D&D Movie Trailer

[Johnny Angel]

The D&D movie trailer (www.seednd.com) is problematic because it has done an amazing job of telling you what's wrong with the movie in just a few short cuts. The one piece of bad dialogue by Thora Birch suggests a lot about how little thought went into the political intrigue of the film. The few interactions between Marlon Wayans and Justin Whalin immediately establish that the character development will have the depth of a `buddy picture'. The brief interlude about the dungeon strongly suggests the kind of contrivance we can expect from the plot. The fact that a good actor like Jeremy Irons overacts through most of the trailer suggests that we are dealing with a shitty director. And I find it more than a little significant that we see in the romantic teaser between Wayans and Wilson that the human/elf race line doesn't exist, but the black/white one does.

However, I have not given up hope. It may very well be that the editors of the trailer were simply morons, choosing the worst stuff as representative.

I'm very impressed with the look of the movie, and I don't expect to be a bit disapointed about the level of eye candy. If they manage to bring massive aerial dragon battles alive, then they've achieved something that D&D fans have wanted for a long time. That in itself is an achievement that will put the film on the map, though it looks like they aren't trying to achieve much more than that.

Obviously, the film is going to be thick with cliches. This I expected. But what bothers me is that they appear to be Hollywood cliches, and not D&D cliches.

And as for Jeremy Irons' over-the-top performance, I have to say that it's the best overacting I've ever seen. I mean, damn. Wow. He delivers the most chilling, nuanced hamjob since Lawrence Olivier's Richard III. I can't wait to see the rest of it. I'm going to be very sorry to see him lose in the end.

[seriousart]

It's been a while since I played D&D (about 15 years), so I know I'm a little rusty. What would you consider a "D&D cliche"?

[Lux Fiat]

What is wrong with me that I can't make the trailer work?

[Johnny Angel]

Glad you asked:

* Monsters of animal intelligence or lower who happen to have minor treasure hordes.
* Killing an enemy, and finding an item in a locked chest in his lair that he could have used against you.
* Money buried places you would never think to look unless you knew the module was written by Gary Gygax.
* Monsters having items in their treasure horde that were designed specifically to defeat that kind of monster.
* The back-stabbing hobbit thief.
* The warrior-babe with an 18 CON, 18/00 strength, who weighs 90 pounds.
* Humans are diverse -- every other race has one language, one god and one culture.
* Everyone sleeps in full armor, just in case of a night encounter.
* Stirges wipe out a low-level party.
* Character neglects to look up as he passes a doorway and gets hit with green slime.
* The 1/2 orc assassin.
* The mage whips out his Wand of Wonder, and zaniness ensues.
* The very specific folume requirements for the Fireball spell, and the problems it can cause your tender hit points.
* The problem with bouncing lightning bolts.
* Spells by the same wizard follow the same theme (ala Bigby's)
* Spell components and the bad puns they're often based on.

[ricksummon]

Before you start condemning the entire D&D movie based on the trailer, I suggest you go to http://www.dndmovie.com. The webmaster of that site has personally interviewed almost everyone in the cast and crew. He's got tons of pictures. He's talked to Dave Arneson, one of the creators of D&D, and found out he approves of the film. He's even gotten a review of the full movie written by a guy who works for a competitor to the company that's releasing the film, and even that guy likes it! Not to mention that the so-called "lame dialogue" spoken by Thora Birch in the trailer isn't even the actual dialogue she says in that scene in the movie!

Oh, and by the way, the D&D cliche of sleeping in full armor no longer works in 3rd Edition. Just FYI.

[Jophiel]

- Party meets in a tavern and has no motivation for going anywhere except that then the players will be bored as soon as the pizza is gone.
- The Caves of Ultimate Evil are built within 200 yards of a thriving town so the DM doesn't have to hassle with a wilderness adventure.
- Everyone has a 10' pole, 50' of rope, iron spikes, a bullseye lantern, and boots designated by height and sole thickness.
- Goblins, orcs, kobolds, and other humanoids have no better existance than to squat in caves and attack people. They have no skills and no economy. They never trade in the town 200 yards away. However, they have a pressing need for lots of treasure in the form of coins.
- Dragons have no better existance than to sit on level ten of a dungeon and wait for people to come to them. Then they use their combined wisdom of hundreds of years of life to do a breathe/claw/claw bite attack.

