DUngeons and Dragons

[Brithael]

Firstly this really isnt a flame more like a singe. I recently found this site and registered..the show was very entertaining. anyway the complaint
It seems someone was diggin a little too deep te get the gist of Role playing..the rules are subject to change but there are gajillions of them for the unimaginative..they are not necessary to play. all Role playing entails is this. You write a story..not completely..the Master or controller of the game writes the environment..histroy and all uncontollable things we encounter in any reality.. the characters are given souls...basically somone who isnt really fit could achieve his dream of being a gallant knight even if it IS only on paper. I have played quite a few different games..some lasting for years..and get so attached to the characters..i write the entire adventure iunto a novel.this is a common practice of fantasy writers.
anyways....the best games i have played had no rulebooks and no statues or maps of every bathroom and pisshole on te planet...
thos who liketo read would really enjoy roleplaying...youget to contorl what your favorite character does!

[DrFidelius]

Could I ask you something? I attempted to parse some meaning out of your post, but I was unsuccessful. What are you going on about? Is this in responce to an old column or to another poster here? Is it from the MPSIMS area? If so, please be more clear as to the context of your remarks, for manny of us never go to that area.



------------------
Dr. Fidelius, Charlatan
Associate Curator Anomalous Paleontology, Miskatonic University
Homo vult decipi; decipiatur

[Czarcasm]

Ditto, and FYI-There are also a few books about The Straight Dope. :).

[popokis5]

Huh?

[Kat]

From the comment about "diggin a little too deep te get the gist of Role playing", I would guess Brithael is talking about either the column "What the deal with Dungeons and Dragons" ( http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_309b.html ) or the thread discussing it ( http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000163.html ) in Comments on Cecil's Columns. In either case, I couldn't find a point in the OP.

[Kat]

That should be "What's the deal...". And I didn't type it with that funky line break.

[E1skeptic]

Listen to this: according to Brithael's personal info on ICQ, he's 23 years old (which may explain a bit about his apparently senseless posts, and he"...love(s) Wierd expressive Punky Gothy type people....or any mixture of anything"

He also adds (jokingly, I'd like to think) that he belongs to the following:

International Org.: World Domination Commitee
Club/Social Org.: The Spanish Inquisition
Community Org.: Redneck Cleansing Org.

My guess is this guy either screwed up and posted on the wrong MB, or he's some poster's friend and is just pulling our legs. But he definitely sounds weird. We'll see.

[Byzantine]

Okay, everyone knows my bitch about bad typists and those who just ramble. But there is a point in all that. Somewhere. Perhaps I'm wrong or I see what I want to. You get the idea that somehow all fantasy writers drag up (dredge up) their ideas from roll playing games? Or some such. I think I'm close. If I'm wrong then all I can say is, "kiss my butt and call it ice-cream" because I like where I'm going and don't really care if you come along or not. Want to go with me? Then take my hand...

Fine, lets run with that. I write fantasy. I've played Dungeons and Dragons. I've been a player and a Dungeon Master (how many were shocked at my title Master? You will bow down before me!) Anyway, yes. I've gone both ways (insert comment here). Gotten story ideas from games, gotten game ideas from stories.

As a writer, it's all the same. You say, I write, I say, you write and I take it for my own. It's all the same. You, none of you, on this board, can say anything that doesn't slip through my writers mind. It's all fodder for my mill. But the best times, best games, the best stories... those were ripped from someone's head.

No checking the guide to hit damage, it was determined by a random roll of the die from the Master's hand. It was all up to them. What happened to me, my compatriots, the monsters. I loved that! That power and absolute final say!

Okay, sugar, you who posted this mistyped and badly posted topic. You are the master of this thread. Take a deep breath, slow your fingers, post again and let me know if I even hit close...

If you are typing and submitting novels even remotely close to what you type here than it's no wonder they never even got to mine after trying to read yours!

Kisses all around for everyone
Byz



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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[E1skeptic]

Ok, please enlighten us. What the heck is "Roll playing"? What are "Roll Games"? I have an idea, and if I'm correct, this is NOT the place to be playing those games, right?

