I need help identifying a bird

[Indygrrl]

I'm having trouble finding info on this gorgeous, huge bird I saw a few minutes ago. I live in Indiana and the bird was absolutely huge and black with a red head. It had a wingspan of 3-4 feet. It was perched on a bridge in a wooded area and as I drove past it flew away before I could take a picture.

It might have been a vulture, but the photos I've found online do not look like the bird I saw. I will try to go out and see if it is still around or has come back. That is the problem I have with bird-watching. I see these gorgeous birds and can't identify them.

Any ideas?

[SkipMagic]

You'll probably get better answers in GQ. I'll move this there for you.

[Dazzling White Diamonds]

I'm having trouble finding info on this gorgeous, huge bird I saw a few minutes ago. I live in Indiana and the bird was absolutely huge and black with a red head. It had a wingspan of 3-4 feet. It was perched on a bridge in a wooded area and as I drove past it flew away before I could take a picture.

It might have been a vulture, but the photos I've found online do not look like the bird I saw. I will try to go out and see if it is still around or has come back. That is the problem I have with bird-watching. I see these gorgeous birds and can't identify them.

Any ideas?
Try looking up a Pileated Woodpecker... and I will try looking up a linky for you in just a sec.

ETA: Hey, I actually have a picture I took of one that was at my birdfeeder earlier this year - I'll send it to you, if you like.

[capybara]

Was its head "reddISH" like rust, or RED like a turkey vulture?

[Squink]

Pileated Woodpecker?

[Xema]

Here's the pileated woodpecker (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Pileated_Woodpecker_dtl.html), which does have a red "topknot". But the wingspan isn't 4' - more like 2.5'. I'm not sure that qualifies as "huge".

[Dazzling White Diamonds]

Here's a good link for information on the Pileated Woodpecker (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Pileated_Woodpecker_dtl.html)

I haven't been able to think of any other birds that might fit your description. If I do, I'll give a shout out!

ETA: I see the link has been posted! :-)

[Xema]

Here's the turkey vulture (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Turkey_Vulture.html), which is definitely in the huge area (wingspan well over 5'). The head is naked and can appear reddish, though not always conspicuously so.

[Indygrrl]

Here's the turkey vulture (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Turkey_Vulture.html), which is definitely in the huge area (wingspan well over 5'). The head is naked and can appear reddish, though not always conspicuously so.

That's it. After reading that, it seems that the turkey vulture is somewhat disgusting. But this bird was just so huge and amazing that I still think it was awesome. When I saw it I actually said, "holy wow," lol. I want to go back out and see if I can get a picture. It probably is gone by now, but it's worth taking a look.

[Colibri]

That's it. After reading that, it seems that the turkey vulture is somewhat disgusting. But this bird was just so huge and amazing that I still think it was awesome. When I saw it I actually said, "holy wow," lol. I want to go back out and see if I can get a picture. It probably is gone by now, but it's worth taking a look.

Despite their culinary habits, Turkey Vultures are actually pretty cool birds. See my staff report on Why do vultures circle dead stuff? (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mvulture.html) for more info.

For a really cool bird, try the King Vulture. (http://www.fresnochaffeezoo.com/animals/kingVulture.html)

A close up. (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/47452892_0fd23a037d.jpg?v=0)

[Paul in Qatar]

How does a vulture (a dirty, nasty animal) differ from a condor (a mighty, majestic animal). I am betting a college degree or some sort of ad agency.

[AskNott]

In some parts of the US, folks call the vulture a "buzzard." Roger Tory Peterson, in his Field Guide To The Birds East of the Rockies, uses "buzzard" in reference to the buteos, a group of hawks that include the Red-tailed Hawk. I won't wrestle with either side, I'm just providing the information.

Vultures aren't very showy on the ground, but they are magnificent in flight.

[Colibri]

In some parts of the US, folks call the vulture a "buzzard." Roger Tory Peterson, in his Field Guide To The Birds East of the Rockies, uses "buzzard" in reference to the buteos, a group of hawks that include the Red-tailed Hawk. I won't wrestle with either side, I'm just providing the information.

