PDA

View Full Version : male vs. female rape victims, strange observations


jsgoddess
10-04-2007, 10:06 AM
I'm reading a novel that has a brutal male-on-male rape fairly early.

I'm finding that I feel more unsettled by this fictional rape than by rapes where the victim is female, and I don't have a logical reason for that. To some extent, I wonder if I've been desensitized to reading about women getting raped.

On the other hand, male rape is sometimes played for laughs. I can remember a movie commercial with someone getting (apparently) sodomized by a giant hamster? And there was an appallingly bad comedy a few years ago where the main character gets thrown into prison and gets raped. It's supposed to be funny. I can't think of an example where the rape of a female character is supposed to amuse the audience (though there's that scene from an 80s comedy where a woman mistakes a costumed stranger for her boyfriend and has "consensual" sex with him).

So, I guess my questions are many. Do you perceive rape differently based on the sex of the victim? When the rape is "serious," is it worse, somehow, when it happens to a man? If so, why?

Are there depictions of rape that you find funny? Does it matter who the victim is?

Thoughts?

diggleblop
10-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Being a male, I feel it worse because:

1. I'm a male myself and couldn't imagine it happening to me.
2. There is only one hole for a man to get raped in.

Swallowed My Cellphone
10-04-2007, 10:45 AM
I remember a couple years ago, I saw the movie Trading Places for the first time in well over a decade. It's the one where Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd get screwed over by some old codgers who are commodity brokers. Paul Gleason play some bad guy, and his comeuppance is to end up trapped in a gorilla suit, his mouth taped shut so he can't ask for help, locked in a cage with an amorous male silverback gorilla.

Obviously that's supposed to be funny. But it really bothered me. The concept that this guy was being repeatedly sodomized, couldn't ask for help, and would be in that position indefinitely really did not sit well with me. And the casual "ha, ha, bad guy got what he deserves" aspect of it didn't fly with me at all because he was such a bumbling jackass of a bad guy and couldn't possibly deserve that.

I have no idea why that's supposed to be funny, but I suspect it's from some old dramatic tradition where a man becoming emmasculated is supposed to be humorous. (Like the way "pansies" and effete gay men have been played for laughs for as long as performance has been around.) People laugh when you make a joke about some guy becoming another man's "prison bitch," for example. Like "Ha, ha. He's been forced to be like a woman. Ha, ha. He's like the 'weaker sex'. Ha."

So with the expectation that it's supposed to be "funny", when it's depicted in non-humor contexts, it's probably somehow more "shocking" because it subverts our expectations. We expect it to be clownish, instead we see how monstrous it really is.

Cinematic language (whether generic damsel-in-distress or more serious stuff) teaches us that raping a woman, or any violence toward a woman, defines the culprit as a Really Bad Man. Like in Titanic, What's-His-Face slapped Kate Winslet, and that was cinema shorthand for "He's a total bastard." So in a way, you accept the violence towards women as a part of an established language (which is a bit disturbing). It's wrong, you know it's wrong, and you accept it as an indicator of "evil". You expect it to be "awful and shocking".

"Humorous" male-on-male rape, is also a familiar language, but "serious" depictions of the victimization of a male is much less common. It thwarts some of our expectations, and it's unsettling.

jsgoddess
10-04-2007, 11:18 AM
I remember a couple years ago, I saw the movie Trading Places for the first time in well over a decade. It's the one where Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd get screwed over by some old codgers who are commodity brokers. Paul Gleason play some bad guy, and his comeuppance is to end up trapped in a gorilla suit, his mouth taped shut so he can't ask for help, locked in a cage with an amorous male silverback gorilla.

Ah. I had forgotten that one.

I think your premise is interesting, but I'm not sure if I agree that the rape ends up horrifying because we expected it to be funny since I've never found it funny. Wouldn't the one preclude the other?

jsgoddess
10-04-2007, 11:27 AM
Being a male, I feel it worse because:

1. I'm a male myself and couldn't imagine it happening to me.
2. There is only one hole for a man to get raped in.

You can't imagine it happening to you so it's worse? That confuses me.