[Narile]

Do you know anyone that doesn't play with house rules? Current group pretty much avoids every one of the cliche's he mentions.

Sleeping in Armour? You can sleep in leather one night. One of the more desired enchantments on armour is that it is 'sleepable' and can be slept in. (One guy in our group had his 'pajamas', enchanted studded leather which was sleepable, his normal armour was plate.) Another is that it is sizing....always annoying to find the 5' armour and you are 6' tall.

The reason why the monster has the special weapon in a locked chest, is because it can't destroy it, and doesn't trust anyone else to have it. :)

[Johnny Angel]

ricksummon wrote:

Before you start condemning the entire D&D movie based on the trailer, I suggest you go to http://www.dndmovie.com.

Actually, I've been visiting the site religiously over the past couple of months (though I don't remember reading that Birch's speech from the trailer was different in the actual movie; I skipped the whole discussion of the trailer and went straight to the thing itself), and have had a lot of positive impressions. But it's really easy to make the movie look one way or another with the careful selection of data. The unofficial site makes it look really good. The trailer sets off a lot of alarms.

Oh, and by the way, the D&D cliche of sleeping in full armor no longer works in 3rd Edition. Just FYI.

Actually, my players had already stopped expecting to get away with it in 2nd edition. But, I can recall a time... =)

More cliches, and other amusing inconsistencies, some of which have been fixed in 3rd edition:

* There are only two kinds of magical broaches in the game -- one good, one bad. If you find one, test it out on an NPC.
* Ogres run right past the 1st level characters to get to the 5th level party
* Mage casts `Find Familliar', rolls `Toad' (that would be funny as hell to see in the movie) or `quasit' (maybe not so funny)
* Sometimes a whole cluster of healing potions do minimum healing
* All kinds of people can cast `detect evil', yet there's still lots of evil people running around undetected
* Mages and priests have been casting permanent Continual Light spells for centuries, yet people still need candles.
* Blindness, deafness, and disease can be cured magically. But there are still blind people, deaf people, and people who die of disease.
* Mages are supposed to be relatively rare, but somebody has been blowing a lot of points of CON to make +1 swords, and other low-power magic items
* The money you pay for Holy Water would probably do just as much damage to the undead, if you threw the money instead.
* Gold coins from all kingdoms and all eras are worth exactly the same
* Elves are much more adept at magic than humans, supposedly, but none of them ever make it past 9th level.

Any of these things would have made great inside jokes in the movie.

[Narile]

Um, I hate to point it out, but the Con loss associated with the permanancy spell has only a 5% chance of occuring when used in conjunction with the enchant weapon spell. I believe that the same holds true with the crafting of any magical item, but am not certain as I am at work, and the books are out in the car.

[tracer]

More D&D cliches, from the halcyon days of AD&D First Edition: Coins weigh a whopping one-tenth of a pound each.
It takes seven of these tenth-of-a-pound pound gold coins to buy one lousy hooded lantern, and one additional tenth-of-a-pound gold coin for enough oil to run the lantern for one night.
However, said lantern oil miraculously transforms into Greek Fire or napalm or a lit Molotov cocktail or something, in mid-air, when hurled at an enemy.
You have to rob widows, orphans, and banks to get enough one-tenth-ounce gold coins to pay for the training you'll need to gain one lousy experience level.
And you'll need to kill about 200 kobolds to get enough experience to gain said level, before you'll even be allowed to pay for the training. (Make sure you kill the kobolds' children while you're at it; they aren't worth any experience points alive. :rolleyes: )
Somebody went to great lengths to dig an underground labyrinth, finish the rooms therein, and equip half of said rooms with booby traps. The sole purpose of this amazing feat of construction is to house wandering monsters and gobs of minimally-protected valuables.
It takes a full minute to swing your sword at an opponent.
Every alignment has its own language. Intelligent magic swords use this "alignment language" as their primary means of communication.

