Forbidden Thread: Mafia V

[Blaster Master]

Welcome one, welcome all... unless you're still alive in Mafia V, then GO AWAY!

Spectators and the dead, please feel free to comment in this thread. Subs, feel free to participate. To future dead players, especially if you have/had a special role, please do not reveal any special information openly in the thread.

[Millit the Frail]

Yay! I can watch, at least.

I feel pretty positive about those two guys Hal and Diggit, for some reason....they don't strike me as scummy at all! ;)

On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that this Blaster character is up to something....

[CatInASuit]

<pulls up chair>

Well the game is off and running already.

Looks like they are trying to find a better way than random voting to try and find the cultists.
I'm not sure it will work though, unless someone makes a really silly mistake under pressure or they are lucky.

[Blaster Master]

Agh! It's SO hard not to comment in the thread, but I suspect it'll be very interesting to actually get to watch with perfect information. Maybe this way I'll be that much more dangerous in the next one, eh?

Yay! I can watch, at least.

I feel pretty positive about those two guys Hal and Diggit, for some reason....they don't strike me as scummy at all! ;)

On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that this Blaster character is up to something....

Just a gut instinct, or anything in particular?

[capybara]

Step one: Lynch Autolycus. Whatever he does, just take him out, for safety's sake.

[Heller Highwater]

Step one: Lynch Autolycus. Whatever he does, just take him out, for safety's sake.
Y'know, if someone running the game wanted to be really evil, they'd intentionally put him in one of the power town roles. ;) (Yes, I saw the mafia 2...uh...incident.)

[DaphneBlack]

These things are sooo addictive.

And, once again, storyteller is just being so reasonable. What's he up to *this* time?

[capybara]

Y'know, if someone running the game wanted to be really evil, they'd intentionally put him in one of the power town roles. ;) (Yes, I saw the mafia 2...uh...incident.)

I DIDN'T see the Mafia 2 incident, but if it was anything like M4, Ship of Doom. . .

[Blaster Master]

I DIDN'T see the Mafia 2 incident, but if it was anything like M4, Ship of Doom. . .

It was worse... it's what gave them the idea to do what he did on the Hispaniola. Except, he was speaking in mafia talk instead of pirate talk. He ended up getting unanimously lynched, it was very funny, except for the fact that it was a terrible day for us townies.

[CatInASuit]

A few initial thoughts

I think the number of scum is going to be 6 or 7 + 1 recruit. I think the recruit will be a lot less effective than in M3 as the number of people who can resist it is much higher and a few of them should remain hidden through to the endgame.
The scum success will depend on play and not numbers though, in M3 considering that there were 4 scum, they were all found with 6 townies left if you count out the recruit.

Using pure random votes on the first day is a bad idea. Using random votes to prod other people into making them talk and get an idea of the responses from them and others is a much better idea.

Mtgman seems to be varying between saying lynch non-believers and don't lynch them. He seems to have also missed out that the Crusader can activate the PsychoPath and advocating the use of random votes would also allow the scum to hide their trails for a couple of days as well.

sachertorte post almost makes me think that the majority of the cultists is in the bottom half of the set,. He would know if he was a cultist and this strategy would point the Oracle away from more scum than less, if the Oracle follows his theory.

Its also interesting that MtS and NAF1138 have both voted for CJ but are saying that they have not much reason to Dunk her?

Actually I see that storyteller0910 has picked up on the same points as well.

Let the game continue...

[CatInASuit]

Quiet in here isn't it

Clockwork Jackal. All The best for your FMIL. I hope you join us lurking in Forbidden Thread when things get better.

As for the game, it seems it has calmed down from the initial activity. I don't think anyone can be classed as lurking yet, but some people are posting a lot more than others.

I hope they have got the Oracle/Apprentice talk over, although I think sachertorte is attracting a little too much attention. However, he still feels scummy to me. The Oracle/Apprentice should also not roleclaim until they have found the Prophet, otherwise, the recruit is going to wind up coming from any group they have cleared.

Pasta and storyteller0910 look to be townie and are trying to get discussion moving in the right direction. HazelNutCoffee also seems to be pointing in the right direction as well.

Other scummy looking people to me are MadtheSwine for his initial Clockwork Jackal vote and zuma for his vote on Hal Briston.

Also even if he did not edit his post, I really don't agree with Mtgman adding an edit entry to the bottom of his post.

Let the game continue...

[Blaster Master]

Would anyone say I'm a bit sadistic for enjoying the whole Oracle / Apprentice discussion? There's definitely some ideas coming up that I hadn't considered when I designed the role. I do find it kind of strange that the none of the ideas I'd had in mind have been mentioned, then again, it's already moot anyway.

[Blaster Master]

Oh, I'm also interested in knowing what you all think would be a balanced number of scum and Non-Believers. I'm very intrigued by the guesses at the number of scum and Non-Believers that I chose. It's interesting that no one has really seemed to pinpoint my reasoning in the design of the Non-Believer role; they seem too locked into how their win condition is related to the mason win condition from M3.

[CatInASuit]

Would anyone say I'm a bit sadistic for enjoying the whole Oracle / Apprentice discussion? There's definitely some ideas coming up that I hadn't considered when I designed the role. I do find it kind of strange that the none of the ideas I'd had in mind have been mentioned, then again, it's already moot anyway.

No, I think it is quite an amusing diversion as well. It just doesn't help the town at all. I think they are getting too hooked up on trying to get the Apprentice up to the same level as the Oracle which will not happen until the Oracle is dead anyway. Until that time, anything the Apprentice finds out is suspect.

In terms of the number of the non-believer role, I think it is there to hide the cultists rather than provide an extra win condition and provide an extra level of suspicion. Towards the end of the game, it could be fun watching the vanilla townies killing off all the known non-believers in the hope they are getting a cultist without taking out the unknown players, which will probably include more of the cultists

[panamajack]

I haven't read the entire thread in detail, but has no one proposed that the Apprentice is at best merely a back-up to the Oracle? An inaccurate Detective is of little to no use. I would think the best Apprentice strategy is to get the Oracle's attention, and drop no breadcrumbs at all. Once the Oracle finds a couple potential scum and the Apprentice, the Oracle can role-claim to pick off the scum (hopefully), confident that if they die they have an exact replacement. Until then, the Apprentice should simply stay hidden.

I'm trying to figure the balance -

Detective role is weakened greatly by the non-believers, but also strengthened by the back-up in case of death. Maybe it balances out.

Doctor roles - roughly 1 1/2, I'd say. At least the disciple is good from the start.

Crusader is at the start a detriment to the town, and Pyschopath could eventually be one as well.

The Avatar is potentially more harmful to scum than town, but only mildly so. It's more likely to affect behavior and voting discussions.

I think 7 scum would be too high, so probably 6 total to start, though 5 would work. 4 seems too low in this game.

My guesses on the numbers :

Cult : Prophet, Avatar, 4 Cultists
Non-believers : Alchemist, Psycho, 2 non-psycho (4 total but one could go off)
Town: Priest, Disciple, Oracle, Apprentice, Crusader, 3 Monks (the standard), 12 vanilla town.

One question for Blaster Master - is the secret role something that shows up on investigators?

[Blaster Master]

One question for Blaster Master - is the secret role something that shows up on investigators?

To be honest, I haven't completely decided on that. To avoid giving it away, I'm strongly leaning toward just reading as the default for it's alignment (ie, Believer or Non-Believer). FWIW, if you all are trying to spot the role, the person who has it does know (that is, it's not unknown like the Avatar and Psychopath).

My motivation for it, though, was two-fold. First, I think it's a neat role with lots of different ways to play it. And second, I like the idea of the town being unsure how many there are of a role, so I thought it would be really neat to see how they react to the opposite scenario of knowing there's a role out there, but not sure what it will do.

[Eureka]

. . . so I thought it would be really neat to see how they react to the opposite scenario of knowing there's a role out there, but not sure what it will do.
Ah hah! You have confirmed my suspicion. These Mafia Games aren't really games, they are psychological studies, which will have fascinating but statistically meaningless outcomes due to a combination of use of Dopers as subjects, the mostly anonymous nature of the games, and the unpredictability of the experiments.

Have you at least formulated a hypothesis? You don't have to share it, I just wonder if you've figured out what you are trying to prove.

[Clockwork Jackal]

Hey guys,

Thanks for subbing me out Blaster, I know I couldn't have participated any longer in the state I was in. My FMiL is getting better, and it's lucky she wasn't more seriously hurt!

I don't really want to reveal what my role was, but I will say that sitting back and watching certain exchanges between certain people is fascinating. :)

I am such a noob, I think just on day one I made a ton of mistakes!

Although, I am tempted to post in that thread just once to say "STOP CALLING ME A HE. I AM A GIRL" :)

[Blaster Master]

Ah hah! You have confirmed my suspicion. These Mafia Games aren't really games, they are psychological studies, which will have fascinating but statistically meaningless outcomes due to a combination of use of Dopers as subjects, the mostly anonymous nature of the games, and the unpredictability of the experiments.

Have you at least formulated a hypothesis? You don't have to share it, I just wonder if you've figured out what you are trying to prove.
:p I suppose there's a little bit of that in there. I think the wild speculation about the role of it being potentially game breaking, or being of either alignment or being utterly useless is telling, but it's also in the context of a game where it's going to dredge up a lot of paranoia anyway.

But hey, even if it IS a study, as long as it's fun, it can still be a game, right?

[CatInASuit]

Clockwork Jackal Good to hear your FMIL is getting better.


My guesses on the numbers :

Cult : Prophet, Avatar, 4 Cultists
Non-believers : Alchemist, Psycho, 2 non-psycho (4 total but one could go off)
Town: Priest, Disciple, Oracle, Apprentice, Crusader, 3 Monks (the standard), 12 vanilla town.

I would go with the same numbers except for 1 extra normal non-believer, 1 secret role and two less vanilla townies.

As for the secret role, I would go with investigation giving either a believer or non-believer result. Unless it is something like the Avatar of Nairu who will strike down any scum who participate in the lynch of the townie. ;)
Then it becomes a bit obvious to the Oracle.

They are still arguing over trying to apply Maths to the game. Maths will give a pointer and possibilites, but no hard data. Psychology will give reasoning and understanding which is likely to be more useful. But at least they are starting to try and look for scum tells in people's post and actions.

Also, does anyone else think that sachertorte might also be the Apprentice trying to get the attention of the Oracle?

Let the game continue...

[Eureka]

:p I suppose there's a little bit of that in there. I think the wild speculation about the role of it being potentially game breaking, or being of either alignment or being utterly useless is telling, but it's also in the context of a game where it's going to dredge up a lot of paranoia anyway.

But hey, even if it IS a study, as long as it's fun, it can still be a game, right?
Yes, . . . even if I can't figure out how it's fun.

Seriously, I enjoy reading pieces of the assorted game threads and forbidden threads, and I've played Mafia in real life, with just town and Mafia roles, but trying to figure out the details of the rules makes my brain hurt--let alone the strategy, and I much preferred games where we spent 5 minutes picking the first lynch victim, and half an hour later, we redealt the cards and started a new round.

[Vimp]

... I am tempted to post in that thread just once to say "STOP CALLING ME A HE. I AM A GIRL" :)

You and Flying Cow Of Doom should get together - tell them to switch gender roles!

[Blaster Master]

Hey guys,

Thanks for subbing me out Blaster, I know I couldn't have participated any longer in the state I was in. My FMiL is getting better, and it's lucky she wasn't more seriously hurt!

I don't really want to reveal what my role was, but I will say that sitting back and watching certain exchanges between certain people is fascinating. :)

I am such a noob, I think just on day one I made a ton of mistakes!

Although, I am tempted to post in that thread just once to say "STOP CALLING ME A HE. I AM A GIRL" :)

I'm glad she's doing better.

As far as being new at the game, I can appreciate it. I made a lot of mistakes in my first game (M2). Including playing WAY too aggressively, and ended up getting forced to role-claim in a way that was detrimental to the town. I think watching can give you a good idea, but you really only learn when you're actually making the decisions yourself and being held accountable for them.

To be honest, I think I'm finding the new players new to the SDMB variety (sachertorte, USCDiver, HazelNutCoffee, Pasta, Zeriel, Captain Klutz, Scuba_Ben, Mtgman, and you) more interesting to watch because I don't have an established idea in my head of how you play, so it makes the reads I'm getting (in conjunction with knowing their roles) less tainted.

[Blaster Master]

You and Flying Cow Of Doom should get together - tell them to switch gender roles!

Well, it's not quite the same... a cow is DEFINITELY female, so that's his own fault. :p

Meanwhile, Clockwork Jackal's is fairly gender neutral. Hmm...

[Blaster Master]

Umm... Wow (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8727196&postcount=649). Tryin' REALLY hard to break the game, eh? :dubious: :p

I'm curious what kind of reaction this gets.

