some guy picks a girl that wants to play around, that's his problem. His poor judgement creates no obligation in the rest of mankind.
I don't think because your wife/fiancee cheats, it automatically means you have poor judgment. I personally think that pursuing unavailable women is selfish and in poor taste. Like I said earlier, it's a matter of decency. It's fucking with some hapless dude's life so you can have some fun. If you don't get why I don't think that's cool, then I am at a loss.

[John Carter of Mars]

It's fucking with some hapless dude's life so you can have some fun. If you don't get why I don't think that's cool, then I am at a loss.

I don't think some hapless dude's happiness is my responsibility. At any rate, I'm getting the feeling that I've been around the block a few more times than you have. Be that as it may, let's just agree to disagree on this point. :)

[Grey area]

I don't think some hapless dude's happiness is my responsibility.
Yeah that's not selfish.
At any rate, I'm getting the feeling that I've been around the block a few more times than you have.
And that's not arrogant.
Be that as it may, let's just agree to disagree on this point. :)
Sure thing. =)

[Cervaise]

So think about it. If the roles were reversed, here, how would you feel?"She wants to bang me? SWEET! Rawk on!"

Perhaps here we come to the nub of the problem.

[Grossbottom]

Next step- this is a doozy- hold her hand. There is in my experience no single intimate act more derided or ignored than hand-holding. If you can get her to take your hand you are well over halfway there. This has worked for me more times than I can tell you. It's always the same- hold out your hand... she may hesitate, but ultimately when she takes it she'll know. She'll know you want more than friendship. As you walk with her hand in yours, you'll know too. When do friends walk hand in hand down the street? It's an intimacy that has lost favour and therefore can be attempted without fear. A line will have been crossed, and without having to say anything you'll both know that you have initiated intimate physical contact with the intention of pursuing her further. I don't guarantee success, but I guarantee if you can get her to hold your hand she'll know and consider your true motivations.
Yeah, that's a doozy. But okay, this is good thinking.

I thought the point of the Straight Dope was to fight ignorance, not bask in it.
Your difficulty with understanding the ability to objectify someone sexually while at the same time loving them as a friend and more appears to be the ignorance at work in our particular back and forth. Personally, I find the thought of being in any other sort of romantic relationship repellant and boring.

So think about it. If the roles were reversed, here, how would you feel? That's your first clue as to what this "piece of ass" thinks about you.
She wants to bang me? SWEET! Rawk on! I mean, I wouldn't break off an engagement for it but hey, it's props. Besides, "piece of ass" was a creation of the recreational outrage crew, I wouldn't use it myself.

[Dante]

If you know her as well as you say, wouldn't it be fair to say that she also knows you fairly well? And while she may like you, she may also have figured out that you're the sort of person who would solicit advice on how to fuck her from an internet message board full of strangers.

Some women find that off-putting, I hear.

[Guinastasia]

I'm surprised by the abundance of neutral to positive responses.

No, no you're not. Not at all.

:mad:



Your difficulty with understanding the ability to objectify someone sexually while at the same time loving them as a friend and more appears to be the ignorance at work in our particular back and forth. Personally, I find the thought of being in any other sort of romantic relationship repellant and boring.


And you wonder why we consider you a misogynist? When you truly care about someone, especially as a friend, you don't "objectify" them in any way. You may be sexually attracted, but talking about said person in the following ways:


liberating that ass



tap my friend's perfect ass



banging a chick


Perhaps you shouldn't refer to her as just "that perfect ass" and whatnot.

It has nothing to do with feminism. It has to do with treating someone as a human being. You sound like you're only friends with her because you just want to get into her panties. You see her not as an individual person, but just as a "Persian girl", as if every Persian girl is the same, and there's some sort of "trick" to get them into bed.

Want a casual sexual relationship? No problem. Referring to a friend as just some hot chick you want to bang? Not cool. Not cool at all, dude.

[MacTech]

Try singing Klingon Love Songs to her.

It might not work, but at least you'll have memorized several Klingon Love Songs, & that's always good, right?
If it works, he better be ready to start ducking the heavy thrown objects then.... ;)

whatever you do, don't tell her "HaB SosIl Qch!", it won't end well..... ;)

[Sternvogel]

She says she'd never date an Arab and her fiance is, properly speaking, Syrian rather than Persian.

