Bigotry is Alive and Well in Idaho

[Monty]

Disclaimer: I did a search and didn't find a Pit thread on this already.

UNBELIEVABLE! (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-boisestate-johnson&prov=ap&type=lgns).

Well, I guess it really isn't unbelievable. It is incredibly sad, though. A man and a woman fall in love and decide to get married and what do they get for that? Yep, death threats.

I wonder if the bigots, who may not hail from Idaho after all, are aware that they're nowhere near a good a person as Johnson is. It's not like they would have a chance with Popadics anyway.

Well, I'm impressed by the way the happy couple's dealing with the situation. I also wish them much happiness in their marriage.

[BooBoo316]

Much happiness to the couple starting their new life together, may their marriage be a long and happy one. They both seem to have a good attitude about what will surely be an annoyance they will have to put up with from time to time. I'm slightly impressed that the response was relatively small, some phone calls and a handfull of letters. Not too long ago, it could have been much worse. Although, I couldn't help but get a "South Park" giggle that the cheerleader was named Popadics. She had to put up with a lot during school, I bet.

[Squink]

UNBELIEVABLE! (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=ap-boisestate-johnson&prov=ap&type=lgns).I think it's the heat. They're just generally going kind of crazy in Taterstan:
Vandals late Wednesday or early Thursday used a herbicide to etch a giant 60-foot phallus in the grassy slopes beneath the Idaho governor's mansion, a popular site for people to ride ice blocks down the lawn as temperatures in Boise reach 100 degrees. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003809239_webmansionvandals27.html)

[Bricker]

Well, sure. Miscegenation is roundly condemned in the Ten Commandments, but they don't say a word about murder.

[Spoke]

Well, sure. Miscegenation is roundly condemned in the Ten Commandments, but they don't say a word about murder.

:confused: What does religion have to do with this episode? I didn't see any indication of the bigotry being religion-based.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Although, I couldn't help but get a "South Park" giggle that the cheerleader was named Popadics. She had to put up with a lot during school, I bet.

And now her name will be Chrissy Popadics Johnson. Sheesh, she couldn't marry a Smith?

[E-Sabbath]

Jumping a broom is _african_? Huh. I always thought it was European (traditional).

[FilmGeek]

And now her name will be Chrissy Popadics Johnson. Sheesh, she couldn't marry a Smith?
Isn't Johnson the man's first name? I thought it was Johnson Popadics married Chrissy MaidenName...

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Jumping a broom is _african_? Huh. I always thought it was European (traditional).
It's both. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_broom) The practice of jumping the broom was largely discarded in Ghana after the decline and eventual fall of the Ashanti Confederacy in 1897 and the imposition of British customs. The practice did however survive in the Americas, especially in the United States, among slaves brought from the Asante area. This particularly Akan practice of jumping the broom was picked up by other African ethnic groups in the Americas and used to solidify marriages during slavery among their communities. Jumping the broom therefore did not arise out of slavery as some have suggested, but is a part of African culture that survived the American slavery like the Voodun religion of the Fon and Ewe ethnic groups or the ring shout ceremony of the BaKongo and Mbundu ethnic group.

[snip]

Jumping over a broom as part of a wedding ceremony was also common in pre-Christian European cultures. The custom survived the introduction of Christianity and was practiced by both blacks and whites in the American South prior to the Civil War.

Broom jumping is also practiced by non-Black groups and different religions around the world with some variation. Wiccans and Roma are among the groups who developed their own style of a broom jumping tradition. The Welsh also had a centuries-old custom called priodas coes ysgub, or "broom-stick wedding."

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Isn't Johnson the man's first name? I thought it was Johnson Popadics married Chrissy MaidenName...
Nope, Ian Johnson, Chrissie Popadics.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Jumping a broom is _african_? Huh. I always thought it was European (traditional).

Have you never seen the TV miniseries "Roots"? You should, it is epic.


I'm concentrating on this Popadics name far more than I should. Thank the stars she didn't marry a guy named Duvalier.

[phouka]

Hmmm. Well, the article is set in Boise, Idaho, I guess that's because the Johnsons live there. It didn't say that the phone calls or letters came specifically from Idaho, so I don't think it's fair to blame it all on the potato state.

And yes, it sucks big moss encrusted rocks. However, I'd just like to point out that 30 letters from a national population of 300 million gives us a complete racist asshat percentage of .00001. Besides which, don't people who send death threats through the USPS get an uncomfortable meeting with some unhappy postal inspectors?

[mhendo]

While bigotry is certainly alive and well, i'm not sure that the "Idaho" part of your thread title is necessarily justified.