This is a classic misnomer, which originated during the colonial era from immigrants who didn't know a raven from a writing-desk. The true "Buzzard" Buteo buteo is common in England and elsewhere in Europe. Since it, like other hawks of the genus Buteo, soars a lot, its name got applied to the Turkey Vulture, which also soars, rather than it's actual relatives like the Red-tail.

Similarly the Peregrine Falcon was called the Duck Hawk by colonists; the Merlin the Pigeon Hawk; the American Kestrel, a falcon, was called the Sparrow Hawk (whereas the true Sparrow Hawk of Europe is an accipiter related to the Sharp-shinned and Cooper's Hawk); and the Northern Harrier was called the Marsh Hawk. Most of these names have now been changed to agree with European usage. Buzzard, however, is perhaps too ingrained for Americans to see a change to Red-tailed Buzzard anytime soon.

Now don't get me started on the confusion between Elk, Moose, Red Deer, and Wapiti . . .

[Colibri]

Vultures aren't very showy on the ground, but they are magnificent in flight.

Most of the North American population of Turkey Vultures, along with Broad-winged and Swainson's Hawks (both "buzzards"), migrate through Panama en route to wintering grounds in South America. For several years we have run raptor watches here at several sites, and have recorded more than 3.1 million raptors over a six week period. Many migrate right over Panama City, and I can sometimes see tens of thousands from my appartment window.

In 2005 the migration was delayed due to the series of hurricanes that hit Central America that year. Nearly half the migration passed in just one day in November. A total of more than 600,000 birds, most of them Turkey Vultures, passed in only a few hours. It was one of the most amazing spectacles I have ever seen.

Turkey Vultures are essentially solar-powered on migration. They rely on thermal soaring, and hardly flap their wings at all. They apparently eat little or nothing during their migration, which can take a couple of months.

[Paul in Qatar]

The Andes Condor is a magnificent beast. The best examples are (or were) seen in the hat insignia of the national policemen.

[CannyDan]

Colibri notes: They apparently eat little or nothing during their migration, which can take a couple of months.

Perhaps not simply by choice though. Our caged vultures are marvelously attractive to migrating vultures, who we've always assumed operate on the principle of "vultures on the ground means food is served". On a quiet morning in fall, the trees outside my office window may hold a hundred or more turkey and black vultures, all apparently asking our non-releasable birds "So, where is breakfast, anyway?".

We once had a visitor ask if vultures defecate, and we answered in the affirmative. She said that her husband, who 'knows everything', declared that they didn't. She asked us to collect some, as proof. So I had my animal care staff fill a coffee can with vulture poop, which she carried away.

A month later she returned, laughing and bearing a financial donation. Apparently she boxed the coffee can as a Christmas present for hubby. She said that his reaction was so memorable, she had to come and reward us.

Now if I can only find a larger market for vulture poo........

[Harmonious Discord]

You can see a number of turkey vultures riding the thermals at Devils Lake. I had them hovering three to five feet from my spot on the bluff. They would slowly rise up fro, below the ledge and hang close for half a minute. I got to study them closely and didn't find them gross.

[CC]

...if the Panamanian researcher is our pseudonymous Colibri?

"In an experiment in Panama, a researcher put out chicken carcasses in the tropical forest, hiding them so they were not visible from the air." (From one of Cecil's columns)

[Colibri]

Perhaps not simply by choice though.

They would probably eat if they could, but finding enough food when you are in a flock of 50,000 is pretty tough. They mostly don't bother once they are well on their way in Central America.

...if the Panamanian researcher is our pseudonymous Colibri?

"In an experiment in Panama, a researcher put out chicken carcasses in the tropical forest, hiding them so they were not visible from the air." (From one of Cecil's columns)

Thanks, but that's not from one of Cecil's columns, it's from my own Staff Report I linked to above. The work wasn't done by me but someone else who was working at our research station:

Houston, D. C. 1986. Scavenging Efficiency of Turkey Vultures in Tropical Forest. Condor 88(3): 318-323.

