Chuck vs. Reaper

[Charlie Tan]

Two nerds/geeks stuck in retail hell. One backed by Kevin Smith, the other by McG. Reaper had the strongest pilot of any network this fall, and then... nothing. Just more of the same stuff.
Chuck, otoh, seemed flat and has gotten increasingly more interesting. Both shows are silly, in the basic premise, but where it's believable that Sarah Walker* could warm up to Chuck, it's not believable that cute girl in Reaper would not fall for whatshisface.
If both shows get cancelled tomorrow, I'll miss Chuck, but not Reaper. Basically, Chuck is more fun, better drama, more entertaining.



*Yvonne Strahovski is a super babe. Adam Baldwin is great too, even though he doesn't get my testosterone flowing.

[Glory]

I didn't get a chance to watch the Reaper pilot (I was traveling) but I absolutely adore Chuck. I think Chuck is getting better and better, loved last night's episode with Captain Awesome and "tucking," the sandworm costume and the sandwich debate (particularly Adam Baldwin's expression). Love love love! Also love the music choices. It is my favorite new show this year and the only show I would make a special effort to see if I missed it.

[Ephemera]

Chuck is one of only two new shows I'm watching this season. Pushing Daisies is the other.

[shy guy]

I disagree. I think Reaper has been really solid since it started up while Chuck started off pretty strong and has been getting progressively less interesting.

Reaper might be stuck in a holding pattern, but it seems to me to be developing a lot like Buffy did at first - lots of Monster of the Week episodes that seem to be leading to something bigger.

Chuck seems to me like something that would have worked better as a movie. A lot of the aspects that it shares with Reaper don't really fly with me just because of how serious the government agents take things, whereas the Devil in Reaper is a pretty goofy guy, so I can see why he lets Sam keep his job, old life, etc.

The humor in Reaper also appeals to me a lot more. If Adam Baldwin were a regular on Reaper there's nothing I'd like better about Chuck

[Cat Whisperer]

I'm going to have to get in the "Chuck" camp, too, for the same reasons as the OP. Reaper is boring me; I have to keep watching to find out what the deal is with the damned contract, but if there wasn't that, I'd stop right now. Chuck is just getting better and better. MORE ADAM BALDWIN!!!!!!!! Much, much more Adam Baldwin. And maybe his shirt could just - you know, fall off once in a while. Oh, Chuck is adorable, too, in a realistic I-would-totally-date-that-guy kind of way.

Is it just me, or are Chuck and his sister waaaay too close for families outside of the Appalachians?

[Charlie Tan]

It's interesting that Baldwin is very good as a very tough guy and also very good at comedy in a very dry understated way.

I wrote the OP when I realized that I'm looking forward to Chuck and not so much Reaper and that the Big Mystery in Chuck isn't very interesting, but the interaction among the characters is. The Big Mystery in Reaper is not very interesting either, but th characters are getting richer every episode.

[Anduinel]

Reaper doesn't have much going for it except Ray Wise, but he's enough to keep me interested (mostly because I can't help but see him as Leland Palmer).

[Charlie Tan]

but th characters are getting richer every episode.
and th characters aren't getting richer every episode.

[Liberal]

Agree with Shy Guy. Reaper isn't about getting the girl; it's about getting the devil — or more specifically, getting out of the contract with the devil. I like Reaper much better than Chuck.

[Smid]

Only watched the pilots, and as people said, Reapers was stronger, so I may revise this opinion...

Chuck struck me as pretty much Alias from the poor bloke who wasn't in the CIA's viewpoint. Its probably unfair, theres no proof that people going to a nightclub in Latvia (excuse to wear another outfit and wig) will find an international spy organisations Nerve Gas manufacturing division in the door beside the toilets...

Then again, I got the impression _they might_.

Nice stunts though...

Reaper made me laugh loads though. If it stays the same, its good for me...

[Einmon]

Another vote for Chuck, which I would not have guessed from the pilots, where I liked Reaper much better.

Reaper has not really done anything with its premise - it's always the same MO: Main guy wakes up to weird power (which never really does anything, it's just THERE), Devil doesn't tell him anything about anything, soul is found somehow, vessel doesn't work, more stuff happens (usually with the girl), vessel works, THE END. Also, I hate the stoner friend. I just like the Devil, and that's getting stretched thin.

Chuck, on the other hand, has similar plotlines each week, but you get to have actual character development and background. They actually made me like Morgan in the last episode! And the sandwich discussion was priceless (as was Adam Baldwin's face). Even though I can't agree with Chuck about the mayonnaise.