If a woman is anally raped, is that worse than if she is vaginally raped? Obviously, we're talking gut reaction here.

cowgirl
10-04-2007, 11:29 AM
My first year university orientation was full of all these awareness-raising exercises about drug use and sexual health and campus safety and so on and so forth. This stuff is usually quite forgettable but one skit has stayed with me because it was so striking.

It was a skit about date rape, with a somewhat ambiguous situation resulting in non-consensual sex. The victim was a guy instead of a girl. Everything else I had ever seen about rape involved female victims so this was something brand new.

The reason it was so effective is because it was directed at the GUYS. I think rape prevention should be directed at potential rapists, not potential victims. Representing the situation in this way made it quite clear to any potential rapists exactly how invasive and horrifying uninvited sexual contact can be, even in ambiguous date rape situations.

It was also a striking demonstration of how date rape is so often not taken seriously. Since it was a man, every person in the room had a visceral feeling of disgust and horror. The situation was ambiguous enough that if it had been a woman as the victim, many would argue that it wasn't clearly rape. Women rape victims do not make us nearly as uncomfortable as men rape victims. Why not?

I think representing date rape like this more often would be enormously beneficial. I see an awful lot of discussion about date rape and the fuzzy area around "consent." I think the terror of unwelcome sexual contact be a lot clearer in the minds of perpetrators if they were forced to think about it with THEMSELVES as the victim, which they rarely are.

JSexton
10-04-2007, 11:37 AM
I think accounts of male rape hit me harder, but it's probably because I am male, and I can put myself in the character's place more easily.

I agree that male rape is played for laughs (or as a justifiable result) far too often.

As for that last question? Yes, I think anal rape of a woman is more painful (physically and emotionally) than vaginal rape. I even think most women would agree.

Malacandra
10-04-2007, 11:49 AM
You can't imagine it happening to you so it's worse? That confuses me.

If a woman is anally raped, is that worse than if she is vaginally raped? Obviously, we're talking gut reaction here.

Gut reaction: sure. One place is stretchy enough to pass a baby's head and self-lubricating into the bargain - and AIUI well able to lubricate even in case of rape. The other is stretchy enough to pass a large Richard and doesn't lubricate, and I'd guess associates itself with the word "unnatural" too. Bad enough to be raped in the first place without what I'd guess as much more pain, higher injury risk, and the violation of a taboo into the bargain.

Swallowed My Cellphone
10-04-2007, 11:56 AM
I think your premise is interesting, but I'm not sure if I agree that the rape ends up horrifying because we expected it to be funny since I've never found it funny. Wouldn't the one preclude the other?No, that's not quite the premise. I've never found it funny either. (Heck, Pepe LePew cartoons made me uncomfortable as a kid because he never let the cat alone.)

I'm thinking more that our response to media representations of violence against is different more because a more honest depiction of the victimization of men is newer to our cinematic culture.

There was a short film festival here that had a film noir that was essentially a gender reversal of The Maltese Falcon. Women were the "dominant gender", so the grim private-eye who lost a buddy in the trenches of the war was a woman, the somber police chief was a woman, the bad guy thug was a woman, and the lounge singer, hooker-with-a-heart-of-gold was male. (Interestingly, he did not play it effeminately, he was straight-laced and masculine the whole time.)

You don't actually realize how often women were slapped around in those old movies, until you see Rusty get slapped. His character didn't really get hit any more than women did in those kinds of movies (you know, where the gangster slaps his floozy), but because, as an audience, we used to seeing women get slapped, but a lot less used to seeing a guy get casually slapped the same way. (And he got slapped a few times.) It really made a strong point about the casual violence directed at women in movies.

A reversal would be that private-eye movie with Kathleen Turner. A lot of people objected to the way she kept getting punched in the face during a scene. And the scene was defended, with people saying if that had been a man playing the P.I. role, no one would have complained. Ben Affleck was in a very similar scene in Reindeer Games - tied to a chair and punched in the face when he didn't answer questions - no one thought that was "wrong", but it was "shocking" when a woman played an otherwise familiar scene.

