Pushing Daisies 10/31: "Girth"

[jayjay]

The Halloween episode! Woooo-ooooo-ooooo!

Loved this! The Seussian narration, the Olive backstory, Barbara Barrie as the bitchiest mama ever! LOVE. IT.

Jock-Off! HAH! I love how this show gets away with these little touches.

We do find out that the fruit in his pies does, indeed, go bad if he touches it again. Ned's dad's an ass. The scene on the porch between Vivian and Ned was SO sad and sweet.

The jockey bar ("We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone over 60" tall"). Emerson is the pure embodiment of snark, as usual. "Hello? Olive's money? It's Emerson."

So how did they explain to Olive how they knew about the oath? And who was actually responsible for cutting the girth?

"You know that old song: I scream, you scream, we all scream I faked my own death."

TWO WEEKS, dammit! Stupid CMAs...

[chambraigne]

I also liked this episode. I laughed out loud quite a few times. Emerson's discussion with the money was great.

One thing that bothered me, though... how come the horse was able to breathe fire out of its nostrils? Normally, I'll accept just about any quirky thing in this show, but this one fact seemed to not make much sense even within the world of the show.

There was one plot point that seemed nonsensical at the time, but which one in particular is escaping me at the moment.

[What Exit?]

Wait, first of all, I have to wait two weeks for the stupid, useless CMA's. Crap, that is just wrong. One more reason to hate country music. ;)

I enjoyed this episode. Olive looked great with the long hair. I liked the crack by the evil mom about Olive still not having a man and pointing out her cleavage. Of course, in the scene Chuck was covered up.

The Bartender was the one that actually cut the girth. The 4 jockeys got together after the race and realized that the girth was cut, that it was not an accident. For some reason all 3 male jockeys decided to hide the fact and brow beat Olive into going along.

I love the aunts, they play off each other so well. I think at some point they might actually learn that Chuck is alive. The Parrot saying, "Help me, they changed me into a bird" was wonderful. Ellen Green is incredibly funny.

Jim

BTW: Barbara Barrie, was the Grandmother on Dead Like Me. She is always great in every role I have ever seen her. I loved her Mrs. Miller on Barney Miller. I've liked her in every little role since.

[PoorYorick]

I also like the nod to film noir during the dialog between Olive and Emerson. They were speaking in quick, clipped sentences while shadowed by what seemed to be the slats of venetian blinds.

[Sean Factotum]

So when Chuck and Ned were kids, Chuck lived next door to Ned, right? That's what I remember from the view out of the kitchen window in the first episode when Chuck's Dad was brutally murdered by Ned.

So Chuck's aunts lived across the street, then?

And if anyone here watches Ugly Betty tonight, drop back in and let me know if it is Kristen Chenowith and Idina Menzel in the roles of Glinda and Elphaba in the Wicked scenes. (They were the originals in the play, and just wonder if they reprised their roles in this upcoming episode.)

[Contrapuntal]

So how did they explain to Olive how they knew about the oath? And who was actually responsible for cutting the girth?.According to the voice over, they lied to her and told her that he had spontaneously revived just long enough to spill the beans. Pretty lame.

[Max the Immortal]

For some reason all 3 male jockeys decided to hide the fact and brow beat Olive into going along.

That was my favorite moment of this episode.
Narrator: Olive tried to protest.
Olive (weakly): no

[jayjay]

According to the voice over, they lied to her and told her that he had spontaneously revived just long enough to spill the beans. Pretty lame.

I'm trying to figure out how I keep missing this stuff. I was right there watching the show the whole hour but everyone keeps catching whole pieces of dialogue that went right past me!

[Contrapuntal]

I'm trying to figure out how I keep missing this stuff. I was right there watching the show the whole hour but everyone keeps catching whole pieces of dialogue that went right past me!I had it on DVR and had to rewind to catch it. It was right after a quick editing cut, IIRC, and I was expecting one of the foursome to speak, when the narrator chimed in with a little exposition. Easy to miss.

[ivylass]

So when Chuck and Ned were kids, Chuck lived next door to Ned, right? That's what I remember from the view out of the kitchen window in the first episode when Chuck's Dad was brutally murdered by Ned.



Ahem....Chuck's Dad was not "brutally" murdered. Ned was just learning about his powers and was unaware of the one minute rule. At the least, Chuck's dad's death was an accident.

I want Ned to confront his father for being a jackass.

I loved Emerson laughing his ass off when Olive told him she used to be a jockey. And I loved Chuck wearing a sheet and twirling on the aunt's front yard and moaning "boooooo" before she rang the doorbell for trick or treat.

"It's 2 in the morning! I'll get the candy."

"I'll get the gun."

I want Swoosie Kurtz to be my aunt.

[jayjay]

I want Swoosie Kurtz to be my aunt.

Isn't she fabulous?! I can't figure out how nobody ever thought of teaming Kurtz and Greene up before this. They complement each other so well.

[rockle]

I want Swoosie Kurtz to be my aunt.Me too. The aunts are fantastic.

