You-Solve-It Mafia Game

[zuma]

In fact, everyone here who is pro-town would want a day extension. I encourage all of you to request it. Sorry NAF and mgtman. I think if just about everyone here demands a day extension they may give us one.

[One And Only Wanderers]

In fact, everyone here who is pro-town would want a day extension. I encourage all of you to request it. Sorry NAF and mgtman. I think if just about everyone here demands a day extension they may give us one.

That's a little strong. I'm sure it's possible to have reasons to not want an extension and still be pro-town.

[storyteller0910]

Yeah.. our mods said that the day could be extended at their discretion.. I think if there was an effort made on our part to get it extended that they would do it. I encourage everyone to lobby for a day extension. If they don't, we can at least take something from those who remain silent or resist a day extension. Plus I think that even if they don't extend, we can learn something from those who oppose or do not request the day extension.

I don't think 48 hours is too much to ask considering the time it has taken to work through the dossier mechanic.

You know what? I don't agree. I think an extension would be of benefit to the town, and I am town, but I oppose an extension. If we spent seven days chatting about the dossiers and not about who to lynch, then that's: (1) bad collective play on our part; and (2) good play on the part of the scum. It would be incredibly unfair to grant an extension in such a case. I wouldn't want that sort of advantage, any more than I'd want to be granted a fourth strike if I swing and miss at a third.

And if y'all want to lynch me for this opinion, that's certainly your prerogative, but I would rather win fair than get mod-granted advantages and win in that way.

[brewha]

Right now the day ends in 31hrs and 15 mins. I think if we start discussing the dossiers we may be able to come to a concesus. I'm not at all opposed to extending the day - I'm just afraid if we wait for NAF's answer, we'd be wasting time if he refuses to extend the day.

NAF, can we get an extension?

I don't see the need to wait for Hal's reveal. He's already set himself apart from the crowd by claiming a power role. And, if he is scum, he could easily make up a dossier based on the (by my count) 64 characteristics that have already been posted.

If we don't hear from NAF or MtgMan by 10:00 (1 hr 40min) I'm going ahead with the discussion.

[zuma]

story just earned a spot on my trusted town list. He's completely wrong of course, but scum would not so openly take that position

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm with Storyteller on this one. I assume the purpose of allowing extensions was to account for non game related events (holidays etc.) and they would be given if it was fair to both sides of the game. Would you think it was right for the town to get an extension if there was a role claim within the last couple hours of a day? By outright claiming that the extention is to help the town, I'd say it goes against the spirit of the extension offer. It certainly not anyones fault besides us townfolk that we were so disorganized in revealing our dossiers.

[zuma]

Storyteller is right in that it is unfair to scum, and I have been the biggest scum apologist to date. Scum never really had a chance in just about every game we've played. There's a reason I like this game... scum have a chance. We cannot mislynch 18 times and have 3 backup doctors protect 8 cops

[Hockey Monkey]

Asking for an extension because we have collectively noodled around and not gotten down to business isn't fair to anyone playing. I'm not in favor of an extension of the day. We still have some time to discuss the lynch.

[zuma]

We'll probably fuck up the lynch and kill a noisy townie yet again. I propose we lynch one of the quiet ones

[brewha]

I never really thought of the fairness to the scum. We knew what the length of the day was and we wasted a bunch of time. Let's sally forth!

Here's (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=443152&page=1&pp=50&highlight=truths)the big pattern I've been talking about.

It turns out, the more that I research it, the more it is worthless to determining scum. It seems out moderators took most of our traits from that thread - but not all. My original suspicion of Zuma was that some of his traits didn't show up in that thread - such as 'aliens steal my socks'. But with more and more reveals, I found several more that didn't show up in the thread. I kept thinking that it was scum showing themselves, until someone posted a characteristic that wasn't in that thread along with one of my own characteristics before I had revealed it.

So, while the characterisics may help in determining whose lying, unless we can find where the rest came from, the dossiers appear to be worthless. I'm guessing that the traits not from that thread may have just come from NAF's head. Which means there's no way to track them.

Our best bet on determining scum at this point would be to see who tried to delay the reveals. Who wasted our time?

Unless MHaye can explain why he took so long on his reveal:

Vote MHaye

[brewha]

I propose a homework assignment. Take this list:


1.storyteller0910
2.HazelNutCoffee
3.Freudian Slit
4.brewha
5.MHaye
6.ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
7.sachertorte
8.Hawkeyeop
9.ShadowFacts
10.Santo Rugger
11. Pleonast
12. One And Only Wanderers
13. Rysto
14. Hal Briston
15. faithfool
16. zuma
17. Hockey Monkey
18. Kat
19. Diomedes

and do some research on the person under your name.Dio you skip back to the top and research Story. Rysto you can skip Hal for now and do Faithfool. Find their characteristics and try to match them to characteristics in the 2 truths and 1 lie thread. CTRL F works really well for this. Come back here and post the ones not on that thread. Maybe we can find a theme.

[zuma]

I'm good with brewha. I also think he's town. Oooh there I said it. We need to get away from always lynching the noisy townie on day 1. Mhaye and his delay tactics are a good lynch for me at this time.

Trusted:

Doimedes
Pleonast
brewha
story

So there.

[zuma]

I like yourt idea. Hockeymonkey will be investigated this holiday season.

[brewha]

Here's what I found out on MHaye
His public trait - I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles- is on the 2Ta1L thread.


None of these are, but they are all shared with at least one other person
As for my dossier; my love of Zombie humour is well known.
I believe the Honda Element is a good-looking car.
I enjoy practising the cello.
I played piano with Sly Stone in a Holiday Inn restaurant.


This one is neither in the thread or shard with anyone.
I have met Chuck Norris

[One And Only Wanderers]

Rysto's dossier facts I couldn't find in the thread

I wear a size 7 shoe.

I was in a biker movie.

I believe the cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.

Farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.

I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.

[Hockey Monkey]

I propose a homework assignment. Take this list:


1.storyteller0910
2.HazelNutCoffee
3.Freudian Slit
4.brewha
5.MHaye
6.ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
7.sachertorte
8.Hawkeyeop
9.ShadowFacts
10.Santo Rugger
11. Pleonast
12. One And Only Wanderers
13. Rysto
14. Hal Briston
15. faithfool
16. zuma
17. Hockey Monkey
18. Kat
19. Diomedes

and do some research on the person under your name.Dio you skip back to the top and research Story. Rysto you can skip Hal for now and do Faithfool. Find their characteristics and try to match them to characteristics in the 2 truths and 1 lie thread. CTRL F works really well for this. Come back here and post the ones not on that thread. Maybe we can find a theme.


Already done...I'll try to post a link soon to my spreadsheet. The only one I don't have in there is Hal and I wanted to get all of the dossiers before drawing any parallels.

[brewha]

Another fun fact, all of MHayes traits (except for the Chuck Norris one) were posted before he posted his. There's no reason he couldn't have taken all of them from other players. I'm pretty confident that he lied about his dossier. If you can't be trusted, I see no place for you at this retreat. I'm happy with my vote.

[Hockey Monkey]

OAOW, don't take it personally when I say you haven't done your homework.

Rysto's traits about the shoe size and the biker movie are in fact in the Two Truths and a Lie thread. His other traits are in another thread.

[brewha]

I was afraid someone else was doing a Spreadsheet. If I can find a place to host mine, I'll post it as well.

[MHaye]

Some driveby comments on this.Here's what I found out on MHaye
His public trait - I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles- is on the 2Ta1L thread.That's not my public trait, and I never said it was. Read my post again.


None of these are, but they are all shared with at least one other person
As for my dossier; my love of Zombie humour is well known.
I believe the Honda Element is a good-looking car.
I enjoy practising the cello.
I played piano with Sly Stone in a Holiday Inn restaurant.


This one is neither in the thread or shard with anyone.
I have met Chuck NorrisSince I'm very uncertain that the "Two truths and a lie" thread has anything to do with the distribution of the traits, I'll do DarkCookies later. I have a few other things I want to deal with first, some of which are even related to this game.

[One And Only Wanderers]

OAOW, don't take it personally when I say you haven't done your homework.

Rysto's traits about the shoe size and the biker movie are in fact in the Two Truths and a Lie thread. His other traits are in another thread.


I did search on every page using the words shoe, cruelty, etc etc and only founf the one about the forest fire.

[brewha]

OAOW, don't take it personally when I say you haven't done your homework.

Rysto's traits about the shoe size and the biker movie are in fact in the Two Truths and a Lie thread. His other traits are in another thread.

The other traits are in another thread? Sweet! I'm hoping you are going to cover all this in your spreadsheet?

[Hockey Monkey]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pGFzeVMas_HcWdROWFdQNLA

Hopefully this link works.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

The other traits are in another thread? Sweet! I'm hoping you are going to cover all this in your spreadsheet?

The other thread, for everyone's edification, is right 'chere (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=393635)

[Hockey Monkey]

I printed out the thread days ago and have been through it with a fine tooth comb. There are a couple of people with some discrepencies on wording. If you look at the spreadsheet, it notes the player, the reveal order, the trait, who shares that trait with them, and the thread that it came from.

I will update it when Hal posts his dossier.

Either everyone figured out where the traits came from or the scum did a good job of copying others, or no one lied. No one has made up a trait out of whole cloth.

There are quite a few traits that are shared, and some that are not. This is where I think the pattern lies.

[Hockey Monkey]

By the way, the status column that says true or lie, I gave up on because not all of the posts were answered.

[Hal Briston]

Okiee doke -- here's my list:

I have a near phobia of octopi. (Public)
I started a forest fire by playing with matches.
I have gone to Disney World 3 times and Disneyland at least 5 times
I sat next to Robert Plant at Fat Tuesdays.
I have performed on stage at Branson, MO.
I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to be as miserable as straight couples. If they want to get married, let them.

As for who else was honest with their dossier reveal: Beats me. As far as I'm aware, the entire 7% secret was me having a copy of faithfool's dossier. I only hinted that I might have had more info that that in order to encourage honest reveals from the scum.

[brewha]

Crap, the Chuck Norris thing is in the 2ta1l thread. So, if no one made up traits, I can't see how the dossier will help at all at this point.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Another chunk of data that might be good for Hockey's spreadsheet is who said what first. The unshared one-offs are easy, i.e. I was the first one to state "I believe that corporations and the wealthy are no longer sufficiently taxed." and it is not yet shared by anyone else. You could fill the cells with one color for the unshared statements, and another color for the first person to publicly state each of the shared traits.

[Hockey Monkey]

Updated spreadsheet. Sheet 1 is sorted according to trait, sheet 2 is sorted by reveal order. I'm going to step away from this for a few minutes and let you guys have a go at it.

Hal's characteristics pinged me as lies, but that may be because his last trait was actually my post in that thread.

[Pleonast]

Sorry that I didn't get time to post yesterday. Work and family are tricky to balance this time of year.

I've put together a Google doc with everyone's Dossier (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dwp82xq_28grb4g5ft&hl=en). I'm still missing a few. I'll go back through the thread and do a more thorough search. (On preview, Hockey has out-done me. Great job!)

zuma, thanks that you trust me, but trust lists haven't worked so well in the past. Scum like to use them as target lists (taking out the Townies that people trust). Scum will also publish their own trust lists to try to gain the confidence of Townies (oh, he trusts me, he must be on my side) or bring down Townies when they go down. Better to avoid using trust lists altogether. Mistrust lists are useful, of course.

About delaying the end of the Day: as a game mod, I would never extend the Day, but I used firm-fixed end points in my game. Flexible end points are too easy to game. But since our handsome moderators have given themselves some flexibility, I don't see any harm in begging for an extension.

We've kind of screwed ourselves by concentrating too much on the Dossiers, which is why I advocated everyone throwing them out quickly. They're not going to help us immediately; we simply needed them on the record quickly so the Scum couldn't manipulate them. I suggest we concentrate on picking our lynch target now, and do analysis later.

For the moment, I'm going to
vote Hal Briston
for encouraging everyone to post their Dossier, while conveniently keeping for his last. And no explanation of his "secret".

On preview: he's revealed now. But his explanation really bugs me. faith made a bad "slip". I'm not sure about his alignment, but I'll give the benefit of a doubt at this point. I'm not going to meta-game about Mtgman's reply. For now, faith has an extra mark of suspicion, but not enough for a Day one vote. Yes, I'm soft-hearted to newbies.

But then Hal says faith is truthful about the Dossier. He claims it's because he knows his Dossier. No one else's, only faith's. Well, because of the set up with this game, I'm extremely suspicious of any claims of perfect knowledge. Their aren't supposed to be any power roles, so the only players with extra knowledge should be the Scum.

So I see three scenarios:
1) Hal is Town and telling the truth. This doesn't say anything about faith's alignment, since some Scum may decide to tell the truth. A very strange secret. I'm inclined to disbelieve.
2) Hal is Scum and clumsily trying to "save" fellow Scum faith. While I wouldn't expect Scum to do something so blatant, it could be a great bluff because no one would expect Scum to do it.
3) Hal is Scum and is trying to WIFOM with Townie faith. Playing off the obvious and risky option 2, Hal is trying to play games with us. He builds our confidence in faith (and faith's confidence in him). If we do lynch him, that confidence is likely to lead us to faith who already has a strong scum tell (which explains why Hal picked faith to target).

Overall, I'm happy with my vote on Hal.

On second preview: I got to stop typing and post at some point. :p

[NAF1138]

NAF, can we get an extension?




While managment appreciates your attempt to think outside the box on this project, in this case your solution to the problem at hand undermines several of the company's long term goals.

Take it back to the drawing board. The deadline can't be moved toDay.

[brewha]

I can't get to docs.google at work, so I had to post a screenshot of my spreadsheet. It's pretty self explanatory. The traits are abreviated, but enough is there to know which trait is which. The ones highlighted in yellow mean that they are shared. I don't know if this helps or not.