[bouv]

You forgot some more D&D cliches (shame on you for hijacking you own thread):

- Derenged wizards have nothing better to do than ride dragons and terrorize small villages
- Anyone couls find out if an article of clothing or jewelry was magical by putting it in and seeing if it changed size to fit them
- No matter what items were found, they could always be sold at the store for half their price as listed in the Player's Handbook
And my personal favourite:
- Any time something happened and the the players questioned why, the DM had only to say 'because I said so!'

p.s. Couldn't they come up with a better title than 'Dungeons and Dragons the Movie'? I mean ,c'mon, don't bother to think or anything.

[tracer]

I wanna see somebody gain an experience level on screen. It should be somewhat reminiscent of the "quickening" effect from Highlander.

I also wanna see an apprentice fighter's muscles suddely bulge out when he makes it to first level and suddenly gets to roll for Exceptional Strength.

[Johnny Angel]

Honestly, I think going up levels must work just like in Highlander. Maybe a bit less graphic. But the ontology of it suggests something very similar.

We used to like to play dungeons randomly generated as we went through them, with the characters instantly going up levels the moment they got the XP. We pictured the characters falling to the floor writhing in agony as they made the subtle but excruciating transition up the Great Chain of Being.

[ricksummon]

The way I figure it, if a character gets enough XP to gain a level, the process actually happens the next time the character goes to sleep. He or she has a very intense dream which recaps all the adventures they've gone through from their former level to their new level. When the character wakes up, he or she instinctively feels stronger.

[tracer]

Officially, in 1st Edition AD&D, gaining a level required weeks of training costing thousands of gold pieces.

In 3rd Edition D&D, however, levels are gained instantaneously, just like in the Rogue or Hack or Nethack computer games. It is possible to be down to 1 hit point while fighting 2 orcs, successfully kill one orc, and have the experience points from the orc you killed give you a new level, complete with an extra hit-die worth of hit points, allowing you to survive the remaining orc's next attack.

[tracer]

The D&D movie was mentioned in the thread What movie do you actively loath(e)? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=41434&pagenumber=4)

In that thread, I speculated on what some of the dialog might be:

"Gadzooks! I rolled a 3 and missed him! Now I'll have to wait another minute before I can swing my sword at him again."

"I'm sorry, but I can't understand your language. I only speak Common, Druidic, and Lawful-Neutral."

"Only half a pound of gold coins for a lantern? What a bargain!"

"Good thing this 90 pound suit of armor makes me such a difficult target to hit."

"We must kill all the kobold children! They aren't worth any experience points alive."

;) Any others?

[Johnny Angel]

"You memorized `affect normal fires'? What are you, a moron?"

"Look, two guys in leather armor."
"Thieves! Get 'em!"

"Hey, baby. What's your alignment?"

"Yeah, give me 100' of silk rope, 10 pitons, a quiver, three flasks of oil, a 10' pole, a pint of greek fire, ten iron rations, a wine skin -- better make it two -- a tinderbox, and some thieves' tools."
"Got an I.D. for the greek fire?"
"Ah, well, I must have left it in my other breeches."

[Kamino Neko]

Originally posted by Johnny Angel
"Hey, baby. What's your alignment?"

Bwahaha....dunno why, but that's one of the funniest things I've read in a while...

[Max Torque]

Finally got to view the trailer (I am LOVING this new cable modem), and the D&D movie looks at least as good as X-Men. Sure, Irons is overacting, but I'll wager the role calls for it. And it's really just "filler" until the Lord of the Rings movies come out, anyway. hehe...

[Narile]

I do take a certain level of exception with the claim of one swing a minute. The arguement has always been that the player is swinging far more than that, but that during a one minute segment a lower ability character will notice a single opening to strike at, higher level characters will naturally notice far more slip ups in their oponents defenses (This is explicetly mentioned in 2nd ed, and I believe also in 1st.) Obviously this has its own problems, since A) it assumes that the higher level guy hasn't learned to better defend himself? and B) No counting for fatigue, so characters can swing all day and party all night. :/

[tracer]

Narile:

If that rationale was so convincing, then why does the new 3rd Edition D&D define a melee round as lasting 6 seconds instead of a full minute?


Oh, and some more possible lines of dialog:

"I have to be lawful good. Otherwise I would lose all these swell paladin powers, and then I wouldn't be able to kill as many people and take their treasures."