This was not just a local story. Johnson proposed on-camera after a nationally-televised bowl game, and the proposal was replayed over and over on various national news and sports networks. There's no indication in the article that the threats came only from his local area.

ETA:

Damn you, phouka. [shakes fist]

[Contrapuntal]

I saw the picture in this article, (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20016348/) and had to read it to see which one of them was black.

[Sailboat]

I know a white couple who moved out to the midwest, openly claiming the reason was "to be among our own kind, because there are too many blacks and Mexicans moving into this area."

They went to Illinois, however. Land of Lincoln, ironically.

Sailboat

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

I saw the picture in this article, (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20016348/) and had to read it to see which one of them was black.

Well, it really shouldn't matter who is black or white, that's not important. What really matters is that someone is named Popadic, that's a true crime.

If I am pronouncing it correctly: pop'- a- dick

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

If I am pronouncing it correctly: pop'- a- dick

Actually, it's pronounced "throatwar...


Ah, man, I can't do it.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Actually, it's pronounced "throatwar...


Ah, man, I can't do it.


I , for one, am offended that you you would equate the esteemed Throatwarbler
Mangrove with such names as "Popadic" and "Johnson". I mean to say, sir, let's get real here.

[Spoke]

I , for one, am offended that you you would equate the esteemed ThroatwarblervMangrove with such names as "Popadic" and "Johnson". I mean to say, sir, let's get real here.

I believe you have misspelled "Raymond Luxury-Yacht." Cite (http://www.geocities.com/johangambolputy/mangrove.wav).

[Muffin]

Given the national coverage of the couple, and how the racists on the board that shall not be named have jumped all over it, I would expect that the threats are not just from local locos.

[E-Sabbath]

Hm. Brief research suggests that jumping the broom existed in both african _and_ pre-christian European cultures. I'd forgotten the Roots version.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Given the national coverage of the couple, and how the racists on the board that shall not be named have jumped all over it, I would expect that the threats are not just from local locos.


I have not been a member very long but I have read the boards since 2002. I cannot recall any member in good standing being racist and/or typing racist epithets. A lot may be assholes, myself included, but who are you accusing of being racist? I'm not including trolls and sock puppets here.

[Boyo Jim]

One thing I find most troubling about Madison, WI is how lily-white it is. And there are significant numbers of racists here in the "People's Republic of Madison". I had a coworker tell me he was moving out of the city because he was worried the city was getting too "dark". I asked him if he planned to move to Norway, which was the only place I could think of whiter than Madison. But there are apparently a number of suburbs even whiter than Madison.

The UW here gained some notoriety a few years back when they published a recruiting brochure with a picture of packed bleachers at a football game on the cover. They Photoshopped-in a picture of a black student to make the crowd look more diverse.

[Canadjun]

I have not been a member very long but I have read the boards since 2002. I cannot recall any member in good standing being racist and/or typing racist epithets. A lot may be assholes, myself included, but who are you accusing of being racist? I'm not including trolls and sock puppets here.
Note the reference was to "the board that shall not be named", not to SDMB.

Can someone give me any hints what that aforementioned board is? :confused:

[Boyo Jim]

I have not been a member very long but I have read the boards since 2002. I cannot recall any member in good standing being racist and/or typing racist epithets. A lot may be assholes, myself included, but who are you accusing of being racist? I'm not including trolls and sock puppets here.

How about GuyNblueJeans (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=426169&highlight=caucasian) ?
Here's another of his incomprehensible pleasantries. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=424062)

[Omega Glory]

The UW here gained some notoriety a few years back when they published a recruiting brochure with a picture of packed bleachers at a football game on the cover. They Photoshopped-in a picture of a black student to make the crowd look more diverse.
So they added one person for crowd diversity? That's hilarious.

The story in the OP is too bad, but I can't say I"m surprised.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Note the reference was to "the board that shall not be named", not to SDMB.

Can someone give me any hints what that aforementioned board is? :confused:


Oooh, oops. I read it differently, as in "those on the board that shall not be named". I do apologize for that mistake. Man, I keep apologizing a lot here.

[Northern Piper]

at a guess, stormfront . org

[Boyo Jim]

So they added one person for crowd diversity? That's hilarious.

The story in the OP is too bad, but I can't say I"m surprised.

Well, it would have looked too obvious if they pasted in the same black student a bunch of times. :p

[monstro]

I have not been a member very long but I have read the boards since 2002. I cannot recall any member in good standing being racist and/or typing racist epithets. A lot may be assholes, myself included, but who are you accusing of being racist? I'm not including trolls and sock puppets here.

