Mafia V: The Cult of Sekham

[Blaster Master]

At the beginning of time, a pair of deities, the god Sekham and the goddess Nairu, crafted the world. They began as partners, forming the sun and the Earth together. When Sekham created the land, Nairu created the sea. Slighted by being outdone, when Nairu created the sky, Sekham created the heavens. As either created, the other would create something more glorious, until all that is was. Though Sekham was angry, Nairu, in time, convinced him it would simply be better to part; Sekham would rule the West, and Nairu, the East.

Many centuries passed, and the people of the East flourished. They had civilization, technology, and art. The West, however, was a different story. They were plagued with tribal and feudal dispute, and only privy to the technology they'd managed to steal from the East. In all this time, Sekham's resentment grew until he could contain his wrath no longer. So he gathered his followers, raised an army, and thus began the great war of the ancients had begun.

In the end, Sekham's followers had been all but wiped out, and Nairu, in her fury, banished him deep beneath the very Earth he had created. His few surviving followers were ostracized and faded into forgotten history. In the coming millennia, her followers have spread and populated the whole of the Earth and peace has reigned since. At least, that's what they teach...

Recently, rumors have spread that a cult of Sekham's followers may have recently begun assembling in the village. Over the past several weeks, various citizens have found the burned carcasses of farm animals, apparently ritualistically sacrificed. Worst of all, this morning the high priest has been found slain; his heart and eyes carefully removed with a sharp knife, before having been set aflame. Panic spread through the village, and the people anxiously gathered in the temple to discuss how to deal with this threat.

Through many hours of debate and raised tempers, a decision is reached. Each day, after plenty of discussion, any who is thought to be a heretic shall be tried. Because Nairu created the water only one pure in her faith can be submersed in water that has been blessed by her priests. Anyone who should fail to be submersed must not be a man (or woman) of faith, and shall promptly be burned at the stake. Unfortunately, anyone who can be submersed will promptly drown. Clearly, it is not a perfect solution, but the town reluctantly agrees knowing that at least they will know the alignment of the dead, and still be able to give last rites to the faithful.

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[Please do not report this thread; I have received permission from SkipMagic to begin this thread]

[Blaster Master]

Believers

Citizen - You are hard working, going about the tasks that make the village run. And so while you may not be the most devout in your faith, you are nonetheless a follower of Nairu and the teachings of her priests. Each day, you will have one vote in the village gathering to attempt to route out the followers of Sekham. However, you still have your job and your family to attend to, thus you will not be able to discuss any repercussions during the night.

Priest - You are a renowned Nairu priest from a distant village and, thus, you don't expect you will be recognized by any of the citizens here. Upon hearing of the cult's presence, knowing that the problem will only spread, you have gathered your belongings and traveled here to do what you can to stop this menace dead in its tracks. During the day, you will hide among the citizenry and be able to cast a vote just as any of them; however, at night, you will be locked in prayer and unable to discuss any repercussions during the night. For your nightly prayer, you may choose any one citizen to bless (including yourself). This blessing will make him an unfit sacrifice to the god Sekham, and ward off any who should see fit to slay him; further, it will protect him from attacks on the mind by the prophet and keep him from being forcibly converted. Unfortunately, in your haste to depart, you only brought enough reagents to do one extremely powerful prayer that will protect ALL citizens from death and conversion; however, it is extremely draining, and you will be unable to perform any effective prayers on the following night. Because of your strong faith, an attempt by the prophet to convert you will fail.

Disciple - You are one of the countless pupils of the renowned priest. Upon hearing of his journey, you decided to follow him and aid him as best as you can. Thus, while you know his identity, you will not be recognized by him. During the day, you will hide yourself among the townsfolk and be able to vote like any of the rest of them; however, at night, you will be locked in prayer and unable to discuss any repercussions during the night. Unfortunately, you are not far along in your training, and thus your nightly devotions will sometimes fail to bless your target (50% of the time; if targeted more than once, 50% will apply to each killer’s success); however, you will always succeed in protecting your target from forced conversion by the prophet. If the priest has not used his reagents prior to his death, you will be able to obtain them and use them for a one time boost to allow you to bless any two individuals such that they will be unfit as a sacrifice to the god Sekham, or any intent of slaying him, and be unable to be recruited; however, it will exhaust you and you will be unable to perform any effective prayers on the following night. Because of your strong faith, an attempt by the prophet to convert you will fail.

Oracle - You are a practicer of a rare sect of the Nairu beliefs, as such your ability to see the motivations of others is rare and unknown outside of the dark corners of the land. You have grown accustomed to hiding in the shadows and thus, will easily pass yourself off as a regular citizen by day. At night, you will engage in a ritual that will allow you to see into the heart of one individual and determine if he is or is not a believer. Further, if he has dedicated his life to serving Nairu, you will learn the true depths of his faith. However, even your great power is outmatched by the prophet, and he will fool you into thinking he is a believer. If you are forcibly converted, because your mind has been twisted, you will no longer have the mental focus to perform your nightly rituals.

Apprentice - As a child, you once met the Oracle and he gave you wondrous insight into his sect. As such, you are aware of his identity, but he has long since forgotten about you. Inspired, you have spent many hours researching and studying the specific rituals of the sect and have learned some of the same powers that he possesses. Each night, you will have a chance (50%) of learning the beliefs of your target otherwise, because of your lack of skill, you may receive an incorrect reading of another player at random (i.e., the randomly selected from the actual distribution of roles). However, because you still have much to learn, you continue to seek the tutelage of the Oracle. If you are the target of one of the Oracle's rituals, you will become his student and on each night, including the night you are discovered, your accuracy will improve (+ 10%, up to 80%), as long as the Oracle lives. Upon the death of the Oracle (regardless of whether or not you were his student), you will be able to obtain his crystal ball; this will greatly improve your accuracy (+20%, No-Reading instead of False-Reading). If you are forcibly converted, because your mind has been twisted, you will no longer have the mental focus to perform your nightly rituals.

Monk - Since your youth, you have dedicated yourself to a life of humility, prayer, and a vow of silence and have lived your life at a monastery just outside the village. Upon learning the news of the cult, you have gathered with your fellow monks and decided that, due to this dire emergency, you must run to the town to assist. While you all are well aware of the faith of your brethren, because the monastery does not allow outsiders to enter, you will not be recognized by any of your fellow citizens. As such, you will be able to pass yourself as a regular citizen in the town; however, upon returning to the monastery each night, you must continue to observe your vow of silence. Because of your strong faith, an attempt by the prophet to convert you will fail.

Crusader - You are a quite the zealot and take the legends a bit too seriously. Until the arrival of the cult, you were concerned about the rumors of non-believers in your midst; now that the cultists are here, you see it as a full on assault of the faith. As such, you see it as your duty to take up arms and slay whomever you even think may not be a believer. At night, you will take your sword to his home to dispatch him. Sometimes (50%) you will lose your nerve and fail to kill. You need not kill every night, but you may not go two consecutive nights without attempting. If you have not attempted a kill on the previous night, because you spent the previous night dwelling on it, you will not lose your nerve. When all cultists have been uncovered, you will not be satisfied (i.e., unable to win) if you have not killed at least one non-believer (including pro-town) AND there are no non-believers remaining alive (including pro-town). If you are forcibly converted, because your mind has been twisted, you will lose your zeal and, thus, not be willing to continue in your night crusades.

Non-Believers

Alchemist - You were raised as a believer of Nairu but, having been lured by the specter of creating gold, you have since lost your faith. As such, upon hearing of the cultists, you fear that your head may roll with theirs because of the sudden fear of non-believers and, thus, must lay low. Though you are not fond of the methods being used by the town to discover the cultists, you do find them preferable to being a sacrificial lamb. Thus, during the day, you will attempt to pass yourself off as a regular believer, but at night you continue to work your concoctions. Because of your scientific skill, you have devised a concoction that you can apply to an individual to put him into a deep sleep (preventing a night action, if a cultist, a chance of blocking the ritual based on the total number of cultists remaining [1/n]). However, sometimes (25%) your greed gets the best of you, and you will instead waste your night attempting to create gold. Because of your lack of faith, you will appear to the Oracle and Apprentice (if he is accurate) as a non-believer.

Non-Believer - Even when you were a child, you simply did not "feel" the faith, and simply gave it up as you grew into adulthood. Much like the Alchemist, you are afraid of your lack of faith being clumped in with the Cultists, and have decided to show up and vote as a regular citizen. But just like any other town-folk, you have a job and a family to take care of and thus will be unable to discuss anything at night. Because of your lack of faith, you will appear to the Oracle and Apprentice (if he is accurate) as a non-believer.

Psychopath - You are much like the other non-believers; you simply don’t believe. However, unknown to even yourself, you are not exactly “well” in the head. When the Cultists or the Crusader attack you at night, you will awaken startled and barely manage to scare off your attackers; however, because you were unable to identify them in the dark, your paranoia will set in. You've HAD IT with these people and their crazy beliefs imposing them on you. You will make it your mission to get rid of ALL Believers and Cultists alike. Thereafter, you may attempt one kill per night. You will not be satisfied if even one believer or cultist remains alive. However, if you are never attacked at night, you will not become the Psychopath, and will be able to win with the same conditions as the other Non-Believers. Because of your lack of faith, you will appear to the Oracle and Apprentice (if he is accurate) as a non-believer; however, upon going mad, they will be able to discover your ulterior motives.

Cultists

Cultist - Of course you've heard the story about how things came to be, but you know it to be wrong. It was, in fact, the Nairu who inspired her followers to invade and destroy the simple peoples under Sekham's just rule so that she may rule the whole of the Earth. And afterward, to add insult to injury, she cast him into an Earthen prison. You are descended from these ancient people, and the wrath of your god flows through you; he demands the blood of her followers. However, conquest is not an option because you are few in number and will be slain at the slightest hint of your true beliefs. As such, you will pass yourself off as a regular citizen each day; but at night, you will choose a citizen and, if accepted by Sekham, you will slay him and offer him up as a sacrifice. The Oracle and Apprentice are unable to tell that you are a cultist, only that you do not follow Nairu, and as such will simply appear as a non-believer.

Prophet - The blood of many great prophets of Sekham flows in your veins and you have spent your life studying to become a powerful leader. As such, you hold dominion over all the cultists (i.e., the tie breaking vote). Your power allows you to shield yourself from the prying eyes of the Oracle and Apprentice, and if you are targeted, will show up as a believer. Further, you also have the power to twist the minds of weak spirited individuals. One time, you may spend a night to perform a powerful ritual, twisting the mind of a non-cultist and forcibly converting him to a follower of Sekham; however, this ritual requires the assistance of all of your cultists, and will prevent a sacrifice to Sekham on that night. Further, because the recruit is the result of twisting his mind and not a change of heart, he will ALSO continue to appear as he would previously would to the Oracle and Apprentice. Because the ritual requires a powerful prophet, the cultists will be unable to perform it if the prophet is dead.

Avatar - You believe yourself to be as any other cultist; however, you are very special in the eyes of Sekham. Unbeknownst even to you, he intends to use your body as his Earthly form when the time has come to raise his army once again. Until then, you will continue to behave as any other cultist; however, upon your death, he who is most responsible (chosen randomly among all voters) will incur the wrath of Sekham and will be smitten. Because the Crusader and Psychopath operate in the veil of night, Sekham will be unaware either is the culprit if he targets and kills the Avatar at night. Further, because of the great evil flowing in your veins, the Oracle and Apprentice will make no mistake identifying you and cannot mistake anyone else as you.

There will be a secret role.

[Mtgman]

Hmm, the secret role makes me nervous, but since I expect to be chained to my desk for the next four weeks(with much of that being downtime while I wait on people to fix stuff for me to get my part done) I think I'll apply for a slot at this one.

Enjoy,
Steven

ETA: FOS storyteller0910!

[Blaster Master]

Basics:

First and foremost, this is a game. Please enjoy yourself. If you are not, may request to be subbed out.

There will be 30 player slots available on a first come, first serve basis. I will also keep a substitution list of anyone who does not get in the initial 30 players and will be subbed in as needed.

All players will need to have PMs enabled (to receive role assignments and potentially send night instructions). All players will also need their e-mail addresses in their profile (to potentially be invited to the cultist discussion group).

I will begin passing out roles approximately 24 hours after all slots have been filled/confirmed to ensure that everyone has had ample time to ask questions. I will extend this time if necessary.