So I think our response to the victims will be different depending on what we're used to seeing, and the context in which we're used to seeing it, as well as our own experiences.

Swallowed My Cellphone
10-04-2007, 12:21 PM
Sorry about the doulbe-post, I'm still mulling...

Historically, when we've seen men on the receiving end of violence (in entertainment media representations), it's been either macho or cartoony.

Eg/
John Wayne shakes off a punch that would kill someone IRL. Batman gets a chair broken over his back and keeps on fighting. The Three Stooges beat the snot out of each other as part of their routine. When something happens to the hero, he just grits his teeth and deals with it (no falling apart or crying, shrugs off the pain).

We have a much longer history of seeing male victims not really appearing to be victimized at all.

So when we get a more true-to-life account that actually displays the physical and emotional consequences that violence has on men, we're confronted with our fears and vulnerabilities on a much more human, realistic level.

Basically, jsgoddess I'm agreeing with your OP's hypothesis. But that we aren't necessarily desensitized to a woman's trauma (it still has impact), rather we are less accustomed to seeing a man's trauma portrayed accurately, and so it has more impact because we haven't fully learned to deal with it.

Mr. Moto
10-04-2007, 12:38 PM
2. There is only one hole for a man to get raped in.

I think you're off on your count there.

tdn
10-04-2007, 12:56 PM
Just a guess, but think about this:

Rape is violent, painful, and humiliating. For anybody. For a man, it is also emasculating. And then there's that whole gay taboo thrown in as well.

Years ago I read something like an advice column but a bit more adult than Dear Abby. A young man wrote in with something like (paraphrased) "Some guys held me down and fucked me in the ass. I didn't like it and I tried to get away, but they forced me. I'm worried that that makes me gay now. I don't want to be gay."

How sad is that?

Trunk
10-04-2007, 01:04 PM
First of all, anal rape of a woman sounds worse to me than vaginal rape of a woman. So, there's that.

Second of all, while man-on-woman is indisputably a terrible violation, it doesn't seem to me that it's "unfeminizing" in the way that man-on-man is emasculating. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm just saying that's how it comes across.

There's some kind of difference -- maybe just a visceral reaction on my part --because woman regularly have vaginal sex but men don't have anal sex. (well, gay men do, but let's not go there right now. I don't think it's any better for a gay dude to get raped than a straight dude)

tdn
10-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Simulpost?

DianaG
10-04-2007, 01:16 PM
Second of all, while man-on-woman is indisputably a terrible violation, it doesn't seem to me that it's "unfeminizing" in the way that man-on-man is emasculating. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm just saying that's how it comes across.
Well, it's more physically painful. I'm not sure it's more emotionally traumatic.

It strikes me as odd that the first word people think of in relation to male rape is "emasculating". As opposed to "dehumanizing". Which is what rape really is, of course.

You know, there's no real feminine equivalent of the word "emasculate" is there? I suspect that may be the root of the problem here. Apparently masculinity is so valuable that losing even a little of it is a grave disaster, whereas femininity has little value, and is in fact the default you're left with when the vastly superior masculinity has been stripped away.

This isn't an attack on Trunk or anyone here by the way, just an observation.

tdn
10-04-2007, 01:21 PM
You know, there's no real feminine equivalent of the word "emasculate" is there? I suspect that may be the root of the problem here. Apparently masculinity is so valuable that losing even a little of it is a grave disaster, whereas femininity has little value, and is in fact the default you're left with when the vastly superior masculinity has been stripped away.
Pretty much. It's what society has hammered into us since we were boys. Of course, you could logic us outof that mindset, but the subject here is about visceral reactions, not logic.

Cat Fight
10-04-2007, 01:44 PM
Well, it's more physically painful. I'm not sure it's more emotionally traumatic.

It strikes me as odd that the first word people think of in relation to male rape is "emasculating". As opposed to "dehumanizing". Which is what rape really is, of course.

