Mafia: The Conspiracy

[Pleonast]

The Conspiracy

The Town of Cecilwich is a quaint little village in an isolated corner of New England. Life has been peaceful, if cliquish. Until last Night that is, when Mayor Cecil was brutally murdered. In fact, rumors whisper that he was partially eaten by a Werewolf! The Town is fracturing along lines of paranoia and suspicious. Who could have perpetrated the heinous crime? Who among them are secretly plotting the Town's downfall? The Town has resolved to purge itself of undesirable elements.

Each Day, the Town must decide whether or not to lynch a suspected troublemaker. Whoever collects the most votes will hang at the end of the Day. Each Night, the residents huddle in their homes and pubs, waiting it out. In the morning, the newly deceased are collected and prepared for burial. Unfortunately, the ineptitude of the Town bureaucracy prevents efficient processing of paperwork--it takes a full two Days for the complete disclosure of the late residents' identity and other incriminating evidence.

The Coroner and Detective are steady civil servants, hired personally by the Mayor. Too bad only he knew their identities. The Coroner will immediately find the complete identification forms for any deceased resident. The Detective may investigate a recent death to try to determine the perpetrator. The Town's Vicar, recently out of cloisters and still unrecognized, can perform the final rites on any hapless victims.

Among the loyal Town residents are the Freemasons, an organization so secretive that it doesn't even know its own membership. Fortunately, each Freemason does know the secret handsign that can be used to covertly identity another member. The Scotsman is hardy soul, and while somewhat shy, can readily defend himself against an attack. The Vigilante, on the other hand, is perfectly prepared to take matters into his own hands, if only he knew who to target. He'd deeply regret making a mistake. The Magician is a sly trickster and escape artist. He has devised an elaborate gimmick to elude an attacker.

The Town has a several citizens with mystical abilities to counter the unknown threats. The Seer may look deep into the souls of others, to determine their true intentions. The Warlock knows a terrible curse that will exact a horrible death on anyone who violates its ward. The Witchdoctor practices a strange juju that will return a person's soul to their body, after one day of death.

It is rumored that three Witches also live within the Town. They supposedly use their pagan spells to protect and guide it. Their power is dependent on their number, but they can consult with their dead sisters, to gain better insights.

Apparently, the Town is beset by a ravenous pack of Werewolves. They can hunt and feast upon a Town resident each Night, yet pass as a regular citizen during the day. A typical pack will be head by a ferocious Alpha Wolf, ruling the pack with an iron fist, and tailed by a meek Omega Wolf, who will be difficult to distinguish, even with magic, from an honest Townfolk. The wolves must eliminate as much of the Town as possible, in order to dominate it as their chattel food source.

Lurking on the edge of Town, hiding his ghastly profession, is a Necromancer. He seeks to lord over the living by reanimating the dead into his mindless Zombie slaves. Once his army has reached a sufficient number, the dead will shamble into Town to conquer it. A Vampire, in a loose confederation with the Necromancer, sates his hunger on the occasional victim, thoughtfully providing another source of corpses.

Most insidiously, a cryptic organization has infiltrated the Town: the Cabal. With only limited mystic powers, they scheme to take over the Town for their own purposes. They have a secret channel of communication in which they may consult with each other and make plans. Only the Witches can stop them, provided the Town survives assault by the evils of the Night.

Ultimately, the Town must survive against all the forces besetting it. Good luck!

[Pleonast]

Signing up for the game

I have slots for exactly 20 Players. I've have a reserved spots for Chronos and Mtgman for the help they gave in balancing the rules (I do not believe either one has knowledge that would give an unfair advantage), another spot for Blaster Master, as the game master of the previous game, and Idle Thoughts, for helping me with the secret boards, if they want to claim. The remaining 16 slots will be filled randomly from SDMB Members who express an interest in this thread (don't PM/email for a spot) before noon, Wednesday the 26th, Pacific Time. Day One will start noon, Friday the 28th, Pacific Time, ending the following Wednesday.

Please do not sign up for the game if you are not willing to make a commitment to it. You're signing up to read the thread, think carefully about it, and post your thoughts to it. Daily. This game in particular will be fast paced and require a lot of thought. That said, there are only 20 Players and I expect the game to last no more than 12 weeks (ending mid-December, accommodations will be made for Thanksgiving [and Christmas if necessary]).

I'm giving plenty of time for sign ups, so everyone who's interested has a chance. In the mean time, because of the complexity of the rules, it might be a good time to ask questions about the various Roles and discuss possible strategies.

[Drain Bead]

Yes, please. I have a long weekend's vacation coming up at the end of this month, but other than that I expect to be present and accounted for almost every day.

[Hockey Monkey]

I am expressing interest in this thread. :p

[MadTheSwine]

Me too.

[Rysto]

I haven't played one of these in months, so I'm in.

[Santo Rugger]

*sigh* Twist my arm why don't you... so much for a break!!!

[Kat]

Should I? *ponders* How difficult is it to play and mod at the same time?

[MHaye]

I'd be interested in playing.

[Pleonast]

Should I? *ponders* How difficult is it to play and mod at the same time?Depends on the games. How hard is it to mod your game? This one, for example, has special powers to resolve both Night and Day. So I'm not playing in any others.

And playing in this one may be time consuming, considering all the power Roles and their interactions. But I expect the typical Doper can handle all that, right? :)

BTW, I forgot to point out the links in my sig. (See links in my sig, second post here.)

[DiggitCamara]

I'd like to play. I think I have the whole "2 games at once" licked.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I -knew- there was a Scotsman in this game (see some post or other I made in the Firefly game offboard).
I wanna play!

[Fretful Porpentine]

OK, why is it that every time I'm in the middle of one of these games, I swear I'm never playing again, but then a couple of weeks later I can't wait for the next one?

Oh, hell. I'd like to play.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

bSo some thoughts on some roles:

The Undead: The Necromancer will probably be a fairly decent role in this game. Given all he needs to do is out guess the Vicar and the Warlock for a few turns, and then stay alive himself. The Vampire, while a terrifically powerful role in his own right, is darn near screwed if the necromancer dies. Even immune to nightkills and discovery by the detective, he'll have to be very lucky to manage to kill off everyone for a win on his own.

If the Magician redirects a kill, and the detective investigates is, does Shazzam the Wonderful get implicated in the murder?

The Cabal looks like the least likely to win. There's not much place to hide in this game, and they can't win by just hoping the wolves and the undead die early. Counting on the witches to be dead, while unable to do any dirty work themselves, will be difficult. In the end-game, I don't see how anyone will be able to hide effectively, and the Cabalists will be vulnerable to lynching when the other scum levels start to drop.

By the way, if all roles are used, I count at least 14 players before any freemasons, Cabalists, or a third werewolf is added. 20 players, if all roles are used, wouldn't give much place for scum to roleclaim, particularly given that the easiest thing to claim would be freemason, which would be quickly and easily checked by any surviving masons. I hope the delay on role-reveal will be balancing enough.

[Pleonast]

bSo some thoughts on some roles:
The Undead: The Necromancer will probably be a fairly decent role in this game. Given all he needs to do is out guess the Vicar and the Warlock for a few turns, and then stay alive himself. The Vampire, while a terrifically powerful role in his own right, is darn near screwed if the necromancer dies. Even immune to nightkills and discovery by the detective, he'll have to be very lucky to manage to kill off everyone for a win on his own.Good analysis, but the Warlock doesn't really interact with the Necromancer, since the Necro never kills anyone. The Vampire has the bonus of the Wolves wanting to keep him alive.If the Magician redirects a kill, and the detective investigates is, does Shazzam the Wonderful get implicated in the murder?The Magician redirects the kill, so the the Magician's would-be attacker kills whoever the Magician points to.The Cabal looks like the least likely to win. There's not much place to hide in this game, and they can't win by just hoping the wolves and the undead die early. Counting on the witches to be dead, while unable to do any dirty work themselves, will be difficult. In the end-game, I don't see how anyone will be able to hide effectively, and the Cabalists will be vulnerable to lynching when the other scum levels start to drop.Yep, the Cabal will have a tough time, but no one is actively hunting them, at least in the beginning. Don't underestimate the power of a blocking role when everyone has a power.By the way, if all roles are used, I count at least 14 players before any freemasons, Cabalists, or a third werewolf is added. 20 players, if all roles are used, wouldn't give much place for scum to roleclaim, particularly given that the easiest thing to claim would be freemason, which would be quickly and easily checked by any surviving masons. I hope the delay on role-reveal will be balancing enough.There will be many unused Roles (and potentially unused Sides). Have fun guessing which! :) There may also be duplicates of Roles (don't be misled by my use of singulars), so a counter-claim can't be automatically dismissed. Expect false claims and expect some difficulty unraveling them.

[Freudian Slit]

I've never played, but I've seen a few of the threads. I'd like to join up.

Count me in, please!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Good analysis, but the Warlock doesn't really interact with the Necromancer, since the Necro never kills anyone.

Sorry, I meant Witchdoctor, not Warlock. Sorry, there's a lot to keep track of.

[Stanislaus]

I'd like to sign up. I've got one three-day weekend at the beginning of November, but nothing else planned...

[Idle Thoughts]

Should I? *ponders* How difficult is it to play and mod at the same time?

Not very as I'm sure I and Blaster can also tell you.

Yep, still in, Pleonast. Sounds good.

[ShadowFacts]

I am interested in playing. (I've been lurking here for years and have been following the various mafia games with great interest).

Thanks!

[DiggitCamara]

(snip)
Expect false claims and expect some difficulty unraveling them.
And you, of course, will be part of the mason group, won't you?

D&R :p

[Kat]

Eh. What the hey, I'll throw my name into the mix.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I'd like to sign up. Hopefully I'll get Internet this Tuesday at my new apartment. The game won't start before then, will it?

[Rysto]

I'd like to sign up. Hopefully I'll get Internet this Tuesday at my new apartment. The game won't start before then, will it?
The game starts on the 28th.

[Pleonast]

As Rysto, said game starts Friday the 28th, players chosen and roles assigned on Wednesday the 26th. I wanted to give everyone time to digest the rules before jumping in.

[Drain Bead]

I go out of town the 29th and am out until the 2nd. If that's a problem, I won't play, but I'll try to get on every day to at least read the posts and respond with something quick and cursory, even if it's just an "I'm here, guys."

[MHaye]

I've been reminded.

I'll be unable to post on the 9th, 11th and 16th of October (well, probably), and will have reduced access on other days between those times.

Family obligations.

If that's a problem I'll take a spot on the sub's bench.

[NAF1138]

Should I? *ponders* How difficult is it to play and mod at the same time?
Not that hard, I did it with M2 and M3.

Good luck to all playing, I am sitting this one out (no time to really play), but will be following with interest.

[Millit the Frail]

I really, really wish I could get back in....I miss my Mafia game something awful! However, I'm taking too many classes and it would be really irresponsible. My regrets. I'll be watching, though. Have fun!!

[Pleonast]

Missing a few days here or there isn't game-breaking. Prolonged absences are the problem. Substitutions are very bad--I'd like to avoid them completely. In this game especially, where evaluating every Player is important (when everyone has a power Role), subs cause too much disruption. I'm more likely to mod-kill.

Because of how I've set up the Days, missing a weekend isn't catastrophic (in fact, I will be much slower to respond on weekends). So, Drain Bead, you'll only miss the middle of the Day. As long as you post some on the 28th and then before the Day ends on the 3rd, there's no problem. And MHaye, I don't see a problem.

[fluiddruid]

I'll sign up.

[Hal Briston]

Interest heavily expressed.

[Blaster Master]

Alrighty, I'm in... with the forethought that weekends are generally difficult for me. But me thinks I makes up for that during the week, yes?

[ShadowFacts]

I'm giving plenty of time for sign ups, so everyone who's interested has a chance. In the mean time, because of the complexity of the rules, it might be a good time to ask questions about the various Roles and discuss possible strategies.

I have a couple of questions:

Vigilante: each Night may kill any one Player, including Vampires. Must target himself if the Player is later revealed to be on the Town Side.

So, just to be clear. If the Vigilante kills someone at night, and then the next day that victim’s “side” is revealed to be town, the Vigilante MUST kill him- or herself that night (if s/he’s not already been killed some other way). And the only “reveal” that counts is the one that comes from you (Pleonast), not some investigation or other role. For example, if the Vig kills a Freemason known to other Freemasons, the Vig is not obligated to commit suicide if the living masons come out and say “Hey, he was one of us!”


Zombie: may not do anything, except for an occasional color post during the Night. You still win or lose based on your original Side.

