You-Solve-It Mafia Game

[brewha]

Zuma, it's warmed up a bit here. It's a balmy 30ºF as we speak.

Last week we were having high temps below zero. So it's an improvement.

I may have to take you up on that trip to CA, I'm sick of this weather!

That is unless you're scum playing me - than you can bask in nice weather by yourself! That'll teach ya!

[brewha]

than, of course should be then.

This no edit rule is making one of my pet peeves stare me in the face. GRRR!

[Hawkeyeop]

Sach,

Where in Cambridge are you? I'm right past the border around Porter Square.

[faithfool]

I see I didn't get lynched, but unfortunately, I'm still internet-less. (Thank Og for my friend's brief use of their laptop again.) So, I'll be here for just a bit.... if anyone wants to let me know if I need to do anything special because of my screwed up inability to post. If that makes sense. Anyway, I don't know if they'll get the computer back up and running or not after all. Doesn't look too good, does it? But I at least wanted to let everyone know where I was and what all was going on. I'll check back but I'm not sure how soon I can get back online once I log off this time. Sorry.

[Pleonast]

NAF, Socal sucks. That is all.

ok, that's kind of silly, but the fact remains. Same goes for you, Pleo. It's one big, ugly, smoggy, shallow piss pot of myeh. I do like the pacific time we have going on in this game tho.Hey, we like air we can chew on. :D

Although with all the stuff falling out of the sky lately (I heard on TV it's called rain, but it I don't believe what I hear), the skies are clearing up. I can actually see mountains with snow on them. Eerie.

BTW, I've caught some sort of virus that wreaking havoc on my digestive track, so my posting volume will be low, assuming I survive 'til the Morn.

[NAF1138]

Well since faithfool is only here for a little bit, I say we start the Day.


Once again it is dawn on your peaceful little mountain retreat. It is a beautiful morning, the smell of hotdogs and unwashed hippies is in the air. For some reason it smells a bit like Berkley. Must be a shift in the winds.

It looks like everyone made it...oh wait where is zuma?

zuma buddy - you were a good assiciate - and you're dead.

S'what you get for making fun of SoCal. The gods do not look kindly on making fun of the land of milk and honey.

Can we get a collective

vote topdog?

Alright then, back to the game.


This Day will end no later then Tuesday February 12th at Noon pacific time.

With 7 alive it takes 4 to start the clock, and 5 to end the Day.


Go Team!

[brewha]

Well shit. I can't say I'm surprised though - Zuma was the only one I was sure was town.


Well, it's time to start looking at votes - it's what Zuma would've wanted. Hawkeyeop seemed very sure that HNC was not scum. I'll have to look into that.

[Hawkeyeop]

Well shit. I can't say I'm surprised though - Zuma was the only one I was sure was town.


Well, it's time to start looking at votes - it's what Zuma would've wanted. Hawkeyeop seemed very sure that HNC was not scum. I'll have to look into that.


True, though i do like to hope that if I knew I was wrong, I wouldn't have been quite as vocal. I don't think Pleo, Hockey, or Fatih are scum, but I likewise need to go back and see what Hazel being scum does to the rest of the analysis.

[faithfool]

Guess that's all for me now. The weather is getting bad and my friend needs to take the laptop back to work. Hopefully I'll be able to be back on before the next deadline. I'll cross my fingers and pray that I make more sense then too. Sorry again everyone.

[Rysto]

zuma's death is a surprise to me, although it really shouldn't have been. It's in the scum's best interest to kill off the most trusted townies and leave the suspicious ones behind to make our decision more confusing. Plus, zuma was instrumental in encouraging discussion. We can't let ourselves lurk in this game any longer, and I'm well aware that I'm among the worst at lurking. We need information and we need discussion. We need to throw our theories out there and criticize other's theories, and finally decide on which one is best. YesterDay I thought we did a pretty good job of that, and if we're to win this game that has to continue.

You all know who my suspects are: Hockey Monkey and Hawkeyeop. I have yet to see any other compelling theory that explains Hazel's voting patterns, particularly on Day 5. You could explain her not voting for brewha if brewha were scum, but in such a case it'd be even more critical that the voting shift to somebody else, so putting a first vote on Dio with mere hours to go before the deadline makes no sense at all.

But, as I've already said, her actions make perfect sense if Hockey Monkey and Hawkeyeop are the last two scum. She did not want to join her fellow scum in voting brewha and have 3 of the first 4 votes be scum. The scum had already been incautious in their voting patterns, and Hazel did not want to risk discovery with victory so close for the scum. She could not risk starting a bandwagon against her fellow scum either. And so she placed a throwaway vote on Dio and hoped that the brewha bandwagon would hold up. When I followed her and voted Dio, though, the scum saw their opportunity to railroad a townie at the last minute and blame the whole thing on me(which is not to say that I'm blameless for the lynch). And so Hockey Monkey went on the Hazel bandwagon(because the whole point was to avoid having the scum on the same bandwagon) and hoped against hope that would be the last vote for Hazel, while Hawk was the third vote on the bandwagon(and it must not be forgotten that he immediately disavowed any responsibility for the lynch -- we must remember that it should only be considered a "not Hazel" vote).

Now, I have to allow that my theory does not only implicate Hockey and Hawkeye. faithfool was another brewha voter, and there was also a single vote against faith when Hazel voted. I find it most likely that Hockey is scum, because Hazel, Hawkeyeop and faithfool all voted for Diomedes. I don't suspect faithfool as much because of the early bandwagons against her(but I need to look much closer at those bandwagons: if the scum weren't on the bandwagon, that would be a big red flag for me), and also because Hazel voting record in Days 1-4 are harder to explain if faith is scum, but it's much easier to explain if the other two are scum(again, it goes back to avoiding having all scum on the same bandwagon).

That's my case against Hockey Monkey and Hawkeyeop. I think that I still need to do a more thorough analysis of them, especially their actions in Days 1-4, but that can come after my 7pm midterm.

[brewha]

I went back through yesterday's voting with a fine tooth comb. I tried to stay as unbiased as possible. And, despite my best efforts I could find nothing scummy about the way two of my top suspects voted. AAMOF (as a matter of fact - I don't think anyone uses that, but they should), The way Pleonast and Rysto acted yesterday, I am 90% sure that they are both town.

Rysto, I think you and I can agree on one thing. Hawkeyeop is scum. He fought the HNC lynch tooth and nail all day yesterday. I am certain he is scum and would be very happy to chuck him off the cliff today and you seemed quite certain of his scumminess yesterday.

My #2 suspect is less certain. From yesterday's conversations, I see that Rysto is suspicious of Hockey. And while I am a bit as well, I think Sacherote is a better canidate.

Pleonast, what do you think? Hockey or Sach? Or someone else? What do you think of Hawkeye?

From most to least suspicious, I would say:

Hawkeyeop
Sacherote
Hockey Monkey
Faithfool
Pleonast
Rysto
Brewha


On preview

Rysto, I like your post. We do need to talk and get things out in the open today. I say we do our best to get Hawkeye lynched today. Will discuss Hockey vs. Sach tomorrow.

When you get a chance, do you mind having a look at Sach? I want to get your opinion.

[brewha]

Here's yesterday's voting progression. I promise nothing of accuracy since I seem to have missed where Rysto unvoted Hawkeyeop. But it is, for the most part, correct.

The * denotes the change from the previous tally.



Brewha (1) Hockey*

Brewha(2) Hockey, Hawkeyeop*

Brewha(2) Hockey, Hawkeyeop
Hazelnutcoffee(1) Pleonast*

Brewha(3) Hockey, Hawkeyeop,Sacherote*
Hazelnutcoffee(1) Pleonast

Brewha(4) Hockey, Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Brewha*
Hazelnutcoffee(1) Pleonast

Brewha(3) Hockey, Hawkeyeop,Sacherote
Hazelnutcoffee(1) Pleonast
Hawkeyeop(1) ,Brewha*

Brewha(4) Hockey, Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool*
Hazelnutcoffee(1) Pleonast

Brewha(4) Hockey, Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(2) Pleonast, Zuma*

Brewha(3) Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(2) Pleonast, Zuma
Hawkeyeop(1) Rysto*

Brewha(3) Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(2) Pleonast, Zuma
Hawkeyeop(1) Rysto
Rysto(1) HockeyMonkey*

Brewha(3) Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(3) Pleonast, Zuma,Brewha*
Hawkeyeop(1) Rysto
Rysto(1) HockeyMonkey

Brewha(3) Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(4) Pleonast, Zuma,Brewha, Rysto*
Rysto(1) HockeyMonkey

Brewha(3) Hawkeyeop,Sacherote,Faithfool
Hazelnutcoffee(5) Pleonast, Zuma,Brewha, Rysto, HockeyMonkey*





HockeyMonkey's biggest protown action was hammering HNC. If Hockey were indeed scum, she could have easily voted me and claimed it was what she's been doing all game.

By voting alone, I see Hawkeyeop and Sach and the mostly likely scum.

[brewha]

to finish my thought. If Hockey did vote me, we would have had a no lynch which would have been great for the scum.

We had a scum lynch which - unless the scum have something up their sleeves - is very devastating for the scum.

[Rysto]

Here's yesterday's voting progression. I promise nothing of accuracy since I seem to have missed where Rysto unvoted Hawkeyeop.
I did it in the same post I voted for Hazel.

HockeyMonkey's biggest protown action was hammering HNC. If Hockey were indeed scum, she could have easily voted me and claimed it was what she's been doing all game.
She could have, to be sure. But, if you are Town(and I definitely believe that you are), that would have looked extremely suspicious. Hammering Hazel gives her some wiggle room to argue for her towniness, while putting a vote on you would have required Hazel to be the hammer(as there was little chance that Pleonast, zuma, you, or I were going to drop the hammer on you).

Of course, this is just an example of the confirmation bias problem I was talking about earlier: Hockey being the hammer on Hazel was pro-town, no doubt about that. But it's easy to spin any pro-town action as being scummy if one's inclined to look at the facts in that way.

[brewha]

Yeah, I see why Hockey wouldn't have voted for me. It could outed whoever played the hammer as well as outing her if she were indeed scum.

But it seems to me that she would have been better off to just vote someone else or not vote at all - rather than guarantee a lynch of one of the last remaining scum.

She's second on your suspect list anyway - and 3rd on mine.

I'd like to hear what Pleo and faithfool think of Hawkeye.

I'd like to hear from Hockey and Sach as well. We definitely need some conversation.

[Pleonast]

Still in the sicker than better category, but I'll do a colored vote count post and then my analysis of it sometime soon.

[brewha]

True, though i do like to hope that if I knew I was wrong, I wouldn't have been quite as vocal. I don't think Pleo, Hockey, or Fatih are scum, but I likewise need to go back and see what Hazel being scum does to the rest of the analysis.

Very cleverly worded. It's not screaming - I'm town! It's suggesting that you didn't know Hazel's alignment which means that you couldn't possibly be scum. Subtle and clever - but I don't buy it.

So, by a simple elimination, you are saying that you don't trust Rysto, Sach, or me.

I'd like some reasoning behind this mistrust.


Rysto has done nothing scummy. My only reason to not trust him was that he seemed to be lurking early in the game. He wasn't posting much which is a good strategy for scum - it attracts less attention. But, lately he has been making solid arguements.

I'd like to point out that Zuma had been heavily defending me - which was quite the unpopular stance at the time. The two most likely scenarios were that both Zuma and I are scum and she was defending me to help our team or that both Zuma and I are town and she was defending me to help our team. We now know that Zuma is town, so the first scenario is impossible. I realize that this in no way exonerates me, but you should at least be able to consider that I am not scum.


But, then again, I'm quite certain that you know I'm not scum. You know because you know who all the scum are and have known since the beginning. And, your trust of Hockey/distrust of Sach inclines me to side with Rysto on the scumminess of Hockey.

Seriously guys, we need more participation than this. One post every 12hrs is not a conversation. And I really don't want to see a flurry of posts pop up at the end of the day. So, lets have a nice even paced conversation and see where everyone stands.

On preview.

I'm looking forward to it Pleo. I need another perspective from someone I trust.

[Pleonast]

Working off of zuma's last vote count...

Day 1
Mhaye (10): OAOW, zuma, brewha, freudian slit, Diomedes, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies, Pleonast, Hockey Monkey
zuma (4): sachertorte, Mhaye, Hal Briston, HazelNutCoffee
Diomedes (1): storyteller
Hal(1): faithfool
brewha (1): shadowfacts
No Vote (1): Rysto

Day 2

Day 2 votes in correct order... I'm not sure there's much to be gleaned from day 2, for when Cookies revealed the killer's trait, a OAOW lynch was inevitable.

However, I thought I'd list the pre-revelation vote count:

brewha (2): shadowfacts, Hockey Monkey
faithfool (2): Diomedes, Pleonast
Diomedes (1): faithfool

Here's the end of day vote count:

OAOW (10): Hal, Hawkeyeop, sachertorte, shadowfacts, freudian slit, Kat, Hockey Monkey, faithfool, Diomedes, OAOW
Diomedes (1): Rysto
No Vote (5): brewha, Hazel, zuma, story, Pleonast

The only things to note were that Pleonast placed the 5th vote on OAOW, then unvoted because he said he didn't want to end the day early. Diomedes placed the 9th vote (I think we've discussed that one), and OAOW self-hammered the 10th vote to end the day instantly. Rysto said he placed his vote on Diomedes because of Diomedes's 9th vote.

Day 3

Day 3 vote counts: (This was the no-lynch day - Brewha was 1 vote short of majority)

brewha (7): sach, Hockey Monkey, Hawkeyeop, fruedian slit, Rysto, Hal, Pleonast
faithfool (2): Diomedes, zuma
Diomedes (2): faithfool, kat
Hawkeyeop(1): Brewha
No Vote (2): HazelNutCoffee, storyteller

Day 4

Here was the state of voting before story laid out his case against Fruedian Slit if anyone is interested:

brewha (6): Hockey Monkey, freudian slit, hawkeyeop, sachertorte, Diomedes, faithfool
faithfool (2): Pleonast, zuma
Diomedes (1): HazelNutCoffee
Not yet voted: Rysto, storyteller, brewha, Hal

And the final vote count in the correct order:

Freudian Slit (8): storyteller, brewha, zuma, Diomedes, sachertorte, rysto, hawkeyeop, faithfool
brewha (3): Hockey Monkey, Freudian Slit, Pleonast
Diomedes (2): HazelNutCoffee, Hal

Day 5

Hazel: Pleo, Diomedes, zuma, Hockey Monkey
brewha: faithfool
Diomedes: Hazel, Rysto, Hawkeye, Hal, sach, brewha[/QUOTE]

Day 6

HazelNutCoffee: Pleo, zuma, brewha, Rysto, Hockey
brewha: hawk, sach, faithfool
No Vote: Hazel

[Hawkeyeop]

So, by a simple elimination, you are saying that you don't trust Rysto, Sach, or me.

I'd like some reasoning behind this mistrust.

Those I listed were the ones I had a specific reason to trust. I think Hal more or less confirms Faithfool. Hockey and I have agreed on most things other then Hazel, and as it turns out she was right on that one. Pleo's system had Hazel as most likely scummy and Zuma and I least likely, so he was right on all three. I would think if he was scum his system was arbitrary enough that he could have caused the results to be off more.

So for everyone else I need to reevaluate my opinions, since they were based on faulty reasoning. I was convinced Rysto and you were scummy, but now I need to see if the new data supports this conclusion. Thinks that jump out at me right now are Hazel's refusal to vote for you and Sach having a dossier item of a killer. I think we have been assuming the scum lied more then they actually did about dossiers.

[Pleonast]

Based off my analysis from YesterDay, subtracting out zuma and Hazel...

Day 1
1 scum in brewha, Hawkeyeop, Pleonast, Hockey Monkey
1 scum in sachertorte, faithfool, Rysto

Day 3
1 scum in sach, Hockey Monkey, Hawkeyeop, Rysto, Pleonast
1 scum in faithfool, Brewha

Day 4
1 scum in brewha, sachertorte, rysto, hawkeyeop, faithfool
1 scum in Hockey Monkey, Pleonast

Day 5
1 scum in Rysto, Hawkeye, sach, brewha
1 scum in Pleo, Hockey Monkey, faithfool

Day 6
I think one scum must have voted for Hazel, otherwise we'd have an easy time picking the rest of them off. So:
1 scum in Pleo, brewha, Rysto, Hockey
1 scum in hawk, sach, faithfool

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

My scumminess assessment of everyone, on a scale of 0-100, with the RMS* at the end:
faithfool: 33 50 20 33 33 = 35
Pleonast: 25 20 50 33 25 = 32
brewha: 25 50 20 25 25 = 31
Hockey: 25 20 50 25 25 = 31
Hawkeye: 25 20 20 33 33 = 27
sach: 33 20 20 25 33 = 27
Rysto: 33 20 20 25 25 = 25

For my own vote, I'll make use of my own Towniness:
Hockey: 33 25 100 50 33 = 55
faithfool: 33 50 20 50 33 = 39
brewha: 33 50 20 25 33 = 34
Hawkeye: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28
sach: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28
Rysto: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28

It looks like Hockey clearly has the most scummy vote record at this point. But besides that, she has a record of continual pushing for a brewha lynch. That's feeling more like scum stirring the pot. It worked for me once, so here's hoping:
vote Hockey Monkey

*Root mean square--I use it because it gives more weight to high scores than a simple average. Feel free to do your own number crunching if you don't like it. :p

[Hockey Monkey]

Those I listed were the ones I had a specific reason to trust. I think Hal more or less confirms Faithfool. Hockey and I have agreed on most things other then Hazel, and as it turns out she was right on that one. Pleo's system had Hazel as most likely scummy and Zuma and I least likely, so he was right on all three. I would think if he was scum his system was arbitrary enough that he could have caused the results to be off more.

So for everyone else I need to reevaluate my opinions, since they were based on faulty reasoning. I was convinced Rysto and you were scummy, but now I need to see if the new data supports this conclusion. Thinks that jump out at me right now are Hazel's refusal to vote for you and Sach having a dossier item of a killer. I think we have been assuming the scum lied more then they actually did about dossiers.

Townies can never have a specific reason to trust someone in a no-power role game. Scum, on the other hand can trust people because they know their alignment. Hawkeyeop has been buddying up to me all game and I don't like it at all. I'm going to wait for zuma's death post before making any further analysis.

[Hawkeyeop]

Townies can never have a specific reason to trust someone in a no-power role game. Scum, on the other hand can trust people because they know their alignment. Hawkeyeop has been buddying up to me all game and I don't like it at all. I'm going to wait for zuma's death post before making any further analysis.

Those are people that I believe are less likely to be scum. As Hazel shows, it is certainly possible I'm wrong. Zuma trusted Dio, he wasn't scum, nor did he have a special power. If you scroll up this page a little you will find this line from Brewha.
I'm looking forward to it Pleo. I need another perspective from someone I trust.

So is Brewha scummy then? I don't believe you are scummy, but I certainly am willing to reconsider.

[Hockey Monkey]

Based off my analysis from YesterDay, subtracting out zuma and Hazel...

