Handicapped parking permits

[C K Dexter Haven]

In theory, if you don't display the sticker or card or whatever, you get ticketed for parking there.

Even if the guy in your example did get off in the end without a fine, he had to go to the court, waste most of a day to plead his case, etc. That's probably as effective as a fine, in terms of teaching him a lesson. Not as effective as a fine in terms of helping pay for the court system, of course.

You could always travel with a can of spray paint, and when you see a car in a handicapped space with no visible sticker, you could paint on the side of the car, "ARE YOU REALLY HANDICAPPED?" ... Tempting, always tempting.

[TVeblen]

I agree, Trumpy, those special permits are a privilige and "forgetting them" is not an excuse. IMO, those who fail to display them shouild be stuck w/ the fine. It may be an incentive remember the next time!

That said, I must (well, not really, but I will anyway) add a few caveats:

The DMV is sometimes remarkably dense about matching the permit display to the person. Case in point, a furious demand to me to have a car towed because it was parked in a handicapped space w/o a proper permit.

Turns out it belonged to a very old lady who yeah, had a card for the dash but the way the car was parked (hood into a clump of bushes), the card couldn't be seen. She was driving a land yacht and just wasn't spry enough to prop the card onto the rear window.

She was fussed and mortified and confused and everyone involved felt like chopped dog shit. In this the permit just didn't match the mobility of the person. Having a poor old lady in tears, embarrassed and confused, wasn't what anyone wanted. But that's the way it shook down.

Sorry, this probably adds more mud to the waters than clarity, but I thought my bad experience could be of use.

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I have no problem with deserving people having handicapped parking permits or special parking spaces, (you know what's coming now) BUT, if you have a permit to park in a handicapped space, DISPLAY IT!! Either have a special license plate, sticker, or placard for the dash. You have been given this privilege, so USE IT!! If you don't, you should be ticketed!! And don't give me that "I forgot it" crap. I know of one person who constantly "forgot" to display his card on the dashboard, got ticketed, and went crying to the traffic court judge, and, of course, got off with it. YOU ARE WASTING THE COURT'S TIME!! I think a few fines directed at repeat offenders would solve this problem.

[Gr8Kat]

Turns out it belonged to a very old lady who yeah, had a card for the dash but the way the car was parked (hood into a clump of bushes), the card couldn't be seen. She was driving a land yacht and just wasn't spry enough to prop the card onto the rear window.

I don't know how it is in other states, but when Oregon used the dashboard placards, they were required to be placed in the front window. Parking patrol was supposed to either look for the reflection of the card in the windshield or get off their butts and go around to the front of the car to doublecheck. Now we use the kind that hang down from the rearview mirror.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

[Nickrz]

In my younger days, I used to avail myself of handicapped spots. One day as I got out of the car, a self-propelled old man in a wheelchair drove up and said "You don't look too handicapped - try this!" And that sumbitch whacked me with his cane, right on the knee so hard I almost fell down.
That was funny as hell. I never did that again.

[Akatsukami]

I must point that, although I might qualify for a handicapped permit (the local version is a tag that hangs from the rear-view mirror), I have told my wife, whenever she nags me to get one, "God forbid I should be confused with your mother".


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"Kings die, and leave their crowns to their sons. Shmuel HaKatan took all the treasures in the world, and went away."

[Gr8Kat]

One day as I got out of the car, a self-propelled old man in a wheelchair drove up and said "You don't look too handicapped - try this!" And that sumbitch whacked me with his cane, right on the knee so hard I almost fell down.

LOL! I love it :) I'm going to have to remember that move; probably more effective than a dirty look ;)

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

[Gr8Kat]

Funny thing -- almost exactly the same thing happened to me. Not such an old man, either. He swung at me with his cane and connected quite solidly with my left leg below the knee, but to no effect, because I pretty much can't feel anything in that leg from my knee to my foot.