If his ethnicity is Syrian, he's an Arab. (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0850056.html) Ain't irony grand?

[eleanorigby]

I'm surprised by the abundance of neutral to positive responses. Are Anaamika the only ones who are absolutely nauseated by the OP (well, Anaamika didn't say she was nauseated, but I was thinking some of the things she said)? "I’ve had my share of tough projects, extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses, I’m not completely unskilled when it comes to the more delicate points and imperialistic overtones of interethnic romance." That's freaking disgusting - and the faux-irony is completely disingenuous.


Oh, you're not alone in your disgust. Guys that used to talk to me like this(in college) got a withering look and a "with what?" in response to their statement that they wanted to tap my ass. I was then usually called "frigid bitch."

How annihilating. Somehow I soldiered on.



The OP seems to be that kind of guy.

None of my guy friends would refer to their prospective girlfriends or wives in such a way--or any woman, really. The guys that do are usually referred to as assholes. I see no reason here to change that practice. Persian girl shows solid judgement (except for having him as a friend).

[Guinastasia]

I'd also like to clear up that I don't have a problem with joking around and saying things like, "Damn, I'd like to fuck him six ways to Sunday," or whatever. It's when you start TREATING people as pieces of meat, and you're actually serious, not just goofing around. Does that make sense?

[msmith537]

I'm surprised by the abundance of neutral to positive responses. Are Anaamika the only ones who are absolutely nauseated by the OP (well, Anaamika didn't say she was nauseated, but I was thinking some of the things she said)?


I too am disgusted.

[Grossbottom]

If you know her as well as you say, wouldn't it be fair to say that she also knows you fairly well? And while she may like you, she may also have figured out that you're the sort of person who would solicit advice on how to fuck her from an internet message board full of strangers.
She may have, but I'm more concerned about how you manage to make the art of threadshitting look like such hard work. It's like you're about to pop a blood vessel over there. Remember to stay loose, try to keep it to one sentence, light and breezy, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Three pages of some really good stuff in here, so you should study.

Persian girl shows solid judgement (except for having him as a friend).
Strawman.

And you wonder why we consider you a misogynist?
No. But what I can say is that your post is one of the most learned comments to this thread from one of the most qualified contributors in it.

[eleanorigby]

Watch out, Guin --he'll want to know the secret into how to enter your meatbox!



(and I agree with you re the joking around, but this isn't joking around).

[Ryan_Liam]

Persians/Iranians are notorious for not marrying outside their ethnicity. Fool around, sure. But marry, no way, unless they're prepared to cut off all ties with their families.

So let her know that you're interested in a sex-only relationship with no possibility of anything deeper, and she'll be all over it.

Or it could be that she's not that into you.

Hit the nail right on the head.

OP- I've dated an Iranian myself, sex was good, relationship wise it was kinda boring, after I broke up with her I kept in contact, but then realised she was into guys who were rich (she even said this to me) although I don't think they're notorious for not marryin' outside their race, I do know they're notorious for marrying rich guys.

Well, better start earnin, they're fucking hot. :D

[truthpizza]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia
I'd also like to clear up that I don't have a problem with joking around and saying things like, "Damn, I'd like to fuck him six ways to Sunday," or whatever. It's when you start TREATING people as pieces of meat, and you're actually serious, not just goofing around. Does that make sense?

I agree with this totally. To this point however, while Grossbottom has referred to the Persian woman in terms that are sexual and politically incorrect, I have seen no evidence that he has or would treat her with disrespect or that he would do anything that he thought would hurt her. Perhaps he will offer us his thoughts on these questions.

As a male, I often think of women in sexual terms, but this does not in any way imply that I don't respect their talents, skills, opinions, achievements, or contributions or that I wouldn't trust one to be President or a heart surgeon who holds my life in her hands. It also doesn't mean that I am not concerned about their happiness and welfare and whether they are treated fairly by our culture. Unfortunately some misguided feminists have promoted the idea that if men ever refer to women in sexual terms that it "objectifies" them, implying disrespect/sexism/misogyny. While there are certainly misogynistic and sexist men, this isn't an adequate way to identify them.

