Radical Honesty: How would it affect your life?

[Leaper]

This Esquire article (http://www.esquire.com/print-this/honesty0707?x) discusses the author's encounter with Radical Honesty, a philosophy that puts forth the belief that it is never right or proper to lie in any personal relationship. The literal truth must always be told. "Yes, you look fat in that dress." "Yes, boss, I was planning on leaving the company to start my own business." "I don't want your mother to visit - I think she's a bitch." (The article elaborates a little more on the founder's conception.)

The article, while humorous, did make me wonder: if you practiced Radical Honesty fully in your daily life, how would things turn out? What do you think the founder would say about any problems you encountered?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

From the article:
If you're having fantasies about your wife's sister, Blanton says to tell your wife and tell her sister.
Yeah, I don't see how that could possibly go badly.

[OneCentStamp]

Yeah, I don't see how that could possibly go badly.
Remember the Seinfeld episode where Jerry suggested the menage a trois with his girlfriend and her roommate? :D

[TroubleAgain]

Oh, NOT a good idea. I'd get fired, and probably divorced!

[Telperien]

This is a joke, right? The world runs on lies, whether people like it or not.

[Telperien]

And upon actually reading the article, do we really need more assholes in the world? I don't think a dirty old man who justifies his assholery by the term of honesty (and who openly admits that he actually lies a lot) is someone we need to emulate.

[TroubleAgain]

Remember the movie Liar, Liar? Yeah.

[Enginerd]

Yeah... I'd never be able to hold a job - any job - for more than about 20 seconds.

[malkavia]

Well, it would certainly remove my job, most of my family, 90% of my friends and my husband within the first hour or two.

So yeah, I'd say it might affect me.

[cher3]

I practiced radical honesty for a few years and it didn't go too badly.

Then I turned 4.

[cbawlmer]

On the first day, I'd lose my job and everyone I know. By the end of the first week, I'm pretty sure I'd be sedated and in a straight jacket at the state mental hospital. That sort of thing goes downhill quickly.

[Chessic Sense]

I actually try to practice radical honesty. Not because I think it will turn out well, but just to test my skills at either a) rationalizing what I just said, or b) convincing the other person that they've misunderstood my true intent. Yeah, I know, I'm sick.

[OneCentStamp]

Well, it would certainly remove my job, most of my family, 90% of my friends and my husband within the first hour or two.

So yeah, I'd say it might affect me.
I can see that. :)

[Larry Mudd]

The movement was founded by a sixty-six-year-old Virginia-based psychotherapist named Brad Blanton. He says everybody would be happier if we just stopped lying. Tell the truth, all the time. This would be radical enough -- a world without fibs -- but Blanton goes further. He says we should toss out the filters between our brains and our mouths. If you think it, say it.A lot of sextagenarians stumble across Radical Honesty. The usual thing to do is get them some cholinesterase inhibitors and try to be patient with them.

Something like 15% honesty would get me murdered at home.

[Phlosphr]

Fine! Mea Culpa

I'm a chick.

[Freudian Slit]

I have to say, the article is hilarious.

I also have a secret confession.

I'm the kind of non-confrontational person who hates to be honest and in your face. But I love watching other people do it, get into fights, conflicts, watch people being rude.

Like this:
I have yet to learn that trick myself. Consider how I handled this scene at a diner a couple of blocks from my apartment.

"Everything okay?" asked our server, an Asian man with tattoos.

"Yeah, except for the coffee. I always have to order espresso here, because the espresso tastes like regular coffee. The regular coffee here is terrible. Can't you guys make stronger coffee?"

The waiter said no and walked away. My friend looked at me. "I'm embarrassed for you," he said. "And I'm embarrassed to be around you."

"I know. Me, too." I felt like a Hollywood producer who parks in handicapped spots. I ask Blanton what I should have done.

"You should have said, 'This coffee tastes like shit!' " he says, cackling.
I lack the balls (and ovaries) to do this myself, but I would love watching it, even knowing how rude and awful it was. My own moment of brutal honesty.

[burundi]

Originally posted by Teleperien
And upon actually reading the article, do we really need more assholes in the world?
I've found that whenever someone says, "I tell it like it is," or "I call a spade a spade," that's usually code for "I'm a rude, insensitive asshole."

