Mafia: The Conspiracy

[Blaster Master]

Dio, don't get over zealous yet. The probability that any one of these three at random is lying is significant. I would like to hear from Diggit before we start jumping to conclusions.

I have a theory, but I'll wait until after he has made his claim explain it.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

And before you guys jump all over me in regards to CatInASuit, I'll say right now I was blocked. I'm wondering if my "my role is something that scum would claim" comment tipped me off, but in any case, there is either a role with a Secret Power that involves blocking, or there is still a Cabal left amongst us. Which is completely possible assuming an unconfirmed Townie is actually the Omega.

I didn't roleclaim earlier because I didn't really see a need to. I have no secret information to share, and my role would have made me a Vampire target. We had too many Town power Roles and not enough protection to go around, so I made a judgement call and decided that laying low was the best option, despite your clamorings to reveal myself. :p

I already used my power, by the way. The Day nesta was ragging on me, I grew suspicious because - well, I know that I'm Town, and he just seemed so sure that I wasn't that I became convinced that he knew I was (if you get my drift). So I Stalked nesta and killed him that Night. I don't know what that means in regards to the Wolves. Either we accidentally picked the same target or they got blocked that Night.

And that's all I have to say. Oh, besides the fact that I think Zoggie is full of it.

See, Zoggie, this is the way to false-claim! This is a much better work of fantasy. I ain't buying that there's Cabal left: while I feel like there should have been more of them, there are still two wolves and an undead out there, and the numbers don't just add up for there to still be a Cabalist left..

Still waiting for a role-claim from Diggit. When we get that, I'll clear one of these two, diggit or Santos Rugger from Undead consideration, and everyone can make up their own minds as to who's the necromancer. Even if we can't lynch them today, hopefully the wolves will be able to reduce this to a Town/Wolf endgame.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Dio, don't get over zealous yet. The probability that any one of these three at random is lying is significant. I would like to hear from Diggit before we start jumping to conclusions.

I have a theory, but I'll wait until after he has made his claim explain it.

Me? Get overzealous? Never! ;)

[Blaster Master]

Here are the people that I wanted attacked if I were targeted:

First night:

Pygmy/Santos Rugger (totally random)

Second night:

Idle Thoughts (the witch doctor PM still seemed suspect)

Third Night

Diggit Camara (Back when he made that weird slip up, I suspected him)

Fourth Night

Shadow Facts (Another random one)

Fifth Night

Dotchan (The vicar claim seemed odd)

I'll be back this evening--going to a show this afternoon...have at it, all.

Okay... you need to explain yourself better than this.

Why would you target Shadow Facts knowing he was likely town? Why wouldn't you have targetted CatInASuit?

Why would you target Dotchan, knowing that we were going to get good solid information on her in the Morning?

Why would you target Idle know that his claim was fairly believable and ultimately testable?

[HazelNutCoffee]

Why couldn't there be one Cabal left? Having only three Cabal doesn't seem like a balanced game at all, if they don't have any killing powers. It's either that or someone has blocking powers that they aren't telling us about. And assuming that an unconfirmed Townie is the Omega Wolf, it IS possible for one Cabal to still be alive.

:: shrug :: There's not much else I can say. I'm not very valuable to the Town at this point, unless we have a Seer that comes forth with a list of scum. My suicidal tendencies make it difficult for me to kill at random, y'see.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Why couldn't there be one Cabal left? Having only three Cabal doesn't seem like a balanced game at all, if they don't have any killing powers. It's either that or someone has blocking powers that they aren't telling us about. And assuming that an unconfirmed Townie is the Omega Wolf, it IS possible for one Cabal to still be alive.

I suppose you do have apoint there... but then I'm still suspicious of your claimed stalk on nesta... where did the other kill go that night? I supposethat one was role-blocked, as well?

[ShadowFacts]

See, Zoggie, this is the way to false-claim! This is a much better work of fantasy. I ain't buying that there's Cabal left: while I feel like there should have been more of them, there are still two wolves and an undead out there, and the numbers don't just add up for there to still be a Cabalist left.

I tend to agree about not having enough space for a Cabalist. From my perspective, knowing that I am Town, and knowing there are 2 Wolves plus a Necromancer, it looks like this:

- Confirmed Claims -
* Diomedes - Witch
* Blaster Master - Witch
* sachertorte - Coroner

- Unconfirmed Claims -
* Santos Rugger - Freemason
* Zoggie - Magician
* HazelNutCoffee - Vigilante
* dotchan - Vicar (sorry, you're not 100% confirmed in my mind yet, although likely at this point)

- No Claims -
* DiggitCamara
* ShadowFacts (obviously, I have MYSELF as confirmed, but you guys cannot)

So (again from my point of view) there are absolutely at least 3 scum and 5 people to choose from. dotchan, while not confirmed to me, is probably the Vicar, so that makes it 3 scum out of 4.

So, if HNC is the Vig, then that leaves 3 people left for 2 wolves and a Necro. Not enough space for a Cabalist.

So, as I see it, if dotchan and I are telling the truth (and I am :p ), HNC could not have been blocked by a Cabalist, because there is no room left for one.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I suppose you do have apoint there... but then I'm still suspicious of your claimed stalk on nesta... where did the other kill go that night? I supposethat one was role-blocked, as well?
Well, obviously I don't know. I've already stated that there are a few possibilites - the Wolves abstained, the Wolves were blocked, the Wolves and I chose the same target. Take your pick. :)

As for ShadowFacts, well. Your theory depends on the assumption that you are telling the truth. And even if you are, that leaves Diggit, Rugger, Zoggie, and me as question marks. That's four, not three. Nice try.

[HazelNutCoffee]

NETA: Never mind. I misunderstood your point, Shadowfacts.

So, yes, either way, someone is lying.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

NETA: Never mind. I misunderstood your point, Shadowfacts.

So, yes, either way, someone is lying.


Or both of you are lying. Another strong possibility in my mind. There aren't that many good townie roles left after the Vig, Masons, Witches, Detective, and Vicar are gone. If Shadow's the Seer, he's taken an awfully big chance on waiting this long to reveal his information. And because at least one of the two of you is lying, I can't imagine Pleo including a Magician or Scotsman, but not a Vig. Just doesn't make sense.
But Shadow could definitely be the Omega, and you could be the other wolf... or the Necro... or even possibly a final hidden Cabalist...?

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>The probability that any one of these three at random is lying is significant. I would like to hear from Diggit before we start jumping to conclusions.

I have a theory, but I'll wait until after he has made his claim explain it.

Ditto.

I'd prefer if I can post mine first, after Diggit speaks up, just in case they're the same, it doesn't look like I'm chiming in with an "Ohh, me too!".

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

One problem with waiting for Diggit: I think he's one of those guys who tends to post Monday-Friday... if we wait for him, we might get down to another one of our race-to-the-clock deals for a lynching.

Just sayin' is all.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
Why would you target Shadow Facts knowing he was likely town? Why wouldn't you have targetted CatInASuit?
<snip>

Ding ding ding... I think my vote's going here.

[ShadowFacts]

Or both of you are lying. Another strong possibility in my mind. There aren't that many good townie roles left after the Vig, Masons, Witches, Detective, and Vicar are gone. If Shadow's the Seer, he's taken an awfully big chance on waiting this long to reveal his information. And because at least one of the two of you is lying, I can't imagine Pleo including a Magician or Scotsman, but not a Vig. Just doesn't make sense.
But Shadow could definitely be the Omega, and you could be the other wolf... or the Necro... or even possibly a final hidden Cabalist...?

(bolding mine)

Actually, according to what I outlined above, at least one of me, HNC and dotchan is lying, not just the two of us.

[ShadowFacts]

As for ShadowFacts, well. Your theory depends on the assumption that you are telling the truth. And even if you are, that leaves Diggit, Rugger, Zoggie, and me as question marks. That's four, not three. Nice try.

I know you corrected yourself after this post, but I do find it funny that you left yourself as a question mark here. It's almost like you didn't believe your own claim! :D

[Blaster Master]

Why couldn't there be one Cabal left? Having only three Cabal doesn't seem like a balanced game at all, if they don't have any killing powers. It's either that or someone has blocking powers that they aren't telling us about. And assuming that an unconfirmed Townie is the Omega Wolf, it IS possible for one Cabal to still be alive.

:: shrug :: There's not much else I can say. I'm not very valuable to the Town at this point, unless we have a Seer that comes forth with a list of scum. My suicidal tendencies make it difficult for me to kill at random, y'see.

What if I said I had reason to believe there were only three Cabal? :D

[ShadowFacts]

Ding ding ding... I think my vote's going here.

Indeed, that list is...questionable. Very questionable.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

(bolding mine)

Actually, according to what I outlined above, at least one of me, HNC and dotchan is lying, not just the two of us.

Part of my town winning strategy involves dotchan being truthfulin her claim. With Idle Thoughts remaining in the dirt, it makes it easier to buy her claim.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I know you corrected yourself after this post, but I do find it funny that you left yourself as a question mark here. It's almost like you didn't believe your own claim! :D
Well, I'm taking into account that my claim can't be verified. Rest assured that I am no question mark in my own mind. More like an exclamation point. ;)

If it can be confirmed that there are only three Cabal, then it just crosses off one possibility on the list of what could have happened on the Night I killed nesta.

[ShadowFacts]

Part of my town winning strategy involves dotchan being truthfulin her claim.

Well, that's good, but it doesn't really lend credence to her claim, does it? However...

With Idle Thoughts remaining in the dirt, it makes it easier to buy her claim.

I completely agree and said so just a few posts ago. But "makes it easier" is not 100% in my book, so it's still possible she is lying, and we would be foolish to forget that.

But I think we're getting off track here...

[Freudian Slit]

Shadow Facts seemed shady to me. I don't know--I can't give you much more than that...

As for my role not having a subtype, did Idle? He was a Witch Doctor--he wasn't anything more specific than that.

Anyway, believe me or not. We'll see what happens when it comes down to the lynching.

[Idle Thoughts]

Dead for good now? Cool. I can now say: Goooo Town!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Dead for good now? Cool. I can now say: Goooo Town!

Sorry about the snark, Idle. But I still think it would've been fun to see what you would have done if you'd woken up pale and thirsty....

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well, I'm taking into account that my claim can't be verified. Rest assured that I am no question mark in my own mind. More like an exclamation point. ;)

You're an exclamation point on my list, too! Too bad I haven't decoded the key yet to see if !=Vig or if !=Scum. :)

Witches all get ampersands. 'Cuz we're cool like that.

[Santo Rugger]

I know you corrected yourself after this post, but I do find it funny that you left yourself as a question mark here. It's almost like you didn't believe your own claim! :D

Yeah, that's a big black mark in my book, too.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Yeah, that's a big black mark in my book, too.

I don't count it particularly heavily against him. It's a more natural case to try to leave yourself as among the unknown if you're not confirmed.

[Santo Rugger]

I don't count it particularly heavily against him. It's a more natural case to try to leave yourself as among the unknown if you're not confirmed.

Right. But, the argument Hazel* was making was that there was one Cabal left. Shadow was running the numbers as to why there probably isn't. In order for the argument to even be discussed, it would be assumed Hazel is the Vig, for purposes of discussion. So her trying to rebut Shadow's post by saying "nice try, but there's four of us", seems pretty scummy, in my eyes.



*Hazel's a her. A rather cute her, at that.

Part one of my Grand Theory, coming up...

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Right. But, the argument Hazel* was making was that there was one Cabal left. Shadow was running the numbers as to why there probably isn't. In order for the argument to even be discussed, it would be assumed Hazel is the Vig, for purposes of discussion. So her trying to rebut Shadow's post by saying "nice try, but there's four of us", seems pretty scummy, in my eyes.



*Hazel's a her. A rather cute her, at that.

Part one of my Grand Theory, coming up...


You know, back when I was modding Party III, I knew that. Now, I know nothing. This board could do with a little Mars or Venus sign next to posters' names, you know?

I'd get more into this, but I'm significantly more intrigued with awaiting Rugger Plan Mk. I

[Santo Rugger]

Ok, this is part of what I was thinking earlier. I was leaning towards waiting, but I don't think it will matter as much as I thought I did if Diggit reads it before he claims.

Now, Hazel and Zoggie both claimed roles with night actions. These roles, "coincidentally", are both killing roles. Who can kill at night now that the vampires are all gone? That's right, the wolves. And how many wolves do we think are left? Two wolves likely left, two players claiming (possible) night killing roles.

Most everybody is familiar with how BlaM was the Vig in M2, and there was a separate vote each day for who he should kill. There was a big discussion in that game concerning how a claimed Vig could be scum, and just pick off people the town voted on. They would know the doctor wouldn't be protecting them, and would be able to have unabated kills until the town picked a scum target, and they'd have until then to explain their way out of it.

This may be a long shot, and there's probably several holes in my theory, but I think my vote is going to lie with Diggit, per this theory, pending further analysis.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
I'd get more into this, but I'm significantly more intrigued with awaiting Rugger Plan Mk. I

Speaking of Mks, I used to do testing with the MK84 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb). This would probably have been more appropriate to mention in the Firefly game, considering the bomb's nickname (which I just found out while looking for the article!):

The Mark 84 is an American general-purpose bomb, the largest of the Mark 80 series of weapons. Entering service during the Vietnam War, it was nicknamed "Hammer" for its considerable power.

[Blaster Master]

Ok, this is part of what I was thinking earlier. I was leaning towards waiting, but I don't think it will matter as much as I thought I did if Diggit reads it before he claims.

Now, Hazel and Zoggie both claimed roles with night actions. These roles, "coincidentally", are both killing roles. Who can kill at night now that the vampires are all gone? That's right, the wolves. And how many wolves do we think are left? Two wolves likely left, two players claiming (possible) night killing roles.

Most everybody is familiar with how BlaM was the Vig in M2, and there was a separate vote each day for who he should kill. There was a big discussion in that game concerning how a claimed Vig could be scum, and just pick off people the town voted on. They would know the doctor wouldn't be protecting them, and would be able to have unabated kills until the town picked a scum target, and they'd have until then to explain their way out of it.

This may be a long shot, and there's probably several holes in my theory, but I think my vote is going to lie with Diggit, per this theory, pending further analysis.

Well, here's a simple solution... if both of them make it through the Day, have Hazel target Zoggie and Zoggie target Hazel. If Zoggie dies and Hazel doesn't, then Zoggie was lying scum and deserved to die, but Hazel could still be a Wolf. If neither dies, Hazel is lying scum, and Zoggie is indeterminent. If both die, they're both telling the truth... but that is impossible.

At least one of them MUST be scum because I would consider Dotchan confirmed for several reasons (among them Idle staying dead and that a Vicar must exist to balance out the undead, and there's no counter-claim, which a wise true Vicar would have done Yesterday). Thus, unless all of Shadow, Diggit, and Rugger are the remaining scum, at least one must lie amongst Zoggie and Hazel. Plus, due to knowledge that Dio hinted at, I can confirm that at least one of Shadow, Diggit, and Rugger is definitely town.

Thus, this is a simple test that both should be inclined to follow, because whichever (if either) is telling the truth, they can be 100% certain the other is scum.

:D

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well, here's a simple solution... if both of them make it through the Day, have Hazel target Zoggie and Zoggie target Hazel. If Zoggie dies and Hazel doesn't, then Zoggie was lying scum and deserved to die, but Hazel could still be a Wolf. If neither dies, Hazel is lying scum, and Zoggie is indeterminent. If both die, they're both telling the truth... but that is impossible.


