Mafia: The Conspiracy

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Why am I doing this. Remember scum, another scum team winning is bad, the town winning is worse. The town gets to plan out in the open while we are stuck not knowing who the other is. So I thought I would plan in the open and throw out ideas for the scum give some grounding to the next attacks on the town. Feel free to follow them or not.

And So, in honour of not voting for a fellow scum member.

Vote No Lynch

As for why I am happy, Blaster Master, timing is everything ;)



Now that's not very fair. You're scum, you're supposed to go quietly and apologetically, not kill poor lil' ole' Diomedes!

[Idle Thoughts]

While I'm here though...

Unvote CatInASuit
Vote MHaye

..if only to allow Town to have two Witches for at least one more Night.

[CatInASuit]

Now that's not very fair. You're scum, you're supposed to go quietly and apologetically, not kill poor lil' ole' Diomedes!

:D :p :D :p :D :p :D :p

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

While I'm here though...

Unvote CatInASuit
Vote MHaye

..if only to allow Town to have two Witches for at least one more Night.

Excellent point, Idle. Even if I get killed tonight, Witch #3 can at least reveal an extra investigation.

Unvote CatInASuit
Vote MHaye


What can I say, I'm a coward at heart. I don't like the idea of being killed by a creepy curse. Please feel free to tear me to shreds tonight, though, wolves. You guys are my least unfavorite scum group.

[Idle Thoughts]

Just thought of another thing (although it's not going to make me change my vote back to CIAS, at least, not yet). CIAS, if she were the Vampire, would so obviously claim Necromancer anyway (something the real Necromancer wouldn't mind at all). Not only would it keep he....


I've been doing it again, haven't I?

Yes, yes, I know that I still have time to edit it since I have not yet submitted it.
No, no, I do not want to. I want you all to see how BAD THIS IS. My mind SIMPLY WILL NOT see or think of CIAS as a male. : / No matter how many times I tell myself he's a male, my brain just won't think of him as one. It keeps seeing and thinking of a female...every. time.
As you see above, been using the wrong pronouns again. :smack:




Anyway, back to what I was saying. Not only would it keep him still in the game to be able to kill at Night, but would make people scared to vote for him in the Day. So really, the Vamp becomes immune, of sorts.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Yes, yes, I know that I still have time to edit it since I have not yet submitted it.
No, no, I do not want to. I want you all to see how BAD THIS IS. My mind SIMPLY WILL NOT see or think of CIAS as a male. : / No matter how many times I tell myself he's a male, my brain just won't think of him as one. It keeps seeing and thinking of a female...every. time.
As you see above, been using the wrong pronouns again. :smack:




Anyway, back to what I was saying. Not only would it keep him still in the game to be able to kill at Night, but would make people scared to vote for him in the Day. So really, the Vamp becomes immune, of sorts.


Just start associating him with his avatar on the Firefly board. You don't think of the Cheshire Cat as female, do you?

Oh, and if we do have a Vig left alive, they can take down Cat tonight, whether he's Vampire, Necromancer or Third-Level Werewolf/Chihuahua crossbreed.

[Blaster Master]

Actually, Cat... claiming was quite foolish if you're telling the truth.

If you really are the necromancer, then you're no immediate threat to the town or even the scum factions. In fact, you'd only be a threat when the zombies count starts to pile up. Thus, leaving you alive for a Day or Two cause zero harm and possibly forces the wolves to consider taking you out instead, since they have just as much to lose as the rest of us do.

Further, if you're taken out by the Vigilante, then it's all for moot anyway. At this point, I was actually leaning toward switch my vote to MHaye because... I have a far bolder plan that, if I've got it figured out in my head, will get us two more scum Tomorrow.

I will digest it a little bit farther and, if I cannot find any holes, I'll post it tomorrow.



And on a side note... how is town winning worse than another scum faction winning? This same sort of thought process was happening in M3 and MV as well, and I just don't get it. If you lose, you lose.

[Blaster Master]

Oops... forgot to change my vote

Unvote CatInTheHat
Vote MHaye

[CatInASuit]

And on a side note... how is town winning worse than another scum faction winning? This same sort of thought process was happening in M3 and MV as well, and I just don't get it. If you lose, you lose.
Does the acronym ABM mean anything to you?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Does the acronym ABM mean anything to you?

Anti-Ballistic Missile? Artificial Baby Milk? Astroturf Barbarian Mothra?

[CatInASuit]

Anti-Ballistic Missile? Artificial Baby Milk? Astroturf Barbarian Mothra?
Sorry, Diomedes. Not even close :)

Oh and thanks for trying to correct Idle Thoughts about my gender.

[Blaster Master]

Does the acronym ABM mean anything to you?
Well, since Dio already did what would have been the essence of my response: nope.
Oh and thanks for trying to correct Idle Thoughts about my gender.
That's why you're [B}CatInTheHat[/B] to me... or, at least in my head. :D

[sachertorte]

Personally, I don't think we should pay attention to anything that the Cat has to say. Cats LIE.

Town should make the decision without regard to any information that scum offer so openly and freely. Maybe Cat has a kill-a-townie secret power, maybe not. But if I were him, I'd keep it secret. Everything in Cat's post is screaming, don't lynch me! How do we know that Cat's telling the truth? How do we know that his extra killing power isn't something that needs to happen At Night?
We don't.
We should ignore him.
vote CatInASuit
The only advantage of lynching MHaye that I can see, is to force the Wolves to use a different killer Tonight. But I'm of the opinion that a 50% chance of getting the vampire before the Night is worth more than moving up Hockey Monkey's ability to find another wolf from 3 days to 2 days.

[dotchan]

ABM (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?acronym=ABM&String=exact&page=1)?

Anyway, what makes us so sure that CatInASuit is telling the truth at all about her secret power?

Besides, if she is lying about being the Necromancer and is the Vampire, I'd still rather take her out toDay. One less killer == most excellent.

[Blaster Master]

Personally, I don't think we should pay attention to anything that the Cat has to say. Cats LIE.

Town should make the decision without regard to any information that scum offer so openly and freely. Maybe Cat has a kill-a-townie secret power, maybe not. But if I were him, I'd keep it secret. Everything in Cat's post is screaming, don't lynch me! How do we know that Cat's telling the truth? How do we know that his extra killing power isn't something that needs to happen At Night?
We don't.
We should ignore him.
vote CatInASuit
The only advantage of lynching MHaye that I can see, is to force the Wolves to use a different killer Tonight. But I'm of the opinion that a 50% chance of getting the vampire before the Night is worth more than moving up Hockey Monkey's ability to find another wolf from 3 days to 2 days.

I had actually expected that the necromancer or vampire would have a similar power. I actually have a plan in mind that would make it such that, if Cat IS the Vampire, he is largely moot and possibly an advantage to the town. However, such a plan would require the revealing of my role and secret power along with certain assumptions about roles being verified.

Hockey Monkey, I want to make sure I understand your power correctly... You choose a kill to investigate during the Day and receive your report at dusk?

...the rest will require a ruling from our bastard resident mod.

[Hockey Monkey]

Hmmmm, I will have no problem switching my vote over to MHaye. A scum's a scum yanno. I want to ponder this information for a while though. There is no reason to believe Cat's role claim except that I'm pretty sure the scum have secret powers too. The question is does he really want us to lynch him or will his bomb power be really be activated on a night kill? It seems clear to me that by role-claiming, he's hoping we don't lynch him. I prefer not to do what the scum wants us to do. Necromancer is the perfect role claim for a Vampire. We need to discuss this.

[Hockey Monkey]

I had actually expected that the necromancer or vampire would have a similar power. I actually have a plan in mind that would make it such that, if Cat IS the Vampire, he is largely moot and possibly an advantage to the town. However, such a plan would require the revealing of my role and secret power along with certain assumptions about roles being verified.

Hockey Monkey, I want to make sure I understand your power correctly... You choose a kill to investigate during the Day and receive your report at dusk?

...the rest will require a ruling from our bastard resident mod.


Exactly. I will receive my report on last Night's kills after the dusk post toDay.

[ShadowFacts]

Personally, I don't think we should pay attention to anything that the Cat has to say. Cats LIE.

Town should make the decision without regard to any information that scum offer so openly and freely. Maybe Cat has a kill-a-townie secret power, maybe not. But if I were him, I'd keep it secret. Everything in Cat's post is screaming, don't lynch me! How do we know that Cat's telling the truth? How do we know that his extra killing power isn't something that needs to happen At Night?
We don't.
We should ignore him.
vote CatInASuit
The only advantage of lynching MHaye that I can see, is to force the Wolves to use a different killer Tonight. But I'm of the opinion that a 50% chance of getting the vampire before the Night is worth more than moving up Hockey Monkey's ability to find another wolf from 3 days to 2 days.

Agree completely. My vote stands.

[DiggitCamara]

Well, I for one am happy to vote for a 100% confirmed scum:

Vote CatInTheSuit

[sachertorte]

Excellent point, Idle. Even if I get killed tonight, Witch #3 can at least reveal an extra investigation.
I'm not sure if you should reveal what your intentions are for tonight. I think you should wait until night and then flip a coin between investigate and protect. That way scum need to debate whether or not it's worth risking a kill on Diomedes since he might be protected.
Or maybe this was all a clever ploy.
Either way, the protect option MUST remain on the table.

[DiggitCamara]

When does this Day end?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

When does this Day end?
Wednesday, noon, like all the others.

[Rysto]

Wednesday, noon, like all the others.
Noon Pacific.

[Santo Rugger]

Why would the Necromancer give up the game like that? I think Cat is another scum role, that's trying to last another day or two.

Vote CatinaSuit

My preferred targets for the next day would be MHaye, followed by Idle. It boggles my mind that he can misunderstand the rules and his PM that are written pretty clearly that badly. In his defense, he's done it before, and wasn't scum the last time.

[Blaster Master]

Okay... let's look at it this way, there's six possibilities related to Cat, his claimed power, and MHaye:

1) Cat is the Vampire, we lynch MHaye: One kill attempt Tonight, no new info for Hockey Monkey.

2) Cat is the Vampire, we lynch MHaye: Two kill attempts Tonight, new info for Hockey Monkey.


3) Cat is the necromancer, that's a fake power, we lynch him today: Two kill attempts Tonight, no new info for Hockey Monkey.

4) Cat is the necromancer, that's a fake power, we lynch MHaye: Two kill attempts Tonight, new info for Hockey Monkey.


5) Cat is the necromancer, that's a real power, we lynch him today: We lose Diomedes, rendering the witches useless, have Two kill attempts Tonight, have no new info for Hockey Monkey.

6) Cat is the necromancer, that's a real power, we lynch MHaye: Two kill attempts Tonight, new info for Hockey Monkey.


Clearly, if he's the Vampire, it's optimal to lynch Cat, otherwise, it's clearly optimal to lynch MHaye. But balancing these two is tricky. HOWEVER, you have to remember, any new investigation from Hockey Monkey or the Witches will give us, either one more confirmed or one more scum and, with the protections we have, a kill attempt is not as bad harmful as the extra information is helpful because A) we have at least two blocks available between Idle and the Witches (quite possibly more) B) There's a non-zero probability that the kill attempts will overlap C) There's a non-zero probability they won't target the most important roles, making them less hurtful D) There's a non-zero probability that other scum will be taken out.

Further, the plan I've mentioned, over which I'm still agonizing on a few minor details, will guarantee that the Witches AND Hockey Monkey WILL survive the Night, netting us, ultimately, one more reading from Hockey Monkey, and two more readings from the Witches, at the cost of, at worst, two kill attempts before we lynch Cat IF, worst case, he's the vampire.

[Blaster Master]

NETA: I was EXTREMLY tempted to put in a formula there, with all the probabilities worked out, but apparently hard numbers are frowned upon in Mafia... :dubious: :(

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Further, the plan I've mentioned, over which I'm still agonizing on a few minor details, will guarantee that the Witches AND Hockey Monkey WILL survive the Night, netting us, ultimately, one more reading from Hockey Monkey, and two more readings from the Witches, at the cost of, at worst, two kill attempts before we lynch Cat IF, worst case, he's the vampire.


I think Blaster's analysis is quite on-target here... It's quite reasonable to suppose that Cat's not lying about his power, it stands to reason given his initial reaction to me outing him. I somehow guess several of these votes determined to stick with lynching Cat are those of scum who see a light at the end of their collective tunnels.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Perhaps I should add that, in addition to one of the witches having an extra investigation, another one of us has an extra protection. If I'm alive tonight, we could both protect and investigate one last time, or double protect Town members. When I die, the final Witch becomes mostly useless to the town.

[Hockey Monkey]

I'm all ears, Blaster Master. I'll render my vote accordingly when I read the plan. Thanks for leaving out the Maths. :D

[sachertorte]

I like math.

[Freudian Slit]

NETA: I was EXTREMLY tempted to put in a formula there, with all the probabilities worked out, but apparently hard numbers are frowned upon in Mafia... :dubious: :(
Hard numbers are scary! ...and hard. (I almost didn't make it through Selfish Gene because of the formulas.) Please don't make this scary!

[sachertorte]

Well, one thing we know is that scum have recruitment power. By killing CatInASuit Today, we eliminate the possibility of CatInASuit recruiting Tonight.
I find it doubtful that MHaye holds recruitment power for the Wolves as they would not have elected him to carry out the murder of amrussell and expose himself to Detective investigation. My guess is: MHaye is a regular werewolf.

[Blaster Master]

Well, one thing we know is that scum have recruitment power. By killing CatInASuit Today, we eliminate the possibility of CatInASuit recruiting Tonight.
I find it doubtful that MHaye holds recruitment power for the Wolves as they would not have elected him to carry out the murder of amrussell and expose himself to Detective investigation. My guess is: MHaye is a regular werewolf.

My theory, which I cannot back up in any way, is that the recruitment power probably belongs to the Vampire.

However, assuming Idle is honest and, as I've said, I'm inclined to believe him at this point, based on your description of how recruitment works, if someone comes back from the dead when he says he didn't enchant them, we simply lynch whoever it is. And if he's a lying sack 'o crap, then the real witch-doctor can step forward and we get a 2-for-1 special on scum, or there is no witch-doctor, then they're linked, and we'll get them both when we get to the point of having to route out the last two scum.

In essence, I don't think the recruitment, as you described it, is much of a threat at this point.

Anyway... I think it will make more sense when I lay out my plan... I still have a couple more cases for which to consider contingencies.

[sachertorte]

In essence, I don't think the recruitment, as you described it, is much of a threat at this point.
But that's one more scum we have to lynch. Are you sure we have enough lynches to go around?
Recruitment is not quite pure terror, since presumably recruiment precludes a nightkilling. However, if we rate a dead townie by night kill as -1.0 for the town, recruitment scores a -1.5 by pure numbers alone. And what if they recruit Idle Thoughts? How will we distinguish between a self-enchanted Idle Thoughts and a recruited Idle Thoughts?

I'm not saying we should lynch CatInASuit just because of recruitment, but it is something we need to consider.

The only benefit I see in lynching MHaye is that it makes Hockey Monkey relevant sooner.

[ShadowFacts]

I think Blaster's analysis is quite on-target here... It's quite reasonable to suppose that Cat's not lying about his power, it stands to reason given his initial reaction to me outing him.

I disagree. I think it is eminently reasonable that Cat would lie and say anything to save his neck for another day and/or sow confusion.

I somehow guess several of these votes determined to stick with lynching Cat are those of scum who see a light at the end of their collective tunnels.

Please don't poison the well. I am Town if you believe your own powers and I think we should stick with lynching Cat.

[ShadowFacts]

I think Blaster's analysis is quite on-target here... It's quite reasonable to suppose that Cat's not lying about his power, it stands to reason given his initial reaction to me outing him.

I disagree. I think it is eminently reasonable that Cat would lie and say anything to save his neck for another day and/or sow confusion.

I somehow guess several of these votes determined to stick with lynching Cat are those of scum who see a light at the end of their collective tunnels.

Please don't poison the well. You know I am Town and I think we should stick with lynching Cat despite whatever flack he throws our way.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Please don't poison the well. You know I am Town and I think we should stick with lynching Cat despite whatever flack he throws our way.

I don't think you're scum. Nor do I think sachetorte is. I do question the others. though.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, I think I have my plan mostly worked out but, unfortunately, I do not have time right now to lay it out in detail...

Without giving away my role at this point without a full claim, I will only describe that part which is necessary. I have a special power that will, aside from guaranteeing I will make it through the Night, it will also ensure that other(s) will make it as well. By using this power I will 100% guarantee my and Hockey Monkey's survival tonight... if I can indeed protect more than two, I will not reveal whom else I would protect, thus freeing the Witches to protect Diomedes.

This will mean the scum can think I'm bluffing and target me or Hockey Monkey and waste their kill or they can target Sachetorte or Idle. Targetting Idle would be foolish because, knowing Dio is protected, he can self-juju, which makes their kill wasted. Thus, the only confirmed target left unprotected is Sachetorte. This is where having two kill attempts can actually be made to work to our advantage.

They can BOTH target him, making Hockey Monkey's investigation the following Day very simple OR one of them can either target Idle (essentially wasting it AND allowing Sach to confirm his role) OR they can call my bluff (wasting it) OR they can take a stab in the unconfirmed pool hoping to find, either an opposing scum, the third Witch, or some other pro-town role which, ultimately, makes our job easier. Also, because there's no way for either scum faction to work with the other, it's possible that they'll out guess eachother and BOTH try to make sure they don't double up on targets and possibly BOTH waste their kills OR take stabs in the unconfirmed pool. And, if either DOES decide to kill Sach, it's largely a neutral kill, because it hurts them almost as much as it hurts town.