[Millit the Frail]

Umm... Wow (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8727196&postcount=649). Tryin' REALLY hard to break the game, eh? :dubious: :p

I'm curious what kind of reaction this gets.

I've always wanted to see something like this happen. So which power role is he? I'm feeling pretty confident he's a pro-town power role looking really hard to maximize his power. That said, I bet they don't go for it.

[Blaster Master]

I haven't gotten a response from the Sub-list for a sub for Captain Carrot. If anyone in here wants to take his spot, shoot me a PM.

[Blaster Master]

I've always wanted to see something like this happen. So which power role is he? I'm feeling pretty confident he's a pro-town power role looking really hard to maximize his power. That said, I bet they don't go for it.

Well, I will neither confirm nor deny whether he has a power role or his alignment. What do you think he is?

I was mostly interested because the plan seems ALMOST perfect on the surface, but obviously since then a couple people have pointed out some flaws in it.

[Clockwork Jackal]

And pray tell how should I be of service on Day One?

FoS on you for your consistent and multi-game dislike for me.



I'm not even in the game anymore, and Autolycus is annoying me!

[CatInASuit]

One thing that has struck me about the game is the excess of perfect knowledge that is out there for both the cultists and the town.

The cultists know who they are, but the town also has two roles that know more about the town as well.

As for Autolycus , I can see him annoying more than just ArizonaTeach with his flavour text, but he is quite capable. In fact, given his latest gamespeak it would be highly amusing if he was the priest. ;)

I read through Mtgman's post and could also find a few flaws. It would certainly fail if the crusader was unluckily knocked off in the first couple of nights by the cultists. Also the Prophet reads as town, and if the Monks roleclaim, they will be first in line to be knocked off reducing the known town roles. Not to mention recruiting a known townie after they have been given the OK.

Blaster Master does the Oracle effect take place the night after he investigates the Apprentice, ie. the Apprentices success rate climbs to 60% the night after he is investigated?

[Blaster Master]

Blaster Master does the Oracle effect take place the night after he investigates the Apprentice, ie. the Apprentices success rate climbs to 60% the night after he is investigated?
It begins on the very night he's discovered. I was originally going to have it be the next night, but I figured the Oracle would have it hard enough living three days, much less finding the Apprentice and THEN living three days, so I thought I'd make it slightly easier.

[CatInASuit]

Well it looks as though the first day has drawn to a close and Mtgman is tonight's 'unlucky' chosen victim.

<sets up bar>
<fills bowls with nachos>
<sets up place card>

So, who else has been pinging everyone's scumdar then?

(No hints please Blaster Master ;) )

[Millit the Frail]

Well, I will neither confirm nor deny whether he has a power role or his alignment. What do you think he is?

I was mostly interested because the plan seems ALMOST perfect on the surface, but obviously since then a couple people have pointed out some flaws in it.

I'm not sure, but I think he's a role that has some "inside info."

As for the plan, it's the kind of thing that, if it went well, it would be spectacular, but if their luck was seriously bad for a day or two, it would be spectacularly awful.

I have to catch up on the weekend, since I've been out of town for a few days. Looks like I'm going to be here for a while.

[Millit the Frail]

I'm not sure, but I think he's a role that has some "inside info."

As for the plan, it's the kind of thing that, if it went well, it would be spectacular, but if their luck was seriously bad for a day or two, it would be spectacularly awful.

I have to catch up on the weekend, since I've been out of town for a few days. Looks like I'm going to be here for a while.

OK, guess I was wrong! :o

[Mtgman]

The idea was to make myself high profile enough to draw an early night kill. I was hoping I was the psychopath. That would have been fun. I should have worked out the math for a the approaches I suggested so they were less ambigious. I think some anti-town players were able to take advantage of the lack of hard data in the skeletons of the plans I put forth and spin them as bad for the town, thus casting suspicion on me among the general population instead of just the scum population(which was my goal). Maybe I'll work out the math here, but I'm pretty sure the second approach would give the town a strong chance. The Oracle and Apprentice can investigate disjoint sets of individuals because the Apprentice can work in the open.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Blaster Master]

The idea was to make myself high profile enough to draw an early night kill. I was hoping I was the psychopath. That would have been fun. I should have worked out the math for a the approaches I suggested so they were less ambigious. I think some anti-town players were able to take advantage of the lack of hard data in the skeletons of the plans I put forth and spin them as bad for the town, thus casting suspicion on me among the general population instead of just the scum population(which was my goal). Maybe I'll work out the math here, but I'm pretty sure the second approach would give the town a strong chance. The Oracle and Apprentice can investigate disjoint sets of individuals because the Apprentice can work in the open.

Enjoy,
Steven

Now that you say that, that makes perfect sense. I think I'll be needing some more Subs (like for AZT in particular), and since you don't have any special knowledge, you'd be eligible to be subbed back in, if you want to be on the sub list. I still have some reading to catch up on, but it's shaping up to be a very interesting Night.

[Blaster Master]

Yes, looking for a Sub for ArizonaTeach. If anyone is interested, send me a PM.

[GreedySmurf]

This is is actually the first time I've ever run across the Mafia game.

I was sort of vaguely aware of the Mafia IV thread, but never looked in, on the basis I thought it was "some internet forum game thing" :p Not trying to slander the game or anything, but I'd never encountered it before.

I'm not entirely sure I entirely understand it all still. I've only skimmed the first 6 pages or so of the 'V' thread, I presume as I get time to read the thread further it starts to develop more.

One question I have is what is FOS? I can't seem to figure it out from the context of it's usage?

If anyone feels inclined, care to give me a brief precis on how the game works, I've wikied it but it didn't go into real depth?

[Blaster Master]

This is is actually the first time I've ever run across the Mafia game.

I was sort of vaguely aware of the Mafia IV thread, but never looked in, on the basis I thought it was "some internet forum game thing" :p Not trying to slander the game or anything, but I'd never encountered it before.

I'm not entirely sure I entirely understand it all still. I've only skimmed the first 6 pages or so of the 'V' thread, I presume as I get time to read the thread further it starts to develop more.

One question I have is what is FOS? I can't seem to figure it out from the context of it's usage?

If anyone feels inclined, care to give me a brief precis on how the game works, I've wikied it but it didn't go into real depth?

FOS = Finger of Suspicion. Basically it's used when you're not convinced enough to vote for someone or you already have your vote elsewhere.

Essentially, while this is a fairly complex incarnation, you have a small group of "scum" who work together and kill a player each night, and a large group of "townies" who, combined with the scum, vote during the day to try to kill a potential scum. It's basically a battle of superior numbers versus superior knowledge. The scum, knowing who their allies are, could defend them and could vote out townies, but if they did they'd easily be found out and get voted out by superior numbers. The game goes through repeating cycles of Day and Night until one of the ending conditions is met, usually where the town wins when ALL of the scum are dead or the scum when when they are no longer out-numbered.

This particular incarnation has several "power roles" which have various powers, including investigation (where they can determine someone's role at night), killing (where, they can also kill a player at night besides the scum), and protection (where they can keep scum and other killing roles from killing at night).

If you're just learning about the game, because this is a complicated version, you may be better off going back and reading the initial werewolf thread or going to mafiascum.net and reading through some rules and games there.

[Mtgman]

Now that you say that, that makes perfect sense. I think I'll be needing some more Subs (like for AZT in particular), and since you don't have any special knowledge, you'd be eligible to be subbed back in, if you want to be on the sub list. I still have some reading to catch up on, but it's shaping up to be a very interesting Night.
I'm not sure it would be wise to put me right back in the game. They just managed to get rid of me. I'll keep an eye on it and if you're having trouble getting subs I may be willing to do so in a couple Days or so. I think the wounds, or the perception thereof, may be too fresh for an immediate resurrection. I thank you for the thought though.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Millit the Frail]

I thought I'd be able to sub in after a week or two, but I find myself unable to join in. I can't jump in to this game, it's just too big and the thread's too long. I think the only way I'd be willing to play again is if there were fewer players, or if there were some sort of way to ensure fewer posts without stifling gameplay. I admit to skimming an awful lot during M3.

Maybe someone would be willing to run a Mafia: Kinder and Gentler: We Really Mean It This Time version?

[Blaster Master]

I thought I'd be able to sub in after a week or two, but I find myself unable to join in. I can't jump in to this game, it's just too big and the thread's too long. I think the only way I'd be willing to play again is if there were fewer players, or if there were some sort of way to ensure fewer posts without stifling gameplay. I admit to skimming an awful lot during M3.

Maybe someone would be willing to run a Mafia: Kinder and Gentler: We Really Mean It This Time version?

Hey, I've done plenty of skimming myself. As much as I've wanted to give this game the time that I normally would, modding it takes some of that time away, so I had to largely skim over the last part of Day One. I know that Day had a LOT of posts and was going quickly, but I suspect that it will slow down over the next Day or two and it will make it easier to follow.

FWIW, I'm still looking for a sub for ArizonaTeach; it's open to whomever wants it.

[Mtgman]

See, this is the part that makes me laugh.R.I.P. Mtgman. You had some far off ideas but it's apparent now that your motives were pure.Heh, yea. Except for the part where I was trying to find out if I liked your liver with fava beans and a nice chianti.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Heller Highwater]

Maybe someone would be willing to run a Mafia: Kinder and Gentler: We Really Mean It This Time version?
I know I don't post much, but I've been following all the Mafia threads so far (except for the off-board one), and I've run several in-person games, as well as participated in online ones. I might be willing to run a game after this one's over.

I've actually got some ideas, and pretty much have all the roles I'd need fleshed out. (In fact, I may wind up running a similar in-person game the next time we decide to play, which could be who knows when. ;) ) I'd try to keep things simple, close to the first Werewolves game.

[Blaster Master]

I know I don't post much, but I've been following all the Mafia threads so far (except for the off-board one), and I've run several in-person games, as well as participated in online ones. I might be willing to run a game after this one's over.

I've actually got some ideas, and pretty much have all the roles I'd need fleshed out. (In fact, I may wind up running a similar in-person game the next time we decide to play, which could be who knows when. ;) ) I'd try to keep things simple, close to the first Werewolves game.

Just a warning: make sure you get permission from the mods before running one. As far as I know, there's a waiting list with at least half a dozen people on it. That's why M4 was run off board.

Either way, I am interested in playing a simpler version next, which I think Idle Thoughts said he'd be running off board as well. I had to do this one though, just because I had it running in my head for so long. I'm really curious to see how some of actions from last Night play out today.

[Heller Highwater]

Right. If I were to run one, I know I'd need to talk to the mods first. Given that this game is still fresh, though, I figure there's still plenty of time to worry about that.

[zuma]

Why the hell would they kill me of all people? Maybe because I didn't have a chance to participate much my death wouldn't tell the town much. Here I was, my hellish week of work behind me, starting my vacation, and eager to play... and then this haha.

I agree with Pleonast yet again. Mal is looking kind of scummy now. My initial blowing off of Mal's vote for me was because I think day 1s in and of themselves are useless and nobody has a good reason to vote for anyone.

[Blaster Master]

Why the hell would they kill me of all people? Maybe because I didn't have a chance to participate much my death wouldn't tell the town much. Here I was, my hellish week of work behind me, starting my vacation, and eager to play... and then this haha.

I agree with Pleonast yet again. Mal is looking kind of scummy now. My initial blowing off of Mal's vote for me was because I think day 1s in and of themselves are useless and nobody has a good reason to vote for anyone.

To be honest, I know why you were killed, and I'm not 100% sure I follow it either. Oh well...

On the plus side, you were just a vanilla citizen, so you'd be elligible to sub back in, if you want, should the need arise.

[zuma]

Yeah, I'd like to be subbed back in if you need someone. I kind of felt bad about not being able to participate much day 1 (I did make that point clear in my posts).

Anyway, I'll be following along. PM me if you need a sub. I'll stay out of the forbidden thread from here on out to keep my nose clean.

[dotchan]

Newbie here, I've played light variations of Mafia before and I've seen it played out over various LJ-based RPs, but I still don't understand half of what you guys are talking about.

So, first, a question whose answer should probably be blindingly obvious:

What the heck does FOS mean? :confused: :o

[Heller Highwater]

FOS=Finger of Suspicion. It's for when you think someone looks shady, but not necessarily enough to vote against yet, for one reason or another.

[Millit the Frail]

I've been quite unable to keep up with this game, but I just noticed that Hal gave me a shout-out by using my spreadsheet template. Hope you're having fun, Hal! And if you're really Mafia and you're using it to gain trust, then you're absolutely brililant. After I started that spreadsheet, no one even looked at me cross-eyed. :)

[Kat]

Well, that was fun while it lasted. I did much better last time.

*grabs the nachos* Anyone want some Scope wine?

[Blaster Master]

Well, that was fun while it lasted. I did much better last time.

