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Kat
08-31-2007, 09:23 AM
Oh no! Almost to end of the page!

Don't turn the page! There's a monster at the end of this thread!

You turned the page!

Blaster Master
08-31-2007, 01:01 PM
Okie dokie everyone. Dawn coming up.

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 01:18 PM
Okie dokie everyone. Dawn coming up.
about damn time!

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 01:21 PM
Cookies, I noticed you haven't signed up for the Firefly game yet, you still in?

FlyingCowOfDoom
08-31-2007, 01:24 PM
Okie dokie everyone. Dawn coming up.Which, of course, means 3 hours from now.

:p :D :cool:

--FCOD

Blaster Master
08-31-2007, 01:26 PM
BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! The town awoke in the early morning to the sound a series of loud explosions. The citizens ran from their homes in earnest to see a home far at the end of the row in flames. In a panicked state, they scrabbled to gather buckets and pails full of water to put out the blaze, but just as quickly as the fire had errupted... it died down.

Strangely, no one could quite identify exactly whose home it was. The door was always bolted shut, and the shades always drawn through which tiny cracks of candle light seeped Night after Night for so many years. At last, through morbid curiousity, they could finally take a look inside and see what this man had been up to.

The door, burned through, was simple to kick in revealing a hoard of which even even the wealthiest townsmen were envious: gold jewelry, gold tableware, golden furniture. It seemed virtually every belonging in the home was made of this precious metal. No wonder the fire had burned out so quickly.

But in the corner laid the horribly burned home owner. They flipped over the corpse to find it wasn't a man, as they had suspected, but a woman. She bore no markings of violence; instead, it seemed her death had come from an explosive combination of chemicals. Blast! No one else knew enough about chemistry to figure out exactly what it was, except for a pile of... lard? At least the farmers could recognize that.

Hockey Monkey, the Alchemist, has been blown up.

----------------------------------------

The Day will end at 1:30 PM EDT on Monday.

Blaster Master
08-31-2007, 01:27 PM
Which, of course, means 3 hours from now.

:p :D :cool:

--FCOD
HEY! I was quick that time!

Blaster Master
08-31-2007, 01:29 PM
Alive
2 USCDiver
7 NAF1138
12 Kyrie Eleison
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
27 MHaye

Dead
11 Mtgman - Non-Believer - Day One
4 zuma [Ver. 1] - Citizen - Night One
1 Kat - Cultist - Day Two
6 storyteller0910 - Monk - Night Two
15 DiggitCamara [Ver. 1] - Crusader - Night Two
20 Scuba_Ben - Citizen - Day Three
13 Hal Briston - Oracle - Night Three
29 MadTheSwine - Citizen - Day Four
9 SnakesCatLady - Citizen - Night Four
30 Captain Klutz - Non-Believer - Day Five
26 HazelNutCoffee - Citizen - Night Five
28 fluiddruid - Citizen - Day Six
18 amrussell - Psychopath - Day Seven
16 Fretful Porpentine - Priest - Night Seven
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] - Citizen - Day Eight
22 Zeriel - Monk - Night Eight
3 Idle Thoughts - Cultist - Day Nine
8 sachetorte - Monk - Day Nine
23 zuma [Ver. 2] - Avatar - Day Ten
10 CatinaSuit - Disciple - Night Ten
14 Pleonast - Martyr - Mid-Day Eleven
17 PygmyRugger - Cultist - Day Eleven
5 Hockey Monkey - Alchemist - Night Eleven

Substitutions
Kyrie Eleison (Repl. Clockwork Jackal )
Nava (Repl. Captain Carrot )
Kat (Repl. ArizonaTeach )
DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] (Repl. Autolycus )
Zuma [Ver. 2] (Repl. MonkeyMensch )
amrussell (Repl. Pasta )
Pygmy Rugger (Repl. Nava )
CatinaSuit (Repl. Malacandra )

MHaye
08-31-2007, 01:40 PM
HEY! I was quick that time!Quicker.

I came in here prepared to unlimber some righteous smiting to whoever triggered that notification e-mail. So of course it was the post I've been reloading the thread wanting to see...

I'm a little surprised actually. I expected not to wake up. Having done so, I'm afraid to report that once again I got no reading.

Since the delayed-action implementation of Sekham's Revenge. I had the same amount of information on three players - Kyrie Eleison, Queueing and USCDiver. Thus I considered the case for investigating each one of them.

I settled on Queueing because the failure on Night 8 irked me a little bit, and I wanted to get a handle on him.

And for the second time, got nothing.

(Where's that headbanging smiley when you need it?)

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
08-31-2007, 01:53 PM
Cookies, I noticed you haven't signed up for the Firefly game yet, you still in?

I knew there was something I forgot to do yesterday. Signing up now...

So are we dunking NAF? Is FCOD off the hook? Who the *@#% is the damn recruit, if there has been one?

*grumble*

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
08-31-2007, 01:55 PM
:smack: Hockey's demise does seem to indicate that they have indeed recruited. Otherwise, why kill off a recruitable?

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 02:04 PM
So wait, you are all convinced that I am scum just because a known scum said so?

I have been framed!

FRAMED!

MHaye
08-31-2007, 02:15 PM
:smack: Hockey's demise does seem to indicate that they have indeed recruited. Otherwise, why kill off a recruitable?If the cult has recruited we can be sure he is one of six names; only you are immune from recruitment now. Also, I can't reveal the recruit by investigation. The result of an investigation does not change if the player is recruited, and I do not learn that the player has been recruited. The death of HockeyMonkey is a strong pointer that suggests the recruitment didn't happen in Night 6, as HM was by far and away the most likely subject for recruitment that Night.

I still see no reason to suppose we started with less than 6 cultists, so if the recruitment has been used, we're now four Town to three Cult, one of whom is masquerading as a Believer (that would be the Prophet). If we did start with less, well and good, but we should play as if we are at Lynch or Lose.

I'm going to start with some backreading tonight before deciding whether to vote for NAF or not.

On preview, I believe NAF may have been infested with the Spirit of IT - or maybe zuma2.

FlyingCowOfDoom
08-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Here's where we stand:

There are 2 or 3 Cultists left. If there are 3 Cultists, we must kill a Cultist today, or we lose.

The Prophet and possibly one Cultist (natural or recruit) is in this group:
USCDiver - ??
Kyrie Eleison - ??
Queuing - ??
FlyingCowOfDoom - Citizen :p or Prophet

NAF1138 - Cultist

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - Monk
MHaye - Apprentice (possibly a recruit but highly unlikely IMO)

I think we have to take the sure thing and kill NAF toDay.

--FCOD

Hockey Monkey
08-31-2007, 02:34 PM
Hey! HEY! HEEEEY! Get away from my gold! It's mine! Stop it I say...what? I'm dead? That's disturbing. Still, I'm not leaving anyone my gold.


:::Wanders off to the Forbidden Thread in search of nachos and insight:::

Good Luck to the remainder of you!

Queuing
08-31-2007, 03:13 PM
I will be honest. I don't know what to do today. However I am also leaning towards the sure thing, however what I would like to do is lean towards the sure thing and then kill him at the last possible moment to allow all of us to walk away from this game for the labour day weekend.

:)

Kyrie Eleison
08-31-2007, 03:16 PM
If the cult has recruited we can be sure he is one of six names; only you are immune from recruitment now. Also, I can't reveal the recruit by investigation. The result of an investigation does not change if the player is recruited, and I do not learn that the player has been recruited.
Which may well explain why you unexpectedly woke up. NAF1138, according to you, is an unbeliever, and so not the Prophet. If it's just NAF, the Prophet and the recruit left, your investigations may not threaten the cult any longer. The best outcome would be that NAF turns out to be a recruited non-believer, but that seems unlikely.
The death of HockeyMonkey is a strong pointer that suggests the recruitment didn't happen in Night 6, as HM was by far and away the most likely subject for recruitment that Night.
I agree with you that Hockey Monkey was the most obvious choice for a recruit on night six. If the cult were to have recruited that night, would they really have picked her, the most obvious choice? WIFOM, there, I know, but there was one other recruitable person who had claimed by night 6: Queuing (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8818446&postcount=2237). Perhaps the cult did believe his claim.

I have no idea why the cult might have recruited that night, though. Here is the final vote tally (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8846372&postcount=2597) from day 6: It doesn't seem that any of those in our current pool of candidates for Prophet were in much danger -- I am the only one who even appears on the tally, and with only one of nineteen votes.

The only other no-kill night was night nine. However, our disciple seemed pretty convinced that there was no recruit that night:

I think that we DID NOT HAVE a convert last night and for good reasons. I don't want the town getting sidetracked on a witch hunt which is unlikely to have happened.

I think she used her protect-two-people deal that night, and that this is an expression of her enhanced confidence that her protection was effective that night. However, that doesn't mean that the cult didn't elect to recruit someone other than the two she chose to protect, though.


If we did start with less, well and good, but we should play as if we are at Lynch or Lose.

Agreed. Vote NAF1138

I'm going to start with some backreading tonight before deciding whether to vote for NAF or not.
This I don't understand. Pygmy's elided and restored message implicated NAF1138 strongly. Are you thinking that the entire incident might have been staged?

Kyrie Eleison
08-31-2007, 03:18 PM
I will be honest. I don't know what to do today. However I am also leaning towards the sure thing, however what I would like to do is lean towards the sure thing and then kill him at the last possible moment to allow all of us to walk away from this game for the labour day weekend.

:)
Good plan. :)

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 03:28 PM
So what you all seem to be saying is that now is probably a good time for me to

vote: top dog?

Kyrie Eleison
08-31-2007, 03:41 PM
Bah, sorry CatinaSuit, I know you're male. EBWOP: "she" = "he".

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 03:45 PM
So I am thinking of not poking you all with sticks for the rest of the Day, it's my birthday and life is too short.

But I do plan on talking about non game related subjects.

We have 10 slots left in the sign up for Firefly Mafia on Idle's board.

Could someone post a link in the forbidden thread for me?

http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=asylumlane&action=display&thread=1188491178

Thanks much.

MHaye
08-31-2007, 04:15 PM
Which may well explain why you unexpectedly woke up. NAF1138, according to you, is an unbeliever, and so not the Prophet. If it's just NAF, the Prophet and the recruit left, your investigations may not threaten the cult any longer. The best outcome would be that NAF turns out to be a recruited non-believer, but that seems unlikely.Just about the only help I can be now is to split the uninvestigated players into Believer / Nonbeliever groups, so we'd know (for example) what set of players the Prophet is in.

I agree with you that Hockey Monkey was the most obvious choice for a recruit on night six. If the cult were to have recruited that night, would they really have picked her, the most obvious choice? WIFOM, there, I know, but there was one other recruitable person who had claimed by night 6: Queuing (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8818446&postcount=2237). Perhaps the cult did believe his claim.The Cult certainly know whether Queueing was/is on their side or not. A claim of vanilla Citizen isn't any particular claim at all really. Queueing is still quite high on my suspect list.

I have no idea why the cult might have recruited that night, though. Here is the final vote tally (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8846372&postcount=2597) from day 6: It doesn't seem that any of those in our current pool of candidates for Prophet were in much danger -- I am the only one who even appears on the tally, and with only one of nineteen votes.Very true. However, we now know that the most active player in promoting the theory that the Cult recruited because we came too close to the Prophet was a Cultist.

The only other no-kill night was night nine. However, our disciple seemed pretty convinced that there was no recruit that night:


I think he used his protect-two-people deal that night, and that this is an expression of her enhanced confidence that her protection was effective that night. However, that doesn't mean that the cult didn't elect to recruit someone other than the two she chose to protect, though.1By Night 9 the nonconvertible players had been flushed out. There is no way that CatinaSuit can be sure that the player(s) he protected were the Cult's target. Consequently I'm not convinced we can afford to assume that the Cult's action Night 9 was blocked.

This I don't understand. Pygmy's elided and restored message implicated NAF1138 strongly. Are you thinking that the entire incident might have been staged?No. I just want to make sure that we're not overlooking something that might indicate NAF is innocent. If I had to vote right now it would be for NAF.

*Tries reading again.*





1 I've amended the quote to take up the correction you made in your EBWOP post.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
08-31-2007, 04:15 PM
So I am thinking of not poking you all with sticks for the rest of the Day, it's my birthday and life is too short.

But I do plan on talking about non game related subjects.

We have 10 slots left in the sign up for Firefly Mafia on Idle's board.

Could someone post a link in the forbidden thread for me?

http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=asylumlane&action=display&thread=1188491178

Thanks much.

Go, Cultist. It's yer birfday...

Happy Birthday. :)

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 04:57 PM
Go, Cultist. It's yer birfday...

Happy Birthday. :)


THANKS!

I was hoping that my office would close early today (what with Monday being a holiday and all) but it looks like I am going to be here till 5.

Ah well.

Anyone want to join me in dunking Top Dog?

FlyingCowOfDoom
08-31-2007, 05:15 PM
Happy Birthday, NAF.

Sorry, we're still going to kill you.

--FCOD

NAF1138
08-31-2007, 05:32 PM
Happy Birthday, NAF.

Sorry, we're still going to kill you.

--FCOD


Little ol me?

Why?

You guys seriously believe Pygmy?

MHaye
08-31-2007, 07:04 PM
I've reread.

Pygmy Rugger's slip strongly implicates NAF1138 the birthday boy. The way it is phrased and (more importantly) the immediate edit does not fit the hypothesis that PR was setting us up by smearing a Town-aligned nonbeliever.

