A Rose By Any Other Name -- unacknowledged TV/movie adaptations

[Evil Captor]

I would say the best TV or movie Nancy Drew is Veronica Mars, not any of the movie and TV shows that had an actual Nancy Drew character.

I would say the best Gor adapation is Deathstalker, not either of the two actual Gor movies (Gor and Outlaw of Gor). Second best adaptation: Amazon Queen.

I would say that the best movie based on William Gibson's works is "Strange Days," not "Johnny Mnemonic" or "New Rose Hotel." (The X-Files ep "Kill Switch" is a topnotch Gibson, but it's also very X-Files).

None of the works I've cited were in any way official versions of the works they happen to be the best examples of, nor am I accusing them of plagiarism. What I think DID happen was that the writer/director/producer ... whoever the creative driver behind the film was ... "got" the original work with an understanding that none of the actual adaptors did, or as in the case of "Johnny Mnemonic" managed to translate their understanding to the screen in a way that the original author didn't.

Because the work is the result of superior understanding, it tends to outshine "official" versions.

I'm sure there are other such works, where a movie or TV show proclaims itself to be a brilliant adapation of a book, short story, or other movie/TV series, even though it is clearly not a plagiarized version of the original. Any nominees? Or care to dispute my nominees?

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

John Carpenter's brilliantly creepy movie In the Mouth of Madness is an excellent H.P. Lovecraft tribute that outshines any of the other poor attempts to directly adapt Lovecraft's works to film. (I have not seen the recent silent version of The Call of Cthulhu, though.)

[xnylder]

(I have not seen the recent silent version of The Call of Cthulhu, though.)

You really, really should. It's excellent and subtle.

As for another unacknowledged but blatantly obvious adaptation, the anime series Record of Lodoss War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodoss) is based heavily on Dungeons & Dragons. Of course, Gary Gygax had Tolkien's works in mind when he created D&D, so that makes it a second-generation adaptation...

[Peter Morris]

There is a mystery novel, Brat Farrar by Josephine Tey. Pretty good.

The plot goes like this: A confidence trickster meets a young man, nicknamed "Brat" Farrar . Brat closely resembles an heir to a fortune who dissappeared without trace several years ago. Conman persuades Brat to pose as the heir in order to inherit the fortune. He meets with initial doubts from the family, especially the heirs younger twin brother. But he eventually manages to persude most of them. As Brat gets to know the family better, he becomes more uncomfortable about conning them. Meanwhile he's finding out what happened to the real heir.

So, at the end, the family realise he's not the heir, but they know that the family's blacksheep cousin got a girl pregnant years ago, she ran away. They speculate that he is most likely the product of that union.


Turn the characters of that book into monsters, and you have almost exactly the plot of the first Addams Family film. It wasn't acknowledged, but the resemblance is too close to be coincidence. It's certainly a rip-off.

[Quercus]

I suppose Apocalypse Now was too openly The Heart of Darkness to qualify for the OP.

[Bridget Burke]

thirtysomething was never a favorite. (In fact, I'd forgotten the series name--so I Googled "yuppie tv show.")

But I happened to tune in to one of their Christmas shows. And realized the episode was inspired by "The Dead" (James Joyce.)

[Rhiannon8404]

Turn the characters of that book into monsters, and you have almost exactly the plot of the first Addams Family film. It wasn't acknowledged, but the resemblance is too close to be coincidence. It's certainly a rip-off.

Eek! You are so right! I love the book (and BBC movie) Brat Farrar. I totally never noticed the resemblance until right now when you pointed it out.

[AtomicDog]

I think that Aliens was a better "Starship Troopers" than Starship Troopers.

[Evil Captor]

John Carpenter's brilliantly creepy movie In the Mouth of Madness is an excellent H.P. Lovecraft tribute that outshines any of the other poor attempts to directly adapt Lovecraft's works to film. (I have not seen the recent silent version of The Call of Cthulhu, though.)

I will have to check that out. I'm a big fan of Lovecraft, when he's done right, which as you say is not often, in the official versions. I know a lot of other films have elements that are definitely borrowed from the Cthulhu Mythos, the Hellboy comics for example. Wouldn't be surprised if there were other examples of Lovecraft adaptations out there.

