Best (and worst) national anthems

[Valteron]

If we put aside our nationalism and our like and dislikes of certain countries, which are the best -- and worst -- national anthems?

Remember, this has nothing to do with how you feel about the country itself.

By the way, if you want to hear a given anthem, I think you can find most of them on Youtube. If you have another site where one may hear them all, please contribute it.

I have come to the conclusion that the French National Anthem belongs in the top 10 best. This rendition by opera singer Roberto Alagna is AWESOME! See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrtD2Nn_3Ok

The German National Anthem is very nice and is one of the few written by a famous composer (Haydn). I would rate it just under the French anthem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHDxUvDXFqg

At the other end of the scale, the Hungarian National Anthem leaves me kind of cold. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md0FZrCi4Ss

But the one I am most disappointed with is Italy's (Hear it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwVSTXn5ghw&mode=related&search= )

I can't believe this is the anthem of the country that gave the world Verdi, the Grand March from Aida, Rigoletto, etc. etc. This is the best Italy could do for an anthem? It sounds like some sort of polka!

Any other opinions?

[silenus]

The worst was probably East Germany's.

Lyrics:

Hail, hail East Germany / Land of fruit and grape / Land where you'll regret / If you try to escape / No matter if you tunnel under or take a running jump at the wall / Forget it, the guards will kill you, if the electrified fence doesn't first.







:D

[Alive At Both Ends]

Denmark's royal anthem gets my vote, if only for its lyrics:

King Kristian stood by the lofty mast
In mist and smoke;
His sword was hammering so fast,
Through Gothic helm and brain it passed;
Then sank each hostile hulk and mast,
In mist and smoke.
"Fly!" shouted they, "fly, he who can!
Who braves of Denmark's Kristian,
Who braves of Denmark's Kristian,
In battle?"

[Mehitabel]

I've always liked Israel's Hatikva, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWhCIUvnhIg) "the hope", and here's a stirring rendition with a translation. Is this the only anthem in a minor key?

I also have loved "God Bless Africa", or 'Nkosi sikelei' iAfrica' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWwz9UmjVk) which was originally an anti-apartheid anthem sung in the 80s (although compsed in 1897) and has now become the new national anthem, in Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans, and English.

Sorry, my flapping-headed beady-eyed neighbors to the north, but 'O Canada' is pretty bad IMO. In the 20s, my NS grandmother learned the old anthem, 'The Maple Leaf Forever', with stirring lyrics such as these:

"At Queenston Heights and Lundy's Lane,
Our brave fathers, side by side,
For freedom, homes, and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died;
And those dear rights which they maintained,
We swear to yield them never!
Our watchword evermore shall be,
The Maple Leaf forever!"

America's anthem doesn't torture syntax half as badly. And the chorus:

"The Maple Leaf, our emblem dear
The Maple Leaf forever!
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless,
The Maple Leaf forever!"

Bleah. You're singing a song to a plant.

[Czarcasm]

Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society.

[Crusoe]

Sung to exactly the same tune as God Save The Queen, I give you Liechtenstein's national anthem, Oben am deutschen Rhein:

Up above the young Rhine
Lies Liechtenstein, resting
On Alpine heights.
This beloved homeland,
This dear fatherland
Was chosen for us by
God's wise hand.
Second stanza

Long live Liechtenstein,
Blossoming on the young Rhine,
Happy and faithful!
Long live the Prince of the Land,
Long live our fatherland,
Through bonds of brotherly love
united and free!

[Rilchiam]

I love "O Canada!"! Even Terrence and Philip's version!

I'm also partial to "Advance Australia Fair" (http://www.hamilton.net.au/advance.html). Anecdote: Years ago, Hugh Jackman was called upon to sing it at the Bledisloe Cup. Tension was so high before the match (well, perhaps it always is?) that the visiting All-Blacks fans started booing before he even got to the mike. Like, "And now, to honor Australia--" "BOOOOOOOOOOO!" Well, he took that as a challenge, sang the hell out of it, the Aussie fans went nuts, and the NZ fans were at least subdued.

But even out of that context, it's a very spirited melody. And the Canadian anthem is grand, too. Personally, I just can't get past the SSB's melody being that of a drinking song. I'd rather sing any American anthem other than that. "America the Beautiful", for instance. "Patriotism swells in the heart of the American bear!" (You know you're Gen-X if you can't hear or sing AtB without adding that.)

