Forbidden Thread: Mafia V

[storyteller0910]

Blaster Master -

You can decline to answer this question if you think it gives away too much info for this thread, but:

It would seem to me that, given Pleonast's claim and the implications of the name of the role he has claimed, he is very unlikely to be night killed by the Cult, possibly ever. It would further seem that the town has accepted him as a mostly confirmed townie, and is unlikely to lynch him during the Day. Given this, whatever Pleonast's powers actually are, have they now become essentially valueless, or is there some way they could still be activated?

[HazelNutCoffee]

I was wondering what would happen if the Disciple bluffed and said she was going to use the protect-two skill toNight, while instead protecting only the Apprentice. Presumably the Cult would target someone else if they thought their kill would be wasted on the Apprentice or the Disciple. Then the next night the Cult would try to kill the Apprentice, thinking he'd be unprotected, but the Disciple would still be protecting him.

It's a gamble though, since there is a chance that the Cult could call the bluff.

[Hal Briston]

How did you know he was the Apprentice? I thought the Apprentice knew who the Oracle was but not the other way around.I used my super-secret unlisted power:

After I died, I PM'd BM and asked him.
Incidentally, I am amused that I was investigated by both of you. Must've been annoying to discover I was a vanilla townie. Heh.Yes, very much so. :)

[storyteller0910]

Y'know, if Diggit is scum, he should counterclaim Apprentice. He has absolutely nothing to lose, because unless he does, he's getting lynched. At absolute worst he gets lynched anyway, but throws up a bunch of extra smoke on the way down. At best, he gets the town to lynch their Apprentice.

[Blaster Master]

Blaster Master -

You can decline to answer this question if you think it gives away too much info for this thread, but:

It would seem to me that, given Pleonast's claim and the implications of the name of the role he has claimed, he is very unlikely to be night killed by the Cult, possibly ever. It would further seem that the town has accepted him as a mostly confirmed townie, and is unlikely to lynch him during the Day. Given this, whatever Pleonast's powers actually are, have they now become essentially valueless, or is there some way they could still be activated?

The secret role still has a power that is perfectly suited to this situation. If anyone wants a less veiled answer than that, I can PM you a confirmation of the secret role and his powers.

[Blaster Master]

Oh, and, I have to say, Today is pretty darn exciting, there's SO many different ways this can go.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I used my super-secret unlisted power:

Dude, you so should have done that BEFORE you died. ;)

Gah, I want the secret role to do something exciting! :: fidgets in seat ::

[storyteller0910]

Interesting play by Diggit in his last post. Hmm. This game is going to turn on decisions made by the power roles in the next 48 hours or so, isn't it?

[HazelNutCoffee]

ARGH. I wish we could speak freely in this thread. :: chokes self ::

The whole non-believer read on scum is pretty frustrating. Blaster Master, you might as well admit it - you enjoy watching people suffer, don't you? :)

[storyteller0910]

ARGH. I wish we could speak freely in this thread. :: chokes self ::

The whole non-believer read on scum is pretty frustrating. Blaster Master, you might as well admit it - you enjoy watching people suffer, don't you? :)

See, I know some things. So everything that's happening right now is exceedingly interesting. Without giving too much away, there is one pro-town play that would give the town a guarantee of getting two more investigations out of mhaye - iron clad and absolute.

But I don't think they're going to recognize it for what it is. This is because they have internalized lessons from previous games to too significant a degree - they are playing their cards so close to the vest that they can't coordinate their actions.

[storyteller0910]

Queuing is killing me. Killing me. His insistence on silence at all costs is going to hurt the town, and badly. Augh.

[Blaster Master]

See, I know some things. So everything that's happening right now is exceedingly interesting. Without giving too much away, there is one pro-town play that would give the town a guarantee of getting two more investigations out of mhaye - iron clad and absolute.

But I don't think they're going to recognize it for what it is. This is because they have internalized lessons from previous games to too significant a degree - they are playing their cards so close to the vest that they can't coordinate their actions.

It's also a good thing I'm not in the town, because I'd be inclined to post the theory that MHaye could easily be lying because coming forth and claiming to A) instill disinformation, B) possibly convince the real Apprentice to give himself away, C) possibly get the Disciple to waste his protect all or at least his regular protect on scum.

I think at this point, the scum know they've played well, but they've poked around in the unconfirmed pool a bit too much and it could bite them in the butt. If they trade one scum, they could potentially get a virtually guaranteed attack on a known power role and have the town reeling with all the bad info.

Of course, if I were scum, I would have brought up that plan last Night when I thought of it. I guess, for the town's sake, it's a good thing I'm not playing, eh?

Oh, and storyteller, on further contemplation, there's actually a way to get around the two more guaranteed investigations by the Apprentice, but I think because of how tight-lipped the Disciple and the secret role have been, I'm not sure the cult will figure it out.

[storyteller0910]

It's also a good thing I'm not in the town, because I'd be inclined to post the theory that MHaye could easily be lying because coming forth and claiming to A) instill disinformation, B) possibly convince the real Apprentice to give himself away, C) possibly get the Disciple to waste his protect all or at least his regular protect on scum.

I think at this point, the scum know they've played well, but they've poked around in the unconfirmed pool a bit too much and it could bite them in the butt. If they trade one scum, they could potentially get a virtually guaranteed attack on a known power role and have the town reeling with all the bad info.

Of course, if I were scum, I would have brought up that plan last Night when I thought of it. I guess, for the town's sake, it's a good thing I'm not playing, eh?

Oh, and storyteller, on further contemplation, there's actually a way to get around the two more guaranteed investigations by the Apprentice, but I think because of how tight-lipped the Disciple and the secret role have been, I'm not sure the cult will figure it out.

Would you be willing to PM me what that way might be? 'Cause I can't think of a thing.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Queuing is killing me. Killing me. His insistence on silence at all costs is going to hurt the town, and badly. Augh.
I don't get Queuing's logic. The scum already have plenty of targets to choose from. If the Monks role-claim I'm sure one of them will get killed toNight, but at least it'll give the Apprentice a shorter list to choose from. (I was thinking it might also confuse the Cultists more, as they'll have to decide whether they should try hitting the Apprentice or the Disciple and risk wasting an effort, or go for a more certain kill.) The Apprentice has at least two nights more worth of investigation, if the town plays their cards right.

Of course, if the town is really unlucky the Apprentice will get a no-read toNight. :smack:

[Drain Bead]

So I re-upped after...something like six years without posting just for these games.

Does that mean I can get into the next one? ;D

[Kat]

Would you be willing to PM me what that way might be? 'Cause I can't think of a thing.
Me, either. Or at least promise to tell after the game ends?

And welcome back, Drain Bead!

[storyteller0910]

I don't get Queuing's logic. The scum already have plenty of targets to choose from. If the Monks role-claim I'm sure one of them will get killed toNight, but at least it'll give the Apprentice a shorter list to choose from. (I was thinking it might also confuse the Cultists more, as they'll have to decide whether they should try hitting the Apprentice or the Disciple and risk wasting an effort, or go for a more certain kill.) The Apprentice has at least two nights more worth of investigation, if the town plays their cards right.

Of course, if the town is really unlucky the Apprentice will get a no-read toNight. :smack:

Good grief, I just don't think I can keep watching this. Now Zeriel's out there making noises that not only does he not think the other Monks should claim, he actually is willing to vote for the people making the suggestion.

Why?

What on earth is the point of even having Monks (or similar roles) if you are not going to leverage them at key points in the game? This is such a critical moment for the town, but they're clinging to principles - Monks must never claim, power roles must never discuss their powers - without really giving any thought to the reasons behind those principles, or the fact that they don't always apply.

P.S. Hi, drainbead!

[Blaster Master]

Good grief, I just don't think I can keep watching this. Now Zeriel's out there making noises that not only does he not think the other Monks should claim, he actually is willing to vote for the people making the suggestion.

Why?

What on earth is the point of even having Monks (or similar roles) if you are not going to leverage them at key points in the game? This is such a critical moment for the town, but they're clinging to principles - Monks must never claim, power roles must never discuss their powers - without really giving any thought to the reasons behind those principles, or the fact that they don't always apply.

P.S. Hi, drainbead!

Actually, as I realized at the gym last night after I PMed you, I thought of a truly devastating scenario that could pretty much make this whole apprentice discussion moot... the scum could take out 3 confirmed townies, including the apprentice and a monk, and get one or more of their own "confirmed townie", all at the expense of giving up one of their least trusted cultists...

ETA: The whole point of me mentioning this was that, if this scenario played out, it most benefits the town if the remaining monks are unknown to the cult until afterwards, otherwise the Disciple will be spread too thin to be remotely effective.

[storyteller0910]

Actually, as I realized at the gym last night after I PMed you, I thought of a truly devastating scenario that could pretty much make this whole apprentice discussion moot... the scum could take out 3 confirmed townies, including the apprentice and a monk, and get one or more of their own "confirmed townie", all at the expense of giving up one of their least trusted cultists...

ETA: The whole point of me mentioning this was that, if this scenario played out, it most benefits the town if the remaining monks are unknown to the cult until afterwards, otherwise the Disciple will be spread too thin to be remotely effective.

So I replied to your PM, but I'll also post here to say that I think that if the Town arrays its defenses properly in the next two Nights (not likely), and if the Monks declare (not happening today, it seems), I do believe it would be impossible for the town to lose (barring recruitment - but I believe they tried to recruit Fretful, failed, then killed her).

Which is why I will take as the chief lesson from this game that it is possible for pro-town power roles to be too tight lipped.

:smack:

[HazelNutCoffee]

Welcome Diggit. Again. ;)

[DiggitCamara]

Welcome Diggit. Again. ;)
Thanks. I knew my goose was cooked once MHaye had published his list and PygmyRugger had pointed out I was the only supposed Non Believer on it, so I tried to put my best strategies out there.

On another note, since I definitely won't be subbing in again, would storyteller please PM me his "funny story"? And Hal, would you mind sending me your link?

I'm jonesing for info. :D

[Hal Briston]

On another note, since I definitely won't be subbing in again, would storyteller please PM me his "funny story"? And Hal, would you mind sending me your link?

I'm jonesing for info. :DThe link is woefully unupdated (most of the info is now common knowledge), but it's on it's way nonetheless. Welcome (back) to the other side!

[DiggitCamara]

The link is woefully unupdated (most of the info is now common knowledge), but it's on it's way nonetheless. Welcome (back) to the other side!
And still, I'll say it was definitely a funny story (storyteller's)

[Fretful Porpentine]

:: groan :: Well, I can't say I'm really surprised; MHaye was due for a wrong reading. Hope he can pull one out tonight that identifies a real scum.

[Stanislaus]

Is it not better for him to identify town? Accurate Non-Believer readings don't necessarily get scum, but the more confirmed people the town has the better, right?

[DiggitCamara]

Is it not better for him to identify town? Accurate Non-Believer readings don't necessarily get scum, but the more confirmed people the town has the better, right?
I think that line of reasoning is right. Which is why I advocated the mason's outing...

[Fretful Porpentine]

I see what you're saying, but I think the town needs to identify another Cultist ASAP if they're to have a prayer of pulling out a victory.

