Do you hide your faith? or your atheism? your "lapsed-ness"?

[Belrix]

Inspired by the church attendance thread...

There was a couple mentions in that thread of very lapsed catholics or closeted atheism. I'm wondering how many of you feel the need to hide your faith or, conversely, your atheism.

For you that are claiming to be "lapsed", is this just a euphemism for hidden unbelief or just that you don't practice your faith in a group anymore? Is there a reason you don't practice it despite your belief?

I've got a coworker who claims to be catholic but readily admits to not attending church anymore and admits that he really doesn't believe in some of the basic tenants of catholicism anymore, the things, that to me, differentiate between catholicism and most mainstream protestant belief systems. Still, for his upcoming wedding, he wants to be married in a catholic church and have his divorced, to-be-wife go through the whole annulment thing (though in the event of problems with the annulment, he's willing to have a civil ceremony). So for this non-attending, I-don't-actually-believe-in-the-catholic-part catholic, he's insisting on a catholic ceremony or a non-religious one. A protestant ceremony is not an option.

I think he's confused - I know I am.

If you're an atheist, why not just tell people? Do you fear evangelical backlash?

Frankly, as a computer admin, the land of logical Spock-like coworkers, I feel the need to downplay my faith to avoid the inevitable eye-rolling. However, when I talk about my personal life, I say "I went to church" if I went to church. I don't offer it without reason but I don't go through any sort of verbal acrobatics to avoid it either.

I'm rambling but I'll leave it rambled.

Simply asked: If you avoid discussing your faith (or lack of it), why? Is this avoidance context based (ie: hidden only from you family)?

[askeptic]

Why would I discuss my lack of faith with anyone? It seems to me that belief in or lack of belief in some religious credo should be a private thing. It annoys the heck out of me when anyone wears their religion or lack of it on their sleeves.

[Ephemera]

I discuss my atheism readily if it's relevant and can probably be accused of wearing it as a badge but some people know me for months before they ever discover it.

[fishbicycle]

I never discuss it because it's private, and not really anybody's business but mine. No one knows what my beliefs (or lack thereof) are except for my wife.

P.S.: The word you want is not "tenants," but tenets.

[ZipperJJ]

I avoid discussing my faith because when people think of "Christians" these days they think of fundamentalists, evangelicals or other crazies, because they're the most vocal.

I don't want to be associated with those people, because I'm not "that kind" of Christian.

My faith is very personal, and I don't feel the need to share it. I also don't like to argue about it. I do not have an answer for people who say "how can you BELIEVE that crap?!" Sometimes I wonder myself, and it's easier just not to think about it.

As for going to church...I stopped because I started to feel that I didn't need any schedule or any group to practice my faith. I've got Jesus in my heart and I've got my 13 years of church learnin' in my head and that's all I need to get through the day.

[Eliahna]

I neither hide nor flaunt my atheism. It's not something I'm ashamed of and so I won't hide it, but it's doesn't mean anything to me either. It's just the way it is.

I will refrain from mentioning my atheism if I'm concerned about causing a theist embarrassment or discomfort unless it becomes directly relevant or it would be deceptive to leave it unmentioned. However, I will not tolerate prosetylising and if it starts I will shut down the conversation as quickly as possible, even if it means being (somewhat) rude.

Simply asked: If you avoid discussing your faith (or lack of it), why? Is this avoidance context based (ie: hidden only from you family)?When I avoid it, it's to avoid causing anyone else embarrassment, not myself. I'm not embarrassed about my lack of belief, but I know it can make religious people uncomfortable so I think it's far more polite to leave it unsaid unless it becomes deceitful to continue to say nothing.

[tdn]

I'll discuss my atheism with close friends and some family, but only if there's a real reason to, and if I know that an argument won't break out. I don't feel a need to advertise it to, say, coworkers or clerks. What would be the point?

[cher3]

I hide it from some people, but not others. I also go to church with my family, so most people assume I'm Christian, even though I haven't converted to Catholicism. I don't discuss it at work, because I don't know much about the beliefs of the other people here. There are also some people I know who would be compelled to have tedious discussions with me about the state of my soul, too, which I would rather avoid.

[Rhiannon8404]

I don't hide it by any means, but I don't bring it up out of the blue either.

I try to avoid talking about the specifics of my religion (Roman Catholic) with certain people I know because they don't think Catholics are "real Christians" for a variety of reasons.

[Anne Neville]

I'm in a rather unusual situation- I'm Jewish, my parents and extended family are Protestant (I converted as an adult), my sister and only sibling is "spiritual but not religious", married to a Catholic man, and raising her kids Catholic.