[cbawlmer]

"The Star Spangled Banner" is terrible. It has that bleating tune, and it's incredibly difficult to sing, especially en masse. I'd prefer "This Land Is Your Land" or something folksy and American, not a co-opted British drinking song. While I'm at it, our flag is essentially a tacky combination of gaudy stripes and polka dots. I love my country, but I request a do-over for some of our patriotic symbols.

France and Germany have some of the best anthems. Dignified, easy enough to sing as a group of thousands, and still good enough to sound compelling when sung by a talented soloist.

[Celyn]

"God Save the Queen" is quite dire. "La Marseillaise" is really good, and as was mentioned earlier, well, "Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika" is tremendous, not least because it is so strange that the song of so many anti-apartheid demos is now, and I suppose for some time now, the national anthem.

Isn't there supposed to be a country somewhere that uses the "Liberty Bell March" as its national anthem? That would be lovely, because to me it will always and only be the Monty Python tune. I've got a sad feeling that there is no such country and this is just a fun myth though. :(

[Darth Nader]

"Patriotism swells in the heart of the American bear!" (You know you're Gen-X if you can't hear or sing AtB without adding that.)

I'm a US citizen born in 1971 and I have no idea what the hell that means. What do I lose?

[silenus]

I'm a US citizen born in 1971 and I have no idea what the hell that means. What do I lose?

It's a semi-obscure, but not very, Muppet reference.

[Beware of Doug]

the one I am most disappointed with is Italy's (Hear it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwVSTXn5ghw&mode=related&search= )

I can't believe this is the anthem of the country that gave the world Verdi, the Grand March from Aida, Rigoletto, etc. etc. This is the best Italy could do for an anthem? It sounds like some sort of polka!Yes, the anthem is one of the most - maybe the only - boring things about Italy. Even the name (Il canto degli Italiani = "Song of the Italians") is lame.

But think about it. Italy has no royal house, no illustrious military exploits...hell, it wasn't even a nation until that Garibaldi fellow started making a fuss. About all it has, nationalistically, is a governmental coalition built on constantly shifting allegiances that historically fall to hell every nine months. So of course they have a blah national anthem. If they didn't, they'd be on their 7,239th anthem since the end of WW2.

[Rilchiam]

Darth, I wouldn't say you lose anything by not knowing it; more that it's unusual for someone outside the Gen-X demographic to know it.

YouTube link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8njpzKboHuQ&mode=related&search=) Start at 4:43.

[RickJay]

I'm fond an athems that involve war. A national anthen should be something you can sing in defiance of the enemy. "The Star Spangled Banner" is okay but Denmark's is great, with a King chopping people's head in two. "La Marseillaise" is also excellent:

They are coming into your midst
To cut the throats of your sons, your wives!

That's an anthem you can get behind. I've always liked the tune of "O Canada" and I like the current habit of singing it in both languages, but I'd change the lyrics thus:

O Canada,
Our home and native land,
True patriot sons
Defend thy borders with guns,
Si tu foundre avec nous (If you fuck with us)
Vouz trouverez la bas seignant (You'll lie bleeding on the ground)
Parce que nous vous tirons dans la tete. ('Cause we'll shoot you in the head)
Alors, nous monterons d'un bateau (Then we'll get in a boat)
Et saut a votre pays, (And go to your country)
Tuez votre famille et brulez vote maison sacre! (Kill your family and burn down your goddamned house!)
We'll keep our land,
Glorious and free,
Oh, you sons of bitches
You'd best not fuck with us,
Oh, you sons of bitches
Best not fuck with us!

[Beware of Doug]

I forget who wrote it (some Canadian, obviously), but I once read a piece comparing the English vs. French lyrics to O Canada. The gist was the English lyric was blah, all about stalwartness and pride, but the French lyric was a lot more appealing, full of blood and crosses and swords.

[RikWriter]

God Save the Queen has a deadly boring melody. I personally couldn't stand to sing it.
The best...I think maybe the Soviet Union. Very stirring.

[Slithy Tove]

I like the incorrectly-assumed national anthems; those songs so superior to the actual national anthems that many outsiders mistake them and nationals prefer them.