Now, in light of this, I have decided NOT to reveal my role unless it becomes necessary. First, because it will only help scum and second, if I show up dead, obviously I was lying scum, and if Hockey Monkey shows up dead, you all can lynch me knowing I'm lying scum and the town is benefited or if she shows up dead, the best she would have had was the Witch Doctor's enchantment ANYWAY (since the witches will almost certainly protect Diomedes tonight.

Thus, we are guaranteed at least one more reading from Hockey of a different wolf and at least one more reading from the Witches at the cost of, potentially, one recruit which, knowing Idle is protecting himself tonight, would be patently obvious when someone else comes back, and we simply lynch them... whenever.

So, in essence, this plan would result in, AT WORST, an unrevealed roleclaim dead and sach (though, more likely,only one of those), in exchange for two more scum. Considering there's probably only three more left after MHaye and Cat, I think that would almost guarantee a town victory.

[Blaster Master]

NETA: Okay, I guess I lied about not laying it out in detail... I did lay most of the detail out. Though, some parts are probably not well explained.

[ShadowFacts]

Blaster, protect away, I say. Sounds wonderful.

But why not still string up Cat? Is it because of his claim that his special power will kill Dio? I think it would be a mistake to take anything he says at face value and plan from that. In fact, I'll say it right out: I don't believe he is the Necromancer.

[Hockey Monkey]

Unvote CatInASuit

Vote MHaye

[Idle Thoughts]

It occurs to me that those who are voting for Cat might be scum actually hoping he's telling the truth and able to take out Dio with him.

Me, I don't see the reasoning behind waiting on it. If he's telling the truth, well, that's bad for Town.

If he's lying and he is the Vamp, the Vig could just take him out this upcoming Night. Either way, we'd know.

And if Cat is still alive TomorroDay, we know there probably isn't a Vig. Much, much more certain than we would be if it was revered and MHaye was still left alive or was found dead. Because if we lynch Cat and MHaye is found dead after the Night, it could have been the real Vamp that killed him (and thus, everyone will think it was the Vig that did it). This is, of course, if Cat is telling the truth.

If Cat is lying, however, and we lynch him and MHaye shows up dead at Night, we know there is one...but if he's left alive, what does that say? Either this is a Vig in the game and they didn't want to take that chance (due to giving some belief to MHaye or there is no Vig. Two options there.

Whereas with Cat being left for the possible Vig toNight and surviving only has ONE option. That there IS NO VIG. Because if there is, I don't know why they wouldn't kill off Cat based on his confessions. He's a sure thing. MHaye, at least in my mind, would give birth to other possibilites if being left untouched OR dying.

Am I making any sense?

Well, to me I am and I bet to a lot of you I would be too but a lot will still keep their vote on Cat. Some, maybe, because they don't believe him. But others, I can bet, because they DO and hope that he takes Dio with him.


A lot of people say "Why are we doing what scum wants us to do?" But maybe they want to kill Cat off because they believe him. If he really is the Necro, obviously his Vampire will probably be voting for him.

I just see MHaye being the better choice right now. Because on the off chance we DO lose a Witch, there goes a large part of the game for Town. Because one Witch cannot provide protection for anyone or investigate anyone.

I think there is a chance we could..and some of you voting for Cat seem to be willing to take that chance happily.

[Idle Thoughts]

And what if they recruit Idle Thoughts? How will we distinguish between a self-enchanted Idle Thoughts and a recruited Idle Thoughts?

This is why it'd be helpful to have two Witches left.

Because if I ever die and come back, I can prove I'm not recruited by probably doing it again (resurrecting someone else). But obviously it won't work too well if/when the scum know I've already used the enchantment on myself and therefore couldn't again. If I ever am killed off and am self enchanting, once I come back it's curtains for me.

[Idle Thoughts]

Please don't poison the well. I am Town if you believe your own powers and I think we should stick with lynching Cat.

What does "believing in your own powers" have anything to do with it? What a crock. You're basicially trying to GET HIM to vote and hopefully kill off Cat even though it could spell the end for him.

That "believing in your own powers" and trying to guilt trip him is crap. His own powers, as far as I know, only said "Undead". This could mean Vampire OR Necromancer. So how is him not wanting to take the chance on it really being the latter doubting his own powers in any way? :dubious: :rolleyes:

You better cover up. Your scumminess is showing.

[Idle Thoughts]

Oh, and based on you being "Town"...you're just the Omega Wolf. Easy as pie to explain that.

[ShadowFacts]

What does "believing in your own powers" have anything to do with it? What a crock. You're basicially trying to GET HIM to vote and hopefully kill off Cat even though it could spell the end for him.

That "believing in your own powers" and trying to guilt trip him is crap. His own powers, as far as I know, only said "Undead". This could mean Vampire OR Necromancer. So how is him not wanting to take the chance on it really being the latter doubting his own powers in any way? :dubious: :rolleyes:

You better cover up. Your scumminess is showing.

You crack me up. :p

[Hockey Monkey]

snip

Targetting Idle would be foolish because, knowing Dio is protected, he can self-juju, which makes their kill wasted.

snip.

Am I the only one that got a grin out of the mental image of Idle self-juju-ing?

I swear sometimes I think I'm 10 yrs old.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Am I the only one that got a grin out of the mental image of Idle self-juju-ing?



I think so. I vomited a little in my mouth.

[DiggitCamara]

I disagree. I think it is eminently reasonable that Cat would lie and say anything to save his neck for another day and/or sow confusion.



(snip)

Absolutely. For instance: the Vampire is unkillable (by Night) except by the Vigilante. Since Pleonast has had fun adding secret clauses to some Roles, why wouldn't there be one that says that that Role kills the Vigilante if (s)he's targeted during the Night? And voilá, the Cat survives the Night, creates a new zombie and kills the Vigilante!

A weaker argument is that most of the Powers that scumRoles have are Night-related. Most of the Powers of townRoles are Day related. Wouldn't the narrative have a Necromancer having mostly Night-Powers? And wouldn't Cat's Role better be served by telling a half-truth?

[ShadowFacts]

Absolutely. For instance: the Vampire is unkillable (by Night) except by the Vigilante. Since Pleonast has had fun adding secret clauses to some Roles, why wouldn't there be one that says that that Role kills the Vigilante if (s)he's targeted during the Night? And voilá, the Cat survives the Night, creates a new zombie and kills the Vigilante!

Indeed, there is a lot we don't know, and taking Cat's claim at face value is very dangerous.

And this emerging meme/suggestion that all those who are voting for CatInASuit are scummy is troubling and should be examined carefully. It's interesting how quickly that Cat consensus dissolved and why.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Indeed, there is a lot we don't know, and taking Cat's claim at face value is very dangerous.

And this emerging meme/suggestion that all those who are voting for CatInASuit are scummy is troubling and should be examined carefully. It's interesting how quickly that Cat consensus dissolved and why.

Is it really that interesting? Cat has threatened the Witches. The role of an investigate/protect option for the town is a very helpful one for a town win. In the event that there is a Vig left in the town, we could avoid the risk that Cat's telling the truth, kill the likeliest lynch target for tomorrow today, and have the Vig eliminate Cat tonight. If Cat's alive tomorrow, it tells us we don't have a Vig, and welynchher tomorrow with the added bonus of another night of usage of the protect/investigate power.

[sachertorte]

What I don't get is why Idle Thoughts, he of the "I am the Avatar. I know it" claim, would so willingly believe CatInASuit's claim. I just don't get it. But then again, it seems that I rarely understand Idle Thoughts.

The most compelling (new) reason to go with MHaye is Blaster Master's gambit. If Blaster can guarantee Hockey Monkey's survival into the next day, then I see we have a 50% chance of Hockey Monkey determining scum Tomorrow, which she can report the Day after that. This is certainly more compelling than thinking that Hockey Monkey would make it far enough into future Days to report back actionable data without help.

So I am not as against the MHaye lynch as I was before, but I have a few points I need to think through.
<rambling follows>
Based on Diomedes's data, Blaster Master is NOT Cabal and NOT Undead. The Witch data does not preclude Blaster Master's being a Wolf; however, his wanting to lynch Wolf Candidate MHaye instead of undead candidate CatInASuit makes little sense for a Wolf. The only way Blaster Master could be a Wolf in this scenario is if MHaye is not a Wolf (unlikely).
So at this point I am trusting of Blaster Master's motives.

If I understand the plan correctly, Blaster Master will guarantee protection of himself and Hockey Monkey. Diomedes will be able to self-protect. Idle Thoughts will be able to self-enchant. Thus, the most important roles will be off the table from scum kills Tonight. Hopefully, a Vig will take out CatInASuit at Night.

Two die at night (probably me, but that's okay, I've already reported my secret).

Hockey Monkey can investigate a dead body (50% chance of guessing the wolf target), but needs to survive one more night to share the results.

Tomorrow, Lynch CatInASuit (if alive) or one of the unknowns.

Tomorrow Night, how do we guarantee Hockey Monkey lives to see morning? Also, this plan has a 50% success rate (or 50% failure rate for the pessimists).

As you can see, I'm close, but not fully onboard. Satisfy that Hockey can survive two nights, and we'll be in business.

[HazelNutCoffee]

A lot of people say "Why are we doing what scum wants us to do?" But maybe they want to kill Cat off because they believe him. If he really is the Necro, obviously his Vampire will probably be voting for him.

Why would the Vampire vote for CatInASuit? Perhaps I'm being dense, but killing Cat would practically ensure that the Undead would lose this game, wouldn't it? (Assuming that Cat is telling the truth; all the Zombies would die with him, leaving the Vampire as the only Undead left.) It's not as if the Vampire could save themself by sacrificing Cat. Unless they ended up being the only one standing, I suppose, which is possible but a rather risky plan at best.

Idle Thoughts has a point about lynching Cat vs MHaye. If we leave Cat for the night, likely the only person that's going to risk killing him is the Vig; I doubt the Wolves are going to risk one of their own on the off-chance that he ends up being the Vampire. If Cat ends up alive, we can be pretty sure there is no Vig, and we can lynch him tomorrow. On the other hand, a dead MHaye could mean a Vig OR it could mean the Wolves turned on one of their own.

Plus lynching MHaye would force the Wolves to use another killer, as has already been mentioned. There's no reason for the Wolves to switch killers unless forced.

[Pleonast]

Just posting to put my sig in a convenient place.

[Idle Thoughts]

And this emerging meme/suggestion that all those who are voting for CatInASuit are scummy is troubling and should be examined carefully. It's interesting how quickly that Cat consensus dissolved and why.

Bolding mine.

Who said this? I didn't see anyone say this. So if this is implying what I said, you might want to re-read it and stop twisting to to mean what you're saying there.

Well, to me I am and I bet to a lot of you I would be too but a lot will still keep their vote on Cat. Some, maybe, because they don't believe him. But others, I can bet, because they DO and hope that he takes Dio with him.

Bolding mine.

First of all, how what I say there is implausible, I don't know. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Second, how what I say there is: "all those who are voting for CatInASuit are scummy" (your words, verbatim) is beyond my comprehension. :confused:

[dotchan]

Plus lynching MHaye would force the Wolves to use another killer, as has already been mentioned. There's no reason for the Wolves to switch killers unless forced.

That depends on whether Mhaye can use his claim to explain any additional Night kills that get witnessed.

Pleonast, if a character is killed by a Warlock's curse, would the Detective's investigation result name the Warlock as the killer?

[Idle Thoughts]

By the way, why are we all listening to someone? Why don't the power roles just do what they want to do?

I mean, pardon me, but I know of two very possibly Witches now. Why wouldn't I want to talk to dead Rysto toNight and not only learn who the last Witch is but have both that Witch and Dio know I'm telling the truth from then on?

Not saying I'm going to do that toNight or not, but it puzzles me why some are willing to go along precise with someone's plan. Even, I, who feels Blaster is Town, wouldn't want everyone just to be led around. Why don't the power roles just all do what we think is best and most unexpected toNight instead of laying it all out and planning it all out. Because doing that, scum will find the loopholes or just do other things. I just feel it's best to keep them guessing rather than tell them exactly what we all should do toNight.

[HazelNutCoffee]

That depends on whether Mhaye can use his claim to explain any additional Night kills that get witnessed.

Pleonast, if a character is killed by a Warlock's curse, would the Detective's investigation result name the Warlock as the killer?
Are you suggesting that Masons have killing powers? :confused:

[Idle Thoughts]

What I don't get is why Idle Thoughts, he of the "I am the Avatar. I know it" claim, would so willingly believe CatInASuit's claim. I just don't get it. But then again, it seems that I rarely understand Idle Thoughts.

I don't fully believe it. I don't disbelieve it. I don't know what to think, to be honest, but I do think if there's any chance that a Witch will die then I think it's just best to lynch MHaye for now and then let the Vig take care of Cat. If Cat is the Vamp, he'll die. If Cat really is the Necro, he'll die, and we wouldn't want to kill him in the Day anyway. If Cat is still alive come morning, chances are there is no Vig.

Seems like a win-win.

[dotchan]

Are you suggesting that Masons have killing powers? :confused:

Mhaye claimed Warlock (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9094239&postcount=1219)

Warlock: each Night may enchant one Player. If that Player is killed, the killer will die the following Night. If the killer is a Vampire, the lethal curse will rebound onto the Warlock (he is not immune to his own magic).

Your confusion makes no sense, since the roles were already cleared up once when Diggitcamara seemed to think that some of the power-roles are among the freemasons.

[Pleonast]

Pleonast, if a character is killed by a Warlock's curse, would the Detective's investigation result name the Warlock as the killer?Yes. A Detective will determine the Identity of any killer, except a Vampire.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Why would the Vampire vote for CatInASuit? Perhaps I'm being dense, but killing Cat would practically ensure that the Undead would lose this game, wouldn't it? (Assuming that Cat is telling the truth; all the Zombies would die with him, leaving the Vampire as the only Undead left.) It's not as if the Vampire could save themself by sacrificing Cat. Unless they ended up being the only one standing, I suppose, which is possible but a rather risky plan at best.

Cat is already dead, for the other Undead's point of view. There's no way he (and his Zombies, if he's the necro) is going to last long enough to contribute to an undead endgame. The Vampire (and likely all the scum) will vote for him, in order to further his pan-scum win strategy, which involves ending the protection of the witches (which aids all the scum, particularly the Cabal, if there's any left) with his curse.

Who said this? I didn't see anyone say this. So if this is implying what I said, you might want to re-read it and stop twisting to to mean what you're saying there.
I said this, for all intents and purposes. It'd be really helpful if both you and Shadow would just fucking kiss and make up for the moment. You guys can vote for each other in the endgame, if it comes down to that.

Pleonast, if a character is killed by a Warlock's curse, would the Detective's investigation result name the Warlock as the killer?
I think I already asked this, way back in the pregame setup bit. The active killer is named as the killer, not the redirector. I think.


Are you suggesting that Masons have killing powers?
Yeah, even better. There's no way the Warlock's curse would have hit amrussell... amrussell is modconfirmed as a Mason.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

NETA: Sorry, I really should have added who each quote was by for that post.
HNC, Idle, dot and HNC again, in order.

[ShadowFacts]

Bolding mine.

Who said this? I didn't see anyone say this. So if this is implying what I said, you might want to re-read it and stop twisting to to mean what you're saying there.



Bolding mine.

First of all, how what I say there is implausible, I don't know. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Second, how what I say there is: "all those who are voting for CatInASuit are scummy" (your words, verbatim) is beyond my comprehension. :confused:

If you can actually show where I quote YOU and twist your words, then I will most humbly apologize.

(On preview: sorry, Dio, you're right. I'm going to stop it with Idle now).

[ShadowFacts]

I don't fully believe it. I don't disbelieve it. I don't know what to think, to be honest, but I do think if there's any chance that a Witch will die then I think it's just best to lynch MHaye for now and then let the Vig take care of Cat. If Cat is the Vamp, he'll die. If Cat really is the Necro, he'll die, and we wouldn't want to kill him in the Day anyway. If Cat is still alive come morning, chances are there is no Vig.

Seems like a win-win.

As much as I hate to admit it, since I am convinced you are scum, what you say here (and Blaster and Dio before you) makes sense. I don't really want to unvote Cat because:
* that's what he wants us to do
* I think he is lying and is really the Vampire, and I don't want to give him another night to kill

However, I believe that Blaster is town, and if he can protect most of the imprtant roles, then that eases my mind on the second point.

My question is this, though: what happens if Cat survives the night? I would say, based on the numnber of kills so far, that it's probably 50/50 there is no Vig. And if there isn't, we're going to have to lynch Cat toMorrow anyway, right? Are we willing to chance Dio's life then or do we let him live again on account of his claim?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

My question is this, though: what happens if Cat survives the night? I would say, based on the numnber of kills so far, that it's probably 50/50 there is no Vig. And if there isn't, we're going to have to lynch Cat toMorrow anyway, right? Are we willing to chance Dio's life then or do we let him live again on account of his claim?

If Cat survives the night, we lynch him, unless we somehow pull the other undead's name out of somewhere. If I die then, then I die. But I really think an extra day will be helpful. Sorry if I can't elaborate more on this.

[ShadowFacts]

If Cat survives the night, we lynch him, unless we somehow pull the other undead's name out of somewhere. If I die then, then I die. But I really think an extra day will be helpful. Sorry if I can't elaborate more on this.

No problem - please don't give anything away. I just wanted to make sure we weren't giving Cat a continual pass due to his threat.

I'm mostly convinced.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Your confusion makes no sense, since the roles were already cleared up once when Diggitcamara seemed to think that some of the power-roles are among the freemasons.
The only way Mhaye could be a Warlock and kill amrussell was if amrussell had tried to kill someone himself. At least, as far as I can see.

[Hockey Monkey]

The only way Mhaye could be a Warlock and kill amrussell was if amrussell had tried to kill someone himself. At least, as far as I can see.

Exactly. MHaye is not a Warlock because amrussell was a Freemason with no known kill powers. Since I know that MHaye was amrussell's killer, and the two conditions cannot exist simultaniously, MHaye is lying.