*grabs the nachos* Anyone want some Scope wine?

Heh... blame my fiancée. If she hadn't kept every minute of my day yesterday, the day would have ended on time and you wouldn't be dead. :p

I really hope that whole thing doesn't throw off the game.

[Kat]

Aha! FOS Blaster Master's fiancée!

[Clockwork Jackal]

*grabs the nachos* Anyone want some Scope wine?


Scope wine?

I'll take "Stuff you should never make wine out of" for $200 Alex! :D

[Blaster Master]

Aha! FOS Blaster Master's fiancée!
:p

Well, certainly after the way things went down, I wanna give her the finger, and not the one of suspicion. :rolleyes:

[Blaster Master]

Umm... welcome to the forbidden thread to storyteller and diggit. The deaths don't look like they bode too well for the town today, but we'll have to see how they react.

[storyteller0910]

Well, what the hell? Diggit, did you kill me, and if so, why?

I am tremendously frustrated; seems like Night 2 is my Waterloo.

[DiggitCamara]

Well, what the hell? Diggit, did you kill me, and if so, why?

I am tremendously frustrated; seems like Night 2 is my Waterloo.
Sorry, dude, but a couple of replies from you read like "soft redirections" of votes away from Kat/Arizona Teach. And since you had already used that technique to redirect votes away from Kyrie/Clockwork (whom I also suspected as a Cultist)...

To be fair, I fully expected to be wrong. However, since you had "defended" Clockwork, it seemed more likely that you'd be the "weaker" Power Role on that equation and preferred to err on that side of the equation.

I wonder if my death was directed... I guess it was. I shouldn't have get involved in the Crusader questions on Day 2.

(On the other hand, rejoice, storyteller! At least you still have a shot at winning...)

[Blaster Master]

Well, what the hell? Diggit, did you kill me, and if so, why?

I am tremendously frustrated; seems like Night 2 is my Waterloo.

I think your performance in M2 has pretty much stigmatized you. It's a shame, you're two of the people I've enjoyed watching play the most, because I was learning good stuff about how those roles should be played.

[storyteller0910]

I think your performance in M2 has pretty much stigmatized you. It's a shame, you're two of the people I've enjoyed watching play the most, because I was learning good stuff about how those roles should be played.

It's funny - looking at Diggit's reply above has driven home the thing that makes this game so difficult. My replies "directing suspicion away from Kat" were obviously no such thing - I was town, had no way of knowing her identity, so how could I accomplish this? Had I been scum, I would most certainly have made more of an effort to be at least tangentially involved in that lynch if it happened.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the way that players go about identifying scum tells is seriously flawed, because when I was being as scummy as I could be, I was universally trusted; when I have played town, I have been pegged as potential scum repeatedly. It's odd.

----

Hey, Mtgman, are you in here? Want to hear a funny story?

[Blaster Master]

Hey, Mtgman, are you in here? Want to hear a funny story? :D Maybe people won't think you're a mafia god anymore after they hear this, eh?

[DiggitCamara]

It's funny - looking at Diggit's reply above has driven home the thing that makes this game so difficult. My replies "directing suspicion away from Kat" were obviously no such thing - I was town, had no way of knowing her identity, so how could I accomplish this? Had I been scum, I would most certainly have made more of an effort to be at least tangentially involved in that lynch if it happened.

(snip)

I should clarify: On Day 1 you called out MadtheSwine for voting against Clockwork for some reason. That was actually the "implicit defense" I saw.

On Day 2 you did a similar thing, several times. You called someone out because they remarked on A's behavior but not on B's behavior, doing the same thing.

Most of those remarks were about people calling Kat out for some behavior.

Since you were already on my radar because on Day 1 you subtly "defended" someone without prior knowledge, this "confirmed" my knowledge about you.


Obviously I was wrong, at least on your Day 2 behavior towards Kat...

[storyteller0910]

I should clarify: On Day 1 you called out MadtheSwine for voting against Clockwork for some reason. That was actually the "implicit defense" I saw.

On Day 2 you did a similar thing, several times. You called someone out because they remarked on A's behavior but not on B's behavior, doing the same thing.

Most of those remarks were about people calling Kat out for some behavior.

Since you were already on my radar because on Day 1 you subtly "defended" someone without prior knowledge, this "confirmed" my knowledge about you.


Obviously I was wrong, at least on your Day 2 behavior towards Kat...

I don't know how much I should say in response to this, for fear of revealing too much, but in general, when I was calling out people for voting for either Kat/AZ or CJ/KE, it was because I found fault with the strength or consistency of their reasons for voting. I probably should have stated this explicitly, but I didn't intend any of those posts as a defense of a particular player - my argument was that the evidence presented was insufficient or, in my opinion, outright fabricated. Does that make sense?

I certainly wouldn't be ox-handed enough to actively defend someone about whom I had prior knowledge. Oh, well; live (or in my case, get killed by a vigilante) and learn. :)

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)

I certainly wouldn't be ox-handed enough to actively defend someone about whom I had prior knowledge. Oh, well; live (or in my case, get killed by a vigilante) and learn. :)

Same here... should have gone with Autolycus; anyhow, he seems to be the popular option :p .

What was your funny story, then?

[storyteller0910]

Same here... should have gone with Autolycus; anyhow, he seems to be the popular option :p .

What was your funny story, then?

Well, in order to tell it, I have to reveal one bit of still-secret information. I realize current players shouldn't be reading this anyway, but I want to get clearance from Blaster Master before I go blabbing that part. BM?

[Blaster Master]

Well, in order to tell it, I have to reveal one bit of still-secret information. I realize current players shouldn't be reading this anyway, but I want to get clearance from Blaster Master before I go blabbing that part. BM?

I was thinking the same thing, because if anyone did read this thread, the funny story could potentially lead to real knowledge in the game. I think it would be better in a PM for safety's sake (after the whole Idle Thoughts/tirial/Gadarene fiasco in M3), and it can be posted here later when it's no longer pertinent information.

[Mtgman]

I love funny stories, shoot me a PM. I won't be requesting to sub back in because I'm getting swamped at work.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Mtgman]

Ok, that was one hell of a funny story. That alone probably made the whole game worth it, even if I did go out ignobly on Day 1.

Enjoy,
Steven

[storyteller0910]

Ok, that was one hell of a funny story. That alone probably made the whole game worth it, even if I did go out ignobly on Day 1.

Enjoy,
Steven

<bows floridly>

My stupidity, she is limitless.

[Dragoness]

Ok, that was one hell of a funny story. That alone probably made the whole game worth it, even if I did go out ignobly on Day 1.


Okay, now that is thirty-seven kinds of not fair. I want the funny story! (please?)

[Blaster Master]

<bows floridly>

My stupidity, she is limitless.

Of course your stupidity must be female... misogynist. :p

[Kat]

Hey, I want the funny story, too! (I'd try to sub back in, but I don't think Blaster Master would let me.)

[Blaster Master]

Hey, I want the funny story, too! (I'd try to sub back in, but I don't think Blaster Master would let me.)

Sure, you can sub back in, but only as scum. ;)

[Kat]

Deal! :D

[CatInASuit]

Well having been absent for a week or so from the game, it is getting really big.

I pity anyone who has to sub in at this time onwards due to all the posts that have to be read.

BlasterMaster When setting the game up did you ever think that 30 players might be a few too many? ;)

[Blaster Master]

Well having been absent for a week or so from the game, it is getting really big.

I pity anyone who has to sub in at this time onwards due to all the posts that have to be read.

BlasterMaster When setting the game up did you ever think that 30 players might be a few too many? ;)

I was originally planning to make it 24-25 players, but once I had picked out all the roles and started playing with the numbers, in order to balance out the number of power roles, I had to add increase the player count. Of course, M2 still has this beat (it had 38 players, but three were dead on the first night).

I was also planning on the Crusader being alive a little bit longer, but it wasn't so much poor play on his part as it was bad luck.

[storyteller0910]

OK, is anyone else completely confused by the new strategy the town has adopted? Instead of having everyone spend huge sums of time compiling every single post made by another player, which at least had the pretence of objectivity, we have players creating endless post analyses summarizing their own participation - which means the good guys are going to spend reading and writing time studying their own posts instead of looking at the posts of others.

Who came up with this idea, and why is (s)he not leading the lynch vote right now?

[Blaster Master]

OK, is anyone else completely confused by the new strategy the town has adopted? Instead of having everyone spend huge sums of time compiling every single post made by another player, which at least had the pretence of objectivity, we have players creating endless post analyses summarizing their own participation - which means the good guys are going to spend reading and writing time studying their own posts instead of looking at the posts of others.

Who came up with this idea, and why is (s)he not leading the lynch vote right now?

It looks like it stemmed from Post 1468 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8769545&postcount=1468) by sachertorte.

IMO, post summaries have a very low signal to noise ratio. I thought they were a bad idea in M2 because scum tells are generally either small nuances like tone and wording that is lost in a summarization; plus, you had to concern yourself with the allegiance of the person making the summary. Was everyone REALLY looking over each summarization and making sure it was legit? If so, then the summarization was a waste of time. If not, they could easily slip in a few alternate interpretations to help change how someone appears.

This version is just as bad because you're essentially giving each person a chance to ignore points that look bad, and paint themselves to look better. You lose all subtlety and only have the major tells left that can't be washed out.

Thus, I think post summaries are only really useful when making a case, so it's not just "here's what was said, make up your own mind." It should be "here's what was said, here's what I think, do you agree?" Then there's a degree of accountability either way.

I do find it very intriguing that no one threw a fit about sachertorte's idea like they did for his other ones. OTOH, if it's a ruse and he has the time to devote to follow it up, it could be a brazen move.

[storyteller0910]

HockeyMonkey just basically said what I said a post or two upthread about the self-summaries. Good, sensible advice.

And I still think she's scum. Something about the fact that she never responded in any way to my very long post accusing her, just sort of let it float away on the wind.

Of course, I'm probably horribly wrong, since I always think she's scum for some reason.

[CatInASuit]

The difference between this game and M2 is going to be the number of night kills which will really start to drag the game out. Three kills a night can whittle the number of people down quickly. One kill a night is going to take a lot longer.

I will be honest and say I thought sachertorte was being scummy from this post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8721910#post8721910) onwards.

It was his just casual attitude to possibly being voted for. I could be wrong of course.

[Kat]

I'm just amazed at some of the analysis that's been posted about my posts.

[Blaster Master]

I'm looking for a sub for MonkeyMensch, is anyone in here interested? If so, send me a PM.

[Kat]

Has this game broken the record for most subs yet?

[Blaster Master]

Has this game broken the record for most subs yet?

I think so. I don't remember how many were in M2, but I think there were only two or three in M3 and about four in M4. I really hope there won't be any more, because that's one part of modding that I haven't enjoyed.

[Scuba_Ben]

Pass the nachos, please.

My mistakes in this game were pretty straightforward in retrospect, and all too common for me:
1. I didn't put anything close to enough effort into the game in the first two weeks.
2. When I got called on it on Day 3, I freaked out and suffered a medium to high degree of anxiety, so much that I had to pull away from the boards for much of the past week. I don't fault Queueing for this, if he hadn't flagged me somebody else would have. Had I had the right time in my head and made it back in time, I would've unvoted him. Not that it would have made a difference.
3. I said far too many times that this was my first game. I should've left it alone after I said as much when I signed up for the game.

Put them all together -- laziness, acute anxiety, and overrepeating minor points -- and sooner or later I set off everybody's alarms, not just within a game.

My conclusion: Playing Mafia is a bad idea for me. I've got my own issues to keep working on.

ETA: Blaster Master, thanks very much for the death scene. <applause>

[Blaster Master]

Pass the nachos, please.

My mistakes in this game were pretty straightforward in retrospect, and all too common for me:
1. I didn't put anything close to enough effort into the game in the first two weeks.
2. When I got called on it on Day 3, I freaked out and suffered a medium to high degree of anxiety, so much that I had to pull away from the boards for much of the past week. I don't fault Queueing for this, if he hadn't flagged me somebody else would have. Had I had the right time in my head and made it back in time, I would've unvoted him. Not that it would have made a difference.
3. I said far too many times that this was my first game. I should've left it alone after I said as much when I signed up for the game.

Put them all together -- laziness, acute anxiety, and overrepeating minor points -- and sooner or later I set off everybody's alarms, not just within a game.

My conclusion: Playing Mafia is a bad idea for me. I've got my own issues to keep working on.

ETA: Blaster Master, thanks very much for the death scene. <applause>


Don't feel too bad about it, Queuing has a way of getting to people. In M2, which was the first game for both of us, he and I had an even more robust confrontation, and the only thing that saved me from a lynch was that I had a provable power role. I definitely felt where you were, and why I was happy to oblige with your death scene and try to make it heroically sullen.