Here's the Tukish national anthem, (http://youtube.com/watch?v=65_S-5GB_aw&mode=related&search=) the musical equivlent of eating Stovetop Stuffing straight out of the box.

By contrast, here's the traditional version of Ceddin Deden (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6mnN-gbKmvE), (translation: "Look to Your Fathers," meaning "Us Turks have always been tough!") which the Janissaries march to for the tourists, and which Turkish rockers (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GBaAJ2py6uE) seem to enjoy, even if it's a 300-year old song. (Cute girl! It's somehow comforting to see an expression of nationalism in a Molsem country that employs imagery that would outrage Islamic fundies).

Another example: although Wales isn't exactly a nation, it still has an anthem,The Land of my Fathers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpYogExUngU) (again with the fathers. Doesn't anyone's mom count for anything?). But a lot of people either assume or wish the Welsh national anthem was Men of Harlech (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YrZbUS0MaY4)

[Raygun99]

Denmark's reads like it was written by Iron Maiden.

The tune to the Russian/ex-Soviet anthem is truly fantastic.

[yams!!]

I also have loved "God Bless Africa", or 'Nkosi sikelei' iAfrica' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWwz9UmjVk) which was originally an anti-apartheid anthem sung in the 80s (although compsed in 1897) and has now become the new national anthem, in Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans, and English.




and you know what else? the national anthems of tanzania and zambia are sung to that same tune.

and i agree, it is really pretty.

love
yams!!

[dropzone]

I have come to the conclusion that the French National Anthem belongs in the top 10 best. This rendition by opera singer Roberto Alagna is AWESOME! See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrtD2Nn_3OkIt should be Number one. You should hear it here, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iYbEPZVVIA&mode=related&search=) when people MEANT it. Stirs the soul like no other.

(edited to add) It probably helps to not speak French.
(edited to also add) I have dialup, but you appear to need to sit through what I recall was the "Horst Wessel Lied."

[ragerdude]

I really like the Finnish national anthem. I don't know the Finnish words, but many of us Christians sing it as "Be Still, My Soul, the Lord is on Thy Side."

[ragerdude]

About the Finnish national anthem -- I forgot to mention that it was composed by Jean Sibelius, another brand-name composer.

[thelurkinghorror]

Slithy Tove, that video is from Finnish band Lordi's "Hard Rock Hallelujah." The music is just dubbed in, here's the original: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TdItwaLrv1U

It's my opinion that the best national anthems are violent. I've never heard that Denmark one, but it wins my stamp of approval. The very end of the song sounds a bit too much like the end of Star Spangled Banner though.

Amhrán na bhFiann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhran_na_bhFiann) is pretty good, but there is no shortage of bloody nationalist songs that could replace it in a pinch. "Follow Me Up to Carlow" reminds me of the Denmark one. As a bonus, it references events way in advance of the Troubles.

From Tassagart to Clonmore,
There flows a stream of Saxon gore
Oh, great is Rory Oge O'More,
At sending loons to Hades.
White is sick and Lane is fled,
Now for black FitzWilliam's head
We'll send it over, dripping red,
To Liza and her ladies.

[Baker]

Japan's anthem is one of the most boring, at least to this Westerner's ear. And as for the lyrics, I hope the original Japanese is better than the English translation.

May the reign of the Emperor continue for a thousand, nay, eight thousand generations and for the eternity that it takes for small pebbles to grow into a great rock and become covered with moss.

[Paladud]

I'm partial to the Ukrainian national anthem (http://youtube.com/watch?v=x1oMKa-BSvU). Turkey is fun too.

Finland is good. Biafra took a chunk of a better Sibelius piece when it was around.

[drm]

When I was a kid I lived for the Olympics every four years. I was always excited when the Soviets won a gold medal because I knew I'd get to hear their national anthem. I guess theirs has always been my favorite.

Number 2 and 3 would have to be Germany and France, respectively. Those are quality anthems as well.

I'm Canadian. I am quite found of the instrumental version of our anthem but I personally can't stand the lyrics. I'd definitely vote for the lyrics RickJay came up with.

[dropzone]

FWIW, when my parents bought a Magnus Chord Organ, the first song I learned was "The Maple Leaf," followed by "Hatikvah." Not because I was Canadian or Jewish, but I liked the tunes.