Well, 2 points:

1.) I wouldn't actually assault anyone, I don't have the guts and would probably feel guilty afterwards. I know it's wrong, but then so is parking illegally. Which brings me to point two:

2.) Are you disabled? It sounds like you are since you describe a leg that can't feel anything, so why was the guy in the wheelchair mad at you? Weren't you displaying a placard?

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

[pricciar]

I always feel the need to key up a car when it doesn't have a placard, or when the guy in the car looks like he isn't disabled.
Then I remember there is a pretty good chance that the guy or woman, has some kind of ailment that isn't very easy to spot, so I just take a deep breath, and assume the best.

pat

[Diane]

I got a good laugh over the incident with the old guy and the cane.

I witnessed something a little different. My cousin had just gone through 2 years of extensive and brutal treatment for non-Hodgkinsons lymphoma.

She called me one weekend and told me that she was having one of her "good days" and asked if I wanted to escape with her for a while. She was unable to walk far without her wheelchair, but she was pretty determined not to use it if she didn’t have to. We parked in the handicapped stall at Target so she would be able to walk the short distance to the photo area at the front of the store to pick up pictures. Usually, although she had a handicapped plate, she would not use the stalls and instead use her wheelchair to get through the parking lot. She always said that someone probably needed them more than her.

Afterward, we were still sitting in her van with the doors open (it took her a minute to get adjusted in her seat) when some jackass walked by and made a rude comment to his wife that he thought it was despicable that those two girls were using someone else’s tags to be lazy. Although she was very sick at the time, the doctors had giving her weeks to live (she suckered them out and is now healthy, save the damaging effects of the treatment, 6 years later), at first glance you wouldn’t guess she was a bad as she actually was. She had an expensive, custom-made wig that was very realistic. A few years before she got sick, she worked as a model, so she had the makeup and know-how to not only cover the black circles under her eyes but to make her sunken face look almost healthy.

This slobs comments really hurt my cousins feelings and I got pissed. I went into the store again and saw that they were at Taco Bell ordering food. I got my cousin and together we walked up to the guy and his wife (my cousin is in tears). She didn’t say anything, just lifted her wig enough for him to see her bald head, pulled the collar of her shirt down enough for him to see the tube that was implanted in her chest (for chemo), and then lowered the side of her shorts enough for him to see the huge hip scar from the surgery that removed a large tumor from her groin.

The look on this guys face was priceless. I have never seen anyone become so humbled in such a short time. He apologized over and over and over again. Hopefully, he is a lot less judgmental these days.



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>^,,^<
KITTEN
Coffee, chocolate, men . . . Some things are just better rich.

[handy]

It's called a placard.

Just cause they forget it is no reason to have a fit, severely able people forget things too!...If you want to know if the person is handicapped, why don't you just take a look at them?

[TVeblen]

Handy, please read Diane's post above. It isn't always obvious that someone is disabled. A similar thing happened with a friend who has a very severe heart condition. He is strictly limited as to how much walking he can do.

We were getting out of the car when someone challenged him on his right to a handicapped space. It was awful. Instead of a good evening, good food and good vibes, he had to document his illness to a total stranger. So much for getting away from it all.

I didn't say that as a personal slam. To my shame, I hadn't thought much about it until it happened to a friend, right in front of me.

IMO, the handicapped permit is a privilige. So is driving, but if you're picked up without your license along, you get ticketed. In fairness, I don't know if the ticket is "cancelled" if you can prove you just forgot it, though. Does anyone know? If so, I will have to rethink my position.

Yeah, that's a real 'knee-slapper', that is! Funny thing -- almost exactly the same thing happened to me. Not such an old man, either. He swung at me with his cane and connected quite solidly with my left leg below the knee, but to no effect, because I pretty much can't feel anything in that leg from my knee to my foot. So I just smiled, wrung the cane out of his hands, then jammed it in the spokes of his chair and gave it a few good kicks in place (with my good ol' right leg) to be sure it would stick. By this time more than a few witnesses had stopped, so I added for their benefit that if he was still there when I got back from my business, I'd demonstrate that the law doesn't discriminate against the handicapped when it comes to third-degree assault . . . He wasn't.