When I was growing up, my mom insisted that we go to church, and we said grace before meals, but we never, ever, discussed religion within our family- it was almost as taboo a topic as sex. I don't discuss religion with my parents. I've never told them that I didn't just convert to Judaism to keep Mr. Neville's family happy (I actually found Judaism quite attractive on its own). The only discussions of religion I have with them have to do with things like what foods are kosher (when we're eating together) and when Jewish holidays or Easter fall this year. I don't really discuss religion with co-workers beyond that level, either.

I'm generally happy to discuss religion, but I don't generally bring it up, because it was a taboo topic when I was growing up.

One of the things I love about the Dope is that there's no taboo on discussing religion here. It's also easier to ignore the "why do you believe that crap?" type of responses or the tedious discussions about the state of my soul and focus on the thoughtful responses than it is in person.

There are also some people I know who would be compelled to have tedious discussions with me about the state of my soul, too, which I would rather avoid.

And then there are those people. I never did tell my grandmother (who died recently) that I had converted to Judaism, because I'm quite sure the result would have been just such a tedious discussion.

Belrix, your co-worker may be what I'd call "culturally Catholic", sort of like a lot of American Jews are culturally Jewish. They don't go to synagogue or keep kosher, but they might celebrate Jewish holidays, and they probably want to get married in a synagogue rather than a church and have a bar or bat mitzvah for their kids. It's a cultural thing, not a religious thing. In your co-worker's case, it may also be a keeping-the-family-happy thing. Family members who are just fine with a child's not practicing their religion on a daily or weekly basis have been known to get quite upset at the prospect of their getting married outside that religion, or not having their kids baptized (or whatever)...

[tdn]

Coworkers. Hmm. I have no idea what faith anyone here is, because it's a topic that never comes up. I know that one woman is Catholic, because she talked about having to go to counselling with her fiance, another goes to church because she talks about the people she knows and how she knows them, and another is JW because she doesn't celebrate holidays and birthdays. About everyone else, I have no clue.

Nobody here ever asks what my religion is or if I've been saved.

My boss correctly assumes that I'm not a creationist, and I suspect that he's an atheist, but aside from having some interesting conversations about evolution, we've never talked about it.

[pinkfreud]

I was raised an atheist. Most of my family and most of my friends are atheists. When I became a Christian, I soon realized that if I wanted to enjoy the company of my family and friends, I'd have to hide my light under a bushel much of the time. Same goes for the SDMB. While I have occasionally mentioned my faith, for every time I mentioned it, there were a hundred times when I thought about posting something and didn't.

Ironically, when I was an atheist, I worked around a group of Christians, so I mostly kept a lid on my views then, too.

[tdn]

I never did tell my grandmother (who died recently)
That brings up an interesting point. My ex and I certainly discussed religion, often on very deep levels. But we made it a point to always respect each others' opinions, and not get into arguments over it.

When her mother died, I made it a point not to let the idea of atheism come up at all. She really needed to believe that her mother was in Heaven. She did not deal with her loss well at all. The most compassionate thing I could have done was to believe right along with her. In fact, for about a year, I desperately wanted to believe.

[jjimm]

I don't diss religion with people whose faith I don't know.

But that said, it's really not an issue in the UK - so few people are religious, and those who are rarely bring it up. Though my parents are Anglican and attend church regularly, out of all my many friends, only one Muslim and one Catholic attend a mosque/church. And if anyone asks me what I do or don't believe, I am quite happy to tell them - because nine times out of ten, they will share my lack of faith.

The only public display of my atheism comes from when I was driving down the street and saw a fish symbol on the back of a car, followed immediately by a car with a Flying Spaghetti Monster symbol, which I'd never seen before. I laughed so hard that I went and bought one.

[nashiitashii]

I don't really talk a whole lot about my faith (animist with Norse cultural leanings), but when I was a Lutheran, I didn't really chat with people about my faith outside of church gatherings. It's not a need to hide it, but really that I think it's completely socially inappropriate to chat about one's faith in most situations; work is one of those places for me where it's especially taboo to talk about one's faith (well, unless you're a paid member of the clergy). There are some situations where I think it's fine to talk about faith, but they mostly tend to be in, say, group discussion where faith is a relevant topic that is currently being discussed. Other than that, I don't chat a whole lot about religion and beliefs, and most of the time, I reply in conversations about "the holidays" that I tend to celebrate Christmas for the sense of family and to make immediate relatives happy rather than the religious aspects of it.