(looking at my downloads) Edith Piaf? The WHORE! (deleting the file)

[if6was9]

I really like The Star Spangled Banner. As a tune it's not so great, but the story behind it is so great. Francis Scott Key and others were taken prisoner onto a British ship in Baltimore Harbour. Not sure who or what significance they were... Anyways, as the British Ships fired cannon at Fort McHenry all night, they watched. Seeing the flag still waving. As dawn dawned, it still was there. After that the anthem is the prisoners thumbing their noses and razzing their British captors.

Oh! Say! Can you see, by the dawn's early light, what so proudly we hailed at the twilights last gleaming?

Nyah nyah nyah! :p

[jovan]

I forget who wrote it (some Canadian, obviously), but I once read a piece comparing the English vs. French lyrics to O Canada. The gist was the English lyric was blah, all about stalwartness and pride, but the French lyric was a lot more appealing, full of blood and crosses and swords.
A lot more? I'm not so sure. Here's an excrutiatingly literal and un-poetic translation:

O, Canada, land of our ancestors
Your brow is decorated with glorious flowers
For your arm knows how to carry the sword
It knows how to carry the cross
Your history is an epic of the most brilliant exploits
And your valour, steeped in faith
Will protect our homes and our rights

It does a tremendous job of completely mis-representing Canada in its current state. Land of our ancestors? Military might? Christian faith? Epic history? What country was this again?


Japan's anthem is one of the most boring, at least to this Westerner's ear. And as for the lyrics, I hope the original Japanese is better than the English translation.

May the reign of the Emperor continue for a thousand, nay, eight thousand generations and for the eternity that it takes for small pebbles to grow into a great rock and become covered with moss.

That's pretty much what it says in the original too. There's just a slight nitpick in that the term sazare-ishi in the original is often translated as "pebble", but it's more accurately a type of conglomerate rock that looks like this (http://news.local-group.jp/editor/images/2007/20070204_7.jpg). The lyrics are very old, dating at least to the 10th century CE. There's a theory that this particular poem was chosen because it sorts of mirrors God Save the King. Incidently, it won first prize at the 1903 National Anthem Competition.

[MrDibble]

I also have loved "God Bless Africa", or 'Nkosi sikelei' iAfrica' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsWwz9UmjVk) which was originally an anti-apartheid anthem sung in the 80s (although compsed in 1897) and has now become the new national anthem, in Xhosa, Zulu, Sesotho, Afrikaans, and English.


Of course, I'm biased, but I have to agree. The best bit? It never mentions South Africa at all, just Africa. The worst bit, IMO, is that it's a hymn, so I find it a bit exclusionary. Still, a lot of anthems mention God, so what can you do?

Although that Danish one comes a close second, now. I love the sword-helm-brain lines. If only I'd seen this before my wife left yesterday for Aalborg. She'd have gotten a kick out of this.

[Uosdwis R. Dewoh]

About the Finnish national anthem -- I forgot to mention that it was composed by Jean Sibelius, another brand-name composer.

Actually the Finnish national anthem was composed by Fredrik Pacius. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrik_Pacius) You might be confusing the finnish anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSlAuPOUew4) and Finlandia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZOXNbBRxM) wich was composed by Sibelius and considered by many finns as our second national anthem.

[don't ask]

I have always liked the fact that God Defend New Zealand is sung in both Maori and English each time.

And then later is followed by the even cooler haka.

[Baker]

The words of the Mexican anthem are pretty warlike too.

http://www.inside-mexico.com/anthem.htm

But the Danish anthem still sounds more graphic.

[Lust4Life]

I'm patriotic but I think "God Save the Queen" is a dirge.
My favourite is the European anthem "Ode to Joy"by Beef Oven.

[DesertDog]

I have dialup, but you appear to need to sit through what I recall was the "Horst Wessel Lied."It's "Die Wacht Am Rhein" They wanted to use "Horst Wessel Lied" but it was still in copyright and WB figured they'd have trouble getting clearance. Cite (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034583/trivia)

[mhendo]

"The Star Spangled Banner" is terrible. It has that bleating tune, and it's incredibly difficult to sing, especially en masse. Yeah, it really is awful.

I should say, up front, that i've never been a big fan of national anthems in general, either the songs themselves or the (often jingoistic) ideas behind them.