[Kat]

The ticket for forgetting your placard? I expect so. My mother has one--currently a hanging card, but a few years ago she had the type that you put in the front window. She had hers displayed once, but my little sister knocked it down when she went back to the car for something. The car was ticketed, but my mom got the ticket cancelled when she showed up with the handicapped card.

Gr8Kat: I think of myself as being 'impaired' more than 'disabled' or 'handicapped'. Just a personal quibble. I can walk, just not very far. I try to get by without actually using a cane, but after the episode with the doof in the wheelchair, I realized it was really a great excuse to carry a club, so I keep two in the backseat of my car -- a nice, heavy rosewood one and a really nifty one that I got from the Edge Company with a hammer-shaped head and 34 inches of 'gleaming 440 stainless steel'.

Diane, I'd say I feel for your cousin, but the phrase has become so trite these days, I'll just say I sympathize. I had a friend/co-worker once who was a cancer survivor, but this lady would never back down if someone confronted her about using a space, although she was a tiny thing and would probably make you think she was anorexic -- we all would, if we'd had most of our intestines removed like her.

The only time I ever got 'foamed up' was when I was trying to park in a shopping center, and as I pulled up, I saw a woman in full 'sweats' almost literally bounce out of her car and lope across the sidewalk and into a 'fitness center', where she fell right in with the rest of her aerobics class.

Realizing what I was possibly setting myself up for, I parked my car so as to block hers in, found a pay phone, summoned a cop, and had him pull her out of the class (in full view of the others) and have her produce the copy of the form which authorizes the use of a placard, which (in Kentucky, at least) is also required to be carried in the car. Turns out the placard was for her husband. This used to be a $50 ticket -- now it's over $100 (don't know if it's been changed since, this was several years ago). The real payoff, though, is that it turned out the cop had a handicapped relative who had also complained about the same thing, and the cop had her car towed in addition to the ticket.

[Lynn Bodoni]

In some places, the misuse of a handicapped card by a friend or family member can result in the loss of that card, which I think is only right.


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Lynn the Packrat

[pldennison]

DIF, sounds like you're in the same boat as a friend of mine. Due to a pituitary tumor, he had to have portions of his hip replaced by bone from his lower leg, so he has a permanent limp and also walks with a cane. He has a placard, but only uses it if his leg is really flaring up or he would otherwise have to walk too far; he wants to leave the spaces for, as he says, the "really crippled." But when he does use it, inevitably some elderly person confronts him, and he'll simply go back to the car, shove the placard in their face and show them his scar.

Lynn, if the misuse is knowingly permitted by the placard holder, I might agree, but generally for a first offense I'd stick with a forgiveable fine. Second offense -- jerk it.

Phil, my 'impairment' isn't pituitary-related (at least, it's never been diagnosed that way, and I've never (AFAIK) had such symptoms), *knock on wood*. The prospect of possibly having to have deep-brain surgery is one of my personal horrors. I mean, you go in as 'you' but nobody can guarantee you'll wake up the same.

I pretty much use the privilege any time I drive anywhere, because I figure that's what it's there for; if my physician is satisfied that I'm sufficiently impaired to qualify, I ain't gonna stand there on my right leg with my left one hanging an inch short of the floor and argue with him. I've had one or two other confrontations besides the guy in the wheelchair, but the people were at least civil in approaching me and I was just as civil in explaining my condition and walking away.

But I can understand Trumpy's frustration, since I've had to restrain the urge to get my cane and use it on the windshield of an 'offending' car, but (with one exception) I've always ultimately found a placard, usually lying in the floor of the passenger seat.