C'mon, Byzantine, you can help.

[Byzantine]

Okay, I won't be so presumptions to speak for others but to me a roll playing game is one where I get to shed myself and step into another person's shoes.

I get to be a magician, a fighter, a cleric. I'm no longer me, Byzantine, I am, I become this other person. Yeah, it's a lot of fun but it isn't life! It's a chance to be another and feel things from their point of view. Everything I do, all the damage I can inflict on another is left up to the "roll" of the dice. IMHO that is where the name comes from. Yes, I walk into a roll but what ever happens to me is but the "luck of the roll". The Master calls the shots by rolling the dice.

It's a fucking game. Like life in a lot of ways.... The only difference is that in the game you have the immediate outcome to your actions... in real life, as I'm in now, you have to wait and see what the outcome will be... I can just see a bunch of warped , frustrated, teeneboppers jumping all over my shit because they don't like my explanation.
Again, my new young nubile friends, I invite you to "kissith my ass and call it a frozen treat".


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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[Byzantine]

E1skeptic

Oh, yes, you are right. Discussing such games is one thing but playing such here is nothing but the greatest load of bullshit.

[NicePete]

A "roll" playing game? Wouldn't that be where you pretend you are a baked good similar to a muffin? Does the Pillsbury Dough Boy play "roll" playing games?

Perhaps bowling is a "roll" playing game. Or craps.

Methinks you mean ROLE playing game.

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"Owls will deafen us with their incessant hooting!" W. Smithers

[E1skeptic]

Shit my English and my fast fingers!

You're absolutely right. It should read "ROLE", not "roll". Sorry... thanks.

[ChiefScott]

Hey Brithael --

One word for ya, dude: "girls."

[tracer]

Lynn wrote:

I had BETTER get Final Fantasy VIII (video RPG, comes out today, if I don't get it on Saturday my husband doesn't get any for months).

Your husband won't get to play Final Fantasy VIII for months? C'mon, don't you think such punishment is a little severe? ;)

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I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.

[ChiefScott]

Lynne -- Do I make amends if I say "lesbian role playing is an option for her"? Probably not, sorry. A gross and unfair assumption on my part -- pardonez moi, SVP.

Skeptic -- Hey, hey!! Hands off!!

[Brithael]

Right!
Forgive the lateness all I will offer no excuse. for those grading my paper...please dont tell my Mum and dad. "one word Brith...Girls" yes girls are great....
<thats actually 4 words but who's counting?>
And for the record...I am male. Please judge ones typing gently. You never know how many fingers someone has. OH yes Byzantine..i fully aggree.

[ChiefScott]

Boy... Now I'm all full of myself. Nyah-nyah, Lynne. ::wink::

[E1skeptic]

Hey, Chief, I toooooooooold ya'... "his info on ICQ says that..."

Now, regarding Kelli, well... ok. I'll keep my hands off. :)

[Brithael]

ICq info?...hmmmmm flattering....what does that have with the price of beer?

[Byzantine]

Frankd6

Okay, just slap me and call me "up all night". Yeah, fer like duh! You nailed it... I kept calling it roll when it's role... okay, let the fun flames begin! In my own defense I have nothing but that I just skipped right over it.... but let me tell you, Frankd6.... I will remember... Oh, yes, I'll remember.... MOOOHAAAA!

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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[Cap'n Crude]

E1Skep -- I've always made a distinction between "roleplaying" and "roll-playing," the latter being a subgenre of the former.

Roleplaying games are basically interactive storytelling, acting out the role of an imaginary character in a given setting. No scripts, no winning or losing -- just improv with some rules to provide for resolution of complex things like fights.

Roll-playing, aka hack-and-slash or dungeon crawling, strips away the creative and interactive parts of roleplaying games and reduces them to "my character is a pile of statistics -- let's see how efficiently those statistics can kill imaginary monsters." The "roll" comes from rolling the dice to resolve an endless series of battles, traps, and other such frippery.