I will not have a hard rule on minimum posts per Day; however, if there are complaints of non-participation, I will reserve the right to forcibly sub out a player who is not actively participating. Please make any complaints about inactivity to me via PM or e-mail.

All rule and role questions after roles have been handed out should be sent to me via PM or e-mail. If appropriate, I will respond in the game thread; otherwise, I will respond via the method in which I was contacted.

This is a game of subtlety; therefore, you may not edit your posts in this thread at any time for any reason. If you need to correct grammatical or factual errors, please correct them in a follow-up post instead. I will only warn once or twice; thereafter, anyone who edits his posts may be forcibly subbed or mod-killed, depending on how far into the game the edit occurs.

As is the running tradition, this game will also have a commentary thread that is forbidden to live players. While there is no way to enforce that active players remain outside the thread, you are on your honor to do so. If you accidentally view any information in the forbidden thread, please request a substitution.

Please make any requests of me (vote counts, day end time, clarifications, etc.) in green. Otherwise, I may miss the request if I am in a hurry.



Each Day will last 5 regular days. Each Night will last 2 regular days.


Day:

During the day, all players may strategize, analyze, vote, or discuss whatever is on your mind.

All votes must be made in Blue, or they will not be counted. All un-votes must be made in Red, or they will not be counted. You may vote as often or as little as you like; however, you must un-vote before changing your vote.

Any votes or un-votes made after the deadline (even if I have not officially announced it) will not be counted.

If at any time a candidate receives a majority of the town's votes, a 12-hour countdown will be initiated. If the player still holds a majority at the end of the countdown, the day will be ended early. This countdown will only be in effect if I am available to announce it.

If at the end of the day two or more candidates are tied, the day will be extended 12-hours. During that time, you may change your vote as often as you like, but you may only change it to one of the candidates who was in the tie. If two or more candidates are still tied at the end of the extended period, the lynchee will be selected randomly from the tied candidates.

If a Day begins with 20 or fewer players remaining, the Day shall be reduced to 4 regular days. If a Day begins with 10 or fewer players remaining, the Day will be reduced to 3 regular days.


Night:

You may not strategize, analyze, or vote. However, you may discuss general chat topics, pretend to drink, etc.

Each role with a night action must send me an e-mail or PM with their action or non-action by the end of the night. If I have not heard from you by that time, you will have no night action.

The Cultists will have an off board discussion group created that they will use for their Night discussions and voting. There, they will be permitted to strategize and vote/un-vote during the Night; however, they may not strategize or vote/un-vote in that group during the Day.

If all Night instructions are received prior to the end of the Night, the Night will end early.


Ending Conditions:

The Town wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Pro-Town roles win (special roles excepted). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Crusader wins if no Cultists or Non-Believers remain and the crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win.

The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins with the Non-Believers if he is not activated. If he is activated, he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.

[Blaster Master]

Believers

Citizen/Believer - No special role. Investigates as a “Believer”.

Priest (Doctor) - Blesses one person (possibly himself) each night, protecting him from all night kill attempts and a conversion attempt. He can perform special "Protect All Citizens" action once during the game but will be powerless the subsequent night. Cannot be converted. Investigates as “Priest”.

Disciple (Faith Healer) - Knows who the Priest is. He can bless a player to give 50% night kill protection (per kill attempt) and 100% conversion protection. If the Priest dies without having used the special "Protect All Citizens" power, the Disciple gains a one-time-use power to protect two people in the night but will be powerless the subsequent night. Cannot be converted. Investigates as “Disciple”.

Oracle (Detective) – May learn the role of one player each night, with exceptions (see individual roles). In particular, the Prophet appears as a "Believer". Power lost if converted. Investigates as “Oracle”.

Apprentice (Beat Cop) – He Knows who the Oracle is. May learn the role of one player each night with 50% accuracy; incorrect results are drawn from the actual role distribution. If targeted by the Oracle, accuracy improves by 10% that night and subsequent nights up to 80% as long as the oracle is alive. If/when the Oracle dies (regardless of previous rule's activation), accuracy improves 20% and false readings become blank readings. Power lost if converted. Investigates as “Apprentice”

Monk (Mason) – They knows who other Monks are. Cannot be converted. Investigates as “Monk”.

Crusader (Vigilante) - He gets a night kill with a 50% success rate unless he opted not to kill the previous night, in which case the success rate is 100%. Cannot opt out of killing twice in a row. Special win conditions (see below). Powers and win conditions lost if converted. Investigates as “Crusader”.


Non-believers

Alchemist (Miller + Role-Blocker) – May prevent night actions of one player each night, but fails 25% of the time. If a cultist is targeted, the cult's sacrifice is stopped with probability 1/n, n=number of cultists alive at the beginning of the night. Power lost if converted. Investigates as “Non-Believer”.

Non-Believer (Miller) - No special power. Investigates as “Non-Believer”.

Psychopath (Serial Killer) - A simple Non-Believer until targeted in the night by the cultists or the crusader. If so targeted, he must kill a target night and a new win condition will apply (see below). Investigates as “Non-Believer” if un-activated; investigates as “Psychopath” if activated.


Cultists

Cultist (Mafia) – They Know who the other Cultists are. They communicate with them at night and vote for the cult's night kill ("sacrifice") or conversion target. Investigates as “Non-Believer”.

Prophet (Godfather) - Special cultist. He has the tie breaking vote among cultists. Once, while alive, he can spend one night converting a Non-Cultist but the Cult's sacrifice will be skipped that night. A Converted player appears to the Oracle/Apprentice as they did before conversion. Investigates as “Believer”.

Avatar - Special cultist. Unaware of being the "Avatar"; if lynched, a random person who voted for him will die in the night immediately. Investigates as “Avatar”; the Apprentice will NOT receive a false reading.


End conditions

The Town wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Pro-Town roles win (special roles excepted). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Crusader wins if no Cultists or Non-Believers remain and the crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win.

The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins with the Non-Believers if he is not activated. If he is activated, he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.

[Blaster Master]

Current Players:
(All for whom I reserved a spot, please confirm you're still interested).


1* ArizonaTeach
2* USCDiver
3* Idle Thoughts
4* Zuma
5* HockeyMonkey
6* storyteller0910
7* NAF1138
8* sachertorte
9* SnakesCatLady
10* Malacandra
11 Mtgman

[NAF1138]

Finally it's up!

I don't know about anyone else, but I have been chomping at the bit to start this next game.

Thanks in advance for doing this Blaster. Good luck to ya! :D

[storyteller0910]

Current Players:
(All for whom I reserved a spot, please confirm you're still interested).


1* ArizonaTeach
2* USCDiver
3* Idle Thoughts
4* Zuma
5* HockeyMonkey
6* storyteller0910
7* NAF1138
8* sachertorte
9* SnakesCatLady
10* Malacandra
11 Mtgman

I am so excited about this game. I think it's going to be absolute madness. When do you anticipate kicking off the actual playing?

EDITED TO ADD: Oh, and yes, confirmed, I wanna play.

[Clockwork Jackal]

Yay! Mafia V!

Oh! Oh!

*raises hand*

I'll play!

[Hal Briston]

Woohoo! Count me in!

[Blaster Master]

I am so excited about this game. I think it's going to be absolute madness. When do you anticipate kicking off the actual playing?

I've been excited to get this started too (just ask my fiancée). Hopefully, if we get 30 people quickly, I can get out the role PMs tomorrow, and then begin as soon as everyone has confirmed their role. So, hopefully Wednesday or Thursday.

[storyteller0910]

I've been excited to get this started too (just ask my fiancée). Hopefully, if we get 30 people quickly, I can get out the role PMs tomorrow, and then begin as soon as everyone has confirmed their role. So, hopefully Wednesday or Thursday.

Dude, you're going to have 30 people by the time I finish the bowl of soup I'm having for lunch.

[Pleonast]

Looks fun!

In the very unlikely event you don't get enough players, I'd like to play. But please put me at the end of the line, so that those new to the game get a chance.

[ArizonaTeach]

I'm #1! I'm #1!!

[storyteller0910]

Hmm, the secret role makes me nervous, but since I expect to be chained to my desk for the next four weeks(with much of that being downtime while I wait on people to fix stuff for me to get my part done) I think I'll apply for a slot at this one.

Enjoy,
Steven

ETA: FOS storyteller0910!

Gaaaah!

[Blaster Master]

Looks fun!

In the very unlikely event you don't get enough players, I'd like to play. But please put me at the end of the line, so that those new to the game get a chance.

I can put you #1 on the sub-list, if you'd like. I don't have much issue with you playing if you've played before, because there's already three or four newer people.

[Pleonast]

I can put you #1 on the sub-list, if you'd like. I don't have much issue with you playing if you've played before, because there's already three or four newer people.Either way works for me! Can you promise me a non-Mason role? ;)

[Blaster Master]

Either way works for me! Can you promise me a non-Mason role? ;)

I could, but it won't mean anything. If you don't wanna be a Monk, you'll have to take up that issue with random.org. :p

I'll add you to the player list.

[DiggitCamara]

I want in!

[Hal Briston]

I think whoever happens to be directly above me is completely trustworthy, no matter how many scum tells you may think you see.

[NAF1138]

I think whoever happens to be directly above me is completely trustworthy, no matter how many scum tells you may think you see.


Looking out for old friends eh? I see how it is.


FOS Hal!

And for good measure...FOS storyteller. (That guy manages to end up as scum at least once every game he is in. This means something. :dubious: )

[Mtgman]

Couple notes and clarifications. I see this in a couple character descriptions. During the day, you will hide among the citizenry and be able to cast a vote just as any of them; however, at night, you will be locked in prayer and unable to discuss any repercussions during the night.Does this mean they can't talk at all during the night? I would assume they can do meaningless chatter, as can others, or else they'll give themselves away. Also The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.I'm assuming the "Believers" in the first sentence was supposed to be "Non-Believers", yes?The Psychopath wins with the Non-Believers if he is not activated. If he is activated, he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.Means the Psychopath wins if he's still alive when some other end condition is met. The way it reads it could technically mean he wins as soon as he's activated. I don't think anyone would make that mistake, but we have seen how games can get derailed over minor points like this in the past.

Also, having something official about the roles being determined by random.org wouldn't hurt.Gaaaah!You don't know how hard it was for me, at the end of Mafia II, in the forbidden thread. I was wanting to post, in a singsong voice, "Somebody's telling stories...", but I kept my yap shut because you were playing such a great game and I didn't want to mess that up.

Enjoy,
Steven

[SnakesCatLady]

Oh yes, I'm in! I've got the cats, the catnip and the ingredients for margaritas!

[DiggitCamara]

Oh yes, I'm in! I've got the cats, the catnip and the ingredients for margaritas!
AND your Cats are psychic!

[Fretful Porpentine]

Ooh, I want to play if there's still room!

[Captain Carrot]

I'd like to play this time, having missed out on the previous 3.

[Pasta]

Okay, I'm in!

[sachertorte]

8* sachertorte

Confirmed


End conditions

The Town wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Pro-Town roles win (special roles excepted). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Crusader wins if no Cultists or Non-Believers remain and the crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win.

The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins with the Non-Believers if he is not activated. If he is activated, he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.

I find these conditions confusing, especially the final statement in each block. Are these consequences, additional condtions? Wha?

What constitutes the set 'Town'?
Condition #1 and #4 set up a conflict, I think. Which one has priority? Or are the conditions inclusive rather than exclusive?

It think it is best to get these conditions clear before roles go out so there's no needless chatter about why someone (ME) is so concerned about blahblah's win condition.

[Hal Briston]

Huzzah! New players!

Obviously no knock against the veterans, but I think we can all agree -- new blood is vital to keeping things fresh...

[Blaster Master]

Does this mean they can't talk at all during the night? I would assume they can do meaningless chatter, as can others, or else they'll give themselves away.
That doesn't mean anything. It was just my way of explaining why they couldn't strategize at night a la the Cultists.

I tried to be creative to come up with reasons why the roles had their powers and limitations. I was running under the assumption that all the drinking and chatting happens in the evening and the Night Actions happen when everyone is sleeping.

Also I'm assuming the "Believers" in the first sentence was supposed to be "Non-Believers", yes?

Yes, that condition should read: "The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists Lose."

Means the Psychopath wins if he's still alive when some other end condition is met. The way it reads it could technically mean he wins as soon as he's activated.