[Liberal]

Reaper has not really done anything with its premise - it's always the same MO: Main guy wakes up to weird power (which never really does anything, it's just THERE), Devil doesn't tell him anything about anything, soul is found somehow, vessel doesn't work, more stuff happens (usually with the girl), vessel works, THE END.That simply isn't true. Again, this show isn't Friends-Lite. It's not about relationships with girls and buddies. It's about a good guy trapped in a fate of working for the Lord of Evil, who, thanks to the writers, is truly truly evil: "You WILL do it. Or I'll take your mother." The idea is for him to handle what he has to — reaping the souls — while trying his damnedest to figure out (1) how he got into this mess, and (2) how to get out of it. And so this past week, he got hold of his contract, which turned out to be almost as large a volume as the US federal budget, and is written in Latin. THAT is where the plot is headed. He will be scrutinizing the contract for a way out, and the devil will be making it harder and harder to do. There is movement in the plot; it's just that you're looking for something that isn't there and isn't supposed to be.

[Khadaji]

I haven't seen Chuck since it is on opposite something else that I record. I like Reaper well enough, but if it were dropped I wouldn't miss it too much.

[Maus Magill]

That simply isn't true. Again, this show isn't Friends-Lite. It's not about relationships with girls and buddies. It's about a good guy trapped in a fate of working for the Lord of Evil, who, thanks to the writers, is truly truly evil: "You WILL do it. Or I'll take your mother." The idea is for him to handle what he has to — reaping the souls — while trying his damnedest to figure out (1) how he got into this mess, and (2) how to get out of it. And so this past week, he got hold of his contract, which turned out to be almost as large a volume as the US federal budget, and is written in Latin. THAT is where the plot is headed. He will be scrutinizing the contract for a way out, and the devil will be making it harder and harder to do. There is movement in the plot; it's just that you're looking for something that isn't there and isn't supposed to be.
Of course, it doesn't help that Sam's Dad is tearing out and burning pages of the contract.

[Cat Whisperer]

Of course, it doesn't help that Sam's Dad is tearing out and burning pages of the contract.
Yeah - apparently, the relevant pages. I want to see how that plays out, but I'm already tired of his hiding things from Andy (although we understand why better now), and I'm tired of his parents hiding things. Basically, for me the show is doing something I particularly hate (hiding things when a simple explanation would clear everything up), and that is pretty much the only thing driving the plot. And Sam's ambiguously evil dad.

[Orual]

Chuck makes me laugh. It's got Adam Baldwin and makes fun dork-references (i.e. Chuck and his best friend dress up as Shai-Hulud for Halloween. Shai-Hulud!!!) I think it's gotten better as time goes on and as Chuck's relationships with his family and friends are shown more.

I gave Reaper a shot. It was the episode with the magician. I was bored and unimpressed with the acting.

Besides, there is only one spot in my head for shows with main characters named Sam doing battle with demonic evildoers. And I prefer the one with the shotguns and the cool car.

[Menocchio]

I saw the pilot for Reaper. Wasn't impressed. I've seen it before. It was the premise of Brimstone written with the attitude of a less-inspired episode of Buffy. Only character I liked was the Devil, and the rest of the plot didn't work for me at all.

I'm surprised by how much I like Chuck. The characters are all just too charming (except for Harry Tang) to not like it.

[shy guy]

I agree with everything Liberal said, and he said it a lot better than I could.

Another problem I have with Chuck is that I just don't really like any of the characters except Adam Baldwin. I find myself really not caring what happens to Chuck himself or his female handler. Chuck's friend Morgan drives me up the wall and, for me, ruins just about every scene he's in.

On the other hand, I like the characters in Reaper. Sam actually has a reason for being as much of a loser as he is (his parents have pampered him his entire life because of the contract), and is slowly beginning to get some momentum behind his life. I think Sock is pretty funny, and I'm even starting to like what's-his-face, Sam's other co-worker who gets hurt all the time.

I guess I like the formulaic aspect of the episodes thus far. Like Liberal said, a lot of the elements of the show are just there to be funny and move the characters along while more important stuff happens.

[don't ask]

I am still watching Reaper but stopped watching Chuck halfway through episode 3 - I was interrupted by a neighbour and couldn't be bothered rewinding to see the rest of the show. Upon realising that I didn't care I stopped downloading it.

[What Exit?]

I am watching both shows still and Pushing Daisies which I love.