One other kind of roleplaying is a little more bedroom-specific, along the lines of "The Housewife and the Poolboy," or "The Policewoman and the Male Prostitute." This also requires imagination, but everybody involved pretty much knows how it's all gonna end up.

[kellibelli]

My personal favorite is: aggressive woman forces herself on unsuspecting, innocent-acting(but he really wants it!) man, who puts up a feeble attempt to fend her off until... ooh, I have said too much!!!

[Lynn Bodoni]

ChiefScott:
{Hey Brithael --
One word for ya, dude: "girls."}

I think Brithael IS a girl. I know that I am/was. Gonna be 42 this Saturday, I prefer chocolate, sapphires, and I had BETTER get Final Fantasy VIII (video RPG, comes out today, if I don't get it on Saturday my husband doesn't get any for months).

Seriously, some adults play FRPGs. Even some women play.

Did I ever tell you about the time I wandered into an AOL chat room titled "Fantasy Role Playing"? It was an experience, believe me. I wanted to talk about D&D, or Gemstone, or some other RPG. The people there wanted to talk about something COMPLETELY different.




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Lynn the Packrat

[Byzantine]

Oh, goody, my massive mis-post is now in the dust because we're gonna get dirty... my favorite is the unsuspecting Tennessee Hippie and the Lusty Babe from Salt Lake City... well, I guess you have to be me... or him...

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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[E1skeptic]

Cap'n Crude: thanks for explaining. Sounds interesting and it's new for me (the roll-playing.

Kellibelli: can I call you? please? I'll do whatever you tell me to... ;)

[Satan]

I played D&D in High School.

Then I decided that I liked female companionship too much to continue.

------------------
Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html (http://rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html)

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

[DrFidelius]

In college, we had some modified rules.

"Okay, the troll has struck you. Roll a d-8 and take that many shots."
"You put on the Ring of Gaseous Form? Idiot. How are you going to take it off?"

The individual games didn't seem to last long, but we had some very long campaigns...

[kellibelli]

I actually played some D&D in high school,the then boyfriend was into it...and my brother did some DM ing,we played DC heroes( I believe it was called)
and that was kinda cool.

[moriah]

A fun D&D parody game I once played was profound in its prominent game mechanic:

"Roll for wandering damage."

[ChrisCTP]

I never got into D&D, but for awhile I was playing Shadowrun with a bunch of people who were constantly at my apartment.

I remember one game in particular, we (the characters) did nothing except have sex with each other. My character, who was highly charismatic, ended up pregnant by an ugly dwarf (I was an elf/mage... 20 month gestation.) I was pissed about that, but the GM (boyfriend at the time) played favourites with me and decided that I had a clone created to take care of the pregnancy so my character could still do runs.

Ah, the day. Sometimes I miss it.

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Veni, Vidi, Visa ... I came, I saw, I bought.

[Brithael]

If you really like funny stuff PLay "Toon" yo ucant die just fall down...and wake up somewhere else....its great..But personally i thikn the best games are hte ones that follow very very loose rules...

[kellibelli]

Take your mittens off man!

[Drain Bead]

I played D&D in high school. I am very much female. I still like console RPGs, and like Lynn, I am anxiously awaiting my chance to get FF8 (which unfortunately won't be happening until Christmas, I'd imagine). I am not a loser or a nerd, in fact, I get more than my fair share of attention from the opposite sex. Most of the guys I played D&D with were the same way.

[Byzantine]

Satan shared:

"I played D&D in High School. Then I decided that I liked female companionship too much to continue."

Hmmmm. Couldn't think after your dick was in gear? A common male lament! SLAM! She shoots, she scores!

I play games; computer, paper, board.... bedroom. It's all fun! I don't think the enjoyment of one precludes the enjoyment of the other!



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The moon looks on many flowers, the flowers on but one moon.

[tracer]

Drain Bead wrote:

Most of the guys I played D&D with were the same way.

They were female too? :)

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I'm not flying fast, just orbiting low.