[Evil Captor]

You really, really should. It's excellent and subtle.

As for another unacknowledged but blatantly obvious adaptation, the anime series Record of Lodoss War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodoss) is based heavily on Dungeons & Dragons. Of course, Gary Gygax had Tolkien's works in mind when he created D&D, so that makes it a second-generation adaptation...

I'm sure there are a LOT of Tolkein borrowers out there, especially in the gaming world. "World of Warcraft" to cite another example. Neither one is even close to plagiarism, but clearly the idea of groups of warriors allied with the "light" (the Alliance) vs. groups of warriors allied with the dark (the Horde) with both groups including mythical or supernatural creatures, is getting to be a widespread meme.

Now that I think about it, there's a hentai called "The Words Worth Saga" that has the same set up -- forces of light and forces of dark in opposition, both with mythical creatures/supernatural powers. The major difference between LOTR and WOW and Wordworth is that in LOTR the forces of darkness are all evil all the time and the forces of light are all good, all the time. In WOW and Wordsworth, there are good and bad folk on both sides.

[Hodge]

Up until Casino Royale, I thought The Incredibles was the best James Bond movie in 3 decades.

Up until The Incredibles, I thought The Bourne Identity was the best James Bond movie in 3 decades.

[Don Draper]

I think that Aliens was a better "Starship Troopers" than Starship Troopers.


Alien (the first movie) was a very obvious copy of the Thing from Another World (http://imdb.com/title/tt0044121/).

The writers of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (http://imdb.com/title/tt0096928/) quite obviously had seen "Doctor Who" (and his time-travelling 'phonebooth').

[tanstaafl]

Alien (the first movie) was a very obvious copy of the Thing from Another World (http://imdb.com/title/tt0044121/).
And an even more obvious copy of Voyage of the Space Beagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voyage_of_the_Space_Beagle) (enough so that the author sued 20th Century Fox over the movie).

[MaxTheVool]

Congo my Michael Crichton (later made into a movie), has a plot that is errily reminiscent of award-winning children's book The Twenty One Balloons by William Pene DuBois.

[Evil Captor]

I suppose Apocalypse Now was too openly The Heart of Darkness to qualify for the OP.

Well, in the sense that Coppola did acknowledge the story's debt to "Heart of Darkness." Prolly had something to do with the fact that "Heart of Darkness" is out of copyright.

[Evil Captor]

And an even more obvious copy of Voyage of the Space Beagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Voyage_of_the_Space_Beagle) (enough so that the author sued 20th Century Fox over the movie).

I read "Voyage of the Space Beagle" years ago but it's been many years and I don't remember the Ixtl story at all. I suppose the Alien could be a carbon copy of the Ixtl. But there is a big difference between the two stories from the git-go: the Space Beagle is an exploration ship full of scientists, soldiers and explorer types, whereas the Nostromo was a commercial ore vessel whose crew was the interstellar equivalent of working stiffs. Changed the whole dynamic of the story. I'm a big fan of A.E. van Vogt, but I have my doubts about plariarism.

[Johnny Hildo]

What's that TV show where a plane crashes in the middle of nowhere and the survivors are faced with a series of difficult and unique challenges?

Oh yeah, Peter Benchley's Amazon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205737/) (1999).

[Leaper]

Yeah, but that's such a general description that I can't see a connection. I mean, is every political intrigue story a ripoff of Macbeth, just because it involves a power struggle?

[tanstaafl]

What's that TV show where a plane crashes in the middle of nowhere and the survivors are faced with a series of difficult and unique challenges?

Oh yeah, Peter Benchley's Amazon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205737/) (1999).
Well, there's also Lord of the Flies for that matter. There was also a TV movie from the 70s or early 80s the title of which I can't find now about a jetliner that crashes on an island somewhere and they are forced to fend for themselves when rescue does not arrive.

[Peter Morris]

The writers of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (http://imdb.com/title/tt0096928/) quite obviously had seen "Doctor Who" (and his time-travelling 'phonebooth').

Well, yes. But that's a parody, perhaps homage. Not the same thing as a rip-off.

[tanstaafl]

Ah, found it. Took a bit of Googling, but...