Day 1
1 scum in brewha, Hawkeyeop, Pleonast, Hockey Monkey
1 scum in sachertorte, faithfool, Rysto

Day 3
1 scum in sach, Hockey Monkey, Hawkeyeop, Rysto, Pleonast
1 scum in faithfool, Brewha

Day 4
1 scum in brewha, sachertorte, rysto, hawkeyeop, faithfool
1 scum in Hockey Monkey, Pleonast

Day 5
1 scum in Rysto, Hawkeye, sach, brewha
1 scum in Pleo, Hockey Monkey, faithfool

Day 6
I think one scum must have voted for Hazel, otherwise we'd have an easy time picking the rest of them off. So:
1 scum in Pleo, brewha, Rysto, Hockey
1 scum in hawk, sach, faithfool

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

My scumminess assessment of everyone, on a scale of 0-100, with the RMS* at the end:
faithfool: 33 50 20 33 33 = 35
Pleonast: 25 20 50 33 25 = 32
brewha: 25 50 20 25 25 = 31
Hockey: 25 20 50 25 25 = 31
Hawkeye: 25 20 20 33 33 = 27
sach: 33 20 20 25 33 = 27
Rysto: 33 20 20 25 25 = 25

For my own vote, I'll make use of my own Towniness:
Hockey: 33 25 100 50 33 = 55
faithfool: 33 50 20 50 33 = 39
brewha: 33 50 20 25 33 = 34
Hawkeye: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28
sach: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28
Rysto: 33 25 20 25 33 = 28

It looks like Hockey clearly has the most scummy vote record at this point. But besides that, she has a record of continual pushing for a brewha lynch. That's feeling more like scum stirring the pot. It worked for me once, so here's hoping:
vote Hockey Monkey

*Root mean square--I use it because it gives more weight to high scores than a simple average. Feel free to do your own number crunching if you don't like it. :p

Pleo, this doesn't make any sense at all. Your first mistake is assuming that the scum will divide themselves out evenly. Your reasonings here are complete BS. I don't CLEARLY have the scummiest vote record because I don't think anyone can understand what your numbers mean. I certainly don't. You could have pulled them out of your ass for all I know. I can't refute what you put up there because you didn't explain it at all. I've continually pushed for a brewha lynch because I thought he was scum. He might still be scum. I'm not assuming anyone isn't scum.

We don't have a mislynch to throw away here. Scum are 2 mislynches away from a win. If we give one up today, I don't think we will be able to recover. All they will have to do is get one townie to agree with them and it's done. I am not scum. I've don't nothing but try to lynch scum. If I get lynched today, we will lose. I'm not sure who the right candidate is, but I know it's not me.

[Hockey Monkey]

snip


So is Brewha scummy then? snip


Ummm, have I been on the fence about that at all? :p

[Pleonast]

Pleo, this doesn't make any sense at all. Your first mistake is assuming that the scum will divide themselves out evenly. Your reasonings here are complete BS. I don't CLEARLY have the scummiest vote record because I don't think anyone can understand what your numbers mean. I certainly don't. You could have pulled them out of your ass for all I know. I can't refute what you put up there because you didn't explain it at all. I've continually pushed for a brewha lynch because I thought he was scum. He might still be scum. I'm not assuming anyone isn't scum.I haven't assumed the scum evenly divided themselves. Go back to my post yesterDay (1314 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9414992&postcount=1314)) for the specifics. Day 1: scum split in same pattern as town. Day 2: not enough info to tell. Day 3: scum split for/against brewha. Day 4: scum avoided voting for Freud. Day 5: scum avoided voting for Hazel. Day 6: one scum voted for Hazel, the rest didn't. From there, I subtracted out the players we now know the alignments of. That left the scum distribution I posted toDay.

I then computed a scumminess of everyone. YesterDay, I wrote it as a simple fraction, today I converted to a percent, for easier comparison. I did the calculation based on my attempt at objectivity, and again using my own alignment.

You came out most scummy, based on the voting patterns of the five Days I analyzed. This same pattern analysis worked well for me before, and so I'm going to keep using it. I'm open to other arguments, though. And I still need to consider who else I think is scum.

Please, let's not focus on the specifics of my method. I've laid it out; it's only one vote. If you're Town and I'm on the wrong track, your best chance to change my vote is to put out a good case against someone else. I don't believe my method enough that'll ignore other's ideas.

We need everyone to make their own arguments.

[brewha]

I’ve done my own interpretation of vote histories. Everyone gets a +1 for voting scum, -1 for voting town, and 0 for not voting or voting for an unknown.

Brewha -0++-+ = 1
Faithfool -+-+00 = 0
Hawkeyeop -+0+00 = 1
HockeyMonkey -+00++ = 2
Pleonast -000++ = 1
Rysto 0-0+-+ = 0
Sacherote -+-+-0 = -1

This makes HockeyMonkey look least scummy.
Pleo, Hawkeye, and myself are mildly town.
Faith and Rysto are neutral.
And Sacherote is mildly scummy.

But, I know I’m town. So if I take that into account and change me from unknown to town, I get:

Brewha -0++-+ = 1
Faithfool -+-+-- = -2
Hawkeyeop -+-+-- = -2
HockeyMonkey -+--++ = 0
Pleonast -0--++ = -1
Rysto 0--+-+ = -1
Sacherote -+-+-- = -2

This makes me slightly town
HockeyMonkey neutral
Rysto and Pleo slightly scummy
And Hawkeye, Faith, and Sach most scummy.

Of course this doesn’t mean much. I think we can agree that there are only 2 scum left. There are three tied for most scummy voting pattern. I’d also like to point out that this only entails final votes. I may have to go back through and see who voted and unvoted for people. I know that HockeyMonkey has unvoted me a few times.

I tried doing the same type of a tally for yesterday by itself, but all I came up with was that Hawkeye, Sach, and Faithfool vote for me instead of HNC. The rest of us (including Zuma) voted HNC. Not really anything to analyze. I need to start from the beginning I think.

[Pleonast]

Are we just waiting for zuma's death post?

[Rysto]

I wouldn't bother. We haven't learned anything of interest from the last several night posts; why would this one be any different?

Expect more from me on the weekend, but not much until then.

[Mtgman]

After a week, I had had enough. Why was I here? Was the meager pay and worthless benefits worth the trouble? And getting a memo from management chastising my barbs at our southern california colleagues as not being at all helpful to proper team building, well, these daily murders aren't all that helpful either.

I cranked up They Might Be Giants to 11, loud enough that I was promptly thrown out of the monestary. Bah, fine. I walked to the edge of the cliff and took in the night air. I pulled out my phone, and started composing my resignation letter.

"td whdn it maye cdncdrn. Pleade accedt my...."

Suddenly I heard a rustling behind me. I turned around, and in the pitch black night I saw a dark figure advancing toward me. Good Lord, what now. The figure remained silent, and completely cloaked in darkness. So I pointed my phone and took a picture. The flash illuminated the silent figure, and I immediately recognized the icepick-wielding rabbit trainer.

Oh crap.

My killer knocked the phone out of my hands and it flew into the cold night air. Me, I flew into the cold night air as well, as my killer promptly pushed me off the cliff, never saying a word.The remaining associates were disappointed the silent killer said nothing to zuma before dispatching him, offering no clue as to the killer's identity.

Then a few of you quickly realized that if you could find his phone... Could zuma have actually photographed his killer? A frenzied search quickly ensued in the fields next to the cliff where he met his demise. Eventually the phone was found, and the remaining associates excitedly paged through dozens of, well, candid, and a few frankly embarassing, shots zuma had taken over the past week. Eventually arriving at the last image he had taken.

You were considerably less excited when it turned out zuma's photographic skills turned out to be as good as his texting skills. No face was present in the photograph, just a partial figure wearing the company-provided parka all assosciates wear.

Upon closer examination, you saw something new which suprised you. A button, like a campign button. It looked like this:

@ C
______
N M

You wish it were bigger, but buttons aren't like belt buckles, there's an upper limit to their size.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Rysto]

The only thing that I got out of that was that it's the same killer as the last two nights. Guess Hazel wasn't a killer.

The clue is leaving me totally baffled. "@C"? "At sea", maybe? Maybe it's One of my high school classmates was killed in the attack on the USS Stark. but I can't make NM fit. Nobody by the initials NM was killed on the Stark.

[Hawkeyeop]

The only thing that I got out of that was that it's the same killer as the last two nights. Guess Hazel wasn't a killer.

The clue is leaving me totally baffled. "@C"? "At sea", maybe? Maybe it's One of my high school classmates was killed in the attack on the USS Stark. but I can't make NM fit. Nobody by the initials NM was killed on the Stark.

Where are you getting @C from? There are four sysmbols. It looks like tools, a city, a pirate symbol, and a bomb. Not that I know what it means. I think Hazel was a killer they used earlier, but not the most recent one.

[Hawkeyeop]

"I've wandered and built on an old, live Soviet bomb dump." ?

[Rysto]

Where are you getting @C from? There are four sysmbols. It looks like tools, a city, a pirate symbol, and a bomb. Not that I know what it means. I think Hazel was a killer they used earlier, but not the most recent one.
:confused:

I see the following:

@ C
______
N M

Can we get some mod clarification here?

[Rysto]

NETA: Apparently my Linux machine doesn't support the webdings and wingdings fonts.

[brewha]

"I've wandered and built on an old, live Soviet bomb dump." ?

If that is what it means (I can see the connection) that trait is held alone by Pleonast.

[Hockey Monkey]

I'm going to agree with the bomb dump interpretation, but I'm still stymied by the rabbit training part.

[Rysto]

If that is what it means (I can see the connection) that trait is held alone by Pleonast.
Well, Pleo was the only one who claimed that trait, anyway.

I'm going to agree with the bomb dump interpretation, but I'm still stymied by the rabbit training part.
It's a reference to storyteller's death. He was killed by a vicious trained rabbit, remember?

[brewha]

I hope you're right Rysto. I've been going over Pleo's voting history - trying to see why he would vote the way he did were he scum.

I can't put it together. He stayed on the Hazel vote even when the Dio wagon got rolling. I didn't put the last Dio vote down until about 30min before nightfall. If he were scum, I would think that he would've taken the opportunity to ensure a Dio lynch.

Then, he came right back the next day and voted Hazel again, this time with success.

Of course, that's based on the voting analysis that Pleo posted. I'm going to have to go over this myself. Barring a majority vote, day lasts until Tues. I'm going to do a complete re-read, but won't have time until this weekend.

[brewha]

NETA - my thought wasn't clear. I meant to say:
I hope you're right Rysto. I hope that someone else has the 'bombs' trait and just didn't claim it.

[Pleonast]

I'm seeing @CNM on my Windows machine here. Is there a coding problem?

It's probably worthwhile to go back and look at the Dossiers carefully. We know they withheld/lied about some traits. There may be some pattern discernible from our confirmed Dossiers that will reveal some inconsistency in the remaining Scum's claimed Dossiers. I'm certainly not the killer, so I know something's not right.

It'd be nice to see more analyses than just mine and brewha's.

[Hal Briston]

OOOOOOooooooooOOOOOOoooooooooooOOOOOoooo!!

(A ghostly voice points the Wingding deficient to a screenshot (www.sirblah.com/misc/mafiascreenshot.jpg) of the symbols in question)

[NAF1138]

I'm seeing @CNM on my Windows machine here. Is there a coding problem?

It's probably worthwhile to go back and look at the Dossiers carefully. We know they withheld/lied about some traits. There may be some pattern discernible from our confirmed Dossiers that will reveal some inconsistency in the remaining Scum's claimed Dossiers. I'm certainly not the killer, so I know something's not right.

It'd be nice to see more analyses than just mine and brewha's.


It would seem not everyone can see this Day's clue. Hal has provided a screen shot of what it is supposed to look like (Hal, thanks for the hand, next time let the mods do this though.)

[Rysto]

Yeah, that's got to be the Nuclear Bombs trait.

Which, of course, tells us precisely nothing, just like the last 2 traits.

[brewha]

I got a hairbrained idea. The nuclear bomb trait is only applicable if Pleo is the killer. I know dossier analysis has been done to death with nothing to show for it, but we have a smaller group to analyze so it may be worth another shot. I entertained the idea of Pleo as the killer because is the lone trait sharer of my public trait.

It seems quite odd that I have no unique traits. I believe that I was meant to have at least one trait, but scum had 'borrowed' one of mine to hide their own. I need to go back and find out what order the traits were revealed and in which order the players revealed them.

I'm really saying nothing here other than thinking outloud. I'll have something more substantial when I get back from my readthrough.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Jeez, guys... this damn near fell to page three!

[brewha]

I did a re-read. I feel stabby. I wasted a shit ton of time to come to
the conclusion that everyone that is left has done some significantly
scummy things. So, who's the scummiest? I'll start with my point of the
re-read - vote analysis. I looked at all votes since day one and once again
assigned a + to a scum vote, 0 to an unknown, and a - to a town vote. Here's the voting history in alphabetical order. Apologies for the name truncation and lack of capital letters - it's just cause I'm lazy.

Brewha: Mhaye, Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Frued, Hockey, Dio, brewha, hawkeye, hazel[0](-1)
Faithfool: faith, hal, dio, oaow, dio, brew, dio, brew, frued*, brew, brew[-3](-6)
Hawkeyeop: hal, mhaye, oaow, brew, brew, frued, faith, brew, dio, brew.[-1](-5)
Hockey Monkey: faith, oaow, mhaye, brew, oaow, brew, brew, hnc, brew,rysto, hnc [+3](-1)
Pleonast: Hal, mhaye, faith, oaow**, faith, brew, faith, brew, hazel, hazel[2](0)
Sacherote: zuma, oaow, brew, frued, faith, dio, brew[-1](-3)
Rysto: dio, brew, frued, hawk, hnc[+1](0)

* voted for freud after required number had already been attained - the
vote did nothing. The scum-number could be dropped one point.
**after enough votes for oaow was attained, pleo unvoted to stop the
clock.The scum number could be dropped a point.

The number in the () is assuming that my affiliation is unknown. The number in the [] is assuming that I am town.

I really don't think that Faith is scum, but she absolutely sucks at voting. The other voting surprise is that Hockey has voted pretty pro town - if you don't count her persistant dogging of me.

I flagged a bunch of posts during my re-read as significant, but I just don't have the ambition to properly code all the post numbers as links tonight. I'll do it either tomorrow or Sun.

[CatInASuit]

Bump - because it did actually fall off the end of Page 2. :(

[brewha]

HERE (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2295/2255119584_2e784a3b8d_b.jpg)
is the result of my re read.

It makes no sense to me either, but I'll detail a few points.

The upper left corner are all the posts that I flagged as Hawkeye scummy.

**On preview none of my coding for post numbers work - so don't bother clicking on them. I'll fix em later, but gotta take off for the rest of the day, and just want to get this out there for discussion**

#960 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=960), he promises a case against me.

#1240 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=1240) claims to have already laid out 17 reasons against me, but says he will re-state them.

#1313 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=1313) again promises a case against me

#1374 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=1374) again promises a case against me

What does this mean? I don't know. He is either scum that has been on me all game because people keep getting on my bandwagon, or he is a well intentioned but misinformed town. Either way, he keeps claiming to have this great case against me, but I've seen nothing of it.

#984 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=984), he flips out seemingly unprovoked.

#1137 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=1137), Defends HNC (who we know is scum) and Hockey Monkey - who I suspect and has since tried to distance herself from Hawkeye.

#1260 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=1260) defends HNC again

Once again - scummy posts, but could be misinformed town.




Post #968 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452909&postcount=968) really bothers me - or I should say the following posts bother me. Story (known town) made a long and very well thought out case against Hawkeye. In a few words, Hawkeye refutes one part of Story's case, and Story dismisses the whole thing. I think he was on to something and gave up to easily.

Other things I've noticed about Hawkeye. According to the Basketball score randomizer thingie, he was supposed to reveal 8th. He held up the reveal process until #14. He would have been last, but Hal had drawn #15 and waited until the everyone else had revealed to reveal his.

This means that he had access to all traits (other than Hal's) before he revealed. I'm going to suggest that he 'borrowed' half of what he claimed and the other half of his dossier is correct. That way, no matter what, he could claim that he had half of his traits in common with town. Of course this is all speculation, but I do have two traits in common with him and none unique to myself.

Hawkeye does have two things going for him. He did vote for Frued and OAOW.

OTOH, if we were to go on vote analysis alone, I'd have to vote for Faithfool. She did vote for Frued, but it was after we already had enough to lynch. She did vote for OAOW, so I'll give her that.
But, she also voted for: Hal, Dio 3 times, and myself 4 times.

So, after all that, I don't have anything bulletproof. But, I do (and have for the last few (game) days) think that Hawkeye is the most likely scum.



Vote Hawkeyeop

[brewha]

Also (as noted on my chicken scratchings) what's with Zuma and Top Hot dogs? It's come up several times and it makes me wonder if it's some code I'm too obtuse to get.

And then there's the Queen Latifa remark that I didn't get either.

[Pleonast]

Sorry, everyone, I was sick again. Too busy today to do anything in depth, but I should have some time tomorrow to relook over things.

Why is there not more discussion of who to lynch? Are brewha and I the only ones who've voted? Where is everyone else?

We need everyone to put forward their voting candidates. 1) To see if there's a consensus, since that's our best way to catch scum. 2) To leave a trail for others to follow.

We're forfeiting the game to the scum by not talking. :(

[Hockey Monkey]

I apologise for my extended absence this day. We've had some changes at work over the last week that made it a little more difficult to put any time in on the game.

Top Dog is a joke that developed when zuma knew he was caught in a game and decided to mess with our voting record by voting for everyone and top dog. Since then anyone voting top dog was a scum basically saying "you got me".

Now, with that taken care of, I still have some pretty strong instincts that brewha and Rysto are our two remaining scum. But that's really all I've got...instincts and gut feelings. Pleonast and Hawkeyeop are not off the hook though. Pleo may have revealed his dossier first in an effort to appear as townie as possible. The scum had access to each other's dossier's during Night One, and it's possible that he could have constructed a good one before hand. He either is last night's killer or shares a trait with the killer. I'm not considering faithfool as a suspect right now.

My first vote for the day will be

a vote for Rysto for the same reason I voted for him yesterDay. Let's start getting votes out people, and discuss what we are going to do.

[brewha]

Alright, this sucks. We're gonna lose due to apathy.

The lynch deadline is tomorrow. We have three votes and maybe 1/2 dozen posts with any content - in 7 DAYS!

Town. I don't care if you don't have anything truly profound or earth shattering to say, just say something - anything. State who you think is guilty or innocent.

If we don't know where you stand, there's nothing we can do.

At this rate, we're gonna have another clusterfuck voting frenzy sometime within two hours of the deadline tomorrow - exactly what the scum wants.

[NAF1138]

1 - Hocky Monkey (Pleo)
1 - Hawkeyeop (brewha)
1 - Rysto (Hockey Monkey)

27 and a half hours to go in the Day. It takes 4 votes on a single person to make a lynch happen.

Also...some of you haven't posted enough toDay. I will be PMing you shortly if this is something you need to worry about. If you can't get 3 posts in by the end of the Day or be able to tell me why, I am mod killing you.

[Hawkeyeop]

I apologize as well for not posting. I was away all weekend and am now catching up. on the bright side.. catching up really didn't take long. It is going to to take me a while to gather and express my thoughts, so I'll just start with my conclusion.

vote Sach

This is a tentative vote, but I wanted to get something on record. More in a bit.

[Rysto]

sachertorte hasn't posted once toDay. Can we get a mod-poke, please?
Yes, I'm aware of the hypocrisy.

HM seems to have the most support out of my two suspects, so I'm going to go ahead and vote Hockey Monkey

I'm putting together my full case now.

[NAF1138]

sachertorte hasn't posted once toDay. Can we get a mod-poke, please?
.


Already on it. Several pokes have gone out.