I went looking for solid evidence that NAF was a Townie. Something that could support a case for the defence and allow a "devil's advocate" - testing the general belief that NAF is scum based on ]b]PR[/b]'s slip.

I didn't find anything like that.

What I did find was 3912. In this post, NAF argues that :-For what it is worth, I feel we can probably afford the mislynch now. The cult went after Catina which makes me think that they are trying to clear the way for unrestricted night kills.This is wrong. If the game is in a LyLo state, then the only way for the Town to get out of that state is for the Doctor type role(s) to successfully block a two kills. The Cult successfully killing the Disciple ensured the Town could not recover from LyLo.

Pleonast's Martyr role probably could not help as it would just replace one death with another (at least that was my reading of the role, without knowing exactly what powers his role had).

I think that's enough for me to support this execution.

Vote NAF1138.

Have a good birthday anyway.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
08-31-2007, 08:02 PM
Is anyone else going to be around over the weekend? We were going to go camping, but now we're going to clean house instead. Wooo :( So I'm sure I'll be checking the boards and avoiding the state of our carpet, if anyone would like to ponder our post-NAF moves.

MHaye
08-31-2007, 08:05 PM
I'll be here - seeing as Monday isn't a holiday over here (that was last Monday). I have some things to do but they should be done before you've had breakfast.

USCDiver
09-01-2007, 02:47 AM
I'm working 5p-2a again this weekend, so I'll be around late at night and during the afternoon. Plus, if it's slow, occasionally I'll take a peak while working, but no substantive posting during those times. I'm going to hold off on placing my vote for NAF1138 to let those who are away for the weekend avoid the 12 hour clock.

Kyrie Eleison
09-01-2007, 10:39 AM
I'm about to leave for Vermont for a weekend of poker and golf with some friends. I'll have net access, but I suspect that I'll have limited attention (and perhaps sobriety) to spend on this game. Although I should return home before today's deadline, I'll leave my vote standing just in case I'm delayed.

Queuing
09-01-2007, 03:24 PM
I will be checking in occasionally over the weekend. My long weekend is going to mostly involve painting with a little cleaning thrown in for good measure. So while I will have time to keep up to date I will not have time to do any sort of in-depth looking at anyone or answering any accusations.

I am assuming we are holding off on voting until later? I will be voting NAF.

MHaye
09-01-2007, 03:27 PM
The current unofficial vote count :

NAF1138 2 : Kyrie Eleison, MHaye
Top Dog 1 : NAF1138.

USCDiver
09-01-2007, 03:48 PM
I am assuming we are holding off on voting until later? I will be voting NAF.

I think that would be best. At this point, with 7 players it only takes 4 votes to start the countdown. The Day is scheduled to end at 1:30p on Monday. So we can place our votes late Sunday/early Monday. The only downside is that we're not going to have many substantive posts Today to help find the remaining Cultist(s).

Idle Thoughts
09-01-2007, 06:41 PM
Now just 1000 posts plus to beat the top record.

MHaye
09-01-2007, 06:43 PM
It probably doesn't have that much steam left.

USCDiver
09-02-2007, 01:51 AM
Well, I think we can get some good post-game discussion and analysis for this game since there were so many twists and turns. Maybe we can get it up to 4500

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-02-2007, 05:24 PM
It is too fscking hot to read...

Idle Thoughts
09-02-2007, 05:41 PM
One more post (after this one) needed for post number 4040.

USCDiver
09-03-2007, 01:29 AM
vote NAF1138

Queuing
09-03-2007, 11:27 AM
Dunk NAF

USCDiver
09-03-2007, 12:27 PM
One hour to Dusk.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-03-2007, 01:27 PM
I don't believe I've voted yet either. Vote NAF

USCDiver
09-03-2007, 01:37 PM
Unofficial final vote count:

NAF1138(5): Kyrie Eleison, MHaye, USCDiver, Queuing, Cookies
Top Dog(1): NAF1138

Did not vote: FCOD

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-03-2007, 02:17 PM
Ah crap...I did not intend to not vote.

Oh well. I think it's pretty obvious I would have voted for NAF.

--FCOD

USCDiver
09-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Blam Blam?! Where you at?!

NAF1138
09-03-2007, 04:56 PM
Blam Blam?! Where you at?!

He's still not here?

Crap, he probably can't post cause of the holiday.

Can I head over to the forbidden thread anyway?

MHaye
09-03-2007, 06:06 PM
BlaM is travelling this week. He said so in post 3879.

Blaster Master
09-03-2007, 10:17 PM
I've got a few minutes of internet time from Puerto Rico. Give me a few minutes to catch up.

Blaster Master
09-03-2007, 10:23 PM
It has come to my attention that there is some game breaking information on the scum boards in Idle Thoughts' Psychopath game. Anyone who has not checked it out, please do not. If you have, please let me know via PM so that I can try to come up with a way to correct the problem. If it is only the one person who has told me so far, it shouldn't be too hard to handle.

As for ending the Day, it's going to have to be fairly short and sweet, and I'll get to all the book-keeping stuff a bit more later...

Blaster Master
09-03-2007, 10:32 PM
After the "fall" of Pygmy Rugger that led to his demise, it wasn't much of a stretch to carry the slip of his words to incriminate the garrulous NAF1138. Yet again, he was quickly siezed and shackled, and yet again, the mysterious "Top Dog" was invoked.

Much like the Top Dog, NAF1138 was too cooked over an open flame; but unlike it, he no longer remained a mystery.

NAF1138, a Cultist, has been cooked.

-----------------------------------------

The Night will end at 10:30 PM EDT on Wednesday or when all Night instructions are receive or, more likely, when I have access again at my hotel on Wednesday night.

Queuing
09-04-2007, 01:52 PM
No way do I go all the way to page 2 for this!

Plus, where are all the drinkers? Damn bartender is dead, but why let that stop us?

USCDiver
09-04-2007, 02:05 PM
I don't trust any of you enough to drink with you now.

Queuing
09-04-2007, 02:21 PM
Oh fine, be that way. No drinks for you!

MHaye
09-04-2007, 02:40 PM
Did somebody say drink?

Yes I think that's a good idea. It's possible that my viewings failed because I didn't partake of the libations.

*Finds a bottle of slivovitz and pours a generous measure.*

Cheers everyone.

Queuing
09-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Finally I don't have to look so lonely and desperate!

Grabs a bottle of Tequila and takes a swig

NAF1138
09-04-2007, 02:51 PM
Well I'm dead.

Avenge Me!

AVENGE ME!

Go team Sekham!

And will somebody please take down that damn Top Dog?

MHaye
09-04-2007, 03:03 PM
You know what this town needs?

A supply of +1 Ghost Touch Mancatchers. That'll settle the ghostly cultists hashes once and for all.

The Dog will see you out, NAF.

:D

Queuing
09-04-2007, 03:07 PM
A supply of +1 Ghost Touch Mancatchers. That'll settle the ghostly cultists hashes once and for all.

Ok, that sounds like some sort of sex toy to me.


It must the tequila talking ;)

Idle Thoughts
09-04-2007, 03:44 PM
It has come to my attention that there is some game breaking information on the scum boards in Idle Thoughts' Psychopath game. Anyone who has not checked it out, please do not. If you have, please let me know via PM so that I can try to come up with a way to correct the problem. If it is only the one person who has told me so far, it shouldn't be too hard to handle.

As for ending the Day, it's going to have to be fairly short and sweet, and I'll get to all the book-keeping stuff a bit more later...

It was deleted two days ago. :p

Thank you to all who told me about it.

USCDiver
09-04-2007, 04:06 PM
In the interest of fairness I think you should post it here too. :D

MHaye
09-04-2007, 04:09 PM
Ok, that sounds like some sort of sex toy to me.


It must the tequila talking ;)A mancatcher is the sort of thing a bounty-hunter might use to catch a criminal.

A ghost touch mancatcher would be something the well-equipped hunter of the supernatural would possess should he need to ensure a ghost cannot escape from him.

(And I'm drinking slivovitz today. Never really acquired a taste for tequila.)

CatInASuit
09-04-2007, 06:40 PM
<Ghostly Voice>

Hey, I just realised my card is still behind the bar.

Those Cultists knocked me off before I got a chance to get it back

Oh well, I guess drinks are still on me then.

</Ghostly Voice>

DiggitCamara
09-04-2007, 07:53 PM
In the interest of fairness I think you should post it here too. :D
Of course I will! It was instrumental in rooting out the psychos in CrazyVille!

But I'll spoiler it, nonetheless:


You see, it all hinged on Idle Thoughts What do you mean, I'll break the game? I'm town. Two times! I have a right to tell them! Let me go, I'll tell you! I... don't ... what do you have in that syringe? No! It's not fair, I tell you! Help! HELP!!!!111ONE!!!

dotchan
09-04-2007, 08:05 PM
It's obvious, isn't it, that your remaining cult members are the mysterious Top Dog and his scumbuddy No Lynch?

:D

DiggitCamara
09-04-2007, 08:09 PM
It's obvious, isn't it, that your remaining cult members are the mysterious Top Dog and his scumbuddy No Lynch?

:D
Scum! Scum!

USCDiver
09-05-2007, 12:59 AM
This town sure is haunted at night....

Stanislaus
09-05-2007, 04:13 AM
Well, some of us have unfinished business to attend to. Such as killing you all in your sleep. But no, it's all "Lynch him for the good of the town" and "Phew, dodged a bullet there". Now I wander the earth in torment with naught but my ghostly disembowelling dagger to keep me company. I'm angry and bitter and frustrated but most of all... lonely. There, I said it.

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to get maudlin drunk (on spirits, obviously) before making pathetic and doomed attempts to carve you up with strictly metaphysical weaponry, only to descend into a fit of ectoplasmic sobbing. It's not a great plan, but it does let me keep my dignity.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Enough with the cultish contemplation. Kill some poor innocent already. :P

NAF1138
09-05-2007, 02:01 PM
Enough with the cultish contemplation. Kill some poor innocent already. :P

fun scum fact: It aint the cult holding up the show this time.

NAF1138
09-05-2007, 05:42 PM
We can still fit 3 more people in the off board game. Zeriel? Kyrie? Queuing? Anyone else I am missing?

Come play off board, I promise it is just as much, if not more fun.

Join us here (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=firefly&action=display&thread=1188491178&page=1)

Blaster Master
09-05-2007, 08:16 PM
Dawn coming up... again, it'll have to be short and sweet since I'm still in in Puerto Rico.

Blaster Master
09-05-2007, 08:46 PM
The citizens, certain they had finally gained the upper hand against the Cult, gathered anxiously in the courtyard of the temple to track down what they believed to be the last member or two left. As it seemed everyone had gathered, they looked around for their self-declared Apprentice to reveal his readings from the previous Night to perhaps give them a new lead... but he was no where to be found.

Quickly, knowing it could mean only the worst, the citizens ran to his home where they found the cultists had not spared the expense of hiding their work. It seemed, knowing that he would be in deep meditation, they simply broke the door down, and slew him, with his very own crystal ball across the back of his skull.

Strangely, however, despite his heart having been removed like all the others, his eyes remained untouched, while the remainder of his body was clearly ritrualistically mutilated. The crystal ball, which now laided only a few inches from his head, now bears a large crack edged by a blood splatter that seemed to mark the site of impact that rendered it useless.

MHaye, the Apprentice, has been bashed.

------------------------------------

The Day will end at 8:45 PM EDT on Saturday.

Blaster Master
09-05-2007, 08:48 PM
FTR, I have no received any PMs from anyone still in the game that they have seen the game-breaking information from the M6 mafia board, so I will assume that none of you have seen it.

MHaye
09-05-2007, 08:49 PM
*A ghostly visage floats sorrowfully above the mutilated body. Lifting an arm in farewell, his spirit floated off to the Threads Beyond...*

Queuing
09-05-2007, 08:49 PM
Well that was no surprise. There isn't many of us left, so who wants to start?

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-05-2007, 09:08 PM
Alive
2 USCDiver
12 Kyrie Eleison
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Dead
11 Mtgman - Non-Believer - Day One
4 zuma [Ver. 1] - Citizen - Night One
1 Kat - Cultist - Day Two
6 storyteller0910 - Monk - Night Two
15 DiggitCamara [Ver. 1] - Crusader - Night Two
20 Scuba_Ben - Citizen - Day Three
13 Hal Briston - Oracle - Night Three
29 MadTheSwine - Citizen - Day Four
9 SnakesCatLady - Citizen - Night Four
30 Captain Klutz - Non-Believer - Day Five
26 HazelNutCoffee - Citizen - Night Five
28 fluiddruid - Citizen - Day Six
18 amrussell - Psychopath - Day Seven
16 Fretful Porpentine - Priest - Night Seven
25 DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] - Citizen - Day Eight
22 Zeriel - Monk - Night Eight
3 Idle Thoughts - Cultist - Day Nine
8 sachetorte - Monk - Day Nine
23 zuma [Ver. 2] - Avatar - Day Ten
10 CatinaSuit - Disciple - Night Ten
14 Pleonast - Martyr - Mid-Day Eleven
17 PygmyRugger - Cultist - Day Eleven
5 Hockey Monkey - Alchemist - Night Eleven
7 NAF1138 - Cultist - Day Twelve
27 MHaye - Apprentice - Night Twelve

Substitutions
Kyrie Eleison (Repl. Clockwork Jackal )
Nava (Repl. Captain Carrot )
Kat (Repl. ArizonaTeach )
DiggitCamara [Ver. 2] (Repl. Autolycus )
Zuma [Ver. 2] (Repl. MonkeyMensch )
amrussell (Repl. Pasta )
Pygmy Rugger (Repl. Nava )
CatinaSuit (Repl. Malacandra )[/QUOTE]

USCDiver
09-05-2007, 09:21 PM
Well that was no surprise. There isn't many of us left, so who wants to start?