In the one exception where I found the car illegally parked with no way to tell who drove it, I left a note under the driver-side wiper, reading:To the Driver of this Car: I am a handicapped employee of a nearby business. The management company of (Mall X) has asked me to monitor the use of handicapped parking spaces in this area. Today (insert date), your car with license number (insert number) was seen parking here without a sign of authorization. The first time this happens, it is assumed you forgot your placard. Your license number has been noted; a second occurrence will result in your car being ticketed (minimum $100 fine) and possibly impounded and towed.

Actually, however, I think the real subtext of Trumpy's complaint is that there are too many such placards being given out; but if it is, it's for him to start the new thread.

[BoBettie]

OK,
I like almost everyone on this board, so try not to get too offended by this post. I must rant about this subject, and I'm very sensitive about it.

Point #1. I am a young, apparently healthly looking person with a not obvious disability. I have a handicapped placard which I use on my very worst days and it humiliates me and I hate it, but I've had to use it a few times. I don't have to explain it to (collective) you. Don't fucking ask me about it in the parking lot. It's none of your business- if I still had a cane I would brain you with it for asking.

Point #2 People fucking forget things. The other day I took my 70 year old mother in law to the grocery store and she forgot her handicapped rear-view thingie (she doesn't drive, it's for when we are taking her places). She had hip surgery 8 weeks ago- I guess I should have just made her walk and struggle with her walker because she forgot it. Serves her right, the stupid bitch.

My reason for writing? When observing things like handicapped parking, if you don't know for SURE that someone is not disabled, MYOB. There are a million different stories out there. Make my day and ask me mine some day when I'm having enough pain that I have to use my handicapped tag and we'll have some fun.

FWIW, I am the first to let a store manager know if someone is illegally parked in a handicapped spot. If I had recieved a ticket the other day with my mother in law I could have presented her placard in court (or mine, I guess) and I doubt I would have received a ticket. Give people a break for Gods sake.

Thank you for listening to my rant- you may now resume your regular lives

Well said, Zette!

BTW, ever been approached by a 'crusading reporter' who's out to do an 'expose' of handicapped permit abuse?

[Markxxx]

Well this is OT, but I remember when I used to help out at a retirement home I used to go to the supermarket for them. Many had food stamps. So I would be in the checkout line, with two shopping carts full of food, paying for it with food stamps. (we are talking going shopping for 7 to 10 people so it was a lot of food and food stamps.

I got the nastiest comments from people. I was around 25 at the time. No one ever thought that I might be doing something good.

[BoBettie]

Like I said, Make My Day...
Do you feel lucky? Well do ya', punk?

Sorry, got a little Dirty Harry there..
No, never been approached, but If I'm actually using my permit it means I'm in miserable pain, so no one in their right mind would probobly approach me. I get this look about me, apparently. You can see it a mile away.
If I were approached we would have a conversation about why you don't ask others about their medical conditions, and if you see a car that has no permit parked in a spot, that's the only time you should take action (in the form of alerting the store manager/police). I have no problem with people being annoyed at drivers who park there illegally (ie:no special tags visable). If someone had called the police on me when I went with my mother in law I would not be upset with them at all. I was doing something wrong and I would have taken the consequences (embarassment, ticket, whatever)
But to see people parked in a spot and make a snap judgement on whether or not YOU think they are disabled is just intolerable to me. Makes my blood freaking boil, in fact. And by the way, if you don't think people can see your dirty looks and hear (collective) your snotty comments- they can. I've heard them, they cut very deep and make me feel like shit. If you're one of these people, stop. It's just fucking mean.
By the way, can you tell I'm not feeling great today? I have edited out about 30 swear words from this post already. In fact, I'm heading to my health club now, where I will park in the handicapped spot, go in and sit in the hot tub for about half an hour. Maybe I should bring a cane, or try to limp while I go in so no one gets upset. I sure hope that's OK with everyone. I'd hate to be a bother...