The "Must remain alive" condition is meant to be in addition to, not in place of, his regular unactivated condition. I will re-post the ending conditions to clarify a couple of things.

...I think I may have copied and pasted from a previous draft. :eek: :smack:

I don't think anyone would make that mistake, but we have seen how games can get derailed over minor points like this in the past. Also, having something official about the roles being determined by random.org wouldn't hurt.

I coulda sworn I'd put that in there too. For the sake of preempting a potentially messy discussion, I will be using random.org to assign roles.

[Hockey Monkey]

Current Players:
(All for whom I reserved a spot, please confirm you're still interested).


1* ArizonaTeach
2* USCDiver
3* Idle Thoughts
4* Zuma
5* HockeyMonkey
6* storyteller0910
7* NAF1138
8* sachertorte
9* SnakesCatLady
10* Malacandra
11 Mtgman

Confirming!

[Blaster Master]

Confirmed



I find these conditions confusing, especially the final statement in each block. Are these consequences, additional condtions? Wha?

What constitutes the set 'Town'?
Condition #1 and #4 set up a conflict, I think. Which one has priority? Or are the conditions inclusive rather than exclusive?

It think it is best to get these conditions clear before roles go out so there's no needless chatter about why someone (ME) is so concerned about blahblah's win condition.

Rules 1 and 4 are meant to be similar to the Mason win conditions from Mafia III. I will post a revised version of the win conditions in a moment where I've attempted to clarify.

ETA: Any questions about win condtions should be PMed to me after roles have been handed out to avoid meta-gaming.

[storyteller0910]

ETA: Any questions about win condtions should be PMed to me after roles have been handed out to avoid meta-gaming.

May I suggest that this should apply to nearly all questions about the rules? Any open communication with the moderator apart from questions about when the Day ends and requests for a vote count seem to open themselves up to meta-gaming pretty well.

[sachertorte]

Avatar - Special cultist. Unaware of being the "Avatar"; if lynched, a random person who voted for him will die in the night immediately. Investigates as “Avatar”; the Apprentice will NOT receive a false reading.


Role clarification:
Will cultists voting for the avatar will also be subject to this death condition?
By "die int he night immediately" does that mean die the beginning of the night (i.e. end of the day? Or will the death be posted at dawn?

[DiggitCamara]

May I suggest that this should apply to nearly all questions about the rules? Any open communication with the moderator apart from questions about when the Day ends and requests for a vote count seem to open themselves up to meta-gaming pretty well.
Seconded.

[Blaster Master]

May I suggest that this should apply to nearly all questions about the rules? Any open communication with the moderator apart from questions about when the Day ends and requests for a vote count seem to open themselves up to meta-gaming pretty well.

Yes, and it is in the Rules. I just wanted to make sure that he was aware of it, that if a rule question comes up after roles are handed out, it's not the end of asking questions.

All rule and role questions after roles have been handed out should be sent to me via PM or e-mail. If appropriate, I will respond in the game thread; otherwise, I will respond via the method in which I was contacted.

[Clockwork Jackal]

May I suggest that this should apply to nearly all questions about the rules? Any open communication with the moderator apart from questions about when the Day ends and requests for a vote count seem to open themselves up to meta-gaming pretty well.


As long as the moderator posts the question and the answer anonymously so everyone can see it. (If it's something that would normally be seen by everyone.)

[storyteller0910]

Role clarification:
Will cultists voting for the avatar will also be subject to this death condition?


Ooh. Good question. If so, that's cool as hell, because it adds one more layer to the eternal question, "will scum vote for scum?"

[Blaster Master]

Role clarification:
Will cultists voting for the avatar will also be subject to this death condition?
By "die int he night immediately" does that mean die the beginning of the night (i.e. end of the day? Or will the death be posted at dawn?

Yes, it will apply to cultists as well. If this part of the role is activated, the death of the one whom Sekham has smitten will be part of the end of day post and will be considered part of the conditions going into the night. Such that, he cannot be saved by the priest or Disciple, his role will be revealed, and, if he's a cultist, the n for the Alchemist will be the number of cultists after his death.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Ok, I'll play if there's room.

If not put me on as a sub.

::goes to read the insanely complicated ruleset ;)::

--FCOD

[Blaster Master]

Ooh. Good question. If so, that's cool as hell, because it adds one more layer to the eternal question, "will scum vote for scum?"
That was part of my motivation for creating the role. :D

[Blaster Master]

The win conditions will be checked at the end of each Day and Night.

The Town (Believers and Non-Believers) wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Believers and Non-Believers win (exceptions for the Crusader and the Psychopath are listed below). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Non-Believers may win with the Town. They may also win exclusive of the Town if there are no Cultists remaining and the Non-Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Believers and Cultists Lose.

The Crusader wins with the Town if no Non-Believers remain and the Crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win. All Non-Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins as a normal Non-Believer if he is not activated (i.e., with the Town or the Non-Believers). If he is activated, he may only win if the Non-Believers win (i.e., he can no longer win with the Town) AND he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.

[Scuba_Ben]

I want in! Mafia III was very interesting to follow, so I'll give this a try.

But I've never played any version of Mafia before, so I'll probably go out in the first Day or two.

[Blaster Master]

10 Spots still remain. Those with asterisks still need to confirm the spot I reserved for you.

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver*
3 Idle Thoughts*
4 Zuma*
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra*
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben

[Hal Briston]

Note to self: Kill Scuba_Ben immediately...no one will suspect.

[Clockwork Jackal]

Note to self: Kill Scuba_Ben immediately...no one will suspect.


Psssst, Hal, use your inside voice.

[Scuba_Ben]

Note to self: Kill Scuba_Ben immediately...no one will suspect.FOS Hal Briston right off the bat.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I must warn all of you, I'm 2 for 2 at this game...

--FCOD

[Queuing]

When does this game start? If it is after this upcoming weekend, I would be interested in playing again.

[Mtgman]

The Crusader wins with the Town if no Non-Believers remain and the Crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win. All Non-Believers and Cultists lose.Now this is interesting, and a significant change on the original(which included cultists being dead) win condition. This may be the easier of the town's win conditions. Firstly, their investigative arm(the oracle and his apprentices) can find the non-believers easier than they can find cultists. None of them can hide like the Prophet, and his recruit, can. Secondly, there are probably less Non-Believers than there are cultists. Maybe not, but probably. I'd guess there'll be between five and six Cultists(based on the rule of thumb of having approximately the square root of the number of players as sucm, otherwise you're pretty much throwing the game to them). Thirdly, they aren't organized and self-aware like the Cultists are, so they're softer targets.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Zeriel]

I want in I want in!

[MonkeyMensch]

I only want in 'cause I can hold my breath a really REALLY long time.

[Blaster Master]

When does this game start? If it is after this upcoming weekend, I would be interested in playing again.

It will probably start in a few days I imagine. If you won't have much activity until after the weekend, I wouldn't treat it any differently than someone going on vacation and missing a day in the middle. I wouldn't have a problem including you unless I see an objection from others because you'd most or all of the first day.

[NAF1138]

Come on in Queuing. It is looking like the game will start before this weekend, but the Day will last past the end of the weekend. It will be fun to have you back in.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I'm tempted to sign on again, but I'm also willing to leave room for some fresh meat...

[sachertorte]

Now this is interesting, and a significant change on the original(which included cultists being dead) win condition. This may be the easier of the town's win conditions. Firstly, their investigative arm(the oracle and his apprentices) can find the non-believers easier than they can find cultists. None of them can hide like the Prophet, and his recruit, can. Secondly, there are probably less Non-Believers than there are cultists. Maybe not, but probably. I'd guess there'll be between five and six Cultists(based on the rule of thumb of having approximately the square root of the number of players as sucm, otherwise you're pretty much throwing the game to them). Thirdly, they aren't organized and self-aware like the Cultists are, so they're softer targets.

Enjoy,
Steven

I think (think, not know), that the crusader's win condition requires a town win. In other words, "win with the town" means the town must win in order for the crusader to win, and not 'this is another way for the town to win.' So the crusader win condition requires all cultists to be dead. This should probably be stated explicitly though.

[Autolycus]

I decided; I want in! :)

[Queuing]

Come on in Queuing. It is looking like the game will start before this weekend, but the Day will last past the end of the weekend. It will be fun to have you back in.

Cool, thanks. It is Canada Day this weekend, which means a long weekend! I don't think my GF would be very impressed if I was on my laptop trying to find a hotspot during the festivities in Ottawa. I will be away Friday evening until Monday evening. Oh, and I promise that I won't get in a fight with every player at some point this time :)

[Blaster Master]

I think (think, not know), that the crusader's win condition requires a town win. In other words, "win with the town" means the town must win in order for the crusader to win, and not 'this is another way for the town to win.' So the crusader win condition requires all cultists to be dead. This should probably be stated explicitly though.

Yes, yet another typo. I'll post the update in just a minute.

[Blaster Master]

The win conditions will be checked at the end of each Day and Night.

The Town (Believers and Non-Believers) wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Believers and Non-Believers win (exceptions for the Crusader and the Psychopath are listed below). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Non-Believers may win with the Town. They may also win exclusive of the Town if there are no Cultists remaining and the Non-Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Believers and Cultists Lose.

The Crusader wins with the Town if no Cultists or Non-Believers remain and the Crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win. All Non-Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins as a normal Non-Believer if he is not activated (i.e., with the Town or the Non-Believers). If he is activated, he may only win if the Non-Believers win (i.e., he can no longer win with the Town) AND he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.

[Hal Briston]

I decided; I want in! :)Very good! Just please don't talk like a cultist in every post.



Actually, I think we may be safe from that one... :)

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I decided; I want in! :)Does this mean you're going to talk like a psychopath for the entire game?

How does a psychopath talk, anyway?

--FCOD

[MonkeyMensch]

And if you have any influence, BlasterMaster, could you get this part of the rules appended to the Democratic National Party's rules before next year?

If at the end of the day two or more candidates are tied, the day will be extended 12-hours. During that time, you may change your vote as often as you like, but you may only change it to one of the candidates who was in the tie. If two or more candidates are still tied at the end of the extended period, the lynchee will be selected randomly from the tied candidates.

[Autolycus]

Very good! Just please don't talk like a cultist in every post.



Actually, I think we may be safe from that one... :)

I'll have to formulate some type of role-play, but I'll try to make it less annoying than my previous two incarnations :cool:

[Malacandra]

Cool, thanks. It is Canada Day this weekend, which means a long weekend! I don't think my GF would be very impressed if I was on my laptop trying to find a hotspot during the festivities in Ottawa. I will be away Friday evening until Monday evening. Oh, and I promise that I won't get in a fight with every player at some point this time :)

And I'll try to leave out the algebra :p

Thanks for the reservation; I'm in. It'll give me something to do while I'm designing Mafia VIII: With Pirates, Ninjas and Undead. :D

[Blaster Master]

And if you have any influence, BlasterMaster, could you get this part of the rules appended to the Democratic National Party's rules before next year?

If at the end of the day two or more candidates are tied, the day will be extended 12-hours. During that time, you may change your vote as often as you like, but you may only change it to one of the candidates who was in the tie. If two or more candidates are still tied at the end of the extended period, the lynchee will be selected randomly from the tied candidates.

So you want the Democrat's to start lynching their candidates? That doesn't sound like a good thing... unless you're a Republican. :p

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Curse you Hal!

My joke doesn't make sense. I was confused about the roles...I thought there was more than one psychopath. Oh well.

So if all of the Cultists are dead and there are still Non-Believers, the Crusader loses?

--FCOD

[Blaster Master]

I'm tempted to sign on again, but I'm also willing to leave room for some fresh meat...

If you'd prefer to leave it open to newer players, I can make you sub #1, which will almost certainly be needed anyway. Or, you can just sign up and skip the whole not playing for a few days part. ;)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Are you already full? I'd be willing to give it a try. Or I can stand in as an alternate.

[MonkeyMensch]

So you want the Democrat's to start lynching their candidates? That doesn't sound like a good thing... unless you're a Republican. :p
Heavens, no. It would be fun though! You'd get to hear some serious campaigning!

[Blaster Master]

Curse you Hal!

My joke doesn't make sense. I was confused about the roles...I thought there was more than one psychopath. Oh well.

So if all of the Cultists are dead and there are still Non-Believers, the Crusader loses?

--FCOD

Yes, the Crusader can only win if the Cultists and Non-Believers (Including the Alchemist, Non-Believers, and Psychopath) are all dead.