"He died again? That's the third time this week! Forget it, I'm not ponying up any gold pieces to pay for that Raise Dead spell this time. He can pay his own tab."

"Now that I've killed 40 more orcs, I'm much better at picking locks."

[Scupper]

Originally posted by tracer
Narile:

"Now that I've killed 40 more orcs, I'm much better at picking locks."

How about:

"Now that I've killed 40 more orcs, I am somehow more able to handle being shot in the gut with a crossbow?"

[Narile]

Tracer, I am merely pointing out that the rules didn't claim that a person was swinging once a minute.

That said, I also pointed out several falacies(sp) in the one good blow a minute system.

As for fun cliche's....

"It looks dangerous, probably booby trapped."
"Its Ok, we will just send in hired Polish Minedetectors."


(I attack the Gazebo!)
(Look! Its Vecna's head!)

[tracer]

"Wow, that last hobgoblin we killed was carrying a fortune! I feel so much more experienced now that I've taken the coins and gems out of his pocket."

(2nd Edition AD&D still maintained the "one experience point per gold piece acquired" rule, as an optional rule in a little blue box on the lower-right of p. 47 in the DMG. In 3rd Edition D&D, the rule is conspicuously absent.)

[Lumpy]

For a fantasy novel that pokes fun at the D&D cliches, try Another Day, Another Dungeon.

[Narile]

OrkBusters in Paranoia....I loved finding the room with the monsters in it playing poker. Every so often a number would come up on a board and a monster would look up, grab a weapon and leave the room...it was the wandering monster waiting room.

[Mahaloth]

Check out this review for Dungeons and Dragons. I'd like to point out that this person does not work for the production company and isn't a relative of the director. I got this from http://www.darkhorizons.com. By the way, the second Lord of the Rings trailer should be on Final Fantasy(in case you are wondering).



D&D is an absolutely amazing debut by Canadian newcomer COURTNEY SOLOMON (it's a guy). I would dare to state that a new successful franchise has been born. I am already sure there will be a D&D2 en 3, because I think D&D is much BETTER than STAR WARS Episode One!!! I had expected a kind of MORTAL KOMBAT, but I think it goes WAY beyond that.

The movie is a high speed adventure in which one great scene follows another, mixing the best of STAR WARS (fx, characters), INDIANA JONES (adventure, (Note: spoiler; remember the opening of RAIDERS!), DARK CRYSTAL/LABYRINTH (creatures, costumes and art direction), DARK CITY (the gloomy darkness and cinematography) X-MEN (super power fx), THE MUMMY (humor), etc. It is an excellent warm-up for EVERYBODY who's waiting for LORD OF THE RINGS!

Because it is based on the role playing game I know every D&D fan has his own version of the story in his head - a reason why I won't get into the story in this review - but the movie keeps you on the edge of your seat the whole time, because there is just no time to pause and sit back. I expect the audience to be much broader than just the gamers, because, like I saw it, the movie can be seen completely separate from the game (unlike MORTAL KOMBAT for example; without knowing the game, it's crap).

The casting is excellent. D&D has a fresh young cast and avoided the type-casting of faces familiar to the genre. Although I did not like SCARY MOVIE or any of his earlier roles, Marlon Wayans is absolutely great. He definitely adds a lot of humor, something which SW1 lacked. (By the way, I loved Marlon's performance in REQUIEM FOR DREAM too! What a powerful movie).

The main character, played by Justin Whalin, definitely steals the show as our new hero. He should also be a big interest for the female audience. Should they ever be looking for a young Han Solo in SW3, try this guy!

The male audience can enjoy the attractive Zoe McLellan who is the female part of the heroic trio we follow throughout the story. The chemistry between the three is great.

The absolute bad ass of the movie is the very believable Bruce Payne who stays in his villainous character chillingly well. I would want to mention a couple of others, but unfortunately there were no credits yet and IMDB is not much of help either (I am not even sure if Bruce Payne is the right name with the right character). Fact is, that because you can identify with the characters so well, you are sucked in right away. Only minor flaw is the performance of the in AMERICAN BEAUTY so promising and powerful Thora Birch. Her acting (and character) is very reminiscent of Queen Amidala /Natalie Portman. D&D proves how important the human characters still are; even in a genre that rests heavily on the SFX (Qui-Gon, Jar Jar anybody?).