There have been some racist assholes posting on the board. I know one is still an occassional poster. No, I'm not going to name names. But don't fool yourself into thinking the board only extends membership to enlightened posters. It doesn't.

But Canadjun beat me to the rest of what I was gonna say.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

There have been some racist assholes posting on the board. I know one is still an occassional poster. No, I'm not going to name names. But don't fool yourself into thinking the board only extends membership to enlightened posters. It doesn't.

But Canadjun beat me to the rest of what I was gonna say.


Why won't you name names? If somone is blatantly racist it should be incumbent upon you to call them out. Why should you protect them from rapprochment or give them any due? I'm not one to give someone a pass for being racist or homophobic just beacause they are literate. Call them out.

[Boyo Jim]

Why won't you name names? If somone is blatantly racist it should be incumbent upon you to call them out. Why should you protect them from rapprochment or give them any due? I'm not one to give someone a pass for being racist or homophobic just beacause they are literate. Call them out.

See post #25.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

See post #25.

Wow, he equates Rupert Murdoch and Satan with Ted Koppell? Come on, everyone knows Koppell is a good guy and would never be in league with those evil bastards. I couldn't get through the rest of the thread, sorry.

[Boyo Jim]

Wow, he equates Rupert Murdoch and Satan with Ted Koppell? Come on, everyone knows Koppell is a good guy and would never be in league with those evil bastards. I couldn't get through the rest of the thread, sorry.

Try and struggle through this single post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8712883&postcount=37) without choking on your own vomit, or perhaps laughing yourself to death.

This Guy is still a member in good standing.

There are others, but they are not of the frothing at the mouth type. They are harder to pin down. You get a sense of it more from their tone than any explicit statements.

[Abby_Emma_Sasha]

Try and struggle through this single post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8712883&postcount=37) without choking on your own vomit, or perhaps laughing yourself to death.

This Guy is still a member in good standing.

There are others, but they are not of the frothing at the mouth type. They are harder to pin down. You get a sense of it more from their tone than any explicit statements.


Yeah, as much as I loathe Oprah and her holier than thou attitude, errr what?
Uh, I meant to say that guy in the dungarees is pretty near getting banned. Because his shit is offensive? No. Because many people here will get tired of the crap and he will lose it and go haywire.

[Muffin]

Why won't you name names? If somone is blatantly racist it should be incumbent upon you to call them out. Why should you protect them from rapprochment or give them any due? I'm not one to give someone a pass for being racist or homophobic just beacause they are literate. Call them out.
Two reasons: first, I do not wish to give them any more publicity than they already have, for as you are aware, any press is good press; second: I do not wish to foment a board war by calling them out and over to the SDMB, for rather than working toward changing their attitudes, that would simply bog down our boards -- it is one thing to go over there and take a stand until banned from there, but it is quite another to then have them follow back here and derail a great many threads by turning innocuous threads into battles over racism.

Northern Piper has named the group. If you google about on the newlyweds' names, you will find a popular blog that has already had to shut down its comments feature due to that group invading it, and which links to the racist group.

[Muffin]

This Guy is still a member in good standing.
I am under the impression that just over a month ago he was suspended for 30 days, and has not posted since. I expect that if he returns and continues on where he left off, he will not be long for these boards.

[Boyo Jim]

I am under the impression that just over a month ago he was suspended for 30 days, and has not posted since. I expect that if he returns and continues on where he left off, he will not be long for these boards.

That may be, I haven't heard it. He shows as being a member, tho, and if his suspension has passed, that would mean he's still in "good standing". He's the best example I can think of as a racist tolerated as a member. Which is ok, every fruitcake is entitled to their bizarro-world view.

[betenoir]

Well I'm ompossed to it. I don't think cheerleader should be allowed to reproduse

This must be stopped! But if they agree to only have children without the flippy haircut, than maybe.

Sorry about the bad spelling. I come from a long line of white people. Maybe we need some new genes.

I wish the best for them. They look like they'll have the most beautiful children. I can't beive there are are people who still think like that.

[Cat Whisperer]

We don't like Idaho. Does that make us Statist?

(Couldn't care less about who marries whom.)

[Muffin]

Actually, I've been trying to trade Idaho for PEI for years. The combination of wild water and hot springs in Idaho is terrific:
http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/LochsaRiver.html
http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/MiddleForkPayetteRiver.html
http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/PayetteLake.html
http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/SouthForkBoisieRiver.html

Now if we could only find someone to marry Anne of Green Gables.

[Boyo Jim]

...Now if we could only find someone to marry Anne of Green Gables.