As for mafia, you're right. This is the sort of game where your enjoyment is pretty much directly proportional to the amount of work you put in and how thick your skin is. The most fun I've had was when I was "sure" (rightfully or not) that someone else was scum and took the time to research and put together a strong case against them. When I was scum, it was a blast watching people do the same thing and be SO wrong most of the time and then finding ways to tear apart their logic or support it, depending on what was in the best interest of the scum.

That said, you did have some very good points. I wouldn't give up yet... just maybe try a smaller, less complex game instead.

[Kat]

Welcome to the party, Scuba_Ben. Hey, you lasted longer than I did! :D

[Blaster Master]

WOW. I just gotta say, things are looking REALLY bad for the town right now. The sad thing is, if a couple of the decisions had gone slightly differently, it would be the other way around. Maybe that means it's well balanced...? I hope.

[Doctor Who]

WOW. I just gotta say, things are looking REALLY bad for the town right now. The sad thing is, if a couple of the decisions had gone slightly differently, it would be the other way around. Maybe that means it's well balanced...? I hope.Yeah, jeez. I don't know if you've spilled the beans on what the special role is yet, but at this point, I'd guess it was some sort of power role identifier for the Cultists. If you've already said, then please ignore my WAG.

[GreedySmurf]

Yeah, jeez. I don't know if you've spilled the beans on what the special role is yet, but at this point, I'd guess it was some sort of power role identifier for the Cultists. If you've already said, then please ignore my WAG.

I think that would be a far too powerful role to give the cultists? Given my lack of experience with these games feel free to tell me to belt up, but a role like that would tip the scales far too much in the cultists favour I would think. [Then again they have managed to off the Crusader and the Oracle I suppose :confused: ]

I presume Blaster won't reveal this sort of info, even in the forbidden thread, but I'm intrigued as to whether it was just stupidly good luck on the cultists part that they offed the Oracle, or if they somehow managed to ID him. I have only been skimming the thread so don't know if he said anything which would make him stand out.

From what I gather the Oracle is potentially the most potent weapon the town has.

Can I ask a tactics question to those who have played before? In this ruleset would it be tactically sound for the Oracle to role claim on the second day, such that they could then simply make pronouncements on who is who after each nights investigation, and simply flat out make a request that the Priest (whoever they may be) protect the Oracle each night?

The only issue I see here is would people believe the role claim?

I understand the idea is to "breadcrumb" your knowledge to others, but I just don't see how you could effectively do that? Unless the Oracle is expected to be a martyr role... drop your breadcrumbs along the good sir, without being obvious, so that when you die, we can go back and trace them all then :eek:


Thinking on the role claim bit, I guess a scum could try a ploy to claim it, and then sacrifice one of their own on the first "investigation" to prove themselves. And then they would have open slather, to insert a scum as a "confirmed" townie, etc.

[Omi no Kami]

I think that would be a far too powerful role to give the cultists? Given my lack of experience with these games feel free to tell me to belt up, but a role like that would tip the scales far too much in the cultists favour I would think. [Then again they have managed to off the Crusader and the Oracle I suppose :confused: ]

I presume Blaster won't reveal this sort of info, even in the forbidden thread, but I'm intrigued as to whether it was just stupidly good luck on the cultists part that they offed the Oracle, or if they somehow managed to ID him. I have only been skimming the thread so don't know if he said anything which would make him stand out.

From what I gather the Oracle is potentially the most potent weapon the town has.

Can I ask a tactics question to those who have played before? In this ruleset would it be tactically sound for the Oracle to role claim on the second day, such that they could then simply make pronouncements on who is who after each nights investigation, and simply flat out make a request that the Priest (whoever they may be) protect the Oracle each night?

The only issue I see here is would people believe the role claim?

I understand the idea is to "breadcrumb" your knowledge to others, but I just don't see how you could effectively do that? Unless the Oracle is expected to be a martyr role... drop your breadcrumbs along the good sir, without being obvious, so that when you die, we can go back and trace them all then :eek:


Thinking on the role claim bit, I guess a scum could try a ploy to claim it, and then sacrifice one of their own on the first "investigation" to prove themselves. And then they would have open slather, to insert a scum as a "confirmed" townie, etc.

As far as I'm aware a power role should never, ever, ever roleclaim unless they're on the verge of being lynched. The obvious problem with the oracle claiming up front is twofold: one, if a second power role claims down the road it'll be a guessing game as to who the doctor will chose to protect each night. This also applies to the doc: if the doc roleclaims while the oracle is anonymous, it'll probably be safe for he or she to self-protect that night. The second problem is it significantly lowers the chances of scum messing up; misdirection can be half the fun, and it buys the town valuable time if scum wastes several night kills trying and failing to nail people they suspect to be the oracle.

[Blaster Master]

Yeah, jeez. I don't know if you've spilled the beans on what the special role is yet, but at this point, I'd guess it was some sort of power role identifier for the Cultists. If you've already said, then please ignore my WAG.

Nope haven't spilled the beans on the role yet. I don't want to mention to much about that sort of thing in here, because I'm VERY interested to see how the town reacts to someone role-claiming that.

[Blaster Master]

Can I ask a tactics question to those who have played before? In this ruleset would it be tactically sound for the Oracle to role claim on the second day, such that they could then simply make pronouncements on who is who after each nights investigation, and simply flat out make a request that the Priest (whoever they may be) protect the Oracle each night?
IMO, this is a case-by-case sort of question. I really think that the Oracle coming out on the second day is almost always a bad idea, simply because he has to hope that the priest would trust his claim. The problem with that is, if the priest doesn't trust him, he's possibly dead and if the priest does, it leaves the priest vulnerable, whose value grows later in the game.

IMO, an effective oracle would minimize breadcrumbing for at least the first investigation, if not the second, because that's when the scum will be looking for tells. After that, he can start crumbing. At a certain point, the total knowledge he has is worth potentially trading his life (say after 3 or 4 investigations, especially if he's found scum). At that point, he can claim, prove it by getting the scum lynched, and then gain the protection of the priest and hopefully eke out another investigation or two.
Of course, if the priest is revealed, then you end up with a WIFOM situation with the scum playing chicken with the priest and trying to guess who the priest will protect.

Of course, I'm surprised this didn't really come up with this rule set, but one of the ideas I was expecting would get a mention would be having the oracle claim fairly soon, then give the priest's protection to him, and the priest the disciple's protection. This would both keep the claimed oracle alive, and the priest secret and largely protected. To break that, the scum would have to either get lucky when they found the priest or find the disciple, then the priest, then go after the oracle. Either way, from that, I think the expected number of investigations thereafter would be at least 2 or 3... probably more.

[Hal Briston]

Crap...I knew it...I won't go into detail, but my Mafia journal entry for last night lays out just how I screwed up and was going to be killed overnight. Suffice it to say, if everything that happened leading up to my downfall was intentional, then this pack of scum are fricking brilliant.

Can I ask a tactics question to those who have played before? In this ruleset would it be tactically sound for the Oracle to role claim on the second day, such that they could then simply make pronouncements on who is who after each nights investigation, and simply flat out make a request that the Priest (whoever they may be) protect the Oracle each night?Earlier on, I had posted this:
The only time the Oracle should make public his findings is A) if he's uncovered a large group of "non-believers" (some of which are bound to be scum), or B) if he's about to be lynched.At that point, I would've come out and left it to the Priest to watch my back.

However, I forgot about C) When you figure out that someone is scum. Had I survived the night, I'd have come out and exposed a Cultist. I made one innocuous slip that I'm sure tipped them off, though. Damn.

[storyteller0910]

Crap...I knew it...I won't go into detail, but my Mafia journal entry for last night lays out just how I screwed up and was going to be killed overnight. Suffice it to say, if everything that happened leading up to my downfall was intentional, then this pack of scum are fricking brilliant.
Earlier on, I had posted this:
At that point, I would've come out and left it to the Priest to watch my back.

However, I forgot about C) When you figure out that someone is scum. Had I survived the night, I'd have come out and exposed a Cultist. I made one innocuous slip that I'm sure tipped them off, though. Damn.

Damn. This sucks, but I am pretty sure it's too early to write off a possible town victory. Things have looked similarly dire for the town at one point or another in most of the games I've watched and played, but it doesn't take much luck for the pendulum to swing back the other way.

I do wonder if the Apprentice should role claim at this point, though, and earn the protection of the Priest while (s)he can. If the scum had a bead on Hal, and if the Apprentice has made any kind of effort to breacrumb his own role to Hal, then they very well might have a bead on the Apprentice, too. If the Apprentice dies toNight without ever giving any results, that would be very, very bad.

---------------

You know, having read Hal's incredibly cryptic post, above, and all the rest of the contributions, I'm wondering about the whole Forbidden Thread concept. What, really, is the point of having this thread if those of us who are out of the game can't share anything about the way we played? I think if there was a bit more open discussion, it might make this thread more interesting and active.

Right now, it's basically an extension of the game thread, with everyone holding onto their secrets. But since none of us is still in the game, we're not going to do the extensive post history research and analysis that we might if we were still alive. Absent the ability to talk about developments in light of the information we possess, there's relatively little to discuss.

Just putting it out there.

[Scuba_Ben]

Welcome to the after-party, Hal. Have some nachos.

If I hadn't freaked out as I did, my intent was to provide covering fire by dropping random breadcrumbs. Was this a good idea in theory?

If it doesn't affect the game, I'd be interested in hearing why Blaster Master chose to have scum ID as nonbeliever.

[Hal Briston]

Ok, all caught up on the Forbidden Thread now (I just perused the posts made after my murder before putting up my previous post).

I feel pretty positive about those two guys Hal and Diggit, for some reason....they don't strike me as scummy at all! ;)And whaddayaknow...you were right! :)

I've been quite unable to keep up with this game, but I just noticed that Hal gave me a shout-out by using my spreadsheet template. Hope you're having fun, Hal! And if you're really Mafia and you're using it to gain trust, then you're absolutely brililant. After I started that spreadsheet, no one even looked at me cross-eyed. :)Heh...well, it actually did get...ummm...Queuing, I think it was, to push his vote away from me. That wasn't my intention, I just found your spreadsheet to be very useful in M3, so I was more or less just putting it together for myself. If anyone found it useful, more power to them.

Guess I'm on the hook to maintain it now though, huh? Ah, that's ok...I'll be following along anyway.

Go town!!

[Hal Briston]

You know, having read Hal's incredibly cryptic post, above, and all the rest of the contributions, I'm wondering about the whole Forbidden Thread concept. What, really, is the point of having this thread if those of us who are out of the game can't share anything about the way we played? I think if there was a bit more open discussion, it might make this thread more interesting and active.Agreed...I greatly preferred the "Forbidden Thread" in the off-board M4. Since it was password-protected, there was no worry about info leaking out.

A "secret board" could always be made for these games, but the trouble there is there would be much less participation.

For the record, I really, really wish there was a secure place for these discussions, 'cause I feel like I'm going to pop with the dirt I wanna dish out. :)

[storyteller0910]

Agreed...I greatly preferred the "Forbidden Thread" in the off-board M4. Since it was password-protected, there was no worry about info leaking out.

A "secret board" could always be made for these games, but the trouble there is there would be much less participation.

For the record, I really, really wish there was a secure place for these discussions, 'cause I feel like I'm going to pop with the dirt I wanna dish out. :)

Well, there's always PM. I'd be very interested to hear what you've learned.

[Hal Briston]

Well, there's always PM. I'd be very interested to hear what you've learned.Heading your way shortly...anyone else want to hear me rant?

[Doctor Who]

Heading your way shortly...anyone else want to hear me rant?Ooooh, meeee meee meeee!!!

[Millit the Frail]

Heading your way shortly...anyone else want to hear me rant?

Even though I've been really bad about keeping up with this game, include me on the PM too. I'm certainly not going to be subbing in...I'll have to wait for the next version, once I'm not so goshdarn busy!

[Mtgman]

Heading your way shortly...anyone else want to hear me rant? Yep, and in exchange I'll forward you storyteller0910's funny story.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Mtgman]

WOW. I just gotta say, things are looking REALLY bad for the town right now. The sad thing is, if a couple of the decisions had gone slightly differently, it would be the other way around. Maybe that means it's well balanced...? I hope.
Two things to keep in mind here. The apprentice just got the "Oracle Death Benefit" effective as of last night's investigation. So the Apprentice is now a 70% accurate(with fails reading as blanks, so no false positives) Oracle. The investigative arm of the town is hurt, but not dead by any means. Secondly, the Doctors are still both alive and they can swing a game with good play. Depending on the ratio of Cultists to Town, it's either neck and neck right now or slightly favors the Cultists. I'd say they have two Day/Night cycles to get another Cultist or they're almost certainly screwed(barring brilliant play by the Apprentice and Doctors).

Enjoy,
Steven

[Hal Briston]

Yep, and in exchange I'll forward you storyteller0910's funny story.<Snerk> Good one, storyteller. :)

PMs are away!