[DiggitCamara]

I see what you're saying, but I think the town needs to identify another Cultist ASAP if they're to have a prayer of pulling out a victory.
Right. And if the Monk's step out into the open, they'll have a better chance.

If MHaye is the true Disciple, his string of "hits" make me believe he's due for a miss, anyhow.

[Blaster Master]

I see what you're saying, but I think the town needs to identify another Cultist ASAP if they're to have a prayer of pulling out a victory.

Actually, based on my estimation, I think the game is actually pretty darn close to even right now because even though the cult has done a pretty good job of avoiding suspicion, I think they needed to catch either the apprentice and/or the disciple by now to have maintained their momentum. There's a considerable number of largely confirmed citizen.

However, as I discussed with storyteller of PM, it looks like there's a way to virtually lock up a town win at this point... the problem is, it would require certain roles to know information about certain other roles that, not knowing it, seems like a very bad idea to share. Plus there's still the prophet who will show up as believer, the unknown possibility of the conversion, and no one has a clue who the avatar... and any of those three could easily swing the game in either direction.

Either way, this is exciting pretty exciting, and it's kind of funny because both sides feel like they're losing pretty badly. :p

[Scuba_Ben]

It's been something like 8 Days, and the town's caught only one scum -- this is "pretty darn close"??? I'd hate to see what "scum cakewalk" looks like from the wrong side.

At this point, I hope the surviving town starts looking hard at who's doing the most to get people (townies) lynched. Without knowing what's being discussed on the scum board, I suspect that Bad Guys are in infuential positions in this game.

[DiggitCamara]

It's been something like 8 Days, and the town's caught only one scum -- this is "pretty darn close"??? I'd hate to see what "scum cakewalk" looks like from the wrong side.

(snip)

They were only an Apprentice away from the "scum cakewalk".

[Fretful Porpentine]

So what do we think about zuma's accusations? In vino veritas?

Me, I'm pretty sure MHaye is legit. It seems to me that a fake apprentice who was trying to construct a plausible claim would have thrown at least one cloudy or verifiably wrong reading into his claim post, and that this reading would most likely have come somewhere in the middle. MHaye's pattern of one wrong reading - a string of six correct readings - another wrong reading is consistent with how random items are distributed in real life, but not with how most people think they're distributed. (In other words, someone who flips a coin 100 times is likely to have some long strings of heads or tails -- HHHHH or TTTTTT -- while someone who is pretending to have flipped a coin a hundred times would tend to avoid those long strings, because we think they look implausible. If that makes sense at all.)

Maybe it's just as well they went after Zeriel, if his death causes the other monks to claim.

[Captain Klutz]

Well, zuma can only be so confident if he is in fact the Apprentice. If that's the case then it looks as if the Cultists decided to sacrifice MHaye in order to get the Disciple to use the once-only 'protect 2 players' power, in which case there will be no protection tonight (except from the Martyr, but we don't know how that works).

I'm not sure if the Cult would really think that was necessary, as they seem to be way ahead (although Blaster Master said that the Cultists also felt as if they were losing badly, which I really don't understand).

And if MHaye is lying then he has come up with a pretty courageous claim, with no missed readings AOD and 2 new confirmed Believers (FCOD and sachertorte). If either of those were non-believers then Mhaye would have been exposed without outing the real Apprentice. Okay, sachertorte is away but if MHaye turns out to be Cult then FCOD probably is too. It would have been far safer (and even look more plausible) to simply report 1 less reading.

And yes, I think the remaining Monks should claim, just so the Apprentice does not waste a reading on one of them. In fact, the non-believers should also claim - they will eventually be dunked as a result but again, as part of the town they can't afford to waste any Apprentice readings (I would have role claimed yesterDay if I was still playing).

[Zeriel]

Ow! My most of me!

Part of my problem playing a Monk is the fact that I was uncomfortable making a decision FOR the monks given the circumstances (and you can PM me, if you'd like to know what I mean).

I'd also like a PM of storyteller's funny story.

Frankly, I think the town still has a decent chance now. The scum wasted a perfectly good night kill on little old me instead of making the right play for either the disciple or apprentice--the fact they killed me instead of fishing in the pool tells me that Mhaye and CatinaSuit are both on the up and up, since slaying a monk isn't exactly a coup.

[Zeriel]

I don't know WHAT Zuma's deal is. I'm waiting anxiously to hear about it.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

And if MHaye is lying then he has come up with a pretty courageous claim, with no missed readings AOD and 2 new confirmed Believers (FCOD and sachertorte). If either of those were non-believers then Mhaye would have been exposed without outing the real Apprentice. Okay, sachertorte is away but if MHaye turns out to be Cult then FCOD probably is too. It would have been far safer (and even look more plausible) to simply report 1 less reading.

(snip)

Actually, I'd guess what the Cultists really wanted was to draw the Apprentice out last Day.

The thing is: with zuma's claim the probable result will be that he'll be lynched toDay.

Right now, there are 14 remaining players. Let's suppose toDay the town loses two players. At worst we're talking then about toMorrow, with 12 players, 4 of them Cultists.

The problem is that toMorrow a Cultist will die. And the investigations will have thrown in information that will (probably) cast a spotlight on several players... It's going to be an interesting couple of Days...

[Zeriel]

Oh, for the love of pete, the monk claims. NOW I know why the cult killed me.

[Zeriel]

Augh. How can this be MORE suspenseful now that I'm dead?

[Kat]

How do you think we feel? We've been going through this a lot longer than you.

Have some alcohol. It helps.

[Zeriel]

Yeah, true--but I also now realize I was killed to set up the great monk shakedown of 2007.
Today's probably going to be the turning point unless one side or the other blinks again.

[Zeriel]

I'm talking and I can't shut up!

I think probably if I'm right about the number of scum, though, that they're risking far too many of themselves on this Monk play--at most, they get one townie monk dunk in trade for two of themselves. Since I guess at 3-5 scum left, losing two will hurt.

[Captain Klutz]

And sachertorte has just announced his return. This is going to be interesting to watch...

[Stanislaus]

MHaye investigated sachertorte - he can say for sure if he's a monk (assuming people believe MHaye). I think the cult have overreached themselves...

[Captain Klutz]

MHaye investigated sachertorte - he can say for sure if he's a monk (assuming people believe MHaye). I think the cult have overreached themselves...
Holy crap, what's going on? MHaye has just revealed that sachertorte is a Monk, so Idle Thoughts must be lying, so both he and zuma must be Cult (or both MHaye and Cookies are Cult, but I would have expected the real Apprentice to have claimed by now).

It looks like the Zeriel night kill and the Monk claim were for the purpose of flushing out the remaining Monks, so that the Cult can reliably recruit. The recruit is going to be extremely difficult to identify, so the town needs to go after the Prophet to stop this happening. This means that toDay they need to leave both Idle Thoughts and zuma alone and dunk one of the unknown players (but I've no idea which one). Also, the Alchemist should block Idle Thoughts.

Interestingly, Idle Thoughts was the final vote that dunked Kat over Malacandra on Day 2. This gained Idle lots of town cred, so why is he the one to sacrifice himself? I don't understand...

This game has really come alive.

[Kat]

:smack:

[Zeriel]

Right now, a tentative guesswork:

Hockey is playing both sides against the middle by trying to divert away from the potential Prophet.
The cult forgot MHaye could do that.
There will probably be a conversion attempt tonight.
There are at least four cultists left, otherwise this play is insane instead of just crazy enough to work.

Now I'm interested in knowing what the rationale for saving Mal's ass by Idle was--that seems in retrospect like a bad play if he is in fact scum.

[Doctor Who]

Jeez - what to make of Idle's incessant kill-me-now droning?

[storyteller0910]

Without giving away the truth officially -

Maybe it's just that I know the truth, but I can't believe it isn't wildly obvious to the town what's going on. This is utterly bizarre. I have a feeling that I know the next leg of the scum move, and if it is what I think it is, then I will be terribly impressed.

[Zeriel]

Without giving away the truth officially -

Maybe it's just that I know the truth, but I can't believe it isn't wildly obvious to the town what's going on. This is utterly bizarre. I have a feeling that I know the next leg of the scum move, and if it is what I think it is, then I will be terribly impressed.

Could you PM me with your analysis? I wanna see if it matches my thoughts.

[storyteller0910]

The one other thing I want to say in public is that I think what the scum have done brilliantly in this game is take advantage of the town's tendency to avoid Occam's Razor. The town has demonstrated over and over again that they will reject simpler explanations in favor of more complex - and less likely - explanations. They basically have all the tools they need to win the game, but because the scum is playing perfectly on their need to overanalyze and keep secrets from one another, they are about to hand it over on a platter. It's amazing.

I mean, there's one player with a potentially game-changing ability that he still hasn't even described to the rest of the town yet. That's information hoarding to a point that just astounds me.

[Scuba_Ben]

I mean, there's one player with a potentially game-changing ability that he still hasn't even described to the rest of the town yet. That's information hoarding to a point that just astounds me.
I seem to recall that the Alchemist can mix up a Block All Other Night Actions potion, would that be it?

I have NO idea what to make of the conflicting Monk role-claims. Who to believe?

[Captain Klutz]

Without giving away the truth officially -

Maybe it's just that I know the truth, but I can't believe it isn't wildly obvious to the town what's going on. This is utterly bizarre. I have a feeling that I know the next leg of the scum move, and if it is what I think it is, then I will be terribly impressed.
Well, I feel a bit stupid because I still can't see it. If MHaye is lying then either the real Apprentice is drunker than zuma, or MHaye was recruited on Night 6. Recruiting MHaye and finding that he was the Apprentice could explain the demise of the Priest on Night 7, but he seems an unlikely recruit as he was under great suspicion.

In addition, if MHaye, sachertorte and Cookies are all false claiming then they are giving up 3 Cultists, including their recruit. This seems an awfully high price to pay - even if they only need 1 more town dunk to win, this looks like an incredibly risky way to do it.

Why are the Cultists so anxious to flush out the Monks?

[Kat]

The suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts.

[Zeriel]

My guess it that they're flushing out the monks because they HAVEN'T recruited yet. It only makes sense.

[storyteller0910]

My guess it that they're flushing out the monks because they HAVEN'T recruited yet. It only makes sense.

Yeah, I guess you're right about that. But given this fact, why has no one in the town twigged to the obvious - if they've already recruited mhaye, they have no need to flush out the Monks. If they haven't recruited mhaye then that must mean...

Honestly, I think the problem is that the town has had so many frustrating setbacks - losing the Oracle and Crusader out of the blue early, before either could make any kind of impact (well, other than killing one of their Monks, in the case of the latter), the sudden death of the priest, the rash of mislynches - that they're really eager for a simple, neat solution. They want to believe that the recruitment has already happened, and that they've uncovered the recruit and two of his scum compatriots, that the scum have come out and gift-wrapped this whole thing.

Ignoring the fact that this would be an amazingly stupid scum play. If you recruit someone, it would seem like your first priority would be to keep him incognito. You want to hide your recruit, because he can frustrate the Apprentice, he has a record of genuine pro-town behavior on which to fall back. You don't want to develop a plan in which your recruit is going to be quickly and easily outed.