You know, there's no real feminine equivalent of the word "emasculate" is there? I suspect that may be the root of the problem here. Apparently masculinity is so valuable that losing even a little of it is a grave disaster, whereas femininity has little value, and is in fact the default you're left with when the vastly superior masculinity has been stripped away.

This isn't an attack on Trunk or anyone here by the way, just an observation.

This deserves a repost in the Pit gender inequalities thread. There's also no real, common equivalent to 'Be a man!' (which is sad for both women and men). Except maybe... 'You're acting like a woman (or throwing, or crying).'

I'm not sure sodomy is necessarily more emotionally painful than vaginal rape. Not all rapists are 'having sex' with their female victims. They're slamming away at an unwilling orifice (and yes Virginia, natural anal lubrication does exist). Also, while a straight man may never have anal sex again, a straight woman who wants to have consensual sex with a trusted male partner after getting raped often has a helluva lot of emotional crap to get through first.

I hate to say it, but desensitization is definitely a factor, as well of prevailing ideas of homophobia and women 'asking for it.' In Deliver Us From Evil, while pedophile priests weren't exactly punished for molesting boys, they were moved to another church. But only then. Nothing happened after it was known that they were molesting girls.

jsgoddess
10-04-2007, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure sodomy is necessarily more emotionally painful than vaginal rape. Not all rapists are 'having sex' with their female victims. They're slamming away at an unwilling orifice (and yes Virginia, natural anal lubrication does exist). Also, while a straight man may never have anal sex again, a straight woman who wants to have consensual sex with a trusted male partner after getting raped often has a helluva lot of emotional crap to get through first.

This is how I view it, too. Anal rape might be more physically traumatic, but it wouldn't have the same emotional connotations.

Couple that with the very real additional fear of pregnancy, and vaginal rape goes a different direction.

Sunrazor
10-04-2007, 02:25 PM
You know, there's no real feminine equivalent of the word "emasculate" is there? No, because with the exception of a medical surgery performed only to prevent or arrest disease, there's no actual equivalent of emasculation. Now, it's true that there are men who would choose death over loss of their genitals, if surgical removal were the only treatment option. But that's one of the many downsides of having external genitals; from earliest childhood, we have nightmares about losing our boy parts. The guys down there are part of our identity, a part we see and, out of necessity, handle several times a day. We learn very early on that it's what makes us different from girls, so obviously it becomes part of one's identity, to a far greater degree than any other body part. The mystique and mythology of manhood is ingrained into us from birth. For a heterosexual man to be anally raped is to tell him his genitalia are insignificant, his manood is worthless, and his value as a human is cancelled.

I don't know, but I'd assume a woman feels much the same way when her body, capable of giving birth and then nourishing the newborn in a manner that is nothing short of awesome, is forcibly used as an unwilling cum-catcher. On the one hand, our culture celebrates the woman as mother, lover and miraculous procreator; I can't imagine the horror when this venerated vessel of humanity's very future is violated for the basest purpose of subjugatiuon.

To rape a man is to nullify his identity; to rape a woman is to enslave her, not just during the act, but possibly forever.

DianaG
10-04-2007, 02:51 PM
No, because with the exception of a medical surgery performed only to prevent or arrest disease, there's no actual equivalent of emasculation. Now, it's true that there are men who would choose death over loss of their genitals, if surgical removal were the only treatment option. But that's one of the many downsides of having external genitals; from earliest childhood, we have nightmares about losing our boy parts. The guys down there are part of our identity, a part we see and, out of necessity, handle several times a day. We learn very early on that it's what makes us different from girls, so obviously it becomes part of one's identity, to a far greater degree than any other body part. The mystique and mythology of manhood is ingrained into us from birth. For a heterosexual man to be anally raped is to tell him his genitalia are insignificant, his manood is worthless, and his value as a human is cancelled.
So, just to sum up, rape makes a man feel like a woman, and thus, not like a human? I'm really hoping that you just worded that badly.

Or does (specifically) anal rape also tell a woman that her genitalia are insigficant, and her womanhood is worthless, and her value as a human is cancelled?

