Headlights in daytime - why?

After a recent drive to the beach (thru Maryland & Delaware) I gotta vent about this. What's the deal with car headlights on in the daytime (on a clear, sunny day)? On my recent drive, I noticed road signs saying "Use of headlights suggested." I commented (loudly) to my friend "If someone can't see me in the daytime without my headlights on, they're blind and shouldn't be driving!" Hey, how about signs saying "Use of courtesy suggested," or better yet, "Use of turn signals suggested." Someone told me that now all new cars are being made so that the headlights come on when you turn on the ignition. I can't stand it. As far as I know, there's no law requiring headlights in daytime, yet the auto manufacturers are going to force us to do this. If I get a new car, I will have that feature disabled.

If I get a new car, I will have that feature disabled.

Why? Do ya wanna sneak up on somebody?

All the headlights do is make it just a little bit easier for other people to see you coming. Motorcycles have had the manditory running headlights for decades. It isn't a conspiracy between automakers and the Halogyn industry, it's just another pasive safety feature that doesn't demand anything from you. Unless you object to them on asthetic grounds, well then have at it.

If you want something really worth ranting about, how about headlights on vacumn cleaners?

In Scadinavia headlights have been mandatory during daylight for at least 15 years. Car with headlights on is much easier to see even when sun is behind it.
Varying light conditions, ie on the highway, sort of makes car with lights on much safer and more visible.


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Cogito Ergo Vroom
I think therefore I ride fast...

I don't know it for a fact, but I have heard that driving with your headlights on during the day has been shown statistically significant in reducing accidents. There's a daytime headlights test area a ways north of here, and I have heard, again anecdotally, that when it went in to effect the accident rate lowered on that stretch of highway.

-Melin

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I'm a woman phenomenally
Phenomenal woman
That's me
(Maya Angelou)

The NTSB demonstrated that lights reduce accidents significantly on two-lane roads as long ago as 1971. There have been two brief attempts to put always-on running lights on cars. The first was voluntary and fizzled, the second was to be mandated and was killed incommittee. (You don't need headlights, just some sort of light to indicate that the car is approaching, not receding.)

In the two-lane road scenarios, people are much less likely to attempt to pass when they see lights indicating a car in the oncoming lane and people are much less likely to pull out in front of a light-identified car.

On freeways, I suspect that there may be some reduction of accidents due to better recognition of people (lights) in the mirrors, (way too many fools out there driving as though they don't need to know who's behind them), but the big payback was on two-lane roads.

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Tom~

I suspect the two-lane passing scenario Tom described is because with two points of light to use as a reference (binocular advantage, so to speak) people can more easily and accurately judge the speed and distance of an approaching vehicle.

I always run with headlights when driving for extended lengths of time, such as interstate driving. I figure what the hell, maybe that dope who's falling asleep in the left lane will perk up and think I'm a cop coming upon him at 80 mph and get the frig out of my way. Then I leave my lights on at my destination and curse the fact my car does not have daytime running lights.

The headlight on my vacuum cleaner has definitely reduced the housepet/cleaner accident statistics in my house alone. For that alone, my dog is eternally grateful.

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"...send lawyers, guns, and money..."

Warren Zevon

well we all have our pet peeves -- I don't why this has bugged me so much, but it has, but you just about have me convinced it's a good thing. It's just seems like an easy out when there are other things (like road rage and signalling) that seem to me to be more important but don't have such a simple solution. Thanks for the input guys.

quote:
posted 06-10-99 09:25 PM
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quote:

Unless you object to them on asthetic grounds, well then have at it.

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You hit it right on the nose there. My car ('96 Chevy Corsica) has DRL's that look absolutly stupid. One way to disable the DRL's is to leave the parking brake on just one click. It doesn't affect driving, but it keeps the lights off.

I'm with Tom on the two-lane situation. One additional points: there are lots of cars that are silver or grey colored, that are very difficult to see in the distance. The headlights help.

Though I was flummoxed when I first rented a car with daytime running lights (*I can't get the lights off! The battery's gonna die!*) I have to admit that I like them now. If you need a selfish reason to use them, I've noticed cars getting out of my way when they see the lights on - apparently they think there is some emergency or I'm part of a funeral procession :)

My own pet peeve is suicidal drivers who don't put on the lights in parking garages. Yoo-hoo, it's dark in there, and it's especially dark when you enter them from the bright sunlight.

