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07-12-2007, 05:23 PM
If an error is made in an attempt to record the 3rd out, are all subsequent runs that inning unearned?
Here's an online baseball game batter-by-batter summary (my notes in parentheses):
J.Posada takes strike 3 looking. (1 out)
L.Koenecke grounds out to 2B. (2 outs)
J.Franco can't handle a groundball and J.Reed reaches on the error. (should've been 3rd out)
C.Williams hits a flyball 2-run homer to RF.
J.Mize grounds a single to LF.
D.Bancroft hits a shallow flyout to LCF. (3 outs)
Now then. Jeremy Reed reached on Julio Franco's error, so when Reed crossed the plate I expected it to be an unearned run. But Cy Williams' crossing of the plate is also considered unearned?
Had Johnny Mize launched another HR in the subsequent AB, would that also unearned? Or would it have been different, as there would've been no baserunners on base who reached by error?
07-12-2007, 05:35 PM
All runs scored after a botched third out would be considered unearned. The basic idea is, would the run have scored had the error not occurred. In this case the third out would have ended the inning and therefore no more runs could have possibly scored.
07-12-2007, 05:48 PM
It depends. If there is no change in pitcher then all runs scored after a "third out" error (or for that matter after any error or passed pall if there would have been three outs without such error) are unearned. This is also true for the team's ERA.
However, if there is a change in pitcher, the new pitcher is treated de novo. For example.
First batter reaches by error.
Next two batters strike out.
(New pitcher enters game)
Fourth batter homers
fifth batter strikes out.
The old pitcher is charged with no earned runs
The new pitcher is charged with one earned run -- the batter who homered. He would not have been charged with the inherited runner in any case.
The team as a whole is charged with no earned runs.
05-30-2012, 01:53 AM
This was 5 years ago but worth a shot for an answer.
What if First batter reaches on an error
Next guys walks
(New Pitcher enters)
Gets two first batters out (which should be the end of the inning now)
Next batter singles scores the guy who reached on an error
Next guys doubles scores the guy who walked and got the single.
Only one run earned to the new pitcher who came in? The first pitcher walked a guy, but the relief guy got two outs so is it non cause it should of been three outs to the first pitcher even though the relief guy got the 2 outs
05-30-2012, 05:19 AM
Moving this sports related question to the Game Room, which didn't exist when the thread started.
samclem, Moderator in General Questions
05-30-2012, 07:38 AM
Original pitcher charged with one earned, one unearned run. All runs charged to the reliever are earned, due to this rule:
From the Official Rules (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp)
10.16 Earned Runs And Runs Allowed
(i) When pitchers are changed during an inning, the relief pitcher shall not have the benefit of previous chances for outs not accepted in determining earned runs.
Barkis is Willin'
05-30-2012, 08:17 AM
Here are some examples from http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule10.shtml
(1) With two out, P1 walks A. B reaches base on an error. P2 relieves P1. C hits home run, scoring three runs. Charge two unearned runs to P1, one earned run to P2.
(2) With two out, P1 walks A and B and is relieved by P2. C reaches base on an error. D hits home run, scoring four runs. Charge two unearned runs to P1, two unearned runs to P2.
(3) With none out, P1 walks A. B reaches base on an error. P2 relieves P1. C hits home run, scoring three runs. D and E strike out. F reaches base on an error. G hits home run, scoring two runs. Charge two runs, one earned, to P1. Charge three runs, one earned, to P2.
I think example (3) is close enough to Redsoxpower's question that the answer given by anson2995 is correct.
05-30-2012, 10:08 AM
The basic simple rules are. For a pitcher reconstruct the inning removing all errors and passed balls that occurred while that pitcher or any subsequent pitcher was pitching. Give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher when deciding on base advancement.
For a relief pitcher who enters in the middle of an inning, start with the situation as it is when he enters the game and ignore all previous errors and passed balls.
Freddy the Pig
05-30-2012, 08:31 PM
Original pitcher charged with one earned, one unearned run.Not correct. Both runs are unearned. The "hypothetical out count" resets to the actual out count for the relief pitcher when the relief pitcher enters, but not for the starting pitcher.
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