It was a surprise to me. It basically confirms he was never Converted and we can trust all of his AOD readings. Although, we get no more readings, I was taking them all with a grain of salt anyway.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-05-2007, 09:34 PM
At this point, FCoD and Queuing are on the top of my suspicions list.

My case (for lack of a better word) against FCod has been laid out previously, and I shall attempt to suppliment it as this Day progresses.

My Queuing hunch has been building since just prior to Monkgate, when he was one of few who publically supported the monks staying tight-lipped. If monk-counterclaiming had been in the scum's pre-meditated playbook, I think nudging toward later monk claims would be in the scum's best interest. If the whole counter-claim situation was a spontaneous reaction to my claiming on behalf of sachertorte and myself, then this theory doesn't go very far.

USCDiver
09-05-2007, 09:51 PM
Here's a recap of all of MHaye's reported readings. Subsequently confirmed readings are in bold.

Before the Oracle's Death(approx 50% accurate)
Night 1: Diggitv2 - Nonbeliever
Night 2: fluiddruid - Believer
Night 3: HazelNutCoffee - Believer

After the Oracle's Death(100% accurate or no reading)
Night 4: Pleonast - Believer
Night 5: FlyingCowOfDoom - Believer
Night 6: CatinaSuit - Disciple
Night 7: sachertorte - Monk
Night 8: Queuing - no read
Night 9: Kyrie - no read
Night 10: NAF1138 - Nonbeliever
Night 11: Queuing - no read (again!)

===============

I think we can safely say that there is the Prophet and a Recruit left to deal with at this point. That means it's 3 Town vs 2 Cult... ie Lynch or Lose. FCOD has certainly been hiding behind her Believer investigation for quite sometime. Unfortunately too, the voting since the Night 9 No-Kill (the most likely recruit night) has been near unanimous (zuma, then Pygmy, then NAF) which makes it difficult to root out the Recruit.

Anyways, I gots my eye on all of you.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-05-2007, 10:22 PM
I think we can safely say that there is the Prophet and a Recruit left to deal with at this point. That means it's 3 Town vs 2 Cult... ie Lynch or Lose. FCOD has certainly been hiding behind her Believer investigation for quite sometime. Unfortunately too, the voting since the Night 9 No-Kill (the most likely recruit night) has been near unanimous (zuma, then Pygmy, then NAF) which makes it difficult to root out the Recruit.FOS (j/k) on you for getting my gender wrong AGAIN! :p

I haven't been hiding behind anything. I've always pointed out that I could potentially be the Prophet, although I'm not. Let's not forget that if it weren't for me, Pygmy Rugger's mistake would have gone un-noticed and we wouldn't have caught two Cultists.

--FCOD

Queuing
09-05-2007, 10:23 PM
Unfortunately too, the voting since the Night 9 No-Kill (the most likely recruit night)

Why is night 9 more likely then night 6?

USCDiver
09-06-2007, 12:07 AM
I haven't been hiding behind anything. I've always pointed out that I could potentially be the Prophet, although I'm not. Let's not forget that if it weren't for me, Pygmy Rugger's mistake would have gone un-noticed and we wouldn't have caught two Cultists.


Well, that certainly is a point in your favor.

Why is night 9 more likely then night 6?

Because by Night 9 all the Monks had been outed during Monkgate. This left no unrecruitable players' identities unknown to the Cult.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-06-2007, 12:15 AM
Well, Idle voted to dunk Kat and that bit of pro-town smokescreen certainly paid off for him.

I can see a craftily and quickly played discovery of a fellow scum's mistake (that happens to take down 2 bretheren) as an aggressive endplay.

USCDiver
09-06-2007, 12:44 AM
That's true, but you'd think that he would have had every opportunity to work that slip to the Cult advantage. Actually.... if he had reported the slip as saying 'Move the Avatar power to me [Pygmy Rugger]' and not actually mentioned NAF1138, there is a good chance we would have lynched someone else yesterday making it 3 vs 3 today and a Scum win.

Like I said, a point in his favor, but it certainly doesn't remove him 100% from suspicion.

[OOG]My grandmother died yesterday, rather expectedly. However I'm going to be working/traveling tomorrow and hanging with my family for a few days. So I'll be reading and posting as much as possible at my parents' house, but I certainly won't be glued to the computer like I am at my house. I won't miss a vote though, I promise. [OOG]

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-06-2007, 12:51 AM
Sorry for your loss, USCDiver. :(

Queuing
09-06-2007, 09:16 AM
2 USCDiver
12 Kyrie Eleison
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - unrecruitable, we know she is good.

I still have seen no good explanation for night 6. Sure, maybe the scum recruited on night 9 as every power role was known. However there was also a better chance that they would be blocked as the number of people who could have been protected went up. It is safe to assume that they just went for some random vanilla. Of the 4 I know what I am, so its down to 3. Of those 3 2 are most likely scum. I still think its Kyrie.

Vote Kyrie

Cookies, one question, you seem to think I am scum because I didn't want the monks to claim. This is not what I said. What I have always said is that we should not talk about town power roles and should let them claim as they want. If they choose to claim then let them, if they don't then fine. It is up to them and talking about it does no good. I have held this position since day 1 yet you find it scummy for some reason. I don't understand why you insist on using this as a reason even though it is not true in the slightest. Unless someone comes up with a better case then the one that I have made against Kyrie I will not be changing my vote.

Kyrie Eleison
09-06-2007, 03:09 PM
Well that was no surprise.
It was a surprise to me. Cookies is confirmed, while it was at least possible that MHaye was the recruit. I expected Cookies to have been killed last night to leave the suspect pool as large as possible today. Now, instead of five possible recruits, we're looking at a pool of four.

I tend to see FCoD's revelation of Pygmy's slip as exculpatory. It seems too elaborate and too expensive to have been planned, especially so soon after monkgate had failed. I suppose that it's possible that it was an opportunistic move following an inadvertent slip by Pygmy, but that, too, seems unlikely. Wouldn't it have been better just to hope that Pygmy's "oops, wrong board" edit stood unnoticed or unchallenged rather than call attention to it?

Kyrie Eleison
09-06-2007, 03:34 PM
EBWOP: That last question wasn't meant to be rhetorical. It seems that I may be ascribing more meaning to FCoD's action than others, and particularly, more than Cookies, whom I know to be on the up-and-up. I wonder if I'm overlooking something in my analysis.

USCDiver
09-06-2007, 11:20 PM
So I did a quick skim through Day 1 focusing on the remaining players and their interactions with known scum. To be honest there were so many votes and FOS that it was difficult to draw any conclusions. I'm posting from my iPhone right now but I will try to post more details when I get to my parent's house tomorrow.

Queuing
09-07-2007, 01:29 PM
Ohoh, page 2. I guess no one has any real ideas about what to do.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-07-2007, 03:19 PM
Vote Kyrie Eleison. I think you came to my defense a little too strongly. For all the town knows, I could have seen Pygmy's genuine mistake, assumed others may have seen it, and sold out my fellow Cultists to cement my Towniness. That didn't happen, of course, but why are you so quick to defend me?

--FCOD

Kyrie Eleison
09-07-2007, 04:22 PM
Vote Kyrie Eleison. I think you came to my defense a little too strongly. For all the town knows, I could have seen Pygmy's genuine mistake, assumed others may have seen it, and sold out my fellow Cultists to cement my Towniness. That didn't happen, of course, but why are you so quick to defend me? (color removed)
Well, I didn't mean to defend you, but I realize it might appear that way. My question was an honest one. It became obvious to me that I, personally, was considering the incident more strongly as evidence in your favor than others were. What you may have perceived as an attempt to sway others in your defense was actually a plea with others to sway me -- to show me why I was wrong to do so. That's why I included the second post to clarify that the question I asked was not rhetorical -- I was really hoping that someone would supply an answer.

I still am. It still seems to me that if things were as you hypothesize, you would have been better off hoping that no one else saw it than to knowingly sell two of your own down the river. But maybe not, because here I am considering it possible evidence in your favor. If it was a ploy, it was apparently effective.

Additionally, unlike many previous days, we're at a point where we can identify cultists through a process of elimination. I don't think it's inappropriate to discuss possibly exculpatory evidence at this point.

Kyrie Eleison
09-07-2007, 04:33 PM
On a more procedural note, I've been unusually busy at work for the last few days, and haven't really had much time to pay attention to the game. But I expect to have ample time over the weekend to consider and cast a vote.

I am more suspicious of Queuing at the moment than of anyone else, but I need to determine to my own satisfaction that my suspicion isn't due to the fact that he's been casting suspicion toward me for days now.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-07-2007, 04:40 PM
I'm trying to slog through the game and look closely at everyone. It is taking me forever. :(

It is definitely strange being 100% confirmed town at this stage of the game. I didn't realize how much I have relied on using defensiveness as a catalyst to analysis.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-07-2007, 05:59 PM
2 USCDiver
12 Kyrie Eleison
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
21 Queuing
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - unrecruitable, we know she is good.

I still have seen no good explanation for night 6. Sure, maybe the scum recruited on night 9 as every power role was known. However there was also a better chance that they would be blocked as the number of people who could have been protected went up. It is safe to assume that they just went for some random vanilla. Of the 4 I know what I am, so its down to 3. Of those 3 2 are most likely scum. I still think its Kyrie.

Vote Kyrie



So are you saying that you believe Kyrie was non-Prophet :D original scum on Night 6? Or are you saying that Kyrie was recruited on Night 6?

Because Hockey's blocking of Kyrie on that night would've prevented him from being a (successful) recruiter or the recruitee on that night, right?

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-07-2007, 06:11 PM
There I go with the damn math again.

Hockey only had a [1/n] chance of her Night 6 block on Kyrie being successful.

I'm a bit dubious about the probability that both the Cultists and Hockey would both target Kyrie for their special powers that Night.

USCDiver
09-07-2007, 11:11 PM
Well, I'm at a crossroads here and I think Cookies' and my decisions today may be the difference in a Town win vs a Cult win.

I'm going to go through the possible iterations of combos of 2 Scum:

Kyrie/Queuing: if Kyrie is Prophet, Queuing gets Town points for voting for him multiple times, possibly can steer the Town against someone else tomorrow securing a cult win

Kyrie/FCOD: if Kyrie is the Prophet, FCOD gets some Town cred for voting for him and we know that FCOD is not the Prophet, but he could still be a Recruit and goes after Queuing tomorrow

FCOD/Queuing: together they lead the charge against an innocent Kyrie Today and win the game with a Town kill tonight.

Just want to point out, when this game is 80 pages long the town probably will not be checking context from Day 1 clearly.

You ain't kidding. I've been trying, but there's so much noise in the signal.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-07-2007, 11:18 PM
So far I've skimmed since dawn of Day 7, mostly looking for FCoD's posts, and occassionally wandering down tangents.

If I had to vote right now, I'd likely go for FCoD. But I'm not going to vote untill the very last minute, in all likelyhood.

USCDiver
09-07-2007, 11:47 PM
Gah, I was hoping for some brilliant insight from you Cookies because I have none. Who, other than FCOD, do you think may be scum?

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-08-2007, 10:52 AM
Gah, I was hoping for some brilliant insight from you Cookies because I have none. Who, other than FCOD, do you think may be scum?

I'm still looking.

Queuing
09-08-2007, 11:54 AM
So are you saying that you believe Kyrie was non-Prophet :D original scum on Night 6? Or are you saying that Kyrie was recruited on Night 6?

Because Hockey's blocking of Kyrie on that night would've prevented him from being a (successful) recruiter or the recruitee on that night, right?

It means I think Kyrie is original scum. Since we only have 1 original scum left, then yes the prophet.

Queuing
09-08-2007, 11:55 AM
Oh crap, not edited to add:

When does toDay end?

Kyrie Eleison
09-08-2007, 12:01 PM
When does toDay end?
Oh, crap, I'm glad you asked that. Blaster's signature (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8951679&postcount=4073) still reflects the closing time of Day 12, and I was operating under the assumption that the day ended at 1:30 PM, Monday. It doesn't -- it ends tonight at 8:45 PM.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-08-2007, 12:03 PM
Vote FCoD

Working in somewhat reverse chronological order...

The two players at the top of my list, FCoD & Queuing are both voting for Kyrie. I have much less of a tangible case against Queuing in comparison at this point, but my gut seems to be reenforced by their vote block.

Further, I find FCod's justification with his vote for Kyrie to be odd. Voting for player that you suspect because you think he/she was overly defensive of you just doesn't feel like solid reasoning in the endgame. I don't think a scummy Kyrie would make such a play at manipulation at this point in the game, and I'm not buying FCoD's attempt at taking him down for it.

And finally, I've whiddled my rather long and nasty list of "interesting" FCoD posts to the below short burst, surrounding his question about BM's use of "Citizen". These were not included in my previous cases against FCod, but the more I re-read the game, the more I feel they should be drug out into the harsh light of day.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8925922#post8925922
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8927793#post8927793
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8928885#post8928885
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8930265#post8930265
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8930760#post8930760

At the time, there was so much else going on that I didn't find the potential slip to be overy incriminating, and USCDiver seemed to feel the same way at that point in time, but things change. Have they possibly changed for you as well, USCDiver?