[Cluricaun]

To my own beliefs I consider atheism to be a matter of fact, so while I don’t hide it I simply treat the subject as a matter of fact and don’t discuss it any more than the sky being blue or water being wet.

I do want one of those Cthulhu fish for the back of my car, but that’s more because I’m a nerd with a sense of humor.

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

I've got a coworker who claims to be catholic but readily admits to not attending church anymore and admits that he really doesn't believe in some of the basic tenants of catholicism anymore, the things, that to me, differentiate between catholicism and most mainstream protestant belief systems.
What, to you, are the tenets of Catholicism that differentiate it from most Protestant belief systems? I ask because even though I'm an atheist (and I don't try to hide it), I'm still somewhat culturally Catholic, I went to a Catholic high school where I had four years of Catholic religious education, and I'm not at all sure if anything I learned during these years was specifically Catholic rather than generically Christian. So I'm interested to know what the difference between Catholicism and other flavours of Christianity is to you.

[Misnomer]

My agnosticism usually only comes up when the separation of church and state (and, increasingly, patriotism) does -- which is something I felt strongly about even when I was still Catholic. For example, if I am in a situation where the Pledge of Allegiance is being recited I leave out the "under God" part, but I think only the people right next to me would notice (it's not like I yell the rest of the pledge or anything). Otherwise, I only mention it if someone asks me about my faith or if religion is being discussed and I feel it to be pertinent.

I do not have an answer for people who say "how can you BELIEVE that crap?!"My answer used to be, "There's a reason it's called 'faith'." :)

[gigi]

What, to you, are the tenets of Catholicism that differentiate it from most Protestant belief systems?What I think of,

Transubstantiation, confessing to a priest, priest/bishop/Pope hierarchy, dogma about the conception and assumption of Mary, Mary ever-virgin, original sin, ...


For me, I don't discuss my faith unless it is relevant to the conversation, and I tend to err on the side of not mentioning it at work. It's like sex or politics--not something to talk about at work. But I would never deny my faith if asked about it. That would be a major failing.

[Belrix]

What, to you, are the tenets of Catholicism that differentiate it from most Protestant belief systems? I ask because even though I'm an atheist (and I don't try to hide it), I'm still somewhat culturally Catholic, I went to a Catholic high school where I had four years of Catholic religious education, and I'm not at all sure if anything I learned during these years was specifically Catholic rather than generically Christian. So I'm interested to know what the difference between Catholicism and other flavours of Christianity is to you.
In catholicism, in my opinion, one core belief is that the church acts as a required intermediary between you and God. In catholicism, IMO, it's fully possible to be holier than thou, ie: the priest is holier than you, the bishop is holier than he, the pope is holier than all. According to the catholic catechism, the participation of the church is required for your salvation. In most protestant religions, your relationship is directly with God though your faith with no intermediary necessary.

More importantly is the general protestant belief that faith alone is sufficient for salvation while Catholicism is faith and works being required. This is the concept of Sola Fide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide). Faith demonstrated by action versus faith and the requirement of action.

This is perhaps demonstrated by the debate over the necessity of the sacraments as a condition for salvation, an example being the catholic sacrament of confession as a condition for salvation versus the protestant belief in faith alone for salvation.

[olivesmarch4th]

I consider myself a Buddhist existentialist. All of my friends and family know it, but with aquaintances/people I don't know I try to keep my Buddhism on the d/l, for a number of reasons.

Mostly, I don't want people to assume things about me based on that fact. I have found people have a large number of strange expectations about me based on my religion.

I don't want them to wrongly assume, among other things:

1. I worship the moon (had a Muslim guy ask me this, irony of ironies.*)
2. I worship anything in particular.
3. I labor under the delusion that I'm some sort of always peaceful enlightened being.
4. I'm one of those ''new agey'' kids who latches onto whatever fad sounds interesting.
5. I'm going to talk about it excessively and try to ''convert'' someone.
6. I know an extraordinary amount of information about eastern philosophy and eastern religions.
7. I'm superstitious instead of completely dedicated to the scientific method.

It just seems there is an extraordinary amount of expectation based on revealing that I practice Buddhism. And explaining it inevitably leads to me discussing the other half of my spiritual vision, which is existentialism.

In every day conversation, there is no possible way to discuss existentialism without sounding like a pretentious twat. Also, Nietzsche brings out aggressive tendencies in Christians, so I try not to mention he is my Hero. I worry that people will interpret ''I love Nietzsche'' as ''I hate God and everything Christianity stands for.'' If they in fact have ever heard of Nietzsche. If they haven't, then the only connection I can spark is ''God is dead'' which is not only a completely misrepresented and out-of-context quote, but couldn't possibly sound more confrontational to a Christian.