[brewha]

Not my #1 choice, but definitely a viable canidate. And, if she's not scum, I'm almost sure I know who is. So,

Unvote Hawkeyeop

Vote Hockey Monkey


After re-reading the entire thread, it's become quite clear to me that Rysto and Hockey Monkey are on opposite teams. I'm pretty confident the Rysto is on the town side, but if Hockey Monkey does turn up town - Rysto is scum.

[Hawkeyeop]

Let’s start with some vote analysis.

Day 1
Now that we know Zuma is town, I will put a little more weight in his belief that Brewha first vote was not scummy. Still, I think it is mistake to put much credence in the fact that scum’s votes will be systematic.

Day 5

I still find it odd that Hazel did not vote for Brewha when facing likely death. If Hazel voted for Brewha then all we would need was Hockey to vote for Brewha (Not a totally unreasonable assumption as Hockey has been pretty hard on Brewha all game) for Brewha to be lynched. Thus, if Brewha was not scum, the town would need to right 3 consecutive days to win. I would expect for Hazel to take that shot if she could. The fact that she didn’t makes me think that Brewha was also scum.

Day 6

Three people ended the day on Brewha. I agree that it is unlikely that both scum voted for Hazel. I know I’m not scum and I don’t think Faith is scum, which leaves Sach as the most likely suspect.

[Hawkeyeop]

After re-reading the entire thread, it's become quite clear to me that Rysto and Hockey Monkey are on opposite teams. I'm pretty confident the Rysto is on the town side, but if Hockey Monkey does turn up town - Rysto is scum.

I actually more had that thought with Rysto and Hazel then with Rysto and Hockey. They were the two primary lurkers early and I didn't think the scum would double up on that strategy. I just think I picked the wrong one as the scum. I, likewise, still think that one scum was advocating to not reveal the dossiers early. Now I think it was Sach and not Rysto. So, as of now, I think Rysto and Hockey are both town members who have wrongly gone after each other.

[Hockey Monkey]

Lynching me is absolutely the wrong move. I want to win this game. Let's lynch Rysto first.

I am one of 4 people who had/have 3 unique dossier items. Earlier in the game I hypothesised that those people were town. My reasons for that were that 1) I am town, and 2) the reason I thought we had more unique items was that scum also shared some but covered them up, leaving us more vulnerable if a killer showed one of those traits. I'm the only one left out of the 4 and the other three have proven to be town, so I know my theory was correct. Storyteller, ShadowFacts, and Zuma were the other three.

I thought dossier revelation was good for the town, I lobbied for OAOW's lynch as well as Hazel's. I wasn't sure about Freudian, but I would have moved my vote to her if necessary to make sure there was a lynch. I was livid over the No-Lynch. I have doggedly stood by my beliefs of who is scum until arguments are made to change my mind. I'm not so set that I cannot be moved.

My theory on the 2 traits that were shared by 4 people each also panned out with Freudian. The theory was that the reason 4 people shared a trait had to be because one of the people with is was a scum who stole it. It was true of Freudian, but we have yet to see if either brewha or faithfool is scum. It was this theory that led me to be more trusting of Hawkeyeop (even though I didn't say anything about it), because that trait was his public one so I know he didn't steal it (even though he may yet still be scum). If you want to know what I'm talking about, it's on sheet 3 of the dossier link in my signature.

Rysto, on the other hand was anti- dossier reveal, lurky, and has had a scummy vote pattern, especially with the Diomedes lynch.

Please vote Rysto. My name is Hockey Monkey and I approved this message.

[Rysto]

My name is Hockey Monkey and I approved this message.
Two thoughts:

a) This is the first time in history this phrase has been used with a message saying "Don't vote for me."
b) Whenever you hear that phrase, you know that the preceding message is full of lies and half-truths. :p

[brewha]

Yeah! Actual conversation!


OK Hockey, I'm willing to listen to you. Like I said in my thread analysis, everyone has done some scummy things.

For instance, Rysto defended OAOW and discouraged the vote against him back in post 699. But, HNC jumped right in afterward and agreed. To me, that seemed more like scum jumping in to agree with a townie (who happened to have a scummy opinion) than scum agreeing with scum.

From my reread, it seems to me that Hawkeye and Hockey are on one team and Rysto and Sach are on the opposite team.

So, I say we either lynch Hockey or Rysto today - that should tell us who to lynch tomorrow.

I will be willing to switch my vote depending on what Rysto's Hockey case says.

[Hawkeyeop]

Yeah! Actual conversation!


OK Hockey, I'm willing to listen to you. Like I said in my thread analysis, everyone has done some scummy things.

For instance, Rysto defended OAOW and discouraged the vote against him back in post 699. But, HNC jumped right in afterward and agreed. To me, that seemed more like scum jumping in to agree with a townie (who happened to have a scummy opinion) than scum agreeing with scum.

From my reread, it seems to me that Hawkeye and Hockey are on one team and Rysto and Sach are on the opposite team.

So, I say we either lynch Hockey or Rysto today - that should tell us who to lynch tomorrow.

I will be willing to switch my vote depending on what Rysto's Hockey case says.

So, under your plan, if one of Pleo, Faithfool, or you is scum, we are guaranteed a loss.

[brewha]

Hawkeye, you're almost as frustrating as ...! It's maddening how you assume you know what I mean and then just put those words in my mouth.

You're implying that I said, "kill Rysto, if he's town - kill Hawkeye and Hockey, If he's scum, kill Sach".

I said no such thing. I said we lynch one of them - Depending on the outcome of that lynch, we talk about what to do the next day. I wanted to get my beliefs of whose scum and town out in the open in case I'm lynched today or scum killed tonight. It would be quite helpful if everyone else would post who they trust and distrust instead of posting misleading summaries of other's ideas.

How about it Hawkeye? Where's your allegiance?

[Hawkeyeop]

So, I say we either lynch Hockey or Rysto today - that should tell us who to lynch tomorrow.

I said we lynch one of them - Depending on the outcome of that lynch, we talk about what to do the next day

You did not say it would give us something to discuss the next day. You said, categorically, it will "tell us who to lynch tomorrow" .

[Hockey Monkey]

You did not say it would give us something to discuss the next day. You said, categorically, it will "tell us who to lynch tomorrow" .

And if Brewha is scum, and Rysto and I turn out to be vehemently opposed townies, this plan has the scum winning. I dislike linking two people together because of this. Invariably the two both turn out to be town and the crowd goes "oops!". Me being town does not automatically make Rysto, or anyone else for that matter, scum. Even though I think Rysto is scum at this point, make your own decisions on who to lynch when I am revealed as a loyal associate.

[brewha]

I didn't know that my opinion was so highly regarded that me merely saying it would make it happen! :)

All snarkiness aside, I see how my words could have been misread. I should have prefaced my statement with some type of disclaimer saying that the following are my beliefs and are in no way supported by the town, scum, or any other logical asscociation.

I found it odd that Rysto seemed eager to lynch Hawkeye - even stating that he was sure Hawkeye was scum - but didn't vote for him. Even after I made the first vote, he still didn't vote for him.

I also thought it was odd that he was Hockey was the other scum and that there was no chance that Sach could be the other one - at least he didnt' comment on it.

Sach - AFAIK - hasn't posted at all today.

Still waiting on Rysto's analysis of Hockey, but if scum haven't voted yet and Hockey is town, we could have an insta lynch. So, for now,

Unvote Hockey Monkey

I really need to make up my mine - I know.

[Hockey Monkey]

(oog)

A little extra vitriol for Rysto - The Senators got Commodore and Stillman - two of my favorite Canes.

:::shakes fist::: Damn you Ottawa!

(game on)

[Hawkeyeop]

So what does everyone think about Sach. The things that bother me are:

1. His vote for Brewha on day 6

2. He had a revealed trait on his dossier (assuming that we were right about the pig trait). No one else had that trait. We never followed up on it.

3. He argued against revealing dossiers.

4. Zuma was suspicious of his playing style. I don't really know Sach's playing style very well, but we do know that Zuma is trustworthy.

5. He has offered very little analysis of late and is currently MIA. He has however posted a vote count on the other board.

I can probably find more if I comb through the thread. However, I tried doing that Brewha and ended only getting halfway through and getting nothing posted, so I'm going for quick over nothing.

[brewha]

This is the kind of analysis that is helpful. I too think that there is something suspicious about Sach.

If you look back at my page of chickenscratches, I noted that on two different occasions Zuma expressed her distrust toward Sach.

Also, Sach posted his distrust list - Zuma was at the top, followed by me then Faithfool.


OTOH, Sach did vote for OAOW and Frued.

[Hawkeyeop]

This is the kind of analysis that is helpful.

How dare you call me helpful!!! Oh what? Right. Thanks. ;)

[sachertorte]

Hi. I'm here, but I don't have a whole lot of time today to devote to game playing. I've been trying to get more work done this month. Unfortunately I have a meeting in 30 minutes. Right now I don't know what to do.

Well, I know that I should be re-reading the thread, but I just haven't had time. I'm wary of just throwing out a vote without thinking about it more, which I know I should have been doing for the past several days, but I haven't. Sorry.

[Rysto]

(oog)

A little extra vitriol for Rysto - The Senators got Commodore and Stillman - two of my favorite Canes.

:::shakes fist::: Damn you Ottawa!

(game on)
Holy shit!

(case is being done and being edited, but don't expect much new material)

[Rysto]

Before I start my case, I note with displeasure that brewha's name has once again come up. This is beyond ridiculous, people. zuma was one of brewha's biggest supporters, and now he's dead. A vote for brewha is exactly what the scum are looking for. I realize that nobody's actually voted for him yet, but I think that a pre-emptive strike is necessary with sachertorte and faithfool yet to vote.

I will be willing to switch my vote depending on what Rysto's Hockey case says.
I'm afraid that you're about to be disappointed; I haven't found anything really new. I thought that I had found a smoking gun on Day 1 -- it looked as though HM had betrayed knowledge about Santos's dossier that she shouldn't have had -- but I dug deeper and discovered that it was perfectly legitimate that she would know.

But this segues nicely into the origins of my case against Hawkeyeop and Hockey Monkey. You see, in the wake of the Diomedes disaster, I new that I was in trouble. I had a well-deserved reputation for being a lurker and I had just led a very late bandwagon against a Townie. I figured that I would be a very attractive lynch candidate for the scum: who could blame them for leading a lynch against somebody who looked so scummy? So I decided to hold back on Day 6. I had no real suspects at the time anyway, and I wanted to see if any of the scum would tip their hand in trying to build a case against me. Just about everybody FOS'ed me, which is nothing more than I expected. Then Hawkeyeop (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447411&page=28&pp=50) tried to build a case based on the fact that I was wary about revealing dossiers. Go back and re-read Day 1. Not a single confirmed scum argued against revealing. Hawkeyeop threw out the absurd theory that I was being used as a weather vane to gauge the town's opposition to the idea. Never mind that I didn't bring up the idea. Never mind that I argued against long after some scum argued for reveals. This is not pro-town behaviour: as I said above, a pro-town move is to come up with a theory and then investigate it. Smudging a player by throwing out a theory without thinking it through? That's scummy, especially from my perspective, because I know that I am town. I realize that this is not a compelling argument for the rest of you, because you don't know my alignment. But I want to give you a feel for how and why I developed my theory against Hazel, Hawk and Hockey.

The other post that really jumped out at me was Hockey Monkey (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9423326&postcount=1363)'s. Voting with just "let's try and get this bandwagon started" looks bad. But she completely ignored my previous post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9405255&postcount=1228) in the thread, in which I reiterated my suspicions of Dio, and mentioned some new things that had jumped out at me. HM has made no mention of this whatsoever. She keeps trying to give the impression that I voted for no reason at all. This is doubly scummy: not only has she not bothered to investigate her theory, she hasn't considered exculpatory evidence even after I pointed it out. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9430599&postcount=1406) Again, this looks much more convincing from my perspective, because I know that I'm not town.

And so I probably shouldn't have been as surprised as I was on Day 6 when the leading candidates ended being neither of my prime suspects. I wasn't happy. From my perspective, I had not been able to see any good argument against brewha since Day 3 ended(and if memory serves, I was mostly on the brewha bandwagon in Day 3 due to pure inertia: nobody else had anywhere near enough votes against them). Hazel's Day 5 vote made no sense to me unless she was town: even if brewha were scum, placing a first vote late in the Day made little sense if she was going to save herself. I argued heavily against both lynches, challenging people to come up with a believable theory to explain the Day 5 vote. I threw out an idea of my own: things might make sense if the other two scum were already on the brewha bandwagon. That's the moment where things went *click* for me. I knew who was already on the brewha bandwagon: Hawkeyeop and Hockey Monkey. Their dogged pursuit of brewha was a major reason why I trusted him. As I've mentioned before, I'm a cautious player by nature. Just Pleonast about what my major worry was when I was a witch in his Conspiracy game: I was constantly saying that above all, we had to be careful not to vote as a bloc. Too often masons fall into that trap. I could easily understand voting as a bloc worrying scum as well. And so I looked back at Day 5 when Hazel voted, and lo and behold, the only other players with votes against them were Hockey, Hawkeye and faithfool. faithfool was not a popular target, and a vote for either of her fellow scum could lead to a disastrous bandwagon against scum. So she did the only thing she could, and voted for somebody else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hazel's vote on Day 5 only makes sense if two of Hockey Monkey, Hawkeyeop and faithfool are scum.

Several people have brought up how scummy Hazel's vote record is. This doesn't make much sense: Hazel's played scum before and she isn't an idiot. So why was she voting in such a scummy manner? Easy, because her fellow scum were almost always on bandwagons already. She had to avoid the bandwagons to avoid voting with her fellow scum. Again, this is only true if Hockey Monkey and Hawkeyeop are scum. Her pre-Day 5 voting record does not make as much sense if faithfool is scum.

Hockey Monkey's vote on Hazel (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9435524&postcount=1464) stinks to high heaven. It's 11:30 on a Sunday night. Why on earth is she starting the 12-hour clock at that time? That's absolutely not pro-Town, and it stinks even worse because Hazel ended up being scum. No scum would be stupid enough to start the clock on a townie like that. But scum might try it on another scum to gain pro-town points with the rest of the Town. I can't think of any reason to start the clock like that except to try and mess with my head: I was convinced that both of them are scum, so being the hammer on Hazel could have been an attempt to convince me that either Hazel or Hockey was town.

[Pleonast]

I want to look at voting record a different way, by person rather than Day. I hope I got this right (my mind keeps conflating Hawkeye and Hockey!).

brewha
3rd MHaye (Lynch)
(No Vote)
1st Hawkeye (Single)
2nd Freud (Lynch)
6th Diomedes (Lynch, Hammer)
3rd Hazel (Lynch)

faith
1st Hal (Single)
8th OaOW (Lynch, Hammer)
1st Diomedes
8th Freud (Lynch, Post-Hammer)
1st brewha (Single)
3rd brewha

Hawkeye
6th MHaye (Lynch)
2nd OaOW (Lynch)
3rd brewha
7th Freud (Lynch, Hammer)
3rd Diomedes (Lynch)
1st brewha

Hockey
10th MHaye (Lynch, Hammer)
7th OaOW (Lynch)
2nd brewha
1st brewha
4th Hazel
5th Hazel (Lynch, Hammer)

Pleonast
9th MHaye (Lynch)
(No Vote)
7th brewha
3rd brewha
1st Hazel
1st Hazel (Lynch)

Rysto
(No Vote)
1st Diomedes (Single)
5th brewha
6th Freud (Lynch)
2nd Diomedes (Lynch)
4th Hazel (Lynch)

sach
1st zuma
3rd OaOW (Lynch)
1st brewha
5th Freud (Lynch)
5th Diomedes (Lynch)
3rd brewha

Analysis in a bit once I ponder this some more.

[Rysto]

I am one of 4 people who had/have 3 unique dossier items. Earlier in the game I hypothesised that those people were town. My reasons for that were that 1) I am town, and 2) the reason I thought we had more unique items was that scum also shared some but covered them up, leaving us more vulnerable if a killer showed one of those traits. I'm the only one left out of the 4 and the other three have proven to be town, so I know my theory was correct. Storyteller, ShadowFacts, and Zuma were the other three.
This is a really convenient theory for you. Of course, it's established that you knew the origin of the traits before you revealed your own, so you could have easily made up a bunch of new traits from the 2 threads as well as copying some previous ones.

This kind of dossier analysis is crap. We can't assume anything from the dossiers, because scum lie. Besides, if you're scum, you could just as easily have taken some random fact about your dossier, made-up or not, that you happen to share with dead townies. This is not a compelling argument.

I thought dossier revelation was good for the town, I lobbied for OAOW's lynch as well as Hazel's. I wasn't sure about Freudian, but I would have moved my vote to her if necessary to make sure there was a lynch. I was livid over the No-Lynch. I have doggedly stood by my beliefs of who is scum until arguments are made to change my mind. I'm not so set that I cannot be moved.
Except when it comes to brewha, of course.

Rysto, on the other hand was anti- dossier reveal,
I was wary about dossier reveals. Here's what I said:
Well, the scum are just going to lie about their dossiers. Why wouldn't they? Unless there's some hidden mechanism in the game for revealing living players' dossiers, we'd never catch anybody in a lie, either.

The trouble we have with the dossiers is that we don't know exactly how they're going to play into this game -- there's that nagging 7% of the game that's been left hidden. So, absent a good reason to reveal the dossiers, I'd be wary of revealing them myself.
And what's happened? Yeah, we caught OAOW, but he self-hammered, for cripes' sake. We were meant to catch him. Every other scum has lied about their dossiers and so revealing them hasn't done anything for us since the OAOW lynch. We've lynched as least as many townies based on dossier analysis as we have scum.

lurky,
I've posted more than Pleonast, faithfool and sachertorte

and has had a scummy vote pattern, especially with the Diomedes lynch.
You can't just throw crap out like this. Let's see some analysis. What in my vote pattern is scummy? I'll give you the Dio lynch; that looks very bad on me. But what else? This is the first time I've seen anybody say that my voting pattern as a whole.

On that note:
My first vote for the day will be

a vote for Rysto for the same reason I voted for him yesterDay. Let's start getting votes out people, and discuss what we are going to do.

Ok, let's go back to Day 6 and see those reasons

What game are you reading? I started the day with a vote on the record! Do I need to make or change my vote every time I am considering my options? The statement you gave above seems intentionally misleading. I don't see how you can say I've had no votes on the record. I just unvoted brewha not more than an hour or so ago.

So, I'll replace that one now.

vote Rysto
Hm, that doesn't help. Let's go further back.

'm contemplating switching my vote over to Rysto right now. The dossier reveal stance bothers me, but his vote on Diomedes is the cincher for me. Brewha, you have made some compelling pleas that are sounding more and more townie to me, and I would be willing to spare you in favor of either Rysto or Hazel today, so long as we don't consider you "confirmed" if we do so. You are still very very high on my suspect list. I still don't see how you are still alive if you are town.I switched votes because it was looking like no one else was going to vote brewha with me. It was a heavy sigh that conveyed my reluctance to switch because dammit, I've put in a lot of effort. Although, I do find brewha and HNC about equally scummy.

I think Rysto's "let's get this bandwagon started" vote is just about the scummiest scum thing I've ever seen a scummy scum do.

So today, I will be equally joyful to toss brewha, HNC, or Rysto.
That's quite a comprehensive case you have there, Hockey Monkey. :dubious:

[Rysto]

So what does everyone think about Sach. The things that bother me are:

1. His vote for Brewha on day 6
Ok, if voting for brewha is scummy now, there are a few people I'd like to see lynched first. Can you guess who they are?