[Hal Briston]

Whoops...to those who were PM'd, refresh that page. I had one player's name in a spot where I meant a different player's.

[Clockwork Jackal]

You know, having read Hal's incredibly cryptic post, above, and all the rest of the contributions, I'm wondering about the whole Forbidden Thread concept. What, really, is the point of having this thread if those of us who are out of the game can't share anything about the way we played? I think if there was a bit more open discussion, it might make this thread more interesting and active.

Right now, it's basically an extension of the game thread, with everyone holding onto their secrets. But since none of us is still in the game, we're not going to do the extensive post history research and analysis that we might if we were still alive. Absent the ability to talk about developments in light of the information we possess, there's relatively little to discuss.

Just putting it out there.


I feel the same way. I'd love to talk strategy more, but I don't want to give anything I might know and influence the game somehow. :(

We need a REAL forbidden thread. :)

Oh, and you all have to post all your funny stories, instead of PMing them, when all this is over!

[Mtgman]

WOW. I just gotta say, things are looking REALLY bad for the town right now. The sad thing is, if a couple of the decisions had gone slightly differently, it would be the other way around. Maybe that means it's well balanced...? I hope.
The only real concern I have with the game as it's been executed so far doesn't have to do with balance, it has to do with timing. With the Day ending on weekends it's too easy for the informed minority(who are planning on doping on the weekend anyway because that's when Night happens) to sway lynches. Many players are away for the weekend and bandwagons go off the rails at the 11th hour. Not enough players are around to see things like Hockey Monkey's Alchemist role claim and muster the collective brainpower to determine if it's credible or not. My own bandwagon was largely weekend-based.

11th hour roleclaims are part of the game, and I don't suggest trying to change that, but changing the timing of when Night falls to get the last hours of the Day visible to the most people evens it out a bit. Having the uninformed majority(townies) be offline at this critical time gives an advantage to the informed minority(scum).

Enjoy,
Steven

[Hal Briston]

Cripes...the more I read that thread, the more I feel like Sam Wheat...

[Hal Briston]

Might I just add -- damn, do I hope MadTheSwine really is scum. It was really just a snowballing twinge of suspicion that led me to vote for him, and now everyone is going crazy with it. Hopefully he floats, and my death will have been at least a little bit worthwhile.

[Blaster Master]

Welcome to the after-party, Hal. Have some nachos.

If I hadn't freaked out as I did, my intent was to provide covering fire by dropping random breadcrumbs. Was this a good idea in theory?

If it doesn't affect the game, I'd be interested in hearing why Blaster Master chose to have scum ID as nonbeliever.

There were actually a few convoluted reasons why I chose to do this. First, I did want to include two investigative roles, but I figured if they had pretty much 100% certainty on when they'd encountered scum, it would be a little game breaking. I also figured that, based on the theme, it would be a neat little twist to explain with how the roles work. I thought it would really make role claims, especially of a role like the Alchemist, very interesting, because it is 100% unprovable, so it doesn't come down to an investigation result, but in fact how well it's played.

Some secondary motivations included my motivations behind the Psychopath and the Crusader. That is, unlike the rest of the town, the Crusader absolutely wanted all Non-Believers dead, no matter what so he didn't care; OTOH, the Psychopath wants them alive at the expense of Believers. I was hoping to see some of the Non-Believers, not sure which of them is the Psychopath, possibly play a little bit anti-town and protect Non-Believers, even if they were more likely to be scum.

[CatInASuit]

I think I will hold off on getting any inside info and stories, If only because I would like to keeping trying to guess myself and post conjecture without anyone being able to read it and take it as fact. I will still be horribly wrong though.

I think it could do with another thread where those who have played the game can go and talk about it, swop stories.

Why not ask Idle Thoughts if he will create a special board for you to comment in with all the knowledge you have, password protected and off site.

[storyteller0910]

Just had an interesting thought:

If Hockey Monkey is lying about being the Alchemist, the best move for the real Alchemist right now would be not to counter-claim. By staying silent, the Alchemist really loses nothing - (s)he basically has a scum in hand for the rest of the game, one that can be quickly and easily lynched at any moment, or when the real Alchemist is offed.

But more importantly, if Hockey Monkey is lying, than the real Alchemist knows of at least one definite scum - which means the real Alchemist now has someone to block every night. Leave her alive for the rest of the game, and you now have a nonzero chance of preventing a kill every single night from here on out, a chance that gets larger each time you catch a different scum.

Of course, this is moot if Hockey Monkey is telling the truth.

But what think?

[Hal Briston]

Want the answer? Check that link I sent out earlier...

[storyteller0910]

Want the answer? Check that link I sent out earlier...

<smacks self in head>

I forgot about that. In like three hours, I forgot about it. Jeez, I need to sleep more.

[Kat]

Heading your way shortly...anyone else want to hear me rant?

I'd love to hear it, especially since I never got to hear the funny story.

[Mtgman]

I'm ok with you hearing the funny story, since you can't sub back in(or is that in doubt?) I don't think it could damage the game. If Blaster Master confirms your non-sub status I'm ok with forwarding it(or storyteller0910 can).

Enjoy,
Steven

[Blaster Master]

I'm ok with you hearing the funny story, since you can't sub back in(or is that in doubt?) I don't think it could damage the game. If Blaster Master confirms your non-sub status I'm ok with forwarding it(or storyteller0910 can).

Enjoy,
Steven

Umm... yeah, Kat can't sub in, because it would break the game. If she subbed in as anything other than a Cultist, she could out them all. And if she subbed in as a Cultist, the rest of the town would wonder why she wasn't outting them all.

[storyteller0910]

Does anyone but me think this lynch of MadtheSwine is a very bad one? They're hardly even talking about anything else now, and I don't think he's scum. It reminds me a bit of the Autolycus lynch from M2, which went down so quickly and so unanimously that there was no way to even comb the wreckage for clues.

[Blaster Master]

Does anyone but me think this lynch of MadtheSwine is a very bad one? They're hardly even talking about anything else now, and I don't think he's scum. It reminds me a bit of the Autolycus lynch from M2, which went down so quickly and so unanimously that there was no way to even comb the wreckage for clues.

But in M2, you were scum, and knew I was gonna target another townie. You DIDN'T like that!? :confused:

I can't comment on this one though, because I know what his alignment is. :(

[storyteller0910]

But in M2, you were scum, and knew I was gonna target another townie. You DIDN'T like that!? :confused:

I can't comment on this one though, because I know what his alignment is. :(

No, in that game I thought it was awesome. In this game, where I'm rooting for town, it doesn't seem like such a good thing.

[Blaster Master]

No, in that game I thought it was awesome. In this game, where I'm rooting for town, it doesn't seem like such a good thing.

Well, to comment on what I can say without giving away any of my knowledge, I do think you're right. Because he was away, he has a general ill-will toward him and it looks like they're looking for reasons to hang him rather than reasons why he's likely to be scum. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong either, because Auto was killed by Hal for similar reasons in M4, and that time he was scum. If I were playing, I'd really be pushing for more solid evidence, regardless of whether I was town or cult.

[Kat]

You're right, that is a funny story. Now, I'm wishing I could tell folks.


I'll go tell the cat.

[Mtgman]

Might I just add -- damn, do I hope MadTheSwine really is scum. It was really just a snowballing twinge of suspicion that led me to vote for him, and now everyone is going crazy with it. Hopefully he floats, and my death will have been at least a little bit worthwhile.
It's dangerous to get too invested in your twinges. I'm sitting here thinking I'm doing pretty good. I had four people id'ed on my scumdar. The first, and the person I voted for on Day 1(my only vote, *sniff*) turned out to be scum. I FOS'ed three other people. Of those three(storyteller0910, MadTheSwine, and Pleonast) we know the role of storyteller, who was going to be my Day 2 vote. He wasn't scum, but he did have hidden information, and he was using it to influence his game behavior, which set off my scumdar. So I count myself as being two for two at spotting people behaving in a manner inconsistent with the publicly available facts(which strongly suggests hidden information, and the only groups which have that on day 1 are the masons and scum). I'd love to be four for four, but I'm not so invested in it that I'll discount other motives. storyteller0910 being a monk really throws a wrench in my calculations because unless MadTheSwine is also a monk then there's no hidden motive for mixing it up with him early in the game, which is a big part of why I suspected him. If I were still alive I'd consider storyteller0910's demise(as a monk) largely exhonorating. I haven't seen anything from MadTheSwine which makes me suspect him on his own, although I haven't followed the thread as closely since my untimely death.

Enjoy,
Steven

[MadTheSwine]

Where are the nachos? Sorry to disappoint ya Hal

[SnakesCatLady]

Hi, ya'll! Is it too late to get in on the funny stories?

I think I was killed because someone I was investigating was scum; I'll bet it is MHaye.

[Hal Briston]

Where are the nachos? Sorry to disappoint ya HalWelcome to the netherworld, Mad...sorry my minor twinge of suspicion turned into a tidal wave against you. Very bad timing, that...Hi, ya'll! Is it too late to get in on the funny stories?I'll be happy to share what I know with you (same goes for you, Mad), but keep in mind that once I discuss what I know, you really wouldn't be able to be subbed back in if the occasion arises. Up to you...

[Scuba_Ben]

I'll be happy to share what I know with you (same goes for you, Mad), but keep in mind that once I discuss what I know, you really wouldn't be able to be subbed back in if the occasion arises. Up to you...
For myself, since I have no intention of subbing back in, please share!

SnakesCatLady, you did better than I did. Pull up a chair.

[Blaster Master]

As a courtesy to Idle Thoughts game that he will be hosting off-board, if you're interested, or think you will be, go take a look here: http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/

[SnakesCatLady]

I'm not going to sub back in, I think I'm going to take a bit of time off from gaming. So I'd love to hear everything! I wish Idle Thoughts game had held off a bit, I would have liked to play but I just have too much to do right now.

[SnakesCatLady]

No one is even going back and looking at who I suspected. I think I must have been close on someone or I don't think I would have been killed.

[Blaster Master]

No one is even going back and looking at who I suspected. I think I must have been close on someone or I don't think I would have been killed.

Well, they seem convinced about why you were killed, that it was because the cult thought you were a power role. Although, as you point out, that may or may not be the case.

In all honesty though, I'm starting to wonder how much the suspicions of the dead (unless they have extra knowledge) mean. When I played scum, sometimes we deliberately targetted people because they were dead accurate, and sometimes we targetted them because they were way off. So it seems like when trying to guess if someone was killed because they were getting too close or because they would lead everyone off course seems like a WIFOM situation for both the town AND scum.

Thus, I think one thing I've learned is that, unless you're quite sure you can manipulate how a kill is interpretted without getting stuck in it yourself, it's generally a bad idea to kill for those reasons. Instead, I'd say aim for potential power roles (for obvious reasons), town leaders (to instill chaos and reduce organization), and people unlikely to be lynched (for obvious reasons).

[Blaster Master]

If anyone who is not exempt from subbing back in would like to take Nava's spot, send me a PM.

[Hal Briston]

1) I know I don't have any official voice in this, but I say modkill Nava.

2) Anyone else think Zeriel is full of it?

[Scuba_Ben]

Does anybody believe Pleonast's claim? I don't know what to make of it.

[Blaster Master]

Does anybody believe Pleonast's claim? I don't know what to make of it.

Ooh, I know what to make of it!

Oh, darn... I can't say. :(

[storyteller0910]

Well, knowing what I know I can say very little. But I don't think Pleonast is lying, mainly because I can't see a single good reason for scum to throw out a false role claim at that point in the game.

[storyteller0910]

And while I'm at it, I can't believe the town is actually considering: (1) lynching Pleonast right this second, in spite of - or really because of - his role claim; and (2) specifically telling the Priest/Disciple whether or not to protect the Martyr.

Why, why, why would they do this? If Pleonast is lying, and they don't lynch him, the truth will out eventually. The Apprentice will investigate him, or he'll get night killed, or the real secret role (I'd be astonished if there were more than one) will claim or be killed. Lynch him when he's definitively proven to be a liar. If you lynch him now, and he's telling the truth, you've lost a useful asset - and, outside definitions aside, his powers may not be anything resembling what the definition posted in the thread claimed them to be.

But telling the Priest / Disciple not to protect him is crazy. Let them decide on their own. Let them keep the scum guessing. If the town decides as a group not to protect Pleo, and the Priest / Disciple actually listen, and Pleo is telling the truth, then you've just given the scum a free shot at a power role!

Augh!

[Hal Briston]

...and the Priest / Disciple actually listen...Therein lies the rub. The town can say whatever they like...it's up to the P/D to do whatever they choose.

One reason I occasionally mentioned to the group that perhaps they should drop the whole "the Oracle and Apprentice should do <whatever>" talk was that I wasn't listening. There were these massively long, thought-out strategy posts, and I was just skimming through them. I had my strategy, and I was sticking with it.