As far as I can tell, the only purpose of the zombie is to pad the numbers of the undead to help with their win condition, yes? And zombies cannot be killed again, right?


And finally, are we to assume that there will be no identifying of who killed whom? For example, will werewolf victims always have their throats ripped out? Will vigilante victims always be shot, or somesuch? I'm assuming no, since this game seems to be heavy on the mystery :cool:

[Freudian Slit]

And finally, are we to assume that there will be no identifying of who killed whom? For example, will werewolf victims always have their throats ripped out? Will vigilante victims always be shot, or somesuch? I'm assuming no, since this game seems to be heavy on the mystery :cool:
In previous games, they made it clear when townspeople guessed wrong or right (whether they killed another townsperson or a werewolf). I think without that reveal, it would be a little....too mysterious!

[Rysto]

So, just to be clear. If the Vigilante kills someone at night, and then the next day that victim’s “side” is revealed to be town, the Vigilante MUST kill him- or herself that night (if s/he’s not already been killed some other way). And the only “reveal” that counts is the one that comes from you (Pleonast), not some investigation or other role. For example, if the Vig kills a Freemason known to other Freemasons, the Vig is not obligated to commit suicide if the living masons come out and say “Hey, he was one of us!”
I read that as, if you kill a Townie then you must kill yourself 2 nights later.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I read that as, if you kill a Townie then you must kill yourself 2 nights later.

Would the Vig's self-kill be doc-blockable?

(or witch blockable.... but doc-block has such a zesty ring to it)

[Pleonast]

So, just to be clear. If the Vigilante kills someone at night, and then the next day that victim’s “side” is revealed to be town, the Vigilante MUST kill him- or herself that night (if s/he’s not already been killed some other way). And the only “reveal” that counts is the one that comes from you (Pleonast), not some investigation or other role. For example, if the Vig kills a Freemason known to other Freemasons, the Vig is not obligated to commit suicide if the living masons come out and say “Hey, he was one of us!”Rysto has it right. An example sequence:
Night 1: Alice the Vigilante kills Bob the Witch.
Day 2: it's revealed Bob is dead.
Day 3: it's revealed Bob is Town.
Night 3: Alice kills herself.
Day 4: it's revealed Alice is dead and Bob is a Witch.
Day 5: it's revealed Alice is Town.
Day 6: it's revealed Alice is a Vigilante.

Only the moderator's reveals count, because everything else is potentially a lie.As far as I can tell, the only purpose of the zombie is to pad the numbers of the undead to help with their win condition, yes? And zombies cannot be killed again, right?Zombies are destroyed when the Necromancer is, although it won't be known immediately. Since dead Mafia players on the SDMB have a habit of haunting the living, I figured to make it an official part of the game.And finally, are we to assume that there will be no identifying of who killed whom? For example, will werewolf victims always have their throats ripped out? Will vigilante victims always be shot, or somesuch? I'm assuming no, since this game seems to be heavy on the mystery :cool:You got to figure out who killed who for yourself.

And, Zoggie, yes, it will be very mysterious. The delayed release of information helps the scum hide their deceits. And also makes it hard for the scum to know which Role they killed.

[Pleonast]

Would the Vig's self-kill be doc-blockable?

(or witch blockable.... but doc-block has such a zesty ring to it)The Vigilante only needs to kill herself if she actually kills another Townie. Attempted murder is not a problem.

Edit: Doh! I misunderstood your question.

Yes, the Vig's attempt to kill herself could be blocked. But she'll keep trying until she succeeds. Very interesting.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

---

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Yes, the Vig's attempt to kill herself could be blocked. But she'll keep trying until she succeeds. Very interesting.

Aww! You didn't say she'd have to keep killing herself! Only that's she'd have to attack herself the next night. :(

I thought that would be an amazingly interesting thing: forcing the Vig to declare after a miskill, in an attempt to get the witches to protect her from herself.... but if they did, they'd be leaving the rest of the town open to attack.

[Kat]

Only the moderator's reveals count, because everything else is potentially a lie.Zombies are destroyed when the Necromancer is, although it won't be known immediately. Since dead Mafia players on the SDMB have a habit of haunting the living, I figured to make it an official part of the game.You got to figure out who killed who for yourself.

Will any of the Zombies be cheerleaders?

[Pleonast]

Will any of the Zombies be cheerleaders?If the Necromancer swings that way. ;)

[CatInASuit]

Pleonast,

Add me to the list of interested players.

Cheers

CIAS

[Pleonast]

We're up to 18 people interested in playing (check the Players (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dwp82xq_10qv9pnj) link in my sig for a list). It's a random draw for players, so don't be afraid to jump in, it's not too late.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

(check the Players (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dwp82xq_10qv9pnj) link in my sig for a list).


Nooooooo! unvote: Alpha before it's too late!

[CatInASuit]

And for those of without access to Google docs :(

[Pleonast]

And for those of without access to Google docs :(Ok, I made a crude mirror (http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&thread=1190228487) on the secret board. You'll have to register (it's painless). The actual secret scum forums should be well hidden.

[Kat]

Well, yeah....and then we need to wait for approval to see it. :(

[Kat]

Aha! Finally got the Google doc to load.

"ShadowFactsKat"? Have the two of us merged into one person? Does that deal come with superpowers? :D

[dotchan]

Question: Where will the game actually be played?

Given the slightly frightening size of Mafia V, and now NAF's (1000+ posts on Day 1! :eek: -- but it's a 100% closed setup so we're hypothesizing ourselves into circles ) I hope it's not on the SDMB.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Question: Where will the game actually be played?

Given the slightly frightening size of Mafia V, and now NAF's (1000+ posts on Day 1! :eek: -- but it's a 100% closed setup so we're hypothesizing ourselves into circles ) I hope it's not on the SDMB.

There won't be a Roosh, and I'll be a lot quieter in this one. Plus, no closed setup. I don't think there'll be an issue with the game blowing up like that one. -Nothing- on mafiascum looks anywhere near as bad as that one's going.

[Pleonast]

The game will be played right here in this thread. But those Players with secret communications (Witches, Wolves, Cabalists) will discuss their plans over on the other board. Where it'll be secret. :)

There'll be only 20 players in this one, so I expect the thread won't break any records.

[Hockey Monkey]

There won't be a Roosh, and I'll be a lot quieter in this one. Plus, no closed setup. I don't think there'll be an issue with the game blowing up like that one. -Nothing- on mafiascum looks anywhere near as bad as that one's going.


Seriously, the Firefly game may go down in the mafia history books.

[dotchan]

I think I'll just sign up as a substitute, watching from the Peanut Gallery. I don't know how crazy my schedule will get at the end of the semester. (And I try not to do too many things at the same time - I'm also currently signed up for a D&D thing Cafe Society and I also have a couple of writing projects on my plate.)

[Idle Thoughts]

For some reason, I can't wait for this game.

[Hal Briston]

Same here...I'm very psyched for this one.

[Pleonast]

If I'm counting correctly now (no ShadowFactsKat :p ), we still need one more person. Maybe one of the soon to be dead in the Firefly game. :D

[storyteller0910]

If I'm counting correctly now (no ShadowFactsKat :p ), we still need one more person. Maybe one of the soon to be dead in the Firefly game. :D

If I somehow get euthanized over there, I'd be happy to play over here. Unfortunately, there's no way I can even imagine doing both.

[CatInASuit]

Come on Dopers.

Only one more volunteer required to get the fun and games started. It is good fun.

Honest :D

[dotchan]

Come on Dopers.

Only one more volunteer required to get the fun and games started. It is good fun.

Honest :D

Oh, sure, you can say that because you didn't get lynched on Day 1. :P

[CatInASuit]

Oh, sure, you can say that because you didn't get lynched on Day 1. :P
<exalt> dotchan </exalt>

Sorry dotchan, it was either you or me and you looked so scummy. :smack:

[sachertorte]

I'll play.

[ShadowFacts]

If I'm counting correctly now (no ShadowFactsKat :p ), we still need one more person. Maybe one of the soon to be dead in the Firefly game. :D

I've never merged with someone and not noticed before! ;)

[Kat]

Darn. I guess that means no superpowers. ;)

[nesta]

I would like to play. I think I'm rested enough now after the Psychopath game to give it a good effort.

Vote dotchan. Not wanting to jump right in is an obvious scum slip, and her death will give us a lot of good information. That and she's too shiny.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

vote: dotchan

All right, let's get this wagon arollin'

[dotchan]

I would like to play. I think I'm rested enough now after the Psychopath game to give it a good effort.

Vote dotchan. Not wanting to jump right in is an obvious scum slip, and her death will give us a lot of good information. That and she's too shiny.

Oh my God, you suck!

vote nesta

(Thanks for the laugh, nesta! For the rest of you scratching your heads, consult the Psycopaths game modded by Idle Thoughts and the Firefly game modded by Naf/Kat here (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi).)

*ETA: Ooh, let's see if I can get lynched before the game can even start! I'll go as far as hammering myself, too. :D

[Kat]

Well, based on her previous games, if dotchan appears scummy, she's probably Town. Which means, since she doesn't appear scummy right now, she must be Mafia!

Lynch dotchan!

[Hal Briston]

Well, I'm pretty sure she's town, but the slight possibility of info is better than a no-lynch.

vote dotchan

[One And Only Wanderers]

im interested too!

of course im too late....

[dotchan]

You can sign up for the sub list.

Although, since I'm ahead of you, I think the players might not want to sub out at all, because then I'd take their place first. :D

Oh, and to help all those bandwagoners along:

THIS POST IS A SCUM TELL!

:D

[MHaye]

im interested too!

of course im too late....Actually you're not.

Pleonast is managing signups not on a first-come first-served basis but on a random selection basis. See post 2 for details.

[DiggitCamara]

im interested too!

of course im too late....
No, you're not. Here, I'll show you:

vote dotchan

Like others have said before, she not only is probably scum (and will mysteriously revert to town on her death), but also won't have an important role, so we don't actually lose anything by lynching her.

d&r :D


(btw, the smiley was included just in case roosh happens to read this and miss the joking nature of my post... :D )

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Actually you're not.

Pleonast is managing signups not on a first-come first-served basis but on a random selection basis. See post 2 for details.

Hopefully, he's picking the subs on a random selection basis, too... just imagine, if we had someone drop out every Day, we could lynch dotchan every night!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Actually you're not.

Pleonast is managing signups not on a first-come first-served basis but on a random selection basis. See post 2 for details.

Hopefully, he's picking the subs on a random selection basis, too... just imagine, if we had someone drop out every Day, we could lynch dotchan every dusk!

[Pleonast]

We have enough. Roles will be sent out on Wednesday. As others have reiterated, it's not too late to join in--I'll pick people (and line up roles) via random.org. I want to give everyone a shot at joining the game. I'll probably pick subs randomly as well, although I'm more inclined to mod-kill.

[CatInASuit]

I feel guilty now

Launch "Protect dotchan from lynch" plan #4 and bandwagon someone else.

Better vote diomedes instead. He has placed far too many votes and is trying to swing it.

Who is with me!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I feel guilty now

Launch "Protect dotchan from lynch" plan #4 and bandwagon someone else.

Better vote diomedes instead. He has placed far too many votes and is trying to swing it.

Who is with me!

Hey! A new bandwagon? Shiny! I'm on it! vote: Diomedes!

[dotchan]

Hey! A new bandwagon? Shiny! I'm on it! vote: Diomedes!

Forgetting to unvote is a scumtell! :p

unvote nesta, vote Diomedes

Help, I don't think I can stop myself.

[ShadowFacts]

We have enough. Roles will be sent out on Wednesday. As others have reiterated, it's not too late to join in--I'll pick people (and line up roles) via random.org. I want to give everyone a shot at joining the game. I'll probably pick subs randomly as well, although I'm more inclined to mod-kill.

While I completely understand the desire to be flexible and not unduly affect the outcome of the game by killing players, I suggest that a "no substitutions, you WILL be modkilled" policy would make people think thrice about bailing.

Just a thought.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

While I completely understand the desire to be flexible and not unduly affect the outcome of the game by killing players, I suggest that a "no substitutions, you WILL be modkilled" policy would make people think thrice about bailing.

Just a thought.

The problem with it is that it really just punishes the teammates of the payer: if one of the witches ends up getting too caught up in work/school, or if the Omega Wolf gets banned for pissing in fluiddruid's cornflakes, it could be dangerously upsetting to the balance of the game.