Also -- you'll have to take my word for this, but I swear that it is true -- when I first logged into this thread, the Google ad had the headline "Undo Circumcision Damage." I was too stunned to remember to take a screen shot. Must be related to the "Girth" in the title.

[jayjay]

Me too. The aunts are fantastic.

Also -- you'll have to take my word for this, but I swear that it is true -- when I first logged into this thread, the Google ad had the headline "Undo Circumcision Damage." I was too stunned to remember to take a screen shot. Must be related to the "Girth" in the title.

Hey, rockle! C'mere! I wanna whisper something to you...


Closer...


Keoghan countdown P-3 days!

[What Exit?]

... And I loved Chuck wearing a sheet and twirling on the aunt's front yard and moaning "boooooo" before she rang the doorbell for trick or treat.

"It's 2 in the morning! I'll get the candy."

"I'll get the gun."

I want Swoosie Kurtz to be my aunt.
That was great, I also loved Ned's ghost costume of the kids sheets. Did I see that right, the dog had the pillow case on?

It seems like a miracle Ned is not a serial killer with how f'd up his life has been. Talk about guilt and abandonment issues. I can't help but be sympathetic for him.

Jim

[simster]

So when Chuck and Ned were kids, Chuck lived next door to Ned, right? That's what I remember from the view out of the kitchen window in the first episode when Chuck's Dad was brutally murdered by Ned.

So Chuck's aunts lived across the street, then?

And if anyone here watches Ugly Betty tonight, drop back in and let me know if it is Kristen Chenowith and Idina Menzel in the roles of Glinda and Elphaba in the Wicked scenes. (They were the originals in the play, and just wonder if they reprised their roles in this upcoming episode.)

The Aunt's moved in with Chuck after her dad died - there has yet to be a mention of Chuck's mother.

[Eleanor of Aquitaine]

When Emerson and Chuck were standing in front of JJJ's mother's house, talking beside the car, there was a big whooshing noise that was never explained. Anybody else hear that? Maybe it was the mother's flame thrower somewhere in the background?

I really like Emerson. "Don't sit there and pretend like that's a word everybody knows."

[jayjay]

When Emerson and Chuck were standing in front of JJJ's mother's house, talking beside the car, there was a big whooshing noise that was never explained. Anybody else hear that? Maybe it was the mother's flame thrower somewhere in the background?

I really like Emerson. "Don't sit there and pretend like that's a word everybody knows."

Was that the scene where the other jockey was leaning against the hood of the car? Because the TWOPpers are speculating about that. You notice that after Ned and Emerson ran off after hearing the neighing in the woods, the jockey kind of relaxes and tips his head back...some people think he was supposed to be peeing at that point. Never mind...you're talking about Emerson and CHUCK, not Ned. Different scene.

(Un)Relatedly, did Emerson say "pissing" when they were all talking in the pieshop?

[Judith Prietht]

This was the first episode I've seen, and I really liked it. It's been added to the DVR. Chi McBride is hilarious, especially considering the last show I really watched with him was Boston Public where he was so dour all the time. I know I've missed a bunch of backstory; can someone fill me in on what I need to know to be all up-to-speed?

[Contrapuntal]

This was the first episode I've seen, and I really liked it. It's been added to the DVR. Chi McBride is hilarious, especially considering the last show I really watched with him was Boston Public where he was so dour all the time. I know I've missed a bunch of backstory; can someone fill me in on what I need to know to be all up-to-speed?You can find out a lot here, (http://abc.go.com/primetime/pushingdaisies/index) including full episodes available for replay.

[Eureka]

My "so you can accept the fact that Ned can revive people, animals, and fruit from the dead according to certain specific rules but you can't accept that" moment for this episode was when Olive's past as a champion jockey was announced. Female jockeys are just not common enough or successful enouch for me to buy her involvment in the Jock-off. Also, why were there only 5 horses/jockeys in that race? (Not that adding more horses/jockeys makes things better . . . )

But I didn't have a problem with a xenotransplant attaching horselegs to a human body.

Other than that, I enjoyed the episode--especially the moment when Ned tries to suggest that working for Olive is a little too close for comfort. And the list of evil things which cause people to suddenly drop dead--"faking one's own death" and "talking too much".

[simster]

This was the first episode I've seen, and I really liked it. It's been added to the DVR. Chi McBride is hilarious, especially considering the last show I really watched with him was Boston Public where he was so dour all the time. I know I've missed a bunch of backstory; can someone fill me in on what I need to know to be all up-to-speed?


let me explain - no, there is to much - let me sum up.

Ned can bring the dead back to life with a touch - a second touch makes them dead again - permanently. If the person/thing that is brought back to life stays alive more than a minute (60 seconds) an 'equivalant' life is taken in exchange.

"Its a random proximity thing"
"Bitch, I was in proximity"

Chuck was Ned's childhood sweatheart until her dad died, which is by no coincidence related to the "random proximity" rule stated above (where Ned brought his mother back to life for more than a minute). 20 years later Chuck dies on her first 'real adventure' outside of her Aunt's house - Ned re-awakens Chuck - and decides to not retouch her. (Much to the demise of a certain ner-do-well funeral home director.)