I also think that the whole situation with the Avatar that came shortly thereafter distracted everyone from really examining the potential slip and FCod as much as we all would have without the Avatar situation.

Kyrie Eleison
09-08-2007, 01:26 PM
I have to apologize; I've screwed up rather badly. I planned on having the entire weekend available to review and to decide, with plenty of time remaining on Sunday and Monday to consider and discuss, only to belatedly discover that the day ends tonight at 8:45.

My position is relatively simple. Cookies is confirmed, and there are one or two scum left, with the safe assumption being two. It's a matter of deciding which of Queuing, FCoD, and USCDiver is least likely to be a cultist, and, having eliminated that person, deciding which of the two remaining is most likely to be a cultist and casting a vote for that person, moving to the second most likely if practicality requires that I do so.

I've been looking most closely at Queuing, and I'm still suspicious. But some of my suspicions are contradictory. On Day 5, for example, Queuing went from stating that Zeriel was most likely town, to voting for him in the span of a few posts. Early in the game, he was a proponent of the "shout out the name of the Oracle" scheme that was supposed to allow the Oracle to identify the Apprentice, but later, he was adamantly opposed to telling power roles what they should do, and claimed to have always been opposed to directing the actions of power roles.

Contradicting this is my suspicion that he was recruited on Night 6. If that night was a recruit, only two recruitable players had claimed: Hockey and Queuing. And it seems that I'm still the only one who gives credit to his claim of a specific role at that time, one which he hasn't countered since. If the recruit happened that night, Hockey was the obvious choice, but we know she wasn't recruited. I doubt the cult would have gone with such an obvious choice. But it's possible that no recruit happened at all that night.

But if he was recruited on Night 6, the things I find scummy before then have to be discounted.

On a more personal level, he twice made a demonstrably factually incorrect claim regarding me to justify voting for me, one which he promised to review. I've seen nothing posted since that would indicate that he's retracted his claim, but he's also not specifically renewed it.

Finally, first thing today, he expressed that the night-kill of MHaye was not surprising. I think it should have been surprising, as Cookies would seem to have been a more logical choice. The cult had to have had some reason to pick an ambiguous MHaye over a confirmed Cookies, and I can't help but read Queuing's "not surprising" comment as a subtle attempt to deter discussion of what the reason might have been.

On the other hand, I did find FCoD's "citizen slip" somewhat questionable, until he pointed out the Pygmy/NAF slip. On the balance, I thought that the significance of the latter outweighed that of the former. But, upon attempting to discuss the significance of the affair, I found him voting for me for "defending" him, despite the fact that he, himself, asked that we consider it in his favor. If he's willing to argue that I should have dismissed its significance and not brought it up, I'm willing to dismiss it.

Doing so leaves me at this point with a suspect list in the following order: Queuing, FCoD, USCDiver, Cookies. I would prefer to vote for Queuing, but as a practical matter, with Cookies already voting for FCoD, I'm willing to settle for my second choice.

Back to the apology portion of this post. In just a few minutes, I have to go out for about 3 hours this afternoon. I had really planned to spend a lot of time tomorrow reviewing and on not voting until then, but now I have to squeeze things into today. I'm going to go on record with a vote FCoD for now, but when I return home around 4:30 PM EDT, I will review further.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-08-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm also heading out for a few hours.

If more of a case against Queuing builds, I would consider switching my vote.

Be back later.

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 02:44 PM
My original thoughts heading in to Today were that Kyrie was the Prophet and Queueing was a Convert. But Queuing voting for Kyrie in that scenario makes no sense because it would basically confirm that FCOD is NOT the Prophet. That still leaves open the possibility that Queueing is the Prophet and FCOD or Kyrie is a Convert.

I'm not sure what advantage Queuing would get in voting for another Cultist (even the Convert) at this point unless he plans to focus on me or FCOD tomorrow as the Prophet.

There is some compelling evidence that Kyrie is not one of the original Cultists/Prophet. He had an end of Day vote on Kat in BOTH Day 1 and Day 2. This would be incredibly foolish for the Prophet (it was risky enough for NAF1138 and Idle Thoughts).

I see now that both Kyrie and Cookies have voted for FCOD. I would honestly prefer to go after Queueing first. If you both are amenable to switching votes let's do so.

vote Queuing

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 02:47 PM
Unofficial Vote count:

Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom
FlyingCowOfDoom (2) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Queuing (1) - USCDiver

Kyrie Eleison
09-08-2007, 05:12 PM
I see now that both Kyrie and Cookies have voted for FCOD. I would honestly prefer to go after Queueing first. If you both are amenable to switching votes let's do so.
Queuing remains my first choice as well. If Cookies switches, I will do so also.

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Queuing remains my first choice as well. If Cookies switches, I will do so also.

Go ahead and switch, if it ends as a tie, we get a 12 hour extension and Cookies chooses between Kyrie and Queuing. There's no reason not to vote for your first choice at this point.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-08-2007, 06:14 PM
Yeah, I could get behind a Queuing dunk. Unvote Kyrie Eleison, vote Queuing.

--FCOD

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Unofficial Vote count:

FlyingCowOfDoom (2) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Queuing (2) - USCDiver, FlyingCowOfDoom
Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 06:49 PM
EBWOP: Obviously Kyrie has only one vote.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-08-2007, 07:14 PM
My vote is standing, for now.

Kyrie Eleison
09-08-2007, 07:40 PM
Great, now my second choice is voting for my first choice, and I'm pretty sure that at least one of them is a cultist. I'm inclined to send this into overtime while we sort it out.

USCDiver suggested that I ought to switch my vote to Queuing without waiting to see if Cookies was willing to do the same, but while I was considering that, FCoD switched his vote. Frankly, USC, I'm more certain that Cookies vote was honestly cast than yours, and I wasn't inclined to lock her into a choice between myself and Queuing, and thus excluding FCoD, without hearing from her first.

I've been reviewing scum posts, without obtaining much insight, but I do find this worth mentioning: On Day 8, NAF1138, in post 2885: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8876221&postcount=2885), created a "list of three":

Me, I don't know anymore. This game has got me a little bit spun. I agree with everyone's analysis of MHaye. It looks scummy as all get out. I also agree with Pleonast about FCoD, he is up there for me now. Cookies is striking me as scummy, but as I have said before, there is just something about her posting style in these games that ALWAYS strikes me as scummy. I don't know what to do about that, because at this point I am not sure I can ignore that fact any longer.

Two of the three are now confirmed. The supposed rule is that any list of three suspects created by scum will contain one scum. I'm not sure I buy it as a general rule, but I did notice it, so I though I would point it out for consideration. I think it's weak, but there it is, nonetheless.

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 07:53 PM
Well, I'm content with the voting as it is now because it will end up forcing Queuing to vote for FCOD (or himself, natch) after the 12 hour extension.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-08-2007, 08:30 PM
I realize that what I'm about to do may seem scummy, but it really is in the best interest of the Town. If I leave my vote where it is, I will be dunked. Queuing will be forced to choose between me and himself (as USCDiver pointed out), and I don't think that will be a difficult decision for him.

Since I know I'm Town and I suspect we're in a LyLo situation, I have to do everything I can to try to prolong my life, so...

Unvote Queuing
Vote Kyrie Eleison

Please consider all of the pro-town actions I've taken, like asking the Monks to claim and ratting out Pygmy Rugger.

--FCOD

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 09:04 PM
Unofficial Vote count:

Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom
FlyingCowOfDoom (2) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Queuing (1) - USCDiver

If I understand the voting rules, we're now in a 12 hour countdown during which we must all vote for either Kyrie or FCOD.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-08-2007, 09:17 PM
Unofficial Vote count:

Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom
FlyingCowOfDoom (2) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Queuing (1) - USCDiver

If I understand the voting rules, we're now in a 12 hour countdown during which we must all vote for either Kyrie or FCOD.Or nobody. But that would be dumb.

--FCOD

Kyrie Eleison
09-08-2007, 09:51 PM
Please consider all of the pro-town actions I've taken, like asking the Monks to claim and ratting out Pygmy Rugger.
Nice. You know, the last time you asked us to consider the latter, you responded by voting for me when I did as you asked and tried to discuss it with everyone else.

I really hope you're scum, because if it's Queuing/USCDiver, it's over.

USCDiver
09-08-2007, 10:58 PM
Well, I'm going to go ahead and vote for FlyingCowOfDoom as my second choice.

Queuing
09-08-2007, 11:37 PM
On Day 5, for example, Queuing went from stating that Zeriel was most likely town, to voting for him in the span of a few posts.

I don't remember this at all, so I can't defend myself at all about this. Some clarification, or you know some active links, would have been nice

Early in the game, he was a proponent of the "shout out the name of the Oracle" scheme that was supposed to allow the Oracle to identify the Apprentice, but later, he was adamantly opposed to telling power roles what they should do, and claimed to have always been opposed to directing the actions of power roles.

True I was a proponent of the 2nd plan, that to be honest I don't even remember now. Then sachertorte pointed out a rather fatal flaw in the plan, I said "oh, good point, never mind". Shortly after that Storyteller came out very strongly against discussion of the power roles, and made some very good points about why it was a very stupid strategy. He convinced me, and except for Day 1, I have been very vocal about not talking about the power roles.

On Day 1 your role was very high up on the list of potential scum, but has since been ignored. You tried to get us to ignore that Day 1 fact, so I find it odd that you are using Day 1 against me.

Contradicting this is my suspicion that he was recruited on Night 6. If that night was a recruit, only two recruitable players had claimed: Hockey and Queuing. And it seems that I'm still the only one who gives credit to his claim of a specific role at that time, one which he hasn't countered since. If the recruit happened that night, Hockey was the obvious choice, but we know she wasn't recruited. I doubt the cult would have gone with such an obvious choice. But it's possible that no recruit happened at all that night.

Most people wouldn't consider my saying that I was a vanilla believer as a claim. You seem to. You also seem to want me to say I am a vanilla believer again. So be it, I say it again. I am just a vanilla citizen.

But if he was recruited on Night 6, the things I find scummy before then have to be discounted.

I wasn't. However on Night 6 we know that you were used by our miller. It was you she chose to block. Lo and behold we have no action that night.

On a more personal level, he twice made a demonstrably factually incorrect claim regarding me to justify voting for me, one which he promised to review. I've seen nothing posted since that would indicate that he's retracted his claim, but he's also not specifically renewed it.

True. I don't retract my claim, but you have asked for proof. I have not had time to go through all of your posts to find the proof you asked for. Therefore I can no longer accuse you of it. Odd that you find this scummy.

Finally, first thing today, he expressed that the night-kill of MHaye was not surprising. I think it should have been surprising, as Cookies would seem to have been a more logical choice. The cult had to have had some reason to pick an ambiguous MHaye over a confirmed Cookies, and I can't help but read Queuing's "not surprising" comment as a subtle attempt to deter discussion of what the reason might have been.

Except the cult KNEW that they did not recruit Mhaye. Therefore his investigative powers was much more dangerous to them then the known status of cookies. Hell if they had killed cookies last night the chances of us lynching Mhaye toDay would have been very slim anyway. We still have another target for sure, why would kill the person who could help us sort this whole thing out?

I find it VERY SUSPICIOUS that both you and USC Diver are trying to turn what is a rather obvious point to me against me.

One of you answer me this:

The Scum KNOW who they recruited. The scum KNOW they didn't recruit Mhaye. So armed with this knowledge who is more dangerous to the SCUM? An investigative role or a known true believer?

The answer to this should be obvious.

I reiterate my vote and ask you all to think quite hard on this last point and the moves of both USC and Kyrie in regards to the death last night.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Yeah, it's over.

For some reason, I missed this post:
Well, I didn't mean to defend you, but I realize it might appear that way. My question was an honest one. It became obvious to me that I, personally, was considering the incident more strongly as evidence in your favor than others were. What you may have perceived as an attempt to sway others in your defense was actually a plea with others to sway me -- to show me why I was wrong to do so. That's why I included the second post to clarify that the question I asked was not rhetorical -- I was really hoping that someone would supply an answer.

I still am. It still seems to me that if things were as you hypothesize, you would have been better off hoping that no one else saw it than to knowingly sell two of your own down the river. But maybe not, because here I am considering it possible evidence in your favor. If it was a ploy, it was apparently effective.

I did, in fact misunderstand the intent of your post. My mistake was allowing the suspicion I already had for you to push me into trying to find something scummy in your post. You are still my number one candidate for scum, but I would not vote for you solely based on your post "defending" me after reading the post I quoted above. The reasoning that I posted was flawed, because you were not defending me unconditionally.

I doubt I'll be able to convince anyone to switch their votes, but please please please think about how unlikely it would be for me to expose Pygmy Rugger and get two Cultists killed.

And to all of you that still think I "slipped up" about the Citizen/Believer nonsense, you're still trying WAY TOO HARD. Seriously. I used this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8714516&postcount=5) post as a reference, and it lists the role as "Citizen/Believer". I hadn't looked at the damn PM in over 3 months, and in my head I used the term "Believer" (and so did a lot of other people, according to what they posted). So there :

Well, I have nothing else to say. I'm not going to pull an Idle Thoughts and start yelling about being innocent, but I can't say I don't feel like it.

--FCOD

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 12:02 AM
Queuing just made me realize that if both USCDiver and Kyrie Eleison are Cultists, Cookies is the only one that can prevent them from winning. Please, Cookies...do the right thing.

Arg, this is frustrating :(.

--FCOD

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 12:08 AM
Isn't the deadline long gone?