(This note contains sarcasm- please forgive my shitty attitude today.)

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Run for the hills, folks! Or you'll be up to your armpits in martians!

[BoBettie]

First, forgive my previous post- while it reflects my feelings well, I obviously have some unresolved issues I should not be taking out here. Points are valid, sarcasm is not.

Second, TV said:
So is driving, but if you're picked up without your license along, you get ticketed. In fairness, I don't know if the ticket is "cancelled" if you can prove you just forgot it, though. Does anyone know?

I got pulled over once without my license, and they just looked me up on the computer. They didn't seem to care at all, in fact. No ticket, no warning, no comment. This was in NY. FYI.
I better get me and my shitty attitude out of the pit before I start making enemies- :)

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Run for the hills, folks! Or you'll be up to your armpits in martians!

[Gr8Kat]

My sister was once accosted by the parking patrol for forgetting to put her placard in the windshield. It was a stupid incident because she came out of the store while they were still writing the ticket. She begged them to let her get her placard out so she could prove it was ok for her to be parked there, but they insisted on giving her the ticket anyway and told her to tell it to a judge. Which she did, and the ticket was dismissed.

I have another complaint that's not directly related to the OP, but on a tangent... I hate when able-bodied people use the handicapped stall in public restrooms. Now I understand if the other stalls are full, but a lot of people seem to prefer the handicapped stall even when the others are empty. It really galls me to have to wait outside the handicapped stall when the other doors are hanging open. I wish I could remind people when they come out of the stall that they have a choice and I don't, but again there is the possibility that they're more disabled than meets the eye. Still, there are some people at work who seems to race me to the handicapped stall. They zip passed me down the hall, duck into the restroom and into that stall. And then I have to wait. Or get on the elevator and try to find an empty handicapped stall on another floor.

People suck.

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

[TVeblen]

Zette: I hope I didn't offend you with anything I wrote. It certainly wasn't my intention, but if my comments did cause you pain or offense, I owe you an apology. An offense, even if it's unintentional, is still an offense.

At any rate, I should have checked more before stating an opinion on the ticket/no ticket issue. Working with my customary foggy logic, I was trying to separate the "forgetting" issue from the "right to" issue.

A friend of mine is in a wheelchair; she is paralyzed from the waist down. (Believe me, you are a pussycat compared to her on this issue!) Anyway, she can, will and has chopped people's heads off for LOOKING like they might even consider thinking that a physical disability implies any less intelligence or responsiblity. If she thought that the TAB's (temporarily able bodied) were given a heavier punishement for forgetting a required paperwork, she would rip the poor cop, judge and probably bailiff a new one. And this is a woman who could do it, too.

But no matter any of this, I apologize most sincerely if anything I said here caused you distress.

Veb

[BoBettie]

TV- no offense taken- loads of people are a little unclear on the buttons these kinds of issues push. I didn't mean to single anyone out- I just addressed some of my last post to you regarding forgetting your license and the consequences, that's all.
I'm not on some kind of mission about all of this, but I (and most others) refuse (rightly) to defend our use of handicapped spots or facilities just because we "look OK" to others. The more people that realize this (even if it's just a few) the less people who give me dirty looks for having the nerve to be sick. Hope it gave people food for thought- if it did, pass it on :)


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Run for the hills, folks! Or you'll be up to your armpits in martians!

[Gr8Kat]

I got mad at a former co-worker once who told me a story about how she got tired of the dirty looks given her and her daughter for using handicapped parking spaces. She said her daughter had broken her leg once and actually had to use a wheelchair as a result. The problem is, she didn't buy a temporary handicapped parking permit. She thought just toting around a wheelchair was entitlement enough to use the spaces and didn't appreciate it when people tried to tell her otherwise.

I wanted to tell her that, hey, the rest of us got signatures from our doctors and paid our money to park there, what did she think made her and her daughter so special? But I didn't--I'm just not good with confrontation :(

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"I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it," Jack Handy

[TVeblen]

Now I reallly am hanging my head in shame, not because anyone has been skinky about this, but because I'm finding I've operated under a lot of really poor assumptions.