[Idle Thoughts]

Here's my confirmation, Blaster. Looking like a great game.

[SnakesCatLady]

Why am I hearing "Walk like a Psych-o-path"?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Ok I'm in. And now I'm inclined to share with you all my current personal hell...

Hey Crusaders...Hey Crusaders...Get out of our way. *clap clap* You better move, yeah move, 'cause today is the day. *clap clap* Our engine is fired up. *clap clap* We're primed for victory. *clap clap* Hey Crusaders...Hey Crusaders...defeat's your destiny.
:smack: :o :dubious:

And since the roles are yet to be assigned, no preconceived notions please. I have a hard enough time dealing with the whole "scummy" screen name stigma. :p

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

And since the roles are yet to be assigned, no preconceived notions please. I have a hard enough time dealing with the whole "scummy" screen name stigma. :pThat sounds like a scum tell to me! FOS Cookies!

--FCOD

[HazelNutCoffee]

Blaster Master, is it full yet? Do I get to play this time? I MUST KNOW! :: looks frenzied ::

I'm only posting my request again because I'm afraid you might have missed it, having somehow managed to simul-post with your last post. :)

[MonkeyMensch]

Ending Conditions:

The Town wins if there are no Cultists remaining. All Pro-Town roles win (special roles excepted). All Cultists lose.

The Cultists win if they equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. All Non-Cultists lose.

The Crusader wins if no Cultists or Non-Believers remain and the crusader killed at least one Cultist or Non-Believer. All Believers win.

The Non-Believers win if there are no Cultists remaining and the Believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town population. Believers and Cultists lose.

The Psychopath wins with the Non-Believers if he is not activated. If he is activated, he must remain alive. All Believers and Cultists lose.
Should the bolded part of that read in part, "...and the Non-believers equal or exceed 50% of the Town..."?

[Hockey Monkey]

Does this mean you're going to talk like a psychopath for the entire game?

How does a psychopath talk, anyway?

--FCOD

Like Autolycus... :D

[Idle Thoughts]

Why am I hearing "Walk like a Psych-o-path"?

How scummy.






Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding! :D :p

[Idle Thoughts]

Blaster Master, is it full yet? Do I get to play this time? I MUST KNOW! :: looks frenzied ::

I'm only posting my request again because I'm afraid you might have missed it, having somehow managed to simul-post with your last post. :)

From my count, you're in since he'd still have (after you) about four or five more possible spots.

[Blaster Master]

ONLY FOUR SPOTS LEFT!

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver*
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma*
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee

[DiggitCamara]

ONLY FOUR SPOTS LEFT!

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver*
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma*
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee
Bolding mine. Anyone else noticing something? (although... was Fretful in The Fraternity?)

[NAF1138]

Oh, and I promise that I won't get in a fight with every player at some point this time :)


Well that's no fun. :p

[MHaye]

Curses his addiction to these games.*

I cold-turkeyed for over a year before playing in the Pirate game... and can't resist another dose.

Sign me up please BM?

[Scuba_Ben]

Just out of curiosity, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, what group were you in that considered the cheerleaders as arch-rivals?

[storyteller0910]

Cool, thanks. It is Canada Day this weekend, which means a long weekend! I don't think my GF would be very impressed if I was on my laptop trying to find a hotspot during the festivities in Ottawa. I will be away Friday evening until Monday evening. Oh, and I promise that I won't get in a fight with every player at some point this time :)

Hey! You and I never fought, that I recall.

Three more people, and we're off, right? Come on, spectators! Come join the insanity!

[panamajack]

FOS Blaster Master for using random.org! :)

I won't be in this game, but during those lonely nights aboard a ship I came up with a chart (adjusted so that it should match the current state of the game). Blaster Master seemed okay with my posting it, so I'm hoping it's correct.

Here's a shorthand chart for those of you trying to find something to believe in.


Role Alignment Investigates as Can convert Wins with Special Knows Is Known By

Believer Town Believer Y Town
Priest Town Priest N Town Bless Disciple
Disciple Town Disciple N Town Bless Priest
Oracle Town Oracle Y Town Investigate Apprentice
Apprentice Town Apprentice Y Town Investigate Oracle
Monk Town Monk N Town other Monks other Monks
Crusader Town Crusader Y Self Kills
Alchemist Town Non-believer Y Town, NB Blocker
Non-believer Town Non-believer Y Town, NB
Psychopath Self Psychopath Y Self (UNAWARE)
Cultist Cult Non-believer N/A Cult other Cult other Cult
Prophet Cult Believer N/A Cult Conversion Cult Cult
Avatar Cult Avatar N/A Cult Vengeance UNAWARE


Any special role that gets converted loses its powers.

The 'Psychopath' listing is for the activated Psychopath; unactivated it is identical to Non-believer.

See full description of roles for win conditions and special powers.

[Queuing]

Hey! You and I never fought, that I recall.

Jerk.

:D

[Blaster Master]

FOS Blaster Master for using random.org! :)

I won't be in this game, but during those lonely nights aboard a ship I came up with a chart (adjusted so that it should match the current state of the game). Blaster Master seemed okay with my posting it, so I'm hoping it's correct.

Here's a shorthand chart for those of you trying to find something to believe in.


Role Alignment Investigates as Can convert Wins with Special Knows Is Known By

Believer Town Believer Y Town
Priest Town Priest N Town Bless Disciple
Disciple Town Disciple N Town Bless Priest
Oracle Town Oracle Y Town Investigate Apprentice
Apprentice Town Apprentice Y Town Investigate Oracle
Monk Town Monk N Town other Monks other Monks
Crusader Town Crusader Y Self Kills
Alchemist Town Non-believer Y Town, NB Blocker
Non-believer Town Non-believer Y Town, NB
Psychopath Self Psychopath Y Self (UNAWARE)
Cultist Cult Non-believer N/A Cult other Cult other Cult
Prophet Cult Believer N/A Cult Conversion Cult Cult
Avatar Cult Avatar N/A Cult Vengeance UNAWARE


Any special role that gets converted loses its powers.

The 'Psychopath' listing is for the activated Psychopath; unactivated it is identical to Non-believer.

See full description of roles for win conditions and special powers.

Thanks, I think it will help clear up some of the rules. The only part that is a little confusing about that are the special win conditions for the Crusader and Psychopath, in that others do win with them, but they can only win with those special conditions. That is, the Believers still win if the Crusader wins (hey, the Cult is gone, and they're not out-numbered, right?); similarly, the Non-Believers still win if the Psychopath wins (he's only after the people with "crazy beliefs"). Here's the slightly updated version of the chart:


Role Alignment Investigates as Can convert Wins with Special Knows Is Known By

Believer Town Believer Y Town
Priest Town Priest N Town Bless Disciple
Disciple Town Disciple N Town Bless Priest
Oracle Town Oracle Y Town Investigate Apprentice
Apprentice Town Apprentice Y Town Investigate Oracle
Monk Town Monk N Town other Monks other Monks
Crusader Town Crusader Y Self, B Kills
Alchemist Town Non-believer Y Town, NB Blocker
Non-believer Town Non-believer Y Town, NB
Psychopath Self Psychopath Y Self, NB (UNAWARE)
Cultist Cult Non-believer N/A Cult other Cult other Cult
Prophet Cult Believer N/A Cult Conversion Cult Cult
Avatar Cult Avatar N/A Cult Vengeance UNAWARE

[sachertorte]

the Non-Believers still win if the Psychopath wins (he's only after the people with "crazy beliefs").

I think there's a double crazy somewhere in there. Wouldn't someone wanting to off people with crazy beliefs be well, perhaps not sane, but psychopath seems so... mean.

Why is the crusader, who kills in the name of his god, a crusader, but a non-believer who kills for his athiest beliefs is a psychopath? Athiest rights! Down with religious-bias.

Ooooh, look, that water seems really shiny and wet.

[Blaster Master]

Why is the crusader, who kills in the name of his god, a crusader, but a non-believer who kills for his athiest beliefs is a psychopath? Athiest rights! Down with religious-bias.

I think George Carlin hit the basic idea here. I'm pretty sure it went something like this: "Israeli Commandos are called Freedom Fighters. Arab Commandos are called Terrorists." :p

Actually, I just couldn't come up with a better name, so I went with a traditional one. I would have gone with Serial Killer, but that implies a different kind of crazy (i.e., Hannibal Lecter).

[Mtgman]

Hey! You [Queueing] and I never fought, that I recall.Well, except at the end when you wolfed out and tore him limb from limb. That might have been considered a fight. A remarkably one-sided one, but a fight nonetheless.

Enjoy,
Steven

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Just out of curiosity, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, what group were you in that considered the cheerleaders as arch-rivals?

Whoops. I meant that to read that the St. Bernard's Crusaders were the arch rivals of my high school.

[fluiddruid]

I would like a spot if there still are any.

[Mtgman]

That reminds me, before the game gets started, anyone want to guess at what the secret role is? Will it be something great and grand(like a second Avatar, this one of Nairu), with powers beyond those of mortal man? Or will it be something interesting, but unoriginal, like a "Gun Nut/Army Veteran"(who takes out anyone who tries to kill them at night in a mutually assured destruction fashion). A "redeemer" who can convert cultists to townies? Or undo convertsion? A Pope, who is allowed to ask one question of the moderator and then post "Ex Cathedra"(infallibally) about that topic? Will it be on the side of the cultists, or the town? Or will it be a Madelyn Murry O'Hare type, who can banish the otherworldly powers for a time(negating investigations, prayer-based saves, ritual sacrifices, conversions, etc.)? The possibilities are endless.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Hal Briston]

Looks like we're down to two spots remaining.

Hey Millet! Mad the Swine! Kyrie Eleison! dnooman! Auntbeast! Get in here, people!

[Blaster Master]

Everyone who has requested so far is in.

Also, I received a PM from MadTheSwine. Please confirm your request to play. That should leave ONE open spot. Once everyone has confirmed, I will assign roles and begin sending out role PMs.

I will be leaving for a concert presently (Hurray for Virgin Black!), so PMs will either be late tonight or tomorrow morning.

Even if all of the spots are filled, please do sign up, I will be keeping a sub list and I expect at least a few of them will be used.

Current player list:

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver*
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma*
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
29
30 MadTheSwine*

[Projammer]

I really enjoyed M3, but school is still keeping me tied up so I'll just root for someone here from the peanut gallery.

Have fun folks!

And get out there and vote!

[DiggitCamara]

(snip) Oh, and I promise that I won't get in a fight with every player at some point this time :)
Hey! That attitude is reserved for ME! C'mon, I had to talk Cookies into unvoting me in the last Day of M3...


(as long as I have someone backing me up, of course) :p

[NAF1138]

Everyone who has requested so far is in.

Also, I received a PM from MadTheSwine. Please confirm your request to play. That should leave ONE open spot. Once everyone has confirmed, I will assign roles and begin sending out role PMs.

I will be leaving for a concert presently (Hurray for Virgin Black!), so PMs will either be late tonight or tomorrow morning.

Even if all of the spots are filled, please do sign up, I will be keeping a sub list and I expect at least a few of them will be used.

Current player list:

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver*
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma*
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
29
30 MadTheSwine*

Why does TheMadPig get slot 30? He special this game too?

[DiggitCamara]

(snip) and then post "Ex Cathedra"(infallibally) about that topic? (snip)

(bolding mine)
infallibally: A Perfectly Cromulent Word.

[zuma]

Confirm I'm in.

[MadTheSwine]

I'm here....did I make it in time?

[ArizonaTeach]

I'm getting tingly! A good chunk of M4 is here; that's great!

Yeah, so storyteller has been both Godfather and Captain Flint...

[MonkeyMensch]

Tick tock.
Tick tock.
Time is running, Clarice.

[MonkeyMensch]

Not that I'm still psycho or anything...

[MadTheSwine]

Why does TheMadPig get slot 30? He special this game too?

I am always special :p

[Autolycus]

I'm getting tingly! A good chunk of M4 is here; that's great!

Yeah, so storyteller has been both Godfather and Captain Flint...

He was only a Flint substitute though ;)

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Hey! That attitude is reserved for ME! C'mon, I had to talk Cookies into unvoting me in the last Day of M3...

Its not you, its me. :D

[Autolycus]

When the game starts, are we using this board or another one?