[Idle Thoughts]

As much as I hate to admit it, since I am convinced you are scum, what you say here (and Blaster and Dio before you) makes sense. I don't really want to unvote Cat because:
* that's what he wants us to do
* I think he is lying and is really the Vampire, and I don't want to give him another night to kill

However, I believe that Blaster is town, and if he can protect most of the imprtant roles, then that eases my mind on the second point.

My question is this, though: what happens if Cat survives the night? I would say, based on the numnber of kills so far, that it's probably 50/50 there is no Vig. And if there isn't, we're going to have to lynch Cat toMorrow anyway, right? Are we willing to chance Dio's life then or do we let him live again on account of his claim?

If Cat survives the Night, it won't matter anymore since I will have talked with Rysto and

1. Become, in a sense, another Witch (only without the powers) in the regards that I know who they are, for sure and they know who I am, for sure.
2. Be able to be confirmed by them that I really am Town and a/the Witchdoctor.

[Idle Thoughts]

If you can actually show where I quote YOU and twist your words, then I will most humbly apologize.

(On preview: sorry, Dio, you're right. I'm going to stop it with Idle now).

You didn't quote anyone in that post, so how can I do that? But you did say "these suggestions that everyone who votes for Cat are scum" so you must have been talking about someone.

Dio has said that he said that, but so did I, even before seeing any post he made addressing it. And just knowing your habit of seemingly twisting things I've done or said, it reads like that post could regard me (alone or as well as).

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You didn't quote anyone in that post, so how can I do that? But you did say "these suggestions that everyone who votes for Cat are scum" so you must have been talking about someone.

Dio has said that he said that, but so did I, even before seeing any post he made addressing it. And just knowing your habit of seemingly twisting things I've done or said, it reads like that post could regard me (alone or as well as).


Idle. Nobody's lynching you or Shadow today. Or tomorrow. Let's focus on the matters at hand.

[Idle Thoughts]

Awww...no Shadow lynch toDay? :(

Oh....okay....*kicks stone and goes off to sulk*

[HazelNutCoffee]

I feel like I'm going to be scarce tomorrow - it's midterms week and I am buried in papers to grade - so I'm going to go ahead and

vote MHaye

[CatInASuit]

Planning from the scumside:

Well having read Blaster Master's plan, its time for a little counterstrategy.

He may or may not be lying, the question is, is it worth trying to find him out. A no-kill by the wolves means that Hockey Monkey has nothing to go on to reveal another wolf. Consider if it is that bad thing or not.

If the Cabal are still around, I would not consider trying to block Blaster Master, but Diomedes, if he is still around, to prevent him gaining any new information. Blocking Idle Thoughts, as per my previous comments, does nothing to assist us on this night.

This will force Blaster Master, if he is not lying and can cover more players, to include Diomedes as a protect. If he is lying, then Diomedes is open. If he can only protect two players, then he has to leave one of them open.

Killing sachertorte is not a bad idea. It removes a known town player and causes confusion over who has been killed. Confusion helps us more than it helps the town.

Idle Thoughts is curently Mr WIFOM, there are better targets methinks.

I think the wolves and vampires should not try going into the unknown pool, unless you have got a complete lock on the third witch. Leave that pool as large as possible.

I would suggest our night kill roles look at the mostly confirmed townies and take them out. BM, HM, Dio, Sachertorte

Hey, planning for the scum is fun :D

[Blaster Master]

What I don't get is why Idle Thoughts, he of the "I am the Avatar. I know it" claim, would so willingly believe CatInASuit's claim. I just don't get it. But then again, it seems that I rarely understand Idle Thoughts.

The most compelling (new) reason to go with MHaye is Blaster Master's gambit. If Blaster can guarantee Hockey Monkey's survival into the next day, then I see we have a 50% chance of Hockey Monkey determining scum Tomorrow, which she can report the Day after that. This is certainly more compelling than thinking that Hockey Monkey would make it far enough into future Days to report back actionable data without help.

So I am not as against the MHaye lynch as I was before, but I have a few points I need to think through.
<rambling follows>
Based on Diomedes's data, Blaster Master is NOT Cabal and NOT Undead. The Witch data does not preclude Blaster Master's being a Wolf; however, his wanting to lynch Wolf Candidate MHaye instead of undead candidate CatInASuit makes little sense for a Wolf. The only way Blaster Master could be a Wolf in this scenario is if MHaye is not a Wolf (unlikely).
So at this point I am trusting of Blaster Master's motives.

If I understand the plan correctly, Blaster Master will guarantee protection of himself and Hockey Monkey. Diomedes will be able to self-protect. Idle Thoughts will be able to self-enchant. Thus, the most important roles will be off the table from scum kills Tonight. Hopefully, a Vig will take out CatInASuit at Night.

Two die at night (probably me, but that's okay, I've already reported my secret).

Hockey Monkey can investigate a dead body (50% chance of guessing the wolf target), but needs to survive one more night to share the results.

Tomorrow, Lynch CatInASuit (if alive) or one of the unknowns.

Tomorrow Night, how do we guarantee Hockey Monkey lives to see morning? Also, this plan has a 50% success rate (or 50% failure rate for the pessimists).

As you can see, I'm close, but not fully onboard. Satisfy that Hockey can survive two nights, and we'll be in business.

You have most of the plan laid out well. And, you are correct that Hockey Monkey will need to survive another Night. I have more to my plan for that as well; however, I do not believe it is in the town's best interest for me to reveal that portion at this time. As I am guaranteeing the survival of all of the roles necessary to that portion of the plan, I would prefer to reveal it Tomorrow in light of the Day's lynch, the Night's deaths, and a full role-claim on my behalf.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I would suggest our night kill roles look at the mostly confirmed townies and take them out. [B]BM, HM, Dio, Sachertorte

Hey, planning for the scum is fun :D

Would you quit it? Scum aren't allowed to plan out in the open! Go find the Vicar and pray for your salvation in the soon-to-come afterlife! :D

[Blaster Master]

By the way, why are we all listening to someone? Why don't the power roles just do what they want to do?

I mean, pardon me, but I know of two very possibly Witches now. Why wouldn't I want to talk to dead Rysto toNight and not only learn who the last Witch is but have both that Witch and Dio know I'm telling the truth from then on?

Not saying I'm going to do that toNight or not, but it puzzles me why some are willing to go along precise with someone's plan. Even, I, who feels Blaster is Town, wouldn't want everyone just to be led around. Why don't the power roles just all do what we think is best and most unexpected toNight instead of laying it all out and planning it all out. Because doing that, scum will find the loopholes or just do other things. I just feel it's best to keep them guessing rather than tell them exactly what we all should do toNight.

Idle, it is NOT in your best interest to even consider speaking with Rysto tonight. We have no remote reason to believe Dio is anything but a Witch, and if he is, it will be easily revealed after Tonight that he's a liar. Otherwise, he's pretty much assured to survive the Night.

Since your speaking is only a one time power, it is best left for a situation when there isn't a living witch to reveal the information for us. Further, part of my plan for Tomorrow involves you remaining alive which is why I requested you self-juju.

I really can't POSSIBLY see WHY you'd think it'd be a good idea to use your one time power to talk to a Witch when we still have two more alive, with one revealed.

[Blaster Master]

Hey, planning for the scum is fun :D

:D

[Freudian Slit]

Just getting caught up now...have been busy/having difficulties.

Okay. I'm getting my vote in now because I'm afraid I might not be around/have Internet access this time tomorrow. I guess MHaye seems like a surer thing. Plus, I have a soft spot for Diomedes, ever since his panicked "Dio not scum!" outburst the other Night.

I'm also having a lot of trouble seeing CatInASuit as a girl. You'd think the suit aspect of it would help, but noooo.

unvote CatInASuit

vote MHaye

[Santo Rugger]

Ok, I wanted to say this yesterday, but I thought it'd be better to wait until my status was revealed in Firefly.

For those of you that aren't aware, scum lie. I know this, I've played four games as scum so far.

Every single one of my teammates in Firefly who was at the gallows lied. It's kind of fun, actually, trying to fabricate a story that you can get the whole town to believe. For example, look at me claiming Doctor in the Asylum game.

What's my point, you ask? CatinaSuit is lying, and he's even messing with all your heads with his whole "planning" posts. Although I can see where he's coming from, being scum so many times, in that he'd rather have a scum side win than the town side, if he was going to lose anyway, the problem is that he hasn't lost yet. This is just an elaborate scheme. Not only did he make up a way to be able to kill a witch, he also tried to get buddy-buddy with the other scum factions, to try and help his cause.

I think there's absolutely zero chance that he's telling the truth about his extra power, because scum lie. Why in the world would he tell us that he could take out a witch, instead of just doing it? He picked a role that nobody in their right mind would counterclaim.

My vote stands.

[Blaster Master]

Ok, I wanted to say this yesterday, but I thought it'd be better to wait until my status was revealed in Firefly.

For those of you that aren't aware, scum lie. I know this, I've played four games as scum so far.

Every single one of my teammates in Firefly who was at the gallows lied. It's kind of fun, actually, trying to fabricate a story that you can get the whole town to believe. For example, look at me claiming Doctor in the Asylum game.

What's my point, you ask? CatinaSuit is lying, and he's even messing with all your heads with his whole "planning" posts. Although I can see where he's coming from, being scum so many times, in that he'd rather have a scum side win than the town side, if he was going to lose anyway, the problem is that he hasn't lost yet. This is just an elaborate scheme. Not only did he make up a way to be able to kill a witch, he also tried to get buddy-buddy with the other scum factions, to try and help his cause.

I think there's absolutely zero chance that he's telling the truth about his extra power, because scum lie. Why in the world would he tell us that he could take out a witch, instead of just doing it? He picked a role that nobody in their right mind would counterclaim.

My vote stands.

I will agree that he is probably lying; however, what we have to do is a risk-benefit analysis. I laid out the six possibilities between the actuality of his power, his true role, and whom we lynch. Of those six, we only benefit IF he is the vampire and then only by having one fewer kill attempt tonight, where the negative, we at least still get new info for Hockey whom will live long enough to give the information to us. Meanwhile, the negative if he's telling the truth is, we lose a confirmed townie, the ability for him to confirm the other witch, the added protection or information they would provide, and whatever secret power he has, but has not yet explained to us.

IOW, yes, I agree that the probability of the latter is small, but the risk is enormous; meanwhile, probability for the former is larger, but the risk is negligible at worst and POSSIBLY in our favor, if they decide to go after the third Witch or perhaps another power-role in the unconfirmed pool and miss and hit scum.

[dotchan]

Undead = bad, Necromancer = bad, Vampire = bad. If CatInASuit is indeed the Necromancer, than lynching him now puts a stop to the zombies. CatInASuit is the Vampire, then lynching him now puts a stop to one of the Night kills.

Lynching Mhaye would only be an equivalent exchange if Mhaye is the last werewolf (and according to the various investigation results there are at most 3 left including Mhaye).

I'd rather lynch Cat toDay and have any potential vig take out Mhaye toNight. (Because if Cat really did have a Bomb ability, I think he would have more likely kept quiet about it, then gloated after he blew up on Diomedes or whomever.)

My vote stands as well.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>

IOW, yes, I agree that the probability of the latter is small, but the risk is enormous; meanwhile, probability for the former is larger, but the risk is negligible at worst and POSSIBLY in our favor, if they decide to go after the third Witch or perhaps another power-role in the unconfirmed pool and miss and hit scum.

I believe the probability of the latter is zero.

[DiggitCamara]

Ok, I wanted to say this yesterday, but I thought it'd be better to wait until my status was revealed in Firefly.

For those of you that aren't aware, scum lie. I know this, I've played four games as scum so far.

Every single one of my teammates in Firefly who was at the gallows lied. It's kind of fun, actually, trying to fabricate a story that you can get the whole town to believe. For example, look at me claiming Doctor in the Asylum game.

What's my point, you ask? CatinaSuit is lying, and he's even messing with all your heads with his whole "planning" posts. Although I can see where he's coming from, being scum so many times, in that he'd rather have a scum side win than the town side, if he was going to lose anyway, the problem is that he hasn't lost yet. This is just an elaborate scheme. Not only did he make up a way to be able to kill a witch, he also tried to get buddy-buddy with the other scum factions, to try and help his cause.

I think there's absolutely zero chance that he's telling the truth about his extra power, because scum lie. Why in the world would he tell us that he could take out a witch, instead of just doing it? He picked a role that nobody in their right mind would counterclaim.

My vote stands.
Heh. You don't know how many times I was about to disclose your "perfect record" as scum during this game. Good thing you did it now.

Still, I must agree with you.

Blaster Master asked why HockeyMonkey would involve MHaye in her false claim. The answer is rather simple: the scum need the Vigilante out of the way. Now. Look at the Deaths of the past Nights. My guess is at least during two Nights our Vigilante has correctly picked scum as his/her target.

And look at HockeyMonkey's claim. She was actually stressing the need to kill MHaye during the Night! (which would make the Vigilante commit suicide if (s)he followed it through). Sure, afterward B]HockeyMonkey[/B] would be toast as well, but at least the Vigilante wouldn't be picking the scum off one by one.

And why are we following admitted scum's pretty transparent plan? (I'm talking about CatInTheSuit). If, as he says, he had this "bomb" assigned to him, why would he even have told us? Like he himself said, the best use of his supposed power to insure a scum win would be to hide it to kill Dio, not to disclose it!

So, instead, he discloses false information. His real Role isn't the Necromancer but (probably) the Vampire. He survives until toNight and even if the Vigilante kills him, he adds another Death toNight and the Necromancer will have at least one more Night to increase the number of zombies... which incidentally helps CatInTheSuit's win condition.

My vote stands.

[DiggitCamara]

I will agree that he is probably lying; however, what we have to do is a risk-benefit analysis. I laid out the six possibilities between the actuality of his power, his true role, and whom we lynch. Of those six, we only benefit IF he is the vampire and then only by having one fewer kill attempt tonight, where the negative, we at least still get new info for Hockey whom will live long enough to give the information to us. Meanwhile, the negative if he's telling the truth is, we lose a confirmed townie, the ability for him to confirm the other witch, the added protection or information they would provide, and whatever secret power he has, but has not yet explained to us.

IOW, yes, I agree that the probability of the latter is small, but the risk is enormous; meanwhile, probability for the former is larger, but the risk is negligible at worst and POSSIBLY in our favor, if they decide to go after the third Witch or perhaps another power-role in the unconfirmed pool and miss and hit scum.
Question: why do you accept HockeyMonkey's claim as the unvarnished truth? Why do you dismiss MHaye's version as absolute lie?

[Blaster Master]

Question: why do you accept HockeyMonkey's claim as the unvarnished truth? Why do you dismiss MHaye's version as absolute lie?

I have reasons to believe Hockey Monkey's claim independent of MHaye's claim as a consequence of my own actions as part of my role. However, I cannot present my reasoning without a full role claim, which I will do most likely do Tomorrow. Thus, from that perspective, MHaye's claim does not make sense because he has not offered any explanation to satisfy her reading.

[Blaster Master]

I believe the probability of the latter is zero.

That would be foolish. I can assure you there are times when scum WILL speak truth, specifically when it will serve them to know parts of it OR when they think it will not be believed. With a mindset such that scum will ALWAYS lie, you set yourself up to be fooled when they do not.

I postulate that it is non-zero (though still likely small) and, that the risk associated with it is very large, when we can, instead, choose one with a higher level of predictability and with virtually no risk.

You continue to insist that he MUST be lying, but you are not addressing the point I put forth about the negligible, at worst, risk applied to the other case. So... What makes you so sure he MUST be lying? Why are you ignoring my case for the negligible nature of the alternative?

[DiggitCamara]

That would be foolish. I can assure you there are times when scum WILL speak truth, specifically when it will serve them to know parts of it OR when they think it will not be believed. With a mindset such that scum will ALWAYS lie, you set yourself up to be fooled when they do not.

I postulate that it is non-zero (though still likely small) and, that the risk associated with it is very large, when we can, instead, choose one with a higher level of predictability and with virtually no risk.

You continue to insist that he MUST be lying, but you are not addressing the point I put forth about the negligible, at worst, risk applied to the other case. So... What makes you so sure he MUST be lying? Why are you ignoring my case for the negligible nature of the alternative?
Simple: he doesn't want to get killed without advancing his own cause.

Having been outed, his goal right now is to survive this Day so he can use his Night action. And help advance his win condition.

[Blaster Master]

Undead = bad, Necromancer = bad, Vampire = bad. If CatInASuit is indeed the Necromancer, than lynching him now puts a stop to the zombies. CatInASuit is the Vampire, then lynching him now puts a stop to one of the Night kills.

Lynching Mhaye would only be an equivalent exchange if Mhaye is the last werewolf (and according to the various investigation results there are at most 3 left including Mhaye).

I'd rather lynch Cat toDay and have any potential vig take out Mhaye toNight. (Because if Cat really did have a Bomb ability, I think he would have more likely kept quiet about it, then gloated after he blew up on Diomedes or whomever.)

My vote stands as well.

Dear God... is EVERYONE ignoring my logic? PLEASE go back and reread my post where I stated the six possible outcomes within the context of my plan. The probability that the kills will double-up, be wasted on a protected role, or be forced into the unconfirmed pool, are very high, thus the extra kill attempt is negligible. Plus, we gain the bonus of ensuring Hockey Monkey gets an extra read. And we account for the possibility, however small it may be, that Cat IS telling the truth.

I would GLADLY take an extra kill attempt that will either likely double up, be wasted, or even be beneficial to the town in exchange for gaining one more read from Hockey Monkey (giving us one scum) AND at least one more read from the Witches. That two scum for a CHANCE at losing a townie.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
You continue to insist that he MUST be lying, but you are not addressing the point I put forth about the negligible, at worst, risk applied to the other case. So... What makes you so sure he MUST be lying? Why are you ignoring my case for the negligible nature of the alternative?