In my work, we regularly certify people to receive home delivered books on tape, based on physical disability. The service is completely free, and it is not questioned. It most certainly can be temporary; some people recovering from surgery, etc. just can't get out or read conventional books in comfort. So all they have to do is ask, and it's done. FREE.

It never occured to me that handicapped permits had to PAID for! That is just wrong. Even if it's an "administrative fee", isn't that what the DMV is there to DO? Why should anyone have to pay for that classification? It's just a modification of the license and plates, which sure aren't cheap to begin with. That smacks of penalty, and that's wrong.

As far as the ticket for forgetting the drivers licenses, I was going on anecdotal evidence. (Which we all know is SO reliable. Sigh.) I am triple-check my license, insurance cards, etc. because I'm basically anal. It's the LAW (drum rolll). To carry that stuff, not to be anal. At least not yet. In Illinois. That I know of.

The thing about the different standards for forgetting the permit came from experience with my friend:

Me: Why are you giving that guy a hard time? He's just trying to be nice.

Her: Because the %$#$@ is *(&$## patronzing me, that why!

Me. Oh (said in small voice)

Anyway, it's reminded to me pin down some facts (so handy!) before expressing "wise" opinions.

Thanks, guys! Learning is what it is all about.

Veb

[yosemite]

My sister is handicapped, she has a fake leg and sometimes it is painful to walk on. Her other "real" leg also has problems, and she has been told to not walk on it for too long. But, when she wears her jeans, you can't tell that anything is wrong with her.

We recently moved out of our native state of California, and I guess the combination of the California plates on my car, and the fact that my sister has purple hair, make people think that she is not entitled to use the handicapped space, even though we always display the placard properly. So far all people do is glare, or make passing comments and then swiftly move on. But my sister swears, if anyone really confronts her and gives her enough time, she will gladly pull of her leg for them. (She loves to threaten to pull of her leg!) I would LOVE to see the look on someone's face when they see her sans leg! ;)

I used to work in a small retail store, which only had ONE handicapped space. I was the self-appointed Handicapped Space Monitor. Whenever I saw that someone had parking in the space without a permit, I'd get on the PA system and tell them to move their car somewhere else. I was firm, but polite. My supervisors, I know, always wanted to cringe because I was "making waves", but how could they stop me? They knew all about my sister, and they knew better than to cross me on this issue. What could they possibly tell me to stop? I knew and they knew that there was no damned way in Hell that they could try to squelch me.

We had a few incidents where customers got pissed off, too. One woman went ballistic after I made my PA announcement to move her car. She yelled that her daughter had a broken leg (the girl did) but yet when asked why didn't she get a placard then, the woman said she didn't have to. Her husband was a policeman, apparently. The woman went off the deep end with her ranting and self-righteous indignation. The supervisor on duty that night was a cool person, and quietly said, after this woman had finished railing into me for being so "rude" - "You know, her sister only has ONE LEG and she feels very strongly about this." The bitch still wouldn't back down, but did leave.

[handy]

In California, USA, a handicapped person can park anywhere they want to, 20 minute zones, loading zones, blue zones, Etc. There are only a certain number of blue parking spaces allocated for all of our city. So, need one? Have to take one of the others & make that a regular space.

'It never occured to me that handicapped permits had to PAID for!
That is just wrong. Even if it's an "administrative fee", isn't that what
the DMV is there to DO? Why should anyone have to pay for that
classification? It's just a modification of the license and plates, which
sure aren't cheap to begin with. That smacks of penalty, and that's
wrong.'

You'd be surprised what handicapped people have to pay for. Visit Disneyland. You have to PAY for the equipment. deaf people often have to pay for their own interpreters [even when the law says they don't] because cities aren't caught up with that.