Really, what benefit would it be to the scum to have two of their own false claim Monk, and have their hypothetical recruit blow his own cover by backing them up? All this, just to - what? - have a 50% chance of getting one Monk lynched? It's an incredibly convoluted plan, that would have had to be put in motion ages ago, and for a benefit that simply isn't worth losing three scum. It doesn't make sense.

I can't believe people are saying that the "safest" play is lynching sachertorte. No. The safest play is to go along with your Apprentice. If he turns out to be lying, and Idle Thoughts is a Monk, then go in the other direction. Augh! What is up with these people?

And breadcrumbs? Really? You're asking the Monks for breadcrumbs? Why would the Monks want to breadcrumb their associations with one another? So that when one of them gets killed, the scum can nail the others? The Monks should be assiduously avoiding breadcrumbs, which ought to be another nail in Idle Thoughts' coffin.

Double augh!

[DiggitCamara]

Yeah, I guess you're right about that. But given this fact, why has no one in the town twigged to the obvious - if they've already recruited mhaye, they have no need to flush out the Monks. If they haven't recruited mhaye then that must mean...

Honestly, I think the problem is that the town has had so many frustrating setbacks - losing the Oracle and Crusader out of the blue early, before either could make any kind of impact (well, other than killing one of their Monks, in the case of the latter), the sudden death of the priest, the rash of mislynches - that they're really eager for a simple, neat solution. They want to believe that the recruitment has already happened, and that they've uncovered the recruit and two of his scum compatriots, that the scum have come out and gift-wrapped this whole thing.

Ignoring the fact that this would be an amazingly stupid scum play. If you recruit someone, it would seem like your first priority would be to keep him incognito. You want to hide your recruit, because he can frustrate the Apprentice, he has a record of genuine pro-town behavior on which to fall back. You don't want to develop a plan in which your recruit is going to be quickly and easily outed.

Really, what benefit would it be to the scum to have two of their own false claim Monk, and have their hypothetical recruit blow his own cover by backing them up? All this, just to - what? - have a 50% chance of getting one Monk lynched? It's an incredibly convoluted plan, that would have had to be put in motion ages ago, and for a benefit that simply isn't worth losing three scum. It doesn't make sense.

I can't believe people are saying that the "safest" play is lynching sachertorte. No. The safest play is to go along with your Apprentice. If he turns out to be lying, and Idle Thoughts is a Monk, then go in the other direction. Augh! What is up with these people?

And breadcrumbs? Really? You're asking the Monks for breadcrumbs? Why would the Monks want to breadcrumb their associations with one another? So that when one of them gets killed, the scum can nail the others? The Monks should be assiduously avoiding breadcrumbs, which ought to be another nail in Idle Thoughts' coffin.

Double augh!


Yeah. Seems to me that the one big mistake during this Day is that, actually, zuma's "drunken post" (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8892055&postcount=3140) actually contradicts Idle's claim (that they are monks).

After all, what evidence would a Monk have that the Apprentice has been lying?

And, story, you are referring to the mysterious powers of the Martyr, aren't you?

[storyteller0910]

Yeah. Seems to me that the one big mistake during this Day is that, actually, zuma's "drunken post" (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8892055&postcount=3140) actually contradicts Idle's claim (that they are monks).

After all, what evidence would a Monk have that the Apprentice has been lying?


This is true.


And, story, you are referring to the mysterious powers of the Martyr, aren't you?

I am, yes.

[DiggitCamara]

This is true.



I am, yes.
Sadly, we're not in the game anymore...

I know. I know. I'm sorry. :(

[storyteller0910]

Sadly, we're not in the game anymore...

I know. I know. I'm sorry. :(

They could, hypothetically, still pull this out. sachertorte's most recent post says basically the same thing I just said - that Idle's theory is so convoluted and requires so many things to have fallen correctly that it is much safer to go with the more likely option first.

Other than the ones who have essentially outed themselves with this action, I know of - I think - two remaining scum. The town has what I consider to be an excellent lead on one of them that it is ignoring but may not ignore forever, and another seems to me to be trying a bit too hard to spin the events of toDay in a pro-scum direction. If the town makes the right choice here, and if mhaye, Pleonast, Catinasuit, and hockey monkey use their various powers intelligently over the course of the next few Days, the town has an excellent chance of winning this game. Remember, those four are all confirmed pro-town, in essence; add the two Monks to that and you have six, which is enough to pretty much hammer down every unconfirmed player in the game, with investigation results a supplemental resource.

Which reminds me - did mhaye reveal any results toDay?

We'll see.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

Which reminds me - did mhaye reveal any results toDay?

We'll see.
Yep. Investigation of Queuing, no results.

[Zeriel]

What really bothers me is that Catinasuit leaves out the possibility of scum recruitment toNight in his/her consequence lists. That changes the calculus significantly.

Augh. Today is a big tipping point, because if they haven't converted and they can, they're going to get MHaye tonight.

[Stanislaus]

What's bothering me is that people are advocating voting based not on "who do you think is scum?" but on "who would it be advantageous to find out was scum?". It's the same over-analysis we did all game, but from the outside it's much more obvious. (And frustrating!)

[DiggitCamara]

What's bothering me is that people are advocating voting based not on "who do you think is scum?" but on "who would it be advantageous to find out was scum?". It's the same over-analysis we did all game, but from the outside it's much more obvious. (And frustrating!)
I've got to hand it to Idle, though. Without anyone to back him up he has single-handedly managed to turn the tide against sachertorte.

Think about it:

1. sachertorte's claim is backed by MHaye (he investigated him and he came back Monk)
2. Cookies backs sachertorte's claim and vice-versa
3. zuma's drunken claim, like I said before, actually contradicts his pal's (Idle)

And still... people are voting against sachertorte?

[storyteller0910]

I've got to hand it to Idle, though. Without anyone to back him up he has single-handedly managed to turn the tide against sachertorte.

Think about it:

1. sachertorte's claim is backed by MHaye (he investigated him and he came back Monk)
2. Cookies backs sachertorte's claim and vice-versa
3. zuma's drunken claim, like I said before, actually contradicts his pal's (Idle)

And still... people are voting against sachertorte?

Not just people. Townies.

It's amazing.

[Zeriel]

Problem is, I'm willing to bet that many of my scum picks were right all along--I'm watching who's driving this discussion which ways, and my only hope is that the town is too.

It really seems like Idle's resting on the strength of a lot of ongoing suspicion of Sach and MHaye, bolstered by his own play to put the ice on Kat early in the game. I fully credit him with enough foresight to have traded a scum for the chance to pull something like this off in the endgame.

[DiggitCamara]

Problem is, I'm willing to bet that many of my scum picks were right all along--I'm watching who's driving this discussion which ways, and my only hope is that the town is too.

(snip)

Sorry, but which are your scum picks?

I remember you felt I was scum.

On my part, I'm pretty convinced Idle and zuma are scum. As well as Kyrie. Other than that, who knows? But I'm growing convinced FCoD is scum, hidden as a Believer.

And I'm almost certain there hasn't been a recruitment. It may happen toNight, though. With the monks out and the Disciple's resources tied up, there almost certainly will be recruitment.

[Zeriel]

A lot of ones I let convince me instead of going with my gut--specifically, NAF, Kyrie, and Pygmy.

I agree with you on the recruitment. That'll muddy the waters like madness.

[Zeriel]

Also, Idle's constant flipping his shit is arguably the most entertaining portion of the game thus far, regardless of what side he's on.

[DiggitCamara]

I'd have to agree with you on that last point, Zeriel. It was horribly annoying in-game though (M4). But as a spectator it's really funny.

And I wonder how zuma will explain his early MOrning posts. HockeyMonkey seems to be catching on.

[Scuba_Ben]

I have to agree with Zeriel -- Idle's flipping out is far more fun to watch than my own flip-out was.

I think there's three possibilities.
1. MHaye is telling the truth about his investigations; the Cultists are trying to discredit him to save their own necks.
2. MHaye was recruited, and is lying like crazy about his investigations; the Cultists are fighting off a last-ditch surge by the Town.
3. The real apprentice is making a big mistake by not unmasking MHaye.

I'm inclined to think the town's in case 1.

[Zeriel]

Best indicator of scenario 1: no counterclaim.

I'd love someone to bring up the idea of trying to ferret out the prophet since the cult wouldn't risk them on this monk play. Just, y'know, to see what happens.

[Zeriel]

I'm also seeing some people pushing a TAD too hard--if Idle is scum, their whole play is gonna fall apart around them, I bet.

[storyteller0910]

I'm also seeing some people pushing a TAD too hard--if Idle is scum, their whole play is gonna fall apart around them, I bet.

I'll say. One player, in particular, seems to be reaching a bit too hard for a reason, however flimsy, to vote in a certain way. If Idle is revealed, I think that's going to look a bit more obvious.

[Blaster Master]

Wow! This is going to be a lot of fun to Tonight!

[Zeriel]

Matter of fact, I see only one likely scum who's playing this properly cool enough.

[Zeriel]

aand, I have to laugh at zuma patting the scum on the backs. That stuff is priceless.

[Hal Briston]

Also, Idle's constant flipping his shit is arguably the most entertaining portion of the game thus far, regardless of what side he's on.If I were a girl, I'd so try and date him. I'd play it cool for a couple of weeks, and then tell him that one of my friends saw him picking up another girl at a club, and that we were over because he's such a cheater.

Then I'd pull out an umbrella so I wouldn't get pieces of his exploding head all over me.

[DiggitCamara]

If I were a girl, I'd so try and date him. I'd play it cool for a couple of weeks, and then tell him that one of my friends saw him picking up another girl at a club, and that we were over because he's such a cheater.

Then I'd pull out an umbrella so I wouldn't get pieces of his exploding head all over me.
That made me laugh.

But, alas, he seems to have stopped his exploding bit. But seriously, wouldn't zuma's best strategy have been to fade into the background?

[Zeriel]

Keeps getting more interesting and more interesting.

I just hope town realizes that Idle and Zuma's entire rationale is based on "look at what happened in this unrelated game!" before sach accidentally sticks his foot in his mouth again.

[storyteller0910]

Shit, Queuing's got the scum approach pretty much figured out. They want to make sure they manage a recruitment. False claim and either you die or a townie dies - and if it's the latter, hey, bonus! - but the Prophet does not, and that's what you want. Then, tonight, you recruit.

I can't believe how little people are paying attention to Queuing. If this Day goes sour, he's going to go apeshit when he finally learns that he was right all along.

[Blaster Master]

Here's what gets me... for the arguments that MHaye was recruited... why are they ignoring the possibility that MHaye may have been scum all along, they recruited someone else, who was the Apprentice, which would then allow any of them to claim Apprentice if needed?

[storyteller0910]

Here's what gets me... for the arguments that MHaye was recruited... why are they ignoring the possibility that MHaye may have been scum all along, they recruited someone else, who was the Apprentice, which would then allow any of them to claim Apprentice if needed?

Hey, wow, that's a neat idea.