Then again, as long as it's not someone on my side, I'm fine with it. :cool:

[ShadowFacts]

The problem with it is that it really just punishes the teammates of the payer: if one of the witches ends up getting too caught up in work/school, or if the Omega Wolf gets banned for pissing in fluiddruid's cornflakes, it could be dangerously upsetting to the balance of the game.

Then again, as long as it's not someone on my side, I'm fine with it. :cool:

Yeah, it's a tough call, and as a general rule I'm in favor of flexibility. But watching Mafia V here, it was clear that the attitude of some folks was "Oh, they can just sub me in, so it's no big deal if I bug out." But it turned out to be a big deal when so many left.

Anyway, it's Pleonast's call - I was just tossing in a thought I had.

[Pleonast]

I figure I need to be like the Federal Reserve: give strong hints about what I'm thinking about doing, but not commit to anything. :D

So my strong inclination to mod-kill should discourage players from quitting. But I have enough freedom, that if a mod-kill would upset the game too much, I can sub. The benefit of having many power roles, is no single player is absolutely essential.

[Freudian Slit]

How do we know if we've made it into the game? (Or have less than twenty people signed up?)

[HazelNutCoffee]

How do we know if we've made it into the game? (Or have less than twenty people signed up?)
Upthread, Pleonast said that roles will be sent out on Wednesday. :)

[DiggitCamara]

Hopefully, he's picking the subs on a random selection basis, too... just imagine, if we had someone drop out every Day, we could lynch dotchan every dusk!
Sounds like a perfect plan. If we lynch her whilst a normal player, she'll be able to sub in. Once she becomes scum, we lynch her and get scum!

Win-win!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Sounds like a perfect plan. If we lynch her whilst a normal player, she'll be able to sub in. Once she becomes scum, we lynch her and get scum!

Win-win!

Step One: Lynch dotchan
Step Two: ???
Step Three: Profit!!!!!!!!!

[Pleonast]

I hope you guys don't confuse future vote counts with your pre-Game antics. :)

I've written the PMs for all the Roles. Everything is ready to go; I'm just waiting for Wednesday afternoon to make the Player and Role selections (yes, lurkers, you can still sign up for a chance to play). I wish I could include everyone, but experience shows the smaller games work better. That'll be especially true for this complex rules set.

I'm really looking forward to this--I hope you all will enjoy it to.

[Freudian Slit]

Upthread, Pleonast said that roles will be sent out on Wednesday. :)
Whoops--thanks! Till Wednesday, then.

Will players who expressed interest but don't make it to this game have any sort of priority in future games?

[Pleonast]

Whoops--thanks! Till Wednesday, then.

Will players who expressed interest but don't make it to this game have any sort of priority in future games?That's up to future game moderators. Personally, I like the system I'm using--a few reserved spots (including the last game's unlucky shut-outs, if any) and then a random draw.

[CatInASuit]

I'm really looking forward to this, it looks like it could be really good fun.

Here's hoping dotchan doesn't get lynched immediately.

[Pleonast]

Hey, dotchan, you said you wanted to be on the sub list, not the starting player list. Is this still true? Or do you want the opportunity to be lynched immediately? ;)

[CatInASuit]

Hey, dotchan, you said you wanted to be on the sub list, not the starting player list. Is this still true? Or do you want the opportunity to be lynched immediately? ;)
Hey, who said she had to be in the game to be lynched immediately . :p

[dotchan]

Hey, dotchan, you said you wanted to be on the sub list, not the starting player list. Is this still true? Or do you want the opportunity to be lynched immediately? ;)

Yeah, I've subbed back into NAF/Kat's game (mwahaha! I'm invincible! :D) so I'm gonna hang out in the peanut gallery.

Remember, if the rest of you players flake you have to risk me being your replacement! :D

[Pleonast]

Oh, that reminds me, there can be no subbing back in for players in this game. Once you're dead for sure, you're out. With no vanilla roles, it just wouldn't work.

[Idle Thoughts]

Sounds sensible.

[CatInASuit]

C'Mon Pleonast, it's now wednesday, where are the PM's?

Also are you going to PM anyone who didn't make it that they are going to be on the sub list if they want.

CIAS

[sachertorte]

Pleonast is on the West Coast of the US. I presume he is sleeping.

[Pleonast]

C'Mon Pleonast, it's now wednesday, where are the PM's?
Also are you going to PM anyone who didn't make it that they are going to be on the sub list if they want.You crazy British, up at odd hours in the night. :)

I did say noon, Pacific Time. I'll probably get to it before then, depending on my workload this morning.

[Pleonast]

I am sending out Role PMs momentarily. The Player List is

01. Idle Thoughts
02. Diomedes
03. Kat
04. Hockey Monkey
05. CatinaSuit
06. HazelNutCoffee
07. Hal Briston
08. DiggitCamara
09. Drain Bead
10. Blaster Master
11. Rysto
12. nesta
13. amrussell
14. fluiddruid
15. Pygmy Rugger
16. Fretful Porpentine
17. MadTheSwine
18. Zoggie
19. MHaye
20. sachertorte
21. One and Only Wanderers
22. ShadowFacts

Role order is random, of course. You'll immediately notice I'm a big softie who didn't have the heart to cut any of you. :p Please confirm that you've received your Role, either by PM or email to me or stating you received it here. If you have any questions about your Role (or any Role, actually), ask me via PM or email.

We are now in Night Zero. Please wait until Friday to start real discussion, but feel free to continue any charming banter that strikes your fancy. Roles who can talk at Night in secret, may do so on the appropriate forum until Friday at noon, Pacific Time. But no Powers may be used.

Good luck, everyone! Remember, there are four Sides here, and only one can win, so the odds are already against you. :D

[Hockey Monkey]

<spongebob> I'm ready! I'm ready! IIIIII"m Ready! </spongebob>

PM confirmed.

[Stanislaus]

Got the PM, thanks!

[Hal Briston]

In there!

[MHaye]

PM received and understood.

[sachertorte]

Confirmed.

[DiggitCamara]

Got my PM. Ready to roll.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Yay! Got my role!

[Drain Bead]

/in

[Freudian Slit]

Got mine, and responded to you via PM...am posting in thread to confirm, too.

[One And Only Wanderers]

confirmed

[ShadowFacts]

Thanks for squeaking me in at #22 - I'm in!

[Pleonast]

Thanks for squeaking me in at #22 - I'm in!Actually it was CatinaSuit and fluiddruid who were chosen by random.org to be cut. Roles were randomly ordered and randomly assigned after that point, so don't anyone try to meta-game the Roles.

[CatInASuit]

Actually it was CatinaSuit and fluiddruid who were chosen by random.org to be cut. Roles were randomly ordered and randomly assigned after that point, so don't anyone try to meta-game the Roles.

Cheers Pleonast, so glad I get to be in. Otherwise, I would definitely be drive-by wailing in this thread.

Just to note: I will be away from the 28th to 30th. I will try to get some internet time to pitch in though.

Apart from that, Ready to Rock! :cool:

[Santo Rugger]

Byahh!!!

[Freudian Slit]

Question--how long do night and day last?

ETA: Okay, the first day clearly lasts one week. Are they all one week long? And is night shorter than day or is it also a week long?

[Fretful Porpentine]

Got my role, thanks!

[Pleonast]

Question--how long do night and day last?

ETA: Okay, the first day clearly lasts one week. Are they all one week long? And is night shorter than day or is it also a week long?It's easy: Nights are Wednesday noon to Friday noon (always Pacific Time) each week. Days are Friday noon to Wednesday noon each week. Fixed and immutable (except for Thanksgiving and Christmas, if we go that long).

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

/vote: scum

[Freudian Slit]

It's easy: Nights are Wednesday noon to Friday noon (always Pacific Time) each week. Days are Friday noon to Wednesday noon each week. Fixed and immutable (except for Thanksgiving and Christmas, if we go that long).
Great, thanks Plenoast. Can't wait till Friday!

[DiggitCamara]

Announcing, loud and clear: I'm a male!

(Best to get those things out of the way, don'tcha think?) :p

[Kat]

Confirmed!

And I'm female. :D

[Idle Thoughts]

All set.
No large font in this game either. Sorry, guys.

[nesta]

Confirmed. :)

Since it's the in thing to do I'll state for the record I am male. Not that I expect anyone to remember this.

[Rysto]

I thought that we made a rule that male players in the Werewolf games weren't allowed to have a name ending in "a"? ;)

Male, btw.

[nesta]

I thought that we made a rule that male players in the Werewolf games weren't allowed to have a name ending in "a"? ;)

Now you tell me. If only this was the other board so I could temporarily change my name to nesto.

[Pleonast]

Everyone has confirmed, except Blaster Master.

[Blaster Master]

Hey, I'm confirming now. Work absolutely killed me earlier this week... this is the first chance I've had to check in since then.

[Santo Rugger]

Hey, BlaM, can we make an agreement? No math in this one? Pretty, pretty please? :)

[MHaye]

Hey, PR?

The fundamental identity : a=a.

[Pleonast]

Hey, BlaM, can we make an agreement? No math in this one? Pretty, pretty please? :)I very intentionally left out randomness and percentage-based Powers. Although I'm a math-type person, these games are hard enough without having to do Bayesian analyses.

[Santo Rugger]

Hey, PR?

The fundamental identity : a=a.

Interesting! :D

[NAF1138]

Is there an observation thread for this game yet? If not I will post one.

[Rysto]

I very intentionally left out randomness and percentage-based Powers. Although I'm a math-type person, these games are hard enough without having to do Bayesian analyses.
Ah. What about the working out the optimal strategy for the Vicar? It seems like there's plenty of probability theory there. :D

[Hal Briston]

Hey, BlaM, can we make an agreement? No math in this one? Pretty, pretty please? :)Unless, of course, it's simple subtraction of scum.

[Freudian Slit]

For once I'm going to need to stay out of the Mafia observation thread! I feel special! :)

[Pleonast]

Ah. What about the working out the optimal strategy for the Vicar? It seems like there's plenty of probability theory there. :DNah, that's just Wine-In-Front-Of-Me game theory. :p

I forgot about the forbidden thread. I'll start it momentarily if it's still not in existence.

[Blaster Master]

I very intentionally left out randomness and percentage-based Powers. Although I'm a math-type person, these games are hard enough without having to do Bayesian analyses.

Haha... go look at my information theory posts in the Firefly game. :D

[CatInASuit]

Haha... go look at my information theory posts in the Firefly game. :D
By all means look at them.

Now pity the poor players who have to try and understand it and work out if he is townie playing smart or scum hiding behind it. :confused:

[CatInASuit]

Confirmed!

And I'm female. :D

Just for note: I'm the male Cat

As in Cat In A Suit, not Catina Suit.

Good luck all, see you in a couple of days.

(Idle Thoughts will probably still get it wrong though :p )

[Drain Bead]

Are we starting today? Are we starting today?

*bounce bounce bounce*

[Pleonast]

The Day would normally start at noon Pacific Time, when I reveal the results of the previous Night. But since this is the first Day, there's nothing to reveal, so feel free to start. (Roles who can talk secretly at Night, may still do until noon, about 4 1/2 hours from now.)

To remind you of the mechanics, please vote and unvote like this:
Vote Pleonast
Unvote Pleonast
Bold, in blue/red color, and on it's own line. That's so I don't miss it while skimming through.

You may also vote for "No Lynch". If at the end of Day (next Wednesday at noon, Pacific Time) "No Lynch" has the most votes, or if there's a tie, there will be no lynch. Otherwise, the highest vote-getter gets strung up.

If you have a Day Power, please PM or email me the target of your Power before the end of the Day (else you won't use your Powr). At the end of the Day, I will PM you back the results.

Remember, please send rules questions in a PM or email directly to me.

Edit: you can check the most recent vote count by clicking the Players link in my sig (see post at top of the page).

[ShadowFacts]

The Day would normally start at noon Pacific Time, when I reveal the results of the previous Night. But since this is the first Day, there's nothing to reveal, so feel free to start.

Ha ha! First real game post!

Um.

Hmmm.

I guess I don't really have a lot to say.

*lowers head and kicks dirt*

[Hal Briston]

*lowers head and kicks dirt* :eek:
Biggest scum tell in the book!!

[Drain Bead]

:eek:
Biggest scum tell in the book!!

Vote Hal Briston because he dresses his kid up in a Giants cheerleading uniform. The Giants don't even HAVE cheerleaders, do they?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Noon Pacific Time? But it's noon out here on the important coast already!

[Pleonast]

Vote Hal Briston because he dresses his kid up in a Giants cheerleading uniform. The Giants don't even HAVE cheerleaders, do they?(Color removed.) Tsk, tsk, read my directions for voting again.