2. He had a revealed trait on his dossier (assuming that we were right about the pig trait). No one else had that trait. We never followed up on it.
...

You want to lynch sachertorte because he matches one trait of the second killer? The killer who was almost certainly Freudian Slit? Do you know who else matched a trait from that killer? Hockey Monkey. But as I've said, this kind of dossier analysis is crap, because scum lie.

3. He argued against revealing dossiers.
This again?

4. Zuma was suspicious of his playing style. I don't really know Sach's playing style very well, but we do know that Zuma is trustworthy.
And storyteller was suspicious of Diomedes. Townies sometimes suspect townies, and sometimes they suspect scum.

5. He has offered very little analysis of late and is currently MIA. He has however posted a vote count on the other board.
Again with the lynch lurkers bandwagon? This does not look good on you.

Your manufactured cases are getting weaker and weaker, Hawkeyeop.

For instance, Rysto defended OAOW and discouraged the vote against him back in post 699. But, HNC jumped right in afterward and agreed. To me, that seemed more like scum jumping in to agree with a townie (who happened to have a scummy opinion) than scum agreeing with scum.
I was initially concerned about the speed at which the bandwagon got steam. Speed lynches, in my experience, rarely work out well for the town, even if the target really is scum(see the first Mafia game for an example of this). I did eventually offer up a theory that might have cleared OAOW, but it was shot down right away.

I found it odd that Rysto seemed eager to lynch Hawkeye - even stating that he was sure Hawkeye was scum - but didn't vote for him. Even after I made the first vote, he still didn't vote for him.
Ever since I came up with my theory based on Hazel's vote history, I've found Hockey Monkey slightly scummier than Hawkeyeop. I've been quite (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9437349&postcount=1478) vocal (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9444932&postcount=1510) about this.

I also thought it was odd that he was Hockey was the other scum and that there was no chance that Sach could be the other one - at least he didnt' comment on it.
Again, sach doesn't fit my theory based on Hazel's voting patterns.


Ok, I think that I'm all caught up.

[Hawkeyeop]

Before I start my case, I note with displeasure that brewha's name has once again come up. This is beyond ridiculous, people. zuma was one of brewha's biggest supporters, and now he's dead. A vote for brewha is exactly what the scum are looking for. I realize that nobody's actually voted for him yet, but I think that a pre-emptive strike is necessary with sachertorte and faithfool yet to vote.

Wait what? Zuma didn't have perfect knowledge. His entire case for Brewha was that he didn't believe scum would be 3 of the first 4 votes for a lynch candidate day one. If you disagree with that logic, then Brewha is a lynch candidate.

[Pleonast]

I don't have anything comprehensive to say, just some observations.

1) Hockey and I have the same voting record (since I was voting OaOW until I stopped the clock). Not sure if this makes me more or less likely to keep my vote on her.

2) The Hammer voter for each of our five lynches is still alive: 1 Hockey on MHaye, 2 faith on OaOW, 4 Hawkeye on Freud, 5 brewha on Diomedes, 6 Hockey on Hazel. Very strange. Is this coincidence? Are Hammers more or less likely to be scum?

3) Everyone alive has voted for brewha (twice, except for Rysto) and he is only living person anyone has voted for (all other vote getters are dead, except for brewha's vote for Hawkeye). Again, no idea what this means.

[Rysto]

Wait what? Zuma didn't have perfect knowledge. His entire case for Brewha was that he didn't believe scum would be 3 of the first 4 votes for a lynch candidate day one. If you disagree with that logic, then Brewha is a lynch candidate.
My point is that I think that one reason that zuma was killed was to remove an opponent to a brewha lynch, leaving behind enough players who voted brewha yesterday for a lynch toDay or toMorrow.

[Hockey Monkey]

SNIP

HM has made no mention of this whatsoever. She keeps trying to give the impression that I voted for no reason at all. This is doubly scummy: not only has she not bothered to investigate her theory, she hasn't considered exculpatory evidence even after I pointed it out. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9430599&postcount=1406) Again, this looks much more convincing from my perspective, because I know that I'm not town.

SNIP.

Bolding added by me

Shall I take this as a scum slip or an out and out confession?

[sachertorte]

So what does everyone think about Sach. The things that bother me are:

1. His vote for Brewha on day 6

2. He had a revealed trait on his dossier (assuming that we were right about the pig trait). No one else had that trait. We never followed up on it.

3. He argued against revealing dossiers.

4. Zuma was suspicious of his playing style. I don't really know Sach's playing style very well, but we do know that Zuma is trustworthy.

5. He has offered very little analysis of late and is currently MIA. He has however posted a vote count on the other board.

I can probably find more if I comb through the thread. However, I tried doing that Brewha and ended only getting halfway through and getting nothing posted, so I'm going for quick over nothing.

1. I was not the only person suspicious of brewha on Day 6, and my suspicion persists. I don't see how zuma being Town exonerates brewha. I accepted zuma's reasoning that brewha and/or HazelNutCoffee were scum. I chose brewha over HazelNutCoffee for reasons I outlined on Day 6: my previous suspicion of brewha and I did not accept HazelNutCoffee's vote history as reason to vote for her.

2. Cow-udders. Yes, I've tried them.

3. Yes, I argued against dossier reveals. I felt that revealing them would hurt the town more than help. I still think there is real potential damage there, see #2.

4. I acknowledged and still acknowledge that my behavior is different in this game than in M5. I believe that is to be expected.

5. I don't see how the other game is relevant to this one. I'm not even playing that game.

[Rysto]

Bolding added by me

Shall I take this as a scum slip or an out and out confession?
How about dumb brainfart? Dunno what I was thinking there. I guess I mixed up "I know that I'm town" and "I know that I'm not scum" in my head?

[Hawkeyeop]

You want to lynch sachertorte because he matches one trait of the second killer? The killer who was almost certainly Freudian Slit? Do you know who else matched a trait from that killer? Hockey Monkey. But as I've said, this kind of dossier analysis is crap, because scum lie.

Why are you so confident that it was Freudian Slit? She shared no traits that the killer had, and we did not use dossier evidence to lynch her. I think Sach might of behind those two killings, and then pulled when it became too likely that his public trait would be revealed. I thought Hockey matched a trait from the first killer, not the second. I'll have to go look that up.

This again?

Yup. The dossier reveals were clearly a pro town mechanism. The town didn't fully know at that point, but the scum did. I find it unlikely that there was no scum arguing in favor of not revealing.

And storyteller was suspicious of Diomedes. Townies sometimes suspect townies, and sometimes they suspect scum.

Well if you are going to use Zuma's feeling on Brewha as a defense, then I think we have to consider his feelings on other individuals as well. It isn't a major point, but I thought it worth noting. On preview, you expanded on your point, so I'll just stick with it is worth noting.

Again with the lynch lurkers bandwagon? This does not look good on you.

When have I wanted to lynch lurkers before?

[Rysto]

Why are you so confident that it was Freudian Slit? She shared no traits that the killer had, and we did not use dossier evidence to lynch her.
Because the scum changed killers when she was dead? Which they haven't seemed to do unless their killer was lynched?

When have I wanted to lynch lurkers before?
Uh, me?

[Hawkeyeop]

1. I was not the only person suspicious of brewha on Day 6, and my suspicion persists. I don't see how zuma being Town exonerates brewha. I accepted zuma's reasoning that brewha and/or HazelNutCoffee were scum. I chose brewha over HazelNutCoffee for reasons I outlined on Day 6: my previous suspicion of brewha and I did not accept HazelNutCoffee's vote history as reason to vote for her.

I agree with you completely. But I know I'm not scum, I don't think Faith is scum, and I find it unlikely that both scum voted for Hazel. Perhaps if Brewha is scum it would make sense, but even then, I would think the scum would split their votes.

3. Yes, I argued against dossier reveals. I felt that revealing them would hurt the town more than help. I still think there is real potential damage there, see #2.

Yes, but so far the people who have had killer traits revealed have been more likely to be scum. It isn't a guarantee, but is definitely a negative on your and Pleo's accounts.

5. I don't see how the other game is relevant to this one. I'm not even playing that game.

Just a sign that you still exist.

[/QUOTE]

[Hawkeyeop]

Because the scum changed killers when she was dead? Which they haven't seemed to do unless their killer was lynched?

Well the only other time a killer had two traits revealed was OAOW and he was killed before he could be used again. With each trait revealed the odd's of the next trait being revealed being the public trait increased. It is also possible that Sach had other traits that he didn't lie about. A second trait of his coming up would of been a big black mark.

Uh, me?

Well I haven't been proven wrong on that one yet. Hazel was a bigger lurker and I certainly came to her defense, wrongly in retrospect.

[Hawkeyeop]

One more point on Sach. His vote broke the tie between Hazel and Dio day 5. While Brewha caused the lynch, at that point, his vote was more voting Dio over a no lynch. Sach chose to put Dio on the brink of lynch rather then Hazel.

[Rysto]

Oh, and while I'm thinking about this, next week I'll be on Reading Week. I think that I'm going skiing Monday though Wednesday and won't have any internet access during that time. I think that the next Day will end on Thursday so hopefully my absence won't be a big problem. If my plans change any I'll let you all know.

[Rysto]

I thought Hockey matched a trait from the first killer, not the second. I'll have to go look that up.
Have you had a chance to look at this, Hawkeyeop? I'm not of a mind to dig back through this huge thread to find the Day 4 clue; I've spent too much time on this thread today as it is.

[brewha]

While Brewha caused the lynch, at that point, his vote was more voting Dio over a no lynch.

Take a look at the post directly above mine before you put all the blame on my shoulders.

If you need a reminder, you pleaded that someone make the final vote so that we didn't have a no lynch.

I'm not saying that no blame should be on me, I'm just saying that there's enough to go around and you can claim your share.

[brewha]

9hrs 15min til lynch.

set your clocks.

[Hawkeyeop]

Take a look at the post directly above mine before you put all the blame on my shoulders.

If you need a reminder, you pleaded that someone make the final vote so that we didn't have a no lynch.

I'm not saying that no blame should be on me, I'm just saying that there's enough to go around and you can claim your share.


Sorry if that wasn't clear, that was actually a defense of you. What I meant was Sach voted Dio over Hazel. You voted Dio over a no lynch. Thus I find Sach's vote more suspicious.

[Hawkeyeop]

Have you had a chance to look at this, Hawkeyeop? I'm not of a mind to dig back through this huge thread to find the Day 4 clue; I've spent too much time on this thread today as it is.

Hockey Monkey once drove a VW Bug through the front door of a 7/11. OAOW shared this trait. I think we can safely say OAOW was the first killer and not Hockey. Sach was alone on the pig trait.

[brewha]

We've got a little less than 5 hrs to go and I think we need to come to a concensus. Unfortunatley, it seems that we are not going to be able to count on Faithfool for a vote - unless she happens to get computer access before the deadline.

It's likely that there's 2 scum left. There's 7 people still playing - which means 5 town. If Faith is town, we need all 4 of us active townies to vote together.

I'm going with what voting evidence I have and I'm going to side with Rysto and Pleo.

Vote Hockey Monkey

Hawkeye is looking less and less scummy - though still near the top of my list.

The important thing is that we lynch someone today. A no lynch is almost as bad for us as a town lynch, and at least if we do end up with a town lynch we can learn something. We will learn nothing from a no lynch.

[Hockey Monkey]

The only thing you will learn from lynching me is that I'm town, and you will be in a lynch or lose situation come Morning . :::sigh::: I hope my death post will give you the additional information you will need to find scum.

[Hockey Monkey]

No, it won't. I won't get a juicy death post. I was so looking forward to a juicy death post too. :(

[Hawkeyeop]

It's likely that there's 2 scum left. There's 7 people still playing - which means 5 town. If Faith is town, we need all 4 of us active townies to vote together.


There five scum originally and three killed, so it is definite that there are two left. I don't like lynching Hockey, but will vote for her if we need a majority. After all, I was wrong on Hazel, so I could be wrong on Hockey as well. I agree a no lynch should be avoided.

I am concerned about Faith though. Assuming she is town, if we end up a lynch or lose scenario, and she isn't around to vote, we can't win. A mod kill would have more or less the same affect though. A substitute may be order, but as Naf said, it is a bit late for that.

My current list from most scummy to least.

1. Sach
2. Brewha
3. Pleo
4. Rysto
5. Hockey
6. Faith

[brewha]

Non official vote count:

Hockey Monkey (3) - Pleonast, Rysto, Brewha
Sachertorte* (1) - Hawkeyeop
Rysto (1) - Hockey Monkey

Yet to vote - Faithfool, Sachertorte.




*apologies to sach as I believe this is the first time I've actually checked to see if I had been spelling his name correctly - I hadn't til this post :smack:

[Hawkeyeop]

No, it won't. I won't get a juicy death post. I was so looking forward to a juicy death post too. :(

Why wouldn't you? You can have an epic death even if you are lynched. just ask Dio.

[Mtgman]

The only thing you will learn from lynching me is that I'm town, and you will be in a lynch or lose situation come Morning . :::sigh::: I hope my death post will give you the additional information you will need to find scum.
Everyone gets a death post, if they want one. It's just people killed at Night that get extra info to reveal. If you want a death post, as Diomedes did, you can have one. Written by yourself, or someone else.

Enjoy,
Steven

[Rysto]

Hockey Monkey once drove a VW Bug through the front door of a 7/11. OAOW shared this trait. I think we can safely say OAOW was the first killer and not Hockey. Sach was alone on the pig trait.
Refresh my memory: what was the other clue from the second killer? The pig one and what?

[Hawkeyeop]

Refresh my memory: what was the other clue from the second killer? The pig one and what?

Nevermind, you are right. I was looking at the dossiers chart and saw one that Hockey's shared with OAOW. I figured it was one of the first two revealed, and forgot that OAOW traits kept coming up after he was lynched.

Okay lets hope you are right.

unvote Sach
Vote Hockey Monkey

[Hockey Monkey]

Rugger - killed by VW bug person

Cookies - killed by VW bug person, Washington monument sex haver

ShadowFacts - killed by cow udder eater

Kat - killed by cow udder eater, VW bug driver, (Thanks! person?)

Story - rabbit trainer, sicilian

Hal - rabbit trainer, Gay rights

zuma - rabbit trainer, soviet bomb dumper

on preview, I see I've wasted my time.

[Hawkeyeop]

Rugger - killed by VW bug person

Cookies - killed by VW bug person, Washington monument sex haver

ShadowFacts - killed by cow udder eater

Kat - killed by cow udder eater, VW bug driver, (Thanks! person?)

Story - rabbit trainer, sicilian

Hal - rabbit trainer, Gay rights

zuma - rabbit trainer, soviet bomb dumper

on preview, I see I've wasted my time.

So VW bug was the new trait twice? I didn't really think I had a choice on the vote. With Sach and Faith not voting, it will be nearly impossible to get to a majority on any other candidate.

[Hockey Monkey]

Just promise to re-visit my hairbrained theories when I'm dead. I know that lynching mw is better than no lynch at all, but I'm the wrong person. Don't make me break out the 72 point font!

[Hockey Monkey]

Unvote Rysto

Vote Sachertorte

because lynching him is better than a mod-kill.

[Hawkeyeop]

Anyone else for Sach? I'm happy to switch back.

[sachertorte]

One more point on Sach. His vote broke the tie between Hazel and Dio day 5. While Brewha caused the lynch, at that point, his vote was more voting Dio over a no lynch. Sach chose to put Dio on the brink of lynch rather then Hazel.
The evidence against HazelNutCoffee at the time primarily consisted of Pleonast's math analysis of voting, which I didn't accept as a good reason to vote for HazelNutCoffee. Pleonast turned out to be correct, but I view his analysis as coincidental rather than evident of HazelNutCoffee's alignment.
I voted for Diomedes because I was more suspicious of Diomedes.
That I broke the tie is a function of when I logged in to post and who voted before me.

[Hawkeyeop]

The evidence against HazelNutCoffee at the time primarily consisted of Pleonast's math analysis of voting, which I didn't accept as a good reason to vote for HazelNutCoffee. Pleonast turned out to be correct, but I view his analysis as coincidental rather than evident of HazelNutCoffee's alignment.
I voted for Diomedes because I was more suspicious of Diomedes.
That I broke the tie is a function of when I logged in to post and who voted before me.

Sach, would you like to get a vote on the record? Are you still most suspicious of Brewha?

[Pleonast]

I mostly happy with my vote for Hockey. No one else really strikes me as more suspicious than anyone else.

I'm not willing to vote for someone for one Dossier item that matches the killer. I know the match with me is a false lead. I suspect that the scum lied about their Dossier and have likely killed those of us who have not matched their Dossiers. So I'm actually slightly more suspicious of those who do not have the killer's trait at this point in the game.

For posterity, if I don't make it through the Night, here are my gut-check assessments of everyone:

Most Likely scum
Hockey: most suspicious, based on my vote analysis.

Likely scum
Rysto: Has some opportunistic votes. Not enough to make him top of the list, but I know there's another scum out there.
sach: Similar to Rysto. Some votes look interesting.
Hawkeye: has seemed pro-Town to me, but it makes me suspicious now. In the end game, have to keep an eye out for scum who've played an excellent game.

Unlikely scum
faith: not scummy, based on the Hal's secret.
brewha: least scummy. I can't see how he could be scum, from the voting patterns.

[Hockey Monkey]

I mostly happy with my vote for Hockey. No one else really strikes me as more suspicious than anyone else.

I'm not willing to vote for someone for one Dossier item that matches the killer. I know the match with me is a false lead. I suspect that the scum lied about their Dossier and have likely killed those of us who have not matched their Dossiers. So I'm actually slightly more suspicious of those who do not have the killer's trait at this point in the game.

For posterity, if I don't make it through the Night, here are my gut-check assessments of everyone:

Most Likely scum
Hockey: most suspicious, based on my vote analysis.

Likely scum
Rysto: Has some opportunistic votes. Not enough to make him top of the list, but I know there's another scum out there.
sach: Similar to Rysto. Some votes look interesting.
Hawkeye: has seemed pro-Town to me, but it makes me suspicious now. In the end game, have to keep an eye out for scum who've played an excellent game.

Unlikely scum
faith: not scummy, based on the Hal's secret.
brewha: least scummy. I can't see how he could be scum, from the voting patterns.

Your vote analysis that no one can understand but you? :rolleyes:

[Pleonast]

Your vote analysis that no one can understand but you? :rolleyes:It makes perfect sense to me. ;) And plenty of people understood it well enough when it was Hazel. At least I'm trying.

[NAF1138]

Work is crazy today guys. I will do my best to keep up, but this might be the last vote count before the Day ends. Sorry.

3 - Hocky Monkey (Pleo, brewha, Hawk)

1 - Sachertorte (Hockey Monkey)

It takes 4 votes to make the lynch thing happen. The day ends in about 90 minutes. (Noon my time)

Go Team!

[sachertorte]

I've been reading as much as I can during lunch. It seems that Hockey Monkey is on the brink of lynching. I'm still trying to figure out why.