Hey, since you've probably heard from Pleonast on a regular basis, can you explain to me what benefit he sees to withholding information on his powers? He claims it would help the Cult more than the Town, but I don't understand that statement - if he explained exactly what he can do, he could coordinate with other power roles (as we've discussed). I can't see a single advantage it would give the Cult.

[Scuba_Ben]

Here's what gets me... for the arguments that MHaye was recruited... why are they ignoring the possibility that MHaye may have been scum all along, they recruited someone else, who was the Apprentice, which would then allow any of them to claim Apprentice if needed?
This possibility seems functionally identical to him being a converted Apprentice. If this is the case, the town lynches him, finds out he's normal scum, then REALLY freaks out.

[Blaster Master]

Hey, wow, that's a neat idea.

Hey, since you've probably heard from Pleonast on a regular basis, can you explain to me what benefit he sees to withholding information on his powers? He claims it would help the Cult more than the Town, but I don't understand that statement - if he explained exactly what he can do, he could coordinate with other power roles (as we've discussed). I can't see a single advantage it would give the Cult.

Well, without openly giving any information away, I think since MHaye claimed apprentice, he's been making the correct choice, given the information available to him. You have to also consider the town has a general idea of what his role may be, thanks to the link that Sachetorte gave. It also seems to me, from actions in thread, that the Disciple believes that is his power and is making decisions based on that belief.

IMO, there is specific information that he has that could actually result in a townie kill versus a cult kill, if they have that information.

[Blaster Master]

This possibility seems functionally identical to him being a converted Apprentice. If this is the case, the town lynches him, finds out he's normal scum, then REALLY freaks out.

It's functionally equivalent, but provides a huge amount of flexibility for role-claiming. I'm just really surprised that hasn't come to people like Queuing or Idle or FCoD or Zuma.

Without giving away the alignments of the true monks, I have to say, if the cult pulls this off, I'll be DAMN impressed, because it's a ballsy move.

[Hal Briston]

I'm surprised no one has floated the possibility that there are two sets of monks. After all, the description says "They know who other monks are", not "They know who all other monks are".

[Blaster Master]

I'm surprised no one has floated the possibility that there are two sets of monks. After all, the description says "They know who other monks are", not "They know who all other monks are".

Haha... that would've been just evil of me, wouldn't it? That would make the role overall a negative for the town, because a claim would be met with "No you're not, I am!" So they lynch one, find out he's a monk, lynch the other, then find out he's a monk, then go "WTF!?"

[Zeriel]

Looks to me like sach just took Idle behind the rhetorical woodshed.

Also, I see now that Idle has given up the king ranter crown we have a new contender to the throne in NAF.

[Zeriel]

WOW, tempers are flaring. I wonder what the hell is going on?

[storyteller0910]

I do believe that Idle is laying down his metaphorical sword. Damn well played, too - he gets exactly what he wants. No one chases the prophet, because this argument distracted them from doing so. No one is buying Queuing's really smart approach.

Recruitment coming up tonight.

Although.

hockey monkey, at least, knows hockey monkey is telling the truth. Seems like she should use her sleeping potion on kyrie again tonight, just to see, yes?

This is so freaking interesting.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)
Recruitment coming up tonight.

Although.

hockey monkey, at least, knows hockey monkey is telling the truth. Seems like she should use her sleeping potion on kyrie again tonight, just to see, yes?

This is so freaking interesting.

Absolutely. Recruitment toNight (and a pretty good chance of success). Of course, if the multi-protection hasn't been used up, there's some chance of a block there, too.

If I was hockey, I'd use the sleeping potion on zuma. Same effect and this time it would be on scum for sure.

[storyteller0910]

Absolutely. Recruitment toNight (and a pretty good chance of success). Of course, if the multi-protection hasn't been used up, there's some chance of a block there, too.

If I was hockey, I'd use the sleeping potion on zuma. Same effect and this time it would be on scum for sure.

Don't think the sleeping potion will stop a recruitment if used on zuma, though. It would have to be used on the Prophet, and there's no way the Cult burns the prophet on a scheme like this one.

[DiggitCamara]

Don't think the sleeping potion will stop a recruitment if used on zuma, though. It would have to be used on the Prophet, and there's no way the Cult burns the prophet on a scheme like this one.
That's a gap in the rules, isn't it? A nightKill could definitely be prevented if blocked by the Alchemist.

The recruitment? Not so sure. BlasterMaster might want to clarify that.

Of course, it will cause a storm of comments over in the actual game-thread...

[Blaster Master]

That's a gap in the rules, isn't it? A nightKill could definitely be prevented if blocked by the Alchemist.

The recruitment? Not so sure. BlasterMaster might want to clarify that.

Of course, it will cause a storm of comments over in the actual game-thread...

Oh, believe me, I have a response ready and waiting to be typed and posted, but I decided part of the fun of the game is letting the players interpret the rules and ask for clarifications. I think zuma's ploy in M4 was one of the most brilliant moves I've seen a player make, and it almost worked, but if Mal had just stepped in and said "BTW, if there'd been an attack on Steele, you'd see marks obvious to everyone" or something like that, it would pretty much ruin that aspect. I think I stepped in a couple times when I shouldn't have in the first Day or two with rule clarifications.

[DiggitCamara]

Oh, believe me, I have a response ready and waiting to be typed and posted, but I decided part of the fun of the game is letting the players interpret the rules and ask for clarifications. I think zuma's ploy in M4 was one of the most brilliant moves I've seen a player make, and it almost worked, but if Mal had just stepped in and said "BTW, if there'd been an attack on Steele, you'd see marks obvious to everyone" or something like that, it would pretty much ruin that aspect. I think I stepped in a couple times when I shouldn't have in the first Day or two with rule clarifications.
True dat.

Especially the part where Mal would have ruined the "fun" outburst of Idle during that game. Man oh man, did he explode there...

[Blaster Master]

True dat.

Especially the part where Mal would have ruined the "fun" outburst of Idle during that game. Man oh man, did he explode there...

Yes, yes, that alone made the price of admission worth it. :p

[storyteller0910]

I think if someone went in there and said, "by the way, if you block the Prophet, it blocks recruitment," Queuing's head would flat out explode.

[DiggitCamara]

I think if someone went in there and said, "by the way, if you block the Prophet, it blocks recruitment," Queuing's head would flat out explode.
By the way, what is it with the flaring tempers? I mean... I said it in M4 and I'm saying it here: it's a game! If you can't take it when someone disagrees with you, stay OUT of this game. People will accuse you of anything and everything. The accusation will NOT reflect on your personal values. It should simply be about your current persona.

YMMV

[storyteller0910]

By the way, what is it with the flaring tempers? I mean... I said it in M4 and I'm saying it here: it's a game! If you can't take it when someone disagrees with you, stay OUT of this game. People will accuse you of anything and everything. The accusation will NOT reflect on your personal values. It should simply be about your current persona.

YMMV

Well, I think it only really gets bad when X is lying, and Y knows X is lying but can't prove it, and X knows that Y knows that X is lying - so everything that X says feels like a taunt. It's so hard to deal with someone who's flat out lying to your face, and doing it brazenly, and being incapable of making the truth come out. It's pretty elemental, and very hard to keep cool in a situation like that.

[storyteller0910]

What the hell is Idle doing now?

[Fretful Porpentine]

Damn, this just gets more and more entertaining. I'm kind of glad I'm not in the game any more, though.

[Kat]

Wow. Almost everyone in the game thread is having a stroke. I hope they calm down, or Mafia might get kicked off the board. :(

[Blaster Master]

What the hell is Idle doing now?

I'm not quite sure... but if it's the obvious, then he'll be sorely disappointed; if it's the unobvious, then he's brilliant... hmm...

[Captain Klutz]

Idle Thought's claim to be the Avatar is a little... unexpected.

As far as I can see, there are only 2 ways he could know this:
1. They recruited the Apprentice
2. They are down to just the Prophet and the Avatar

Number 2 looks extremely unlikely (although it would explain the town's difficulty in finding scum). And if Idle is scum then MHAye is being truthful and the Apprentice has not been recruited, so this rules out number 1.

Perhaps Idle Thoughts is trying to get MHaye and CatInaSuit to unvote so that the Cult can do a last minute pile on to a townie, then recruit tonight and win the game. Actually, the way things have gone today, it may be better if the game does end toNight.

Here's hoping that the Mafia games will be allowed to continue...

[Captain Klutz]

Another thought:

It could be that the Apprentice has been recruited, in which case MHaye will do a last minute unvote, leaving pure town as one of the Avatar's victims.

Still, an Apprentice recruitment is unlikely, so I think Idle Thoughts is simply trying to scare off some of the voters to give the Cult the chance to do a last minute pile on. Which is pretty damn clever.

[Captain Klutz]

And the Day appears to have ended while I was pondering the above points.

This is going to be an interesting Dusk - don't keep us waiting too long, Blaster Master.

Which reminds me: Blaster Master, at the end of the game the Night discussion boards will be opened up - instead of this, why not post the info to the game thread, one post per Night? It would be a fair bit of work for you to reformat/re-edit, but it would then be far easier for everyone else to read it.

[HazelNutCoffee]

And the Day appears to have ended while I was pondering the above points.

This is going to be an interesting Dusk - don't keep us waiting too long, Blaster Master.

Which reminds me: Blaster Master, at the end of the game the Night discussion boards will be opened up - instead of this, why not post the info to the game thread, one post per Night? It would be a fair bit of work for you to reformat/re-edit, but it would then be far easier for everyone else to read it.
I'd rather just read the discussion boards - it's more fun that way. Besides, that'd be a lot of work for Blaster Master, and he's had enough to do just running the game.

I'm glad I'm not still in the game. It's amazing how emotional people get while playing, although having played myself I can kinda see how it happens.

[Blaster Master]

And the Day appears to have ended while I was pondering the above points.

This is going to be an interesting Dusk - don't keep us waiting too long, Blaster Master.

Which reminds me: Blaster Master, at the end of the game the Night discussion boards will be opened up - instead of this, why not post the info to the game thread, one post per Night? It would be a fair bit of work for you to reformat/re-edit, but it would then be far easier for everyone else to read it.

You know, I wouldn't mind doing that... except, more than one of the cultists have around 300 posts at this point.

...I also have all of the Night Action PMs posted on there (don't worry, it's accessible only to me, and even then only with a password), so that's another 100 or so posts. On the plus side, I think the scum board is well organized, with each Day and Night having a seperate thread (even though Days only get to have generally chatter, no strategizing), so I think it will be easier to read there anyway...

[Zeriel]

Could you clarify for those of us watching along at home--was that a modkill or was that Idle was the Avatar or both?

[Idle Thoughts]

It was a modkill. I wasn't the Avatar. I didn't think I would be. :p

[Idle Thoughts]

Man alive...I'm actually glad that's over, it was draining having to act that defensive.

Man, Cult really kinda screwed up in this one. Just for the record (and you'll all see this when the scum boards are open) I was hugely against claiming as Monk. I can't say anymore here though because it goes into a lot of more specific information, although there is a TON of stuff to say about it and what happened.

If anyone wants a PM with what the plans were and what my thoughts were, just tell me. Also, if you want to know any other questions, as long as it's okay with Blaster, just PM me with them and I'll answer them. If not, well, then you'll just have to wait to the end of the game.