Because it's advantageous for scum to at least twist the facts in some fashion. You know this, I know this.

I'm ignoring your case for the alternative, because it assumes that a lot of claimed roles are telling the truth, when there's a non zero chance that one of 'em is pulling the rules over our eyes, and the plan goes to shite.

[Blaster Master]

Simple: he doesn't want to get killed without advancing his own cause.

Having been outed, his goal right now is to survive this Day so he can use his Night action. And help advance his win condition.

I don't dispute that. However, here's what you're missing:

If he's the necromancer, he's only a danger when the zombie count plus two approaches the town's total population minus two. That will not occur tonight. Thus, if he is the necromancer, leaving him alive poses no threat to the town.

If he is the vampire, it results in one extra kill attempt, with most of the valuable roles covered, and the one that is not, it will likely be hit by the wolves ANYWAY, which means he either wastes it by calling my bluff, wastes it by doubling up on the same target (neither of which results in an extra death) or he targets the unconfirmed pool which has a large chance of hitting scum and a low chance town, and only one role, the third witch, is of a lot of value to the town, but neither side can afford to make that pool smaller, and the witch is probably well hidden.

In fact, I don't think the scum have the balls to go for the third witch because, based on their kill pattern thus far, they've been taking a lot of safe shots. In fact, I'd give big odds that they're too chicken to try.

[Blaster Master]

Because it's advantageous for scum to at least twist the facts in some fashion. You know this, I know this.

I'm ignoring your case for the alternative, because it assumes that a lot of claimed roles are telling the truth, when there's a non zero chance that one of 'em is pulling the rules over our eyes, and the plan goes to shite.

So whom do you doubt? Do you doubt Sach? I'd give him pretty damn close to 100% confirmed. Based on that, and the fact the he actually called out Cat and Cat afterward admitted to it, I'd give Dio pretty damn close to 100% confirmed. Based on the quality of her claim, and information privy to me based on my actions as my role, I am very confident in Hockey's Claim, and MHaye has given us no credible reason to doubt her. Hell, all he said was that he was a Warlock, meanwhile EVERY other claim has had secret powers... seems MIGHTY fishy to me.

I am 100% confident in my plan, for more reasons than I can divulge at this point, to the point, which I've said, if Hockey Monkey shows up dead tomorrow, I will submit myself to a lynch at the town's leisure because I'll be nasty lying scum. Meanwhile, there's NOTHING to lose, because she'd be unprotected tonight ANYWAY.

Seriously, you're casting a lot of doubt on my plan without any real reasons. Could it be because you're a Wolf, or an Undead and you're not pleased with how the next Day or Two look for your team?

[Santo Rugger]

Could it be because you are not confirmed, and you could be lying?

[DiggitCamara]

So whom do you doubt? Do you doubt Sach? I'd give him pretty damn close to 100% confirmed. Based on that, and the fact the he actually called out Cat and Cat afterward admitted to it, I'd give Dio pretty damn close to 100% confirmed. Based on the quality of her claim, and information privy to me based on my actions as my role, I am very confident in Hockey's Claim, and MHaye has given us no credible reason to doubt her. Hell, all he said was that he was a Warlock, meanwhile EVERY other claim has had secret powers... seems MIGHTY fishy to me.

I am 100% confident in my plan, for more reasons than I can divulge at this point, to the point, which I've said, if Hockey Monkey shows up dead tomorrow, I will submit myself to a lynch at the town's leisure because I'll be nasty lying scum. Meanwhile, there's NOTHING to lose, because she'd be unprotected tonight ANYWAY.

Seriously, you're casting a lot of doubt on my plan without any real reasons. Could it be because you're a Wolf, or an Undead and you're not pleased with how the next Day or Two look for your team?

And therein lies the rub, doesn't it? You're saying you believe HockeyMonkey because you have special information about her. I don't.

I do however know that CatInTheSuit has admitted he is scum, albeit with mysterious powers that allow him to kill someone if he's lynched (and, which, in view of his supposed Role doesn't even make sense; it would be a simple revenge kill which wouldn't make him win anyway). Hence I follow the simple rule: I see confirmed scum and lynch that scum.

My vote stands.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Could it be because you are not confirmed, and you could be lying?

Blaster is either town or the Omega. For now, I think we should assume that both he and Shadow are Town, as they've been discovered.

[Santo Rugger]

Blaster is either town or the Omega. For now, I think we should assume that both he and Shadow are Town, as they've been discovered.

"...as they've been discovered."?

Why should we assume that?

[DiggitCamara]

Blaster is either town or the Omega. For now, I think we should assume that both he and Shadow are Town, as they've been discovered.
Right.

And I think I can guess his Role. But I also think I can guess the Cat's true Role.

And Blaster thinks that he can protect people (or at least outbluff the scum). But he can't protect anyone (I guess) from recruitment. And the worst case scenario which he doesn't take into consideration is for the Vampire to survive the Day, infect (or recruit) during the Night and actually make the situation worse for the Town. (In case you're not understanding me: in case we don't lynch the Cat, he'll probably recruit someone, preferably confirmed, under guise of a failed Nightkill and none would be the wiser)

[dotchan]

Ok, I went back to reread Blaster's possibilities...

I don't think Pleonast is bastardy enough to make CatInASuit's Bomb role work for Night kills as well, so it now comes down to whether I believe Hockeymonkey (and by extension Blaster Master) and lynch an unknown instead of lynching a confessed scumbag.

[Keanu Reaves]
Woah, Deja vu
[/Keanu Reaves]

It is a little worrying that mhaye hasn't posted anything since the 21st.

Since we have somewhere around 24 hours before the deadline..I think I'll ponder myself into a headache (again, sigh) a little longer before making my final decision.

[Blaster Master]

Right.

And I think I can guess his Role. But I also think I can guess the Cat's true Role.

And Blaster thinks that he can protect people (or at least outbluff the scum). But he can't protect anyone (I guess) from recruitment. And the worst case scenario which he doesn't take into consideration is for the Vampire to survive the Day, infect (or recruit) during the Night and actually make the situation worse for the Town. (In case you're not understanding me: in case we don't lynch the Cat, he'll probably recruit someone, preferably confirmed, under guise of a failed Nightkill and none would be the wiser)

IIRC, according to Sach, the recruiting power would look mysteriously like a Witch Doctor protection. Thus, particularly in light of the roles at hand, a recruitment meaningless because we will either have to guess between whether he was recruited, or whether Idle claims to have jujued him. If it's the latter, it's a recruitment, it's meaningless because it'll just be an lynch we'd have to use ANYWAY.

Plus, I ALSO happen to know, as an extension of my role, that some roles are immune to recruitment. How do I know this? Because MY role is immune to recruitment (based on a question raised to Pleo after the discussion of recruitment came up). Based on this knowledge, it is easy to surmise that it is possible that there are other pro-town roles that would also be immune to recruitment. I would ALSO suspect that the scum either were aware of this, or were suspecting it, and so wouldn't use it on a role that would likely be immune

[Pleonast]

About twenty-three hours to go. By my count, the votes are tied which will mean no lynch.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

"...as they've been discovered."?

Why should we assume that?


Is there any doubt in your mind that I'm a witch? Or that I investigated the two of them?

[ShadowFacts]

About twenty-three hours to go. By my count, the votes are tied which will mean no lynch.

I'm still not 100% convinced that this is the right thing to do. In fact, it gives me a sinking feeling in my gut, but I'm going to trust Blaster and Dio on this one and

Unvote CatInASuit
Vote MHaye

[Idle Thoughts]

Idle, it is NOT in your best interest to even consider speaking with Rysto tonight. We have no remote reason to believe Dio is anything but a Witch, and if he is, it will be easily revealed after Tonight that he's a liar. Otherwise, he's pretty much assured to survive the Night.

Since your speaking is only a one time power, it is best left for a situation when there isn't a living witch to reveal the information for us. Further, part of my plan for Tomorrow involves you remaining alive which is why I requested you self-juju.

I really can't POSSIBLY see WHY you'd think it'd be a good idea to use your one time power to talk to a Witch when we still have two more alive, with one revealed.

You play your role and I'll play mine.

If you are true Town, don't be so quick to put a lack of faith in me.


Just getting caught up now...have been busy/having difficulties.

Okay. I'm getting my vote in now because I'm afraid I might not be around/have Internet access this time tomorrow. I guess MHaye seems like a surer thing. Plus, I have a soft spot for Diomedes, ever since his panicked "Dio not scum!" outburst the other Night.

[quote]I'm also having a lot of trouble seeing CatInASuit as a girl. You'd think the suit aspect of it would help, but noooo.

He recently changed his name. The letters of each word never used to be capitalized. It used to read: Catinasuit

The "everyone thinking he was female" is what made him change the letters of the new words to caps

Undead = bad, Necromancer = bad, Vampire = bad. If CatInASuit is indeed the Necromancer, than lynching him now puts a stop to the zombies.

And possibly kills off one of the Witches.

I read the rest even though it's snipped. Me, I can see it going both ways. If I were really the Avatar (and knew it) in MV, I would have said it at the end saying "fine. I'm this. Take your chances". Heck, I even did it not knowing if I was but hoping I would be it.

I can see someone, if they had a curse power on them, possibly revealing it and making people scared to vote for them.

If he's lying (and is a Vamp):

1. The Vig can kill him at Night.
2. If alive by morning, there is no Vig--and we kill him that Day

If he's telling the truth (and is a Necro):

1. His secret power very well could be real.
2. We'd lose a Witch.
3. The Vig can kill him at Night
4. If alive by Dawn--there is no Vig--and we kill him that Day
5. If dead by Dawn--there MAY be a Vig or scum may have killed him
6. If 5, great for us.

*shrugs* I just feel it's a bit better to wait, just in case.

I still have a few posts to go before I'm fully caught up.

[Idle Thoughts]

Blaster is either town or the Omega. For now, I think we should assume that both he and Shadow are Town, as they've been discovered.

And this is the only reason I'm not highly suspicious of BM myself. Because if ANYONE is the Omega, it's got to be..

...hey...


...HEY!

Leggo, Dio. Take your hand off of my mouth! Okay, okay! I'll shut up. Sheesh.

[Blaster Master]

You play your role and I'll play mine.

If you are true Town, don't be so quick to put a lack of faith in me.

You seem to be insistent on talking to Rysto, and I don't understand the logic behind it. To me, it would be like going "Hey Dio, you can investigate, why don't you look at MHaye and double check Hockey Monkey's reading?"

In my mind, you're saying "I'm going to talk to Rysto, just to be sure"... for what, to find out who the other Witch is? I expect that Dio will self-protect Tonight... he can tell us Tomorrow, if the Witches think it's a good idea.

[sachertorte]

You play your role and I'll play mine.

If you are true Town, don't be so quick to put a lack of faith in me.
What a laugh. :rolleyes:

[Blaster Master]

And this is the only reason I'm not highly suspicious of BM myself. Because if ANYONE is the Omega, it's got to be..

...hey...


...HEY!

Leggo, Dio. Take your hand off of my mouth! Okay, okay! I'll shut up. Sheesh.

My, Idle, for someone who's questioning my towniness, you sure throw a lot of baseless smudges around. :dubious:

For now, we have two very reasonable lynch candidates. If you want to harp on some suspicion that I'm not pro-town, you may want to wait until at least tomorrow, when a lot more information, and I'll likely be making my role-claim, otherwise, well... I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You seem to be insistent on talking to Rysto, and I don't understand the logic behind it. To me, it would be like going "Hey Dio, you can investigate, why don't you look at MHaye and double check Hockey Monkey's reading?"

In my mind, you're saying "I'm going to talk to Rysto, just to be sure"... for what, to find out who the other Witch is? I expect that Dio will self-protect Tonight... he can tell us Tomorrow, if the Witches think it's a good idea.

But seriously, Idle, talking to Rysto isn't going to be that advantageous to you. Let me say first that I've already placed a few choice pointers as to whom the third witch is, so you being able to verify him in the case of my untimely death isn't going to help. And that's not even getting into the fact that if I'm dead, people who already distrust you won't trust what you say about the results of talking to Rysto any more. Still, if you want to spend your investigative skills productively, trying working on putting together a step-by-step case against someone (even if its Shadow) for the possibility that the Vig kills Cat tonight, and we don't have an obvious lynch target for tomorrow.
Eventually, however, we're going to know all three witch identities, know that at least one of the two of Blaster or Shadow is town, and you, Hockey and sache are town. Ridding the town of the rest of the scum should be fairly easy, if you can come up with good logical cases against any of the others, as long as they're not just based on your hunches.

[Idle Thoughts]

You seem to be insistent on talking to Rysto, and I don't understand the logic behind it. To me, it would be like going "Hey Dio, you can investigate, why don't you look at MHaye and double check Hockey Monkey's reading?"

In my mind, you're saying "I'm going to talk to Rysto, just to be sure"... for what, to find out who the other Witch is? I expect that Dio will self-protect Tonight... he can tell us Tomorrow, if the Witches think it's a good idea.

Unless Dio or the other Witch is dead.


My, Idle, for someone who's questioning my towniness, you sure throw a lot of baseless smudges around. :dubious:

For now, we have two very reasonable lynch candidates. If you want to harp on some suspicion that I'm not pro-town, you may want to wait until at least tomorrow, when a lot more information, and I'll likely be making my role-claim, otherwise, well... I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

The only suspicion I have against you is mild and hinges on the fact that you are so sure of your plan when I can think of one main flaw right off the bat. That if there is at least one Cabalist left, they could just block you (or any other role they see fit that they happen to believe the claim of) and then your plan doesn't work out so well.

You seem to think that everyone should follow this plan, too and anyone who voices otherwise, you seem to be telling them how to play their role.

So like I said above, why don't all the roles just play how they see fit and do what they think is best for Town if they are true Town power roles? I can't really see how that would be a bad thing.

[Idle Thoughts]

But seriously, Idle, talking to Rysto isn't going to be that advantageous to you. .

Rest snipped.

Like I said to BM, how about you just have faith in me if you are true Town? I'm not telling you how to play your role or making suggestions.

If you don't trust me, that's fine. But don't insult me in thinking I'm as stupid as you may think I am right now.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Rest snipped.

Like I said to BM, how about you just have faith in me if you are true Town? I'm not telling you how to play your role or making suggestions.

If you don't trust me, that's fine. But don't insult me in thinking I'm as stupid as you may think I am right now.

Sorry, my bad.

[Idle Thoughts]

S'ok

[Blaster Master]

The only suspicion I have against you is mild and hinges on the fact that you are so sure of your plan when I can think of one main flaw right off the bat. That if there is at least one Cabalist left, they could just block you (or any other role they see fit that they happen to believe the claim of) and then your plan doesn't work out so well.

You seem to think that everyone should follow this plan, too and anyone who voices otherwise, you seem to be telling them how to play their role.

So like I said above, why don't all the roles just play how they see fit and do what they think is best for Town if they are true Town power roles? I can't really see how that would be a bad thing.

First of all, as I said, my plan, if it fails, costs the town nothing, because Hockey Monkey would have no protection at all Tonight. Second of all, there's very likely NOT any Cabalists left. Third, they CAN'T block Witches (which means Dio won't be blocked) and it's not in their interest to attempt to block me, because Hockey Monkey is helpful to them, because she can't identify any of them, and will help the town focus on eliminating other scum than themselves. In fact, the Cabalists best shot is to stay alive, since it just wouldn't make sense to have more than one left if any, which means blocking Night kills like, say, maybe Cat or MHaye (whichever survives Today) or someone else they think is likely to be a Night killer.

I DO agree with letting roles play as they see fit. I also think it's a good idea to give advice. And I think it is very foolish to talk to Rysto Tonight, because I see no reason to believe Dio will not be alive tomorrow. And doing so will do nothing to support your claim either. What will you do... out the other Witch? Maybe go "See, I knew that already" when he is forced to claim?

[Blaster Master]

Rest snipped.

Like I said to BM, how about you just have faith in me if you are true Town? I'm not telling you how to play your role or making suggestions.

If you don't trust me, that's fine. But don't insult me in thinking I'm as stupid as you may think I am right now.


And, NETA: Do take your own advice. ;) I assure you, my plan is more solid than you make it appear, and it IS based on information that you do not have. I have given sufficient information to make my intentions clear and support my reasoning for that... the rest you'll just have to rest on from the fact that I'm probably either town (with 21/22 probability) and have information you don't, or I'm the Omega-Wolf (with 1/22 probability), at which point my motivation for this behavior is just completely lacking.

Your speaking of investigating Rysto, OTOH, does not involve information that I do not have and directly flies in the face of information we DO have. Of course, you can still do what you like, I can't MAKE you do what I want... but I sure as hell don't have to like it.

[Santo Rugger]

Is there any doubt in your mind that I'm a witch? Or that I investigated the two of them?

No. My doubt is that BlaM has said, basically, now that you all know I'm town, check out this awesome plan, which also assumes several other people are telling the truth (including known scum), and if you don't agree, PLEASE, just READ what I have to SAY, because it's SECRET, and I KNOW what I'm doing.

[MHaye]

Gah.

I had a terrible night last night, then had to deal with bureaucracy and stuff today. By the time I got to look at this game my get up and go had got up and gone to bed - which is where I should be as I have a job interview tomorrow.

To hit the highlights that I remember from reading the thread :-

No player I have enchanted has been killed, and therefore I haven't actually killed anyone. HockeyMonkey's claim that I killed amr is therefore false. However, in order to show that, I must die - because no-one is going to lynch a claimed cop over a claimed limited protective power. So be it.

Someone asked who I'd enchanted. The answer is myself on both the first two Nights, and Idle Thoughts on Night 3. I'll pick a suitable target to enchant Tonight should the town rethink killing me Today.