I don't know, but I'd assume a woman feels much the same way when her body, capable of giving birth and then nourishing the newborn in a manner that is nothing short of awesome, is forcibly used as an unwilling cum-catcher. On the one hand, our culture celebrates the woman as mother, lover and miraculous procreator; I can't imagine the horror when this venerated vessel of humanity's very future is violated for the basest purpose of subjugatiuon.
What is this crap? Seriously, a raped woman doesn't mourn the desecration of a "venerated vessel", she's PISSED that her body (that's HER body, not some feminine ideal) has been violated. Much, I imagine, as a man would feel.

To rape a man is to nullify his identity; to rape a woman is to enslave her, not just during the act, but possibly forever.
You cannot be serious. This is insulting to both genders in so many ways that my head is about to explode.

tdn
10-04-2007, 02:58 PM
So, just to sum up, rape makes a man feel like a woman, and thus, not like a human? I'm really hoping that you just worded that badly.
I think you're personalizing this way too much. He's not saying that it's bad to be a woman. It's not like male minus penis equals female. It's that we strongly identify with our manhood, and it's terrifying to have that stripped away.

Der Trihs
10-04-2007, 03:24 PM
This deserves a repost in the Pit gender inequalities thread. There's also no real, common equivalent to 'Be a man!' (which is sad for both women and men). Except maybe... 'You're acting like a woman (or throwing, or crying).'"Act like a lady." I don't know how common that is these days.

If a woman is anally raped, is that worse than if she is vaginally raped? Obviously, we're talking gut reaction here.I recall a study claiming that women tend to suffer more long term trauma from vaginal rape. No cite, sorry.

jsgoddess
10-04-2007, 03:35 PM
I recall a study claiming that women tend to suffer more long term trauma from vaginal rape. No cite, sorry.

That would make sense to me.

DianaG
10-04-2007, 03:48 PM
I think you're personalizing this way too much. He's not saying that it's bad to be a woman. It's not like male minus penis equals female. It's that we strongly identify with our manhood, and it's terrifying to have that stripped away.
I'm actually not personalizing it, I'm exploring the question of why people have viscerally different reactions to the idea of men vs. women being raped.

Frankly, my feeling is that a man's "identity" is only wrapped up in his "manhood" (read penis) inasmuch as his "manhood" represents his power, and that the underlying assumption behind all this talk of emasculation is "Well, it's different when it's a guy. Sure, it's unfortunate when it happens to women, but you can't be stripped of power you didn't possess in the first place". This makes people comfortable asserting that raping a woman is an attack only on her person, and her oh-so-delicate feminine psyche, but not her identity. But that's crap, because my identity is just as wrapped up in the ability to control my destiny as yours is.

Again, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just making observations based on my experience, and asking people to perhaps question their own assumptions.

Freudian Slit
10-04-2007, 03:50 PM
As a woman, I'd rather be vaginally raped than anally raped. I'm at least used to one form of penetration. I have tried out anal sex (well, accidentally). Based on that "experimentation," I don't ever, ever want to experience that kind of pain again. Ever!

Shodan
10-04-2007, 04:04 PM
There was a short film festival here that had a film noir that was essentially a gender reversal of The Maltese Falcon. Women were the "dominant gender", so the grim private-eye who lost a buddy in the trenches of the war was a woman, the somber police chief was a woman, the bad guy thug was a woman, and the lounge singer, hooker-with-a-heart-of-gold was male. (Interestingly, he did not play it effeminately, he was straight-laced and masculine the whole time.)

You don't actually realize how often women were slapped around in those old movies, until you see Rusty get slapped. Interesting point. Joel Cairo gets slapped (by Sam Spade) in The Maltese Falcon, but he is gay, so maybe the same taboo is being preserved.

Regards,
Shodan

Freudian Slit
10-04-2007, 04:07 PM
In terms of this identity stuff, one could argue that a woman's identity is tied up in deciding when and where and how a man penetrates her "vessel." You know, the whole idea that a man is the gas, a woman is the brakes.