[Hal Briston]

Vote Hal Briston because he dresses his kid up in a Giants cheerleading uniform. The Giants don't even HAVE cheerleaders, do they?Hey! Just because they Giants don't need to go the opponent-distracting T&A route in order to win ball games has no bearing on whether or not they can put out a line of clothing for little girls to show their support!

And besides, your vote is based on a factual inaccuracy -- it was my wife who bought said outfit (http://www.sirblah.com/photo/view.php?album=John%20And%20Christines%20BBQ%2007&mode=&pic=BBQ07_15.JPG&picindex=14) and dressed my daughter up in it.

So, to sum up: Pppffftttthhh!!


On preview: Ha ha! Modslapped! :p

[MHaye]

Climbs on soapbox, switches on megaphone.*

So another new game, another new day.

Remember folks, not to bring grudges into the game. Just because someone was scum in a previous game and got you killed off, doesn't mean they'll be scum in this game. Getting them lynched in revenge may hurt you.

*Switches off megaphone, climbs off soapbox.*

[DiggitCamara]

Climbs on soapbox, switches on megaphone.*

So another new game, another new day.

Remember folks, not to bring grudges into the game. Just because someone was scum in a previous game and got you killed off, doesn't mean they'll be scum in this game. Getting them lynched in revenge may hurt you.

*Switches off megaphone, climbs off soapbox.*
Now you tell me.


(Hint: Look at my actions in the last game on this board, as the Crusader)... and I didn't even get to play against that dude in his role as scum...

[HazelNutCoffee]

Okay, that cheerleading outfit is too cute to be anything other than a scum tell.

[Freudian Slit]

She looks adorable, the little lamb.

[ShadowFacts]

Climbs on soapbox, switches on megaphone.*

So another new game, another new day.

Remember folks, not to bring grudges into the game. Just because someone was scum in a previous game and got you killed off, doesn't mean they'll be scum in this game. Getting them lynched in revenge may hurt you.

*Switches off megaphone, climbs off soapbox.*

Vote MHaye
...for telling other players how to play!

(Actually, that's good advice IMO but we've got to start this thing rolling somehow...)

[Drain Bead]

Really, I was just looking for an excuse for him to post it again.

[Freudian Slit]

So...we starting?

[sachertorte]

Hello. Welcome to the Day One is difficult to start phase of the game.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Well, I'm going to FOS Hal for posting that cute pic. He's trying to distract us from something, I know it!

[Rysto]

Ok, we need to get something going here. Random.org says:

Vote amrussell

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

vote: Zoggie

for bringing up the tired old Hal=ovinaphile joke.

[Idle Thoughts]

A new game.

Now, with this one, where EVERYONE has a role of some sort (and we know what the roles actually ARE, unlike in a closed game), what would prevent a mass role claim? Or am I missing something? Wouldn't a mass roleclaim screw scum over?

Please note: I'm not proposing we do this, I'm just asking what would stop that from working or being successful--lest people start jumping my freaking back for "oh think we should mass roleclaim, ehhhhh, Idle Thoughts?"

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

A new game.

Now, with this one, where EVERYONE has a role of some sort (and we know what the roles actually ARE, unlike in a closed game), what would prevent a mass role claim? Or am I missing something? Wouldn't a mass roleclaim screw scum over?

Please note: I'm not proposing we do this, I'm just asking what would stop that from working or being successful--lest people start jumping my freaking back for "oh think we should mass roleclaim, ehhhhh, Idle Thoughts?"

And here I was thinking how special I was, not having a plan vanilla role in either of my first two games! :cool:

I'm thinking that the problem with it is that the scum just wouldn't say anything, and just wouldn't go along with the entire idea. Because that's a possibility, town power (well, powerfuller) roles might not go along, for fear of giving the Vampire knowledge of who the Vig is, or the werewolves knowledge of where the witches, seer or detective are.

[Freudian Slit]

vote: Zoggie

for bringing up the tired old Hal=ovinaphile joke.
I resent that!

Hal's daughter really was adorable. Much in the fashion of a cute barnyard lamb.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I resent that!

Hal's daughter really was adorable. Much in the fashion of a cute barnyard lamb.

Would it be better if I said I was voting for you because of a deeply ingrained fear of the letter 'Z'?

[Freudian Slit]

Would it be better if I said I was voting for you because of a deeply ingrained fear of the letter 'Z'?
That works. So how does this mass role claim work? Is it a sort of, "I am Spartacus" thing?

[Rysto]

Mass role claim? We're not doing a mass role claim! That'd get the Seer, Vicar, Detective and Witches killed right away, and then we wouldn't stand a chance.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Mass role claim? We're not doing a mass role claim! That'd get the Seer, Vicar, Detective and Witches killed right away, and then we wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm fine with getting the Seer, Vicar, Detective and Witches killed as long as all the scum were honest about their claims. :cool:

[Idle Thoughts]

But it wouldn't matter then because town would have won in a few Days since the only ones who wouldn't be okay with mass claiming would be scum (I'd think).

I'm just saying, say everyone role claimed what they are. Obviously Town would all tell the truth. The only ones with stuff to hide would be: The Cabal, the Necromancer, the Vampire, and the Werewolves. But if everyone was mass roleclaiming, they'd have to go along with it..and thus, they'd have to lie (I.E. roleclaim something that either was already roleclaimed or that someone else really has but hasn't roleclaimed yet).

Even in the case where two people are claiming the same thing, though, Town would eventually find out who was lying and who wasn't. It would only take a few extra Days. *shrug*

Anyway, it would work out, by how I see it. I'm asking what's to prevent it from happening or making it unsuccessful? I'm not saying it should happen, but someone tell me, if they can see it, how it would be uncuccessful or not work if Town were honest about all their roles and came out with it?

Does anyone get what I'm saying?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

But it wouldn't matter then because town would have won in a few Days since the only ones who wouldn't be okay with mass claiming would be scum (I'd think).

I'm just saying, say everyone role claimed what they are. Obviously Town would all tell the truth. The only ones with stuff to hide would be: The Cabal, the Necromancer, the Vampire, and the Werewolves. But if everyone was mass roleclaiming, they'd have to go along with it..and thus, they'd have to lie (I.E. roleclaim something that either was already roleclaimed or that someone else really has but hasn't roleclaimed yet).

Even in the case where two people are claiming the same thing, though, Town would eventually find out who was lying and who wasn't. It would only take a few extra Days. *shrug*

Anyway, it would work out, by how I see it. I'm asking what's to prevent it from happening or making it unsuccessful? I'm not saying it should happen, but someone tell me, if they can see it, how it would be uncuccessful or not work if Town were honest about all their roles and came out with it?

Does anyone get what I'm saying?

I get it, but I don't think it'll necessarily work in our situation: the scum get two kills (wolves and Vampire) a night to knock off power roles while we try to ascertain who's telling the truth and who's not. Some of the scum will doubtlessly claim freemason, and it might take four or five nights for the masons to sort out amongst themselves who all of the masons really are. During that time, the Cabal blocks the claimed-witches from protecting anyone, so the town loses number not only to mislynching the wrong half of a claimed role, but to night kills. And, if any of the scum make a claim for a role that isn't assigned to anyone else (Pleo said that some roles wouldn't be used), then the town would finally get done with its bloody reign of murder, only to discover a Vampire or the Omega Wolf or the Necromancer still in their midst, with a lot of the protective roles killed off.

Depending on the set-up in the beginning, it might work. But we don't know how many cabalists or werewolves there are in the game... there might be enough that a mass roleclaim might lose the game from the getgo.

[Hockey Monkey]

Off and running already are we? I'm intriqued by the mass-role claim question, but personally don't think the game will be much fun if it happens. Everybody has something to do covertly that will affect the game, and not all the roles that Pleonast put in the rules are present. I did some rough calculations...there are 22 of us, and 18 named roles...some of which we already know will number more than 1 (like the Witches, Cabalists, Werewolves, and Vampires). Figuring out how to best work together to abolish the scum factions, I think, is going to be the most important and most fun part of this game.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

some of which we already know will number more than 1 (like the Witches, Cabalists, Werewolves, and Vampires)

I think (and hope) there's only one Vampire. There are also multiple masons.

[Freudian Slit]

I think (and hope) there's only one Vampire. There are also multiple masons.
Unless Hockey Monkey knows something that the rest of us don't...

[DiggitCamara]

I get it, but I don't think it'll necessarily work in our situation: the scum get two kills (wolves and Vampire) a night to knock off power roles while we try to ascertain who's telling the truth and who's not. Some of the scum will doubtlessly claim freemason, and it might take four or five nights for the masons to sort out amongst themselves who all of the masons really are. During that time, the Cabal blocks the claimed-witches from protecting anyone, so the town loses number not only to mislynching the wrong half of a claimed role, but to night kills. And, if any of the scum make a claim for a role that isn't assigned to anyone else (Pleo said that some roles wouldn't be used), then the town would finally get done with its bloody reign of murder, only to discover a Vampire or the Omega Wolf or the Necromancer still in their midst, with a lot of the protective roles killed off.

Depending on the set-up in the beginning, it might work. But we don't know how many cabalists or werewolves there are in the game... there might be enough that a mass roleclaim might lose the game from the getgo.
Not only that, but we don't actually know what roles are in, nor how many of those roles that are present are there:


Always, watch out for false Role claims. Everyone has a Role, but many Roles will be unused. Add to this the fact that false claims will take a Day or more to sort out, because of the delayed reveal of information. You will have to judge the truth each claim.


... and, like Pleonast pointed out, the information about anyone who dies is actually delayed.

And add to that that there is (probably) a Necromancer, who'll really profit by a mass claim (he'll hide somewhere and use the carnage to multiply his zombies)...

[Kat]

Okay, just to get this out of the way:
Vote MadtheSwine

There. Now I shouldn't die right away.

[Drain Bead]

Just so you guys know, I'm going to be gone until Tuesday evening. I'll have internet access, but will be relatively busy. I'll do my best to check in once a RL day, but I can't promise anything. After that, I'm here for the duration.

[ShadowFacts]

Anyway, it would work out, by how I see it. I'm asking what's to prevent it from happening or making it unsuccessful? I'm not saying it should happen, but someone tell me, if they can see it, how it would be uncuccessful or not work if Town were honest about all their roles and came out with it?

Well, presumably the scum would just false roleclaim, right? Then we'd have a whole group of people all claiming to be town with no quick way to verify anything (which is essentially what we have right now at the start of the game). Except if the Town are honest, the scum will know exactly what role everyone is. How does that help the town?

I'm not seeing the merit in this plan.

[Hockey Monkey]

Unless Hockey Monkey knows something that the rest of us don't...

Since Pleonast referred to Vampires in the plural several times in the role list, I guess I parsed that as more than one in the game. And yes I did forget the Freemasons in that list. I'll hope there is only one, but I left the possibility for 2-3 in my notes. Trying to outguess the Mod usually leads to heartache, but I like to start working with a worst case scenario. With everyone being a power role, I would think that there are more scum than normal in this game, divided among the factions, in order to balance.

[nesta]

Well, presumably the scum would just false roleclaim, right? Then we'd have a whole group of people all claiming to be town with no quick way to verify anything (which is essentially what we have right now at the start of the game). Except if the Town are honest, the scum will know exactly what role everyone is. How does that help the town?

I'm not seeing the merit in this plan.
This was discussed at some length during Day 1 in the Firefly game being played on the other board. I would say go read it but Day 1 was very long and was quite confusing. If you like confusion, though, it's looking to be an interesting game.

The short of it is in games where everyone has a role a mass-claim can be game breaking and is a short path to victory. The scum must role-claim town roles, and of course will be counter-claimed by the real holders of those roles. I haven't done the math, but since scum must be outnumbered in the beginning if we just go down the list of overlapping claims and lynch one-for-one, and many times the first lynch will be scum so the second won't be necessary, we'll win.

The possibility that roles weren't included does throw a little bit of a monkey wrench into the plan, though. If scum claims one of the roles not in the game they have a high chance of surviving to the end-game since no one would counter-claim.

I haven't given it enough thought to be sure, but in this game I think a mass-claim could be a winning strategy even with the missing roles. It does seem a bit risky, though.

Of course, this game started after the Firefly game did and I think Pleonast might have been following that game and would have seen the mass-claim strategy and could have done something in this game to counter that. Other than secret roles or switching things around a little I'm not sure how, but it's a possibility.