USCDiver
09-09-2007, 12:10 AM
One of you answer me this:

The Scum KNOW who they recruited. The scum KNOW they didn't recruit Mhaye. So armed with this knowledge who is more dangerous to the SCUM? An investigative role or a known true believer?

The answer to this should be obvious.

I reiterate my vote and ask you all to think quite hard on this last point and the moves of both USC and Kyrie in regards to the death last night.

Ok, I'll answer and it isn't as obvious as you seem to think. The TOWN doesn't know who or if there has been a recruit and MHaye certainly was a possibility. Leaving him in the game and killing Cookies leaves in a player with some doubt and eliminates a player with no doubt. At this point in the game, the helpfulness of the Apprentice's role is limited. We've already discussed this.

Regardless, at this point the Cult can only rely on confusion, doubt and misdirection to lead the Town into lynching a Townie. Leaving MHaye and killing Cookies makes more sense in that situation. So to answer your quesion, I think that a known unrecruitable Believer is more useful to the Town at this point than a potentially recruited and inaccurate Investigator. That's why I felt that it was 'surprising'. But I'm not scum and I'm not privvy to their discussions and strategy.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 12:10 AM
Isn't the deadline long gone?No, we ended in a tie, so we have until 8:45am to vote for either me or Kyrie.

--FCOD

Queuing
09-09-2007, 12:15 AM
You want to know what I am uncomfortable about?

That we seem to have gone into 2 camps:

Kyrie/USC and FCOD/Queuing.

Another thing that I don't get is why 2 of you at least; Kyrie and Cookies, seem sure that USC is a believer. Or is it just his turn of phrase making it seem that way?

Regardless I suppose it comes down to me or Kyrie.

Voting for Kyrie

FCOD
Queuing

Voting for Queuing

Cookies
Kyrie

I am assuming that USC will switch his vote to me, so yes, it is only cookies who can save this game for the believers. Or it might not matter as the possibility does exist Kyrie is a believer too.

ON PREVIEW: What USC? As the scum you would have left an investigative role, a role that 100% accurate or nothing alive? All it takes is one more person being confirmed town and the believers would win. There is about 0% chance that we would have actually killed mhaye toDay. Sorry but what you are saying is simply incorrect. The confusion gained by leaving a somewhat unknown quantity alive who may have found a scum and who could find one every night when they KNOW that makes no sense.

Queuing
09-09-2007, 12:17 AM
inaccurate Investigator.


Is where your thoughts break down --- he is not longer inaccurate.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 12:29 AM
Uhh, Queuing...the vote count is as follows:

Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom
FlyingCowOfDoom (3) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, USCDiver

It's either me or Kyrie. You're not in danger.

--FCOD

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 12:33 AM
About the the PR/NAF-dunking slip up...

Any of us could have seen that post prior to it being edited. FCod saw it. If he was scum, he would have known that any one else could've also seen it. So he could've either sat back and let whatever fall-out happen, or he could've tried to gain some trust by "outing" his compatriots.

I just don't see it as a clear-cut case of it absolving him.

Queuing
09-09-2007, 12:33 AM
Uhh, Queuing...the vote count is as follows:

Kyrie Eleison (2) - Queuing, FlyingCowOfDoom
FlyingCowOfDoom (3) - Kyrie Eleison, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, USCDiver

It's either me or Kyrie. You're not in danger.

--FCOD


Oh, oops, sorry about that. I lost track of the votes, I thought more had voted for me. My bad.

Queuing
09-09-2007, 12:37 AM
I just don't see it as a clear-cut case of it absolving him.

FTR, I don't see it as absolving him completely either. I do think it weighs the scales down more on the side of believer then cult however. I also think his question re: citizen/believer was also potentially innocent and not good enough to lynch him on, particularly in comparison to his outing of the PR mistake. As well he posted that he saw it 5 minutes after the posted time on the PR post. That seems really quick to make such an important and game changing decision.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 12:45 AM
The deadline is at 5:45am my time, and I reallllly don't want to get up that damn early. I'm going to go through and read some more.

FTR, USCDiver is not "virtually town" in my eyes None of you are.

USCDiver
09-09-2007, 12:48 AM
Is where your thoughts break down --- he is not longer inaccurate.
I think i didn't do a good job of communicating my thoughts. A better word would be 'imprecise' meaning that he could only tell us Believer vs Non-believer. Since we're still dealing with the Prophet and a possible non-believer it doesn't help as much.

Queuing
09-09-2007, 12:52 AM
a possible non-believer it doesn't help as much.

Maybe, sure. However I wouldn't risk the game on a possibility such as this. Don't know why the scum would either.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 02:26 AM
Ok, I'm getting up early. I'm done with re-reading for the night.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 08:18 AM
For better or worse, my vote stands on FCoD. Back to bed...

zuma
09-09-2007, 10:29 AM
I like top dog.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 10:48 AM
By all means, sub in for me so that you can be closer to your beloved top dog, assuming you're not blowing hot air and that there is still a game left to sub into.

I'm more than done trying to analyze anyone.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Oh well. I hope there's only one Cultist left, because we lose otherwise.

--FCOD

zuma
09-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Well, you analyzed FCOD wrong :D

Go Cult!

zuma
09-09-2007, 10:56 AM
You will either be killed tonight, or have to choose between two, Cookies. We shall see what happens!

zuma
09-09-2007, 10:57 AM
And relax, the game is still going. Godspeed, FCOD!

zuma
09-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Will Cookies be killed? Will Kyrie be killed? Will Queuing be killed? Will USCDiver be killed? We will find out tomorrow. Who knows.....

zuma
09-09-2007, 11:06 AM
And don't dis top dog until you at least try it, Cookies. Eat one in memory of FCOD, so tragically killed

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 11:11 AM
I'm pretty sure Kyrie will still be alive Tomorrow...

--FCOD

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 01:54 PM
*pops up from the cornfield*

Where, where, are you tonight?
Why did you leave us here all alone?
I searched the thread over
And I thought I'd found true scum.

You got vacation and
*Thbpppddtttt* you were gone.

Idle Thoughts
09-09-2007, 03:51 PM
*whistles*

I'm lookin over...a four leaf clover, that I've overlooked before...

Queuing
09-09-2007, 06:24 PM
Dammit, still no closure! Hows about one of you scum be nice and honest and spill the beans?

Blaster Master
09-09-2007, 06:30 PM
Sorry everyone, I just got home from Puerto Rico late last night and been catching up on all the post travelling stuff. Dusk coming up.

Blaster Master
09-09-2007, 07:20 PM
It seemed that Today discussion was on every citizen, except for the only one they were sure that they could trust, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies. In the end, it turns out that perhaps the very man who pointed out the mumblings of Pygmy Rugger, bringing about his lynch and that of NAF1138 was guilty of the very same act. In the end, it seemed that that would be his undoing as well, and it was FlyingCowOfDoom who faced the dunk this time.

Of course, being the large man that he was, they faced a difficult task in playing shackles on his wrists; they did not fit. Surely, had he chosen to resist, with the diminished population, he would have had little difficulty escaping. Instead, he played along as they led him up the stairs to the pool of Nairu's blessed water. There, he stood at the edge, and stared into the still waters for quite some time.

Soon, the crowd began to whisper amoungst themselves as they grew impatient until, at last, the executioner stepped up to push him in, but he barely nudged behind all his strength. With that, he ushered up several other townfolk; again, despite all their might, he barely nudged. He merely craned his neck and glared at them with an expressionless face.

The executioner scratched his head. After a moment's pause, he shrugged his shoulders and took several steps back and barrelled into him with his shoulder. Just as he struck, FlyingCowOfDoom's eyes widdened like saucers as he let out a terrible cry, not too indistinguishable from a moo. He plummeted into the water with an enormous splash, and sank like a stone to the horrific sound of a gargling.

FlyingCowOfDoom, a Citizen (seriously!), has been dunked.

----------------------------------------------

The Night will end at 7:15 PM on Tuesday or when all Night instructions have been received.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-09-2007, 07:28 PM
I don't want to be a dick, but I told you so ;)

Off to the Forbidden Thread!

--FCOD

Blaster Master
09-09-2007, 07:28 PM
Some other notes...

1. Because of the mod-kill of sachetorte, I have been reconsidering the ending condition to potentially rebalance for that kill, such that the cult would require a +1 count to acheive victory. AFAICT, due to the numbers in the game, since both the Priest and Disciple are dead, this would only move a potential victory from a Dusk post to the Dawn post. IOW, it will have no effect on the outcome of the game versus him having remained in with a no-vote. So... unless anyone has any objections, I'll simply leave it alone.

2. I still have a lot of catching up to do with posting vote counts and such. I sincerely apologize for that, and I should have time for it on tommorrow.

Queuing
09-09-2007, 10:12 PM
So the game continues? Wow I was pretty sure the game was over after cookies refused to switch her vote. Interesting.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 10:15 PM
*bangs head on desk*

This game has become my own personal Groundhog Day.

USCDiver
09-09-2007, 10:40 PM
Seriously, at this point the Town has lost. Either the Conversion has already happened and it's now 2 vs 2 or the Conversion happens Tonight making it 2 v 2 at Dawn. The only reason to continue the game is if the Recruit hasn't happened, then the Prophet gets to choose which awesome, talented but new player, one who has played the game with such finessee to have been on no one's lynch list even as late as Yesterday... that player to be recruited later would potentially get to share in the Victory... empty as that may be to me him...

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 11:19 PM
The recruitment could have been lost/wasted.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-09-2007, 11:22 PM
:smack: Got lured into a night-time conversation with my brain instead of my bartender.

Jack and coke, please.

USCDiver
09-09-2007, 11:33 PM
The recruitment could have been lost/wasted.
:smack: Holy shit... I'm embarrassed that I completely overlooked this possibility, especially considering all the thought I put ito the iterations following each of the no kill nights. So we still might have a chance...Yea!! More nerve wracking days! I'll celebrate with a Chimay please.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-10-2007, 12:11 AM
MooooOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo....

--DCOD

Queuing
09-10-2007, 11:42 AM
Damn cultists! Hurry up and kill cookies would ya?

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 12:17 PM
Dawn coming up. I'll post all the other bookkeeping stuff afterward.

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 01:04 PM
The town was horrified as they looked on, helplessly, as FlyingCowOfDoom sank to the bottom of the pool. As his loyalty was revealed, they remained assured that it was a fatal mistake. Strangely though, nothing seemed to happen. Does that mean that only the Prophet remained? Perhaps they would awaken to a conversion and a razed village. Perhaps it would all come down to the instincts of just one or two villagers. The sense of fear had never been stronger, as the town retired for the evening.

At least one man, remained pessimistic; that man was USCDiver. As the rest of the town retired, he instead chose a path of self-preservation. Just as ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies left the temple, USCDiver boldly proclaimed to Kyrie Eleison, and Queuing , that he knew ONE of them was the prophet, and dared him to convert him. He would be in the town square, waiting for him.

USCDiver had long since grown impatient when a robed figure appeared. He stepped slowly toward the now cowering USCDiver. As he approached, USCDiver was not able to make out the face of his new master under the new moon. Instead, he closed his eyes, awaiting whatever torturous ritual would twist his mind. Instead, he felt the cold sharp pain of his dagger, plunged straight into his heart. He gasped as he keeled over.

The lone Prophet began to remove the heart of his still breathing victim. But there was only a moment's silence. Then came the last noble townsman, who had also heard USCDiver's claim and figured he could make camp and perhaps prevent his demise. He had only just passed out, perhaps explaining the Prophet's belated maneuver, and was awoken by USCDiver's blood-gurgling gasps. He knew he was on his own, with ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies far outside of town, at the monestary and so he tackled him to the ground.

It was some time later, just as the sun was rising, when ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies finally made her appearance. To her dismay, she found USCDiver dead, and Queuing and Kyrie Eleison exhausted, their clothing tattered, and each smeared in the blood of that Night's victim. She sighed, for surely one of these two men was noble, but the other was the Prophet; how could she possibly discern the two after this tussle?

USCDiver, a Citizen, has been sacrificed.

-------------------------------------------------

Since this is obviously the last Day, I'm going to go ahead and give you all more time, and say the Day ends at 1:00 PM on Friday. Because of this, there will NOT be an extension if there is a tie at that time. Also, when someone receives two votes I will give a 24 hour count down instead of 12 just to try and make sure everyone is aware. Enjoy! :D

NAF1138
09-10-2007, 01:12 PM
go Team Sekham!!!

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 01:13 PM
Fracking hell. One of you is just flat out sadistic. Do your girlfriends/wives know that you toy with lesbians online?

USCDiver
09-10-2007, 01:13 PM
So CLOSE!!! Good Luck with your decision Cookies!!

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 01:16 PM
Perhaps I can turn the tables and give you both homework assignments. In 300 words or less, convince me to kill the other. :D

DiggitCamara
09-10-2007, 01:18 PM
Fracking hell. One of you is just flat out sadistic. Do your girlfriends/wives know that you toy with lesbians online?
[ghostly taunting]
See? I told you history repeats itself!

And now, your Charlie Brown moment! Hee hee
[/ghostly taunting]

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-10-2007, 01:19 PM
Chooooose wiiiisellllyyyyyy...

MooOOooooo...

--FCOD

Kyrie Eleison
09-10-2007, 01:26 PM
At least the end is in sight; I'll get started on my 300-word essay. In the meantime, Vote: Queuing.