Olive wants Ned - but Ned "digs Chuck in a way that he doesn't dig her'.

Emerson is a PI that uses Ned's ability to quickly (?) solve cases for the reward money. (Which is how Ned got in touch with Chuck again in the first place).

Digby - Ned's dog that was the first benefactor of Ned's 'special' gift - and a very gifted dog at that.

The Aunts - Raised Chuck after Chuck's dad died - was once a famous swim team until a freak accident with CatLitter - now live a solitary life with many 'odd' behaviours.

[jayjay]

This was the first episode I've seen, and I really liked it. It's been added to the DVR. Chi McBride is hilarious, especially considering the last show I really watched with him was Boston Public where he was so dour all the time. I know I've missed a bunch of backstory; can someone fill me in on what I need to know to be all up-to-speed?

Boy, you don't ask for much, do you? :D

Ned (aka the Piemaker) has a special talent. When he touches a dead thing, it comes back to life. If the formerly dead thing stays alive for longer than 1 minute, something else of equivalent value in relative proximity will die. Also, if he touches the formerly dead thing again, ever, it will revert to being dead, forever.

For instance, in Pie-lette (the pilot...get it?), we see Ned's mother have a stroke and fall over. Ned touches her, she comes back to life. A minute passes, and Chuck's father drops dead (and, just for the drama involved, Chuck still doesn't know the reason her father died). That night, when Ned's mother leans over to kiss him goodnight, the contact kills her again.

There is a relative equivalency of value involved. Frogs who get revived cause pigeons to die. A pigeon who gets revived causes a blackbird to die. A dog who gets revived causes a squirrel to die. People who get revived cause people to die.

Ned and Chuck were childhood friends. Ned had a crush on Chuck, but when her father died and his mother died, they were separated. Ned was sent to boarding school and basically abandoned by his father, and Chuck grew up a recluse with her aunts.

Ned met Emerson when Ned accidentally revived a criminal that Emerson had been chasing (Em was chasing him across rooftops and the criminal slipped and broke his neck against Ned's dumpster, which Ned was at that same moment visiting to drop some garbage bags. The dead guy bounced off the dumpster and into Ned, causing Ned to spark him to life. Ned had to chase the guy all the way out to the street to make him go limp again. Emerson saw this and proposed a partnership.)

Their second case together involved the murder of a girl on a cruise ship, who turned out to be Chuck! Ned revived her to find out who killed her but couldn't bring himself to devive her again. The funeral director (who was basically a graverobber) died instead. (Emerson, upon finding this out, and being told that it was a random proximity thing, says, "Bitch, I was in proximity!") Now Chuck and Ned are reunited, but they can never touch again.

That's the basic premise, along with Olive being madly in love with Ned, and Digby being an also-revived creature (which is why Ned won't pet him with his own hand).

[h.sapiens]

I really liked this episode too, especially that Olive doesn't seem to hate Chuck quite so much anymore.

The one thing that bugged me, and it just bugged me a little, was that after the fatal Jock-Off, only the other jockeys seemed to care about examining the damaged saddle. Where were the race officials? Also, how did All The Gold die? I know his legs were badly broken, but they didn't really explain why he fell after JJJ fell off him.

[monica]

So, if Ned is reviving fruit, wouldn't other perfectly good fruit, probably nearby and also waiting to be used in pies, have to die? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

[h.sapiens]

So, if Ned is reviving fruit, wouldn't other perfectly good fruit, probably nearby and also waiting to be used in pies, have to die? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?


In a recent episode, they showed that when Ned revives rotten fruit, some flowers or weeds die. He keeps them planted in nearby containers for that purpose.

[PoorYorick]

Also, why were there only 5 horses/jockeys in that race? (Not that adding more horses/jockeys makes things better . . . )
From what I understand, there were more jockeys, but only five that trampled over JJJ.

[simster]

In a recent episode, they showed that when Ned revives rotten fruit, some flowers or weeds die. He keeps them planted in nearby containers for that purpose.

Right - if memory serves they were daisies.

[ivylass]

Did anyone catch the previews?

Ned likes Neopolitan ice cream, and Emerson says that means he's comfortable with polygamy, and that there's no reason he can't "have" Chuck and "hold" Olive....


Squeeeeeeee! In two weeks it's sweeps, and the really cool episodes! (Not that this show hasn't been cool before, but imagine the heights they will scale now!)

[Contrapuntal]

In a recent episode, they showed that when Ned revives rotten fruit, some flowers or weeds die. He keeps them planted in nearby containers for that purpose.That does seem to suggest that he can control, to some extent, who dies. Why wouldn't the next closest strawberry get rotten?

[Eureka]

PoorYorick,
Makes sense. Sucks to be a jockey who was too close to the guy who fell to even try to avoid him, but makes sense otherwise. Thanks.