*On preview: Pre-emptively, I have decided to clarify that the reason it is ironic that a Muslim asked if I worship the moon is because that is one of the biggest falsehoods being spread by fundamentalists about the Muslim faith. (See Chick, Jack T. for horrifying details.)

[Beaucarnea]

I am one of the posters who admitted to attending church as a closeted atheist. The majority of my close friends are Christians, and a fundamental tenet of their practice is witnessing and conversion. They spend much their free time “listening” for signs that an acquaintance needs a witness, and jump at the chance to offer scripture and platitudes at everything from the complaint of a headache to the loss of a family member.

My friends are prepared to witness and convert at any sign of doubt or disbelief, and each feels that it is his or her personal calling to ensure that every loved one will be joining them in Heaven. When a friend slips away from the church, my friends take it as a personal failure of their own faith and practice, and they will fret and pray for hours for the right words to say in order to “Turn her heart.” I do not want to be responsible for causing them any distress, and I certainly do not want to influence them to question their own beliefs. My beliefs are personal IRL. This is the only format in which I will discuss or debate the subject of faith.

I love my friends dearly, and I don’t want them to worry for me, or take my lack of belief as a personal challenge or failure. They would be horrified to think of me roasting in Hell for all eternity, and would lose sleep trying to bring me into the fold. I love my friends; I will not cause them any suffering, and I feel no guilt for either concealing my beliefs or the outright lies I occasionally have to tell as a cover. I honor their requests and go to church whenever I am asked, which is usually for special events or charitable functions. And when they ask me to pray with them, I bow my head.

It is simple. I love my friends.

[elfkin477]

I found the GD thread about problems caused by people's atheism to be puzzling because it's so very far removed from my own experience: I can barely conceive of a workplace where it's common practice to discuss one's religion or lack thereof, nevermind berate people over their lack of faith! I don't know, maybe when people say New Englanders are reserved when it comes to matter of faith they're right, but I don't know the religious persuasions of 90% of people I work with because it never comes up.

It doesn't often come up with friends either, unless I object to someone saying someone should go to hell on the basis that I don't believe people go to hell and/or that people of all faiths will go to heaven. (I was raised universalist)

[Silver Tyger]

I don't hide my atheism from anyone but my parents. I don't want to be harassed about it and I think my mom would. She just doesn't 'get' things and I don't want to deal with it.

It's incrediably stupid, considering they don't go to church at all anymore, which is supposed to be one of those basic things for a Christian.

Oh, and I hide it from the Christian camp I volunteer at (well, I did last year and I don't know if I'm going back. Politics. BS. Would like to swear at the camp directors' daughter. And one of the camp directors. And one of the division directors. Mostly involving the phrase 'you are why Christians look bad' except with stronger language and much waving of arms)

wow I'm rambly and pissed off lately

[pprgrl]

Around most of my family I am a closeted atheist. My family are all JWs, so trying to tell them that I no longer believe in that religion would cause some of them to cut me out of their lives entirely. They know I no longer attend meetings, but they still think that deep down I do believe and one day I'll start attending again. Some of the younger members of my family are in the same position as me - closeted atheist/agnostic/not sure but pretty skeptical about the JW thing, so I do discuss it with them. I do talk about religion and spiritual beliefs with my friends. I really like to understand why they believe what they believe, especially if someone has reached their faith as a process of serious soul-searching and study. I don't try to proselytize my atheism to anyone. I don't tend to make friends with people who don't enjoy talking about spirituality (or lack thereof) or can't do so in a calm, adult manner. If I'm talking to people I don't know I rarely bring it up. I do mention it in classroom discussions, sometimes, if it's relevant to the topic at hand, but again, no proselytizing, no "how can you believe that crap?" I've even been known to attend services of other faiths from time to time. Just because I no longer believe in a god doesn't mean that religion and spirituality stopped being interesting to me. On the contrary, they're still fascinating subjects, and I don't think I'll ever stop wanting to talk about religion (as long as no one will be handing out tracts, that is).

[j666]

I hide my beliefs because I find others' so annoying. I just don't want to discuss them.

... he wants to be married in a catholic church and have his divorced, to-be-wife go through the whole annulment thing (though ... he's willing to have a civil ceremony). ... he's insisting on a catholic ceremony or a non-religious one. A protestant ceremony is not an option.


This makes sense to me in a weird sort of way. If you are going to have a religious ceremony, why borrow another religion?

If her earlier marriage can be declared invalid by Catholic rules, they can have a Catholic wedding if they want.