I like the fact that Chuck is improving week to week. This weeks show was quite good. Reaper has dropped off a lot from the pilot. However, Smith was only really heavily involved in the pilot. I am still watching it, but mostly as my daughter likes the show. I would still rather watch this piece of fantasy than a show like House or any of the CSIs.

I guess when a show starts with an impossible premise, I am more forgiving. House drives me insane with the stupidity of the show and the CSI brand tries to outdo each other for over the top clueless stupidity. I guess I want to laugh with the show and not at the show.

Jim

[Liberal]

Of course, it doesn't help that Sam's Dad is tearing out and burning pages of the contract.Exactly. Yet another obstacle. But there are always two copies of any valid contract.

EDIT:

Incidentally, Reaper never did a pilot. (A first episode is not necessarily a pilot.)

[MovieMogul]

I liked the Reaper pilot better and felt it had a much more promising premise. Sam's relationship with Satan is ripe with all sorts of intriguing possibilities, and it doesn't hurt that Ray Wise really mines both the menace and the playfulness in the role.

That said, I'd have to argue that that promise has been largely wasted. The devil is still the best thing about the show, but the love story is a supreme buzzkill (and while Andy may be cute GND material, she's merely a plot device and an actual snooze as a character). And Sock may be funny, but the character has yet to do anything that really surprises me beyond your classic slacker sidekick shtick.

But the real deal killer is Sam. He's boring and charmless, and that makes me less invested in his various plights (Andy, the contract, etc.). And unlike Buffy, I never get the sense that there's any real danger in his missions. Nobody's going to die, he'll use the vessell, drop off at the DMV, rinse, repeat. The best parts of the show are always Satan, because not only is he a real threat, but he's the only ounce of charisma in the show, and I always keep hoping he'll have some of that rub off on our "hero" so he can become marginally interesting.

I've seen all but one ep of Reaper, and while I gave it up last week, I thought the Halloween episode might be something special. Wrong! Not bad, but nothing worth writing home about either.

Chuck on the other hand, suffers from one real defect, and that's that the action sequences just aren't very well executed. Given that it's a bit of a cheesy show (intentionally), this is largely forgivable.

But with each episode, we learn more about Chuck and his relationships (w/Morgan, his sister, his handlers). While we may learn more about Sam's "situation", we actually haven't learned much more about him. Chuck is also a funnier lead in a more complex role. Having him play a slacker would be easier than having him play a guy who's a somewhat-motivated, somewhat-nerdy, somewhat-arrested guy who's genuinely talented but still a bit directionless.

Sam is motivated week by week largely by fear: if he doesn't play bounty hunter, the devil will get him (or someone he loves). But Chuck's situation taps into his inner potential more. He's compelled to play it suave, to be the hero, to juggle more commitments, and the writing does a much better job balancing this against his own character's real inclinations. We've also seen him make more mistakes--with his family, with the government. He's sympathetic, but he's also more fallible.

But that's true of all the characters--they're simply richer than Reaper's. Even the Buy More co-workers add more color than the largely anonymous Work Bench crew. Sock is a goofball but really another pea in Sam's pod, but Morgan is a loyal, semi-likable irritant whose friendship with Chuck speaks more about both of them. Sam's parents are usually MIA (unless the plot demands it), but Ellie is a real force in his life beyond his CIA shenanigans. And Captain Awesome is, well, awesome.

My vote goes for Chuck. Hands down. I hope Reaper gets better, but I won't be watching regularly to find out.

[Liberal]

But the real deal killer is Sam. He's boring and charmless...I completely disagree. I find him to be charming and endearing. And I've already debunked the frozen plot myth. Plus, I'll put Reaper's devil up against four characters of your choice from Chuck. He is perfectly cast, well scripted, and acts his part exquisitely.

[pricciar]

I love Chuck. It's a fun show. I like pretty much all of the actors, I think they do a good job of having both drama and comedy without falling into either camp too much. I don' t know how many seasons this premise can last, but for one season, it has been and hopefully will continue to be great. Baldwin is a high point, but I liked him going in. The lead actor has a geeky charm that is easy to enjoy, and the hot chick is nice to look at and pretty funny. They did a great job creating characters that are memorable and enjoyable. Mr Awesome? Yes. Awesome! Morgan is pretty funny. The actor who plays Morgan either looks a lot like, or is that guy from that GPS commercial who expresses his love for the GPS device. Which makes the character funnier for me. All of the other nerdherd folks are great in small supporting roles.

