Crap. I Think Someone is Trying to Seduce Me.

[olivesmarch4th]

And we're both married.

And I'm so NOT going to cheat on my husband.

Ok, it's like this. The husband and I live in an apartment complex, we have a neighbor about our age who he became friendly with while I was in Mexico. I met him when I came back--nice guy, gave my husband a ride to the bus-stop one day when it was raining. We probably talked for two hours the first day he came over to my apartment. He seemed really super sort of strangely friendly (offered to starch my pants for me before a job interview?), and was poking around in my house a lot, and asking questions about my height and weight my pale skin and comparing me to his wife, whom I've never met.

But we had an interesting conversation, and I figured maybe he was just sort of a touchy-feely person by nature, and when he left that day, I felt pretty good about the new friendship.

Two weeks pass.

Today he knocked on my door to return a book, asking me why I haven't come to visit him. I told him I was incredibly shy, which is true. I was already nervous as heck just talking to the guy, simply because he is a human being.

He sits down, and some very awkward (for me, at least) conversation follows. He is worried about me all alone while my husband is at work. He wants me to come by while his wife is not home. I suggest things we (the four of us) can do together, but he says his wife isn't interested in socializing and he isn't available on weekends. He just thinks we should visit each other during the day, while we're bored and lonely.

Then he says, ''Look at how cute you are without your makeup!'' Most women can't get away with that, yadda yadda.

Then he wants to put his name in my new cellphone--but warns me I should enter it under a girl's name, so my husband won't get mad. (Of course I did not do this.)
Then he comes over and stands real close to me while I enter his name in. I made some excuse like I have to call my Mom, because I was really uncomfortable at that point. He finally left, but he hugged me and pulled me real close and insisted I am free to stop by any time his wife's car isn't in the front lot.

He called me almost immediately after he left to ask me how to spell my name.

Now, I haven't been married long, and I've never had anything like this happen before. I'm not sure if I'm just overreacting and assuming things, or if this guy really is trying to push things beyond friendship. He'll remark that I'm attractive and then mention his wife in the same breath--it's very confusing.

I just wanted a friend. I am really upset about this, and not sure what I should say to my husband. I already IMed him today because the whole experience left me stressed out, but didn't go into details (he is NOT the jealous type.)

I am really shaken up right now. I have PTSD and I don't handle unwanted sexual advances in the most rational and healthy way. Things felt out of control and I was afraid. He is a lot bigger than me, and I find that really intimidating.

I know, rationally, that I am going to have to confront this issue probably pretty soon, and I resent that, a lot. The guy lives right next door, there's really no way to ever avoid him, and if he really doesn't mean anything by his behavior, I would feel bad for implying he would cheat on his wife. On the other hand, if he actually ever does make a really obvious physical move, it is going to be pretty traumatic for me. I don't want it to get to that point.

How does one deal with these sort of situations?

Comfort, Advice solicited. In whatever order you prefer. :)

[Ellen Cherry]

I think he was coming on to you, and waiting for signals that you were interested. If you keep putting out the "not interested" vibe, I hope he'll get the message and all the bad situations you're imagining will never materialize.

I hate it when this happens. It makes me furious.

[Annie-Xmas]

Flat out tell him NO. Ain't gonna happen. No way no how. Never.

If he continues, tell your husband and his wife. If he still continues, tell the police. Any attention after "NO" is grounds for a stalking complaint.

DO NOT TRY TO LET HIM DOWN EASY. Make sure he is told from the get-go NO.

[olivesmarch4th]

I hate it when this happens. It makes me furious.

Seriously. I totally thought I had a new friend!

[Anaamika]

Yes, don't give him signals. Guys like this don't get it. Don't let him in next time, absolutely not. You don't have to be mean about it if you can't get your gumption up. Do you have a chain? Just put the chain on next time he comes to the door, and open the door with the chain on. Smile nicely and say "I'm sorry, I'm busy and I can't chat." Repeat as necessary. Don't sit and chat with him. Make your chats brief. Always have something to do.

And tell your husband!

[Beadalin]

If he tries any physical contact with you again (offering a hug or whatever), you might try saying something like, "Your hug last time really caught me by surprise. I'm really not comfortable being touched."

I don't think you're misinterpreting, either. The thing about keeping his phone number a secret from your husband, and telling you to come over as long as his wife isn't there -- that's creeptastic. The time to set firm boundaries is now, before he thinks he's getting away with something.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
He called me almost immediately after he left to ask me how to spell my name.
<snip>

Do you have a name that's difficult to spell? It shouldn't matter exactly how it's spelled, anyway, it's not like he's writing up a legal document for you or mailing you a formal invitation or something.

This is actually one of my favorite excuses when a girl gives me her phone number, but I've forgotten her name. "How do you spell your name?", I'll say after I put the number in my phone. It worked great many times, until I asked a gal who gave me a dirty look and replied, "K - I - M". :smack:

[Annie-Xmas]

Yes, don't give him signals. Guys like this don't get it. Don't let him in next time, absolutely not. You don't have to be mean about it if you can't get your gumption up. Do you have a chain? Just put the chain on next time he comes to the door, and open the door with the chain on. Smile nicely and say "I'm sorry, I'm busy and I can't chat." Repeat as necessary. Don't sit and chat with him. Make your chats brief. Always have something to do.

And tell your husband!