I can not fault him for trying to hold on to his religion. In fact, the only real problem he need face is the doctrine of papal infallability.

However, if she has children, he should not ask that of her. That is just wrong.

[Lissla Lissar]

I avoid discussing my faith because when people think of "Christians" these days they think of fundamentalists, evangelicals or other crazies, because they're the most vocal.
Sort of the same thing. I tend to dance around it with people I don't know well, because of all the assumptions that can go along with it (e.g. crazy, unthinking, ignorant, going to start evangelising annoyingly). And if I'm talking to Protestants, that I worship Mary and kowtow to the Pope. And am not a Christian.



Interesting. I don't think that the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church implies that priests and bishops and Popes are necessarily holier than laypeople. They have specific vocations and responsibilities which are different from the vocations that laypeople have, but the sacraments they administer are not valid through their own personal holiness, but through the power of Christ. A priest of terrible character can still administer valid sacraments. There's a specific name for the heresy that a priest or pastor's personal character renders sacraments valid or invalid, but I can't remember its name. tomndebb? Bricker?

Oh, yes, and the things I think separate Catholicism and Protestantism are generally papal authority, Mary and the saints, and sacraments (for some churches).

[pinkfreud]

There's a specific name for the heresy that a priest or pastor's personal character renders sacraments valid or invalid, but I can't remember its name.That's Donatism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism).

[Clothahump]

I'm agnostic, and I'm annoyed beyond belief by the number of people who think that is the same as being atheistic.

[C3]

I'm an atheist who attends a UU Fellowship in the Bible Belt. I don't really ever talk about my beliefs because they just don't come up. My close friends, whom I have more in depth discussions with, know that I'm an atheist, but it's not something that really comes up in everyday conversation.

What I find uncomfortable is the UU part. I really don't like telling people I go to "church." Well, I don't go to church, I go to fellowship, but no one knows what the hell that is, so the shorthand is "church." This has come up in conversation, though, and I always feel squeamish. For instance, the women in my playgroup were talking about leaving their kids with caretakers and they were mentioning their church nurseries. My son has had issues at our nursery, so I mentioned it, but now I'm all worried that they think I'm a Christian. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just that I'm soooo not. Another time was when I lost my wallet at UU. I was at an acquaintance's house and she asked me what I was doing that afternoon. I was going to the DMV to get a replacement drivers' license, which led into me telling her that I lost my wallet, etc. She said, "Well, at least you know whoever found it is Godly." Ha! I wanted to say, "Well, that's not likely!" But really, I didn't want to get into it. I feel like a fraud if I mention church, but I feel like I'm trying to hide something if I, well, try to hide it.

[Cleophus]

I don't go out of my way to mention I'm an atheist, but I won't lie if someone asks and the question isn't inappropriate given the circumstances (eg. at work, where'd I respond to the effect of "That's personal"). It's just not a critical facet of myself.

[BaneSidhe]

I definitely keep the fact that I'm a Wiccan under wraps. There's very few people who know it and in the state I live in, letting anyone other than folks I trust implicitly is setting me up for a major amount of bullshit.

[OneCentStamp]

My friends all know I'm atheist. Some of my family knows it, others just know I don't go to church anymore. My workplace is full of very devout, very ostentatious Christians, and I'm actually open about my beliefs when it comes up, and it's never been a problem.

[fessie]

My faith seems to confuse people. Most people who are interested in discussing religion want things black and white - either you're a Christian or a Muslim or an atheist or whatever.

I'm really more of a Taoist. "The Way that can be named is not The Way". Religions can be a helpful, strong, honest attempt to know God, but they're also finite (because they exist as something). I don't think that God is truly knowable because It doesn't have finite dimensions. But we still need to be about knowing - we'll just always do it imperfectly.

So when my Christian friends talk about the Bible, sure, there are principles with which I agree. Absolutely. And I'm glad they're sustained by their religion.

But try to tell them that other faiths hold the same principles and they don't want to hear it. THAT is the problem with organized religion (as opposed to personal faith). Organized religions have boundaries, they stop, there are questions that they simply can't answer but they do so anyway and people just say "Yes!" in order to maintain an illusion of perfect belief.

OTOH, though, the failure of religion doesn't mean there isn't a God.

What pisses me off is when my Christian relatives accuse ME of being arrogant for not subsuming my will to that of their version of God. And I think - how dare THEY presume to know God, presume ownership and definitions.

New Agers, who want to free themselves of the bonds of Christianity, still do the same thing, in different ways. Everyone wants others to follow THEIR path. It doesn't work that way.