But, like them or not, anthems are supposed to belong to the people of a nation, and to that end should be relatively easy for a non-professional to sing. The American anthem requires a much larger vocal range than most anthems, making it very difficult for regular people to sing without sounding terrible. Which means that, at sporting events and public ceremonies and other occasions where the anthem is sung, the crowd generally leaves the singing to some professional singer and just stands there.

What's even worse is that the professional often uses the singing of the anthem as an excuse for showing off his or her range and improvisational ability, so the anthem gets butchered even further just because some over-rated pop star feels the need to show off. Luckily, this sort of thing seems to have become less frequent over the past few years.

[DocCathode]

I think Israel's national anthem stinks. It sounds like a funeral dirge. You have lyrics about hope being sung in a depressing monotone.

[Baker]

What's even worse is that the professional often uses the singing of the anthem as an excuse for showing off his or her range and improvisational ability, so the anthem gets butchered even further just because some over-rated pop star feels the need to show off. Luckily, this sort of thing seems to have become less frequent over the past few years.

That's one of my pet peeves. But a couple of times I've been pleasantly surprised.

The Oak Ridge Boys, in tuxedos no less, did the SSB at the opening of the sixth game of the World Series in 1985. I saw these guys come out and groaned, wondering how they were going to butcher the anthem. But they didn't. They sang in four part harmony, at a normal tempo, and really sounded great.

Toni Teneille(sp?) did the anthem at a Dodgers game, and instead of doing it "star style" she opened by speaking to the audience "Won't you all please join me in singing our national anthem?" Then she sang it along with everyone, not as a solo.

[flodnak]

The German National Anthem is very nice and is one of the few written by a famous composer (Haydn). I would rate it just under the French anthem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHDxUvDXFqgBack when my older son was following Formula 1, and Michael Schumacher was winning about every other race (at least it seemed that way....), I used to love annoying him by singing the University of Pittsburgh alma mater while the award ceremony was on TV. Same Haydn melody. Alma mater, wise and glorious / Child of Light and Bride of Truuuuth...

Good times, good times :p

[Sapo]

The chorus of the Venezuelan anthem is also used as the melody for a popular lullaby. Make if it what you want. Venezuelans are (used to be, at least) very proud of this fact. There is even a popular song about the musical spirit of the Venezuelans that has the line "we calm our babies to sleep with our national anthem".


I have always interpreted the lyrics of the US anthem as a bunch of scared soldiers spending the night in a trench hole waiting for sunlight to find out if they are still in the battle or have already been routed. Something must be getting lost on translation.

[Charlie Tan]

Soviet / Russia's tune is best, hands down. Here's a version by the Red Army Choir. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ)

[Ximenean]

My favourites:

Russia
Germany
USA
Italy

I don't like the French one at all. Not stately enough. OK, neither is Italy's, but theirs is a better tune. I agree with with the general view that the British/Lichtensteiner anthem is a dirge. And I can't stand the South African one, sorry.

[Ximenean]

Soviet / Russia's tune is best, hands down. Here's a version by the Red Army Choir. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ)
Stirring, to be sure, but I think all the bellowing drowns the actual tune, which is a killer. Instrumental version (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4fRU_k4tjoU&mode=related&search=).

[silenus]

Soviet / Russia's tune is best, hands down. Here's a version by the Red Army Choir. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ)

The tune is stirring, but the lyrics are so laughably ironic. They were before the fall, and they are even more so now.

[Gukumatz]

Just throwing the Norwegian National Anthem (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=u2v53KV00B4&mode=related&search=) out there for the wolves. Curious to hear what you lot think of it.

Yes, we love with fond devotion
This our land that looms
Rugged, storm-scarred o'er the ocean
With her thousand homes.
Love her, in our love recalling
Those who gave us birth.
And old tales which night, in falling,
Brings as dreams to earth.

Norsemen whatsoe'er thy station,
Thank thy God whose power
willed and wrought the land's salvation
In her darkest hour.
All our mothers sought with weeping
And our sires in fight,
God has fashioned in His keeping
Till we gained our right.

Yes, we love with fond devotion
This our land that looms
Rugged, storm-scarred o'er the ocean
With her thousand homes.
And, as warrior sires have made her
Wealth and fame increase,
At the call we too will aid her
Armed to guard her peace.