Don't be mean about it, but as I posted above be direct about it. Don't say "I'm busy." Say "I don't want you in here when my husband is not home.." Don't make excuses. Don't try to be nice or he'll think you're playing games. Just keep saying NO. You don't owe him any excuses, reasons, or explanations.

[TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW]

I'm a guy that thinks that most women are too uptight about stuff like this and too many women get "creeped out" by guys that are just being nice. And with that established, I think this behavior is CREEPY AS FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

The whole repeated, "but..heh heh...uhh, just not when my WIFE'S around" thing tips it way, way over into creepazoid territory. As well as the pointed compliments and the whole "sneak around" aspect.

The only real explanation (not defense, but explanation) is that most guys are really bad about mistaking/misinterpreting simple friendliness on the part of women for sexual interest - so perfectly companionable conversation (you mentioned that you guys talked for hours the first time you met) becomes "sparks" on his end. It's something that I catch myself doing every now and then - I'll convince myself that a cute co-worker "totally has a crush on me" when she's probably just being friendly. It's just a guy ape-brain thing.

[Anaamika]

Don't be mean about it, but as I posted above be direct about it. Don't say "I'm busy." Say "I don't want you in here when my husband is not home.." Don't make excuses. Don't try to be nice or he'll think you're playing games. Just keep saying NO. You don't owe him any excuses, reasons, or explanations.
I could probably do this, and you could do this, but I wasn't sure if the OP felt she could do this:

I am really shaken up right now. I have PTSD and I don't handle unwanted sexual advances in the most rational and healthy way. Things felt out of control and I was afraid. He is a lot bigger than me, and I find that really intimidating.


I thought it might be a bit too much for her. I would recommend the firm way, too, but that's not always that easy IRL.

[Kalhoun]

It's possible you're misinterpreting things, but I doubt it. Don't answer the door when you're home alone. Talk about your husband incessantly when you have to run into him. Get to know his wife and casually mention "that day X came by when Mr. Olives hadn't come home from work yet." (I bet this isn't the first time.) Mention your sister who is leaving that sleaze-bag cheating husband of hers and he's got it coming, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe once he comes back to reality there will still be a friendship component to salvage.

But I doubt it.

[Contrapuntal]

That guy is banging on you like Charlie Watts. Tell him no. And tell your husband.

[Cat Fight]

Not sure about rational advice, but if it were me I'd be nice but distant, and definitely always rushing to meet someone/get groceries/return an e-mail. And my husband's name would always be on my lips. 'Hi, how's it going? Sorry, [husband]'s coming home soon and I've got to get dinner started. But like I said, we'd love to have you and [wife] over sometime,' that sort of thing. If he makes a move, that's the time to be blunt. And if you have trouble being rude, as so many women do in the face of unwanted advances, tell him your husband is the jealous type.

And of he's really so worried about you being home alone, tell him you're getting a German Shepherd.

[gigi]

I'm not sure if I'm just overreacting and assuming things, or if this guy really is trying to push things beyond friendship. He'll remark that I'm attractive and then mention his wife in the same breath--it's very confusing.
I just wanted a friend. I am really upset about this, and not sure what I should say to my husband. I'm sorry to hear you are upset; if you're anything like me you have that twisted, cold feeling in your belly. I HATE THAT. The bolded part above really makes me grrrr; he has an out if you confront him. Please remember that you are the reasonable straight-up one here, even if you feel shaky, and he is the one playing games.

It sucks to have to be in this situation.

[«Ðëëp¤F®ïêd»™]

This sounds creepy. He is not interested in friendship or there would be no need for secrets. Establish your boundaries and be very direct. If after the next couple of visits he doesn't seem to get the picture, tell your husband.
To be honest, as a married (well, almost) guy, I would want Lady Fried to tell me right away if something like this was happening. Not so
I could get all huffy and macho but so I could keep an eye on the situation and help comfort her.

[Nava]

"If" he makes a move? He's already made a move... making a move isn't restricted to "I'm dying to test drive your bed."

Tell your husband and, unless you two decide to never have contact with the neighbor again, make sure to meet his wife. You don't have to tell her, but you need to know her and need her to know you.

[Scuba_Ben]

In addition to everything else said above, I suggest never be alone with this person. Even if you do nothing else, making sure Mr Olives is always in the same room with you when this neighbor comes over should do wonders for his conduct.

He's going to try to keep this a secret from your husband. I suggest he should never have such a chance again.

[olivesmarch4th]

Do you have a name that's difficult to spell?

My name is Christy. Some people spell it Kristie, I guess. It seems like a dumb reason to call someone, unless of course, you're trying to hook up.

I appreciate the responses here, telling me I am not crazy. My husband and I are going to discuss this tonight. I'm not sure how he will react overall, because this hasn't happened before--but chances are he'll be calm and rational about it, as he is about everything else.

I think unfortunately it is true that I am going to have to be blunt about this. I'm afraid he may have taken my awkward silences for ambivalence. I am not ambivalent. I think I'd rather chew off my left pinky than run into this guy again. It's the guilt that makes things difficult--I hate confrontation.

[Annie-Xmas]

I think unfortunately it is true that I am going to have to be blunt about this. I'm afraid he may have taken my awkward silences for ambivalence. I am not ambivalent. I think I'd rather chew off my left pinky than run into this guy again. It's the guilt that makes things difficult--I hate confrontation.

And just whaqt do you have to feel guilty about? You have done nothing wrong.