So while I'm willing to discuss and interested in religion, I can't seem to find the method.

Instead I just nod where I agree.

I guess that's hiding.

[Nancarrow]

I don't hide my beliefs. Why would I?

[gallows fodder]

I'm a recently lapsed Catholic who now doesn't know what, if anything, she believes anymore. I find it painful to think about and even more painful to talk about, so the only people who know are my parents (who found out when I visited them and asked me when I wanted to go to Mass that weekend). It's no one else's business.

However, in situations where a question about Catholicism has been raised, I will answer freely with no mention of what I personally do or do not believe. I've been Catholic for 28 of my 29 years and was seriously devout for 10 of those years, so if we're talking about facts (Catholics do this, Catholics don't believe that), I'm okay with speaking from that experience.

[BetsQ]

I go out of my way to avoid discussing religion, because it seems like nothing good can come from those discussions. If someone asks a question about my religious practice, I just say, "Oh, I'm not religious," in a tone of voice that I hope indicates that no more info will be forthcoming. The rare exceptions are with very close friends or relatives who I know have similar leanings.

On the other hand, I'd kind of like those of you who don't like to mention you're Christian for fear of being lumped in with the evangelical crazies to speak up occasionally. Often the only references to religion I see in day-to-day life are newspaper articles on fundamentalists in politics and the result is that I have to work to remember that Christian does not necessarily equal opposition to everything I think is important. I need reminders that good people can be religious, too!

[Napier]

I used to make some effort to hide my athiesm because I work as a scientist in a large company, and the Chief Technology Officer, whom I reported to, was a Scientific Creationist and Reverend and Sunday School Teacher. He would rant in meetings about how evolution is only a theory, etc. But then he got caught embezzling and was demoted, and quit about a year later.

Nowadays I am pretty comfortable with people finding out I am an athiest, though I don't make any effort to advertise it and the subject almost never comes up except with good friends. I am just a little nervous about it, because of the nasty things I have heard of happening to athiests who are "out", but practically I don't think that's much of an issue. I wouldn't, though, put the legged fish emblem with "Darwin" written in it on my car. It was a gift and I stuck it on my home shop wall.

[Omega Glory]

I'm agnostic. Outside the family- I don't hide it, but don't try to work it into conversations either. It doesn't come up often.

Inside the family- Faith is brought up fairly often. I'm hiding the truth from a lot of them to keep the peace.

[HazelNutCoffee]

If the topic comes up, I'll say that I'm a fallen-away Catholic. Sometimes if I'm in the mood, I'll talk about my dabbling in Paganism - usually makes for good conversation. I rarely have occasion to meet people who are serious about religion anyway.

I've noticed that most people who were brought up Catholic will still call themselves some form of Catholic (lapsed, fallen-away, etc). I have a friend who hasn't been to Mass in years, yet still identifies with Catholicism in a lot of ways. That probably explains why the OP's friend wants to get married in a Catholic church. I am no longer a practicing Catholic but I would still want to have a Catholic wedding, if my future husband had no problem with it.

[Asimovian]

I have friends even now who are surprised when they find out I have religious beliefs. I grew up Catholic and abandoned that Church a long time ago, but I still have belief in a higher power and occasionally pray. I have, however, enough questions about my own beliefs and enough respect for the beliefs or non-beliefs of others that I never try to shove my opinion down anyone else's throat. Almost all of my friends are either atheists or agnostic; the topic just doesn't come up much.

But to answer the OP, I don't feel I have any reason to hide my beliefs. Either you're OK with my having my opinion, or you aren't. I'm still the same person you knew before you found out. I don't see it as being a big deal.

[MEBuckner]

I don't go around button-holing people and asking them if they've lost Jesus, but I don't hide my (lack of) beliefs, either. Of course I openly engage in all sorts of discussions on this board. In real life, I also have some bumper stickers on my car; one says "Your friendly neighborhood atheist" and the other one says "One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".

(Actually, while I feel no problem at all with being an atheist around here, I'm a little hesitant to discuss having bumper stickers on my car on this board. There seems to be a fairly vocal viewpoint here that bumper stickers and/or public expressions of religious belief--or the lack thereof--are stupid or shallow.)

I have those stickers on my car in response to the still too-widespread attitude that atheists are all America-hating Communists (I mean, OK, some of us are, but hardly all of us); that we're immoral; or that we worship Satan :rolleyes:. I don't expect to convert anyone into giving up their religion; I'm just trying to do my part to dispel the attitudes that lead too many Americans to tell pollsters that, sure, they'd vote for a Catholic or a Mormon or a Jew for President (or a black person, a woman, or a homosexual), but they'd never vote for an atheist....Atheists being presumptively un-American or abnormal (that is, defective, not merely different from the majority in their religious beliefs).