My first thought is Clark Gable, my second thought is Carrot Top.

[Wee Bairn]

Is there any proof of these threats and letters? Usually the FBI investigates things like this, but no mention of it in the article. Any chance the guy is exaggerating a bit to get attention? Someone makes a crack at the general store and it turns into a death threat perhaps? I mean his 15 minutes of fame are long over- the bowl game was in January. Seriously.

As for Guy being racist- at least he's honest- ten of thousands of members, and you can single out one who may be racist?

[Trunk]

While bigotry is certainly alive and well, i'm not sure that the "Idaho" part of your thread title is necessarily justified.
It is the home of Edgar J. Steele, and Mark Fuhrman.

It's not the first state that comes to mind when I hear the word "tolerant".

[pizzabrat]

As for Guy being racist- at least he's honest- ten of thousands of members, and you can single out one who may be racist?What do yo want, this to be the "out the racists" thread? What would be the point? There are a few who are quite vocal about their textbook racist beliefs who participate in most threads that involve race in some way. But use would official labeling of their beliefs be?

[Wee Bairn]

What do yo want, this to be the "out the racists" thread? What would be the point? There are a few who are quite vocal about their textbook racist beliefs who participate in most threads that involve race in some way. But use would official labeling of their beliefs be?

Not at all, I'm saying odds are there are hundreds of members who are racist or borderline racist, and Guy is just the only one who seems to be honest about it. Jus' sayin.

[Jackmannii]

As they drove away in a stretch limousine, Johnson kissed his new wife and said, "Let's play ball," the Idaho Statesman reported.Is it true that when leaving on his honeymoon, Ernie Banks said "Let's play two"?

[Spoke]

While bigotry is certainly alive and well, i'm not sure that the "Idaho" part of your thread title is necessarily justified.

I dunno. Idaho has a history of being a magnet for white supremacists (http://www.adl.org/tycoons/The_Move.asp). From a 1995 article: (http://www.albionmonitor.com/10-30-95/whitesupremacy.html)

The Aryan Nations in Idaho has been one of the umbrella organizations seeking to unite various Klan and neo-Nazi groups. Members spread across the country attend annual celebrations of Hitler's birthday at the Idaho encampment in April. In 1979, founder Richard Butler convened the first Aryan Nations World Congress on his property and attracted Klan and neo-Nazi leaders from the U.S., Canada and Europe, who gathered to exchange ideas and strategies. This annual summer event has led to greater cooperation among a wide variety of groups.

The Aryan Nations group has since been devastated by a hefty lawsuit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340524/) but I imagine there are still enough of these idiots in Idaho to explain the death threats.

[H3Knuckles]

Note the reference was to "the board that shall not be named", not to SDMB.

Can someone give me any hints what that aforementioned board is? :confused:

Heh, I guess I misread it. I also thought they were saying that there are racist dopers, because I had read it as "...racists on the board, who shall not be named, ..."

Makes a lot more sense now, thanks.

[mhendo]

It is the home of Edgar J. Steele, and Mark Fuhrman.

It's not the first state that comes to mind when I hear the word "tolerant".Sure, but the issue is whether the threats in this particular case actually came from Idaho. This was a nationally-covered proposal of marriage, so bigots from anywhere could be to blame.

[Bricker]

:confused: What does religion have to do with this episode? I didn't see any indication of the bigotry being religion-based.

I must have been smoking something potent.

I thought I had read something that indicated the protests arose from a religious group, but in re-reading it it seems that my brain inserted that notion of its own accord.

So, in the words of Emily Litella, "Never mind!"

[Fiveyearlurker]

While I agree that it is likely, there was nothing in that article that the death threats were coming from whites objecting to a white woman marrying a black man rather than objections coming from blacks objecting to a black man marrying a white woman. Or a combination of both.

Again, I've only read that one short linked article, so I may be off base. And, again, I agree that it's the more likely scenario. Just not the certain one.

[stretch]

While I agree that it is likely, there was nothing in that article that the death threats were coming from whites objecting to a white woman marrying a black man rather than objections coming from blacks objecting to a black man marrying a white woman. Or a combination of both.

Again, I've only read that one short linked article, so I may be off base. And, again, I agree that it's the more likely scenario. Just not the certain one.Are you suggesting that the people making these threats aren't bigots if they are black objecting to the white girls taking one of their fabulous black brothers? Because bigotry doesn't belong to just us white folks.

[Renob]

I dunno. Idaho has a history of being a magnet for white supremacists (http://www.adl.org/tycoons/The_Move.asp). From a 1995 article: (http://www.albionmonitor.com/10-30-95/whitesupremacy.html)
Please give us any indication that the vast majority of the people who lived there welcomed these nutjobs.