I haven't been considering Hockey Monkey as potential scum for one main reason: The Dossier Spreadsheet.
While I've argued against dossiers from the beginning and still think there is potential harm in relying on private traits to make lynch decisions, the amount of work that went into making the Dossier spreadsheet is not trivial and a pro-town action. I just don't see scum putting that much work into it. I was slightly suspicious of Hockey Monkey when she went all out to use the dossiers to motivate her vote on Day One, but since then she hasn't pushed that agenda and turned out to be right about OAOW (possibly coincidence). It's very sucky of me to pull an eleventh hour protest of the prevailing lynch winds. I acknowledge that I've been a very bad player this Day. I also have a nagging feeling in the back of my head that putting a bunch of effort into something like the spreadsheet is a good way for scum to look town, especially one and done effort like the spreadsheet. But even if I accept that premise, I don't understand the reasoning people are using to vote for Hockey Monkey.

My thoughts on brewha are muddied at best. Before storyteller died, I was growing suspicious of storyteller; but my suspicion hinged on brewha being scum. When storyteller died I questioned my suspicion of brewha even though storyteller being Town didn't necessarily make brewha Town. The same thing happened with zuma. I was getting more and more suspicious of zuma, but that suspicion all hinged on brewha being scum. Again, zuma being Town doesn't necessarily make brewha Town, but the factors give me doubts about my feeling that brewha is scum. Furthermore, zuma was correct that at least one of HazelNutCoffee and brewha is scum. The question is: are both scum? To me the evidence against brewha includes Day 1 shenanigans (which I'm now discounting) the Day 3 no-lynch and the Day 5 Diomedes lynch. Knowing that HazelNutCoffee is scum lessens the pressure on brewha in my opinion.

So who do I think is scum?
Hawkeyeop's attacks on me strike me as convoluted and opportunistic. More research into hawkeyeop is warranted. Since I'm not feeling the Hockey Monkey vote, and another vote on Hockey Monkey ends the Day instantly, I'll vote for who I want in the hotseat Tomorrow:

vote hawkeyeop

[Hawkeyeop]

Work is crazy today guys. I will do my best to keep up, but this might be the last vote count before the Day ends. Sorry.

3 - Hocky Monkey (Pleo, brewha, Hawk)

1 - Sachertorte (Hockey Monkey)

It takes 4 votes to make the lynch thing happen. The day ends in about 90 minutes. (Noon my time)

Go Team!



Naf,

I think you missed Rysto's vote.

[sachertorte]

Rut-roh. Did I miscount or did NAF? I think Rysto is voting for Hockey Monkey.

[Rysto]

NAF, you missed my vote for Hockey Monkey. She's on the clock.

[Rysto]

I voted way back in 1555, and I haven't changed my vote since. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9463731&postcount=1555)

[Hockey Monkey]

Since you put in some analysis, and hawkeyeop was all itching to vote for you again when I did,

Unvote sachertorte

Vote Hawkeyeop My reason for doing this is a blatant attempt to save my ass because I know I'm not scum. Sach has a good reason, and I'm willing to roll with it.

[Hawkeyeop]

Since you put in some analysis, and hawkeyeop was all itching to vote for you again when I did,

Unvote sachertorte

Vote Hawkeyeop My reason for doing this is a blatant attempt to save my ass because I know I'm not scum. Sach has a good reason, and I'm willing to roll with it.

You find trying to get you off the clock scummy?

[Hockey Monkey]

Not in the least, just didn't want to vote without a reason. :p

[NAF1138]

I voted way back in 1555, and I haven't changed my vote since. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9463731&postcount=1555)

Ya know, I saw the request for a mod poke and that's where my eyes stopped. Sorry about that.

Vote count is updated, Hockey has 4 votes on her.

Hawk has 2, sach and Hockey.

No clock since the Day ends before the clock would.

[Hockey Monkey]

I've got a meeting in about 5 minutes so I most likely will miss the deadline. I hope I come back to find I'm not dead...but if I am, just go back and read the dossiers, and my posts.

[brewha]

refresh...

nothing from NAF

refresh...

nothing from NAF


refresh...

nothing from NAF


refresh...

nothing from NAF


refresh...

nothing from NAF


F5 falls off. :(

[NAF1138]

Day is over. I can't post a good Night start right now, but

Hockey Monkey - an associate

has been killed.

Color to come in the next hour or two. (Because I really feel bad about neglecting the color, and there will be color for this death dammit!)

[brewha]

ah feck!

feck feck feck.

[Hawkeyeop]

F5 refreshes? Good to know.

Oh crap.. Well at least I wasn't really wrong twice in a row.. Now we got to go 2 for 2.

[Hockey Monkey]

:p That's the first time I've ever been lynched. Please refrain from doing that again!

Go Town! (But kudos to the scum for their great game.)

[Pleonast]

Dang it!:p That's the first time I've ever been lynched. Please refrain from doing that again!Sure, sure. Next time you really will be scum. :p

[Rysto]

Goddamnit. Could I be any worse at this game?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Goddamnit. Could I be any worse at this game?

You've refrained from cage-dancing until this point. That's a point in your favor, I suppose?

[NAF1138]

Also, a heads up to everyone. I still haven't heard from faithfool. She has said that she is having internet troubles, but if I don't hear something from her by the end of the Night (almost 10 Days since her last post) she is going to have to be mod killed. It's the way of the world.

Just a public announcement so no one can say there wasn't fair warning.

Sach, you missed a similar fate by a hair. Do try to post a little bit in the comming days.

This goes to everyone. If you are having some real life issue that is preventing you from posting please do your best to either post to the game, or PM me or Mtgman about it.


Color for the Night is still on it's way.

[Hawkeyeop]

Also, a heads up to everyone. I still haven't heard from faithfool. She has said that she is having internet troubles, but if I don't hear something from her by the end of the Night (almost 10 Days since her last post) she is going to have to be mod killed. It's the way of the world.

Just a public announcement so no one can say there wasn't fair warning.

Sach, you missed a similar fate by a hair. Do try to post a little bit in the comming days.

This goes to everyone. If you are having some real life issue that is preventing you from posting please do your best to either post to the game, or PM me or Mtgman about it.


Color for the Night is still on it's way.

Naf, if you modkill faith and she is town, doesn't the town automatically lose?

[Rysto]

Naf, if you modkill faith and she is town, doesn't the town automatically lose?
Sadly, yes.

[Hockey Monkey]

See I told you not to kill me.


















:p

[faithfool]

Crud! I don't know what to do!! I'm still having to do without and wouldn't have been able to wrangle this post if I hadn't had a friend actually call me to tell me what was happening with the game. Geez guys, I'm so very, very sorry. Ever since my brother passed away in August, I've spent lots of time back home taking care of some stuff with his family. Needless to say, there's been lots of stuff keeping me there dealing with issues and away from home where I still have constant internet access.

Anyway, enough about that. The Purveyor of the Laptop has left it with me for a few hours so that I don't make the town lose, so I'll stick around as long as I can. On top of everything else that's been going on, I'm obviously really lost here. If someone would push me in a (quick?) direction, I'd be more than happy to try and do something right. :(

Again, I apologize for how this all has worked out. Due to circumstances, this has at least taught me not to play in anything else that might be time consuming since I'll never know for certain if an emergency will come up.

[Hawkeyeop]

Crud! I don't know what to do!! I'm still having to do without and wouldn't have been able to wrangle this post if I hadn't had a friend actually call me to tell me what was happening with the game. Geez guys, I'm so very, very sorry. Ever since my brother passed away in August, I've spent lots of time back home taking care of some stuff with his family. Needless to say, there's been lots of stuff keeping me there dealing with issues and away from home where I still have constant internet access.

Anyway, enough about that. The Purveyor of the Laptop has left it with me for a few hours so that I don't make the town lose, so I'll stick around as long as I can. On top of everything else that's been going on, I'm obviously really lost here. If someone would push me in a (quick?) direction, I'd be more than happy to try and do something right. :(

Again, I apologize for how this all has worked out. Due to circumstances, this has at least taught me not to play in anything else that might be time consuming since I'll never know for certain if an emergency will come up.

Don't worry about it too much. It is only a game, and if we lose, we lose. Then we can start the next game sooner :) Certainly family issues take priority.

[faithfool]

Thank you Hawkeyeop. It's just I've had so many problems in the recent years of my life that I hate, hate, hate to not be able to keep my word if at all possible. I appreciate you all's understanding.

[NAF1138]

Crud! I don't know what to do!! I'm still having to do without and wouldn't have been able to wrangle this post if I hadn't had a friend actually call me to tell me what was happening with the game. Geez guys, I'm so very, very sorry. Ever since my brother passed away in August, I've spent lots of time back home taking care of some stuff with his family. Needless to say, there's been lots of stuff keeping me there dealing with issues and away from home where I still have constant internet access.

Anyway, enough about that. The Purveyor of the Laptop has left it with me for a few hours so that I don't make the town lose, so I'll stick around as long as I can. On top of everything else that's been going on, I'm obviously really lost here. If someone would push me in a (quick?) direction, I'd be more than happy to try and do something right. :(

Again, I apologize for how this all has worked out. Due to circumstances, this has at least taught me not to play in anything else that might be time consuming since I'll never know for certain if an emergency will come up.

What Hawk said. It's only a game. This late in the game I can't sub you. So if you think you can spare a couple of hours to get caught up and post in the next 7 Days, that is great.

If you can't, you can't. Worst things have happened.

I have to leave for a good portion of the evening now. But I am going to do my damnedest to get some color posted tonight.

See you in a bit.

[dotchan]

Bumping from the Peanut Gallery to wallow in self-pity about how slow the off-site game (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/) is going. I feel like the worst mod ever... :(

[NAF1138]

Bumping from the Peanut Gallery to wallow in self-pity about how slow the off-site game (http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/) is going. I feel like the worst mod ever... :(

Don't worry, Dot, you are doing fine over there. PM me if you ever want to commiserate on the woes of modding mafia games.

Sorry about the lack of color Hockey. but the scum have selected a Night kill and I still have no time to really write something up for you. If you would like to submit some ideas to me, I will be happy to post a death scene of your choosing.

Brewha - associate

is dead.


Here is the current player list.

faithfool
Hawkeyeop
Pleonast
Rysto
sachertorte

It's lynch or lose for the town. And will take 3 votes to secure a lynch, 4 votes to end the Day instantly.

You have 7 Days from this post.

[Pleonast]

Down to the wire. Continuing the vote counts...

Day 1

Mhaye (10): OAOW, zuma, brewha, freudian slit, Diomedes, Hawkeyeop, Kat, Cookies, Pleonast, Hockey Monkey
zuma (4): sachertorte, Mhaye, Hal Briston, HazelNutCoffee
Diomedes (1): storyteller
Hal(1): faithfool
brewha (1): shadowfacts
No Vote (1): Rysto

Day 2

Day 2 votes in correct order... I'm not sure there's much to be gleaned from day 2, for when Cookies revealed the killer's trait, a OAOW lynch was inevitable.
However, I thought I'd list the pre-revelation vote count:
brewha (2): shadowfacts, Hockey Monkey
faithfool (2): Diomedes, Pleonast
Diomedes (1): faithfool

Here's the end of day vote count:
OAOW (10): Hal, Hawkeyeop, sachertorte, shadowfacts, freudian slit, Kat, Hockey Monkey, faithfool, Diomedes, OAOW
Diomedes (1): Rysto
No Vote (5): brewha, Hazel, zuma, story, Pleonast

The only things to note were that Pleonast placed the 5th vote on OAOW, then unvoted because he said he didn't want to end the day early. Diomedes placed the 9th vote (I think we've discussed that one), and OAOW self-hammered the 10th vote to end the day instantly. Rysto said he placed his vote on Diomedes because of Diomedes's 9th vote.

Day 3

Day 3 vote counts: (This was the no-lynch day - Brewha was 1 vote short of majority)
brewha (7): sach, Hockey Monkey, Hawkeyeop, fruedian slit, Rysto, Hal, Pleonast
faithfool (2): Diomedes, zuma
Diomedes (2): faithfool, kat
Hawkeyeop(1): Brewha
No Vote (2): HazelNutCoffee, storyteller

Day 4

Here was the state of voting before story laid out his case against Fruedian Slit if anyone is interested:
brewha (6): Hockey Monkey, freudian slit, hawkeyeop, sachertorte, Diomedes, faithfool
faithfool (2): Pleonast, zuma
Diomedes (1): HazelNutCoffee
Not yet voted: Rysto, storyteller, brewha, Hal

And the final vote count in the correct order:
Freudian Slit (8): storyteller, brewha, zuma, Diomedes, sachertorte, rysto, hawkeyeop, faithfool
brewha (3): Hockey Monkey, Freudian Slit, Pleonast
Diomedes (2): HazelNutCoffee, Hal

Day 5

Hazel: Pleo, Diomedes, zuma, Hockey Monkey
brewha: faithfool
Diomedes: Hazel, Rysto, Hawkeye, Hal, sach, brewha

Day 6

HazelNutCoffee: Pleo, zuma, brewha, Rysto, Hockey
brewha: hawk, sach, faithfool
No Vote: Hazel

Day 7

Hockey Monkey: Pleo, Rysto, brewha, Hawk, sach (not certain about order)
Sachertorte: Hockey Monkey
No Vote: faith

[Pleonast]

Not sure how much these help, but I want to look over them, so might as well post 'em.

faith
1st Hal (Single)
8th OaOW (Lynch, Hammer)
1st Diomedes
8th Freud (Lynch, Post-Hammer)
1st brewha (Single)
3rd brewha
(No Vote)

Hawkeye
6th MHaye (Lynch)
2nd OaOW (Lynch)
3rd brewha
7th Freud (Lynch, Hammer)
3rd Diomedes (Lynch)
1st brewha
Hockey (Lynch)

Pleonast
9th MHaye (Lynch)
(No Vote)
7th brewha
3rd brewha
1st Hazel
1st Hazel (Lynch)
Hockey (Lynch)

Rysto
(No Vote)
1st Diomedes (Single)
5th brewha
6th Freud (Lynch)
2nd Diomedes (Lynch)
4th Hazel (Lynch)
Hockey (Lynch)

sach
1st zuma
3rd OaOW (Lynch)
1st brewha
5th Freud (Lynch)
5th Diomedes (Lynch)
3rd brewha
Hockey (Lynch)

[Rysto]

I may well miss the end of this Day, guys. I will be skiing next week. It's not booked yet, so I don't know when I'll be gone. When I know my schedule I'll let you know.

It's lynch or lose, which means that all three townies must vote together. And if two townies mis-vote, the two scum can insta-hammer and win the game. Be very wary before placing a vote.

I'm going to take a real long look at faithfool. Her voting record is awful, and with Hockey turning up town, I don't think that a single scum was on that initial bandwagon. That makes me very suspicious.

I also have to say that I'm very surprised to see that Pleonast is still alive. Was it just me, or did everybody seem to trust that he was town? Why didn't the scum eliminate him? It's in their interest to kill off the most trusted townies.

[Hawkeyeop]

Not sure how much these help, but I want to look over them, so might as well post 'em.

faith
1st Hal (Single)
8th OaOW (Lynch, Hammer)
1st Diomedes
8th Freud (Lynch, Post-Hammer)
1st brewha (Single)
3rd brewha
(No Vote)

Hawkeye
6th MHaye (Lynch)
2nd OaOW (Lynch)
3rd brewha
7th Freud (Lynch, Hammer)
3rd Diomedes (Lynch)
1st brewha
Hockey (Lynch)

Pleonast
9th MHaye (Lynch)
(No Vote)
7th brewha
3rd brewha
1st Hazel
1st Hazel (Lynch)
Hockey (Lynch)

Rysto
(No Vote)
1st Diomedes (Single)
5th brewha
6th Freud (Lynch)
2nd Diomedes (Lynch)
4th Hazel (Lynch)
Hockey (Lynch)

sach
1st zuma
3rd OaOW (Lynch)
1st brewha
5th Freud (Lynch)
5th Diomedes (Lynch)
3rd brewha
Hockey (Lynch)

Hey, everyone's final vote was on scum twice. How symmetrical. This isn't going to be easy, even if we can figure out who the last 2 scum are. We need all three town members to agree, and be able to post, or we lose. My current order of suspicion is.

Sach
Rysto
Pleo
Faith

I will not vote until Brewha's death post comes in though.

Sorry Brewha. I was right on Hockey atleast…

[Pleonast]

I also have to say that I'm very surprised to see that Pleonast is still alive. Was it just me, or did everybody seem to trust that he was town? Why didn't the scum eliminate him? It's in their interest to kill off the most trusted townies.I was more surprised that I survived the Night after we got Hazel. If they didn't kill me after that, well, I didn't do so hot going after Hockey. I need to see if my vote analysis comes up with a clear answer, but I'm not sure it's enough to base a vote on. I'm more tempted to look at the Dossiers now. They may be killing us off based on our traits somehow.

[Pleonast]

I'll step through the different Days and comment on each player. With two scum left among the four of you, I gots 50-50 odds.

Day 1: You each voted differently. The three of you who voted for a player, voted for a Townie. Rysto didn't vote for anyone. I think that makes Rysto the most suspicious of that Day.

Day 2: You all voted for OAOW, while Rysto voted for Diomedes. Another bad mark for him.

Day 3: You all voted for brewha, while faithfool voted Diomedes. I'm tempted to think this is a good mark for faith. I think the brewha vote was dominated by scum.

Day 4: You all voted for Freud, and were in fact the last four voters! Hawkeye was the hammer, and faith jumped on after. I'll count that as a bad mark for faith.

Day 5: You all voted for Diomedes, except for faithfool who went for brewha. Not sure what to make of this.

Day 6: You all voted for brewha, except for Rysto who followed me on Hazel. And everyone else who voted for Hazel is now a dead Townie. Is Rysto a Scum who put a vote on Hazel to break up the block on brewha? Or was he a Townie voting with the rest of us? Based on how the story vote went (where I know two Scum jumped on the wagon), I'm inclined to say Scum.

Day 7: You all voted for Hockey, except for faith who didn't vote. Whatever faith's alignment, I believe his real life problems prevented a vote. No tell.

Looking over the Days, I now see exactly why I am still alive--every Day, you four voted in a block, with one of you not in the block. That fact totally screws my previous method of analysis. :smack:

But based on a Day by Day look, I think I rank you guys from most scummy to not:
Rysto
sach == Hawkeye
faith

My vote would be on Rysto at this point, but I won't place it yet. I'm equally suspicious of sach and Hawkeye. I'm not seeing faith as Scum right now. And brewha's clue may change my mind.

[Rysto]

Day 1: You each voted differently. The three of you who voted for a player, voted for a Townie. Rysto didn't vote for anyone. I think that makes Rysto the most suspicious of that Day.
Now come on, I explained that. I was right at the end of my exam period, I lost a day traveling and I spent the next day Christmas shopping. I got caught up with an hour to go with MHaye already at the required majority. I let you all know well ahead of Day 1 that I would not be able to participate much.

Day 2: You all voted for OAOW, while Rysto voted for Diomedes. Another bad mark for him.
I wasn't going to insta-hammer OAOW. That bandwagon was giving me awful flashbacks to the Autolycus lynch in M2. Unanimous rushes to judgment scare the crap out of me.

[Pleonast]

I wasn't going to insta-hammer OAOW. That bandwagon was giving me awful flashbacks to the Autolycus lynch in M2. Unanimous rushes to judgment scare the crap out of me.Me, too. That's why I unvoted OAOW. But why did you vote for Dio?

Anything to say about your vote for Hazel on Day 6? Do you want to present an argument for lynching someone else?

[Rysto]

Me, too. That's why I unvoted OAOW. But why did you vote for Dio?
I was expressing my displeasure that he put OAOW on the clock.

Anything to say about your vote for Hazel on Day 6?
What? Now I need to justify voting for scum, too? Would you prefer that I had voted for brewha? I think that my reasons for voting Hazel are pretty clear.