[Aangelica]

As a male, I often think of women in sexual terms, but this does not in any way imply that I don't respect their talents, skills, opinions, achievements, or contributions or that I wouldn't trust one to be President or a heart surgeon who holds my life in her hands. It also doesn't mean that I am not concerned about their happiness and welfare and whether they are treated fairly by our culture. Unfortunately some misguided feminists have promoted the idea that if men ever refer to women in sexual terms that it "objectifies" them, implying disrespect/sexism/misogyny. While there are certainly misogynistic and sexist men, this isn't an adequate way to identify them.

There's thinking of women in sexual terms (which the majority of women aren't opposed to) and then there's what the OP's doing - seeking advice from an internet message board on how to sucker some chick into letting him do her. The whole tone of his OP (and his subsequent response, I might add) just screams that he's got no real use for her other than as a notch. Nothing I've seen him post makes me think he wants anything out of her other than to hit it and quit it.

Frankly, the dude made msmith declare him disgusting (or so I inferred), which is truly and deeply impressive misogny right there.

[Guinastasia]

Watch out, Guin --he'll want to know the secret into how to enter your meatbox!



(and I agree with you re the joking around, but this isn't joking around).

*shudder*

And yeah, or even someone is serious-if you're BOTH upfront about just wanting sex, fine. But don't try to use a "trick" to get someone, or treat a friend like a piece of meat. Basically, have a little respect.

I agree with this totally. To this point however, while Grossbottom has referred to the Persian woman in terms that are sexual and politically incorrect, I have seen no evidence that he has or would treat her with disrespect or that he would do anything that he thought would hurt her. Perhaps he will offer us his thoughts on these questions.

Uh, I would say that by the very way he talks about her, he's treating her with disrespect, referring to her only as a "fine piece of ass", and how he'd like to "tap that". That's not how I'd treat someone I consider a friend. That's not just looking at someone sexually-that's treating them just as another object to use and discard.

There's thinking of women in sexual terms (which the majority of women aren't opposed to) and then there's what the OP's doing - seeking advice from an internet message board on how to sucker some chick into letting him do her.



Thanks-you said it much better than I could.

[truthpizza]

Originally Posted by Aangelica
There's thinking of women in sexual terms (which the majority of women aren't opposed to) and then there's what the OP's doing - seeking advice from an internet message board on how to sucker some chick into letting him do her. The whole tone of his OP (and his subsequent response, I might add) just screams that he's got no real use for her other than as a notch. Nothing I've seen him post makes me think he wants anything out of her other than to hit it and quit it.

I must say I'm not thrilled with his tone either, but I'm willing to wait and see whether he says he actually cares about her feelings. So far I haven't seen any indication he wants to trick her - only to get around some possibly irrational constraint she may have about dating European type whites. If he is trying to deceive her/take advantage of her, than I share your disapproval.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Yeah that's not selfish.

And that's not arrogant.

Sure thing. =)


Feel free to correct me, John Carter From Mars.

What I think he's trying to tell you is that if you see a hot woman checking out books in Borders and you don't notice a ring and you hit on her and end up having sex with her that night, it's not your fault if you find out she's married. That has NOTHING to do with you. She chose to do that. You just happened to be the object of that choice.

It takes two to tango. (I hate that saying). You didn't mess up their relationship, and to be perfectly blunt, why do you care if you do mess up their relationship? You didn't force her into it. She chose to do it. If someone sees women as objects, then I can certainly see why they'd get upset at you (the proverbial "you" from my example), because you took another guy's "property". If anything, he should be talking to her and finding out why she cheated and why the relationship went south. This is where you ride off into the sunset.

[John Carter of Mars]

I too am disgusted.
Fuckin' A, me too.


Feel free to correct me, John Carter From Mars.
Nothing to correct, you pretty much nailed it.

[TheLoadedDog]

...but saying Persians aren't white seems like splitting even more hairs than usual.
Persians are white, and as for splitting hairs, sheesh - I used to have Persian pussy, and I used to get the hairs all over my bed, so I got rid of her!

Oh hang on. Persian girls, not Persian cats?

Sorry. My mistake.

[Grey area]

Feel free to correct me, John Carter From Mars.

What I think he's trying to tell you is that if you see a hot woman checking out books in Borders and you don't notice a ring and you hit on her and end up having sex with her that night, it's not your fault if you find out she's married. That has NOTHING to do with you. She chose to do that. You just happened to be the object of that choice.
Grossbottom intends to pursue this woman with full knowledge of her engagement.