[ivylass]

Emerson is a PI that uses Ned's ability to quickly (?) solve cases for the reward money. (Which is how Ned got in touch with Chuck again in the first place).




Hee hee...Emerson = PI and Ned = Pie(maker).

I'm looking too hard.

[D_Odds]

That does seem to suggest that he can control, to some extent, who dies. Why wouldn't the next closest strawberry get rotten?
Reply With QuoteIt suggests nothing. It just a deus ex to make the story work. You'll kill it by over-analyzing it.

So many laughing moments in this show. I liked Olive trying to open the tomb. Nice little touch.

[jayjay]

It suggests nothing. It just a deus ex to make the story work. You'll kill it by over-analyzing it.

I think that's a very definite danger to watching this show. This is not a sitcom. It's not a drama. This is a fairy tale. It's not about the wacky aspects of real life, or about the tragic aspects of real life. It's not about real life at all. It's about a world where a man can bring the dead back to life, where everything looks like a Roald Dahl story, where you pretty much expect to turn the corner and run into a Tim Burton character. Worrying about piddles is only going to ruin your enjoyment of this show.

[simster]

That does seem to suggest that he can control, to some extent, who dies. Why wouldn't the next closest strawberry get rotten?

Strictly speaking, the only 'other' strawberrys around are already dead, or recently revived--- it does suggest that the 'Random Proximity' clause only applies to things that are alive (and have never been dead and then touched by Ned).

And - the Fruit that Ned revives never spoils - which is why his pies are so tasty. (one wonders what this would do in the digestive system, but...)

"Like a Pumpkin with PMS"

[Contrapuntal]

It suggests nothing. It just a deus ex to make the story work. You'll kill it by over-analyzing it.Fascinating. What other things in the world do I erroneously find suggestive?

When they make a point out of how he cannot control it, and then make a point out of how he can, it suggests lazy writing. At least I think it does. I'm all confused now.

[simster]

Fascinating. What other things in the world do I erroneously find suggestive?

When they make a point out of how he cannot control it, and then make a point out of how he can, it suggests lazy writing. At least I think it does. I'm all confused now.


I disagree that it is "Dues X" to make it work - so far it has been shown to be internally consistent with the rules as we know them - Ned knows that "something of like kind" in proximity will die - therefore he keeps 'daisies' (weeds by any other name) close by for his fruit refruitation.

I think he realizes (and or atleast so far has not learned how) to have any finer control - hence his being worried about the squirrel for pidg - he didn;t know there was another bird nearby - or the equivalance wasn't there (and the proximity got wider). (which does not explain the Birds for Frogs in a prior incidient).

[D_Odds]

and then make a point out of how he canWe'll have to agree to disagree, because at no point have I seen this happen. They have made a point that it is a proximity thing, and an equivalency thing, which is why other plants are kept nearby. YMMV.

[Contrapuntal]

I disagree that it is "Dues X" to make it work - so far it has been shown to be internally consistent with the rules as we know them - Ned knows that "something of like kind" in proximity will die - therefore he keeps 'daisies' (weeds by any other name) close by for his fruit refruitation.I said "to some extent." If he does it because it works, which is what the poster to which I respond said, then, to some extent, he can control what dies.

There is nothing wrong with expecting internal consistency, even if the premise is a fairy tale.


They have made a point that it is a proximity thing, and an equivalency thing, which is why other plants are kept nearby. YMMV.Then why don't living things which are closer, and more equivalent, die instead of ones which are farther, and less equivalent?

[D_Odds]

Then why don't living things which are closer, and more equivalent, die instead of ones which are farther, and less equivalent?If you are going to analyze it that much, then I'll go with simster's explanation and literally not give it another thought.

[Contrapuntal]

If you are going to analyze it that much, then I'll go with simster's explanation and literally not give it another thought.This "over analyzing" strawman is a bit tiresome. Was your response to me not an analysis? How is it that your explanation is proper analyzing, but when I point out its shortcomings, I'm over analyzing?

What is it called when someone posts just to share his thought that he is not thinking about it? Over postulating?

[StGermain]

Contrapuntal - What other living equivilant thing was around? The other berries were dead. Animals to plants doesn't seem to be equivilant. So the weeds are deliberately put there to be sacrifices so Ned can revive the dead fruit.

StG

[Priam]

I said "to some extent." If he does it because it works, which is what the poster to which I respond said, then, to some extent, he can control what dies.

And... ? Of course he can control what dies in a somewhat closed environment in the same way we control experiments: manipulate the variables. If you put him, a dead body and one other live person in a sealed room far from anyone else, we know who's gonna die.

Same thing with the strawberries: there's not much else in reasonable range equivalent to small plantlife when one lives downtown in a major urban area. All of his other fruits are probably equally dead, so no good there. I don't recall potted plants elsewhere, though if I missed them then I'm willing to wave a hand and call them fake. What else other than the daisies could be taken?

[kunilou]

This "over analyzing" strawman is a bit tiresome.