Or we could just throw "identity" to the wind and acknowledge that people feel disgusted and violated and seriously pissed when they're raped or sexually assaulted, no matter in what orifice or what gender. How it feels is so subjective, but I think we can agree that generally there it's bad for everyone.

11811
10-04-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't perceive rape any differently for a man or a woman, regardless of the sex of the victim or the perpetrator.

Rape is always serious.

It's been a long time since I thought of rape as funny

I think the extent to which our culture as a whole thinks male-on-male rape is more serious is based in the suspicion that male-on-female rape is actually somehow consensual. I think perhaps it's also considered morally safer to joke about male-on-male rape because people who write these gags think it's more politically correct than male-on-female rape.

Finally, I'll admit to being surprised at the preponderance of women teachers as opposed to men teachers getting sexually involved with their students. And I suspect that there are plenty of people who think "hot female teacher + underage male student" is no harm done.

phouka
10-04-2007, 05:43 PM
No, because with the exception of a medical surgery performed only to prevent or arrest disease, there's no actual equivalent of emasculation.

I strongly disagree.

First, start with "female circumcision," which is more aptly described as "female genital mutilation". In the mildest version, it's still a grotesquely unsafe and demeaning procedure that enforces the idea that an unaltered woman has no control over her sexual impulses. From there, some cultures appear to take pride in destroying a woman's ability to enjoy sex by removing the tip of the clitoris, the major labia, and sewing up the minor labia so that only a trickle of menstrual blood can escape.

Please consider how you might feel if someone amputated the glans of your penis, all the slack skin of your scrotum, and then managed to sew it all up so that if you ever had an erection, it would hurt. Once you have that image in mind, you have a direct translation.

Even if we're not discussing the aberrant practices of a misogynistic third world culture, there are still parallels that can be drawn.

Until the 80s, it was still standard practice during a mastectomy to remove all the breast tissue and not consider reconstruction at all. The woman had to learn how to make a prosthesis of her own or spend an exhorbitant amount of money that wasn't covered by insurance. Men facing an orchidectomy (removal of one or both testicles) were given silicon prostheses so they wouldn't miss the heft of their testicles.

I would never dismiss a man's attachment to and fear for his genitals. By the same token, however, men need to understand that their dicks are no more special and worthy of protection than our pussies.

Cat Fight
10-04-2007, 06:07 PM
Finally, I'll admit to being surprised at the preponderance of women teachers as opposed to men teachers getting sexually involved with their students. And I suspect that there are plenty of people who think "hot female teacher + underage male student" is no harm done.

South Park did a great episode on this where a kindergarten teacher is sleeping with Kyle's baby brother Ike and all the adult males and cops can say is 'Niiice.'

Male-on-female rape may not be fodder for much comedy (except anything to do with hookers. They're pretty much presented as sub-human), but it's sure as hell more prevalent in movies and on TV (with the exception of Oz, of course), and way more likely to be glamourized/made to look sexy.

tdn
10-04-2007, 07:23 PM
I'm actually not personalizing it, I'm exploring the question of why people have viscerally different reactions to the idea of men vs. women being raped.
OK, and sorry I accused you of that.

I was in the process of formulating an argument as to why my point stands, and I pretty much came up with nothing. There's nothing special that men have that women don't have their own version of. In fact, since we're all different anyway, I'm sure it would be a unique sort of hell for each of us.

Now if you don't mind, I'm going to give my brain a break from this topic for a while.

Walloon
10-05-2007, 03:25 AM
There is only one hole for a man to get raped in.Not all sexual assaults involve penetration (and forced oral sex does).

panache45
10-05-2007, 08:34 AM
I think you're off on your count there.
Yes, we seem to be forgetting about oral rape . . . admittedly very, very dangerous to the rapist, unless the victim has removable dentures. :eek:

But the bottom line is: Rape is rape, and I don't see any difference depending on genders or body parts.

Sunrazor
10-05-2007, 01:45 PM
I strongly disagree.