It takes two to tango. (I hate that saying). You didn't mess up their relationship, and to be perfectly blunt, why do you care if you do mess up their relationship? You didn't force her into it. She chose to do it. If someone sees women as objects, then I can certainly see why they'd get upset at you (the proverbial "you" from my example), because you took another guy's "property". If anything, he should be talking to her and finding out why she cheated and why the relationship went south. This is where you ride off into the sunset.
You know what? If it's so friggin hard for you folks to concern yourselves with interests other than your own, then good for you. Refer to post #101 to see how I feel about the matter. I'm done arguing about this and am sorely disappointed that the concepts of self-restraint and general decency is so foreign to many of you.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Grossbottom intends to pursue this woman with full knowledge of her engagement.


You know what? If it's so friggin hard for you folks to concern yourselves with interests other than your own, then good for you. Refer to post #101 to see how I feel about the matter. I'm done arguing about this and am sorely disappointed that the concepts of self-restraint and general decency is so foreign to many of you.
That's the thing. You're NOT screwing up their engagement. She (to keep with the previous scenario) was going to cheat. If she just so happened to cheat with you, it's not your fault. I certainly do understand some guilt at you being the catalyst for this breakup, but the cause? Nope.

Grossbottom is seeing signs that tell him that she's not happy with her arrangement. If she chooses to stop that arrangement with dear Grossbottom, then there. Of course, we don't know the ENTIRE story with Grossbottom and we never will because we don't see these non-verbal signals.

[Lozman]

After 3 years you are firmly in the friend zone and it is unrealistic to expect anything more than flirting and friendship from here to eternity. I base this on many experiences of girls of any culture.

I am myself dating a lovely persian lady. At first I was unsure how to proceed with her cos she is of her culture but also very modern and westernised in her style. Luckily for me there was a strong mutual attraction from the start. We kissed on our third date and after about six weeks we had the opportunity to make love and I can vouch for the passion of these lovely ladies! We see each other usually twice a week and despite this, she has not yet introduced me to her family, as she has never dated a western man before, and she is unsure how they will react.

I have found that she is not backwards in coming forward, so if your friend was interested in getting physical with you, then you would have known by now for sure. Sorry op, you have missed the boat on this one.

[Maeglin]

Sorry op, you have missed the boat on this one.

These things just write themselves.

[Larry Mudd]

مغز! (http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%BA%D8%B2)

[Lasciel]

Well played, Mudd. Well played.

*golf clap*

[Siam Sam]

Persian zombies. That would explain a lot about Iran.

[Nunzio Tavulari]

Is there something I’m not doing here, some subtle trick I don’t know for liberating that ass?

A great man once said "Liberate her country and her ass will follow".

[Acsenray]

What makes you so sure that her ethnicity has anything to do with all this?

I was going to ask that, but then I read the OP again and decided I really didn't want to know any more about what goes on in his head.

[Harvey The Heavy]

OP sounds like a Nice Guytm

[Malacandra]

Harvey sounds about 1800 days late/dollars short.

[ThelmaLou]

I can't speak for her, but if it were me, talking about me this way on a public message board would pretty much guarantee the opposite would happen.
This. If this is your real personality, I wouldn't be interested in even a short term liaison.

[AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet]

perhaps by referring to them as women instead of girls...would you call an adult male a boy?

[Acsenray]

perhaps by referring to them as women instead of girls...would you call an adult male a boy?

C'mon, that's the least offensive aspect of the OP.

[Malacandra]

perhaps by referring to them as women instead of girls...would you call an adult male a boy?

Dude's had five years to think better of it...

[hajario]

The op was written five years ago.

[LurkerInNJ]

nm

[Der Trihs]

perhaps by referring to them as women instead of girls...would you call an adult male a boy?Why not? People refer to men as boys all the time; "I'm going out with the boys for a drink", "I just saw the cutest boy on the beach", "boys and their toys". Whether addressing an adult as "girl" or "boy" is insulting or affectionate or just a cute turn of phrase depends on context.

[Stan Shmenge]

I went to an Armenian concert with my Persian/Armenian friend. In the beer line, the Armenian girls were saying things like "Wow, you like Armenian music." and "You like Armenian people?" I think a lot of them would be happy to date outside their culture. A lot of the guys in Armenian culture downpress their women, treat them as wombs and houskeeper/cooks, physically abuse them, etc.