If you practiced Radical Honesty fully in your daily life, how would things turn out?
I'm a southern (white) woman, raised by other southern women. For good or for ill, Radical Honesty is the exact 180 from how I've been taught to interact with others. If asked if a flaming bath of sulfur was uncomfortable, my first instinct would be to say, "Oh, it's fine, just a touch warm." I think if I uttered the phrase "this coffee tastes like shit" to a waiter, my head would explode.

[dangermom]

I find myself wondering how often "radically honest" people say kind, appreciative things to others? "You know, a few years ago I was having a hard time and you were really there for me. Thank you!" ...or... "I just love seeing you play music. You have a real talent and your passion really shows!" In the scene with the waiter, the guy didn't say "I love coming here because of the great pastry!" No, he only said the bad things. How honest is it to only say half of the truth?

Nah--radical honesty seems to me to be an excuse for saying nasty things. Just the newest version of making honesty an excuse for meaness. "It's a virtue that I say mean things! Really!"

But how many "honest" but mean things could we all say about one another? None of us can live up to that much scrutiny.

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is not a terrible rule to live by a lot of the time. So much of what makes us annoyed is so petty that it's not worth hurting others over, and the "honest" criticism often wounds more deeply than the original offense did.

[Telperien]

I've found that whenever someone says, "I tell it like it is," or "I call a spade a spade," that's usually code for "I'm a rude, insensitive asshole."

"And proud of it." You can be honest without being an asshole, which is apparently some big secret, since people never seem to get it.

[fessie]

Gosh, that is so fascinating.

What got me is he seemed to assume that everyone around him cared about his authentic feelings. Asserting his reality everywhere he goes isn't honesty, it's aggression. What if they felt equally empowered to reply "Who gives a rat's ass"?

OTOH, I have a hard time imagining a life where you constantly hide your actual feelings when people DO ask you a direct question. How do you ever get your needs met?

[Governor Quinn]

First off: I note that Dr. Blanton lives in a place a distance from a large population center (http://www.city-data.com/city/Stanley-Virginia.html). Somehow, this doesn't surprise me, as I imagine that, in a crowded place, there would be mobs of people out for his hide rather fast.

Second, it would be utterly destructive for my personal life if I undertook this program.

[dnooman]

I don't think that being brutally honest necessarily means that you have to be an asshole, but the two can get very similar at times. Of course someone being %100 honest wouldn't feel compelled to tell the lady at the grocery checkout "Wow, your breath smells like pig farts!" But, if asked why he recoiled in horror, he would have to answer honestly right?

"No honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat. The extra twenty pounds you're carrying make you look fat." Assuming that said person is actually overweight, the statement wouldn't really be untrue. Honest? Yes. Tactful? Not even a little bit.

Tact and diplomacy are usually regarded as traits that should be admired, however, both exercise white-lies, un-truths and flat out lies in order to make them work. A person incapable of even a small lie, would probably even be selected against naturally, having been murdered well before reaching a reproductive age.

Lies and honesty can only coexist because they both have continuums. If it was a literally black and white world with no gray area between lies and honesty, our concept of society as we know it now would absolutely fail. Maybe being "honest" in terms of being virtuous really means that petty matters of truth can be overlooked, glossed over, or even twisted as long as the big things are presented truthfully. If that's the case, then the most honest person that anyone knows, lies at least a little bit frequently. Seems contradictory doesn't it?

On a lighter note, the notion of absolute honesty is so incompatible with our societal views now, that a "Be %100 honest" thread could yield some very funny results.

"I see what you're saying, but I think I'm smarter than you, so I'm just going to discount everything you just said."

"Honey, I don't want to have sex tonight. My head feels fine, it's just that I'm not in the mood for your sweaty grunting, and feeble attempts at getting me off tonight. Find something better to do with those three minutes"

"You said that you got my order, but I don't believe that you're actually going to leave off the tomatos like I asked. Could you say it so that I know you heard me?"

"Hey buddy! Yeah we saw your play, it kinda sucked. You screwed up at least five of your lines. I'm almost embarrassed that you're my kid, all the other kids did fine. I hope you're not dumb."