The bumper stickers have led to a tract or handwritten note on the windshield a couple of times; I've also had two or three polite discussions in parking lots about "well, what do atheists, believe in, anyway?", which I think may have been genuinely productive of the above goals, at least with those individual people.

No one's ever offered me violence over them, nor vandalized my car (and I've driven to all sorts of places in the "Bible belt"), although I've had more than one person say they liked my bumper stickers but would be afraid to have them on their car.

[MrDibble]

Depends on who with. I don't go on about it to my in-laws, but otherwise, I'm more outspoken about my atheism in real life than on the Dope.

[gigi]

This makes sense to me in a weird sort of way. If you are going to have a religious ceremony, why borrow another religion?

If her earlier marriage can be declared invalid by Catholic rules, they can have a Catholic wedding if they want.Except that he has to confess his sins and pledge to try to sin no more, and he's already in a state of mortal sin by not going to Mass at all. He also doesn't believe in most of the tenets of the religion. What truth is there behind any pledge he makes to follow the religion? Yeah, he can probably go through the motions and get a Catholic ceremony, but it's hard to see why it's meaningful to him.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

I don't discuss my atheism (what is there to discuss?), but I don't hide it, either. There's a good chance that if a discussion of religion comes up, it's because I'm lamenting some horrific act done in the name of religion somewhere, or as a tangential discussion to a political issue, like SSM or foreign policy.

[Anne Neville]

Except that he has to confess his sins and pledge to try to sin no more, and he's already in a state of mortal sin by not going to Mass at all. He also doesn't believe in most of the tenets of the religion. What truth is there behind any pledge he makes to follow the religion? Yeah, he can probably go through the motions and get a Catholic ceremony, but it's hard to see why it's meaningful to him.

Because there are two components to any religion- a religious belief/practice component, and a cultural component. The cultural traditions associated with a religion can still be attractive to someone who does not follow the beliefs or practices mandated by the religion. There's a really good example of this around this time of year- lots of people who don't go to church or believe in the tenets of Christianity still enjoy celebrating Christmas.

There's more to a Catholic wedding than making a pledge to follow Catholicism. There are also traditions about music, rituals like the unity candle, readings, the setting of the church, and so on- things that people who don't believe in Catholic teachings might like to have at their wedding.

[Poysyn]

I do not hide my Christianity and in a lot of ways it's fairly apparent.

That said I am not a bible-thumper or a fundie.

I am happy to talk about it and am open to questions and discussion but do not try and hammer my beliefs into each and every person I come into contact with.

[Lanzy]

When I'm with other agnostics/atheiests we talk about lots of things but rarely beliefs. When I'm around believers they seem to assume everyone is and once again nothing to talk about. Occasionly I turn down an invitation to go to church, but no one has ever asked me why not.

[Who_me?]

While I identify myself as atheist in most of these types of discussion, I'm not really atheist... I'm more an irreligious agnostic. I don't know there's no God any more than I know there is one. Confusing that even more, I don't really care whether there's a God or not. If there is a God, I don't know whether any religion has His/Her attributes correct or whether their religious laws are correct. Even if some religion got it right, how am I to know which one it is.

I just try to live life in a way that is comfortable to me and act in a way that I feel is moral.

I don't hide my feelings, but I don't have any reason to talk about them. When I get someone preaching to me, I don't tell them that I don't believe in their IPU, I just tell them that I'm not interested in having that conversation. I don't think about God or the lack of God, He/She/whatever is not something I focus on.

[OneCentStamp]

Confusing that even more, I don't really care whether there's a God or not.The term for you is "ignostic." :)

[brendon_small]

Simply asked: If you avoid discussing your faith (or lack of it), why? Is this avoidance context based (ie: hidden only from you family)?

I usually don't mention it unless someone brings it up to me specifically, mostly because I dislike it when religious people (or non-religious people) feel the need to be on a soapbox all the time, but I will openly discuss my atheist beliefs with anyone. It's nothing to hide, but I don't want religion shoved in my face, so I wouldn't shove my non-religion in the face of others...

Brendon Small

[fishbicycle]

The term for you is "ignostic." :)Or "apatheist."

[Who_me?]

Or "apatheist."


I like this one better.