[kath94]

It's a semi-obscure, but not very, Muppet reference.

I used to have The Muppet Movie soundtrack playing in my 1st-ever car, a 1970's-something Opel. On 8-track. How pathetic is that?

[fortytwo]

...
Another example: although Wales isn't exactly a nation, it still has an anthem,The Land of my Fathers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpYogExUngU) (again with the fathers. Doesn't anyone's mom count for anything?). But a lot of people either assume or wish the Welsh national anthem was Men of Harlech (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YrZbUS0MaY4)

If Wales isn't exactly a nation what is it?

We have a national teams in sport, my passport says my nationality is Welsh, I've filled in countless forms with Wales as my nationality and had them accepted.

I think the lyrics for most of the national anthems are rubbish but musically the Russian anthem is very stirring.

[silenus]

Ummmmmmm......mine was a Dodge van, and it was on cassette, but I'm not one to cast stones here. :D

[RickJay]

If Wales isn't exactly a nation what is it?

We have a national teams in sport, my passport says my nationality is Welsh, I've filled in countless forms with Wales as my nationality and had them accepted.
Wales is a nation. I think what he meant is that it's not really a country, or more precisely a state. Wales is a nation that's a subpart of the state known as the United Kingdom.

[Ximenean]

I just want to say what it is about the tune of the American national anthem that makes it sound so good, to me. At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's the raised fourth on, for example, the "-ly" of "dawn's ear-ly light". A boring tune would have that note, and corresponding notes elsewhere, as a straight fourth, but here it's raised, I suppose by a semitone. Anyway, that unexpected raised note is what makes the tune, for me.

[Beware of Doug]

Wales is a nation. I think what he meant is that it's not really a country, or more precisely a state. Wales is a nation that's a subpart of the state known as the United Kingdom.One historian has commented that the Welsh, "apart from their language, lacked practically every attribute of a nation except for the perverse and persistent belief that they were one."

[Charlie Tan]

The tune is stirring, but the lyrics are so laughably ironic. They were before the fall, and they are even more so now.
Actually, they weren't ironic before the fall. They might be perceived that way now.
If you grew up during the Cold War, you know that that there was a real fear that we might all die in a nuclear holocaust. I had nightmares for weeks after watching the movie version of On The Beach.
I can think of a number of adjectives to attach to the Soviet national anthem, pre '89 - petulant, delusional, histrionic - but ironic isn't one of them.

And I still think it's a beautiful tune.

[silenus]

"Freeborn republics" - In a forced collective called the USSR

"Sing to the Motherland, home of the free" - In one of the most repressive socities on the planet

"To a righteous cause he raised up the peoples" - Righteous? Somebody needs a dictionary

After the fall the irony piles on irony, but these phrases were a joke years before the fall.

[Ximenean]

They were a joke, but they weren't *ironic*. They were were just untruths knowingly uttered by the regime of that time, i.e. common or garden lies. They may seem ironic now, given what subsequently happened, but they weren't ironic then. They were merely untrue.

[mhendo]

"Freeborn republics" - In a forced collective called the USSR

"Sing to the Motherland, home of the free" - In one of the most repressive socities on the planet

"To a righteous cause he raised up the peoples" - Righteous? Somebody needs a dictionary

After the fall the irony piles on irony, but these phrases were a joke years before the fall.Right, but a joke is not the same as irony.

When the Bush regime lies about how great it is, it's not irony; it's just lying. Nor were those lyrics irony. Propaganda? Self-delusion? Lying? You could make a case for any and all of them, but i don't think irony is a good description.

[silenus]

I bow to those with better word choice. Ironic later, a joke before.

[bathsheba]

Advance Australia Fair is a bit of a dirge but I've always liked the words (though not us much as the Danish anthem's!).

Australians all let us rejoice,
For we are young and free;
With golden soil and wealth for toil,
Our home is girt by sea;
Our land abounds in Nature's gifts
Of beauty rich and rare;
In history's page, let every stage
Advance Australia fair!
In joyful strains then let us sing,
"Advance Australia fair!"


Beneath our radiant southern Cross,
We'll toil with hearts and hands;
To make this Commonwealth of ours
Renowned of all the lands;
For those who've come across the seas
We've boundless plains to share;
With courage let us all combine
To advance Australia fair.
In joyful strains then let us sing
"Advance Australia fair!"