Lost Flight (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064601/) (From 1969, btw)
They survived by chance......They lived by fear

Bridges is the captain of a downed airliner who must help his crew and passengers survive on a deserted jungle island in the midst of a power struggle - an adult version of "Lord of the Flies."

I also found this one, which I thought was interesting too. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Danger Island (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104049/) (1992)
From the past came an end to the future.

Mixed assortment of people survive the crash of an airliner at sea; cast upon a shore of mysterious island they discover dangerous creatures, exploding bananas, mutations and a biological weapons research facility.

[Cat Fight]

Someone suggested to me that Pirates of the Caribbean is an adaptation of the computer game series Monkey Island. I don't really see it, though (and the game is so much better/funnier/shorter)

[Evil Captor]

Yeah, but that's such a general description that I can't see a connection. I mean, is every political intrigue story a ripoff of Macbeth, just because it involves a power struggle?

Exactly. I mean, the first story about people on board an aircraft crash-landing on a mysterious island filled with strange things and struggling to survive is of course, Jules Verne's "Mysterious Island." I don't think this gives Verne the rights to any story involving crash-landing on a desert island.

[Johnny Hildo]

Well, there's also Lord of the Flies for that matter. There was also a TV movie from the 70s or early 80s the title of which I can't find now about a jetliner that crashes on an island somewhere and they are forced to fend for themselves when rescue does not arrive.

Or for that matter, there's also 1939's Five Came Back (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031314/) which is essentially the same story.

[Merijeek]

I'm sure there are a LOT of Tolkein borrowers out there, especially in the gaming world. "World of Warcraft" to cite another example. Neither one is even close to plagiarism, but clearly the idea of groups of warriors allied with the "light" (the Alliance) vs. groups of warriors allied with the dark (the Horde) with both groups including mythical or supernatural creatures, is getting to be a widespread meme.

Umm...like that "Bible" thing? I wonder if Tolkein's estate can sue.

-Joe

[AtomicDog]

Well, there's also Lord of the Flies for that matter. There was also a TV movie from the 70s or early 80s the title of which I can't find now about a jetliner that crashes on an island somewhere and they are forced to fend for themselves when rescue does not arrive.


Same theme with a '60s Love Generation twist:

The New People (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_People)


Tribute site (http://www.tvobscurities.com/articles/new_people.php)

[Annie-Xmas]

From "Forbidden Hollywood's" Gump, the Magic Movie:

Everyone loves Forrest, but why does no one care
That this same plot was used before in a film called "Being There"?

[Mahaloth]

Someone suggested to me that Pirates of the Caribbean is an adaptation of the computer game series Monkey Island. I don't really see it, though (and the game is so much better/funnier/shorter)

It's more the setting and a few characters, like Barbossa(LeChuck).

It's not a adaptation, but Monkey Island did inspire parts of Pirates.

[msmith537]

Well, there's also Lord of the Flies for that matter.

and
Flight of the Phoenix (both version)
Lost Horizon



Someone suggested to me that Pirates of the Caribbean is an adaptation of the computer game series Monkey Island. I don't really see it, though (and the game is so much better/funnier/shorter)


Monkey Island came out in 1990. The Disney ride has been around since the 60s. For the most part, much of the pirate mythology seen in PotC has more or less been around as long as I can remember.



I'm supprised no one mentioned Independence Day is essentially a remake of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, with a computer virus instead of an actual virus.

[CalMeacham]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The New and Improved Superman
Alien (the first movie) was a very obvious copy of the Thing from Another World.


And an even more obvious copy of Voyage of the Space Beagle (enough so that the author sued 20th Century Fox over the movie).


We've been over this many a time on the SDMB. I think TNaIS is a bit confused -- Alien doesn't rip off The Thing -- it rips off Jerome Bixby's 1950s cheapie It!The Terror from Beyond Space. In a MAJOR way.

Bixby can't have been unaware of E.E. vam Vogt's dshort story "Black Destroyer", the first story I know of that features an alien onster loose aboard a starship, but his story is different enough that it's no more than the basic situation. Whereas Alien really follows the same plot as It!