The SFX are absolutely amazing: the dragons (especially the ending) and the 3D landscapes and buildings are breathtaking. Think the fabulous imagery of Naboo and know you'll get vistas like that at least six times as many in D&D and I would dare say: far more impressive! Art direction, set pieces and costumes are equally outstanding.

What is absolutely amazing is that this movie supposedly has been made for only $35 million! Even more amazing is the fact that COURTNEY SOLOMON never directed a movie before ("Not even a student movie" he told me, when I got a chance to talk to him briefly after the screening outside of the theater.) He has been working on this project practically all his life so it is his dream come true.

I would not be surprised that this modest and shy young director will soon get a call from a Mr. Spielberg or Lucas. Should the last-mentioned be looking for a director for SW3 I tell you his search is over! I applaud the bravery of producer Joel Silver to put his confidence in Solomon and giving him this chance. It's gonna pay off! I am confident that in the US the film is in excellent hands with NEW LINE who are experts in marketing the genre.

They will get a head start on THE LORD OF THE RINGS with similar subject matter, reaching the same audience, so expect the LORD OF THE RINGS trailer before this one as of December 8th! In the rest of the world it's up to the independents!

With the limited budget and the fairly inexperienced cast (except for the great-and-mean-as usual Jeremy Irons) Solomon has made a movie that definitely delivers all the thrills you want. Can't wait to see it again.

[Johnny Angel]

Narile wrote:

I do take a certain level of exception with the claim of one swing a minute. The arguement has always been that the player is swinging far more than that, but that during a one minute segment a lower ability character will notice a single opening to strike at, higher level characters will naturally notice far more slip ups in their oponents defenses (This is explicetly mentioned in 2nd ed, and I believe also in 1st.) Obviously this has its own problems, since A) it assumes that the higher level guy hasn't learned to better defend himself? and B) No counting for fatigue, so characters can swing all day and party all night. :/

I think we're all aware of the justification given in the rules. The reason we continue to make fun of it is because it's bullshit. They wanted the round to be a minute long, so they made it a minute long, which was bullshit. They tried to justify it by saying that you're actually making a lot of attempts to hit the enemy, but you only roll for the one that has the best chance to hit, which is bullshit. We know it's bullshit because if Honknar is standing within striking distance of six guys in a room who are all held, while the rest of the party is dealing with some other threat in the hallway and we ask TSR, "Can Honknar stab all six of them with his sword of quickness in a minute round?" the answer is going to be "No." Why? The bullshit story they give you about dodging and weaving and fumbling in the chaos doesn't apply, but you can still only swing once in that minute, because they said so. We know it's bullshit, they know it's bullshit, so we continue to make fun of the one-swing per minute rule.

Mahaloth:

Criminy. Get that guy a Kleenex.



Those of you interested in meta-game humor might also be interested in the meta-genre humor of Terry Pratchett. If you're a D&D fan but somehow haven't ever heard of Terry Pratchett and his Discworld series, well, you've heard of him now -- go to the bookstore right this minute. This quote, which I'm actually taking from the GURPS Discword book, ought to give you some idea of the kind of humor we're talking about:

"Discworld non-humans can usually comprehend basic trade, but they do not necessarily think naturally in terms of standardised units of exchange. Trolls, for example, base their intraspecies trade on lumps of rock. Dwarfs have a keen and precise idea of the values of precious metals, but only shape it into standardised lumps because humans expect it; they would really rather measure nugget weights to the microgram, and argue for hours over metal purity."