Spreadsheet (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2140/2125239134_0433a8e4b5_o.jpg)

[brewha]

Thanks for the ruling NAF

also, per the spreadsheet, the traits are listed in order - kinda. I listed all of mine first, then all the public ones, then any new ones in the order they are revealed.

[brewha]

first link doesn't work. try this one

SpreadSheet (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2100/2124482487_38e0e0c940_o.jpg)

[Hockey Monkey]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...s_HcWdROWFdQNLA

Sheet 1 is sorted by characteristic
Sheet 2 is sorted by reveal order

Both sheets have the non-shared traits in blue text. I thought it was important to note the reveal order.

[Pleonast]

Nice work, Hockey, even if you do turn out to be scum. :)

I'm thinking the secret is the fact that all the Dossier statements came from those two threads.

And either the Scum have told the truth about their Dossiers or are smarter than I am.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Hockey's link in post %536 no workie for me...

[Hawkeyeop]

I may be duplicating some work here, but here is the amount of traits by player that are unique, copied, and original but lated copied, amoung players private traits.

Unique = U
Copied = C
First=F

Pleonast
2U, 1C, 2F

Diomedes
2U, 1C, 2F

Hockey Monkey
2U, 3F

Zuma
2U, 1C, 2F

Faithfool
2U, 3C

Rysto
1U, 1C, 3F

HazelnutCoffee
1U, 2C, 2F

Brewha
4C, 1F

Storyteller
3U, 1C, 1F

Cookies
1U, 3C, 1F

Mhaye
1U, 4C

OAOW
4C, 1F

Sachertorte
4C, 1F

Shadowfacts
3U, 2C

Freudian Slit
1U, 4C

Kat
1U, 4C

Hawkeyeop
2U, 3C

Hal Briston
1U, 4C

Feel free to double check my work. More thoughts later

[Pleonast]

The link worked for me.

I know we shouldn't be over-analyzing the Dossiers yet (running out of time to lynch), but I couldn't help but notice that later-posted Dossiers tend to have more overlap than earlier ones. Might be confirmation bias, so someone needs to check more carefully. Copying an earlier revealed Dossier statement from a Townie is an obvious technique that Scum might take. But the Dossiers are only a distraction at this point.

Can we have a vote count?

We really need to start up the lynching discussion. It's going to take ten of us. Everyone needs to put out a vote today (Thursday) so we can narrow down our choices and pick someone tomorrow (Friday). If too many of us delay discussion and voting, we'll end up with a rushed lynch that helps the Scum more than us.

[NAF1138]

3 - MHaye (OAOW, zuma, brewha)

2 - zuma (sach, Mhaye)

1 - Diomedes (Storyteller)
1 - faithfool - (Dio)
1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast)


8 out of 18 votes cast.
With 18 alive 10 starts the clock and 12 ends the Day.

There will be no lynch without a majority.

Day ends no later then Friday December 21st at 1:30 pm Pacific (by board time).

1 Day 4 hours and 15 minutes or so left before the deadline.

Go Team!

[NAF1138]

Can we have a vote count?



Look at me, I'm psychic!

[Pleonast]

Look at me, I'm psychic!Get out of my mind!

[Freudian Slit]

The only thing I have so far is MHaye's delay.

I don't know if I really want to vote for him based on that but it's the only thing we have to go on so far, IMHO. And I suppose it's better to vote than to sit around talking about how we SHOULD vote. (Vote or die!)

And I have time to change this....So...

Vote MHaye

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

But then Hal says faith is truthful about the Dossier. He claims it's because he knows his Dossier. No one else's, only faith's. Well, because of the set up with this game, I'm extremely suspicious of any claims of perfect knowledge. Their aren't supposed to be any power roles, so the only players with extra knowledge should be the Scum.

On further review, technically they don't say there are no power roles. Only no masons, docs, vigilantes, etc. Hal's 'power' is definitely outside the box of any Mafia (the game, not the side) roles I've heard of.

[Hockey Monkey]

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pGFzeVMas_HcWdROWFdQNLA

try this one :)

[ShadowFacts]

First, thanks Hockey Monkey for collating all that information in a very understandable format. Hopefully it will come in handy at some point :)

Second, I agree that we need to get rolling on voting. The person that has pinged me the most so far is brewha, who seems to be playing a rushed game. First it was his FOS on zuma (followed by the bizarre drunk swearing). It was only an FOS, but it was really aggressive:
Zuma, I believe that you have made up four of your traits. Either come clean with your real ones with an explanation why you lied about them, or I'm forced to vote for you.

Today, it's Mhaye, but he's gotten two things wrong in that pursuit:
Here's what I found out on MHaye
His public trait - I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles- is on the 2Ta1L thread.

Turns out that is NOT actually Mhaye's public trait. And...
This one is neither in the thread or shard with anyone.
I have met Chuck Norris
Which he also had to retract, as it was in the Two Truths thread.

All of this reads to me as rushing to judgment, and flailing around for any reason to get the ball rolling on someone, which IMO is not pro-town.

vote brewha

[Pleonast]

No Cops, no Vig, no SK, no Bombs, no Role Blockers, no Masons, no Recruitment, no Multiple Factions, forget pretty much everything you've known as Mafia on these boards and others. This is a flavor driven game, and the mechanics are VERY straightforward and out in the open(for 93% of the game's rules). The remaining 7% isn't something to count on, or lose sleep over. It's just a little something we threw in to keep y'all good and paranoid.Hal's claimed special knowledge doesn't seem to fit in the spirit of this game. He could be telling the truth, since his power doesn't explicitly violate NAF's statements, but it strikes me more as a scum ploy. He managed to get his Dossier revealed last. And connected himself with a player who's already drawn heat. It just doesn't add up as pro-Town to me.

Feel free to disagree. I'm stating where my suspicions lay. Everyone should do the same.

If no one else votes for Hal, I'll change to someone else. We need to lynch someone.

[Hockey Monkey]

I think that everyone was given at least one unique characteristic, and OAOW and brewha's revealed dossiers do not have any unique ones. (Sachertorte does have one - he climbed to the top chamber of Cheops.)

I will put a vote right now on OAOW. Plus he drove a VW bug through the front door of a 7-11, although right now, that is a secondary reason for my vote.

vote One And Only Wanderers

[sachertorte]

As I have stated before, I do not think we should be mining the dossiers for 'scum tells.' Anything we come up with could be coincidence, scum manufactured, or mod-manufactured. We should be relying on behavior analysis which is the core of what makes mafia, mafia.

However, if analyzing the dossiers bring you entertainment and enjoyment or you feel differently about the utility, by all means proceed. I'm just stating right now, before any conclusions are posted, that I'm skeptical from the start.

My thoughts on brewha:
When brewha stated that he found something in the (at the time very few) revealed dossiers, I was suspicious. I didn't see how someone could find a pattern or something notable with so few dossiers revealed unless he had extra information (scum dossiers). Since then brewha has admitted being on the wrong track. I'm inclined to believe that a pro-Town brewha might have simply jumped the gun in noticing a pattern, but then backtracked when he realized that he made his conclusions with insufficient data. Furthermore, I don't see a scum brewha bringing up a pattern unless he was fairly certain the pattern would hold up, which it ultimately didn't. The motivation for scum to stick his neck out just doesn't seem right (Disclaimer: see Santo Rugger claim in The Conspiracy). Anyway, I was suspicious of brewha, but I think the motivational circumstances point more town than scum.
In retrospect, I wish I hadn't said anything about how I was skeptical about brewha and Diomedes finding patterns with such little data. I fear that I might have tipped them off to back off their statements. However, the fact that they found a secondary dossier source supports their change in attitude as being genuine rather than manufactured.
One needling thing about brewha, is that (according to HM's spreadsheet) Hockey Monkey revealed her dossier before zuma and had an item that was not in the "two truths and a lie" thread. Why throw suspicion at zuma and nothing at HM at the time?

End of Day stuff:
I'm more concerned about the start and end of Tomorrow. If we go according to schedule and scum take the full 48 hours, Day Two begins Sunday Night (23 Dec) and ends Sunday Night (30 Dec). I will not be available to play until Thursday Morning, which leaves (me) little time for discussion and a yucky weekend end-of-Day. So perhaps instead of asking for extensions for Today, perhaps we should ask for extensions for Tomorrow (though I question my availability on new year's eve and new year's day as well). Is everyone else (or a significant subset) going to be out of contact like me?

On Preview:
I surmised the existence of a secret power role from the 7% statement by NAF. 14 Townies: 1/14 ~ 0.07. So unless someone else is the secret power townie, I'm believing Hal Briston.

[Freudian Slit]

Christmas Eve/Day shouldn't be a problem for me...I'm not observing it. But New Years Eve and Day will probably find me out of commission. We should probably find some way to work around those dates if a lot of people are going to be busy.

[brewha]

I'm leaving Sat morning (21st) and getting back on tues night (25th) - but I should be able to check in periodically. I get a 5 day weekend (fri-tues) the following weekend, but I'm not going anywhere. I should be able to keep up.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Eek. I'm away for a day and much has happened. Just checking in to let you guys know I'm still here. My guests I've buried in the backyard have finally left so I'll be around regularly starting this evening.

[Pleonast]

I'll be "working" next week after Christmas and since most everyone else will be away, it's likely to be much free time for me during the work day. Unless something happens, in which case I'll be the only one around to do it. So, I'm either totally here or completely gone next week. :)

[sachertorte]

I think that everyone was given at least one unique characteristic, and OAOW and brewha's revealed dossiers do not have any unique ones. (Sachertorte does have one - he climbed to the top chamber of Cheops.)

I will put a vote right now on OAOW. Plus he drove a VW bug through the front door of a 7-11, although right now, that is a secondary reason for my vote.

vote One And Only Wanderers
(color removed)

I've been railing against Dossiers all week, and this is precisely why.

Why is it a requirement that everyone be given at least one unique characteristic? I don't think we should assume this.

Similarly, why would a scum OAOW tell us that he had driven a VW bug through the front door of a 7-11 when he already knew that Santo Rugger's killer had the same characteristic? A Townie wouldn't lie, but scum easily could. If OAOW were scum, he could have poached a characteristic from the many public dossiers already posted. (My personal opinion is that Santo Rugger's killer lied about his/her dossier and did not state the VW bug characteristic).

From my interpretation of your accusation point #1, implies that OAOW lied about his dossier, thus changing his real dossier which contained at least one unique item into the one he posted, which has no unique items. Simulaneously, you point out that OAOW's attribute is consistent with the killer, which implies that you think OAOW is the killer and did not lie about his dossier.

While I suppose it is possible that a scum OAOW was truthful about part of his dossier and lied about other parts; I don't think a scum OAOW would choose to lie in the way you describe.

I'm very much against drawing conclusions in such a dossier-centric manner. It is too easy for scum to point out random dossier anomalies and indicate that the anomaly equates to scumhood.

[faithfool]

Since I'm still so very unsure about what I'm doing, I think I'll agree with Pleonast that Hal's version of things doesn't pass muster with me either. (Sorry Hal, I adore you, sheep and all, but dear Og this whole freakin' thing has me confused and I've only got this one glimmer of understanding. I think....) For if I also go with it from the most basic of the rules set forth, this is, according to our esteemed moderators, as completely vanilla a game as one can get. That said, I don't think Hal's claim can be legit as I feel the 7% cannot violate what, in my humble opinion, has already been spelled out by the rules.

Yes, that was awful, but hopefully you all will get what I mean. :)

Anyway, I do appreciate you coming to my aid Hal because no matter what, that was really a non-scummy thing to do. [Translation: I am not saying that I am either town or scum, but that I'm glad for Hal making me feel like not such a pariah, for whatever reason he did so. Further, the latter statement is purely meant as funny (playing off this whole scum business that we're here for), like ha ha. Not as in that I know he's scum. Hopefully that'll clear things up to at least muddy.] So, without anymore ado....

vote Hal

Oh, and I'll be working out the rest of my summary of Zuma and post it soon.

[Hal Briston]

Hal's claimed special knowledge doesn't seem to fit in the spirit of this game. He could be telling the truth, since his power doesn't explicitly violate NAF's statements, but it strikes me more as a scum ploy. He managed to get his Dossier revealed last. And connected himself with a player who's already drawn heat. It just doesn't add up as pro-Town to me.
Just to clarify -- I didn't "manage" to get my dossier revealed last -- my name just happened to come up last via the randomization process (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9276176&postcount=324). Any problem with that should be taken up with the NBA (and if you do, please throw in a "Fire Isiah" chant too, would you please?).

It was faithfool's position as second-to-last on that list that forced me to call her out and ask that she reveal early. I didn't want to her have additional data points to cover her tracks in case she were scum.

Actually, when we came down to only a handful of unrevealed dossiers remaining, I figured that the scum already had enough revealed dossiers from which to pluck covering data, and so there was no reason for me not to reveal. Then I realized that any scum who hadn't yet posted might take that to mean I had already revealed all I knew (which was true, but I didn't want to give them reason to believe it), so I decided to keep with the suggested order and go last.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I still don't like faithfool. Her initial statement, despite mtgman's ditch for her, still seems off for me. Secondary confirmation stinks to high heaven (who needs to take time to respond to a PM? Signing up for an offboard site, on the other hand...). And her whole "vote for me... I don't wanna play, 'cuz I might hurt my side.... oh, wait, I'll play with you guys" deal also raises my ire. But it looks like she's getting a pss on thatfrom everyone...
So.... I'll join on board with the "What's with MHaye?" deal... gotta lynch someone, and he smells ripest amongst the major contenders.

unvote: faithscum
vote:Mhaye

[Pleonast]

Just to clarify -- I didn't "manage" to get my dossier revealed last -- my name just happened to come up last via the randomization process (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9276176&postcount=324). Any problem with that should be taken up with the NBA (and if you do, please throw in a "Fire Isiah" chant too, would you please?).Doh! I had simply skimmed over the random-order stuff, since it didn't affect me. That does remove some of my suspicion of you. I still don't like your claimed special knowledge, though.