That said, even if I was very convinced that it would be a game winning strategy, I wouldn't want to do it this early. I signed up for this game hoping it would be a very interesting game, not a series of predetermined lynches. Also, Pleonast obviously put a lot of work into the game design (and hopefully balance), and I feel like it's a bit against the spirit of this particular game to try to break it too soon. We should keep some mass-claims in mind later in the game, though, like if the masons or witches can turn things mid/late-game by narrowing down the possibilities by all claiming and verifying each other, or even a total mass-claim if it comes down to it.

[Idle Thoughts]

Thank you for saying what I probably would have taken 200 pages to say, nesta.

[Stanislaus]

Ok, we need to get something going here. Random.org says:

Vote amrussell
Oh sure, if you're going to be believe everything you read on the internet...

Regarding mass-role claims: it crossed my mind as well, but I'm just not sure it'll work. Between the potential missing roles, the delay in verification, the 2:1 scum kill rate, the zombie problem and the chances of town error, victory won't exactly be written in stone.

Besides which, there are quite a few town roles who are much stronger hidden. Not just the obvious investigator/doctor types, but others who essentially function as tripwires to reveal scum. Keeping these roles behind a veil of ignorance will create fear, uncertainty and doubt in the cold, black hearts of the scum, and that can only be a good thing.

There's a sketchy argument for Freemasons role-claiming. They're only going to be useful once they've found each other and Day claims could be confirmed by the group at Night. But either two of them would wake up dead or we'd tie up the whole town's protecting/resurrecting capability, giving the scum a free rein to go after the rest of the town. It's certainly not worth exchanging a Witch or a Detective for a Freemason, so I'd suggest that, right now, a role claim is a bad idea even for the most expendable and confirmable players.

[Fretful Porpentine]

Besides which, there are quite a few town roles who are much stronger hidden. Not just the obvious investigator/doctor types, but others who essentially function as tripwires to reveal scum. Keeping these roles behind a veil of ignorance will create fear, uncertainty and doubt in the cold, black hearts of the scum, and that can only be a good thing.
I haven't completely wrapped my head around the rules of this game (and probably won't have for a while), but I think you're right. The thing about this game is that information is currency -- the only reason why scum can win at all, given their relatively low numbers, is that they have more information than town. In the case of a mass role-claim, they STILL have more information than town, perhaps by an even larger margin, since they know which role-claims are true and which are false, and they can assume that any unknown claiming a major power role really is that power role. In general, the town's best bet is to keep quiet and keep that information gap as small as possible, until such time as it becomes necessary to reveal some of the roles.

[One And Only Wanderers]

Climbs on soapbox, switches on megaphone.*

So another new game, another new day.

Remember folks, not to bring grudges into the game. Just because someone was scum in a previous game and got you killed off, doesn't mean they'll be scum in this game. Getting them lynched in revenge may hurt you.

*Switches off megaphone, climbs off soapbox.*

so to paraphrase, you were scum in a previous game and you don't want people to get revenge on you now you're scum in this game?

vote MHaye

[sachertorte]

I'm a bit late to the mass role claim discussion. I'll just add a few notes on why I think a mass role claim would be bad. Pleonast said that he got help on this game from mtgman. In a previous game mtgman specifically mentioned something about game design having to take into account the effect of a mass roleclaim. I can't believe that mtgman would have overlooked any mass claim weakness. Basically, There doesn't seem to be anything prohibitive of a mass roleclaim (though the slow reveal of information is probably enough to break it in and of itself), but I'm pretty sure that there is something preventing it from working, even if we don't know what it is. In other words, even if we work out a feasible strategy to do a roleclaim, there is probably something hidden that prevents such a strategy from working.

[ShadowFacts]

I'm a bit late to the mass role claim discussion. I'll just add a few notes on why I think a mass role claim would be bad. Pleonast said that he got help on this game from mtgman. In a previous game mtgman specifically mentioned something about game design having to take into account the effect of a mass roleclaim. I can't believe that mtgman would have overlooked any mass claim weakness. Basically, There doesn't seem to be anything prohibitive of a mass roleclaim (though the slow reveal of information is probably enough to break it in and of itself), but I'm pretty sure that there is something preventing it from working, even if we don't know what it is. In other words, even if we work out a feasible strategy to do a roleclaim, there is probably something hidden that prevents such a strategy from working.

And even if a mass role claim was a dead solid lock to win, what fun is that? I mean, I want to win and all, but I want to win by playing, not by breaking the game.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I'm not very comfortable with meta-gaming, but I confess I'm rather skeptical of the mass role-claim idea. It just sounds like it would be chaos. Scum are going to lie either way. Townies telling the truth would just benefit the scum; townies lying would confuse the scum, true, but they'd also confuse each other. Others have already mentioned that the time it would take to verify claims might be enough time for the scum to get the upper hand. I don't see much merit in this plan.

[Freudian Slit]

Since Pleonast referred to Vampires in the plural several times in the role list, I guess I parsed that as more than one in the game. And yes I did forget the Freemasons in that list. I'll hope there is only one, but I left the possibility for 2-3 in my notes. Trying to outguess the Mod usually leads to heartache, but I like to start working with a worst case scenario. With everyone being a power role, I would think that there are more scum than normal in this game, divided among the factions, in order to balance.
Oh, damn. You're right. Sorry...I only reread the OP when trying to prepare.

I'll agree with the rest--mass role claim doesn't seem too sporting. Sort of like shooting fish in a barrel. Or making teenagers depressed.

[ShadowFacts]

Wow, it's quiet in here. Compared to the first days of the other Dope Mafia games, it's positively dead. Seems like there may be a lot of hanging back, trying to blend in with the woodwork.

I wonder if, since everyone has a role and there are no plain ol' townies, if people are more nervous about speaking up and drawing attention to themselves? If so, that's going to make an already challenging Day One "what the hell do we do" scenario even worse...

[Kat]

I think it's because Roosh isn't playing. ;)

[Hockey Monkey]

Yeah, if Roosh were here, we'd be at 600 posts by now. :D

[sachertorte]

I'm thinking the slow start is probably due to the weekend. Our deadline is Wednesday, so nothing to panic about yet, but in an effort to get a conversation going I'll write up a few thoughts on the multi-faction aspect of this game. While we have seen multiple win conditions before (SK, subset-win conditions), I think this is the first game with true multiple factions.
The Werewolves are pretty much self explanatory as they are the 'typical' scum we've played with before.
The Cabalists pretty much falls into a similar category as the non-believers of M5, except the win conditions are exclusive. I think it is better this way as we won't have to worry about conflicting ideas of what constitutes a worthwhile win and the loyalty conflicts that arise (Hockey Monkey and Hal, I'm looking at you).
The Undead is the group I'm most worried about since they look quite powerful and we've never interacted with this type of scum before. They both kill and increase in number each night. This is much worse than an SK as the win condition is both attainable and occurs earlier than the SK win condition. At least the werewolves want the undead removed ASAP as well.

[Rysto]

Unless Hockey Monkey knows something that the rest of us don't...
Undead don't know which other players are Undead, so Hockey Monkey couldn't know anything special.


I think this game might be having trouble getting started because all the Townspeople have no information at all, so they're hesitant to do anything. Early in this game, we're going to have a real problem getting information, because we don't even know the alignment of the player who've been killed. It won't be until the start of the Third Day that we, the Town, will have any information from our first lynch. Now, at least we have some investigative roles who will have some information on Day Two but they obviously have to be quite circumspect with how they use that information.

This means that the only information that we're going to have for quite some time now will come out of our Daytime discussions. Therefore, it's imperative that we all generate a lot of discussion now, so we have something to work with in Day Two. Lurking is absolutely not acceptable. Post strategies. If you're newer to the game and have questions, ask them(just don't ask questions that might reveal your role).


Some random strategy thoughts(most of these are basic Mafia stuff, but it's good to make this clear to any new players):

Townies with investigative roles need to be breadcrumbing their results. I realize that's elementary for experienced players, but just in case we have some new players with those roles I want to make that very explicit. The investigative roles are the Seer, the Detective and the Witches. Breadcrumbing refers to leave subtle hints in some of your posts to give us the results of your investigations. Subtle is the key word here. What you want is to post something innocuous about the target of your investigation that indicates their alignment(ie whether they're scum or Town). The idea is that if you get killed before your role-claim the Town can look back through your posts and find the breadcrumbs, so we know the results of your investigations. It should really only be obvious that a post is a breadcrumb after your role is revealed. Remember that breadcrumbing can reveal you to the scum who will promptly kill you, so be subtle about things. I don't say this to discourage from breadcrumbing, though, because it's critical that you do so. If you ever have to role-claim you had better be able to point to posts containing breadcrumbs or the Town is likely to conclude that you're scum making a false claim. I say all this now so that scum can't make a false Cop claim and then say they didn't breadcrumb because they didn't know that they were supposed to. The Coroner does not need to breadcrumb. The Town will know everything that the Coroner does in a short amount of time; the risk of breadcrumbing isn't worth it.

Freemasons are unlynchable. Freemason is basically the only verifiable role-claim(Witch is technically verifiable but trading a Witch for scum is absolutely not worth it). If there's a false Freemason role claim exactly one Freemason should counter-claim(this, of course, will take one night to verify). Investigative roles probably shouldn't bother investigator the claimant unless we're worried that there are no more Freemasons(but thanks to the Omega Wolf, that's not 100% guaranteed). Any other role-claim has to be decided based on the facts. People should be wary of jumping in a counter-claiming -- for one, there's no guarantee that there isn't more than one of any role!(in particular, I believe that Pleonast has made repeated references to Detectives so if you're a Detective please keep that in mind).

The Vigilante, I think it goes without saying, needs to be very careful about using his power. If he kills Town he's just killed off 2 Townies(I remember in Mafia II, our Vig killed the Detective on the second night, which was a huge blow). Even if he successfully kills scum he's gone and made life harder on the Vicar. I'm not sure what the best way to use the Vig is, but he needs to be very sure.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

The Undead is the group I'm most worried about since they look quite powerful and we've never interacted with this type of scum before. They both kill and increase in number each night. This is much worse than an SK as the win condition is both attainable and occurs earlier than the SK win condition. At least the werewolves want the undead removed ASAP as well.

I don't think the werewolves will actually care much about the undead. The necromancer won't really play any differently from a vanilla townie in the daytime, as he won't care where his bodies come from. While he poses the greatest danger to the wolves (and everyone, I think), he'll be very difficult to sniff out.
The vampire, on the other hand, in the absence of the necro, is actually likely to be a boon to the wolves. The more townie deaths, the better it is for them.

[Hockey Monkey]

I'll just post this in case anyone has missed it. Pleonast has some very good strategy hints in here for the various roles. He reiterates that there are several unused roles.

Pleonast's Conspiracy Strategy Hints
General
Every Role has some special ability. Use your ability wisely to help your Side. But some Roles are more valuable than others. Be prepared to sacrifice yourself for the good of your Side. You'll win if your Side wins, even if you're dead.

Keep in mind that not all Roles will appear in the game, but there may be more than one of a given Role. This affects false claims significantly.

I've put together these strategy hints as a guide to help the Players, especially those new to this sort of game.

Town
The Town needs to eliminate all Wolves and Undead. Your most important Roles are the Witches, Detectives, and Seers, who can investigate other Players. Do what you can to protect them.

Your highest priority is probably finding the Vampires. They make the Vicar's job harder by increasing the number of bodies. They also make the Detective's job harder by confounding his detection of Wolves. The next highest priority are the Necromancers. The army of Zombies will be near to overwhelming by mid-game, unless the Vicar was lucky. Consider postponing lynches if it's close; the Wolves may do the same.

Once the Undead are eliminated, if any Detectives are still alive, you'll have an easy time eliminating the Wolves. But, if you've lost more than one Witch, you'll have to eliminate the Cabal before finishing off the Wolves and Undead. Until that point, they're mostly helping you by trying to lynch the Wolves and Undead as well. Keep track of who you think they are, but lynches may be better spent on others.

Always, watch out for false Role claims. Everyone has a Role, but many Roles will be unused. Add to this the fact that false claims will take a Day or more to sort out, because of the delayed reveal of information. You will have to judge the truth each claim.

Because voting ties result in no lynch, beware of last-minute tying votes.