You may also enjoy Diana Wynne Jones' The Tough Guide to Fantasyland, which makes fun of many of the conventions of fantasy fiction with the conceit that it's a tourist's guidebook:

"Languages are seldom as numerous or as difficult to learn as those of our own world. Most Tours arrange for all inhabitants to speak the same Language or else for most people to know the Common Tongue, even if they speak some other tongue to their families. The exception to this is the Other Continent, where Tourists will have to master a little of the Language. On some Tours, the Management will arrange for a convenient translaton Spell to be cast just as the Tourist is entering the world. But none of this applies to Magic. The Language of Spells is usually highly obscure. Sometimes it is the same as the Old Tongue, sometimes not. The Old Tongue is what the really important Scrolls will be written in (possibly in Hieroglyphs or Runes), and you will need a translator for that. There is only one of it. Evidently the former inhabitants spoke only the one Language. This seems to make it very potent. Just occasionally, when a Tourist is truly beleaguered by Magic, either trying to get through a magic door that will not open or about to lose to someone Evil, the Old Tongue has a way of suddenly making itself known. Then the Tourist will find her/himself crying out strange words. But do not expect this to happen too much.

See also Capital Letters and Speech"

[Narile]

Johnny, Read The Truth yet? Was a little disappointed, I had hoped that given mostly new characters we'd get another work on the level of Small Gods Instead I feel it is about on par with Wyrde Sisters.

[tracer]

Originally posted by Lumpy
For a fantasy novel that pokes fun at the D&D cliches, try Another Day, Another Dungeon.


For that matter, try The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters (http://www.netcom.com/~rogermw/ADnD). Not that I'm bragging or anything.

[Kyberneticist]

Question. I have no speakers at work, and at home I only have linux. Since Apple has yet to release a version of their QuickTime plaer for linux, or allow use of the Sorenson codec, is there a place online where I can find a copy of the trailer converted to another format?

[tracer]

Yet another reason why I won't let those Linux weenies talk me into installing it....

[Johnny Angel]

We used to run what we called `Goober Dungeons', which consisted of three rooms. In the first two were random monsters and treasure. In the third there was a potion of gain level.

Each character (this was Basic) rolled his stats right down the line, and picked a class. Then he rolled for a random magic item which we called the `grandma's closet' item. A character was assumed to be capable of using any item he found in his grandma's closet.

As soon as the monsters from the second room died, the characters would immediately turn on eachother, and the one who survived would get to step through the door and quaff the free level.

When all of us had won at least one of these at first level, we'd have a second level Goober Dungeon with our surviving characters.

It was a lot of fun, and if I were writing the D&D movie, there would be Goober Dungeon tournaments.

[Kyberneticist]

Originally posted by tracer
Yet another reason why I won't let those Linux weenies talk me into installing it....
Because of all the software companies that are selling non-linux products won't offer for linux? That could go on for some time...
Better to ask why I'm all linux at home, even though it means I can only listen to, not watch, quicktime trailers.
Surely it couldn't have anything to do with the thousands of free applications for linux?
Nawww.

[Danielinthewolvesden]

Originally posted by Johnny Angel

More cliches, and other amusing inconsistencies, some of which have been fixed in 3rd edition:

* All kinds of people can cast `detect evil', yet there's still lots of evil people running around undetected

* Blindness, deafness, and disease can be cured magically. But there are still blind people, deaf people, and people who die of disease.
* Mages are supposed to be relatively rare, but somebody has been blowing a lot of points of CON to make +1 swords, and other low-power magic items. [/B]

1> races that are not "intristicly evil" rarely show up as "evil". Ie, an "evil" thief. who was just a pickpocket, and had never killed anyone, and was good to his mother would not show up as 'evil". Undead, assasins (real ones), EHP, demons, etc all show up as evil, eg.

2. have you every seen how much is costs to have an NPC cas this for someone? Most peasants can't afford it. And, if you were missing your eyes, that would take a 'regen" spell. 7th level.

3> Dwarves, and clerics of certain gods can make weapons & armour of up to +3 withouyt any spelss to speak of- they have said that these are the sources of most low level +ed weapons & armor.

[Johnny Angel]

Danielinthewolvesden wrote:

1> races that are not "intristicly evil" rarely show up as "evil". Ie, an "evil" thief. who was just a pickpocket, and had never killed anyone, and was good to his mother would not show up as 'evil". Undead, assasins (real ones), EHP, demons, etc all show up as evil, eg.

Aha. This explains why I've never known a character to cast it under the 2nd edition rules. By the time you are running into 9th level baddies, you already have access to the more powerful Know Alignment.

But looking, I notice that there weren't nearly such qualifications on the spell in 1st edition. It must have really been pissing DMs off to require this big a nerf.