[One And Only Wanderers]

unvote faithscum?

lol is that some kind of freudian slip?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

unvote faithscum?

lol is that some kind of freudian slip?

Rysto on cock, faithfool being faithscum... either I need to try out this handy-dandy 'preview' button, or I need to get my head examined. :)

[Freudian Slit]

unvote faithscum?

lol is that some kind of freudian slip?
I resemble that!

[faithfool]

Rysto on cock, faithfool being faithscum... either I need to try out this handy-dandy 'preview' button, or I need to get my head examined. :)

Do I need to put this in blue to say that I vote for both? :)

[Hockey Monkey]

(color removed)

I've been railing against Dossiers all week, and this is precisely why.

Why is it a requirement that everyone be given at least one unique characteristic? I don't think we should assume this.

Similarly, why would a scum OAOW tell us that he had driven a VW bug through the front door of a 7-11 when he already knew that Santo Rugger's killer had the same characteristic? A Townie wouldn't lie, but scum easily could. If OAOW were scum, he could have poached a characteristic from the many public dossiers already posted. (My personal opinion is that Santo Rugger's killer lied about his/her dossier and did not state the VW bug characteristic).

From my interpretation of your accusation point #1, implies that OAOW lied about his dossier, thus changing his real dossier which contained at least one unique item into the one he posted, which has no unique items. Simulaneously, you point out that OAOW's attribute is consistent with the killer, which implies that you think OAOW is the killer and did not lie about his dossier.

While I suppose it is possible that a scum OAOW was truthful about part of his dossier and lied about other parts; I don't think a scum OAOW would choose to lie in the way you describe.

I'm very much against drawing conclusions in such a dossier-centric manner. It is too easy for scum to point out random dossier anomalies and indicate that the anomaly equates to scumhood.

I'm trying to figure out the puzzle just like everyone else. I believe that there is a pattern to the commonalities and the differences, and that's what we have to figure out. If the majority of the people have something unique, then the ones that don't are an anomoly and at the very least, a place to start. Yes, I think OAOW lied about his dossier, but cleverly left in the VW part and the self deprication to throw us off his scent. You think a scum wouldn't lie in that manner, but I do. I think once it was revealed that we all shared some traits with someone else, the scum may have replaced some of their traits with ones shared with others. If we do in fact have at least one unique trait each, then it stands to reason that maybe a scum didn't figure that out and replaced too many of his traits with someone else's. I was really hoping that someone would make something up out of whole cloth, but I guess we are all smarter than the average bear.

[Hawkeyeop]

vote Hal Briston

His claimed ability makes much more sense as a scum then a townfolk. The scum, would arguably need such an ability so they don't seem suspicious after an inevitable dossier reveal. This way they could claim qualities before others and make it seem like they were copied. As a town ability it just seems way too powerful. Plus from a general theme standpoint, it makes much more sense that the disgruntled employees were keeping track of their coworkers, then the other way around.

I find Mhaye suspicious as well but slightly less so for now.

[Hal Briston]

As a town ability it just seems way too powerful.Bwuh? Too powerful?

People need to stop referring to this as an "ability". There was no ability here -- my PM mentioned that faithfool's briefcase was mistakenly delivered to my room, and that I was a nosey bastard who went through it and found out her quirks. End of story. No more info to come, no more finding out who revealed truthfully or not, no nothing. That's the whole big fat 7%.

"Too powerful"? Sheesh...

[Hawkeyeop]

Bwuh? Too powerful?

People need to stop referring to this as an "ability". There was no ability here -- my PM mentioned that faithfool's briefcase was mistakenly delivered to my room, and that I was a nosey bastard who went through it and found out her quirks. End of story. No more info to come, no more finding out who revealed truthfully or not, no nothing. That's the whole big fat 7%.

"Too powerful"? Sheesh...

Hal, Do you have reason to believe that your extra "knowledge" is the entire secret? One person having 1 extra dossier doesn't seem like 7% to me. I'm not doubting that is all you know, just that there isn't anything else out there.

[Pleonast]

I kind of agree with Hal: his special knowledge isn't powerful. It's well nigh useless. Which makes me more suspicious of the claimed knowledge.

How does his knowledge of faith's Dossier help the Town? If faith is Town, it helps us not at all, since Townies have no reason to lie. If faith is Scum, it just verifies he told the truth. But telling the truth is not a Town-tell. So Hal's knowledge is marginally useful only if faith is Scum, and useless if he is Town.

I'm going to keep with my hypothesis that the secret is the source of Dossiers and not special knowledge bestowed to a single player.

[Hawkeyeop]

I kind of agree with Hal: his special knowledge isn't powerful. It's well nigh useless. Which makes me more suspicious of the claimed knowledge.



Well, in the abstract, it either is really powerful or completely useless, and I don't think either is a good game mechanic. If the dossier Hal received differs from the one revealed, then it guarantees a scum. Without power roles, there is just no reason for town members to lie. In this case the town would get an early scum outings by doing nothing. That I consider to be too powerful.

If on the other hand, the dossier matches up, then as you pointed out, it is near useless. Either way, there is nothing the player with the extra dossier can do, but wait to see if they got lucky. There is no skill or ability able to be used to maximize the usefulness of the secret. I still think it makes much more sense as a skum ability then a town one.

[Mtgman]

After some re-planning amongst the project team, we've decided to revise the current project's timeline. Given traditional resource constraints around the holidays, we felt this was necessary. The following Gantt chart represents the milestones for the upcoming couple of Day/Night cycles and their durations. Team assignments have already been made, so no milestones are assigned to individuals. Please be aware this is a living document and subject to change, however the management team has signed off on this schedule already, so it shouldn't change much, if any. I apologize for any disruption in your schedules and thank you in advance for your cooperation and positive attitude.

Fri |Sat |Sun |Mon |Tue |Wed |Thu |Fri |Sat |Sun |Mon |Tue |Wed |Thu |
12/21|12/22|12/23|12/24|12/25 |12/26|12/27|12/28|12/29|12/30|12/31|01/01 |01/02|01/03|
| | | |X-mas | | | | | | |New Year| | |
3:30| | | |Company | | | | | | |Company | | |
CST | | | |Holiday | | | | | | |Holiday | | |
End | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Day | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
One | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
****Night 2* | | | | | | | | | | | |
| Ends 3:30 | | | | | | | | | | | |
| CDT 12/23 | | | | | | | | | | | |
****Night 2* | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | ******************** DAY 2 ************************ | | | |
| | | Day 2 gets 24 hour extension, runs thru 12/31 | | | |
| | | Ends at 3:30 PM CDT on 12/31 | | | |
| | ******************** DAY 2 ************************ | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | ******* NIGHT 3 ***** |
| | | | | | | | | | | Night 3 gets a |
| | | | | | | | | | | 24 hour extension |
| | | | | | | | | | | Ends at 3:30 PM |
| | | | | | | | | | | CDT on 01/03 |
| | | | | | | | | | ******* NIGHT 3 ***** |

Enjoy,
Steven

[Hal Briston]

Hal, Do you have reason to believe that your extra "knowledge" is the entire secret?The only evidence I have to that end would be the line in my role PM which read "(psst, you are the secret role)". From that, I assumed I was the 7% -- if someone else has something to share, speak up and I'll be happy to find that I'm the 3.5%. (Actually, if someone else does have something comparable, you'd probably best keep hush for now. Secret roles aren't looked at favorably 'round these parts...)

[Hawkeyeop]

The only evidence I have to that end would be the line in my role PM which read "(psst, you are the secret role)". From that, I assumed I was the 7% -- if someone else has something to share, speak up and I'll be happy to find that I'm the 3.5%. (Actually, if someone else does have something comparable, you'd probably best keep hush for now. Secret roles aren't looked at favorably 'round these parts...)


Okay my suspicions are sufficiently quelled for now. Thanks ;)

unvote Hal Briston

Vote Mhaye

His revealed dossiers are all copies of others except one that was unique. It looks like a profile of a scum to me.

[Kat]

I'm totally clueless at this point. Someone say something suspicious. ;)

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Vote Mhaye

His revealed dossiers are all copies of others except one that was unique. It looks like a profile of a scum to me.

Mine works out like that too. Am I next?

[Hawkeyeop]

Mine works out like that too. Am I next?

Sigh. I knew I didn’t explain that well.

First off I don’t think this a great way of finding scum. There isn’t a good way of finding scum the first couple days. I just think it is a bit better method then the normal day 1 lynches, so I’m going to go with it.

So let me try explaining this better. I broke all private dossiers into three categories unique, first reveal of a trait, and copy of a trait..

Assumption 1: The scum do not have secret information.

Assumption 2: The scum will lie about their dossiers.

Given these, the scum would have a couple of options in making up dossiers. They could either make up new dossiers that no one had before or copy other individuals dossiers. However, unless they got really lucky, they would not be the first to come up with any trait that was later copied.

It is for this reason that I find players that revealed a trait that hadn’t been seen before, and was later copied to be the least suspicious at this point. Cookies you had one of these, thus I don’t consider you a prime suspect. The players who revealed toward the end, myself included, generally had no firsts for obvious reasons. Mhaye, on the other hand, revealed fairly early, yet had no traits that were firsts.

Again it isn’t a great method, but it is the best I got at the moment. When there is more information to go on, I’ll be happy to look at voting patterns and player inconsistencies.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Don't ask me how, but I'd missed it on Hockey's chart (thought I clearly see it now) that I had at least one that I divulged first and was then repeated by someone. :smack:

And somehow I was reading Hawkeyeop's shorthand for me as if my 1F and 1U were for the same trait. :confused:

I thought I was in the exact same position as Mhaye, but I'm not. :cool:

If he is indeed unique in that regard, I think it is worth noting, and possibly even voting. :)

[faithfool]

Just now found out I'm leaving for out of town tonight. Apparently I'll be gone until after Christmas, staying at the home of internet-less folks. They actually do have a computer, but it's pretty much only to play solitaire on. Since I've made my vote, I guess that'll be all until I return on the 26th. Happy Holidays!

[HazelNutCoffee]

So the Day is ending tomorrow afternoon?

I'm almost starting to regret getting behind the revealing dossiers on the first Day thing. At this point I agree with others that it's really too early in the game to vote based on "patterns" we think we see in the dossiers. Particularly since some of them are bound to be at least partially untrue. On the other hand, we might as well start somewhere.

I'm inclined to give Hal the benefit of the doubt for now. It fits in with the unknown 7%, although I'm also aware of the possibility that scum could be taking advantage of this unknown 7% with false information. If Hal is scum, I dunno what that says about faithfool. I suppose it could go either way. Like it usually can. (Although come to think of it, telling the truth about one's dossier doesn't necessarily equal town, I suppose - although lying about it certainly smacks of scum.)

Good God, it's 3am. I'll vote before the Day is out, but now I need some sleep.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So the Day is ending tomorrow afternoon?


No, it's ending -this- afternoon. We definitely are missing votes from an awful lot of people. Vote for someone, or no-Lynch, but it ain't helpful to the Town to not leave a record. Someone doesn't wake up tomorrow, remember that.

[Kat]

I don't think a No-Lynch would be helpful, but there's not really much suspicion to go on. I have reread the thread: there's a couple of people who were against revealing dossiers but (1) that isn't inherently scummy IMO and (2) they laid out decent reasoning for it. There were quite a few people against extending the day, but see (1) and (2) above.

I found two little things: OAOW had an early post advocating No-Lynch and MHaye's delayed reveal of the dossier. Okay, and I'll admit that the Hal/faithfool thing is definitely weird, but I'm used to Bastard Mods by now. ;)

I'm going to take a shower and think a bit, and then be back to vote.

[brewha]

I was all for the dossier reveals when I thought that all the traits came from the truths/lie thread. I was never under the illusion that there would be obvious patterns, I was just hoping to catch someone in a lie.

The scum either had figured out where the traits came from, or copied other's very well.

[One And Only Wanderers]

I found two little things: OAOW had an early post advocating No-Lynch and MHaye's delayed reveal of the dossier. Okay, and I'll admit that the Hal/faithfool thing is definitely weird, but I'm used to Bastard Mods by now. ;)

I'm going to take a shower and think a bit, and then be back to vote.

I still advocate it IF we have no strong lead. I would rather kill no-one than lynch someone randomly. However, I found MHaye's dossier stall and questioning of Hal suspicious enough that I am happy with my vote.

[Kat]

I've waffled back and forth on this for the past 45 minutes, but: Vote MHaye

I'm off to get stuck with needles now, and then do some Christmas shopping. May or may not be back before's Day's end.

[sachertorte]

Okay my suspicions are sufficiently quelled for now. Thanks ;)

unvote Hal Briston

Vote Mhaye

His revealed dossiers are all copies of others except one that was unique. It looks like a profile of a scum to me.
(color removed)

I will again argue against lynching someone solely for characteristics of their private dossier profile*. I don't think it is beyond the realm of probability that someone would have a profile that had items matching previously revealed dossiers. I don't have time to do the math today, but I would expect someone's profile to behave that way. Perhaps we should subcontract the analysis to Blaster Master inc. They are always keen on numbers over there.

* others have stated behavioral reasons for voting MHaye, so if the dossier reason is merely in addition to other (IMO) more useful arguments, then my objection is lessened.

I will not support voting someone solely due to private dossier characteristics. Augmenting an argument with private dossier reasons is less objectionable; however, I will try and ignore the dossier aspects of the argument and judge based on the non-dossier reasons.