[Jophiel]

Yet another lapsed Catholic here. I still believe in a Higher Power though and I consider myself "ethnically" Catholic as someone of Polish lineage and who enjoys the traditions for the sake of tradition and knowing its the same things my family has done for generations -- but not because I believe God demands them or that God even worries about them. My wife is, what she calls, "Folk Catholic" which is a blend of Catholicism and South American indigenous beliefs (she's from there). But we just call ourselves "Catholic" if it comes up because it's just easier that way.

I don't hide it in that, if something wacky happened at church (we make it once a month), I wouldn't hesitate to talk about it with friends or co-workers. And I make occassional jokes during Lent about how it's the only time of year I eat McD's Fillet-o-Fish. But my frame of mind isn't one where I feel any need to bring the issue up cold.

[j666]

Except that he has to confess his sins and pledge to try to sin no more, and he's already in a state of mortal sin by not going to Mass at all. He also doesn't believe in most of the tenets of the religion.

I did not want to get into repentance, confession, penance, and redemption. Too many non-Catholic thinks it's just a scam, so we can have fun and still get into heaven.

As for the coworker not believing in some (refer to the OP) tenets of Catholism, that's why I mentioned papal infallibility. No-one except Unitarian-Universalists agrees with all the tenets of their religion (or political party or company's policies); as long as the pope has not invoke papal infallibility on an issue, Catholics, just like very one else, are free to disagree with TPTB.

To really debate this we would need to know in what tenets the coworker no longer believes. Celibacy for priests? That's of relatively recent date, is not exclusive to Catholism, and lots of people disagree with it. The divinity of Jesus? That's probably a deal-breaker, but I really am not up on current Catholic doctrine.

I am a lapsed Catholic. The reason we refer to ourselves as Catholic is because we were baptized and confirmed. After that we can be good, bad, or indifferent Catholics, but unless we are excommunicated, we are still Catholic.

[Sampiro]

I let it be known if asked that "I'm not religious" and don't attend church, but I'm not an overt atheist. I don't get into religious discussions and generally just sort of smile and remain silent if people around talk about how wonderful Jesus was to give them that parking space this morning or whatever.

[j666]

...people around talk about how wonderful Jesus was to give them that parking space this morning or whatever.

I really hate that; really. Why in the name of all that means anything at all would Jesus allow people to slaughter each other in the name of anything, including God, and still give one right royal damn about where you park your car?

(That's the kind of thing one prays to saints for.)

[vivalostwages]

I am a lapsed Baptist who no longer attends services but is thinking of going to a Quaker meeting someday. I also visit the Christian Agnostic website for the daily readings.

I don't hide it but I don't make an issue of it either. My brother's family is really into those Left Behind books ( :rolleyes: ) and I just don't want to get into it with them.

[FriarTed]

I'm pretty covert about my Inclusivist views of the Afterlife and my 70 A.D. End Times views at my Assembly of God.

[gigi]

No-one except Unitarian-Universalists agrees with all the tenets of their religion (or political party or company's policies); as long as the pope has not invoke papal infallibility on an issue, Catholics, just like very one else, are free to disagree with TPTB.Really? No one? And then there's not being sure but still following the guidelines of the church as a higher authority.

[j666]

Really? No one?

Yes, really. I know. I've asked them.

I've asked them all.

While each was hooked up to a polygraph.

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

Transubstantiation, confessing to a priest, priest/bishop/Pope hierarchy, dogma about the conception and assumption of Mary, Mary ever-virgin, original sin, ...
Well, many of these dogmas I either know something about but never learned about in religion class, or don't know much about. The truth is the religion classes I had in primary and secondary school were really "moral and Catholic religious education" rather than a sectarian religious education.

My point is that while in theory there are probably large differences between major Christian denominations such as Catholicism and the mainline Protestant denominations, I'm not sure how much of it affects the average believer. My impression is that whether you're a Catholic or a Protestant depends in large part on which ethnic group you belong to rather than on any choice on your part. In this context, having someone who's Catholic, maybe devoutly so, but doesn't necessarily even know about many of Catholicism's dogmas isn't entirely surprising.

[drm]

I'd been an atheist/Buddhist for a long time but over the past six months I have shifted a LOT further toward the atheist side. That's important because the shift really indicates my current feelings on religion. I don't like it. At all.

So I guess that's my round about way of saying that yes, I do hide my atheism because I figure it helps to avoid confrontation. The reason being is that I've been, well, confrontational recently.

[gigi]

Yes, really. I know. I've asked them.

I've asked them all.

While each was hooked up to a polygraph.
:p

[Epimetheus]

I'm more of an agnostic Deist these days, but I had very atheistic views for awhile. In both instances, I kept it pretty much under wraps. I think my sister knew, and a few close friends, but that is about it.

[j666]

:p ;)