Although judging by how that turned out, maybe the P/D should listen...

[Blaster Master]

FTR, very few of the roles I included are intentionally not identical to their definitions. I won't explicitly state whether or not Pleonast's role claim is true, but I will say that, for a secret role, I certainly wouldn't do a such a plain role as the quoted definition that sachetorte quoted, I'd at least jazz it up a little.

I am kind of surprised no one has really explored the effects of various secret roles and how they'd affect the balance of the game. Clearly, I'm not going to put in a role that would massively unbalance the game. I really think the town will be better able to determine the veracity of his claim by examining how such a role would impact the game balance

I'm REALLY interested to see how the cult reacts Tonight as well. Will they consider him essentially confirmed and worth killing? Will they figure he'll get lynched anyway? Will they take a guess on whether he's convertable or not and try to do that instead? Maybe they'll convert someone else and try to make a frame him? There's ALL kinds of discussion they're probably busting at the seems not to start on. I've yet to see a dull Night.

[Blaster Master]

FTR, very few of the roles I included are intentionally not identical to their definitions.

I just realized that I'd butchered that sentence when I editted it. I meant it to say "FTR, very few of the roles I included are identical to their traditional definitions." Maybe that makes a bit more sense, eh?

[Kat]

I'd like to say some things, but I'd probably better keep my mouth shut.

[Captain Klutz]

So here I am, in that wonderful forbidden thread in the sky. That bandwagon seemed to pop up a bit quickly...

I'm not planning to sub back in, so storyteller0910, I'd love to hear your funny story.

And for what it's worth, I think Kyrie/Clockwork Jackal is the Apprentice (posts 531 and 627).

[Kat]

Hey, Captain Klutz! Come on in and grab some nachos.

[SnakesCatLady]

Hey, sorry for thinking you were Cult, Captain Klutz. But at least I got killed before I could get you killed!

Hey Kat! Nice cheerleading outfit! Wish I could go ghost around, especially since fluiddruid seems to think I am still alive. I "don't ping" her as scum. Hell, I'm dead - I can't ping at all!

[Captain Klutz]

Hey, sorry for thinking you were Cult, Captain Klutz. But at least I got killed before I could get you killed!
Hey, no hard feelings. I actually thought you were the Oracle, and had investigated AzTeach/Kat and then me. I got a bit of a surprise when a different Oracle turned up dead that night.

And Kat, I'll join you in some nachos. Although I'm not sure about the cheerleading outfit.

[Kat]

Thanks, SCL. I got it just for this occasion.

And, I don't think the outfit would fit you, Cap. :D

[Hal Briston]

Queuing got it in one:I think she was killed because the Cult thought she was the apprentice. I know I did.Same here. Excerpted from my Mafia Journal:

Now, I think I might have a bead on who my apprentice may be -- HazelNetCoffee? Is that you? Well, either way, you'll be the subject of my investigation tonight. Wanna hear a bit of crazy reasoning? Check out the hint I dropped in Post #301 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8719716&postcount=301):So in a nutshell, the Apprentice needs to find an unobvious way to say "Yo, Oracle! Over here!" asap....Now, since the apprentice knows that I'm the Oracle, they'll hopefully realize that I'm asking them to find an unobvious way to say "Yo, Oracle! Over here!" asap.

Now the crazy part: Check out the first two letters of the very next post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8719718&postcount=302). Yeah, I know...almost no chance of that being intentional. Still, HNC has mentioned the Oracle and Apprentice enough times that I'm pretty sure I've found my #2.As it turns out, my "Yo Oracle" post probably led to my murder, and I was wrong about HNC anyway. Bad ideas all around.

<sigh>...Ah well....welcome to the other side, HNC!

[Scuba_Ben]

Things are not looking good for the Town. I hope they can flush a few Cultists soon.

Meanwhile, HazelNutCoffee, have some chips and watch the rest of the show with us.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Whoa. I can't believe I got killed. I thought I'd be rather low on the kill-list because I feel like I've been so useless during the entire game. :p

Why did people think I was the Apprentice, though? Did I come across as trying to lay low without being too obvious about it?

Ah, well. It's probably good I got killed - I would have been unable to participate much starting next week anyway.

[storyteller0910]

I think things are getting awfully interesting now. I suspect the next two or three Days / Nights are going to tell the tale of the game. Remember, the Priest and Disciple are still out there, unidentified. The Apprentice has now performed a fair number of investigations and might have useful information. Who the heck knows what the secret role might actually have to contribute.

If the town could manage to weed out the Prophet somehow, they'd be in very good shape. If they can't, though, they'll be at an even greater disadvantage because of the recruitment possibility.

Can't. Stop. Watching.

[Blaster Master]

Queuing got it in one:Same here. Excerpted from my Mafia Journal:

As it turns out, my "Yo Oracle" post probably led to my murder, and I was wrong about HNC anyway. Bad ideas all around.

<sigh>...Ah well....welcome to the other side, HNC!

Without trying to give too much away. There was a post of hers that looked vaguely apprenticey to me too, even more so, but it wasn't that one. :p

[HazelNutCoffee]

If the Cultists thought I was the Apprentice, then I must have been doing something right, I suppose. Athough I honestly don't see how they could think that after the first Day or so. Everyone I voted for turned out to be not-scum (except for Pleonast, who remains unconfirmed). I was thinking that last Night was more significant in who they did not kill, rather than who they killed (me), but I'm just as confused as I was when I was in the game, so I could be way off base.

On a side note, the number of people having to sub out during this game is absolutely ridiculous.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, if any of you have suggestions on a way to rectify the situation fairly, I'm open to suggestions. I have a couple in mind, but they would be a serious case of bastard modding, and I certainly want to stay away from that.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I don't there is a way to do it fairly. The town is screwed either way. (And as an aside, I was thinking that the reactions to subbing could also be potential scum tells. As a vanilla townie it is EXTREMELY frustrating every time someone subs out. Just a thought.)

Honestly, when the next game is up I really think it needs to be stressed: games last several months, and if you KNOW that you'll be unable to access a computer for more than a few days at any one stretch before the game is over, you really shouldn't commit. Emergencies are inevitable, but at least this would weed out people with vacation/travel plans who are vaguely thinking, "Well, I'm sure I'll be dead by then."

To be fair to sachertorte, no one could have predicted the extreme amount of subs that have piled up throughout the course of this game.

Sorry the game is going so weirdly, Blaster.

[Blaster Master]

I don't there is a way to do it fairly. The town is screwed either way. (And as an aside, I was thinking that the reactions to subbing could also be potential scum tells. As a vanilla townie it is EXTREMELY frustrating every time someone subs out. Just a thought.)

Honestly, when the next game is up I really think it needs to be stressed: games last several months, and if you KNOW that you'll be unable to access a computer for more than a few days at any one stretch before the game is over, you really shouldn't commit. Emergencies are inevitable, but at least this would weed out people with vacation/travel plans who are vaguely thinking, "Well, I'm sure I'll be dead by then."

To be fair to sachertorte, no one could have predicted the extreme amount of subs that have piled up throughout the course of this game.

Sorry the game is going so weirdly, Blaster.

Well, I think I've got a couple ideas on how to rectify the situation. I really do think that subs hurt the game, but particularly for this one, the balance is very important, which is why I haven't just mod-killed a couple of times when finding a sub was a real pain in the ass. I think a big part of the problem is just that I was too ambitious. I think if the roles were more loosely balanced, a mod-kill would be a lot easier to justify.

[CatInASuit]

This will teach me to try and catch up on 30 pages and several days of game thread.

It also does not look good for the town as well.

However, Hal given your post #1645 where you appear to breadcrumb Hockey Monkey as town followed by her revelation of being an Alchemist mean she is much more likely to be the Prophet.

And no one picked this up and has challenged on it?

Reading through the rest of it, I would also guess that Queuing and Zuma V.2 for misdirection on Hal Briston's posting history and Sachertorte for suggesting two alchemists would be cultists in arms

Not many others are really looking like scum at the moment though.

[Scuba_Ben]

However, Hal given your post #1645 where you appear to breadcrumb Hockey Monkey as town followed by her revelation of being an Alchemist mean she is much more likely to be the Prophet.

Wow, I hadn't thought of that! That would be very interesting.

But I do agree, if they don't eliminate a second Cultist very soon, it don't look good.

[CatInASuit]

Wow, I hadn't thought of that! That would be very interesting.

But I do agree, if they don't eliminate a second Cultist very soon, it don't look good.

You can thank Zuma V.2 for that insight. In his recollections of Hal Briston's post he mentions Hockey Monkey being a possible town breadcrumb, and it does look really really obvious as a breadcrumb.

I think it is also the reason the Cultists knocked Hal Briston off, especially after Hockey Monkey's roleclaim.

As long as the Cultist's don't try to recruit, they don't care about the Alchemist.

Being Honest, if Hockey Monkey is lying and I was the Alchemist I would have claimed by now to get rid of a Cultist.

[CatInASuit]

Blaster Master. The game has actually run fairly well given the number of subs going on. I think in future though, there should be less players, especially given the number of posts generated on Day 1 & 2 of the game. Although I think shorter days may also assist in lowering the number of posts.

I actually think the town has not played as well as the Cultists who deserve to be ahead.

[Blaster Master]

Hmm... Idle Thoughts' list here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8840441&postcount=2526) is very interesting. There's exactly one cultist in each group.










Just Kidding :p . I just couldn't help myself.

Honestly, though, I'm surprised he would post a similar list again after the fiasco similar lists caused in M2 and particularly in M3.

[Hal Briston]

Hmm... Idle Thoughts' list here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8840441&postcount=2526) is very interesting. There's exactly one cultist in each group.Instant thought: "BM, you best be fucking with us..." :)

Now then, anyone who has the URL for the Top Secret Info Site (aka "The Oracle's Tale"), take a look again if you like...I've updated it to reveal (in spoilerboxed form) a couple of things.

[CatInASuit]

Blaster Master. I think you have taken the right action w.r.t Sachertorte.

I also think your reasoning is vague enough not to give any clues as to whether he is Cultist or Town.

I hope you don't get too much stick for it.

[Blaster Master]

Instant thought: "BM, you best be fucking with us..." :)

Now then, anyone who has the URL for the Top Secret Info Site (aka "The Oracle's Tale"), take a look again if you like...I've updated it to reveal (in spoilerboxed form) a couple of things.

Just out of curiousity, can you PM me the URL?

ETA: Yes, I was just kidding. But I couldn't resist after the fiasco from M3. :D

[Blaster Master]

Blaster Master. I think you have taken the right action w.r.t Sachertorte.

I also think your reasoning is vague enough not to give any clues as to whether he is Cultist or Town.

I hope you don't get too much stick for it.

Thanks. I wasted way too much time mulling over it. It's even harder to try to make an unbiased decision with perfect information... ugh. I also tried, as you noticed, to be as vague as possible about his role. The last thing I'd want is to go through all the effort to keep the game balanced and accidently tip his role.

[CatInASuit]

Thanks. I wasted way too much time mulling over it. It's even harder to try to make an unbiased decision with perfect information... ugh. I also tried, as you noticed, to be as vague as possible about his role. The last thing I'd want is to go through all the effort to keep the game balanced and accidently tip his role.

Of course, I still think he is scum anyway :p

[Kat]

That's a very insightful theory you have there, CatinaSuit.

[CatInASuit]

That's a very insightful theory you have there, CatinaSuit.

Thank you Kat. Although I guess you would know how true it is or not, and no, please don't tell me.

I would guess that there are at least 5 Cultists left out of the 19 town left, things are looking bleak unless someone else slips. What is concerning is that with a couple more town deaths, the cultists should be able to stack or divert any voting in the future. It also appears that the town don't really have any leads or slips to follow.

Also given the nature of these games Sachertorte will still be around in 2 weeks time. Although he will actually be away for 2 1/2 game days given that the game days are down to 4 real time days.

Actually BM, if you need a sub for the future from someone else dropping out and you think I haven't been too corrupted by the Forbidden Thread, I'm up for it.

[Blaster Master]

Wow, this Day is getting exciting. I wonder if anyone has the cajones to create a two or three-way tie?

[Blaster Master]

Actually BM, if you need a sub for the future from someone else dropping out and you think I haven't been too corrupted by the Forbidden Thread, I'm up for it.

I'll keep that in mind. I just REALLY hope I don't have to look at any more subs... it's getting stressful.

[storyteller0910]

I'll keep that in mind. I just REALLY hope I don't have to look at any more subs... it's getting stressful.

I have a bad feeling about the town's chances in this game. I guess, if the Apprentice can pull about four rabbits out of his/her hat, there's still a prayer, but the town just doesn't seem to be going about the search in a way that makes a lot of sense.