[Blaster Master]

Could you clarify for those of us watching along at home--was that a modkill or was that Idle was the Avatar or both?

Yes, it was a mod-kill, not the Avatar... I just did it that way to try to have some fun with it and at least try to have some semblence of a story.

[Blaster Master]

Man alive...I'm actually glad that's over, it was draining having to act that defensive.

Man, Cult really kinda screwed up in this one. Just for the record (and you'll all see this when the scum boards are open) I was hugely against claiming as Monk. I can't say anymore here though because it goes into a lot of more specific information, although there is a TON of stuff to say about it and what happened.

If anyone wants a PM with what the plans were and what my thoughts were, just tell me. Also, if you want to know any other questions, as long as it's okay with Blaster, just PM me with them and I'll answer them. If not, well, then you'll just have to wait to the end of the game.

Almost a very impressive coup, I think you screwed up in a couple of minor areas that might have helped your claim. I think there was a bit of poor timing as well, but FWIW, I think you did pretty darn well with the situation you got stuck in.

[storyteller0910]

So, I think the modkill was a pretty smart decision, given the direction the game seemed to be going, but it also seems to me like it pretty much puts the final nail in the town coffin - basically the advantage to the sucessful lynch is mitigated, with the problem of the actual Avatar still unsolved and recruitment toNight quite likely.

[Stanislaus]

Yeah, it's a shame, because they did well to make the right decision about the fake monks. As far as I can see, the best they can hope for is to get Hockey to block zuma, hope MHaye finds the Avatar and have CatinaSuit protect someone in the recruitable pool, hoping it's the same person the Cult pick.

Kind of a long shot, really.

[Zeriel]

The only depressing thing about the game now is how badly some people's tempers seem to have flared up...NAF and sachertorte in particular.

[Scuba_Ben]

Man alive...I'm actually glad that's over, it was draining having to act that defensive.I can somewhat sympathize, Idle Thoughts - how do you think I felt back on Day 3, when I wasn't acting about freaking out?

I had actually had a Very Bad Thought this morning, expanding on what Blaster Master said yesterday: If you Cult had recruited the Apprentice, that would provide perfect cover for the Prophet to roleclaim as the Apprentice. On top of the conflicting Monk claims, nobody would've been the wiser!

[dotchan]

Man alive...I'm actually glad that's over, it was draining having to act that defensive.

And you've totally burned your townie cred with this gambit. You'll have to find a different schtick next time. :D

Man, Cult really kinda screwed up in this one. Just for the record (and you'll all see this when the scum boards are open) I was hugely against claiming as Monk. I can't say anymore here though because it goes into a lot of more specific information, although there is a TON of stuff to say about it and what happened.

Well, it was definitely an interesting gambit. You got me guessing, at least. (But I'm not in this game, so that didn't help you. :P)

[Zeriel]

I still think it's pretty close, especially since losing sach balances out the fact the townies know who zuma is now.

I don't think anyone's probably got any illusions left about NAF anymore either.

What I want to know is this: what the heck was up with Queuing?

[storyteller0910]

I still think it's pretty close, especially since losing sach balances out the fact the townies know who zuma is now.

I don't think anyone's probably got any illusions left about NAF anymore either.

What I want to know is this: what the heck was up with Queuing?

But losing sachertorte is a blow of two different kinds - it's a loss of a townie, fine, but it's also a loss of a player who could not be recruited, and thus would have been a safe haven for the rest of the game. Knowing zuma's alignment isn't going to be the problem - they'll kill him next, and then NAF, most likely, if they haven't wised to the Prophet yet. But one among the Pleonast / MHaye / Hockey Monkey troika is likely to be scum tomorrow morning, and it's going to be very, very hard to recover from that.

I also don't know why Pleonast won't share at least one aspect of his powers. It would save the town an enormous amount of needless wrangling.

[DiggitCamara]

Almost a very impressive coup, I think you screwed up in a couple of minor areas that might have helped your claim. I think there was a bit of poor timing as well, but FWIW, I think you did pretty darn well with the situation you got stuck in.
After zuma's "claim" I would definitely have changed the co-host to the "monk charade" and loudly denounced zuma as a cultist.

[sachertorte]

Funny stories please.

Throughout the game I had been giving quite a bit of thought to the recruitment option. In M3 it was very overpowered (in my opinion), but Blaster Master tempered that with tying it to the Prophet. I kind of looked at that with a critical eye too though since my perception is that the Prophet (investigates as believer) is sort of an endgame role anyway. So that got me thinking, would it make sense to have a diminishing probability of successful recruitment as the game continues. For example, 100% on Night 1, 90% on Night 2, etc. I think this type of set up balances the greater benefits of late recruitment with risk.
Although I think I'd just prefer no recruitment at all.

It's functionally equivalent, but provides a huge amount of flexibility for role-claiming. I'm just really surprised that hasn't come to people like Queuing or Idle or FCoD or Zuma.
Oh that (non-MHaye Apprentice recruitment) occurred to me, lots of things occurred to me, but I wasn't about to bring up information that would hurt my case just yet.

[Idle Thoughts]

Almost a very impressive coup, I think you screwed up in a couple of minor areas that might have helped your claim. I think there was a bit of poor timing as well, but FWIW, I think you did pretty darn well with the situation you got stuck in.

Hahaha, thank you. Stuck in is right. As you know and read , I didn't even want to do that. :p It made zero sense and was so unlike my persona in the game. But in the end, I guess I just gave in.

Again, story for anyone who wants it in PM.

[Idle Thoughts]

Hahaha, I've also learned stuff, just last Night, that is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting.....Stuff not even I knew. This game is going to be wicked.

Oh, and I could tell anyone who wants to know about any possible recruitment in PM if you like.

[Kat]

I think you shouldn't'a given in, Idle.

[Idle Thoughts]

What do you mean? I was all of dead. :p Haha.

[Doctor Who]

Again, story for anyone who wants it in PM.I'll take you up on that, my good man.

[Zeriel]

Oh, I certainly hope Hockey Monkey gets shot down--they need to keep Zuma alive to maximize Hockey's blocking...unless Hockey got the big convert.

[Kat]

I meant you shouldn't'a given in on the roleclaiming idea.

[sachertorte]

Oh, I certainly hope Hockey Monkey gets shot down--they need to keep Zuma alive to maximize Hockey's blocking...unless Hockey got the big convert.
Arrrgh. I really hope someone reads my posts from Yesterday. I pretty much was begging the town to keep the confirmed scum alive for the Alchemist while turning attention to the unknown five. That is the best course of action for the town! I even voted NAF to impress the point.
Hopefully Hockey Monkey will think about who she will target at night and start advocating a non-zuma dunk.

[storyteller0910]

I think this is going to be a boring Day. They seem inclined to kill zuma because it's a safe move, and I think they'll throw a lot of chatter around without it really going anywhere but toward a zuma. The actual endgame starts immediately thereafter.

[Scuba_Ben]

I think Pleonast's list in #3613 is very interesting:
NAF1138: anything possible
USCDiver: anything possible
Pygmy Rugger: anything possibleBy process of elimination from the rest of the list, one of these people is the Avatar, assuming the town can fully trust MHaye. Place yer bets here!

[sachertorte]

zuma could be the avatar too.

[Scuba_Ben]

You're quite right. MHaye didn't investigae zuma, did he?

Bad-guy counts: 2 eliminated, 1 99.999999% confirmed. The Prophet is somewhere, and 1 to 3 others (although 3 is unlikely). There are 3 fully unknowns and 2 non-Avatars; at least 1 of them is scum, possibly 2. Who do you think it is?

[DiggitCamara]

I think this is going to be a boring Day. They seem inclined to kill zuma because it's a safe move, and I think they'll throw a lot of chatter around without it really going anywhere but toward a zuma. The actual endgame starts immediately thereafter.
Yeah, that outcome seems likely. But I think sachertorte is on the right track: the known Cultist should be kept alive, if only to give HockeyMonkey a chance to block.

Although there is a big chance she or MHaye have been recruited.

[sachertorte]

I so want the town to dunk NAF. I posted so yesterday. I also want the town to be critical of Queuing. Look at the point I made that lead to Queuing's outburst and my quitting. Queuing said he wanted MHaye, me, and Cookies to vote for Idle, so that there would be a better chance of getting at least one scum. It totally doesn't make sense.
Although, it makes so little sense I can't see scum saying that either. Either way, I wouldn't mind seeing Queuing go down.
As for Kyrie. I was very wary of a Kyrie dunk because Queuing was pushing really hard for it and pushing hard for definitive actions based on Kyrie's alignment. Town can't know Kyrie's alignment, but scum can. If Kyrie gets dunked and turns up believer, then I'd be even more critical of Queuing. Although, Queuing's willingness to continue with a Kyrie dunk today, knowing that Cookies and I are Monks makes it look less bad for Q.

NAF? scum
Queuing? possibly scum
Kyrie? maybe scum
USCDiver? probably not scum, and I'd be pissed if he is.
PygmyRugger? game broken if original scum

I think all the discussion about recruitment and Prophet are distracting. Get the original scum first. If you happen upon a recruit, great! If you happen upon the Prophet, great! But to focus on them is not all that helpful.

I think a recruitment of Hockey Monkey at this point makes sense. It removes a significant night blocker (about 20% chance of blocking night kills when targeting zuma, only to go up as more scum are found), and the town will avoid losing Hockey Monkey for the same reason. They can't recruit the Disciple, so that leaves Hockey Monkey. MHaye makes a good choice too, but he has to die in this game.

I'm a bit worried about MHaye. The two no reads look awfully suspicious. He hasn't said anything contradictory yet, but I question his choices in investigation - specifically Pleonast. It's helping the town, sort of, but I don't know why he 'wasted' a read on someone who roleclaimed. His read on me isn't as bad as I hadn't roleclaimed at the time, but I was hoping Hal's breadcrumb would have dissuaded MHaye from investigating me. When MHaye dies, and he has to one way or another, that will indicate a bit more about FCOD.

[Blaster Master]

I just have to say, even though MHaye says he didn't get a result, and there was no kill... last Night was possibly one of the best to watch, simply because every role had a very real chance of affecting the outcome of the game. :D

[sachertorte]

Also, I think the Disciple should consider protecting herself or Cookies. Abandoning MHaye, may not be as terrible as one might think. Keeping the confirmed town alive, especially unrecruitable town, seems more important to me.

[Scuba_Ben]

CatinaSuit could have protected herself, Hockey Monkey, or MHaye. If I were scum, I'd strongly consider recruiting someone else.

There's what, 12 people left? 5 pro-town roleclaims, likely 2 or 3 original scum. That leaves 4 +/- 1 people as good recruit targets.

Someone said in-game that they had no read on USCDiver this late in the game. Either the poster is scum, or USCDiver is under the radar and so a good option for recruiting.

[DiggitCamara]

CatinaSuit could have protected herself, Hockey Monkey, or MHaye. If I were scum, I'd strongly consider recruiting someone else.

There's what, 12 people left? 5 pro-town roleclaims, likely 2 or 3 original scum. That leaves 4 +/- 1 people as good recruit targets.