Psst. It's a freakin' TV SHOW. If you want to analyze something with unrealistic stories, plot inconsistencies, amazing coincidences and deus ex machinas all over the place, try Shakespeare.

[Sean Factotum]

The Aunt's moved in with Chuck after her dad died - there has yet to be a mention of Chuck's mother.
Yes, I know that Chuck moved in with her aunts, and that we know nothing yet about her mom. I just found it strange to find out only now that they lived across the street from Chuck's family. And Vivian implied with her comment to Ned about how everyone talks about how nice a man he grew up to be, and both aunt's knowledge of his dad, that they have always lived in that neighborhood. No major problem with this, just an observation.


Ahem....Chuck's Dad was not "brutally" murdered. Ned was just learning about his powers and was unaware of the one minute rule. At the least, Chuck's dad's death was an accident. I was only half kidding with my description, but I believe that's how Ned thinks of the man's death. If he was completely at ease with his power, he would have explained to Chuck what happened, and ask her forgiveness, and try to get on with things as they are. But he feels an inordinate amount of guilt over this death, and can't talk to anyone about it. After twenty years of living with this, I see signs that the guilt is steadily increasing, aggravated by Chuck's resurrection.

And in two weeks, it looks like Ned and Olive get nekkid. ("Don't tell Chuck," she says.) Or maybe it's just a dream of Olive's or Ned's.

[simster]

Yes, I know that Chuck moved in with her aunts, and that we know nothing yet about her mom. I just found it strange to find out only now that they lived across the street from Chuck's family. And Vivian implied with her comment to Ned about how everyone talks about how nice a man he grew up to be, and both aunt's knowledge of his dad, that they have always lived in that neighborhood. No major problem with this, just an observation.



CHuck did not move in with her Aunts - the Aunts moved in with her. I assume that enough time passed where they had the ability to observe Ned's dad.

It was, after all, a 'long time' before Ned recieved his first postcard from 'dad' - and that was a "we've moved' notice.

[Gangster Octopus]

Still liking the show, but the narrator is getting on my nerves, especially this episode. It is overdone in my opinion and not particularly good writing.

And I am in the camp that believes Ned should tell Chuck to take a hike and go with Olive.

[Mikemike2]

It seems like a miracle Ned is not a serial killer with how f'd up his life has been. Talk about guilt and abandonment issues. I can't help but be sympathetic for him.

Jim

Ned is a serial killer. How else do you describe someone who touches living people in order to end their lives?

Another quirk of the show is that when Ned touches dead people, they come back to life as mangled as they were when they died. When he touches fruit it goes from rotten to vibrantly ripe.

[ivylass]

Ned is a serial killer. How else do you describe someone who touches living people in order to end their lives?



How do you figure that? The people are dead, and they're going to stay dead (after a one minute interval.) He's using his powers to help solve crimes. To his credit, only two people have died due to his powers, Chuck's father (because he didn't know all the caveats with his powers) and the corrupt funeral director (because he couldn't bear to let Chuck go.)

Did he have a right to sacrifice someone for Chuck? No. But the person who died wasn't a saint, he was a bad person. No, he didn't have a right to be judge and jury in the death of the funeral director, but I'll give him a pass because a "bad" person died.

Don't be slamming on Ned. He's doing the best he can under the circumstances. (stern look in direction of Mikemike2)

[What Exit?]

Ned is a serial killer. How else do you describe someone who touches living people in order to end their lives?

Another quirk of the show is that when Ned touches dead people, they come back to life as mangled as they were when they died. When he touches fruit it goes from rotten to vibrantly ripe.
Sorry, that is your interpretation, not mine. To me he would be a serial killer if he was bringing back others on a regular basis and letting someone else die in their place. So far he has really only brought back one person, with the knowledge of what would happen. He chose to kill for the only girl he ever loved and even there it was more of, he could not kill her, even knowing that someone else would die.

He does cut the minute dangerously close, all too often.

Jim

[AuntiePam]

Something else confused me in this episode -- how did JJJ end up on the roof of the Pie Hole? How did he know to go there? How did Olive and Chuck know to find him there? Why did Olive and Chuck go to the roof via an outside ladder rather than use the stairs inside?

[Mikemike2]

[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus]Still liking the show, but the narrator is getting on my nerves, especially this episode. It is overdone in my opinion and not particularly good writing.

[QUOTE]

I really do like the show, but I was also taken out of the moment by the intrusiveness of the narrator. I am tired of being told "the facts are these" and how old someone is to the minute when they die.

As to serial killer status for Ned, I can see the other points but am not convinced. I saw an open heart surgery on TV the other day (real not drama) that went bad at the start so they killed the patient by replacing his blood with cold water and removing his heart. No brainwaves and no pulse. This was a dead person who was going to stay dead. Then the doctors intervened with a new heart and new blood about 1/2 an hour later and zapped the patient back to life. Could they later kill the patient with impunity?

[simster]

Something else confused me in this episode -- how did JJJ end up on the roof of the Pie Hole? How did he know to go there? How did Olive and Chuck know to find him there? Why did Olive and Chuck go to the roof via an outside ladder rather than use the stairs inside?