[Satan]

Byz:

As amusing is your retirt, I was simply pointing out that the main participants in D&D were geeky guys, and while I certainly qualified, I had a desire to not get caught up too much in it because of the company I would enevitably keep forever as a result.

It is the same line of reasoning I never became a Trekkie.

But thank you for playing! We have some nice parting gifts, including Turtle Wax and Samsonite luggage!

[tracer]

Satan wrote:

It is the same line of reasoning I never became a Trekkie.

Well, obviously. If you were a real Star Trek fan, you'd have called yourself a trekkER. ;)

tracer, who knows both Warp Speed formulas.

[Suzeanne]

I must have been lucky in high school. While most of us could have been considered geeks (top 5%, honour role, crap like that), there were some damn good-looking geeks in our playing group. There were times that I was the only girl, but it was rare.

College, of course, brought BattleTech, and then I was definitely the only woman playing. Then again, I was also the only female on campus to be running one of the games, too.

After 20 years of playing offline, I'm still playing (D&D, Shadowrun, BattleTech), still running the occasional game, and running a few online as well. I'm also currently fighting an addiction to Baldur's Gate, and those of you that recommended it, I can't decide if I want to thank you or strangle you.

Final Fantasy VII didn't do it. My husband plays it now. Oh well, I didn't really want to be using the PlayStation anyway.

[Byzantine]

Satan– man, I don't know WHO you played with but the players in my circle were anything but geeks! We had all kinds of folks, from all walks of life and all ages, who played in the games.

Sorry, but I need to swing my arm around and give myself a pat on the back here for developing some of the most popular adventures. It wasn't just monsters and treasure it was an unfolding story of why this stronghold or dungeon was mostly abandoned. People played for the story (well, and possibly the beer and chips and stuff we laid out) but I think it was more for the story.

Thanks for the luggage but I wonder if your interest would have faded if you would have had better partners. Oh, well, not like you have that problem NOW or anything!

Kisses all around!

[Satan]

Byzantine:

I not only played locally in a DC suburb in Virginia, but I went to a couple of gaming conventions as well.

GEEKS!

Not that I am above geekiness. Hell, I'm definitely still a geek! But every involvement I had with role playing games, the demographic was 92% male and 100% geek.

[ChiefScott]

Says Satan:
"Not that I am above geekiness. Hell, I'm definitely still a geek!"

I hope the anti-Christ is less of a disappointment!

[matt_mcl]

I'm so much more attracted to geeks than I am to big stupid jocks. Learn, people.

[bj0rn]

what an interesting concept...geeks and role play!
and somehow you all also spell out the wrong words for what role play is. for the ones who have played the game, they know what it is, but do not nessicerally know how to explain it. tell me one thing, are actors considered geeks? no? why? are sport joks (however its spelled ;)) considered stupid?
yes? why? the same goes for blondes, jewes, americans, and bloody well the moon too! in this world we have alot of things considered common amongst all people who have that thing in common...

now may i enlighten you a bit about "role playing", its true that some people call it "roll playing", but that is when all the players do is throw dices...its not the art of the role. what it really is is acting, its a stage set in your mind where you have to exercise your imagination in the same way as writers and actors do every day. some are better at it than others...of course, who ever said all men were equal?? i just say that person was dead wrong...(dont misunderstand what im saying here).

now the geek question...what do you consider a geek??.....ah...the hell with it, im going to make a thread about it..see you there

bj0rn

[Kat]

English to German to English to Italian to English:
which for the geeks and... played to interest of role of a concept! and all them ortografano in some way equally from the false words for that role that they know the game for those, that they have played the game, that is, but nessicerally that they are, explain to me one what explains them cannot farla, is the actors, that they apply the geeks? Not? why? Sportjoks (however relative ortografato) is considered like stupid? yes? why? the same one goes for the blond socket, of the jewes, bleeding American and the moon equally! in this world we alot what for consider between all people for general whom what land... hour I can illuminarlo a bit over " the role in order to play ", relative applicable that the call of people has joined it " role game ", but the relative one if all the players of d relative the Cuba shooting... relative not the art of d of the role of d that relative it relative really to the function, relative an arrest of the phase in your understanding where you must esercitarli exactly fantasy same like the authors and means of the actor in order to make jed the united day for being well to it like more ander... naturally, to all the all relative man directly? The hour that even goes to the legend in that geekfrage absolutely false of the person... (dont it comprises badly was here, than in saying).... that to consider the geek??.....ah... like the hell with it, a thread over it..see here to the shape