I'm having a very hard time not being a hypocrite here. I want to dismiss the dossier reasoning because I do not trust the private data. However, Hawkeyeop's point about MHaye's dossier combines very well with previous statements about MHaye's delayed dossier reveal. i.e., not only does MHaye's dossier have the characteristics Hawkeyeop pointed out, but his behavior supports the notion of someone taking his time to pull together a false dossier.

On the other hand Hawkeyeop asserts:Mhaye, on the other hand, revealed fairly early, yet had no traits that were firsts.
By HockeyMonkey's count, MHaye revealed 11th of 18. I would not label MHaye's position "fairly early."

My vote currently stands on zuma, which was an early vote, so I should take the time to reconsider. However, I don't yet see another candidate who is more deserving of my vote.

zuma:
Why did you organize a random approach to revealing dossiers?
Why did you ignore your own random ordering and reveal your dossier early?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Vote Mhaye

What few dimirits he's managed to earn are the only thing I can really see to go on.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Votecount?

[Hawkeyeop]

I will not support voting someone solely due to private dossier characteristics. Augmenting an argument with private dossier reasons is less objectionable; however, I will try and ignore the dossier aspects of the argument and judge based on the non-dossier reasons.


I'm not arguing on the dossier characteristics themselves. I agree that we need to consider them completely random until there is evidence otherwise. I think it is silly to accuse individuals based on the fact that they have no uniques and things of that ilk. My analysis is rather based how scum would go about lying about dossiers, which would hold true regardless to what each individual dossier said.


On the other hand Hawkeyeop asserts:
By HockeyMonkey's count, MHaye revealed 11th of 18. I would not label MHaye's position "fairly early."


Early is relative. 7 players had no firsts with 5 being the last 5 to present. The only two to do so earlier were Mhaye and Faithfool. I'm going to leave faithfool be at the moment, which leaves Mhaye. Still, I didn't double check Mhaye position before I posted and agree fairly early is too strong. Relatively early then?

[NAF1138]

Votecount?
Sure, why not.

7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies)

2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye)

1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller)
1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast)
1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey)


12 out of 18 votes cast

With 18 alive it is 10 to start the clock 12 to end the Day.

The Day ends today in only a few short hours. About 5 hours left to get a majority. With no majority there will be no lynch.

Go Team!

[ShadowFacts]

I've got to say that I'm not thrilled with this MHaye bandwagon. Not because I necessarily think he's innocent, but it feels...lazy to me, like people are just picking the low-hanging fruit (i.e. the person who already had the most votes) because the Day is ending soon. Seems to me the main argument against is that he delayed his dossier reveal. Given that I was one of the last 5 or 6 to reveal mine, I can't hold that against him too much. So what else is there? Can someone who is currently voting for MHaye please lay out the case as strongly and clearly as you can? I think that would be very beneficial.

Thanks!

[ShadowFacts]

7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies)

2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye)

1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller)
1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast)
1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey)


12 out of 18 votes cast


NAF, you missed my vote for brewha yesterday.

[NAF1138]

NAF, you missed my vote for brewha yesterday.


Noted.

7 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies)

2 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye)

1 - brewha - (ShadowFacts)
1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller)
1 - Hal Briston (Pleonast)
1 - One And Only Wanderers - (HockeyMonkey)


13 out of 18 votes cast

[Pleonast]

Huh, I thought there were more votes for Hal than just me. Anyway, we need to have a lynch, and the case against MHaye is about as strong as my case against Hal (i.e., weak). I'll
unvote Hal Briston and
vote MHaye.
MHayes's Dossier reveal was both delayed and unoriginal. While he might be an unlucky Townie, being a Scum who doesn't extemporize well is more likely.

In case I don't survive the Night, I still have suspicions about Hal Briston (for his implausible secret knowledge "confirming" faith) and faithfool (for his strange "slip" and self-voting behavior).

[sachertorte]

I believe Hal Briston and will continue to believe him unless someone else claims secret role. I am convinced that the 7% refers to a pro-town secret role.
- Secret Role because 1/14 is about 7%.
- pro-town because the fraction is 1/14 (one of 14 Townies) not 1/19 (one of 19 players).

brewha:
Please explain why you accused zuma of lying about his dossier, but did not accuse Hockey Monkey of the same offense.

zuma:
Please explain why you contradict yourself in designing a random approach to revealing dossiers, but violate your own plan for reveal order.

[Hockey Monkey]

Because it takes a majority to lynch, I'm not going to go against the flow. My only reason for doing this is because I think lynching is the best action for us to take and Mhaye is the only one that looks like might gain the majority.

Unvote OAOW

Vote Mhaye

[Freudian Slit]

Hey, I voted for MHaye too a while back. My vote was not counted! Hanging chads!

[brewha]

I
brewha:
Please explain why you accused zuma of lying about his dossier, but did not accuse Hockey Monkey of the same offense.



I found some of Hockey Monkey's traits on the other thread. I found none of Zuma's. As the day wore on, I found other people posting the same traits as Zuma and even found some of Zuma's traits on the other thread. But, since I'd already called him out, I wanted to wait and see what his response was. Instead, I got several people telling me that my theory was bunk and so I gave up before I even heard his response.

Before I recanted my FOS, I had made up my mind that Zuma's dossier wasn't going to prove he was scum. But, I was going to give him the chance to incriminate himself.

[Freudian Slit]

Counting my vote for MHaye and also Hockey Monkey's vote, he now has 9. So we only need...is it one more person(?)? How many people are now in the game?

[Hawkeyeop]

Counting my vote for MHaye and also Hockey Monkey's vote, he now has 9. So we only need...is it one more person(?)? How many people are now in the game?

Aren't we at 10? I think you are missing Pleo.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I've got to say that I'm not thrilled with this MHaye bandwagon. Not because I necessarily think he's innocent, but it feels...lazy to me, like people are just picking the low-hanging fruit (i.e. the person who already had the most votes) because the Day is ending soon. Seems to me the main argument against is that he delayed his dossier reveal. Given that I was one of the last 5 or 6 to reveal mine, I can't hold that against him too much. So what else is there? Can someone who is currently voting for MHaye please lay out the case as strongly and clearly as you can? I think that would be very beneficial.

Thanks!

I'll leave the strong and clear case for voting MHaye to another, but I will say that there's a difference between 'lazy' voting, and realizing that there's no option other than lynching MHaye and an inadvertant no-lynch. I don't have a perfect case for lynching MHaye, but I will say that he seems scummer than most. Because of that, I'd rather lynch him and see where that gets us rather than no-lynch, and give the scum yet another day to pick our numbers off without giving us a chance to respond.

I still think faithfool would be a better lynch today, but it ain't happening at this late hour.

[NAF1138]

Aren't we at 10? I think you are missing Pleo.


Yup, we are at 10 votes. Thanks for helping me find your vote FS. 2 more votes for MHaye will end the Day instantly. Otherwise we ride it out for the next 3 hours and 5 minutes. (technically we are in the 12 hours countdown, but the Day will end before the countdown would so I firgure, why confuse you, right? Right!)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Thank you for your valued service to the corporation, MHaye. Please leave your keys and badge on your desk, and security will escort you to the Employee Discharge Center.

[Hal Briston]

Huh...that's odd -- I could've sworn I had a vote on the table, but for the life of me I can't find it. Well, here's where I was going with it:

Vote zuma

I'm still befuddled by his "dio is town like me" quote -- was that ever adequately explained (I'm willing to concede that there is a chance that it was, and I missed it).

However, even though I'm putting this out there now, I would be willing to get on board with a switch to Mhaye if it became necessary at the end of the day.

[Hal Briston]

And now that I finally click "submit" on the post I wrote two hours ago (stupid work getting in the way...), I find that my vote is mostly moot...ah well..

[NAF1138]

With about 2 hours and 30 minutes left to go, here is an official vote count so all you stats keepers can keep up with your stats.


10 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies, Pleonast, HockeyMonkey, Freudian Slit)

3 - zuma - (sach, Mhaye Hal Briston)


1 - Diomedes - (Storyteller)
1 - brewha - (ShadowFacts)


15 of 18 votes cast

Day will end at 1:30 today Pacific time. (just under 2 1/2 hours from now)

[MHaye]

So let's get this straight.

Zuma sets an order of dossier revelation.

The person before me posts his dossier at 2am, a time when I am in fact asleep.

I spend the daytime hours prioritising real life, and deal with both placing a vote and posting my dossier within five hours of the close of the business day (so maybe 6 hours total, as I tended to turn my attention to games about 4pm).

Then Zuma claimed I made you wait, when I was following his timetable.

Something smells there. Perhaps Mr. Zuma has some explaining to do.

[NAF1138]

The workday ends in exactly one hour.

Hurry it along people.

[Freudian Slit]

So if ten people have voted, that's a majority and if no one changes anything, then MHaye will die?

[NAF1138]

So if ten people have voted, that's a majority and if no one changes anything, then MHaye will die?

Yup.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

So if ten people have voted, that's a majority and if no one changes anything, then MHaye will die?

Looks like it. If any of the current voters for MHaye back off, we'll have a no-lynch.

[NAF1138]

ok, guys. I am going to lunch, so I might be a tiny bit late with the end of Day post.

Remember, the Day ends at 1:30 pacific time regardless. If you have anything strategywise to discuss speak now or till Monday hold your peace.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Whew. We're still in the Day, right? For some reason I thought the day ended 4pm Central time. I think that was the last game. Anyway.

vote zuma

For being inconsistent in strategy, and for not explaining the "Dio is town like me" quote. I wish I had more and stronger reasons, but such is voting on the first Day.

:: crawls back under blankets ::

[Kat]

So let's get this straight.

Zuma sets an order of dossier revelation.

The person before me posts his dossier at 2am, a time when I am in fact asleep.

I spend the daytime hours prioritising real life, and deal with both placing a vote and posting my dossier within five hours of the close of the business day (so maybe 6 hours total, as I tended to turn my attention to games about 4pm).

Then Zuma claimed I made you wait, when I was following his timetable.

Something smells there. Perhaps Mr. Zuma has some explaining to do.

While it may be true that the person#1 (Rysto) posted while you were asleep, you posted twice between the time Rysto put up his dossier and you put up yours. The delay was caused by your need to ask Hal what he knew about your dossier. The timeline of the dossier reveals goes like this:

12-15-07 12’24 AM Central Time, Post 286
zuma announces MHaye as person #2 to reveal dossier

12-15-07 5:30 AM Central Time, Post 300
MHaye questions zuma’s random-order generation plan


12-17-07 8:28 AM Central Time, Post 338
zuma gives up on the random order and starts posting his dossier (rather incoherently from his phone)

12-17-07 9:03 AM Central Time, Post 343
MHaye posts that he's undecided about revealing and thinks he’s overlooking something, and will let everyone know in a few hours (about 7 PM GMT) what he’s decided.

(Note: According to timezoneconverter.com, 9:03 AM Central Time is 3:03 PM GMT, so he gave himself 4 hours here. He actually posted his dossier manifesto (see two notes down) at GMT 9:47 PM on 12/18, over 36 hours after he made this post)

12-17-07 8:05 PM Central Time, Post 395
Rysto (person #1 on the random-order list) posts his dossier

12-18-07 2:33 PM Central Time, Post 435
MHaye posts, chiding faithfool for self-voting and voting for zuma, also says he wants to take some time drafting his bit about dossier reveals.

12-18-07 3:47 PM Central Time, post 445
MHaye posts his opinion on dossier reveals, asks Hal a question.

12-18-07 5:02 PM Central Time, post 452
Hal answers MHaye’s question

12-18-07 5:45 PM Central Time, post 453
MHaye responds to Hal’s answer and posts his dossier

[sachertorte]

End of Day Post:

I'm at peace with the MHaye lynch. While I'm not currently voting for MHaye, I do not have strong objections to the decision.

Who I find suspicious and why -
zuma
The "dio is town" comment certainly started the suspicion, and I think that I would have been able to get past it had zuma answered questions directed at him promptly. My trouble is I asked zuma about the dio comment (12/17 10AM EST), and I had to ask a second time (12/18 9AM EST) to get a response. zuma posted at least 5 times between the first request and the second. I found his avoiding the issue suspicious and it earned my vote, which is where my vote stands. Along with my vote I asked zuma to explain the his thinking from designing a random approach to dossier reveals to ignoring his own reveal policy. That query also as gone unanswered. Therefore, I am suspicious and remain suspicious of zuma.

faithfool
She could just be inexperienced. But she could be inexperienced scum too. The most serious point of suspicion I have is her self vote. As scum, her self-labeled inexperience could be a liability as she could accidently out her teammates. Killing herself off prevents such a mistake. As Town, she would have nothing to worry about and has no need to self-vote. While neither side would benefit from a teammate's suicide, I can see more scum reasons for doing so than town.

brewha
I have lingering suspicions on brewha. He responded to my query, but I'll need to think about him some more.

[Freudian Slit]

faithfool
She could just be inexperienced. But she could be inexperienced scum too. The most serious point of suspicion I have is her self vote. As scum, her self-labeled inexperience could be a liability as she could accidently out her teammates. Killing herself off prevents such a mistake. As Town, she would have nothing to worry about and has no need to self-vote. While neither side would benefit from a teammate's suicide, I can see more scum reasons for doing so than town.
I keep coming back to this too. Inexperienced does not equal innocent in a game like this. I remember in the last game, where I was inexperienced (and often used that as an excuse), it turns out that I was the most dangerous role in the entire game. I hadn't thought of the suicidal thing--it was something I wouldn't have done last game but then I wasn't really on a team. Faithfool's strategy just really reminds me of mine last game. Unfair or not--I would've probably acted like that even if I were a freemason, it's just making me think.

[Freudian Slit]

NETA: At this point in the game I don't want to vote for her since we're so close to getting MHaye off. And it's only suspicion. I'm sticking with my vote.

[Kat]

we're so close to getting MHaye off

Is that true, [b]MHaye{/b]?