Yeah, but they won't make it through the day. Because Zoggie's the necro (I hope). So we should lynch her. :D

[Santo Rugger]

Yeah, but they won't make it through the day. Because Zoggie's the necro (I hope). So we should lynch her. :D

Why do you think that? A wolf can give the identical bad fake claim that a necro can.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Why do you think that? A wolf can give the identical bad fake claim that a necro can.

Oh, don't get me wrong. This is a total vibe thing going on. But I am fairly certain that Zoggie's some brand of scum.
And for what it's worth, you're my number two necro target. But these guesses is totally coming out of my butt. Because a necro doesn't have any night conversations, and doesn't do any killings, I don't even know what sort of 'tells' to look for. This is purely a guessing game, I think, unless someone has additional information they're not sharing.

[ShadowFacts]

Plus, due to knowledge that Dio hinted at, I can confirm that at least one of Shadow, Diggit, and Rugger is definitely town.


Are you waiting to hear from Diggit before you put that knowledge out there?

[Blaster Master]

Are you waiting to hear from Diggit before you put that knowledge out there?

We will see how his role claim comes out, and then go from there.

[ShadowFacts]

We will see how his role claim comes out, and then go from there.

That's cool - just wondering.

[sachertorte]

I love a good trap, but traps are more effective when they are hidden.

As for my role not having a subtype, did Idle? He was a Witch Doctor--he wasn't anything more specific than that.
Idle Thoughts claimed Witchdoctor (Speaker for the Dead), which aligned with his secret power.
Enders Game reference I think.

Ok, this is part of what I was thinking earlier. I was leaning towards waiting, but I don't think it will matter as much as I thought I did if Diggit reads it before he claims.

Now, Hazel and Zoggie both claimed roles with night actions. These roles, "coincidentally", are both killing roles. Who can kill at night now that the vampires are all gone? That's right, the wolves. And how many wolves do we think are left? Two wolves likely left, two players claiming (possible) night killing roles.

Most everybody is familiar with how BlaM was the Vig in M2, and there was a separate vote each day for who he should kill. There was a big discussion in that game concerning how a claimed Vig could be scum, and just pick off people the town voted on. They would know the doctor wouldn't be protecting them, and would be able to have unabated kills until the town picked a scum target, and they'd have until then to explain their way out of it.

This may be a long shot, and there's probably several holes in my theory, but I think my vote is going to lie with Diggit, per this theory, pending further analysis.I didn't follow this at all. The idea seems to have been about Hazel and Zoggie, then suddenly the suspicion is on Diggit? :confused:

Well, here's a simple solution... if both of them make it through the Day, have Hazel target Zoggie and Zoggie target Hazel. If Zoggie dies and Hazel doesn't, then Zoggie was lying scum and deserved to die, but Hazel could still be a Wolf. If neither dies, Hazel is lying scum, and Zoggie is indeterminent. If both die, they're both telling the truth... <snip>If they are both telling the truth Hazel will die. However, we cannot reconstruct 'truth' from the outcomes because scum could intervene.

[sachertorte]

Any surviving Magician or Vigilante should target an UNKNOWN tonight. The chance of a hypothetical Vig hitting Scum is high, and even if the Vig misses and hits Town, taking out and unknown is totally worth it. If the Vig kills unknown tonight, and kills unknown Tomorrow night (all this will be before Pleonast reveals the alignment of the first Vig kill*) We should be able to wrap this up.
Of course, we don't actually have a Vig in this game so this discussion is moot, but just in case we do...

* I checked way back that my reveals of alignment have no effect on the Vigilante. Should the Vigilante kill Town and I reveal as such, the Vig is safe until Pleonast's public reveal.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
I didn't follow this at all. The idea seems to have been about Hazel and Zoggie, then suddenly the suspicion is on Diggit? :confused: <snip>

I'm postulating that all three are scum. Hazel and Zoggie are wolves. Then Diggit must be the necro.

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)
Plus, due to knowledge that Dio hinted at, I can confirm that at least one of Shadow, Diggit, and Rugger is definitely town.

(snip)

Actually, I can do a bit better than that: according to Dio, you investigated Shadow and came up "Town".

If I'm right about that, we have:

Shadow as Town
Rugger as the Omega Wolf

I am the last freemason, whose "secret power" is that of being the accountant... thus I know there were only 4 masons at the game's start.

I didn't counterclaim Rugger because I was hoping that he'd miscalculated. When Pleonast disclosed Hal's role, I decided against a counterclaim simply because I didn't want to derail the Cat's lynch.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Great. Two Freemasons, each one saying the other is lying. Is there any way to prove either claim? I am in no state to think - I've just had too much wine.

[DiggitCamara]

Great. Two Freemasons, each one saying the other is lying. Is there any way to prove either claim? I am in no state to think - I've just had too much wine.
Nope. Other than lynching one of us and waiting for the next Evening to figure out our claim. (Or, failing that, for events during the Night).

But look on the bright side: Two (or three) less people who can be the Necromancer.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
I didn't counterclaim Rugger because I was hoping that he'd miscalculated. When Pleonast disclosed Hal's role, I decided against a counterclaim simply because I didn't want to derail the Cat's lynch.

Ok, this is all kinds of messed up.

First, if you were a Freemason, why didn't you try to show me the sign when I claimed, or the next Day?

Second, how could I have "miscalculated"? I had no idea how many others there were to start with. There was no calculation on my part.

Third, the reason I said there were no "powers that could confirm me", when I was asked, is because the secret powers that were granted to the Freemasons only worked if there were more than one left alive. With only me surviving, I was SoL. When I read my PM, I thought of it as Captain Planet, iow, "With Our Powers Combined..."

If there were two or more remaining, we'd be able to track down one killer. Well, indirectly. The flavor is that a group of Freemasons would be hanging out, would hear a killing happen, and try to intervene. Although the attempted killer would run off, the victim would be able to identify the attacker, since it was only attempted.

Of course, we'd have to chose amongst ourselves who to hang out near that Night. It wouldn't matter if it was the attacker or the victim, the effect would be the same. But, before that could happen, we'd have to have identified each other during the Day.

A slight clarification about the meaning of Day, while we're at it. I was slightly confused when I got my PM, that said I could show my sign to anybody at any time during the Day. I interpreted this as being a 24 Hour (capital H) period, so I PMed Pleo with my first "flash", if you will, during the first Night. In retrospect, I should have waited until near the end of the first Day, so I could have picked up any breadcrumbs that only a fellow Mason would have been looking for.

And, the biggest fax paus is that there's no way the Cat's lynch could have been "simply derailed", because we knew Cat was undead, which was the biggest (and most easily eliminated if known) threat to the town, the wolves, and the Cabal at that point in time (and now).

Zoggie's claim is shaky, Hazel's raises an eyebrow, but Diggit's claim is just flat out wrong.

As per my previous explanation,

Vote DiggitC

[DiggitCamara]

Ok, this is all kinds of messed up.

First, if you were a Freemason, why didn't you try to show me the sign when I claimed, or the next Day?

Second, how could I have "miscalculated"? I had no idea how many others there were to start with. There was no calculation on my part.

Third, the reason I said there were no "powers that could confirm me", when I was asked, is because the secret powers that were granted to the Freemasons only worked if there were more than one left alive. With only me surviving, I was SoL. When I read my PM, I thought of it as Captain Planet, iow, "With Our Powers Combined..."

(snip)
Simple:

1. I sent my choice to "check your status" during Day 2. Why you? Well, because in all the games I have seen you play you have been scum. And I wanted to get you off the table ASAP
2. Simple: as the Omega Wolf your best bet was to claim before anyone checked you out but as soon as the last mason was "off the table". You gambled one of the dead of the last Night (at the time) was a Mason (thus making it 3 dead masons) and thinking there were only 3 masons in the game.
3. Interesting. So what is it, do you or don't you have secret powers? I already stated my full claim (including secret powers). I gather you say you DO have secret powers, now decommissioned as there is just one freemason left (me, of course).

As it stands, I'm quite willing to get lynched myself right now. After all, that would give the town a good chance that the Night after this one the Vig could pick off one of the (two?) remaining wolves. And one of the necromancer candidates (namely: me) would be off the list. The town would know who the Omega Wolf is (with very good certainty), taking HIM of the list as well.

Like several people have said: there's pressing need to get the necromancer asap.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well.... now we have all our cards on the table. Well, all our cards except for Shadow's. Shadow is definitely not the necro, but I will expect a claim from him tomorrow, and whatever information he can spare. For right now, I will say: Diggit is not our man. While he may be the Omega, he's definitely not the Necro. We investigated him last night, and he came up Town.

Honestly, I believe his claim a little more than Santos Rugger. But that's besidethe point right now.
Our lynch pool is Zoggie, HazelNut, and Santos, if we're going to kill the Necro tonight. One of those three is definitely the Necro... hopefully at least one of them is a wolf, so if we mislynch the Necro, the wolves will know for sure whom the Necro is. I hope the Wolves will try to outthink the town in an endgame rather than letting the undead win tonight if they kill a confirmed townie.

I'm still keeping with my vote of Zoggie. If she's a wolf, it might behoove her to claim. I, andthe other town will back off, and although we'll lynch her tomorrow, it will still give the other wolf a chance at winning. If she false-claims wolf, the Wolves will know she's the Necro, and can kill her tonight. If she is a wolf, I'm strongly leaning towards Santos Rugger as the Necro.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, just to throw some fuel on the fire... and to clarify a bit on what Dio said without giving it all away.

Last Night, we investigated one between Diggit Camara and Santo Rugger and received a reading that eliminates that person from being the Necromancer. Now, knowing this when he made his claim, if Diggit is lying, he would have known that you were NOT a lying Necromancer and also Not a wolf (because he would be one), thus he would have known you were telling the truth, making it a dangerous claim. Thus, I find his claim fairly believable, and certainly not the actions of a Necromancer, but possibly the actions of a wolf.

Similarly, your actions are inconsistent with a Necromancer. It would have been very risky as the Necromancer to claim to be a mason with only knowing two were dead. HOWEVER, it is entirely possible that you have a secret power as a wolf or even as a Necromancer to determine the death and perhaps knew that Hal was a mason, and thus made your claim hoping that there were only three.

At this point, it's clear that at least one of the two of you is lying, but I also think it's a very low probability that either of you is the Necromancer. I am QUITE certain that the Necromancer lies between Hazel and Zoggie. Thus, I think a vote for either of you is a waste and counter-productive at this point. HOWEVER, with the knowledge that the witches know the reading of one of the two of you... I would like to see more of you two duking it out so we can get a clear reading on the other with that knowledge. :D

[Blaster Master]

NETA: BAH! I should have previewed.

[Blaster Master]

Okay, let's run some numbers again, now that we have all of the relevant claims:

- Confirmed Claims -
* Diomedes - Witch
* Blaster Master - Witch
* sachertorte - Coroner
* Dotchan - Vicar

- NOT Necromancer -
* Diggit Camara - Freemason
* ShadowFacts - Unclaimed

- Possible Necromancer -
* Santos Rugger - Freemason
* Zoggie - Magician
* HazelNutCoffee - Vigilante

That's 9 people alive, which means 13 dead now, or 14 at the end of the Day with 6 blessed by the Vicar (including Idle) and 4 Zombies. That's a 60% chance of a block on the Necromancer (67% if the can't Zombify Cat).

IOW, if we lynch wrong Today, the Wolves kill a Townie, and the Necromancer succeeds... the game is over at Sunup. Worst case, that's a 27% chance. However, since I highly doubt that Rugger is the Necromancer, I'd say more like 20% chance.

So, in my mind, there's really two possible scenarios:

1) We choose a lynchee between Hazel and Zoggie. If we're right, only the Wolves know, and they target a confirmed townie. If we're wrong, and got the Alpha-Wolf, they'll probably figure they're sunk and, if they think like Cat, may choose to essentially forfeit the game to the Undead. If we're wrong and got a Townie, they'll then know who the Necromancer is for sure, and would still stand a reasonable chance of winning. Further, with this course of action, we'd be depending on the Wolves to make a choice for us, based on information we won't have until the next Day.

2) We choose a no lynch. There is zero chance of losing the game at Sunup, we have one more read between Zoggie and Hazel which should give us a pretty much guaranteed bead on the Necromancer, and chances are one between me and Dio will be dead (although, our powers wouldn't be useful anymore, so I'm not sure if it would be their wisest move). This would put us in a 3-confirmed town, 1 Necro, 5-unconfirmed with 2 scum left... or 2-confirmed, 5-unconfirmed after the Necro is taken out. That means 2 mis-lynches before the Wolves win.


IOW, option one provides a small chance of an Undead win Tomorrow, but pretty much a very small chance of a Wolf win. Option two provides pretty much a zero chance of an Undead win, but a chance for a wolf win.

At this point, I'm willing to take my chances with a lynch today, hoping we're right, and if we're wrong, hoping the wolves won't just give up by killing a confirmed at that point, and go for whom they pretty much KNOW is the Necromancer. Either way, they're stuck with making us get two mis-lynches, so I can't imagine why they'd essentialy forfeit. Thoughts?

At this point, I'm leaning toward a Zoggie lynch.

[sachertorte]

Great. Two Freemasons, each one saying the other is lying. Is there any way to prove either claim? I am in no state to think - I've just had too much wine.
I've been re-reading a bit and I would just like to point out that HazelNutCoffee often makes posts like this that have no substance and essentially say "I'm so confused!" Looks scummy to me, but that's not saying much as there is plenty of scum to go around.

[sachertorte]

Well.... now we have all our cards on the table. Well, all our cards except for Shadow's. Shadow is definitely not the necro, but I will expect a claim from him tomorrow, and whatever information he can spare. For right now, I will say: Diggit is not our man. While he may be the Omega, he's definitely not the Necro. We investigated him last night, and he came up Town.

Honestly, I believe his claim a little more than Santos Rugger. But that's besidethe point right now.
I feel the opposite. Santo Rugger claimed with only Two Freemasons confirmed. DiggitCamara is claiming Two Days after Santo Rugger. Diggit should know that uncontested claims gain confidence over time. If DiggitCamara is going to counter claim now, he needs to give a very good explanation for his tardiness. His explanation that he didn't want to derail the CatInASuit lynch is laughable. Cat's Day was the PERFECT time to counterclaim. The Lynch was set. We had very little to talk about besides dotchan and her Vicar claim. (Didn't you notice my erroneous calling out of dotchan? Did that derail the CatInASuit lynch? No, not one bit). If Diggit had claimed yesterday, we could have spent yesterday leisurely yakking about Santo Rugger and DiggitCamara. Now we have to discuss DiggitCamara and Santo Rugger as well as choose between HazelNutCoffee and Zoggie.
Anti-town!
I feel the onus is on DiggitCamara to demonstrate that his actions have been for the good of the town, because so far, they seem like really bad choices to me.

Plus there is the whole DiggitCamara totally misunderstanding roles thing. I don't see how DiggitCamara could be a Freemason and not understand that the Vigilante is not a Freemason. Furthermore, I don't see how a Freemason, who thought the Vigilante was a special type of Freemason would have voted to lynch One And Only Wanderers who claimed Vigilante. If DiggitCamara thought the Vigilante was a Freemason, wouldn't DiggitCamara have tried to stop the OAOW lynch so he could handshaky with OAOW?
As it stands, I'm quite willing to get lynched myself right now. After all, that would give the town a good chance that the Night after this one the Vig could pick off one of the (two?) remaining wolves. And one of the necromancer candidates (namely: me) would be off the list. The town would know who the Omega Wolf is (with very good certainty), taking HIM of the list as well.