Someone said in-game that they had no read on USCDiver this late in the game. Either the poster is scum, or USCDiver is under the radar and so a good option for recruiting.
Additionally, I doubt Pleonast is a good candidate for recruitment, since no one but him and Blaster Master actually knows what his role does. The cultist would probably avoid him on the off-chance that he is unrecruitable as well.

[Blaster Master]

Also, I think the Disciple should consider protecting herself or Cookies. Abandoning MHaye, may not be as terrible as one might think. Keeping the confirmed town alive, especially unrecruitable town, seems more important to me.

Strange as it sounds, but I agree with this. I can't see the cult targetting MHaye anytime soon, because it leaves uncertainty about if he's the Apprentice and if the Apprentice was recruited. Also, it allows him the opportunity to expand the "confirmed" pool which could very well include, or eventually include, the prophet and a potential convert (possibly even including MHaye himself).

That is, sure he'll give a confirmed Avatar IF he finds him, but he'll only find Non-Believers (which may include pro-town players) and there's a possibility for two Believers to be found by him. Combine that with a 30% failure rate, and his information isn't very useful, and potentially detrimental to the town (if too much faith is placed in his results).

[Fretful Porpentine]

Someone said in-game that they had no read on USCDiver this late in the game. Either the poster is scum, or USCDiver is under the radar and so a good option for recruiting.
I guess it will give nothing away if I say that I was about 60% sure that USCDiver was the Apprentice until SCL got offed, and absolutely, 100% positive that he was for two Days after that. Consequently, I protected him on Nights 4 through 6. If he's scum, I'm going to feel even stupider than I already do (and since SCL would have been my second choice to protect on Night 4, I feel pretty darned stupid).

[Mtgman]

So Sachertorte, how did you like the funny story? I figure you'd enjoy it almost as much as I did.

Enjoy,
Steven

[sachertorte]

I never got the funny story :(

[Hal Briston]

PygmyRugger? game broken if original scumDid I miss something? Why would that be?

[Hal Briston]

I never got the funny story :(PM on its way...

[storyteller0910]

I never got the funny story :(

Yeah, dude, you were one of the key players.

Actually, Hal, if you still have it handy - I think that story can probably be posted in here now, can't it? The only key players were me, Sach, and Mtgman, and we're all dead and our alignments freely known.

[Blaster Master]

Yeah, dude, you were one of the key players.

Actually, Hal, if you still have it handy - I think that story can probably be posted in here now, can't it? The only key players were me, Sach, and Mtgman, and we're all dead and our alignments freely known.

Yeah, I don't see any problem with posting it at this point.

[Hal Briston]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
storyteller's Funny Story:

by storyteller0910 (Note: The "you" in this tale is Mtgman)

So, early Day 1, I'm guessing you were probably wondering, "why the hell is this guy riding me about nothing?"

Sachertorte is one of the other monks. When I first received the PM listing the monks, I resolved that early in the game, I would do everything I could to distance myself from the others - even to the point of cultivating a feud with one of them, so that if one of us was lynched or night-killed, the others could remain under the radar.

Early on, sachertorte started posting theoretical analysis, and since I feel (though not nearly as strongly as I may seem) that this is a counterproductive line of discussion, I figured I'd go after him. Shortly thereafter, you joined in with your own meta-game discussion, and I engaged you, as well (thinking it would be awfully inconsistent to attack sachertorte and not you).

Well, somehow, in the space of a few posts, I got things totally turned around and started thinking you were the other Monk. As our exchange was getting more and more heated, I was thrilled - "wow," I thought to myself, "he's really understanding what I'm trying to do. He's really doing a good job of pretending to be annoyed with me. No Cultist in the world is going to think we're linked."

This went on for most of our exchange. Then I... um... realized you weren't a Monk. But I had noticed what I thought were inconsistencies in your posts, and things proceeded as they did.

So that's my story. For most of our in-game fight, I firmly believed that we were both playacting, to hide our association as Monks.

I am an idiot.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sachertorte]

That is a funny story.

If it helps any, my name is Stephen too.

[Idle Thoughts]

I'll get that PM on it's way, Doctor Who.

Also...I've learned something about someone still in game that's verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy interesting. (In regards to role and team and how they're playing and all that. I won't say anymore in here but I may in PM if anyone would like to know. BM this is the same thing I PMed you about on the scum boards....if it's all right to say for anyone who wishes to know?)

[Drain Bead]

I'd like to see it.

[Scuba_Ben]

zuma (v2)'s latest series of posts made me laugh very very hard! I think he's gone into smokescreen mode.

[sachertorte]

I'm severely irritated that no one is looking at NAF. I voted NAF yesterday in a post specifically telling them to dunk NAF after I was gone. Are they really going to let NAF's F-bomb let him off the hook?
Why do they trust NAF? Zeriel was at his throat. I was begging them to dunk him.
Grrr.

[Kat]

zuma is my new hero. :D

[dotchan]

Ahaha. Zuma refuses to be ignored.

It is amusing to watch, but I'm sure it's horribly irritating in-game.

vote zuma :D

[Hal Briston]

Ahaha. Zuma refuses to be ignored.

It is amusing to watch, but I'm sure it's horribly irritating in-game.

vote zuma :DIt's even more irritating when you're trying to create a voting spreadsheet. I was willing to keep up until he started with the "Top Dog" bit, or whatever it was. Then I just said "screw him" and went the path that I did (http://www.sirblah.com/misc/Sekham.htm). Hope he complains about it. :p

[Kat]

Well, you put a good effort in. I was expecting to go look at the spreadsheet and just see "a bunch of people" under zuma's column. ;)

[Mtgman]

I'm severely irritated that no one is looking at NAF. I voted NAF yesterday in a post specifically telling them to dunk NAF after I was gone. Are they really going to let NAF's F-bomb let him off the hook?
Why do they trust NAF? Zeriel was at his throat. I was begging them to dunk him.
Grrr. NAF's been on my scum-dar for a while now. He didn't trigger it when I was still in the game, but later developments have changed my view. I see how unhelpful he's been to the town(an experienced player being unhelpful is a scum tell for me). He was too quiet until about day 5 and since that time he's mainly engaged in emotional arguements, not logical ones. Emotional arguements are a scum tell for me too because they cloud the issue by bringing feelings into the evaluation. Cold and methodical is the best approach(IMHO) for the town. Witch hunts happen when investigations are mixed with emotions, and encouraging that is just a huge scum tell to me.

Enjoy,
Steven

[DiggitCamara]

NAF's been on my scum-dar for a while now. He didn't trigger it when I was still in the game, but later developments have changed my view. I see how unhelpful he's been to the town(an experienced player being unhelpful is a scum tell for me). He was too quiet until about day 5 and since that time he's mainly engaged in emotional arguements, not logical ones. Emotional arguements are a scum tell for me too because they cloud the issue by bringing feelings into the evaluation. Cold and methodical is the best approach(IMHO) for the town. Witch hunts happen when investigations are mixed with emotions, and encouraging that is just a huge scum tell to me.

Enjoy,
Steven
Ever seen Mad the Swine play?

[Captain Klutz]

Game post #3862
So, why do you refer to the Believers as "Citizens"? Just curious.

--FCODThis is interesting. I wondered the same thing when the first citizen was killed, because I thought the vanilla citizens were just "Believers" (my role was a non-believer). If citizens were given the role of "Citizen" then FCOD has just outed himself as the Prophet.

[Blaster Master]

Game post #3862
This is interesting. I wondered the same thing when the first citizen was killed, because I thought the vanilla citizens were just "Believers" (my role was a non-believer). If citizens were given the role of "Citizen" then FCOD has just outed himself as the Prophet.

Interesting. Now, obviously, I won't openly confirm if he is or is not the prophet, but I'm curious to see if anyone else will pick up on that.

[Scuba_Ben]

Game post #3862
This is interesting. I wondered the same thing when the first citizen was killed, because I thought the vanilla citizens were just "Believers" (my role was a non-believer). If citizens were given the role of "Citizen" then FCOD has just outed himself as the Prophet.After BM's no-comment, I went back and checked my role info. My role was clearly "Citizen," not "Believer."

So if anybody spots that in the game thread, the fur will really start flying.

[sachertorte]

When the first citizen died I wondered why they were being labeled citizen very briefly. I concluded that Blaster Master was using the term since many roles are believers but not all believers are vanilla players. In other words the Disciple is a believer and the Disciple.

I would not have caught FCOD on this because my role was Monk, not Citizen. Presumably, the real citizens in the game (maybe one or two left?) are the only ones with the information to confront FCOD on this. The question is whether they will pay attention to night chatter or not.

[DiggitCamara]

Might it not be on purpose? (FCoD's comment)

That way, he'd generate a load of comments, worst case scenario he gets lynched and the town is convinced they have managed to avoid recruitment.

Cultists win...

[sachertorte]

I don't follow your logic. How does the town dunking the Prophet lead to a scum win?

[DiggitCamara]

I don't follow your logic. How does the town dunking the Prophet lead to a scum win?
It would create false confidence, because without the Prophet no one can get recruited.

The town might erroneously think no one had already been recruited and afterwards it would be easy cruisin' for the new Cultist (who, by the way, could not be detected).

[sachertorte]

I don't think the town would assume no recruit had occurred. They would consider the possibility, but they would not outright assume no recruit had occurred.

Looks like Hockey Monkey may have picked up on the FCOD faux pas; which probably invalidates my theory that Citizens would be the ones to figure it out. Dead Monkey tomorrow?

[sachertorte]

And now it looks like NAF has picked up that Hockey Monkey has picked up on the situation.

[Blaster Master]

Interesting Night, I think the cultists made the best move. This is gonna come down to the wite, me-thinks.

[Scuba_Ben]

Pull up a chair, CatinaSuit, and watch what's likely to be the end game play.

I hope the discussions get very interesting over the next day or so.

[dotchan]

Incidentally, BLaM has gotten lynched in the other game, that lying scumbag Psycho, so he can no longer use that as his excuse. :D

*throws confetti for Asylum Lane*

[Idle Thoughts]

Heh, hooo boy is this game getting interesting.

Both BM's and mine, actually, seem to have potential to go down to the very end.

[sachertorte]

What is this bizarre, almost religious, aversion to "meta-gaming"?
To me, meta-gaming is stuff like I'll vote for the third person to post or things like that. I tried to start a discussion about ArizonaTeach and why he left, and was shot down because it was 'meta-gaming' (which I still think it wasn't).
I don't think what USCDiver describes is meta-gaming at all. FCOD made a statement inconsistent with someone assigned the role of Citizen. Nothing meta- about it.

dunk FCOD!
dunk NAF!

[sachertorte]

Do you think MHaye and the town will piece together that non-avatar readings on Queuing and Kyrie are tantamount to "believer" readings at this time?

My thinking is there is only the Prophet, Avatar and recruit left (Initial conditions of 5 scum to 25 town). I don't think there is a regular cultist left. I'm so hoping MHaye investigated NAF last night. If he investigated Queuing or Kyrie I'll scream.

[Mtgman]

FCoD could be a non-believer.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Blaster Master]

FCoD could be a non-believer.