Good luck, Cookies.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 01:32 PM
I'm going to my happy place for awhile, which is in front of a big HD tv to watch Firefly and get in the spirit for M6. I'm actually home from work feeling kinda crappy.

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 01:32 PM
Fracking hell. One of you is just flat out sadistic. Do your girlfriends/wives know that you toy with lesbians online?

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that guys liked to toy with lesbians online. Of course, it's generally not with their minds they're toying. :D

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 01:34 PM
I'm just going to have to call you "The Voyeur" from now on, BLaM.

dotchan
09-10-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm going to my happy place for awhile, which is in front of a big HD tv to watch Firefly and get in the spirit for M6. I'm actually home from work feeling kinda crappy.

...technically, Asylum Lane (Mr. "OMG I SWEAR I'M INNOCENT!" Idle Thoughts' game) was M6. Firefly is M7.

NAF1138
09-10-2007, 01:52 PM
...technically, Asylum Lane (Mr. "OMG I SWEAR I'M INNOCENT!" Idle Thoughts' game) was M6. Firefly is M7.

And this confusion about numbering is why you will note the game is acutally titled "Firefly Mafia"

Queuing
09-10-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't have time right now to try to convince you of Kyrie's evilness. I just want to lay out some of the odd things in this game.

IMO there are 2 really very odd nights that are so far unexplained. Night 6 and night 9 (I believe, the second no kill night). We can eliminate the idea of a recruitment happening as it is quite obvious that is not the case. This leaves us with only 1 option for the those 2 nights; a block was performed either by the priest, disciple or miller. Ok, there is chance that the cult chose to do nothing but I don't believe that one little bit.

I ask you to think about what we know about those 2 nights. Night 6 we have a miller block on Kyrie. Night 9 we have our disciple coming out POSITIVE that the she was able to block the night action. There is only one way she could have been so positive; she used her special one night powers to protect 2 people. This means on night 6 Fretful did NOT use her protect all power. Beyond this it is I impossible at this time to know what Fretful did that night.

Did she self-protect? If she did self-protect why not self-protect the next night? Doesn't it make sense that she would have self-protected again if she believed there had been an attempt on her life? At that time the believers were in dire shape, another no-kill night would have given the town a chance to catch up some. But she died night 7. So that means, in my mind, she didn't self protect. She chose to protect someone else that night. Who it was we don't know, however she might have chosen to protect them again night 7 hoping the scum would try again. This then turns into a WIFOM, however what it boils down to is that is more likely then not that fretful did NOT self protect that night.

This leaves us with one other option; that the disciple was successful that night. TBH I don't recall if catina ever told us who she protected that night, however I seem to recal that she self-protected often. I could be wrong about this.

So that is 4 options of what happened night 6:

1) The cult did nothing - yay right.
2) The priest self-protected one night and didn't the next
3) the disciple protected effectively
4) the miller block actually worked.

I admit the chances of 4 actually happening are as slim as 3 having happened. Just slightly more likely then Fretful self-protecting and then not.

However, you are down to a choice between myself and Kyrie. The actual gameplay interaction between our roles in this game are starkly different

I have not been blocked. I have been investigated.

Kyrie has been blocked. Nothing happened that night. (s)he has been investigated.

How can we just dismiss the role of the miller?

Queuing
09-10-2007, 02:09 PM
Well ok, I guess I did have time. I meant I didn't have time to look at both Kyrie's and Clockwork's posts.

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 02:21 PM
I'm just going to have to call you "The Voyeur" from now on, BLaM.

Now, now... I was not stating that I partake in said activities. Rather, I was simply pointing out the stereotype. And now I'm labeled as some kind of pervert. I'm hurt, truly hurt. :(

Queuing
09-10-2007, 04:05 PM
Personally I am dieing to read the forbidden thread. If there are no spoilers in there I am really curious who they think is the prophet.

Kyrie Eleison
09-10-2007, 05:06 PM
Queuing used 428 words. Is he disqualified? ;)

So that is 4 options of what happened night 6:

1) The cult did nothing - yay right.
2) The priest self-protected one night and didn't the next
3) the disciple protected effectively
4) the miller block actually worked.

(much deleted)

How can we just dismiss the role of the miller?
That same miller said: (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8876023&postcount=2882)
As far as the recruit goes...I'm not it. I don't think there was one. I think they may have tried to recruit Fretful Porpentine, failed, and killed her the next night.A possibility which Queuing neglected to include in his list, and which would explain how they may have identified the Priest and also the obviously missing recruit.

Yesterday, USCDiver and I both had Queuing at the top of our suspect lists. Thinking there were two scum, and seeing that Cookies had already voted for FCoD, I cast my vote for him. USCDiver then voted for Queuing, and FCoD changed his vote from me to Queuing to tie it up. At that time, I could have changed my vote to Queuing, making it three votes for him, and almost certainly eliminating any possibility that I'd be dunked. If I were the Prophet, and Queuing town, why would I not have done so?

Queuing's dunk choices last night were:

USCDiver, who had voted for him the previous day,
myself, who had indicated my preference to vote for him, but against whom he's been building a case for days,
Cookies, who had declined to switch her vote from FCoD to Queuing.


I don't envy him his selection. If he kills Cookies, he leaves alive two people who have already indicated that they'll vote for him. If he kills me, he's basically got to start from scratch building a case against USCDiver for Cookies, and yesterday, he complained about his perception that USCDiver was trusted by Cookies. At least by killing USCDiver, he can be pretty sure he's getting rid of someone who would have voted for him, and he's got a shot at convincing you to vote for me.

But consider my choices, if I were scum. Do you really think that I would kill someone who had only yesterday invited me to join with him in voting against Queuing? Someone who only yesterday said:
There is some compelling evidence that Kyrie is not one of the original Cultists/Prophet. He had an end of Day vote on Kat in BOTH Day 1 and Day 2. This would be incredibly foolish for the Prophet (it was risky enough for NAF1138 and Idle Thoughts).
I'm sure USCDiver didn't trust me completely, but I would bet that if it were he and I today, Queuing's toes would be wet already. And if I were scum, I could have made that happen.

Yes, you can argue that this is all WIFOM, but does that really make sense at this stage? Why would I have sacrificed USCDiver to influence you, Cookies, if I could already count on USCDiver, and could have eliminated whomever I pleased going into the last day? That's not giving up a bird in the hand for two in the bush, it's giving up one in the hand for one in the bush!


(423 words, discounting quoted material, so we're both over.)

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 06:31 PM
In Queuing's list of Night 6 possibilities:

2) The priest self-protected one night and didn't the next

Kyrie's quote of Hockey:

I think they may have tried to recruit Fretful Porpentine, failed, and killed her the next night.

It isn't like Queuing forgot it in his list completely, but a case can be made for downplaying it. Both of these statements say virtually the same thing, Hockey just took the pondering a little farther.

As much as I was eager to run with the circumstantial evidence against Kyrie back when MonkGate was in full swing, my motive was to rally the town to try and sniff out the Prophet, not a deathwish on Kyrie.

Hockey had a 1/n chance of successfully blocking her target on night 6, but what are the chances that her target would actually be on either side of a blockable action? Too slim for my tastes.

Queuing hasn't voted yet. Is the game over as soon as I vote?

Vote Queuing

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 06:53 PM
Queuing hasn't voted yet. Is the game over as soon as I vote?

Vote Queuing

No, but I will initate a 24-hour count down from now, so say 7:00 PM EDT tomorrow unless one of you two (basically you) decide to withdraw and change your vote.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 06:54 PM
Can I just sit here with my fingers in my ears for 24 hours?

Lalalalalalalalalala

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 07:08 PM
Can I just sit here with my fingers in my ears for 24 hours?

Lalalalalalalalalala

I just didn't expect a decision so quickly as I'm sure you could tell from my Dawn post. But you can do that if you want.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 07:15 PM
I may be despised for it later, but I want.

I'm beyond saturated with this game, and I feel good about my choice, at least right now. If you and the remaining players feel that it is unfair of me to come to a decision so quickly, I'll certianly still read what ever else is said and try to stuff whatever remaining nuances I may have missed into my perceptions.

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 07:35 PM
I may be despised for it later, but I want.

I'm beyond saturated with this game, and I feel good about my choice, at least right now. If you and the remaining players feel that it is unfair of me to come to a decision so quickly, I'll certianly still read what ever else is said and try to stuff whatever remaining nuances I may have missed into my perceptions.

Please don't read it as a condonation or condemnation of your vote. My intention of the 24-hour countdown at dawn was to allow the votee a chance to argue his innocence because otherwise, any points you make in your voting post could not be retorted, and I'd hate for the game to end on a technicality.

Blaster Master
09-10-2007, 07:38 PM
NETA: Since I'm probably going to miss the edit window. If you'd really rather end it now, I'm fine ending the game, I just won't have time to draft the game end post until sometime tomorrow anyway.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Yeah that's cool. Retort/refine/water torture away, y'all. :p

If you can dish it, I can digest it.

Og never gives you more than you can handle.

What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 08:29 PM
Sure, end the game. I didn't think I had much chance anyway. Cookies had already decided that I was scum. This was of course the real reason Kyrie killed USC Diver. So (s)he could do that whole why would I kill that person defense? It was a well played plan Kyrie, congratulations.

Cookie it sucks when it is up to you to decide the game and you did so incorrectly. Trust me I know.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 08:33 PM
As far as Kyrie's quote of hockey. I did address that very clearly. You happen to think that Fretful is stupid enough to have self-protected one night, the night result in a no-kill and then not self-protect again. I do not think Fretful is that stupid. In no way did I downplay this.

It went bad at monkgate, and in a severe case of "I told you so" that is also when the believers began to discount anything I said. I remind you all - when you are town never do what the scum want you to. Stupid inability to kill you Kyrie!

Queuing
09-10-2007, 08:41 PM
Hockey had a 1/n chance of successfully blocking her target on night 6, but what are the chances that her target would actually be on either side of a blockable action? Too slim for my tastes.


Sigh, I can't give up. We know that she blocked Kyrie. Sure it was 1/n chance. However there is a 50/50 chance that Kyrie is the prophet. So we know the odds of her being on one of those sides.

I ask you: what do you think happened that night? You TRULY believe that Fretful self-protected one night and then for some inexplicable reason she choose not to the next night? Also that the scum, being blocked trying to kill X then went after X again? Why do that? They would *think* they know who the priest was. The priest would be scared they were found out and the only action reasonable action after that is for the priest to self-protect. Yet you are willing to risk the game on the assumption that Fretful was to stupid to do this?

I ask you: you are the priest. You self-protect. The night ends with no-kill. What would YOU do the next night?

Queuing
09-10-2007, 08:46 PM
Then ask yourself as scum. You are blocked one night while trying to kill X. Sure you may have been blocked by the miller (Ha! 1/n chance, who would believe that would happen?) but chances are you found the priest. What is the most important thing for the scum to find out in the game? Who the power roles are. How dangerous is the priest once s/he is known? Not very. Sure they can stop a kill but they can't find scum. Once the inevitable unveiling of an investigative role happens chances are the priest will stop self-protecting and BAM dead priest.

So ask yourself 2 questions:

I am the priest. I self protected on a no-kill night. What do I do the next night?

I am scum. A kill that should have happened didn't. A found priest? A miller block? What do you do the next night?

Don't listen to either of our arguments about each other. One of us is lieing. Listen to yourself. Ask yourself what would cookies have done that night 6?

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-10-2007, 08:53 PM
Come on Queuing...you know you want to...

--FCOD

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 08:55 PM
I'm having one of my famous :smack: moments.

When looking back at Night 6 I've done a crappy job of taking my new information back with me.

On Night 6, if I'd self-protected, I honestly can't say what I would've done the next night if there happened to have been a no-kill. I certainly wouldn't rule out protecting someone else, but maybe that's because I suck. Either way, that argument doesn't do anything for me.

The 50/50 chance that I have not been keeping foremost in my mind when thinking about Night 6 on the other hand...that one smarts.

Maybe I should just flip a coin at this point, but for all I know, BLaM has already honored the plea to put us all out of our misery.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 09:04 PM
Ok, fine, maybe the priest wouldn't have self protected the next night.

What about the 2nd question?

What would you do if your kill didn't happen? Go for the same person? Think you knew something now? If the latter, how dangerous is what you know? I am assuming that you agree with the knowledge you would have (that the person you killed was the priest?). Really how dangerous is the priest, once know to scum?

Queuing
09-10-2007, 09:18 PM
On Night 6, if I'd self-protected, I honestly can't say what I would've done the next night if there happened to have been a no-kill.

Even if that argument does nothing for you. I am not asking you to deal in certainties. I am asking you to sit down and think about how you would have played a role that you don't have. I realize this is a lot to ask, as it means looking at the game from a completely different view point. I am asking you not to be certain about anything. There is only 1 thing you can be certain about:

What ever name you put in blue wins the game for 1 side.

So I am asking you what is more LIKELY. Of course you can't rule out protecting someone. When that wine is in front of you it is hard not to take a sip. I am asking you to think about what you would do if you were the priest, you self-protected. Chances are (because remember that whole 1/n thing is basically no chance, and not good enough odds to worry about) the no-kill was because of your direct action. So know you think "the scum know I am the priest now. That means they will go after me again as they want me dead. Or will they? I too know that they know who I am so I can now protect someone else <remembering that only 2 people had claimed, me as a lowly vanilla and hockey monkey, thanks Kyrie ;)>and maybe block them 2 times. Of course the person who I protect might be scum which would suck, but hey they could be any other of the good power roles too. Of course the scum know that I know that they know that I am the priest and may assume that I am going to protect someone else, so I must protect myself"

And so forth.