No, seriously, what the hell did you just say??
"somehow you all also spell out the wrong words for what role play is."?? You should talk.
Next time, try using correct (1) spelling (2) grammar (3) punctuation and (4) capitalization and perhaps you will create a post that has actual meaning, instead of a bunch of gobbeldygook.

[andros]

Oh, be nice to him, Kat. He's FOREIGN. As he insists on reminding us.

"Shut up about my lack of English skills! It's my second language!"

That doesn't keep your posts from SUCKING ROOT, BjOrnie.


And BTW, why oh why do we keep bringing this fucking post back to the top? Brithael lives!!


-andros-

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"Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner

[bj0rn]

ohh...capitalization there...just because you have a malfunctioned brain ill explain it to you in a simple language:

einfaldlega sagt, þú ert þokkalegur fáviti ef þú ert að halda því fram að allir eigi að tala fullkomna ensku bara svo að þú getir skilið hvað allir aðrir eru að segja. það er alger óþarfi að heimta það að heimska gangi fyrir því ef svo væri hefði heimurinn aldrei fundið ameríku.

þetta er í mínum huga einfalt tungumál...þó að það sé í raun flóknara en enska, málfræðilega séð það er...þá skil ég nú af hverju enska hefur verið einfölduð.

if you dont understand this, then its because you have a different simple language!

its not my fault you are stupid...

bj0rn

[Cap'n Crude]

Ahhh, HERE we go!! Now it's the ol' BBQ Pit we know and love.

Go to your corners, and at the sound of the bell come out flaming.

*DINNG*

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--Da Cap'n

[andros]

(beating slabs of meat in the cooler)
whiff-whiff-whiff-whiff
"I'm the boss, I'm the boss, I'm the boss."

"Ya gotta have the eye of the tiger, ya bum!"

"Yo! . . . Adriaaan!!"

-andros-

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"Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner

[andros]

just because you have a malfunctioned brain ill explain it
to you

Oh yeah? Well . . . you're a doo-doo poopy head. Nyah, nyah.

its not my fault you are stupid...

Christ in a Cuisinart, boy, is that the best you can do?

Chúpame, pendejo.

(Oh, look! I can insult you in another language! I must be cool!)

xxoo
-andros-



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"Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner

[bj0rn]

well now...doing my best or not has got nothing to do with your intelligence...you can do that all by yourself...im proud of you being so independent and fluent in more forms of expression than empathy. dont tell me you still dont get it?

bj0rn

[Kat]

Oh, be nice to him, Kat. He's FOREIGN. As he insists on reminding us.

"Shut up about my lack of English skills! It's my second language!"

BFD. I know plenty of people on the Internet for whom English is a second language who don't come off as blithering idiots. If they wish to participate in a forum that is conducted in English, they need to make the effort to post in comprehensible English, just as if I chose to participate in a forum conducted in French, Spanish, Russian, German, etc., etc., I would have to make an effort to make comprehensible posts in that language.

if you dont understand this, then its because you have a different simple language!

See my comment above, doofus.

[bj0rn]

first of all, you are wrong about one thing...im not foreign...you are! ;)

if you cant understand what im saying, even if it is written in a language somewhat similar to english, it isnt my problem, and it certainly shouldnt be your problem either...if you cant bloody well understand what im saying anyway...so why dont you bugger off and conduct your doofusing activities where people care!

bj0rn

[andros]

well now...doing my best or not has got nothing to do with your intelligence...you
can do that all by yourself...im proud of you being so independent and fluent in
more forms of expression than empathy. dont tell me you still dont get it?