If the consensus is that we need to test the cop's claim quickly before her lies can do any more damage, then lynch me Tonight.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is unless I can do some reading tomorrow afternoon (I have until 8pm, after all) and spot another scum.

Night all, and see you on the morrow.

[Blaster Master]

No. My doubt is that BlaM has said, basically, now that you all know I'm town, check out this awesome plan, which also assumes several other people are telling the truth (including known scum), and if you don't agree, PLEASE, just READ what I have to SAY, because it's SECRET, and I KNOW what I'm doing.

You have a problem with my plan because... it depends on Dio and Sach being town (which, if you doubt at this point, is just sill), and my own personal information that Hockey is town? The ONLY thing I'm asking the town to do, in exchange for my action, is A) realize that Hockey Monkey probably would not have protection, if not for me, Tonight and B) if it works, the town gets to keep it's investigative roles and if it doesn't, you lose nothing you wouldn't have lost anyway and you get me as liar.

PLEASE attack the logic of my plan, because these "I'm not sure you're town" just ain't cuttin' into my logic, because my logic doesn't depend on that. The ONLY thing you'd POSSIBLY have to be concerned about is if you have reason to believe Hockey Monkey ISN'T whom she says she is and, thus, shouldn't be protected.

So here... I'm 21/22 town and 1/22 Omega-Wolf based on Dio's reading. So...

95.45% chance I'm telling the truth and Hockey Monkey and I survive the Night. We get an extra reading from her... town +1 reading, keep all important roles.

4.55% change that I'm lying, I'm the Omega-Wolf, Hockey Monkey dies (when she would have died anyway) and then the town can then lynch the only non-readable role. town +1 confirmed (in ShadowFacts) +1 Wolf death, -1 important role (which, again, doesn't count because she'd be dead anyway)

Seriously... what the hell is wrong with that?

[HazelNutCoffee]

Gah! Numbers! :: runs away screaming ::

[DiggitCamara]

You have a problem with my plan because... it depends on Dio and Sach being town (which, if you doubt at this point, is just sill), and my own personal information that Hockey is town? The ONLY thing I'm asking the town to do, in exchange for my action, is A) realize that Hockey Monkey probably would not have protection, if not for me, Tonight and B) if it works, the town gets to keep it's investigative roles and if it doesn't, you lose nothing you wouldn't have lost anyway and you get me as liar.

PLEASE attack the logic of my plan, because these "I'm not sure you're town" just ain't cuttin' into my logic, because my logic doesn't depend on that. The ONLY thing you'd POSSIBLY have to be concerned about is if you have reason to believe Hockey Monkey ISN'T whom she says she is and, thus, shouldn't be protected.

So here... I'm 21/22 town and 1/22 Omega-Wolf based on Dio's reading. So...

95.45% chance I'm telling the truth and Hockey Monkey and I survive the Night. We get an extra reading from her... town +1 reading, keep all important roles.

4.55% change that I'm lying, I'm the Omega-Wolf, Hockey Monkey dies (when she would have died anyway) and then the town can then lynch the only non-readable role. town +1 confirmed (in ShadowFacts) +1 Wolf death, -1 important role (which, again, doesn't count because she'd be dead anyway)

Seriously... what the hell is wrong with that?
Well, if we kill the Cat:

1. We kill a confirmed scum (who's quite likely lying about his alleged powers)
2. We deny him the use of his Night powers (which we don't really know about and which worry me far more)
3. Nothing changes, regarding the Night's events as per your plan
4. Either Hockey Monkey or MHaye's story is checked out during the Night
5. We have a confirmed target for the next Night

regardless of any combination of truth or lies which you, HockeyMonkey, MHaye have made.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
So here... I'm 21/22 town and 1/22 Omega-Wolf based on Dio's reading. So...
<snip>

Those numbers are simply wrong, and you know it. You're way to logical and think about things in enough depth to not discount all the dead players, plus role claims that are generally accepted as true. From Pleo's list, including roles that sach has revealed (plus him), we can obtain the following:

01. Idle Thoughts
02. Diomedes
04. Hockey Monkey
05. CatInASuit
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
15. Pygmy Rugger = Santos Rugger
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

That we know are not the Godfather. Now, if we trust Dio and Hockey, we can eliminate both of them, plus CatInASuit. I can also eliminate myself, since I know I'm not. That makes my list:

01. Idle Thoughts
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

Or a 1/8 chance, which is considerably larger than the 1/22 chance you're claiming. Like I said, I know that you're analytical to simply "overlook" this simple process of elimination.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

That we know are not the Godfather. Now, if we trust Dio and Hockey, we can eliminate both of them, plus CatInASuit. I can also eliminate myself, since I know I'm not. That makes my list:

01. Idle Thoughts
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

Or a 1/8 chance, which is considerably larger than the 1/22 chance you're claiming. Like I said, I know that you're analytical to simply "overlook" this simple process of elimination.


Not a bad catch. And the danger of Blaster being Omega, with him setting this plan up, might be pretty high.
However, I think Hockey Monkey is also on the list of potential bad claim wolves. However, all of our "Town" results from sache are still on that list, I think, except for amrussell. I'm still putting you on the list (and I assume Blaster did as well), leaving it a 1/10 chance, or perhaps higher, up to 1/13.

[Idle Thoughts]

First of all, as I said, my plan, if it fails, costs the town nothing, because Hockey Monkey would have no protection at all Tonight. Second of all, there's very likely NOT any Cabalists left.

How and why do you assume this? I think it'd be dangerous or foolish to automatically assume this.

And how does it cost the Town nothing if it fails? If you're blocked while you're protrecting others, then they won't be protected and if the scum try for them, they're dead. If I'm blocked while self enchanting and the scum try for me, I'm dead. If the Witches protect someone else or investigate someone, they won't be protected if YOU are blocked, so that makes a possible you or the Witches killed if scum try for them.

Third, they CAN'T block Witches (which means Dio won't be blocked) and it's not in their interest to attempt to block me, because Hockey Monkey is helpful to them, because she can't identify any of them, and will help the town focus on eliminating other scum than themselves. In fact, the Cabalists best shot is to stay alive, since it just wouldn't make sense to have more than one left if any, which means blocking Night kills like, say, maybe Cat or MHaye (whichever survives Today) or someone else they think is likely to be a Night killer.

I disagree. I think the biggest threat to all the scum factions right now is the Town power roles.

I DO agree with letting roles play as they see fit. I also think it's a good idea to give advice. And I think it is very foolish to talk to Rysto Tonight, because I see no reason to believe Dio will not be alive tomorrow. And doing so will do nothing to support your claim either. What will you do... out the other Witch? Maybe go "See, I knew that already" when he is forced to claim?

Well, those are your thoughts. Me, I like keeping my mind open a bit more, I guess.

And, NETA: Do take your own advice. ;) I assure you, my plan is more solid than you make it appear, and it IS based on information that you do not have. I have given sufficient information to make my intentions clear and support my reasoning for that... the rest you'll just have to rest on from the fact that I'm probably either town (with 21/22 probability) and have information you don't, or I'm the Omega-Wolf (with 1/22 probability), at which point my motivation for this behavior is just completely lacking.

Well, overall I lean a lot more towards trusting you.

All I ask is you don't question my motives (at least right now). Your whole thing seems to be based on faith too ("Not revealing my role but here is a plan based on things that have to do with my role"). Me, I'm saying, just let me do what I think is best without saying how foolish it may be. :p

Of course, you can still do what you like, I can't MAKE you do what I want... but I sure as hell don't have to like it.

Okay.

[Idle Thoughts]

Well, if we kill the Cat:

1. We kill a confirmed scum (who's quite likely lying about his alleged powers)
2. We deny him the use of his Night powers (which we don't really know about and which worry me far more)
3. Nothing changes, regarding the Night's events as per your plan
4. Either Hockey Monkey or MHaye's story is checked out during the Night
5. We have a confirmed target for the next Night

regardless of any combination of truth or lies which you, HockeyMonkey, MHaye have made.

However, if we kill MHaye:

1. We'll learn if there is a Vig or not in the game.
2. We may be saving a Witch.
3. We can hear from Sach (who I assume would tell us so we'd know if Hockey was lying) if MHaye was anything other than a Wolf.
4. Your number 5 doesn't work so well if HM is lying because we won't find out MHaye alligence until two Days from now barring he's not killed off by then....but if he is killed off this Night (by a Vig), we won't have a confirmed one tomorroDay AND we may be out a Vig (if MHaye is Town).

In every case, it's a bit better, I think, to lynch MHaye toDay. Because if it turns out CIAS was the Necro and does take Dio, I, personally, will be mildly suspicious of all of those who voted for him (see my earlier post re: How some are probably voting for him because they believe him and hope he takes a Witch along).

[Idle Thoughts]

Those numbers are simply wrong, and you know it. You're way to logical and think about things in enough depth to not discount all the dead players, plus role claims that are generally accepted as true. From Pleo's list, including roles that sach has revealed (plus him), we can obtain the following:

01. Idle Thoughts
02. Diomedes
04. Hockey Monkey
05. CatInASuit
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
15. Pygmy Rugger = Santos Rugger
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

That we know are not the Godfather. Now, if we trust Dio and Hockey, we can eliminate both of them, plus CatInASuit. I can also eliminate myself, since I know I'm not. That makes my list:

01. Idle Thoughts
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

Or a 1/8 chance, which is considerably larger than the 1/22 chance you're claiming. Like I said, I know that you're analytical to simply "overlook" this simple process of elimination.


What about "if we trust Idle Thoughts"? :dubious:

[Santo Rugger]

Not a bad catch. And the danger of Blaster being Omega, with him setting this plan up, might be pretty high.
However, I think Hockey Monkey is also on the list of potential bad claim wolves. However, all of our "Town" results from sache are still on that list, I think, except for amrussell. I'm still putting you on the list (and I assume Blaster did as well), leaving it a 1/10 chance, or perhaps higher, up to 1/13.

The only two people I pulled off the list because of sach were Kat and nesta, both Cabal members. I didn't expect you to pull me off of the list, but six of the other people on it can pull themselves on it. I think, either way you dice it, we can at least agree on 1/10, which is still twice BlaM's claim.

[Santo Rugger]

What about "if we trust Idle Thoughts"? :dubious:

Then the list gets even smaller.

[Blaster Master]

Those numbers are simply wrong, and you know it. You're way to logical and think about things in enough depth to not discount all the dead players, plus role claims that are generally accepted as true. From Pleo's list, including roles that sach has revealed (plus him), we can obtain the following:

01. Idle Thoughts
02. Diomedes
04. Hockey Monkey
05. CatInASuit
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
15. Pygmy Rugger = Santos Rugger
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

That we know are not the Godfather. Now, if we trust Dio and Hockey, we can eliminate both of them, plus CatInASuit. I can also eliminate myself, since I know I'm not. That makes my list:

01. Idle Thoughts
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
22. ShadowFacts

Or a 1/8 chance, which is considerably larger than the 1/22 chance you're claiming. Like I said, I know that you're analytical to simply "overlook" this simple process of elimination.

This is, what I shall call for lack of a better term, the Monte Hall fallacy. The probability of me being a particular role does not change because we have additional information about other roles. Assigning distinct values to each role (ie, duplicate roles get appended to create unique indentifiers), that means selecting any role at random I, or anyone, has a 1/22 chance of having that role.

You are refering to is a conditional probability based on specific knowledge or assumptions. This in no way invalids the few numbers I provide. Thus, going by the same line of reasoning, I could argue that I have zero chance of the roles I do not have an a 100% chance of having the role I do have.

Further, I don't understand your insistence on trying to paint me as the Omega-Wolf. We have more important matters at hand, and we can discuss my and YOUR alignments Tomorrow. But what you're currently engaging in is semantic squabbling and ad hominem attacks, but you've failed to dicount the fundamental parts of my logic. In fact, this whole line of reasoning by you is thoroughly lacking town motivation.

[Blaster Master]

How and why do you assume this? I think it'd be dangerous or foolish to automatically assume this.

And how does it cost the Town nothing if it fails? If you're blocked while you're protrecting others, then they won't be protected and if the scum try for them, they're dead. If I'm blocked while self enchanting and the scum try for me, I'm dead. If the Witches protect someone else or investigate someone, they won't be protected if YOU are blocked, so that makes a possible you or the Witches killed if scum try for them.

Who said I was assuming anything? The Cabal are almost certainly gone, since there's three witches, it makes sense there'd be three Cabal. However, even in the event there is one or two left, they will NOT target me because they would be extremely foolish to do so. You may or may not think so, but the logic is simple. They have NO way of killing scum directly, they HAVE to depend on the town and the scum to some extent. At this point, Hockey Monkey is a plus to the Cabal because she is unable to incriminate them, and the Cabal will win with the scum eliminated if a Witch dies.

This also means that they need the scum to somehow target the Third Witch. Now, they know Hockey Monkey isn't the Witch, and they also know that the Wolves won't target me, because I'm either pro-town (and thus telling the truth) or I'm the Omega-Wolf (and thus, they wouldn't target me anyway)...hence, blocking me does NOT bring them any closer to their goal Tonight.

Similarly, blocking Hockey Monkey makes no sense, because she is, at worst, neutral to their winning conditions. Thus, they'll either target Idle, or somewhat at random in the unconfirmed pool to try to minimize the Night Kills thus improving their chance of survival and the town taking out more scum, and then hoping that the third Witch will get targetted at some point before they do.

I disagree. I think the biggest threat to all the scum factions right now is the Town power roles.

Can you justify that at all? The Cabal can't do diddly squat to the Witches, so that's out. Hockey Monkey helps the Town find anyone BUT Cabal... that's GOOD for them. As I said, their incentive for blocking me, in the off chance one is still out there, is SORELY lacking.

All I ask is you don't question my motives (at least right now). Your whole thing seems to be based on faith too ("Not revealing my role but here is a plan based on things that have to do with my role"). Me, I'm saying, just let me do what I think is best without saying how foolish it may be. :p
Now, now, I'm not questioning your motives, because I can see potential pro-town motives behind your actions thus far. Besides, it's entirely possible that you're a well intentioned fool. :p

[CatInASuit]

Thoughts from the darkside:

I have a few ideas running through my head and possible plans if I can work through them.

In terms of the Cabal, I'm a muppet, of course they can't target Diomedes :smack:

If the Cabal are around they will be best served by removing town power roles at the moment, they last thing they want is to be discovered, and are better working in tandem with the night killers to take out protected town roles and then guiding the town to lynch them afterwards, which means targeting Blaster Master.

(It's really annoying, I'm going to spending today hunting down Witch #3 from Diomedes' hints :confused: )

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

(It's really annoying, I'm going to spending today hunting down Witch #3 from Diomedes' hints :confused: )


Don't bother, you won't find her.

[ShadowFacts]

Blaster is either town or the Omega. For now, I think we should assume that both he and Shadow are Town, as they've been discovered.And this is the only reason I'm not highly suspicious of BM myself. Because if ANYONE is the Omega, it's got to be..

...hey...


...HEY!

Leggo, Dio. Take your hand off of my mouth! Okay, okay! I'll shut up. Sheesh.

You know, I was going to let this (and all your other crap about me) go, but...

If I am the Omega Wolf, I am the stupidest wolf in the history of lycanthropy. Not only did I put the last second vote that lynched fluiddruid, I'm the tie-breaker on MHaye today.

But I encourage you to keep flinging your UMGUS mud on me, Mr. Necromancer, because nobody is buying it and it just makes you look scummier. So keep it coming!

Whoops! Did I say Necromancer? I meant Necro-speaker! Silly me, but they are so similar you can see why I slipped up. My bad.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You know, I was going to let this (and all your other crap about me) go, but...

If I am the Omega Wolf, I am the stupidest wolf in the history of lycanthropy. Not only did I put the last second vote that lynched fluiddruid, I'm the tie-breaker on MHaye today.

But I encourage you to keep flinging your UMGUS mud on me, Mr. Necromancer, because nobody is buying it and it just makes you look scummier. So keep it coming!

Whoops! Did I say Necromancer? I meant Necro-speaker! Silly me, but they are so similar you can see why I slipped up. My bad.


Fine! That's it! I've had enough. I'm turning this car right around, and you boys can go to your rooms and think about what you've done.

[Santo Rugger]

This is, what I shall call for lack of a better term, the Monte Hall fallacy. The probability of me being a particular role does not change because we have additional information about other roles. Assigning distinct values to each role (ie, duplicate roles get appended to create unique indentifiers), that means selecting any role at random I, or anyone, has a 1/22 chance of having that role.

You are refering to is a conditional probability based on specific knowledge or assumptions. This in no way invalids the few numbers I provide. Thus, going by the same line of reasoning, I could argue that I have zero chance of the roles I do not have an a 100% chance of having the role I do have.


Well, since you already have your role, you do have a 100% chance of having your role. If we were playing poker, and I had the ace of spades, there would be a zero percent chance of the ace of spades coming up on the flop.

Further, I don't understand your insistence on trying to paint me as the Omega-Wolf. We have more important matters at hand, and we can discuss my and YOUR alignments Tomorrow. But what you're currently engaging in is semantic squabbling and ad hominem attacks,

You're the one that brought it up.

but you've failed to dicount the fundamental parts of my logic. In fact, this whole line of reasoning by you is thoroughly lacking town motivation.

Others have discounted said logic, and I've stated that it involves trusting at least two people who are not yet verified yet. I strongly disagree that my reasoning is lacking town motivation. Remember, I don't have the information to confirm both you and Hockey like you supposedly do.

[sachertorte]

Irony:
I find it funny that someone so driven to demand that I play my role the way he thinks it should is getting huffy about others suggesting courses of action for his role. Where was the "let power roles play their own role the way they see fit" mantra back on Day Two?