The other thing you should be asking yourself is: When and how is the priest/doctor role most useful to town?

I would say it is most important when a very important town role is known and in trouble. IMO the most important town roles are investigative roles. This is when a doctor/priest should risk sacrificing themselves. Or do you think the priest plays a more important role at a different point in the game?

The WIFOM game should only be played by the priest once they are revealed to teh scum (however that happens) and an investigative role is also revealed IMO.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 09:21 PM
Damn you went blue.

Sigh.

Can I rescind the whole end the game thing? Give cookies the 24 hours to think not about what Kyrie and I say about each other. Instead think about Night 6, what happened, and why. Think about what you would do in the shoes of the roles that play a part in that night. Remember only 2 people had claimed by that time - I was a vanilla citizen, Hockey Monkey as the miller.

Kyrie Eleison
09-10-2007, 09:32 PM
In Queuing's list of Night 6 possibilities:

It isn't like Queuing forgot it in his list completely, but a case can be made for downplaying it. Both of these statements say virtually the same thing, Hockey just took the pondering a little farther.

Cookies, you're being misled. Fretful Porpentine didn't have to self-protect that night. The Priest role is immune from recruitment.

More generally, what Queuing left out of his list is the possibility that the cult tried and failed to recruit an unrecruitable player. That's what I was trying to get at, and I'm pretty sure it's what Hockey meant too.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 09:42 PM
Cookies, you're being misled. Fretful Porpentine didn't have to self-protect that night. The Priest role is immune from recruitment.

So on night 6, against all accepted play, the scum tried to recruit? This is what you think happened on night 6 Cookies?

I am not trying to misled you. I am asking you to think about night 6. Think about what is most likely to have happened based on the information we have. The information we have about night 6 is as follows:

No one died
No one was recruited
Kyrie was blocked by the miller.

This is it. Those 3 pieces of information are all we have. Around those 3 we have the following actors:

A priest
A miller
A disciple
A prophet.

Those are the 4 roles that could have an effect on Night 6. Keeping in mind Night 7 the priest was killed. Manipulate those 3 pieces of information with those 4 actors and the following possibilities:

A priest successful protect
A disciple successful protect
scum fucking with us
A successful Miller block
An unsuccessful scum recruitment.

Think about those please.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-10-2007, 09:43 PM
The Priest's protection works against other things besides the recruitment and I don't read that much inference into Hockey's statement.

Queuing
09-10-2007, 10:25 PM
I suppose I should do this. It seems very familiar.

Lynch Kyrie "prophet" Eleison

Kyrie Eleison
09-10-2007, 10:42 PM
The Priest's protection works against other things besides the recruitment and I don't read that much inference into Hockey's statement.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, or even if this was addressed to me, but the last thing I want is to get into a pointless argument with you now. I think you mean that it's possible Hockey's hypothesis was incorrect, and that Fretful may have simply been the night-kill target rather than a recruit target. I don't disagree with that. I wasn't asserting that Hockey was correct, just that Queuing had not included the possibility that she had pointed out. I chose to quote her only because it was her observation, and she deserved the credit for it.

I will confess that the fact that Queuing left it out makes me wonder if it might be the true explanation. We can be almost certain that there was a failed recruitment, and it could only have happened on one of two nights.

I know it's little consolation coming from me right now, but you've made the right choice. I'm not as worried about anything Queuing can say as I am that you'll suffer from buyer's remorse between now and tomorrow evening. This 24-hour delay is quite frustrating; regardless of the outcome, I'm going to be happy when this game is over.

Queuing
09-11-2007, 09:58 AM
So cookies any change of heart? If not, then with BM on as well, we might as well end it.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-11-2007, 10:09 AM
I'm in the process of some re-reading.

Unvote Queuing

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-11-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm back at work today, but still not feeling 100%. I may very well end up needing most of the time to re-hash things yet again. As soon as I open my work email, I can very well get sucked in until I get home around 4pm Pacific.

Queuing
09-11-2007, 10:34 AM
No pressure Cookies. Its only the game :). I am assuming with the unvote that the clock has stopped and you have until Friday 1pm EDT.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-11-2007, 10:38 AM
I highly doubt I'll take until Friday, though today I do find it very tempting to keep everyone here in Hell with me for as long as possible.

Blaster Master
09-11-2007, 11:35 AM
No pressure Cookies. Its only the game :). I am assuming with the unvote that the clock has stopped and you have until Friday 1pm EDT.

Yes, the countdown has stopped. It will restart when she revotes.

Queuing
09-11-2007, 04:52 PM
I highly doubt I'll take until Friday, though today I do find it very tempting to keep everyone here in Hell with me for as long as possible.

Hehe. I would just like to say that even though my decision is made I am in hell with you already. I don't want to have played another game of Mafia all the way to the damn end (which must mean something) and lose again :).

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-11-2007, 10:24 PM
I'm trying to give my head a rest from the metric assload of data contained in this thread. I'm also distracting myself a bit with the Firefly game, but I think that is healthy. I don't want to burn out on this game, as I fear I came close to doing yesterday. I promise to vote within a day or so, with the benefit of refreshed eyes, hopefully.

Kyrie Eleison
09-12-2007, 02:31 AM
It's so weird to check this thread, and not find pages of posts to have to catch up on. It feels sort of like a stadium after the crowds have left.

Queuing
09-12-2007, 01:30 PM
Who wants to go to page 2? I am sure Cookies doesn't! :)

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-12-2007, 03:48 PM
I'm still in mid-crawl, but I'm sharing my notes so far. Going in reverse chronological order, here is my case (so far) against Kyrie:



Pretty much anything said by Clockwork.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8724215&postcount=531

WIFOM smokescreen regarding bandwagons + obvious attention to Hal’s potentially infamous “Yo, Oracle! Over here!”

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8729230&postcount=707

I don’t know when the clarification took place, but BLaM clarified that all powers were lost upon recruitment.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8730092&postcount=750

I eventually backed down a bit, but my gut was backed-up by a preceding vote from my fellow monk, Zeriel (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8729372&postcount=717).

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8730592&postcount=771

one of the responses that deflated the stringency of my case (and assumedly contributed to talking Zeriel out of voting for him) .

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8730600&postcount=772

Idle potentially running interference for Kyrie, against both Zeriel and Scuba Ben.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8731259&postcount=818 & http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8731286&postcount=819

More on the path to the deflated case. Ironically, Diggit and I may have very well been onto more than we’d realized.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8731417&postcount=822

Idle’s counterpoint to Kyrie’s earlier views on bandwagoning. A convenient and safe issue with which to distinguish themselves as differing?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8731794&postcount=831

More fodder for the case against him sputtering, with yet another intersection with Idle.

Multi-post exchange involving Kyrie, NAF, BLaM and Queuing: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8739258#post8739258, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8739289&postcount=1001,
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8739294&postcount=1002,
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8739438&postcount=1007,
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8741796&postcount=1050

Who would try and potentially exploit color? Starts with a C, and ends in an ult.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8741898&postcount=1052

Seemingly “out of character” fluffy ping to Idle.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-12-2007, 06:45 PM
A couple more. This afternoon did not allow me much time to play, but I'm on my way home and will continue.

And yes, I'm doing the same thing for Queuing.

Case against Kyrie continued...

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8769788&postcount=1470

The last post in a short series involving allegations of perfect knowledge going back and forth between NAF and Zeriel, and which reads as a defense of NAF in hindsight.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8771177&postcount=1498 & http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8776230&postcount=1567

This exchange with Hazelnut resonates with me, considering how Kyrie was able to similarly divert the wind from my sails when attempting to suspect him. As such, it seems worth noting. And guess what…it indirectly involves Idle. :D

Queuing
09-12-2007, 10:14 PM
I must say Cookies, regardless of what name you end up putting down, cheers to you for the amount of work you are putting into it. Kyrie and I are lucky. We know the truth and have nothing to do but wait :).

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-12-2007, 10:48 PM
If anyone is actually trying to read this mess, be forewarned that I've gotten a bit sloppy as to putting the links/comments in the right order. It made sense to me when I made the notes, and that's all that matters. At some point I also stopped trying to be diplomatic in how I paraphrased things, and just assume that Kyrie is scum in how I interpreted everything that he said & some things said about/around him.

I also pay particular attention to interaction (be it direct or indirect) with now-known scum.

I'll endeavor to wear the same filters once I get around to Queuing.

But first, more evidence against Kyrie...

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8777278&postcount=1589, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8777530&postcount=1592, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8777587&postcount=1596

Deflating exchange with Hazelnut continued…

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8792174&postcount=1807

Potential “mooning” of Hal on his way to that big nacho plate in the sky.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8800309&postcount=2008, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8800398&postcount=2012

Interesting Crusader exchange between Kyrie and Diggit. At this point in the review, Diggit got the last word, which I also find interesting.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8812484&postcount=2148

Diffusing of sachertorte’s desire to examine AZTeach’s meltdown more closely.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8812772&postcount=2150

Zeriel zinger, followed immediately by http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8812812&postcount=2151

In which he stirs up an old issue between Zeriel and NAF.

Which continues in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815575&postcount=2189, and http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815586&postcount=2190

What strikes me about this exchange, is that by re-stating NAF’s argument, even though he’s trying to poke holes in NAF’s logic, when I read them over I come away with more (negative) things about Zeriel than I do about NAF, who then puts a cherry on top of it all with http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815631&postcount=2191, and the exchange fizzles to a close with http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815739&postcount=2194, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815739&postcount=2195, and http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8815739&postcount=2196

Down the page a few inches, NAF picks the case up against Zeriel again, but this time Kyrie stays out of it.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8821105&postcount=2306

Becomes “Keeper of the posting summaries”

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8821181&postcount=2307, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8821553&postcount=2310,

Though it was (allegedly) a mistake between Zeriel and Queuing, both of these posts are interesting regardless of which player you inject into this post, where Idle risks exalting fellow scum NAF and Kyrie as giving him a townie feel because he’s also extending the same exaltation to one actual townie.

Kyrie runs with the mistake, and takes the opportunity to sling some mud at me with http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8821771#post8821771

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8823273&postcount=2329

This vote for fluiddruid comes blazing out of freaking nowhere, but while I don’t recall noticing that at the time, fluid certainly did.

Kyrie. Well, I'm sure it sounds utterly selfish, but this vote for me made me look back a little bit. To summarize: Kyrie started bringing me up, in response to the "optimal scum strategy" discussion started by NAF in post 1152, then in 1172 , then again later in post 1582 (not accusatory, but again mentioning the strategy). Curious that a concrete vote only comes out now, due the relative weakness of those posts and the lack of any concrete concern until post 2329:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrie Eleison
If someone tells you that you ought to find them scummy, at some point, you probably should. Vote fluiddruid.


The question is, why now? Why late in the Day? It seems to me that this vote is on the relatively easiest target other than Captain Klutz, and for reasons that never seemed to alarm ... until now. This looks like either scum trying to avoid a vote for a known townie or scum trying to swing the vote towards a vote leader. I'm voting for the second, but either way, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to bring this up now. Maybe there's more to it, but that's the whole of the post we have. Bringing up my name earlier looks to me now like seeding... not really wanting to come down on one side or the other of the argument yet, but wanting to get my name out there as "suspicious". Certainly Kyrie never voted for me before, but yet this evidence has not changed, and indeed my frequency of posting has changed -- but this isn't mentioned (though arguably cases could be made either way).

And then http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8824077&postcount=2345

To which Kyrie responded with http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8824416&postcount=2350

The fallout of Captain Klutz’s death and the tet a tet between Kyrie and fluiddruid had some interesting consequences:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831102&postcount=2401, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831153&postcount=2403, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831174&postcount=2405, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831193&postcount=2406, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831320&postcount=2411, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831334&postcount=2413

Then Pygmy decides that the light is now green to safely jump on the building bandwagon against his Prophet in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831354&postcount=2414 and http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831354&postcount=2415, though he unvotes him later in the same page of the thread.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831459&postcount=2420

Diggit continues his case against Kyrie when asked for clarification by NAF.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8832036&postcount=2434

Idle goes after the Kyrie-voting Diggit

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8832062&postcount=2437 & http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8832186&postcount=2445

Kyrie vs Diggit

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8839859&postcount=2518

Eventually (possibly even Days later, can you tell I’m getting tired of this little exercise?) Kyrie retaliates with a vote against Diggit, and FOS towards Idle, alluding to them being in possible collusion.

In case I’m complete catatonic when putting together my Queuing case, I’m noting a few particular posts here, since it absolves Queuing and implicates Kyrie, and that is http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8839051&postcount=2502 and http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8839948&postcount=2521. To rail against a fellow scum in such a manner would be a huge gamble.

Queuing
09-12-2007, 11:16 PM
If it makes you feel any better, I am reading it.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 12:12 AM
Kyrie's closing chapter:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8840418&postcount=2525

With Idle being scum and only three of us left, there’s really no way to read this post without it being damning to Kyrie.

Begin interlude

I’m skipping a lot more of the Idle/Diggit/Kyrie sandwich exchanges. Suffice it to say, they all look bad for Kyrie.

Eventually Kyrie and Idle realize they’re pretty much the only ones railing on Diggit, so they pack up the act.