"Yes I do mind cleaning out the gutters. It's Saturday. I'm not your private handyman. I make all the money in this relationship, I should get to make the rules."

Clearly, this could be just as ugly as funny. Good thing that we as a society decided that some minor forms of untruth were acceptable, just to make life livable.

[robardin]

I think this whole premise is a variant of the Cretan Paradox, as anybody who says "I never lie" is, in fact, lying.

Speaking exactly what is in your mind at all times is not "telling the (radical) truth", it's being an asocial person in human society. In other words, a jerk.

[DianaG]

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass. ;)

Seriously though, Telperien is right. The world does run on lies. Lies of the "white" or "social" variety are what enable us to co-exist with our fellow humans.

There's nothing noble about valuing "the truth" over other people's feelings, in situations where the truth is frankly inconsequential, as it usually is in everyday human interactions.

[dnooman]

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass. ;)


Not sure what you mean there.

Tact is a careful consideration of the feelings and values of another so as to create harmonious relationships with a reduced potential for conflict or offense.

Tact is a form of interpersonal diplomacy. Tact is the ability to induce change or communicate hurtful information without offending through the use of consideration, compassion, kindness, and reason.

Truth can be implemented without tact, and tact can be implemented without truth. Truth doesn't have a motive, tact, diplomacy, and common sense differ in this manner.

[Nava]

My boss already has problems understanding that when I say "there is no way we can have this ready for the 6th; the assigned programmer is on vacation, then one of the guys who signs permissions to fix stuff and his deputy are on vacation at the same time; so between that and testing and what not, it should be at least the 10th - of next month," I actually mean "no boss it is NOT going to be ready when the customer wants it, so better tell them now."

If I was more honest his head would explode.

[Captain_C]

I've actually made it my goal to never lie at work. For many situations, this involves a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. For other situations I just use a really high diction and change my tone of voice accordingly.

People will hear what they want to hear. Just make sure you always leave yourself a double-meaning in there so that the other person assumes you said what they want you to have said.

[dnooman]

Just make sure you always leave yourself a double-meaning in there so that the other person assumes you said what they want you to have said.
There is no way you can call that honesty. It might not be lying, but it is in no way completely honest.

[Sublight]

I've found that whenever someone says, "I tell it like it is," or "I call a spade a spade," that's usually code for "I'm a rude, insensitive asshole."
I have a boss who practices radical honesty, but for some reason which I can't possibly fathom*, he only does it toward people who are ranked below him or otherwise obligated to be polite to him.

*maybe I need to be more honest?

[fessie]

What about this part:

A retired man from New Hampshire -- a friend of a friend -- wrote some poems and sent them to me. His wife just died, and he's taken up poetry. He just wanted someone in publishing to read his work. A professional opinion.

I read them. I didn't like them much, but I wrote to him that I thought they were very good.

So I e-mail Blanton for the first time since our meeting and confess what I did. I write, "His wife just died, he doesn't have friends. He's kind of pathetic. I read his stuff, or skimmed it actually. I didn't like it. I thought it was boring and badly written. So I e-mailed a lie. I said I really like the poems and hope they get published. He wrote me back so excited and how it made his week and how he was about to give up on them but my e-mail gave him the stamina to keep trying."


Didn't he have a number of "honest" reactions to choose from? Couldn't he have been perfectly honest and replied "I'm actually not qualified to evaluate your writing, since I'm not a poet and I don't teach creative writing. And I honestly couldn't relate to your poem. But I'm glad you're writing poetry, it seems like a really good outlet for you."

I'm just thinking, I doubt the person asking the question really and truly cares what HE thinks, personally; the questioner just wants some reflection back from the world. Being more honest (about yourself, too) seems better than telling a flat-out lie.

Or does "Radical Honesty" mean "Initial gut reaction from an egotistical point of view"? Maybe I missed it.

If that's what it is, I think it would just start a lot of fights.

[Telperien]

Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass. ;)

Seriously though, Telperien is right. The world does run on lies. Lies of the "white" or "social" variety are what enable us to co-exist with our fellow humans.