[zuma]

Looking over the roles again, BM, I wonder if this isn't tilted a little too pro-town if you have the standard number of scum. (BM hasn't sent out roles yet, so don't read anything in to me bringing this up).

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

So, now that all of the the squids are out of the bag over on the Hispaniola, I can say that I was quite thrilled to get a scum role for that game, and I was bummed that I ended up being over-extended and having to sub out only two Days in :( Consider this a cautionary tale for those of you contemplating playing two games at once while getting married. :D

[DiggitCamara]

So, now that all of the the squids are out of the bag over on the Hispaniola, I can say that I was quite thrilled to get a scum role for that game, and I was bummed that I ended up being over-extended and having to sub out only two Days in :( Consider this a cautionary tale for those of you contemplating playing two games at once while getting married. :D
Well... to be honest, I never subbed out in that game, but I certainly should have.

I simply didn't think I was much longer for this world in the M3 game, and ended up spending almost all my free time on it to the bitter end.

[NAF1138]

Well... to be honest, I never subbed out in that game, but I certainly should have.

I simply didn't think I was much longer for this world in the M3 game, and ended up spending almost all my free time on it to the bitter end.


On that note, looking at the roles and the number of people playing, this isn't going to be a whole lot smaller than M2 was. (I know 37 is the quoted number of players, but 3 died before anything happened, so we really only started with 34 and a little extra info) Unless Blaster is planning to start at night like I did, we are going to be doing this (many of us at least) for a LONG time. If you can't stay in the game, ask for a sub when the time comes, or better yet drop out now.

Its a team game, not being able to play hurts your whole team. Be considerate.

[MonkeyMensch]

I ask to be taken out now.

It was a wave of nostalgia and giddiness that made me say, "I'm in!", to begin with.

I really won't have time. Thanks for reminding me of the reality of M2, there, NAF. I'll watch with bated breathed interest, however.

[Blaster Master]

Agh! The bloody Jaxx! Switching dates less than 48 hours before the show. :rolleyes:

Looking over the roles again, BM, I wonder if this isn't tilted a little too pro-town if you have the standard number of scum. (BM hasn't sent out roles yet, so don't read anything in to me bringing this up).

I understand it kind of looks that way, but some things to consider:

There's several pro-town roles that will show up as "Non-Believer". This is intended to nerf the power of the investigative roles a bit.

The Psychopath will have incentive to go after Believers just as much as Cultists or he can't win.

Similar for the Crusader, he will have incentive to go after Non-Believers just as much as Cultists.

The recruit, while I definitely attempted to nerf it's ability to "reset" late in the game, still has a lot of power.

The Avatar's "revenge" is statistically more likely to hit a pro-town role and potentially make for some interesting voting patterns (as storyteller pointed out).


It's funny, because I was actually a bit worried I had it too in favor of the Cultists, but when I ran some numbers, it came out just about to a dead heat.

[Blaster Master]

I ask to be taken out now.

It was a wave of nostalgia and giddiness that made me say, "I'm in!", to begin with.

I really won't have time. Thanks for reminding me of the reality of M2, there, NAF. I'll watch with bated breathed interest, however.

:(

I think the large part of the problem with M2 wasn't so much the size, as it was a few loud, plain citizens (or might as well have been) that got a little bit stubborn and pretty much ran away with the game. I really don't think it will get nearly that bad.

[Hockey Monkey]

I ask to be taken out now.

It was a wave of nostalgia and giddiness that made me say, "I'm in!", to begin with.

I really won't have time. Thanks for reminding me of the reality of M2, there, NAF. I'll watch with bated breathed interest, however.


Aw, I was looking forward to there being another monkey to fling poo with. :(

How 'bout just telling us if you get a scum role so we can kill you straight off? :D

[NAF1138]

:(

I think the large part of the problem with M2 wasn't so much the size, as it was a few loud, plain citizens (or might as well have been) that got a little bit stubborn and pretty much ran away with the game. I really don't think it will get nearly that bad.


I don't think it will be either. I just wanted to say something for the people who haven't really played before. I didn't really follow M3 but I know M2 and Pirates were both hurt by the number of people who either weren't really playing or who needed to sub out.

It was supposed to me more of a, "make sure you know that this is a commitment" post, than a "get out if you can't spend 5-6 hours a day playing" post.

I am doubly sad becasue I had looked forward to playing with Monkey Mench. But if he really doesn't think he has time to play, it is better for him to leave now than to have to drop out.

[Blaster Master]

I don't think it will be either. I just wanted to say something for the people who haven't really played before. I didn't really follow M3 but I know M2 and Pirates were both hurt by the number of people who either weren't really playing or who needed to sub out.

It was supposed to me more of a, "make sure you know that this is a commitment" post, than a "get out if you can't spend 5-6 hours a day playing" post.

I am doubly sad becasue I had looked forward to playing with Monkey Mench. But if he really doesn't think he has time to play, it is better for him to leave now than to have to drop out.

Now, now... don't exaggerate. You know full well that it only takes 4 hours a day. ;)


Well, if MonkeyMensch is out. We still need two more.

[zuma]

I think capybara said on the other board that she wanted to play...

[Captain Carrot]

[omitted: Table of the players in which Hal Briston, DC, Fretful Porpentine, Pleonast and I are bolded.] Bolding mine. Anyone else noticing something? (although... was Fretful in The Fraternity?)
I'm not noticing anything, and my name's bolded.

[DiggitCamara]

I'm not noticing anything, and my name's bolded.
... all of 'em were masons (however briefly) in one or more of the previous games

:D

[sachertorte]

I have to admit that I was a bit concerned about the size of this game. M2 had three kills a night which brought the numbers down fairly quickly. I'm not sure if that's a fantastic way of game size control, but it does make the game more manageable quickly, albeit at the expense of several dead players.

M5 will have 1.5 night kills at the beginning of the game (about half od M2), with the potential for 2.5 if the Psychopath gets activated. Plus - players won't die enmass and have to wait 4 months to get a shot at playing again. Minus - the game will stay fairly large for quite a while.

I think perhaps M2 suffered from 'inactive' players due to the sheer volume of discussion generated by 34 people. If one can't keep up with the posts, then one can't contribute. I'd say it might be good for us all to try and keep the number of extraneous postings to a minimum ("Hi, I'm here, reading"). At least in the beginning. Of course there is the problem of starting the game discussion with absolutely no information, so fluff posts become unavoidable but oh well, I'm babbling now and we haven't even started yet.

[Millit the Frail]

Thanks for remembering me, Hal, but I just can't right now! School and applications and stuff need my attention. I guess I'll ask to be put on the sub list, though, if there aren't too many there already. Blaster, please consider me a sub!

(I'm saying, right now, though...NO MORE SPREADSHEET from me!)

[Blaster Master]

Thanks for remembering me, Hal, but I just can't right now! School and applications and stuff need my attention. I guess I'll ask to be put on the sub list, though, if there aren't too many there already. Blaster, please consider me a sub!

(I'm saying, right now, though...NO MORE SPREADSHEET from me!)

Actually, I was planning on simply making my vote count spread sheet public since it won't have any role information on it. If I'm going to be doing it ANYWAY, why reinvent the wheel?

[Fretful Porpentine]

... all of 'em were masons (however briefly) in one or more of the previous games

:D
Um, no, the only previous game I've played in was Mafia 2, and I was a Citizen.

[USCDiver]

I've confirmed.

[Captain Klutz]

I'd like to play, if there's still room.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, with MonkeyMensch dropping out (sorry to see you go), there's one spot left. Unless there's any rule/role questions, I will begin PMing roles soon after the last spot is filled.

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
24 Autolycus
25 HazelNutCoffee
26 MHaye
27 fluiddruid
28 MadTheSwine
29 Captain Klutz
30

[USCDiver]

I've confirmed.

On second thought, before I confirm. Can anyone tell me the true daily time requirment for average participation? I will be on vacation several different times during July and August where I may or may not have internet access.

I feel certain I'll be able to read through the thread and vote. Maybe make a few content rich posts of my own, but I probably won't have the time for a detailed analysis each Day.

Should I sub out of this round? I really want to play, and don't want to wait another 4 months to get a chance, but I don't want to take up a spot if someone else wants to play more.

[storyteller0910]

Aaaaauuuggghh!

One more spot? Surely someone is around to take it. Where is JSexton this time around? Or Kat? Or Pygmy Rugger? Come on, Pygmy, maybe we can spend two more months pretending to hate one another!

[Blaster Master]

Okay, with MonkeyMensch dropping out (sorry to see you go), there's one spot left. Unless there's any rule/role questions, I will begin PMing roles soon after the last spot is filled.

My apologies, I spoke to soon. The player list is filled. :cool:

Anyone still interested in playing, please feel free to still post or PM me. Life is unpredictable and I'm certain subs will be needed.

I will be drafting and sending out PMs presently.

[Blaster Master]

On second thought, before I confirm. Can anyone tell me the true daily time requirment for average participation? I will be on vacation several different times during July and August where I may or may not have internet access.

I feel certain I'll be able to read through the thread and vote. Maybe make a few content rich posts of my own, but I probably won't have the time for a detailed analysis each Day.

Should I sub out of this round? I really want to play, and don't want to wait another 4 months to get a chance, but I don't want to take up a spot if someone else wants to play more.

IMO, as long as you can read the thread and make a few content posts per Day, you should be fine. As has been shown from previous games, in fact spending TOO much time can actually be detrimental to the game. Speaking for myself, I'd rather see a player make only a handful of posts in a Day and have them all have good content (or at least an honest attempt at content) as opposed to making a dozen or more posts, and having half of them be fluff, and the rest pretty much random.

IOW, if you were able to follow along in the forbidden thread, you should do fine, I think.

[USCDiver]

IMO, as long as you can read the thread and make a few content posts per Day, you should be fine. As has been shown from previous games, in fact spending TOO much time can actually be detrimental to the game. Speaking for myself, I'd rather see a player make only a handful of posts in a Day and have them all have good content (or at least an honest attempt at content) as opposed to making a dozen or more posts, and having half of them be fluff, and the rest pretty much random.

IOW, if you were able to follow along in the forbidden thread, you should do fine, I think.

Ok I'm in. I'm working until later tonight. When do you anticipate officially starting? Will it be a Day or Night start?

[sachertorte]

Who is number 30?

[Dragoness]

Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease still have room..... Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease..... Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease.....
CRAP.

Well, can I get a spot on the sub list at least? Please? I followed all M3 and M4 and really want to play this one. Curses at that whole no-computer-all-Monday thing.
(c'mon somebody, drop out! No, don't, that's just me being selfish.)

[Blaster Master]

Who is number 30?
I removed MonkeyMensch errantly.

...gotta learn, read e-mail and PMs BEFORE posting. :smack:

[Blaster Master]

Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease still have room..... Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease..... Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease.....
CRAP.

Well, can I get a spot on the sub list at least? Please? I followed all M3 and M4 and really want to play this one. Curses at that whole no-computer-all-Monday thing.
(c'mon somebody, drop out! No, don't, that's just me being selfish.)

Sorry... but you're on the sub-list, so you'll probably have a chance.

[sachertorte]

I'm still confused, but that's okay. I'll just wait to see what shakes out.
I would like to point out that Dragoness has not had the opportunity to play before.

[Blaster Master]

Below is the final player list. Subs are at unnumbered. I will begin sending out PMs in a moment. You do not need to respond to my PM, but if you do not receive one within the next few hours, please PM me or post here.

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma
5 HockeyMonkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
29 MadTheSwine
30 Captain Klutz

KatiRoo
Dragoness

[Blaster Master]

I'm still confused, but that's okay. I'll just wait to see what shakes out.
I would like to point out that Dragoness has not had the opportunity to play before.

Confused about the rules? Now's a good time to ask.

[Dragoness]

Cool, I'll be following avidly.

Blaster, I think you've done a fantastic job with this ruleset. Trying to iron out specific problems from other games especially. I think you've created a fabulous mess (in the best possible way) and it'll be fun to watch.

Clarification: a few roles "investigate as" differently from their actual role. How much information will be revealed when these guys die? For instance, if town lynches the prophet, do they know they've lynched the prophet? Or do they think they hung a believer?

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I'd like to suggest (and you may already have thought of this) that if you are making a public vote count spreadsheet, be sure to note post number on the spreadsheet. This way we'll know how recent the count is.

--FCOD

[Blaster Master]

Cool, I'll be following avidly.

