Make up your mind, kid!

[Dinsdale]

Last Thursday my kid - a HS Sr. - received a detention at school. Apparently he sassed a dean after she told him to take off his hat in school. It's an Indy Jones-type hat that the little freak wears all the time, and she caught him between the door and his locker. I guess when she told him to take it off he said, "Yeah, like THIS hat means I'm in a gang or something." He served his detention on Monday.

Yesterday he brought home a letter informing him that he has been chosen to be honored in a monthly thing they call "A Matter of Pride." Always supportive, I asked him if they were handing these out at detention...

The "Pride" thing involves completing a questionnaire/bio, which is posted along with your photo. One of the questions is "What is your favorite possession?" I think he should say his hat! :D

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

You should warn him that he doesn't want to be known as "the guy in the fedora." Starting about ten years ago, when I first went off to college, I always noticed that in any group of socially-awkward dorks, there is always one guy in a fedora. These are the guys who are laughing too loud at each other's Monty Python references and hogging their table by playing Magic: The Gathering during a restaurant's peak busy time. The greasy ponytails, the neckbeards, the silk shirts with wolves and dragons and anime characters, the trench coats in summer heat, the orange fingertips stained from years of gobbling Cheetos during late night World of Warcraft marathons. And there's always a guy in a fedora in their number. If this isn't his usual social circle, he might not want to be lumped in with them.

[Justin_Bailey]

You should warn him that he doesn't want to be known as "the guy in the fedora." Starting about ten years ago, when I first went off to college, I always noticed that in any group of socially-awkward dorks, there is always one guy in a fedora. These are the guys who are laughing too loud at each other's Monty Python references and hogging their table by playing Magic: The Gathering during a restaurant's peak busy time. The greasy ponytails, the neckbeards, the silk shirts with wolves and dragons and anime characters, the trench coats in summer heat, the orange fingertips stained from years of gobbling Cheetos during late night World of Warcraft marathons. And there's always a guy in a fedora in their number. If this isn't his usual social circle, he might not want to be lumped in with them.

This is one of those universal truths that can't be stated enough.

Which really disappoints me because I think fedoras are awesome and I always wanted to wear one regularly.

[JohnT]

What's wrong with fedoras?

Or is it a college thing? I'm 40, so maybe they look better on us older professional-types.

Anyway, I look awesome in mine. Of course, you have to dress appropriately.

[Freudian Slit]

How do they select who gets the Pride award? Is it based on grades/extracurriculor, or more random--like a way of honoring a different, randomly selected person each month?

The fedora truth seems sad. I'm female--can I pull of a fedora? Ever since I played Carmen San Diego, I thought fedoras were so boss.

[garygnu]

You should warn him that he doesn't want to be known as "the guy in the fedora." Starting about ten years ago, when I first went off to college, I always noticed that in any group of socially-awkward dorks, there is always one guy in a fedora. These are the guys who are laughing too loud at each other's Monty Python references and hogging their table by playing Magic: The Gathering during a restaurant's peak busy time. The greasy ponytails, the neckbeards, the silk shirts with wolves and dragons and anime characters, the trench coats in summer heat, the orange fingertips stained from years of gobbling Cheetos during late night World of Warcraft marathons. And there's always a guy in a fedora in their number. If this isn't his usual social circle, he might not want to be lumped in with them.
Here, here, well spoken, Bruce!

[Justin_Bailey]

What's wrong with fedoras?

Big Bad Voodoo Lou covered it pretty well. Being a teenager and wearing a fedora has a certain stigma attached to it that always ends up the same. The dude that wears a fedora may be OK, but 10-1 says the people he associates with are the nerds that really are losers.

[JohnT]

Gotcha. It's an age thing.

Well, I'm past the age where I worry about such things, so... ;)

[Swampwolf]

The fedora truth seems sad. I'm female--can I pull of a fedora? Ever since I played Carmen San Diego, I thought fedoras were so boss.

If you've got a hat-face, definitely! Chicks in fedoras are totally hot! In fact, I'd go as far as to say the only people under a fedora that I can take seriously are chicks, and mid-thirties-plus guys.