My pet peeve are people in low visibility conditions or in dusk/dawn time frames that refuse to turn their lights on.

I can just imagine them thinking "I don't need my lights on, I can see just fine!"

I would really love to be able to pull them over and point out to them that by turning their lights on, they will be more visible to others, and possibly prevent some other non-driving idiot on the road from running onto them.

End of Rant.

<FONT COLOR="GREEN">ExTank</FONT>

ExTank - Your first task would be to convince them that there actually are others on the road.

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The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs. -- E. Grebenik

Felinecare did say:

My own pet peeve is suicidal drivers who don't put on the lights in parking garages. Yoo-hoo, it's dark in there, and it's especially dark when you enter them from the bright sunlight.

This is a friend-of-a-friend report, but years ago I was told that someone's insurance company only paid off part of their accident claim, because the company said driving in a parking garage without their headlights on contributed to the accident.

it's for your saftey...

PapaBear writes:All the headlights do is make it just a little bit easier for other people to see you coming.


Is there evidence that this is not like sticking one of those Day-Glo orange ping-pong balls on your car's radio antenna to make it easier to find; i.e., that it works until everybody does it, at which point we all ignore it?

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"Gold cannot always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold"

Not really. They do the same thing on the railroads, where locomotives have run with lights in the daylight for years. A visible light says more that "object ahead." A visible light says "object ahead, in motion, aimed at you."

Would there be some diminishing effect on freeways where, in moderate to heavy traffic, any single set of lights in your rearview mirror would be mentally dismissed as "just one more car"? Very possibly. Would there ever be a time when someone on U.S. 2 in Montana would fail to notice that there was an oncoming car in the heat waves? Unlikely.
There will, indeed, be people who will see the lights and still cause an accident trying to pass another car because they will judge the distance badly, but that simply reflects a general lack of judgment among a certain percentage of drivers.

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Tom~

I asked this question a few months back, should still be in the archives.

On My car, Grand Am SE, The headlights are always on, Well Daytime running lamps at day and headlights at night. It has a sensor and just does it for me, even at night I can't turn them off if I want to (unless I park the car and pull the E-brake, or turn off the engine. You said that the sign suggested head light use on the way to the beach. Do you mean just while you were on the drive there or, when you were close to the beach (ie pulllng up to the sand to park), in which case maybe it has a history of a land of sand flying up in the air and making it hard for other people to see your car

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Formerly known as Nec3f on the AOL SDMB

Akatsukami>

Actually, I would think things would get even better when everyone was following daytime light usage. Then you'd be better trained to think "car with lights"="moving car", "car with no lights"="stopped car". Until then, "car with no lights" might= "stopped car" but then again it might not.

Yeah sure. Car with green light= in motion.

As I have put in a few headlights myself I can't see why anyone would want to keep paying for them by leaving their lights on.

have no idea what they cost to put in these days but those fancy lights can't be cheap.

I keep my headlihgts on most of the time. My truck has 150,000 mi. and is on only its second set of headlights. I can live with that.

In New Hampshire, much of Route 101 has mandatory headlight use at all times. Along the road are crosses at accident sites where people died b/c it is a two-lane (one each direction) undivided highway with speed limits of 50-60 mph. The headlights make cars much more obvious to see, even in the daytime, and it has helped cut down the very high death rate on the road. Now they are finally making it into the nice multilane divided highway it needs to be to handle traffic to and from the coast so the headlight use rules will probably go away.

side-note: When and where I grew up, the only people who drove with their headlights on in the day were in funeral or wedding processions,driving busses, or on curvy one lane roads. It was sortof a sign "Warning: I am bereaved/elated/carrying large numbers of children/drunk-- stay away from me!"

The daytime light users irritate me to the highest, because it makes the simple courtesy of not cutting off a procession impossible.

My new VW Jetta has daytime running lights. As far as I can tell, they're exactly the same as the headlights; turning on the headlight switch doesn't change the amount of light coming from the front lamps. (It does turn on the dashboard lights and the taillights, of course.)