Blaster, I think you've done a fantastic job with this ruleset. Trying to iron out specific problems from other games especially. I think you've created a fabulous mess (in the best possible way) and it'll be fun to watch.

Clarification: a few roles "investigate as" differently from their actual role. How much information will be revealed when these guys die? For instance, if town lynches the prophet, do they know they've lynched the prophet? Or do they think they hung a believer?

As with the normal rules, death reveals all. That is, when anyone dies, regardless of how their true role investigates.

[fluiddruid]

What happens if the Avatar is night-killed rather than lynched?

[MadTheSwine]

*paces back and forth nervously*

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

What happens if the Avatar is night-killed rather than lynched?My interpretation is that if the Avatar is killed, whoever is responsible for killing him is also killed. So, if the Avatar is killed by a single player, that player is also killed. If the Avatar is killed by a vote, one of the voters (randomly selected) is killed.

--FCOD

[sachertorte]

Confused about the rules? Now's a good time to ask.

Nah, I'm good. I was confused as to who the 30th player was. I was still under the impression that MM was out, but it looks like PM discusssion says otherwise.

[NAF1138]

What happens if the Avatar is night-killed rather than lynched?


That is a good question.

[sachertorte]

My interpretation is that if the Avatar is killed, whoever is responsible for killing him is also killed. So, if the Avatar is killed by a single player, that player is also killed. If the Avatar is killed by a vote, one of the voters (randomly selected) is killed.

--FCOD

I disagree. The rules state that Sekham will be unaware of who performed a night kill of the Avatar. Unawareness == no kill.

[DiggitCamara]

Um, no, the only previous game I've played in was Mafia 2, and I was a Citizen.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about you. All the rest were masons though. And it just struck me as funny that we'd clustered like that.

In other words, it was a MPSIMS.

[Blaster Master]

I disagree. The rules state that Sekham will be unaware of who performed a night kill of the Avatar. Unawareness == no kill.

This was my intention. Here is the relevant quote from the rules:

Because the Crusader and Psychopath operate in the veil of night, Sekham will be unaware either is the culprit if he targets and kills the Avatar at night.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I disagree. The rules state that Sekham will be unaware of who performed a night kill of the Avatar. Unawareness == no kill.You're absolutely right. I didn't finish reading the entire role before I spoke. My interpretation is now the same as yours: the Avatar's ability only applies to lynchings.

--FCOD

[Blaster Master]

Zeriel, please turn on PMs.

All other PMs have been sent. If you have not received one, please let me know.

[Captain Klutz]

Okay Blaster Master, I've got my role.

It's now 1 o'clock in the morning so I'm off to get some sleep.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

I got my role. But BM...did you really think it would be a good idea to have Sekham as a fair secret role? I mean, I think it might unbalance the game a little bit, what with the invulnerability and the ability to smite townspeople at will...

--FCOD

[Blaster Master]

I got my role. But BM...did you really think it would be a good idea to have Sekham as a fair secret role? I mean, I think it might unbalance the game a little bit, what with the invulnerability and the ability to smite townspeople at will...

--FCOD

Well it WAS balanced until you went and blabbed it. Now the super secret role of Nairu knows who you are and will smite you instead! :p

[SnakesCatLady]

Got my PM. I'm starting my game sheets...

[Blaster Master]

Here is the current play list. Subs are listed unnumbered at the bottom. When subs are needed, I will PM the top five on the list, and the first to post in the thread will receive the spot. I will post the beginning after lunch.

1 ArizonaTeach
2 USCDiver
3 Idle Thoughts
4 Zuma
5 Hockey Monkey
6 storyteller0910
7 NAF1138
8 sachertorte
9 SnakesCatLady
10 Malacandra
11 Mtgman
12 Clockwork Jackal
13 Hal Briston
14 Pleonast
15 DiggitCamara
16 Fretful Porpentine
17 Captain Carrot
18 Pasta
19 FlyingCowOfDoom
20 Scuba_Ben
21 Queuing
22 Zeriel
23 MonkeyMensch
24 ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
25 Autolycus
26 HazelNutCoffee
27 MHaye
28 fluiddruid
29 MadTheSwine
30 Captain Klutz
Count

Millit the Frail
KatiRoo
Dragoness
Nava

[Hal Briston]

Woohoo! The M3 and Hispaniola sheets are now officially off the bulletin board, and Cult of Sekham sheets are up!

Now if we can just stop refining the "win condition" posts, so I don't have to reprint them, everything will be good... :)

[HazelNutCoffee]

*bounces up and down in anticipation* whendowestartwhendowestart?

[Hal Briston]

*bounces up and down in anticipation* whendowestartwhendowestart?What a perfect match between username and post. :)

[capybara]

Whoops-- Blaster, I just got your PM on the Boat-- since you have a full pile here I'll pass this time.

[Zeriel]

GAH, I thought I did. Stupid Zeriel!

PMs are on now.

[Hal Briston]

I know we haven't officially started yet, but...

<narrow-eyed stare>Man..."Zeriel"...is that a name that just screams "Cultist" or what?</narrow-eyed stare>

[Zeriel]

*hefts blacksmith hammer* Sorry, Hal, I think I misheard you. You SURE you want a horseshoe nailed to your privates?

[SnakesCatLady]

Real life is calling for the next couple of hours, so I will catch up when I get home about 3 or so.

Advance notice - I will not be available to post on the 4th of July; I am participating in my very first craft show selling my jewelry. Setup starts at 8am and it runs until 9pm so I won't be home until late that night.

[sachertorte]

I will not be available to post on the 4th of July
That will probably be true for most Americans. Perhaps we can get Blaster Master to declare the 4th a non-day.

[Hal Briston]

That will probably be true for most Americans. Perhaps we can get Blaster Master to declare the 4th a non-day.I don't think that'll be necessary, as long as the 4th is in the early part of a Day. Of course, we certainly should have a Day end on 7/4.

[Queuing]

That will probably be true for most Americans. Perhaps we can get Blaster Master to declare the 4th a non-day.

Well July 1st is Canada day, so what do we do about that?
How about European/Australians? They have the whole hour difference thing.

IMO, there is no need to declare a single day void. Its not like the day/night cycle only lasts a single real day. Plus it could be considered a strategy of sorts to force one of the cycles to fall on that day.

[NAF1138]

IMO, there is no need to declare a single day void. Its not like the day/night cycle only lasts a single real day. Plus it could be considered a strategy of sorts to force one of the cycles to fall on that day.


I agree that there shouldn't be a single day void, but how would you manage to make the day cycle end on a particular day?

[sachertorte]

I just mean extend the gameday to not count the 4th as part of the 5day gameday. In other words make the gameday that contains the 4th a 6day gameday.

[Projammer]

I ask to be taken out now.

*Hands MonkeyMensch a bag of peanuts for the spectators gallery*

Should be an intersting show.

[Blaster Master]

That will probably be true for most Americans. Perhaps we can get Blaster Master to declare the 4th a non-day.

I was actually thinking about that over lunch and planning on it. If activity is dwindling, which it likely will, I'll extend the Day.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, I'm drafting up the Start. Expect the Day to start within the hour.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

(Grips the "oh sh*t" handle as the roller coaster climbs) *click...click...click...*

[sachertorte]

*Hands MonkeyMensch a bag of peanuts for the spectators gallery*

Should be an intersting show.

Is Projammer in the game? or is MonkeyMensch? both? none? I thought I had the situation understood, but I'm confused again.

[Blaster Master]

Is Projammer in the game? or is MonkeyMensch? both? none? I thought I had the situation understood, but I'm confused again.
MonkeyMensch IS in the game. Projammer is not.

[Blaster Master]

I was asked if the Cult is allowed to perform no action at night.

The Cult MAY choose not to kill at night.

And just in case, the Psychopath MUST attempt a kill every night once activated.

All other Night roles may choose whether or not to use their powers, with the small exception of the Crusader (which I hope is still pretty clear from the rules).

[Zeriel]

I still haven't got a PM--is it still having problems?

[Pleonast]

(Grips the "oh sh*t" handle as the roller coaster climbs) *click...click...click...*Ok, now I have the willies.

[Scuba_Ben]

Ok, now I have the willies.
Maybe that's because you are Nuts.

(Okay, that's so obscure a reference that I've forgotten the title of the novella.)

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Why are you taking time to answer rule questions when you should be STARTING THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!1111one

--FCOD

[MadTheSwine]

Why are you taking time to answer rule questions when you should be STARTING THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!1111one

--FCOD

Really! We can figure those out as we go.

[Scuba_Ben]

Really! We can figure those out as we go.
I agree.

Rule 27: I don't want to catch anybody not drinking.

[sachertorte]

Maybe he's waiting for fifteen more posts so he can start the game at the top of the page.

[Hal Briston]

Might I just say that I fervently hope that the two of you (FCoD and Mad) are on opposite sides of the fence this time around?

[Hal Briston]

Maybe he's waiting for fifteen more posts so he can start the game at the top of the page.Oh...well, if that's the case, then let me just say...

[Hal Briston]

...that I'd be fine with that.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Might I just say that I fervently hope that the two of you (FCoD and Mad) are on opposite sides of the fence this time around?What's the matter Hal? Are you scared of Captain Pig and Dr. (FCO)Doom, the best pirate killing team around?

You wouldn't be fishing for power roles now, would you? FOS! :p

--FCOD

[Queuing]

I agree that there shouldn't be a single day void, but how would you manage to make the day cycle end on a particular day?

With my amazing persuasive powers? No, really I don't know. I just think that it could be somewhat helpful to the believers if the 4th fell on the night cycle as opposed to the day cycle. However it is much more likely that the 4th will fall on the day cycle.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

7 minutes to go!

--FCOD

[storyteller0910]

What's the matter Hal? Are you scared of Captain Pig and Dr. (FCO)Doom, the best pirate killing team around?

You wouldn't be fishing for power roles now, would you? FOS! :p

--FCOD

Flint and Steele!

I just got it.

Seriously.

[Hockey Monkey]

:::gearing up for poo-flinging action:::

:D

[Pasta]

It's spooky too see such a string of activated "user-is-online" indicators.

*work for 3 minutes*
*CTRL-R*
*work for 3 minutes*
*CTRL-R*
*work for 3 minutes*
*CTRL-R*

On edit: who am I kidding. It's "think about working for 12 seconds, CTRL-R"...

[Blaster Master]

The sun rises, oozing red and orange light over the quaint a village, Adamsborough, nestled in the rich fertile lands of the Farsunian Valley. Visitors often pass through for the night, as it is the only Inn within half a day's travel along the valley floor connecting the ancient Naruvian lands of the East to the frontier of the Western lands, and so new faces have become pretty much a fact of life in these parts. Strange that the past few weeks, often among the busiest of the year in preparation for the Summer Festivals, there have been few travellers. Perhaps word has gotten out of the strange happenings here.

Rumors have spread quickly of the the pest-ridden fields, the drought-plagued crops, and the vanishing livestock. Rumors have also passed that this is not due to some natural event, for surely Nairu watches over such a devout village. There are those who've come to fear that it is, in fact, worshippers of the ancient god Sekham who have brought the plague with them. Many of the village elders scoffed at the idea; that religion is long since abolished following the war of the ancients.

Ah... but the elders were wrong. This morning is not like any other morning; this morning is stained with blood. Just as the rooster crows the dawn, a piercing scream fills the air. The citizens flood the town square as a small girl runs from her home, her night gown soaked in the blood. Her father, the High Priest, has been slain, his eyes removed carefully without a drop of blood. A gaping wound in his chest, where his heart once beat, left devoid. The mark of Sekham, a Westward-facing skewed seven pointed star, carved delicately into his brow. This left no doubt that the Cult of Sekham was real and was, in fact, responsible for all the towns recent trials.

With the town's leader gone, the remaining citizenry, with fear only out measured by their paranoia, have gathered in the temple. Argument pervaded the halls for hours until the solution was finally reached: trial by blessed Naruvian waters. Nairu herself created the water and so only those devout in her belief can be submerged in water so blessed by the late priest. Surely though, even the faithful will drown, but at least they shall be spared their last rites and be pardoned post-humously.

-------------------------------------------------------

You may Begin. From hereforth, until the game is over, you will no longer be permitted to edit your posts in this thread.

The Day will end at 2:00 PM EDT, Sunday July 1.