Can someone please translate this for me? I think there might be a flame in it somewhere. But I can't parse it well enough to be sure.

BjOrnie, keep 'em coming. I need comic relief like your posts. My co-workers make far too much sense; I really appreciate your incomprehensible blather.

And, while we're still in the Pit, FOAD.

xxoo,
-andros-

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"Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!" Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner

[andros]

translation provided upon request.

[tracer]

Kat wrote:

If they wish to participate in a forum that is conducted in English, they need to make the effort to post in comprehensible English, just as if I chose to participate in a forum conducted in French, Spanish, Russian, German, etc., etc., I would have to make an effort to make comprehensible posts in that language.

Mi ne kredas, ke mi devas skribi en la Angla en c^i tiu forumo.

[Sake Samurai]

One interesting thing about the game was that you could almost always tell what type of character a person role-played by their appearance:

Socially retarded dweeb with a slight funk = Mage or Mighty Barbarian!

That person trying REAL hard to believe in wicca wearing pentagram and/or celtic knot is just bound to be a Cleric

Guy or gal clad in all black = Necromancer or Evil Paladin (might even draw their own Evil symbol and recite amusing chant)

Real short dude = Thief

Unicorn-loving overweight woman = Amozonian warrior

That's one of the great things about the game. . .Fantasy!

[Kat]

if you cant understand what im saying, even if it is written in a language somewhat similar to english, it isnt my problem, and it certainly shouldnt be your problem either...if you cant bloody well understand what im saying anyway...so why dont you bugger off and conduct your doofusing activities where people care!

Well, similar to English in that you use English words. However, English tends to use those words to create sentences and paragraphs with some sort of meaning, rather than just sticking a bunch of random words together, with occasional ellipses, to create something that looks like a three-year-old might end up with after playing with a magnetic poetry set.

Yes, it is your problem, because you are wasting your time posting messages that are totally incomprehensible, so what is the point of even posting them? Why are you even here if you have no interest in contributing?

And you are absolutely right that it is not my problem, which is why I don't choose to waste my time trying to make sense out of your gibberish. I do, however, reserve the right to mock your incomprehensible posts as I see fit. You don't like it? Stop posting the gibberish.

For andros:
English to German to English:
the recess... my best doing or anything did not receive now, with your intelligence to do..., which you can do the fact that all through... being in proud on them so independently and flowing into more forms of the printout as if empathy. dont me explains that you still dont it received?

That result to Italian to English:
the socket... mine to make better or qualche.cosa hour has not received, with your intelligence to make..., that you can entire make the fact that with... being in fierce on they therefore independently and flowing in more shapes of the printout like if the dont of empathy. me it explained that you still dont that it has received?

HTH.

This thread was started long ago by a troll, so I'm going to go off-topic with absolutly no regret--

bj0rn, ni[v] de ying[-]y'u'[v] bu[\] hen[v] hao[v]. ni[v] ma[-]ma shi[\] wo[v] nu[v] peng[-]you. ni[v] ba[\]ba shi[\] ni[v] nan[-] peng[-]you.

--John

[Czarcasm]

Let's cut through all this crap and get back to the subject at hand-Dungeons and Dragons.
This is how we play here-AD&D Players Handbook, 2nd Edition(NO PSIONICS!), AD&D Dungeon Keepers Guide, The Original Monster Manual. No Monty Hauls. No player-as-gods. No arguing with the Dungeon Master. Absolutely NO bringing in outside books, charts, manuals, or other distracting crap. The game is gonna last until that scenario is done, so bring lots of high-fat munchies and plenty of caffiene. Anybody here up for a game? :-).

[AuraSeer]

slythe, if you're in or near St. Louis, I'll join your game in a hot minute.

[Kat]

Slythe--do you take newbies* and how far from Chicago are you?

*We played the original version of D&D for a couple of months way back when it first came out, but I've done nothing D&D since then.

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"The secret of life is, there ain't no secret, and you don't get your money back."

[ExTank]

Sign me up.