I once passed a funeral procession in which the cars did not have their headlights on. Each of them had a little "Funeral" sign stuck to its roof, apparently with a magnet, which made it impossible to confuse funeral cars with those that simply have running lights.

I can accept that a light in the front of the car may be of benefit in two lane roads and in passing situations. I also may accept that in streets with lines of cars on the side a moving/not moving indicator may be good.

I on the other hand HATE people who have their headlights on in the day time. They are just too bright. I don't like driving on busy roads at night because of the bright lights (luckily they've begun putting blinds between undivided interstates lately), but now I can avoid them in the day. On roads with even a slight hill, the head lights shine directly into the eyes of the oncoming drivers and in the rear view mirors of the guy in front of you. This is very problematic. In the day you cannot dim your rearview mirror to mute out the light either, and still use it. The glare of on coming lights blinds me to the people in front of me, who are immediately more important.

I would suggest this, daytime running lights which consist of amber parking lights, or at minimum lower, dimmer headlamps. Until they add dimmer settings on the cars, please use your parking lights, they will do just fine, brighter is not better. A better arrangement would be implementing mandatory headlight usage on two lane roads, and possibly in city streets, but not and interstates and busy roads. Leave the power up to the driver, and don't perscribe this as permanent on all cars. It isn't a passive system, you may put others at risk.

My Dad would reply to this thread with:

"To make people ask questions"

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The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it.
George Bernard Shaw

Here in Canada DRLs have been madatory since 1990.

I have never noticed them being too bright during the day as the sun is much brighter.

I think they are a good idea, since you no longer have to rely on people to turn on their lights during rain or fog.

Now what my brother and I can't figure out are the passenger side airbags. I am 6' and I can't reach the dash by leaning forward in most cars. If you don't wear a seatbelt in a car you deserve to go through the windshield.



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Scoobysnax

Save water drink beer!

D R L definitely work!
I have scared many a moose of my local roads with my lights on!
But seriously, folks.
I turn my lights on before dark because here in the great northeast a traveller heading west has the sun in his eyes. Brake lights aren't good enough! Day Time running lights are very safe.

My '98 Corolla has DRLs and sensors to detect diminishing light. To me, it's a small convenience not to have to turn the lights on at night. What I like better is the fact that my insurance company recognizes DRLs as an added safety feature (like air bags) and I get a discount on my policy. Nice.

"All the headlights do is make it just a little bit easier for
other people to see you coming."

So, this begs the question, is driving while having sex, safe?

[Neenah]

In response to Papabear.....

Everybody knows that the only reason they put headlights on vacuum cleaners is to scare cats and men away from them.

Neenah

[moriah]

Many funeral directors now ask people to put on their high beams ('country lights' for some of you) in procession.

Anyway, I hate the funeral procession of cars (for a variety of reasons). Just give everyone a map to the cemetery -- they'll get there.

Peace.

[Wonko The Sane]

One reason? Old people going to the bank with their check. They can't see to well, and dammit, nobody's taking their liscense away!

[speakeasy]

Wow, is that as offensive as you low down, high smellin, no good, two timing, sidewindin, knuckledraggin, inbred, throwback poor excuse for a pack of bum steers can get? Thats cool.

Factiod: The US Air Force found that they got a lot fewer bombers blasted out of the sky by ack ack (anti air craft fire to you civvies) when they mounted downward facing high intensity spotlights on the belly of the plane with sky blue gels in front of them. Turns out the sky is pretty darn bright most all the time, and no matter what color you paint the plane, it looks like a dark spot unless you provide some extra light.

What the hell does that have to do with daytime headlights? Well, I've always wondered if the same effect could happen when your car is backlit by just the right horizon. Things to think about on that next road trip through Kansas.....

[Jorge]

Two points:

1. While I always believed in driving lights (especially on long, straight 2-lane highways in the West) whether on my motorcycle or in my truck... I occasionally forget around twilight, and switch on the real headlights after a few moments, at which point someone thinks I'm flashing my high-beams. Potentially dangerous in L.A., I s'pose.

2. If required to drive with day-running lights (for example in a test area with a sign requiring it), I imagine this provides ample probable cause for the highway patrol to pull over people... Always wondered about that down in Imperial County, and other places along the Mexican border. The signs are not pictographic, and actually require you to read.