[CatInASuit]

I have a bad feeling about the town's chances in this game. I guess, if the Apprentice can pull about four rabbits out of his/her hat, there's still a prayer, but the town just doesn't seem to be going about the search in a way that makes a lot of sense.

The biggest problem for the Apprentice is that Cultists come up as non-believers, so its not as obvious as it could be.

I think it unlikely fluiddruid is in a Town power role, otherwise I would have expected a roleclaim by now.

All it needs is someone to switch from fluiddruid to Malacandra to cause some real problems. The problem is, none of them look particularly scummy, though I could be wrong.

[CatInASuit]

I really hope Pygmy Rugger has not just outed himself as the Appentice. I really hope so or this town is stuffed.

Either way, I would expect his imminent demise tonight. Unless the Priest decides to play double bluff with the Cultists.

[HazelNutCoffee]

ARGH this is so frustrating. I really, really hope the Cultists don't find a power role tonight. Or I hope they waste a recruit effort (by trying to recruit someone who can't be recruited).

Whoever the Apprentice is, they're doing a pretty good job of laying low.

[Blaster Master]

I have a bad feeling about the town's chances in this game. I guess, if the Apprentice can pull about four rabbits out of his/her hat, there's still a prayer, but the town just doesn't seem to be going about the search in a way that makes a lot of sense.

Well, things are looking rather bleak for the town; however, just like there were some key decisions early that could have swung the momentum either way (and ended up going the cult's way), there's a couple that I see coming up as soon as Tonight that I think have a much higher chance of going pro-town and giving them a huge boost in morale.

[CatInASuit]

Well, things are looking rather bleak for the town; however, just like there were some key decisions early that could have swung the momentum either way (and ended up going the cult's way), there's a couple that I see coming up as soon as Tonight that I think have a much higher chance of going pro-town and giving them a huge boost in morale.

Don't you just hate it when GM's get all cryptic on their players :D

[Kat]

Thank you Kat. Although I guess you would know how true it is or not, and no, please don't tell me.

All of it's true. Except the parts that aren't.

[CatInASuit]

All of it's true. Except the parts that aren't.

I'm so glad I saw it after the edit, I would hate to be spoilered now.

Just waiting for sun up to see what happens next.

[Kat]

Psst....

There were no names before the edit, either. I actually edited to fix a typo, and then couldn't resist making up an edit reason. Hence the "NOT!"

And that's all I have to say about that.

[CatInASuit]

Psst....

There were no names before the edit, either. I actually edited to fix a typo, and then couldn't resist making up an edit reason. Hence the "NOT!"

And that's all I have to say about that.


Hey, Game spoilers are a scum tell.

Oh Wait.....never mind ;)

[CatInASuit]

This has to be one of the quietest Mafia Nights I have seen.

The town looks really shellshocked at the moment.

So Blaster Master, what happens next...

[Kat]

*screams*

Sorry for disturbing anyone. Go about your business.

[Kat]

Blaster Master's obviously been kidnapped by aliens (or perhaps his girlfriend). I volunteer to take over!

[CatInASuit]

Blaster Master's obviously been kidnapped by aliens (or perhaps his girlfriend). I volunteer to take over!

I'm expecting him to turn up at 1:30 am his time, saying his GF has finally let him access the PC to allow him to post the start of day.

[Blaster Master]

I'm expecting him to turn up at 1:30 am his time, saying his GF has finally let him access the PC to allow him to post the start of day.

Close, but late enough nonetheless.

Either way, it was a very interesting Night... but I'll let you all figure out why. :D

[Kat]

Bah!

[Kat]

*incomprehensible mutterings*

[CatInASuit]

Close, but late enough nonetheless.

Either way, it was a very interesting Night... but I'll let you all figure out why. :D


How about:

The Cultists attempted to sacrifice the Psychopath activating him/her with the Alchemist blocking the Priest who was attempting to use the ritual to prevent anyone in the town from being killed overnight.

Was I close???

[Blaster Master]

How about:

The Cultists attempted to sacrifice the Psychopath activating him/her with the Alchemist blocking the Priest who was attempting to use the ritual to prevent anyone in the town from being killed overnight.

Was I close???

Oh, so close... ;)

[HazelNutCoffee]

I think they must have hit the Priest. Not good for town. Either that or make a recruit attempt. In which case I hope they wasted it. :)

[Blaster Master]

Nevermind. :(

[CatInASuit]

Here is how I see the current population of the town.

5 Cult : Prophet, 4 Cultists (inc. 1 Avatar)
4 Non-believers : Alchemist, Psycho, 1 non-believer, Martyr
9 Town: Priest, Disciple, Apprentice, 2 Monks, 4 vanilla town

Will, this be difficult for the town, yes, but not impossible.

It looks as though they believe Hockey Monkey's claim of being Alchemist, but I cannot believe no-one has even looked the idea of the Appentice coming forward as a really bad idea and, in fact, what could be a really big scum tell.

I would put aside the possiblity of recruitment until at least the next night, when one of the possibilites will disappear, ie: whether the Psychopath kills or not.

[CatInASuit]

Nevermind. :(

Don't worry about it. I actually prefer this thread to be kept spoiler free for those of us trying guess what's going on. It's like just like listening to a long radio mystery play.

It also allows those who want to sub in a chance to mention it without gaining too much info and of course prevents accidents like M3 from occuring. Not too mention my hopeless theories on the town.

You will probably get several requests for PM's asking what was so interesting, followed by several comments on this thread about how amusing it was. :D

[Kat]

You will probably get several requests for PM's asking what was so interesting, followed by several comments on this thread about how amusing it was. :D

*coughs discreetly*

[Blaster Master]

Don't worry about it. I actually prefer this thread to be kept spoiler free for those of us trying guess what's going on. It's like just like listening to a long radio mystery play.

It also allows those who want to sub in a chance to mention it without gaining too much info and of course prevents accidents like M3 from occuring. Not too mention my hopeless theories on the town.

You will probably get several requests for PM's asking what was so interesting, followed by several comments on this thread about how amusing it was. :D

It actually wasn't exactly a spoiler. But, it was only a step or two away from incidentally revealing roles. Goodness, it's hard not to give stuff away by accident.

[CatInASuit]

Oh well, another interesting day is passing.

One thing has stood out. If the recruitment did take place last night and the cultists wanted to pick someone for definite, then the obvious target would be Hockey Monkey. Suprising how most people still consider her town.

I am slightly concerned that the town is not pushing as hard as it might do and that a few players are either keeping a low profile or not posting. I get the feeling that a lot of the work done today was done by the Cultists.

Add USCDiver to my possible list of Cultists.

Hockey Monkey, sachertorte, Queuing, USCDiver, zuma being my current suspect list.

(Alright Kat, I know its horribly wrong, but I can guess :) )

I have a feeling that Pygmy Rugger is a town power role, but is backed into a corner from his/her posts and will probably be dunked unless someone can come up with a better idea.

[Kat]

I can't believe how quiet the game has gotten. I may have to break out the pom-poms again. ;)

[CatInASuit]

I can't believe how quiet the game has gotten. I may have to break out the pom-poms again. ;)

You're right, it is quiet, I just hope there is some sensible discussion instead of a rushed dunking.

You bring the pom-poms, I'll bring a marching band for support :cool:

[Kat]

I disagree. I'm all for a rushed dunking.

[CatInASuit]

I disagree. I'm all for a rushed dunking.

<Lobs water balloon at Kat :D >

Well, the town seems to have picked up a bit and the discussion seems more intense.

I'm not buying the Mal/PM angle that is being proposed and I can see Sachertorte being set up as a Cultist fallguy in the future as his name keeps appearing in the possible scum lists.

Given that the Oracle can only see if a person is town/non-town, looking to see who Hal B voted for is not helpful, seeing who he suggested was town or non-town is.

I'm am now more convinced that Queuing is scum along with HM and sach, given his description of breadcrumbing, but I'm less sure of zuma.

Current role claims are:
Hockey Monkey: Alchemist
Zeriel: Monk
Pleonast: Martyr

[CatInASuit]

Current role claims are now:
Hockey Monkey: Alchemist
Zeriel: Monk
Pleonast: Martyr
Malacandra: Disciple

I see that this new revelation has finally got the town thinking faster, although I guess the deadline has something to do with it as well.

Nice to see that DiggitCamara v.2 has had the same idea as me about the the Oracle's breadcrumbs and a possible pointer to the Prophet.

They might actually catch a Cultist tonight, although I hope they don't all have to roleclaim to make it happen.

[Hal Briston]

Might I just say how scummy I find it when people cast doubt on major role-claims? If Mal isn't the Disciple, then the real one will role-claim and Mal will get dunked. No matter what, a double-claim would lead to a Cultist getting caught within a Day, so quit bellyaching about it.

SFOS* FlyingCowOfDoom and Pygmy Rugger.






*Skeletal Finger of Suspicion

[Kat]

I wonder if I should start using "Pom-Pom of Suspicion" in future games. :D

[CatInASuit]

At this rate the next sub required is going to be for Blaster Master ;)

aaaaaand it looks like we are rushed dunking territory again.

[Blaster Master]

At this rate the next sub required is going to be for Blaster Master ;)

aaaaaand it looks like we are rushed dunking territory again.

:p

[Stanislaus]

On the downside, I hate to be out of the game. On the upside, I've got my life back.

Links to funny stories please!

[CatInASuit]

amrussell, welcome to the Forbidden thread, pull up a chair and grab some nachos.

As for you being dunked, I would say that was Scum led and they did a good job of it.

They would be able to guess who the psychopath was because they would not have expected you to be protected at night and by dunking you they free up other options for tonight, otherwise I suspect you would have been tonights victim instead.

So do they knock off Mal or Pleonast or go for a conversion?

[Stanislaus]

I really wish I'd been able to log in last night. There were so many "gut" votes coming out of nowhere and I could at least have pointed that out. At least I can hope they've revealed themselves now...

I had started to consider I might be the Psycho, after we lost other non-believers, but I didn't try and think of an appropriate strategy. (Basically, I didn't think I'd be that lucky.) I suppose I should have faked being the apprentice and sought out a night-kill, but that's probably harder to do than it sounds.

[Captain Klutz]

It's a pity the Psychopath was never activated, as having an extra night killer would have kept the Cultists on their toes. Then again, if you had been activated then the Cultists would have known your identity as soon as you made your first night kill.

I was also wondering if I was the Psychopath, although I didn't figure out how to attract a night kill attempt. It seems to be extremely difficult for the Psychopath to win, as he/she needs to survive to the end of the game. If I was the Psychopath then I was planning to lie low for a very long time, at least until after a subsequent non killing night, and only striking when we were down to 1 or 2 Cultists. Even then I might not win, as the Psychopath also needs a non-believer win.

A Psychopath on the loose would have livened up the game a bit - Blaster Master, were you ever tempted to move the Psychopath role to another non-believer? (No one would have noticed, as even the budding Psychopath is not aware of his/her role)

[Blaster Master]

A Psychopath on the loose would have livened up the game a bit - Blaster Master, were you ever tempted to move the Psychopath role to another non-believer? (No one would have noticed, as even the budding Psychopath is not aware of his/her role)

There was some temptation to fiddle with some of the roles, especially the unknown ones, but I thought pasta's play style, and then amrussell's, would have been a lot of fun to watch be the Psychopath. I have to say that I, too, am disappointed that the role never got activated.... certainly would have spiced things up.

In fact, I've been pleasantly surprised by the play of most of the special roles... I'll just leave it at that.

As for now, it looks like it's going to be a cat and mouse game with the Apprentice... the pool of relative unknowns is shrinking fast, which means the cult really has to think twice about targetting any of them hoping to find the Apprentice... however, each Night he lives, he has the potential to add one more person to the confirmed town list.

[CatInASuit]

Is there something wrong with this town??

They have just dunked another townie, especially one who could take the fight back to the Cultists and they are wondering if this is a good or a bad thing. (Admittedly the role doesn't like believers either, but hey, no-one's perfect)

I would expect a recruit tonight, given that last night's no-kill has been explained, although the pool of possible targets is getting smaller. Otherwise I would be taking out one of the three role claimed town roles to reduce the known pool.

[Captain Klutz]

I would expect a recruit tonight, given that last night's no-kill has been explained...<snip> (bolding added)
I'm not sure what you mean - the Psychopath was not activated, so we still don't know the reason for the no-kill.

[CatInASuit]

(bolding added)
I'm not sure what you mean - the Psychopath was not activated, so we still don't know the reason for the no-kill.

My mistake, I thought he had been activated and missed Blaster Master mentioning the situation in his end of day post. :smack:

It also means that the town lost yet another townie but they really don't seem to bothered about it????

I guess we will have to wait for tonight and see what the Cultists get up to.

[Blaster Master]

You know, I think the lost of Fretful Porpentine is a big one for the town... but it might just be enough to get them out of their rut in which they've been pretty much since the beginning... I suppose we'll have to wait and see, though.