If everyone learned to asked directly and to take no for an answer, the world would run a lot smoother. He is not doing the first, so he better jolly well do the second. Do not get into a discussion or an argument. Say NO. If he questions you, ask "Which part of NO don't you understand? The N or the O?"

[Tapiotar]

Don't be mean about it, but as I posted above be direct about it. Don't say "I'm busy." Say "I don't want you in here when my husband is not home.." Don't make excuses. Don't try to be nice or he'll think you're playing games. Just keep saying NO. You don't owe him any excuses, reasons, or explanations.

Ditto this advice. The man has gone two steps beyond hinting that he'd like an affair into scary creepiness. Don't let him into your apartment. I hope you have a peephole, so you don't open your door to him. When he said he was worried about you being alone when your husband's at work, that sent up a serious red flag danger warning.

[Quartz]

Or, next time, you could open the door nude and painted with pseudo-mystic symbols with a big knife in your hand and say, "I'm sorry, but only virgins are suitable sacrifices." :D

[Mikemike2]

Telling you to put his phone number in your cell and then change his name so you husband wouldn't find it is sooo creepy and offensive. The one thing that good realtionships have in common is trust, and he is telling you to break it. He is a troublemaker. Given your reluctance to cofront him, maybe you husband should do it.

[SomeUserName]

Have you or your husband actually met his wife? It almost sounds as he is making it up to make you feel more comfortable or easier to approach.

If you have then his mention of only stopping over when his wife is gone is a sign that he wants to be more than friends. Why would you hide a relationship with a "friend" from your spouse?

[jackelope]

I suggest you tell your husband all of this. For one thing, you haven't done anything wrong, and for another, if you DON'T tell him now, and he later finds out what's going on, he'll want to know why you didn't tell him. If you're not sure what's going on, then let him be your measuring rod; sharing your impressions with someone for advice (as you've done here on the SDMB) can help make a confusing situation come into focus.

Yes, the neighbor's behavior is offensive. And I think your husband needs to be included in the situation.

[Annie-Xmas]

One word of cauton: Do not be alone with this creep and under no circumstances get in a car with only him. I don't care if you are bleeding and he offers to take you to the hospital. He is obviously trying to gain control over you, and being alone in a car with him would be the ultimate in control.

[lisacurl]

I think unfortunately it is true that I am going to have to be blunt about this. I'm afraid he may have taken my awkward silences for ambivalence. I am not ambivalent. I think I'd rather chew off my left pinky than run into this guy again. It's the guilt that makes things difficult--I hate confrontation.
You don't owe him a long explanation or a chance to air his feelings. "I'm sorry, your behavior has made me uncomfortable." ::close door::

[Lionne]

You know that old saying, "give them an inch and they'll take a mile"? That's what I'm thinking of. Don't give him that inch...don't leave any doubt as to how uncomfortable he makes you feel.

I'd wager that he knows just how distressed he was making you...especially after you told him straight out you are 'incredibly shy.' He probably gets off on that.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

I'm a guy that thinks that most women are too uptight about stuff like this and too many women get "creeped out" by guys that are just being nice. And with that established, I think this behavior is CREEPY AS FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

The whole repeated, "but..heh heh...uhh, just not when my WIFE'S around" thing tips it way, way over into creepazoid territory. As well as the pointed compliments and the whole "sneak around" aspect.

.

Then on the other hand, his offer to starch her trousers--worthy of a Woody Allen story in the New Yorker--certainly lends his campaign a certain je ne sais quoi.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think unfortunately it is true that I am going to have to be blunt about this. I'm afraid he may have taken my awkward silences for ambivalence. I am not ambivalent. I think I'd rather chew off my left pinky than run into this guy again. It's the guilt that makes things difficult--I hate confrontation.
Women get themselves stuck in so many bad situations because of this. They don't want to be "rude" or confrontational. They want to find "nice" way to get out of these corners.

The thing is, the confrontation has already started. He was rude first. He hasn't acted like a friend. He's made a number of requests which are bang out of line and avoiding a direct confrontation will only prolong the unpleasantness. You don't want to end up in a situation where you're always having to check for this dude in the hallway or think of excuses for avoiding his phonecalls.

Telling your husband is the right first step. I think the next step would be to tell him that you're not comfortable having him over when your husband isn't home. Don't debate it ith him, just tell him that's how it's going to be and that's that. Don't let him in. Close the door in his face if you have to (it wouldn't be rude, it would be a RESPONSE to rudeness. Try to bear that in mind).

You're not imagining things. This guy might as well be wearing a T-shirt that says "I want to set up something on the side for when my wife isn't home." You probably aren't the first woman he's tried this with. I bet if you told him you were going to talk to his wife, he'd leave you alone completely.

Maybe you could let your husband talk to the guy. I've done that once or twice when my wife has gotten a similar hustle from other guys. It was very effective.

[TroubleAgain]

I'd probably say something like this next time he tries to come over when Mr. Olives isn't home--"I'm sorry, but I really don't like having men who aren't relatives over to visit when Mr. Olives isn't here. It's not that he doesn't trust me, but I don't even like to give the appearance of the possibilty of misconduct."

[olivesmarch4th]

The thing is, the confrontation has already started. He was rude first. He hasn't acted like a friend.

I really appreciate this, because I wasn't thinking about it like that. But you're right. :(

Maybe you could let your husband talk to the guy. I've done that once or twice when my wife has gotten a similar hustle from other guys. It was very effective.