(Van Vogt later wrote another short story, "Discord in Scarlet", that featured another alien monster loose aboard a starship, that planted eggs in the bodies of crewmen. Both Black Destroyer and Discord in Crimson were later pasted together with other short stories -- a practice Van Vogt called a "fix-up" -- to make the aforementioned novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle.)


It! didn't feature eggs being planted by the alien in crewmembers, but I suspect that Dan O'Bannon lifted the idea from another 1950s cheapie, Night of the Blood Beast. I know it could've been one of the (many) other screenwriters for Alien, and that they could've gotten the idea from Van Vogt, but I get the strong impression that O'Bannon was the guiding force, and that he was more influenced by movies than literature.

[Wendell Wagner]

I think that the most Philip K. Dick-like movie ever made is _They Live_, which is not based on any of Dick's works.

[MrDibble]

I'd have said Eternal Sunshine... was the best non-Dick Dick.

[Justin_Bailey]

I'm supprised no one mentioned Independence Day is essentially a remake of H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds, with a computer virus instead of an actual virus.

The filmmakers have actually acknowledged that and admitted that they realize how unrealisitic the virus scene is, but it was required for the War of the Worlds tone.

[Evil Captor]

Umm...like that "Bible" thing? I wonder if Tolkein's estate can sue.

-Joe

Tolkein got his stuff from the Bible, which is public domain, so he's safe, dude. (Good thing the Bible IS public domain because the authorship thing is a real can o' worms.)

[Evil Captor]

Someone suggested to me that Pirates of the Caribbean is an adaptation of the computer game series Monkey Island. I don't really see it, though (and the game is so much better/funnier/shorter)

No, what PotC is, is an adaptation of is Tim Powers' novel "On Stranger Tides." Consider:

Both stories have a protagonist whose life is altered powerfully by the absence of their father. In PotC, the protagonist believes his father was murdered by pirates and has become a blacksmith specializing in swords with a fixation on killing pirates. In Stranger Tides, the protagonist is a puppeteer who travels to the Caribbean to collect on an inheritance after his puppeteer father is robbed and murdered.

In both stories, the female love interest is a beautiful woman with a weak father who does not protect her.

Each female love interest unknowingly carries powerful magic (in PotC, she has one of the coins from Davy Jones' locker, in Stranger Tides, she's been raised for years on a special diet so she can serve as a guide to The Fountain of Youth).

In each story, the plot is driven by the actions of the bad guy, who is a pirate seeking to remove magical afflictions. In PotC it's the captain and crew of the Black Pearl, seeking to remove the curse of Davy Jones' locker. In Stranger Tides it's Blackbeard seeking to remove an affliction of spirits gained by an earlier attempt on the Fountain of Youth.

In each story, magic of the voodoo variety is central to the plot, and is casually used and referenced by pirates.

PotC is not a plagiarism of Stranger Tides, but I'm pretty sure that whoever wrote the script read "Stranger Tides" quite carefully and took notes.

[Evil Captor]

I'd have said Eternal Sunshine... was the best non-Dick Dick.

I agree with Eternal Sunshine as the best non-Dick Dick. They Live definitely has Dickish influences, but it's too fun and upbeat to really be Dick.

[Wendell Wagner]

I wrote:

> I think that the most Philip K. Dick-like movie ever made is _They Live_, which is
> not based on any of Dick's works.

MrDibble wrote:

> I'd have said Eternal Sunshine... was the best non-Dick Dick.

Note that these are two different claims. I said that the movie which was *most Dick-like* was _They Live_ (which was not adapted from a Dick work). MrDibble said that the *best* Dick-like film not adapted from a Dick work was _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_.

[astorian]

Well, I think years after the fact, George Romero admitted that the original "Night of the Living Dead" was largely inspired by Richard Matheson's "I Am Legend." Romero changed just enough things around to avoid possible lawsuits.

Not that Romero had enough money at the time to make a lawsuit worthwhile, from Matheson's standpoint.

[Wendell Wagner]

Evil Captor writes:

> They Live definitely has Dickish influences, but it's too fun and upbeat to really
> be Dick.