2. have you every seen how much is costs to have an NPC cas this for someone? Most peasants can't afford it. And, if you were missing your eyes, that would take a 'regen" spell. 7th level.

The thing is that this in itself becomes an issue. The refusal to cast a cure disease on a poor farmer because he could not cough up the turnips would definitely reflect badly on the cleric's alignment. But this issue never comes up. I would think that they gouge the rich (adventurers in particular) but use their spells charitably on the poor. That makes sense, but it still doesn't explain why there aren't enough cure diseases to go around. Sure, not all priests can cast spells. But those that can have those spells back the day after they cast them. In theory, one priest can keep a whole community in good health.

3> Dwarves, and clerics of certain gods can make weapons & armour of up to +3 withouyt any spelss to speak of- they have said that these are the sources of most low level +ed weapons & armor.

Where was this? I mean, I think it's a fine explanation, but I don't remember seeing it in any of my books. I also have only heard anecdotally that cursed weapons are failures at creating enchanted weapons. But there are still magic items that it seems odd that some mage busted a nut to make.

[tracer]

Johnny Angel described his "goober dungeons" thusly:

As soon as the monsters from the second room died, the characters would immediately turn on eachother, and the one who survived would get to step through the door and quaff the free level.

Why would they do this? Was some kind of ring-of-conflict in effect in the second room? Or was this the only way to make the door to the 3rd room open?

D&D dungeons are enough like Survivor already without having to force the characters to kill each other. ;)

[Johnny Angel]

tracer wrote:

Why would they do this? Was some kind of ring-of-conflict in effect in the second room? Or was this the only way to make the door to the 3rd room open?

Because only one person could get the free level, so nobody was going to turn his back long enough to reach for the door until everyone else was dead.

[tracer]

Oh! Oh! Here's another D&D cliche that ought to appear in the movie:

An experienced fighter gets blasted full-on in the chest with a cannon. The cannon ball has impaled him so deeply that it's practically sticking out of his back. He shrugs and quips, "Big deal, I can get hit like that 4 more times before I have to heal."

[Stupendous man]

Marlon Wayons? Marlon Friekin' Wayons??!!
Why would anyone go make their multi-million event movie, and then cast THE most idiotic, annoying, moron on the planet?? I mean c'mon.... The trailer was going fine until I say that face, and heard that voice, and that was pretty much it....

[Jophiel]

But there are still magic items that it seems odd that some mage busted a nut to make.

You mean you wouldn't devote your life to studying the arcane arts just so you could one day spend the time, money and possibly health and create a Saw of Mighty Cutting? C'mon! If given to someone with 18/00 strength he can cut through a 2' thick maple in only ten minutes! Tell me that wasn't the envy of every adventuring group...

[Gozu Tashoya]

Originally posted by Stupendous man
Marlon Wayons? Marlon Friekin' Wayons??!!
Why would anyone go make their multi-million event movie, and then cast THE most idiotic, annoying, moron on the planet?? I mean c'mon.... The trailer was going fine until I say that face, and heard that voice, and that was pretty much it....

In his defense, he was pretty good in Requiem for a Dream.

[tracer]

Jophiel wrote:

You mean you wouldn't devote your life to studying the arcane arts just so you could one day spend the time, money and possibly health and create a Saw of Mighty Cutting? C'mon! If given to someone with 18/00 strength he can cut through a 2' thick maple in only ten minutes! Tell me that wasn't the envy of every adventuring group...
To say nothing of creating the highly revered Spade of Colossal Excavation, with which an 18-strength fighter can dig a 3-foot-wide by 3-foot-deep hole in only one minute.

Or all those cursed items, like Gauntlets of Fumbling and Boots of Dancing. You'll be the envy of everyone else at the magic-user academy when you create items designed to fool thieving adverturers into thinking they're stealing something useful!

[Alessan]

On the other hand, I've always liked the "Ring of Delusion" - the one where you think you're invisible, but you're not. Maybe they can put one in the flick, have an Erik the Viking scene:

"Now you see me - now you don't!"

[tracer]

In the first issue of Fantasy Gamer (1983), they had a table of "Outré Magic Items" -- that is, magic items that are powerful but useless.