Like several people have said: there's pressing need to get the necromancer asap.DiggitCamara seems pretty cavalier about getting lynched when failing to lynch the Necromancer loses the game.

[sachertorte]

Night Kill Data:
Night One - amrussell killed by Wolves, Fretful Portpentine killed by Vampire
Night Two - Rysto and Hal Briston Killed (unknown kill assignments)
Night Three - Kat killed by Vampire, nesta killed by Wolves
Night Four - Idle Thoughts cursed by Vampire, (Wolves no kill or are blocked)
Night Five - Hockey Monkey killed by Wolves

Supposition: The Vampire knew the identity of the Necromancer from the beginning.
Evidence: Three night kills in a row, the Vampire targetted unclaimed players over identified players who were clearly not the Necromancer. This tactic is risky. However, if CatInASuit knew the identity of the Necromancer from the game outset, the choices make a whole lot more sense.

Anyone endeavoring to re-read the thread should keep this possibility in mind when perusing CatInASuit's posts and actions.

[sachertorte]

Post 541:
Er, what are the kill possibilities again? Vigilante, Vampire, and Werewolves, right?

I can see why amrussell was killed, but Fret seems somewhat random to me, at least at this point. Although I suppose if it was a Vampire kill that makes sense; all the Vampire wants to do is kill everyone, no? (Except the Necromancer, I suppose.)

Maybe something will surface upon re-reading yesterDay's posts.
HazelNutCoffee wrote this before I revealed that Fretful Porpentine was a Wolf. She pieces together that Fretful was killed by the Vampire with no public information to reach that conclusion. If anything amrussell would make for the more logical Vampire kill. Only by knowing that Fretful was a Wolf would one think the Vampire killed Fretful and not amrussell.
I feel this indicates that HazelNutCoffee is a Werewolf. As a Werewolf, she is not the town's target for today.

That leaves:
vote Zoggie

[HazelNutCoffee]

I already explained my wording for that post. For me the kill made more sense if it had been a Vampire one, because there seemed to be no rationale behind it. I felt a Vampire would kill more randomly than the Wolves would, which may be a faulty line of reasoning, but that's what I was thinking at the time.

Since sachertorte seems to have a problem with me making anything other than deep and meaningful posts when I'm perfectly awake and sober, I'll shut up now.

[DiggitCamara]

I feel the opposite. Santo Rugger claimed with only Two Freemasons confirmed. DiggitCamara is claiming Two Days after Santo Rugger. Diggit should know that uncontested claims gain confidence over time. If DiggitCamara is going to counter claim now, he needs to give a very good explanation for his tardiness. His explanation that he didn't want to derail the CatInASuit lynch is laughable. Cat's Day was the PERFECT time to counterclaim. The Lynch was set. We had very little to talk about besides dotchan and her Vicar claim. (Didn't you notice my erroneous calling out of dotchan? Did that derail the CatInASuit lynch? No, not one bit). If Diggit had claimed yesterday, we could have spent yesterday leisurely yakking about Santo Rugger and DiggitCamara. Now we have to discuss DiggitCamara and Santo Rugger as well as choose between HazelNutCoffee and Zoggie.
Anti-town!
I feel the onus is on DiggitCamara to demonstrate that his actions have been for the good of the town, because so far, they seem like really bad choices to me.

Plus there is the whole DiggitCamara totally misunderstanding roles thing. I don't see how DiggitCamara could be a Freemason and not understand that the Vigilante is not a Freemason. Furthermore, I don't see how a Freemason, who thought the Vigilante was a special type of Freemason would have voted to lynch One And Only Wanderers who claimed Vigilante. If DiggitCamara thought the Vigilante was a Freemason, wouldn't DiggitCamara have tried to stop the OAOW lynch so he could handshaky with OAOW?
DiggitCamara seems pretty cavalier about getting lynched when failing to lynch the Necromancer loses the game.
Hey, sacher, let's be honest: we all have our reasons why and when we do certain stuff (remember your discussions with Idle about this?) The thing is, though, when Rugger claimed it was clear to me that a disclosure of my role would lead to a derailment of the Cat's lynching. The thing is: the Cat claimed he had a bomb. And, like the Day before, most people would probably have chosen the "safe" vote (Rugger or me) to leave Dio to live another Day. And at the time it was obvious to me that we couldn't afford to let the vampire have another Night to kill. YMMV.

My confusion about the FreeMasons can be explained (though it still may seem stupid).

1. The idea that the Vigilante was a FreeMason made me think that I didn't need to derail OAOW's lynch for a simiple reason: he claimed Vigilante, not FreeMason. If you have a secondary role, which role would you have claimed first? (I, at least, would have claimed FreeMason)
2. The whole thing about secret identities and abilities hadn't been disclosed at the time (not that I remember, anyway). And the thing is: I was told I had a secret additional power, that I was the Accountant. The thing is: I thought that because there were more players than Pleonast had originally envisioned, that he had pulled an additional role out of the hat (Accountant) so that all FreeMasons would have their "role". I'm wrong, I know, but still there you are.

That said, I concur with our Witches: we need to get the Necromancer. So, for now, I will vote Zoggie

[Blaster Master]

My best guesses at this point:

Zoggie is the Necromancer and must die today.

Hazel is the Alpha-Wolf and the witches can verify this Tonight OR we can try to block something (incase we're wrong, it lowers the chance of a Sunup somewhat) assuming this is correct, and lynch her tomorrow anyway without 100% certainty.

That leaves 2 mis-lynches to find the Omega-Wolf amongst Rugger, Diggit, and Shadow... in essence, a guaranteed Town win at that point (IIRC my math I crunched earlier).

So, without further ado...

Vote Zoggie

Ironically enough, if Zoggie IS the Necromancer, the only way I could see her saving herself is trying to convince us she's the Alpha-Wolf, and getting us to lynch Hazel instead. Similarly, if she's the Alpha-Wolf, the only way she could preserve any chance of a Wolf victory is to claim as well, and then taking out the other Necro candidate we don't lynch Today. IOW, don't be surprised if we actually see such a claim, or even combatting claims of Alpha-Wolf. That'd be pure funniness

[dotchan]

According to the setup, the Undead don't know each other (but since Pleonast is a bastard mod ;), I wouldn't be surprised if either the Vampire or the Necro had some sort of secret power to locate the other).

Question for the Town in general: Other than the investigated-as-town Diggitcamara's assertion that he checked Santos Rugger out, what other assertion do we have that Santos Rugger is clearly not the Necromancer?

Hazel: What was it about Fretful Porpentine's death that seemed "haphazard"? That post of yours does reek a bit of too much knowledge. Also, did you try to kill anyone OTHER than CatInASuit?

Zoggie: What made my claim so fishy that you were willing to risk killing me instead of waiting the Night to see whether Idle Thoughts would rise from the grave?

BTW, I don't think the wolves are going to cooperate with us on this one. If Blaster's numbers are correct, they may be willing to let the Undead win rather than giving Town a sure victory.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Question for the Town in general: Other than the investigated-as-town Diggitcamara's assertion that he checked Santos Rugger out, what other assertion do we have that Santos Rugger is clearly not the Necromancer?

BTW, I don't think the wolves are going to cooperate with us on this one. If Blaster's numbers are correct, they may be willing to let the Undead win rather than giving Town a sure victory.


There's no particulary good reason. Actually, if HazelNut -is- the Vig, I think we've got the win locked up as well: we lynch Zoggie tonight and he stabs Santos. The Necro has to be one of those three (unless it's you, I suppose... but I'm thinking that's along shot).

On the other hand, I think you're right about the Wolves helping us out. If Zoggie isn't the Necro, and we don't have a Vig, the Wolves could very well attack one of the pro-Town roles and give the Undead the win. Their chances of winning are very small at this point.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I've already explained my reasoning at the time - it was obvious why amrussell was killed (he was a claimed Freemason) but Fretful had been pretty much off the radar for the most part, and because I assumed that the Vampire just wants to pile up bodies, the seemingly random kill would have been more likely to have been a Vampire one. (I never used the word "haphazard" either, so I dunno why you put it in quotes.) So apparently my short-sighted reasoning is a scum tell.

And again I already explained I killed nesta after I Stalked him and confirmed he was Caba;.

Look. Don't you think that if I were false claiming Vig, I would have merely mentioned that I tried to kill CatInASuit and was blocked in some way? Why would I unnecessarily complicate my story by adding the bit about nesta?

[HazelNutCoffee]

NETA: I am a girl.

Here. Picture proof (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x163/faeriehazel/bored/Picture004.jpg). Really. That's me. I promise.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I've already explained my reasoning at the time - it was obvious why amrussell was killed (he was a claimed Freemason) but Fretful had been pretty much off the radar for the most part, and because I assumed that the Vampire just wants to pile up bodies, the seemingly random kill would have been more likely to have been a Vampire one. (I never used the word "haphazard" either, so I dunno why you put it in quotes.) So apparently my short-sighted reasoning is a scum tell.

And again I already explained I killed nesta after I Stalked him and confirmed he was Caba;.

Look. Don't you think that if I were false claiming Vig, I would have merely mentioned that I tried to kill CatInASuit and was blocked in some way? Why would I unnecessarily complicate my story by adding the bit about nesta?


Hazel, it doesn't matter if we believe you or not, at this point. You don't need to argue for your life: Tonight, we lynch Zoggie. If you're the Vig, you kill Santos. Then we'll start chopping away at the unconfirmed. Whether or not we lynch you tomorrow (or at any point), your side pretty much has already determined whether or not you win or lose in this game:

HNC is Town (and Vig): HNC wins
HNC is Wolf: HNC loses
HNC is Undead: HNC wins
HNC is Cabal: HNC loses

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

NETA: I am a girl.

Here. Picture proof (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x163/faeriehazel/bored/Picture004.jpg). Really. That's me. I promise.


D'oh d'oh and double d'oh. Maybe it's because I can't imagine a woman as being either a slavering werewolf or cold-blooded vigilante. But I'm having some sort of block on seeing you as a woman.

but on viewing your pic.... How you doin'? ;)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Just out of curiosity - what if I don't believe Santos is scum? (Before y'all start jumping all over me, I am merely hypothesizing here. I haven't made up my mind either way.) I don't think there's any clear evidence tilting in favor of either Santos or Diggit at this point. Either one of them could be lying. What makes you so sure it's Santos? I'm willing to be convinced.

No worries about the gender confusion, but I noticed you, Dio, seemed to persist in calling me a guy, so I thought having a picture to associate my name with might help. :)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Just out of curiosity - what if I don't believe Santos is scum? (Before y'all start jumping all over me, I am merely hypothesizing here. I haven't made up my mind either way.) I don't think there's any clear evidence tilting in favor of either Santos or Diggit at this point. Either one of them could be lying. What makes you so sure it's Santos? I'm willing to be convinced.

No worries about the gender confusion, but I noticed you, Dio, seemed to persist in calling me a guy, so I thought having a picture to associate my name with might help. :)

Because Blaster and I investigated Diggit last night, and he came up Town. While he might yet be a Wolf, he's definitely not the Necromancer. And we need to kill the Necro before tomorrow morning.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Okay, I missed that part.

So even if Santos is not scum, you're saying it's an expendable Town death, even if it means I'm going to be dead the following Night.

I'm not feeling the love here! ;)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Okay, I missed that part.

So even if Santos is not scum, you're saying it's an expendable Town death, even if it means I'm going to be dead the following Night.

I'm not feeling the love here! ;)

I'll tell you what: You actually get two nights before you have to kill yourself. The game most likely will be over before you have to start knifing yourself.

Tell you what, we witches will protect you from yourself when we get that junction, okay?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

NETA: And weird looking posts like that are what happens when you get interrupted while composing a post, and forget to read what you've written before hitting reply. Stupid no-edit in this game..

[ShadowFacts]

Tom Brady told me to

Vote Zoggie

(sorry, Blaster, I couldn't resist)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Tom Brady told me to

Vote Zoggie

(sorry, Blaster, I couldn't resist)

Shadow's first on the lynch block for the unconfirmed.

[ShadowFacts]

Shadow's first on the lynch block for the unconfirmed.

It was worth it :D

[Blaster Master]

Tom Brady told me to

Vote Zoggie

(sorry, Blaster, I couldn't resist)

Then You must be the soulless necro-mancer...

oh wait... you're not... DAMNIT!

[Blaster Master]

Okay, I missed that part.

So even if Santos is not scum, you're saying it's an expendable Town death, even if it means I'm going to be dead the following Night.

I'm not feeling the love here! ;)

Actually, if you're telling the truth, then Santos HAS to be scum of some sort, because between the three of you lies at least two scum, so we won't have to worry about anything.

Thus, if you're telling the truth, the game is essentially over with a town victory, because only the omega will be left and we'll have all but two people confirmed with a lynch AND a vig. If you somehow manage NOT to kill him, you'll be presumed a liar, be lynched tomorrow, and we'll just be a step behind, with three unconfirmed and only a lynch.

So... hope you don't get blocked. :D

[sachertorte]

Um, we're forgetting one tiny but important fact. If Santo Rugger is the Necromancer and HazelNutCoffee is a Wolf, then by not lynching Santo Rugger we lose the game. I think we need to at least discuss the Santo Rugger v. DiggitCamara Freemason issue.

- I originally put Santo Rugger on my "not willing to lynch" list because I believed his claim. His timing was perfect. He claimed about an hour after I revealed that Drain Bead was a Freemason (mitigating factors: Santo Rugger had several posts between my reveal of Freemason Drain Bead and Santo Rugger's claim. I'm not sure what to make of the time delay). Hal Briston's Freemason status had not yet been established at that time.

- I am suspicious of DiggitCamara for his delay in counterclaiming Santo Rugger. DiggitCamara says he checked Santo Rugger on Day Two. He should have known immediately that Santo Rugger was lying, yet he said nothing. If I were a Mason, I'd feel very strong pressure to reveal a known scum. The risk of my dying before telling the truth would be too great. Consider the hypothetical that DiggitCamara is a Mason and Santo Rugger is not. Had DiggitCamara died and was then revealed to be a Freemason, we would have taken Diggit's silence as CONFIRMATION of Santo Rugger. A real Mason would have realized this.

- However, from a behaviorial standpoint I lean towards believing DiggitCamara. DiggitCamara was very suspicious of me on Day Two. Annoyingly suspicous :D . But those who were most suspicous of me have turned out to be Town (Drain Bead, Idle Thoughts). I think scum were less likely to confront me and willing to accept my claim because it doesn't concern them as much. Not so coincidentally, Santo Rugger was the one who was most supportive of not only my claim, but speaking out against those who questioned my choice of keeping Roles secret. Off the top of my head others who recognized that there were or could be reasons for my silence include MHaye and fluiddruid. Town tends to be paranoid; scum not so much. Furthermore, again without thorough back-research, I would state that Santo Rugger has stayed under the radar for most of the game, while DiggitCamara has been more willing to put himself under scrutiny by expressing his views.

- So I'm left wondering between DiggitCamara and Santo Rugger. Obviously, we aren't going to lynch DiggitCamara Today, but if Santo Rugger really is a Necromancer candidate, we need to discuss the possibility of lynching Santo Rugger Today.

- Sidenote: Santo Rugger and DiggitCamara could both be Wolves, employing a bold strategy to exploit the weaknesses of the Freemason game mechanic. I don't consider this a strong possibilty, but it is a possibility. I state this a reminder that should we discover that one of Santo Rugger or DiggitCamara is scum, such facts do not clear the other.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

- So I'm left wondering between DiggitCamara and Santo Rugger. Obviously, we aren't going to lynch DiggitCamara Today, but if Santo Rugger really is a Necromancer candidate, we need to discuss the possibility of lynching Santo Rugger Today.