The Aryan Nations group has since been devastated by a hefty lawsuit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340524/) but I imagine there are still enough of these idiots in Idaho to explain the death threats.
So because the state may have a handful of nutjobs in it, the entire state deserves condemnation? Interesting logic.

It's not the first state that comes to mind when I hear the word "tolerant".
I've lived in both Idaho and Maryland. I found much less racism in Idaho than I do in Maryland.

[Don't Call Me Shirley]

Can someone contact me privately and tell me what the "board that shall not be named" is? I've seen it referenced several times but I have no idea what it is.

[Spoke]

Please give us any indication that the vast majority of the people who lived there welcomed these nutjobs.

Where did I say that they had been welcomed? I'm sure the majority of Idahoans don't agree with the racists at all. (In fact, the last article I linked talked about how many Idahoans are disgusted by these groups.) But it only takes a few crackpots to send death threats, and there is certainly some evidence that Idaho has its share of racist crackpots.

Ergo, bigotry is alive and well in Idaho. Even if it's only being practiced by a crackpot minority.


So because the state may have a handful of nutjobs in it, the entire state deserves condemnation? Interesting logic.

Nope. Where did I say that? Oh, that's right; I didn't.


I've lived in both Idaho and Maryland. I found much less racism in Idaho than I do in Maryland.

Interesting anecdote. It hardly negates the documented presence of Aryan Nations nutjobs in Idaho.

Hey, I love Idaho. I saw a lot of beautiful scenery and met some friendly folks the times I've visited. But Idaho clearly has its share of racist whack jobs.

[Renob]

Where did I say that they had been welcomed? I'm sure the majority of Idahoans don't agree with the racists at all. (In fact, the last article I linked talked about how many Idahoans are disgusted by these groups.) But it only takes a few crackpots to send death threats, and there is certainly some evidence that Idaho has its share of racist crackpots.

Ergo, bigotry is alive and well in Idaho. Even if it's only being practiced by a crackpot minority.
I'll give you that. But why single out Idaho, since I'm sure every state has "its share of racist crackpots"?

Interesting anecdote. It hardly negates the documented presence of Aryan Nations nutjobs in Idaho.
Again, why single out Idaho? Every state has a documented presence of racist nutjobs. Is there any indication the death threats are coming from Idahoans, which then might make your comments a little more reasonable?

[Spoke]

Again, why single out Idaho? Every state has a documented presence of racist nutjobs. Is there any indication the death threats are coming from Idahoans, which then might make your comments a little more reasonable?

I haven't heard diddly about this proposal since a couple of days after the bowl game ended. So I am assuming that since that time it has only been a local story, and thus would have incited the local racists.

[Spoke]

I should also add:

Not every state holds a racism jamboree, as Idaho seems to.

Also, Georgia, to take but one example, is crawling with interracial couples. I can't imagine any racist from here getting worked up enough about an interracial marriage in Idaho to send a death threat, when there are so many more examples of interracial marriage close at hand.

In Idaho, I'd imagine interracial marriage is less commonly seen, and therefore more likely to rankle the local bigots.

[Fiveyearlurker]

Are you suggesting that the people making these threats aren't bigots if they are black objecting to the white girls taking one of their fabulous black brothers? Because bigotry doesn't belong to just us white folks.

No, I'm suggesting that it's interesting that it seems that most people here assumed which way the bigotry was going on no information. As a white guy whose non-white in-law family boycotted our wedding on racial grounds, I know all too well that it goes both ways.

[pizzabrat]

No, I'm suggesting that it's interesting that it seems that most people here assumed which way the bigotry was going on no information.Okay...where'd you get that impression? As a white guy whose non-white in-law family boycotted our wedding on racial grounds, I know all too well that it goes both ways.What do you mean "both"? Both refers to two subjects only. This story was about a black and white couple. If you're talking about about a different configuration that's not an example of it going "both" ways.

[Renob]

Not every state holds a racism jamboree, as Idaho seems to.
"Idaho" holds a "racism jamboree." Really? When I lived there, and this event happened, I seem to have missed the fact that it was sponsored by Idaho and went on with the blessing and support of the people of the state. Maybe all those protestors who gathered at the same time, denouncing the racists and outnumbering them may have obscured my view of the sign that said "This racist jamboree sponsored by the state of Idaho."

Also, Georgia, to take but one example, is crawling with interracial couples. I can't imagine any racist from here getting worked up enough about an interracial marriage in Idaho to send a death threat, when there are so many more examples of interracial marriage close at hand.
So because there are a lot of interracial couples in Georgia, then racists from that state aren't infuriated by a high-profile interracial proposal on national TV?