Enjoy,
Steven

He couldn't be, because he was investigated as a Believer.

...unless MHaye was lying. :D

[Idle Thoughts]

Hell, FCOD could be anything. I still don't think MHaye is the Apprentice. :p

But IF he really is then I don't see how FCOD could be a vanilla non-believer. After the Oracle dies, the Apprentice doesn't have any chance of being wrong anymore, just at getting no read (or getting blocked, heh heh).

IF MHaye IS the Apprentice (and I don't think he is for reasons I'll not divulge right now), he's already said FCoD reads "Believer" (this being an investigation he made AFTER Hal died).

[Idle Thoughts]

Yeah, I guess it could be that too (that BM just said). I guess MHaye COULD be the Apprentice but just be lying. No idea why he would be, though.

I dunno, I just have a hard time believing he's it at all.

[Idle Thoughts]

*whistles innocently*

[DiggitCamara]

I don't think the town would assume no recruit had occurred. They would consider the possibility, but they would not outright assume no recruit had occurred.

(snip)


We'll see, won't we? Honestly? I believe it already has happened. And I doubt it will easy to find out who's been recruited.

My guess would be the recruit is someone without a power role (and, if possible, who already had been investigated).

And MHaye's dying toNight.

[sachertorte]

Are you kidding? If FCOD is anything, but a Citizen (unlikely) or the Prophet, then the town will have found out the recruit, MHaye.

Holy crap! There are 4 scum left?
MHaye is reporting that NAF is a non-believer... In other words NOT the Avatar.

FCOD - Prophet
NAF - Cultist
?? - Avatar
?? - Recruit

The town is in lynch or lose, which explains Idle Thought's Monk gambit (well, a little bit).

[Idle Thoughts]

Hahahahehehe

*whistles more* Oh, you'll all find out.

Trust me..it's GOOD. :)

[CatInASuit]

I'm Back.....

Did you miss me? :D

[CatInASuit]

Right, I am also open to any interesting PMs and other bits of information.

If anyone has any juicy gossip, let us know.

[CatInASuit]

Well, I will admit that if I was still alive I would probably be voting for FCoD as well.

And I see that Pleonast has decide to play the odds again on NAF1138 being a Cultist.

IIRC, last time we tried that we got Diggit v2 dunked.

Oh well.

[Captain Klutz]

And MHaye's dying toNight.
Well, Pleonast may protect MHaye, presumably by dying in his place (that's a Martyr's normal role, although we have no idea what Pleonast's abilities actually are).

If MHaye is actually Cult then perhaps they may simulate the appearance of a Martyr block by targeting Pleonast directly: the death could then possibly be interpreted as a Martyr block, depending on how the death scene is written.

[Captain Klutz]

Welcome back, CatinaSuit.

I was intrigued that you did not reveal who you had protected on the no kill Night. This seemed odd, as it would have been useful to the town to know who had definitely not been recruited that Night. Even if you had used the 'protect 2' ability and didn't want to reveal that, you still could have named 1 player. I decided that you in fact protected nobody, having used the 'protect 2' on the previous Night, and didn't want the Cult to know.

[CatInASuit]

Welcome back, CatinaSuit.

I was intrigued that you did not reveal who you had protected on the no kill Night. This seemed odd, as it would have been useful to the town to know who had definitely not been recruited that Night. Even if you had used the 'protect 2' ability and didn't want to reveal that, you still could have named 1 player. I decided that you in fact protected nobody, having used the 'protect 2' on the previous Night, and didn't want the Cult to know.

I won't spoiler who I protected, but needless to say I got it right. (Thanks for the PM Blaster Master)

Also no-one actually asked me who I protected, although the fact that nobody mentioned the possibility that I might have succeeded, was a bit of a giveaway.

I will be honest, and say I was trying to be upbeat for the town and get them thinking again. I also wanted to be as big a nuisance to the Cult as possible. I certainly hope that they felt nervous over my plans for zuma v2. That would have been highly amusing had it worked and taken out a Cultist.

Personally, I still don't think the cult has recruited yet, given the situation and I hope that they come to regret it. Knowing my skills at reading this game, it was done some time ago.

[sachertorte]

Well, I will admit that if I was still alive I would probably be voting for FCoD as well.

And I see that Pleonast has decide to play the odds again on NAF1138 being a Cultist.

IIRC, last time we tried that we got Diggit v2 dunked.

Oh well.
Diggit was victim to a false reading. Assuming MHaye isn't lying, his read of non-believer on NAF is fact. They can't not lynch NAF, it is just a matter of when. I don't think there are additional non-believers in the game because, there were already 4 (I think), more would have been unbalancing; and I think NAF is scum anyway. Also, if NAF really was a non-believer, he should have role claimed to eliminate unknowns for the Apprentice. Essentially, not roleclaiming wastes an apprentice read. NAF is scum, I detailed my reasons on my last Day in the game.

I think they should go after FCOD. The evidence points to NAF being vanilla scum and FCOD being the prophet. I hope Hockey Monkey blocks NAF tonight (although, by my math, town needs two blocks to gain an additional day).

[Scuba_Ben]

I think they should go after FCOD. The evidence points to NAF being vanilla scum and FCOD being the prophet. I hope Hockey Monkey blocks NAF tonight (although, by my math, town needs two blocks to gain an additional day).My $.05 is that they should go after the Prophet now, and FCoD is the best candidate for that. They then need to hunt down the Avatar, the candidates being everybody that has neither claimed a role nor MHaye has investigated.

... assumming MHaye has been honest.

Anyway, my sense is that there are 2 to 4 scum left: The Prophet and Avatar, potentially one plain Cultist, and potentially one recruit. I'm inclined to 2 original scum and 1 recruit.

[sachertorte]

... assumming MHaye has been honest.

That's another reason to go after FCOD.
If MHaye isn't recruited, then tonight scum have to kill him, leaving him alive lets him get another investigation.
If MHaye was recruited, then tomorrow town will be wondering why he is still alive.

Scum could play risky and leave an unrecruited MHaye alive, but that's potentially game losing if MHaye investigates and finds the Avatar.

[CatInASuit]

Oh grief, now there is a turn up for the books.

zuma v2 was the Avatar.

At least it was caught now before it had a chance to affect too much and as I didn't vote for him, my death is not possible from the Avatar effect.

I would also apply it now as well, because not too much time has passed in this day and it will give everyone, Town and Cult, time to adjust to the outcome.

On the other hand.

<Idle T>
Oh Yes, I was So Right!
Come on you Avatar!
Take out a Cultist!
</Idle T>

Ahem.

Normal service will now be resumed....

[storyteller0910]

Crap. It looks like the game just got broken.

[CatInASuit]

Crap. It looks like the game just got broken.

Not necessarily. If both FCoD and Pygmy Rugger are both Cultists, then any game info is still kept in the Cult. Then Pygmy Rugger gets the wrath of Sekham from the Avatar and game balance is kinda restored.

If FCoD is not Cult, then it will depend upon what Pygmy Rugger wrote and then deleted.

Either way, I think Pygmy Rugger is going to be out shortly.

[storyteller0910]

Not necessarily. If both FCoD and Pygmy Rugger are both Cultists, then any game info is still kept in the Cult. Then Pygmy Rugger gets the wrath of Sekham from the Avatar and game balance is kinda restored.

If FCoD is not Cult, then it will depend upon what Pygmy Rugger wrote and then deleted.

Either way, I think Pygmy Rugger is going to be out shortly.

Yeah, I don't know. If Pygmy said what I'm guessing he said, there's going to be a bit of a problem.

[Scuba_Ben]

I *did* see what Pygmy Rugger said and deleted: REDACTED

[CatInASuit]

I *did* see what Pygmy Rugger said and deleted: REDACTED

I take it that it could cause significant grief then :(

[Scuba_Ben]

Catina, I can neither confirm nor deny anything about what was redacted.

[Blaster Master]

Okay... FCoD made a suggestion, of which I was thinking, which was simply have the Avatar kill him; however, for those that have a more complete picture (like Storyteller) might be aware, I can't really do that either...

Oy, I think the game went from barely staying above broken to completely broken in one fel swoop. I have one idea, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't just make matters worse...

[storyteller0910]

Okay... FCoD made a suggestion, of which I was thinking, which was simply have the Avatar kill him; however, for those that have a more complete picture (like Storyteller) might be aware, I can't really do that either...

Oy, I think the game went from barely staying above broken to completely broken in one fel swoop. I have one idea, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't just make matters worse...

What's your idea?

<half audible whisper>

You big scummy scum scum psychopath

[CatInASuit]

Catina, I can neither confirm nor deny anything about what was redacted.

That's makes sense. Keep it under your hat/diving helmet/scuba gear etc etc.

[sachertorte]

I don't understand. How could Pygmy Rugger post something that would effect the game? I mean, it's not like he posts here in the forbidden thread, and anything else he posts on the SDMB would be totally irrelevant to the game. So why did he edit what he wrote?

Is the general assumption that Pygmy Rugger is scum and was posting to the scum board? Well that doesn't make sense either because it is DAY and scum should not be communicating during the day.

And now the whole Avatar thing. Jeepers, what to make of this. I came to the conclusion that there were 4 scum left based on the observation that NAF is not the avatar, but is scum. So that conclusion is out the window now, but it still leaves unwanted impressions in my mind.
Moving Avatar effect to someone else would have to 'allow for' moving it to NAF (scum scum scum!), otherwise it's not 'random' and the town would be penalized for investigating NAF before the Avatar mistake was caught. I suppose NAF could become the avatar and MHaye given an updated read from last night, but that's getting a bit too orchestrated and I'm worried that there are problems with that that I don't see.

Or you could make Idle Thoughts the Avatar and have me killed by him.

[storyteller0910]

I don't understand. How could Pygmy Rugger post something that would effect the game? I mean, it's not like he posts here in the forbidden thread, and anything else he posts on the SDMB would be totally irrelevant to the game. So why did he edit what he wrote?

Is the general assumption that Pygmy Rugger is scum and was posting to the scum board? Well that doesn't make sense either because it is DAY and scum should not be communicating during the day.


Well, I'm not totally sure how Blaster is handling it in this game, but during M2 the scum were permitted to communicate during the Day - just not on substantive matters. We couldn't talk strategy or coordinate tactics or anything like that, but we did post semi-frequently during the Day and any number of those posts could have been game breaking if done on the wrong board.


Or you could make Idle Thoughts the Avatar and have me killed by him.

That's not a bad idea, since it evens out your death.

[Blaster Master]

Well, I'm not totally sure how Blaster is handling it in this game, but during M2 the scum were permitted to communicate during the Day - just not on substantive matters. We couldn't talk strategy or coordinate tactics or anything like that, but we did post semi-frequently during the Day and any number of those posts could have been game breaking if done on the wrong board.

Yes, they're allowed to chit-chat during the Day and, of course, many of those posts could be game-breaking.

That's not a bad idea, since it evens out your death.

Actually, I had considered the idea of making Idle Thoughts the Avatar at the time, but I specifically chose against it because he wasn't, but had claimed he had knowledge that made him sure he was. Thus, if I'd made him the Avatar, it wouldn't have lended undue credence to that claim.