While you present a decent argument, I just can't see how we're supposed to determine whether Zoggie or Santo is the Necro from... well... anything. I do know that I give Santo a much higher probability of being town than Zoggie, whom I'm afraid I'm absolutely convinced is scum (and have from the beginning! She was my first vote! ;) )

The only argument I can really see right now might be to no-lynch. Blaster and I could investigate one of the two of them, and whichever of us that survives the night could then report back. However, doing so opens up the possibility of a wolf win, and us sitting right back here tomorrow, only now stewing about Hazel's possibility of being the Necro.

There isn't a sure-fire town win yet. We're going to have to go out on a limb somewhere.

[dotchan]

That's exactly what I'm worried about. According to the ruleset: "Freemason: each Day may check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect."

So, dueling freemasons...your role PMs, please.

[Pleonast]

I've updated the vote count. Please check to make sure your vote is listed.

To answer a question about victory conditions: I check the Wolves' victory condition both immediately after the lynch and immediately after the Dawn message. I check the Undead's condition both immediately after the Dusk post and immediately after the Night kills.

Once all the Wolves and Undead are dead, the number of Witches versus the number of Cabalists determines if the Town or Cabal wins.

Edit: don't forget the Wolves and Undead merely need to equal the number of others to win.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Er, so if by some unfortunate set of circumstances both the Witches die, than the Cabal automatically wins, even though they're all dead? :dubious: Or is it considered a draw?

[Santo Rugger]

15. Freemason
15. Freemason - Pygmy Rugger

You are a Freemason. Each Day you may show your Secret Handsign to check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect.

Secret Power: If two or more Freemasons are aware of each other, you may track one Player every Night. If the player you track is involved in a Night kill, the kill will be thwarted, and the victim will be made aware of the attempted killer's identity. A forum will be set up at http://masontalk.proboards51.com/ for discussion. After you are assigned an account, you may utilize this forum at any time, but please restrict game discussion to the Night (Wednesdays at noon through Fridays at noon, Pacific time).


Please PM, email me, or respond in the game thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=436661 to confirm that you have received your Role and are ready to play. The game will start on Friday Sept 28 at noon, Pacific Time.

[Pleonast]

Er, so if by some unfortunate set of circumstances both the Witches die, than the Cabal automatically wins, even though they're all dead? :dubious: Or is it considered a draw?No, at least one Cabalist must be alive for the Cabal to win.

[Blaster Master]

Good point, but I think the move that Rugger made is possibly one that a Wolf (most likely the Omega-Wolf) would make, but I cannot see it being a move the Necromancer would make.

However, one point of interest against Rugger is namely that you did NOT reveal Hal's role, but a risky scum very well COULD have surmised that one of the most likely reasons you didn't reveal was because he was the last mason. So I'm left wondering, if he's scum, why would he does this? Obviously, if he's the Omega-Wolf, it's the least risk because no one except for another mason would be able to discern his claim, and he probably figured a fourth one was unlikely or would result in a situation like Monk-gate, except he would have the upper hand based on his timing.

An Alpha-Wolf would make less sense but, as Sach points out, could easily make sense if it's part of an elaborate scheme to get the other guy "confirmed" for counter-claiming. This is fairly unlikely, IMO.

For a Necromancer, would he be willing to guess that Hal was the last Free-mason? Knowing it's a risky move, would he essentially be the whole game on that? He wasn't under any heat to claim, and his method to victory is to simply live long enough to create enough Zombies, so why throw out that extra risk? I can only imagine he MIGHT have thought that to attempt to side-step a Witch investigation, thinking we'd think he's either telling the truth or a the Alpha-Wolf and thus it'd be a waste of our investigation.

[sachertorte]

Ooooh Loophole!

[Blaster Master]

15. Freemason
15. Freemason - Pygmy Rugger

You are a Freemason. Each Day you may show your Secret Handsign to check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect.

Secret Power: If two or more Freemasons are aware of each other, you may track one Player every Night. If the player you track is involved in a Night kill, the kill will be thwarted, and the victim will be made aware of the attempted killer's identity. A forum will be set up at http://masontalk.proboards51.com/ for discussion. After you are assigned an account, you may utilize this forum at any time, but please restrict game discussion to the Night (Wednesdays at noon through Fridays at noon, Pacific time).


Please PM, email me, or respond in the game thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=436661 to confirm that you have received your Role and are ready to play. The game will start on Friday Sept 28 at noon, Pacific Time.

Okay... you mention the board, so now I'm going to have to ask... how exactly did you utilize this? Since the masons cannot communicate at Night... Or was this only to be used if you had happened to encounter another mason?

[Santo Rugger]

Okay... you mention the board, so now I'm going to have to ask... how exactly did you utilize this? Since the masons cannot communicate at Night... Or was this only to be used if you had happened to encounter another mason?

Exactly. Had I encountered another Freemason, we would have been able to strategize at night, and BS during the day. Since I never found a counterpart, I was never granted access to the board.

[sachertorte]

Since there are supposedly FOUR Freemasons in the game, what would happen if there were two pairs of Freemasons.

Hmmmm.

Either way, I think Santo Rugger is not the Necromancer.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
However, one point of interest against Rugger is namely that you did NOT reveal Hal's role, but a risky scum very well COULD have surmised that one of the most likely reasons you didn't reveal was because he was the last mason. <snip>

sach kept all the roles secret as long as possible, not just Hal's.

[DiggitCamara]

That's exactly what I'm worried about. According to the ruleset: "Freemason: each Day may check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect."

So, dueling freemasons...your role PMs, please.
Your wish is my command


08. Freemason (Accountant)
08. Freemason (Accountant) - DiggitCamara

You are a Freemason. Each Day you may check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both of you will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect. Please PM or email me your target before the end of each Day. You also have a Secret Power, as the Accountant Freemason: you know that there are only four Freemasons in this Town, including yourself.

Please PM, email me, or respond in the game thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=436661 to confirm that you have received your Role and are ready to play. The game will start on Friday Sept 28 at noon, Pacific Time.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

15. Freemason
15. Freemason - Pygmy Rugger

You are a Freemason. Each Day you may show your Secret Handsign to check if one other Player is also a Freemason. If the target is a Freemason, both will be informed of the discovery. Otherwise, no effect.

Secret Power: If two or more Freemasons are aware of each other, you may track one Player every Night. If the player you track is involved in a Night kill, the kill will be thwarted, and the victim will be made aware of the attempted killer's identity. A forum will be set up at http://masontalk.proboards51.com/ for discussion. After you are assigned an account, you may utilize this forum at any time, but please restrict game discussion to the Night (Wednesdays at noon through Fridays at noon, Pacific time).


Please PM, email me, or respond in the game thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=436661 to confirm that you have received your Role and are ready to play. The game will start on Friday Sept 28 at noon, Pacific Time.

Sorry, Rugger. You're lying.
You've got the offsite discussion board correct, but the whole idea of a mason discussion board doesn't make sense in the slightest. We're looking at four masons, right? What if two different sets of masons had found each other, would Pleo have set up two separate boards for those masons? Doesn't make sense to me.
I do like the fact that someone registered a new account right before you posted this on the board as "masonzeta". I appreciate the extra bit of effort.

Now, obviously, Santo knows that the witches would be able to pick this claim apart. It strongly lends credence to the idea that he's a Wolf or Cabalist, the two other groups other than the witches who would know the location of Pleo's offsite board. Is it possible that a Necro might get access to this board? Did the nondiscussing roles (sache?) get the address for the discussion board, even ifthey couldn't post on it?

[sachertorte]

There isn't a sure-fire town win yet. We're going to have to go out on a limb somewhere.
I'm fine with risks. I was just curious as to why so many were simultaneously suspicious of Santo Rugger, yet not considering him for lynch Today.

[Santo Rugger]

Although I did post this:

FoS to everybody demanding sach to reveal more info.

If sach is telling the truth, revealing more than simply "town" is not necessary.

If he's lying, we'll find out soon enough.

Demanding him to reveal more is fishing for information that is much more useful to scum than it is to town.

I also posted this, about a page or two later:

Unvote ShadowFacts

I've been thinking about this one a lot, and although there may be certain circumstances, I think those who were asking for more info from sach could have been doing so with perfectly good intentions. I think the points that have been brought up concerning him revealing weather or not amr was a mason or not, in particular, have been valid.


And this, about a page or two after that:

Idle, I'm confused about one point. You talk about all the good you can do if you talk to certain roles, but how the heck are you supposed to know a dead person's role? Basically, a Coroner would have to confirm it for you, in order for your secret power to be worth a darn?

[sachertorte]

Did the nondiscussing roles (sache?) get the address for the discussion board, even ifthey couldn't post on it?
No.
My first reaction to Santo Rugger's PM was to believe him.

Santo Rugger is clearly not the Necromancer though. While I do think it is possible that the Vampire may have been given knowledge of who the Necromancer is, creating a game where people can talk at night, when the rules explicitly state otherwise is simply a recipe for ticked off players.

It's very strange. I ver quickly went from trusting Santo Rugger quite a bit to distrusting him.

[Santo Rugger]

Sorry, Rugger. You're lying.
You've got the offsite discussion board correct, but the whole idea of a mason discussion board doesn't make sense in the slightest. We're looking at four masons, right? What if two different sets of masons had found each other, would Pleo have set up two separate boards for those masons? Doesn't make sense to me.
I do like the fact that someone registered a new account right before you posted this on the board as "masonzeta". I appreciate the extra bit of effort.

Now, obviously, Santo knows that the witches would be able to pick this claim apart. It strongly lends credence to the idea that he's a Wolf or Cabalist, the two other groups other than the witches who would know the location of Pleo's offsite board. Is it possible that a Necro might get access to this board? Did the nondiscussing roles (sache?) get the address for the discussion board, even ifthey couldn't post on it?

It's in both of our team's best interest to talk about this Tomorrow.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
It's very strange. I ver quickly went from trusting Santo Rugger quite a bit to distrusting him.

I was doing such a good job, too! :(

;)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Your wish is my command

Diggit's mostly cleared in my book. He included the line "Please PM or email me your target before the end of each Day." He had a secret role which differentiated him from the other Masons. Santo's secret role would have had to be the secret role of all the masons, but Pleo seems to have set this game up with each player having an individual,specialized role. If nothing else, Diggit seems to have done his homework when creating his false claim.

I'm fine with risks. I was just curious as to why so many were simultaneously suspicious of Santo Rugger, yet not considering him for lynch Today.
I was considering him. I just am considering Zoggie as a more likely necro right now. Santo's false claim does point to him being a wolf, anyways.

[sachertorte]

It's in both of our team's best interest to talk about this Tomorrow.
That's just yucky.
On the plus side, Santo Rugger is claiming non-Town.
But just when I'm convinced that Santo Rugger can't be the Necromancer, now I think he is. Why would Santo Rugger want to discuss it Tomorrow? Why the delay?

One player benefits the most from delaying discussion to Tomorrow, The Necromancer, because there isn't a tomorrow.

[DiggitCamara]

I'm fine with risks. I was just curious as to why so many were simultaneously suspicious of Santo Rugger, yet not considering him for lynch Today.
You yourself made that point. It's lynch necromancer time, and it seems unlikely that Rugger is the necromancer. It seems likelier (to me at least) for the Omega Wolf to claim freemasonhood as long as there were no other masons left alive.

Exactly. Had I encountered another Freemason, we would have been able to strategize at night, and BS during the day. Since I never found a counterpart, I was never granted access to the board.

Funny. I do have access.

I only see posts by Pleonast, on two topics. One thread's last post is on Nov 2, 2007, 11:01am, it's named "Player List and Vote Counts" and has pretty much the information about Players and Vote Counts (Thread Started on Oct 1, 2007, 6:22am ).

The other one has the rules about the game. (four posts, last one Sept 19, 2007, 12:27pm )

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

It's in both of our team's best interest to talk about this Tomorrow.


You're admitting to being a wolf? Trying to call it a draw? Or that last Cabalist, and wanting to see if we can team up long enough for Blaster or I to snuff it?

if you're alive tomorrow, I think that pretty much tells us who the wolves are: You and Hazel. If you're dead, your furry buddy ShadowFacts will be joining you up on boot hill.

[Santo Rugger]

That's just yucky.
On the plus side, Santo Rugger is claiming non-Town.
But just when I'm convinced that Santo Rugger can't be the Necromancer, now I think he is. Why would Santo Rugger want to discuss it Tomorrow? Why the delay?

One player benefits the most from delaying discussion to Tomorrow, The Necromancer, because there isn't a tomorrow.

Because if we lynch me today, both our sides could lose tonight. I don't want to limit discussion today, but I do want to find the Necro.

[sachertorte]

Funny. I do have access.
Access to what? And why do you have access to it?

[Santo Rugger]

You're admitting to being a wolf? Trying to call it a draw? Or that last Cabalist, and wanting to see if we can team up long enough for Blaster or I to snuff it?

if you're alive tomorrow, I think that pretty much tells us who the wolves are: You and Hazel. If you're dead, your furry buddy ShadowFacts will be joining you up on boot hill.

No comment.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You yourself made that point. It's lynch necromancer time, and it seems unlikely that Rugger is the necromancer. It seems likelier (to me at least) for the Omega Wolf to claim freemasonhood as long as there were no other masons left alive.



Funny. I do have access.

I only see posts by Pleonast, on two topics. One thread's last post is on Nov 2, 2007, 11:01am, it's named "Player List and Vote Counts" and has pretty much the information about Players and Vote Counts (Thread Started on Oct 1, 2007, 6:22am ).

The other one has the rules about the game. (four posts, last one Sept 19, 2007, 12:27pm )

I saw your name on the offboard site, along with the names of a handful of other players, some of whom would normally have access to the board, and some who wouldn't. I figured Pleo added those accounts to throw the trail off of nosy parkers like me who checked the 'members' list. (I did it to send a snarky anonymous note to one of the Cabalists just before the game started)

Curious that you would get access but sache didn't, though... anyone else know of the location of the offsite board that wouldn't normally have reason to?

Access to what? And why do you have access to it?

There's an offsite board that has the discussion fora for the witches, wolves and cabalists.

[ShadowFacts]

That's just yucky.
On the plus side, Santo Rugger is claiming non-Town.
But just when I'm convinced that Santo Rugger can't be the Necromancer, now I think he is. Why would Santo Rugger want to discuss it Tomorrow? Why the delay?

One player benefits the most from delaying discussion to Tomorrow, The Necromancer, because there isn't a tomorrow.

Agreed. Hello WIFOM. :(

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

No comment.

Man,you scum drive me up the wall. And the smart money is that, like Cat did, you're just manipulating my overeager, gullible ass. :)

[sachertorte]

Okay, I need things spelled out slowly.

To me there are two issues with Santo Rugger's board:
1) Knowledge of the board's existance and location
2) Access to the board

- I did not have knowledge of the board's existence until Santo Rugger's recent post.
- I do not believe I have access to the board. When I go to the location, there is a page asking me to login or create an account. I have not tried either.

[sachertorte]

My question to DiggitCamara is why does he have access to a board that is only for Witches, Cabal, and Wolves.

[DiggitCamara]

Access to what? And why do you have access to it?
To the alleged mason board (http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=info).

Why do I have access? Dunno. I was in other games on that board, maybe that's why I have access? (I often let my browser store my access credentials to boards so I don't have to type name and password. In this case those fields appeared pre-filled).