Should I post this? Should I post this? I'm posting this... :D

[Hockey Monkey]

Hey now, it's not Happy Hour yet! (or is it?)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Hey now, it's not Happy Hour yet! (or is it?)

Happy hour? I had a three martini lunch... I think I'm going to just hit the pretzel bowl for a bit.

[Freudian Slit]

Is that true, [b]MHaye{/b]?

Should I post this? Should I post this? I'm posting this... :D
Wow. I truly am living up to this new username. :)

[NAF1138]

As the sun began to set on your peaceful little mountain commune a concensus was reached. You had spent most of the day looking at each others dossiers, debating the nature of the information shared amongst you and generally putting off the inevitable. But you can wait no more. It was time for someone to die.

At first people discussed possibly killing faithfool, she hadn't been with the company long. Or maybe Hal Briston or that drunken loudmouth zuma? No, it would seem that MHaye was going to be tossed off the cliff. It was for the best. Some people trusted him, but he got 10 votes...what could you do.

"Time for a teambuilding activity!" someone shouted. "Everyone grab hold of MHaye and on the count of three lift him in the air! 1-2-3! Now on the count of 3 everyone walk him to the edge of the cliff and throw him to his death! 1-2-3."

MHaye, wide awake and screaming this whole time cursed you as he fell. But soon he was too far away to hear, and shortly after that, too far away to see. Which is good, because he probably made quite a mess.


MHaye - Associate

has been killed.

17 of you are now left.

Night 2 will end 48 hours from the end of the previous Day. So 1:30 Pacific time on Sunday December 23rd.

Go Team!

[NAF1138]

Before you can even properly begin to drink you are intereupted by another one of those damn visions. This one, predictably, is from MHaye.

"The Silent Pigs have led the loyal associates by their collective noses in this lynching. The only reason I can think of is that they dislike being called Silent Pigs.

"I charge all loyal associates to refer to Disgruntled Associates as Silent Pigs and only Silent Pigs, unto the end of the game.

Or I'll sic my mate Chuck on you from beyond the grave."


Short for a vision, but it cuts to the point. You look around to see what others think. Will the name "Silent Pigs" really catch on? Only time will tell. You resume your drinking.

[NAF1138]

1.storyteller0910
2.HazelNutCoffee
3.Freudian Slit
4.brewha
6.ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
7.sachertorte
8.Hawkeyeop
9.ShadowFacts
11. Pleonast
12. One And Only Wanderers
13. Rysto
14. Hal Briston
15. faithfool
16. zuma
17. Hockey Monkey
18. Kat
19. Diomedes

Past Players
10.Santo Rugger - Associate killed Night 1
5.MHaye - Associate tossed off the Mountain Day 1

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well, fuck me sideways. :(

Sorry, MHaye.

[ShadowFacts]

Well, maybe now that the shiny dossiers are out in the open, we can spend more time toMorrow analyzing posts.

Salud, MHaye!

[Hawkeyeop]

Well on the bright side, I'm sure he is disgruntled now. Goodnight silent pig.

[Freudian Slit]

Awww. Well, who wants egg nog? I don't have any crypt keeper type puns in this game, but come on...egg nog! Fruitcake!

[Kat]

MHaye's gonna haunt us all good. Anyone got the number for Ghostbusters? Better yet, anyone got some good rum?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Was is the rum always haunted?

Sorry, Mhaye.

[zuma]

godspeed and sorry mhaye. at least we have the dnssierp recorded.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Well on the bright side, I'm sure he is disgruntled now. Goodnight silent pig.

Was he ever really gruntled?

[Hockey Monkey]

Sorry Mhaye. :(

[dotchan]

Posting from the Peanut Gallery to keep this thread on Page 1.

Good luck you guys. Here's to hoping none of you go postal just playing this game. :D

[Freudian Slit]

Was is the rum always haunted?

Sorry, Mhaye.
Good news! we have rum!

Bad news. The rum is haunted.

The rum also comes with a choice of peanuts or pretzels.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Good news! we have rum!

Bad news. The rum is haunted.

The rum also comes with a choice of peanuts or pretzels.

The frogurt is also haunted.

[NAF1138]

Hey guys, the Day should start in about 2.5 hours. Unfortunatly it doesn't look like I am going to be home to start the Day. Rather then starting the Day early I am going to opt for starting it late. If Mtgman comes along and sees that the Day still needs to start before I make it back, he might start the Day.

Otherwise the Day won't start till this evening.

Sorry all.

[Freudian Slit]

Damn.

Well, at least we have frogurt.

[NAF1138]

ok, I am home. Dawn coming up.

[NAF1138]

The previous Day had been so stressfull that there was very little socializing going on that Night. After recieving the post death message from MHaye almost everyone wanted to just crawl into their beds and go to sleep. There was some talk about fireing up the frogurt machine that the monks had, rather surprisingly, installed in the kitchen area of the compound. But no one was really that interested in a frozen dessert.

Few people managed to sleep that night, and as dawn broke it seemed as if the whole group were already up wandering the grounds. Eventually everyone made their way to the main courtyard near the entance to find out if another body had been hung their in warning. But the carved archway was empty. With a communal sigh of releif the town began to get back to the buisness of sorting out just how to get out of this horrific situation safely.

Someone, suggested that maybe everyone would thing better if the group went down to the hot springs and took a dip. And so the group walked its way down the winding footpath to the natural pools, the mood seemed to lighten and the group began to chatter. People begin to talk about how beautiful the grounds are, and how truely majestic the vistas are and the subject of MHaye's horrific and unjustified murder and the hand of the "team" didn't come up once. Maybe things would be alright after all.

And then you see it. At the edge of the springs proped up on the diving rock. It looks like Cookies was sitting there working away on her laptop. But something was wrong. Were her legs supposed to be able to bend in that direction? And there seemed to be a piece of yellow legal paper attatched to her chest. A scream rang out as the truth slowly dawns on you. You run up the rocks to examine her body and find that she has been posed there, again clearly moved from the place where she was killed. The note on her chest reads "All work and no play makes Cookies a dull sheep". Clearly the silent pigs were...less than creative.

ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - Associate

has been murdered.

Another of your ranks has been killed, and not a single member of Disgruntled Associates LLP has been found. There are now 16 of you left. You have 7 days before Night 3 starts, but you all have Christmas off. So the Day will end exactly 8 days from the time of this post. Monday December 31st at 3: 20 Pacific time.

With 16 alive it will take 9 votes to start the countdown and just 10 votes to end the Day instantly.

Go Team!

[Freudian Slit]

Shit. Cookies is gone...and no one is around but me to mourn.

[ShadowFacts]

Shit. Cookies is gone...and no one is around but me to mourn.

Hey, we're back early - cool! (Except for Cookies :( )I didn't expect to be playing again until tomorrow (which is probably why it's quiet in here).

Anyway, here is the list of people who voted for MHaye:
10 - MHaye - (OAOW, zuma, brewha, Dio, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies, Pleonast, HockeyMonkey, Freudian Slit)

Sadly, I don't think we can really glean much information from that, except I am sure there are at least a couple of scum in there. Of course, there are also plenty of Associates in there, too, so we can't jump to any conclusions. But I think it will be useful to remember down the line.

And now that we've got the dossiers out in the open, hopefully we can waste less time on them and get more early voting. The late voting of Day One was harmful in two ways: first, there was not enough time for MHaye to defend himself and try to change anyone's mind. Second, the late time gave good cover, e.g. "well, MHaye already has 8 votes and we need to lynch somebody, so vote." Hard to argue with that, because then you'll get accused of wanting a no lynch. So let's try to get the votes in early and often!

With that in mind, vote brewha for reasons enumerated yesterDay.

[HazelNutCoffee]

RIP, Cookies. :: crosses self ::

I'll withhold further musings until the death scene is posted.

[Hal Briston]

The note on her chest reads "All work and no play makes Cookies a dull sheep". Let me just make it absolutely clear that I had nothing to do with that.

Sorry to see you go, Cookies. :(

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

[color=blue] vote: faithfool [/blue]

You know... because she's scum. And we should take advantage of new scum mistakes.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Doh!
vote: faithfool

[zuma]

zuma:
Why did you organize a random approach to revealing dossiers?
Why did you ignore your own random ordering and reveal your dossier early?

Sorry, sach, I couldn't reply at night.

I organized a random approach to revealing dossiers because it was part of my sinister plan

I ignored my random ordering because it was what was to be the culmination of my plan. You see, I am scum. Along with my scumbuddies Rysto and MHaye, I devised an overly-complicated and truly evil plot the likes of which we've never seen before!

It wasn't truly random, you see. Between us we were able to manufacture scores in NBA games. Oh you've caught us now, I might as well reveal all. Now, it was important that Rysto and Mhaye were the first two on the list. Once Rysto and Mhaye delayed their dossier revelations, I jumped in at just the right time and revealed mine. Diomedes was instrumental in this nefarious plot too.

In retrospect it is SO obvious why I revealed early after two days of non-reveals. Revealing my dossier when I did of course leads us scum to a certain victory. I'll leave you to explain it since you caught us.

I tried to hide my foul motives behind what would be seen as simple, direct, and obvious reasons for doing so.

338 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9279923&postcount=338)

393 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9282266&postcount=393)

Unfortunately, this vast conspiricy has been outed. What seems like simple logical arguments seemingly ignored by sach have now been exposed as the evil machinations that they are.

[zuma]

On a more serious note, ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies, it appears that if the scum send the same killer on multiple nights, it will be something the killed player will recognize:

Then if the scum send Scum 1 out to kill again on Night 2 the new victim will recognize the first trait(due to that whole "being in their head as they died" thing) and notice something new about the killer. So they would be able to put two factoids in their death scene

In your death scene, please make it clear whether or not you were killed by the same scum who offed Santo Rugger. I guess in your death scene, if it were the same killer, there should be something in there about driving into 7-11. If that's not there, we can assume they chose a new killer.

[zuma]

Also I too will withold my vote, and most of my analysis, until ComeToTheDarksideWeHaveCookies reveals her new knowledge. Plus it's XMAS.

[NAF1138]

Just FYI for those of you waiting on Cookies. She is going to have until Thursday at noon to get her sceen in because we weren't able to get her her info until today. (Unfortunatly the holidays have slowed us down too.) She has tomorrow as a pass (as do we all) so she gets 72 hours total from the time we sent the PM to get her scene in.

Just so you all know how long you will potentially be waiting.

[NAF1138]

This may be the last vote count you get until late in the day on Wednesday. I don't work between tomorrow and January 2nd, so I might be preoccupied.


1 - brewha (shadowFacts)
1 - faithfool (Dio)

2 out of 16 votes cast. With 16 alive it takes 9 to start the clock and just 10 to end the Day instantly.

Go Team!

[ShadowFacts]

Merry Christmas, everyone!

(even scum, although I bet you're getting some coal, suckas!)

[zuma]

Merry Christmas, everyone!

(even scum, although I bet you're getting some coal, suckas!)

Seconded. Thanks for giving me a year of mafia fun. And I promise not to give snarky replies to unfair accusations for at least a few days in the spirit of the season :)

[Freudian Slit]

Merry Christmas!

Our requisitioned stockings are in their places. And it looks like I got a sprocket! or is it a widget?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I suppose this makes me the Ghost of Christmas Present. I rattle my chains at you, Silent Swine!

I have received my info and will be composing and submitting my death scene in the morrow.

Happy Chrismahanukkwanzolstice, everyone.

[Pleonast]

I'll do a reread at some point, but for now my suspicions are still with Hal Briston and faithfool.

Hal for his strange claim of special knowledge about exactly one person. I think the source of the Dossiers is the secret rather than Hal's claim.

faith for his possible slip and his anti-Town self-voting behavior. Townies never have a reason to vote for themselves. Scum sometimes do.

Also, who didn't vote? Rysto and faithfool. I want to see explanations from both of them about why they failed to vote. We need everyone voting, it's one of our best sources of information. Which is an excellent reason for Scum to avoid voting.

And now that's three marks against faith. I like to give newbies the benefit of a doubt on Day One, but we're past that. Time to pay the piper:
vote faithfool

Looking forward to the info that Cookies managed to learn about her killer, but we need to start discussion before then.

[faithfool]

Just to catch up on a couple of issues....

First, sorry to see you go Cookies. :( With such an excellent name as that, I can just imagine how much fun you are to read fairy tales with and drink hot chocolate. Hope the after life is good to ya.

Second, I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday. Mine wasn't so great, but I did get to visit the cemetery to see my brother. I still miss him so.

Third, for all the questions.

I still don't like faithfool.

Eh, you ain't too friendly yourself.

Her initial statement, despite mtgman's ditch for her, still seems off for me. Secondary confirmation stinks to high heaven (who needs to take time to respond to a PM? Signing up for an offboard site, on the other hand...).

Well, for me it does take some time. I have lots of other mental crud going on that routinely draws my muddled attention. Now that's not y'all's problem, but it is the truth and, seeing how this was before the game started (which I now know doesn't matter), I thought I had a bit more time to take care of tying up loose ends. I've explained this ad nauseum and I suppose I'll no longer worry about those who disbelieve me from now own. < shrug >

And her whole "vote for me... I don't wanna play, 'cuz I might hurt my side.... oh, wait, I'll play with you guys" deal also raises my ire....

The former had to do with me feeling over my head right off the bat (is there an echo or have I said this before?) and understanding that with all the suspicion hanging over my head due to how I freakin' write, I simply assumed that it would be in the best interest of the Town to get rid of me as soon as possible because it was going to happen anyway. And I felt that if I were out of the game earlier, someone much more experienced would be of more help. For the latter, I had been advised to hang in there regardless and it seemed like only the right thing to do to try my best. Gosh, I had no idea that would raise anyone's ire.

faith for his possible slip and his anti-Town self-voting behavior. Townies never have a reason to vote for themselves. Scum sometimes do.