I'm bummed out about that though. I've had a fedora since my early 20s, and even though I'm 38, I don't look much older than 25. Maybe I need to wear it this winter, when I have a (fairly grey) beard.

[Bosstone]

Big Bad Voodoo Lou covered it pretty well. Being a teenager and wearing a fedora has a certain stigma attached to it that always ends up the same. The dude that wears a fedora may be OK, but 10-1 says the people he associates with are the nerds that really are losers.The DM at our weekly D&D session wears a fedora sometimes.


...D'oh. :smack:

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

One note on fedoras: I like them too, and as my screen name suggests, I'm really into retro culture and style. I love wearing suits, and I look damn cool in a suit. You can pull off a fedora if you're wearing a suit, or a shirt/tie/suspenders combo, or even a vintage-looking "hipster doofus" sort of shirt (bowling shirts, guayaberas, etc). But if you're sporting everyday casual clothes, or worse yet, a Dragon Ball Z shirt and three weeks worth of neckbeard, the fedora is going to make you look even less cool than usual.

Note: similar rules apply for trench coats. If you wear a trench coat over your suit, you look badass. If you wear it over your souvenir T-shirt from a metal concert or comic book convention with ratty cargo shorts, Silent Bob style, you're on the last train to Dorksville.

[Dinsdale]

Not sure how they pick the "honorees." I'd assume a teacher or someone nominates them. I think there is a brunch or something - maybe they'll explain it then. My wife says she thinks it is a way to recognize some of the kids who might not get recognized through the traditional grades/sports type of things.

Re: the hats - man, this kid has long been all about the hats. For winter he wears one of those Russian fur jobs (anshaka or somesuch?). His mom got him an authentic one a coupleof years back and he swears it is the best winter hat ever. He's got a cop's hat and a British Bobby's helmet. A tricorn and a couple of different camp/work caps for rev war re-enacting. His grandparents brought him all kinds of goofy hats from their world travels.

No fedoras or porkpies as yet, tho I can imagine his standard hat could be kinda fedora-ish if it were blocked differently.This (http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=products&c2=UNIFORMS&C3=UHATS&C4=&LV=3&item=637&prodid=637^8^05NDC&) is the hat, but it doesn't have the pin on it.

To his credit, his skin is very sensitive to the sun, so he has a legitimate reason for wearing it. But he's been wearing this damn hat pretty much everytime he goes outside for the past 4 years or so.

[Birdmonster]

I also had a guy at my high school who wore a fez. Truly. If your son goes that route, I think we can all agree that the mutilation of said headwear would constitute good parenting.

[Robot Arm]

I may regret asking this, but,...

What's a neckbeard?

[Zambini57]

Last Thursday my kid - a HS Sr. - received a detention at school. Apparently he sassed a dean after she told him to take off his hat in school. It's an Indy Jones-type hat that the little freak wears all the time, and she caught him between the door and his locker. I guess when she told him to take it off he said, "Yeah, like THIS hat means I'm in a gang or something." He served his detention on Monday.

Yesterday he brought home a letter informing him that he has been chosen to be honored in a monthly thing they call "A Matter of Pride." Always supportive, I asked him if they were handing these out at detention...

The "Pride" thing involves completing a questionnaire/bio, which is posted along with your photo. One of the questions is "What is your favorite possession?" I think he should say his hat! :D

You sound like a pretty weak parent. Aren't you the same sea-lawyer who about a month or so ago tried to weasel your way out of a situation where your daughter tried to lie her way out of damaging a parked car?

It sounds like you give your kids a little too much leeway. But, I guess it's all part of your personal arrogance and sense of entitlement, being a "lawyer" and all.

Hey, you want to raise assholes, that's up to you. He "sassed a dean"? Gee, wonder where he got that from? Did you slap him on the back and say "way to go?'

If the dean tells him to take off his stupid hat, then he should take off his stupid hat. It's called learning respect for authority. When he makes his own way, if he ever does, and establishes his own authority, I bet he would like it if people respected it.

Until then, he should respect the people who have earned their authority.