Trust:
- I trust myself. Further, I believe I have demonstrated enough of my power to convince the town that I am a Coroner. The chances of guessing alignments has become vanishingly small at this point. What's left is paranoia. Anyone waiting for 100% confirmation before making decisions will be waiting a long long time.
- I trust Diomedes. Now that we are at mid-game, I was hoping for investigator claims. A witch claim at this time makes sense -- especially, if the witches have actionable data. Furthermore, there have been no witch counterclaims. I see no reason for a witch not to counterclaim if Diomedes is lying. Now, there may be a very good reason that I'm not aware of, but as it stands, no counterclaim means Diomedes is telling the truth from my point of view. Further furthermore, Diomedes identified Rysto as a fellow witch, which is correct. This is one of the many unspoken reasons I was not revealing Role information. I wanted to use role information to confirm masons and witches. The consequence of this idea is that I wouldn't reveal any Role information. (sidenote: I also realized on Night One that I would want to conceal the Roles of witches to prevent scum from using the post record to their advantage. Again, the consequence of this idea is that I would need to suppress all Role information. Suppressing unimportant scum roles was just a red herring on my part.).
- I do not trust CatInASuit. Duh.
- I do not trust MHaye. His lack of defense does not look Town to me at all.
- Hence, I trust Hockey Monkey. If MHaye had mounted a decent defense at all, I'd be open to questioning Hockey Monkey. He didn't; so I don't. Also, Hockey Monkey came out of nowhere with her claim. She was not in danger of a lynch (well yet anyway), and claiming now is consistent with what I thought would be logical for the Detective. If she waits, she can't get more information anyway!
- My trust in Blaster Master is more problematic. What trust exists hinges on my trust of Diomedes. Again, I believe if Diomedes were lying, a witch would counterclaim. Diomedes has ruled out the possibility of Blaster Master being undead or cabal. The only possibilities are Town or Omega Wolf. Based on my trust of Hockey Monkey and my distrust of MHaye, I conclude that a lying Blaster Master's crusade against MHaye would have to be Wolf on Wolf. This is a possibility as 'selling-out' MHaye isn't too much of a sacrifice for a Wolf since MHaye has already been found out. One needling thing about Blaster Master is that he has shared quite a bit about himself, but won't committ to revealing his Role. I find this odd since the description of his powers is much more interesting to scum than simply the name of his role. He might have good pro-town reasons not to state his role (but I do not see them at this time); but unfortunately an Omega Wolf would have a high motivation for avoiding making a false claim for as long as possible. If Blaster Master were the Omega Wolf his claim can be debunked by either Masons or The Seer.
I ask that Blaster Master weigh the pros and cons of a roleclaim.

Cabal:
I assume that all the Cabal are dead. There is a nice symmetry with 3 witches and 3 Cabal. If Hockey Monkey's numbers are accurate (and I believe they are), that puts the start at 5 Wolf 2 Undead 3 Cabal and 12 Town. An additional Cabalist would make the game 50% scum. With two killing factions, I believe this to be unreasonable.

Forecast:
Slightly cloudy with chance of Zombies...

Forecast with MHaye lynched First, CatInASuit as a Vampire, no Vig.
Day Four (Today): 8 Town, 3 Wolves, 2 Undead, 2 Zombies
Day Five (Tomorrow): 6 Town, 2 Wolves, 2 Undead, 3 Zombies
Day Six: 5 Town, 2 Wolves, 1 Undead, 4 Zombies -- Must lynch necromancer or lose

Forecast with MHaye lynched First, CatInASuit as a Necromancer, no Vig.
Day Four (Today): 8 Town, 3 Wolves, 2 Undead, 2 Zombies
Day Five (Tomorrow): 6 Town, 2 Wolves, 2 Undead, 3 Zombies
Day Six: 4 Town, 2 Wolves, 1 Undead, 0 Zombies

Forecast with CatInASuit lynched first, CatInASuit as a Vampire, no Vig.
Day Four (Today): 8 Town, 3 Wolves, 2 Undead, 2 Zombies
Day Five (Tomorrow): 7 Town, 3 Wolves, 1 Undead, 3 Zombies
Day Six: 6 Town, 2 Wolves, 1 Undead, 4 Zombies

Forecast with CatInASuit lynched first, CatInASuit as a Necromancer, no Vig.
Day Four (Today): 8 Town, 3 Wolves, 2 Undead, 2 Zombies
Day Five (Tomorrow): 6 Town, 3 Wolves, 1 Undead, 0 Zombies
Day Six: 4 Town, 2 Wolves, 1 Undead, 0 Zombies

My conclusions... The game so far has been pretty good for the Town, Of the dead players 4 are Town (amrussell, Drain Bead, Rysto, Hal Briston), 2 are wolves (Fretful Porpentine, fluiddruid), 3 are Cabal (One And Only Wanderers, Kat, nesta). That's 4 town to 5 scum. I'd say that's remarkably good, yet, with Town claims and two nightkills for scum, the game is actually very close. We should expect Town Mortality rate to be Two Town per night for the next two nights.

There is almost certainly a Vig. I can't see how Town could be expected to root out scum without a NightKill ability somewhere. We just would not be able to keep up. We've had ONE mislynch (Drain Bead). And even if we are correct with MHaye and CatInASuit, the game would still end up very close, grim even! The existence of a Vig invalidates my Forecasts above, but I leave them there to illustrate a game balance reason for the existence of a Vig as well as an illustration that despite Town greatly outnumbering scum for now, the two kills allowed to scum makes the game much closer than we think.

CatInASuit is lying about his kill secret power. With two scum nightkills in the game plus RECRUITMENT!, giving scum additional kill powers is remarkably unbalanced. A random kill would be bad enough, but a directed kill? No Way. If anything, such a secret power would be given to the Cabal, to give them a chance at taking out a Witch. Giving it to Undead? Nope. I don't believe it. Such a mechanism would make a game where Town lynches scum every Day, yet still loses, not just a remote possibility, but a likely outcome. As it stands I'm already questioning the balance of this game.

Recruitment:
I very much don't like recruitment. If I die and come back, kill me.

Vote:
I'm changing my vote to MHaye because I think I will be dead by morning. We need to know MHaye's role to assess Hockey Monkey (and possibly Blaster Master). If we delay killing MHaye until later, his role reveal will be delayed as well (especially if I'm dead). Although, if MHaye gets vigged tonight, the point is moot, but whatever. I'm not sold on Blaster Master's plan, but as we know CatInASuit is scum, killing MHaye now makes sense from an informational need view. Tomorrow you lynch CatInASuit, and by the next day you should know MHaye's alignment (even if I'm dead), then you can act on Hockey Monkey if necessary. I'm very much reluctantly doing this as I still think CatInASuit should die right now, but with needing to know MHaye's alignment and Blaster Master's grand plan...

unvote CatInASuit
vote MHaye

[Santo Rugger]

Hypothesis: CatInASuit is a Vampire, with recruitment power, and wants to utilize said power toNight, hence his fabricated story about being able to take out Dio.

[DiggitCamara]

However, if we kill MHaye:

1. We'll learn if there is a Vig or not in the game.
2. We may be saving a Witch.
3. We can hear from Sach (who I assume would tell us so we'd know if Hockey was lying) if MHaye was anything other than a Wolf.
4. Your number 5 doesn't work so well if HM is lying because we won't find out MHaye alligence until two Days from now barring he's not killed off by then....but if he is killed off this Night (by a Vig), we won't have a confirmed one tomorroDay AND we may be out a Vig (if MHaye is Town).

In every case, it's a bit better, I think, to lynch MHaye toDay. Because if it turns out CIAS was the Necro and does take Dio, I, personally, will be mildly suspicious of all of those who voted for him (see my earlier post re: How some are probably voting for him because they believe him and hope he takes a Witch along).
1. I can pretty much guarantee it right now. On two Nights either Cabalists or Wolves were hit. I doubt that they constantly hit players outside their factions. And to be honest, knowing if there is a Vigilante or not is not exactly a priority
2. If you believe dying scum would disclose that point, yes. But I don't think the Cat really would have given us that piece of information if he really had that power
3. Right. But for that sachertorte would have to survive the Night. The way Blaster Master described his Plan, that isn't actually guaranteed by anyone. Even less if our prospective Vampire is allowed to survive the Day
4. You don't think the Night will give us some more information? I'm pretty sure it will. Anyhow, if HM is lying, she would be a lynch target, wouldn't she?

[ShadowFacts]

I'm changing my vote to MHaye because I think I will be dead by morning.

I think those who have protective powers should STRONGLY consider putting sach on the protect list, as without him we will have to wait a long time to know if any of these gambits/claims are valid. Without knowing more from Blaster, I don't know how many "protections" he has, plus the witches, but you guys should think carefully about it.

[Pleonast]

About three hours until Dusk.

A note to everyone: I've tried to balance it so that each Side had an equal chance of winning, at the start of the game. So you shouldn't have expected more than a 25% chance.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

About three hours until Dusk.

A note to everyone: I've tried to balance it so that each Side had an equal chance of winning, at the start of the game. So you shouldn't have expected more than a 25% chance.

I think this post is essentially telling us there's at least another Cabalist left.

[Santo Rugger]

I think this post is essentially telling us there's at least another Cabalist left.

I don't.

[sachertorte]

I think those who have protective powers should STRONGLY consider putting sach on the protect list, as without him we will have to wait a long time to know if any of these gambits/claims are valid. Without knowing more from Blaster, I don't know how many "protections" he has, plus the witches, but you guys should think carefully about it.
I disagree. I think protective roles should mildly consider protecting me. I'm not all that important. The most important part of my role is already public information. Protective roles should not publicly commit to protecting me (nor should they rule it out 100%). I'm not that important (certainly not as important as Diomedes), but it would be nice to make scum think twice about killing me.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I don't.

The Cabalists, no matter how many their number, are stuck with a bit of a raw deal. They're scum, but they have no night kill action. The only weapon they have is a block, but it's questionable how they should use it, even if they knew where everyone was: they need the undead and the wolves dead just as much as the town does, but they need the game to go on long enough for two of the three witches to get killed.
I can't see the Cabalists having as good a shot of winning as the other scum, and certainly not as good a shot of winning as the town with only three players.

[ShadowFacts]

I disagree. I think protective roles should mildly consider protecting me. I'm not all that important. The most important part of my role is already public information. Protective roles should not publicly commit to protecting me (nor should they rule it out 100%). I'm not that important (certainly not as important as Diomedes), but it would be nice to make scum think twice about killing me.

(bolding mine)

I disagree with how important your role still is, but I completely agree with the bolded part.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I disagree. I think protective roles should mildly consider protecting me. I'm not all that important. The most important part of my role is already public information. Protective roles should not publicly commit to protecting me (nor should they rule it out 100%). I'm not that important (certainly not as important as Diomedes), but it would be nice to make scum think twice about killing me.

I agree with your comments on protective roles talking publicly aboutthier plans for the evening. I think Idle and Blaster (even with his promise of protecting Hockey) should make up their minds entirely independently tonight.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Damn you, ShadowFacts! ;)

[Santo Rugger]

The Cabalists, no matter how many their number, are stuck with a bit of a raw deal. They're scum, but they have no night kill action. The only weapon they have is a block, but it's questionable how they should use it, even if they knew where everyone was: they need the undead and the wolves dead just as much as the town does, but they need the game to go on long enough for two of the three witches to get killed.
I can't see the Cabalists having as good a shot of winning as the other scum, and certainly not as good a shot of winning as the town with only three players.

Do you really think Pleo would say, "Hey, guys, there's still Cabal left."?

[HazelNutCoffee]

Do you really think Pleo would say, "Hey, guys, there's still Cabal left."?
He didn't. He said each chance had an equal shot at winning, and considering the fact that Cabal have a pretty raw deal in terms of power, it'd make sense that they would make up for that in numbers... is what Dio is saying, I think.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

He didn't. He said each chance had an equal shot at winning, and considering the fact that Cabal have a pretty raw deal in terms of power, it'd make sense that they would make up for that in numbers... is what Dio is saying, I think.

Thanks, Hazel. That's what I was trying to get at. Not that the Cabal shouldbe our main focus, but when we start looking around and trying to figure out who's who, it'd be a good thing to keep in mind.

[Idle Thoughts]

Who said I was assuming anything? The Cabal are almost certainly gone, since there's three witches, it makes sense there'd be three Cabal.

There's were twenty players. I wouldn't be surprised if there are were: 5 Wolves, 2 (or 3) Undead (not counting the zombies) , 4 Cabal, and 8 (or 9) Town.


even in the event there is one or two left, they will NOT target me because they would be extremely foolish to do so. You may or may not think so, but the logic is simple. They have NO way of killing scum directly, they HAVE to depend on the town and the scum to some extent. At this point, Hockey Monkey is a plus to the Cabal because she is unable to incriminate them, and the Cabal will win with the scum eliminated if a Witch dies.

This I agree with....which makes it more possible, to me, that some could be pressing for a Cat lynch in the hopes that he's telling the truth and can take out Dio


Can you justify that at all? The Cabal can't do diddly squat to the Witches, so that's out. Hockey Monkey helps the Town find anyone BUT Cabal... that's GOOD for them. As I said, their incentive for blocking me, in the off chance one is still out there, is SORELY lacking.

There's more roles than just those. : p
Witches, me, the Coroner, Freemasons and I'm willing to bet a few others who have not yet come out. Cabal may not be able to DO anything to the Witches at Night but that doesn't mean they don't want them dead and will try to kill them off (like today, for example).

Now, now, I'm not questioning your motives, because I can see potential pro-town motives behind your actions thus far. Besides, it's entirely possible that you're a well intentioned fool. :p
Thanks! :p

[sachertorte]

Drain Bead is a Freemason.
I've already told you about Kat and nesta (Cabal).
You already have been told that Rysto is a Witch.
I'm not revealing Hal's Role.

[Idle Thoughts]

You know, I was going to let this (and all your other crap about me) go, but...

If I am the Omega Wolf, I am the stupidest wolf in the history of lycanthropy. Not only did I put the last second vote that lynched fluiddruid, I'm the tie-breaker on MHaye today.

So what? Look at Story in M2 who sold out his whole team by voting for them during the game. Look at me in M5 who was the tie breaker for Kat who was my fellow scum when I could have left the votes how they were and Mal, the Disciple, would have gotten it.

I agree, it'd be risky, but why else would you be pushing so hard to cast suspicion on me (and you did. You are the one that started this off. I was all content to let my suspicions of you just stay inside and fester and wait until later saying "you know, I find Shadow suspicious"..but since then, you've done nothing but pester me on how I'm so suspicious and how I'm scum. But see, when I've talked to a Witch and when Dio says "Yeah, he's really what he says he is" what's going to happen then? Will you start doubting the Witches too? What'll wind up happening is (unfortunatly for you and your false disbelief): You'll have no choice but to begrudingly accept the fact I'm REALLY a Witchdoctor yet, on the other hand, I'll still be suspicious of you.

But I encourage you to keep flinging your UMGUS mud on me, Mr. Necromancer, because nobody is buying it and it just makes you look scummier. So keep it coming!

Whoops! Did I say Necromancer? I meant Necro-speaker! Silly me, but they are so similar you can see why I slipped up. My bad.

Hahaha...now that was acutally funny. (No sarcasm intended) :p

[Idle Thoughts]

Hypothesis: CatInASuit is a Vampire, with recruitment power, and wants to utilize said power toNight, hence his fabricated story about being able to take out Dio.

Solution: I can say if a dead and then coming back to life person was enchanted by me. All it depends on is if you believe me or not (oh, and that I'm alive at the time, of course).

[Freudian Slit]

So if CatInASuit brings someone back, that'll be like, what...a...mini me vampire?

[Santo Rugger]

Solution: I can say if a dead and then coming back to life person was enchanted by me. All it depends on is if you believe me or not (oh, and that I'm alive at the time, of course).

And if you die tonight? You guys are making way too many assumptions.

[Idle Thoughts]

I don't.

I do.

25 percent chance for each group? That would equate out to 5 members of each faction being as there's four factions and 20 players...however if there WERE five members of each faction, the game would be over for Town very, very quickly, I think....HOWEVER, you have to wager in there will be other factions killing other factions (other than Town) and trying for their own win.

So again, I think it's not totally equal but it's close....like say, 4 Cabal, 2 or 3 Undead (I'd say more three) , 5 Wolf and about 8 or 9 Town (I'd say more eight).

[Freudian Slit]

Actually, there were 22 players originally. So maybe it is more like five Cabalists.

[Santo Rugger]

BlaM, what is it in Hockey's post that you can verify? Because the only new piece of information I got from it, besides the numbers of wolves and vampires, was MHaye's alignment.

[Santo Rugger]

I do.

25 percent chance for each group? That would equate out to 5 members of each faction being as there's four factions and 20 players...however if there WERE five members of each faction, the game would be over for Town very, very quickly, I think....HOWEVER, you have to wager in there will be other factions killing other factions (other than Town) and trying for their own win.

So again, I think it's not totally equal but it's close....like say, 4 Cabal, 2 or 3 Undead (I'd say more three) , 5 Wolf and about 8 or 9 Town (I'd say more eight).

So you're saying either there's two Necromancers or Hockey is lying?

And we don't know exactly how powerful those mystical powers actually are.

[Idle Thoughts]

And if you die tonight? You guys are making way too many assumptions.

Then I die.

But what is this game without risk?

[Idle Thoughts]

So you're saying either there's two Necromancers or Hockey is lying?

And we don't know exactly how powerful those mystical powers actually are.

I was actually implying two Vampires, maybe.

And about someone lying, I don't know. But now that I was just informed that there were actually 22 players, that opens up another spot for a potential Townie (so nine or even ten at the very most, but I think more nine).

[Santo Rugger]

I was actually implying two Vampires, maybe.

And about someone lying, I don't know. <snip>

Hockey said there was only one, per her investigation.

So either there is one, or she's lying.