Coroner: Your information will become public soon, so your Role is not as powerful as others. But it is easy for others to verify your Role claim, and you are not a primary target of scum. Try to use your information to actively guide others.
Detective: You have the best Wolf-finding Role and are their primary target. You'll have to walk a fine line by giving breadcrumbs for your discoveries without revealing yourself. If you can survive until the Vampires are eliminated, you can lead a quick elimination of the Wolves.
Freemason: Your job is to build a network of trust. Watch who your fellow Freemasons are suspicious of and not. You'll also be helpful in detecting the Omega Wolf. You are also the most expendable members of the Town.
Magician: You have a mildly useful Role. Each Night, do your best to target scum, and hope for the best. Even if your victim is Town, at least you'll know the name of the attacker.
Scotsman: Your power allows you to play aggressively. Once you have survived an attack, you'll be confirmed Town. Use this to your advantage.
Seer: The most powerful investigative Role. Drop breadcrumbs for your information, and try to stay alive.
Vicar: You're the only thing slowing down the Necromancers. If the Undead are close to winning, it may be useful to publicly Role claim, since the Wolves will not want to kill you. But that will also increase the odds that they find a more powerful Role. Don't forget you can bless longer-dead corpses and that they could be animated.
Vigilante: you bet your life each time you use your power. Choose wisely! You may want to wait until you have more information before killing.
Warlock: You have a mildly useful Role. You'll want to enchant yourself until you have a better idea who is more important.
Witch: The three Witches are collectively the most important Town Roles. Make good use of your Nightly conversations. You'll want to protect one of yourselves until you find a Detective or Seer. Be careful leaving breadcrumbs or having voting patterns--it's very bad to lose a Witch.
Witchdoctor: A very useful Role. Protect yourself until you know better.

Wolf
The Wolves need to reduce everyone else's numbers. This will mean eliminating the Necromancers before too many Zombies have been animated. But your highest priority is killing Detectives. Nearly as important are preserving the Vampires, who confound the Detectives. Try to keep them from being lynched (you can't Night kill them anyway). Keeping the Vicar alive is helpful as well.




Your best killing strategy is using the same Wolf to kill until he is lynched. That will reduce your exposure to the Detectives. Once the Detectives are gone, you only need to keep killing until you win. While killing Cabal helps with this, finding the Witches and Seers is more important.



Be prepared to make false Role claims. Many Roles are unused; if you choose wisely, your claim may go uncountered.





Alpha Wolf: Lead the pack wisely, but you are replaceable.

Omega Wolf: You can hide well, but the Freemasons can call your bluff.
Werewolf: Do your best to stay unlynched. Patient is the game for Wolves.


Undead
You don't know each others' identities, so you can't plan like the other scum Sides. Avoiding the lynch is your primary strategy. It's easiest for the Undead to win by creating many Zombies, but a lone Vampire can still win.



Do what you can to stay alive. False claims are very helpful.



Necromancer: Slow and steady. Although your best odds are trying to animate a recent corpse (smaller chance it's been blessed), you can try the longer-dead ones as well.
Vampire: Too bad if you accidentally kill a Necromancer. Try to find Seers and Witches. The Wolves don't want to kill you; you may want to give them a few hints, but avoid the lynch as long as possible.
Zombie: Demand "Brains!" at Night. Otherwise, you're out of the game.


Cabal
It's just the few of you. You can secretly speak freely among yourselves. Strategize away! Although you need to eventually eliminate the Wolves and Undead, your primary targets are the Witches. You need to guide or somehow increase the odds that the other scum kill the Witches for you. Use your blocking power carefully.

Plan your false claims wisely. You may postpone a lynching for a while, since false claims are tricky to uncover.


This info is in Pleonast's sig line for future reference. I don't think we need to discuss in detail which roles we think are in the game and which we think are not, but I do think it's a good idea for us to make personal notes to that effect. Scum are going to false claim roles that they think aren't in the game to minimize counter-claims by the real role. At that time, if it's a role I don't think is in the game, I can call them on it.

Getting the role information two Days after a death is going to bring an entirely new dynamic to the game.

The Witchdoctor should probably self protect until we have information from our investigative roles. The Vigilante and the Warlock will have to be extremely careful in their choices. Extremely. Keeping our Witches alive is paramount. As long as all three are alive they can protect AND investigate. It's not clear from the rules (unless I missed it) if they can elect to protect one of their own. One thing we have to keep in mind about this new style of game is the No-Lynch. When everyone is a power-role, no one is really expendable. Mis-lynches will be a heavy blow.

I don't have any other thoughts on other roles right now. (Well, I do, but this post is running long, and I have to work tomorrow :( .) I've been over the roles and rules several times and I'm having a blast trying to figure out the if A does X, then C is screwed, but.....scenarios. It's fun, but I think my head is about to asplode.

[Rysto]

Getting the role information two Days after a death is going to bring an entirely new dynamic to the game.
I don't think that the role information is all that important. It's far more important to know the dead player's alignment than their exact role.

One thing we have to keep in mind about this new style of game is the No-Lynch. When everyone is a power-role, no one is really expendable. Mis-lynches will be a heavy blow.
We all have power roles, but not all power roles are created equal. The no lynch option is not a good one for the Town. The town has two sources of information: the lynch and the investigative roles. We can't forgo one of our most important sources of information except in a dire emergency(ie the Undead on the verge of victory).

[Idle Thoughts]

Wow, it's quiet in here. Compared to the first days of the other Dope Mafia games, it's positively dead. Seems like there may be a lot of hanging back, trying to blend in with the woodwork.

I wonder if, since everyone has a role and there are no plain ol' townies, if people are more nervous about speaking up and drawing attention to themselves? If so, that's going to make an already challenging Day One "what the hell do we do" scenario even worse...

Plus, it's the weekend. I've found weekends to be very slow for games/posts.

Ah, I see sach has also pointed this out. That'll teach me to read the whole thing THEN reply rather than compose replies as I go along, post by post.

It's GREAT not having a "majority needed" rule, though.

[Rysto]

It's GREAT not having a "majority needed" rule, though.
Given the amount of scum in this game -- and I would not be surprised if the scum make up 50% or more of the players -- I think a majority needed rule could probably break the game.

The fact that there is probably so much scum is another reason, IMO, why the no lynch option is a bad one for the town. I think that we're more likely to hit scum than Town. On the other hand, the fact that there is so much scum means that the scum will have an easier time targeting Town in lynches. But then, only the Wolves and Cabal can organize and none of the scum factions know who's in the other factions, so they can still end up ganging up on scum anyway. And of course, any faction can't be too obvious about ganging up on a single player.

In any case, we need information and only the lynch can provide us with it at the moment. The investigators won't be publicly sharing their information until their hand is forced, so we certainly can't depend on them for anything any time soon. They can of course try and be subtle about it and get the town to lynch confirmed scum, but they'll find it quite hard to build a case against known scum if there's no voting record to look at -- not to mention it would look quite suspicious to the scum if a Townie all of a sudden change from voting No Lynch to trying to scum lynched. No Lynch is a bad idea.

[Freudian Slit]

Plus, it's the weekend. I've found weekends to be very slow for games/posts.

Ah, I see sach has also pointed this out. That'll teach me to read the whole thing THEN reply rather than compose replies as I go along, post by post.

It's GREAT not having a "majority needed" rule, though.
What exactly is a majority needed rule? I've looked through the thread, but I can't find anything about it, and this is my first game.

[Rysto]

What exactly is a majority needed rule? I've looked through the thread, but I can't find anything about it, and this is my first game.
I believe that a majority needed rule -- which we are NOT using this game -- says that a majority of the Town is needed to sustain a lynch. In other words, 50% or more of the town must vote for a player for that player to be lynched. If the votes are something like:

Player A 45%
Player B 35%
Player C 30%

then no lynch will occur.

Now, we aren't using any rule like this, so just forget we brought it up.

[Hockey Monkey]

I don't think that the role information is all that important. It's far more important to know the dead player's alignment than their exact role.

What I meant by "role information" was the full disclosure. We find out who was killed or lynched first, then the next day what their role/alignment is. In this game the knowing the role will give the alignment, no? There is no recruiting role...not in the traditional sense. The Necromancer can create Zombies, but they don't contribute to the game anymore and they can't be lynched or killed again. If I have that wrong, please correct me.


We all have power roles, but not all power roles are created equal. The no lynch option is not a good one for the Town. The town has two sources of information: the lynch and the investigative roles. We can't forgo one of our most important sources of information except in a dire emergency(ie the Undead on the verge of victory). This is one of the situations I was alluding to. I do think some situations may arise in this game in which a No-Lynch could be the best option, but it's one of those play-it-by-ear kind of things. I am generally not in favor of the No-Lynch, but this is a different kind of game, and I want to be open to new kinds of strategy. So I'm not going to dismiss it out of hand as always bad in this game. It may be something that we have to use. And that's all I'm pointing out right now. Don't think for a minute that I am suggesting it NOW.

[Rysto]

What I meant by "role information" was the full disclosure. We find out who was killed or lynched first, then the next day what their role/alignment is. In this game the knowing the role will give the alignment, no? There is no recruiting role...not in the traditional sense. The Necromancer can create Zombies, but they don't contribute to the game anymore and they can't be lynched or killed again. If I have that wrong, please correct me.
Yes, but we know the alignment one day before we know the exact role.

[Rysto]

I misread your post. We find out the alignment one Day after death, and the role the next Day.

Pleonast, I suppose we have the usually prohibition against editing posts?

[Hockey Monkey]

Given the amount of scum in this game -- and I would not be surprised if the scum make up 50% or more of the players -- I think a majority needed rule could probably break the game.

The fact that there is probably so much scum is another reason, IMO, why the no lynch option is a bad one for the town. I think that we're more likely to hit scum than Town. On the other hand, the fact that there is so much scum means that the scum will have an easier time targeting Town in lynches. But then, only the Wolves and Cabal can organize and none of the scum factions know who's in the other factions, so they can still end up ganging up on scum anyway. And of course, any faction can't be too obvious about ganging up on a single player.

In any case, we need information and only the lynch can provide us with it at the moment. The investigators won't be publicly sharing their information until their hand is forced, so we certainly can't depend on them for anything any time soon. They can of course try and be subtle about it and get the town to lynch confirmed scum, but they'll find it quite hard to build a case against known scum if there's no voting record to look at -- not to mention it would look quite suspicious to the scum if a Townie all of a sudden change from voting No Lynch to trying to scum lynched. No Lynch is a bad idea.

I see your point here.

I have considered that there will be more scum, but >50%? I was thinking more like 35-40%, rather than the standard of approximately 25%. If there are more than 50% scum faction do we even stand a chance?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I believe that a majority needed rule -- which we are NOT using this game -- says that a majority of the Town is needed to sustain a lynch. In other words, 50% or more of the town must vote for a player for that player to be lynched. If the votes are something like:

Player A 45%
Player B 35%
Player C 30%

then no lynch will occur.

Now, we aren't using any rule like this, so just forget we brought it up.


Majority lynch blows horse turds.

[Rysto]

Well, the Cabal counts as scum but they don't get to night kill, so that helps us. Don't forget that the Werewolves and Undead need to kill each other as much as they need to kill Town. We also have lots of investigative roles. At minimum, I'd say one Detective, one Seer plus the Witches. I would not be surprised to discover that there are two Detectives.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well, the Cabal counts as scum but they don't get to night kill, so that helps us. Don't forget that the Werewolves and Undead need to kill each other as much as they need to kill Town. We also have lots of investigative roles. At minimum, I'd say one Detective, one Seer plus the Witches. I would not be surprised to discover that there are two Detectives.

I can't imagine there are multiple Detectives. In essence, if the Detective is still alive when the Vampire is killed, the town has wons there will only be one death each Night, so the Detective will be able to pinpoint a different wolf each Day.

[Rysto]

I'm guessing two Detectives, two Vampires. If there was only one Vampire the Town and Wolves could both choose not to kill anybody until the Vampire was killed, which would screw over the Undead.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I'm guessing two Detectives, two Vampires. If there was only one Vampire the Town and Wolves could both choose not to kill anybody until the Vampire was killed, which would screw over the Undead.

Wow... that's devious. I hadn't thought of that.

Think much on good strategy for the wolves? ::cough::

[Hockey Monkey]

I'm guessing two Detectives, two Vampires. If there was only one Vampire the Town and Wolves could both choose not to kill anybody until the Vampire was killed, which would screw over the Undead.

How would the Vampire get killed if the Town doesn't lynch and the Werewolves don't eat someone? Isn't the Vampire immune to night kills? The only one left to take him out would be the Vigilante and he only kills at night. If there is more than one Vampire do they know each other's identities? If not they could potentially target one another? That would be good. :D So you are right about the town having to lynch. We have to get rid of the Vampire(s) post haste!

I know it's the weekend and all, but we really need some analysis and strategy discussion toDay. Potentially 3 of us will be killed toNight, so post like you might die. There's a good chance you might.