[tomndebb]

There is a hamlet a few miles South of Cleveland that is moderately famous as a terminus of the turkey vulture/buzzard migration: The Buzzards of Hinckley, Ohio (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2430244) (The Beeb has one error: the "cliffs" are about 70 feet higher than the lake with a total elevation of 350 feet. There are no 350 foot cliffs in this part of the world.) (Local history site (http://www.hinckleytwp.org/news/buzzardhistory.php) and About.com's perspective with links to buzzard info (http://cleveland.about.com/od/clevelandareaparks/p/buzzards.htm).)
Far less well known, there is another buzzard roost in Newbury Township near the corners of Auburn Rd. and Pekin Rd. and there are probably others in NE Ohio, as well. I suspect that they tend to hang out in familiar territories, so the OP might look around to find their nesting area in his own neighborhood.

[Xema]

We once had a visitor ask if vultures defecate, and we answered in the affirmative. She said that her husband, who 'knows everything', declared that they didn't.
I imagine it would have been interesting to hear his theory as to why.

[Laughing Lagomorph]

I do know they will regurgitate their food when threatened (which would have to be almost unimaginably disgusting, given what they eat).

Maybe the hubby was thinking they only regurgitated and never defecated?

[jayjay]

Interesting factoid: New World vultures (including condors) aren't directly related to the raptors, as Old World vultures are. They descend from the stork/heron/ibis group.

[AskNott]

We once had a visitor ask if vultures defecate, and we answered in the affirmative. She said that her husband, who 'knows everything', declared that they didn't. She asked us to collect some, as proof. So I had my animal care staff fill a coffee can with vulture poop, which she carried away.
When I was poking around for my first post, one source (which I can't seem to find again) said that turkey vultures defecate on their own feet to cool them by evaporation.

[jayjay]

When I was poking around for my first post, one source (which I can't seem to find again) said that turkey vultures defecate on their own feet to cool them by evaporation.

From The New Canaan Nature Center (http://www.newcanaannature.org/visit/birdsofprey/turkeyvulture.php4):

Turkey Vultures also have a unique way of cooling themselves; they defecate on their legs.

[Terrifel]

When I was poking around for my first post, one source (which I can't seem to find again) said that turkey vultures defecate on their own feet to cool them by evaporation.I'm familiar with an alternate, even more bizarre explanation: they defecate on their legs for hygenic reasons. Supposedly the digestive tract of a vulture is exceptionally hostile to bacteria, which is why they are even capable of safely eating carrion contaminated by anthrax and other nasty pathogens. According to this theory, defecating on their own legs kills off any disease organisms that they pick up while feeding.

Superficially, it sounds slightly more plausible to me than the 'cooling' theory-- wouldn't freshly generated vulture droppings initially be just as warm as the bird's internal temperature, i.e., even higher than its surroundings? If anything, I'd think that such a practice would tend to cause the bird to become even hotter-- kind of like trying to combat heatstroke by bathing the victim in warm chicken soup.

I wonder whether anyone has considered the possibility that vultures just have really bad aim?

I've also heard that the larger vultures simultaneously regurgitate and defecate (on their legs, presumably) when threatened-- not only alarming predators, but also lightening themselves for a quick takeoff. I am uncertain if this is actually true, or merely a conflation of the regurgitation and leg-defecation trivia. Vulturologists, please advise.

[Colibri]

Superficially, it sounds slightly more plausible to me than the 'cooling' theory-- wouldn't freshly generated vulture droppings initially be just as warm as the bird's internal temperature, i.e., even higher than its surroundings? If anything, I'd think that such a practice would tend to cause the bird to become even hotter-- kind of like trying to combat heatstroke by bathing the victim in warm chicken soup.

Actually a number of birds besides vultures do this, including storks. And it is not just defecation, it is also urination. Bird urine is composed mainly of uric acid and is semisolid. It's the white stuff you see in bird droppings. Since birds only have one orifice for voiding waste, the cloaca, the distinction between urination and defecation is a bit moot.

The practice of voiding waste on the legs is almost certainly for thermoregulation. Heat is lost when the moisture in the waste evaporates, just the same as when we sweat. (Of course sweat is initially at body temperature too.) The legs of course being bare of feathers and just below the cloaca are a convenient place to use for such evaporative cooling.