[ShadowFacts]

So what? Look at Story in M2 who sold out his whole team by voting for them during the game. Look at me in M5 who was the tie breaker for Kat who was my fellow scum when I could have left the votes how they were and Mal, the Disciple, would have gotten it.

I did not play or follow those games closely, so I can't really comment on them. I will say this: I agree that my votes on fluiddruid and MHaye alone do not confirm me as Town - they are simply two data points. Everyone will have to look at the evidence and my play and determine what they think.

I agree, it'd be risky, but why else would you be pushing so hard to cast suspicion on me (and you did. You are the one that started this off. I was all content to let my suspicions of you just stay inside and fester and wait until later saying "you know, I find Shadow suspicious"..but since then, you've done nothing but pester me on how I'm so suspicious and how I'm scum. But see, when I've talked to a Witch and when Dio says "Yeah, he's really what he says he is" what's going to happen then? Will you start doubting the Witches too? What'll wind up happening is (unfortunatly for you and your false disbelief): You'll have no choice but to begrudingly accept the fact I'm REALLY a Witchdoctor yet, on the other hand, I'll still be suspicious of you.

You're right about one thing: I have been pushing hard on you, but not to cast suspicion, to reveal your mistakes/fabrications. My challenging you began when you were wrong about your own supposed powers. Ever since then, you've been throwing dirt at me non-stop in an effort to muddy the waters. Unfortunately for you, the witches investigated me as Town, so your crusade has been stunted at best.

But, in answer to your question, if you talk to a dead witch and that witch gets confirmation that you are the Witchdoctor, and Dio reveals that info, then I will believe you. And I will then apologize for doubting you. The problem as I see it, though, is that you've been spouting all along that the simple act of talking to a dead player will confirm you. It won't. There's no reason to think that a scum role, e.g. the Necromancer, could not have the secret power to talk with the dead. In fact, at the moment, that is exactly what I think is the case: you DO have the power to talk to the dead, but not because you are the Witchdoctor. But I freely admit that is merely a supposition on my part, which is why I haven't been pursuing it.

[Santo Rugger]

Drain Bead is a Freemason.<snip>

I'm a Freemason. I'm choosing to claim now because, with two down, I'm not sure if there are any left, and I don't want to leave the door open for scum or the omega wolf to be able to claim. I've already shown my handsign today. ShadowFacts and BlaM are not Freemasons.

[ShadowFacts]

Drain Bead is a Freemason.
I've already told you about Kat and nesta (Cabal).
You already have been told that Rysto is a Witch.
I'm not revealing Hal's Role.

Thank you, sach. If DB comes up freemason, you will be 99.999% confirmed in my eyes.

[Idle Thoughts]

Hockey said there was only one, per her investigation.

So either there is one, or she's lying.

Ah, gotcha.

Well, then I guess maybe there's only two Undead. But that has no bearing on the fact that I still there there's another Cabalist left.

[CatInASuit]

Darkside Strategy

Right with a couple of minutes to go, here is the darkside strategy as I see it.

First off, I think our out in the open Witch has been less than honest with the truth.

My guess is that they have had four reads, but not the ones they are saying. I would guess that Shadowfacts and myself were two of the targets, but the other two are up for debate.

Why mention fluiddruid, because she is easy enough to hide another search behind without raising suspicion.
So why mention Blaster Master. Simple, I believe he is the third witch. The only way he could guarantee the safety of two people tonight is if he could not be stopped by the Cabal blocking him. The only town role capable of that is Witch.

Why else would Diomedes be so willing to trust him with this plan, because he is a Witch. Why is Blaster Master so happy to offer himself as lynch tomorrow, if it goes wrong. Because he is a Witch and he knows he will not be lynched.

Now for the fun part. With two Witches they can either protect or investigate, or probably use a Witch special power instead. I see no reason why Blaster Master cannot protect two people tonight. But I don't think he can protect any more than two.

Regardless of this, the Cabal should target Blaster Master, because if he is not a witch his protection is voided and if he is a witch, it prevents any of the scum from being affected.

The Night Killers should concentrate on our 4 known townies: Blaster Master, Diomedes, sachertorte and Hockey Monkey. The odds of us hitting one of the main trusted town roles at this point is good.

Blaster Master is hoping to get us to try the couple of remaining targets he has conveniently left in the hopes that if he covers them, we will not be able to night kill. Lets not give him the option.

The reason for this is that if he can get Hockey Monkey through the next two nights, he can get another Wolf for certain lynch the following day after I am either Vig killed tonight or lynched tomorrow.

Please don't try hitting anyone in the pool, we need it as large as possible.

One last thing, from Blaster Master. He said he was unrecruitable. Which means he and Diomedes are off the list. We still have a few other options and serious consideration should be given to using the recruit to help swing the balance.

Tomorrow will tell whether I am right or wrong.

Ok Scum, lets go to work! It's WIFOM time.

[Idle Thoughts]

I did not play or follow those games closely, so I can't really comment on them. I will say this: I agree that my votes on fluiddruid and MHaye alone do not confirm me as Town - they are simply two data points. Everyone will have to look at the evidence and my play and determine what they think.

Agreed and okay.

You're right about one thing: I have been pushing hard on you, but not to cast suspicion, to reveal your mistakes/fabrications. My challenging you began when you were wrong about your own supposed powers.

Not so....you made a post talking about how you were suspicious of me. As in, an out of the blue "Hmm, I'm suspcious of Idle" (and this was long after I claimed). I'd go find it if I didn't have about four minutes left so no cite, sorry, but it is there if one looks. I will link it to you if you really want TomorrowDay if I'm still alive, but if I'm not, again, it's there for anyone who wishes to look.

But, in answer to your question, if you talk to a dead witch and that witch gets confirmation that you are the Witchdoctor, and Dio reveals that info, then I will believe you. And I will then apologize for doubting you. The problem as I see it, though, is that you've been spouting all along that the simple act of talking to a dead player will confirm you. It won't.

If I talk to the right one, it will. If I talk to a Witch, you just said yourself....you'd believe Dio.

There's no reason to think that a scum role, e.g. the Necromancer, could not have the secret power to talk with the dead. In fact, at the moment, that is exactly what I think is the case: you DO have the power to talk to the dead, but not because you are the Witchdoctor. But I freely admit that is merely a supposition on my part, which is why I haven't been pursuing it.

Sorry, I guess you were not clear yourself on my role. IF I TALK TO A WITCH, THE WITCHES THAT ARE ALIVE GET TOLD I'M THE WITCHDOCTOR SPECIFICALLY.

[Blaster Master]

Darkside Strategy

Right with a couple of minutes to go, here is the darkside strategy as I see it.

First off, I think our out in the open Witch has been less than honest with the truth.

My guess is that they have had four reads, but not the ones they are saying. I would guess that Shadowfacts and myself were two of the targets, but the other two are up for debate.

Why mention fluiddruid, because she is easy enough to hide another search behind without raising suspicion.
So why mention Blaster Master. Simple, I believe he is the third witch. The only way he could guarantee the safety of two people tonight is if he could not be stopped by the Cabal blocking him. The only town role capable of that is Witch.

Why else would Diomedes be so willing to trust him with this plan, because he is a Witch. Why is Blaster Master so happy to offer himself as lynch tomorrow, if it goes wrong. Because he is a Witch and he knows he will not be lynched.

Now for the fun part. With two Witches they can either protect or investigate, or probably use a Witch special power instead. I see no reason why Blaster Master cannot protect two people tonight. But I don't think he can protect any more than two.

Regardless of this, the Cabal should target Blaster Master, because if he is not a witch his protection is voided and if he is a witch, it prevents any of the scum from being affected.

The Night Killers should concentrate on our 4 known townies: Blaster Master, Diomedes, sachertorte and Hockey Monkey. The odds of us hitting one of the main trusted town roles at this point is good.

Blaster Master is hoping to get us to try the couple of remaining targets he has conveniently left in the hopes that if he covers them, we will not be able to night kill. Lets not give him the option.

The reason for this is that if he can get Hockey Monkey through the next two nights, he can get another Wolf for certain lynch the following day after I am either Vig killed tonight or lynched tomorrow.

Please don't try hitting anyone in the pool, we need it as large as possible.

One last thing, from Blaster Master. He said he was unrecruitable. Which means he and Diomedes are off the list. We still have a few other options and serious consideration should be given to using the recruit to help swing the balance.

Tomorrow will tell whether I am right or wrong.

Ok Scum, lets go to work! It's WIFOM time.

Why thank you Cat. :D

[ShadowFacts]

Agreed and okay.

Not so....you made a post talking about how you were suspicious of me. As in, an out of the blue "Hmm, I'm suspcious of Idle" (and this was long after I claimed). I'd go find it if I didn't have about four minutes left so no cite, sorry, but it is there if one looks. I will link it to you if you really want TomorrowDay if I'm still alive, but if I'm not, again, it's there for anyone who wishes to look.

If I talk to the right one, it will. If I talk to a Witch, you just said yourself....you'd believe Dio.

Sorry, I guess you were not clear yourself on my role. IF I TALK TO A WITCH, THE WITCHES THAT ARE ALIVE GET TOLD I'M THE WITCHDOCTOR SPECIFICALLY.

It's after 3pm and I can't respond, so we'll have to pick it up toMorrow if we're still alive :)

[Freudian Slit]

So....time for a lynch and a drink? :)

[Pleonast]

Ah, another fine Day in the stricken Town of Cecilwich. Things seem to be working out for the best. Clear direction from the alleged Town leaders indicated that one of CatInASuit or MHaye needs to be strung up. And so it was.

MHaye is dead.

Detailed examination of fluiddruid's grave produced disconcerting evidence: yet another Wolf had Zombified. What bizarre fetish must the Necromancer have?

Finally someone noticed, from Drain Bead's intricate mechanical clock sprung an interesting cuckoo, bearing a gear, a plumb and a screwdriver in the telltale configuration. She was a Freemason.

Night Four has begun. Sleep well.

[CatInASuit]

Excellent, it's night time.

Diomedes, get over here and open the bar.

Seeing as I doubt I will be back in here, first rounds on me. :p

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)
Sorry, I guess you were not clear yourself on my role. IF I TALK TO A WITCH, THE WITCHES THAT ARE ALIVE GET TOLD I'M THE WITCHDOCTOR SPECIFICALLY.
Has the countdown to 7 point letters started? Stay tuned!
:D

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

And the Cecilwich Tavern is back open in business. While I wanted to serve some sort of very confused cocktail, The Management has determined we're going with a special to celebrate our best customer that may not be with us much longer....

So, in honor of CatinaSuit, I present: The Necromancer! A shot apiece of Jagermeister, Rumpleminze and Sambuca, with an inch of fresh soil floated on top, served in a floating, flaming chalice!

Who wants the first?

[Hockey Monkey]

Ewwwww, Sambuca? Blech!

[CatInASuit]

And the Cecilwich Tavern is back open in business. While I wanted to serve some sort of very confused cocktail, The Management has determined we're going with a special to celebrate our best customer that may not be with us much longer....

So, in honor of CatinaSuit, I present: The Necromancer! A shot apiece of Jagermeister, Rumpleminze and Sambuca, with an inch of fresh soil floated on top, served in a floating, flaming chalice!

Who wants the first?
I volunteer Blaster Master :p

[MHaye]

[Ghostly voice]

Boy, I'm glad I'm dead. You can't make me drink that stuff.

[/Ghostly voice]

[Blaster Master]

I volunteer Blaster Master :p

Sure thing. I'll drink to your Vigging tonight! Dio, can you hold the dirt please.

[Hockey Monkey]

I'll take the dirt over the Sambuca. Where is a pukey smiley when you need one?

[ShadowFacts]

And the Cecilwich Tavern is back open in business. While I wanted to serve some sort of very confused cocktail, The Management has determined we're going with a special to celebrate our best customer that may not be with us much longer....

So, in honor of CatinaSuit, I present: The Necromancer! A shot apiece of Jagermeister, Rumpleminze and Sambuca, with an inch of fresh soil floated on top, served in a floating, flaming chalice!

Who wants the first?

The funny thing is, when you drink it, it's not that at all. It's a Bloody Mary :p

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Awww... you had to go and ruin the suprise, didn't you, Shadow?

It's one of the advantages of being a Witch-Bartender. You can actually find uses for 'buca.

[Freudian Slit]

How about a...Maggot-rita? ::cackles a la the Crypt Keeper:: Because after all, we need to find uses for this te-KILL-ah!

Sorry, it's nearly Halloween. Gotta make with the bad puns.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

How about a...Maggot-rita? ::cackles a la the Crypt Keeper:: Because after all, we need to find uses for this te-KILL-ah!

Sorry, it's nearly Halloween. Gotta make with the bad puns.


I think we've found our back-up barkeep when I become wormfood! :)

[Hal Briston]

Cheeseburgerita (http://www.imjustdrinking.com/wiki/index.php?title=Drink:Cheeseburgerita), anyone?

[dotchan]

Bump to keep the thread on page one.

Should I set up the karaoke machine? :D

[Hockey Monkey]

NOOOOOOOO!

Hal Briston, you step away from that evil song box right now!

:::scrubs the hard drive of the karaoke machine of all traces of Air Supply:::

[Freudian Slit]

I think we've found our back-up barkeep when I become wormfood! :)
I have purpose!

...or should I say...porpoise? ...no? Okay then.

[HazelNutCoffee]

The only time I'll drink Rumpleminze is if I've been drinking and smoking all night and I need to make out with someone without geting a chance to brush my teeth. That stuff is stronger than Listerine.

[CatInASuit]

Bump to keep the thread on page one.

Should I set up the karaoke machine? :D

Puts on Elton John:

Don't you know I'm still standing
better than I ever did
Looking like a true survivor,
feeling like a little kid

etc, etc, etc. :D

[ShadowFacts]

Puts on Elton John:

Don't you know I'm still standing
better than I ever did
Looking like a true survivor,
feeling like a little kid

etc, etc, etc. :D


white on white
translucent black capes
back on the rack
bela lugosi's dead
the bats have left the bell tower
the victims have been bled
red velvet lines the black box
bela lugosi's dead
undead undead undead


;)

[Hockey Monkey]

:::Steps up to Microphone:::

:::clears throat:::


It's Close To Midnight And Something Evil's Lurking In The Dark
Under The Moonlight You See A Sight That Almost Stops Your Heart
You Try To Scream But Terror Takes The Sound Before You Make It
You Start To Freeze As Horror Looks You Right Between The Eyes,
You're Paralyzed

'Cause This Is Thriller, Thriller Night
And No One's Gonna Save You From The Beast About
Strike
You Know It's Thriller, Thriller Night
You're Fighting For Your Life Inside A Killer, Thriller
Tonight

You Hear The Door Slam And Realize There's Nowhere Left To Run
You Feel The Cold Hand And Wonder If You'll Ever See The Sun
You Close Your Eyes And Hope That This Is Just
Imagination
But All The While You Hear The Creature Creepin' Up
Behind
You're Out Of Time

'Cause This Is Thriller, Thriller Night
There Ain't No Second Chance Against The Thing With
Forty Eyes
You Know It's Thriller, Thriller Night
You're Fighting For Your Life Inside Of Killer, Thriller Tonight

Night Creatures Call
And The Dead Start To Walk In Their Masquerade
There's No Escapin' The Jaws Of The Alien This Time
(They're Open Wide)
This Is The End Of Your Life

They're Out To Get You, There's Demons Closing In On Every Side
They Will Possess You Unless You Change The Number On Your Dial
Now Is The Time For You And I To Cuddle Close Together
All Thru The Night I'll Save You From The Terror On The Screen,
I'll Make You See

That This Is Thriller, Thriller Night
'Cause I Can Thrill You More Than Any Ghost Would Dare To Try
Girl, This Is Thriller, Thriller Night
So Let Me Hold You Tight And Share A Killer, Diller, Chiller
Thriller Here Tonight

[Rap Performed By Vincent Price]
Darkness Falls Across The Land
The Midnite Hour Is Close At Hand
Creatures Crawl In Search Of Blood
To Terrorize Y'awl's Neighbourhood
And Whosoever Shall Be Found
Without The Soul For Getting Down
Must Stand And Face The Hounds Of Hell
And Rot Inside A Corpse's Shell
The Foulest Stench Is In The Air
The Funk Of Forty Thousand Years
And Grizzy Ghouls From Every Tomb
Are Closing In To Seal Your Doom
And Though You Fight To Stay Alive
Your Body Starts To Shiver
For No Mere Mortal Can Resist
The Evil Of The Thriller

[Into Maniacal Laugh, In Deep Echo]

From elyrics.net

[dotchan]

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Tonight, for your listening pleasure, Funeral March for a Marionette (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKi01rPexBI).

(Otherwise more well known as the theme song for the Alfred Hitchcock Hour.)

[Freudian Slit]

The only time I'll drink Rumpleminze is if I've been drinking and smoking all night and I need to make out with someone without geting a chance to brush my teeth. That stuff is stronger than Listerine.
::slides Rumpleminze towards HazelNutCoffee. Come on, baby, make my night!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Nobody wants to sing Rush's "Witch Hunt"?

[CatInASuit]

I think people might get a bit disturbed if I start singing "In the Midnight Hour" by Wilson Pickett. :D

[Blaster Master]

I think people might get a bit disturbed if I start singing "In the Midnight Hour" by Wilson Pickett. :D

As long as you don't start singing Alice Cooper's "I Love the Dead"... we already know you're a sick, sick mane for being a necrophiliac... we don't need to hear more about it. Geesh! :rolleyes:

[Hockey Monkey]

How about Werewolves of London? 'Specially for MHaye?

[CatInASuit]

And on a side note... how is town winning worse than another scum faction winning? This same sort of thought process was happening in M3 and MV as well, and I just don't get it. If you lose, you lose.
Oh yes, something slightly more interesting than Karaoke.