In Idaho, I'd imagine interracial marriage is less commonly seen, and therefore more likely to rankle the local bigots.
So racists in Georgia aren't rankled up by interracial marriage since it's so common, but racists in Idaho hate it because it's supposedly uncommon? That's an interesting view of the racist mind.

I haven't heard diddly about this proposal since a couple of days after the bowl game ended. So I am assuming that since that time it has only been a local story, and thus would have incited the local racists.
That's a pretty weak assumption. Please find me any evidence to back up the notion that Idahoans are the ones making the threats. Yes, you assume it based on your stereotypical view of Idahoans, but I'd prefer to deal with facts, not your unfounded opinions.

[Fiveyearlurker]

Okay...where'd you get that impression?

Well, along with the discussion of GuynBluejeans, we have quite a few posters pointing out how racist whites in Idaho are:

I dunno. Idaho has a history of being a magnet for white supremacists (http://www.adl.org/tycoons/The_Move.asp).



The Aryan Nations group has since been devastated by a hefty lawsuit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340524/) but I imagine there are still enough of these idiots in Idaho to explain the death threats.

It is the home of Edgar J. Steele, and Mark Fuhrman.

It's not the first state that comes to mind when I hear the word "tolerant".


I had a coworker tell me he was moving out of the city because he was worried the city was getting too "dark".

and references to stormfront.

I venture to guess that most people were assuming that was the direction of the racism. I was merely pointing out that there was no indication in that linked article that this was the situation.

[Spoke]

"Idaho" holds a "racism jamboree." Really? When I lived there, and this event happened, I seem to have missed the fact that it was sponsored by Idaho and went on with the blessing and support of the people of the state.

No; I didn't mean to imply that the state sponsored it. But Idaho is the location, so there is obviously a network of racists in the state. How extensive the network may be, I don't know.


So racists in Georgia aren't rankled up by interracial marriage since it's so common, but racists in Idaho hate it because it's supposedly uncommon? That's an interesting view of the racist mind.

And yet that's about the size of it. Georgia racists may hate the idea of interracial marriage, but I think at this point they're pretty well resigned to it as a fact of life. I don't think it's reached that level of saturation in Idaho. (At least not from what I saw when I was there. It seemed like a pretty lily-white place.) So a racist Idahoan may not be as inured to the phenomenon as a racist Georgian.


That's a pretty weak assumption. Please find me any evidence to back up the notion that Idahoans are the ones making the threats. Yes, you assume it based on your stereotypical view of Idahoans, but I'd prefer to deal with facts, not your unfounded opinions.

"Stereotyping" doesn't have anything to do with it. It's an established fact that there is a network of supremacists in Idaho. Clearly, that is an uncomfortable fact for you, and one you'd rather not face.

Idahoans are no better or worse than the citizens of any other state. They have racists, too, same as everybody else. I know it would be easier for you to believe that the racism came from elsewhere, but I see no reason to think it's not home-grown.

[Renob]

No; I didn't mean to imply that the state sponsored it. But Idaho is the location, so there is obviously a network of racists in the state. How extensive the network may be, I don't know.
Perhaps, then, you should do a little research before trying to paint Idaho as some sort of racist haven. Does the Aryan Nations even exist there anymore? Do the leaders of it live in the state? How many hate groups are active in Idaho as opposed to, say, Georgia (Georgia has 44, Idaho has 7 (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp))?

"Stereotyping" doesn't have anything to do with it. It's an established fact that there is a network of supremacists in Idaho. Clearly, that is an uncomfortable fact for you, and one you'd rather not face.
No, I know it well. I also know that the actions of a handful of people lead others, like yourself, to think that Idaho is somehow different from other states in this regard.

Idahoans are no better or worse than the citizens of any other state.
Why, then, did you single out Idaho for condemnation in this incident? You assume because the person receiving threats is based in Idaho that the threats must then come from Idaho? Again, please tell me why this is a logical assumption to make.

They have racists, too, same as everybody else. I know it would be easier for you to believe that the racism came from elsewhere, but I see no reason to think it's not home-grown.
I'm sure some threats probably came from within the state. However, I think to assume that because in the past Idaho has had a small group of racists active in it this means that the threats came primarily from within the state is ridiculous. There is no evidence to suggest that the threats are primarily from Idahoans. Maybe if you had some facts to present, instead of dealing in stereotypes (which is clearly what you are doing), then you'd be on more solid ground.