Of course, Hockey Monkey's lynch has shown that my case was crap, but my reasons for voting for Hazel are a matter of record.

Do you want to present an argument for lynching someone else?
I want to, but I want to pass Networks more. I'm afraid that this game will have to wait.

[Pleonast]

Anyone?

[Hawkeyeop]

Anyone?

I'm generally waiting for Brewha at this point. I think Sach is scum. I don't think Faith is scum. I'm torn between you and Rysto, but leaning towards Rysto.

[brewha]

Just cause I like to argue with you Hawkeye - you're waiting on Mtgman, not me. :D
He has my lame death scene and is presumably checking it over.

It's been fun and I'm actually relieved to have been killed by scum. I do not envy the remaining town and the decisions that you have to make.

Good luck town!
Rot in Hell Scum!
:D

[Hawkeyeop]

Just cause I like to argue with you Hawkeye - you're waiting on Mtgman, not me. :D
He has my lame death scene and is presumably checking it over.

It's been fun and I'm actually relieved to have been killed by scum. I do not envy the remaining town and the decisions that you have to make.

Good luck town!
Rot in Hell Scum!
:D

I had a friend in college whose beliefs were, pretty much across the board, the polar opposite of mine. We both tended to be fairly outspoken, so throughout the years, we argued about any topic that would come up. We had one memorable exchange towards the end recapping a previous discuss on amending the constitution of an extracurricular organization.

Him "Joel (my actual name) and I disagreed on everything."
Me "That's not true."

Took me a few seconds to realize why everyone was laughing.

[Mtgman]

And now, a musical interlude.

These eyes
arrrreeee glazin
these eyes have seen a lotta death
but they're never gonna see another death
like they have with brew
ha ha ha ha
These eyes
AAAARRRRRRRREEEE glazin...."After the devastating truth that I had a major role in killing a fellow townie, I felt like a drink. I moseyed into the pub and ordered a Blue Lagoon and proceeded to talk to the bartender. I thought it was odd that a fellow employee was serving drinks at this resort, but I was thirsty and thought nothing else of it. The barkeep and I chatted it up to pass the time until I was drunk enough to put this whole HockeyMonkey nonsense behind me. The bar was empty except for the barkeep and I. I guess after the day’s events no one else wanted to leave their room. After my 4th refill, I noticed this rather strange almond flavor. I figured the barkeep must've put too much almaretto in my drink and proceeded to sip away. The lights started dimming around me and I noticed my arms and legs going numb. I lost my balance and fell backward off my barstool. As I lay on my back - unable to speak - I thought to myself that I shouldn't be this drunk off 4 drinks. That's when it dawned on me that there shouldn't be any almaretto in a Blue Lagoon...

Then again, there shouldn't be cyanide either...

Although completely paralyzed, I was still conscious as the barkeep grabbed me to drag me out of the bar. The last thing I heard as I lost consciousness was the music in the ear of my killer. I could clearly hear the Ipod softly playing very soothing music – it was ‘Sand and Water (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001227FS0/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk4?ie=UTF8&qid=1202924190&sr=8-3)’ by Beth Nielsen Chapman. "Enjoy,
Steven

[Rysto]

This is a new killer. Unless this clue matches one of faithfool's traits, this confirms her as a Townie.

Which blows yet another of my theories completely out of the water.

[Rysto]

Here's the song (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zaoYkCPUN8)
Here are the lyrics. (http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/nielsen-chapman-beth/sand-and-water-14861.html)

[Pleonast]

What's the trait the clue is referring to? I'm at a loss.

[Hawkeyeop]

Here are the traits of the people still alive.

Pleonast 1 I am scared of moths.
Pleonast (public) 1 I had my last cat, Clawdia, professionally preserved and she sits in my bedroom.
Pleonast 1 I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles.
Pleonast 1 I was once bitten by a wild animal while visiting Dollywood.
Pleonast 1 I've wandered and built on an old, live Soviet bomb dump.
Pleonast 1 My mother was a former NFL cheerleader.
faithfool (public) 5 I believe the Honda Element is a good-looking car.
faithfool 5 I enjoy practicing the cello.
faithfool 5 I have been shot in the head with a muzzleloading .45 caliber pistol and in leg with a bow and arrow.
faithfool 5 I have performed an exorcism.
faithfool 5 I provided a line in a song that became a top 20 hit for the band Traffic.
faithfool 5 I voted for a boy for prom queen.
Rysto 6 Farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.
Rysto 6 I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.
Rysto 6 I believe the cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.
Rysto 6 I started a forest fire by playing with matches.
Rysto 6 I was in a biker movie.
sachertorte 13 I got an autograph from Billy Crystal on top of the World Trade Center.
sachertorte 13 I have gone to Disney World 3 times and Disneyland at least 5 times
sachertorte 13 I watched as over 30 people jumped out of an airborne aircraft.
sachertorte 13 I've been a model appearing on the cover of a nationwide catalog.
sachertorte (public) 13 I've climbed to the top chamber of Cheops.
sachertorte 13 I've eaten grilled cow udder more than once.
Hawkeyeop (public) 17 I have performed an exorcism.
Hawkeyeop 17 I speak Swahili.
Hawkeyeop 17 I was in a biker movie.
Hawkeyeop 17 I've been a model appearing on the cover of a nationwide catalog
Hawkeyeop 17 I've been on the cover of a Chicago area phone book.
Hawkeyeop 17 I've bowled two perfect 300 games

[Rysto]

I've tried googling and it doesn't seem that Sand and Water has any cello music in it; nor can I find any connection between Traffic and Beth Chapman.

It's possible that this trait was unique to the scum and they lied about their dossier. If nobody can decipher this clue then I think that we should pass on faithfool for toDay and focus on the rest of us. If we can find scum today we can get another clue tomorrow that might definitively clear faithfool; if we can't find the other scum we lose anyway.

[Pleonast]

So, the good news is faith is quite likely to be Town. The bad news is faith is not around to vote. Does this mean we're screwed?

[Rysto]

So, the good news is faith is quite likely to be Town. The bad news is faith is not around to vote. Does this mean we're screwed?
If faith is Town and can't vote, then we almost certainly lose. faith, it'd be really great if you could stop in at the library a couple times to keep up. Even if it's only for a minute to throw out a vote. If you can't, though, well, it's only a game.

[Pleonast]

Ok, so here's what we need to do to have a shot at this.
1) Everyone give their opinion on everyone else. With reasons, if possible.
2) Once the rest of us have something out, Faith can read through and then post his own opinions.
3) We need to decide who to vote for, without actually voting.
4) Actually vote.
5) Wait for verdict for the mods.
6) Repeat Tomorrow.

[Hawkeyeop]

Well, here we go. I prefer not to use reasoning like this, but the hour the late and my buddy Brewha is counting on me. I’m going to go heavily into macro game reasons here for it is imperative, at this point, that the other two town members not only not vote for me, but vote with me. We can still win, but we need to play this exactly right.

First off, I’m assuming that Faithfool is not scum. We know she didn’t lie about her dossier, so unless the last clue revealed can be connected to her, she cannot be scum. It is unlikely that Hal would have been given the dossier of a scum anyway, so I’ll consider her town. If I’m wrong here, we lose.

Next, I’m not scum. I don’t ask you to take my word for it, but hope you would take Naf’s. Anyone following the off board game knows that Naf attacked me early because of “my tone”. Now, his argument was off base, but that does not matter here. For in order for him to make the argument, I would have to be town in this game. Here is his explanation for his vote.

Sure there is. But I can't fully explain what it is without breaking the game you are currently alive in. Mostly it is your tone. I either think it is too similar to the way you are playing the other game or too different...I don't really want to say which. Can you blame me?”
Naf tried to not reveal who I was in this game, but I don’t think he succeeded. This took place on page 1 of the game. If I’m scum in this game, Naf would have no idea how I would sound if I was town. It is unrealistic for someone to make the argument that someone’s first few posts sound exactly that person always has, therefore they are scum. On the other hand, if he knew I was town in this game, I could see an early “change of tone” as causing a vote.

http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=rottk&action=display&thread=1201030708&page=1 You can read my posts if you like and see if the tone seems different to you. Or you can go by what other posters say. For example, Roosh stated “Hawk's tone IS very different from his other game.” I think it is clear that Naf meant my tone changed.

So hopefully step 2 worked. Step 3 is to pick out a scum. On the bright side, assuming I was right on Faithfool, I have a 2/3 chance of being right here. I’m going to stick with voting for Sach. His just doesn’t seem that determined to find scum. His attitude seems similar to that of Hazel and OAOW before they were lynched. We are in desperation time, and if you aren’t playing desperately, I get suspicious. I’m torn between Rysto and Pleo. I lean towards Rysto, due to his defense of Sach and his sharing a dossier trait with me, but I don’t believe it will be my decision to make.

Step 4:

Faithfool,

If you believe, me please vote with me today. If you are still alive the last day, and town, you will likely need to pick between Rysto and Pleo. Listen to their arguments and do your best.

Sach,

Sorry if you are town and I just ensured our loss.

Rysto and Pleo,

Whichever of you is town, vote with me. Then do your best to convince Faith or I that you are town on the last day.

'Crosses Fingers'

Vote Sach

[Pleonast]

Hawkeye, I never find meta-game arguments convincing. It's too easy for scum to manipulate them to their benefit (wine-in-front-of-me setups). I'm also fairly deaf when it comes to the "tone" of players' posts. I'm the more analytic type. So I don't find your claim of Towniness to be especially persuasive.

I see faith as nigh-confirmed Town, and Rysto as likely scum. So I need to decide between you and sach. Yet instead of putting out an argument for sach's scumminess, you instead assert your Towniness with an argument that's not useful for me. And you vote, knowing the risks of a bad vote at this point.

You've not reduced my skepticism of your motives. But at least you have something. Rysto, sach would you two put forth arguments?

[Hawkeyeop]

Hawkeye, I never find meta-game arguments convincing. It's too easy for scum to manipulate them to their benefit (wine-in-front-of-me setups). I'm also fairly deaf when it comes to the "tone" of players' posts. I'm the more analytic type. So I don't find your claim of Towniness to be especially persuasive.

I see faith as nigh-confirmed Town, and Rysto as likely scum. So I need to decide between you and sach. Yet instead of putting out an argument for sach's scumminess, you instead assert your Towniness with an argument that's not useful for me. And you vote, knowing the risks of a bad vote at this point.

You've not reduced my skepticism of your motives. But at least you have something. Rysto, sach would you two put forth arguments?

Fair enough. I believe it was the only shot I had, so I took it. Like I said, the town members need to vote together or the town loses. If we are both town, but you vote for Rysto, and I vote for Sach, we could lose.

Just to be clear I was not making a tone argument. I was making a "Naf would only of done what he did if he knew I was town in this game" argument. I won't dispute it was a metagame argument, and that I have gotten burned by those earlier this game.

On not making an argument against Sach, here is the thing. If everyone is right about Faith being town, all I need to do is convince the third town member that I'm not scum. For example, if you aren't scum, then Rysto and Sach are. In that scenario, I don't need to explain to you why Sach is scum. If Faith is not scum, and I'm not scum, and the third town member believes this, then by process of elimination, he will know who the scum are. I also don't really see the point of having a consensus with a group of people, assuming Faith won't be part of the arguments, who are half scum. I pretty much believe I'm on my own in picking out who is scum. I did briefly go into why I picked Sach though, and had longer arguments yesterday.

Finally, I don't find voting risky at this point. We need four votes for an instant lynch, which means everyone would have to agree on the same target. I find that highly unlikely.

[sachertorte]

This is totally messed up and serves as a MAJOR example of why discussing other ongoing games is an extremely bad idea.

I know Hawkeyeop's alignment in the Three Kingdoms Game.
We all know that NAF knew Hawkeyeop's alignment in this game.

Now I know Hawkeyeop's alignment in this game through circumstances that should never have happened. But if I state what I know, I reveal Hawekeyeop's alignment in the Three Kingdom's game.

Damn it. I'm going to assume that hawkeyeops posts in this game constitute a sufficient confession (Sorry DBI).
I believe Hawkeyeop is Town in this game. But Pleonast and Rysto already know that.

So, hawkeyeop, you've succeed in convincing the non-faithfool townie that you are not scum: But only because I have knowledge that shouldn't be applied to this game.

Vote Rysto

[Pleonast]

Keep turning the statements sach and Hawkeye over in my mind, trying to figure out who's lying. Just getting a headache instead. :D

Six possible cases of who's scum:

1) Hawkeye and Rysto. Hawkeye says he's indifferent to me or Rysto, and pushes sach lynch. If I follow, scum win with the mislynch. But sach says he's sure Hawkeye is Town. Both meta-arguments are wrong.
2) Rysto and sach. Hawkeye is right; sach is lying and bluffing by voting Rysto.
3) sach and Hawkeye. Scum are using a tricky bluff. They can afford to sacrifice one of their own and still keep us in lynch-or-lose.

Faith could be scum who's never killed. We've thought it's unlikely faith is scum because of the game setup. But here we are at double lynch or lose. Hal having knowledge of a scum's Dossier might have been a counter-balance to the number of scum. Got to consider it at this point.

4) Hawkeye and Faith. Hawkeye is trying to mislynch sach, while sach is wrong about Hawkeye.
5) Rysto and Faith. sach is correct. Hawkeye is truthful about his own Towniness, but by assuming faith is also, is going wrong with voting sach. Both meta-arguments are right.
6) sach and Faith. Hawkeye is half right; sach is lying.

I'm tempted by Case 5 (scummy Rysto and Faith) at this point. If we're going to meta-game: because a mod-kill of a Town Faith at this point would end the game, the fact we're still playing implies he's not. Less meta-gamely: why would the scum not kill Faith last Night, when they would be able to predict our likely conclusion that faith is Town. Obviously subject to WIFOM, though.

I'm also tempted by Case 2 (scummy Rysto and sach). Hawkeye has been giving me a pro-Town vibe for most of the game. Too bad I can't trust my gut instincts more.

I think my best place to vote is for Rysto. I won't place it their yet, in case I'm wrong.

Comments to each of you:
Rysto: please make a case for/against someone.
sach and Hawkeye: Your meta-arguments may be right, but please reconsider your assessments of faith.
Faith: if you're Town, we really need some input from you. If nothing else, put a vote on whoever you think is most scummy. If you're scum, I guess you can do whatever you like. :p

Final comment: I hate two things in Mafia games: restrictions on posts, and meta-arguments. Both suck the fun out. :(

[Hawkeyeop]

Pleo,

Faith could not be a scum who hasn't killed. There are only 2 killers left. We have had two different killers the last 2 nights. So both remaining scum have killed. It is possible that Faith killed and we haven't figured out the right trait, but it is not possible that Faith is both scum and hasn't killed.

[Pleonast]

Faith could not be a scum who hasn't killed. There are only 2 killers left. We have had two different killers the last 2 nights. So both remaining scum have killed. It is possible that Faith killed and we haven't figured out the right trait, but it is not possible that Faith is both scum and hasn't killed.How do we know that?

[Hawkeyeop]

How do we know that?

How do we know what? If the killer was the same Brewha would of told us.

[Rysto]

What can I say? Guys, I wish that I could say that I am scum. I wish that I could tell you all that I've been leading you all down the primrose path. I wish that I could say that I scammed you all into wasting your last two mislynches. I wish that I could say all of those things because the only alternative to me being brilliant scum is me being a dumb-ass townie.

Unfortunately for my ego, an examination of the body of my work suggests the latter. Take M1: Werewolf. I did vote for Menocchio, the Alpha Wolf, Day One and was night-killed Night One. Convinced of my own brilliance, I emailed RT, the mod:

No real point to this email other than I want to be able to prove that I knew this:

Wanderers, DarkSide and Richard Parker are the Werewolves.

dnooman is the Seer.

The Late, Lamented Rysto

I quickly got a reply:
Promise you won't tell anyone?

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong. Sorry! :D

At which point I immediately formed the theory that JSexton must be a Werewolf. My comments in the forbidden (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8275558&postcount=19) thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8359673&postcount=292) are along the same lines, and just as bad.


Then there was M2, in which I put in what was without a doubt my worst ever single-Day performance. That was Day 2, during which I led bandwagons against both chrisk, the Doctor, and Blaster Master, the Vigilante. I had this crazy theory that chrisk and the rest of the Mafia were using "trust/mistrust" lists to sniff out Detectives. The detective was killed Night One, and I leapt in head-first. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8414145&postcount=589) I scarcely need tell you that every single conclusion that I drew in that post was wrong: everyone that I accused was Town, the mafia did not kill CaerieD and they had no idea she was the Detective. I don't remember much else from that game besides the Autolycus lynch(the less said about that the better), but I certainly remember this exchange (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8579050&postcount=540) from the forbidden thread. To the end I was posting wild, completely inaccurate theories.

I didn't play again until Pleonast's Conspiracy game. As a witch I urged that the three of us act extremely cautiously; I quickly managed to convince the Town that I was scum and the Vampire that I was a witch, and died Night Two. My insistence that there must be a Vigilante in the game did not help me, and once again I was totally wrong. The only really crazy theory I came up with(besides being utterly paranoid that the witch's board was being watched by scum), was that I thought that the scum were pushing the mass-claim idea on Day One: that theory was quickly put to rest when Hockey Monkey was investigated as Town.

So what's the point of this self-flagellation? I'm trying to demonstrate that my actions over the past 3 days are completely in character for myself as town, and that it's hardly unusual for my theories to totally backfire. I can't say that much, if anything, that I've done in this game has ended up helping the town, but I really don't want to top the last three days off by being the losing mis-lynch. I have done my best to build up cases and present them to the Town, and I feel like I've been alone in that. I think that the scum have been quite content to ride my coattails and let me do all of the hard work for them(I'm tempted at this point to joke, "Don't you townies wish that you hadn't prodded me into participating more?").

I don't know what to think about any of you. I'm not going to assume that faithfool is Town until it's proven, but as I said earlier, she could easily end up confirmed Town toMorrow so we should lay off her toDay. I was going to say that if Pleonast has managed to manipulate his post analysis method into allowing him to vote for townies he's a genius, but I did just say that I thought that the scum were letting me do the leading, so maybe he's just been throwing out any old vote and letting people follow my bandwagons instead. On second thought, Pleo's been voting like that since long before I stopped lurking, so that seems unlikely. My original analysis of why Hawkeyeop was scum was obviously completely flawed, so I'm back to square one with him. As to sach? I have some vague suspicions, but I need to re-read and see if there's anything that backs them up.

Maybe I should look for who I think is towniest and vote for them? Can't work worse than my current method...

[Pleonast]

How do we know what? If the killer was the same Brewha would of told us.Hmm, good point. But aren't these death posts munged by the nefarious mods? Maybe something critical was taken out. (Or, Mafia gods forfend, brewha might have forgotten!)

I guess I'm leaning towards Faith as Town, but I don't want to throw the game because I was too eager to jump to certainty.

Rysto, I feel what you mean. If I've learned anything from these Mafia games, it's that I'm a horrible judge of disguised motives. If you're Town, we can't expect anything more than your best shot.

I'll be taking a trip over the long weekend (to San Diego, SoCal's better half), so don't expect much from me until Tuesday. (Another reason not to vote yet, I won't be able to react quickly.)

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm going to assume that hawkeyeops posts in this game constitute a sufficient confession (Sorry DBI).

Liar! Oh right, Nevermind.