End interlude

THE ERA OF MONKGATE…

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8900201&postcount=3356

Full exploitation of the distraction.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8901254&postcount=3388

sachertorte could be a recruited apprentice & other mud in the water

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8902457&postcount=3430

Instead of weighing in on Monkgate or retaliating against Queuing and I in our attempt to look for the Prophet, he lays down a diversion vote for NAF. Hockey tells him what she thinks of that in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8902585&postcount=3434

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8902701&postcount=3443

Pygmy reminds Hockey that she’s been wrong before.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8902677&postcount=3440

I actually remember doing a double take on this post. Why so protective of FCoD? Then I remembered the “Believer” reading, but still it seemed like an arbitrary demonstration of a lot of faith in FCoD. But now in hindsight, Kyrie had every reason to keep FCoD (an established Prophet candidate) alive as long as possible.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8903663#post8903663

If the recruitment hadn’t already been wasted (but I believe it had been) perhaps the time spent wondering if the Prophet would be killed by the Avatar would come close to pain and torment of the game-ending cross that I currently carry. But then, if the recruitment was still available to him at this time, I highly doubt Kyrie would be voting for any of his brethren.


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8913555&postcount=3643

Kyrie says “Kill zuma now, and distract yourselves from the Prophet Hunt.”

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8913871&postcount=3648

Pygmy says “Naw. Let’s keep Zuma alive, so that we can debate what we should do with him instead of looking for the Prophet.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8915538&postcount=3675

Sewing confusion

My mind is very much wandering now, and since this is recent now, I’m feeling less inclined to re-read.

Thus ends the case against Kyrie.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 12:24 AM
Ok, so I'm a liar.

I'm not going to run through this excercise for Queuing. A) I'm not physically or mentally capable of doing so. B) I don't need to because there is no way in hell he's going go come back any scummier than Kyrie has.

Vote Kyrie

I apologize for any heart-attacks or fist-pumping I may have caused (or may currently be causing) in my unwilling participation in this decision. :p

And I'm really really really...really glad I decided to do Kyrie first.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 12:26 AM
Now someone come in here all official like so we can get on with our lives, pretty please. :D

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 12:47 AM
Maybe the official Someone is sleeping. That'd be my luck.

Unofficial hauntings?

Anyone?

Hello?

YOU CAN'T LEAVE ME IN HERE WITH THESE TWO!!!!!!1111!!!!

USCDiver
09-13-2007, 01:08 AM
[oooOOOOoooo]You're a better player in the end game than I would have been. No way I was going to do that in depth of an analysis of anyone going back that far....[oooOOOooo]

CatInASuit
09-13-2007, 01:11 AM
<Voice of Disciple>

I'm listening. That is an impressive amount of work given the sheer number of pages you will have to have trawled through.

</Voice of Disciple>

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 01:28 AM
I really didn't know what the hell I was going to do, but once I started going it seemed to sufficiently fall into place.

It was quite odd skimming back through the whole bit about losing my cat. That seems like ages ago, even though I still have dreams that he just shows back up in the house. :(

Remind me to order everyone over in Firefly that there will be no deaths of friends or loved ones or lost pets allowed. We've reached our quota of bad news in these games.

CatInASuit
09-13-2007, 01:45 AM
Now all we need is Blaster Master to show up and finally bring this game to a close.

If anyone sees him, kick him this way.

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-13-2007, 08:48 AM
I must say, I am very impressed with the amount of effort you put in to attempt to make a decision. Well done! Now, where is the Master of Blaster to put an end to this hell?

--FCOD

Hockey Monkey
09-13-2007, 09:19 AM
Cookies, you put forth much more effort that I would have at this stage. Kudos to you!


Oh, <haunt>OOOohhhhhoOOOOOhhhhhooooooooOOOOOO</haunt>

Blaster Master
09-13-2007, 09:42 AM
Ok, so I'm a liar.

I'm not going to run through this excercise for Queuing. A) I'm not physically or mentally capable of doing so. B) I don't need to because there is no way in hell he's going go come back any scummier than Kyrie has.

Vote Kyrie

I apologize for any heart-attacks or fist-pumping I may have caused (or may currently be causing) in my unwilling participation in this decision. :p

And I'm really really really...really glad I decided to do Kyrie first.

{Size Reduced}

Okie dokie. 24 hours from the vote, so 12:30 AM Friday morning.

Hockey Monkey
09-13-2007, 10:24 AM
Agh, don't make us wait!

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 10:46 AM
Kyrie Eleison - ?
Queuing - ?

Town(19)
zuma [Ver. 1]
storyteller0910
DiggitCamara [Ver. 1]
Scuba_Ben
Hal Briston
MadTheSwine
SnakesCatLady
Hazelnutcoffee
fluiddruid
Fretful Porpentine
DiggitCamara [Ver. 2]
Zeriel
sachetorte
CatinaSuit
Pleonast
MHaye
FlyingCowOfDoom
USCDiver
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

Non-believer(4)
Mtgman
amrussell
Captain Klutz
Hockey Monkey

Cult(6)
Kat
Idle Thoughts
zuma [Ver. 2] - Avatar
NAF
Pygmy Rugger
NAF1138

That Non-Believer list sure is short. I've got a sinking feeling that I just completely wasted a few days of my life, despite a possible hint from Queuing that I'd already lost:

How can we just dismiss the role of the miller?

Non-believers

Alchemist (Miller + Role-Blocker) – May prevent night actions of one player each night, but fails 25% of the time. If a cultist is targeted, the cult's sacrifice is stopped with probability 1/n, n=number of cultists alive at the beginning of the night. Power lost if converted. Investigates as “Non-Believer”.

Non-Believer (Miller) - No special power. Investigates as “Non-Believer”.

Psychopath (Serial Killer) - A simple Non-Believer until targeted in the night by the cultists or the crusader. If so targeted, he must kill a target night and a new win condition will apply (see below). Investigates as “Non-Believer” if un-activated; investigates as “Psychopath” if activated.

...

The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.

If Queuing is indeed a Non-Believer and I were to unvote and abstain, maybe I could force a three-way tie? But then Kyrie could just kill me ToNight and win...

I could unvote and flip a coin or three just prior to the deadline tomorrow, fulfill my fate as but a pawn in the game of life, and wash my hands of it all, not giving a flying frak as to the outcome. Hmmm. Very tempting...

Queuing
09-13-2007, 11:47 AM
If Queuing is indeed a Non-Believer and I were to unvote and abstain, maybe I could force a three-way tie? But then Kyrie could just kill me ToNight and win...

I could unvote and flip a coin or three just prior to the deadline tomorrow, fulfill my fate as but a pawn in the game of life, and wash my hands of it all, not giving a flying frak as to the outcome. Hmmm. Very tempting...

Sure you could flip a coin. However you know seem very confident in your analysis that Kyrie is the prophet. You are correct by the way. (S)He is the prophet. I am a believer I assure you. Keep your vote the way it is and we will win together.

Kyrie Eleison
09-13-2007, 12:28 PM
I think it's telling that Queuing has managed to direct the conversation away from the obvious, and toward a tangent that suits him. I think he's better at this than I, and if the cult wins, it will be well-deserved, and well-played.

It seems obvious to me that we wouldn't be here now if USCDiver hadn't been killed last night, and Queuing has yet to offer any explanation for that, other than suggesting that it was done to frame him. That just doesn't make sense to me; it would be unnecessary to "frame" him if last night's kill had been any different. There would be no need for all of this convolution; sometimes, it really is the wine in front of you.

I can offer a litany of other evidence, but I'm not sure that would be helpful at this point.

You decided that I'm scum, and then went back and read my posts with that in mind. With a prejudiced reading, it's little surprise that you were able to find what you wanted to find.

I had been inclined to keep quiet while you reviewed the thread, but now I've taken the liberty of reviewing Queuing's posts. The size of that font would seem to imply that it was pointless to do so, but if you won't review them, I hope that you'll at least consider some of what I consider to be the highlights:

Day One

Queuing promoted the idea that the Apprentice should shout out the name of the Oracle, even knowing that this scheme would lead to the nearly immediate death of the Apprentice if the Oracle were killed (cite) (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8724887&postcount=551).

Then he recanted his support, and voted for DiggitCamara in part for proposing it (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8727810&postcount=670)).

Day Four

Tells us that we can expect him to vote for town. (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8791050&postcount=1780))

Day Five

Has a "sneaking suspicion that Zeriel and NAF are both believers" (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8817183&postcount=2231)).

Votes for Zeriel, 15 posts later. (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8818887&postcount=2246)).

Day Six
Tells us why the cult killed HazelNutCoffee (thought she was the apprentice) (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8831032&postcount=2395)).

Day Eight

Proposes that only suspicious people (Hockey Monkey, initially,) should vote, to reduce risk from avatar (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8878263&postcount=2917)).

Tries to get Pleonast to reveal his role, and CatinaSuit to reveal whether the "protect all" power has been used. (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8899590&postcount=3313), reiterated (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8899890&postcount=3333), and again (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8900784&postcount=3366)).

Supports Idle and Zuma in monkgate, despite Zuma's aborted "drunken" accusation of MHaye (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8900021&postcount=3346)).

Continues to support Idle/Zuma in the face of opposition from 3 claimed power roles (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8901134&postcount=3384)).

Suggests that MHaye, Cookies, and Sachertorte should vote for Idle, in case he's the avatar "to improve the chance that we get a scum." He's either suggesting that about-to-be-confirmed town vote for scum, or that scum vote for town, depending on which way the monk claims go. How does this do anything but put townies at risk to be killed? (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8903077&postcount=3470)).

Day Thirteen

Tells us he's not surprised that the cult picked MHaye (cite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8913270&postcount=3640)). Not surprising, as it was his choice. He even goes on to defend the choice as being the correct one.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 01:06 PM
It's not the size of the font, it is the motion of the head smashing against the desk. :D

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-13-2007, 01:47 PM
You decided that I'm scum, and then went back and read my posts with that in mind. With a prejudiced reading, it's little surprise that you were able to find what you wanted to find.

Um...no. I decided that the only way for me to make as informed of a decision that I could was to role-play both of you as scum, and see which one of you was most compelling in that role. I picked you first because in an effort (measly as it may have been) to alternate who was the most under my microscope, and Queuing had been there previously.

I assumed you were scum and used that filter while re-hashing most of what you had said and done in the game. At the end of that journey, I came to the conclusion that it was unlikely that my making the same assumption and grueling re-read with Queuing in the hot seat would result in a more compelling scum than you. Unlikely enough to vote. So I voted.

Scuba_Ben
09-13-2007, 08:02 PM
<Octopus (sea creature) swims up, pulls an octopus (scuba mouthpiece) out of its beak, speaks in a bass voice>

That's a heck of a good job of analysis, Cookies. I hope you're right.

<Octopus returns beneath the waves>

Blaster Master
09-14-2007, 12:01 AM
Hmm... looks like about 30 minutes left.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-14-2007, 12:20 AM
Thank Og.

Blaster Master
09-14-2007, 12:36 AM
Okie dokie. Sun is set.

Congratulations to... everyone. You're all winners in my book for playing such a great game. :p

Mtgman
09-14-2007, 12:47 AM
Okie dokie. Sun is set.

Congratulations to... everyone. You're all winners in my book for playing such a great game. :p
I've not haunted anyone so far this game, but if you're not back soon, I'll haunt you, you betcha.

Enjoy,
Steven

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-14-2007, 12:48 AM
:) :p :smack: :( :confused: :eek: :cool: :p ;) :rolleyes: :mad: :dubious: :) :confused: ;) :mad: :eek: :o :D :dubious: :) :cool: :rolleyes: :( :confused:

That about says it.

You've had FOREVAR to pen your game closing prose. Is your fiance there distracting you? I'd like to have a quick chat with her about your saphic voyeristic tendancies...

Blaster Master
09-14-2007, 01:00 AM
:) :p :smack: :( :confused: :eek: :cool: :p ;) :rolleyes: :mad: :dubious: :) :confused: ;) :mad: :eek: :o :D :dubious: :) :cool: :rolleyes: :( :confused:

That about says it.

You've had FOREVAR to pen your game closing prose. Is your fiance there distracting you? I'd like to have a quick chat with her about your saphic voyeristic tendancies...

Actually, she's not here. If she were, you wouldn't have heard from me tonight at all. :p

FWIW, I'm working on it, but I'd been planning as if your vote would remain on Kyrie (since that's where it last was) until I saw your vote change this morning, and work was a PITA today, so... yeah.

Anyway, it MUST have an epic ending, so I doubt I'll get it done tonight. :o But, I will forsake my work until it's done if it makes you feel any better. :D

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-14-2007, 01:07 AM
Um...my vote did remain on Kyrie.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-14-2007, 01:08 AM
The big blue one, about halfway up the page. You can't miss it. :p

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
09-14-2007, 01:55 AM
I'm calling it a night. If for some reason I do not awake in the morrow, Mr. Spaceman Spiff who has plenty of time for keystrokin' over in the Firefly game :p , I will haunt you until all the waiting to be cows come home.

Queuing
09-14-2007, 09:07 AM
I have to say to you Cookies, that the effort you put into the end game was incredible. To my thinking you know go down in the Dope Mafia History books as a player you don't mess with in End Game. Congratulations, and thank you.

Blaster Master
09-14-2007, 09:21 AM
Um...my vote did remain on Kyrie.
Bah... I meant Queuing. Do you really trust me to make sure I award the victory to the right team? :dubious:

Anyways, the Dusk post is coming up... :D

FlyingCowOfDoom
09-14-2007, 09:43 AM
GAHH!

--FCOD

Captain Klutz
09-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Waiting... Waiting...

Oh, and let's move the dusk to the top of the page