[CatInASuit]

You know, I think the lost of Fretful Porpentine is a big one for the town... but it might just be enough to get them out of their rut in which they've been pretty much since the beginning... I suppose we'll have to wait and see, though.

Well, now that should explain the last two nights, my guess is Fretful was blocking on either Zeriel or Malacandra.

Considering that USCDiver (cultist, methinks) has gone straight for Pygmy Rugger makes me think that the town is going to umm and aaah throughtout the day and then dunk Pygmy Rugger.

Congrats to the Cultists though, they have played very well so far and cannot be that far off winning the game outright.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Oh, damn. Guess I should have listened to all the people who kept telling the Priest to self-protect, but I really didn't think I was on their radar at all and I figured they'd go for one of the many exposed power roles.

On the bright side, now I can read this thread :)

[Kat]

Welcome to the party, Fretful. No hard feelings.

Have some nachos. :)

[CatInASuit]

Oh, damn. Guess I should have listened to all the people who kept telling the Priest to self-protect, but I really didn't think I was on their radar at all and I figured they'd go for one of the many exposed power roles.

On the bright side, now I can read this thread :)

Don't worry about it, there were several people to protect and you can't manage them all. Pull up a chair and have some nachos.

My guess is that on the night before last, Malacandra protected you and the Cultists hit you on the same night. I don't think your death would have provided too many pointers to other Cultists, which is why you were targeted. When you were not killed they reckoned they had found the Priest, after Malacandra role-claimed.

Then again, I could be completely wrong :)

[Fretful Porpentine]

Don't worry about it, there were several people to protect and you can't manage them all. Pull up a chair and have some nachos.

My guess is that on the night before last, Malacandra protected you and the Cultists hit you on the same night. I don't think your death would have provided too many pointers to other Cultists, which is why you were targeted. When you were not killed they reckoned they had found the Priest, after Malacandra role-claimed.

Then again, I could be completely wrong :)
That's a definite possibility. The other thing I thought of is that maybe they looked at all the noise Queuing was making about my supposedly weird voting patterns, and thought that I was the Apprentice. (In which case, hey, if it buys the Apprentice another day, I don't mind being dead so much.)

[Scuba_Ben]

Welcome to the after-thread, Fretful Porpentine.

You certainly played far better than I did. I don't know if the Cultists fingered you, or if quite simply with 17 people left at yesterDay's Dusk, their odds of hitting an unclaimed power role are going up.

I'm wondering if some of the most vocal players are actually Cultists. (In fact, it strikes me as generally a good idea for some of the scum to play a vocal role and some to play quietly.)

CatinaSuit, why do you think USC is scum? I'd have to go back and see who initially "random"-voted for him on Day 1, as it may have not been so random after all....

[CatInASuit]

CatinaSuit, why do you think USC is scum? I'd have to go back and see who initially "random"-voted for him on Day 1, as it may have not been so random after all....

To be honest, with USC my opinion is more gut instinct than proof.

He seems to be repeating the same sort of accusations and following along the same line as the others I consider cultist, and it seems to fit the patterns of how I think they are operating. Just not all aimed at the same people.

I make no claim towards being right of course. :D

What is annoying is that I think there are 5 Cultists left, but I cannot figure out who the 5th Cultist is, as I don't think Zuma is it.

[CatInASuit]

CatinaSuit: Population guesswork

5 Cult : Prophet, 4 Cultists (inc. 1 Avatar)
3 Non-believers : Alchemist, 2 non-believer,
1 Special Role: Martyr
7 Town: Disciple, Apprentice, 2 Monks, 3 vanilla town

Current role claims:
Hockey Monkey: Alchemist
Zeriel: Monk
Pleonast: Martyr
Malacandra: Disciple

Cultist Guesses: Hockey Monkey, Queuing, Sachertorte, USCDiver

Chances of being correct: You're kidding right?!?!

[Hal Briston]

That's a definite possibility. The other thing I thought of is that maybe they looked at all the noise Queuing was making about my supposedly weird voting patterns, and thought that I was the Apprentice. (In which case, hey, if it buys the Apprentice another day, I don't mind being dead so much.)Trouble is, we're getting to the point where the Apprentice needs to spill what he knows (assuming he's been getting good readings). Before you died, that was fine, since he's be protected -- now it's a suicide post.

Hmmm...on preview, is there another protector role? I'm not home right now, so I don't have my printouts tacked to the wall...I seem to recall a semi-Priest role, though...

[Fretful Porpentine]

Trouble is, we're getting to the point where the Apprentice needs to spill what he knows (assuming he's been getting good readings). Before you died, that was fine, since he's be protected -- now it's a suicide post.

Hmmm...on preview, is there another protector role? I'm not home right now, so I don't have my printouts tacked to the wall...I seem to recall a semi-Priest role, though...
Yes, there's the Disciple, but since he's been exposed, he's got all he can do to protect himself. (I will say that if I were in his place, I'd protect the Apprentice instead of myself, but that's his choice to make, and evidently my habit of not self-protecting has gotten me killed, so who am I to say?)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Welcome, Fretful. :)

I have to say, the Cultists are playing quite well this game. Damn their souls.

[Kat]

Well, if he protects the Apprentice, that gives one more shot at a player reading than not protecting the Apprentice does. Of course, not a guaranteed thing, since the Disciple's protection is only 50%. Which is fine with me, since I want the Cult to win anyway. ;)

[Fretful Porpentine]

... assuming, of course, that he has a clue who the Apprentice is. Since I spent most of the game trying to play "spot the Apprentice" with the Cult, and I'm about 99% sure that the horse I backed was the wrong one, I'm reluctant to encourage that sort of thing.

Honestly, I think the Disciple's best bet is to use the reagents tonight and buy everybody another day. I should have done that last night, but I didn't think of it.

[Kat]

Well, in the situation Hal brought up, he would know the Apprentice, cuz the Apprentice would have role-claimed. ;)

[CatInASuit]

Let see, Malacandra needs a sub, so do I want to sub in to and spend the next couple of days with a huge target on my back before the Cultists catch up with me.

Oh why not

BlasterMaster - PM sent, if you think I haven't been spoilered.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Why do people assume the game will be over before three months? It's not like it's the first time people have played. Sigh. FlyingCow is right. It's not cool to join in on a game when you already know you'll be unavailable before it'll be over.

[CatInASuit]

Well because of, or maybe in spite of, the Priest being gone and Malacandra looking for a sub, the town has certainly decided to get a move on and start talking.

Here's hoping something good comes of it.

[CatInASuit]

So Long Forbidden thread - see you in a few days once the Cultists catch up with me :)

[Malacandra]

Thanks for that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8875829&postcount=232) note of support, Haze. Don't worry, it won't be a problem in future.

[Kat]

Because you're going to plan all future vacations, business trips, illnesses and any other absences around Mafia game schedules?

[Kat]

-double post-

[HazelNutCoffee]

Thanks for that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8875829&postcount=232) note of support, Haze. Don't worry, it won't be a problem in future.
Sorry if I offended you, but it's frustrating for townies when people keep subbing in and subbing out. The biggest reason I never joined any of the previous Mafia games was that I knew I would not be consistently available throughout the course of several months. Although to be fair, you couldn't have known that the game would have such a high number of subs that were mostly due to unannounced no-shows.

Yeah, I know, it's just a game. Hard to remember, sometimes. ;)

[Blaster Master]

Well, to be fair, I should have actually posted in the sign-ups what my estimate was on when the game would end (early September) and simply said that if anyone thinks they'll be without internet access for a week or more span during that time, they should probably think twice before signing up.

I also should have gone with my gut and kept the player list shorter... but I felt it was a better balance at 30 players than at 25.

...Oh well...

[Blaster Master]

Trouble is, we're getting to the point where the Apprentice needs to spill what he knows (assuming he's been getting good readings). Before you died, that was fine, since he's be protected -- now it's a suicide post.

Hmmm...on preview, is there another protector role? I'm not home right now, so I don't have my printouts tacked to the wall...I seem to recall a semi-Priest role, though...

IMO, it's looking like the game is going to come down to the play of the Apprentice Today and the next Day or two. If he can manage to stay alive and get at least one more reading, I think he'll make a HUGE swing in the town's favor.

Even if he doesn't claim today, I have to say, I think his game has been pretty darn good over the last few Days. It's going to be really interesting.

[HazelNutCoffee]

IMO, it's looking like the game is going to come down to the play of the Apprentice Today and the next Day or two. If he can manage to stay alive and get at least one more reading, I think he'll make a HUGE swing in the town's favor.

Even if he doesn't claim today, I have to say, I think his game has been pretty darn good over the last few Days. It's going to be really interesting.
I am crossing my fingers. Now that I know the identity of most of the players (a little bird told me, heh) it's quite frustrating to watch how the scum have been jerking the town around, but it looks like that some of the townies seem to be on the right track toDay. Here's hoping the town manages to turn the game sometime soon. :: lights candle to Nairu ::

[Malacandra]

Because you're going to plan all future vacations, business trips, illnesses and any other absences around Mafia game schedules?

Something sorta kinda like that, or something.

[storyteller0910]

IMO, it's looking like the game is going to come down to the play of the Apprentice Today and the next Day or two. If he can manage to stay alive and get at least one more reading, I think he'll make a HUGE swing in the town's favor.

Even if he doesn't claim today, I have to say, I think his game has been pretty darn good over the last few Days. It's going to be really interesting.

If, as you seem to be alluding here, the Apprentice has useful information to share, (s)he is absolutely crazy not to claim and spill it all toDay. The scum has been nailing power roles so easily in this game; the Apprentice could easily die toNight with whatever good work (s)he's done completely wasted. Claiming toDay guarantees the Apprentice one more Night at minimum - the Disciple protects him/her toNight, or at least threatens to, and he/she gets one more bit of info to share.

Every once in a while, I start to think that townies place a little too much value on hiding the identity of power roles. The Hispaniola game showed that even when the town power roles are outed early, they can swing the game in spite of - or, in some respects, even because - their identities are known to all.

[Malacandra]

True dat. Mind you, Captain Steele and Doctor Livesey played the most amazingly successful game of chicken with the pirates - every time one of them was left unprotected, the pirates tried to hit someone else.

[Blaster Master]

If, as you seem to be alluding here, the Apprentice has useful information to share, (s)he is absolutely crazy not to claim and spill it all toDay. The scum has been nailing power roles so easily in this game; the Apprentice could easily die toNight with whatever good work (s)he's done completely wasted. Claiming toDay guarantees the Apprentice one more Night at minimum - the Disciple protects him/her toNight, or at least threatens to, and he/she gets one more bit of info to share.

Every once in a while, I start to think that townies place a little too much value on hiding the identity of power roles. The Hispaniola game showed that even when the town power roles are outed early, they can swing the game in spite of - or, in some respects, even because - their identities are known to all.

If I were playing the Apprentice, I probably would have outted myself a Day or Two ago. I think he's been playing a very ballsy game and it's worked out well so far. Either way, I strongly he'll decide to step forward today.

Although, now might be an opportune time for scum to counterclaim and possibly get the protection instead of the real Apprentice, allowing the scum to target whoever either counter-claims or doesn't quite seem to believe the claim or simply their best guess.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I have to say, MHaye did play a pretty ballsy game. His timing is perfect, I think - it would have been too risky to wait another day. Hopefully it'll be enough to turn the game around.

[Hal Briston]

Thank God...I was beginning to pull my hair out waiting for him to claim. If he didn't do it today, I was notseriously contemplating outing him for the town's own good. My power being wasted was one thing...both our powers being wasted would've been too, too much.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Thank God...I was beginning to pull my hair out waiting for him to claim. If he didn't do it today, I was notseriously contemplating outing him for the town's own good. My power being wasted was one thing...both our powers being wasted would've been too, too much.
How did you know he was the Apprentice? I thought the Apprentice knew who the Oracle was but not the other way around.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Incidentally, I am amused that I was investigated by both of you. Must've been annoying to discover I was a vanilla townie. Heh.

[storyteller0910]

So now it gets interesting. Lynching DiggitCamara seems like the only logical play for the town at this point. A lot will hinge on whether or not the Disciple still has access to the guaranteed protect power. If she does, and uses it tonight, then the Apprentice will be 100% unprotected the following night. Part of me thinks the town's best chance would be for the Disciple to roll the dice and protect MHaye straight up tonight, while vaguely alluding that he will be using the guaranteed protect. If the scum bought it, and killed neither the Disciple nor the Apprentice, it would buy two more investigations from the Apprentice - if the latter focuses on just the unknowns, all the Cultists but the Prophet could wind up uncovered.

I kind of wonder whether the remaining Monks should claim at this point, too, just to narrow the list of possible suspects. It might be worth it - there's not much left for them to accomplish beyond that, I don't think.