[Rysto]

A quick thought: Day 5 could do with some looking at, again. The Diomedes vote saved Hazel. I have a really hard time believing that there were no scum on that bandwagon other than Hazel. If that's true, either Hawkeyeop or sachertorte must be scum(or me, of course, but I exclude myself from consideration for the obvious reasons). I'm leaning towards sachertorte at this point, but that's by no means definitive.

On the other hand, I have a hard time believing that all three scum would pile onto Dio. Pleo voted for Hazel. In fact, Pleonast led the charge against Hazel. He gets major townie points for that: at the time we had 5 lynches to catch 3 scum. The difference between needing to catch 3 scum in 4 lynches and 2 scum in four lynches is huge.

faithfool, on the other hand, voted for brewha and didn't switch onto any of our traditional last-minute bandwagons. God, I wish we could decode that clue and clear her for good. I have actually had a thought on that: we know that the traits were taken from "two truths and a lie" and the "controversial opinions" thread. If we could find a potential trait in either thread that matches the clue, we could definitively clear faithfool.

Although now that I'm thinking about this more, that's not worth it. ToDay we must lynch scum. If we kill last Night's killer, then faithfool is definitively cleared. If we kill the third killer, then we get a new clue toMorrow that we can decode to clear or implicate faithfool. I had it right earlier toDay: we I need to stop worrying about faithfool toDay.

sachertorte and Hawkeyeop. That's where I'll be focussing my attentions tomorrow(well, actually today, but I've always said that tomorrow doesn't start until I get some sleep or the sun comes up).

[Rysto]

My plans are finalized: I will be leaving early Wednesday afternoon; probably a couple of hours before the deadline.

Time for the re-read.

[Rysto]

I've been mostly poo-poo'ing dossier analysis to this point. So what have I found myself doing tonight? Dossier analysis. But I think that I'm on to something here. I'm about to post all of the traits in the order that they were claimed. Green traits are traits that we know are real traits: public traits, traits claimed by townies, and faithfool's traits. Underneath each trait is the order in which the traits were claimed. Confirmed townies are in blue and confirmed scum are in red. There are also three traits coloured purple: these are traits originally brought up by scum or unknowns that were subsequently confirmed as real traits. Ok, here we go:

I was a trombone soloist in college.
(public), Cookies

I've travelled with royalty in torn T-shirt and jeans.
(public), Story, zuma

I graduated from college over 9 years after enrolling, and I was nearly expelled twice.
(public), HM

I have walked along the shore of the Bay of Pigs.
(public), zuma

I believe farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.
(public), Freudian, Rysto

While Jay Leno was doing a stand-up show I attended, he recognized me as someone who had previously seen him perform and spoken briefly with him.
(public), Dio

I've climbed to the top chamber of Cheops.
(public), sachertorte

I wear a size 7 shoe.
(public), Rysto, Hazel, Kat

One of my high school classmates was killed in the attack on the USS Stark.
(public), Santo Rugger

I believe the Honda Element is a good-looking car.
(public), faithfool, MHaye, OAOW

I enjoy practicing the cello
(public), ShadowFacts, faithfool, MHaye

I believe that zombies are inherently funny.
(public), MHaye, Santo Rugger

I played piano with Sly Stone in a Holiday Inn restaurant.
(public), Kat, MHaye

I had my last cat, Clawdia, professionally preserved and she sits in my bedroom.
(public), Pleonast, Dio

I once had sex in front of the Washington Monument.
(public), OAOW, Kat

I am scared of moths.
(public), brewha, Pleonast

I own an authentic 1920s lady's flapper outfit.
(public), Hazel, Story

I have performed an exorcism.
(public), Hawkeyeop, Santo Rugger, faithfool, brewha

I have a near phobia of octopi.
(public), Hal

I believe that cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.
Santo Rugger, Rysto, Hal

I sat next to Robert Plant at Fat Tuesdays.
Santo Rugger, Hal

I have eaten bull testicles more than once.
Santo Rugger

I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles.
Pleonast, MHaye

I've wandered and built on an old, live Soviet bomb dump.
Pleonast

My mother was a former NFL cheerleader.
Pleonast

I was once bitten by a wild animal while visiting Dollywood.
Pleonast, Freudian

I have had a conversation with Laurence Fishburne
Dio

I provided a line in a song that became a top 20 hit for the band Traffic.
Dio, faithfool, Kat

I've been bitten by a tiger.
Dio

I have had a conversation with Michael Chiklis.
Dio, OAOW, Freudian

I got an autograph from Billy Crystal on top of the World Trade Center.
HM, sachertorte

I'm in favour of making mandatory both organ donation and the use of human corpses as a source of meat.
HM

I once drove a VW Bug through the front door of a 7/11.
HM, OAOW

I have gone to Disney World 3 times and Disneyland at least 5 times
HM, sachertorte, Hal

I have held 5 American Bald Eagles.
HM

My great-great-grandfather was a duke in Sicily.
zuma, Hazel

I believe that aliens are stealing my socks.
zuma

I believe that the Apollo moon landings were filmed in Hollywood.
zuma, Cookies, ShadowFacts

I have memorized the entire \"D\" section of the dictionary.
zuma

I have been shot in the head with a muzzleloading .45 caliber pistol and in leg with a bow and arrow.
faithfool

I voted for a boy for prom queen.
faithfool

I was in a biker movie.
Rysto, Cookies, Hawkeyeop

I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.
Rysto

I started a forest fire by playing with matches.
Rysto, brewha

I worked as a professional audio engineer for three years.
Hazel

I can say 'hello' and 'thank you' in nine languages.
Hazel, brewha, OAOW

I watched as over 30 people jumped out of an airborne aircraft.
Hazel, sachertorte

I was a trombone soloist in college.
brewha

I've bowled two perfect 300 games.
brewha, Kat, Hawkeyeop

I am the funniest person alive.
Story

I have performed on stage at Branson, MO.
Story, Cookies, Hal

I've been trodden on by an elephant.
Story

I'm not fully convinced that Kurt Cobain committed suicide.
Story

I believe that corporations and the wealthy are no longer sufficiently taxed.
Cookies

I believe that spending years building kids' self-esteem does more harm than good, in the long run.
Cookies, ShadowFacts

I have met Chuck Norris
MHaye

I've eaten grilled cow udder more than once.
OAOW, sachertorte

I once met Cliff Burton from Metallica before he died.
ShadowFacts

I have a photo of myself with Dick Clark
ShadowFacts

I went trekking after gorillas in The Impenetrable Forest.
ShadowFacts

I have been an assistant on an archaeological dig in the ancient Malian capital of Djenne.
Freudian

I've been a model appearing on the cover of a nationwide catalog.
Freudian, Hawkeyeop, sachertorte

I interviewed Pete Townshend via email, and he posted it on his website.
Kat

I've been on the cover of a Chicago area phone book.
Hawkeyeop

I speak Swahili.
Hawkeyeop

I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to be as miserable as straight couples. If they want to get married, let them.
Hal


I think that this makes it clear what the scum did for their dossiers. They copied some traits that already existed and made up some new ones from the two threads. The "hello" and "cow udder" traits give me a bit of pause, but the overall pattern is just too clear. faithfool had a truthful dossier when we know that most of the scum were lying, so I trust her. Pleonast introduced two real traits; his dossier looks clean. I also introduced two real traits. sachertorte and Hawkeyeop, you share some very suspicious traits with scum. Any comment?

[Rysto]

I was a trombone soloist in college.
(public), Cookies

(snip)

I was a trombone soloist in college.
brewha
I made a small boo-boo here.

[Rysto]

Motherfucker! I made a huge boo-boo in constructing that: sachertorte revealed before Freudian Slit. I never would have caught the mistake had I not seen Hawk say way back in Day 5 that Freudian had no first traits. I know exactly how I made the mistake: I missed sachertorte's dossier reveal on my first go-through and had to go back at the last minute and fill his traits in. I must have forgotten to ensure that I got the order right. Here's a corrected version. God, I hope that there aren't any other errors in this. Analysis of what this change means is forthcoming; I'm still working my way through a re-read and I'll put all of my analysis together in one post when I'm done.

I was a trombone soloist in college.
(public), Cookies

I've travelled with royalty in torn T-shirt and jeans.
(public), Story, zuma

I graduated from college over 9 years after enrolling, and I was nearly expelled twice.
(public), HM

I have walked along the shore of the Bay of Pigs.
(public), zuma

I believe farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.
(public), Freudian, Rysto

While Jay Leno was doing a stand-up show I attended, he recognized me as someone who had previously seen him perform and spoken briefly with him.
(public), Dio

I've climbed to the top chamber of Cheops.
(public), sachertorte

I wear a size 7 shoe.
(public), Rysto, Hazel, Kat

One of my high school classmates was killed in the attack on the USS Stark.
(public), Santo Rugger

I believe the Honda Element is a good-looking car.
(public), faithfool, MHaye, OAOW

I enjoy practicing the cello
(public), ShadowFacts, faithfool, MHaye

I believe that zombies are inherently funny.
(public), MHaye, Santo Rugger

I played piano with Sly Stone in a Holiday Inn restaurant.
(public), Kat, MHaye

I had my last cat, Clawdia, professionally preserved and she sits in my bedroom.
(public), Pleonast, Dio

I once had sex in front of the Washington Monument.
(public), OAOW, Kat

I am scared of moths.
(public), brewha, Pleonast

I own an authentic 1920s lady's flapper outfit.
(public), Hazel, Story

I have performed an exorcism.
(public), Hawkeyeop, Santo Rugger, faithfool, brewha

I have a near phobia of octopi.
(public), Hal

I believe that cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.
Santo Rugger, Rysto, Hal

I sat next to Robert Plant at Fat Tuesdays.
Santo Rugger, Hal

I have eaten bull testicles more than once.
Santo Rugger

I have handled and fed a lot of snakes, alligators and crocodiles.
Pleonast, MHaye

I've wandered and built on an old, live Soviet bomb dump.
Pleonast

My mother was a former NFL cheerleader.
Pleonast

I was once bitten by a wild animal while visiting Dollywood.
Pleonast, Freudian

I have had a conversation with Laurence Fishburne
Dio

I provided a line in a song that became a top 20 hit for the band Traffic.
Dio, faithfool, Kat

I've been bitten by a tiger.
Dio

I have had a conversation with Michael Chiklis.
Dio, OAOW, Freudian

I got an autograph from Billy Crystal on top of the World Trade Center.
HM, sachertorte

I'm in favour of making mandatory both organ donation and the use of human corpses as a source of meat.
HM

I once drove a VW Bug through the front door of a 7/11.
HM, OAOW

I have gone to Disney World 3 times and Disneyland at least 5 times
HM, sachertorte, Hal

I have held 5 American Bald Eagles.
HM

My great-great-grandfather was a duke in Sicily.
zuma, Hazel

I believe that aliens are stealing my socks.
zuma

I believe that the Apollo moon landings were filmed in Hollywood.
zuma, Cookies, ShadowFacts

I have memorized the entire \"D\" section of the dictionary.
zuma

I have been shot in the head with a muzzleloading .45 caliber pistol and in leg with a bow and arrow.
faithfool

I voted for a boy for prom queen.
faithfool

I was in a biker movie.
Rysto, Cookies, Hawkeyeop

I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.
Rysto

I started a forest fire by playing with matches.
Rysto, brewha

I worked as a professional audio engineer for three years.
Hazel

I can say 'hello' and 'thank you' in nine languages.
Hazel, brewha, OAOW

I watched as over 30 people jumped out of an airborne aircraft.
Hazel, sachertorte

I was a trombone soloist in college.
brewha

I've bowled two perfect 300 games.
brewha, Kat, Hawkeyeop

I am the funniest person alive.
Story

I have performed on stage at Branson, MO.
Story, Cookies, Hal

I've been trodden on by an elephant.
Story

I'm not fully convinced that Kurt Cobain committed suicide.
Story

I believe that corporations and the wealthy are no longer sufficiently taxed.
Cookies

I believe that spending years building kids' self-esteem does more harm than good, in the long run.
Cookies, ShadowFacts

I have met Chuck Norris
MHaye

I've eaten grilled cow udder more than once.
OAOW, sachertorte

I've been a model appearing on the cover of a nationwide catalog.
sachertorte, Freudian, Hawkeyeop

I once met Cliff Burton from Metallica before he died.
ShadowFacts

I have a photo of myself with Dick Clark
ShadowFacts

I went trekking after gorillas in The Impenetrable Forest.
ShadowFacts

I have been an assistant on an archaeological dig in the ancient Malian capital of Djenne.
Freudian

I interviewed Pete Townshend via email, and he posted it on his website.
Kat

I've been on the cover of a Chicago area phone book.
Hawkeyeop

I speak Swahili.
Hawkeyeop

I believe that homosexuals should be allowed to be as miserable as straight couples. If they want to get married, let them.
Hal

[Rysto]

I'm not going to focus on my theory about the dossiers for now. sachertorte revealing first isn't fatal to the theory and I still think that I'm right, but it is reasonable that Freudian could have stolen the model trait. I have some other things against sach, and if he turns out to be scum then I will come back to this and take a long, hard look at Hawkeyeop.

My re-read still hasn't yielded all that much. At this point that's making me suspicious as hell. This is what -- Day 8? -- and I still don't have a read on sachertorte? Does anyone? I don't like that at all. In 8 Days sach should have participated enough to give us some kind of read on him. That fact that I just don't have a clue suggests to me that he's been intentionally under the radar for the entire game. The only case of any significance that he's ever set out was his case against brewha -- and not only has he turned out to be wrong on brewha, one thing in that case stands out to me (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9357780&postcount=971):
The thing I first questioned brewha about was why he accused zuma but did not suspect Hockey Monkey when brewha should have also not be able to match one of Hockey Monkey's traits to source #1.
brewha responded that he saw Hockey Monkey's traits in the "other thread."
The problem is, that's not what brewha said (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9295767&postcount=596):
I found some of Hockey Monkey's traits on the other thread. I found none of Zuma's. As the day wore on, I found other people posting the same traits as Zumaand even found some of Zuma's traits on the other thread.
Now, I think that we can all agree that there is a huge difference between "I found some of HM's traits in the other thread, but none of zuma's" and "I found HM's traits in the other thread." This mischaracterization of brewha's words, especially given that brewha has indeed turned out to be Town, looks very bad on sachertorte. sach looks an awful lot like scum trying to force a brewha lynch through.

The other thing that jumped out to me was this post by storytellter (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9357158&postcount=968). The punchline:

How many times in the 20 pages we've had so far do you suppose sachertorte has argued with some sort of dossier-related theorizing on the grounds that lying scum would alter the statistics? But this time, in developing his own theory, he didn't consider that possibility? That seems... unusual.

Unless.

If sach is scum, then he knows that two matching traits is actually rare because he knows the true contents of all the dossiers. The statement above would have seemed innocuous to him making it, particularly if - and I've been wondering about this - the scum have lied not at all or relatively little about their dossiers. That would explain: (1) why sach has emphasized the idea that "scum will lie" the whole game long; and (2) why he assumed Hockey Monkey's spreadsheet would be identical to the true dossier composition for the purposes of analysis.
Given the information we've acquired since, we must conclude that the scum have in fact lied on their dossiers. However, that does not change the core of storyteller's argument for me: after going on and on about scum will lie and that we can't trust the private data, sachertorte goes off and makes an argument that trusts the private data. This inconsistency bugs the hell out of me.

[Rysto]

I forgot to discuss my vote today. Unless somebody posts a really compelling case(and the likelihood of even seeing a case seems to be approaching zero), my vote will be for sachertorte. Given that we have no margin for error, I am not going to place that vote now, but I will before the deadline.

Pleonast, faithfool, here's to hoping that I'm going to hear from you both toDay.

[Hawkeyeop]

While I hate to interrupt Rysto, he seems to have a good conversation with himself going on, I do think it is interesting to look at Brewha's dossier. Brewha's death was an odd one, and not just because I was about 165% convinced he was scum. He was a person who had suspicion upon him, and most recently, voted to lynch a town member. My guess is that Brewha did not share as many dossiers with the scum as the remaining town members do. So, as another point in my defense, I shared 2 traits with Brewha, one of which you know I'm not lying about. Rysto, Pleo, and Faith all share a trait with Brewha, while Sach does not.

[Rysto]

I do think it is interesting to look at Brewha's dossier. Brewha's death was an odd one, and not just because I was about 165% convinced he was scum. He was a person who had suspicion upon him, and most recently, voted to lynch a town member. My guess is that Brewha did not share as many dossiers with the scum as the remaining town members do. So, as another point in my defense, I shared 2 traits with Brewha, one of which you know I'm not lying about. Rysto, Pleo, and Faith all share a trait with Brewha, while Sach does not.
That's a stretch. Trying to figure out why certain players have been killed can be a fruitless exercise. Nobody voted for brewha yesterDay. Perhaps the scum felt that he was the townie who was least likely to garner votes. Perhaps he was correct in his suspicions and the scum wanted to eliminate somebody likely to vote for scum(he called out sachertorte and Hawkeyeop yesterDay, and was vocal about looking at lynching me if HM came up town).

[NAF1138]

bump

Oh, and faith. Once again, I understand if you can't get to a computer. Real life happens and this is just a game, so I don't want you to feel like this is me putting any sort of pressure on you. This is just a warning since I think it will get passed on to you via your laptop sharing friend.

We really will need you to post and vote before the Day ends or you will be mod killed. Time is running out.

I will be back in an hour or so with a vote count and an official time stamp etc.

[Pleonast]

Checking in in a spare moment. I'll try to post something substantial this afternoon.

When does the Day end, exactly?

[Rysto]

It looks like it should be tomorrow at 12:30 PM Eastern, 3:30PM Pacific.

[Hawkeyeop]

Am I wrong in thinking that if Faith doesn't show up today and Naf doesn't kill her that town members should vote to lynch Faith? I don't think she is scum, but, in that scenario, unless one scum decides to vote for the other, we lose. So lynching Faith, at that point, might be the only option we have.

[Rysto]

Uh, that should be 9:30 Pacific, shouldn't it? :smack:

[NAF1138]

Uh, that should be 9:30 Pacific, shouldn't it? :smack:

I was going to comment that you world seems to spin in a different direction then mine. ;)

Ah well, Rysto is right. Tomorrow at 9:20 am pacific time (why not be precise?) the Day will end. There is now less then 22 hours left in the Day.

There are 2 votes out:

1 - Rysto (Sach)
1 - Sach (Hawk)

If no one recieves 3 votes, the Day will end without a lynch and the game will end with a scum win.

Go Team!

[Rysto]

I was going to comment that you world seems to spin in a different direction then mine. ;)
It's a good thing that I keep catching my own mistakes; otherwise you'd all be sure that I'm scum trying to fool you all. :smack:

[sachertorte]

In order to win, all three townies must vote for the same scum. If faithfool is town, as I believe she is, we need her to show up to have any chance of winning. Otherwise we won't be able to get more than two votes on scum.

I know I should be defending myself more vigorously, but in order to win I need to:
1) Be correct about Rysto and Pleonast being the last two remaining scum.
2) Convince hawkeyeop to switch his vote to Rysto (or both switch to Pleonast)
3) Get faithfool to show up and vote with us.

The fact that the best I can expect from faithfool is a drive-by vote (if at all) doesn't make me think my chances of rescuing this game are all that great. Plus, I have no idea how to convince hawkeyeop that I'm Town. The big thing seems to be that zuma was suspicious of me, which I would argue is a good reason for scum to kill zuma so that they can use that as a reason to vote for me.