Olive's apartment (and therefore Ned's and Chuck's) are upstairs of the Pie Hole - One can assume that JJJ went thru the Olive's apartment - out the window and up the ladder - he left the horseshoe outside the window, so Olive went up to look - following the same path.

My question - how big a roof is this ? where were the bees?

On Edit - actually, we don't know how JJJ got there - he may well have taken the stairs - but he did have to leave the horse shoe by the window 'somehow' - and it's not a large leap to use the ladder for that.

[simster]

Still liking the show, but the narrator is getting on my nerves, especially this episode. It is overdone in my opinion and not particularly good writing.



I really do like the show, but I was also taken out of the moment by the intrusiveness of the narrator. I am tired of being told "the facts are these" and how old someone is to the minute when they die.

As to serial killer status for Ned, I can see the other points but am not convinced. I saw an open heart surgery on TV the other day (real not drama) that went bad at the start so they killed the patient by replacing his blood with cold water and removing his heart. No brainwaves and no pulse. This was a dead person who was going to stay dead. Then the doctors intervened with a new heart and new blood about 1/2 an hour later and zapped the patient back to life. Could they later kill the patient with impunity?

I really hate to get into this argument - To be a 'killer' one has to cause the INITIAL death - You certainly wouldn't call an EMT that 'revived a patient' a killer should the patient 're-die' moments later, would you?


So far, to our knowledge, Ned has only 'caused' 2 human death's (and he's apparently been pretty exclusive in his use of his powers otherwise - mostly for fruit) - the first being Chuck's dad - we'll excuse that one based on his new found power and his not understanding what was going on, and Chuck - well that one was a choice, and one he would make again. (But then 'He' did not directly cause the FD's death either - he knew the consequences of his actions (that someone would die) but he had no direct control over it other than that.

[D_Odds]

The question hinges on whether bringing someone back to life, for any reason, then qualifies Ned as a murderer (or voluntary manslaughterer). Once he re-animates someone, then someone is going to die. The obvious answer would be to never re-animate anyone (but then we would not have a show).

Prior to Emerson learning about Ned's curse / gift, Ned did not use his powers except on fruit. Ned, if he had any backbone, would have told Emerson to piss off (again, no show) and continued on his failing pie-making business. But he didn't, and he feels blackmailed by Emerson (but also likes having someone he can discuss his abilities with, I think).

[simster]

The question hinges on whether bringing someone back to life, for any reason, then qualifies Ned as a murderer (or voluntary manslaughterer). Once he re-animates someone, then someone is going to die. The obvious answer would be to never re-animate anyone (but then we would not have a show).

Prior to Emerson learning about Ned's curse / gift, Ned did not use his powers except on fruit. Ned, if he had any backbone, would have told Emerson to piss off (again, no show) and continued on his failing pie-making business. But he didn't, and he feels blackmailed by Emerson (but also likes having someone he can discuss his abilities with, I think).

Well - 95% of the folks that he re-animates are truly 'dead' - meaning they are at the morgue or would otherwise already be dead in a way that satisfies the law - his 're-killing' of them does not change that fact, since the 'law' never recognizes that they were ever 'alive' again.

Now, where they 'trample into a crime scene' and 'revive' should certianly start raising suspicions, since those folks (Pinky, The travel agent) were not yet declared 'dead' by any sense of the legal term.

IMHO - Ned's power - except when he doesn't re-touch within the guideline - does not change the status of the recently (or not so recently) deceased - ergo you cannot kill the dead.

[Mikemike2]

Once he re-animates someone, then someone is going to die. The obvious answer would be to never re-animate anyone (but then we would not have a show).



Exactly and well said. Saving a life or creating a life does not give Ned the right to take a life. I am not referring to the situation with Chuck or Chuck's dad. I am talking about going to the morgue and bringing someone back to life, and then believing he also has the right to kill that person.

I have heard parents yell at their kids - "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of this world." I do not think that would hold up in court. :)

[kingpengvin]

If he allows them to live he will take a life in a deliberate act making him a killer. This is a temporary revivication, he's not taking their life. Sheesh.

[Gangster Octopus]

I think you need to step back, does Ned really have the right to bring someone to life in the first place?

[D_Odds]

I have heard parents yell at their kids - "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of this world." I do not think that would hold up in court. :)That is an old Bill Cosby routine, and I use it quite often. Of course, it works best with the follow-up "Make another one looks just like you."

[What Exit?]

Exactly and well said. Saving a life or creating a life does not give Ned the right to take a life. I am not referring to the situation with Chuck or Chuck's dad. I am talking about going to the morgue and bringing someone back to life, and then believing he also has the right to kill that person.

I have heard parents yell at their kids - "I brought you into this world and I can take you out of this world." I do not think that would hold up in court. :)
Again, I disagree, you are applying morals and laws to a situation that they were not envisioned for. Overall he is doing good (for profit) by solving murders. I just don't see it as murder, returning them to their state of death.