Just out of curiosity, what did you say/do in these situations?

[Ermes Marana]

Once a guy is pulling you in and hugging you tightly, telling you how attractive you are, having long conversations with you, and telling you to hide the relationship from your husband, he not only is looking for more than friendship, he thinks he is already well on the way.

He is also well aware of his size and dominance, and feels that you are shy and easily dominated.


It is precisely because you are shy and nice that you have to be MORE clear. The guy will not be inclined to take you seriously because he feels he dominates you. Even if you think you clearly told him no, he will shrug it off and try to continue as things are going. You should probably not have him over to your apartment any more, and most importantly you shouldn't let him touch you any more.

[Ermes Marana]

I'd probably say something like this next time he tries to come over when Mr. Olives isn't home--"I'm sorry, but I really don't like having men who aren't relatives over to visit when Mr. Olives isn't here. It's not that he doesn't trust me, but I don't even like to give the appearance of the possibilty of misconduct."



This would be one of the worst things to say. It implies that she is open to the relationship, if only if that pesky husband wasn't jealous.

[Anaamika]

Then on the other hand, his offer to starch her trousers--worthy of a Woody Allen story in the New Yorker--certainly lends his campaign a certain je ne sais quoi.
I know, it sounds like a reallly weird euphemism. "Come on baby, lemme starch your trousers." winkwinknudgenudge

[sandra_nz]

Yuck. What a creep. You have every right to feel annoyed, angered even. His behaviour is not acceptable.

But please, don't feel guilty. You have done absolutely nothing wrong. I hope these responses to your post help you realise that.

[olivesmarch4th]

Once a guy is pulling you in and hugging you tightly, telling you how attractive you are, having long conversations with you, and telling you to hide the relationship from your husband, he not only is looking for more than friendship, he thinks he is already well on the way.

Okay, your reply is totally freaking me out.

I just don't understand why he won't take the hint. I mention my husband all the time. If this guy suggests we do something together, I say, ''Oh, that would be fun. Let me talk to my husband and see if he's interested.'' When he suggested I enter his name under someone else's, I looked at him like he was nuts and said, ''What? No way. My husband trusts me. We don't have that kind of a relationship.''

Damn it. Just damn it. Now I have two people lurking around the complex I want nothing to do with--this guy, and that damned Jehovah's Witness evangelist lady I chatted with one day. I'm such a pushover.

[sandra_nz]

He won't take the hint because he doesn't want to. It's all about him, sounds like you handled the situation perfectly fine. Nothing you've done has brought this on.

[olivesmarch4th]

I hope these responses to your post help you realise that.

They have. They really have. Thanks sandra. Thanks everyone. I thought there might be room for ambiguity, but, I guess, no.

*note to self*: putting the word ''seduce'' in the title of a thread yields significant results.

[Scuba_Ben]

Damn it. Just damn it. Now I have two people lurking around the complex I want nothing to do with--this guy, and that damned Jehovah's Witness evangelist lady I chatted with one day. I'm such a pushover.Try to introduce them to each other!

d&r

[Ermes Marana]

I just don't understand why he won't take the hint. I mention my husband all the time. If this guy suggests we do something together, I say, ''Oh, that would be fun. Let me talk to my husband and see if he's interested.''




He won't take the hint because you are shy and nice, and he feels dominance over you.

You haven't done anything wrong. He understands what you are saying, and if you were a more dominant person he would likely have backed off already.

But the unfortunate reality is that you will not be able to handle the situation the way a more dominant person would. You will have to be much more clear before he will begin to take it seriously.

[Annie-Xmas]

Just out of curiosity, what did you say/do in these situations?

Probably something along the lines of "If I ever hear from my wife again that you are trying to fuck with her, I will push nails into every opening in your body." Sometimes being subtle doesn't work.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Probably something along the lines of "If I ever hear from my wife again that you are trying to fuck with her, I will push nails into every opening in your body." Sometimes being subtle doesn't work.
Not quite that confrontational, more along the lines of, "This is ____'s husband. She wants you to leave her alone. It's never going to happen. Don't call her anymore, don't wait around for her at her job, just move on with your life and we won't have any problems."

This has happened maybe twice. My wife is another person who loathes confrontation and doesn't know how to tell somebody to fuck off. I find that these kinds of guys are not interested in actually fighting over a woman and just hearing a man tell them to get lost is enough to scare them off. It wasn't necessary for me to physically threaten them, just letting them know I was aware of them seemed to be enough.

[Annie-Xmas]

The above line was said to an asshole ex-co-worker by a nice co-worker's husband. The ex-co-worker was a total ass. I have always loved the line.

[olivesmarch4th]

The above line was said to an asshole ex-co-worker by a nice co-worker's husband. The ex-co-worker was a total ass. I have always loved the line.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous line. It's just that my husband is 5'7'' and 140 pounds sopping wet. He is also one of the least aggressive people in all of creation.Diogenes response seems more suitable, but when Mr. Olives gets home tonight, we'll approach the issue together to figure out the best course of action.

But this thread has made it pretty clear that going over to his house to try to be friendly would be pretty fucking stupid. I'll make sure we're not alone in any enclosed spaces ever again, thankyouverymuch.

BTW, Annie, I like your style. ;)

[Fish]

Am I the only one who says, "Call on the weekend when he won't be home... but his wife will. Talk to her. Tell this woman what her creep of a husband is up to."