[Rysto]

How would the Vampire get killed if the Town doesn't lynch and the Werewolves don't eat someone? Isn't the Vampire immune to night kills?
The Seer tracks him down and then he gets lynched.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

How would the Vampire get killed if the Town doesn't lynch and the Werewolves don't eat someone? Isn't the Vampire immune to night kills? The only one left to take him out would be the Vigilante and he only kills at night. If there is more than one Vampire do they know each other's identities? If not they could potentially target one another? That would be good. :D So you are right about the town having to lynch. We have to get rid of the Vampire(s) post haste!

I know it's the weekend and all, but we really need some analysis and strategy discussion toDay. Potentially 3 of us will be killed toNight, so post like you might die. There's a good chance you might.

The intro specifically says the Undead don't know each other. I assume the Vig isn't going to kill unless he's -damn- sure of his target, as a miskill loses two players for the Town.
I think Rysto was suggesting that the Werewolves wait until the Town lynches the Vampire, thereby preventing the undead from raising any Zombies, as the Vicar could bless the dead one at a time at that point.

[Rysto]

On the other hand, if there are two Vampires, then the game would only last 6 weeks or so. So maybe I'm wrong. The Wolves might be against the idea of hunting the Vampire, who doesn't hurt them directly, nor giving the Seer and the witches time to investigate people for free.

[Hockey Monkey]

I just had a brainstorm and if I don't write it down, I'll forget it.

Please do not do this unless and until there is discussion about it, it might be a bad idea.

If there is a Scotsman in this game, could he claim now, martyr himself, and come back? Pros: We don't out a major role on Day One, and we don't lose a Town Member. Essentially get a do-over with more information after the Dawn post.

Cons: We don't lynch a scum Day One. Gives scum more info to narrow down their choices for a night kill.

What am I missing?

Again, don't know if this is a good idea or not. I don't usually talk this much on Day One, but I'll say again, this is a different kind of game.


On preview, I see that my other question has been answered. Now that I see the implications...yeah, that is devious. The Undead could potentially sneak up and bite us in the ass come mid-game. Obviously if there are less bodies, there will be less Zombies. And with one kill a night the Vicar could keep up with his blessings. If the Werewolves wait to make a kill until the Vampire is identified and lynched, it could be too late for them to win. The Vampire is going to target Wolves as well as everyone else. If there are 2 Vampires then that stategy would be very bad. The Seer would have to stay alive long enough to identify both of them, whilst the Vamps racked up two kills a night. A risky gambit. After thinking it through, I don't think it would be wise for either the Town or the Wolves to try it.


:eek: I think I just channeled Roosh! I'm going to bed now. Really. Right after I check for new posts.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I really don't think martyring the Scotsman would work, nor would it be a good idea.

The Scotsman is hardy enough to fight off an attack, but I don't know if he's lynch proof.

And we already have Freemasons, which is what essentially the Scotsman becomes after he dies once: just a confirmed townie. If we don't want to kill anyone, let's just no-lynch. In this game of information, with all of these power roles, I might be willing to listen to arguments for it: it'll make the Vicar's job a little easier, the Town has three investigative roles that would get a headstart, and we'd likely have a definitive count on the number of Vampires by the number of bodies that turn up tomorrow morning.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

NETA: On rereading the rules... apparently the Scotsman has a thick neck, too: he can withstand a town lynch. I think the fact that if we don't lynch him, he outs a Vamp or Werewolf makes him much more valuable unlynched. (if we can help it)

[Pleonast]

I misread your post. We find out the alignment one Day after death, and the role the next Day.

Pleonast, I suppose we have the usually prohibition against editing posts?Yes, editing posts is not allowed.

[Pleonast]

Rules Clarification:

If the Vampire is roleblocked one Night and targeted for Nightkill by another faction, will he die or will his attacker die?

Yes, the Vampire can be killed this way. If a Player's Powers are blocked, it includes protective Powers, too. This can affect the Vampire, Omega Wolf, Scotsman, etc.

[sachertorte]

Townies with investigative roles need to be breadcrumbing their results.

I realize this is conventional wisdom, but I would like to add two things.
1) Witches should not breadcrumb. Their information is collective so the risk of losing the information from a night kill is much less than with a solitary investigative role.
2) I've yet to see breadcrumbing used effectively. So far in the games that I have watched, breadcrumbs have not been successfully identified by the town post mortem. Although, I have seen non-breadcrumbs used effectively to accidently lynch scum, so what do I know? I won't say don't breadcrumb, but when the time comes to identify breadcrumbs, I'm going to be skeptical.

Freemasons are unlynchable.
<snip>
I mostly agree, but I think dealing with a mason claim will be more complicated than you state. What you have outlined is a good primer; we can deal with the more complex intracacies when the time arises. You are very correct that investigative roles should not investigate a mason claim and leave that to masons to confirm.

The Vigilante, I think it goes without saying, needs to be very careful about using his power.
Yes. very very careful. Losing two town in this game would be very bad, that is probably 15-20% of the town population right there.

The Wolves might be against the idea of hunting the Vampire, who doesn't hurt them directly, nor giving the Seer and the witches time to investigate people for free.
The Vampire could just as easily kill a Werewolf at night, yes?

If there is a Scotsman in this game, could he claim now, martyr himself, and come back? Pros: We don't out a major role on Day One, and we don't lose a Town Member. Essentially get a do-over with more information after the Dawn post.

What am I missing?

There is no reason for the Scotsman to claim right away. I feel it is better for the Scotsman to stay hidden and hope to get night targetted as that will confirm the Scotsman AND waste a scum kill. No sense in wasting today lynching a townie that is self-confirming anyway.


New thoughts:
I suggest everyone re-read the rules several times during the first two game Days. I just re-read the rules and the following has reshaped my thinking.

- Disclaimer: I'm not advocating a roleclaim. The Coroner has a unique power in that it helps both town and scum. I can see utility in the coroner roleclaiming as that will reveal information earlier and will establish a confirmed townie. Also, I can possibly see scum leaving the coroner alone as it is not a juicy role and supplies information to the scum that is also valuable. The downside is this exposes other roles to greater risk of night kill. On the other other hand, this might also expose scum to greater chance of night kill as well. A Coroner roleclaim essentially changes the ruleset to reveal information as it usually was in previous games.

- The Vicar should obviously bless Today's lynch victim, thus leaving zero dead bodies for the Necromancer on Night One. Therefore, a Day One no-lynch justified by Undead issues is unfounded. The first zombie should not be created until Night Two.

- Due to Pleonast's implementation of a Last In First Out killing policy, the Vig, if deciding to kill at night should make a very strong effort to put in the kill choice as early at night as possible. This won't guarantee anything, but in the off chance that the Vig targets a townie that was about to die by Werewolf or Vampire anyway, we won't lose the Vig too.

- The Witches are a super-mason group, and this worries me quite a bit. I played a mason in M5, and I'm pretty sure our voting record revealed who we were rather quickly. The only difference is identifying typical masons helps scum by identifying who not to kill to get a big power role. In the witches case, they are the big power role. With this in mind, the witches will need to be careful about their voting record. I would go so far as to suggest that they even consider voting for each other in some non-obvious way. (i.e., don't all vote for each other on Day One, or even at all, or... you get the idea) This is risky as it would complicate a witch counterclaim, but as I said, I worry about the effect the vote record has on the witches.

- Wolves can win without killing Undead and Undead can win without killing Wolves. The win conditions are simple majority, not elimination of other factions (although in the case of the wolves gaining a majority equals elimination of the other factions*). Therefore, all the discussion of a Town-Wolf detente to Vampire hunt is moot as wolves don't care if the Vampire lives or dies.
*This statement is mostly true, it would require two vampires and a Vig to offset the power of a wolf majority.

[Stanislaus]

The Scotsman is one of the "tripwire" roles I mentioned earlier. His greatest value to the town lies in being attacked, surviving and naming his attacker. "Coming out" would let the scum avoid him and might provoke a counter role-claim which could be costly to sort out.

Thinking about ramifications of role-claims, I've realised that there's a wider issue we need to sort out, which is co-ordinating our overlapping or complementary roles. For example, the Witches and the Witchdoctor can both offer protection to an outed power-role. However, it would be a waste to have both these powers focused on one player. If we're in a position where we have two outed power-roles, then it will be vital that we're covering both - but we clearly can't have either protective role openly claiming in order to sort it out. I'd suggest that rather than trying to argue it out at the time, we come up with with a fixed rule toDay which all parties can follow.

(Arguably, the Warlock is also a protective role, in that the threat of the killer being struck down the next Night might, depending on numbers, be a big enough deterrent to save a life. However, the Warlock is vulnerable to Vampires, so giving out any information about who he's protecting would be signing his death warrant.)

The second pair of roles which overlap are those of the Vicar and the Witchdoctor. If the Witchdoctor has enchanted a corpse, the Vicar's blessing is wasted. If we've got two corpses and the zombies are mounting up, that could be a real problem. Right now I can't see any way short of a role-claim to resolve that, but it's something to think about.

[MadTheSwine]

Hi Kat, I felt lonely in the other game.

[Pleonast]

Rules Clarification

For the Cabal to win, at least one Cabalist must survive.

[ShadowFacts]

- The Witches are a super-mason group, and this worries me quite a bit. I played a mason in M5, and I'm pretty sure our voting record revealed who we were rather quickly. The only difference is identifying typical masons helps scum by identifying who not to kill to get a big power role. In the witches case, they are the big power role. With this in mind, the witches will need to be careful about their voting record. I would go so far as to suggest that they even consider voting for each other in some non-obvious way. (i.e., don't all vote for each other on Day One, or even at all, or... you get the idea) This is risky as it would complicate a witch counterclaim, but as I said, I worry about the effect the vote record has on the witches.

I agree - the witches must remain secret for the town to have a decent chance to win. Originally, I thought that the Cabal would win even if they were dead and two witches died (assuming, of course, that there are 3 witches, as seems likely), but a Rules review and Pleonast's post above show that at least one Cabalist must live for them to win. But even so, it seems like the Witches are a definite weak point for the town and must be protected, because it essentially adds another win condition if we get down to one witch or less.

[Freudian Slit]

I'm a little confused about the Cabal. They communicate together in their own manner--like over PM? And their mystical powers...are we meant to be in the dark about that?

[Rysto]

The Cabal:

May talk secretly among themselves, Day or Night, whether alive or dead (an offsite forum will be set up for this). As a unanimous group (alive and dead), the Cabal may choose to block the actions of one Player each Night. This will prevent the use of the targeted Player's powers that Night and stop any attacks they may attempt. Witches are immune to being blocked.

[Hockey Monkey]

OK forget what I said about the Scotsman. In the future, I'll have to remind myself that if I have what I think is a "Brilliant" idea at 2:30 in the morning, it probably isn't.

[Idle Thoughts]

What I meant by "role information" was the full disclosure. We find out who was killed or lynched first, then the next day what their role/alignment is.

I thought it was: Someone dies. Next Night we learn their alignment (good or bad). And next Night we learn their role.

I do think some situations may arise in this game in which a No-Lynch could be the best option, but it's one of those play-it-by-ear kind of things.

Same here. I mean one with NO vanilla roles? Just power roles and scum? Yeah, that changes things on the "no-lynch" things a little for me. But only on the first Day.


The Seer tracks him down and then he gets lynched.

But what if the Seer is the first lunched upon by a Vamp?


I just had a brainstorm and if I don't write it down, I'll forget it.

Please do not do this unless and until there is discussion about it, it might be a bad idea.

If there is a Scotsman in this game, could he claim now, martyr himself, and come back? Pros: We don't out a major role on Day One, and we don't lose a Town Member. Essentially get a do-over with more information after the Dawn post.

Cons: We don't lynch a scum Day One. Gives scum more info to narrow down their choices for a night kill.

What am I missing?

Again, don't know if this is a good idea or not. I don't usually talk this much on Day One, but I'll say again, this is a different kind of game.


On preview, I see that my other question has been answered. Now that I see the implications...yeah, that is devious. The Undead could potentially sneak up and bite us in the ass come mid-game. Obviously if there are less bodies, there will be less Zombies. And with one kill a night the Vicar could keep up with his blessings. If the Werewolves wait to make a kill until the Vampire is identified and lynched, it could be too late for them to win. The Vampire is going to target Wolves as well as everyone else. If there are 2 Vampires then that stategy would be very bad. The Seer would have to stay alive long enough to identify both of them, whilst the Vamps racked up two kills a night. A risky gambit. After thinking it through, I don't think it would be wise for either the Town or the Wolves to try it.