I got the feeling that they were very open to guys from other cultures to get away from all that.

[kidchameleon]

How very...unrelated to the OP.

[Siam Sam]

I went to an Armenian concert with my Persian/Armenian friend. In the beer line, the Armenian girls were saying things like "Wow, you like Armenian music." and "You like Armenian people?" I think a lot of them would be happy to date outside their culture. A lot of the guys in Armenian culture downpress their women, treat them as wombs and houskeeper/cooks, physically abuse them, etc.

I got the feeling that they were very open to guys from other cultures to get away from all that.

How very...unrelated to the OP.

He did use the words "Persian" and "girls."

[BigT]

That's the thing. You're NOT screwing up their engagement. She (to keep with the previous scenario) was going to cheat. If she just so happened to cheat with you, it's not your fault. I certainly do understand some guilt at you being the catalyst for this breakup, but the cause? Nope.

Nope, it's still your fault, because you didn't do the bare minimum you could to stop it. I know there's the penchant to try and disclaim responsibility for things because the other person is the one the really bad thing. But fault is not a either-or thing. You are at fault. Maybe less than the woman herself, maybe not. But you with full knowledge chose to do something that would hurt another human being for your own selfish pleasure. You can't claim innocence because she made the initial decision. You went along with it.

Being the "catalyst" as you say means you are still at fault, just like a catalyst is part of the cause of any reaction it participates in. That's kinda what the word means.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

Preach it, BigT! Make Least Original User Name Ever take a long, hard look at his 2007 self.

[kidchameleon]

Preach it, BigT! Make Least Original User Name Ever take a long, hard look at his 2007 self.

I bet Big T writes in to complain about things he sees in his Blander magazines.

[pancakes3]

Actually, a catalyst only speeds up a reaction but doesn't actually change the reaction itself.

As for the brief encounter that one guy had at a beer line one time? Feigning interest is a far cry from actual interest which is a far cry from an actual date which is a far cry from getting into a relationship which is a far cry from getting serious in that relationship.

Many non-white people raised in America would like to date white people but for relationships, they do still heavily resist going outside of their race. Family, commonality, and cultural identity comes into play for better or worse.

[chela]

I thought this was gonna be about Bravo TV's latest reality portrayal -The Shahs of Sunset. THose people are giving persians a bad name! At the least the commercials for it make them look bad.

Shades of gray meets the kardashians in Beverly Hills?

[Siam Sam]

I thought this was gonna be about Bravo TV's latest reality portrayal -The Shahs of Sunset. THose people are giving persians a bad name! At the least the commercials for it make them look bad.

Shades of gray meets the kardashians in Beverly Hills?

Looks like Kim Kardashian is over in Persia's neighborhood. She just started a riot in Bahrain (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241568/Kim-Kardashian-starts-riot-Police-officers-Bahrain-tear-gas-protestors-angry-reality-TV-stars-presence-Gulf-kingdom.html).

[Acsenray]

The best thing about that story is that Kim Kardashian owns a chain called "Millions of Milkshakes." Milkshakes. Millions. Kardashian's milkshakes.

This truly is the best of all worlds.

[StJoan]

I’ve had my share of tough projects, extracted my share of Indian/Greek/Chinese girls out from under their daddys' noses...

...Is there something I’m not doing here, some subtle trick I don’t know for liberating that ass?



Zoroastrian female here, with full "persian" ethnicity and all that.

After a post like that, I wouldn't let you near the donkey in the petting zoo, much less near my arse. IMO, the lady in question has had a lucky escape.

-- St-"Creeps are not welcome"-Joan.

ETA: Damn! I just realized that I've replied to a 5-yr old OP. :smack:. I'll just quietly tiptoe out of the thread now.

[grude]

Why not? People refer to men as boys all the time; "I'm going out with the boys for a drink", "I just saw the cutest boy on the beach", "boys and their toys". Whether addressing an adult as "girl" or "boy" is insulting or affectionate or just a cute turn of phrase depends on context.

I'm almost 30 and people refer me to as a boy ALL THE TIME(strangers), so yes people do.

[Gyrate]

Maybe she's on an eleven-year engagement now?

[Ellen Cherry]

This thread is old and isn't really going anywhere. If anyone would like to start a new thread on any of the issues raised, please feel free. But I'm closing this one.