I haven't seen Reaper, so I cannot comment on that. But, I just wanted to say how much I liked Chuck. I am sure Reaper is good, too.

pat

ps:
The first episode of Reaper is called Pilot. So, in a way it does have a Pilot, whether it was a pilot or not.

[Liberal]

Star Trek had a pilot. Reaper did not.

[Maus Magill]

Star Trek had a pilot. Reaper did not.
Reaper did have a pilot. It just never aired.

The only change between the pilot and the series I know of, is that Andi regenerated.

[Lightnin']

I love both shows, and for some reason I can't shake the feeling that they're in the same universe. I keep expecting a crossover (even though they're on different networks- hey Chuck [NBC] had a Lost [ABC] reference, so a guy can dream, right?).

[Geobabe]

Is it just me, or are Chuck and his sister waaaay too close for families outside of the Appalachians?They have explained that, though, with the whole "Mother's Day" thing, that their mom left when they were kids, so they've had to rely on each other and thus became much closer than siblings usually are.

[TroubleAgain]

I love Chuck and all the characters therein. I love the development of characters over the development of plot, I guess. And I'm looking forward to next week, when we're supposed to find out more about Bryce.

[dropzone]

One "Chuck" segment I wish I'd taped was when Sarah was fighting in her bathrobe and did a roundhouse kick that appeared to show that, contrary to TV conventions, people on their way to the shower don't wear panties beneath their bathrobes. Sure, most people who live alone don't bother with the bathrobes, either, but we accept what we are given.

[Unauthorized Cinnamon]

I didn't like Chuck much after seeing the pilot, but it has really grown on me. I kept watching due to Adam Baldwin, and the fact that Chuck calls his BIL Captain Awesome, which made me laugh. Subsequent episodes have built on the good stuff, and I'm really enjoying it now. Only one major misstep: Casey is duped by the feminine wiles of the DEA chick, and winds up tied to the hotel bed - practically fully clothed. What were they thinking? He clearly needed to be a lot more naked. But otherwise a good show.

But I like Reaper too. If it really came down to it, and I had to chose one over the other, I'd probably pick Chuck, just because the Andi business in Reaper has already gotten old. Sam - STOP MAKING DATES/PROMISING TO BE SOMEWHERE with Andi! Chuck had this as a driving problem for one episode, but Reaper keeps hauling it out week after week.

[Lightnin']

One "Chuck" segment I wish I'd taped was when Sarah was fighting in her bathrobe and did a roundhouse kick that appeared to show that, contrary to TV conventions, people on their way to the shower don't wear panties beneath their bathrobes. Sure, most people who live alone don't bother with the bathrobes, either, but we accept what we are given.

All hail the mighty DVR and HDTV combo. I saw that scene... and had to rewind and pause. Nope, she was wearing panties. Still, it was an impressive scene.

[Epimetheus]

I always catch the end of Chuck while waiting for Heroes to start. Not sure it appeals much to me, or at least enough to take time out of my busy schedule to watch it like I do Heroes. I would watch it if I had nothing better to do.

I watch Reaper, but am slowly being bored by it. I'm not there yet, I am still laughing and like the story, but where is his power? He had a power on the first episode and after that he didn't. He had slippery feet once, if that counts as a "power," but it seems like he is generally cursed with something relating to the bad guy. This episode it was a dog, no other power, nothing.

[shy guy]

Sam doesn't really get "powers."

Stuff like the slippery feet and the bugs appearing whenever he tried to put something in his mouth are just the Devil fucking with him, a clue as to the whereabouts of the next escaped soul, and an incentive for Sam to get off his ass and do his job. They're not meant to be useful aside from pointing him toward the soul; they're supposed to be annoying. The Devil is constantly making Sam's job difficult for him.

[Epimetheus]

He had the telekinesis power in episode 1.

[Cat Whisperer]

They have explained that, though, with the whole "Mother's Day" thing, that their mom left when they were kids, so they've had to rely on each other and thus became much closer than siblings usually are.
Sorry, I should have been more clear - even with the "explanation," they still seem way too close for your average adult siblings.

[medstar]

I completely disagree. I find him to be charming and endearing. And I've already debunked the frozen plot myth. Plus, I'll put Reaper's devil up against four characters of your choice from Chuck. He is perfectly cast, well scripted, and acts his part exquisitely.

I've watched some episodes of Chuck and have enjoyed them. As others have mentioned, Adam Baldwin is fantastic. Just for grins and giggles, I'd love to see him cast as a blueblood at a fancy dinner confronted with disasters, one right after the other--a mashup of Dinner at Eight and Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. I think he'd be a scream. I love watching Reaper and Ray Wise is overwhelmingly the reason why. He's a scary Cary Grant, and I'm never sure whether he's mentoring Sam and forcing him to grow up, screwing with his head just because he can, or both at the same time.