What's not to love about being "girt by sea"?

And can we not make the haka an official anthem and crown it winner? Oooom chaka chaka chaka ooooooooom!!

[DSYoungEsq]

Allons enfants de la Patrie Arise, children of the fatherland
Le jour de gloire est arrivé! The day of glory has arrived!
Contre nous de la tyrannie Against us, the tyranny's
L'étendard sanglant est levé. Bloody banner is raised.
L'étendard sanglant est levé. Bloody banner is raised.
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes Do you hear in the fields
Mugir ces féroces soldats ? The howling of these savage soldiers?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras They are coming into your midst
Égorger vos fils et vos compagnes ! To cut the throats of your sons, your wives!

Aux armes, citoyens ! To arms, citizens!
Formez vos bataillons ! Form your battalions!
Marchons, marchons ! Let us march, let us march!
Qu'un sang impur May tainted blood
Abreuve nos sillons ! Water our fields!

[DSYoungEsq]

Allons enfants de la Patrie Arise, children of the fatherland
Le jour de gloire est arrivé! The day of glory has arrived!
Contre nous de la tyrannie Against us, the tyranny's
L'étendard sanglant est levé. Bloody banner is raised.
L'étendard sanglant est levé. Bloody banner is raised.
Entendez-vous dans les campagnes Do you hear in the fields
Mugir ces féroces soldats ? The howling of these savage soldiers?
Ils viennent jusque dans vos bras They are coming into your midst
Égorger vos fils et vos compagnes ! To cut the throats of your sons, your wives!

Aux armes, citoyens ! To arms, citizens!
Formez vos bataillons ! Form your battalions!
Marchons, marchons ! Let us march, let us march!
Qu'un sang impur May tainted blood
Abreuve nos sillons ! Water our fields!I hate it when the stupid system times out on you in the middle of edits. Wish they'd Freaking FIX the damn thing. :mad:

[fortytwo]

Wales is a nation. I think what he meant is that it's not really a country, or more precisely a state. Wales is a nation that's a subpart of the state known as the United Kingdom.

So are England and Scotland countries?

[Gukumatz]

So are England and Scotland countries?

Yes and no. (According to the way I've been taught, at least)

In everyday speak, they are seperate countries bonded by shared legislation. It's proper to refer to a scotsman as being from Scotland, the country, in a way it's not proper to refer to an American abroad as, for example, a Texan, Iowan or New Yorker. He's Scottish and she's American, living in New York, if you will.

However, in formal and political context, all four countries are considered nations that, together in the alliance, constitute a country.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or dated, though.

[mhendo]

So are England and Scotland countries?To the extent necessary for this particular discussion, sure. They may not be nations in the same way as, for example, the United States, but there are plenty of people in Great Britain who consider themselves English or Scottish or Welsh even more strongly than they consider themselves British.

And if you accept that a nation is, as Benedict Anderson famously wrote, an "imagined community," then i think that having a national anthem and a sense of national community is probably sufficient, at least for our purposes.

[TheLoadedDog]

I should point out a pet opinion of mine regarding national anthems. In both Australia and America (and probably elsewhere too), there is a lot of feeling that "this here other song" is better, more well-loved, and should be the anthem instead.

I say that's codswallop. When I am overseas, it is "Waltzing Matilda" that will bring a tear long before "Advance Australia Fair" ever will, and I also think "America the Beautiful" is leagues ahead of the SSB...


...but...


...if we made those songs our new anthems, they would lose something special- instantly. National anthems are for dull events of state, politicians, and endless, boring schooldays. Let the ownership of the "real" song stay with the people. "Waltzing Matilda" is a hundred times better than "Advance Australia Fair", but if it ever goes to another vote, I'm voting it down. That song doesn't belong to the government, it belongs to me.

[TokyoBayer]

Japan's anthem is one of the most boring, at least to this Westerner's ear. And as for the lyrics, I hope the original Japanese is better than the English translation.

May the reign of the Emperor continue for a thousand, nay, eight thousand generations and for the eternity that it takes for small pebbles to grow into a great rock and become covered with moss. It is indeed a dreary song, and not liked by many Japanese either, most of whom have no idea what the hell that line means.