Sometimes *I* (obviously) vote for myself too, for the reasons expressed above. Again, as I had very little prior knowledge about Mafia, I didn't know that my doing so was some sort of admission to scumness.

Also, who didn't vote? Rysto and faithfool. I want to see explanations from both of them about why they failed to vote. We need everyone voting, it's one of our best sources of information. Which is an excellent reason for Scum to avoid voting.

Well considering that I actually, did vote (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9292544&postcount=556), is that explanation enough?


I think that sums everything thus far up nicely, except for this....


vote Diomedes


because I think s/he puts an awful lot of focus on me and I'm not sure to what end. Perhaps s/he is trying to draw attention away from themselves.

[Rysto]

Also, who didn't vote? Rysto and faithfool. I want to see explanations from both of them about why they failed to vote. We need everyone voting, it's one of our best sources of information. Which is an excellent reason for Scum to avoid voting.
I didn't vote because I had my two worst exams on the 17th and 19th, travelled on the 20th and was rushing around doing Christmas shopping on the 21st. By the time I had caught up, it was about an hour before the deadline, MHaye was going to hang no matter what I said or did, I had no clue who I felt suspicious of and then I ended up getting drafted to help clean up the house.

I did warn you all that I was going to be busy for most of Day One. I'm sorry that I was busy on the 20th and 21st when I expected to be mostly free(I did not count on having to do my Christmas shopping here but that big snowstorm the weekend before scuppered my original plans). It won't happen again.

[Pleonast]

Well considering that I actually, did vote (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9292544&postcount=556), is that explanation enough?Yes, that is good enough. FOS on the moderators for missing votes. But, faith, in the future, it's better to point out of your vote is missing from the vote counts (and you were missing from the last two).

That vote-count error substantially reduces my suspicion of faithfool. However, he is still at the top of my suspicion list, so I won't withdraw my vote, yet.

On preview: ok, that's reasonable, Rysto.

Darn it, now I really need to reread everything since my current suspicions are evaporating...

[faithfool]

Yes, that is good enough. FOS on the moderators for missing votes. But, faith, in the future, it's better to point out of your vote is missing from the vote counts (and you were missing from the last two).

That vote-count error substantially reduces my suspicion of faithfool. However, he is still at the top of my suspicion list, so I won't withdraw my vote, yet....

Ya know, for as much discussion as there is about me, no one must be paying the least bit of attention (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9294601&postcount=577) to my posts. So, for the Cliff Notes version: I couldn't have known about my vote being missing and commenting on it until today, because I was out of town (like I mentioned) and wouldn't return until the 26th. That was why I went ahead and cast my vote. Shortly upon arrival home, I came straight here to catch up and reply to whatever I'd missed. Does anyone now understand just how frustrating this could be for a newbie? I hope those that've gone before me have had a easier time of it.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Eh, you ain't too friendly yourself.
No, I'm a right bastard. It's all part of my charm. But I don't go around killing people at night, now do I?


Well, for me it does take some time. I have lots of other mental crud going on that routinely draws my muddled attention. Now that's not y'all's problem, but it is the truth and, seeing how this was before the game started (which I now know doesn't matter), I thought I had a bit more time to take care of tying up loose ends. I've explained this ad nauseum and I suppose I'll no longer worry about those who disbelieve me from now own. < shrug >
That's not much of a response to what I still feel is highly questionable. You screwed up, you'll learn from it in the nextgame, but in this game, you sent out a flare saying "scum here"!


The former had to do with me feeling over my head right off the bat (is there an echo or have I said this before?) and understanding that with all the suspicion hanging over my head due to how I freakin' write, I simply assumed that it would be in the best interest of the Town to get rid of me as soon as possible because it was going to happen anyway. And I felt that if I were out of the game earlier, someone much more experienced would be of more help. For the latter, I had been advised to hang in there regardless and it seemed like only the right thing to do to try my best. Gosh, I had no idea that would raise anyone's ire.


There's no ire, here... but I can't see how you sticking around possibly could hurt the Town, if you were Town. A new and concerned scum, however, might be afraid she's going to give away {more) information that she shouldn't.



vote: Diomedes
Oh, my God! Diomedes sucks!
If I was trying to draw attention away from myself, I'd do so by laying low. Weak effort, and bad form.

Oh, by the way, I'm a man.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, the wobbly vote counts made things a bit tough...though it is hard wading through all these posts, I'm aware. Let's all try to keep track of whom we vote for and make sure that the game mods have counted our votes, just to make sure this time round.

[Hockey Monkey]

Hi all! Hope everyone had a fantastic holiday!

My earlier suspicions of OAOW and brewha for having no unique dossier characteristics are still with me. Some of you guys think that the dossiers have no bearing on the game, and granted, we can play a straight vanilla on vanilla game totally ignoring the dossiers. I, for one, think the dossiers were given to us for a reason and that they are part of the game. I am choosing to work the dossier angle in the early Day 1 - Day 3 or so stages of the game. After that I will have a better feeling on each person to do better post analysis. My gut is telling me that the unique trait is, if not important, then at least relevant..

My first vote of the Day is going to:

brewha

[faithfool]

No, I'm a right bastard. It's all part of my charm. But I don't go around killing people at night, now do I?

If you say so. And how do we know what you do at night? You could just as easily be scum as anyone else. That is, at least if I'm understanding the game at all. :)

That's not much of a response to what I still feel is highly questionable. You screwed up, you'll learn from it in the nextgame, but in this game, you sent out a flare saying "scum here"!

Well then, let's get out the pitchforks! I honestly don't care if you think that's not much of a response, nor does it any longer bother me that you think it's sent out a collossal universal sign that identifies me as scum either. Opinions, no matter how misguided, and all that. Oh, and I'm pretty sure that my inaugural game will also be my finale.

There's no ire, here... but I can't see how you sticking around possibly could hurt the Town, if you were Town. A new and concerned scum, however, might be afraid she's going to give away {more) information that she shouldn't.

Well, I can't understand how you can't understand but then that puts us right back to where we were. I do believe that I've adequately explained myself to the point that others have judged differently than you, so I feel now that I will no longer contribute to this ludicrous hijack and leave you to your own devices. Enjoy.

Oh, my God! Diomedes sucks!

I have no idea whether you engage in that or not. However, I stand by my vote because I really do think you're doing this on purpose. If so, then that speaks volumes all by itself. Therefore, if no one else sees it that way either, than I suppose I'll amuse myself over here counting flowers on the wall.

If I was trying to draw attention away from myself, I'd do so by laying low.

Is this the part where I point out that scum would probably say this exact thing? No, I think I'll pass for I have no need to play Captain Obvious.

Weak effort, and bad form.

< more shrugging > If you say so, but then again I won't be too concerned with that particular sentiment coming from your direction. You are the one who has latched on to me and I've (unfortunately) wasted all my time here defending against various allegations. You want to continue to spear head that up? Be my guest. Enjoy. Again, I feel you're hiding something, no matter what it is. If that means my reasoning is "weak" or my presentation "bad form" then so be it. As I'm continually learning from you, it's not about how you play but rather how you say you do.

Oh, by the way, I'm a man.

Good for you.


Cheers.

[NAF1138]

Now that everyone is back from their day off, you are (predictably by now) hit with another vision. This one from the recently departed Cookies:

As I strode through the pre-dawn gloom, a thin hint of light was building in the east. I couldn't sleep. It wasn't fear so much as restlessness. I was impatient for something, yet I was oddly at piece. Yesterday had turned into a watershed moment for me.

During one of the group exercises I had exposed myself in full for the first time in my life. I'd taken a leap of faith and laid everything out on the table, and I was not alone in doing so. The gritty honesty expressed by so many was humbling while undeniably inspiring at the same time. It restored my lost faith in humanity.

I gazed down at the thick fog that filled the lower valleys, smiling at the little girl in me who had once looked upon similar scenes and imagined the mountain tops as islands in the Sea of Fog, where magical otters swim and frolic in the mists.

I knew that I had passed through a threshold, and that my life would never be the same. A breeze swirled the mists around me and brought a chill to the back of my neck. A strangely familair voice tickled my ears as I turned blindly in the dull and muted silence that now fell around me.

"You remind me a lot of this chick I met at the mall the other day.", the voice said, first from my left, and then from my right, as I turned in circles searching for the source of the words. "She turned out to be something of a free spirit. Maybe if you had been a bit more adventurous, I wouldn't have to free your spirit..."

I saw sudden burst of motion a few feet in front of me, and the wind was knocked out of my lungs as something hard and heavy hit my chest, sending my back crashing through the a railing and over the ledge that I didn't even realize I was near.

But I was not afraid. As the wind howled through my ears and tugged at my clothes and hair, I marveled at how calm I was. The voice was right. If only I could go back and start my life again, knowing them what I know now, in this perfect day of honesty. One of the last conscious thoughts I had was a realization. The voice...it had been the same voice I had heard while gripped in the surreal experience of the after-death vision of my former cow-orker, Santo. The voice that had bitched about 7/11. My ultimate thought was left unfinished as I was swallowed by the quiet blackness.

Will I fall forever?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

*A ghostly voice apologizes for not passing that through a proof-read or three...*

[storyteller0910]

Y'all, I'm really sorry for my nonexistent participation over the last seven days or so. I'm in Disney World right now, on family vacation until Sunday. I've barely had time to glance through this thread - my daughter is disinterested in napping or resting when there's so many castles and princesses about - so I can't contribute usefully until I return. Huge apologies, but I will resume excessive blather immediately upon my rejoining of civilization.

[sachertorte]

I organized a random approach to revealing dossiers because it was part of my sinister plan

snipped for bs.

Oh yay, sarcasm. You know, you could just explain yourself and not be a dick about it. Everyone else answers questions directed at them politely and with the understanding that this kind of questioning is part of the game.

I'm not too pleased with your pat answers either. I voted for zuma Yesterday, and I will likely vote for zuma again Today. I'll hold off to make sure my vote is for reason and not because I'm annoyed.

[sachertorte]

Can anyone decipher which attribute Cookies is trying to convey to us? I'm stumped.
Part of me wants to ignore it entirely since I'm of the position that the dossiers are a red herring, but the other part of me is 'goal-oriented' and needs to figure out what Cookies is trying to tell us.

Initial thoughts:
1) The killer lied and the characteristic given to Cookies doesn't match anything revealed publicly. (e.g. the item is something like "I have swam with otters.")
2) Cookies coded the message harder than Santo Rugger for some reason.
- Cookies uses the word "piece" instead of "peace"
- "Sea of Fog" is capitalized for some reason.
- "free spirit" = exorcism?

If we conclude (1), I might have to apologize to Hockey Monkey.

[Hockey Monkey]

I once had sex in front of the Washington Monument = "You remind me a lot of this chick I met at the mall the other day.", the voice said, first from my left, and then from my right, as I turned in circles searching for the source of the words. "She turned out to be something of a free spirit.


OAOW is the only person with both traits that have been revealed to be a killers.

Unvote brewha

I want to see it others concur about the meaning of Cookies' revelation before placing my vote.

[NAF1138]

I was going to post a vote count...but there really aren't that many votes.

Oh what the heck, here is a vote count anyway.

2 - faithfool (Dio, Pleo)

1 - brewha (ShadowFacts)
1 - Diomedes (Faithfool)


It takes 9 votes to make sure a lynch occurs. 10 votes will end the Day instantly.

You have until New Years Eve to reach some form of consensus.


Go Team!


P.S. Sorry about the missing vote from faithfool Day 1, it was on my spreadsheet so I am not sure why it didn't end up in the posted count.

[Hawkeyeop]

I once had sex in front of the Washington Monument = "You remind me a lot of this chick I met at the mall the other day.", the voice said, first from my left, and then from my right, as I turned in circles searching for the source of the words. "She turned out to be something of a free spirit.


OAOW is the only person with both traits that have been revealed to be a killers.

Unvote brewha

I want to see it others concur about the meaning of Cookies' revelation before placing my vote.


I cannot find any other revealed trait that is remotely plausable except for the one you listed. So unless anyone else has any ideas, it is either that trait or a trait that nobody chose to reveal. I'll take a look at the threads used to see if any statement there seems more likely. If not, I would strongly advocate a lynching of OAOW, more for the fact that it is OAOW public trait that was revealed then anything else. We know that OAOW isn't lying about that trait. In fact, in most circumstances, I'd be in favor of lynching anyones who's public trait is revealed.

[sachertorte]

Huh? Can someone explain this?

[Hal Briston]

Huh? Can someone explain this?The area surrounding the Washington Monument is known as "The Mall". If we take that line to be the clue Cookies dropped (and I certainly do) then that would leave OAOW as the only person to have both traits revealed in the two death scenes.

That would mean One And Only Wanderers is the killer, and by definition, scum.

Vote One And Only Wanderers

[Hockey Monkey]

Huh? Can someone explain this?

What do you need explained?

The Washington Monument is on the Washington Mall. Killer met a chick at the mall that was a free spirit, or as I interpret, would have sex in a public place. I didn't find any other statements that would remotely match. I imagine that the reveal of traits in the death scenes are going to be a bit more cryptic than blatant, and will require a bit of thought to solve.

[Hawkeyeop]

Vote One And Only Wanderers

[sachertorte]

Okay. I think I get where you are going. I had taken "mall" to be "shopping center":
mall = washington monument?
free spirit = sex?

I guess that makes sense, but it is much more indirect than what Santo Rugger gave us. Santo Rugger's death post was very clear (given the dossiers). Why would Cookies be so much less so?

The second dossier item (if correct) is quite damning though. The probability of a non-OAOW killer sharing two items with OAOW and having those two items show up in the death posts is vanishingly small.

I can support a OAOW lynch. But I'd feel better if we understood why Cookies's death post is so very different from Santo Rugger's. Do the rest of you feel the post is obvious? Am I simply slow today?