Jim

[ivylass]

I think you need to step back, does Ned really have the right to bring someone to life in the first place?

If it solves a murder and (as in the case of the Pie-lette) saves an innocent person from going to jail for a crime they did not commit, yes.

Yeesh, you guys, do you realize how many TV detectives would love to have his ability? Imagine Columbo, Jessica Fletcher, heck, even Lennie Brisco!

[jayjay]

If it solves a murder and (as in the case of the Pie-lette) saves an innocent person from going to jail for a crime they did not commit, yes.

Yeesh, you guys, do you realize how many TV detectives would love to have his ability? Imagine Columbo, Jessica Fletcher, heck, even Lennie Brisco!

Yeah, but Columbo would need to be able to bring them back more than once... "Oh, just one more question, sir..."

And believe me, most of the corpses will not want to be able to hear Brisco's wisecracks about them.

[chambraigne]

My question - how big a roof is this ? where were the bees?

I think that the bee hives were visible in the background, so they were on the same part of the roof that we saw last episode.

Did anyone else notice that when Chuck and Ned were sitting next to each other in the booth, they had a child's booster seat separating them? Not exactly foolproof, but better than nothing I guess.

One other thing I just remembered that bothered me: if Jacobs did not, in fact, die after the accident in the race, then wouldn't that be something that the other jockeys would have, I don't know, read about in the paper or something?

[jackdavinci]

I have a question that I'm not sure has been answered by the show yet - what is the nature of people after they have been permanently revived by Ned? During temporary reviving they seem to retain any grotesque injuries they sustained during their death (although they do lose the "blue color"). If a minute passes, do their injuries heal, or would they walk around as severly disfigured zombies? It's hard to tell with Chuck because she died of drowning and not a disfiguring injury. What's the SD?

[Eureka]

I think the closest the show has come to answering that question is Pidge. Pidge is a pigeon who lost a wing shortly before death. Ned touched Pidge and Pidge revived. Still minus a wing. Olive then took Pidge to visit Chuck's aunts, and they attached a new wing. Pidge is now able to fly again.

The only people Ned has permanently revived are his mother--who died of a burst blood vessel, and lived less than a day after her original death--and Chuck.

[Mikemike2]

I don't think we know the answer yet. As I said people get revived mangled, but fruit gets healed when Ned touches it. Also revived things may be immortal. Ned's dog is doing very well as it is probably in its mid twenties.

[What Exit?]

It's hard to tell with Chuck because she died of drowning and not a disfiguring injury. What's the SD?
IRC: not drowned but suffocated with a plastic bag with a happy face on it.

They have indicated that Digby is 23. We ran the math in a prior thread based on him being 3 in the Pie-lette when Ned was 10 and he is now 30.

Jim

[ivylass]

I don't think we know the answer yet. As I said people get revived mangled, but fruit gets healed when Ned touches it.

But, as we saw last night, he cannot eat a pie that has "revived" fruit in it, because the second it touches his tongue, it "dies" again.

You'd think he'd mark the pies somehow so he could keep track of which ones had revived fruit and which ones didn't. I'm sure he'd like a nice slice of pear with Gruyere crust on occassion.

[simster]

But, as we saw last night, he cannot eat a pie that has "revived" fruit in it, because the second it touches his tongue, it "dies" again.

You'd think he'd mark the pies somehow so he could keep track of which ones had revived fruit and which ones didn't. I'm sure he'd like a nice slice of pear with Gruyere crust on occassion.

Somehow I think all of his pies have "revived" fruit in them - cuts down on operating costs.

Must suck trying to eat raisens.....

[Achren]

I don't think we know the answer yet. As I said people get revived mangled, but fruit gets healed when Ned touches it. Also revived things may be immortal. Ned's dog is doing very well as it is probably in its mid twenties.
The fruit isn't mangled, it's rotten. Two different things. The people he's brought back after they've been dead a long time look just fine as long as they weren't marked to begin with. Same concept.

[LurkMeister]

One other thing I just remembered that bothered me: if Jacobs did not, in fact, die after the accident in the race, then wouldn't that be something that the other jockeys would have, I don't know, read about in the paper or something?
This was one of the things that bothered me most about this episode too. Jacobs is revived after the accident, but his legs are so badly damaged that he'll never be able to walk, so the doctors come up with the (to my mind, ridiculous) idea of replacing them with a horse's legs, and nobody but his mother knows any of that happened? I'm willing to accept a lot of strange things that are already part of the basis for this show, but they're starting to push my limits to the breaking point.

[dropzone]

I believe this show will prove to be what the world has needed for a couple years: something with which we can diagnose Aspberger's Syndrome. Sure, lots of folks have self-diagnosed, but need for some here for absolute literalism and consistency in a TV show that is so obviously not to be taken literally and by its nature lacks an internal consistency? Perfect! :rolleyes:

[alphaboi867]

That does seem to suggest that he can control, to some extent, who dies. Why wouldn't the next closest strawberry get rotten?