And I promise not to shoot anyone when the death dice gank me.

<FONT COLOR="GREEN">ExTank</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="BLUE">"What? Another 1 on a d20? Who in the party did I kill this time?"</FONT>

[Czarcasm]

Sorry, but we play it wet and wild here in Portland, Oregon.
And ExTank, As DM, I'LL do all the fragging!

[pmh]

Slythe:

Amen.

Glad to see somebody still remembers the #1 rule (No arguing with the Dungeon Master). BTW, here it is referred to as the Red Dragon Weenie Rule - any argument w/ the DM results in 1-on-1 combat w/ said red dragon.

[Lynn Bodoni]

{{This is how we play here-AD&D Players Handbook, 2nd Edition(NO PSIONICS!), }}

What, no monks? I love monks! They're a real challenge to play.

Oh, and I can be persuaded to bring a lasagna for dinner. Particularly if the DM takes bribes.

I'm delighted to read that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE is not buying into all the character kits.

Lynn
Have polyhedral dice, will travel.

[Czarcasm]

Lynn, I am current reviewing my policy on burnt sacrifices. ;).
Sorry, people, but if it ain't in the book I use, I won't allow it. And I confiscate all DM Guides at the door, because the ways of the DM are not yours to know.

[glee]

Slythe,
Sounds like you've got a fine game going - keep it up.
My group started when the books (PH 1, MM1) first came over the pond, so all of us had DM'd before the DM guide arrived - we didn't know any other way to do it.
So now we have a supplement of rule extensions, and changes have to be agreed by all the DM's. (It is still fun, luckily!)
Do you only have one DM?

[Czarcasm]

I am always DM because the group has determined that slythe is too damn devious to be trusted as a player-character. slythe would back-stab a god if he had half a chance at getting his or her perse!

[bj0rn]

slythe, one word of advise from a fellow DM.
do let the player bring in their dm guides.
trust me on this, its wonderful to watch the player quiver in fear because they know that what they just encountered isnt written down in the dm's guide...and they dont have a clue (or a book) on what to make of it.
then you add a something little extra to em orcs, like extra str or a couple of levels and what seemed like a normal group of orcs and goblins turns out to be a nightmare.
once i managed to make 10 gnolls (unmodified)
take down a 5 player party, each player lvl 6 or 7. i was also dm-ing a character on 7th lvl who had never won a fight. point being...the dm is always right (within the normal boundries of the rules) and the players always commit suicide.

and by the way, i hate kits, specially the ones in "classes" handbooks...

bj0rn

[glee]

bj0rn,
I'm a bit puzzled by your last post. I agree it's good to modify monsters (different tribe, cross-breeding etc.) so the players are kept on their toes.
Also my group, as I said above, are all Dm's, and I agree it doesn't matter that we've all read the books.
But I don't understand the rest.
Why is it good to have 10 gnolls take out a 6th level party? Shouldn't players at that level be experienced enough to cope?
I can imagine a 7th level character (perhaps a Paladin) never having won a fight. He could be a supreme diplomat, using honesty, intelligence and even guile. But your post implies that he's been in a lot of fights - and lost them all. Since you're in control, shouldn't he have fairer opposition?
Finally I assume you meant by 'the players always commit suicide' that your players make a lot of mistakes and frequently get killed. Can't you put in a Wise Hermit or similar to offer advice?

[Czarcasm]

Sorry, but if everyone has the ghod book, the game slows down to a crawl while every decision I make is looked up. The players use the Players Handbook, and if they prey(oops.. make that "pray") properly they might get to look at the Monster Manual.

[AuraSeer]

Aren't there any decent gamers in the state of Missouri?

[glee]

Slythe,
No offence intended (I'm not really a Pit person!), but why would giving the players the DM Guide mean that they then look up every decision of yours? Surely all they need is consistency and trust?
My main campaign players (all DM's) might mention something politely (e.g. if they think I've made a gross blunder), but none of them want to interrupt the flow of the game. (I think it makes me a better DM if I play regularly).
I also run the game at my School, and I admit I don't show them the DM Guide. But firstly I think it is more exciting for beginners, and secondly we only have a couple of hours each week for each group.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Slythe: Burnt sacrifices? My lasagnas are never BURNT. I generally have at least two people checking them constantly for doneness, whether I want such help or not.