[MadTheSwine]

:::gearing up for poo-flinging action:::

:D
Remember what I said about that last game HM ;)

[Hal Briston]

Ok, I'll kick this off with a strategy question:

Do believers care if non-believers live or die? Since A) Non-believers are capable of taking a win away from believers, and B) Scum show up in investigations as "non-believer", my initial thought is "no, not really...better them than me".

Off base or makes sense?

[Hal Briston]

you will no longer be permitted to edit your posts in this thread.
<snip>
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Last edited by Blaster Master : Today at 02:03 PM. Reason: Forgot the Signature Love it. :)

[NAF1138]

FINALLY!

I would like to start by FOSing Mad, for destroying the pirates chances in the last game, and being the first to post durring the day in this one.

AVAST!

er..I mean...HERETIC!

[Blaster Master]

Love it. :)
Well, if you'd rather I not provide nifty information in my signature... :p

[NAF1138]

Ok, I'll kick this off with a strategy question:

Do believers care if non-believers live or die? Since A) Non-believers are capable of taking a win away from believers, and B) Scum show up in investigations as "non-believer", my initial thought is "no, not really...better them than me".

Off base or makes sense?

I think I am being dense this morning, because I am sure that was a perfectly straightforward post but...I don't get your meaning.

[sachertorte]

Well Hal, you of all people know what greed lies in the hearts of men. I was surprised to find that a mason would try for a mason only win in M3 (namely you). Again, I feel it is in the best interest of non-believers to go for the town win, but your POV in M3 makes me wonder.

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Ok, I'll kick this off with a strategy question:

Do believers care if non-believers live or die? Since A) Non-believers are capable of taking a win away from believers, and B) Scum show up in investigations as "non-believer", my initial thought is "no, not really...better them than me".

Off base or makes sense?The only problem with this logic is that the Cultists win if they equal more than 50% of the Believers + Non-Believers. This makes the Non-Believers valuable to the town.

--FCOD

[Zeriel]

I'm personally inclined to agree with FCoD. If the town starts winning handily, time enough then to determine what to do about the non-believers in our midst--who, I might add, are not the ones who are violating and/or killing the rest of us.

[Scuba_Ben]

I partially disagree with sachertorte; it seems to me that if the masons / Non-believers think they have a shot at claiming their own win, they should try for it.

Meanwhile I'm trying to decide whether NAF1138's FOS was pure meta-gaming and/or significant in this game.

[Hal Briston]

I think I am being dense this morning, because I am sure that was a perfectly straightforward post but...I don't get your meaning.Basically, I was wondering if non-believers were looked at "nearly town" or "those outsiders over there". However, the point FCoD makes is enough for me to vote for the "off base" option in my post.

[MadTheSwine]

FINALLY!

I would like to start by FOSing Mad, for destroying the pirates chances in the last game, and being the first to post durring the day in this one.

AVAST!

er..I mean...HERETIC!

FOSing me for defeating scum? Still in scum mode NAF? :dubious:

[MHaye]

FINALLY!

I would like to start by FOSing Mad, for destroying the pirates chances in the last game, and being the first to post durring the day in this one.And I will start, as I always do, with a plea to everyone.

Please do not bring grudges into this game.1 Grudges are bad. Grudges distort the clear thinking necessary for rooting out the scum and bringing victory to the forces of Nairu. Suspecting people just on what they were is bad.

/end opening waffle.




1Yes NAF, I don't doubt you were joking with your FOS of The Iron Pig. It's just that it made a perfect hook for what I wanted to say. ;)

[Hal Briston]

I partially disagree with sachertorte; it seems to me that if the masons / Non-believers think they have a shot at claiming their own win, they should try for it.I think sachertorte point was that in M3, I started playing for a Mason-only win much earlier than was really wise. The fact that the Masons came close was due to an unimaginable bout of luck.

[Pasta]

Do believers care if non-believers live or die?
That seems to make sense. Certainly if there's nothing else to go on, then lynching a non-believer improves the odds compared to a random lynching. But I think believers still "care" if a non-believer dies (as FCoD said) since they are a portion of the town win condition.

Actually, I guess the inverse question exists too: do non-believers care if believers live or die? It would depend if the non-believers really really really want their own private win, or if they're happy to win with their brethren townsfolk. The shared win is certainly easier.

[storyteller0910]

Of course, two minutes after the game start post went up, my supervisor delivered a rush project to my desk that must be complete by 5:00PM. I will therefore be unlikely to post at all until this evening. Sorry!

[Hal Briston]

Actually, I guess the inverse question exists too: do non-believers care if believers live or die? It would depend if the non-believers really really really want their own private win, or if they're happy to win with their brethren townsfolk. The shared win is certainly easier.I suppose it would depend on how many of them there are to start.

Anyone care to speculate on the distribution this time around? We've got a larger starting pool than ever this time, and three groups instead of two.

With 30 players, what do you think, six cultists, give or take one? How about the non-believers...more or less than the cultists?

[HazelNutCoffee]

Oooh, it's started! *sits in the grass with a cup of coffee between her hands*

I agree that non-believers would probably find it easier to go for a shared win, at least in the beginning stages of the game. Depending on how the tide turns, however, they may find it easier to try and secure an individual win for themselves. If it comes to the point where the citizens are FUBAR, anyway. Hopefully it won't come to that.

*drinks more coffee* Mmm, coffee. Anyone want some? Gotta stay alert, ya know.

[NAF1138]

FOSing me for defeating scum? Still in scum mode NAF? :dubious:

Totally a joke, totally a joke. I didn't like the agressivly serious way I was trapped into playing the last game. I am trying to have more fun with it this time around.

And grudges are bad, so I will do my best to stop thinking of you as my arch enemy Mr. Pig and start thinking of you as simply Mad. (or if I am feeling silly, the MadPigBomberWhatPigsAtMidnight) :D

[Clockwork Jackal]

Hmmm...well, I'll post now, even though there's no real information to go on right now. Except for one little thing (which I'll get to in the next paragraph) no one really looks scummy to me yet. I think I'm just gonna play as though I'm getting killed tonight, and just tell everyone my thought processes. OK?


I'm personally inclined to agree with FCoD. If the town starts winning handily, time enough then to determine what to do about the non-believers in our midst--who, I might add, are not the ones who are violating and/or killing the rest of us.

Hmmm mentioning "town" separately as opposed to "us"? Could this be a scum tell? Or non-believer? Or just someone also voicing their thoughts and mis-speaking? Dammit, I don't know, it's so hard to tell. I've never played this game before, so I'm not completely sure what to look for.

Thoughts from everyone else?

[FlyingCowOfDoom]

Actually, I guess the inverse question exists too: do non-believers care if believers live or die? It would depend if the non-believers really really really want their own private win, or if they're happy to win with their brethren townsfolk. The shared win is certainly easier.Again, if there are more Cultists than Town (Believers + Non-Believers) both "good" factions lose. Therefore, it is in the best interests of both the Believers and the Non-Believers to want the other "good" faction to stay alive. In my opinion, it would be best for us to set aside our differences of opinion and work together to stamp out our common enemy -- the Cultists! Although we may disagree about our religion, we can all agree on one thing: having your eyeballs and heart removed sucks ass! Come, brothers and sisters, and let us unite! Together we can defeat our hate-filled nemeses! We shall prevail!!

...sorry, I got a little carried away there...

--FCOD

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Of course, two minutes after the game start post went up, my supervisor delivered a rush project to my desk that must be complete by 5:00PM. I will therefore be unlikely to post at all until this evening. Sorry!

I wouldn't worry too much. I think the sheer volume of posts and posters for the first few Days are going to make most of us appear "lurker-esque" compared to some of the other, smaller games. I don't mean to imply that you won't be missed...honest, there might be tears :D ... but you won't be missed.

[DiggitCamara]

I partially disagree with sachertorte; it seems to me that if the masons / Non-believers think they have a shot at claiming their own win, they should try for it.

Meanwhile I'm trying to decide whether NAF1138's FOS was pure meta-gaming and/or significant in this game.
Actually, the Masons in this game (a.k.a. Monks) don't have a particular win condition (they are simply pro-town).

The Non-Believers are actually handicapped "normal citizens".
1. They don't know each other
2. They'll be hunted by the Cultists (though not especially so)
3. They'll be hunted by the Crusader (s)he needs at least one Non-Believer/Cultist kill to fulfill his/her win conditions

During M3 we at least knew how many Masons were out there. The Non-Believers don't even know that.

[Pleonast]

... a small girl runs from her home, her night gown soaked in the blood. Her father, the High Priest, has been slain, his eyes removed carefully without a drop of blood. ...(Emphasis added.) Why was she soaked in blood, when the eyes were so carefully removed? FOS the little girl.

So, do we wish to dunk someone on the first Day? On one hand, it'll essentially be a random dunk, since we have little to nothing to go one. We can expect to kill one of our own. On the other hand, not dunking someone will give the initiative to the scum. And give us little more to go on when choosing the next Day's dunkee.

Personally, I think we should dunk someone.

And, on the basis of starting discussion, I'll randomly choose
Vote USCDiver
He'll like being the first in the water. :)

[NAF1138]

I suppose it would depend on how many of them there are to start.

Anyone care to speculate on the distribution this time around? We've got a larger starting pool than ever this time, and three groups instead of two.

With 30 players, what do you think, six cultists, give or take one? How about the non-believers...more or less than the cultists?


Well, not to TOTALLY meta game here, but I think I can help with this one. Blaster said that he ran his numbers through my formula when he was putting the game together and that things lined up with that fairly well.

I am not good enough with numbers to back compute, but this is what I gave to him. Maybe someone else can look at it and figure out a general idea of how many people there are in each group.

The first thing you want to do is make sure that as close to 1/2 of your population is vanilla as possible.

The ratio I was told after this is, a doctor or similar type of character is worth 1 scum. A detective or similar is worth 2. A GF type character -1 scum (immune from detective). Add 1 scum for every 3 masons. Add 1 scum for every 6 vanilla. Vig and SK do not effect the scum count.

Total scum should not exceed 1/4 of the total players.

So with 20 players, if you have more then 5 (maybe 6) scum, your game is broken off the bat. This means that you can have 1 detective type, 2 role blocker types, and 2 night killer types.

[sachertorte]

I would like to also point out that non-believers are NOT masons. They don't know who each other are, and therefore will have a harder time of encouraging a non-believer only win. On the otherhand, their non-masonhood makes it plausible that there are a significant number of non-believers at the start as it isn't nearly as game breaking as having a bunch of masons flitting about.

[Hal Briston]

Hmmm mentioning "town" separately as opposed to "us"?I dunno about that one...I don't think "town" was actually separate from "us".

If we reread the paragraph in question ("If the town starts winning handily, time enough then to determine what to do about the non-believers in our midst--who, I might add, are not the ones who are violating and/or killing the rest of us."), I see only two ways to reword it to make it fit your view. 1) "If we start winning handily...", but that gives no definition of "we", or 2) "...and/or killing the rest of use townies.", which would wind up coming across as "too town" for some people.

I'm inclined to give him a pass on this one.

[DiggitCamara]

(Emphasis added.) Why was she soaked in blood, when the eyes were so carefully removed? FOS the little girl.

So, do we wish to dunk someone on the first Day? On one hand, it'll essentially be a random dunk, since we have little to nothing to go one. We can expect to kill one of our own. On the other hand, not dunking someone will give the initiative to the scum. And give us little more to go on when choosing the next Day's dunkee.

Personally, I think we should dunk someone.

And, on the basis of starting discussion, I'll randomly choose
Vote USCDiver
He'll like being the first in the water. :)
No, no, NO!

The traditional first vote always should go to ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies.

vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

[NAF1138]

(Emphasis added.) Why was she soaked in blood, when the eyes were so carefully removed? FOS the little girl.

So, do we wish to dunk someone on the first Day? On one hand, it'll essentially be a random dunk, since we have little to nothing to go one. We can expect to kill one of our own. On the other hand, not dunking someone will give the initiative to the scum. And give us little more to go on when choosing the next Day's dunkee.

Personally, I think we should dunk someone.

And, on the basis of starting discussion, I'll randomly choose
Vote USCDiver
He'll like being the first in the water. :)

Can I just post a link to my arguments in M3 and the pirates game as to why I think this is a horrible way to go about things.

I know almost no one agrees with me...but it really is a HORRIBLE way to go about things.

[MonkeyMensch]

Of course, two minutes after the game start post went up, my supervisor delivered a rush project to my desk that must be complete by 5:00PM. I will therefore be unlikely to post at all until this evening. Sorry!