First, start with "female circumcision," which is more aptly described as "female genital mutilation". In the mildest version, it's still a grotesquely unsafe and demeaning procedure that enforces the idea that an unaltered woman has no control over her sexual impulses. From there, some cultures appear to take pride in destroying a woman's ability to enjoy sex by removing the tip of the clitoris, the major labia, and sewing up the minor labia so that only a trickle of menstrual blood can escape.

Please consider how you might feel if someone amputated the glans of your penis, all the slack skin of your scrotum, and then managed to sew it all up so that if you ever had an erection, it would hurt. Once you have that image in mind, you have a direct translation.Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I was pretty much confining my thinking to the culture with which I'm most familiar.

Until the 80s, it was still standard practice during a mastectomy to remove all the breast tissue and not consider reconstruction at all. The woman had to learn how to make a prosthesis of her own or spend an exhorbitant amount of money that wasn't covered by insurance. Men facing an orchidectomy (removal of one or both testicles) were given silicon prostheses so they wouldn't miss the heft of their testicles. Again, we're talking about surgical procedures to save a person's life. I wouldn't ever argue that surgical loss of a part of one's sexual identity isn't traumatic. I was only pointing out that there's a difference in my male mind between having to relinquish male parts in exchange for curing cancer, and having my male identity violently sliced away from me. I had to make that point to get to the point about how anal rape of a man can be emasculating, and why emasculation is particularly horrifying to men.

Sunrazor
10-05-2007, 02:07 PM
You cannot be serious. This is insulting to both genders in so many ways that my head is about to explode.This not an uncommon reaction when a woman actually gets to peek inside a man's head. It's not pretty. But yes, I am quite serious. Men do venerate women's procreative powers and whether you like it or not, we always will. And that threatens us, and it always will. And we have to work very, very hard to not be threatened by that, and we mostly fail.

Why do you think there are billions of images of young, beautiful women all over the internet with their legs spread wide and their bare vulvas gaping open? Because that place is a place of mystery and wonder to us. We know it has a power over us, and our nature is not to transcend that power, but to overpower it, which we do by plunging our male identities into it. Yes, yes, at some point when a sex partner becomes a friend and mate and spouse, the act becomes the tender sharing of our bodies with (hopefully) reciprocal pleasure. But until then, it's just fucking, and that's all about the power.

I sincerely hope that the parenting my generation and succeeding generations have done will result in boys in our culture not growing up to think of females as being less than males because they have fewer visible genitals. But if you want to know why men fear rape almost more than anything else, you have to accept that generations of us have been trained to see the world that way. It's one thing to campaign, contribute to causes and vote for a world in which women are actually equal to men; it's quite another to feel a gut reaction to something. And I think the OP of this thread specifically mentions gut reactions.

DianaG
10-05-2007, 02:19 PM
You know, I thought up about 37 different responses to that, and then figured that really, it's pointless. Although I do sincerely hope that at least one guy will pop in here, read that tripe, and bother to post "What's this "we" shit, buddy?"

tdn
10-05-2007, 02:29 PM
You know, I thought up about 37 different responses to that, and then figured that really, it's pointless. Although I do sincerely hope that at least one guy will pop in here, read that tripe, and bother to post "What's this "we" shit, buddy?"
I'll admit that I don't get quite that poetic and mystical when I surf for porn. I just venerate nice titties. And while the thought of rape is scary if I let myself think about it, I honestly don't spend much time thinking about it.

Sunrazor
10-05-2007, 03:55 PM
I'll admit that I don't get quite that poetic and mystical when I surf for porn. I just venerate nice titties. . .I rest my case.

Martiju
10-05-2007, 04:17 PM
You know, I thought up about 37 different responses to that, and then figured that really, it's pointless. Although I do sincerely hope that at least one guy will pop in here, read that tripe, and bother to post "What's this "we" shit, buddy?"

Yeah, I will! Especially the 'it's just fucking' bit. The one and only time I had a one night stand it just felt wrong - and I tried to kid myself that it might lead to something more because without the emotional connection it wasn't a good experience at all.