On preview: So I didn't get it. You don't have to be rude about it.

[sachertorte]

Sorry. I was overly short in my previous post.

[sachertorte]

On a re-read I was reading 'it's so obvious how could be so stupid as to not see what is clearly there,' that probably wasn't intoned.

[Hockey Monkey]

On a re-read I was reading 'it's so obvious how could be so stupid as to not see what is clearly there,' that probably wasn't intoned.

No no, that isn't what I meant at all. I didn't know if you needed my post explained or Hawkeyeop's. Sorry to appear snarky. Not my intent. I too first thought it was a shopping mall, but then when I was reading through the dossier's a lightbulb went on.

[Hawkeyeop]

Okay. I think I get where you are going. I had taken "mall" to be "shopping center":
mall = washington monument?
free spirit = sex?

I guess that makes sense, but it is much more indirect than what Santo Rugger gave us. Santo Rugger's death post was very clear (given the dossiers). Why would Cookies be so much less so?

The second dossier item (if correct) is quite damning though. The probability of a non-OAOW killer sharing two items with OAOW and having those two items show up in the death posts is vanishingly small.

I can support a OAOW lynch. But I'd feel better if we understood why Cookies's death post is so very different from Santo Rugger's. Do the rest of you feel the post is obvious? Am I simply slow today?

On preview: So I didn't get it. You don't have to be rude about it.

Cookies and Santo both got information from the moderator which I assume they both used word for word. I think the fact that Cookies was more vague was nothing more then the moderators finding a nice indirect clue for this dossier item. I looked through the complete list of dossier items and the two truths and a lie thread (I don't think the other thread used would fit this item) and found nothing else that fit even a little bit. So while the evidence isn't 100% that this clue fits, I do not see any alternative possibilities.

[Hawkeyeop]

Cookies and Santo both got information from the moderator which I assume they both used word for word. I think the fact that Cookies was more vague was nothing more then the moderators finding a nice indirect clue for this dossier item. I looked through the complete list of dossier items and the two truths and a lie thread (I don't think the other thread used would fit this item) and found nothing else that fit even a little bit. So while the evidence isn't 100% that this clue fits, I do not see any alternative possibilities.

[Hawkeyeop]

Sorry bout the double post (and now triple post..)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Will be back after caffeine and breakfast. Sorry for lack of participation - I've been out and about for most of the past three days.

[sachertorte]

Hockey Monkey, it was my mistake.

I like Hawkeyeop's explanation of why Cookies might have created a less direct death post than for Santo Rugger. I can see mtgman and NAF deciding to make them more obscure, or at least less direct.

Also also, I like the idea of looking through the source threads to see if anything else there fits the death post. That I think is the best form of verification we can expect for ruling out the item being some other unknown characteristic.

I'm going to vote for OAOW, but first I'd like to re-iterate that while I'm generally against dossier-based lynches, I'm much more trusting of public dossier information than private dossier information. Since the death post matches OAOW's public item, I'm willing to
vote One and Only Wanderers.

[One And Only Wanderers]

I come back from Christmas for this? Not guilty.

[faithfool]

I come back from Christmas for this? Not guilty.

I feel your pain. :( A belated Merry Christmas to you.

[ShadowFacts]

If nothing else, I think this will be a good test case. According to the dossier info that has been posted, the killer could not be anyone but OAOW. If we lynch him and he's scum, that's a point in favor of relying on the dossiers. If he's innocent, then we know people lied about their dossiers and that's a point in favor of not relying on them.

I'm less inclined to rely on them in general, because I do think that scum lied and they will cause innocent townies to be lynched with no possible defense. I mean, think about it: at this point, what can OAOW say to convince you not to vote for him? Nothing, because he didn't say or do anything to garner votes. He just has traits in his dossier, so there's nothing to defend.

All that said, this is a good test and will give us some useful information on which to base future actions. So:

unvote brewha
vote OAOW

(Another reason I don't like this is that's it's not really fun, which is why I play these games. What are we going to do for the next 4 days? *yawn* But I suppose that is meta-gaming, so I won't let it affect my actions here)

[Freudian Slit]

I guess we have to vote for OAOW, huh? I agree with Shadow. I liked the psychological aspects, the thrill of the chase. This game feels like it's more like taking the LSAT than about psyching each other out.

[Pleonast]

I've been following along today, but my work situation has gone from underutilized to understaffed. No analysis from me then.

That said, the evidence against OAOW is the best lead we have. Either he's the killer or he's a Townie who's unlucky enough to have two overlaps with the lying killer. I'll take those odds.
unvote faithfool
vote One And Only Wanderers

[Freudian Slit]

Whoops. I forgot to actually vote in my last post.

NETA: [b]

[Freudian Slit]

And I forgot to post in THAT post, too.

NETA:Vote OAOW

[storyteller0910]

If nothing else, I think this will be a good test case. According to the dossier info that has been posted, the killer could not be anyone but OAOW. If we lynch him and he's scum, that's a point in favor of relying on the dossiers. If he's innocent, then we know people lied about their dossiers and that's a point in favor of not relying on them.


...well, or the scum selected one murderer for Santo and a different murderer for CooXies (sorry, everyone, but I'm missing a letter on my hotel computer), and each one had a trait overlapping with OaoW.

He may well be scum, but I don't see any advantage to lynching him early. A post history and analysis would be useful, but I don't have the ability to do one until I get home from vacation.

[Hockey Monkey]

Storyteller, by "early" do you mean early toDay before the allotted time, or as in this early in the game, let's not lynch him toDay? :dubious:

Updated spreadsheet (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pGFzeVMas_HcWdROWFdQNLA&gid=1)

The unique traits are in blue, and the killer traits are italicized.

Of what is revealed on the dossiers, Kat and I are the only people who share the same traits that have been given in the death scenes.

[Kat]

...well, or the scum selected one murderer for Santo and a different murderer for CooXies (sorry, everyone, but I'm missing a letter on my hotel computer), and each one had a trait overlapping with OaoW.

Well, except that Cookies' death scene indicated it was the same voice as from Santo's vision.

Vote OAOW

[Hockey Monkey]

Well, except that Cookies' death scene indicated it was the same voice as from Santo's vision.

Vote OAOW

Yep, good catch! I totally spaced about that part.

Vote OAOW.

[NAF1138]

8 - OneAndOnlyWanderers - (Hal Briston, Hawkeyop, sach, shadowfacts, Pleo, Freudian Slit, Kat, HockeyMonkey)

1 - Diomedes - (Faithfool)
1 - Faithfool - (Dio)

Only one more vote for OAOW and the 12 hour countdown will start. 2 more to end the Day instantly.

[Hawkeyeop]

...well, or the scum selected one murderer for Santo and a different murderer for CooXies (sorry, everyone, but I'm missing a letter on my hotel computer), and each one had a trait overlapping with OaoW.

He may well be scum, but I don't see any advantage to lynching him early. A post history and analysis would be useful, but I don't have the ability to do one until I get home from vacation.

How bout the fact that if we don't kill OAOW and he is scum then they can keep using for night kills. Thus we won't get any new dossier information. If they have to use someone else, then we will get info on a new person. Maybe even get lucky and get a public trait.

[faithfool]

I'm convinced by the evidence presented. So for now, I'll put my disquiet about Dio on hold and add my suspicion to OaOW. Sorry you. :( Therefore....

unvote Dio

vote OaOW


And to our illustrious moderators; it's no big thing that y'all missed my earlier vote. I'm sure it's just one of those things between 50 gazillion pages in a thread and an ever-growing spreadsheet.

[Mtgman]

And that makes nine on One And Only Wanderers. Countdown begins. 9:15 AM CST tomorrow he'll be executed if no one unvotes or puts an additional vote on him between now and then.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Rysto]

Is there any reason to put OAOW on the clock so quickly? I don't like speed lynches.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Well, except that Cookies' death scene indicated it was the same voice as from Santo's vision.

Hm. Interesting. I did not catch that upon first reading.

The evidence is pretty convincing, but I'm going to withhold my vote for the moment, since any extra votes will hasten his already hastened lynch, if I've understood the rules correctly. I feel like a lot of players, myself included, have not been able to check in very often this week, what with the holidays and all, and I'd like to have as much time as possible until the actual lynch, in case OAOW presents a defense or someone else has some other insight. (Not me, though, sorry; I have a suddenly scheduled interview tomorrow to prep for and a headache to boot.) I know abstaining from a vote seems sketchy at best, but I agree with Rysto about not liking speed lynches, so ... bite me. ;)

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Holy God.I checked this thread this morning, and there was nothing but faithfool and my feud.Now, OAOW is sitting on a clock?

According to my notes, he's the only killer, if he did off both the Rugger and Cookies. But faith's vote to put him on the clock,with only night owls and Europeans to view it before he hangs... keeps me off his bandwagon.

Yes, folks: this just in: Diomedes is refraining from hopping onto a lynch wagon. News at 11 (or 9:15, CST, as the case may be)

[NAF1138]

I will be taking my fiance to work when the Day ends (barring any unvotes of course), so Mtgman might end the Day if he is around that early. If he doesn't I will be back home (yay vacation) at about 8:30 am PST. Just a reminder that the Day ends at 9:15 Central /7:15 pacific even if no one is around to end the Day.

Also, one more vote will end the Day instantly; even though Mtgman and I will probably both be asleep if that happens. Treat it as Night if it does happen, please.

[zuma]

Phone pnst! oaow looks like a good lych. but i do not like faithfool taking it upon herself to end the day early with nn town concensus.

[zuma]

Big ass fos on faithfool for shutting us down early. no matter oaow alignment. most likely scum, but that hammer was way early.

[Hawkeyeop]

Big ass fos on faithfool for shutting us down early. no matter oaow alignment. most likely scum, but that hammer was way early.

Faithful didn't shut us down early. Any of the voters for the lynch could of unvoted to ensure more time used. I personally didn't because I didn't think we had too much to discuss until we determine whether OAOW is scum. Once we know that, we will have some insight into what a scum dossier looks like, and can use that knowledge to try to find more scum. So do you FOS all the voters?

I have my suspicions about faithfool but this isn't a valid one. I would guess she didn't even notice she was putting on the majority vote.

[faithfool]

I give up. For everyone to pay such close attention to my posts when it fits a preconceived notion (IE: I MUST BE SCUM!! Oh noes!), they sure do miss other stuff. Like my first vote or the notice that I wouldn't be back on the boards until the 26th. Not one person caught that. Further, the huge screw up that I did before the game started was duly noted. Fine. But how come no one sees where I said I have never done this before?? Jesus. So, to clear up the current suspicions.... no, I didn't realize that I was pushing us over the limit to immediately lynch. I thought I was acting in good faith (hah!) by not clinging to my previous assumption when there was so much evidence to the contrary.

Therefore, if anyone would like to instruct me on how to play correctly, I'm all ears. Otherwise, I doubt seriously if I'll try to defend myself again. Unless of course, someone comes in and tells me how completely crucial it is to the Town. Gotta wonder though about all the grumbling due to 'meta gaming.' I honestly had no idea that this was what I'd signed up for.

And a thanks Hawkeyeop for at least giving me the benefit of the doubt.

faithfool~
[more than a little perturbed]

[Pleonast]

unvote One And Only Wanderer

Speed lynches cut short our discussion time. We agree that Wanderer should be lynched. Let's talk about Tomorrow's lynch.

[zuma]

a rushed lynch even one that kills almost certaian scum, doesnt help us.

[NAF1138]

So, the clock stopped when Pleo unvoted.

You can all keep talking.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Big ass fos on faithfool for shutting us down early. no matter oaow alignment. most likely scum, but that hammer was way early.
I think you're fishing for something that's not there. I would think scum would be much more aware/cautious about being the deciding vote. I'm with Hawkeyeop on this one. There may be other reasons to be suspicious of faithfool, but this ain't it.

[Hockey Monkey]

Well, it looks like OAOW is the one we will lynch today. So if you guys want to talk about the next lynch, I have a theory. It's a dossier based theory which is how I am choosing to do my game analysis until the later stages.

My theory is that each of us are supposed to have 2 unique characteristics on our dossier. In the revealed dossiers some of us have 3, some 2, some 1, and some 0. It stands to reason that when the Disgruntled Pigs borrowed dossier items it messed up that flow. What I am going to focus on now are the 2 items that are shared by 4 people each. I don't think the mods set it up that way. That's my theory anyhow.

I've updated my spreadsheet to include a third sheet that goes something like this:

Player, Reveal Order, Trait, Shared With, Thread Origin

Santo Rugger, d1, I have performed an exorcism faithfool, hawkeyeop, brewha Two Truths and a Lie

faithfool 5 I have performed an exorcism. Santo Rugger, hawkeyeop, brewha Two Truths and a Lie

brewha 8 I have performed an exorcism. faithfool, hawkeyeop, santo rugger Two Truths and a Lie

Hawkeyeop (public) 17 I have performed an exorcism. santo rugger, faithfool, brewha Two Truths and a Lie

storyteller 9 I have performed on stage at Branson, MO. cookies, Freudian Slit, hal briston Two Truths and a Lie

cookies 10 I have performed on stage at Branson, MO. storyteller, Freudian Slit, hal briston Two Truths and a Lie

Freudian Slit, 15, I have performed on stage at Branson, MO. cookies, storyteller, hal briston two Truths and a Lie

Hal Briston, 18, I have performed on stage at Branson, MO. storyteller, cookies, freudian slit two Truths and a Lie

The red highlights represent a "clean trait". Santo Rugger's and Cookies are verified through death. Hawkeyeop's is a public trait. I think either faithfool or brewha (or both) borrowed the exorcism trait for their dossier. The Branson MO trait has 3 potential borrowers, but I've narrowed it down to two - Hal Briston and Freudian Slit because storyteller is one of the few with 3 unique traits in his dossier. I think the people with 3 unique ones share one of those with a Disgruntled that substituted. The people with 3 unique traits are in my mind less likely to be scum. The people with zero unique traits, I think are more likely to be scum. Brewha and OAOW. We are going to take care of OAOW today, and I think we need to lynch brewha tomorrow. He as zero unique traits and probably borrowed the exorcism trait.