He was able to revive the mortician who died as him keeping Chuck alive longer than a minute so he'd be able to do the same thing with fruit.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Ned revived her to find out who killed her but couldn't bring himself to devive her again.Is this a real word? If not, it ought to be. Regardless, I salute you for using it.

I adored this ep. Mucho Kristin in it, although again an infuriating lack of her singing. Her jumping on the bed had me LOLing.

What is the correct term for this genre? It's a little bit cartoony, a little fantasy, a little Seuss-y. Anybody?

[rockle]

In a recent episode, they showed that when Ned revives rotten fruit, some flowers or weeds die. He keeps them planted in nearby containers for that purpose.That does seem to suggest that he can control, to some extent, who dies. Why wouldn't the next closest strawberry get rotten?I think it's an approximate proximity thing, but not necessarily an immediate proximity thing, if that makes any sense: i.e., it's not the closest similar thing that dies, but something sort of in the area (like last week, with the squirrel vs. some random pigeon, and in a previous episode, with the bugs -- it wasn't the bugs in the next tank over that died instead, but some bugs a couple of tanks away). I'm thinking that sooner or later they will explain that this is why, in the first episode, the undertaker died, and not Emerson. (Well, that, and the fact that Chi McBride's name is in the credits.) So, yeah, Ned might have some control, but only insofar as he can "protect" people who are very nearby, but he wouldn't be able to "assign" the "life exchange" to anyone in particular.

What is the correct term for this genre? It's a little bit cartoony, a little fantasy, a little Seuss-y. Anybody?Sonnenfeldesque, or Sonnenfeldian, or something like that. It is very much like other stuff he's done (I can think instantly of "Toys" and "Men in Black"). Love that!

[mnemosyne]

I so wanted to give Ned a big giant hug in this episode! I was nearly in tears during the scene where it was explained that every Halloween he went back to his old, dead, house and lay down on the carpet where his bed used to be. Can you imagine doing that for 20 years? So sad! It really is amazing he isn't a lot more screwed up than he is!

A couple of times people have made comments about the "immortal" food (strawberries) and what it must do in customer's stomachs. I'm pretty sure they would be digested and killed in the same way as fresh ones would be. In the second episode, there wasn't much doubt that Chuck could be killed in the car; once alive again, you are alive, and therefore can be killed. I think you just don't age the same way; you might not die on your own, but an accident, a predator, or a crazy car manufacturing killer can kill you.

[What Exit?]

Is this a real word? If not, it ought to be. Regardless, I salute you for using it.

I adored this ep. Mucho Kristin in it, although again an infuriating lack of her singing. Her jumping on the bed had me LOLing.

What is the correct term for this genre? It's a little bit cartoony, a little fantasy, a little Seuss-y. Anybody?
Can we just call it Whimsical?

[jayjay]

Is this a real word? If not, it ought to be. Regardless, I salute you for using it.

So far as I know, it's entirely my own. Thank you! I quite liked it myself.

[What Exit?]

I just watched it again with my wife. My favorite line was, "I love you Shovel".

[rockle]

I just watched it again with my wife. My favorite line was, "I love you Shovel".Every week, I am more and more glad that "Boston Public" got cancelled, making Chi McBride available. LOVE! HIM!

[VunderBob]

What is the correct term for this genre? It's a little bit cartoony, a little fantasy, a little Seuss-y. Anybody?
I looked it up on the DirecTV on-line listing, and they have it down as a drama. I don't know how to classify the show myself, but it certainly isn't that...

ETA: Chi McBride and Swoozie Kurtz need to do a snark-off episode.

[Sean Factotum]

I don't think we know the answer yet. As I said people get revived mangled, but fruit gets healed when Ned touches it. Also revived things may be immortal. Ned's dog is doing very well as it is probably in its mid twenties.
Especially since the dog got flattened by a semi.

[What Exit?]

Especially since the dog got flattened by a semi.
But Digby did not get flattened, he got bounced. I have seen too many deers that look fine, lying dead on the side of the highway, due to internal and non-visible injuries. Apparently Ned's power fixes internal damage, especially if recent, but not external damage. We are still learning about his power. He probably has much to learn still.

This is because this show is a much more a fairy tale than a realistic drama.

I liked the exchanges of Ned not believing in ghosts and insisting that just because what he does is magical doesn't mean that other magic exists.

Jim

[rockle]

ETA: Chi McBride and Swoozie Kurtz need to do a snark-off episode.Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick ... I would pay cash money for that.

[ivylass]

Maybe for sweeps!

Hold hands, peoople, and wish really hard.....

It's a fairy tale. Why not?

[AskNott]

Hee hee...Emerson = PI and Ned = Pie(maker).

I'm looking too hard.
Maybe not. This show is dense with sight gags, puns, and references to other works. It's hard to tell where intentional ends and accidental begins. :p

[susan_foster]

Just coming in to drop something I read on another board. The only people referenced with specific time measures (i.e. - blahblah was 47 years, 3 days, 2 hours...) are the people who died - and Ned. Makes you wonder - did he die before?

Susan