There's nothing noble about valuing "the truth" over other people's feelings, in situations where the truth is frankly inconsequential, as it usually is in everyday human interactions.

And the woman who originally said that first sentence, of course, got away with it because she was (a) hot and (b) fictional. :D

[WhyNot]

"No honey, that dress doesn't make you look fat. The extra twenty pounds you're carrying make you look fat." Assuming that said person is actually overweight, the statement wouldn't really be untrue. Honest? Yes. Tactful? Not even a little bit.

Tact and diplomacy are usually regarded as traits that should be admired, however, both exercise white-lies, un-truths and flat out lies in order to make them work. A person incapable of even a small lie, would probably even be selected against naturally, having been murdered well before reaching a reproductive age.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Certainly it means not accepting their assumed answer list as the only possible answer, but I don't think it means outright untruth. I haven't consciously lied in....3 years now. It just means I sometimes talk more and sometimes talk less than I used to in order to avoid the traps others set up for me.

"Does this dress make me look fat?"
"It's not the most flattering choice in your closet. What about that great blue one? That makes your eyes just sparkle like no one's business!"

Let me try some of the others. I think I can reword them without any falsehood and with much more tact.

"I see what you're saying, but I think I'm smarter than you, so I'm just going to discount everything you just said."
"It's interesting to hear other points of view on this topic. I feel pretty highly educated in this area and I've arrived at different conclusions. I'd like to agree to disagree."

"Honey, I don't want to have sex tonight. My head feels fine, it's just that I'm not in the mood for your sweaty grunting, and feeble attempts at getting me off tonight. Find something better to do with those three minutes"
"No, I'm very sorry, but I don't feel like having sex tonight. How about a back rub instead?"

"You said that you got my order, but I don't believe that you're actually going to leave off the tomatos like I asked. Could you say it so that I know you heard me?"
"Would you please repeat that order back to me so I know we're on the same page?"

"Hey buddy! Yeah we saw your play, it kinda sucked. You screwed up at least five of your lines. I'm almost embarrassed that you're my kid, all the other kids did fine. I hope you're not dumb."
"Hey buddy! Yes, I saw your play. You guys looked like you were having so much fun! I noticed you had a little trouble with a few of your lines, maybe we can practice them together tomorrow so you remember them all before the next show."

"Yes I do mind cleaning out the gutters. It's Saturday. I'm not your private handyman. I make all the money in this relationship, I should get to make the rules."
"I'd rather hire someone to clean out the gutters and I'll take you out for a picnic and make-out session at the beach until all the mess is over. That's why I make the big bucks ;) , so I can hire someone else to do my dirty work while I [joking leer] do the dirty work."

So yeah, I'm not opposed to honesty, I'm opposed to being a jerk. And honestly, this radical honesty guy sounds like a jerk. Being honest doesn't mean vomiting up everything in your head, it means only verbalizing things that are true. At least, that's how I do it and manage to better my relationships instead of destroying them.

[FriarTed]

From the article:

Yeah, I don't see how that could possibly go badly.


99% of the time, it will.

But there's that 1% chance that'll be magic! :D

[Eonwe]

First, being 100% honest does not require a person to say everything s/he is thinking all of the time.

Second, there are likely many very nice things that we don't say but would if we were all 100% honest.

But mainly, there's a larger issue here, which is, "what are people actually saying when they ask a question?"

If a wife says, "does this dress make me look fat?" she might be saying:

"Should I wear this out tonight, or should I try something else?"

or . . .

"affirm my beauty, because I'm feeling a little insecure today."

or any number of other things. Part of interaction with other people is understanding the meaning behind words and responding appropriately.

In the first case, a response of (if you think the dress is unflattering to her), "that's not a bad dress, why not try that other one tonight, I really like that one," is a response that answers the question she was really asking in an honest yet tactful way. In the second case, a response of, "you look lovely," is honest, because she wasn't asking for an objective response in the first place, she wanted you to tell her she was beautiful.

[Anaamika]

You can put me in with the people who think this is crazy. I thought being nice to each other was one of the veneers of civilization? Makes the world go around - I mean with this sort of thing in place we'd all just go around grunting at each other.