The neighbor-husband is obviously not above deception and lies. At some point you'll come up as a topic of conversation and he may have the opportunity to twist it somehow: "Why don't I like that woman next door? Well, honey, I didn't want to tell you this, but she was hitting on me!"

Call when the guy will not be home — or better yet, go next door with your husband and knock on the door. (A phone call leaves a caller ID trace and the guy will know you tried to call.) Introduce yourselves to the wife, make friends, let her know what's going on. She deserves to know what he's up to.

[olivesmarch4th]

The neighbor-husband is obviously not above deception and lies. At some point you'll come up as a topic of conversation and he may have the opportunity to twist it somehow: "Why don't I like that woman next door? Well, honey, I didn't want to tell you this, but she was hitting on me!"

I worry about this. I don't want a fight. But I'm worried if I call her and tell her, she won't believe me, and will want to fight anyways. I could easily see her confronting him, and him convincing her that I was lying. Then I'd have an enemy. I don't want enemies. I'm a lover, not a fighter!

[Mtgman]

I recommend seducing his wife. You already know he won't be home on weekends. The obvious friendship between you and her should dissuade him from trying to go after you anymore and karma bites him in the ass. It's a win-win with an option to go win-win-win if you let your husband in on the deal.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Kalhoun]

Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous line. It's just that my husband is 5'7'' and 140 pounds sopping wet. He is also one of the least aggressive people in all of creation.Diogenes response seems more suitable, but when Mr. Olives gets home tonight, we'll approach the issue together to figure out the best course of action.

But this thread has made it pretty clear that going over to his house to try to be friendly would be pretty fucking stupid. I'll make sure we're not alone in any enclosed spaces ever again, thankyouverymuch.

BTW, Annie, I like your style. ;)
My husband is about 5'9", but has a...presence...about him. When we were first living together, I had a neighbor who would be around when we were sitting outside on hot summer days. He worked at a dry cleaners and said he'd do my drycleaning for free (awesome!). So a couple times, he'd stop by, pick up the dry cleaning, and then bring it back the next day.

So one day, Mr. K didn't lock the door on his way out and I'm sitting in my robe getting ready for work and Dry Cleaner Dude is standing in my doorway with my dry cleaning telling me what he wants to do to my body.

Now, I usually don't scare easily, but there was no way out, I didn't have a phone, and I was about half this guy's size. I just played it cool and told him to leave the stuff on the table and lock the door on the way out (he complied).

I told Mr. K that evening, and he went over to the guy's work and had a talk with him. He told the guy that if he ever so much as looked at me again, it would be the last thing he would ever see.

Never heard from or saw the guy again.

[maggenpye]

Telling the wife could escalate the problem - whether or not she believes you (probably moreso if she does).

Your husband sounds supportive and you seem to have a great relationship with him. Work to your strengths.Discuss it with him - tell him especially how you feel physically overwhelmed and dominated by the nasty neighbour. Not that he's threatening you, but that his sheer size is intimidating.

Between you and your husband, hash out what particular things you found off about the neighbour; The touching, the wish for secrecy, everything that has been identified here as manipulation. Express your disappoitnment that you wanted a friend and seem to have gained... something else.

Whatever his intentions were, your neighbours actions are unacceptable to you.

You have a right to feel safe in your own home. The neighbour is taking that from you.

I don't have a husband, so when this happened to me, I had to confront the 'friend' myself. I was terrified, he was a lot bigger than me and had spent a week ignoring every signal from subtle to, "I'm just not interested."
I was so scared that I came across as angry.
He cried.
I felt like crap.
But he's never contacted me again and I feel really good about that.

[TroubleAgain]

This would be one of the worst things to say. It implies that she is open to the relationship, if only if that pesky husband wasn't jealous.


You think so? I look at it as saying "not only am I not interested, but I don't even want anyone to think I *might* be interested in you!"

[beanpod]

As I read your OP, I was thinking "yeah, creepy dude's hitting on her," and then I read that he gathered you into a hug? WTF? After you'd been sending "I'm shy, go away," signals? That's not just creepy, or clueless, that seems like a power-play to me. I would say it's unbelievable, but of course it is. Douchebags abound. Sorry you found one.

I don't want to add to your worries, but I really hope you're careful around this guy. Admittedly, the simpler explanation is probably that he's just a pathetic sleeze-bag, but I hope you take measures to protect yourself around him.

I don't want a fight. But I'm worried if I call her and tell her, she won't believe me, and will want to fight anyways. I could easily see her confronting him, and him convincing her that I was lying. Then I'd have an enemy. I don't want enemies. I'm a lover, not a fighter!

I understand this, since I've been dealing with shyness myself, especially since he's right next door to you. But if I were you, I'd already consider myself to have an enemy--him. He suggested you lie to your husband, visit when his wife wasn't home, talked about how much he liked your appearance to the point of making you very uncomfortable, and physically intimidated you. However you and your husband decide to do it, I think you need to Shut Him Down. Firmly. Soon. And remember that you have every right to do so.

It's not fair that you'd have to deal with the ramifications, especially since assholes have the upper hand in fights because they have no qualms about being assholes.

[Autolycus]

You're not a push-over! You're doing the right thing and you're doing great!

[TokyoBayer]

As pointed out above, unfortunately you don't have a friend, you have someone who is trying to seduce you.