[Blaster Master]

Okay... if Pygmy hadn't editted, it would be different, but he has to be out for breaking the rules. FCoD now definitively has game-breaking information, so he should be out too. If I mod-kill both of them, it's like a day-night cycle and thus doesn't affect the number of mis-lynches needed for the game to end.

[Blaster Master]

...the sad thing is... if he hadn't editted, it probably would have done less damage.

[sachertorte]

FCoD now definitively has game-breaking information, so he should be out too.
Oh, just tell us what he wrote. I can't comment intelligently on things I know nothing about. We're in here, they are out there.
Because this statement in isolation gives a pretty good indication that FCOD and Pygmy Rugger are of different alignments; specifically FCOD is town and Pygmy is scum.

The bummer is FCOD didn't do anything wrong; so a mod-kill seems egregiously unfair. But if the statement was so innocuous that leaving it up would have been 'less damaging' then how does FCOD's seeing it make FCOD mod-kill fodder? FCOD is getting dunked anyway, so a mod-kill probably isn't too terrible. Weird, but not totally out of nowhere. It's not like you're mod-killing a Monk or anything :D .

[Zeriel]

Yeah, I think at this point you oughta just say what Pygmy accidentally posted out there. If nothing else, PM it around--it's gotta be juicy. =P

I agree with sach (dammit, monk jink!) that FCoD doesn't appear to have done anything wrong.

[Blaster Master]

Yeah, I think at this point you oughta just say what Pygmy accidentally posted out there. If nothing else, PM it around--it's gotta be juicy. =P

I agree with sach (dammit, monk jink!) that FCoD doesn't appear to have done anything wrong.

You're both right, FCoD didn't do anything wrong. However, my concern is based on what happened in M3, where Idle Thoughts accidently got game breaking information and wasn't mod-killed, and it very much affected the outcome of the game.

I think I have a better idea...

[Blaster Master]

Okay, so here's my thoughts... leave both FCoD and Pygmy alive, but reveal what was editted out. Since the town was probably going to kill them (along with NAF) on successive Days, I figure I can just let them work it out.

[CatInASuit]

Blaster Master - what do you intend to do about zuma being the Avatar?

[Blaster Master]

Blaster Master - what do you intend to do about zuma being the Avatar?

If I go ahead with revealing the editted post, I'll process it immediately.

[sachertorte]

You're both right, FCoD didn't do anything wrong. However, my concern is based on what happened in M3, where Idle Thoughts accidently got game breaking information and wasn't mod-killed, and it very much affected the outcome of the game.

I think I have a better idea...
But Idle got game breaking information outside of the game thread. I think this is entirely different.

[CatInASuit]

If I go ahead with revealing the editted post, I'll process it immediately.

That makes sense. The game is about revealing info, so if you process the Avatar as it should have been done and then reveal Pygmy Rugger's post, it is roughly back where it should be.

Albeit, with someone looking really foolish.

[sachertorte]

Did NAF vote for zuma? If so, then an Avatar event killing NAF would have changed who MHaye investigated.

[Blaster Master]

Did NAF vote for zuma? If so, then an Avatar event killing NAF would have changed who MHaye investigated.

I know it looks that way... but it wouldn't. All will be revealed shortly with the mod-kill post. :D

[sachertorte]

I checked. NAF did vote for zuma.
Part of me wants NAF to get Avatar-rrrr-ed because I'm sure he's scum.
Part of me wants NAF to get Avatar-rrrr-ed because I'm a bad person and find the subplot more interesting than the game at this point.

[CatInASuit]

I'm looking forward to the town reaction to all of this.

It will probably immediately lead to the dunking of Pygmy Rugger, but who knows what else might occur.

[sachertorte]

Oh sure. I'm the only one to not get a substitution and I'm the only one to get mod-killed.
Frumpy.


just kidding

[CatInASuit]

Oh sure. I'm the only one to not get a substitution and I'm the only one to get mod-killed.
Frumpy.


just kidding

My apologies for being tardy, next time I will try to get up to speed with a game quicker so you get a sub :p

[sachertorte]

Hmmm. Actually, thinking about it a bit more (before seeing the content of the post deleted) I think its sort of unfair to put the burden on the town to decide what to do about Pygmy Rugger. Basically, they have to dunk him which, if he is scum, doesn't change the game dynamics (other than having outed himself as a scum, which he did). If he is town, then the game is essentially over.

[sachertorte]

ZING!
Okay, that makes more sense. But it still doesn't rectify the issue that if NAF were to die by the avatar, that MHaye would have selected a different target at night.
Unfortunately, this is of course an extension of the zuma-avatar issue.
I hope Gadarene is reading this game. I think he'll feel much better.

[tirial]

Hmmm. Actually, thinking about it a bit more (before seeing the content of the post deleted) I think its sort of unfair to put the burden on the town to decide what to do about Pygmy Rugger.

Having read the contents of Pygmy Rugger's post now BM's added it, all I can say is I suspect you will get your wish for a NAF dunking in the near future.

[sachertorte]

I really do hope that Pygmy Rugger is the recruit. Because if all that "Where's Nava?" sub-of-a-sub stuff turns out to have been scum all along, there might be a small riot.

[DiggitCamara]

Having read the contents of Pygmy Rugger's post now BM's added it, all I can say is I suspect you will get your wish for a NAF dunking in the near future.
Welcome back!

[storyteller0910]

I really do hope that Pygmy Rugger is the recruit. Because if all that "Where's Nava?" sub-of-a-sub stuff turns out to have been scum all along, there might be a small riot.

Heh.

[Blaster Master]

Welcome back!

Seconded. Welcome back tirial. :)

[CatInASuit]

You see Pleonast, this is why you tell people what your role can do. :smack:

Because if you had, there is a very good chance that FCoD would be a small smoking pair of boots instead of you as it is unlikely I would have asked for you to vote against zuma v2.

The whole point was to kill a Cultist instead of a town-aligned power role. :rolleyes:

Hey, it nearly worked.

Maybe next time :D


Anyway, pull up a chair, grab some nachos and enjoy the remainder of the game.

[CatInASuit]

Is Idle Thoughts still playing in this game :rolleyes: :confused:

He is spending more time in the Mafia thread than in the Forbidden thread

[sachertorte]

Wow, it is somewhat questionable that Pleonast didn't reveal at least that part about his role. Although, I can kind of see why. Honestly, how would the town have reacted to his revealing that information. I'm sure someone would have been skeptical and used that information as reason that Pleonast was scum. In other words, how convenient that you don't want to vote for the scum and take the risk like everyone else.

[sachertorte]

Hey, it nearly worked.
Yes. Nearly.
But what's the point of putting in a random kill if you're just going to make it deterministic anyway.

Well, at least Pleonast's martyrdom prevented Cookies from getting killed.
Go Gay Monk Power!

[Mtgman]

Yikes, three own goals in the final seconds. What a spectacular way to change the course of a game. I thought the scum had this one locked up. Their hopes now pretty all reside in the convert(assuming there was one).

Enjoy,
Steven

[sachertorte]

Speed dunk!

[Idle Thoughts]

Yes, they're allowed to chit-chat during the Day and, of course, many of those posts could be game-breaking.



Actually, I had considered the idea of making Idle Thoughts the Avatar at the time, but I specifically chose against it because he wasn't, but had claimed he had knowledge that made him sure he was. Thus, if I'd made him the Avatar, it wouldn't have lended undue credence to that claim.

This was strategy. To give us SOME bit of a chance. I claimed because I was hoping I really was...because on the off chance I turned out to have been right, the rest of the players would have wondered how I KNEW. They would have then narrowed it down to either: A. There was only me and the Prophet left (in which case they'd think zuma was it). B: There was only me, the Prophet, and the recruit left (in which case they'd know zuma was one, and when killing him, think he was the recruit when he came up normal scum). Or C: That we recruited the Apprentice who had, that Night, just found out I was the Avatar and told us it.

Either ways, it would have thrown a kink in all town knew or believed at that point. SCORE for us! Mass confusion is never a bad thing when you're scum.

So yeah, I really had hoped I was the Avatar, so we'd at least have had that chance still. Although it really didn't matter anyway since we were/are so vast in number. :p

[Idle Thoughts]

Having read the contents of Pygmy Rugger's post now BM's added it, all I can say is I suspect you will get your wish for a NAF dunking in the near future.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, tiral! Good to see you back. :D
See? Now doesn't this game make M3 seem pretty dang great?

[sachertorte]

I hope Gadarene is reading this game. I think he'll feel much better.
Oh. And I didn't mean that as a dig at Blaster Master. Just the observation that complex and interesting games like theirs are bound to run into a snag here or there. Probably should be built into our expectations.

[Blaster Master]

Yes. Nearly.
But what's the point of putting in a random kill if you're just going to make it deterministic anyway.

Well, at least Pleonast's martyrdom prevented Cookies from getting killed.
Go Gay Monk Power!

Well, the idea was to get people to think it was random, specifically the cultists, so they would think twice about ganging up on eachother. It did work, because at least once, a cultist unvoted because of that (I know, because I was told :)).

[Idle Thoughts]

Is Idle Thoughts still playing in this game :rolleyes: :confused:

He is spending more time in the Mafia thread than in the Forbidden thread


Eh? I was just posting what I thought pyg had done since I saw what I saw in my game and on my boards. I thought I could probably explain it.

[sachertorte]

Eh? I was just posting what I thought pyg had done since I saw what I saw in my game and on my boards. I thought I could probably explain it.
Hmmm. Skeptical.
I think you're in danger of having the two games collide. That is probably not preferable.

[tirial]

Thanks for the welcome.

See? Now doesn't this game make M3 seem pretty dang great?Not touching that comment (or M3) with a ten foot bargepole.

Personally, Blaster Master I think you did the right thing. The game goes on with no damage to either side that they haven't done to themselves.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

Not touching that comment (or M3) with a ten foot bargepole.

(snip)
Why not? We did win, you know!

Ok, ok, I'll drop M3 too... ;)

[sachertorte]

riot riot riot riot riot riot











riot

[Blaster Master]

riot riot riot riot riot riot











riot

What is this, sachetorte, a Quiet Riot?


God, that was terrible.

[Blaster Master]

Interesting discussion on the cult board... too bad for them they don't know what I know. :D

[Idle Thoughts]

Hmmm. Skeptical.
I think you're in danger of having the two games collide. That is probably not preferable.

Hm? :confused:

[Idle Thoughts]

I know what you mean, BM. Although you probably know even MORE than what I do.

[Blaster Master]

I know what you mean, BM. Although you probably know even MORE than what I do.

I bet you're just ITCHING to say somethin' to them, ain't you?

[Idle Thoughts]

OH Shit! I hadn't even read the scum boards yet. Ah man, how I WISH I was still alive now and still knowing what I know now.

Crap.

[Idle Thoughts]

I bet you're just ITCHING to say somethin' to them, ain't you?


DAMMIT, YES. Even just a "oy vey" comment. Hahah. God it is SO tempting to make some kind of post. :smack: :smack: :smack:

Gah! They know not what they're doing. :smack:


Hahaha, man this is going to be SO SO SO interesting.