The point is moot, though. The falsity of Rugger's claim is out in the open now.

(BTW, Santos, do you think your perpetual scummyhood is:

1. Vocation
or
2. Typecasting?

) :p

[ShadowFacts]

if you're alive tomorrow, I think that pretty much tells us who the wolves are: You and Hazel. If you're dead, your furry buddy ShadowFacts will be joining you up on boot hill.

Um, what?

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>
(BTW, Santos, do you think your perpetual scummyhood is:

1. Vocation
or
2. Typecasting?

) :p

A little from column A, a little from column B.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Okay, I need things spelled out slowly.

To me there are two issues with Santo Rugger's board:
1) Knowledge of the board's existance and location
2) Access to the board

- I did not have knowledge of the board's existence until Santo Rugger's recent post.
- I do not believe I have access to the board. When I go to the location, there is a page asking me to login or create an account. I have not tried either.

I'm sure if you create an account, you'll be able to see the basic information Diggit referred to.

Actually, now that I check on it, Pleo's sig has a link to the secret board, if you click on the 'Mirror', you'll be redirected to the main page of it.

I'm now leaning towards drinking the Wine in Front of Santo.

[sachertorte]

The point is moot, though. The falsity of Rugger's claim is out in the open now.
True. I just like to understand WTF is going on :D

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Um, what?

Well, either Zoggie or Santo is the necro. The other one's a wolf. And either you or Hazel is the second wolf.

Or am I forgetting someone else?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

A little from column A, a little from column B.

Holy god... have you ever not been scum? This is like, what, six games in a row?

[Freudian Slit]

So, I guess this is it for young Zoggie? Oh, well. I'm not too upset about it. I met a really cute boy this weekend, so I'm in a good mood, so don't feel too bad about it!

To die will be a gread adventure...

[Santo Rugger]

Holy god... have you ever not been scum? This is like, what, six games in a row?

Five.

[sachertorte]

I'm sure if you create an account, you'll be able to see the basic information Diggit referred to.

Actually, now that I check on it, Pleo's sig has a link to the secret board, if you click on the 'Mirror', you'll be redirected to the main page of it.

I'm now leaning towards drinking the Wine in Front of Santo.
Ah. So there isn't a different URL for Witches and Wolves and Cabal? I was thinking that the witches would be at witchtalk.proboards51.com and Wolves at wolftalk.blahblah....

That's why I was confused. I didn't understand why DiggitCamara would have access to Santo Rugger's fictional board.

I mean, why masontalk? masons don't talk in secret!

[Santo Rugger]

So, I guess this is it for young Zoggie? Oh, well. I'm not too upset about it. I met a really cute boy this weekend, so I'm in a good mood, so don't feel too bad about it!

To die will be a gread adventure...

And I met a really cute girl this weekend who's into group sex, so I don't feel too bad, either. :D

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

And I met a really cute girl this weekend who's into group sex, so I don't feel too bad, either. :D

That settles it. Typecasting.

[sachertorte]

Well, either Zoggie or Santo is the necro. The other one's a wolf. And either you or Hazel is the second wolf.

Or am I forgetting someone else?
Possible Necromancers:
HazelNutCoffee
Zoggie
Santo Rugger (known scum)

Possible Wolves:
DiggitCamara
ShadowFacts
HazelNutCoffee
Zoggie
Santo Rugger (known scum)

So, I think Diomedes is missing something.

[ShadowFacts]

Well, either Zoggie or Santo is the necro. The other one's a wolf. And either you or Hazel is the second wolf.

Or am I forgetting someone else?

I'm just reacting to you saying that Santo's death means I'm scum.

I mean, let's assume that Santo is the Necromancer for a moment. Let's further assume that Hazel is a Wolf. Now that Santo has claimed Wolf, Hazel knows that he is really the Necro, and could kill him toNight.

Doesn't say anything about me necessarily, as far as I can see.

[ShadowFacts]

You know what? I'm sick of getting jerked around by scum.

Unvote Zoggie

Vote Santo Rugger

[Santo Rugger]

You know what? I'm sick of getting jerked around by scum.

Unvote Zoggie

Vote Santo Rugger

That's a really, really bad idea.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You know what? I'm sick of getting jerked around by scum.

Unvote Zoggie

Vote Santo Rugger


<Wine in front of Shadow> Last time we switched because of scumbaiting, we got it wrong </wifos> :mad:


Oh, and as for lynching you, I suppose I was just assuming that would be with two deaths... thereby semi-confirming Hazel as Vig.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So, I think Diomedes is missing something.

Yeah, I miss lots of things. Pay no attention to the witch behind the curtain.

[Santo Rugger]

<Wine in front of Shadow> Last time we switched because of scumbaiting, we got it wrong </wifos> :mad:


Oh, and as for lynching you, I suppose I was just assuming that would be with two deaths... thereby semi-confirming Hazel as Vig.

How am I baiting anything??

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

How am I baiting anything??

I don't know yet.

[Santo Rugger]

For the umpteenth time:

Vote Top Dog

[Freudian Slit]

:confused: Who is Top Dog?

[ShadowFacts]

<Wine in front of Shadow> Last time we switched because of scumbaiting, we got it wrong </wifos> :mad:

Yes, we got it wrong because we believed the scum and did what he wanted!

Hey Santo Rugger, I think you're the Necromancer. If you're really a Wolf, who's your partner?

[Santo Rugger]

Yes, we got it wrong because we believed the scum and did what he wanted!

Hey Santo Rugger, I think you're the Necromancer. If you're really a Wolf, who's your partner?

You.

[Santo Rugger]

:confused: Who is Top Dog?

IIRC, it's a restaurant chain in California(?).

When zuma was outed as my scum buddy in Cult of Sekam, he voted and unvoted for just about every player, and a few he made up. It's sort of a running joke that scum vote for Top Dog when they've been outed, or can't figure out a way to weasel out of a lynch in the next Day or two.

[ShadowFacts]

You.

Nice! :)

[Blaster Master]

I saw your name on the offboard site, along with the names of a handful of other players, some of whom would normally have access to the board, and some who wouldn't. I figured Pleo added those accounts to throw the trail off of nosy parkers like me who checked the 'members' list. (I did it to send a snarky anonymous note to one of the Cabalists just before the game started)

Curious that you would get access but sache didn't, though... anyone else know of the location of the offsite board that wouldn't normally have reason to?



There's an offsite board that has the discussion fora for the witches, wolves and cabalists.

Actually, Dio, he DID post the link to the board at one point. I even have an account on there under my name which I used to check the rules prior to the roles being handed out because I am unable to look at Google Docs from work. I imagine most of the rest of those named accounts are there for similar reasons and not because of anyone trying to trick anyone else.

[Blaster Master]

NETA: I didn't see there was another page when I replied... :smack:

[Blaster Master]

For the umpteenth time:

Vote Top Dog

Okay THIS move doesn't make any sense at all...

If he's a wolf, and Zoggie is the other Wolf, obviously voting for her comdemns them to lose, but there's no avoiding it at this point. This would equate to him getting to choose who wins without being able to win himself, because he'd know Hazel is the Necromancer, and if he killed her, then the town wins tomorrow, and if he kills someone else, then the Necromancer has a reasonably high probability of winning at Sunup.

If he's a Wolf, and Zoggie is not a wolf, then if Hazel is a Wolf, he knows Zoggie is the Necromancer, but also knows that Hazel CANNOT back up her claim and kill him Tonight, and even if she can, she'll still be investigated and it's game over... Town wins. If Hazel is NOT a wolf either, then he can be fairly certain that Zoggie is the Necromancer (because her claim is not believable), but he also knows then that Hazel is probably the Vig and will take him out, leaving only two candidates, which is a certain Town victory as well.

If he's the Necromancer, the appropriate move would have been to simply try to convince everyone he's a wolf, but to just leave a Vote on Zoggie, and take his chances in a duel-off with Dotchan.

I don't really see the motivation behind any of those, but his behavior tends to make me believe that he knows information he doesn't want to share... namely, that one of the two between Hazel and Zoggie is a wolf, and the other is the Necromancer.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Either way, Tonight, the wolves WILL know who the Necromancer is. If Rugger isn't a Wolf, then he is the Necromancer. You can then preserve your chance to win by targetting him because this will make Hazel, Shadow, and Diggit all potential Wolves. Whereas, if you target anyone else, you confirm Hazel as the Vig, revealing who the last two of you are AND you give the Necromancer a good chance to take it at Sunup. IOW, the ONLY reasonable move, if Rugger isn't a Wolf, is for the Wolves to target him and they try to out-play the town.

If he is a Wolf, then you will also note that you HAVE to target Hazel, if she isn't a wolf, to preserve any chance of winning. After targetting Rugger tonight, she'll be well confirmed AND be giving the town essentially an extra lynch to track down the last Wolf amongst the unconfirmed. Thus, taking her would eliminate a confirmed and force us to go possible a couple more Days to find the last Wolf, in which point you can attempt to out-play us. If she IS a wolf, then you know that Zoggie is the Necromancer and you're forced to either kill Rugger (hoping to get Hazel confirmed), kill another townie (giving the game over to pure chance), or not kill, leaving four people unconfirmed and trying to out-play the town for a chance at winning (with four unconfirmed, and two mis-lynches, especially if you can find a way to cast some doubt back on Dotchan, wolves can still win).

Thus, here's MY plan... To discourage Wolves from targetting amongst the confirmed and not essentially forfeit the game, and because our investigation wouldn't be a whole lot of use, I think the Witches will likely choose to protect amongst the confirmed instead. Of course, this is still up to discussion amongst us Tonight. Take what I've said above however you will, hell... use it to try to out-play us.

Oh, and Wolves, also don't forget that only two of the Witches have used their secret powers. So we still have another trick up our sleeve. :D

[Santo Rugger]

Okay THIS move doesn't make any sense at all...
<snip>

Sure it does. Look at all the thought you put into it. ;)

[Blaster Master]

Sure it does. Look at all the thought you put into it. ;)

My point being, regardless of whether you're Wolf or Necro, your best interest is to avoid a lynch Today. Making some a vote draws attention TOWARD you which, regardless of your alignment, makes it harder for your side to win. Confusing the town is one thing, but sabotaging your team is something else entirely.

[Blaster Master]

Anyway, does Zoggie have any desire to convince us that her claim is legit? I really would like to hear something from her, other than essentially giving up.

[Santo Rugger]

My point being, regardless of whether you're Wolf or Necro, your best interest is to avoid a lynch Today. Making some a vote draws attention TOWARD you which, regardless of your alignment, makes it harder for your side to win. Confusing the town is one thing, but sabotaging your team is something else entirely.

Thanks for the tip.

But if I place a legitimate vote, your mad math skillz may be able to deduce what I'm trying to do with it. I'd rather not risk that.

[Blaster Master]

Thanks for the tip.

But if I place a legitimate vote, your mad math skillz may be able to deduce what I'm trying to do with it. I'd rather not risk that.


But you see... placing a vote on Zoggie provided no information, because it's where the town is going anyway. The whole jumping on the bandwagon thing only provides information IF we didn't know you were scum and we thought you were doing it to look good. But now, we can analyze your approach in the context of what Zoggie's role turns out to be.

Either way... it doesn't matter. I have no intention of changing my vote.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>

Either way... it doesn't matter. I have no intention of changing my vote.

Me either. :D

[ShadowFacts]

Either way... it doesn't matter. I have no intention of changing my vote.

Can I ask that we take a serious look at lynching Santo today? Why not explore some additional options, here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 99% sure Zoggie is scum and I'm not going to cry if she gets the noose. But things have dramatically changed today, and Santo is smelling pretty corpse-y to me right now, so I think it would be in our best interest to keep our options open.

So, what is the evidence that Zoggie is the Necromancer?

And, what is the evidence that Santo Rugger is the Necromancer?

(I'm going to go back and read for a bit to try to answer these questions for myself).

[DiggitCamara]

Ah. So there isn't a different URL for Witches and Wolves and Cabal? I was thinking that the witches would be at witchtalk.proboards51.com and Wolves at wolftalk.blahblah....

That's why I was confused. I didn't understand why DiggitCamara would have access to Santo Rugger's fictional board.

I mean, why masontalk? masons don't talk in secret!
Something in the back of my mind was desperately trying to remind me of where I had seen something like that before:

Idle Thoughts'
psycho game (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=asylumlane&action=display&thread=1188670429&page=1#1188670429) .


And that's game!

pygmyrugger, a Psychopath, has been found out and put to death.


Congratulations town. You have found and destroyed all the Psychopaths.

Hockey was the Therapist.
Diggit was the Doctor.
Nesta, Capy, and Dnooman were the Geniuses.
Mhaye was the Chia Bingo Manager
JSexton was the Crazy Townie
Hockey and Kat were the Lovers...and cowgirl was Cupid.



Blaster Master, pygmyrugger, Mal/NAF, and drain bead were the Psychopaths.


Thank you for playing in my game. :) It was fun to host it. I will be opening up Limbo for all now and feel free to talk about what you did at Night, tell stories about what you all thought and what you figured would work, and anything else you wish to say.


But now, the really fun part. Being able to see both sides of the picture from Scum and Mason point of view.

http://scummyscum.proboards57.com/index.cgi
http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi

Again, congrats Town on winning the game!

Next time you all gather here, NAF and Kat will be running the show. I'll be making them admins here in about two or three days and they'll tell you all the info on their game from there. :)


By now the masonic board has been overwritten, for some reason or the other, but in that game the Masons did have a Daytime board. And at the end of the game we were given access privileges.

[DiggitCamara]

Can I ask that we take a serious look at lynching Santo today? Why not explore some additional options, here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 99% sure Zoggie is scum and I'm not going to cry if she gets the noose. But things have dramatically changed today, and Santo is smelling pretty corpse-y to me right now, so I think it would be in our best interest to keep our options open.

So, what is the evidence that Zoggie is the Necromancer?

And, what is the evidence that Santo Rugger is the Necromancer?

(I'm going to go back and read for a bit to try to answer these questions for myself).
The only evidence for Santo Rugger's Wolviehood is his claim. At that point it was likely that one or the other side would investigate him at Night and, unless it was a Mason, it would come up as "town". (when I investigated him I got "Pygmy Rugger is not a Freemason.")

[ShadowFacts]

The only evidence for Santo Rugger's Wolviehood is his claim. At that point it was likely that one or the other side would investigate him at Night and, unless it was a Mason, it would come up as "town". (when I investigated him I got "Pygmy Rugger is not a Freemason.")

I'm sorry, I'm probably being thicker than an elephant dick sandwich here, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.

[DiggitCamara]

The only evidence for Santo Rugger's Wolviehood is his claim. At that point it was likely that one or the other side would investigate him at Night and, unless it was a Mason, it would come up as "town". (when I investigated him I got "Pygmy Rugger is not a Freemason.")
Clarifying: Rugger's claim of Masonhood, of course, is what points us to his being the Omega Wolf (not the necromancer)

[DiggitCamara]

I'm sorry, I'm probably being thicker than an elephant dick sandwich here, but I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Don't worry, I wasn't being very clear:

1. Rugger saw people being investigated, left and right
2. He saw (or thought he saw) the last Mason going down and took his chance to claim


If he was the Necromancer, he could expect to go down in flames if investigated after such a claim. On the other hand, as the Omega Wolf, he'd be in the clear (as long as all masons were dead).