I used to hang around bars a lot, and met a far share of scum, who would try things like this with married women. Not cool.

When I was living in the States with my ex-wife, before we were married, there was a guy in her English as a second language who tried similar shit on her. She had problems getting him to stop so I went to where he worked and told him that he was never to talk to her again.

There's a lot a healthy people out there to become friends with, no need to hang around with the fucked up ones.

[maggenpye]

Edited because this reply was far too late, the conversation has moved on.

[Count Blucher]

"Are there no air-horns? Are there no canisters of mace...?"

Sorry. It was either post that or the wishful conversation of:

"Awww! That was So Sweet of you to think of me! You know, I've been thinking of you too..."

<hard kick to balls>

"And that's just foreplay. Now, be a good little boy and go home to your wifey, because if I have to have a talk with her, she'll call this foreplay too. And when her lawyer's done with you, you'll have to untie a draw-string to take a crap. Umm-kay, Lover Boy...?"

[ILovCoffee]

He won't take the hint because you are shy and nice, and he feels dominance over you.

You haven't done anything wrong. He understands what you are saying, and if you were a more dominant person he would likely have backed off already.

But the unfortunate reality is that you will not be able to handle the situation the way a more dominant person would. You will have to be much more clear before he will begin to take it seriously.

Clear as in a swift hard kick to the nuts with a simutaneous smash over the head with a bottle and a couple of kicks to the kidneys as he is on the ground writhing in agony. Seriously! Men this intent on trying to score in the face of your discomfort (self declared painful shyness) will probably attempt to "close the deal" the next opportunity. . . . . Can you tell I had something similar happen to me?
Short of taking the offensive to make it clear--1) tell the hubbie, 2) tell the wife (if there is one) together after you (or hubbie) sound her out, 3) have hubbie tell him to consider you in no possible way interested and perhaps that maybe reporting him as a possible sexual predator to the police is in the near future.

[BrassyPhrase]

I'd like to suggest a book to you, olives and really to every woman and some guys here to kinda get what it's like. The book is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. He's some safety security guard type to the stars, but the book makes incredible sense.

His three big points (that I took away from it)

1. Listen to your instincts. You have them for a reason.
2. Never be afraid to be a 'bitch'--it's YOUR safety that needs to come first.
3. Any actual good guy will understand caution.

Very good book, I buy and give copies of it to other women all the time.

He creeped you out--Be firm, even if he acts all "how could you THINK that!--and he will leave you alone if he isn't a jackass.

If he is? It's PO-leece time.

Good luck and stay strong.


(I'd like to point out that I love guys, usually relate to them very well, and have few that were scary or dangerous to deal with. But I have had a few. And it's the one of the worst scary feelings in the world.)

[Rysdad]

That guy is banging on you like Charlie Watts. Tell him no. And tell your husband. (bolding mine)

If you were my wife, this is all it would take.

[ivylass]

I'd like to suggest a book to you, olives and really to every woman and some guys here to kinda get what it's like. The book is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. He's some safety security guard type to the stars, but the book makes incredible sense.

You know, this is the third time I've come across mention of this book. The first time was re-reading a TWoP recap of Joan of Arcadia from 2003, the second was watching Oprah while I was working out at the gym, and she was interviewing a woman who was attacked by another woman while she (the victim) was pregnant.

I think I need to go get that book for my daughter. So many women are afraid of appearing rude, or mean, or fear they are blowing things out of proportion.

Trust your instincts, and do not EVER be alone with this guy. He is so totally not reading your NO signals, and I fear that things may escalate if he is not shut down immediately.

May I also submit that "seduce" is too kind of a word here? He's not trying to sweep you off your feet, court you with roses and chocolates. This guy sounds dangerous. Be very careful.

[BrassyPhrase]

You know, this is the third time I've come across mention of this book. <snip>
I think I need to go get that book for my daughter. So many women are afraid of appearing rude, or mean, or fear they are blowing things out of proportion.

Trust your instincts, and do not EVER be alone with this guy. He is so totally not reading your NO signals, and I fear that things may escalate if he is not shut down immediately.

<snip>

Be very careful.

I think that book actually saved my life one night. I was working at a store, walked out to a distant parking space to get in my car. A guy approached me. I would've not talked to ANY man in a parking lot but was still in the mindset of being a person 'taking care of of a customer'.

Him: I have a problem with my car, can you help me?
me: <thinking of jumping a bad battery and walking closer> Sure, what do you need, a jump? <older car>
him: no I need you to to sit inside and hold the door button down so it will lock


I've never been that naive, but still, I backed away from him and was very "get away from me, NOW"

Him: oh, you aren't going to help me? You're mean!

me: Get away from from me, there are men in there<pointing at the store>
that will help you with your car.

him: So you're a mean bitch?

me: Yes I am!

Got in my car and screeched out.

Cried and freaked the whole way home.


But not afraid of seeming like a bitch. :) No woman should in situations like that.


:)

[TokyoBayer]

That is freaky. Damn, it can be a scary world out there at times. :mad:

[olivesmarch4th]

Thanks everybody. I talked to my husband about it--he agreed that guy's behavior was very sketchy, and says I don't have to play nice out of guilt. He told me to trust my instincts. I'm not answering the door any more, and Mr. Olives plans on confronting him soon. My husband is a man who is slow to react--but the more time passes, the more it's starting to get under his skin. I'm glad he's got my back on this. I would not want to deal with it by myself.