I'm quite willing to take the view that I'm somehow unusual in that - especially because my fantasies only very rarely are about penetrative sex alone - but if I feel like this (and have at least 3 friends that feel the same) then I'm guessing it's not totally uncommon.

And no, sex to me is not about 'overpowering' the vulva/vagina. Maybe I'm lucky (or unlucky) that I prefer to make love to a person than fuck an object. I kinda feel sorry for people who do feel like that!

And to answer the OP, no, there's no rape that I find funny. I think it's just a sign of the times - forced sex against anyone is such a taboo now that the whole concept, whether it's male/male, male/female or female/male, just doesn't have the comic effect that it once did. Pure speculation, but perhaps with a worldwide media at our fingertips, we can now relate directly to real horrific events in people's lives, wherever they are. That realism tends to take away the comedy intrinsic in unusual or (perceived) unlikely events.

Handsomecat
05-24-2014, 10:15 AM
Yeah, I will! Especially the 'it's just fucking' bit. The one and only time I had a one night stand it just felt wrong - and I tried to kid myself that it might lead to something more because without the emotional connection it wasn't a good experience at all.

I'm quite willing to take the view that I'm somehow unusual in that - especially because my fantasies only very rarely are about penetrative sex alone - but if I feel like this (and have at least 3 friends that feel the same) then I'm guessing it's not totally uncommon.

And no, sex to me is not about 'overpowering' the vulva/vagina. Maybe I'm lucky (or unlucky) that I prefer to make love to a person than fuck an object. I kinda feel sorry for people who do feel like that!

And to answer the OP, no, there's no rape that I find funny. I think it's just a sign of the times - forced sex against anyone is such a taboo now that the whole concept, whether it's male/male, male/female or female/male, just doesn't have the comic effect that it once did. Pure speculation, but perhaps with a worldwide media at our fingertips, we can now relate directly to real horrific events in people's lives, wherever they are. That realism tends to take away the comedy intrinsic in unusual or (perceived) unlikely events.

Hello in your last paragraph you forgot to mention female/female also just doesn't have the comic effect that it once did.

Handsomecat
05-24-2014, 10:26 AM
People that make jokes about what happens to people in prison are immature and scared, they are so scare about this matter they have to joke about it and that is why they joke out of fearing it may happen to them one day.

grude
05-24-2014, 03:03 PM
I remember a couple years ago, I saw the movie Trading Places for the first time in well over a decade. It's the one where Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd get screwed over by some old codgers who are commodity brokers. Paul Gleason play some bad guy, and his comeuppance is to end up trapped in a gorilla suit, his mouth taped shut so he can't ask for help, locked in a cage with an amorous male silverback gorilla.

Obviously that's supposed to be funny. But it really bothered me. The concept that this guy was being repeatedly sodomized, couldn't ask for help, and would be in that position indefinitely really did not sit well with me. And the casual "ha, ha, bad guy got what he deserves" aspect of it didn't fly with me at all because he was such a bumbling jackass of a bad guy and couldn't possibly deserve that.

If it makes you feel any better, Gorillas have tiny penises compared to humans(I think it is like 1.25 inches erect).

And.......I don't know why I posted this..........

Inna Minnit
05-24-2014, 03:18 PM
Well, it's more physically painful. I'm not sure it's more emotionally traumatic.

It strikes me as odd that the first word people think of in relation to male rape is "emasculating". As opposed to "dehumanizing". Which is what rape really is, of course.

You know, there's no real feminine equivalent of the word "emasculate" is there? I suspect that may be the root of the problem here. Apparently masculinity is so valuable that losing even a little of it is a grave disaster, whereas femininity has little value, and is in fact the default you're left with when the vastly superior masculinity has been stripped away.

This isn't an attack on Trunk or anyone here by the way, just an observation.

I think part of it is that vaginal rape is viewed as sex. Forced sex, yes. But sex nonetheless. That's bullshit, of course. It isn't sex at all.

Foggy
05-24-2014, 03:46 PM
FYI: This is a nearly 7 year old thread.

Inna Minnit
05-24-2014, 04:11 PM
D' oh!