[ShadowFacts]

Don't worry, I wasn't being very clear:

1. Rugger saw people being investigated, left and right
2. He saw (or thought he saw) the last Mason going down and took his chance to claim


If he was the Necromancer, he could expect to go down in flames if investigated after such a claim. On the other hand, as the Omega Wolf, he'd be in the clear (as long as all masons were dead).

Ah yes, I see. I think Diomedes mentioned something similar earlier, but it went past me at the time.

[ShadowFacts]

So, what is the evidence that Zoggie is the Necromancer?

And, what is the evidence that Santo Rugger is the Necromancer?


I'm going to try to answer my own questions here. I've just gone back and looked at this whole Day for some clues. Here's what I found:

As far as I can see, there is no evidence (other than Dio's vibes) that Zoggie is the Necromancer. Dio himself said this earlier this morning:
While you present a decent argument, I just can't see how we're supposed to determine whether Zoggie or Santo is the Necro from... well... anything. I do know that I give Santo a much higher probability of being town than Zoggie, whom I'm afraid I'm absolutely convinced is scum (and have from the beginning! She was my first vote! )

Aside from casting doubt on Dio's vibes about Santo :p , this tells me that the Zoggie train is pretty much a toss-up. We're pretty damn sure she's scum, and that's about it.

Since then, Santo has outed himself as scum definitely. And he did so by essentially claiming Wolf (without actually saying it). What's the motivation behind this? I have an idea:

I'm still keeping with my vote of Zoggie. If she's a wolf, it might behoove her to claim. I, andthe other town will back off, and although we'll lynch her tomorrow, it will still give the other wolf a chance at winning. If she false-claims wolf, the Wolves will know she's the Necro, and can kill her tonight. If she is a wolf, I'm strongly leaning towards Santos Rugger as the Necro.

This is essentially what happened, only in reverse.

Now, the downsides to the "Santo as Necro" theory are what Diggit just said about Santo hiding as the Omega Wolf. Also, if Santo is the Necro, he's taking a HUGE risk that the real wolves won't kill him toNight.

I'm not sure that really helped me much, but I felt I needed to spend some time on it. I am seeing better some of the logical arguments about why people feel Santo is not the Necro, so perhaps it wasn't a waste of time.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

How about this: the town was careering towards a Zoggie lynch before Pygmy put that role-claim up for the picking. If he -was- the necro, he would have stalled, not put anything forward: obviously he's hoping for some sort of result.

[dotchan]

If we lynch wrong toDay, we definitely lose...is there someone that could be investigated toNight that would make the choice for Necromancer ironclad toMorrow either by an Undead result or via elimination?

Pleonast has confirmed that my blessing, being a Day action, goes through whether I survive the Night or not, so I'm kind of starting to entertain the idea of a No Lynch.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Here's one issue with a no-lynch. We don't know what extra powers the Werewolves might have: They might still be able to recruit, they might have an extra kill (and could wipe out both Blaster and I, rendering the investigation meaningless), or something else entirely. The Necromancer may have some sort of ability to confuse an investigation.
If we no-lynch, I'm sure the scum will use tonight for their advantage. if we lynch, we stay a step ahead of them. And even if we do investigate, and one of the two of the witches is alive to report, what happens if our investigatee comes back Wolf? We're still stuck with a guessing game, only we're down to the point in the numbers game where the wolves could win again.

[dotchan]

So AGAIN, it comes down to lynching claimed scum vs. lynching unknown...

Argh, my head.

But this time, I think I will take the wine in front of Zoggie.

Vote Zoggie

[Santo Rugger]

So AGAIN, it comes down to lynching claimed scum vs. lynching unknown...

Argh, my head.

But this time, I think I will take the wine in front of Zoggie.

Vote Zoggie

*sigh*

Zoggie and I are the last two wolves.

[dotchan]

*sigh*

Zoggie and I are the last two wolves.

Says YOU. How can you prove that? Why would you sell out your teammate if it means that you also lose the game?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

*sigh*

Zoggie and I are the last two wolves.



That's interesting...

It'd leave Diggit and Hazel as possible Necro candidates. If it's true.

[DiggitCamara]

Says YOU. How can you prove that? Why would you sell out your teammate if it means that you also lose the game?
The only explanation I can provide for that is that he'd lose the other way anyway (unless the Necromancer dies toNight, of course).

And that by surviving toDay the wolves can use a trump card toNight that gives them a shot at winning.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

No Lynch? Test this claim out?

[dotchan]

That's interesting...

It'd leave Diggit and Hazel as possible Necro candidates. If it's true.

Uh...didn't you guys investigate Diggit last Night and he came up Town?

[DiggitCamara]

That's interesting...

It'd leave Diggit and Hazel as possible Necro candidates. If it's true.
And now that I think about it...

What proof have we of Hazel's Vigilante status?

Three Nights we've had 2 kills, which is consistent with the Wolves and the Vampires actions.

One Night we had 1 kill, which is consistent with the Vampire trying to convert someone and the Wolves targeting that someone (Idle Thoughts) (at the end of Day 4 Rugger claimed masonhood because he guessed there were no other masons alive left. But Idle Thoughts endangered that plan since he supposedly had a "Night talking" ability which would help him sniff out masons). HazelNut claims she was blocked... but by whom? And why would anyone block her?

So, again: What proof have we of Hazel's Vigilante status?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Uh...didn't you guys investigate Diggit last Night and he came up Town?

Oh, crap, you're right. Somehow, I was thinking we'd investigated the other mason candidate.
See, this is why you should pay no attention to the Witch behind the curtain.

[DiggitCamara]

Oh, crap, you're right. Somehow, I was thinking we'd investigated the other mason candidate.
See, this is why you should pay no attention to the Witch behind the curtain.
So. I'm neither a wolf nor a necromancer.

Do you finally believe my claim? Or do I have to die to prove it?

:D

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So. I'm neither a wolf nor a necromancer.

Do you finally believe my claim? Or do I have to die to prove it?

:D

Come on... I'm in a lynchin' kind of mood. Can't I believe you, and kill you? :p

[HazelNutCoffee]

So, again: What proof have we of Hazel's Vigilante status?
Er, none?

Where's the angel smiley when you need one?

I'm sure stuff will be clearer toMorrow. I really have nothing new to add what I've already said.

:: prances off through the daisies ::

[Freudian Slit]

*sigh*

Zoggie and I are the last two wolves.
Dude...

Well, might as well own up. I know my role claim was lame. I haven't been here to defend myself partly due to business and partly due to...well, being scum, and not knowing what else to say.

I'll probably still get lynched.

All things considering, I think I made it pretty far.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I buy it. Way too weird if it wasn't true, and the scum had united under the CatInASuit anti-town banner without some heavy sort of discussion out of our eyesight.

Unvote: Zoggie
Vote: HazelNutCoffee
Establish: Werewolf Kennels

[Santo Rugger]

The only explanation I can provide for that is that he'd lose the other way anyway (unless the Necromancer dies toNight, of course).

And that by surviving toDay the wolves can use a trump card toNight that gives them a shot at winning.

Basically.

[HazelNutCoffee]

. . . Seriously? You are believing what they say? Didn't anyone ever tell you that scum lie?

Look, I don't mind being lynched, since my role is not that crucial at this point. But leaving the Necromancer alive almost guarantees an Undead win toNight. Don't you think it's odd that Rugger and Zoggie have just suddenly "given up"?

[Santo Rugger]

. . . Seriously? You are believing what they say? Didn't anyone ever tell you that scum lie?

Look, I don't mind being lynched, since my role is not that crucial at this point. But leaving the Necromancer alive almost guarantees an Undead win toNight. Don't you think it's odd that Rugger and Zoggie have just suddenly "given up"?

It's not about giving up. It's about making sure the Necro dies tonight. That's the only way we'll have a chance.

[dotchan]

Or we have the Necromancer pegged and the Wolves, seeing Blaster's numbers, realizes that they can't win and want to derail the Necro's wagon.

So, claimed wolves, where's the role PMs that prove your alignment? :rolleyes:

[Santo Rugger]

15. Omega Wolf - Pygmy Rugger

You are the Omega Wolf. The other Wolves are Zoggie, fluiddruid, MHaye, and Fretful Porpentine. When investigated, you appear as a Freemason on the Town Side. You may not become the Alpha Wolf.

Please login at
http://masontalk.proboards51.com/
as
username: wolf7
password: Yw8sZ11V
You may change the password, but please do not change the username or display name. Once logged in, go to the board
http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=pack
password: **********
Please restrict game discussion to the Night (Wednesdays at noon through Fridays at noon, Pacific time).

Please PM, email me, or respond in the game thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=436661 to confirm that you have received your Role and are ready to play. The game will start on Friday Sept 28 at noon, Pacific Time. Since it is now Night, you may talk with your fellow Wolves, but not take any actions.

[Santo Rugger]

So, not only is that five times in a row as the "main" scum faction, but it's also two times simultaneously as a town investigatee, if you will. What are the odds?! :o

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So, not only is that five times in a row as the "main" scum faction, but it's also two times simultaneously as a town investigatee, if you will. What are the odds?! :o

Well, if it makes it any better, we never investigated you. And I never watched you on Serenity, either. :)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

. . . Seriously? You are believing what they say? Didn't anyone ever tell you that scum lie?

Look, I don't mind being lynched, since my role is not that crucial at this point. But leaving the Necromancer alive almost guarantees an Undead win toNight. Don't you think it's odd that Rugger and Zoggie have just suddenly "given up"?

Yes. Scum lie. If you can give me another option beyond you, Zoggie and the Ruggmeister as a necro, I'll consider unvoting you.

[Blaster Master]

Simple Solution... no lynch.

I'm strongly inclined to believe that Rugger is the Omega-Wolf, because the only way he'd have the format that down is if he either IS a Wolf or he's communicated outside the game (I know he wouldn't have done the latter), but I cannot imagine why he would forfeit his team member. Is it a simple "we lose, so might as well go easy?" or is it a "maybe we can give up one of our own to at least get the Undead to win?"

So here's how I see it, with a no lynch, unless there's two kills tonight AND a successful Zombification, we'll see tomorrow. At that point, we hear from the living which, who will provide a reading on either Hazel or Zoggie that will give us what we need to be 100% sure we're lynching the Necromancer.

Then, we can lynch in whatever order we need to... either way, it's clear based on their reactions that Zoggie is also scum.

Unvote Zoggie
Vote No Lynch

Hazel, if you ARE telling the truth, you may target Zoggie because it should be obvious to you that she's the Necromancer, that Rugger is the Alpha Wolf, and the Omega-Wolf is somewhere between Diggit and Shadow. If you're not... which I find hard to believe... you'll be found out by Dawn.

[sachertorte]

Based on our evidence, we know that the Necromancer is one of:
Santo Rugger
Zoggie
HazelNutCoffee

For either Santo Rugger or Zoggie to be the Necromancer, that would require that the Necromancer and a Wolf are colluding for an undead win. I reject this notion as illogical and just plain unsporting. The only way I can accept collusion is if it is mutually beneficial.

The town was pretty much set on Lynching Zoggie...

With that in mind lets consider the cases:
Santo Rugger: Necromancer
Zoggie: Wolf
In this case, Santo Rugger has little motivation to save Zoggie. Zoggie has good reason to follow Santo Rugger's gambit, but I don't see why a Necromancer Santo Rugger would intervene.

Santo Rugger: Wolf
Zoggie: Necromancer
What's the motivatation for Santo Rugger to save the Zoggie? little to none. The only thing that might make such an action work is the hope that Town lynches Town and the Necromancer fails to create a new zombie. Unlikely, but this high risk ploy does give Wolves an extra day of cover from lynching as Town has to lynch the Necromancer the next day. In order for Wolves to win, they need Town to lynch Town once. Period. Now or later, but now is easier to generate than later.

Put another way:
If Town lynches Undead, Town wins.
If Town lynches Wolf, Undead probably win but Town has a slight chance of winning.
If Town lynches Town, Undead probably win but Wolves have a slight chance of winning.
The only way the third case is even possible is if HazelNutCoffee is Town, but that seems unlikely as well. If Santo Rugger is a Wolf, he would not know which of HazelNutCoffee and Zoggie is the Necromancer.

-----
Town was leaning towards a Zoggie lynch when Santo Rugger posted his overplayed role PM.
Town is leaning towards a Zoggie lynch when Santo Rugger claimed wolf for himself and Zoggie.
Santo Rugger clearly does not want a Zoggie lynch. But why?
Guess: Zoggie is the Wolf who can recruit.

That's my long way of saying HazelNutCoffee has to be the Necromancer.

[sachertorte]

You know, I just realized that HockeyMonkey could have been recruited and we wouldn't know it yet. Although that doesn't help explain why Santo Rugger is so keen on saving Zoggie...

[DiggitCamara]

Simple Solution... no lynch.

I'm strongly inclined to believe that Rugger is the Omega-Wolf, because the only way he'd have the format that down is if he either IS a Wolf or he's communicated outside the game (I know he wouldn't have done the latter), but I cannot imagine why he would forfeit his team member. Is it a simple "we lose, so might as well go easy?" or is it a "maybe we can give up one of our own to at least get the Undead to win?"

So here's how I see it, with a no lynch, unless there's two kills tonight AND a successful Zombification, we'll see tomorrow. At that point, we hear from the living which, who will provide a reading on either Hazel or Zoggie that will give us what we need to be 100% sure we're lynching the Necromancer.

Then, we can lynch in whatever order we need to... either way, it's clear based on their reactions that Zoggie is also scum.

Unvote Zoggie
Vote No Lynch

Hazel, if you ARE telling the truth, you may target Zoggie because it should be obvious to you that she's the Necromancer, that Rugger is the Alpha Wolf, and the Omega-Wolf is somewhere between Diggit and Shadow. If you're not... which I find hard to believe... you'll be found out by Dawn.
In general I have to agree with you.

1. Are you sure that you'll get a read even if one of you dies?
2. Have you considered that a No Lynch gives the Wolves a chance to recruit?
3. If I'm counting correctly, right now we have 5 undead, 11 living. During the Night (unless we're lucky and the Vicar blocks) there will be 6 undead. Game over, man, game over.

So, basically, point 3 makes No Lynch a suicidal option. Or did I count wrong somewhere?

[sachertorte]

There are 4 Zombies, 1 Undead versus 8 Living.
A No Lynch leads to
5 Zombies, 1 Undead, 7 Living.

[ShadowFacts]

Simple Solution... no lynch.

So, here's my rundown of what could happen with a No Lynch:

1. No lynch, Wolves No Kill, Necro Zombifies = 8-6 with Witch investigation
2. No lynch, Wolves No Kill, Vicar blesses successfully = 8-5 with Witch investigation
3. No lynch, Wolves kill Necro = 6 Town/Cabal vs. 2 wolves, with many knowns
4. No lynch, Wolves kill Town, Necro Zombifies = 7-6 with Witch investigation
5. No lynch, Wolves kill Town, Vicar blesses successfully = 7-5 with Witch investigation

On preview, sach has brought up the recruit possibility, which I have not addressed above.

[Blaster Master]

But Sach, also keep in mind that Rugger was pushing his masonhood up until it was pressured that we should consider a lynch on him. By essentially confessing, if he's not a Wolf, he would have tipped off the Wolves that he is the Necromancer.

However, I'm inclined to believe his claim of Wolf (though not necessarily Omega Wolf) simply because the format of the PM does not match anything anyone else posted, but it DOES match mine closely which is what I would expect from a Wolf or Cabal who had access to the secret boards... but wouldn't expect from an undead who would have no need for the secret board.

While I would think it somewhat unsporting to favor the Undead, as you point out, by us lynching town, the Wolves maintain a slim possibility of winning.