[Rysto]

The big thing seems to be that zuma was suspicious of me, which I would argue is a good reason for scum to kill zuma so that they can use that as a reason to vote for me.
What? Nobody has made that argument toDay. I think that Hawkeyeop might have mentioned this yesterDay, but IIRC neither Pleonast or I have mentioned zuma at all.

[Pleonast]

I'm stuck this afternoon in a fire drill getting a proposal out the door (don't you hate customers who call and say "I'm going on vacation tomorrow, can you get the full quote and proposal to me by the end of the day?").

But I've skimmed the last two Days. I've been trying to put a Scum label on each of you and see where it fits bit. This is not the part of Mafia that I excel at. I apologize in advance if I've got this wrong.

I think faith and Rysto are the last two Scum.

faith's game has been all over the place. There's a lot of meta-game info about him: an early scum tell of asking about a different board. Secret knowledge about his Dossier shows he told the truth (but maybe some of the scum told the truth). The fact we're still playing despite the fact that a mod-killed Townie faith will end the game. While real life gets in the way, absence definitely favors scum.

Rysto has been playing a good game. But I find his voting to be subtly anti-Town. Basically what a "perfect" Scum player should do.

I'll place my vote tomorrow morning for one of them. I obviously need the support of Hawkeye and sach.

Hawkeye, I don't think sach is scum. I don't have any real defense for my feeling, except my gut instinct of Rysto and faith being more scummy. But your vote for him is not helping us.

sach, I'm not sure why you think I'm scum. Please reconsider your assessment of faith. The meta-game argument that since Hal knew his Dossier, faith must be Town is a weak one to base the results of the game on.

[Rysto]

So either Pleonast is town or both sach and Pleo are scum: if Pleo were scum and sach town, he could easily vote for sach and win the game.

And if both were scum and I were Pleonast, I'd strongly consider voting for sach toDay anyway and then win it toMorrow when I vote to kill off Hawkeyeop.

So I still don't think that Pleonast is scum.


Pleo, I've basically been the only one participating at all toDay. We've seen a couple of dubious meta-gaming arguments from sach and Hawk regarding Hawk's alignment and that's it. I've been the only one re-reading and posting theories and presenting a case. If I were scum it would suit me just fine to see discussion completely die toDay: apathy definitely benefits the scum. The last 3 Days I have done my best to present lengthy cases based on my best analysis.

If you believe that faith and I are scum you must believe that faithfool is last Night's killer. Therefore I must be the killer before that, and successfully lied on my dossier about three of my five private traits. My private traits are:

I believe farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.

This is Freudian's public trait. I can think of arguments for or against stealing a public trait from fellow scum, so I won't make an argument here.

I believe that cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.

Santos Rugger introduced this trait, but didn't give the exact wording. I introduced the exact wording, and it matched the wording from Hal's dossier exactly. However, it is possible that I knew about the source of the dossiers, looked through the entire 13-page Controversial Opinions thread and managed to find the exact trait.

I was in a biker movie.

I introduced this trait, and it was subsequently confirmed as a real trait on Kat's dossier.

I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.

This is unique to me. I might have made it up completely.

I started a forest fire by playing with matches.

I introduced this and it was confirmed as a real trait when it appeared on brewha's dossier.


So, if you believe that I'm scum, you must believe that I stole 3 real traits, including one whose wording had never been seen in this thread before, and got lucky enough that none of my real traits were ever revealed. There is a 3/6 * 2/5 * 1/4 = 5% chance of that happening.

[Pleonast]

I have to admit you're playing the most pro-Town today, Rysto. And, I'm close to switching my scum list to sach instead of you. What's holding me back is the niggling doubt that you're doing to intentionally be pro-Town. Your insistence of my Towniness doesn't help, either.

But I'm willing to be persuaded. I'd like to hear more from sach and especially Hawkeye.

I guess at this point, I'm most willing to vote for faith, but I'm not sure if we can get agreement on that.

Just to clear where I stand:
Most willing to vote for: faith
Can be persuaded to vote for: Rysto, sach
Unlikely to vote for: Hawkeye

I will busy tomorrow morning and probably won't have time for an extended discussion. I'll definitely put in a vote, though.

[Rysto]

Your insistence of my Towniness doesn't help, either.
Here's why I believe that you are Town:
-Your dossier looks real. You revealed one trait subsequently turned up on a confirmed townie's dossier. You also revealed first.

-From Day Six on you and zuma have worked so hard to encourage discussion among us Townies. That's why I trusted zuma and that's why I began to trust you on Day Six.

-I have not completed it but I have been working on a case against Hawkeyeop. If I believe that sach is scum and I believe that Hawk is scum then by elimination I must believe that you are town.

[Hawkeyeop]

I have to admit you're playing the most pro-Town today, Rysto. And, I'm close to switching my scum list to sach instead of you. What's holding me back is the niggling doubt that you're doing to intentionally be pro-Town. Your insistence of my Towniness doesn't help, either.

But I'm willing to be persuaded. I'd like to hear more from sach and especially Hawkeye.

I guess at this point, I'm most willing to vote for faith, but I'm not sure if we can get agreement on that.

Just to clear where I stand:
Most willing to vote for: faith
Can be persuaded to vote for: Rysto, sach
Unlikely to vote for: Hawkeye

I will busy tomorrow morning and probably won't have time for an extended discussion. I'll definitely put in a vote, though.

If Faith doesn't show up I'll vote for her, since I believe it is our only chance. But I don't believe she is scum, which is why I have trouble believing that both you and Sach are town. My main reasoning for thinking Faith is town are Hal having her dossier and the last two dossier reveals not seeming to match any trait of her's. I'll be on tomorrow with more thoughts

[Pleonast]

Ha, the board is up again. Two hours until the end of the Day?

I want to get a vote in:
Vote faithfool

I can be convinced to switch to Rysto or sach.

[Hawkeyeop]

So either Pleonast is town or both sach and Pleo are scum: if Pleo were scum and sach town, he could easily vote for sach and win the game.

And if both were scum and I were Pleonast, I'd strongly consider voting for sach toDay anyway and then win it toMorrow when I vote to kill off Hawkeyeop.

So I still don't think that Pleonast is scum.


Pleo, I've basically been the only one participating at all toDay. We've seen a couple of dubious meta-gaming arguments from sach and Hawk regarding Hawk's alignment and that's it. I've been the only one re-reading and posting theories and presenting a case. If I were scum it would suit me just fine to see discussion completely die toDay: apathy definitely benefits the scum. The last 3 Days I have done my best to present lengthy cases based on my best analysis.

If you believe that faith and I are scum you must believe that faithfool is last Night's killer. Therefore I must be the killer before that, and successfully lied on my dossier about three of my five private traits. My private traits are:

I believe farts are really funny. People only pretend to not think they are.

This is Freudian's public trait. I can think of arguments for or against stealing a public trait from fellow scum, so I won't make an argument here.

I believe that cruelty makes foie gras all the more tasty.

Santos Rugger introduced this trait, but didn't give the exact wording. I introduced the exact wording, and it matched the wording from Hal's dossier exactly. However, it is possible that I knew about the source of the dossiers, looked through the entire 13-page Controversial Opinions thread and managed to find the exact trait.

I was in a biker movie.

I introduced this trait, and it was subsequently confirmed as a real trait on Kat's dossier.

I believe that the world would be a much better place if about 25% of the population were taken out back and shot.

This is unique to me. I might have made it up completely.

I started a forest fire by playing with matches.

I introduced this and it was confirmed as a real trait when it appeared on brewha's dossier.


So, if you believe that I'm scum, you must believe that I stole 3 real traits, including one whose wording had never been seen in this thread before, and got lucky enough that none of my real traits were ever revealed. There is a 3/6 * 2/5 * 1/4 = 5% chance of that happening.

Now that the scum's plot to down the message board has failed, back to work. I don't think you being scum is as unlikely as you say. You could easily of taken traits from a fellow scum and then revealed them first. Furthermore, both the remaining scum have had only 1 trait revealed, so you only would needed to be lucky once, not three times.

[NAF1138]

90 minutes folks.

[Rysto]

Now that the scum's plot to down the message board has failed, back to work. I don't think you being scum is as unlikely as you say. You could easily of taken traits from a fellow scum and then revealed them first.
Except that, no scum share those traits.

Furthermore, both the remaining scum have had only 1 trait revealed, so you only would needed to be lucky once, not three times.
That's an outright lie! The first killer killed twice. The second killer killed twice. The third killer killed three times, including once after Hazel was lynched(which means that the third killer must still be alive). The fourth killer killed once.

Vote sachertorte

I'm willing to switch to Hawkeyeop. I see no point in lynching faithfool if she's going to be mod-killed anyway, and as I believe that she's Town a vote for her will end the game if I'm right.

[Hawkeyeop]

Except that, no scum share those traits.

No scum revealed those traits. There is a difference.


That's an outright lie! The first killer killed twice. The second killer killed twice. The third killer killed three times, including once after Hazel was lynched(which means that the third killer must still be alive). The fourth killer killed once.

Am I misremembering? I thought the last two killers only revealed once. The person who revealed the Pleo trait revealed other traits? Regardless, I don't believe Faith is scum, so you could be the most recent killer.

[Rysto]

No scum revealed those traits. There is a difference.
If I had thought to do that, I would have thought to do this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9433722&postcount=1431).

[Rysto]

NETA:

[url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452019&postcount=1529]And yes, the killer with the Nuclear Bombs trait was the "icepick-weilding rabbit trainer" who killed Hal and story.

Regardless, I don't believe Faith is scum, so you could be the most recent killer.
You don't believe that faith is scum, but you're willing to vote for her? If that's the case, you should be trying to lynch scum toDay and hope that faithfool doesn't get herself mod-killed.

Well, that's what you'd be doing if you were Town, anyway.

[Hawkeyeop]

If I had thought to do that, I would have thought to do this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9433722&postcount=1431).

Which doesn't mean you didn't do something similar. At any rate, I'm not likely to vote for you, so I'd like to focus on Faith. The way I see it

95% chance Faith is not scum
Faith doesn't vote.
Scums don't vote for each other.
We lose.

5% chance Faith is scum
All three other town members vote for her.
Town still alive.

So I think we need to go for the 5%

[Hawkeyeop]

NETA:

[url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452019&postcount=1529]And yes, the killer with the Nuclear Bombs trait was the "icepick-weilding rabbit trainer" who killed Hal and story.


You don't believe that faith is scum, but you're willing to vote for her? If that's the case, you should be trying to lynch scum toDay and hope that faithfool doesn't get herself mod-killed.

Well, that's what you'd be doing if you were Town, anyway.

If Faith is town, we can't lynch scum without her.

[Rysto]

NETA:

[url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9452019&postcount=1529]And yes, the killer with the Nuclear Bombs trait was the "icepick-weilding rabbit trainer" who killed Hal and story.[/quote]

[Pleonast]

Which doesn't mean you didn't do something similar. At any rate, I'm not likely to vote for you, so I'd like to focus on Faith. The way I see it

95% chance Faith is not scum
Faith doesn't vote.
Scums don't vote for each other.
We lose.

5% chance Faith is scum
All three other town members vote for her.
Town still alive.

So I think we need to go for the 5%I agree, except I think there's much more than a 5% chance faith is scum.

[Hawkeyeop]

And we are back.

NAF,

Can we have an extension since our board time has been rather limited today?


unvote Sach
vote Faithfool

[Rysto]

I'm not switching my vote. If she doesn't show up, she gets mod-killed. If she does show up, we have a chance at lynching scum.

There's no reason to lynch faithfool toDay.

[Rysto]

Oh, and remember that I'll soon be leaving, so an extension won't do us a heck of a lot of good.

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm not switching my vote. If she doesn't show up, she gets mod-killed. If she does show up, we have a chance at lynching scum.

There's no reason to lynch faithfool toDay.

She won't get modkilled until after the day ends (I'm assuming). So we will lose with a no lynch before she would be modkilled. If we lynch her, we at least have a mathematical chance.

[Rysto]

That doesn't make any sense. The Town doesn't lose until another townie is night-killed.

[Rysto]

NAF, can you clarify? If faithfool is scum and is mod-killed, does the Town lose anyway? If yes, then I'll change my vote to faith

[Rysto]

I guess that this is game.

We didn't deserve to win anyway. :(

[faithfool]

Rambling...

I've been trying to get in off and on. Stupidly, my friend said yesterday that he'd read I had another day. Anyway, from what I've briefly read, I'd vote Pleo, if for no other reason than not making any sense. But whoever can respond to me quickest to let me know what I should do since I obviously haven't been able to read much further along. I'm so sorry for my real life shit getting in the way.

I'll attempt to remain around a bit.

[Rysto]

I told you so, Hawkeyeop.

faith, I am voting for sachertorte. He's barely participated, and he's a very good player who has said a couple things that seem very off(he's said that he doesn't trust the private dossier traits, for instance, and then gone and formed a theory based on the private dossier traits).

It's your call. Vote and I'll probably follow you.

[sachertorte]

I don't think it matters. The Day is over.

[NAF1138]

There is an extension. I don't know how long yet. But it will be a minimum of 60 minutes. I will post again soon.

I just need to figure out how long the board was down.

[Rysto]

Eh, we'll get our last minute votes in and then NAF can work out the mess.

[Hawkeyeop]

I don't think it matters. The Day is over.

unvote Faith

Faith, vote for who you want in blue. Pleo isn't on top of my list, but I'll vote with you as well.

[NAF1138]

NAF, can you clarify? If faithfool is scum and is mod-killed, does the Town lose anyway? If yes, then I'll change my vote to faith


If faithfool is scum and is mod killed, that leaves the town with one scum and more then one town. It depends, but not necessarily.

[faithfool]

Okay, since NAF is very generously extending our time, than I will simply remain in place until we decide. Unfortunately, there's no way I can really honestly catch up, so could I just be pointed to best, quickest arguments? That way I can try to make a somewhat informed decision (although apparently I've been all over the place with my voting -- least I think that's what was said).

[Hawkeyeop]

Faith, If you want my opinion I'd say vote Sach.

Naf,

I think it is a moot point now, but I believe the question would be if the mod kill would occur before or after the scum had an opportunity to lynch a town member.

[faithfool]

Nononononono. Don't follow me! Remember, I'm pretty much clueless and you guys have been able to go along as the game unfolds. That bit from Pleo was about all I've been able to digest and other than that, I don't want to spearhead the lynch to vote someone who doesn't deserve it just because their pitch seems silly to me.

So, heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!!

[NAF1138]

Faith, If you want my opinion I'd say vote Sach.

Naf,

I think it is a moot point now, but I believe the question would be if the mod kill would occur before or after the scum had an opportunity to lynch a town member.


It would happen before. If faith votes before 10:20 pacific time then there won't be a mod kill.

[Hawkeyeop]

Okay, since NAF is very generously extending our time, than I will simply remain in place until we decide. Unfortunately, there's no way I can really honestly catch up, so could I just be pointed to best, quickest arguments? That way I can try to make a somewhat informed decision (although apparently I've been all over the place with my voting -- least I think that's what was said).

Don't worry, I've read everything and I'm just as confused. I'm town and I believe you are town, which means, that two of the other players are scum. So for this to work the two of us in addition to the third town member must all vote for the same person. So question is, which two of Rysto, Sach, and Pleo are scum. I believe Sach is one of the scum, and I keep changing my mind on the other two. I'll try to recap for you why you should believe I'm town and why I believe Sach is scum in the next hour or so.

[Pleonast]

faith, if you are Town, read through what everyone else has said, and make your best estimate of who's scum and not. I think Hawkeye is likely Town, and one of sach and Rysto. If I wasn't voting for you, I'd vote for either sach or Rysto, and one of them is your best bet for getting scum.

Of course, if you're scum like I'm guesing you are, then ignore the above. :)

[Hawkeyeop]

Okay, here is my big post where I argued I am town.
Town Defense (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9479518&postcount=1665)

[Rysto]

Here's my case against sachertorte (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9489211&postcount=1681)

Read it and believe what you will. There's not much, but sachertorte is too good of a player to make an obvious slip.

[Hawkeyeop]

Here was my first case against Sach.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9464523&postcount=1569

[Pleonast]

My analysis posts are 1648 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9473098&postcount=1648) and 1669 (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9480921&postcount=1669).

As to why I am Town, well, I think over the course of the game it should be obvious by now. :D I've done my best to look at voting records to ferret out scum. I've encouraged discussion as much as possible. I don't have a perfect record, but that's how it goes when you don't have perfect information.

[Pleonast]

Unvote faithfool

I'm obviously not going to convince anyone else on this ToDay, so I'll withdraw it for discussion Tomorrow. I'll decide between Rysto[/b[ and [b]sach for ToDay.

[NAF1138]

10 minutes

[NAF1138]

Sorry, I never posted firmly that 60 minutes was the total of the extension.

But yeah, get your votes back in. I will count up after it all goes down. Anything time stamped before 20 after will count.

[faithfool]

Well, um, I'm trying to grasp all the posts being brought to my attention. However to do so in a 'speed round' setting is a bit difficult. So, I'm going to print out those particular ones to read after this day is over and I'll vote with the consensus. We should do that now, right?

[Hawkeyeop]

Well, um, I'm trying to grasp all the posts being brought to my attention. However to do so in a 'speed round' setting is a bit difficult. So, I'm going to print out those particular ones to read after this day is over and I'll vote with the consensus. We should do that now, right?

Yes, but you do need to vote now.

I say vote Sach and hope for the best

Vote Sach

[Pleonast]

I did last review of arguments, it's time to make a final vote. Again, sorry if this is wrong, but I'm going with
Vote Rysto

Hawkeye, if I'm right, we'll have to go through this again to decide between sach and faith. I guess I'm not confident enough on either to put a vote on either at this point.

[faithfool]

I'm going to do that indeed. But I'm not leading the way until I understand why I'm choosing who I do. You all have gotten to be here, I haven't.

[Pleonast]

I see Hawkeye has put his chip on sach. No time to time to discuss, and we need a lynch no matter what.
vote sach
unvote Rysto

[Rysto]

2 votes on me, 2 votes on sach. Your call, faithfool.

[NAF1138]

Give me a minute to figure out what happened.

[Hawkeyeop]

I'm going to do that indeed. But I'm not leading the way until I understand why I'm choosing who I do. You all have gotten to be here, I haven't.

I understand, but we are a bit short on time. You wouldn't be leading the way. Rysto and I are already there, you just need to follow.

And apparantly Pleo did to on preview, Okay then, now it would be nice if you added your vote to avoid a last minute scum jump off.

[faithfool]

Question then... what happens if there is a stalemate? And please don't anyone scream at me. I want to be able to do this as right I can, if everything ends up riding on me, and I'd like to know the possible outcome if that happens. Thank you.

[faithfool]

Give me a minute to figure out what happened.

WHAT?? I thought you said 60 minutes?


I'm so confused. Told y'all I should've been killed immediately. :(

[Rysto]

The Day is over and sachertorte has been lynched, faithfool.

[Pleonast]

This game can't have a stalemate. If we fail to lynch a scum, the game is over with them winning.

[faithfool]

This will definitely be my only game of Mafia. Again, I apologize to everyone profusely for my lack being able to attend and congratulate everyone else on their ability to play it much better than I could even imagine myself possibly ever doing. :( :(

[NAF1138]

Question then... what happens if there is a stalemate? And please don't anyone scream at me. I want to be able to do this as right I can, if everything ends up riding on me, and I'd like to know the possible outcome if that happens. Thank you.

No screaming. It was an insane ammount of pressure to be put on your shoulders.

But the Day is over. Nothing to be done now.