ETA: Thanks for a book recommendation, Brassy. I'd probably be a prime candidate for that kind of manipulation. *shudders*

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Gah. GAH!!

I'm too late to this party to do more than second what the other folks have said about trusting your instincts, to commend you on the great guy you married and who is taking good care of you, and to ask if you'll please come back and report what happens when Mr. Olives tells the guy to get lost.

God, I hate creeps like that.

[Rilchiam]

Probably something along the lines of "If I ever hear from my wife again that you are trying to fuck with her, I will push nails into every opening in your body." Sometimes being subtle doesn't work.

Mr. Rilch to ex-friend: "You're one grope away from getting a titanium driver to the head."

And I third the recommendation of The Gift of Fear.

[Zambini57]

Maybe just say something like " I can't talk to you anymore while my husband is not around. He can be VERY jealous, and I don't want THAT to happen AGAIN."

-Implied threat.

-Husband doesn't have to confront personally, which could lead to all types of complications. Especially since he lives right next door. If it was co-worker who lived far away, then a confrontation by your husband while he picked you up from work would be OK.

-Doesn't humiliate the guy, which could also be dangerous.

[Rilchiam]

But if her husband's not jealous, and in fact, even if he is, that's still no one else's business. Why slander him when it's the other guy who's out of line?

[Muffin]

Call animal control -- they will trap him and either find him a good home or else euthanise him.

[PunditLisa]

I think avoiding him and not answering your door are good plans. If he confronts you as to why you won't answer the door/phone, as I'm sure he will because he seems very pushy, I'd just say, "Don't take it personally; I'm just taking advantage of some alone time."

[Annie-Xmas]

Call animal control -- they will trap him and either find him a good home or else euthanise him.

I hope they neuter him first.

I keep repeating: Don't try to be nice. Don't try to be polite. Don't try to be coy and sweet and act like a lady. Give him hell and make sure he gets the message.

We had an idiot working here who liked to sneak up on the women and give them a big bear hug. The first time he did it to me I shoved him into the nearest available wall! He never did that again.

[ivylass]

Him: I have a problem with my car, can you help me?
me: <thinking of jumping a bad battery and walking closer> Sure, what do you need, a jump? <older car>
him: no I need you to to sit inside and hold the door button down so it will lock


I've never been that naive, but still, I backed away from him and was very "get away from me, NOW"

Him: oh, you aren't going to help me? You're mean!

me: Get away from from me, there are men in there<pointing at the store>
that will help you with your car.

him: So you're a mean bitch?

me: Yes I am!

Got in my car and screeched out.

Cried and freaked the whole way home.


But not afraid of seeming like a bitch. :) No woman should in situations like that.


:)

I was in college, working at a clothing store, and as I was leaving I was approached by a guy who asked if I knew where to get a haircut. As it so happened, there was a salon in the back of the store where I worked, so I pointed it out to him. For some reason, that wasn't good enough, and he wanted me to give him a ride down the road. I told him I was getting ready to run errands and couldn't take the time.

I thought it a little odd at the time, but now I realize if I had let this guy get in my car.... :eek:

Maybe just say something like " I can't talk to you anymore while my husband is not around. He can be VERY jealous, and I don't want THAT to happen AGAIN."

That implies that except for her husband's jealousy, she would be open to the type of relationship the guy wants. It doesn't address the crux of the situation, which is this guy is making her EXTREMELY uncomfortable and is way out of line.

[lisacurl]

And I third the recommendation of The Gift of Fear.
That is an excellent, excellent book. I may get a copy for my mom for her birthday on Sunday, thanks for the reminder.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I keep repeating: Don't try to be nice. Don't try to be polite. Don't try to be coy and sweet and act like a lady. Give him hell and make sure he gets the message.

I wanted to repeat this. You don't have any reason to be nice to this guy. His behavior was wrong. Always trust your instincts.

Be prepared, though, for him to deny doing anything inappropriate. People like this always try to be just vague enough that they can deny any wrongdoing and leave doubt in the potential victim's mind. You'll start to wonder if you were reading the signals wrong, leaving him an opening to try again.

A guy approached me.

as I was leaving I was approached by a guy

I think the one thing that's always helped me was keeping in mind the predator mindset. Lions and tigers don't just sit around waiting for the prey to wander by. They go out in search of it. Human predators act the same way. (Not that every strange man who walks up to a woman is out to hurt her, of course.)

[ivylass]

I remember an episode of Designing Women where Mary Jo was mugged and the ladies talked her into taking a self-defense course. She was still freaked out by what happened, and left the class in the middle. Later as she's leaving a job she's joined by a strange guy in an elevator in a deserted parking lot and ends up screaming her bloody head off when he tries to talk to her.

She's humiliated when it turns out the guy was a potential client who had recognized her, and she tried to apologize. The guy brushed her off, saying he should have known better than to approach her in a deserted parking lot, and he apologized for scaring her.

Point is, I think many guys are cognizant of situations where a woman might be frightened, and most know better.

[Annie-Xmas]

I remember an episode of Designing Women where Mary Jo was mugged and the ladies talked her into taking a self-defense course. She was still freaked out by what happened, and left the class in the middle. Later as she's leaving a job she's joined by a strange guy in an elevator in a deserted parking lot and ends up screaming her bloody head off when he tries to talk to her.