Now, a Wolf Zoggie could realize this and think Rugger is trying to get the actual Necro killed, hope for a special power (like, as you guess, might be a recruit) and they'd still be in the running. Or, a Zombie Zoggie could realize that Rugger is trying his darndest to either keep the town from winning (a la Cat) or maintain some however slim chance of winning by trying to confuse the town.

...I'll crunch some scenarios later; however, FTR, I think the Wolves ALSO having a recruit is a low probability, especially considering that they started with five members.

[DiggitCamara]

There are 4 Zombies, 1 Undead versus 8 Living.
A No Lynch leads to
5 Zombies, 1 Undead, 7 Living.





02. Diomedes
04. Hockey Monkey
05. CatInASuit
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
15. Pygmy Rugger = Santos Rugger
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
20. sachertorte
22. ShadowFacts


12. nesta - Killed Night Three - Cabal - Cabalist - Zombie
13. amrussell - Killed Night One - Town - Freemason - Zombie
14. fluiddruid - Lynched Day Three - Wolf - Zombie
16. Fretful Porpentine - Killed Night One - Wolf - Werewolf - Zombie


Victory Condition: if, at any time during the Night (before or after any Night kills), there are as least as many Undead, including Zombies, as all other Sides combined.


um.... what the hell are we worrying about, then?

There are 5 undead vs. 10 living right now. Worst case scenario (Lynch + 2 Night Kills + one Zombie) we'd have 6 undead vs. 7 living... So we actually don't have a lynch Necromancer or lose scenario. And with the Night investigation left the Undead are pretty much toast, aren't they?

[sachertorte]

I thought through the No Lynch Option and have concluded that No Lynch is the best Town strategy at this point. If wolves have been given an extra nightkill, then this will win it for the Wolves, but I don't think wolves would have recruitment AND an extra night kill as that would have been crazy unbalanced.

Earlier today we rightfully rejected No Lynch as an option. However, that was before we had two confirmed scum. Now that we know that Santo Rugger and Zoggie are scum, the numbers favor a No Lynch.

unvote Zoggie
vote No Lynch

I'm kind of pissed about this though because if I'm counting correctly, I'm the recruit target for Tonight. :(

[sachertorte]

And with the Night investigation left the Undead are pretty much toast, aren't they?
becuase CatInASuit is no longer in the game?

[sachertorte]

um.... what the hell are we worrying about, then?
I meant to quote this part.

CatInASuit is erroneously listed in the players list.

[sachertorte]

Oh, and DiggitCamara, you are counting the Necromancer as "living." He's not, he counts as Undead.

[DiggitCamara]

I meant to quote this part.

CatInASuit is erroneously listed in the players list.
Right you are. And, btw:

CatInASuit is erroneously listed in the players list.

So, by no-Lynching we give us one more chance to investigate and another Day to live and lynch the remaining Undead.

Unvote Zoggie
Vote NoLynch

[ShadowFacts]

I meant to quote this part.

CatInASuit is erroneously listed in the players list.

As is Hockey Monkey. That list is not up to date.

[DiggitCamara]

Oh, and DiggitCamara, you are counting the Necromancer as "living." He's not, he counts as Undead.
Actually I wasn't (hence the 5 undead). But I was using CatinaSuit as one of the living, which skewed my numbers.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I thought through the No Lynch Option and have concluded that No Lynch is the best Town strategy at this point. If wolves have been given an extra nightkill, then this will win it for the Wolves, but I don't think wolves would have recruitment AND an extra night kill as that would have been crazy unbalanced.

Earlier today we rightfully rejected No Lynch as an option. However, that was before we had two confirmed scum. Now that we know that Santo Rugger and Zoggie are scum, the numbers favor a No Lynch.

unvote Zoggie
vote No Lynch

I'm kind of pissed about this though because if I'm counting correctly, I'm the recruit target for Tonight. :(

I'm just not so sure about that... I mean, I'm in favor of lynching the necro... whom I'm at this point about 99% certain that Hazel has been identified as. But even if we don't lynch Hazel, why would we no-lynch, instead of lynching one of the Wolves?

As for the Wolves having an extra nightkill and recruitment... I don't think that would be crazy unbalanced. The town has a buttload of other mechanisms working in its favor.

[DiggitCamara]

As is Hockey Monkey. That list is not up to date.
Wait, wait. Let's correct that list first



02. Diomedes
06. HazelNutCoffee
08. DiggitCamara
10. Blaster Master
15. Pygmy Rugger = Santos Rugger
17. MadTheSwine = dotchan
18. Zoggie
20. sachertorte
22. ShadowFacts


12. nesta - Killed Night Three - Cabal - Cabalist - Zombie
13. amrussell - Killed Night One - Town - Freemason - Zombie
14. fluiddruid - Lynched Day Three - Wolf - Zombie
16. Fretful Porpentine - Killed Night One - Wolf - Werewolf - Zombie

And in this corrected scenarios we have 5 undead (zombies + necromancer) versus 8 living(9 active players - 1 necromancer).

Our corrected worst case scenario, (Lynch + 2 Dead + 1 new zombie) gives us
5 living versus 6 undead

Even with only one Night death (wolves killing) we'd have 7 living versus 6 undead. So that reinforces the notion of a No-Lynch (in my mind at least).

[DiggitCamara]

I'm just not so sure about that... I mean, I'm in favor of lynching the necro... whom I'm at this point about 99% certain that Hazel has been identified as. But even if we don't lynch Hazel, why would we no-lynch, instead of lynching one of the Wolves?

As for the Wolves having an extra nightkill and recruitment... I don't think that would be crazy unbalanced. The town has a buttload of other mechanisms working in its favor.
Well, because even if there are only 2 Deaths (lynch + Nightly kill by the wolves) and tomorrow's Dawn, we'd still end up with a 6 living and 6 zombies scenario during the Night. And that would give the Undead the game.

[ShadowFacts]

Even with only one Night death (wolves killing) we'd have 7 living versus 6 undead. So that reinforces the notion of a No-Lynch (in my mind at least).

See my post 1928 :)

[DiggitCamara]

See my post 1928 :)
It was such a great point I couldn't resist to make it again!


(Actually, I managed to confuse myself with Pleonast's "official count" and just got to the point where you already were) :smack:

[ShadowFacts]

I'm just not so sure about that... I mean, I'm in favor of lynching the necro... whom I'm at this point about 99% certain that Hazel has been identified as. But even if we don't lynch Hazel, why would we no-lynch, instead of lynching one of the Wolves?

Because lynching a Wolf reduces the number of non-Undead, making it easier for the Necro to win. We're at 8-5 now. We lynch a Wolf and we're at 7-5. Necro creates a Zombie for 7-6. And if the Wolves are feeling grumpy about us lynching one of them, they can kill one of us and make it 6-6.

In other words, if we don't lynch the Necro, we shouldn't lynch anyone because it puts the game in the hands of the Wolves.

Unvote Santo Rugger
Vote No Lynch

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Because lynching a Wolf reduces the number of non-Undead, making it easier for the Necro to win. We're at 8-5 now. We lynch a Wolf and we're at 7-5. Necro creates a Zombie for 7-6. And if the Wolves are feeling grumpy about us lynching one of them, they can kill one of us and make it 6-6.

In other words, if we don't lynch the Necro, we shouldn't lynch anyone because it puts the game in the hands of the Wolves.

Unvote Santo Rugger
Vote No Lynch


I see. I was thrown off by the unupdated list. As is, I still think we should cap Hazel... but I'm impatient. I'll bow to the collected wisdom of the rest of the town.

Unvote HazelNutCoffee
Vote No Lynch

[sachertorte]

One teeny tiny complicating factor: While we know the number of Undead and Wolves remaining per Hockey Monkey, our belief that all the Cabalists are dead is an assumption. If there is one additional Cabalist, we need to lynch today.

Hockey Monkey had a mechanism to check the number of Undead and Wolves. Does anyone have a secret power that tells the number of Cabalists? Because if there is one, we MUST Lynch scum today (necromancer specifically) and we must lynch Cabal before finishing off the Wolves.

[ShadowFacts]

One teeny tiny complicating factor: While we know the number of Undead and Wolves remaining per Hockey Monkey, our belief that all the Cabalists are dead is an assumption. If there is one additional Cabalist, we need to lynch today.

Hockey Monkey had a mechanism to check the number of Undead and Wolves. Does anyone have a secret power that tells the number of Cabalists? Because if there is one, we MUST Lynch scum today (necromancer specifically) and we must lynch Cabal before finishing off the Wolves.

I'm not seeing the problem. Here is the Cabalist win condition:

"Victory Condition: if, when all Undead and Wolves are dead, at least one Cabalist survives and there are one or fewer Witches alive."

They still count against the Undead just as Town and Wolves do. What am I missing?

[dotchan]

- Confirmed Claims -
* Diomedes - Witch - Confirmed by knowledge that Rysto was a Witch (revealed as such by Sachertorte)
* Blaster Master - Witch - Confirmed by Diomedes
* sachertorte - Corner - Confirmed by accurate role reveals of the dead
* dotchan - Vicar - Confirmed by a successful blessing of Idle Thoughts (revealed as under the Vampire's curse by Sachertorte)

- Unconfirmed Claims -
* Diggitcamara - Freemason (investigated as Town)
* HazelNutCoffee - Vigilante
* Santos Rugger - Omega Wolf
* Zoggie - Wolf

- No Claims -
* ShadowFacts (investigated as Town)

Remaining Wolves: 2 (as per Hockey Monkey's investigation, minus the dead wolves)
Remaining Undead: 1 (the Necromancer)
Remaining Cabal: Very likely 0 (two of the five unconfirmed claims have investigated as Town)
Remaining Freemasons: ? (Diggit claims the game started with 4)

I'm inclined to believe Diggitcamara, but until the Omega Wolf dies he isn't confirmed. This leaves either Santos Rugger, Zoggie, or HazelNutCoffee as the Necromancer.

Even if we No Lynch toDay, we'd still have to find the Necromancer toMorrow or it's game over, and I doubt the Wolves are going to help on this one.

Here's hoping to heck we get very, very lucky.

unvote Zoggie, vote No Lynch

[Freudian Slit]

Also jumping on the band wagon.

No Lynch

Less is more when it comes to corpses.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I'm not seeing the problem. Here is the Cabalist win condition:

"Victory Condition: if, when all Undead and Wolves are dead, at least one Cabalist survives and there are one or fewer Witches alive."

They still count against the Undead just as Town and Wolves do. What am I missing?

Yeah, the Cabal is pretty much sunk. The only players that could be the Cabal are the two claimed Wolves, dotchan, Hazel and sachertorte. I just don't see how you could fit a Cabalist, two wolves and a Necro in there, with the information sache has provided and the fact that Idle didn't rise as a Vampire.

[sachertorte]

I agree that an additional Cabalist is unlikely, but it is possible since either DiggitCamara or ShadowFacts could be the Omega Wolf. I was just asking since there was a game mechanic to reveal the number of Wolves and the Number of Vampires.
If a pro-town player knew that there were 4 Cabalists, then I would expect them to have said something by now.
Proceed with the not lynching.

[Blaster Master]

One teeny tiny complicating factor: While we know the number of Undead and Wolves remaining per Hockey Monkey, our belief that all the Cabalists are dead is an assumption. If there is one additional Cabalist, we need to lynch today.

Hockey Monkey had a mechanism to check the number of Undead and Wolves. Does anyone have a secret power that tells the number of Cabalists? Because if there is one, we MUST Lynch scum today (necromancer specifically) and we must lynch Cabal before finishing off the Wolves.

I'm not caught up yet... so I'm unsure if this has already been answered, but the Witches have very good reason to believe there are zero Cabalists left. Further, even if they DO exist, they CAN'T block Witches, and with the risk of a Wolf or Undead Victory... they're better off blocking one of the confirmed scum anyway.

[Blaster Master]

I'm not caught up yet... so I'm unsure if this has already been answered, but the Witches have very good reason to believe there are zero Cabalists left. Further, even if they DO exist, they CAN'T block Witches, and with the risk of a Wolf or Undead Victory... they're better off blocking one of the confirmed scum anyway.

NETA: This is not based on information intrinsic to our role, or use of a special power... it is based on lots of meta-game reasoning, with which I would prefer NOT to polute the game. Even with regular reasoning (like 3 cabal vs. 3 witches, and the number of confirmed), it is extremely unlikely.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Even if we No Lynch toDay, we'd still have to find the Necromancer toMorrow or it's game over, and I doubt the Wolves are going to help on this one.

Here's hoping to heck we get very, very lucky.



Well, if it's not HazelNut... then it's either one of the claimed Wolves, you or sache. I'm really wondering why we're going through all this rigamarole instead of just stringing Hazel up now.

[ShadowFacts]

Well, if it's not HazelNut... then it's either one of the claimed Wolves, you or sache. I'm really wondering why we're going through all this rigamarole instead of just stringing Hazel up now.

If you want to lynch Hazel, then vote for her and lay out your case for why we should do it. I will happily listen. Right now, based on all the analyses today, it looks to me like No Lynch is our best option. But I'm willing to change my mind if you can convince me I'm wrong. Plenty of time until the deadline...

[Blaster Master]

Here's the deal... based on what Sach said, the recruit is not a particularly large issue, because we know the Witch Doctor is dead, and the game mechanic would indicate that we'd know who that was the moment they came up.

Tomorrow, we will know who the Necromancer is for sure, because he (or I guess I can say she, since the only candidates are female) must lie between Zoggie and Hazel.

At this point, the wolves are kind of stuck in a hard possition... their worst enemy at this point is Sach, because he's the one who will be telling us whether or not Rugger is the Alpha-Wolf... so they should target him... but if they target him, they leave the two Witches up to get another investigation out and confirm the last unknown so we can tell whether or not we need to consider lynching Diggit and Shadow or not.

If they decide to use a recruit... they'll HAVE to target someone other than the three of us, Sach and witches (for reasons I'll let them figure out :D), and it won't help them at all, because we'll then have everyone confirmed... all it would do is delay the end of the game by a Day, which point Pleo could just end it mercifully.

IOW, their only hope is to target you, Sach, not try to recruit you, because that's the only way they'll be able to leave Shadow and Diggit on the table.

Even if they have an extra Night-kill... they still won't be able to entirely stop BOTH the witches AND Sach.

Further, I'm inclined to think they don't have either power, because they began with five members thus recruiting seems a little broken. The other power, an extra Night kill, is even more powerful. I think Rugger's move is an indication of a move of desperation to confuse the town, not an indication of an attempt to pull of some sort of hidden power.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

If you want to lynch Hazel, then vote for her and lay out your case for why we should do it. I will happily listen. Right now, based on all the analyses today, it looks to me like No Lynch is our best option. But I'm willing to change my mind if you can convince me I'm wrong. Plenty of time until the deadline...

No Lynch is our best option if we're not convinced she's the Necro. If you believe the Wolf claims, which I happen to, then Hazel, sachertorte and dotchan are the only non-Town investigated options. sachertorte is fully cleared in my eyes as the Coroner. There is the slight possibility that you're the reason why Idle Thoughts didn't rise as the Vampire, which would open up dotchan as another possible Necro. If that's not the case, then Hazel's my Necro by the process of elimination.

UnUnUnvote NoLynch
ReDoublePlusVote HazelNutCoffee

Sorry, Pleo, for making you vote lists this confused.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Tomorrow, we will know who the Necromancer is for sure, because he (or I guess I can say she, since the only candidates are female) must lie between Zoggie and Hazel.