This is my mundane, pointless thought.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

If she caught him between the door and his locker, he was wearing his hat indoors. *tsk tsk*
Didn't you rear him better than that?

[Swampwolf]

This is my mundane, pointless thought.

...that sounds like a pit thought.

You want Dinsdale to raise his/her (sorry, D, I don't know) child to follow authority blindly? Kowtow to whatever the stuffed shirts say? How are you gonna raise your kids? "Sorry, Junior. I know what your teacher did was unfair. I'll make sure to pack the Vaseline in your lunch tomorrow. And remember, it only hurts at first."

Kudos to you, Dinsdale, for supporting your son in his expressing his individuality, and defending it with a very minor bit of sarcasm. Especially for being able to joke with him about it.

[Freudian Slit]

You sound like a pretty weak parent. Aren't you the same sea-lawyer who about a month or so ago tried to weasel your way out of a situation where your daughter tried to lie her way out of damaging a parked car?

It sounds like you give your kids a little too much leeway. But, I guess it's all part of your personal arrogance and sense of entitlement, being a "lawyer" and all.
Which thread was this? I don't recall seeing it...is there a link?

I'm not a parent, but when I read the OP, it sounded more like the dean was being a bit jerky. Then again, I was the type of kid who never said this kind of stuff but secretly wanted to.

Though Dinsdale hasn't said if he disciplined the kid in addition to the remarks he made. My overall reaction was that it wasn't such a huge deal, though. The kid made a remark, got detention...now, if he'd drawn a picture of a gun...

[Birdmonster]

I may regret asking this, but,...

What's a neckbeard?
You know how a man's beard grows from about his cheeks to half-way down his neck? You know how most men with beards shave their necks? It's kind of the beard equivalent of the pathetic peach fuzz teenage mustache, in a way.

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

You know how a man's beard grows from about his cheeks to half-way down his neck? You know how most men with beards shave their necks? It's kind of the beard equivalent of the pathetic peach fuzz teenage mustache, in a way.
And not shaving your neck usually denotes a lack of caring about your appearance and hygiene -- again, a trait associated with stereotypical geeks and nerds.

[Robot Arm]

You know how a man's beard grows from about his cheeks to half-way down his neck? You know how most men with beards shave their necks? It's kind of the beard equivalent of the pathetic peach fuzz teenage mustache, in a way.Is this (http://www.muppetlabs.com/~eric/DSC00042.JPG) a neckbeard?

Is this (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/12/02/House_051202011818170_wideweb__300x450.jpg)?

[Zambini57]

...that sounds like a pit thought.

You want Dinsdale to raise his/her (sorry, D, I don't know) child to follow authority blindly? Kowtow to whatever the stuffed shirts say? How are you gonna raise your kids? "Sorry, Junior. I know what your teacher did was unfair. I'll make sure to pack the Vaseline in your lunch tomorrow. And remember, it only hurts at first."

Kudos to you, Dinsdale, for supporting your son in his expressing his individuality, and defending it with a very minor bit of sarcasm. Especially for being able to joke with him about it.

No, it's not a "pit" thought. It's a mundane, pointless thought like I stated.

There's nothing in the rules that says a mundane pointless thought has to be friendly.

Please, let's not get into the whole undergrad rants about "kowtowing", and "stuffed shirts" and the whole "The Man" thing.

There are people in this world who have authority. They have earned it, and they know how to weild it fairly.

If you can't handle that, then go smoke some grass, put on a tie-dyed t-shirt, live in a van and learn how to wave your arms vociferously while mumbling incoherently.

[garygnu]

Is this (http://www.muppetlabs.com/~eric/DSC00042.JPG) a neckbeard?

Is this (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/12/02/House_051202011818170_wideweb__300x450.jpg)?
Both of those, to an extent, but often there is little facial hair besides on the neck.

[Birdmonster]

Is this (http://www.muppetlabs.com/~eric/DSC00042.JPG) a neckbeard?

Is this (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/12/02/House_051202011818170_wideweb__300x450.jpg)?
I'm definitely not the world's foremost neckbeard expert, but I'd say, yes and no. Hugh Laurie's looks more like stubble. The less famous gentleman is definitely more what we're talking about. Once the beard is a good week old and the neck hasn't been shaved, I'd begin proclaiming it a neckbeard.