She's humiliated when it turns out the guy was a potential client who had recognized her, and she tried to apologize. The guy brushed her off, saying he should have known better than to approach her in a deserted parking lot, and he apologized for scaring her.



The guy also said he would want his wife and daughters to act the same way in a similar situation.

After Ann Rule published "The Stranger Beside Me," her book about her friend Ted Bundy, she heard from many women who told her they had been approached by Bundy, but their instinct told them there was something creepy about him and to get away from him. While some may be mistaken, it's estimated that serial killers are only successful with about 10% of the women they approach.

[ivylass]

So, bottom line, olives, trust your instincts, and don't worry about appearing rude or unneighborly.

[Ellen Cherry]

I have a copy of The Gift of Fear, but I've never read it. I'm going to now.

A former co-worker a few years ago made what I felt were advances. I confronted him and he denied it. Fortunately he left and I don't have to deal with it, but at the time I thought, "this makes me uncomfortable for a REASON. I don't have to put up with this shit."

[starryspice]

One night, I was walking home at around midnight from a friend's house. I didn't live in a horrible neighborhood, but it wasn't great either, so I was alert. A block ahead of me, I noticed an absolutely huge African American man walking on the sidewalk in my direction. He was well over 6 feet and built like a body builder. I wasn't sure what to do - cross the street, or keep walking and keep cool. About half a block away, he crossed the street, passed me and kept walking. In other words, I'm fairly certain he knew his appearance was scary at midnight to an 20-year old girl and he took steps to avoid scaring me. I really appreciated that.

I guess my point is that nice guys are aware of their appearance and their actions and will take steps to avoid making a woman uncomfortable. Any guy that doesn't respect your personal space and makes you uncomfortable is not worthy of your time or your niceness. I think your decision to not answer the door is a good one and I think your husband sounds like great guy :). Also, I think it's good that you trusted your instincts and got him out of your apartment - you did the right thing.

[olivesmarch4th]

Yeah, my husband called him and left a message that said, ''This is Olives' husband, I know what you did, do not ever come over to the apartment again or we will pursue every legal avenue we have, and I will tell your wife. We don't want an apology, we just want to never speak to you again.''

I suppose there is no guarantee he received that message, but enough time has passed that I would feel comfortable just saying, ''I don't want to talk about it, please just leave me alone,'' if he ever were to confront me outside the apartment. And I'm not answering the door. I think that's just a good rule of thumb in general, unless it's, you know, UPS at the door.

I'm planning on reading The Gift of Fear. It occurred to me that this concept of always needing to be ''nice'' has impacted my life in multiple ways--for example, how easily I go for sales pitches because I feel guilty for wasting their time. I once let a telemarketer talk me into getting 6 magazine subscriptions. I'm still paying for them even though I don't receive the magazines anymore!

I could use some aggressiveness training--to just be able to say ''no'' and walk away, guilt-free.

[Ellen Cherry]

Ellen's Tip 'o the Day, olives, regarding telemarketers: simply hang up.

The way I look at it, you're doing them a favor. You're under no obligation to talk to them, after all. They called you and it's your phone, you can do what you want with it. So hang it up.

I always say, "sorry, I'm not interested, good-bye!" and then hang up. It's a little tough the first time, but now it's so freeing! Whee!

[eleanorigby]

I'm glad your husband supported you in this. (I've been in similar circs and mine has not--of course, then the masher was his uncle, but still. Uncle tried this smarmy shit on my daughter--not pedophile stuff, just pawing and borderline remarks, and I quickly put an end to it. He is not welcome in this house).

I will also get a copy of that book for my daughter, who is off to college in a year.

I once had a slightly similar situation occur. I was in the mall, looking for a present for my husband. I left and went to my car. I am fairly observant and "street savy", but this punk came up behind me. He tried to grab my arm as he stuck his tongue out and licked his lips very suggestively. I moved quickly away from him (thank god for remote openers) and was in my car, with the door locked in a flash. He was unzipping his fly at this point. (this is scrawny, pimply white teenager--I'm about 30 years old when this happened). I peeled out-not sure if I ran over his foot.


The creep thing about this was that the cop said that this creep probably marked me in the mall and followed me around and out to my car. Sweet Christ.

Of course trust your instincts, olive, but don't let this rule your life either. May I suggest an assertiveness training workshop? It might do wonders (and will work on the fundie female in the complex). I'm to the point with the Jehovah's Witnesses that I smile and say no, thanks and they wish me well adn go on their way. (I hid under the kitchen table when I was 24 so that they couldn't get sight of me through the window-very humiliating to relate here, but I want to share and show you that things can improve for you). Assertiveness does wonders.

[OneCentStamp]

I recommend seducing his wife.
Come on man, didn't you read the OP? She's really shy. Olives, don't worry about a thing. I'll fuck his wife for you.

Seriously, though, I echo the overwhelming sentiment here, to wit:

1) Yes, he's creepy.
2) You've handled things great so far.
3) Definitely don't allow him any access to you alone, whether in his home, yours or in a car.
4) Definitely tell your husband exactly what's been going on. He's on your side. And mashers like this creep tend to be cowardly bullies; even if your husband seems non-threatening to you, I bet he'll have no problem scaring this guy off. Guys like this thrive on non-confrontation.

[Q.N. Jones]

Stop seeing him. He isn't a friend. He's looking for sex, and that's it. Continuing to have contact with him will only lead him to hope.