:eek: I think I just channeled Roosh! I'm going to bed now. Really. Right after I check for new posts.

I dunno if I follow you here but the question remains, how is anyone sure there ARE those roles in this game?


Anyway, back to reading and observing.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

The second pair of roles which overlap are those of the Vicar and the Witchdoctor. If the Witchdoctor has enchanted a corpse, the Vicar's blessing is wasted. If we've got two corpses and the zombies are mounting up, that could be a real problem. Right now I can't see any way short of a role-claim to resolve that, but it's something to think about.

Perhaps the best way to resolve this (and I'm sure we'll reargue this when we come to it) is for a known townie (confirmed freemason or Scotsman, likely) to just announce "Vicar, bless lynchee, Witchdoc, enchant Vampiree" This, of course, wouldn't work if there were three options for zombification, but if there were only two, it would screw the Necromancer either way.

[One And Only Wanderers]

Perhaps the best way to resolve this (and I'm sure we'll reargue this when we come to it) is for a known townie (confirmed freemason or Scotsman, likely) to just announce "Vicar, bless lynchee, Witchdoc, enchant Vampiree" This, of course, wouldn't work if there were three options for zombification, but if there were only two, it would screw the Necromancer either way.


unless i'm missing something, we don't even need a confirmed town nominator. As long as the corpses are assigned, and there are only 2 of them, it doesn't much matter who assigns them. Or am I mistaken?

[Rysto]

But the Witchdoctor has to enchant people before they get killed, don't they? And I hardly think that the Vampire will be nice enough to announce his targets beforehand.

[MHaye]

But the Witchdoctor has to enchant people before they get killed, don't they? And I hardly think that the Vampire will be nice enough to announce his targets beforehand.Good point.

The Witchdoctor's role :Witchdoctor: each Night may enchant one Player who, if killed that Night, will come back from the dead the morning after the next Night. Each Player may only be saved this way once.The Witchdoctor enchants a player who, at the start of the Night, is alive.

On the other hand, the Vicar's power is a Day action.Vicar: each Day may bless one dead Player, including the Player to be lynched later that Day.The only interaction would be if the Vicar tried to bless a player killed the previous Night while the Witchdoctor's enchantment was on them and waiting to revive them the Morning after.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Okay, I'm having fun metagaming and trying to deconstruct here... but when are we going to get around to throwing around the wild accusations and lynching each other? Shouldn't there be a little more virulence in here?

[Stanislaus]

But the Witchdoctor has to enchant people before they get killed, don't they? And I hardly think that the Vampire will be nice enough to announce his targets beforehand.

Witchdoctor: each Night may enchant one Player who, if killed that Night, will come back from the dead the morning after the next Night. Each Player may only be saved this way once.
Vicar: each Day may bless one dead Player, including the Player to be lynched later that Day. The blessing will fail if the target is under the enchantment of the Witchdoctor. Vicars are immune to attack by Vampires, but will not be aware of being targeted by one.
Necromancer: each Night may attempt to animate a dead Player, no matter how long dead. The attempt fails if the target has been blessed by the Vicar or is under the enchantment of the Witchdoctor. If successful, a new Zombie is created and will be revealed to all. All Zombies are destroyed when their Necromancer master is killed, although this will not be revealed at the time of death.

The problem is for the Vicar to know a) whether a corpse is enchanted and b) which one. Note that the Witchdoctor can only bless Night kills while the Vicar can bless both lynchees and Night kills. Essentially, the Vicar is playing guessing games against the Necromancer with up to three corpses, with the Witchdoctor potentially helping out but also generally confounding the intentions of all scum.

To move somewhat into the concrete: toDay, the Vicar will bless toDay's lynchee. toMorrow, he will have possibly two corpses plus toMorrow's lynchee to deal with. toNight, the Witchdoctor will enchant one person (presumably himself). If that person is killed, the Vicar needs to avoid blessing that corpse. If not, the Vicar has a free hand and the Necromancer has two chances in three the next Night of getting his first zombie. So if things are getting tight, the Witchdoctor needs to alert the Vicar that one corpse is under enchantment. I really can't see any way to handle this except via roleclaim.

[Stanislaus]

Okay, I'm having fun metagaming and trying to deconstruct here... but when are we going to get around to throwing around the wild accusations and lynching each other? Shouldn't there be a little more virulence in here?Yeah, but frankly I feel stupid conjuring votes out of thin air. My plan is to wait until my Monday evening (lunchtime Pacific Time) and see what material we have then. If there's nothing incriminating, I'll vote for someone quiet and see what that stirs up.

[Freudian Slit]

Couldn't scum masquerading as good players pretend to breadcrumb? Is there precedent for this?

Also, if the Vicar is blessing corpses before they die...how does he/she know whom to bless? Do they look at whoever is probably going to get lynched by the town by tallying up who's voting for whom so far? Or do they get to bless someone right after the lynching but before day?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Couldn't scum masquerading as good players pretend to breadcrumb? Is there precedent for this?

Also, if the Vicar is blessing corpses before they die...how does he/she know whom to bless? Do they look at whoever is probably going to get lynched by the town by tallying up who's voting for whom so far? Or do they get to bless someone right after the lynching but before day?

I'm pretty sure the Vicar is a Night Role, like the others. When the Day ends, and while the Wolves, Vamp, Vig are deciding who to kill, the Vicar and all the pro-town roles PM the mods with whom they want to bless/enchant/protect/investigate/give wedgies to

[Fretful Porpentine]

I'm pretty sure the Vicar is a Night Role, like the others. When the Day ends, and while the Wolves, Vamp, Vig are deciding who to kill, the Vicar and all the pro-town roles PM the mods with whom they want to bless/enchant/protect/investigate/give wedgies to
Hmm, but the description for the role does say that the Vicar may bless one dead player each Day, including the player to be lynched later that Day. My interpretation is that the Vicar works by Day, but I think this game has officially broken my brain, so I may not be the best person to explain the rules :)

[Kat]

Okay, I'm having fun metagaming and trying to deconstruct here... but when are we going to get around to throwing around the wild accusations and lynching each other? Shouldn't there be a little more virulence in here?

No, no, that usually happens in Day Two. Sometimes late Day One, but not normally this early in Day One.

Hi Kat, I felt lonely in the other game.

Hi, Mad! I missed voting for you in the other game! :( I'd do it now, but it would confuse everyone over there. :D

Also, anyone who wants to take on a second game (or anyone following this thread who wants into a game), we need a sub in the off-board Firefly game (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi). Send a PM to me or NAF1138.

[Pleonast]

To clear up the Vicar Role: each Day (before Wednesday noon, Pacific Time) a Vicar needs to PM or email their choice of blessing: one of the Players already dead (no matter how long dead) or the Player to be lynched at the end of that Day. A Vicar's blessing will permanently prevent a corpse from becoming a Zombie.

Some Roles have Day Powers, others have Night Powers. Each Role description should make it clear. All Powers are resolved at the end of the Day/Night they are used.

Please, feel free to email me if you have rules questions, especially about your own Role. If it's of general importance, I'll clarify it here, otherwise I'll answer it privately.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Couldn't scum masquerading as good players pretend to breadcrumb? Is there precedent for this?

Breadcrumbing is for roles with information that they may not get the chance to share before they are killed. Since roles are revealed after death, there would be no point for scum to put false breadcrumbs, because no one would believe them anyway. Although ... I suppose scum could cultivate false alliances and disputes that would confuse people after their death. A crude example would be if A publicly supported B as town; then if A were lynched and discovered to be scum, suspicion could fall on B because it would appear that A and B are on the same side (even though B is actually town). This is a very crudely simplified example though; scum would probably be much more subtle than that.

Breadcrumbing is always iffy though; do it too obviously and scum catch up with you - do it too subtly and it ends up confusing the survivors.

I was going over the rules again, and I think my brain just exploded. In former Mafia games players were content to lynch somewhat randomly on the first Day and take the chance of letting a vanilla townie die in hopes of revealing more about the other players, but because we have no vanilla townies I feel like everyone is a bit more hesitant to stick themselves out there. Hopefully there will be more conversation tomorrow.

Gah. Where's the bar in this town?

[Rysto]

Breadcrumbing is for roles with information that they may not get the chance to share before they are killed. Since roles are revealed after death, there would be no point for scum to put false breadcrumbs, because no one would believe them anyway.
I believe the point of that would be to make a later false Cop claim believable. It's a clever idea but it wouldn't work in this game because the scum don't know who's Town and who's scum. Several of their breadcrumbs would likely be wrong, and one of those players had subsequently died, the incorrect breadcrumb would be found out.

Gah. Where's the bar in this town?
Come on, you know the drill! First we lynch, then we get drunk either celebrating or mourning.

Of course, the whole delayed information thing is going to put a crimp on that.

[Rysto]

Of course, one way that scum could make a believable role-claim is by always breadcrumbing the their fellow Wolves/Cabalists. I heartily endorse that maneuver.

[Santo Rugger]

Just popping in to say hi. I'm not caught up, but I just got back from El Paso and Palomas, Mexico, so I'll catch up tomorrow.

Cheers.

[CatInASuit]

Hi, I'm back as well and trying to make sense of all the roles and their possiblities.

This game does seem really quiet in comparison to other games though.

[One And Only Wanderers]

Well, with no vanilla's in the game, any forced role claim from a nonscum will out a town power role. I am not sure how to proceed on day 1 in this case. Would we be better going no lynch and seeing what happens tonight, or would this be bad thing?

[CatInASuit]

Ok,

Win conditions: From Pleonast's rules, for the town it looks we have to keep the witches alive to win. Could we end up with a situation where no-one wins?

I think we will have to be very careful of rushed lynches. If the Vicar has decided to bless someone and we suddenly rush lynch someone else due to roleclaim, we could end up with an unprotected corpse. Not a good situation. Of course, we don't know who the Vicar has decided to protect each day, but it could get nervy towards the end of each day.

More as I think on it.

[ShadowFacts]

I think we will have to be very careful of rushed lynches. If the Vicar has decided to bless someone and we suddenly rush lynch someone else due to roleclaim, we could end up with an unprotected corpse. Not a good situation. Of course, we don't know who the Vicar has decided to protect each day, but it could get nervy towards the end of each day.

Not that I disagree with your point about rush lynches, but I don't think we need to worry about your scenario. Here's what Pleonast said just above:

To clear up the Vicar Role: each Day (before Wednesday noon, Pacific Time) a Vicar needs to PM or email their choice of blessing: one of the Players already dead (no matter how long dead) or the Player to be lynched at the end of that Day. A Vicar's blessing will permanently prevent a corpse from becoming a Zombie.

So it would appear that the vicar can just pick whoever gets lynched, rather than having to specify the actual person (unless I am reading Pleonast wrong).

[Fretful Porpentine]

Well, with no vanilla's in the game, any forced role claim from a nonscum will out a town power role. I am not sure how to proceed on day 1 in this case. Would we be better going no lynch and seeing what happens tonight, or would this be bad thing?
I think we have to lynch, because we get information from lynches (not as quickly as we would in other games, but still.) If we don't lynch, we'll be in exactly the same situation on future Days as we are today, only with fewer townies left alive.

[Pleonast]

So it would appear that the vicar can just pick whoever gets lynched, rather than having to specify the actual person (unless I am reading Pleonast wrong).You are reading correctly.

[One And Only Wanderers]

I think we have to lynch, because we get information from lynches (not as quickly as we would in other games, but still.) If we don't lynch, we'll be in exactly the same situation on future Days as we are today, only with fewer townies left alive.


I see your point. Our first day ends day after tomorrow I believe.

Could we get the current votecount please Pleonast?

[Pleonast]

I somehow edited out an important rule.

A Player who is killed, but comes back to life because of a Witchdoctor's enchantment, will know the Identity of his killer.

Current vote count is in the Players link in my sig.

Edit: vote list is also in the Mirror link, if you can't access Google docs. I'll put the final vote count in this thread.

[MadTheSwine]

Vote Nesta

[CatInASuit]

I somehow edited out an important rule.

A Player who is killed, but comes back to life because of a Witchdoctor's enchantment, will know the Identity of his killer.

Current vote count is in the Players link in my sig.

Edit: vote list is also in the Mirror link, if you can't access Google docs. I'll put the final vote count in this thread.
This one can make the Witch Doctor(s) very powerful if they guess right. It means that a night killer could effectively be caught a couple of days after they have killed, effectively giving the town some real assistance.

Here's hoping they guess right. :)