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"Proverbs for Paranoids, 1: You may never get to touch the Master, but you can tickle his creatures."
- T.Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow.

[LateComer]

I on the other hand HATE people who have their headlights on in the day time. They are just too bright
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Just a note: driving with parking lights on is illegal in many states, including Pennsylvania (though it is legal to pass on the right in PA, go figure?). They are parking lights, not driving lights. If it is "dark" enough to need lights, please make us all safer and use your headlights.

I also have sensitive eyes and often have to wear sunglasses on cloudy days, but during the day I have never seen a running headlight that has had any adverse affect on my eyes. Even a cloudy sky is ten-fold more bright. Perhaps at dusk or twilight there can be a problem.


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"Shoplifting is a victimless crime. Like punching someone in the dark." -Nelson Muntz.

[Markxxx]

When I lived in the Florida Keys it was suggested but not manditory to drive with headlights on. It didn't seem to make much difference to me

Like another poster said, you just got used to seeing lights on and ignored it.

But then everyone else seems to think it helped so I guess it doesn't hurt.

[Xenopus]

In Arizona, their are certain sections of highway whh require you to turn your headlights off during daylight because of light refraction on the hot surface of the road. On hot roads, you see an optical illusion of water or silver far in front of you. If a car is coming out of this optical illusion with its lights on, it is difficult to tell if the car is really there. Therefore you are warned to turn your headlights off. But signs do tell you to turn them back on when you leave the sections of roadway where this effect is prevalent.

[Sycorax]

Wow - I thought my topic had died a long time ago - enjoyed your posts everyone. Reading the references to funerals, I have to add my experience (which I didn't include in the orignal post for fear of boring everyone). Coming out of a side street from work onto the main highway one day - my light turned green; I looked first, as I always do, because of red-light runners. I started to go, then realized a car was continuing thru their redlight - headlights on; Ijust figured it was a red-light runner; I waited; another car with headlight on - whoa - a funeral procession - but just one more car went thru.
Hmm.. short funeral procession. I waited another few seconds cause Ididn't know what the hell was going on. Hard to believe three people would run the red, but awfully short funeral procession. It bothered me because it was a dangerous situation. Someone less cautious than I would have hit one of those guys!

[tracer]

moriah wrote:

Many funeral directors now ask people to put on their high beams ('country lights' for some of you) in procession.

California (and I would guess most other states) have a law that says if you're on a one-lane road and there are 5 or more cars following closely behind you because you're a slow-poke, you MUST pull over and let them pass. UNLESS the cars form some kind of a group, convoy, or procession.

How did the cops tell if your cars were part of a procession? Simple. You all turned on your headlights.

I wonder how daytime running lights are going to affect the enforcement of this law....

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I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.

[Kakkerlak]

I'm all for DRL's and running your headlights in the daytime. And this is for just one reason: I-90.

To drive from Seattle to the Eastside in the morning, or reverse in the evening, you're going into the sun. Whether you're wearing sunglasses or just squinting, your vision drops to zero when you.... enter the Mount Baker or Mercer Island tunnels or freeway lids. Suddenly cars near your blind spot or behind you are invisible. Ask any Briton; tunnel wrecks are no fun.

In ordinary Seattle weather (no glare problems) the DRLs make you visible to people who change their wiper blades as often as their brake pads.

[CatInHat]

Most funeral directors nowadays stick a little "Funeral" flag on the roofs of all the cars in the procession. IIRC, the flags are held onto the car by magnets.

I think someone else mentioned this in this thread, but I can't find it.

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The Cat In The Hat

[putrid]

Good bloody hell, so (most of) you're the murderous scum using headlights during the day. The idea is simple, make sure that YOU are seen but in the process make it harder for anyone else to be. Just part of the reinforcement of the concept that it's a right, not a privilege, to drive--drunk, drugged, blind, or extremely stupid. "Put your headlights on and you can safely make it home from the bar." "Require airbags and you can survive accidents easily avoided by COMPETENT drivers." "Drop the speed limits while the technology advances in the other direction--so that the scum of the earth can drive to the welfare office instead of taking the bus." I consider Charles Manson a saint compared to you evil pea-brains.

[SterlingNorth]

[Will this thread ever die?]