Acch! ST has a real life! Scum tell! ;)

Happy to be here and apologies for that last minute scurfluffle yesterday.

I'll just be here on the grass waiting for someone to walk by with a big-ass, black Book of Spells...

[DiggitCamara]

I would like to also point out that non-believers are NOT masons. They don't know who each other are, and therefore will have a harder time of encouraging a non-believer only win. On the otherhand, their non-masonhood makes it plausible that there are a significant number of non-believers at the start as it isn't nearly as game breaking as having a bunch of masons flitting about.
Beat you to it. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8718942&postcount=220)

[Scuba_Ben]

And, on the basis of starting discussion, I'll randomly choose
Vote USCDiver
He'll like being the first in the water. :)Coloring removed.
I'm going to have to support my fellow Nitrox-breather and suspect Pleonast. (Not that breathing 32% oxygen has anything to do with this game.)

[Zeriel]

Thanks, Hal, you just retraced my internal editing process.

[Clockwork Jackal]

Can I just post a link to my arguments in M3 and the pirates game as to why I think this is a horrible way to go about things.

I know almost no one agrees with me...but it really is a HORRIBLE way to go about things.

It doesn't seem smart to me either, I would think that maybe you might try to find little tells, even if one ends up being wrong. But I'm interested to find out why you don't think it's a good idea either.

So...why is it not a good idea?

[MadTheSwine]

Hmmm...well, I'll post now, even though there's no real information to go on right now. Except for one little thing (which I'll get to in the next paragraph) no one really looks scummy to me yet. I think I'm just gonna play as though I'm getting killed tonight, and just tell everyone my thought processes.

Thoughts from everyone else?

I have noticed two accepted scum tells so far(according to outside sources I have read), and as has been pointed out in other games, scum tells aren't always scum tells, but I think it's better than random votes at this point.
The first one is from you Clockwork, saying no one looks scummy.The second was from my good buddy Hal speculating on how many cultists and non-believers there are.
Course it is early,but those are my thoughts so far.

[Hockey Monkey]

Again, if there are more Cultists than Town (Believers + Non-Believers) both "good" factions lose. Therefore, it is in the best interests of both the Believers and the Non-Believers to want the other "good" faction to stay alive. In my opinion, it would be best for us to set aside our differences of opinion and work together to stamp out our common enemy -- the Cultists! Although we may disagree about our religion, we can all agree on one thing: having your eyeballs and heart removed sucks ass! Come, brothers and sisters, and let us unite! Together we can defeat our hate-filled nemeses! We shall prevail!!

...sorry, I got a little carried away there...

--FCOD

I agree that believers and non-believers alike should be playing to take out the Cultists. Later on in the game, it may become clear that one faction or the other can win, but for right now, we should band together and play like there are only 2 sides - good and evil. Now, everyone who is evil please raise your hands so I can get a count. :D



Darn it! Didn't work! :p

[Pleonast]

Can I just post a link to my arguments in M3 and the pirates game as to why I think this is a horrible way to go about things.

I know almost no one agrees with me...but it really is a HORRIBLE way to go about things.Please, go over your arguments again, for the new players at least.

I wasn't convinced because I don't see any better alternative. But I can be convinced otherwise.

[NAF1138]

It doesn't seem smart to me either, I would think that maybe you might try to find little tells, even if one ends up being wrong. But I'm interested to find out why you don't think it's a good idea either.

So...why is it not a good idea?


bah...let me dig up what I have said in the past. I will post it all in a bit, but basically my feeling is that random voting halts meaningful conversation and plays into the hands of the scum.

[sachertorte]

Can I just post a link to my arguments in M3 and the pirates game as to why I think this is a horrible way to go about things.

I know almost no one agrees with me...but it really is a HORRIBLE way to go about things.

Please do. Or, you know, cut and paste. (I don't really know what "it" is at this point)

If "it" is random votes. I'd like to distinguish between random votes and random dunking: They aren't the same thing. While town votes are random, scum votes are not random. And ultimately the end of day dunking will be resolved by something other than random votes.

I have an idea for a topic of discussion that could be nicely controversial, would that be better than random voting?

[Clockwork Jackal]

I have noticed two accepted scum tells so far(according to outside sources I have read), and as has been pointed out in other games, scum tells aren't always scum tells, but I think it's better than random votes at this point.
The first one is from you Clockwork, saying no one looks scummy.The second was from my good buddy Hal speculating on how many cultists and non-believers there are.
Course it is early,but those are my thoughts so far.

Well, I disagree with you on both counts. I said no one looks scummy except for one little thing, which Hal ended up explaining to my satisfaction.

And I think we certainly need to figure out how many cultists and non-believers there are! I would FOS you for saying we don't!

[Hal Briston]

I have noticed two accepted scum tells so far(according to outside sources I have read), and as has been pointed out in other games, scum tells aren't always scum tells, but I think it's better than random votes at this point.
The first one is from you Clockwork, saying no one looks scummy.The second was from my good buddy Hal speculating on how many cultists and non-believers there are.
Course it is early,but those are my thoughts so far.Trouble is, many of us have already give places like mafiascum.net a thorough read-through and are well aware what they call "accepted scum tell". The undoing of a lot of it is that many of them are either crap, or would be rookie mistakes. Recall the "3rd vote" bit in M4, as an example.

Yeah, we've got precious little to go on at the moment, but we're less than one hour into a Day that doesn't end for five more days. That's a lot of time for people to make posts that are actually incriminating.

[Hal Briston]

And on that note, time for lunch, and then I suppose I should get some work done when I get back. Be back posting in two hours or so....

[Pleonast]

bah...let me dig up what I have said in the past. I will post it all in a bit, but basically my feeling is that random voting halts meaningful conversation and plays into the hands of the scum.But what's the alternative?

Searching for tells? That'll end up with players magnifying every little syntactic oddity. That can be manipulated by scum just as easily as random votes.

Arguing about strategy? We should know by now that players on the same side can disagree about the best tactics.

We need to have a something to work with. That means players need to post. Random votes will do that. Interpret the actions/reactions for whatever you like.

NAF, you do agree we should dunk someone this Day?

[sachertorte]

I think MTS's point is that we don't really need to know how many cultists there are right now. Eventually it will become critical, but not for several days, so why waste discussion on something that isn't helpful today and distracts from our real and more immediate goal.

For example, there is a secret role. We don't know if this secret role is pro-town or not. If during the course of the game the role is revealed, then we will have better information regarding the number of likely cultists. So in that sense, discussing numbers later doesn't hurt us now, and could even be a benefit by avoiding unhelpful chatter.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

And I think we certainly need to figure out how many cultists and non-believers there are! I would FOS you for saying we don't!
On the cultist note: I kinda agree. Ultimately we won't have certainty about that number; however we'll have a good ballpark estimation sooner or later. NAF gave a good rule of thumb to get that figure (he modded M2; listen to him!).

The non-believers part is largely irrelevant. Even the non-believers don't know how many they are or who they are. They can't really play as a group.

[Scuba_Ben]

On the cultist note: I kinda agree. Ultimately we won't have certainty about that number; however we'll have a good ballpark estimation sooner or later. NAF gave a good rule of thumb to get that figure (he modded M2; listen to him!).In M3, there were 4 bad guys in 20 starting players. Extrapolating to our 30 starting players gives an estimate of 6 bad guys (+/- 1).

[MadTheSwine]

Well, I disagree with you on both counts. I said no one looks scummy except for one little thing, which Hal ended up explaining to my satisfaction.

And I think we certainly need to figure out how many cultists and non-believers there are! I would FOS you for saying we don't!

Gee... you disagree with me on the fact that I thought you made a scum tell? Imagine that.
I didn't say we didn't need to figure out how many N-B's and Cultists there are either,I said it was an accepted scum tell to bring it up.As far as figuring out how many there are..well,everyone can make a fairly educated guess, discussing it means nothing and gets us nowhere, as only the Cultists know for sure.
So on top of your original tell,I ain't to keen on revenge votes or word twisting either.
Anyhow you asked for my thoughts and I gave em to ya.*insert Pulp Fiction quote*
Vote Clockwork Jackal

[NAF1138]

But what's the alternative?

Searching for tells? That'll end up with players magnifying every little syntactic oddity. That can be manipulated by scum just as easily as random votes.

Arguing about strategy? We should know by now that players on the same side can disagree about the best tactics.

We need to have a something to work with. That means players need to post. Random votes will do that. Interpret the actions/reactions for whatever you like.

NAF, you do agree we should dunk someone this Day?

We need to establish what it is that players believe and how they behave. Random anything stops that. Saying that you are picking someone for no reason at all is a shield and yields absolutely no information, either about the person being voted for or the person doing the voting. ANY analysis, is better than no analysis.

Allow me to repost from M3 (with a couple of posts from Blaster in response) that argue my point. I am not going to post my Pirates posts right now, mostly because they are harder to sift though as many of them were made in Day .5.

Totally random voting is bad too though, because it will just muddy up the waters later. I am watching the results of this type of thoughtless random action right now in the other game. When you vote you have to be able to back it up with something, because you WILL get called on it eventually. And I think that saying, "well it was just a wild guess" isn't a great defense.

That being said, I know that at the end of the day most of the votes will be sorta random guesses. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold off voting for just a bit if we don't have something to go on.

Random voting gets us nowhere too.

I disagree. From my perspective, the only way we started getting information was when votes started piling up and people felt threatened of being lynched. Thus, I think the best approach is to pile up a few votes, get people to sweat, and see if they slip.

See and I think all that will do is get some role claims coming in before they should. Don't you think the town might be doing better in the other game if you hadn't been forced to claim so early, or if all the masons weren't forced to claim so early. Forcing early role claims isn't necessarily a good thing, especially if it is because of random voting.

I have some people pinging me right now, but so far nothing strong enough to get me to vote, so I won't vote now. I will talk to those people as they start to post more however, and see what they have to say.

We have time, we should use it.



IOW, yes, ending the first day early from forming a baseless bandwagon is bad, but failing to establish clusters and voting patterns gives us a relatively information free opening day and is thus, just as bad. The happy medium seems to me to throw some votes out, see how people react, and adjust the votes accordingly while making sure to let the day go the full 96 hours

This I can agree with

Remember, Blaster was scum in that game. He is arguing the point that is most beneficial to scum, while at the same time trying to placate me (who they ended up killing that night.)


Just saying. I am not saying all our votes have to be super meaningful right now. But they need to be based on something that is happening in the game. Not based on a persons name, not based on what random.org is telling you.

[NAF1138]

NAF, you do agree we should dunk someone this Day?

Almost forgot, yes I do agree we should dunk someone today.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

Just saying. I am not saying all our votes have to be super meaningful right now. But they need to be based on something that is happening in the game. Not based on a persons name, not based on what random.org is telling you.

There's an angle that has been pretty neglected: Remember that, as important it is to vote, it's equally important to remember the option to un-vote.

Especially during heated discussions, people like me sometimes tend to forget why they voted for someone in the first place. And it's always a good idea to re-think the whole thing from time to time and to un-vote as appropiate.

[Pleonast]

Eh, I'm still not convinced. In the same discussion in the Pirates game, you two took the same positions, but you were scum and Blaster was not.

Our goal is to get people posting. To build up some relationships. So when one of us turns up eyeless in the morning, we'll have something to go on.

Discussing strategy is good, as long as it doesn't develop into real divisions.

Picking apart other peoples' posts is an easy way for scum to start bandwagons. Using trivial nits to choose votes is no more accountable than random--just as easy for scum to hide behind.

Basing suspicions/votes on what's in the game doesn't work well on the first Day. That encourages lurking and puts an undue burden on the talkative. I think we need to get everyone in here and talking. Voting aggressively (even randomly) does that. I'm at least willing to take some heat to accomplish that.

Oh,
Unvote USCDiver
You're suspicion back on me would usually seem scummy to me. That's not a good way to dispel suspicion on yourself (attacking your attacker). But, I think in your case it's a the reaction of a newbie Townie. Be more careful in the future.

[Pleonast]

Doh! Off to a great start already. :smack:

I confused USCDiver and Scuba_Ben. They all look the same in those wetsuits.

I'll just shut up for a while...

[Scuba_Ben]

And in response I'll un-suspect Pleonast. As I noted when I signed up for this thread, I've never played before, so thanks for the advice on newbie mistakes.