[begbert2]

Whee! I must be racist! Whoopee! :cool:

And everyone in New York is rude, and everyone in California is gay, and everyone in Texas has an inflated ego, and everyone in Florida is old...

[Omega Glory]

Oh, go screw yourself begbert2.

[Spoke]

Perhaps, then, you should do a little research before trying to paint Idaho as some sort of racist haven. Does the Aryan Nations even exist there anymore? Do the leaders of it live in the state? How many hate groups are active in Idaho as opposed to, say, Georgia (Georgia has 44, Idaho has 7 (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp))?

First of all, your defensiveness is showing. Why is the number of hate groups in Georgia relevant? The question on the table is not which state has the most racists, but whether Idaho has home-grown racists, of the sort that might be expected to send death threats to a local interracial couple. The answer to that question is clearly "Yes."

So there's no reason to believe the threats must have come from out of state.

But since (in your defensiveness) you want to get into a Georgia vs. Idaho argument, I'll raise a couple of points:

First, Georgia has more than three times the population of Idaho. Moreover, black Georgians comprise 30% of its population. (And a similar percentage of its hate groups, judging from the cite you linked. 10 of the groups were black separatists.)

Black Idahoans comprise 0.6% of that state's population. (0.6% !) Ask yourself why a state with a black population of only 0.6% would have even 7 white supremacist groups.

I note that the cite you linked doesn't give the membership numbers of these groups. So for all we know, it could just tell us that Georgia's racists are more splintered. For all we know, half of the population of Idaho could belong to one of its seven hate groups. (For the record, I don't believe that's the case.)


No, I know it well. I also know that the actions of a handful of people lead others, like yourself, to think that Idaho is somehow different from other states in this regard.

I haven't said Idaho is different. To the contrary, you and its other defenders are the ones implicitly arguing for Idahoan exceptionalism, to the extent you and they are reluctant to accept that the hate mail could have come from within the state.


Why, then, did you single out Idaho for condemnation in this incident?

You must have me confused with the OP.

You assume because the person receiving threats is based in Idaho that the threats must then come from Idaho? Again, please tell me why this is a logical assumption to make.

I already did:

1. This wedding has been nothing but a local news story since bowl season. Makes sense to assume people reading about it in local newspapers or hearing about it on local TV news were the ones who sent the letters.

2. We have established that Idaho is not racist-free, to put it mildly.

3. Hard to imagine a non-local racist getting worked up enough to send death threats to an Idaho couple.


I'm sure some threats probably came from within the state.

That's hardly a bold assumption.

Maybe if you had some facts to present, instead of dealing in stereotypes (which is clearly what you are doing), then you'd be on more solid ground.

I have done nothing but present facts. And far from stereotyping Idahoans, I have simply said they are subject to the same foibles as the residents of every other state, including racism.

[Vinyl Turnip]

Oh, go screw yourself begbert2.

Apparently everyone in Idaho has a long and extremely pliable penis, too.

[Renob]

First of all, your defensiveness is showing.
Sure it is. When people like yourself think that Idaho is some haven for racists, I get a little defensive since I know that's not true.

Why is the number of hate groups in Georgia relevant?
Because you supported your contention that the bulk of this hate mail was from Idaho by mentioning the fact that you knew about one hate group that was located there. Since you are saying that Idaho has a network of racists based on your knowledge of the Aryan Nations (which, incidently, moved out of state six years ago), I thought it might be relevant to look at the number of hate groups in your state, too. It seems that you have a far higher number. So if you were to stereotype a state based on the presence of hate groups (which is what you did with Idaho), it seems that Georgia is in a much worse position.

The question on the table is not which state has the most racists, but whether Idaho has home-grown racists, of the sort that might be expected to send death threats to a local interracial couple. The answer to that question is clearly "Yes."
Sure it does. But it doesn't follow that the bulk of the threats were from Idaho as you seem to contend. They could be, sure, but to say that without some sort of facts (aside from the knowledge that the Aryan Nations used to operate there) is assuming too much.

So there's no reason to believe the threats must have come from out of state.
No, just as there is no reason to believe the threats came mainly from within the state.

But since (in your defensiveness) you want to get into a Georgia vs. Idaho argument, I'll raise a couple of points:

First, Georgia has more than three times the population of Idaho.
And over six times as many racist groups operating within it.

Moreover, black Georgians comprise 30% of its population. (And a similar percentage of its hate groups, judging from the cite you linked. 10 of the groups were black separatists.)