Hmm. I consider _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ to be more upbeat than _They Live_. _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ ends with the couple deciding that, even though their relationship didn't work the last time, maybe this time they can make it work. _They Live_ ends with the hero dying, although he knows that his actions have helped turn the tide against the enemy. But for an example of a truly non-Dick-like ending, even though it's from a great movie, there's _Blade Runner_, where the hero accomplishes his mission and rides off into the sunset with his new girlfriend, who's not doomed to die in a few years.

[Miller]

John Carpenter's brilliantly creepy movie In the Mouth of Madness is an excellent H.P. Lovecraft tribute that outshines any of the other poor attempts to directly adapt Lovecraft's works to film. (I have not seen the recent silent version of The Call of Cthulhu, though.)

I laways thought that movie was a bit crap. For my money, the movie that best "got" what Lovecraft was all about is Quatermass and the Pit. In that movie:

Earth was the colony of a race of extra-terrestrial grasshoppers, who engineered humans as telepathically controlled slave stock, before disappearing mysteriously some 30 million years ago. In that movie, humans aren't blessed, or special, or unique. We're just industrial waste, a meaningless blip on the vast, unending timeline of a cold, uncaring universe. And that, more than tentacle monsters or make-you-go-crazy books, is what Lovecraft was all about.

[RealityChuck]

There are quite a few TV shows that are unacknowledged ripoff of successful movies.

The Monkees --> A Hard Day's Night and Help!
Tales of the Gold Monkey --> Raiders of the Lost Ark.
The Man From U.N.C.L.E --> Goldfinger and other James Bond films.

And, of course American Dad --> Family Guy.

[Merijeek]

No, what PotC is, is an adaptation of is Tim Powers' novel "On Stranger Tides." Consider:

Both stories have a protagonist whose life is altered powerfully by the absence of their father. In PotC, the protagonist believes his father was murdered by pirates and has become a blacksmith specializing in swords with a fixation on killing pirates. In Stranger Tides, the protagonist is a puppeteer who travels to the Caribbean to collect on an inheritance after his puppeteer father is robbed and murdered.

In both stories, the female love interest is a beautiful woman with a weak father who does not protect her.

Each female love interest unknowingly carries powerful magic (in PotC, she has one of the coins from Davy Jones' locker, in Stranger Tides, she's been raised for years on a special diet so she can serve as a guide to The Fountain of Youth).

In each story, the plot is driven by the actions of the bad guy, who is a pirate seeking to remove magical afflictions. In PotC it's the captain and crew of the Black Pearl, seeking to remove the curse of Davy Jones' locker. In Stranger Tides it's Blackbeard seeking to remove an affliction of spirits gained by an earlier attempt on the Fountain of Youth.

In each story, magic of the voodoo variety is central to the plot, and is casually used and referenced by pirates.

PotC is not a plagiarism of Stranger Tides, but I'm pretty sure that whoever wrote the script read "Stranger Tides" quite carefully and took notes.\

:rolleyes:

And now you've described "Star Wars".

-Joe

[Evil Captor]

I laways thought that movie was a bit crap. For my money, the movie that best "got" what Lovecraft was all about is Quatermass and the Pit. In that movie:

Earth was the colony of a race of extra-terrestrial grasshoppers, who engineered humans as telepathically controlled slave stock, before disappearing mysteriously some 30 million years ago. In that movie, humans aren't blessed, or special, or unique. We're just industrial waste, a meaningless blip on the vast, unending timeline of a cold, uncaring universe. And that, more than tentacle monsters or make-you-go-crazy books, is what Lovecraft was all about.

Funny you should mention "Quatermass and the Pit," since John Carpenter's "Ghosts of Mars" is clearly an unacknowledged reworking of that movie. And it's much better than any other Quatermass movies except the "Pit" movie, which one of the very few movies to really capture eerie horror, rather than simple grossness, violence, fear, etc.

[Evil Captor]

\

:rolleyes:

And now you've described "Star Wars".

-Joe

Sorry, no sale. The only pirate in Star Wars is Hans Solo who's a good guy. The evil protagonist in Star Wars doesn't have any magical afflictions unless you count having gone over to the dark side of the Force as an affliction, and the Sith Lord isn't seeking a cure for being on the dark side. (Neither is Vader). And Princess Leia's father is evil, but he's not weak by any measure.

Finally, the Force isn't voodoo.

But you do have a point about the other stuff.