[dangermom]

Exactly, WhyNot and Eonwe. I don't think that this guy is really being all that honest, and I don't think that honesty requires saying everything that comes into my head. My thoughts just aren't that diamond-like. In fact, I've been learning the wonderful value of keeping my mouth shut (over petty, momentary annoyances) over the past few years, and it's improved my life.

I do try to be honest; I don't like lying, and I don't spend my days lying to everyone I know. But I also don't like being unkind. People could be pretty unkind to me, and they mostly aren't.

[twickster]

I find myself wondering how often "radically honest" people say kind, appreciative things to others? "You know, a few years ago I was having a hard time and you were really there for me. Thank you!" ...or... "I just love seeing you play music. You have a real talent and your passion really shows!" In the scene with the waiter, the guy didn't say "I love coming here because of the great pastry!" No, he only said the bad things. How honest is it to only say half of the truth?
Excellent point!

twicks, who's already way too honest for her own good

[Larry Mudd]

If a wife says, "does this dress make me look fat?" she might be saying:

"Should I wear this out tonight, or should I try something else?"

or . . .

"affirm my beauty, because I'm feeling a little insecure today."Always #2, in my experience.

"Is my bum getting bigger?" always seems to call for a simple negative. When the expected response is at variance with reality, it can make me a bit uncomfortable after the 23rd or so iteration. Woe unto him that deviates from the script! When the frequency of this question increases in its vociferousness, do not make the mistake of thinking she may actually be looking for confirmation of a growing suspicion, after all. Even neutral, non-committal responses are dangerous.

Even the most carefully-crafted, gentle and diplomatic approach to an honest answer can cause an upset: "You've got a hot bod, but if you're really preoccupied with the size of your bum, maybe we can both try to work together to make some changes to our diet and exercise routine. I'm sure I could use a little toning up." "So you're saying my ass is fat?" :mad: Ouff.

Similarly, any call for a comment on make-up application should not be mistaken for an invitation to editorialize. Just say it looks great. Iridescent eye shadow for the office? As long as she likes it, affirm only that she looks as cute as hell. Verb. sap.

[WhyNot]

Even the most carefully-crafted, gentle and diplomatic approach to an honest answer can cause an upset: "You've got a hot bod, but if you're really preoccupied with the size of your bum, maybe we can both try to work together to make some changes to our diet and exercise routine. I'm sure I could use a little toning up." "So you're saying my ass is fat?" :mad: Ouff.

See, natural selection has taken care of this problem for me. I don't tend to retain people like this as friends. A couple of times of me not playing into their drama, and they decide to find other friends. And so we both win. My friends have "evolved" as it were, into the niche I set up for them, and this behavior is self-selected against. As is my behavior not selected for in their friendships.

[Larry Mudd]

I don't tend to retain people like this as friends. A couple of times of me not playing into their drama, and they decide to find other friends.Ah, yeah - I would probably tire of that sort of thing from friends or acquaintances pretty quickly. It's a small thing and very easily overlooked/adapted to in someone that you're pathetically in love with, though. The very sun shines out of that ass, regardless of any delicacy required with regard to the topic of its relative dimensions. :)

[Steve MB]

The thread reminds me of a Spider Robinson story ("Satan's Children", IIRC) in which someone develops a drug that causes people to be completely honest (the drug itself isn't addictive, but honesty is, once the initial hurdles are overcome and the initial consequences shake out).

The "double meaning" bit reminds me of a Randall Garrett (IIRC) story "The Best Policy" in which a captured human being questioned under a lie detector by aliens discovers that technically true statements don't register as lies (e.g. "We are capable of mentally controlling certain physical energies which transport us across space.").

[Enginerd]

My boss already has problems understanding that when I say "there is no way we can have this ready for the 6th; the assigned programmer is on vacation, then one of the guys who signs permissions to fix stuff and his deputy are on vacation at the same time; so between that and testing and what not, it should be at least the 10th - of next month," I actually mean "no boss it is NOT going to be ready when the customer wants it, so better tell them now."

If I was more honest his head would explode.
So Nava, it's the sixth today. Is it ready? The customer is coming to pick it up at 3:00.