Based only on dossier information, here is my scum list in order of likelyhood:
OAOW
brewha
Hal Briston
faithfool
Freudian Slit

[Hockey Monkey]

NETA: Oh, and feel free to poke holes. It's a theory after all and we need something to talk about.

[Rysto]

That's a huge assumption to make, Hockey Monkey. I don't see any evidence that we all have exactly two unique dossier items.


I've noticed something in the final words of both of the silent pigs' victims. In both cases, the narrative indicates that the killer reveals their trait themselves:

I heard footsteps behind me, and snapped out of my daydream. I stopped and turned, but didn’t see anything. I heard what appeared to be a radio conversation, but whoever was talking must have been hiding behind a mesquite tree. "You know what bugs me? Seven-Eleven doesn't have drive thru service." I don’t know why that bothered them so much. Drive through liquor stores have been banned in New Mexico since 1995 or so, anyway. And if they were fat enough to want to buy Twinkies at the drive through… well… I don’t know what to say.
"You remind me a lot of this chick I met at the mall the other day.", the voice said, first from my left, and then from my right, as I turned in circles searching for the source of the words. "She turned out to be something of a free spirit. Maybe if you had been a bit more adventurous, I wouldn't have to free your spirit..."
The way that the traits are being revealed is making me wonder whether the killer gets to decide which trait gets revealed. If that's the case, then OAOW is being set up. I think that this is the real 7% secret that our esteemed moderators warned us about. FOS Hockey Monkey for leading the charge against OAOW and Hal for claiming a secret ability that just doesn't fit with the set-up of this game.

[Hawkeyeop]

The way that the traits are being revealed is making me wonder whether the killer gets to decide which trait gets revealed. If that's the case, then OAOW is being set up. I think that this is the real 7% secret that our esteemed moderators warned us about. FOS Hockey Monkey for leading the charge against OAOW and Hal for claiming a secret ability that just doesn't fit with the set-up of this game.

From the rules "Each time an Associate is killed at Night, one of the characteristics of their killer will be randomly selected and revealed to their victim." So I think that kills that theory.

[Hal Briston]

From the rules "Each time an Associate is killed at Night, one of the characteristics of their killer will be randomly selected and revealed to their victim." So I think that kills that theory.That, and the fact that the "real 7% secret" is the one I already revealed (although I know you have no way of knowing that for sure -- it just gets frustrating to see theories being built about what the "real secret" could be).

[Hockey Monkey]

Rysto my dear, that's why it's a theory.

The two traits that have FOUR people sharing them are an anomaly that's worth investigation.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

That, and the fact that the "real 7% secret" is the one I already revealed (although I know you have no way of knowing that for sure -- it just gets frustrating to see theories being built about what the "real secret" could be).

Just out of curiosity, did you get another set of traits this morning? I can't see how giving ONE player ONE set of someone else's traits really affects anything in this game. It certainly feels like less than 7% of the game.

[Hal Briston]

Just out of curiosity, did you get another set of traits this morning? I can't see how giving ONE player ONE set of someone else's traits really affects anything in this game. It certainly feels like less than 7% of the game.Nope -- what I got in my Role PM is all I'm going to get.

My role name is the "Cubicle Eavesdropper", which made me wonder if I was going to get more info as the game went on -- perhaps I'd "overhear" someone drop one of their traits each day or some such. I PM'd the mods asking if this was the case and was told that nope, I had all the info I was getting. As it was put, "you're now as vanilla as anyone else. You just know some extra stuff".

[ShadowFacts]

...well, or the scum selected one murderer for Santo and a different murderer for CooXies (sorry, everyone, but I'm missing a letter on my hotel computer), and each one had a trait overlapping with OaoW.

He may well be scum, but I don't see any advantage to lynching him early. A post history and analysis would be useful, but I don't have the ability to do one until I get home from vacation.

I realize that Kat already commented on this point, and it may be old news, but I feel it is worth mentioning again since this was in response to one of my posts, and I've finally got some time to compose it.

According to mtgman:
"Each Night death will buy the town a NEW piece of info about one of the killers. So if Player 1 is killed by Scum 1 on Night 1 and they found out their killer was a Britney Spears fan, they can write that into their death scene(hit me baby, one more time). Then if the scum send Scum 1 out to kill again on Night 2 the new victim will recognize the first trait(due to that whole "being in their head as they died" thing) and notice something new about the killer. So they would be able to put two factoids in their death scene, the first being they are a Britney Spears fan, the second something new."

As I read it, the ONLY way we'll get two traits in one death scene is if it is a repeat killer. So, whether it turns out to be OAOW or not, it seems that scum sent the same killer out both times, which is an interesting nugget to digest.

I'll also note here how mtgman put in the little "hit me baby" example, which seems to be a clear example now to how the mods are encoding (for lack of a better word) clues to the killer's traits, like the whole Washington Mall thing.

[Hawkeyeop]

What I am going to focus on now are the 2 items that are shared by 4 people each.

More quoting the moderators. "there might be 3 or 4 closet New Kids on the Block fans." Since the example mentioned four people sharing the same trait, I don't think we should consider it impossible 4 people share the same trait. I would, however, still be willing to consider a Brewha lynch tomorrow if OAOW turns up as scum based on your original theory.

[Mtgman]

Just a reminder, Day 2 gets 24 hour extension, runs thru 12/31. Ends at 3:30 PM CDT on 12/31. At this point there's about 49 1/2 hours left.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Just a reminder, Day 2 gets 24 hour extension, runs thru 12/31. Ends at 3:30 PM CDT on 12/31. At this point there's about 49 1/2 hours left.

Enjoy,
Steven

Man are we a quiet lot today. I'm a little wary of this, because I know the scum didn't tell the truth on their dossiers.... but I would have thought they wouldn't have sent out the same killer two night in a row, either.

We've definitely had enough time to discuss this (even though we didn't), and I don't see any pressing issues that would suggest we shouldn't cut the day short. It doesn't look like my push against faith is working today (don't worry, I'll try it again toMorrow) So...
unvote: faithfool
start clock on: OAOW

[NAF1138]

Man are we a quiet lot today. I'm a little wary of this, because I know the scum didn't tell the truth on their dossiers.... but I would have thought they wouldn't have sent out the same killer two night in a row, either.

We've definitely had enough time to discuss this (even though we didn't), and I don't see any pressing issues that would suggest we shouldn't cut the day short. It doesn't look like my push against faith is working today (don't worry, I'll try it again toMorrow) So...
unvote: faithfool
start clock on: OAOW

So with this post, it is one more vote to end the Day instantly, otherwise it ends at 8:45 am Pacific time, 10:45 am central.

[Rysto]

[colour=blue]Vote Diomedes[/color]

He's playing too aggressively. His campaign against faithfool smacks of opportunism and he's started the clock on OAOW when we just agreed that it was counterproductive to do so, especially during the holidays.

[Rysto]

Damn you Americans and your inability to spell.

Vote Diomedes

[One And Only Wanderers]

vote OAOW

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Damn you Americans and your inability to spell.

Vote Diomedes


You're just pissy 'cuz the Caps wiped the ice with your Sens.

I'll take whatever opportunities I have to catch scum, man. Lacking and hard and fast means to catch them, our next best way of catching them is seeing where they make mistakes, and then lynching them. I'm sorry if you want to let faith off the hook because you feel bad that she messed up, but I'm playing to win.

I'd be up for extending things, but as it is, all we're doing is giving the scum a more convenient time to discuss things at night. I'd much rather have them lose out on a chance to discuss things because they're sleeping off their New Years' hangovers than let the town sit around and let the thread sink because we have nothing new to talk about.

[zuma]

Looks like we are in night. i like the fact that NAF is running this on pacific time. Even if hes in the bad half of CA.

[zuma]

Its OK thn. NAF is hella cool. hella hyphy too

[NAF1138]

Sorry this one is going to have to be kind of quick and dirty. We have a house guest today and I only have a minute to type this up before we all go to breakfast.

ToDays method of lynching is brought to you by the very hotsprings where you found Cookies.

You all have found incontrovertable proof that OAOW is a member of Disgruntled Associates LLP. How could you possibly be wrong. Everything in the dossiers points to him being a silent pig! So you pick him up and hold him under the water. A bubble comes up...then another...then there is a moment of doubt. Drowning provides the time necessary for self reflection. As a murder method this is one of the pluses. It isn't instant. You let OAOW go...for now. How sure are you about the dossers really?

And the OAOW lets out a gasp, screams "Death to the Sheep", and runs to the cliff and throws himself over.

This is a rather surpising turn of events. But hey at least one more Silent Pig is dead.

OneAndOnlyWanderers - Disgruntled Associate

is dead.


This Night gets bonus time and will end on January 2nd

[Kat]

Yay, us!

[Hockey Monkey]

Drinks are on me! Woooohooooooo!

[Freudian Slit]

Hooray! :) What kind of drinks you got?

[Hockey Monkey]

I have a fully stocked bar, an online drink library and some empty dance cages. Who's first?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Neener neener neener! Told ya so, Rysto!

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

This Night gets bonus time and will end on January 2nd


Hey! What's up with this? I thought the company holiday was Christmas!

[Mtgman]

There were two company holidays. Christmas Day and New Year's Day. This was communicated earlier through appropriate channels. Please do not disregard corporate communications, they contain vital information which needs to be disseminated to all employees.

Enjoy,
Steven

[brewha]

Geez, I missed the last couple of days. All the sudden everyone votes for OAOW? Nice work guys! I'll be more committed once the holidays are over.

[ShadowFacts]

Well, I may need to modify my position on the usefulness of the dossiers.

In any case, well done us! Gimme some spiked green tea!

[Kat]

I need a drink here! Something with rum in it. ;)

[zuma]

Mmmbop.

[dotchan]

Bumping the thread from the Peanut Gallery again. Yay town!

[zuma]

Well we didnt really do anything. we were given one by game mechanics. akthn getting everyone to rdveal on day 1 was an accomplishment.

[chrisk]

Hope this is an okay place to chime in.

I'm working on a story, (for JanNoWriMo (http://janno.ymakadomain.com/) ) involving a lot of characters spending a bunch of time on an alien spaceship together, and just now I had the thought of one of them starting up a werewolf game as a way of trying to fend off some boredom. I'm probably not to go into all of the game play in excruciating detail, but thought I'd ask a few questions in here for all you mafia-werewolf regulars.

Player count is probably going to be 9-10, excluding one character to be the moderator.
- How many of these should be wolves?
- What special roles, for a very simple game.
- Any suggestions for how the wolves should council without giving their identities away? They could use the ship's computer system I suppose, create something like a sealed forum.
ETA: Start on day or night?

- How long can the timing be stretched out in person? They're not going to be focusing on the game full time - there are alien languages to be learned, other distractions, mealtimes and so on. Would it be possible to get up to few-day turns like here on the board?

Probably also there's going to be a lot of ways that in-person interaction and previous relationships will affect the play - prior rivalries or distrusts emerging as pretexts, characters who know each other well enough to guess who's hiding something, and people who are in relationships and may try to charm secrets out of their partners...

anything else I'm missing?

[Pleonast]

On the second page? Inconceivable!

[Mtgman]

Dawn's coming up in a little bit. It's been an interesting long Night.

Enjoy,
Steven

[ShadowFacts]

Dawn's coming up in a little bit. It's been an interesting long Night.

Enjoy,
Steven

Damn. Slept through all the good stuff again.

[NAF1138]

Damn. Slept through all the good stuff again.
That's what you think.

As Day Three dawns, everything seems normal. You all head to the mess hall to find that a tempting meal of bacon and eggs has been laid out for you, along with what looks to be a corn beef hash. It tases a little funny, more like pork then beef. Then the group hears a scream. It sound like ShadowFacts. "Odd", you think to yourself, "I can't quite make out what he is saying." Then you notice that he isn't screaming, but is having his voice broadcast over the loudspeaker.

Another reason I don't like this is that's it's not really fun. What are we going to do for the next 4 days? *yawn*.

But it seems to be playing on a loop. Over and over again, growing louder and louder, untill it is almost ear splitting in it's intensity. Then suddenly, silence. And a mechanical distorted voice comes on the loudspeaker.


This sheep didn't want to play with us, so we decided to get rid of him. Hope everyone enjoyed their breakfast.

ShadowFacts - Associate

is dead. Hopefully thown off the cliff.

This Day is going to get a bit shorter. It will end on Friday at 9:30 am. Only 5 Days to figure things out this time.

Go Team!

Note: ShadowFacts was not mod killed, no matter what the Dawn scene makes it look like. I am just having a bit of fun with him because he said he was bored and then ended up getting killed, which I think fits in nicely with the flavor of the game.

[Hawkeyeop]

Wait, did we eat Shadowfacts?

[NAF1138]

Player List

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.storyteller0910
2.HazelNutCoffee
3.Freudian Slit
4.brewha
7.sachertorte
8.Hawkeyeop
11. Pleonast
13. Rysto
14. Hal Briston
15. faithfool
16. zuma
17. Hockey Monkey
18. Kat
19. Diomedes

Past Players
10.Santo Rugger - Associate killed Night 1
5.MHaye - Associate tossed off the Mountain Day 1
6.ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies - Associate Killed Night 2
9.ShadowFacts - Associate Killed (and possibly eaten by the town?) Night 3

12. One And Only Wanderers - Disgruntled Associate Lynched Day 2

14 of you left alive at this point. 8 to start the clock 10 to end the Day instantly.

Go Team!