Do you happen to have a cite for the idea that vultures defecate on their legs for hygenic reasons? I'm not challenging you, I just have not heard this before and I am interested in seeing more on it.

[Terrifel]

Do you happen to have a cite for the idea that vultures defecate on their legs for hygenic reasons? I'm not challenging you, I just have not heard this before and I am interested in seeing more on it.No cite, it's just some random morsel of vulture-related lore that I probably overheard at a dinner party somewhere. It sounded plausible at the time, but if the thermoregulation effect is well-documented in other birds, then I'm sure it's the correct explanation for vultures as well.

[picunurse]

May I ask a related vulture question? When driving (an MR2) in a fairly remote area in west Texas, My car was "attacked" by a large black bird that had been eating carrion on the side of the road. The wing span was wider than my car wind shield.
The bird flew straight at the car and sort of draped itself over the windshield.
I'm asuming it was some sort of vulture, but what sort?

[Laughing Lagomorph]

Depending on exactly where you were in West Texas, and when, it could have been a black vulture (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Black_Vulture_dtl.html#map) or the aforementioned turkey vulture. The heads of immature turkey vultures are grey, like those of black vultures.

Both birds have difficulty taking off from the ground quickly, is it possible the bird was just trying to get out of the way of your car?

[Xema]

The BV is not quite as big as the TV, and has a much shorter tail (not that this would have been especially apparent with the bird spread across a windshield).

I agree that it's likely the "attack" was an accident.

[CannyDan]

I've been gone for a week-- surprised this thread is still active!

Yes, our captive vultures (both black and turkey) void onto their legs in very hot weather. As Colibri notes, this appears to function as an evaporative cooling mechanism.

As for why "hubby" believed that vultures do not defecate, I am virtually clueless as wife unit did not explain. Perhaps he observed the area under a roost to be devoid of excrement. As Colibri also offers, vultures rarely have opportunity to feed on migration, thereby greatly reducing their need to eliminate waste. And even in non-migratory situations, vultures are usually by necessity 'gorge or starve' feeders. When food is available, like an animal carcass, they gorge themselves (or attempt to). But frequently, there is simply no food available. During such times, defecation would also be, perforce, reduced.

Related to vomiting as a defense, indeed they do. Anyone who has ever handled a vulture will testify to that, and to the especially noxious aroma of vulture vomit. But a related factoid I thought was apocryphal until I observed it myself.

Another carrion eater found near us is the Audubon's (or Crested) Caracara (Polyborus plancus). (Caracaras are apparently highly modified falcon relatives-- they are not obligate carrion feeders, preying also on small ground living animals including insects and lizards, but opportunistically eating carrion as well.) The tale is that Caracaras will pester vultures to obtain food.

We have on more than one occasion observed a Caracara attempting to feed alongside vultures on a carcass. Rebuffed by the flock of larger birds, the Caracara approached a vulture that had already eaten its fill and was apparently too over-burdened by payload to take flight. The Caracara jumped on the vulture's back, plucked at its feathers, fluttered around its head, and generally made a nuisance of himself for more than 10 minutes. At that point the vulture regurgitated a huge quantity of its meal and flew away. The Caracara proceeded to devour a hot lunch.

[picunurse]

Depending on exactly where you were in West Texas, and when, it could have been a black vulture (http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Black_Vulture_dtl.html#map) or the aforementioned turkey vulture. The heads of immature turkey vultures are grey, like those of black vultures.

Both birds have difficulty taking off from the ground quickly, is it possible the bird was just trying to get out of the way of your car?
Actually, looking at the map, it was really central TX, west of Austin, maybe between Johnson City and Fredricksburg. The birds were off the roadway, but you're probably right, in that they were just trying to get away. Scared me, though.
They were huge birds and if memory serves, all black. I remember noting that the ends of the wings were beyond my mirrors and the windshield was completely covered.
I had to stop to avoid running off the road. By the time I came to a full stop the bird was gone.

[jayjay]

At that point the vulture regurgitated a huge quantity of its meal and flew away. The Caracara proceeded to devour a hot lunch.

Sometimes Mother Nature is awe-inspiring. Sometimes she's deadly. But most of the time, she's just freakin' gross...