Sam is starting to show baby steps in growth. He didn't just let Andi go without making his case for a second chance. In the last scene of the Halloween episode, he actually stood up to the Devil and told him he was starting to be able to tell when he was lying. There's lots of little vignettes like this in the few episodes of Reaper that I've seen. I only hope that the CW network gives the show at least a full season at it's current day and time in order to build an audience, much like Buffy got.

[Einmon]

I completely disagree. I find him to be charming and endearing. And I've already debunked the frozen plot myth. Plus, I'll put Reaper's devil up against four characters of your choice from Chuck. He is perfectly cast, well scripted, and acts his part exquisitely.You've "debunked" the frozen plot myth? It seemed to me like you said that there was an overarching story arc that we just didn't get. Well, I get that there will be pay-off regarding the contract eventually, but contract here, Devil there, there still is not a lot of deviation from the soul-of-the-week-formula in each episode. I wish they had executed the idea in a more exciting way each week, instead of me having to wait for Sam to find out that his parents did not really sign over his soul, or that there is a most excellent loophole which will be exploited in Season 2.

And I actually agree with you that the Devil is great (I love Ray Wise, he just finds the right balance between hamminess and menace). But I'd put him up against Harry Tang in a Cowboy costume any day. Or Big Mike and his Zen Garden. Or Captain Awesome teaching Morgan to tuck his shirt. Point being: One character should not have to carry the weight of the whole show, because if the Devil's not in a scene, that scene loses.

shy guy, yeah, I used "powers" in the loosest sense of the word. But they usually just get showcased in the first 5 minutes of an episode and then you never (or rarely) hear from them again. Why not have them mess up the soul-taking once in a while instead of just the vessel misfiring? Or vice versa, assist the soul-taking. As is, they (at least to me) seem more like filler until you get to the "real" plot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disliking Reaper, which is why I am still watching it week after week, and which is why I'm hoping for improvement; but if you ask me to pick which one I like better, I'll go with Chuck.

[What Exit?]

shy guy, yeah, I used "powers" in the loosest sense of the word. But they usually just get showcased in the first 5 minutes of an episode and then you never (or rarely) hear from them again. Why not have them mess up the soul-taking once in a while instead of just the vessel misfiring? Or vice versa, assist the soul-taking. As is, they (at least to me) seem more like filler until you get to the "real" plot.
Well this weeks show had a variation of the Snow Globe not being disposed, the escapee being a real minor historical figure of major history making, two souls instead of one. A soul actually ready to return to hell. I would say they did break out of their rut this week.

Jim

[Einmon]

I hadn't watched that episode yet...that's what I'm talking about! Much better. It gave us character development (incidentally, similar to what happened in Chuck with regards to our hero working out things with his immature sidekick), fun, some drama, and Ted in a Captain Jack outfit. What's not to like?

Also, I came back to mention another thing I like about Reaper, and that is that the bad consequences of evil escaping are quite palpable. There's a girl missing and it's not one of those things where she's kidnapped and the gang has to rescue her in the nick of time, and everybody has a great laugh afterwards. No, she's already dead, and more people will die if you don't do what the Devil says.

[Liberal]

I do think Socks has the hots for Sam, though. There've been two or three very distinct, though fleeting, homoerotic moments there.

[shy guy]

I do think Socks has the hots for Sam, though. There've been two or three very distinct, though fleeting, homoerotic moments there.

Sheesh, I'd say that's a conservative estimate.

I swear if you listen you can hear the tap-tap-tap of slash fic writers' keyboards going off like mad at least a few times each episode.

[Cat Fight]

Liked Chuck's first episode. Okay, just the first scene in the big white room. And lurve Adam Baldwin. But the main character just isn't cute or charismatic enough, especially when everyone around him is constantly saying things like 'For some reason, people seem to like you.' Like a poor woman's Jimmy Fallon. And the sidekick is a poor woman's Charlie Day.

Oh, and I'm not a huge fan of the 20-something hot chick finding a reason to strip down in every. single. episode.

[Geobabe]

Oh, and I'm not a huge fan of the 20-something hot chick finding a reason to strip down in every. single. episode.Blasphemy!

[foolsguinea]

I saw part of the Chuck pilot, & thought it was too slapstick & dumb. But I saw a later episode & it was kind of cute.