[Swampwolf]

No, it's not a "pit" thought. It's a mundane, pointless thought like I stated.
A mundane, pointless, thinly-veiled insult, you mean.
There are people in this world who have authority. They have earned it, and they know how to weild it fairly.
True. There are. There are also people whose authority is not earned, or they don't know how to wield it fairly. This dean appears to be the latter.
If you can't handle that, then go smoke some grass, put on a tie-dyed t-shirt, live in a van and learn how to wave your arms vociferously while mumbling incoherently.
Okay, so let me see if I understand you. Supporting the expression of individuality + being against the abuse of authority and arbitrary rules=crazy hippie?
Got it.
Thank you, though. You have very quickly let me know that I can safely disregard anything else you have to say. Now, instead of paying attention to you, I have more time to get high, tie-dye all my clothing, move into my van (a 1967 VW bus, of course. Right? Is that where I live?) and mumble incoherently.

Except...how does one wave their arms vociferously? (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/vociferous) And someone who waves their arms about generally prefers to rant, not to mumble.

[Birdmonster]

(snip)...There are people in this world who have authority. They have earned it, and they know how to weild it fairly...(snip)
Sure, there are those folks. But then there are all the petty, cliche-spitting bosses, power-tripping referees at children's soccer games, and corrupt, elected public officials on the other side of the aisle. It sounds like you're saying that those in authority should be respected by virtue of that authority, not by virtue of their qualifications, leadership ability, or intelligence, which I'd take supreme issue with.

[Robot Arm]

I'm definitely not the world's foremost neckbeard expert, but I'd say, yes...Damn....and no.Double Damn.Hugh Laurie's looks more like stubble. The less famous gentleman...Almost 5,000 posts, you'd think I'd have some kind of rep by now.

At least my shirt is cooler than his, right?

[Birdmonster]

At least my shirt is cooler than his, right?
It's certainly more intimidating. Hugh Laurie quivers in his boots. As do I.

[phouka]

Damn.Double Damn.Almost 5,000 posts, you'd think I'd have some kind of rep by now.

At least my shirt is cooler than his, right?


Diude, I love the shirt. But lose the neckbeard.

[Contrapuntal]

Neckbeards. (http://images.google.com/images?q=neckbeard&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_en_____213&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1)

[Harmonious Discord]

Parking Lot Door Ding, (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=427585) since it was brought up in this thread.

[Monster104]

Until then, he should respect the people who have earned their authority.
Or, he can learn to judge things on a case by case basis, so when an annoying prat of a dean tells him to take off his hat he can make a harmless comment at the cost of a measly detention.

[Bosstone]

Neckbeards. (http://images.google.com/images?q=neckbeard&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_en_____213&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1) :eek:

I swear that I will shave my neck each and every day from now on. And not wear a fedora without a suit.

[Dinsdale]

A fez, huh? He's got one of those too.

I had considered posting about the detention thing when it happened, but thought better of it given the - uh - less than pleasant personal experience I derived from some similar parenting threads.

Zambini, before today I had no idea of your existence. I think I was better off.

[Kythereia]

If you can't handle that, then go smoke some grass, put on a tie-dyed t-shirt, live in a van and learn how to wave your arms vociferously while mumbling incoherently.

There's a slight difference between damn dirty Commie hippie and telling a teacher that a fedora has not, in fact, been a symbol of any gang past the early 1920s.

[AHoosierMama]

Whether you are the boy in the hat, or the girl who always wears platform shoes, or the kid that always wears yellow, what you think is your trademark will actually overcome you. People will tend think of you as "Hat Guy" or "Shoe Girl" and dismiss the rest of your fabulous qualities. Relying on a gimmick to be cool actually achieves the opposite effect. Worse - when Hat Boy grows into Hat Man, the ladies will all assume he's hiding a bald spot.

[Hey, It's That Guy!]