Auraseer: Well, I did live in Missouri, but not voluntarily. My brother played, too. I don't think he plays any more, though.

Currently, I play Gemstone III. Look for Granita Smithdott, dwarven warrior. She has the Feather of Doom.


------------------
Lynn the Packrat

[ExTank]

Slythe, that tagline was in reference to a game where my 2nd-Level Fighter, armed with a bastard sword, did more damage to our 2nd-3rd Level group (and himself!) with three consecutive rolls of a 1 on a d20.

Our mage lost his head, our thief lost an arm and eventually would have died, and our cleric was down for the count.

We laughed so hard we fell off our chairs and cried, and then with the DM's mutual consent, agreed that it never happened and started the combat over again (after taking my d20 and tossing it out the window ;))

For the rest of that campaign, my Fighter was forced outside the group's circle of protection during combat, which made saving throws interesting once the mage mastered fireballs.

<FONT COLOR="GREEN">ExTank</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="BLUE">"...and 'ware the gank-dice, for doth they ever roll poorly at inopportune moments."</FONT>

[Yankee Blue]

My God, but you have to wade through a lot of shit here it the Pit, I almost didn't get to the end of the posts.

I'm with slythe, I hate gamers who try to second the GM. Rules are for the GM to know, although I've learned many of them over the years, as a player and not a GM I made a concerted effort NOT to do any extra curricular reading in the manuals and source books for the various games. I'll have to give your game a miss since there is a continent between us, but we've been Cyberpunking and White Wolfing lately anyway.

------------------

...at night, the ice weasels come...

[Czarcasm]

Sorry, but so far I refuse to cyber-game. The pizza is crappy, and nobody remembers to bring the beer.
ExTank, I once managed to off my entire party before we left the inn. I needed a box to put a map in, and dumped out the deck of many wonders into a bag of holding for safe-keeping. The DM just shook his head and said,"Do you want me to roll on this, or do you want to start creating new characters after a bathroom break?"

[Sake Samurai]

The way I've always seen it is Fuck the Books - all of them.

Sure I use them as the loose framework to construct my adventures, but they are just one of the many tools I use.

The minute they slow things down - into the fire they go (I still fondly remember the frenzied fire-cleansing we performed on the DM Guide of a nit-picking player who never once DMed, but would always bring the damn book to our games and challenge my every decision).

Those books become a crutch to most players (and DMs) - there is nothing sacrosanct about them.

[bj0rn]

Why is it good to have 10 gnolls take out a 6th level party? Shouldn't players at that level be experienced enough to cope?


the thing is that the players expected it to be an easy fight, simple as that. now they have realized that a sword in the hand of an enemy could mean death. what i really dislike are player characters who think they can take em all out, dont get me wrong...they can try, but im not going to make it easy.


I can imagine a 7th level character (perhaps a Paladin) never having won a fight. He could be a supreme diplomat, using honesty, intelligence and even guile. But your post implies that he's been in a lot of fights - and lost them all. Since you're in control, shouldn't he have fairer opposition?


i always present the players with options, he always picked the worst option (that is the most difficult one) but somehow managed to come through it alive, thus he's level 7 (hes been through alot)


Finally I assume you meant by 'the players always commit suicide' that your players make a lot of mistakes and frequently get killed. Can't you put in a Wise Hermit or similar to offer advice?

no, they dont die that often. quite rarely accually. its real simple...you present em with a few options, everything from run to charge and they value out their chances. they know that high risks mean high rewards and low risk mean that they make it through it alive unless they fall over and break their own necks. i rather enjoy when players make mistakes, although i do not have too utilize their mistake (that would be unfair), i on the other hand add a complication. that one of course depends on the situation the characters face, but shouldnt really be critical to the outcome of their actions.

bj0rn