Black Idahoans comprise 0.6% of that state's population. (0.6% !) Ask yourself why a state with a black population of only 0.6% would have even 7 white supremacist groups.
White supremacists hate more than blacks, you know. Mexicans, Indians, even southern Europeans come in for hatred from them. They are quite creative with the type of folks they blame for the ills of the world. Jews were a big issue for the Aryan Nations folks (not that Idaho had a lot of Jewish folks, either).

That's somewhat irrelevant, though, since racists don't need to live among minorities to hate them.

I haven't said Idaho is different. To the contrary, you and its other defenders are the ones implicitly arguing for Idahoan exceptionalism, to the extent you and they are reluctant to accept that the hate mail could have come from within the state.
No, I am sure there were some folks within Idaho making threats. However, trying to say that they are solely or mainly from Idaho isn't supported by any facts you have produced. It could very well turn out that these threats came almost solely from within Idaho, but it's pretty insulting to assume that.

1. This wedding has been nothing but a local news story since bowl season. Makes sense to assume people reading about it in local newspapers or hearing about it on local TV news were the ones who sent the letters.
Sure, because racists aren't known to use the Internet to trade information. :rolleyes:

2. We have established that Idaho is not racist-free, to put it mildly.
Yes, seven whole hate groups. So what? There are racists there, just as any other state. Again, you label Idaho as having a network of racists from old news reports about one highly visible group. Since you like to tar the reputation of a state based on racist groups, I'd say Georgia is much less "racist free" than Idaho.

And, as this news story (http://www.lineofduty.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=89189) points out, Idaho seems to be doing pretty well in terms of interracial marriage: "Idaho was one of five states with the largest proportion of white and multiple-race couples in the country."

3. Hard to imagine a non-local racist getting worked up enough to send death threats to an Idaho couple.
Why? I didn't realize that racists kept their hatred of others confined to their neighbors. As you pointed out, Idaho isn't known for having a large minority population. Obviously the racists there get worked up about minorities living elsewhere. It stands to reason that racists from, say, Georgia would get worked up about a high-profile interracial marriage. I seem to recall they used to lynch folks for that kind of stuff in Georgia in the not-so-distant past. Idaho, on the other hand, doesn't have a history of stringing up black men for saying "inappropriate" things to white women.

[Spoke]

...stereotype...

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Where did I stereotype Idaho?

[Renob]

There is a stereotype of Idaho as being a haven for racists. You, based on one now-defunct racist group operating there, contend that Idahoans sent the threats and disagree with those who say that perhaps they were from other parts of the country. You are making assumptions based on a stereotype of the state which isn't true.

[Spoke]

No, I was pointing out that Idaho is not racist-free, after some posters had expressed doubt that the hate mail originated in Idaho.

Your defensiveness is really tiresome. Are all Idahoans like that?

[Renob]

No, I was pointing out that Idaho is not racist-free, after some posters had expressed doubt that the hate mail originated in Idaho.
No, people were saying that blaming all this on Idaho wasn't justified. You, however, sought to justify it. I then attempted to illustrate that your attitude about Idaho being a haven for racists (or more of a haven than any other state) was wrong.

Your defensiveness is really tiresome.
Why, because I called you on the fact that you don't know what you're talking about?

Are all Idahoans like that?
No, most would let this type of lazy thinking go unchallenged. However, that's not why I'm a member here. Fighting ignorance and all that.

[Spoke]

Well, there's an interesting discussion (among Idahoans) of racism in Idaho over here (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/hbo/archive.asp?postID=16514). One of the posters to that blog pointed out some interesting stats:

Our incidents of hate crime per 100,000 minority population are 67% higher than Washington and 82% higher than California.

Is it stereotyping to point that out? Because I'm still not sure how you're using the word.

[Renob]

Well, there's an interesting discussion (among Idahoans) of racism in Idaho over here (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/hbo/archive.asp?postID=16514). One of the posters to that blog pointed out some interesting stats:
Ah, finally, some facts.

Is it stereotyping to point that out? Because I'm still not sure how you're using the word.
No, as long as you don't try to smear the reputation of the state based on the actions of a few.

[raindog]

Well, sure. Miscegenation is roundly condemned in the Ten Commandments, but they don't say a word about murder.
You're whooshing us, right?

[Tinkertoy]

Apparently everyone in Idaho has a long and extremely pliable penis, too.

Not me I'm a girl.

Georgia racists may hate the idea of interracial marriage, but I think at this point they're pretty well resigned to it as a fact of life. I don't think it's reached that level of saturation in Idaho. (At least not from what I saw when I was there. It seemed like a pretty lily-white place.)

The 40% percent of my town that is Hispanic and very intermingled with the white, Native American, Asian and black population would disagree. As would the lovely black woman my white nephew is married to.