Worse - when Hat Boy grows into Hat Man, the ladies will all assume he's hiding a bald spot.
And these days, it is perfectly acceptable and even cool for balding men like me to just shave our heads. There is no excuse for the "combover" anymore!

[Dinsdale]

Worse - when Hat Boy grows into Hat Man, the ladies will all assume he's hiding a bald spot.

In that category, I'm glad to report that I have a full head of hair at age 47. My wife's dad is nearing 80 and fully pelted, as was my mom's dad when he died at age 87. So hopefully he shouldn't need to worry about THAT!

[Dinsdale]

Further developments - he just learned this a.m. that he got a middle-sized role in the upcoming musical (he wanted a lead role and was very stressed thru the auditions. But I think he will enjoy the role he has and have fun with it. A tough learning experience to compete for something he really wanted against other (more?) talented folk.)

His college applications are in - another stressful hurdle, and there should be little question that he will be accepted by at least one of his top 3 choices. He made choir and madrigals. From here on in I hope he is able to enjoy his senior year.

Re: the hat - personally I think it is a tad goofy. But I feel I am so demanding of the kid in so many respects, and he exceeds my expectations in just about everything, that I'm not gonna dictate every aspect of his attire/grooming.

[burundi]

You can pull off a fedora if you're wearing a suit, or a shirt/tie/suspenders combo, or even a vintage-looking "hipster doofus" sort of shirt (bowling shirts, guayaberas, etc). But if you're sporting everyday casual clothes, or worse yet, a Dragon Ball Z shirt and three weeks worth of neckbeard, the fedora is going to make you look even less cool than usual.
Big Bad Voodoo Lou is a wise, wise man. Dinsdale, I think it's great that you don't want to ride your son about his appearance, but you should try to let him know that women dig a man who can dress well, especially if his peers are wearing dirty t-shirts and ancient shorts.

[Dinsdale]

Being no expert on headwear, do most of you consider the hat I linked above qualifies as a fedora? (http://www.dadshats.com/fedoras.html)

I always thought of it more as a bush or "Indy Jones" hat, more casual than a fedora due to the leather band/chin strap. But I see this site shows the "Indy" (http://www.dadshats.com/dopatinjofeh.html) hat with a ribbon band.

This “Stetson” fedora (http://www.dadshats.com/stsfurfefe0.html) is pretty close to my kid's hat.

Like I said, the kid does have sun sensitivity, so what would you recommend instead? Maybe one of those French foreign legion campaign hats with the cloth down the back...

IMO, could be worse – he could wear a porkpie (http://dadshats.stores.yahoo.net/porkpie3.html) which IMO always seems to scream “hipster wannabe.” Or maybe a derby (http://dadshats.stores.yahoo.net/derby3.html) a la Clockwork Orange.

To his credit, he has taken the advice of his mom and younger sister, and updated his wardrobe at the end of the summer. Nothing terribly stylish or anything, but got rid of some of the worn logo tees, and wears clothes that fit him and are in good repair.

[SkipMagic]

Zambini57, your posts in this thread belong in the Pit. It's okay to bring up a differing viewpoint, but not in such a manner that you appear to be insulting anyone. Please tone it down or take it to the Pit.

[Words on the Interweb]

That hat policy probably makes sense to policymakers who figure gangs would just switch to the hats they could wear - brown fedoras for the east side, black fedoras for the west side, or something. It is a bit ridiculous, because really, kids will find a way to display their affiliations, even by something as small as the colour of shoelaces. The only way to ensure no gang affiliations are being displayed is to go with uniforms and no jewellery. However, if junior feels the school's policy is ridiculous, the best way to communicate that is not to sass the Dean in the hallway. I'd be encouraging him to go to the powers that be with mature, well-thought reasons the policy should be abolished.

Re: sun sensitivity; wear the hat to school, take it off before going in the gates, and use sunscreen? Does he have that much outdoor time at school that sunscreen alone wouldn't be sufficient? If that doesn't work, and his sun sensitivity is so severe that he simply must wear a hat, then I'd have his doctor intervene on his behalf for special permission. Surely the school would have to make an exception for proven medical issues.

[Sean Factotum]

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