Among these items were: A rod of rulership that only works when submerged in the blood of Cthulu.
A coin which, when flipped and asked a yes-no question, will always land on edge.
A ring of invisibility -- when worn, the ring turns invisible but the wearer does not.
A mace of sharpness.
A silver arrow suspended from a string, which always points to the person holding the arrow.
A scabbard of sword resistance -- no sword can be sheathed in it.
The Lance of Quixote: +10 vs. windmills, -2 versus any other target if a windmill is within 400 yards.
A ring of invulnerability -- the ring can never be damaged.I kinda liked the idea of "plate mail of ehterealness", too. Upon command, the plate mail would turn ethereal. Its wearer, however, would remail solid.

[Johnny Angel]

Stupendous Man wrote:

Marlon Wayons? Marlon Friekin' Wayons??!!
Why would anyone go make their multi-million event movie, and then cast THE most idiotic, annoying, moron on the planet?? I mean c'mon.... The trailer was going fine until I say that face, and heard that voice, and that was pretty much it....

Hey, I'm grateful they didn't give Steve Gutenberg a call.

[tracer]

Yeah, they shoulda cast Samuel L. Jackson as a paladin. Why, even the name "Mace Windu" sounds like a D&D weapon!

[Johnny Angel]

tracer wrote:

Yeah, they shoulda cast Samuel L. Jackson as a paladin. Why, even the name "Mace Windu" sounds like a D&D weapon!

Jules Windu: [pointing his sword] Say "Orcus" again. SAY "ORCUS" AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker! Say "Orcus" one more goddamn time!

[tracer]

And we never DID get to see what was in that treasure chest....

[Alessan]

Originally posted by tracer
And we never DID get to see what was in that treasure chest....

Come, come. It was quite obviously Treasure Type G.

[Johnny Angel]

JULES Okay now, tell me about 3rd Edition?

VINCENT What so you want to know?

JULES Well, humans can multi-class, right?

VINCENT Yeah, it's called multi-classing, but it's kind of like dual-classing. I mean, you can't start out as a mage and a thief, and start doing both right away. You're only supposed to advance in one class at a time.

JULES You choose which class to advance in?

VINCENT Yeah, it breaks down like this: everybody goes up levels on the same chart, and you decide every level what class you want to advance in, and as long as no two classes are four levels apart, there's no XP penalty. Every race has a preferred class, which doesn't count when checking for an XP penalty an -- get a load of this -- there's no race restrictions; you can play any class you want. You can play a half-orc paladin/monk.

JULES That did it, man -- I'm fuckin' playin', that's all there is to it.

VINCENT You'll dig it the most. But you know what the funniest thing about 3rd Edition is?

JULES What?

VINCENT It's the little differences. A lotta the same shit we got in 2nd Edition, they still got, but there they're a little different.

JULES Examples?

VINCENT Well, in 3rd Edition, you can cast cantrips. And I don't mean as a first level spell either. They give you zero-level cantrips, like in Unearthed Arcana. In 3rd Edition, priests can cast cantrips. Also, you know what they call THAC0 in 3rd Edition?

JULES They don't call it THAC0?

VINCENT No, they got the d20 System now, A.C. Zero don't mean shit.

JULES What'd they call it?

VINCENT Attack bonus.

JULES (repeating) Attack bonus. What'd they call a Armor Class?

VINCENT A.C.'s A.C., but now it goes up instead of down.

JULES What do they call a Hit Dice?

VINCENT I dunno, I didn't get the DMG. But you know what the damage cap on Flame Strike is in 3rd Edition, instead of 6d8?

JULES What?

VINCENT 15d6.

JULES Goddamn!

[tracer]

Bravo!


Now if only you still got one Experience Point for every gold piece worth of treasure you got out of an adventure....

[tracer]

Oh, wait, I know:

"The way your dad looked at it, the Hand of Vecna was your birthright. He'd be damned if any of the orcs were gonna get their greasy yellow hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something: his ass. Five long years, he stored this severed hand up his ass. Then when he died of dysentery, he gave me the Hand of Vecna. I hid this uncomfortable piece of mummified flesh up my ass for two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the Hand of Vecna to you."