At this point, the wolves are kind of stuck in a hard possition... their worst enemy at this point is Sach, because he's the one who will be telling us whether or not Rugger is the Alpha-Wolf... so they should target him... but if they target him, they leave the two Witches up to get another investigation out and confirm the last unknown so we can tell whether or not we need to consider lynching Diggit and Shadow or not.

If they decide to use a recruit... they'll HAVE to target someone other than the three of us, Sach and witches (for reasons I'll let them figure out :D), and it won't help them at all, because we'll then have everyone confirmed... all it would do is delay the end of the game by a Day, which point Pleo could just end it mercifully.

IOW, their only hope is to target you, Sach, not try to recruit you, because that's the only way they'll be able to leave Shadow and Diggit on the table.

Even if they have an extra Night-kill... they still won't be able to entirely stop BOTH the witches AND Sach.

My only question about all of this is that if Zoggie wasn't actually a Wolf, why would Pygmy state that she's one, and why would she own up to it?

[sachertorte]

Just for clarification:
The reason I'm worried about Cabal and Recruitment is because if both are in the game then we need to Lynch Today because that leaves us with 5 lynches needed for Town to Win. If this is the case, we don't have the luxury to No Lynch Today. I'm not worried that we won't be able to identify the recruit or even identify the Cabalist. Identity isn't the issue, it's sheer numbers that bother me.

[Blaster Master]

My only question about all of this is that if Zoggie wasn't actually a Wolf, why would Pygmy state that she's one, and why would she own up to it?

Here's a worst case scenario (there are lesser ones that are still very bad):

Rugger is a Wolf, but is NOT the Omega-Wolf. This is possible because, the only part that convinces me is the format of the PM... he could easily copy and past stuff to make a convincing looking Omega-Wolf PM. Zoggie is the the Necromancer. Thus, by "pretending" that Zoggie is the other Wolf, we kill Hazel instead, who is actually what she claims. We then go into the Night, where the Wolves can either Take out the Necromancer, knowing the last wolf lies in someone who is "probably town", they can take out Sach, hoping to disguise the identity of Hazel as NOT being the Necromancer. One option would give the Wolves a slim, but possible chance to win, the other would put the entire game in the crap-shoot that is the Necromancer Zombie-maker.

Even if Hazel is a wolf, obviously Zoggie would play along, because it means that she lives and gets a good chance (about 40% IIRC) of winning the game tonight.

Meanwhile, if we wait 'til tomorrow, we will know the Necromancer for sure, because I'm afraid I can't trust the Wolves to play for their own extremely slight chance of winning over a pretty reasonable chance of the town losing (as would killing someone other than the Necromancer tonight would net).

If we lynch today, especially based on what is very likely a gambit of circular logic presented us by confirmed scum, we really have no degree of certainty which of the two between Zoggie and Hazel is the casting director for the Thriller video.

IOW, if we lynch Today, we have around a 20-25% chance of the Undead winning in the morning, ~0% chance of a wolf win. If we don't lynch, we have ~0% chance of a Undead win, and a slim chance [<< 20%] of a Wolf victory.

The ONLY thing that would put a damper in this plan is if BOTH Witches die, but then we're just stuck with either the Undead winning tonight (as we would be before) or a Lynch-Or-Lose situation tomorrow.

But all we have to do to prevent that is ask those who haven't used secret powers to intervene. That is, if Hazel is telling the truth... kill Zoggie, because she MUST be the Necromancer. If Shadow has any sort of power to keep the Witches alive (like a Body Guard type move, or block or something) then either protect one of us Witches, or block Rugger or Zoggie (Zoggie works too because if she's a wolf, it's the same effect as blocking Rugger, but if she's the Necromancer, you definitely block the Zombification).

Since at least one between Shadow and Hazel must be pro-town, without knowledge of Shadow's role, but knowing what roles he may have (ie, Magician, Warlock, or Scotsman), I suspect he probably has a secret power along one of those lines. I can't imagine he's the seer just because I think that'd be too powerful (combined with the witches) and he hasn't claimed and provided any useful information yet.

IOW, we know that either the Necromancer will be dead (because Hazel is telling the truth), at least one Witch will live meaning we know who the Necromancer is and can lynch (if my reasonable assumption about Shadow is truthful... if not, it will at least make the Wolves think twice), or possibly both (if Diggit is the Omega-Wolf).

Further, between NOT knowing what Shadow or his special powers are, and knowing that the Witches still have another trick up our sleeves, it would be VERY risky for them to use an extra kill, if they have it, on the Witches.

Without crunching numbers, since people seem to loathe when I post math, I'll simply say the Wolves would pretty much have to have an extra power AND play perfectly to even have a chance... but they almost certainly cannot because of the uncertainty of at least Shadow (that is, they know whether or not Hazel is the Necromancer, Wolf, or the Vig).

[HazelNutCoffee]

That hangman's noose is scratchy. :: tugs at rope around neck ::

What with all this double-claiming, I feel like I should be making a scum claim as well, just to form a trifecta. :rolleyes: I hesitate to post, because I don't know what more to say at this point. My death doesn't make much of a difference either way, as has already been pointed out; whether I am Town, Undead, or Wolf, the Town still has a pretty strong chance of winning. So I shall go gently into that good night, if the Town so desires.

[Blaster Master]

Just for clarification:
The reason I'm worried about Cabal and Recruitment is because if both are in the game then we need to Lynch Today because that leaves us with 5 lynches needed for Town to Win. If this is the case, we don't have the luxury to No Lynch Today. I'm not worried that we won't be able to identify the recruit or even identify the Cabalist. Identity isn't the issue, it's sheer numbers that bother me.

I can assure you that there are no Cabalists left.

As for a recruit, you told us the mechanism yourself... he would be easily identified because he'd die and come back.

Besides, if we can have only one mis-lynch AND get some pretty good help from the scum and get stuck in a place where we CAN'T win... then the game was broken from the get-go.

Further, after Tonight's investigation, we will have no unconfirmed (except for Diggit and Shadow as possible Omega), which means we have at least 2 (if not 3 from a recruit) definitely correct lynches, over which we will easily be able to reevaluate the situation with Shadow and Diggit if necessary.

[sachertorte]

I can assure you that there are no Cabalists left.
Works for me.

[ShadowFacts]

Even if Hazel is a wolf, obviously Zoggie would play along, because it means that she lives and gets a good chance (about 40% IIRC) of winning the game tonight.

Meanwhile, if we wait 'til tomorrow, we will know the Necromancer for sure, because I'm afraid I can't trust the Wolves to play for their own extremely slight chance of winning over a pretty reasonable chance of the town losing (as would killing someone other than the Necromancer tonight would net).

If we lynch today, especially based on what is very likely a gambit of circular logic presented us by confirmed scum, we really have no degree of certainty which of the two between Zoggie and Hazel is the casting director for the Thriller video.

I've been trying to compose a post like this for a while, but it was not coming out anywhere near as clear as this. Blaster's post is what I wanted to say :)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Wow. Okay. I hadn't even thought about the fact that it's not unreasonable at all for Rugger to have made up the Omega claim. That being the case, it's very possible our Omega is still in hiding, and Zoggie's still the Necro. Obviously, Zoggie would go along with the play Rugger made for her (if she wasn't Town), but it does alarm me that we'll have to go Snipe hunting once we've offed the Necro and Rugger. That being said, I now see how sache might be more important than the witches after tomorrow morning's investigation.

Just to be sure on this: sache, the Werewolf conversion acts the same as the Vampire conversion, right?

[HazelNutCoffee]

Whoa. How did this get to page 2?

I forgot to put in my vote:

vote No Lynch

[ShadowFacts]

Just to be sure on this: sache, the Werewolf conversion acts the same as the Vampire conversion, right?

I'm not sach, but this is what he said on the subject when he revealed Idle's vampirization:

What I presented as secret knowledge is in reality extra knowledge stemming from a secret power. I can identify a Vampire's curse.
<snip>
I don't actually know whether the wolves can recruit or not, I just thought it might be a possibility so I presented the recruit information as a broad Vamp/Wolf thing. However, with Idle Thoughts (Witchdoctor) dead, the Town will know a wolf recruitment (or any other curse-thing) when it happens. Yay!

bolding mine

[DiggitCamara]

I'm not sach, but this is what he said on the subject when he revealed Idle's vampirization:



bolding mine
Here's hoping that they don't have a stealth recruitment, then.

[ShadowFacts]

Does anyone think, given where we're at right now, we could shorten the Days and Nights a little? Seems like we could probably get away with speeding things up a bit...

Of course, that would take us off the Wednesday/Friday thing, which could get confusing.

Anyway, just a thought since things seem to be dragging a touch.

[Freudian Slit]

Does anyone think, given where we're at right now, we could shorten the Days and Nights a little? Seems like we could probably get away with speeding things up a bit...

Of course, that would take us off the Wednesday/Friday thing, which could get confusing.

Anyway, just a thought since things seem to be dragging a touch.
I was thinking that, especially with regard to the days.

Were they always this long in previous games?

Might be something to think about for next game, if not now.

[Pleonast]

Yeah, since we're near the end and Thanksgiving is coming, let's speed things up. How's this for a schedule:

Day Six: ends Wed Nov 7
Night Six: ends Fri Nov 9
Day Seven: ends Mon Nov 12
Night Seven: ends Tue Nov 13
Day Eight: ends Thu Nov 15
Night Eight: ends Fri Nov 16
Day Nine: ends Mon Nov 19

I don't think it'll last that long, but if it goes longer, it'll be delayed by Thanksgiving (I'll be out of contact from Nov 20-25).

[Freudian Slit]

I can deal with that.

Time is still the same, I trust? Noon pacific, 3 PM eastern.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I can deal with that.

Time is still the same, I trust? Noon pacific, 3 PM eastern.

Yeah, the nights are going to get pretty automatic, and the days seem to be getting that way, too. I almost have a feeling this game is geting close to going on autopilot, and only Pleo knows which direction it's headed. :)

[Pleonast]

And Day Six ends with a clear decision to not string anyone up. The hopes of many is that the forces of Good can forestall the those of Evil just long enough to determine a clear course for Tomorrow. Assuming that Tomorrow comes...

Investigation reveals CatInASuit was aligned with the Undead and MHaye was a Werewolf.

Enjoy the Night!

[Freudian Slit]

So is there going to be a new drink in honor of no one dying?

[Santo Rugger]

So is there going to be a new drink in honor of no one dying?

Let's call it the, "I can't believe Santo was the first to vote No Lynch, and somehow got the town to convince itself to do the same." Somehow, I don't think the name will stick.

[ShadowFacts]

Let's call it the, "I can't believe Santo was the first to vote No Lynch, and somehow got the town to convince itself to do the same." Somehow, I don't think the name will stick.


Let's call it: It's Raining Scum.

[MHaye]

It's Raining Scum.*Gets out of rain.*

Honestly, have you any idea how difficult it is to get scum out of fur? Even ghostly fur.

Stinks the den out for weeks, it does.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Watch out MHaye: That might be rotting ghostly flesh in a little bit, if your packmates don't eat the Necro tonight.

Drink of the night: The Revelation. Chilled sparkling water, lightly tainted with the blood of innocents.

Oh, and until we figure out who's who, Zoggie and HazelNutCoffee aren't allowed on my bar floor tonight. I have a pleasant cage for them to dance semi-clothed in, instead.

[ShadowFacts]

Oh, and until we figure out who's who, Zoggie and HazelNutCoffee aren't allowed on my bar floor tonight. I have a pleasant cage for them to dance semi-clothed in, instead.

Semi? We could be dead tomorrow - forget semi!

[Freudian Slit]

Oh, and until we figure out who's who, Zoggie and HazelNutCoffee aren't allowed on my bar floor tonight. I have a pleasant cage for them to dance semi-clothed in, instead.
::sobs:: I want a drink!!!

...semi clothed cage dancing? Ooh! :)

[Stanislaus]

Fine. We zombies will simply sit in the graveyard, tantalised by the whooping, cheering and (frankly undignified) begging noises, until we are drawn in to the light, warmth and music...


Braaaiiiins!

[MHaye]

Watch out MHaye: That might be rotting ghostly flesh in a little bit, if your packmates don't eat the Necro tonight.Have you any idea how lonely it is being a ghost when all your packsisters are off looking for brains?

Besides, that's what Purify Food and Drink is for. ;)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Hey. I don't dance naked.

For free, anyway.

I demand a drink.

[Freudian Slit]

Drink of the night: The Revelation. Chilled sparkling water, lightly tainted with the blood of innocents.
Hm. It doesn't have alcohol?

But still.

Pwease? we can haz drinkses?

[Santo Rugger]

*smuggles a bottle of Patron into the bar*

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Semi? We could be dead tomorrow - forget semi!

Hey. I don't dance naked.

For free, anyway.

I demand a drink.

Hm. It doesn't have alcohol?

But still.

Pwease? we can haz drinkses?

Hey, I'm a fair witch. And I think we can solve all of these problems with one fell swoop.
Shadow: you're Zoggie's replacement as barback for tonight. And your sole job will be to keep our entertainers liquored up! Now let's party!

Hmmm... what music to play? A little James Taylor perhaps?

:: plays 'Our Town' on the jukebox::

[DiggitCamara]

Hey, I'm a fair witch. And I think we can solve all of these problems with one fell swoop.
Shadow: you're Zoggie's replacement as barback for tonight. And your sole job will be to keep our entertainers liquored up! Now let's party!

Hmmm... what music to play? A little James Taylor perhaps?

:: plays 'Our Town' on the jukebox::
Aaagggh!!!! An edit!!!! BURN THAT WITCH!!!!

[HazelNutCoffee]

You want me to dance naked to JAMES TAYLOR? :: horrified look ::

[Hockey Monkey]

I know I'm dead and all, but can I ghost in to see the naked cage dancing? Pweeese?

[dotchan]

No other posts toNight, too busy failing my 3-D modeling class. :(

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

You want me to dance naked to JAMES TAYLOR? :: horrified look ::
Good point. He doens't really get the bits a jigglin' does he? Suggestions?

I know I'm dead and all, but can I ghost in to see the naked cage dancing? Pweeese?

You can get your ghostly self up into the cage, too, if you like. :)

[Idle Thoughts]

How about ghost karoke?

*grabs a mic and starts to sing*

ooo eee ooo ahhh ahhh ting tang walla-walla bing bang!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

How about ghost karoke?

*grabs a mic and starts to sing*

ooo eee ooo ahhh ahhh ting tang walla-walla bing bang!

What's that Idle? I think youneed to turn the mic up. ;)

[CatInASuit]

Drink of the night: The Revelation. Chilled sparkling water, lightly tainted with the blood of innocents.

Thanks Diomedes, that's my favourite. Just hold the water ok. ;)

[ShadowFacts]

How about ghost karoke?

*grabs a mic and starts to sing*

ooo eee ooo ahhh ahhh ting tang walla-walla bing bang!


Oh yes, the bits are jigglin' now!

[ShadowFacts]

This post is in honor of not dropping to page 2 and for almost being to 2000 posts :)

[HazelNutCoffee]

This cage is getting kinda crowded. I think we should start making out.

What?

[Freudian Slit]

This cage is getting kinda crowded. I think we should start making out.

What?
You mean making out an escape plan? Good idea, I'll get right on it...

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Good thing the only cop in town is dead. Otherwise, they'd take my liquor license for sure.

[Rysto]

This cage is getting kinda crowded. I think we should start making out.

What?
Wouldn't that be both bestiality and necrophilia?