Blaster Master said this and I mentioned ABM which stands for "Anyone But Man Utd". It is also discussed as ABU or "Anyone But United"

This comes from the time when Man Utd where winning everything in sight (not quite true, but close enough) and the general feeling started that it didn't matter who won the season or trophy, as long as it was not Man Utd. Can also be applied to Chelsea as well nowadays.

Is there a similar point of view in the USA in any of the major sports, where you don't care who wins as long as it isn't a particular team?

I am not looking to do any strategising or meta gaming, I am actually curious to know if anyone outside the UK thinks like this or if it is a peculiarly British attitude?

[Hockey Monkey]

Ah, here it's Anybody But...Carolina, Duke, the Cowboys...etc.

[CatInASuit]

Ah, here it's Anybody But...Carolina, Duke, the Cowboys...etc.
So does that mean you would have no problems with your local team losing if it meant the the Cowboys could not make the playoffs?

[Hockey Monkey]

Something like that. I hate the Cowboys.

[Hockey Monkey]

Since we've gone from drinking to karaoke to sports...I'm working on a NHL Mafia setup. :D I don't know if anybody would ever be interested in playing, but it's been fun thinking it up. Other games I've got pen to paper on...The Simpsons, Star Trek TOS, and Star Trek TNG.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So does that mean you would have no problems with your local team losing if it meant the the Cowboys could not make the playoffs?

The only thing that consoled me after the Indians lost in the ALCS (the semifinals of baseball's playoffs) was that at least the Yankees weren't going to the World Series.

Although I should say that the Red Sox are becoming much like Chelsea is in the Premiership these days... buying their all-star team instead of developing them.

[Blaster Master]

Agreed. There are several sports teams that you either love or hate. The Cowboys are much like that, and being a Redskins fan, even moreso... if the 'Skins are doing poorly, it's some consolation if the Cowboys are doing as badly or worse.

Although, the greatest offender at this point is... The Patriots. Good GOD, I HATE HATE HATE them. Sure, the media is ablaze about "how great they are" and "what a dynasty they've made"... but you talk on the street, and most people are just sick of hearing about them.

Then again, probably even moreso than Manchester United, is the Yankees. They've won, what, 26 World Series? Even when they don't win, they're still one of the best teams in the league... I can't remember the last time they missed the play-offs... at least ten years. ...I'm just glad I'm not a baseball fan.

[CatInASuit]

Since we've gone from drinking to karaoke to sports...I'm working on a NHL Mafia setup. :D I don't know if anybody would ever be interested in playing, but it's been fun thinking it up. Other games I've got pen to paper on...The Simpsons, Star Trek TOS, and Star Trek TNG.
Blakes' Seven version with Blake and the crew vs Servalan and the Alliance vs the invading Andromedans.

Now that would be fun :)

[Freudian Slit]

I step out of the bar for a few minutes, and I come back and it's SPORTS?

I think we might have to start giving the zombies makeovers to counteract this testosterone laden environment. :)

[Rysto]

You all don't know the half of it. At least you guys have several teams from different cities in different sports to be bombarded with. Here in Canada, it's all Toronto Maple Leafs, all the time. We're talking about a team that hasn't won a Stanley Cup since 1967, has never won in a league with more than 8 teams, won the vast majority of the championships in a 6-team league and hasn't made the Finals since expansion.

And yet every Saturday, CBC shows Toronto playing some scrub team. CBC at least paid for that with pretty low ratings when Toronto's provincial rival made the Finals. In the past a Canadian team in the playoffs has been money for CBC but apparently Canadians don't want to watch a team they've never gotten a chance to watch.

[Hockey Monkey]

Rysto, are you sure you wanna get me started on hockey? Canes play Montreal again tomorrow night...lessee, when do we play the Leafs again...ah, December 18...I already have tickets. :D

[Santo Rugger]

Anybody But Bush???

Since we've gone from drinking to karaoke to sports...I'm working on a NHL Mafia setup. :D I don't know if anybody would ever be interested in playing, but it's been fun thinking it up. Other games I've got pen to paper on...The Simpsons, Star Trek TOS, and Star Trek TNG.

Simpsons would be pure awesomeness. I thought about trying to piece together a rugby one, with the forwards as town and the backs as Mafia, but didn't complete the thought.

[ShadowFacts]

Although, the greatest offender at this point is... The Patriots. Good GOD, I HATE HATE HATE them. Sure, the media is ablaze about "how great they are" and "what a dynasty they've made"... but you talk on the street, and most people are just sick of hearing about them.

OK, now I know you're scum! :D

But seriously, let us Patriots fans have a few years in the sun. Do you have any idea how pitiful the Patriots were for years and years and years? They were the original Cincinnatti Bungles.

(Although I understand why it would get annoying for you to hear about how incredibly awesome they are, since they are so incredibly awesome it's hard for the media not to talk about how incredibly awesome they are.)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Rysto, are you sure you wanna get me started on hockey? Canes play Montreal again tomorrow night...lessee, when do we play the Leafs again...ah, December 18...I already have tickets. :D

Ooh! I'm going to the Leafs game, too! We shouldtotally meet up afterwards, and talk nasty things about the people who turn out to be scum.

[sachertorte]

... but you talk on the street, and most people are just sick of hearing about them.
Odd. That's not the case here. :D

[Hockey Monkey]

Are you going to the Florida game on Nov 3rd? It's not a school night, and I can stay out longer drinking talking about scum. If not, I'll totally meet up after the Leafs game. What section are you going to be in?

[Blaster Master]

OK, now I know you're scum! :D

But seriously, let us Patriots fans have a few years in the sun. Do you have any idea how pitiful the Patriots were for years and years and years? They were the original Cincinnatti Bungles.

(Although I understand why it would get annoying for you to hear about how incredibly awesome they are, since they are so incredibly awesome it's hard for the media not to talk about how incredibly awesome they are.)

Odd. That's not the case here. :D

Oh, PLEASE PLEASE don't get me started. This isn't like playing with fire... it's like playing with the entire world's stock pile of nuclear weapons. If my hatred for the Patriots were made of material, it would have the density of the initial singularity of the universe at the moment of the Big Bang, and the size of the modern day Universe. If my spite for the Patriots were a number, it would require more digits than could be recorded if you had a byte for every atom in the universe.

The most horrifyingly depressing moment in my life was watching them play Dallas, and to find myself, a Redskins fan, actually slightly cheering for Dallas. It's like rooting for Saddam Hussein over Adolf Hitler... it makes me physically ill just thinking about it. Of course, I was hoping someone accidently filled the football with hydrgen, and it was ignited by a fluke spark from a neck-shattering collision. which would decimate all of the players on the field spraying bits of burning flesh hit into the stand onto the audience.

Satan lives among us. He has possessed the body of... Bill Parcels, and Bill Belichick sold his soul to him. He's like a frail, cut-off-hoodied, soulless banshee. His mere presence on the telvesion absorbs small parts of my soul, which he devours for his dark master. And Tom Brady... my eyes burn like I've just spent 6 hours glaring at the mid-day sun in Libya with my eyelids taped to my forehead. At the mention of their names, my ears bleed as if I'd just attended a Manowar concert and JFK airport. Their mere existence makes virile men impotent, fertile women barren, and children cry like the collective souls of the damned.

Boston... I can't even imagine the horrors of being in such close proximity to them. I cannot even bare the thought of even having a lay-over in Boston. If I felt nauseous in Denver (the third worst team ever, behind New England and Dallas) on a one hour lay over... I can only imagine a constant state of evisercation via vomiting. One of my best friends lived there for four years... I could never bring myself to visit.

Urm...anyway, I think you get the idea. I would go on, but to fully express the depths of my enmity for the Patriots, it would overwhelm the boards.

[Blaster Master]

NETA: No offense to you two, though. :p

[ShadowFacts]

NETA: No offense to you two, though. :p


None taken. :)




Tom Brady Tom Brady Tom Brady

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)
Satan lives among us. He has possessed the body of... Bill Parcels, and Bill Belichick sold his soul to him. He's like a frail, cut-off-hoodied, soulless banshee. His mere presence on the telvesion absorbs small parts of my soul, which he devours for his dark master. And Tom Brady... my eyes burn like I've just spent 6 hours glaring at the mid-day sun in Libya with my eyelids taped to my forehead. At the mention of their names, my ears bleed as if I'd just attended a Manowar concert and JFK airport. Their mere existence makes virile men impotent, fertile women barren, and children cry like the collective souls of the damned.

(snip)

So... you agree with this sportswriter's (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071023&sportCat=nfl) assessment?

(WARNING: Leads to ESPN site)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So... you agree with this sportswriter's (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071023&sportCat=nfl) assessment?

(WARNING: Leads to ESPN site)

Bill Belichek is obviously the back-up necromancer in this game. How else do you explain the Pats' linebacking corps(e)?

[Freudian Slit]

Sigh. More sports. Do I have to start making out with HazelNutCoffee?

[Hockey Monkey]

I think you know the answer to that!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Check him for fangs, while you're at it.

[CatInASuit]

Oh, PLEASE PLEASE don't get me started. This isn't like playing with fire... it's like playing with the entire world's stock pile of nuclear weapons. If my hatred for the Patriots were made of material, it would have the density of the initial singularity of the universe at the moment of the Big Bang, and the size of the modern day Universe. If my spite for the Patriots were a number, it would require more digits than could be recorded if you had a byte for every atom in the universe.

The most horrifyingly depressing moment in my life was watching them play Dallas, and to find myself, a Redskins fan, actually slightly cheering for Dallas. It's like rooting for Saddam Hussein over Adolf Hitler... it makes me physically ill just thinking about it. Of course, I was hoping someone accidently filled the football with hydrgen, and it was ignited by a fluke spark from a neck-shattering collision. which would decimate all of the players on the field spraying bits of burning flesh hit into the stand onto the audience.

Satan lives among us. He has possessed the body of... Bill Parcels, and Bill Belichick sold his soul to him. He's like a frail, cut-off-hoodied, soulless banshee. His mere presence on the telvesion absorbs small parts of my soul, which he devours for his dark master. And Tom Brady... my eyes burn like I've just spent 6 hours glaring at the mid-day sun in Libya with my eyelids taped to my forehead. At the mention of their names, my ears bleed as if I'd just attended a Manowar concert and JFK airport. Their mere existence makes virile men impotent, fertile women barren, and children cry like the collective souls of the damned.

Boston... I can't even imagine the horrors of being in such close proximity to them. I cannot even bare the thought of even having a lay-over in Boston. If I felt nauseous in Denver (the third worst team ever, behind New England and Dallas) on a one hour lay over... I can only imagine a constant state of evisercation via vomiting. One of my best friends lived there for four years... I could never bring myself to visit.

Urm...anyway, I think you get the idea. I would go on, but to fully express the depths of my enmity for the Patriots, it would overwhelm the boards.

Yup. I think he's got it. ;)

With a bit more practice, he could even pass for a real football supporter (soccer for those who don't know any better). :D

[HazelNutCoffee]

Check him for fangs, while you're at it.
I am a she, thankyouverymuch.

[CatInASuit]

I am a she, thankyouverymuch.

I think Diomedes is asking you to check out Zoggie for fangs.

Feel free to accept/decline.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Will this involve tongues?

[CatInASuit]

Will this involve tongues?

That probably depends on how much more sport we keep talking about.
.
.
.
So, Santos Rugger, did you watch much of the RWC 2007? Or are you a league fan instead?

And as for a Rugger Mafia game, as long as the Ozzies and the AB's are scum, I have no problems with the game. ;)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

That probably depends on how much more sport we keep talking about.
.
.
.
So, Santos Rugger, did you watch much of the RWC 2007? Or are you a league fan instead?

And as for a Rugger Mafia game, as long as the Ozzies and the AB's are scum, I have no problems with the game. ;)

All Blacks would make an excellent name for a group of conspiring thugs, wouldn't it? Especially with that mysterious look feather.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I am a she, thankyouverymuch.

Okay, then check her for fangs! And while you're at it, you can check each other for gender, as well. I think we've got a kiddie pool full of chocolate pudding somewhere around here, too...

[Blaster Master]

None taken. :)




Tom Brady Tom Brady Tom Brady

My eyes, they burn!

So... you agree with this sportswriter's (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/071023&sportCat=nfl) assessment?

(WARNING: Leads to ESPN site)

Very nice writing... could show more overt disgust and vitriol, but over-all, pulitzer worthy.

Yup. I think he's got it. ;)

With a bit more practice, he could even pass for a real football supporter (soccer for those who don't know any better). :D

I assure you, between my hatred of the Patriots, and my friend's hatred of the Packers (which I don't quite get)--at one point he was actually systematically researching hexes and curses to try to get their players injured--we would put any but the most rabid soccer fans to complete shame.

For the record, my hatred of the Patriots has existed for years... long before all this multiple superbowl, whining, moaning, cheating, poor-sportsmanship stuff... it only makes it more obvious that they are well deserving of any scrap of animosity that can be thrown their way.

[storyteller0910]

My eyes, they burn!
Very nice writing... could show more overt disgust and vitriol, but over-all, pulitzer worthy.


[horrified observer peeking in to say]

AUUUGGGGH...

Gregg Easterbrook?

Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sachertorte]

Oh, I don't actually care about the Patriots either way. The socialist in me wants them to lose. I just thought it was funny that Blaster Master referred to chit-chat on the street, which is obviously very different where I live.

[Blaster Master]

[horrified observer peeking in to say]

AUUUGGGGH...

Gregg Easterbrook?

Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, it's like writing a movie full of kung-fuing ninjas, sword-fighting barbarians, machine-gun weilding super-soldiers, many beautiful scantly clad women, with lots of explosions, blood, gore, nude scenes, and nostalgic references to 80s cartoons. And then complaining because the plot "doesn't make sense" and the script has "poor writing". Even a 4-year-old could write a pulitzer material if he wrote about how evil the Patriots were.

[DiggitCamara]

[horrified observer peeking in to say]

AUUUGGGGH...

Gregg Easterbrook?

Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, what do you have against him?

He assigned not one but TWO NFL teams to your city

He calls the Giants "New Jersey A" and the Jets "New Jersey B" because their stadium is actually located in or closer to New Jersey

[storyteller0910]

Dude, what do you have against him?


If you ever want an actual answer to that question, it will require a different thread in a different forum.

I hate Gregg Easterbrook. The fact that he is paid to write that ridiculously stupid column every week makes me want to kick a puppy. But I don't, because I'm pretty sure Gregg Easterbrook kicks puppies, and I don't want to be like him.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Dude, what do you have against him?

He assigned not one but TWO NFL teams to your city

He calls the Giants "New Jersey A" and the Jets "New Jersey B" because their stadium is actually located in or closer to New Jersey

Psst... Jersey ain't a city (well, unless you're talking about Jersey City. But you don't want to do that).

[Freudian Slit]

I am a she, thankyouverymuch.
All the better! (Yes, I am, too, but even a supernatural bar needs a couple of drunk girls getting it on.)

[Santo Rugger]

All the better! (Yes, I am, too, but even a supernatural bar needs a couple of drunk girls getting it on.)

*Goes to the jukebox and plays I Love this Bar - Toby Kieth*

Interesting. In looking up jukebox to make sure I spelled it right, the etymology said it comes from "jukehouse", a brothel, and "juke" was slang for sex.

*Fumbles through pockets and hurriedly puts more quarters in*

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
So, Santos Rugger, did you watch much of the RWC 2007? Or are you a league fan instead?

And as for a Rugger Mafia game, as long as the Ozzies and the AB's are scum, I have no problems with the game. ;)

League? What's that*?

I was only able to watch the France - Argentina match and the SA - England match. We were supposed to watch the final after our alumni match last weekend, but it was on a 24 hour tape delay, so I watched it at what I believe was one of only two bars in Albuquerque that showed it on Sunday.

Provo, Utah would most definitely be scum. Their entire team/city was banned from rugby for a huge brawl for, I believe, five years. They were in Albuquerque for a tourny this weekend for one of their first games back. Things don't seem to have improved.

*I know exactly what league is, but it's not at all popular in the States. When we play league in practice, it's more of a contact game of "touch" than anything else. It basically becomes "touch" without rucking.

[Hal Briston]

It's like rooting for Saddam Hussein over Adolf Hitler... Just like to note that that was the greatest analogy of all time. Thank you.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Game, game, game, game...

[Hockey Monkey]

Shortly. Hopefully very shortly.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I know we took until the last minute.... that might be Pleo's hold up.

[Pleonast]

One witch in particular may want to respond to my PM...

[Rysto]

It's on the Witches' board, Pleo.

[Blaster Master]

:Cue stereo-typical sope opera pipe organ.:

Was Hockey Monkey telling the truth about MHaye?

Is there a Vigilante and did he take out CatInASuit?

Was Blaster Master succeed in whatever dastardly plot he was scheming?

Did the scum kill any of the confirmed townies?

:Organ music reaches a climax and cuts out:

Find out... Tomorrow...

[Blaster Master]

BAH!

NETA: "Was Blaster Master successful in whatever..."

Goodness Gracious, I should stop using quick reply.*

*I'm hypcritically using quick reply to complain about quick reply.

[Pleonast]

The Night quiets and perchance so has the evil within it, for only one victim is found come morn: Idle Thoughts, strangled in his sleep. And yet another Zombie extracts its stiffened frame from the soil; nesta, or at least his corpse, has left his coffin.

The Village snoops find more revelations concerning the recently deceased. nesta and Kat were both members of the mysterious Cabal. And good ole Hal Briston was another Freemason who gave his life for the Town. But the worst news of all: Rysto was a Witch.

It is now Day Five.

[Santo Rugger]

Vote CatInASuit

[sachertorte]

Wow. When I logged in and saw that there was no PM for me, I thought I was dead. But I'm not, but I don't have info yet. Cutting up Idle Thoughts isn't as easy as it looks.

Oh, but I already know that MHaye indeed had furry tendencies: Wolf regular kind.